9-7-25 - Dudley Phelps with Mossy Oak Nativ Nurseries

Tonight's guest was Dudley Phelps with Mossy Oak Nativ Nurseries. Dudley is also the co-host of "The Game Keepers of Mossy Oak" television show and the Game Keepers podcast.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:23):
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(00:44):
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Speaker 2 (01:00):
Good even to everyone demonstrated here with my co host
Scott Groner and God, I know you're as excited as
I am about tonight's guest. He's a gentleman. We both
have known him for many, many years. His name is
Dudley Phelps, and he's with Malfield Native Nurseries, And like

(01:23):
you and I, he really appreciates wildlife adversity. And I
don't mind saying I take a back seat to wildlife
management when I'm talking to this gentleman. I've been doing
it for over forty years, and every time I talk
to him, there's a new twist, a new turn, and
excellent observation. So I can't tell everybody how excited we

(01:44):
already have Dudley on with us.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
The great thing about Dudley is he can help you
no matter what your budget, no matter what size the
property is that you have. And one of the great
things is Dudley's techniques and products benefit in multiple animals,
and that in general just creates a whole lot better
habitat for a whole lot more critters, and it gives

(02:08):
us a better world to live in. Since most of
us are kind of getting faced with this word of sustainability,
Jim and the world's not producing any more acres for
wildlife habitat. But I can tell you what thing Dudley is.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Well, he's an experts expert, no doubt about it. I'm
gonna go ahead and go to break and we'll beating
Dudley up here. This break is presented by SMI Marine.
They're at eleven four hundred Westport Roads, just north of
the Snyder. Go see them. Must take great care of
you and remember you never get soaked by my friends
at SMI and their promise. We're talking tonight with Doudley

(02:44):
Phelps and Dudley's with Mansio Native Nurseries. Dudley, Welcome aboard, buddy.
I've looked forward to this program for a long long
time and glad to have you on with us. Talk
folks a little bit about yourself and your back around
and all the things that you do in your profession.

Speaker 4 (03:06):
Well, first off, I'm glad to be here talking with
you guys. You know, this is my favorite subject and
I assume everybody else's favorite subject. But so I just
decided to, at the age of thirty something, decide to
go back to school, uh and and take you know,

(03:28):
wildlife and forestry classes at Mississippi State. I had grown
up with some family land, and it was it was
more of a timber farm, you know, we grow a
lot of love loly pine down in the south, further south,
and so I was just you know, grew up around that,
grew up hunting and fishing, and uh, just the traditional

(03:52):
you know, business school or whatever just wasn't cut out
for me. And so all of that went well. And
when I moved up to where I am now and
start for Mississippi to go to Mississippi State, I just
started working at Massy Oak about the same time and

(04:14):
was more or less you know, planting seeds and pulling
weeds at the brand new massy Oak Native Nurseries. They
weren't even at the point of where they were selling
plant material yet, but I just kind of came on
as like a student worker and I've been here ever since.
I think I'm about to hit year eighteen. And so

(04:39):
generally what we do we collect a lot of our
own seeds. We you know, do all the different methods
to make them sprout properly, you know, like an acorn
might sprout a lot differently than a plum. And so
we've over time learned how to do all of that,
and we've got a full fledged nursery. We ship plants

(05:02):
pretty much all over the US and they're they're specific
for for wildlife, so uh, we don't we don't have
a lot of you know, like fruits that you would
buy at the grocery store. Uh, it's more you know,
wild stuff. And you know, part part of what I
do is I help people decide what to plant. So

(05:24):
they'll call on the phone or email us and uh
tell me about their goals. You know, were they more
at a deer in Turkey or they want to see
a lot of song birds or uh there, you know,
whatever your goal is. We can sit down and talk
about the soil types and what type of site you have,
you know, whether you're down on the bottom or on

(05:44):
top of the hill, and just help you figure out
what you need to order. And I answer a lot
of just general wildlife habitat management questions as well. That
that's what we're here for. We all also have a
subset of massy oak called Gamekeepers. We've got a quarterly magazine.

(06:08):
Again we talk about stuff you can do outside, everything
from fertilizing your pond the winter, rizing your cabin, to
managing food plots. You know, it's less about hunting and
more about doing all the work. And we also have
a podcast very similar to this show where we talk

(06:29):
about wildlife and forestry topics.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
Well. Deaditely, one of the coolest things about you, in
particular is the time you will take with any individual
that calls the company to help them, as you mentioned, Taylor,
whatever they want to do to what you all can provide,
and that's pretty unusual in today's today's world. I'd like
to kick this thing off with the fact that we

(06:56):
are at fall food plot planning season and just a
general discussion I guess about your thoughts and Scott you
chime in here as well about you know what the
plant and it's time. I guess is what I'm saying.
You know, we're hopefully hitting people right on the button

(07:17):
on getting ready to get ready, or I know some
folks have already planned it. Scott, you've taken advantage of
this rain duty. You want to speak to that.

Speaker 4 (07:28):
Yeah, So earlier we were kind of pregaming on the phone,
talking about what we were wanting to discuss, and Scott
brought up the fact that we've had an incredibly wet
even in Mississippi. We've had an incredibly wet second half
of July. I think even probably even earlier in July

(07:51):
it started, but it was we were on the we
were on the drought map until this rain hit.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
You know.

Speaker 4 (07:57):
That was I was riding around my little piece of
heaven and you know, just seeing wilted leaves on trees
and shrubs and things. But that is it's the exact opposite.
We're at full saturation right now. And you know, traditionally,
when we first started doing food plots, I don't know,

(08:18):
thirty or forty years ago, we mainly focused on cereal
grains and we were following those farming practices. So you know,
if the farmers weren't planting winter weet, then it was
it was too early. We needed to wait until they
were doing it, and that was typically in the fall.
But you know, that goal is to you know, get

(08:40):
some roots in the ground and then those plants thrive
in the spring and then grow a big seedhead to harvest.
We're trying to feed our wildlife during the cool seasons,
so we we really want to get those crops up
sooner than later. And now we've all been experimenting with

(09:02):
different types of crops for wildlife and we've become to
where we're using a lot more clovers, you know, both
annual and perennial and bi annual clovers. But we've also
gotten really into these brassicas, which most of you know
that's the turnip greens, the rapes, the radishes, things like that.

(09:25):
But I mean, they provide so much food value. But
you have to get them in the ground earlier than
we traditionally planted, and you know used to we planted
when those fall patterned rains hit those winter pattern rains.
But if you start early, like in Kentucky, if you've

(09:47):
got the moisture, you can get those things in the
ground August first to fifteenth, even some of your cereal
grains and clovers as well, especially if the moisture is there.
Those brassicas can be over knee height by the time
it starts getting cold, and that is so much food

(10:08):
on the ground. If you were to wait until like
the traditional planting time, which may even be early October, uh,
a lot of those plants aren't going to get very
big before it gets cold. So you know, we're trying
to feed wildlife, and so it's it's odd for a
lot of folks to think about planting this early, but

(10:32):
we're doing it more and more these days, especially on
the you know, the better moisture years.

Speaker 3 (10:39):
Yeah, Dudley, that's so important because it was just several
years ago that we were falling those agriculture practices and
and a lot of these crops that were utilizing in
our annual and perennial food plots, and I want to
focus mostly on annual food plots. They were really cover crops,

(11:00):
and we learned because of our knowledge and spending time
in the field, that diversity was a lot better than
having a monocultural environment. And instead of just planting one
particular crop like a farmer with winter weed or cereal rye,
we realized they were picking and choosing on this stuff.

(11:20):
And I know that a lot of these trials and
tests is what deer prefer, what's best further palate and
where we did pregame a little bit before the show.
What I realized is when I had everything ready to
go the first week of August, and I could work
with my window of opportunity with weather and moisture being

(11:42):
the most important thing because we're going to have the
sole temperature, We're going to have the tempertures to get
fast germination. I realized really quick that even in my
egg production background, that forage in that tonnage per acre
and that brows is really what we were hunt and
when that winter wheat and cereal rye and oats and

(12:04):
brassicas and all the different radishes and our annual and
perennial clovers, when they're popping and they're growing good, those
deer have a whole smorgas board of what they can
capitalize on. And I'm sure you'll agree the thing that
will ruin your management plans quicker than anything when it
comes to forging brows when it is related to food
plots is moisture.

Speaker 4 (12:25):
I'm let's say, you know, we're weekend warriors, so you
know we're not farmers. We can't be there every day.
So and the seed is probably the cheapest component of
all of this when it comes to food plotting, So
it can be tough to swallow for somebody to plant
in August. If you're worried about that, you know, maybe

(12:48):
segment your food plots to the thirds and do a
third of them on that early shift, and once you
see good results come out of that, you're you're gonna
want to do it every year. It's it's it can
be a hard pill to swallow, but it works. When
sometimes it doesn't work, you know, sometimes you do have

(13:09):
a bad year. But the beauty of that is, you know,
the fertilizer and the lime is more than the seed
in the time, and so you can always replant, you know.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
Dudley speak to that in depth because so many people
skimp on the fertilizer and lime, and that's that's what
boosts everything. Can you kind of hammer that home.

Speaker 4 (13:31):
For yeah, you know, and and the soil test is
so important. I know we tend to just over discuss
the whole soil test thing, but it is that important.
If you're gonna you know, a bag of fertilizer, you know,
I'm seeing it over twenty dollars in places, and and

(13:52):
a sol test might call for seven or eight bags
a fertilizer per acre. And so a lot of folks,
you know, they have good intentions, and they have their
work week in and they've got all these fields and
they want to clip them all on that work weekend
and then disk them, you know, have them all dissed up.

(14:14):
Maybe they've got another work weekend to plant. But you
may have twenty or thirty acres of food plots or
openings that you think you have to plant every year.
But if you're not going to follow that soil test
and get the pH right and get the proper fertilizer
in and even be willing to come back and top

(14:35):
dress a little bit of fertilizer, you know, maybe in
late October or something, a lot of those plants, as
soon as it starts getting cold and the soil stays wet,
they become stressed and they start turning purple and yellow,
and then the big cold blast comes through and since
they're so stressed, they can't handle the cold, and then

(14:58):
they just kind of fizzle out. And you probably would
have been better off in some of those areas not
even food plotting it, you know, letting it stay in
thick old field type cover and and with you know,
but to plant fewer food plots and do them right,

(15:21):
as opposed to just filling all your fields up and
not fertilizing them enough, that is probably the way to go,
is to if you can't do it right, do less acreage.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
Absolutely. Dudley here in the next few minutes talk about
what we've all learned the hard way about diversity in
these food plots. In other words, one thing isn't necessarily
the best idea, oh.

Speaker 4 (15:51):
For sure, you know. And and just because a deer
likes to eat something. For example, these radishes, these forage
radishes are kind of the new hot item in the
brafcas gosh, even in that early you know, that early
velvet season, they'll be eating on those radishes. You might

(16:12):
could mix them with some oats, but they like them
almost as much as they like you know, soybeans in
the summertime, and they can eat them out. So yeah,
they're an incredibly palatable plant. The deer love it. But
if it's gone before it gets cold, then it doesn't
have a lot of value, you know, it doesn't add

(16:34):
a lot of value to your property when the deer
really need it. So you can mix it up. You
can plant some radishes, but maybe put some turnips in
there that they're gonna eat later in the winter. So
it's real important to not just give them something that's
incredibly attractive, you know, so you can try to shoot

(16:55):
the deer. You want to have food there, you know,
as far as cool season goes, you want it there
from really late summer all the way until you know
you get that green up in the spring.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yes, sir, it's so important. This is where I'd never
tell them if they ever plighted. Just basket for example,
I love to have cereal grains mixed in with it.
And we'll talk about that some more coming back after
the break. Here. This break is presented about most the
old property. It's heart Realty. Paul Thomas is the broker

(17:31):
and guess what when you purchase properties or sell properties,
either way, they will help you with these wildlife management techniques.
And Dudley Phelps is a phone hallway. All right, folks,
we'll be back right after this. Before the break, we
talk about diversity in plots and that's something that I'm

(17:53):
really keeen on. Scott. You just planned a bunch of
stuff for yourself. What did you keep on? And I'm
gonna let you guys discuss that.

Speaker 3 (18:04):
Well over the years, and I hope Dudley will agree with.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
Me or not get too mad at me.

Speaker 3 (18:11):
I've told people that the absolute best food plot commercial
blend that you can buy is dream Patch Plus. I've
always utilized it because of the size bags that you
can purchase at retailers, and it's such an easy blend
to add a little bit to a little this or

(18:33):
a little that, like if I want it to be
a little bit heavier and radishes or any type of
braska or winter bulb that people are getting more familiar with,
and I can just always add that into my mix.
And I guess the reason why I like the green
Patch Plus so much in giving it a little extra

(18:53):
juice is because it goes back to that diversity and
there's so many things that are in there that are
going to get good germination with bare minimum seed, the
soul contact and a lot of the places that I
have found over the years that I can make the
biggest and the best improvements, honest, with smaller properties. It's

(19:15):
places that I have really limited equipment to go into.
So that's just over the years, as long as I've
known Dudley, and even before that, green Patch Plus was
just kind of it was my band aid on habitat
for annual food plots, and it really allows to go
in and frost seed later on with some more perennials.

(19:37):
So it's just a if you can make it a
PhD food plot with just doing something really basic.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
Dudley Scott just mentioned something that I think we really
need to emphasize, and that is that type of planning
does allow for frost feeding with clovers. I'm renovating the
plot as we speak, and uh, that's definitely what I'm
gonna do. I'm gonna go with that variety of seed

(20:06):
and then I'm gonna in late winter oversee my clovers
to replenish my clover part.

Speaker 4 (20:14):
Yeah, more and more folks are doing that, even down
here in Mississippi. Folks are experimenting with it some although
we're we're actually a little bit below the line, uh
where we you know, we just don't get enough frequent
frost events where the you know, surface of the ground
freezes to be able to so that freeze and thaw,

(20:34):
you know it it kind of sucks that seed into
the you know, top quarter inch of the soil. You know,
it'll crack and then thaw, and then that that silk
will kind of cave into that crack and it just
it puts it in the perfect place and that cold moist,
uh you know, helps stimulate it to sprout. Uh And uh,

(20:55):
more people do that than not these days. I was
we were talking to a cloth Over person on our
podcast recently, and he was saying that that's a more
common practice than actually preparing the site and planning in
the fall when you get you know, the further north
you go, and it works.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
Just great wells Really important too, though, is what folks
are wanting a lot of times is they are trying
to create an area that will really concentrate deer and
annuals overall just because of the management of them. You
can work a little bit of ground up and use

(21:38):
a little bit of fertilizer and you can have instant success,
and then during hunting season people have really good results
out of them, but unfortunately deer season's over and they
don't go back and look at that same area a
lot of times until next year they're ready to.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
Work it up.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
What's very beneficial with all of this stuff and learning
how to like bake, make a basic annual food plot
and then incorporate some of your newer varieties of radish
and some of your bulbs too, is it really helps
a lot of people out with their soil til and
a lot of folks don't realize a lot of this

(22:16):
ground that is being worked up in the food plots
it's normally not your best production agriculture ground, because your
best production ag ground is really it's already tied up
into your best hay fields and your best egg production
on your on your grain crops, especially here in the Kentucky,
Tennessee and Indiana area.

Speaker 4 (22:37):
Yeah, a lot of what US hunters weekend warriors are,
you know, planting up on top of a ridge or
you know, maybe where a long time ago they were
loading logs into the flock haller, you know, things like that,
and like you said, all the prime ground has been
taken up with you know, yeah, ag.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
Well, if you just the key to a lot of that,
of course, is turning what you do have into productive
ground for the wildlife. And there's a lot of ways
to accommodate that. Of course, we're going to talk about
at it at great length. Dudley. On the Brassica side
of things, especially the radishes and turnips, speak to the

(23:24):
importance of them and renovation of fields because of the
way they add humans to the soil and or penetrate
the ground. Because so many of these places that we
try to plant for wildlife are almost rock hard.

Speaker 4 (23:41):
Yeah, So so all of those plants in that Brassica family.
They have a really strong tap root, you know, and
it starts out with that that tube or that bulb,
but it has a really narrow root. It's you know,
it's almost hairline. But you know, you can dig a

(24:02):
hole and follow that root, you know, once that plant
is mature, and that that little hair like taproot maybe
three feet deep. So the beauty of these brassicas you
can plant them when it's almost too early or too
hot and dry. You get a rain event on them
enough for them to sprout, and that's about all they need.

(24:23):
They have that vigorous root that grows really deep. But
they also produce exodus. So it's it's, you know, just
like a liquidy substance. Other than saying it has a
lot of good stuff in it, that's what it has.
It's it's good for the soil. It feeds little micro organisms.

(24:44):
They can even deter certain types of weeds. But that
that root, when when that plant dies, it leaves that
little bitty hole in the ground, and so that helps
water infiltrate into the soils. So that field they call
them natural subsoilers. That field may have had some heavy

(25:07):
equipment or cattle on it years ago and it's become compacted. Normally,
you'd have to run some deep tillage through there, but
just planting a lot of these brasscas can alleviate that compaction.
And the other cool thing about them is that deep
taproot can get deeper than other plants. And so if

(25:28):
you had farmed that in years prior, the nitrogen and
the soil goes really deep quickly to where other plants
can't reach it. But that long taproot can reach that
nitrogen and then it brings it back up into the
leaves and that bulb, and then when it dies, it
leaves that nitrogen on the surface. They call that like

(25:51):
a nitrogen scavenger, and so that's available for your next crop.
But the clovers in your blend can can do similar things.
They actually fix nitrogen from the air in their roots
and then and then those roots leave nitrogen for the
next crop. And you know we were talking about blends

(26:15):
like green Patch Plus that also has cereal greens. They
serve purposes for soul health as well, and that that's
why farmers are now using them for cover crops. Uh.
They don't really want that bare dirt on the ground
all fall and winter. Anymore. They want to have something growing.
And you know, they've run like these cost analysis on this,

(26:39):
whether it's worth the extra cost of seed, uh and
it's actually saving them money. They you know, use less fertilizer,
less tillage, less herbicides, and so it's a wind wind
and we're we're now doing that in our food plots.
We're learning that you don't necessarily have to flip the

(26:59):
soil over every year. Scott was mentioning before our call
that he was doing some of these what we refer
to as poor man's practices, poor man's no til. I've
often referred to it as throwing moat. It's a it's
a really neat technique. You know, not all of us

(27:21):
have the no til drills. Well, I would say the
majority of us don't have all that fancy equipment. But
you can do the same things without it. Uh So
that that may be a fun subject to go into.
But uh I did it for eight years in a
row and had really good results. We sold our farm

(27:42):
and moved on to another place. But I just got
tired of disc in every year, lots of wear and tear,
and so I experimented in one field. I let the
weeds get kind of tall. I mounted a spray rig
a little bit higher up on the back of my
to where you could drive over that tall stuff and
spray it. Well, that is, and then that plant material

(28:10):
dies back, and then I throw my fertilizer line and
then my seeds out, and then I mow it to
cover it, and then that light thatch layer that falls
on top of the seed will kind of trap the
moisture and then those seeds will sprout and come up

(28:30):
through that thatch. And most of the time about eighty
eighty five percent of the field sprouts and comes up
nice and lush, and I'm perfectly happy with that. You know,
it's not perfect, but I'm improving my soils. I'm saving
time and money, and the wildlife don't seem to care.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah, there's the bottom line. Let me go to a
quick break here. Coming back, I want to talk to
you a little bit more about that process. This break
is presented by SMI Marine. They'll take care of all
your boating needs. Remember you never get soaked by my
friends at SMI touched on something that I think we
need to really emphasize here, and that is when you

(29:16):
do planting for wildlife you need, and it is especially
true a deer, for example, to provide what they need
on a year round basis as much as you can.
For example, the brashkas are really good for falling winter,
but not so much for that following spring and in

(29:36):
the summer. And that's why the diversity side of things
is so very very important, so true. You know, people
don't necessarily think about, well, a deer's got to be
fat and healthy coming out of winter to develop that
pedicle base. They have a good rack, and then conversely,

(30:00):
when it gets into spring, they need something that's green
and lush to push that forward during the growing season throughout.
Talk a little bit about your your thoughts about what
makes a good year round mix for that type of management.

Speaker 4 (30:18):
Well, uh, there's a lot of different options for that.
You guys were talking about frost seeding clovers earlier, and
that works great. You know you can plant them, you know,
maybe sometime in February and then you know, you get
that spring flush usually in Turkey season, and there's you know,
plenty of food there from your annual clovers. You can

(30:41):
also put a perennial clover into your into your fall
blend and then that that perennial clover. You know, it
establishes really slowly in the fall, but it takes off
that next spring and into the summer. You know, one
of the things about clover is if you do have

(31:02):
a dry July in August, it can go into a
dormant state, and so you need to be prepared for that.
A lot of people we have a clover blend called
clover plus that has chickery in it. That's another thing
you can add to your blends. It looks like a brassica.

(31:22):
It's not, but it has a deep taproot and it
has a leafy, you know, looking leaf similar to a brassica.
But it really comes on strong in the heat of
the summer. And so if your clover dies back, that
can be a good component. You know, things like beans
and peas. We all know that works really well. And

(31:45):
then you know, native habitat is also really important in
the summertime, just managing for all those good weeds, you know,
outside of your food plots, or just letting them some grut,
letting some of them grow in your food plots. You know,
if you see a lot of ragweed out there in
the in the late spring, you can just leave it

(32:07):
and let everything much on that over the summer.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
You know, Jim, listening to you and Udley talk it,
it brings something to foresight, and that is so many
people start off with food plotting is just a small
little area, and then as the development comes and I'm
sure Dudley's seeing it each and every day, when people

(32:32):
see just a little bit of success and they get
to taste it, what it really turns into is I
think all of us are guilty of having a really
good food plot addiction. But then it turns into the
management and there's a there's a big difference between just
creating a food plot for hunting season so that you

(32:55):
can punch your tag versus actually managing your piece of
property where you're providing not only.

Speaker 4 (33:00):
Do the deer, but all of the wildlife.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
Game and non game for that entire year, and looking
at management decisions that allow you to go forward so
that you can create the ultimate oasis for your game
to live on.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
You know, that is dep point. I think as much
and more than anything about what we're talking about tonight,
it's this diversity. And I want to relate a little
quick story here about something that really opened my eyes.
A good friend of mine, Brad Graham, manages his property.
We've been working together for decades, and he had a plot.

(33:41):
It was a fall plot and he wasn't able to planet,
but it had been fertilized and lying very very well,
and so when he didn't get a chance to plant it,
it came up in giant ragweed and we were down
there looking at it, and all of a sudden it
started to look like somebody went through there with a lawnmower,
and I was like, oh, my goodness. You know, here's

(34:03):
giant ragweed, which most people would hate, that was providing
a nutritional base because it had that line of fertilizer base.
And I'm not advocating people plant giant rag weed. I'm
just pointing out there's so many things out there that
didn't really like besides the established plots were talking.

Speaker 4 (34:24):
About oh for sure, and I would I would be
willing to throw it out there that what is not
in the food plots or you know, some of the
weeds you let grow up in your food plots. UH
on a lot of properties that may be more you know,
a lower hole in the bucket or a missing piece

(34:45):
than having the food plots themselves, you know, the in
stressful times of the summer and things like that. You know,
we were just talking about this, if some of your
food plots dry up, you know, these these plants of
the vault for gazillions of years to be able to
handle those summers and handle those soils. Things like ragweed,

(35:07):
whether it be that giant ragweed or the common rag weed,
both of them are just great for wildlife. But there's
a lot of other ones out there.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
Yes, sir, and we'll talk about those when we come
back from this break. Folks, coming back from break, we're
going to talk a little bit about poor man's wildlife management.
That is what you can do easily and it is very,
very efficient on your property. And Dudley is a real
expert at that, and of course Scott is as well.

(35:37):
So we'll do that right after the break. This break
is presented by MASSI Hi Property's Heart real Ty. Check
them out at m p h a r Trealty dot com.
We were talking a little bit about things that are
easy to do, is they can benefit people. And I
want to bring up something that you and I talked

(35:59):
about and that I stumbled upon years ago. I've always
been a big fan of cereal rye because the stuff
will grow in the back of a pickup truck if
it gets wet. That's number one easy to grow. It's
a great food source for deer in the late fall
and winter period and will stand up much better than

(36:22):
some of the other greens like oak, oats and wheat,
because it's like the grass in your yard. The deer
moett is jumps back up. The deer moett that jumps
back up and it's it's cold.

Speaker 3 (36:37):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
The reason I'm bringing this up so many of us
have clover plots because bang for the buck and the work,
you know, that's a plot that will last for years
on end. Where I'm leading with this is I discovered
if you can drill or broadcast cereal ride in with
your clover in the fall of the year, you're providing

(37:01):
that one two post that we talked about here earlier
in the program about feeding the deer all the way
up into the spring, because the clover will play out
in the winter, especially up in our area about mid December,
and then all of a sudden, here's that green growth
out of that cereal rye that will keep their gut

(37:23):
healthy and is a dark, good food source. I tell
people all the time, it's not a filetmen yall, but
it's a damn just slice of blade, that's right.

Speaker 4 (37:35):
So I remember, you know, back before we had Facebook groups,
we had these things called forums, and the Quality Deer
Management Association now called the National Deer Association had a
forum and there was a gentleman of a wildlife management person.
His name was Paul Knox. He has since passed away

(37:58):
from als. Just wonderful guy, was always just really knowledgeable,
always had lots of before and after photos and data
from what he was doing. He managed a bunch of
folks land up in Iowa, and he kind of taught me.
I never met the man, but you know, we knew
each other through the computer about the benefits of cereal rye.

(38:23):
And that's not to be confused with annual rye grass,
which is you know, it's it's considered an invasive and
we really don't want that in our food plots. But
the cereal rye is a good one, and he taught
us that it will grow and add more top growth

(38:46):
in soil temperatures as low as thirty eight fair and higher,
and wheat and oats you know, dear love them too,
maybe even a little bit more, but they're not quite
as cold tolerant. And so where that rye shines is
like you said, they pretty much eating all the clover
and it's quit regrowing. That's when that rye. You know,

(39:12):
it may not be their favorite thing to eat in September,
but in December, January, and February, they're they're keying in
on that because you know, it may be the only
game in town, especially in a really cold winter. And
it's also incredible for the soil. He showed us through

(39:32):
you know photos when he was playing drilling rye into
strips in in just a food plot blend you know, wheat, oats,
clover brassicas he was drilling rye into those on difficult
years when those plots didn't come up as well, and

(39:53):
it would come up. And he noticed that next spring
in summer when he was growing you know, springing summer crops,
that the areas that had the rye previously, they got
off to a better start, They had better germination, better
growth rates. It seemed like they retain moisture more. So

(40:14):
there's there's really something to the rye. And I totally
agree with you.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
Dudley, give us your recommendations for broadcasting serial rye in
a clover field, because not everybody's got a seed drill.
Those things are expensive.

Speaker 4 (40:31):
That's right. And you know, we were referring to this
as poor man's food plotting, but it's really like most
people's food plotting. Most of us don't have the fancy equipment,
and it sure is nice to have, but you know,
we've been getting by without it for a long time
and we're learning more of these older techniques that you know,

(40:54):
some of our great grandfathers were doing years ago that
that works really well. But yeah, you can just broadcast
you know, wheat and rye you know, doesn't have a
hole like oats, and it generally both of them generally
germinate better. Uh. You know a top dressing scenario, you

(41:15):
know that may be you're walking around flinging it out
with your hand or I like using an over the
shoulder bag spreader or something like one of those moultuary
spreaders that you can mount on the front or the
back of your full wheeler. And yeah, you can just
go out there, you know, even if whether it's your

(41:37):
normal food plot planning time or later on you know,
when thing's cool down and you're like, I want to
touch that spot up. You can go fling some rye
out there and it germinates on the surface really well
if you have enough moisture.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
What would be your recommendation on pounds breaker for that?
In stand of clover, for example, I.

Speaker 4 (42:00):
Think that it really varies. You know. Some of the
turkey folks are going to want to put it out
at a lower rate, and you can. You can leave
it standing in the in the in the spring, and
that way the pults can run around in there and
hide from hawks and things flying over. But if it's

(42:21):
really close together, they're not going to want to get
in there. It's going to be difficult to move around.
If your focus is deer, you could plant it, gosh.
I mean, I've even seen folks plant one hundred and
twenty pounds an acre. You know, we're not trying to
grow well, most of us are not trying to grow
a perfect seedhead like a farmer, you know, to to

(42:45):
get that grain. We're we're planning it for forage and
secondary you know grain. So it really depends on your goals.
You might want to mix it up, you know, some
of the areas that you think may be better for
turkeys in the spring and summer, you can plant it
really thin. Some of your larger fields where you're going

(43:07):
for forage, you might want to plant it pretty thick.
And that's the beauty of it. It's a long, narrow stem,
so sunlight can still get down in there even if
those plants are pretty close together.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
Yes, sir, I'm gonna go to a quick break here.
Coming back from break, Scott's going to talk about some
of the things he does to get really really good
plots going where again the average person can really get
a lot of benefit, and I want your thoughts about
that as well. This break is presented by SMI Marine.
Go see them. They'll take great care of you. Remember

(43:41):
you never get soaked to SMI Scott's or break. We
were talking about some of the ways to do things
efficiently and cheaply, which is big in today's world. And
with your hagg experience blended with your wildlife experience, you
got some thoughts I want you to run by Dudley.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
I think the most important thing is is people got
to have the gumption to want to go out there
and create better habitat and they've got to be willing
to learn how to food plot. And with the price
of things, I mean, you can still buy a one
gallon sprayer for ten twelve fifteen bucks. Just about everybody

(44:22):
I know that likes to hunter fish has got a
garden tiller or an ATV, and a lot of folks
that are in the hunting community they know enough folks
that they can get out there and get somebody to
utilize their tractor and disk and help them work up
a little spot. But I think the most important thing

(44:44):
is how important weeds are in where they fall into place.
Weeds in agriculture defined as any unwanted plant, but a
lot of things that we call weeds in production agriculture
are phenomenal products for so many different species of wildlife,

(45:06):
and the way in which we mold these things can
even filter deer or turkeys right in front of us.
And Dudley had mentioned that a lot of the practices
that we had utilized from what our great grandparents and
grandparents did have come into full intuition, and they really

(45:27):
have because the presence of fire, for example, is so
important and what that means with succession and discarification, being
able to go out there and turn some dirt over.
There are so many ways in which you can create
a natural food plot where you've got this incredible soul

(45:50):
bank that all you have to do is disturb. So
without talking about a brassica or an annual or a
perennial clover deadly, just explain to people how important it
is to let stuff grow up and to maintain it
with proper mechanization. And that's going to be the most

(46:11):
people of the bush hog to where you don't have
you know, saplings getting so big that you can't go
through and mo eventually. But just tell us how important
succession is for feeding our critters and giving them good
habitat that allows them to be comfortable in.

Speaker 4 (46:29):
Yeah, I mean, so just think about this, These all
these animals and bugs and everything. They've been here a
long time. You know, we may argue on the evolution
thing and all that and how far back it goes,
but they go back a lot farther than us, having
food plots and soybean fields and things like that, and

(46:53):
they thrived in that landscape. So they you know, we
were talking about ragweed earlier, things like ragweed, partridge pee,
all the different types of leaves on the on the wildflowers,
you know, and we're always kind of hinting about deer,
but everything, and you know, we didn't have food plots

(47:16):
two thousand years ago, but wildlife thrived. You can even
you know, on the computer these days, you can find
aerial topographic maps and aerial photos that showed what the
landscape looked like, you know, sixty seventy eighty years ago,

(47:38):
and it was vastly different. I don't want to get
too far into the quail subject, but you know, a
lot of the reason why we had quailed so long ago,
and well not long ago, a generation ago, it is
because we had that rough looking habitat everywhere we Timber

(48:00):
wasn't a big thing. Our ag fields were much smaller.
They had little thick fence rows. You know, we used
to make fences. We would cut cedar trees down and
throw the top off to the side and use the
log to make a post. You know. Nowadays we're spraying
all of our fence rows, We're cutting down all of

(48:24):
those random trees out in the fields that used to
have cover. And our landscape has just changed so much,
but we can make it look like it did one
hundred or hundreds of years ago, and it's easy to
do and it's cheap. You know. One of the main

(48:45):
things that you can do is you can get rid
of some of these non native cattle grasses. Like one
of the best things you could do for a property
for wildlife is to try to get rid of all
the fescue man welt. We've been planting that for years
for cattle, and you know, it's green, it's pretty and

(49:08):
when you mow it, it comes back greener and prettier,
but none of our wildlife really recognize it. It also,
uh has a toxicity to it as well that that
can affect birth rates and makes animal's coats look different
if if they eat too much of it, and things
like that. But so there's a wildlife management area in

(49:32):
Mississippi and the commission decided, uh, somebody brought it to
their attention that it was just completely covered in fescue,
uh and the wildlife there was just really subpart and
so uh they got some type of grant and we're
able to go in there. And UH, I'll preface this

(49:54):
by saying, you know, not everybody is gung ho about
spray and herbicides everywhere but we have created a problem
planting all of these non native grasses that have gotten
off into our wildlife areas, and we have no other
choice but to treat it. Otherwise it's just going to

(50:15):
persist and stay. But so this wm A, they went
in there and treated the fescue, and the plant life
that came back it had all of those species we
were talking about. You know, all those seeds were in
the soil, so your ragweed, all these different types of sunflowers,

(50:37):
you name it. But you can, you know, you can
walk through that place now and kick your legs through
the weeds, and you see grasshoppers jumping everywhere. You see
a mocking bird flying down to grab that grasshopper in
the air and eat it. You're hearing quail again. And

(50:58):
that was all one treatment. And you can even do that.
And you know, if you live on just say you've
got a house on the road and you've got ten
acres behind it, there's so much you can do. Uh,
And just starting off by getting rid of what isn't
supposed to be there is huge and it doesn't take much.

(51:22):
So yeah, it's not all about the food plots. It's
what is outside of those areas. That's that's really important.
And I've been doing it at my I've got a
little piece of property that's about twenty minutes from home
and my thing. Lately, I've been micromanaging all of my

(51:43):
old log loading decks. So I've got three log loading
decks on my property. And you know, the loggers had
left the logs there and it had grown up. And
I did splurge on one of those mulching machines and uh,
two of them, I put a ring around them just
so it's a fire lane, and I'm going to burn them.

(52:06):
And one of them I went ahead and had it,
had it mulched up, and uh, but you you know
the other one I'm going to run fire through. And
you know, I'm going to get all these cool weeds back,
but I'm also going to get bad weeds. So I've
been spot spraying them and the results have been tremendous.

(52:26):
You would wouldn't believe all the deer brows on all
of the weeds that have come up.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
That is really cool. All right, Dedley comes back from break.
We're going to talk to you about your passionate about
trees and tree plannings for wildlife, which is. I mean,
you're if you're not the expert expert, I don't know
who he is. So I'm really looking forward to hearing
you talk about that and how they can be integrated

(52:52):
as part of people's wildlife management plans on their property.
This break is presented by s By Marine. Check them
out there eleven four hundred Westport Road, just north of
the Snider. You never get sunk at sm I totally
Let's talk about one of your favorite subjects, and that

(53:13):
of course is trees for wildlife. And we got a
lot of talk about here, so I'm gonna turn it
over to you and let you roll.

Speaker 4 (53:22):
Well that that's kind of what got me into all
of this stuff, is Uh, I've just always had a
green thumb. It seems to run in the family. My
grandmother taught biology, and uh, you know, we would go
on little trips and she was, you know, show me
seeds and we would pick them up and I would

(53:43):
always come home with seeds in my pocket. I've just
been obsessed, and that that's kind of was my first obsession.
I was really hardwoods, and then uh, you know, forage
type trees, whether it be oaks, for Hman's pairs, you know,
all that good stuff. But when I first moved to

(54:08):
this college town start on Mississippi where Mississippi State is,
I came to go to forestry school. I had been
reading about hybrid oaks, and there there weren't a whole
lot of people talking about them. But thanks to the Internet,
you know, that was accessible, and it wasn't long before

(54:29):
I found one on campus. In fact, I had a
professor tell me about it, and I went and looked
at it, and it was a hybrid between cherry bark
oak and water oak, and it had intermediate traits between
you know, the two. But what was so interesting to
me is that that tree dropped so many acrons and

(54:54):
seemingly every year. So a way to explain know hybrid
vigor is, you know, it's it's like a better boy tomato.
So you get one type of tomato. It may not
taste that great, but it may be really resistant to

(55:14):
insects and diseases. And then you cross it with another
type of tomato that may not be the greatest either,
But but when you cross them, for some reason, they
seem to grow faster. You know, they put down roots
more quickly, and they they may even taste better, and
so that's what we're seeing with oaks. And it's, uh,

(55:37):
it's very primitive. It's not like we're doing some kind
of genetic modification. You know, we're just going out in
the woods or riding around and we'll find a tree
that looks different. And oaks are kind of my specialty.
I'm really good at identifying them, and so that helps
find the hybrids. And so I'm just obsess us with

(56:00):
riding around and looking for the odd boss and so,
you know, the same with my boss, Toxi, the owner
of Mossy Oak Camo. His name's Toxy Hayes. It's funny,
we both kind of fell into that obsession at the
same time. I don't know how that happened, but it did.

(56:21):
And so we're always on the lookout for them. And
you know, we've we've probably got ten or fifteen different
oak hybrids that we offer at native nurseries for different areas,
different site types. So another aspect is, you know, you
may have an overcup oak that grows in really really

(56:44):
wet soils like swamps. Well it's pollen can land on
the flower of a white oak up on top of
the hill. You know, that's like a favorite acorn. You know,
they make whiskey barrels out of of them. You know,
it's but it's an upland tree and so you you

(57:04):
cross the two and uh, we all we named it
rain maker oak. But it's an incredibly fast growing oak.
They often produce acorns at a young age. Uh. Deer
and other animals just kind of flock to them. And
they're they're not very uh they're what what we refer
to a site plastic. They'll grow down at the bottom

(57:27):
of the hill and they'll grow almost just as good
up on top of the hill. And so we've been
fascinated with that. Uh, but it just kind of morphed
into you know, looking for individual parent trees that are
it's superior in some kind of way. For example, we
go out and find per simmons that drop later in

(57:49):
the fall than your average per simon and we collect
seed from that. We may find something that drops really early.
We may look for an oak that has really small
acres that would be good to grow in a duck impoundment,
things like that. So we're always looking for something you need.

(58:13):
But it's it's been a fun journey for sure.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
Well, no doubt I'm gonna go to quick break here
because coming back from break, I want you to talk
about some of the easiest planning, fastest growing bang for
the buck trees and yours inventory. If you don't mind,
all right, folks, This break is presented by Mossy Oak
Property's Heart Realty. Paul Thomas is the broker. He's got

(58:38):
all kind of wildlife management properties, lake and riverside homes
for sale. Check them out at m O p h
a r Trealty dot com. Redly talk about some of
your favorites in the backyard situations, for example, and how

(59:00):
to be beneficial of the wildlife and how to putt
and win the plant.

Speaker 4 (59:04):
Okay, yeah, So we like to be wildlifers both at
the at the hunting camp or at the family land,
uh or in our backyard and in a backyard may
may be what all we have. Uh you may have
a big backyard that that you could even hunt in,
but uh around the house, I like to do a

(59:27):
few trees that I can eat myself, you know, like
some of the plums and things. But but they also
attract pollinators, so you can see butterflies, you can see
birds going to eat you know, eat the insects that
are on the plants, and then you know, a big oak.
You know, somebody may have a feeder in their backyard,

(59:51):
you know, so they can see the deer and turkeys
and things. But we all know how expensive a lot
of that has gotten. So you know, why not spending
you know, ten or twelve bucks on a seedling and
that can drop hundreds of dollars worth of feed every year,
you know, and it's just prettier. But as far as

(01:00:15):
had a plant, I like to prep my planting hole
a little bit in advance. So you know, we all
think of tree plantings almost like it's a forestry thing,
where you know, you may plant it on an eight
by ten spacing or whatever, and they plant those bear
root plants iires are a little bit nicer. They're grown

(01:00:38):
in a fancy pot that encourages a really healthy root system.
And since it is potted, you have a much wider
range of planting time. So even up in Kentucky, the
way the temperatures have been, you can almost plant all
winter ball. But the best times to plant are when

(01:01:00):
the ground kind of gets wet for the winter so
that the leaves have fallen off the trees in the
fall and you start getting a couple of winter pattern rains.
That's a great time to plant. So that may be
sometime in November or early December, and then those those
roots will have they will root in all winter long

(01:01:22):
and in in in early spring, so they'll be that
much more drought tolerant. Uh that next summer when you
have a drought spring is also good as well. Uh.
Just keep in mind, uh, you know, they may be
leafed out a little bit, and so you have to
worry about you know, they're just gonna be a little

(01:01:44):
bit more tender and they hadn't had that time to
root in. But that's generally the best windows in, uh,
you know, in most of the South is late fall
and again in the early spring. In the deeper South,
you can plant all winter long. But I generally like
to pre dig my holes. I tell folks to make

(01:02:07):
a miniature pictures mound. So just like a farmer plant's
on top of a road. You want that nice loose
garden like air raated soil. So I usually just put
a pin flag down or several pin flags kind of
pick my spacing. I'll step back and look at it

(01:02:27):
and once I've decided that's where I want them to be.
I go and dig it up and flip the soil over,
and I'll even grab a couple of scoops from off
to the side and make it slightly mounded, and then
you know you can plant the same day. But oftentimes
that dirt's gonna come up really clotty, and you want

(01:02:50):
that soil to be loose so you can pack it
in around the root. So I like to kick it
up a notch by doing an advance and letting that
dirt get rained on and all that, and it kind
of melts back into the hole. And then a couple
months later on planting day, you can almost just use
your hand to make a little bitty hole and set

(01:03:12):
the seedling in. Whereas if you hadn't prepped it at all,
you know, you may show up and it just be
clay and come up in big clumps, and you don't
get a lot of good root to soil contact. So
you know, we're not planting hundreds of trees, we're just
planting a few. So you have that extra time to
really go the extra mile, and you can put the

(01:03:36):
plastic cylinders we call them tree tubes or tree protectors.
You put that around the seedling. When you're done, you
make sure it's in full sun. You do just a
little bit of fertilization and weed control around the tree,
whether that be maulch or spray a little circle around
up on the ground to kill all the grasses and weeds.

(01:03:59):
It's not uncommon at all for one of our eighteen
inch tall seedlings to hit, you know, five to seven
feet tall in the first year.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
Suddenly you all do something that's highly unusual, and hats
off for the way you all discovered this. You actually
strengthen your trees very early in life by take them
out of the nursery. Talk about that because that's a
really cool part of your process.

Speaker 4 (01:04:32):
Yeah, So we start them in the greenhouse, and it
just depends on the species. We probably grow about forty
different species, and some of them we start earlier, some
of them we start later. But we do start them
in a greenhouse to buy us a little bit of time.
But once they have flushed and kind of hardened off,

(01:04:53):
you know, the leaves have gotten big, and then we
move them outside once you know, once spring has hit
and you know, danger of frost is gone, and growing
them in the open air like that is how mother
nature does it, but with the wind blowing on them,

(01:05:14):
that will It's kind of like lifting weights. So when
you lift weights, you're breaking those cells down and then
they regrow stronger. And so we do lose a little
bit of height growth with that method, but you have
a thicker stem because it's you know, it's got that
diameter growth from you know, growing those muscles from being

(01:05:34):
in the wind. And then we also adults really spray
insecticides or fungicides. These are not gonna look as pretty
as a as a plant on the shelf at Low's
or home depot. We want them to be used to
the rigors that mother nature provides them. So yeah, you

(01:05:56):
might get a few brown spots on the leaves, you
may get a little bit of insect damage, but don't
fear that plant's going to be okay because they're used
to that already. If we were to you know, treat
them with a fungicide the whole time they were at
the nursery and then you go put them in a

(01:06:16):
box and ship them to a different area, they're going
to be way more prone to developing problems because they're
not they're not used to being outside. But yeah, we
try to keep it as you know, for lack of
a better phrase, mother nature.

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
As possible, yes, sir, well, and it works, Oh, it
absolutely works. And that's something unique about the way y'all
do things. That mean for folks who are backyard type
of people that are used to apple trees or maybe
a peach or a plump what are some of the

(01:06:55):
wild varieties that are great for wildlife and the fruit section?
Then you would.

Speaker 4 (01:07:01):
Okay, my favorite, uh is chickasaw plum and that's uh.
I just jokingly tell everybody you know, that's what your
grandmother made jelly out of. It was kind of a
roadside plum. You'd see them on fence rows. It grows
really clumpy. All the quail people love them. That's that's

(01:07:25):
really good cover for quail. But that's they're good to
eat out of hand. They're good to make, you know,
jelly and preserves with another really cool one. And you
know in Kentucky, uh, they do a lot of research
on them. This is Paul Paul's I'm looking at one
in my yard. It's it had its I think it's

(01:07:45):
in its fifth year, and it had a couple of
fruits on it this year for the first time. But
guysh you talk about some good ice cream, Paul Paul's tastes.
They they taste similar to a banana. Some people say
it's like banana mango, but it's this big green, kidney
shaped fruit that has this yellow to white, creamy fruit

(01:08:11):
on the inside, and it's just amazing. Trying to think.
Black cherry is another good one. Red mulberry is one
of my favorites. They're you know, they're kind of like
a BlackBerry, but it grows in a tree form. I
was talking to a photographer, a wildlife photographer, and she

(01:08:33):
said that she photographed seventeen different species of songbirds eating
out of one red mulberry in one day. And you know,
turkeys love it, deer love it, and humans love them too.
But those are some good, good examples. And then of

(01:08:54):
course American per semon can't go wrong with that one.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
You know one that's uh, it's very very special because
I've never seen any species whileife didn't like that. And
I don't care if you're talking about possums, cows, deer, coons,
you name it. Everything loves the including Jimbo Strainer.

Speaker 4 (01:09:17):
Oh yeah, I mean you can run that pulp through
like a sieve or a strainer and freeze it. Same
with Paul Paul. You can make ice cream, you know,
like banana nut bread type stuff. I like just eating
them out of hand. You know, you've got to wait
until they're mushy and overripe. But uh, that was one

(01:09:41):
of my favorite things to do when I was a
kid rabbit hunting with my dad was when we find
a persimmon patch and get to eat per simmons.

Speaker 2 (01:09:50):
Yes, sir, and that Paul Paul. Do you that? Fortunately
up here, the soils are very very good for Paul
Paul growth. And I'm sure you've probably heard this growing
up picking up Paul Paul's put them in your pocket.

Speaker 4 (01:10:05):
Oh yeah, ks T has done so much work with
Paul Paul. So you could probably call you know, somebody
uh in the you know, wildlife facility or wherever that
program is at ks U and uh and learn more.

(01:10:25):
And they may even have offer cuttings and things if
you wanted to get into that. But such a cool crop,
especially you know in the backyard. It's so fun to
watch the progression of them when you you plan them
and they grow a lot the first year. It's it's
just kind of addictive.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
Well, Dudley, I'm very very pleased that you could be
on with us tonight, and a lot of things you've
said about the proms for Quail, for example, We've covered
a lot of ground tonight that I think folks probably
haven't heard before. And we're indebted to you, and I
need to get you back on here soon.

Speaker 4 (01:11:07):
Yeah. I feel like we just hit the tip of
the iceberg here and we you know, we could go
on for a couple hours more. The one thing I
want to encourage everybody to do is pick a little
spot in your yard, maybe a ten by ten area,
and try to turn it. You know, just kill the

(01:11:29):
grass that's there and see what kind of wildflowers come up.
And I guarantee you you'll get hooked on it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:36):
All right, Dudley, I appreciate it. That's a rep God
bless everybody.