October 13, 2025 • 35 mins
Maria chats with Wildlife SOS Executive Director Nikki Sharp about the 300,000+ animals they've saved; the elimination of "dancing bears" in India, the process of eliminating "begging elephants" and more!!
Learn all about the organization, and you can make a donation too at WILDLIFESOS.ORG
Learn all about the organization, and you can make a donation too at WILDLIFESOS.ORG
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Maria's MutS and Stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
What a great idea on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to Maria's Mutts and Stuff, and with me is
Nicky Sharp, who is the executive director of Wildlife sos So. Nikki,
thank you for taking time to talk about your amazing organization.
You've been around since nineteen ninety five. Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yes, the organization got started in India in nineteen ninety five,
but we got our start here in the United States
in two thousand and five.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Okay, but that's still that's twenty years. That's a long time.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
It's still twenty years, and I'll never forget. It changed
my life the day I met the two people who
started the organization in India. They came to Salt Lake
City and at the time, I'm a physical therapist by training,
and I'm taking a break to help them animals. And
with this break, I had an opportunity to go out
(01:04):
to dinner to meet these two people I heard were
doing this phenomenal work in India helping bears. I was
just so intrigued, and I went out to dinner with
them and they told me this story about what they
were doing to help dancing bears. And I never heard
of dancing bears before. I think I heard a lot
of horror stories about animals whenever dancing bears. Sure, and
(01:29):
they over dinner. You can have these conversations and they
can be depressing, sure, but you can have them and
find yourself feeling uplifted at the end because what they
were talking about how a solution. And I was so
inspired by the fact that they were going to end
something that had been going on for hundreds of years,
(01:51):
and they said they were going to do it by
twenty ten. So by the end of the conversation, I said, well,
what can I do to help and today? And not
only did they end that problem by twenty ten, they
did it in two thousand and nine. Something that had
gone for four hundreds for centuries, they brought an end
(02:12):
to in less than ten years. So I was very inspired,
and I know I've changed my life to try to
help because I see that what they have done in India,
they've been able to make incredible changes. And with a
little bit more support, I thought we could help them
make things happen even faster.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Sure, and for those who are listening, never they're not
familiar explain with dancing bears.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
What that means.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Oh yes, So if you're in the United States, you
would not have seen a dancing bear unless you were
visiting India. And basically what that is is a bear
would be taken as a cub from the wild and
they would have their muzzle piers and they put a
rope through the muzzle and they would pull up on
(03:00):
that rope and that there would be in so much
pain that the bear would stand on its time legs
and the movement that it generated, they would call it
a dance. And they called those bears dancing bears. And
there were hundreds of bears like that in two thousand
and five, I think they did. I think they did
a census of over a thousand bears were on the street.
(03:22):
So the problem was pretty it is pretty ingrained. And
if you visit India today you will not see a
dancing bear.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
It's amazing, right, and congratulations on.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
That, Yeah, absolutely amazing. It really is a testament see
tough things, tough, tough, bold projects can be successful. Yes,
and even if they've been ingrained for hundreds of years.
So I find it that very just inspiring about other
tough things that we can tackle.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure, and I mean it's like,
kudos to the organization. And I know that the organization
helps so many animals besides bears, and I know tigers
and elephants, so I know it's like so many it's
really incredible.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So right now, our focus is since
we've been able to tackle the their problem. You really,
although we work on a lot of different issues, our
main focus these days are on helping Asian elephants in India.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yes, and let's talk about that, because just like dancing bears,
there's the practice of begging elephants, So yeah, explain that one.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yes, Well, in order to explain begging elephants, because I
think it's another it's another problem that unless you've been
to India, it's hard to get a picture of what
exactly a begging elephant is. So let me give this
a little bit of background information. A begging elephant is
a type of captive elephants, and all captive elephants that
you see in India were taken from the wild. They
(04:58):
were not bred and kept. So every elephant if you
see it giving a tourist ride, if you see the
elephant in a zoos or a temple. That elephant was
born in the wild. So the elephants are born in
the wild and then they are taken and they're put
in a crush and they go through a process called
(05:19):
Fijean which is breaking their spirit. And once their spirit
is broken, they are moved into different areas that are
different types of captivity. And you just can imagine what
it takes to break the spirit of an elephant, an
elephant that can be ten thousand pounds, so that one
hundred to two hundred pound person.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Can control it. So awful.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Awful, Yeah, it's absolutely awes it's awful.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
And elephants are very smart too. They're very smart animal. Yeah,
and social, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
And social. And I do find that when you talk
to children, even it doesn't matter where they are, everybody
is intrigued by elephants. They know what they are at
a very young age. And there's reasons for it. I mean,
they're very very family oriented, they're very intelligent, great problem solving.
(06:17):
So these elephants that are called bagging elephants, they are
owned by people who then rent them out for different purposes.
So a lot of times you'll see them being used
in a wedding but this specific group of elephants that
we're now trying to help. Specifically, they're a unique group
because they're usually on the streets and so a lot
(06:40):
of these elephants end up with injuries to them because
they've been hit by cars. So you think about a
gray elephant on the streets at night, nobody's going to
see that. Yeah, And so they're moving, they get hit
by vehicles, and they're walking in chains, and they're stepping
on glass, and they're stepping on nails, and their feet
(07:02):
are just infected. So this is a group of elephants
that we feel, just like the dancing bears, that we
can bring an end to because nobody really necessarily like
supportive of this. And so we've started a campaign to
help these elephants. And I think a lot of people
(07:25):
may have heard of one particular elephant that sort of
brought this whole problem to light. He became famous Raju.
He was an elephant that cried when we rescued him
ten years ago. And I think the most people have
never heard of this problem. And then to see pictures
of an elephant that had been in chain for fifty years,
(07:47):
have those chains cut off and the tears that came
down his face.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Wow, I think.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Touched really touched a chord for so many people around
the world.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Sure, sure, I mean, how could it not, you know, yeah,
how could it not?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Yeah, we're focused right now on these particular elephants. We
have over the last ten years rescued over fifty elephants
that would be mostly described as being dagging elephants. But
we've become experts and what these elephants need, where to
find them, how to help them, and how to help
the people too. When we worked with the Dancing Bears,
(08:25):
it was a lot of the work was working with
the people to give up the bears and get them
to start a new life. We didn't just go take
the bears.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Sure. So there's a.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Lot of programs that we need to run that are
implemented to address different parts of this particular problem.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Sure. Sure.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
And as you said, the fact that I mean, how
I'm sure it's like a whole network that you find
out where these elephants are.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yes, yes, And it's hard because they're always on the
move since they're being rented out to different places. We'll
get word that there's an elephant in distress in this
one part of India, and we'll send in people to
go check it out, and that elephant will be gone
and disappear. Sure, And so it can be very difficult
(09:16):
to track these elephants because they're here one day, gone
the next, and they move through the villages and so,
and a lot of them are illegally owned, so they're
doing whatever they can to keep them hidden because they
are illegally owned. The likelihood that if we get the
government involved, that they'll seize the elephant and send them
(09:37):
to us as high. And when people buy elephants, they
spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on these elephants. Wow,
so to lose one through a confiscation is for the
owner to quote unquote, to lose a lot of money.
So it could be tough to track.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Yeah, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
I mean, I feel like it's almost it's not the same,
but it's similar to what do we have, like those
those little like street zoos, the illegal ones right around
here in the States. I feel like it's the same
type of thing.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah, yeah, it's the same type of thing. But a
lot of times we get called in on chases where
an elephant has collapsed. I can imagine when I talk
about the lives that they lead. They're isolated, they're lonely,
they're on the streets, they're in chains, and they collapse.
And so we'll be called in to come in and
(10:28):
help the elephant that's collapsed on some highway somewhere. And
one of our most recent rescues, his name is Manu,
and he had collapsed. He was he was down, and
we got a call, please come help this elephant. Well,
when you go and you see an elephant that's collapsed,
(10:48):
every minute counts because they're so heavy that lying on
their side can can suffocate them. The weight of their
body on their lungs. So it's really a race against
time if they're collapsed to try to get them on
their feet again. So we sent the team in, and
of course we're always on the edge of our seat going,
(11:09):
oh gosh, I hope they get there in time. I
hope they get there in time. And Formanu they arrived.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
It did not.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Seem likely that we'd be able to help him, but
we pulled in the crane and we got him to stand.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Wow, and the amount like.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
If you can get them to stand, then it's like, okay,
we've gotten through that first hurdle, right, so we would
stand him, we would lay him down again, and then
we'd stand him and kept building his strength. And then
the next big obstacle is like, Okay, he's standing, but
can we get him to our facility Because to get
(11:48):
from A to B you have to be able to
be in an ambulance and in our ambulance standing upright
for the whole duration. Right, And if an ambulance is
car an elephant and the elephant collapses in the in
the ambulance, you can tip the whole vehicle. Sure, you
have to be really, really confident that that animal will
(12:09):
be able to withstand the journey right. Right, So we
were able to go in and help Manu and get
him standing and work on his strength and get him
on the ambulance and when he stood for three days
to get back to our facility where he now is today.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
But that's one of the types of rescues that we do.
But he was a begging elephant just out there, and
that's how we were able to help him. Was he
almost reached that line of between life and death. Sure
to get him before he crossed it. And he's been
a very happy elephant.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Oh, I'm sure I was going to say that.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
I was going to ask you to tell us a
little bit about what he's how he is today.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
I'm sure he is happy. But where where is he today?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
So we have an elephant rescue center that is right
outside of agra an Agrith where the taj Ma Hall is.
So if you don't know much about Indy, you might
have heard about the Tasha. So our facility is about
a thirty mile distance but an hour drive from the
taj mahll. And that is where he is today. And
(13:23):
at this facility he is learning how to be an elephant.
For thirty to forty years, he was a begging elephant
by himself in chains, never had anybody care about what
he wanted in his life. But now he has choices.
Choose to go into a pool and splash around, he
(13:43):
can go for walks, he can choose what he wants
to eat when he wants to eat, and so he
has a life where he's learning to be an elephant
and done with us now six months and it's just
it's a remarkable. I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
And I was going to say, and I'm sure, physically right,
we can you could see the difference in him physically.
I mean not just by how he moves, but I
would assume like people, their skin is different or their
eyes are different.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Right, Because yes, yes, you're absolutely right. There are so
many changes with him. Some of them are obvious changes
that you'd be looking for. Like he had a lot
of wounds on his legs just from being changed. Sure,
so he has now the ability to let those wounds heal,
and so that is healing up. His putting on body weight,
(14:43):
but not just like fat, but he's putting on muscle
because we're able to move sure.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Actually wow.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
And the other thing they are not able to do
a lot of times when they're in captivity or a
begging elephant is when they get changed, they chain them
standing up and often stretched so they can can't lie down.
So one of the first things they do when they
arrive at our center is they lie down. And some
of them struggle with being able to lie all the
(15:10):
way down. So we create like these big mounds where
they can lie halfway down. And so being able just
to get normal rest is just the game changer for them.
So they're able to get the weight off their feet,
they're able to rest their joints, and that alone has
remarkable rehabilitation benefits for the elephant. Sure, so it's hard
(15:37):
to even We love to put out these pictures that
show before and after, like before they are rescued. This
is what your gift did, because you know, we can't
do this without people supporting us. Of course, just show
people the difference that we can make when we work together.
It's just it's so rewarding.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
I'm sure it's rewarding for me to hear about it.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
So I can only imagine for you you're doing it,
you know, like I'm on the outside looking in, and
I'm like grinny, I'm so happy hearing this story, So
I can only imagine.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
And it's great to see them making friends. Yeah, you
know where people care about them. Now. He's a bull,
so a lot of even in nature, bulls tend not
to hert together like the females do. But he's he's
really he gets along really great with his veterinarians and
his caregivers who dote on him. And he's blind, so
(16:38):
he really relies on them. Oh, sure able to help
him when he goes out for walks, to show him
the way and help them find a safe, wow, safe
place to walk. And so it's it's the learning of
trusty and learning to just yeah, to just trust that
you're not going to be in pain and you're not
(16:59):
going to be hurt.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Right, and that not all humans are bad. Theres yeah
are bad, exactly exactly. It's wonderful, I'm sure. I mean
for me, it feels very similar.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Like they always say, when you rescue, you know, you
go to a shelter or rescue group and you rescue
a dog or a cat, there's always a different bond
because that animal knows that you rescued it. And I
feel like that's probably the same with any animal.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
You know, absolutely absolutely. I was thinking about that earlier today,
is that when when our team arrives to rescue them,
a lot of them have never been on a truck before.
So there's got to be something different like that the
elephant understands in order to all of a sudden be
willing to get on a truck sure and trust these
(17:46):
strange people that have come. So there's something different. We're
offering them fruit, we're giving them gestures, gifts to say, hey,
please give us a chance, and they seem to know
instinctively that something different here, right, and it's without that
it's harder to rescue them.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Yeah, because it's not like, you know, it's not like
the elephant is watching television and sees a truck and
an animal go on a truck. You know, it's like
sometimes humans are like, oh, yeah, of course the elephant
would know what's going on.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
No, it doesn't know that it's not familiar.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Exactly exactly, exactly exactly. So there's there's every Every rescue
is different and everyone has its challenges because every elephant
is an individual.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Sure, but we've.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Gone through it, like I said, over fifty times and
everyone is an incredible victory and we learn a little
bit something new each time that makes us better at
what we do. Right, So I feel like we're in
a really good position to really help all these begging
elephants that really need our help in India.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
And I guess obviously the goal is to have it
gone at some point the whole process of that.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yes, yes, our goal actually I'm glad you brought up
brought it up, is to have all the begging elephants
off the streets by twenty thirty.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Oh okay, So.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
That's suck five years. Once again, it's a bold goal,
it's a good one. We have a plan, so it's
more than just it's just more than just a goal.
We have a plan of how to achieve it, and
we're going to be very tenacious about that plan. We're
going to we're gonna stick to it, and we're going
to involve others because you can't do this alone. Of course,
(19:36):
I do believe it's one that I that we're seeing
people get behind right, and they're excited by it, and
so I think twenty thirty will be a realistic time frame.
Sure we'll see no more begging elephants in India.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Oh, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
And also the fact that that's how you came on
board with the goal with the Bears, right you said
twenty ten.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
They did it the year before, so it's probably you know, I.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Don't think from what I know of your organization, I
don't think they would come up with a year just like, hey,
let's think of a year like you know what I mean,
like exactly not to use the term, but exactly exactly,
like you know, your ducks so to speak, are in
order in order to.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Put out that year.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
So that's really cool though, that's really I mean, that's
very cool. Yeah and exciting.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Yeah, well, it's it's very exciting. And in order to
achieve these you have we've we've already the organization has
got partners with the government, so we have so much
you need to have so many in terms of networking,
can make it happen to get all these different entities
on board. And we've been building hospitals for these elephants,
(20:48):
so our facility is growing in the expectation that will
be you know, caring for a lot more elephants right
in the future. So so anyways, I've been keeping trying
the numbers. We just started this year, and I am
already seeing a reduction of about five to ten percent.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Wow, that's great.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Stay on track. We'll need to hit like twenty percent
reduction every year.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
So wow, No, that's great.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
No, but definitely, I mean, you have goals and I
feel like you achieved them and then they happen. So
I mean, that's really there's a lot to be said
for that that. You know, obviously you do have a well,
it's like it takes a village. You have many different
aspects and people who are helping but you meet your goals,
which is you know, it's incredible.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yes, absolutely, So we'll tackle this problem and then once
we solve the problem within the begging elephants, we'll move
on to the next group of elephants that need our.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Help, right right.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I was going to say, I was just going to
ask you that, so after the begging elephants, but that
was that will be obviously that's your focus, like for
the next five years.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
That is our focus with the elephant campaign, right right.
But it's important because in order to achieve this goal,
we need to ensure that new elephants are not replacing
the elephants that we're saving, right, So it's not just
about saving elephants, it's about preventing new elephants from entering
the system. So we do have a component that is
(22:13):
anti proaching, anti trafficking, and really protecting the elephants and
the wild sure, so it all works together. So we
often say that in order to help the wild elephants,
which we want to do, we also have to help
the captive elephants because these two issues are very much connected.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Yeah, no, for sure.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
So I mean this is kind of a silly question,
but when you go and you rescue an elephant, the
person who owned it or the people, do they do
they apologize? Do they say do they say ignorance? Like, oh,
we didn't know.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
It's everyone is different.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
So I can't give a blanket answer, but I can
tell you this it is. It is an industry where
a lot of money is involved. So whenever you have
a lot of money involved, it makes it even sometimes
more complicated to tackle it. And because people who own
(23:18):
elephants in India are seen to have prestige, because elephants
are considered gods Ganesh the god that it makes it
even harder to confiscate an elephant because you're confiscating a god.
So sometimes like with our our rescues, we had one
(23:40):
recently with Hari. He's our most recent rescue where hundreds
and hundreds of people turned out to protest are rescuing
this particular elephant because we were taking away the god
that was in the village. It was very much seemed
that way. So there can be a lot of fights
(24:02):
to prevent us from taking the elephants. And it can
either come from the owner or it can come from
the community. And that's why we often need to have
law enforcement evolved and we have the Force department involved.
But in India though, right now, it is illegal to
buy and sell an elephant. So that's a lot of times.
How we are able to go in and get these
(24:25):
elephants is if we can show that that elephant was
illegally obtained. And that's something where the government needs to
get again because we can't just personally go in and
take an elephants.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Of course, a.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Lot of bureaucracy, right right.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Elephants, sure, But the fact, yeah, I mean the fact
is that must be like a recent law. I would
assume it's I would say it's a law.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
India has a really fantastic wildlife law that goes back
to nineteen seventy two. It's the and with this, like
there's no hunting in India, there's a lot of protection
to prevent wild animals from like being in circuses. Right,
we don't have lions and even things like if you
(25:17):
you can do a search of someone's property if you
believe that they have like animals being kept there, you
don't need a waker or warrant.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Does they have.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Unique laws that do you protect wildlife in India? And
because of these laws, you see things like tiger populations increasing,
So there's there's really I believe there's a culture for
wanting to protect the wildlife. But the problem is is
that it always comes down to enforcements.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Right of course, so.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Buying an elephant might be illegal, but enforcing the law
is where things become problematic. So if we can confiscate.
Before confiscating an elephant was hard if you had no
place to put them, right, elephants illegally held. But now
that we have facilities, the government can go and confiscate
the elephant and know that they have a place that
(26:06):
they can put them. So it sends a message out
to the wider public. You know, if you if you
get an elephant illegally, there's a strong likelihood that elephant
could be confiscated, sure, taken from.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
You, right right, and maybe people get fined for it
or something since they're breaking the law.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yes, oh yes, I I there
are several people who have gone to jail, and we
do ensure and we work with the government to do
prosecutions when we can to to send that message that
we're just talking about, which is so important. Sure that
these are crimes that will be seriously prosecuted if you
(26:45):
engage in them.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Yeah. Yeah, so this way they won't repeat it, you.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Know, that way they won't repeat it, or other people
won't think it's a good idea.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
It's a good idea. Yeah, yeah, no, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
No, I mean I think it's it's fascinating and like
you said, how reward it is that you're saving these
elephants and you have this goal. And I mean, and
I was reading on your website and tell me if
this these are accurate, because it's probably more at this point,
but three hundred thousand plus animals have been saved. This
I thought was really kind of a cool thing because
(27:17):
you know, knowledge is power. But fifteen thousand, over fifteen
thousand kids have been educated, and I think that's really
key for this to be not happening down the road.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yes, So that all started with the dancing bear pain
where we talked about it earlier in the conversation, how
there had been hundreds of years of people dancing bear
so kids would learn from their fathers that this is
what you do and went on for generation and generation.
So what do you do to stop that cycle? So
(27:51):
for us, it was understanding that these kids need to
go to school, and they need to have other dreams.
They need to learn that they can have their professions
and other vocations. So it wasn't about just taking the
bear away, was creating programs that gave these children hope.
And so when that last bear was rescued in two
(28:13):
thousand and nine, that was a dancing bear, we didn't
stop the education programs for the kids because we did
not We realized that we needed to go at least
a generation where the kids did not see dancing bears,
and it would be just as born to them to
start dancing bears as it would be for a child
in America. So now a child that was born in
(28:36):
two thousand and nine when the last bear was taken
would be fifteen sixteen years old now and they would
never have seen a dancing bear. So they will never
go to that way of earning a livelihood. And so
this group of people, they now they have new vocations,
they have their economy. The ones who aren't dancing bears,
(28:57):
which is all of them, they're bringing in more money
and they they're just so much healthier in the communities.
And it's been a really, really fantastic I think example
of how to successfully run campaigns where you don't always
just make the people the enemy. When you want to
(29:18):
help animals, you bring the people along and you help
them to be part of the solution.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Yeah, it doesn't get easier than that in a sense,
you know.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
I mean, that makes sense. It makes so much sense,
right right.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
So women empowerment, helping the children, it all goes together,
helping people to have other vocations. So I do think,
you know, when we look at some of the bigger
problems happening, and this includes elephants too, we have taken
people who had been abusive towards elephants and we've brought
them to our center and we've retrained them on how
(29:53):
to compassionately and humanly work and care for elephants. Wow,
a lot of these men there, always men. They're called
the hoops in India. We have their stories, we have
movies about them, and they talk about the regret that
they have when they use pain and fear to control
(30:15):
an elephant. And now they know they don't have to
do that, and they see the elephants they work with
as family members. So even if people who are who
are much older can relearn, sure they've been taught for
their whole life, and so we have examples of that,
and it definitely gives me hope that we can achieve
(30:36):
beyond just helping the begging elephants, that if you look
thirty forty years in the future, you just won't see
captive elephants abused in India.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
No, that's wonderful because I guess we said knowledge is power, right,
and people did stuff out of ignorance, no fault of
theirs because they didn't know better.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
But now you've created that they know.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Better exactly, exactly, and there's so many examples of it.
And and I'm so proud to be associated with an
organization that realizes that and gives people a second chance to.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Sure, sure, No, it's true, because everybody deserves a second chance.
And it sounds like people. You put people back on
the right track.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Yes exactly, Yeah, by exactly by educating them exact and
they don't. They take that education and they share it
with their communities too. It just continues to spread out.
And we've done the same thing with snake charmers too.
People often don't really think about how snakes suffer, but
(31:36):
snakes that are part of snake charming. They're they're they're
in terrible situations. And what we've done is we've been
able to get these guys off the street to by
having them help us rescue snakes that need rescuing. In Delhi,
you have core kitchens and air conditioners and you will
call can you come get this cobra out of my
(31:59):
my kitchen? Right?
Speaker 3 (32:02):
It's not paying rent, I want it out of my kitchen.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Right.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
It's very very different kind of problems that they have
in India. Sure, but we have these guys who are
you know, they were snakes, but now they use their
skill of handling snakes to help the animal and help
people at the same time.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Wow, it's fascinating, and you're right.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
People probably wouldn't think about snake charming, you know, as
a as a problem or a thing, but of course
it is.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
You know, it's not supposed to be doing what he
was making it do.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Wow, right right? Well yeah, I mean they have their fangs, yeah,
chopped off and their mouths shut so and shut, so.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
They yeah, yeah, they're not supposed to. Yeah, that's terrible,
completely inhumane exactly. So that's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
I feel like I could talk to you for a day,
all the different stories that you have. It's like, Yeah,
it's fascinating, it really is. And I mean I will
assume that wildlife so us you have a huge staff.
I feel like you have to have so many people.
I know you said it helps with like local law
enforcement and government, but your staff itself has to be
(33:11):
pretty large.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
In India, we have over four hundred people and the
vast majority of them are taking care of animals. So
we have those who work with the elephants, those who
care for the bears, because we still have a lot
of bears. You're caring for those who care. We have
a leopard program as well. So the vast majority of
our team is doing caring for the animals, vets and caregivers.
(33:36):
But we do have a lot of people to who
do wildlife work, really working to protect the wildlife in
their natural environments. And so we're all over the country
working from Kashmir to which is north North India, to
Carnatica which is South India.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Wow, And I would assume you survive by donations, grants,
but mostly donations from people.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yeah. So we are an organization that I would say
is eighty to ninety percent of all of our support
comes from individuals. Okay, individual donations is really where we
are able to make a difference.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Yes, So for those who are listening and you're fascinated
by Nicki's stories as I am, you could go to
Wildlife SOS dot org. You can find out all the
information about the organization as well as make a donation
because I'm sure one of these stories touched your heart
in some way. So it's Wildlife SOS dot org.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
So Nicki, I love talking to you.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
I definitely want to talk to you again, updated on
what's going on at some point, and I'm sure you'll
have even more stories because I really do mean that
I could just sit here and listen to you telling
me these stories.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
We you know fully if you ever come to India too,
we'd love to have you meet some of the hours
that I've been telling you about today.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
Oh my goodness, I would love that. Wow. I might
hold you to that. You know that you're probably gonna
be sorry that you put that out there.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
No, not at all, not at all, love for you
to come.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Well, Nikki Sharp, executive director at Wildlife SOS, thank you
for all of that.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
You're doing and that you continue to do.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
And thank you for sharing all of your knowledge and
information with us and again for those who are listening.
If you feel so, I'm sure you feel inclined to
help Wildlife SOS dot org.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Thanks Nikki, thank you, thank you so much for having
me on your show,
It's Maria's MutS and Stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
What a great idea on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to Maria's Mutts and Stuff, and with me is
Nicky Sharp, who is the executive director of Wildlife sos So. Nikki,
thank you for taking time to talk about your amazing organization.
You've been around since nineteen ninety five. Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yes, the organization got started in India in nineteen ninety five,
but we got our start here in the United States
in two thousand and five.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Okay, but that's still that's twenty years. That's a long time.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
It's still twenty years, and I'll never forget. It changed
my life the day I met the two people who
started the organization in India. They came to Salt Lake
City and at the time, I'm a physical therapist by training,
and I'm taking a break to help them animals. And
with this break, I had an opportunity to go out
(01:04):
to dinner to meet these two people I heard were
doing this phenomenal work in India helping bears. I was
just so intrigued, and I went out to dinner with
them and they told me this story about what they
were doing to help dancing bears. And I never heard
of dancing bears before. I think I heard a lot
of horror stories about animals whenever dancing bears. Sure, and
(01:29):
they over dinner. You can have these conversations and they
can be depressing, sure, but you can have them and
find yourself feeling uplifted at the end because what they
were talking about how a solution. And I was so
inspired by the fact that they were going to end
something that had been going on for hundreds of years,
(01:51):
and they said they were going to do it by
twenty ten. So by the end of the conversation, I said, well,
what can I do to help and today? And not
only did they end that problem by twenty ten, they
did it in two thousand and nine. Something that had
gone for four hundreds for centuries, they brought an end
(02:12):
to in less than ten years. So I was very inspired,
and I know I've changed my life to try to
help because I see that what they have done in India,
they've been able to make incredible changes. And with a
little bit more support, I thought we could help them
make things happen even faster.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Sure, and for those who are listening, never they're not
familiar explain with dancing bears.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
What that means.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Oh yes, So if you're in the United States, you
would not have seen a dancing bear unless you were
visiting India. And basically what that is is a bear
would be taken as a cub from the wild and
they would have their muzzle piers and they put a
rope through the muzzle and they would pull up on
(03:00):
that rope and that there would be in so much
pain that the bear would stand on its time legs
and the movement that it generated, they would call it
a dance. And they called those bears dancing bears. And
there were hundreds of bears like that in two thousand
and five, I think they did. I think they did
a census of over a thousand bears were on the street.
(03:22):
So the problem was pretty it is pretty ingrained. And
if you visit India today you will not see a
dancing bear.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
It's amazing, right, and congratulations on.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
That, Yeah, absolutely amazing. It really is a testament see
tough things, tough, tough, bold projects can be successful. Yes,
and even if they've been ingrained for hundreds of years.
So I find it that very just inspiring about other
tough things that we can tackle.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure, and I mean it's like,
kudos to the organization. And I know that the organization
helps so many animals besides bears, and I know tigers
and elephants, so I know it's like so many it's
really incredible.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So right now, our focus is since
we've been able to tackle the their problem. You really,
although we work on a lot of different issues, our
main focus these days are on helping Asian elephants in India.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yes, and let's talk about that, because just like dancing bears,
there's the practice of begging elephants, So yeah, explain that one.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yes, Well, in order to explain begging elephants, because I
think it's another it's another problem that unless you've been
to India, it's hard to get a picture of what
exactly a begging elephant is. So let me give this
a little bit of background information. A begging elephant is
a type of captive elephants, and all captive elephants that
you see in India were taken from the wild. They
(04:58):
were not bred and kept. So every elephant if you
see it giving a tourist ride, if you see the
elephant in a zoos or a temple. That elephant was
born in the wild. So the elephants are born in
the wild and then they are taken and they're put
in a crush and they go through a process called
(05:19):
Fijean which is breaking their spirit. And once their spirit
is broken, they are moved into different areas that are
different types of captivity. And you just can imagine what
it takes to break the spirit of an elephant, an
elephant that can be ten thousand pounds, so that one
hundred to two hundred pound person.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Can control it. So awful.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Awful, Yeah, it's absolutely awes it's awful.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
And elephants are very smart too. They're very smart animal. Yeah,
and social, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
And social. And I do find that when you talk
to children, even it doesn't matter where they are, everybody
is intrigued by elephants. They know what they are at
a very young age. And there's reasons for it. I mean,
they're very very family oriented, they're very intelligent, great problem solving.
(06:17):
So these elephants that are called bagging elephants, they are
owned by people who then rent them out for different purposes.
So a lot of times you'll see them being used
in a wedding but this specific group of elephants that
we're now trying to help. Specifically, they're a unique group
because they're usually on the streets and so a lot
(06:40):
of these elephants end up with injuries to them because
they've been hit by cars. So you think about a
gray elephant on the streets at night, nobody's going to
see that. Yeah, And so they're moving, they get hit
by vehicles, and they're walking in chains, and they're stepping
on glass, and they're stepping on nails, and their feet
(07:02):
are just infected. So this is a group of elephants
that we feel, just like the dancing bears, that we
can bring an end to because nobody really necessarily like
supportive of this. And so we've started a campaign to
help these elephants. And I think a lot of people
(07:25):
may have heard of one particular elephant that sort of
brought this whole problem to light. He became famous Raju.
He was an elephant that cried when we rescued him
ten years ago. And I think the most people have
never heard of this problem. And then to see pictures
of an elephant that had been in chain for fifty years,
(07:47):
have those chains cut off and the tears that came
down his face.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Wow, I think.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Touched really touched a chord for so many people around
the world.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Sure, sure, I mean, how could it not, you know, yeah,
how could it not?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Yeah, we're focused right now on these particular elephants. We
have over the last ten years rescued over fifty elephants
that would be mostly described as being dagging elephants. But
we've become experts and what these elephants need, where to
find them, how to help them, and how to help
the people too. When we worked with the Dancing Bears,
(08:25):
it was a lot of the work was working with
the people to give up the bears and get them
to start a new life. We didn't just go take
the bears.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Sure. So there's a.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Lot of programs that we need to run that are
implemented to address different parts of this particular problem.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Sure. Sure.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
And as you said, the fact that I mean, how
I'm sure it's like a whole network that you find
out where these elephants are.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yes, yes, And it's hard because they're always on the
move since they're being rented out to different places. We'll
get word that there's an elephant in distress in this
one part of India, and we'll send in people to
go check it out, and that elephant will be gone
and disappear. Sure, And so it can be very difficult
(09:16):
to track these elephants because they're here one day, gone
the next, and they move through the villages and so,
and a lot of them are illegally owned, so they're
doing whatever they can to keep them hidden because they
are illegally owned. The likelihood that if we get the
government involved, that they'll seize the elephant and send them
(09:37):
to us as high. And when people buy elephants, they
spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on these elephants. Wow,
so to lose one through a confiscation is for the
owner to quote unquote, to lose a lot of money.
So it could be tough to track.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Yeah, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
I mean, I feel like it's almost it's not the same,
but it's similar to what do we have, like those
those little like street zoos, the illegal ones right around
here in the States. I feel like it's the same
type of thing.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah, yeah, it's the same type of thing. But a
lot of times we get called in on chases where
an elephant has collapsed. I can imagine when I talk
about the lives that they lead. They're isolated, they're lonely,
they're on the streets, they're in chains, and they collapse.
And so we'll be called in to come in and
(10:28):
help the elephant that's collapsed on some highway somewhere. And
one of our most recent rescues, his name is Manu,
and he had collapsed. He was he was down, and
we got a call, please come help this elephant. Well,
when you go and you see an elephant that's collapsed,
(10:48):
every minute counts because they're so heavy that lying on
their side can can suffocate them. The weight of their
body on their lungs. So it's really a race against
time if they're collapsed to try to get them on
their feet again. So we sent the team in, and
of course we're always on the edge of our seat going,
(11:09):
oh gosh, I hope they get there in time. I
hope they get there in time. And Formanu they arrived.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
It did not.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Seem likely that we'd be able to help him, but
we pulled in the crane and we got him to stand.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Wow, and the amount like.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
If you can get them to stand, then it's like, okay,
we've gotten through that first hurdle, right, so we would
stand him, we would lay him down again, and then
we'd stand him and kept building his strength. And then
the next big obstacle is like, Okay, he's standing, but
can we get him to our facility Because to get
(11:48):
from A to B you have to be able to
be in an ambulance and in our ambulance standing upright
for the whole duration. Right, And if an ambulance is
car an elephant and the elephant collapses in the in
the ambulance, you can tip the whole vehicle. Sure, you
have to be really, really confident that that animal will
(12:09):
be able to withstand the journey right. Right, So we
were able to go in and help Manu and get
him standing and work on his strength and get him
on the ambulance and when he stood for three days
to get back to our facility where he now is today.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
But that's one of the types of rescues that we do.
But he was a begging elephant just out there, and
that's how we were able to help him. Was he
almost reached that line of between life and death. Sure
to get him before he crossed it. And he's been
a very happy elephant.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Oh, I'm sure I was going to say that.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
I was going to ask you to tell us a
little bit about what he's how he is today.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
I'm sure he is happy. But where where is he today?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
So we have an elephant rescue center that is right
outside of agra an Agrith where the taj Ma Hall is.
So if you don't know much about Indy, you might
have heard about the Tasha. So our facility is about
a thirty mile distance but an hour drive from the
taj mahll. And that is where he is today. And
(13:23):
at this facility he is learning how to be an elephant.
For thirty to forty years, he was a begging elephant
by himself in chains, never had anybody care about what
he wanted in his life. But now he has choices.
Choose to go into a pool and splash around, he
(13:43):
can go for walks, he can choose what he wants
to eat when he wants to eat, and so he
has a life where he's learning to be an elephant
and done with us now six months and it's just
it's a remarkable. I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
And I was going to say, and I'm sure, physically right,
we can you could see the difference in him physically.
I mean not just by how he moves, but I
would assume like people, their skin is different or their
eyes are different.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Right, Because yes, yes, you're absolutely right. There are so
many changes with him. Some of them are obvious changes
that you'd be looking for. Like he had a lot
of wounds on his legs just from being changed. Sure,
so he has now the ability to let those wounds heal,
and so that is healing up. His putting on body weight,
(14:43):
but not just like fat, but he's putting on muscle
because we're able to move sure.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Actually wow.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
And the other thing they are not able to do
a lot of times when they're in captivity or a
begging elephant is when they get changed, they chain them
standing up and often stretched so they can can't lie down.
So one of the first things they do when they
arrive at our center is they lie down. And some
of them struggle with being able to lie all the
(15:10):
way down. So we create like these big mounds where
they can lie halfway down. And so being able just
to get normal rest is just the game changer for them.
So they're able to get the weight off their feet,
they're able to rest their joints, and that alone has
remarkable rehabilitation benefits for the elephant. Sure, so it's hard
(15:37):
to even We love to put out these pictures that
show before and after, like before they are rescued. This
is what your gift did, because you know, we can't
do this without people supporting us. Of course, just show
people the difference that we can make when we work together.
It's just it's so rewarding.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
I'm sure it's rewarding for me to hear about it.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
So I can only imagine for you you're doing it,
you know, like I'm on the outside looking in, and
I'm like grinny, I'm so happy hearing this story, So
I can only imagine.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
And it's great to see them making friends. Yeah, you
know where people care about them. Now. He's a bull,
so a lot of even in nature, bulls tend not
to hert together like the females do. But he's he's
really he gets along really great with his veterinarians and
his caregivers who dote on him. And he's blind, so
(16:38):
he really relies on them. Oh, sure able to help
him when he goes out for walks, to show him
the way and help them find a safe, wow, safe
place to walk. And so it's it's the learning of
trusty and learning to just yeah, to just trust that
you're not going to be in pain and you're not
(16:59):
going to be hurt.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Right, and that not all humans are bad. Theres yeah
are bad, exactly exactly. It's wonderful, I'm sure. I mean
for me, it feels very similar.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Like they always say, when you rescue, you know, you
go to a shelter or rescue group and you rescue
a dog or a cat, there's always a different bond
because that animal knows that you rescued it. And I
feel like that's probably the same with any animal.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
You know, absolutely absolutely. I was thinking about that earlier today,
is that when when our team arrives to rescue them,
a lot of them have never been on a truck before.
So there's got to be something different like that the
elephant understands in order to all of a sudden be
willing to get on a truck sure and trust these
(17:46):
strange people that have come. So there's something different. We're
offering them fruit, we're giving them gestures, gifts to say, hey,
please give us a chance, and they seem to know
instinctively that something different here, right, and it's without that
it's harder to rescue them.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Yeah, because it's not like, you know, it's not like
the elephant is watching television and sees a truck and
an animal go on a truck. You know, it's like
sometimes humans are like, oh, yeah, of course the elephant
would know what's going on.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
No, it doesn't know that it's not familiar.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Exactly exactly, exactly exactly. So there's there's every Every rescue
is different and everyone has its challenges because every elephant
is an individual.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Sure, but we've.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Gone through it, like I said, over fifty times and
everyone is an incredible victory and we learn a little
bit something new each time that makes us better at
what we do. Right, So I feel like we're in
a really good position to really help all these begging
elephants that really need our help in India.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
And I guess obviously the goal is to have it
gone at some point the whole process of that.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yes, yes, our goal actually I'm glad you brought up
brought it up, is to have all the begging elephants
off the streets by twenty thirty.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Oh okay, So.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
That's suck five years. Once again, it's a bold goal,
it's a good one. We have a plan, so it's
more than just it's just more than just a goal.
We have a plan of how to achieve it, and
we're going to be very tenacious about that plan. We're
going to we're gonna stick to it, and we're going
to involve others because you can't do this alone. Of course,
(19:36):
I do believe it's one that I that we're seeing
people get behind right, and they're excited by it, and
so I think twenty thirty will be a realistic time frame.
Sure we'll see no more begging elephants in India.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Oh, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
And also the fact that that's how you came on
board with the goal with the Bears, right you said
twenty ten.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
They did it the year before, so it's probably you know, I.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Don't think from what I know of your organization, I
don't think they would come up with a year just like, hey,
let's think of a year like you know what I mean,
like exactly not to use the term, but exactly exactly,
like you know, your ducks so to speak, are in
order in order to.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Put out that year.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
So that's really cool though, that's really I mean, that's
very cool. Yeah and exciting.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Yeah, well, it's it's very exciting. And in order to
achieve these you have we've we've already the organization has
got partners with the government, so we have so much
you need to have so many in terms of networking,
can make it happen to get all these different entities
on board. And we've been building hospitals for these elephants,
(20:48):
so our facility is growing in the expectation that will
be you know, caring for a lot more elephants right
in the future. So so anyways, I've been keeping trying
the numbers. We just started this year, and I am
already seeing a reduction of about five to ten percent.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Wow, that's great.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Stay on track. We'll need to hit like twenty percent
reduction every year.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
So wow, No, that's great.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
No, but definitely, I mean, you have goals and I
feel like you achieved them and then they happen. So
I mean, that's really there's a lot to be said
for that that. You know, obviously you do have a well,
it's like it takes a village. You have many different
aspects and people who are helping but you meet your goals,
which is you know, it's incredible.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yes, absolutely, So we'll tackle this problem and then once
we solve the problem within the begging elephants, we'll move
on to the next group of elephants that need our.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Help, right right.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I was going to say, I was just going to
ask you that, so after the begging elephants, but that
was that will be obviously that's your focus, like for
the next five years.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
That is our focus with the elephant campaign, right right.
But it's important because in order to achieve this goal,
we need to ensure that new elephants are not replacing
the elephants that we're saving, right, So it's not just
about saving elephants, it's about preventing new elephants from entering
the system. So we do have a component that is
(22:13):
anti proaching, anti trafficking, and really protecting the elephants and
the wild sure, so it all works together. So we
often say that in order to help the wild elephants,
which we want to do, we also have to help
the captive elephants because these two issues are very much connected.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Yeah, no, for sure.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
So I mean this is kind of a silly question,
but when you go and you rescue an elephant, the
person who owned it or the people, do they do
they apologize? Do they say do they say ignorance? Like, oh,
we didn't know.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
It's everyone is different.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
So I can't give a blanket answer, but I can
tell you this it is. It is an industry where
a lot of money is involved. So whenever you have
a lot of money involved, it makes it even sometimes
more complicated to tackle it. And because people who own
(23:18):
elephants in India are seen to have prestige, because elephants
are considered gods Ganesh the god that it makes it
even harder to confiscate an elephant because you're confiscating a god.
So sometimes like with our our rescues, we had one
(23:40):
recently with Hari. He's our most recent rescue where hundreds
and hundreds of people turned out to protest are rescuing
this particular elephant because we were taking away the god
that was in the village. It was very much seemed
that way. So there can be a lot of fights
(24:02):
to prevent us from taking the elephants. And it can
either come from the owner or it can come from
the community. And that's why we often need to have
law enforcement evolved and we have the Force department involved.
But in India though, right now, it is illegal to
buy and sell an elephant. So that's a lot of times.
How we are able to go in and get these
(24:25):
elephants is if we can show that that elephant was
illegally obtained. And that's something where the government needs to
get again because we can't just personally go in and
take an elephants.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Of course, a.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Lot of bureaucracy, right right.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Elephants, sure, But the fact, yeah, I mean the fact
is that must be like a recent law. I would
assume it's I would say it's a law.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
India has a really fantastic wildlife law that goes back
to nineteen seventy two. It's the and with this, like
there's no hunting in India, there's a lot of protection
to prevent wild animals from like being in circuses. Right,
we don't have lions and even things like if you
(25:17):
you can do a search of someone's property if you
believe that they have like animals being kept there, you
don't need a waker or warrant.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Does they have.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Unique laws that do you protect wildlife in India? And
because of these laws, you see things like tiger populations increasing,
So there's there's really I believe there's a culture for
wanting to protect the wildlife. But the problem is is
that it always comes down to enforcements.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Right of course, so.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Buying an elephant might be illegal, but enforcing the law
is where things become problematic. So if we can confiscate.
Before confiscating an elephant was hard if you had no
place to put them, right, elephants illegally held. But now
that we have facilities, the government can go and confiscate
the elephant and know that they have a place that
(26:06):
they can put them. So it sends a message out
to the wider public. You know, if you if you
get an elephant illegally, there's a strong likelihood that elephant
could be confiscated, sure, taken from.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
You, right right, and maybe people get fined for it
or something since they're breaking the law.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yes, oh yes, I I there
are several people who have gone to jail, and we
do ensure and we work with the government to do
prosecutions when we can to to send that message that
we're just talking about, which is so important. Sure that
these are crimes that will be seriously prosecuted if you
(26:45):
engage in them.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Yeah. Yeah, so this way they won't repeat it, you.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Know, that way they won't repeat it, or other people
won't think it's a good idea.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
It's a good idea. Yeah, yeah, no, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
No, I mean I think it's it's fascinating and like
you said, how reward it is that you're saving these
elephants and you have this goal. And I mean, and
I was reading on your website and tell me if
this these are accurate, because it's probably more at this point,
but three hundred thousand plus animals have been saved. This
I thought was really kind of a cool thing because
(27:17):
you know, knowledge is power. But fifteen thousand, over fifteen
thousand kids have been educated, and I think that's really
key for this to be not happening down the road.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yes, So that all started with the dancing bear pain
where we talked about it earlier in the conversation, how
there had been hundreds of years of people dancing bear
so kids would learn from their fathers that this is
what you do and went on for generation and generation.
So what do you do to stop that cycle? So
(27:51):
for us, it was understanding that these kids need to
go to school, and they need to have other dreams.
They need to learn that they can have their professions
and other vocations. So it wasn't about just taking the
bear away, was creating programs that gave these children hope.
And so when that last bear was rescued in two
(28:13):
thousand and nine, that was a dancing bear, we didn't
stop the education programs for the kids because we did
not We realized that we needed to go at least
a generation where the kids did not see dancing bears,
and it would be just as born to them to
start dancing bears as it would be for a child
in America. So now a child that was born in
(28:36):
two thousand and nine when the last bear was taken
would be fifteen sixteen years old now and they would
never have seen a dancing bear. So they will never
go to that way of earning a livelihood. And so
this group of people, they now they have new vocations,
they have their economy. The ones who aren't dancing bears,
(28:57):
which is all of them, they're bringing in more money
and they they're just so much healthier in the communities.
And it's been a really, really fantastic I think example
of how to successfully run campaigns where you don't always
just make the people the enemy. When you want to
(29:18):
help animals, you bring the people along and you help
them to be part of the solution.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Yeah, it doesn't get easier than that in a sense,
you know.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
I mean, that makes sense. It makes so much sense,
right right.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
So women empowerment, helping the children, it all goes together,
helping people to have other vocations. So I do think,
you know, when we look at some of the bigger
problems happening, and this includes elephants too, we have taken
people who had been abusive towards elephants and we've brought
them to our center and we've retrained them on how
(29:53):
to compassionately and humanly work and care for elephants. Wow,
a lot of these men there, always men. They're called
the hoops in India. We have their stories, we have
movies about them, and they talk about the regret that
they have when they use pain and fear to control
(30:15):
an elephant. And now they know they don't have to
do that, and they see the elephants they work with
as family members. So even if people who are who
are much older can relearn, sure they've been taught for
their whole life, and so we have examples of that,
and it definitely gives me hope that we can achieve
(30:36):
beyond just helping the begging elephants, that if you look
thirty forty years in the future, you just won't see
captive elephants abused in India.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
No, that's wonderful because I guess we said knowledge is power, right,
and people did stuff out of ignorance, no fault of
theirs because they didn't know better.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
But now you've created that they know.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Better exactly, exactly, and there's so many examples of it.
And and I'm so proud to be associated with an
organization that realizes that and gives people a second chance to.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Sure, sure, No, it's true, because everybody deserves a second chance.
And it sounds like people. You put people back on
the right track.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Yes exactly, Yeah, by exactly by educating them exact and
they don't. They take that education and they share it
with their communities too. It just continues to spread out.
And we've done the same thing with snake charmers too.
People often don't really think about how snakes suffer, but
(31:36):
snakes that are part of snake charming. They're they're they're
in terrible situations. And what we've done is we've been
able to get these guys off the street to by
having them help us rescue snakes that need rescuing. In Delhi,
you have core kitchens and air conditioners and you will
call can you come get this cobra out of my
(31:59):
my kitchen? Right?
Speaker 3 (32:02):
It's not paying rent, I want it out of my kitchen.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Right.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
It's very very different kind of problems that they have
in India. Sure, but we have these guys who are
you know, they were snakes, but now they use their
skill of handling snakes to help the animal and help
people at the same time.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Wow, it's fascinating, and you're right.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
People probably wouldn't think about snake charming, you know, as
a as a problem or a thing, but of course
it is.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
You know, it's not supposed to be doing what he
was making it do.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Wow, right right? Well yeah, I mean they have their fangs, yeah,
chopped off and their mouths shut so and shut, so.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
They yeah, yeah, they're not supposed to. Yeah, that's terrible,
completely inhumane exactly. So that's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
I feel like I could talk to you for a day,
all the different stories that you have. It's like, Yeah,
it's fascinating, it really is. And I mean I will
assume that wildlife so us you have a huge staff.
I feel like you have to have so many people.
I know you said it helps with like local law
enforcement and government, but your staff itself has to be
(33:11):
pretty large.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
In India, we have over four hundred people and the
vast majority of them are taking care of animals. So
we have those who work with the elephants, those who
care for the bears, because we still have a lot
of bears. You're caring for those who care. We have
a leopard program as well. So the vast majority of
our team is doing caring for the animals, vets and caregivers.
(33:36):
But we do have a lot of people to who
do wildlife work, really working to protect the wildlife in
their natural environments. And so we're all over the country
working from Kashmir to which is north North India, to
Carnatica which is South India.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Wow, And I would assume you survive by donations, grants,
but mostly donations from people.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yeah. So we are an organization that I would say
is eighty to ninety percent of all of our support
comes from individuals. Okay, individual donations is really where we
are able to make a difference.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Yes, So for those who are listening and you're fascinated
by Nicki's stories as I am, you could go to
Wildlife SOS dot org. You can find out all the
information about the organization as well as make a donation
because I'm sure one of these stories touched your heart
in some way. So it's Wildlife SOS dot org.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
So Nicki, I love talking to you.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
I definitely want to talk to you again, updated on
what's going on at some point, and I'm sure you'll
have even more stories because I really do mean that
I could just sit here and listen to you telling
me these stories.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
We you know fully if you ever come to India too,
we'd love to have you meet some of the hours
that I've been telling you about today.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
Oh my goodness, I would love that. Wow. I might
hold you to that. You know that you're probably gonna
be sorry that you put that out there.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
No, not at all, not at all, love for you
to come.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Well, Nikki Sharp, executive director at Wildlife SOS, thank you
for all of that.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
You're doing and that you continue to do.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
And thank you for sharing all of your knowledge and
information with us and again for those who are listening.
If you feel so, I'm sure you feel inclined to
help Wildlife SOS dot org.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Thanks Nikki, thank you, thank you so much for having
me on your show,
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