May 22, 2025 • 21 mins
Maria chats with naturalist Charles Hood--a poet, essayist and photographer, about his latest book Nature At Night: Discover The Hidden World That Comes Alive After Dark.
Charles takes us on a journey into the dark--as most of us are sleeping--and teaches us about the nocturnal world through descriptions and stunning photos. The night time awakens and we are there to observe it through Nature At Night!
Charles takes us on a journey into the dark--as most of us are sleeping--and teaches us about the nocturnal world through descriptions and stunning photos. The night time awakens and we are there to observe it through Nature At Night!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Maria's MutS and Stuff. What a great idea. On iHeartRadio,
Welcome to Maria's Mutts and Stuff. And with me is
naturalist and adventurer Charles Hood with his new beautiful book
Nature at Night, Discover the hidden world that comes alive
(00:21):
after dark. So, Charles, thank you for taking some time out.
Thank you for writing this amazing book. I love it.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Well, I'm so happy to be with you today. And
I appreciate those kind words. And I'll just alert your
listeners if I sound distracted. My dogs may hear my voice.
He sounds like there's somebody in the room to see. Yeah, someone,
What does he bring over? Friends? Do they have to write?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Oh? I love that. Oh that's good. And if they
bark in the background, that's even better. I don't mind
that at all. It's very dog right now.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Okay, so I'm hoping they'll leave me.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Oh my goodness, that's so cute. What are your dog's names?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I have two rescue dogs, and one is Fo she's
a a sort of a Siberian husky kind of thing.
And then we have sam Wise, who is a Shepherd
husky mix. And they have different personalities, but they both
are interested in, you know, if they hear my voice
sound together, animated, like, what's going on?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
What's going on? We want to be part of it.
Of course, what's Dad doing? I get it exactly, I
get it. I get it. Ah, I love it. That's
so cool. I know it's funny too, because in your
bio that comes in your book. I love that it
says that you're the proud caretaker of two dogs, two kayaks,
and two mountain bikes. I love it. It's our unique description.
But it's perfect.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Well, and you mentioned there's also five thousand books mentioned
in there.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Oh, I forgot about that part. That part, Yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
The bibe these others.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yes, it's true, the five thousand books. So okay. So
I just have to tell you. You know, way back
when when I first started radio, and I did an
overnight show, and I did overnights for years, and there's
a whole nother world out there in the middle of
the night, and your book just supports that, right, things
come out only at night. And so tell me, so,
(02:06):
why did you write this book?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
You know, for those of us who are sort of
outdoorsy or kind of nature affiliated, we're trained by society
to mistrust the night. This is true for most people.
I suppose, like you have to have security security lights
and a ring camera and when you open your car door,
all the lights go on, and that's just you know,
that's that's a false shouldn't be a scared afraid of
the dark. But of course if you like nature, then
(02:30):
nature didn't turn itself off on nature, right, and so
twenty four hours of nature would include understanding, appreciating, celebrating
what's happening after dark.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Sure, and I mean there's a whole another world at
night when it comes to nature, which I think probably
many people don't realize, or not that they don't care
about it, but they don't realize because they're probably sleeping
or I think it's what you said, it's almost like
that fear. You know, I'm not going to go out
at night. But if you do go out night, go
out at night. I mean, I love the fact your
(03:01):
big four words is have fun, be safe. Let's talk
about that. Why is that a good good advice for
people who go out and explore nature at night.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Well, it's important for us to protect our night vision.
And actually as humans, we actually anybody can see fine
at night if we couldn't see at night, our ancestors
would have never walked home from the farm or you know,
just gathered in the crops. But where we lose our
night vision when the headlights go on and the porch
light goes on. So if we're going to go out
at night, when I say be safe, not really thinking
(03:31):
about bad people assaulting us so much as protect your
night vision. Have a backup flashlight. Everyone's lost their keys
or dropped something, and so what if you've got at night,
have a second flashlight in case you break the first one.
And so that's also tied into the idea of it's fun,
it's easy, but take normal precautions right right, you go,
if you're going to go on your first night hike,
(03:52):
maybe go during the day, kind of learn the routine
a little bit, and then come back after dark.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Right yeah, which is just kind of common sense advice
which I think sometimes a lot of people don't have anymore.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Well, I don't know if it's just because I grew
up in an older generation, but that's sort of idea
that you're responsible for yourself, you know, So it's not
like I, you know, I'm so old, I don't have
a cell phone in my childhood, you know, so right, no, right,
be responsible, ride your bike, don't get it stolen, don't
get you know, don't.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Get arrested, right exactly. Yeah, it's true. That's the stuff
I grew up with too. I didn't have a cell
phone growing up as well. So yeah, it's a it's
a whole nother world. It's true. It's actually just very
simple common sense. So let's talk about a little bit
about what happens at night. Like I love the fact
that you talk about that animals, like, how do they
(04:39):
know what time it is? So let's talk a little
bit about that.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
We know from various scientific studies that there are circadian rhythms.
I mean, all of all of your listeners know that
for themselves, and they so you know that our that
our pets in our house, household, you know know what
time it is. That my wife has fish and they
know what time it is. Of course we didn't have
life on the tank. They would know what morning is
because it's time to get fed. Those circadium rhythms apply
(05:02):
across the entire spectrum of animals and some you know,
including plants, and you know why else they should say
in the natural world. But for some things, they realize
I can exploit the world in a more efficient way
if I just switch my orientation. So if we think
about the typical flower, it's used to kind of in
our minds, we're picturing something yellow or red and the
sun is shining and the pollinators like hummingbirds, are buzzing around.
(05:27):
But everybody else is a red flower all around us,
or a yellow flower whatever. So some flowers thought, you
know what, what if we switch over, it will be
the nighttime flowers. And yeah, we're gonna have maths instead
of butterflies. So we don't care, you know what the
name is as long as of things. So these are
often white flowers or in the case of like suarrow
cacti in the desert southwest, they like bats. So this
(05:51):
cacti that are that have these big, showy white flowers, tubular,
they're producing nectar, same as anything that would attract a hummingbird,
but they're attracting these long nosed bats in the desert
southwest and in northern Mexico, same thing pollinating tequila plants,
by the way, to call it yegatti for tequila, and
so they're getting pollinated, but they are able to get
(06:13):
a really great pollinator because bats are big long distance flyers,
and so you can get your genetic material way the
heck out the one hundreds of miles away. The bats
can do that in part because they're digesting the nectar,
but they can also digest pollen a hummingbird can't do.
Hummingbirds actually have to catch insects to round out their diet.
(06:34):
You know, they're not just drinking from our hummingbird feeders exclusively.
But bats can actually make do the you know, the
pollinating bats can make do just simply off of nectar
and pollen, and that's a satisfactory diet for them. So
they've focused on that instead of doing things that other
bats are doing, catching frogs or catching mosquitoes.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Right, yeah, yeah, so and it's funny too because people
are scared of bats. Bats come out at night. So
it goes full circle to what you said at the beginning,
which you know, human nature just being odd, being weird,
or just the way they're we're wired.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Well, of course we want to be cautious. If I'm
at night and I see something on the trail, is
it a snake or is it a stick? That's a
very healthy response way to respond to the world, but
it's been made about a thousand times worse by this
sort of cultural idea that the darkness is inherently menacing.
That's where the horror films are, that where wolves are,
and almost I don't want to get political, but it
(07:32):
almost extends kind of our racial profiling of you know,
darker things in general should be are the menacing things,
and the whiter, more brightly lit things are kind of this.
You know, Heaven is brightly, that hell is dark. Right
if we think about these sort of extensions, and that's
just robbing us of our heritage. We have every reason
to be happy all the long. First of all, exactly
(07:52):
no reason not to enjoy the nocturnal moth, right, No.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
No, I mean it's funny. I just had this conversation
with somebody about black dog syndrome. Black dogs black cats
are scary. Why they're not scary at all, but people
think they are because the movies. You know, the mean
dog is always the black dog, which is a Rottweiler
or a Doberman. Black cats, Oh, it's bad luck, not true,
so I think it goes. It's all it's all with
(08:16):
the same theme. You know what I mean, it goes
along with what you just said.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
You are so right about that. And in terms of
like you know, I mentioned I have two dogs, and
the husky happens to be what they call sable. I
just call it the white dog. And then my shepherd
mix is pure black. And even when people come over
to my house and they trust me and they know
I'm not going to stick the dog off them, they
like the white dog. You know, the husky is somehow
(08:39):
known or friendly or perceived to be a better product.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Isn't that crazy? It's just so bizarre to me. I mean,
it's just crazy. I just had this conversation and that
we're having it as well. It's just so crazy. But
I think it's also it's gotten drummed into people's heads
from what they see on TV, in the movies, you know,
fantasy stuff, but you know, with a whole like black dog,
(09:06):
black cat syndrome and that. And you're right. And I
was just having this conversation and the person said, yeah,
people are more afraid of black animals than they are
and I was like, but it doesn't make sense. But
like you just said, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
I love what you're bringing up because I never thought
about this, but now every were wolf I've ever seen
is always dark brown or black like, even though real
wolves can be pure white nature, right, lots of wolves
are sort of gray with even a tan undercoat. So
black wolves are the rare ones, but were wolves are
not never can never variegated, right, and I mean not
(09:41):
having their wolf imaginations broad It's true.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Well, it's true. I mean, and think about it. That
were really going off tangent because I want to get
back to your book, but it's just funny, not off
off off the subject. But I'm just that you just
popped in my head talking about wolves. I'm thinking of
member Game of Thrones and the you know, John Snow's
wolves were pure white wolves and they were like the
friendly helper wolves, right right, Yes, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
And that goes into you know, racial relations and how
people even from Southern Europe were devalued historically in North
America compared to Northern Europeans. Yeah, you know, it's all interconnected.
And I don't try to make a big deal out
of this in the book because that gets into sort
of some messy politics. Of course, that is the reality
that we're just as scared of that we're praying to
be afraid of the dark more than.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Is reasonable, right, which is true.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
So we don't want our listeners to go out stepping
on snakes, bad for the snake, for.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
You, bad for you, right exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
But use your flashlights your.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Flash light, yes, and go out and actually to get
you exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
The animals that didn't have with the night or not,
you know, the bats or not. They don't want to
get in your hair. They're not going to give you rabies.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
They're not going to bother you. They just want to
be themselves, right, And that's why your book is so perfect,
discover the hidden world that comes alive after dark. How
long did it take you to put all the research
together for the book? Like, how long did it take
you to write it?
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Once I get my notes together, I can usually work quickly.
I'm kind of different than some of the other writers,
So it might only be a year. So those those
of our listeners who don't earn in the trade, then
it's another two years of production, you know, they have
we have to go through all the photo editing and
copy editing, and then the production. The books are on
you know, on boats coming from China, and you know,
(11:25):
sure and that's good to a warehouse. So I was
working on this years ago, plural, but my writing is
relatively swift.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Mm hmmm. Oh that's pretty good actually. And what number
book is this for you to have written?
Speaker 2 (11:36):
You've written a lot of books I have, I think,
depending how we count a lot of the poetry publications,
this will be a round book. Twenty two ish.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah, that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah, that's yeah. It's like anything in life. If you
do it all your life, it'll your resume will accumulate
by the end of your life.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Well that's true, that's true. And you are not at
the end of your life, so you have plenty more
books in you. I know, when you were doing of
putting this book together, doing the research, was there anything
that you learn that surprised you, something that you didn't realize?
Speaker 2 (12:10):
You know? And again, I'm used to the daytime, I'm
used to listen to the land, and I hadn't appreciated
the largest migration on Earth is actually in the ocean.
So it's not the caribou in Alaska, and it's not
the serengetti will the beast, but trillions and trillions and
trillions of organisms are rising up out of the depths
during the night time to come up to the surface
where the phytoplankton are the little planty things that need
(12:33):
sunlight or a surface. But that's where the predators are.
So during the day, the lesser animals, the zol plankton
and other things, they're down there a thousand feet to
house feet buol the surface and a nice safe darkness.
The light kind of ends around three hundred feet roughly speaking,
and they make a vertical migration to come up to
the surface to feed. Well, that stand means things are
following them, so like squid are coming up to the surface,
(12:54):
and that then means the dolphins are feeding at night.
When we go on a whale watching trip and we
see the happy, splashy dolphins, they're happy and they're splashy,
probably because they've already fad. They're feeding all night long
because they have like a location they don't need daylight
to eat a fish, sure catch a squid, and so
they're up as a surface during the daytime socializing because
(13:15):
that's there. That's their day off, so to speak. Right,
I didn't really appreciate the scale of this is global
in scale, and you know, it's not even seasonal. It
is depending on where we are. Obviously the artic is
a little bit different. But everything is moving up and
down vertically every day of the year. I just found
that fascinating.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
It is no, it is. It's like it's like the
food chain is happening, but it's happening at night because
the blanks about it.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
I have a picture of a dolphin during the day
and it's got these little rosettes of whiteness on its flanks.
This was in Indonesia, and I realized, oh, those are
scars from cookie cutter sharks. So as the animals are
going up and down, there's some sharks hanging around, pretty small,
like a foot and a half long. They've got a circular,
round mouth and they latch onto things quickly, do a
little spin, take a little divid of skin out, and
(14:02):
peel away. These are called cookie cutter sharks, right, And
you can see the scars on dolphins and whales. And
I happened to see a dolphin that was breaching out
of the water and I got a picture like, what
of that? What's this long series of white circles on
this poor animal's flanks? Right? And that's when I realized
oh at night, it's been it's been predated itself as
it was chasing the squid by these sharks.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Wow, and that's fascinating because most people wouldn't know that, right,
How would we know that? They didn't teach us that
in school.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, I got a pretty good picture, you know, for
those of those of you who like to learn through imagery,
which includes me, you know, I like pretty pictures. So
there's actually a pretty good picture of that in the book.
One of the two and forty pictures is of this
leaping dolphin that shows very clearly the shark bites along
its flank.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
The pictures in your book are stunning.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Just so you know, well, you're very kind. I appreciate that.
I'll hear I hold a copy up to the microphone
so that your reader's compete a little bit better.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Well, you know, when I when I make this live,
I will post some of the phone from it because
it's really I really the photos are just they really
are stunning. I mean, I'm right now, I'm looking at
the owl and it starts owls and night jars, Moonlight's
mystery birds. So let's let's talk a little bit. Why
are owls there? The mystery birds at night with the
(15:17):
moonlight especially.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah, and again there's a long cultural history, particularly in
North America. You know, the idea if you see an owl,
then someone's going to die, and that sort of thing.
And you know what, can we say, Folklore can give
us great wisdom but also a lot of boulder dash.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yeah, that's a great word, by the way, boulder dash.
I haven't heard that in a long time. I love it.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Well, we're trying to we keep this show g rated.
We want everybody to feel.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Coming, right, that's true, but we don't have to trail. Yes,
if you find a word you want, you can just
say it. It's okay, but yes, so I'm sorry to
mean to interrupt you. I just love that word, but
go ahead.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
So you know, there are hundreds of species of owls
all the way down to the elf owl that lives
in woodpecker holes and smirow cacti up to the eagle owls,
and they are finding lots and lots of ways to
exploit their environment or fit into their environment. And I
just thought it'd be interesting to show those but also
to have photography that wasn't deer in the headlights. If
we know that express expression. Tell your listeners there ain't
(16:13):
a single deer in a single headlight in that book,
simply because I refuse to allow that kind of photography
to happen. It harasses the animals and it makes a
very garish, lured kind of photograph. So on average, the
flash or the flash units we're using or turned to
a very low setting and often diffused with fashion fashion
model lighting, if that makes sense to do a fashion shoot,
(16:36):
they have these diffusers they use so that wraps the
light around the model. And we brought those same lights
into the rainforest in Nicaragua, for example, and in Peru
in order to photograph owls and bats in a more
i'll say encouraging way or a more welcoming way to
(16:56):
make them seem less fearsome. And that's just a matter
of you know, how do we want to manipulate the
image and try to move the camera around and maybe
move the lighting and say, hey, here's a flattering angle.
This is actually a nice portrait.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
I just found everything amazing, and in fact I just
found the photo on page two fifty, two hundred and
fifty of the rough tooth Dolphin. Yeah, well there you go,
there you go. Yeah, and you can see all the
marks on it. It's it's pretty incredible.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
And that's the tropical species that normally we wouldn't see
in North America. There are a few records for southern California.
But yeah, that picture was in Indonesia on a boat.
Gosh darn it. I had to go to the flight
of Bali and get on a boat. Oh, oh my goodness.
Started this book was so much.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
It was Oh my goodness, you poor thing. Had to
go to Bali. Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I go to Bali and they upgraded my room and
I had to have to stay in a private suite
with my own swimming pool.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Oh my no, poor poor things.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
They kept bringing them to me. It was dreadful being
a naturalists. I just can't believe it.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Oh my god, that's so funny. So yeah, So obviously
this book took you all around the world, right, and
I I mean, I assume you've already been all around
the world, because this is book number twenty two. Was
there any place that you went to for this book
that was the first time.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Sure, Metagascar. Oh my goodness. I've been waiting to go
to Madagascar all my life and I hadn't really appreciated.
You know, we see the daytime lemurs if you've been
to a zoo, if you ringtail lemurs or something, but
most lemurs are actually nocturnal. Many are quite small and
quite cute.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Uh huh, yeah, so I hadn't really.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Again, you know, there's oh now I think we're up
to is our eighty species of but there been le's.
They call it splitting. They've been taking one and making
it into two units. So taxonomically it's very diverse now.
But I didn't appreciate how many lemurs are just only
out at night.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
M Yeah, I never knew that until your book.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
For your listeners, there's a picture of me in Madagascar,
me myself, the author. Because I saw animal number one
thousand in terms of mammals, I'm actually that trip and so.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Yeah, I'm actually flipping to that page so I can
also tell my listeners where they are with that. There
you are one thousand, page two twenty seven, holding number
one thousand. That's great.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah, I thought it might happen. So we made a
sign up in America before we got in the airplane
to fly to Madagascar, and my assistant and I Crossley's
dwarf from Memur and there's a we got a picture
of it. Uh, you know, I don't know what to say, Like,
it was just fun to do, you know, it's like
birdwatching anything else. Lists are fun.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Fun to have a big number.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, and that Lemur is very adorable, by the way.
That's that's the one that's next to you with the
one thousand you got, no very Yeah. So for my
listeners who are like, I'm fascinated, I have to see
these photos. I have to see this book Nature at Night?
Where can they get it?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
I really want to support our local bookstores. If you
have anything that's independent and local, please order it through them.
They need your business, yes, but it's where you live.
The only thing that services you is Amazon. I have
an Amazon account too. I will not look down on you,
right or the publisher itself. Timber has its own website
and you can get the book through Timber as well.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Okay, all right, and what is on what's on the
agenda next for you?
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Well, I'm working on a book about acorns, which it
can turn out to be culturally relevant, but also there's
hundreds and hundreds of species of oaks on the way
that you know, a given oak tree is actually supporting many, many,
hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of insects besides the birds
and the fung guy and the other kind of things
you'd be associated with. It turns out as a much
richer topic than I expected.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Wow, so that will be your next book? And is
it going to be another fast one? You think?
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Well? God willing right?
Speaker 1 (20:30):
All right, well you Charleshood, thank you so much. Thanks
for chatting about your book Nature at Night, and I
look forward to talking to you again, because now I'm
looking forward to and I'm intrigued by your next book
about you know, about the acorns. I think it's probably
going to be just as fascinating. So thank you, thank.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
You, so happy to talk to you. Thank you, Bye
bye
It's Maria's MutS and Stuff. What a great idea. On iHeartRadio,
Welcome to Maria's Mutts and Stuff. And with me is
naturalist and adventurer Charles Hood with his new beautiful book
Nature at Night, Discover the hidden world that comes alive
(00:21):
after dark. So, Charles, thank you for taking some time out.
Thank you for writing this amazing book. I love it.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Well, I'm so happy to be with you today. And
I appreciate those kind words. And I'll just alert your
listeners if I sound distracted. My dogs may hear my voice.
He sounds like there's somebody in the room to see. Yeah, someone,
What does he bring over? Friends? Do they have to write?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Oh? I love that. Oh that's good. And if they
bark in the background, that's even better. I don't mind
that at all. It's very dog right now.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Okay, so I'm hoping they'll leave me.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Oh my goodness, that's so cute. What are your dog's names?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I have two rescue dogs, and one is Fo she's
a a sort of a Siberian husky kind of thing.
And then we have sam Wise, who is a Shepherd
husky mix. And they have different personalities, but they both
are interested in, you know, if they hear my voice
sound together, animated, like, what's going on?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
What's going on? We want to be part of it.
Of course, what's Dad doing? I get it exactly, I
get it. I get it. Ah, I love it. That's
so cool. I know it's funny too, because in your
bio that comes in your book. I love that it
says that you're the proud caretaker of two dogs, two kayaks,
and two mountain bikes. I love it. It's our unique description.
But it's perfect.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Well, and you mentioned there's also five thousand books mentioned
in there.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Oh, I forgot about that part. That part, Yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
The bibe these others.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yes, it's true, the five thousand books. So okay. So
I just have to tell you. You know, way back
when when I first started radio, and I did an
overnight show, and I did overnights for years, and there's
a whole nother world out there in the middle of
the night, and your book just supports that, right, things
come out only at night. And so tell me, so,
(02:06):
why did you write this book?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
You know, for those of us who are sort of
outdoorsy or kind of nature affiliated, we're trained by society
to mistrust the night. This is true for most people.
I suppose, like you have to have security security lights
and a ring camera and when you open your car door,
all the lights go on, and that's just you know,
that's that's a false shouldn't be a scared afraid of
the dark. But of course if you like nature, then
(02:30):
nature didn't turn itself off on nature, right, and so
twenty four hours of nature would include understanding, appreciating, celebrating
what's happening after dark.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Sure, and I mean there's a whole another world at
night when it comes to nature, which I think probably
many people don't realize, or not that they don't care
about it, but they don't realize because they're probably sleeping
or I think it's what you said, it's almost like
that fear. You know, I'm not going to go out
at night. But if you do go out night, go
out at night. I mean, I love the fact your
(03:01):
big four words is have fun, be safe. Let's talk
about that. Why is that a good good advice for
people who go out and explore nature at night.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Well, it's important for us to protect our night vision.
And actually as humans, we actually anybody can see fine
at night if we couldn't see at night, our ancestors
would have never walked home from the farm or you know,
just gathered in the crops. But where we lose our
night vision when the headlights go on and the porch
light goes on. So if we're going to go out
at night, when I say be safe, not really thinking
(03:31):
about bad people assaulting us so much as protect your
night vision. Have a backup flashlight. Everyone's lost their keys
or dropped something, and so what if you've got at night,
have a second flashlight in case you break the first one.
And so that's also tied into the idea of it's fun,
it's easy, but take normal precautions right right, you go,
if you're going to go on your first night hike,
(03:52):
maybe go during the day, kind of learn the routine
a little bit, and then come back after dark.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Right yeah, which is just kind of common sense advice
which I think sometimes a lot of people don't have anymore.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Well, I don't know if it's just because I grew
up in an older generation, but that's sort of idea
that you're responsible for yourself, you know, So it's not
like I, you know, I'm so old, I don't have
a cell phone in my childhood, you know, so right, no, right,
be responsible, ride your bike, don't get it stolen, don't
get you know, don't.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Get arrested, right exactly. Yeah, it's true. That's the stuff
I grew up with too. I didn't have a cell
phone growing up as well. So yeah, it's a it's
a whole nother world. It's true. It's actually just very
simple common sense. So let's talk about a little bit
about what happens at night. Like I love the fact
that you talk about that animals, like, how do they
(04:39):
know what time it is? So let's talk a little
bit about that.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
We know from various scientific studies that there are circadian rhythms.
I mean, all of all of your listeners know that
for themselves, and they so you know that our that
our pets in our house, household, you know know what
time it is. That my wife has fish and they
know what time it is. Of course we didn't have
life on the tank. They would know what morning is
because it's time to get fed. Those circadium rhythms apply
(05:02):
across the entire spectrum of animals and some you know,
including plants, and you know why else they should say
in the natural world. But for some things, they realize
I can exploit the world in a more efficient way
if I just switch my orientation. So if we think
about the typical flower, it's used to kind of in
our minds, we're picturing something yellow or red and the
sun is shining and the pollinators like hummingbirds, are buzzing around.
(05:27):
But everybody else is a red flower all around us,
or a yellow flower whatever. So some flowers thought, you
know what, what if we switch over, it will be
the nighttime flowers. And yeah, we're gonna have maths instead
of butterflies. So we don't care, you know what the
name is as long as of things. So these are
often white flowers or in the case of like suarrow
cacti in the desert southwest, they like bats. So this
(05:51):
cacti that are that have these big, showy white flowers, tubular,
they're producing nectar, same as anything that would attract a hummingbird,
but they're attracting these long nosed bats in the desert
southwest and in northern Mexico, same thing pollinating tequila plants,
by the way, to call it yegatti for tequila, and
so they're getting pollinated, but they are able to get
(06:13):
a really great pollinator because bats are big long distance flyers,
and so you can get your genetic material way the
heck out the one hundreds of miles away. The bats
can do that in part because they're digesting the nectar,
but they can also digest pollen a hummingbird can't do.
Hummingbirds actually have to catch insects to round out their diet.
(06:34):
You know, they're not just drinking from our hummingbird feeders exclusively.
But bats can actually make do the you know, the
pollinating bats can make do just simply off of nectar
and pollen, and that's a satisfactory diet for them. So
they've focused on that instead of doing things that other
bats are doing, catching frogs or catching mosquitoes.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Right, yeah, yeah, so and it's funny too because people
are scared of bats. Bats come out at night. So
it goes full circle to what you said at the beginning,
which you know, human nature just being odd, being weird,
or just the way they're we're wired.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Well, of course we want to be cautious. If I'm
at night and I see something on the trail, is
it a snake or is it a stick? That's a
very healthy response way to respond to the world, but
it's been made about a thousand times worse by this
sort of cultural idea that the darkness is inherently menacing.
That's where the horror films are, that where wolves are,
and almost I don't want to get political, but it
(07:32):
almost extends kind of our racial profiling of you know,
darker things in general should be are the menacing things,
and the whiter, more brightly lit things are kind of this.
You know, Heaven is brightly, that hell is dark. Right
if we think about these sort of extensions, and that's
just robbing us of our heritage. We have every reason
to be happy all the long. First of all, exactly
(07:52):
no reason not to enjoy the nocturnal moth, right, No.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
No, I mean it's funny. I just had this conversation
with somebody about black dog syndrome. Black dogs black cats
are scary. Why they're not scary at all, but people
think they are because the movies. You know, the mean
dog is always the black dog, which is a Rottweiler
or a Doberman. Black cats, Oh, it's bad luck, not true,
so I think it goes. It's all it's all with
(08:16):
the same theme. You know what I mean, it goes
along with what you just said.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
You are so right about that. And in terms of
like you know, I mentioned I have two dogs, and
the husky happens to be what they call sable. I
just call it the white dog. And then my shepherd
mix is pure black. And even when people come over
to my house and they trust me and they know
I'm not going to stick the dog off them, they
like the white dog. You know, the husky is somehow
(08:39):
known or friendly or perceived to be a better product.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Isn't that crazy? It's just so bizarre to me. I mean,
it's just crazy. I just had this conversation and that
we're having it as well. It's just so crazy. But
I think it's also it's gotten drummed into people's heads
from what they see on TV, in the movies, you know,
fantasy stuff, but you know, with a whole like black dog,
(09:06):
black cat syndrome and that. And you're right. And I
was just having this conversation and the person said, yeah,
people are more afraid of black animals than they are
and I was like, but it doesn't make sense. But
like you just said, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
I love what you're bringing up because I never thought
about this, but now every were wolf I've ever seen
is always dark brown or black like, even though real
wolves can be pure white nature, right, lots of wolves
are sort of gray with even a tan undercoat. So
black wolves are the rare ones, but were wolves are
not never can never variegated, right, and I mean not
(09:41):
having their wolf imaginations broad It's true.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Well, it's true. I mean, and think about it. That
were really going off tangent because I want to get
back to your book, but it's just funny, not off
off off the subject. But I'm just that you just
popped in my head talking about wolves. I'm thinking of
member Game of Thrones and the you know, John Snow's
wolves were pure white wolves and they were like the
friendly helper wolves, right right, Yes, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
And that goes into you know, racial relations and how
people even from Southern Europe were devalued historically in North
America compared to Northern Europeans. Yeah, you know, it's all interconnected.
And I don't try to make a big deal out
of this in the book because that gets into sort
of some messy politics. Of course, that is the reality
that we're just as scared of that we're praying to
be afraid of the dark more than.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Is reasonable, right, which is true.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
So we don't want our listeners to go out stepping
on snakes, bad for the snake, for.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
You, bad for you, right exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
But use your flashlights your.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Flash light, yes, and go out and actually to get
you exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
The animals that didn't have with the night or not,
you know, the bats or not. They don't want to
get in your hair. They're not going to give you rabies.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
They're not going to bother you. They just want to
be themselves, right, And that's why your book is so perfect,
discover the hidden world that comes alive after dark. How
long did it take you to put all the research
together for the book? Like, how long did it take
you to write it?
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Once I get my notes together, I can usually work quickly.
I'm kind of different than some of the other writers,
So it might only be a year. So those those
of our listeners who don't earn in the trade, then
it's another two years of production, you know, they have
we have to go through all the photo editing and
copy editing, and then the production. The books are on
you know, on boats coming from China, and you know,
(11:25):
sure and that's good to a warehouse. So I was
working on this years ago, plural, but my writing is
relatively swift.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Mm hmmm. Oh that's pretty good actually. And what number
book is this for you to have written?
Speaker 2 (11:36):
You've written a lot of books I have, I think,
depending how we count a lot of the poetry publications,
this will be a round book. Twenty two ish.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah, that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah, that's yeah. It's like anything in life. If you
do it all your life, it'll your resume will accumulate
by the end of your life.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Well that's true, that's true. And you are not at
the end of your life, so you have plenty more
books in you. I know, when you were doing of
putting this book together, doing the research, was there anything
that you learn that surprised you, something that you didn't realize?
Speaker 2 (12:10):
You know? And again, I'm used to the daytime, I'm
used to listen to the land, and I hadn't appreciated
the largest migration on Earth is actually in the ocean.
So it's not the caribou in Alaska, and it's not
the serengetti will the beast, but trillions and trillions and
trillions of organisms are rising up out of the depths
during the night time to come up to the surface
where the phytoplankton are the little planty things that need
(12:33):
sunlight or a surface. But that's where the predators are.
So during the day, the lesser animals, the zol plankton
and other things, they're down there a thousand feet to
house feet buol the surface and a nice safe darkness.
The light kind of ends around three hundred feet roughly speaking,
and they make a vertical migration to come up to
the surface to feed. Well, that stand means things are
following them, so like squid are coming up to the surface,
(12:54):
and that then means the dolphins are feeding at night.
When we go on a whale watching trip and we
see the happy, splashy dolphins, they're happy and they're splashy,
probably because they've already fad. They're feeding all night long
because they have like a location they don't need daylight
to eat a fish, sure catch a squid, and so
they're up as a surface during the daytime socializing because
(13:15):
that's there. That's their day off, so to speak. Right,
I didn't really appreciate the scale of this is global
in scale, and you know, it's not even seasonal. It
is depending on where we are. Obviously the artic is
a little bit different. But everything is moving up and
down vertically every day of the year. I just found
that fascinating.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
It is no, it is. It's like it's like the
food chain is happening, but it's happening at night because
the blanks about it.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
I have a picture of a dolphin during the day
and it's got these little rosettes of whiteness on its flanks.
This was in Indonesia, and I realized, oh, those are
scars from cookie cutter sharks. So as the animals are
going up and down, there's some sharks hanging around, pretty small,
like a foot and a half long. They've got a circular,
round mouth and they latch onto things quickly, do a
little spin, take a little divid of skin out, and
(14:02):
peel away. These are called cookie cutter sharks, right, And
you can see the scars on dolphins and whales. And
I happened to see a dolphin that was breaching out
of the water and I got a picture like, what
of that? What's this long series of white circles on
this poor animal's flanks? Right? And that's when I realized
oh at night, it's been it's been predated itself as
it was chasing the squid by these sharks.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Wow, and that's fascinating because most people wouldn't know that, right,
How would we know that? They didn't teach us that
in school.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, I got a pretty good picture, you know, for
those of those of you who like to learn through imagery,
which includes me, you know, I like pretty pictures. So
there's actually a pretty good picture of that in the book.
One of the two and forty pictures is of this
leaping dolphin that shows very clearly the shark bites along
its flank.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
The pictures in your book are stunning.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Just so you know, well, you're very kind. I appreciate that.
I'll hear I hold a copy up to the microphone
so that your reader's compete a little bit better.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Well, you know, when I when I make this live,
I will post some of the phone from it because
it's really I really the photos are just they really
are stunning. I mean, I'm right now, I'm looking at
the owl and it starts owls and night jars, Moonlight's
mystery birds. So let's let's talk a little bit. Why
are owls there? The mystery birds at night with the
(15:17):
moonlight especially.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah, and again there's a long cultural history, particularly in
North America. You know, the idea if you see an owl,
then someone's going to die, and that sort of thing.
And you know what, can we say, Folklore can give
us great wisdom but also a lot of boulder dash.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yeah, that's a great word, by the way, boulder dash.
I haven't heard that in a long time. I love it.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Well, we're trying to we keep this show g rated.
We want everybody to feel.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Coming, right, that's true, but we don't have to trail. Yes,
if you find a word you want, you can just
say it. It's okay, but yes, so I'm sorry to
mean to interrupt you. I just love that word, but
go ahead.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
So you know, there are hundreds of species of owls
all the way down to the elf owl that lives
in woodpecker holes and smirow cacti up to the eagle owls,
and they are finding lots and lots of ways to
exploit their environment or fit into their environment. And I
just thought it'd be interesting to show those but also
to have photography that wasn't deer in the headlights. If
we know that express expression. Tell your listeners there ain't
(16:13):
a single deer in a single headlight in that book,
simply because I refuse to allow that kind of photography
to happen. It harasses the animals and it makes a
very garish, lured kind of photograph. So on average, the
flash or the flash units we're using or turned to
a very low setting and often diffused with fashion fashion
model lighting, if that makes sense to do a fashion shoot,
(16:36):
they have these diffusers they use so that wraps the
light around the model. And we brought those same lights
into the rainforest in Nicaragua, for example, and in Peru
in order to photograph owls and bats in a more
i'll say encouraging way or a more welcoming way to
(16:56):
make them seem less fearsome. And that's just a matter
of you know, how do we want to manipulate the
image and try to move the camera around and maybe
move the lighting and say, hey, here's a flattering angle.
This is actually a nice portrait.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
I just found everything amazing, and in fact I just
found the photo on page two fifty, two hundred and
fifty of the rough tooth Dolphin. Yeah, well there you go,
there you go. Yeah, and you can see all the
marks on it. It's it's pretty incredible.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
And that's the tropical species that normally we wouldn't see
in North America. There are a few records for southern California.
But yeah, that picture was in Indonesia on a boat.
Gosh darn it. I had to go to the flight
of Bali and get on a boat. Oh, oh my goodness.
Started this book was so much.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
It was Oh my goodness, you poor thing. Had to
go to Bali. Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I go to Bali and they upgraded my room and
I had to have to stay in a private suite
with my own swimming pool.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Oh my no, poor poor things.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
They kept bringing them to me. It was dreadful being
a naturalists. I just can't believe it.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Oh my god, that's so funny. So yeah, So obviously
this book took you all around the world, right, and
I I mean, I assume you've already been all around
the world, because this is book number twenty two. Was
there any place that you went to for this book
that was the first time.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Sure, Metagascar. Oh my goodness. I've been waiting to go
to Madagascar all my life and I hadn't really appreciated.
You know, we see the daytime lemurs if you've been
to a zoo, if you ringtail lemurs or something, but
most lemurs are actually nocturnal. Many are quite small and
quite cute.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Uh huh, yeah, so I hadn't really.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Again, you know, there's oh now I think we're up
to is our eighty species of but there been le's.
They call it splitting. They've been taking one and making
it into two units. So taxonomically it's very diverse now.
But I didn't appreciate how many lemurs are just only
out at night.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
M Yeah, I never knew that until your book.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
For your listeners, there's a picture of me in Madagascar,
me myself, the author. Because I saw animal number one
thousand in terms of mammals, I'm actually that trip and so.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Yeah, I'm actually flipping to that page so I can
also tell my listeners where they are with that. There
you are one thousand, page two twenty seven, holding number
one thousand. That's great.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah, I thought it might happen. So we made a
sign up in America before we got in the airplane
to fly to Madagascar, and my assistant and I Crossley's
dwarf from Memur and there's a we got a picture
of it. Uh, you know, I don't know what to say, Like,
it was just fun to do, you know, it's like
birdwatching anything else. Lists are fun.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Fun to have a big number.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, and that Lemur is very adorable, by the way.
That's that's the one that's next to you with the
one thousand you got, no very Yeah. So for my
listeners who are like, I'm fascinated, I have to see
these photos. I have to see this book Nature at Night?
Where can they get it?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
I really want to support our local bookstores. If you
have anything that's independent and local, please order it through them.
They need your business, yes, but it's where you live.
The only thing that services you is Amazon. I have
an Amazon account too. I will not look down on you,
right or the publisher itself. Timber has its own website
and you can get the book through Timber as well.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Okay, all right, and what is on what's on the
agenda next for you?
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Well, I'm working on a book about acorns, which it
can turn out to be culturally relevant, but also there's
hundreds and hundreds of species of oaks on the way
that you know, a given oak tree is actually supporting many, many,
hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of insects besides the birds
and the fung guy and the other kind of things
you'd be associated with. It turns out as a much
richer topic than I expected.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Wow, so that will be your next book? And is
it going to be another fast one? You think?
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Well? God willing right?
Speaker 1 (20:30):
All right, well you Charleshood, thank you so much. Thanks
for chatting about your book Nature at Night, and I
look forward to talking to you again, because now I'm
looking forward to and I'm intrigued by your next book
about you know, about the acorns. I think it's probably
going to be just as fascinating. So thank you, thank.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
You, so happy to talk to you. Thank you, Bye
bye
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