September 10, 2023 • 35 mins
On tonight's program, Jim and Scott reveal and discuss an explosive lawsuit filed by James Kelly, Tennessee's Deer Management Program Head and Chair of the agency's CWD Deer Management. Kelly alleges Tennessee state officials manipulated data and misled the public about CWD. KDFR institued CWD protocols based on Tennessee's data.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
News Radio eight forty whas welcomes youto Jim Straighter Outdoors, the area's leading
authority on hunting and fishing. JimStraighter Outdoors is brought to you by Mossy
Oak Properties, Hart Reality. Forthe outdoor home of your dreams. Call
Paul Thomas at two seven zero fivetwo four nineteen eighty Linden Animal Clinic,
(00:21):
your Pet's Best Friend, Sportsman's Taxidermy. Visit them at Sportsman's Taxidermy dot Com.
An Rothheating and Cooling, a familyowned business with over one hundred years
experience in the Louisville area. WildlifeHabitat Solutions. Check Jim and his team
on Facebook at Wildlife Habitat Solutions andSMI Marine. Getting your boat back on
(00:41):
the water and no time to joinin on the conversation, call us at
five seven one eighty four eighty fourinside Louisville and one eight hundred four four
four eighty four eighty four outside theMetro. Now sit back and relax and
enjoy the next two hours of JimStraighter Outdoors on News Radio eighty w e
t S. We gain from theWestern Virginia coal mines and the Rocky Mountains
(01:10):
and the West trustine. I gota shotgun or rifle in a full wheel
drive and a country board can survive, Wake the skin of buck and run
a tront line and a country boardcan to survive Country Folks, Canty Fine
(01:32):
Country podcast and survive hundred bucks.Good evening, Everybody. Jim Straight here
with our co host Scott Crowning Buffinsto Jim Straighter Outdoors to seven our leadoff
(01:59):
segments and night is a very explosivelawsuit coming out of the Tennessee with the
Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency with the headof their deer program and their CWD program
has filed a lawsuit against the departmentfor refusing to reveal that their testing data
(02:25):
may have been flawed. According tohim, and when he went upstairs to
his superiors, they suppressed the informationthat some of these reports should be validated
and looked into it. And againthis is according to an article in the
(02:46):
Tennessee Lookout. You can check itout on Tennessee lookout dot com. And
as a result of that, thetwr A officials came in sees his electronic
devices. They seized his computer,his phone, and they did so because
(03:08):
he went to the Commission the citizensboard that oversees the department's activities, much
like our commission board does here inKentucky. And that's when they came in,
seized the stuff, and Firedy.So we're going to report on this
tonight. And honestly, this ison the heels of the program Scott and
(03:30):
I did on August twenty seventh wherewe interviewed doctor dear doctor James Croll about
CWD testing, reporting exactly what CWDis, why it's in many regards,
(03:50):
according to him and others, blownway out of proportion. And in that
program, if you all listen toit, you'll remember I pointed out very
succinctly that I smelled grant money,that I felt like money was driving this
train. Well, I'm gonna readthis entire article to you when we come
(04:11):
back from break and it is anunbelievable eye opener. And here's why it's
of import to the sportsman and outdoorwomen of Kentucky. Kentucky is partnered with
Tennessee in our CWD protocols, andaccording to this biologist, the reporting in
(04:32):
the data was not accurate. Andhe also went on to report that the
only accurate CWD cases in the stateof Tennessee were in the southern portion of
the state of Tennessee, but thecounty adjacent to Kentucky County or county's adjacent
to Kentucky were the reason we wentinto CWD protocol in the state of Kentucky,
(04:59):
where five county are under cwdmandates,which is called the tremendous burden on
folks, not only the hunters,but the folks that sell seed, corn,
to sell mineral, the outfitters,et cetera. This is a very
very serious allegation, so I'm gonnaread from it. But before I go
(05:21):
to break here, I want togive you a quote that came from a
very astute biologist that I know aboutwhy some of these things seemed to occur.
Here's the quote. I tried tofollow the science, but it was
simply not there. I then followedthe money. That's where I found the
(05:42):
science. This very well may proveto be the case. Here the jury
is still out. How her,This thing stinks, and I mean really
stinks, and unfortunately Kentucky and Kentuckysportsmen outdoor women are embroiled in it.
And if this biologists assumptions are correctand his statements are true, which I'll
(06:05):
let you all be the judge.Then there's a whole lot of serious questions
that need to be answered, andScott and I will trot them out for
you, So again, hang onto that. We're also going to talk
tonight about other stuff, the statusof velvet on the deer. We're gonna
talk about fault foot plots, sincewe've had this draft period and a lot
(06:28):
of things are not panning out theway nature should have given us. We're
gonna talk about scouting for deer goingforward. We're gonna talk about squirrel hunting,
dove hunting, duck hunting, allthose things. So stick with us,
and when we've been back, butI won't you remember what I said,
My biologist buddy said happens all toooften when people make excuses. I
(06:51):
tried to follow the science, butit was simply not there. I then
followed the money. That's where Ifound the science. I think you all
appreciate that quote very much as wemass through this, So stick with us.
We'll be back right after this break. This break is presented by SMMI
Marine. They're at eleven four hundredWestport Road. Go see him. Remember
(07:15):
you never get soaked by my friendsat SMI and we're back on Jim Crater
Outdoors and I mentioned in the openI'm gonna read to you directly from an
article in the Tennessee Lookout paper.You can check it out yourself at Tennessee
Lookout dot com. And it's avery explosive article which details something even more
(07:41):
explosive, which is allegations made byTennessee Wildlife Resource Agencies dear biologist and CWD
coordinator. So I'm gonna read thisto you, and I want you to
follow along with me, because Scottand I are going to break this down
after I read you about this report. A state biolog just claims he was
(08:05):
confronted in his home by law enforcementofficers with the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency on
the same day he sent his bossessuperior's evidence that the state was falsifying data
on wildlife diseases. After his cellphone, laptops, and other items were
(08:26):
confiscated, The biolo just said hewas then subjected to hours of questioning by
officers, among them the husband ofhis immediate supervisor, James Kelly, a
wildlife bioo just led to Tennessee WildlifeResource Agency's dear Management program, chaired the
agency CWD Deer Management Standing Team,and served as a wildlife biologist until he
(08:52):
was fired in twenty twenty two.In a whistle lawsuit filed this week,
Kelly alleged state officials manipulated data andmisled the public about the prevalence of chronic
wasting disease, a fatal and infectiousdisease that attacks deer populations. He claims
(09:13):
TWA failed to follow best scientific practicesand its own regulations and diagnosing potentially infected
deer. He also claims TWR choseto forego more expensive and accurate lab testing,
then rewrote its regulations to keep itsdata mistakes from the public before dispatching
(09:37):
law enforcement officers to Kelly's home,interrogating him, and then firing him after
he sought to make his allegations public. The consequences of releasing inaccurate data,
according to the lawsuit, was overinflatedreporting of the prevalence of the disease and
(09:58):
multiple TENNECS counties instead of sixteen countieswith confirmed CW cases reported by the state.
Kelly claims there have only ever beentoo Hardeman and Fayette Counties. The
overreporting of cases leads to economic impactsand counties now avoided by some hunters and
(10:20):
lost hunting fees collected by private propertyowners. It can also inadvertently lead to
the spread of disease. Once acounty has been designated at risk for disease
disease, deer may be transported therefor disposal, posing a potential infection hazard
(10:41):
for otherwise uninfected deer in that county. The lawsuits said Incorrect reporting on disease
prevalence can also increase public costs forstate intervention and monitoring, including added staffing,
testing, harvesting center, payments tohunters and carcass incinerators. According to
(11:05):
twra's most recent disease management plan,it spent more than one point two million
on chronic waste disease in the lastfiscal year end quotes. Incorrectly reporting the
spread of CWD can have an economicimpact on the counties where CWD is reportedly
found, and it can have animpact on a state wildlife agency's use of
(11:30):
funds and resources. Of the lawsuitssaid TWRA has engaged in fraud and mismanagement
of its CWD program. The lawsuitsaid. A spokesman for TWR declined to
offer comment on public litigation Wednesday,but issued a statement that disputed claims that
(11:54):
the state had publicized faulty data.The state's protocols are based on extensive vetting
of the latest peer reviewed and research, the department's statement said. William Caldwell,
Kelly's attorney, declined to comment.Chronic wasting disease is a fatal neurological
(12:16):
disorder with no known care that affectsdeer and elk populations, whose carcasses can
also remain contagious. According to theCDC Centers for Disease Control, there have
been no reported cases of human transmission, which, as you recause I reported
on August of twenty seven. Thedetection of disease, however, requires state
(12:39):
intervention and monitoring to prevent it spread. The agency first detective disease in tender
harvested and fat in Hardeman Counties intwenty eighteen. At that time, the
lawsuits said t w r A followedthe same practice of every other state,
first screening tissues through a process knownas enzyme linked immunal sorbent SA ELI SAA
(13:07):
ELI SA rather for short, thengetting a second more expensive tests using known
as immuno histochemistry i ate SEA testingto confirm positives. SAY eight testing yields
a high number of false positives,the lawsuit said, but as the number
(13:30):
of samples being collected grew, twrA ceased using i ate C testing to
confirm the results. Today, sixteencounties are designated as being positive or at
high risk for disease. Kelly thirtysix and twenty twenty one grew suspicious that
the high number of positive results.He began reviewing lab results and concluded that
(13:54):
too many counties were being added andtoo fast. He shared his concern the
tests were yielding unacted results with othertwr A officials. Officials agreed to send
positive samples for further eight C testing. None of the tests were found positive
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under this testing method, the lawsuitssaid. Lawsuit claims that rather than admit
to hunters, local governments, andwildlife officials that mistakes may have been made
to designate all sixteen counties as positiverisks, the agency created new protocols that
allowed state officials to ignore the resultsof the second test. It also claims
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that new protocols would allow the agencyto keep from admitting mistakes to Kentucky Wildlife
officials who expended resources creating disease responseafter TWRA officials reported a bordering Tennessee County
had a positive test. In otherwords, rather than respond to the discrepancies
(15:05):
and CWD testing results by following itsrules and protocols, the TWRA changed the
rules and protocols to avoid having toadmit mistakes the lawsuit clues. A spokesman
for TWR said one is the agingpersonnel could not comment on pending legislation,
(15:28):
but in a statement released about thestate testing methods, the agency disputed Kelly's
allegations about the validity of their tests. The life of tests used that the
laboratories to detect seed redud prelens hasbeen shown to be effective for early detection
(15:48):
of disease, including animals recently infectedbut not yet showing symptoms. The statement
said for the agency, the resultsare critical for the continued surveillance and monitoring
of CWD. Last season was thefirst since the discovery of CWD in Tennessee.
There was not a spread of thedisease to do kendies, which we
(16:11):
believe is a positive indicator that currentmanagement protocols are working. Frustrated by his
efforts to call attention to the problem, Kelly said he wrote a memo to
the Tennessee Fish and Wildlife Commission,the agency's oversight board. The day Kelly
sent the memo, twr A officersarrived arrived at his home to hand deliver
(16:36):
a letter placing him on leave.The Wildlife law enforcement officers confiscated his cell
phone, keys, and laptops whowas in order to twra A headquarters,
where he was questioned by law enforcementofficers for hours, among them a twr
A law enforcement officer married to Kelly'simmediate supervisor. The lawsuit calls Kelly's treatment
(17:00):
malicious and willful. The lawsuit claimsTWRA violated state laws protecting state employee and
citizen whistlebor complaints. TWRA has notfiled its legal response. Folks, a
(17:23):
logical person that looks at these allegations, if they're true, they're being made
again by the dear management coordinator andthe head of their CWD response team.
If they're true, this is avery very ugly picture, and if you
think about this in a logical manner, he discovers this. The upper level
(17:52):
administrators in TWRA boil him off,decrying to use the test that would have
shown the false positives. He decides, and what I think is an act
of courage, because he cares aboutthe resource. He goes to the commission,
the oversight board, and says,look, here's what I found,
(18:15):
here's the data. I'm the guyoverseeing the program. I'm crying foul.
What happened? They said, Conservationofficers to his home, confiscated all his
electronic devices, which would show morethan likely the trail that's been followed here.
(18:36):
They confiscated that. They put himon the ministry even then they fired
him. Hate saying, folks,but to use the term I often used,
this smells like a fish that's beenrotten in the sun for three days,
particularly this coming back after breaks gotI'll break this down and explain to
you why this has direct and veryorders implications, quite possibly for those of
(19:03):
you in the state of Kentucky.This break is presented by most of the
old properties aren't realty. Paul Thomasis the broker. They're all kind of
wildlife properties underlifting, and they couldfind the dream property that you're looking for.
Check them out. MLP AHRT realtydot Com. We we're back on
(19:33):
Jim Straighter Outdoors and again and beginningof tonight program, we're talking about this
explosive lawsuit that's been filed by theTennessee Wildlife Resource Agencies Deer Management Coordinator and
CWD Deer Management Standing Team Chair.So this wasn't just you know, some
(19:56):
low level biologists. He was actuallythe of their deer management program. And
again I would refer you back,if you didn't hear it, please to
the program that Scott and I didwith doctor James Crow on the twenty seventh
of August. And the reason Iwould like you to do that is it's
kind of like here it is false. Here's the next shoe to drop.
(20:19):
This appears to be where this searchfor monies and grants comes to a situation
like we've got here. Now.There's several things I want to say about
this, and Scott's got a lotof comments as well. But the reason
(20:41):
that I wanted to report on thistonight because I've done some research that goes
beyond the report from Tennessee Lookout dotcom that I just gave you. And
here's what I found out. There'sover seventy million dollars a year in federal
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money is available to these agencies becauseof a bipartisan bill that was passed in
twenty twenty one. Seventy million dollarseach year available from twenty twenty two to
twenty twenty eight, and those fundsgo forward, whether they're all used or
(21:25):
not, as I understand it,to the next turn. So that's the
reason I'm using that quote about thechase for moneies, because I'm gonna say
it again, this is the excusethat comes out. I tried to follow
the science, but it was simplynot there and didn't follow the money.
(21:49):
That's where I found the science.Well that applies to this situation. If
these allegations are true. Why becausethere have to be the type of CWD
protocols that Tennessee and Kentucky has inplace in these counties for them to get
(22:11):
the money. Well, if thisgentleman's allegations are true, and I have
every reason believe they probably are,then there was no following the science.
If his statements are true, andthey were suppressing the data because they didn't
want to admit they made mistakes,that's one side of it, but the
(22:32):
ugliest part of it is it again? It's true, you know, the
judge and jury is still out onthis, but put the lawsuit aside in
its own way. We know inKentucky, for example, which is embroiled
in this because we got five countiesthat are in the trap, if you
(22:55):
will, Withinnessee, because our peopleuse Tennessee's data. Why weren't they asking
the hard questions? So here's thekind of questions I think need to be
asked. Okay, so there's seventymillion dollars annually available these states. Did
(23:15):
Kentucky know that the Tennessee biologists hadqualms about this and reported this to his
supervisors and that he felt it wasbeing suppressed? There's number one right out
of the box. Number two,as we all know, Kentucky to this
(23:37):
date has no CWD president in thestate that we're aware of. I'm sure
I'm accurate about that, because Ihaven't seen a bulletin about it from Kentucky
officials. Why weren't they questioning thatdata, Why weren't they using that extra
informational period, And whether they didor didn't, that really doesn't matter.
(24:02):
The fact of the matter is thosefive counties were named CWD areas potential areas
as a result of Tennessee's data,which according to this report, were false.
A lot of questions here, alot of outfitters, landowners, hunters,
(24:25):
people who sell wildlife products like mineraland feed. They've all had a
horrible economic impact in those five counties. And there's there's just so many aspects
of this that it's just it pointsat a really bad thing in in case
(24:47):
of of economics. What this pointsout to me that there's more economics involved
than there is resource management and concernedfor the sportsman and the industry, and
these decisions the administrators that TOPPED arepotentially taking advantage of huge salaries become self
(25:08):
perpetual entities that no longer serves theneeds of the average sportsmen and outdoor women
in the Commonwealth of Tennessee, andthat just doesn't make sense. Kentucky claims
to be a premier agency that calledthemselves that repeatedly, but according to this
(25:30):
lawsuit, it appears that they mayhave been sucked in to these possible false
data and a conspiracy. Theorists wouldsay, well, while was Kentucky designating
those five counties that were on theborder with Tennessee and CWD zones when A
(25:52):
there's not been any CWD detected thereand B now again according to the lawsuit
file by this individual who was Tennessee'sexpert, who said it was bogus data
to another scenario anyway you want toput it. And I'll tell you what,
folks, there's federal funding involved here. If there was suppression of the
(26:18):
truth, if there was suppression ofthis biologist and his whistleblower suit and status
is valid, which you know,why would he make this up? He
did this before they fired him.This wasn't on the backside, it was
(26:40):
firing. This was on the frontside. I gotta take up for the
guy. He had concerns. Hefelt the tests were not accurate. He
felt that way too many counties werebeing reported, which means additional funding.
What they do. They came inrated his home, took all the information,
(27:00):
took the evidence on his computer andhis phones, called him, man,
harassed him, interrogated in firety.Oh that appears to be factual.
I don't think that could be disputed. As I said to me, it
smells like a fish that's been rottenin the sun for three days. Scott,
I know you have some direct commentsand some insight and what you think
(27:25):
going on because you've been involved inCWD test ting. Yeah, at the
end of the day, if wehave a laboratory that is providing data that's
not accurate, we need to beengaged and we need to be very aggressive
to make sure that we have mademanagement decisions based off of accurate data.
(27:48):
Those five counties Marshall County, Callaway, Graves, Hickman, and Fulton County.
True western Kentucky has had special huntingregulations in place now that they've had
to abide by based off of thedata that come from twr A in regards
to positive cases of deer was CWDand geographically speaking, if the information is
(28:15):
right from the article, the twocounties that have positive CWD are actually on
the Mississippi Tennessee border, not theTennessee Kentucky border and jim This is a
big topic because how people hunt ona Sunday afternoon, or how people hunt
(28:37):
on a three day trip, whetherto make the decision to harvest another deer,
to debone it, and to followthe regulations the taxidermists that they can
or cannot utilize within certain ranges.On a map, ways in which deer
come in and out of the statefrom both resident nonresident hunters, not just
in Kentucky, but other states.All this is impacted, the extra hours
(29:03):
that are conservation officers are working,the extra hours that employees are working to
make sure that we have a goodapproach to handling CWD and trying to prevent
it coming into our state. Well, this is important, and it's important
enough that all of us need toreach out to our commissioners with the Department
(29:29):
and just make sure that they're awareof what's going on. Because I'm hoping
that we're going to make our decisionsbased off of accurate information, and if
we have a lab that is provento give data that's incorrect, then we're
going to have to have a specialmeeting or go back to the drawing board
(29:51):
about how we are going to addressCWD in the state of Kentucky, because
I don't want to see other huntersin counting in the state of Kentucky having
to follow rules and regulations that honestlyshouldn't be applied to because the fact that
they're going off of data that wasincorrect. Well, and you know,
(30:12):
Scott, the obvious another obvious questionhere If that gentleman is correct, and
I've checked this out with several veryprominent biologists that I don't know how to
say it. ELISA test does havea number of problems with it, then
(30:36):
why weren't they used in the othertest? In other words, once that
shouldn't move off of it. I'dlike to know what tests Kentucky was using,
because you know what they should havebeen using NIGHTC testing methodology if there's
any cases, but there's never evenbeen any cases in Kentucky. It's kind
(31:00):
of mind boggling when you really startto think about it. Here's another thing,
Scott. According to the timeline whenmoneys became available, it's very curious
that all these Tennessee counties, someof which were adjacent to Kentucky, again,
which allowed Kentucky to get in positionwith these types of moneys. Why
(31:25):
did they let them get the federalmoneys? And when the whistle bore who
was Tennessee's expert, started revealing thedata was not correct, was this the
reason that t w R officials begansuppressing the data. I mean, that's
according to the biologists obviously, Andwhy did they fire and arrest him?
(31:48):
Why did they fire and arrest himfor his revelations. That is very very
telly in my opinions. When whenyou look at what TWR has done.
They were very active in providing informationto all hunters that an incinerator was going
to be put into place in Tennesseefor c w D aspects. I don't
(32:15):
want to be a hunter that's shootingand killing deer and having them incinerated when
nothing's really wrong. Yep. Now, this this is fact. This is
this is one hundred percent fact.We as a hunting community should be harvesting
animals to provide protein on our tables, and if we can't utilize it,
(32:39):
we need to put that protein onsomeone else's table, yes or research,
Yes, sir, I gotta goto break hold your thought, folks.
This break is presented by as MantaMarine. They'll check them out, they'll
take great care. You remember younever get soaked by my friends at SMI
(33:00):
on German Strator outdoor Scott before break. You at a point you wanted to
make here before the needs break.Yeah, it was common knowledge. Back
in January of twenty twenty, uhtwr A dedicated a million dollars to buy
their commission to create an incinerator fordeer in Fayette County and the ethics of
(33:25):
being a hunter. None of uswant to go out here and put an
animal down and not be able toutilize the animal for the meat. But
that's basically what's being done. Whenan animal goes into an incinerator. That
meat is not consumed. You know, they're looking at disposing parts of deer.
(33:45):
And as a hunter, it wouldjust it would really bother me if
I did not consume an animal becausesomeone told me that it was CWD positive,
only to find out years later thatthe lab that was doing the testing
had quite a few errors going on. I mean probability you know, of
(34:06):
deer having CWD, of course it'sgoing to be higher if you've got a
lab that's not given accurate results.I mean, who wants to go to
the doctor and find out that you'vegot something wrong with you and there's nothing
really wrong, no different than adear great point Scott, And that is
the issue here. But the biggeris why were they suppressing that information being
(34:30):
provided to the administration by their headguy, by their old self appointed experts,
the guy who prepared their dear program. Is they're CWD response again,
It just it sticks to heaven andwe'll discuss some other aspects to it as
we go to the second h ofthe program. All right, folks,
(34:53):
this break is presented by BOSSI Propertiespart Realty. Check them out at mp
H A R t LFI dot com
News Radio eight forty whas welcomes youto Jim Straighter Outdoors, the area's leading
authority on hunting and fishing. JimStraighter Outdoors is brought to you by Mossy
Oak Properties, Hart Reality. Forthe outdoor home of your dreams. Call
Paul Thomas at two seven zero fivetwo four nineteen eighty Linden Animal Clinic,
(00:21):
your Pet's Best Friend, Sportsman's Taxidermy. Visit them at Sportsman's Taxidermy dot Com.
An Rothheating and Cooling, a familyowned business with over one hundred years
experience in the Louisville area. WildlifeHabitat Solutions. Check Jim and his team
on Facebook at Wildlife Habitat Solutions andSMI Marine. Getting your boat back on
(00:41):
the water and no time to joinin on the conversation, call us at
five seven one eighty four eighty fourinside Louisville and one eight hundred four four
four eighty four eighty four outside theMetro. Now sit back and relax and
enjoy the next two hours of JimStraighter Outdoors on News Radio eighty w e
t S. We gain from theWestern Virginia coal mines and the Rocky Mountains
(01:10):
and the West trustine. I gota shotgun or rifle in a full wheel
drive and a country board can survive, Wake the skin of buck and run
a tront line and a country boardcan to survive Country Folks, Canty Fine
(01:32):
Country podcast and survive hundred bucks.Good evening, Everybody. Jim Straight here
with our co host Scott Crowning Buffinsto Jim Straighter Outdoors to seven our leadoff
(01:59):
segments and night is a very explosivelawsuit coming out of the Tennessee with the
Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency with the headof their deer program and their CWD program
has filed a lawsuit against the departmentfor refusing to reveal that their testing data
(02:25):
may have been flawed. According tohim, and when he went upstairs to
his superiors, they suppressed the informationthat some of these reports should be validated
and looked into it. And againthis is according to an article in the
(02:46):
Tennessee Lookout. You can check itout on Tennessee lookout dot com. And
as a result of that, thetwr A officials came in sees his electronic
devices. They seized his computer,his phone, and they did so because
(03:08):
he went to the Commission the citizensboard that oversees the department's activities, much
like our commission board does here inKentucky. And that's when they came in,
seized the stuff, and Firedy.So we're going to report on this
tonight. And honestly, this ison the heels of the program Scott and
(03:30):
I did on August twenty seventh wherewe interviewed doctor dear doctor James Croll about
CWD testing, reporting exactly what CWDis, why it's in many regards,
(03:50):
according to him and others, blownway out of proportion. And in that
program, if you all listen toit, you'll remember I pointed out very
succinctly that I smelled grant money,that I felt like money was driving this
train. Well, I'm gonna readthis entire article to you when we come
(04:11):
back from break and it is anunbelievable eye opener. And here's why it's
of import to the sportsman and outdoorwomen of Kentucky. Kentucky is partnered with
Tennessee in our CWD protocols, andaccording to this biologist, the reporting in
(04:32):
the data was not accurate. Andhe also went on to report that the
only accurate CWD cases in the stateof Tennessee were in the southern portion of
the state of Tennessee, but thecounty adjacent to Kentucky County or county's adjacent
to Kentucky were the reason we wentinto CWD protocol in the state of Kentucky,
(04:59):
where five county are under cwdmandates,which is called the tremendous burden on
folks, not only the hunters,but the folks that sell seed, corn,
to sell mineral, the outfitters,et cetera. This is a very
very serious allegation, so I'm gonnaread from it. But before I go
(05:21):
to break here, I want togive you a quote that came from a
very astute biologist that I know aboutwhy some of these things seemed to occur.
Here's the quote. I tried tofollow the science, but it was
simply not there. I then followedthe money. That's where I found the
(05:42):
science. This very well may proveto be the case. Here the jury
is still out. How her,This thing stinks, and I mean really
stinks, and unfortunately Kentucky and Kentuckysportsmen outdoor women are embroiled in it.
And if this biologists assumptions are correctand his statements are true, which I'll
(06:05):
let you all be the judge.Then there's a whole lot of serious questions
that need to be answered, andScott and I will trot them out for
you, So again, hang onto that. We're also going to talk
tonight about other stuff, the statusof velvet on the deer. We're gonna
talk about fault foot plots, sincewe've had this draft period and a lot
(06:28):
of things are not panning out theway nature should have given us. We're
gonna talk about scouting for deer goingforward. We're gonna talk about squirrel hunting,
dove hunting, duck hunting, allthose things. So stick with us,
and when we've been back, butI won't you remember what I said,
My biologist buddy said happens all toooften when people make excuses. I
(06:51):
tried to follow the science, butit was simply not there. I then
followed the money. That's where Ifound the science. I think you all
appreciate that quote very much as wemass through this, So stick with us.
We'll be back right after this break. This break is presented by SMMI
Marine. They're at eleven four hundredWestport Road. Go see him. Remember
(07:15):
you never get soaked by my friendsat SMI and we're back on Jim Crater
Outdoors and I mentioned in the openI'm gonna read to you directly from an
article in the Tennessee Lookout paper.You can check it out yourself at Tennessee
Lookout dot com. And it's avery explosive article which details something even more
(07:41):
explosive, which is allegations made byTennessee Wildlife Resource Agencies dear biologist and CWD
coordinator. So I'm gonna read thisto you, and I want you to
follow along with me, because Scottand I are going to break this down
after I read you about this report. A state biolog just claims he was
(08:05):
confronted in his home by law enforcementofficers with the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency on
the same day he sent his bossessuperior's evidence that the state was falsifying data
on wildlife diseases. After his cellphone, laptops, and other items were
(08:26):
confiscated, The biolo just said hewas then subjected to hours of questioning by
officers, among them the husband ofhis immediate supervisor, James Kelly, a
wildlife bioo just led to Tennessee WildlifeResource Agency's dear Management program, chaired the
agency CWD Deer Management Standing Team,and served as a wildlife biologist until he
(08:52):
was fired in twenty twenty two.In a whistle lawsuit filed this week,
Kelly alleged state officials manipulated data andmisled the public about the prevalence of chronic
wasting disease, a fatal and infectiousdisease that attacks deer populations. He claims
(09:13):
TWA failed to follow best scientific practicesand its own regulations and diagnosing potentially infected
deer. He also claims TWR choseto forego more expensive and accurate lab testing,
then rewrote its regulations to keep itsdata mistakes from the public before dispatching
(09:37):
law enforcement officers to Kelly's home,interrogating him, and then firing him after
he sought to make his allegations public. The consequences of releasing inaccurate data,
according to the lawsuit, was overinflatedreporting of the prevalence of the disease and
(09:58):
multiple TENNECS counties instead of sixteen countieswith confirmed CW cases reported by the state.
Kelly claims there have only ever beentoo Hardeman and Fayette Counties. The
overreporting of cases leads to economic impactsand counties now avoided by some hunters and
(10:20):
lost hunting fees collected by private propertyowners. It can also inadvertently lead to
the spread of disease. Once acounty has been designated at risk for disease
disease, deer may be transported therefor disposal, posing a potential infection hazard
(10:41):
for otherwise uninfected deer in that county. The lawsuits said Incorrect reporting on disease
prevalence can also increase public costs forstate intervention and monitoring, including added staffing,
testing, harvesting center, payments tohunters and carcass incinerators. According to
(11:05):
twra's most recent disease management plan,it spent more than one point two million
on chronic waste disease in the lastfiscal year end quotes. Incorrectly reporting the
spread of CWD can have an economicimpact on the counties where CWD is reportedly
found, and it can have animpact on a state wildlife agency's use of
(11:30):
funds and resources. Of the lawsuitssaid TWRA has engaged in fraud and mismanagement
of its CWD program. The lawsuitsaid. A spokesman for TWR declined to
offer comment on public litigation Wednesday,but issued a statement that disputed claims that
(11:54):
the state had publicized faulty data.The state's protocols are based on extensive vetting
of the latest peer reviewed and research, the department's statement said. William Caldwell,
Kelly's attorney, declined to comment.Chronic wasting disease is a fatal neurological
(12:16):
disorder with no known care that affectsdeer and elk populations, whose carcasses can
also remain contagious. According to theCDC Centers for Disease Control, there have
been no reported cases of human transmission, which, as you recause I reported
on August of twenty seven. Thedetection of disease, however, requires state
(12:39):
intervention and monitoring to prevent it spread. The agency first detective disease in tender
harvested and fat in Hardeman Counties intwenty eighteen. At that time, the
lawsuits said t w r A followedthe same practice of every other state,
first screening tissues through a process knownas enzyme linked immunal sorbent SA ELI SAA
(13:07):
ELI SA rather for short, thengetting a second more expensive tests using known
as immuno histochemistry i ate SEA testingto confirm positives. SAY eight testing yields
a high number of false positives,the lawsuit said, but as the number
(13:30):
of samples being collected grew, twrA ceased using i ate C testing to
confirm the results. Today, sixteencounties are designated as being positive or at
high risk for disease. Kelly thirtysix and twenty twenty one grew suspicious that
the high number of positive results.He began reviewing lab results and concluded that
(13:54):
too many counties were being added andtoo fast. He shared his concern the
tests were yielding unacted results with othertwr A officials. Officials agreed to send
positive samples for further eight C testing. None of the tests were found positive
(14:15):
under this testing method, the lawsuitssaid. Lawsuit claims that rather than admit
to hunters, local governments, andwildlife officials that mistakes may have been made
to designate all sixteen counties as positiverisks, the agency created new protocols that
allowed state officials to ignore the resultsof the second test. It also claims
(14:39):
that new protocols would allow the agencyto keep from admitting mistakes to Kentucky Wildlife
officials who expended resources creating disease responseafter TWRA officials reported a bordering Tennessee County
had a positive test. In otherwords, rather than respond to the discrepancies
(15:05):
and CWD testing results by following itsrules and protocols, the TWRA changed the
rules and protocols to avoid having toadmit mistakes the lawsuit clues. A spokesman
for TWR said one is the agingpersonnel could not comment on pending legislation,
(15:28):
but in a statement released about thestate testing methods, the agency disputed Kelly's
allegations about the validity of their tests. The life of tests used that the
laboratories to detect seed redud prelens hasbeen shown to be effective for early detection
(15:48):
of disease, including animals recently infectedbut not yet showing symptoms. The statement
said for the agency, the resultsare critical for the continued surveillance and monitoring
of CWD. Last season was thefirst since the discovery of CWD in Tennessee.
There was not a spread of thedisease to do kendies, which we
(16:11):
believe is a positive indicator that currentmanagement protocols are working. Frustrated by his
efforts to call attention to the problem, Kelly said he wrote a memo to
the Tennessee Fish and Wildlife Commission,the agency's oversight board. The day Kelly
sent the memo, twr A officersarrived arrived at his home to hand deliver
(16:36):
a letter placing him on leave.The Wildlife law enforcement officers confiscated his cell
phone, keys, and laptops whowas in order to twra A headquarters,
where he was questioned by law enforcementofficers for hours, among them a twr
A law enforcement officer married to Kelly'simmediate supervisor. The lawsuit calls Kelly's treatment
(17:00):
malicious and willful. The lawsuit claimsTWRA violated state laws protecting state employee and
citizen whistlebor complaints. TWRA has notfiled its legal response. Folks, a
(17:23):
logical person that looks at these allegations, if they're true, they're being made
again by the dear management coordinator andthe head of their CWD response team.
If they're true, this is avery very ugly picture, and if you
think about this in a logical manner, he discovers this. The upper level
(17:52):
administrators in TWRA boil him off,decrying to use the test that would have
shown the false positives. He decides, and what I think is an act
of courage, because he cares aboutthe resource. He goes to the commission,
the oversight board, and says,look, here's what I found,
(18:15):
here's the data. I'm the guyoverseeing the program. I'm crying foul.
What happened? They said, Conservationofficers to his home, confiscated all his
electronic devices, which would show morethan likely the trail that's been followed here.
(18:36):
They confiscated that. They put himon the ministry even then they fired
him. Hate saying, folks,but to use the term I often used,
this smells like a fish that's beenrotten in the sun for three days,
particularly this coming back after breaks gotI'll break this down and explain to
you why this has direct and veryorders implications, quite possibly for those of
(19:03):
you in the state of Kentucky.This break is presented by most of the
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Check them out. MLP AHRT realtydot Com. We we're back on
(19:33):
Jim Straighter Outdoors and again and beginningof tonight program, we're talking about this
explosive lawsuit that's been filed by theTennessee Wildlife Resource Agencies Deer Management Coordinator and
CWD Deer Management Standing Team Chair.So this wasn't just you know, some
(19:56):
low level biologists. He was actuallythe of their deer management program. And
again I would refer you back,if you didn't hear it, please to
the program that Scott and I didwith doctor James Crow on the twenty seventh
of August. And the reason Iwould like you to do that is it's
kind of like here it is false. Here's the next shoe to drop.
(20:19):
This appears to be where this searchfor monies and grants comes to a situation
like we've got here. Now.There's several things I want to say about
this, and Scott's got a lotof comments as well. But the reason
(20:41):
that I wanted to report on thistonight because I've done some research that goes
beyond the report from Tennessee Lookout dotcom that I just gave you. And
here's what I found out. There'sover seventy million dollars a year in federal
(21:03):
money is available to these agencies becauseof a bipartisan bill that was passed in
twenty twenty one. Seventy million dollarseach year available from twenty twenty two to
twenty twenty eight, and those fundsgo forward, whether they're all used or
(21:25):
not, as I understand it,to the next turn. So that's the
reason I'm using that quote about thechase for moneies, because I'm gonna say
it again, this is the excusethat comes out. I tried to follow
the science, but it was simplynot there and didn't follow the money.
(21:49):
That's where I found the science.Well that applies to this situation. If
these allegations are true. Why becausethere have to be the type of CWD
protocols that Tennessee and Kentucky has inplace in these counties for them to get
(22:11):
the money. Well, if thisgentleman's allegations are true, and I have
every reason believe they probably are,then there was no following the science.
If his statements are true, andthey were suppressing the data because they didn't
want to admit they made mistakes,that's one side of it, but the
(22:32):
ugliest part of it is it again? It's true, you know, the
judge and jury is still out onthis, but put the lawsuit aside in
its own way. We know inKentucky, for example, which is embroiled
in this because we got five countiesthat are in the trap, if you
(22:55):
will, Withinnessee, because our peopleuse Tennessee's data. Why weren't they asking
the hard questions? So here's thekind of questions I think need to be
asked. Okay, so there's seventymillion dollars annually available these states. Did
(23:15):
Kentucky know that the Tennessee biologists hadqualms about this and reported this to his
supervisors and that he felt it wasbeing suppressed? There's number one right out
of the box. Number two,as we all know, Kentucky to this
(23:37):
date has no CWD president in thestate that we're aware of. I'm sure
I'm accurate about that, because Ihaven't seen a bulletin about it from Kentucky
officials. Why weren't they questioning thatdata, Why weren't they using that extra
informational period, And whether they didor didn't, that really doesn't matter.
(24:02):
The fact of the matter is thosefive counties were named CWD areas potential areas
as a result of Tennessee's data,which according to this report, were false.
A lot of questions here, alot of outfitters, landowners, hunters,
(24:25):
people who sell wildlife products like mineraland feed. They've all had a
horrible economic impact in those five counties. And there's there's just so many aspects
of this that it's just it pointsat a really bad thing in in case
(24:47):
of of economics. What this pointsout to me that there's more economics involved
than there is resource management and concernedfor the sportsman and the industry, and
these decisions the administrators that TOPPED arepotentially taking advantage of huge salaries become self
(25:08):
perpetual entities that no longer serves theneeds of the average sportsmen and outdoor women
in the Commonwealth of Tennessee, andthat just doesn't make sense. Kentucky claims
to be a premier agency that calledthemselves that repeatedly, but according to this
(25:30):
lawsuit, it appears that they mayhave been sucked in to these possible false
data and a conspiracy. Theorists wouldsay, well, while was Kentucky designating
those five counties that were on theborder with Tennessee and CWD zones when A
(25:52):
there's not been any CWD detected thereand B now again according to the lawsuit
file by this individual who was Tennessee'sexpert, who said it was bogus data
to another scenario anyway you want toput it. And I'll tell you what,
folks, there's federal funding involved here. If there was suppression of the
(26:18):
truth, if there was suppression ofthis biologist and his whistleblower suit and status
is valid, which you know,why would he make this up? He
did this before they fired him.This wasn't on the backside, it was
(26:40):
firing. This was on the frontside. I gotta take up for the
guy. He had concerns. Hefelt the tests were not accurate. He
felt that way too many counties werebeing reported, which means additional funding.
What they do. They came inrated his home, took all the information,
(27:00):
took the evidence on his computer andhis phones, called him, man,
harassed him, interrogated in firety.Oh that appears to be factual.
I don't think that could be disputed. As I said to me, it
smells like a fish that's been rottenin the sun for three days. Scott,
I know you have some direct commentsand some insight and what you think
(27:25):
going on because you've been involved inCWD test ting. Yeah, at the
end of the day, if wehave a laboratory that is providing data that's
not accurate, we need to beengaged and we need to be very aggressive
to make sure that we have mademanagement decisions based off of accurate data.
(27:48):
Those five counties Marshall County, Callaway, Graves, Hickman, and Fulton County.
True western Kentucky has had special huntingregulations in place now that they've had
to abide by based off of thedata that come from twr A in regards
to positive cases of deer was CWDand geographically speaking, if the information is
(28:15):
right from the article, the twocounties that have positive CWD are actually on
the Mississippi Tennessee border, not theTennessee Kentucky border and jim This is a
big topic because how people hunt ona Sunday afternoon, or how people hunt
(28:37):
on a three day trip, whetherto make the decision to harvest another deer,
to debone it, and to followthe regulations the taxidermists that they can
or cannot utilize within certain ranges.On a map, ways in which deer
come in and out of the statefrom both resident nonresident hunters, not just
in Kentucky, but other states.All this is impacted, the extra hours
(29:03):
that are conservation officers are working,the extra hours that employees are working to
make sure that we have a goodapproach to handling CWD and trying to prevent
it coming into our state. Well, this is important, and it's important
enough that all of us need toreach out to our commissioners with the Department
(29:29):
and just make sure that they're awareof what's going on. Because I'm hoping
that we're going to make our decisionsbased off of accurate information, and if
we have a lab that is provento give data that's incorrect, then we're
going to have to have a specialmeeting or go back to the drawing board
(29:51):
about how we are going to addressCWD in the state of Kentucky, because
I don't want to see other huntersin counting in the state of Kentucky having
to follow rules and regulations that honestlyshouldn't be applied to because the fact that
they're going off of data that wasincorrect. Well, and you know,
(30:12):
Scott, the obvious another obvious questionhere If that gentleman is correct, and
I've checked this out with several veryprominent biologists that I don't know how to
say it. ELISA test does havea number of problems with it, then
(30:36):
why weren't they used in the othertest? In other words, once that
shouldn't move off of it. I'dlike to know what tests Kentucky was using,
because you know what they should havebeen using NIGHTC testing methodology if there's
any cases, but there's never evenbeen any cases in Kentucky. It's kind
(31:00):
of mind boggling when you really startto think about it. Here's another thing,
Scott. According to the timeline whenmoneys became available, it's very curious
that all these Tennessee counties, someof which were adjacent to Kentucky, again,
which allowed Kentucky to get in positionwith these types of moneys. Why
(31:25):
did they let them get the federalmoneys? And when the whistle bore who
was Tennessee's expert, started revealing thedata was not correct, was this the
reason that t w R officials begansuppressing the data. I mean, that's
according to the biologists obviously, Andwhy did they fire and arrest him?
(31:48):
Why did they fire and arrest himfor his revelations. That is very very
telly in my opinions. When whenyou look at what TWR has done.
They were very active in providing informationto all hunters that an incinerator was going
to be put into place in Tennesseefor c w D aspects. I don't
(32:15):
want to be a hunter that's shootingand killing deer and having them incinerated when
nothing's really wrong. Yep. Now, this this is fact. This is
this is one hundred percent fact.We as a hunting community should be harvesting
animals to provide protein on our tables, and if we can't utilize it,
(32:39):
we need to put that protein onsomeone else's table, yes or research,
Yes, sir, I gotta goto break hold your thought, folks.
This break is presented by as MantaMarine. They'll check them out, they'll
take great care. You remember younever get soaked by my friends at SMI
(33:00):
on German Strator outdoor Scott before break. You at a point you wanted to
make here before the needs break.Yeah, it was common knowledge. Back
in January of twenty twenty, uhtwr A dedicated a million dollars to buy
their commission to create an incinerator fordeer in Fayette County and the ethics of
(33:25):
being a hunter. None of uswant to go out here and put an
animal down and not be able toutilize the animal for the meat. But
that's basically what's being done. Whenan animal goes into an incinerator. That
meat is not consumed. You know, they're looking at disposing parts of deer.
(33:45):
And as a hunter, it wouldjust it would really bother me if
I did not consume an animal becausesomeone told me that it was CWD positive,
only to find out years later thatthe lab that was doing the testing
had quite a few errors going on. I mean probability you know, of
(34:06):
deer having CWD, of course it'sgoing to be higher if you've got a
lab that's not given accurate results.I mean, who wants to go to
the doctor and find out that you'vegot something wrong with you and there's nothing
really wrong, no different than adear great point Scott, And that is
the issue here. But the biggeris why were they suppressing that information being
(34:30):
provided to the administration by their headguy, by their old self appointed experts,
the guy who prepared their dear program. Is they're CWD response again,
It just it sticks to heaven andwe'll discuss some other aspects to it as
we go to the second h ofthe program. All right, folks,
(34:53):
this break is presented by BOSSI Propertiespart Realty. Check them out at mp
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