What's The Seahawks Plan w/ Mike Dugar

Mike Dugar of the Athletic is back and he shares his thoughts on the Seahawks free agency thus far, will Sam Howell challenge Geno Smith at QB,what's the Seahawks plan w/ the 16th pick, and much more.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
What in the world. Apparently youwere on the field when Chris Kidd suffered
at Jamal Adams like injury, wasgetting a football to the noggin. Can
you take us through that? Becausehe was freaking it down like like Hugh
Millon or something, the six onsix like football game. But he always
talks about how great he is andhow can he be that great if the
football hits his head. Never saidI was great throwing that out there.

(00:21):
Okay, oh my goodness, Wow, that's funny. Uh yeah, So
I was there on Saturday. Weplayed played at Cleveland High School with six
on six. Chris and I wereon the same team, and yeah,
he he ran a route. Iwas on the other side of the field,
so I didn't see the route,but it was for the game winner
and the ball just our quarterback rollsat dime hits Chris smooth in the face

(00:43):
and I didn't think nothing until afterthe game. I think he ended up
big catching a game winner. Later, we're all putting our clothes on later
to leave, and then Chris,I look at christ and his face is
just bleeding, like what happened toI guess the lacers on the ball must
have hit him right above the eye, because yeah, he was just like
leaking as we were all leaving thefield on Saturday. Well, so was

(01:04):
it like a five yard pass thatcaught him off guard or was it downfield
he just didn't have time to react. I think it was like a corner
route. I'm in the traffic too. It was a good ball. Our
quarterback's real shaky dude, but heused to do a dive on that one.
Also, did Chris mention our specialguest that was playing with us on
Saturday that he routed up to Idid not mention that because he's retired and

(01:27):
there's no need to throw that outthere. Barbecue chicken out okay, why
okay, all right, we're notgoing to throw that out there up there
there. No, I'll say this. I'll say this for your listeners.
We played with a former Seahawks onSaturdays and I got by him for a
route. But I'm old and witha bad growing right, So I didn't
catch the ball, and I waslike, you know what, Chris can

(01:49):
beat him. But I just hadChris run the same route. Cook the
dude like a thirty forty yard touchdown, blue right box. I'm not lying
we don't got to say that.We don't got to say it. Name
Chris is right, but maybe he'lltell you off air, But no,
Chris is really good. He didhave a ball hit him smooth in the
face, so I forgot about thatuntil just now. Yeah, because we
won. We did. Chris caughtthe game winner on thurday, winning heels

(02:10):
all wounds. I like to say, absolutely, and yeah, you cut
that. You made up for it, and that's hard after that kind of
demoralizing face leaking situation, glasses flewoff. Everyone was like, damn kid,
and I'm like, yeah, Iworked with like a bad face.
Chris, are you banged up rightnow? At work? He is banged
up. It's just a nice Itlooks like a it looks like a rug
burn on above my left eyebrow.It was the first thing I said to

(02:34):
him today as we were getting readyfor the show, is hey, Chris,
that was here we go. Mygod, what happened to your face?
It's been the story of my weekend, my family. I wore sunglasses
to an event, my family.Why are you were in shades inside?
I'm like, let's not get intothis all right. Well, if I'm
a listener, I want to knowwho this former Seahawk is, and I'll
try and find out. I useyour imagination four nine four or five one.
I will try and find out.All right, Michael Sean Dugard from

(02:57):
the Athletic he covers the Seahawks,and thanks for joining us, Michael Sean.
I'll tell you so, Sam Howe, that caught me off guard.
I thought it a surprising news andthey got him. What it costs more
to get Sam Howe than it coststhe Steelers to get Justin Fields. I
didn't quite understand that. Yeah,it sounds like the Steelers, or maybe
not the Steelers. Justin Fields hispeople his like they suppressed his trade market

(03:21):
a little bit by saying why orwhere not they'd like to go. I
mean I would have told his age, I don't care where you want to
go, man, we need somepicks. But it sounds like that had
some bearing on the trade compensation forFields relative to Howell or Kenny Pickett or
Matt Jones or desen Ritter some ofthese other like highly drafted guys who kind
of washed out. I guess Samwasn't highly drafted, but you know what
I mean, Yeah, I thinkfor what it's worked. I do think

(03:44):
Sam is like a better passer currentlythan Justin. Justin's running ability gives him,
like a guess, a higher ceiling, But I think your ceiling is
still dramatically impacted by what happens whenI asked you to throw the ball,
you know and say, Sam's supergreat at it. Right He led the
league in sacks and led the leagueinterceptions. That's like a terrible combo.
I don't remember the last time I'veseen someone do that. So I don't

(04:08):
think either one of them are verygood. And because of the season that
Sam had, I was pretty surprisedthat they were willing to give up draft
capital for him, because now likethey're flushed the rx R. It's not
like they're flush the capitol as is, And now they're moving back to get
a guy who won't help them theoreticallyin twenty twenty four, and you know
probably isn't going to help him intwenty twenty five either, because he's not
that great. But you guys knowJohn Snyder, he sees some big armed

(04:30):
dude, You'll still say the guyhas a hose, say he loved him,
come out of the draft, andthen go acquire him, So you
know this is run up John Dowleypretty much. Well, do you think
it was that Seattle game that reallyswayed him on that? Because I was
looking at that. I remember thatgame twenty nine to forty four for Sam
how three hundred and twelve yards,three touchdowns, do interceptions down. The
Commanders lost that game, but theycould say that Sam Howe was a reason

(04:56):
that they were in it until theend. But you don't think there's any
chance at all that he maybe willgive Gino a run for his money this
season? No, And well yesto the question about the Seahawk game,
because yeah, you're right, Jim. They didn't win, But the last
two times Sam had the ball,he went down and scored right, So
he did, you know, allthe parts that he could do as the
quarterback of the offense to go leadhis team to victory that the defense just

(05:19):
folded on the back end of it. But Sam was singing it in that
game. But I mean, man, I just can't get over sixty five
shocks he took last year, twentyone interceptions. That's tough. I just
can't. I can't get over thosenumbers. Their old line was like decent.
He had decent weapons. I knowhe threw it a lot for like
thirty nine hundred yards or something,but man, that's just a lot of

(05:41):
negative things happening when you drop backto pass until Yeah, no, I
don't think he'll really give give Ginoa run. He is, I will
say this, he is. ProbablyIt could be like an upgrade over Drew
Lock perhaps, but I think heand Drew Locke have the same issue.
Is that even when they're on aheater, like they a couple passes in
a row, a couple of drivesin a row, you just never really

(06:02):
know whom they're going to goof upand throw the ball to the other team.
You know, I think Drew ledthe league in interceptions in twenty twenty,
I believe his first full season asa starter. So for some reason,
John just he didn't Carolyn guys fillthe other team to the ball to
the other team. I don't reallyknow why that is. But when you
do that, it'll leave you tobelieve you won't beat out a guy like
Gino, who is a pretty accurateand b has really cut down on his

(06:26):
interceptions, you know, since hisJets run. Michael Seandrugar of the athletic
joining us here. Jessamin McIntyre andJim Moore in with you today. So
this is a question I had toWe know that Mike McDonald comes from a
defensive background, right, but PeteCarroll did too. This is the first
time in fourteen years we are seeingthe front office make decisions without Pete Carroll.

(06:47):
And so when it came to thisdecision, do you think this was
just a ninety eight percent John Schneidersituation or do you think Mike McDonald had
a little more say saying it,Because even though he's a defensive coach,
obviously first time head coach, stillhas his eye on what's going to be
on the other side of the field. So I'm wondering what kind of ratio

(07:08):
you think went into this decision ifthey were making it together. I'm of
the impression that John is still verymuch stilling the ship on like the decision
making who they go after I kindof do it like this. So let's
say Mike McDonald comes in and says, yeah, I really want, you
know, I want our offense tobe really physical up front, and I
want us to you know, wantsome gap scheme stuff, you know,

(07:31):
power counter you know, stuff likethat, right, he can say that
is like a general broad idea.It's like, hey, I talked to
Ryan Grubb. This is kind ofwhat we're thinking to the offense. And
then John will go out there andsay, hey, okay, here,
let's go find some three hundred andforty pounds guards. Right, Let's go
find a three hundred and twenty fivepounds center. Maybe he doesn't have movement
skills, but he's huge, right, so we can run stuff, you
know, between the tackles. Andthen he goes out and finds a guy

(07:54):
and then decides what to pay them, or maybe he goes back and says,
hey, hey, Mike, heyRyan, there ain't really not out
there. There's a bunch of twohundred and ninety five pound centers who can
move, so maybe we should runoutside zones. How about that? You
know what I mean? So Idon't necessarily when it gets to how much
guys are getting paid or trade compensations, or maybe even what specific guys who
are coming in. I'm sure Mikeand Ryan and even some of the other

(08:16):
offensive and defensive coaches have their opinions, but I think ultimately this is John's
steering the ship. The coaches saywhat they want. You know, we
want big corners, we want smallcorners. We want big linebackers, you
want small linebackers. You want athletictackles. Whatever the mandate is, as
the directive is, John goes outand finds it. His salary cap guy
Matt Thomas determines how much to payhim, and then you pop back into

(08:37):
mich McDonald's office and say, hey, we got such and such, or
hey, Damian Lewis calls way toomuch, so we let him go to
Carolina. You know, I kindof that's my vision for how the thing
works with Mike McDonald and John,and largely I think that's kind of how
it worked with Pete too. Hey, big picture, Michael Sean, the
Seahawks and free agency bringing in severalplayers, several players leaving. How you

(09:00):
think they're doing how the free agentsare doing that they left the piks,
No, the whole, the whole, big picture situation. I mean,
the Seahawks did a good job withwho they brought in. You like the
moves they've made. I don't know, man, I don't know what you
guys think, but I don't reallyknow what they're trying to do, like
they're trying to win now, they'retrying to win in twenty twenty five,

(09:22):
because really they're not set up todo either, you know, like their
team is just like decent right now. They have a bunch of guys who
are good at a few things hereand there, don't really have a ton
of players with elite traits, particularlyon defense, like I think outside of
like Mafy's explosions, reeks, speedand ball skills and then spoons like literally

(09:43):
everything, I think they're missing guyswith the elite traits. And then on
offense they have a few guys whohave some legit elite traits jadsons, rout
running, Geno's accuracy, aims,athleticism, DKs, everything, But overall,
I feel like they're missing the bluechip talent they would need to have
on to acquire to be better thannine and eight you know, last year.
But then you look at twenty twentyfive. So I know some people

(10:05):
have said, well, Mike,maybe they're just trying to set up twenty
twenty five, make a real pushthen, like okay, cool, Tyler's
cap hit is crazy. Next offseason, DK's cap hit is crazy. Draymond
Jones' cap hit balloons next year.Geno's cap hit is like almost forty million
next year. Jerome Baker's a freeagent, Dobson's a free agent, Julian
Love's a free agent, Jaron Reid'sa free agent all this time next year.

(10:26):
So it's not as I feel likeinvesting in a bunch of youth that's
going to be inexpensive for a twentytwenty five push either. So I'm just
kind of confused. I don't thinktheir moves have been good or bad per
se, but they seem they seemto lack vision, which is honestly more
concerning to me. I'd rather justknow based on your moves what you're doing,
whether you're all in, whether you'retaking a step back. They seem

(10:48):
to be existing in the gray area, which, again, for me,
that's like the worst place to bein where I look at your moves and
you're spending in your roster and I'mlike, what the heck are you doing?
You know, So, I'm justkind of more confused than thing by
what John and Mike kind of gotgoing right now. Yeah, that's interesting
because part of the reason they movedon from Pete Carroll is they were trying
to get away from that gray area. Weren't they that middle ground? And

(11:09):
so yeah, I mean I lookat these names that they brought in.
I guess Dodson from Buffalo, thelinebacker a good acquisition, Baker, Rayshawn
Jenkins, George Fant coming back.But yeah, no, one just jumps
off the page at you do theyNo, And I would be fine with
that if they were like flush withdraft capital two, which is like,
hey, we're not going to spendbig because like Arizona for instance, they

(11:31):
don't need to go hard in freeagency. Their roster's kind of there.
But they have like pick four,pick twenty seven, pick thirty five,
they have three third round picks.I believe the Commanders are flushed with capital
as well, so you know,those teams don't necessarily have to spend.
I know the Commanders did spend,but they didn't have to. The Seahawks
have what seven picks? They pickedsixteen, which is like a decent pick.

(11:54):
Then I don't pick again until eightyone. Then after that I think
it's like one oh two. That'sthree picks in the first one h two.
That's not a lot to say,yeah, we'll just go cheap in
free agency, retain some of theguys. Be like, they go get
some guys in the draft. Youknow that means? I mean, realistically,
let's say they make seven picks.You guys have been around a long
time. They'll be lucky if twoof those guys are impactful right away,

(12:16):
you know what I mean. So, and they'll be lucky if three of
them are impactful total and soughout thecourse of their rookie years. So are
a rookie deal? Excuse me?So? Yeah, I'm I'm kind of
underwhelmed, mostly because I don't seea direct path to twenty twenty four contentions.
I don't see what in the twentytwenty five contentions because I'm looking at
twenty twenty five and saying, allright, who's gonna be your quarterback that
year? Are you gonna roll withwhat would be a think of thirty five

(12:39):
year old Gino at that point maybeolder? Are you gonna go with the
new A new guy? Well,that new guy would be his first year
starting if you take like a Penixor a bow Knicks now and let him
sit, you know what I mean. I just don't. I don't think
they're really setting up for anything.I think they just shuffled a bunch of
names around and yeah, Pete Carrollmight be up there looking like man,
I could have done this. Arejoining us from the athletic That does beg

(13:01):
the question though, just considering themlack of draft capital, the what chances
you think that they actually pick atnumber sixteen are? Because we know that,
you know, during the era thatwe just got out of, it
was constant trade back, constant shuffle, except for last year where they actually
took picks with their first to theirtwo first rounders. What do you think

(13:22):
the chances are they actually do pickat sixteen? And what do you think
they could turn the picks that theyhave into if they choose to trade around?
How many do you think they couldget? Yeah, I think after
the howl trade, I think ifthe odds of trading back were at like
sixty ish, I think they bumpedhuge, probably like eighty. I think

(13:43):
jump has to we have to beon the phone. I don't even know
if there's a player. There's likea couple guys that I like that if
they fell, I'm like, okay, cool, take this guy. But
they have so many other needs andagain not even just for this year,
for the future guys who are goingto be unexpiring deals, you know,
going into twenty twenty five. Soyeah, I think you gotta trade back.
I think you called green Bay.You know, John's traded with them
a few times in the first round. I think he traded with them before

(14:07):
taking the shot Penny and I thinkthe year they took Callie or two.
So he's very used to trading withthe Packers. They have picked twenty five.
They have an extra second round pickbecause of the Jets trade for Aaron
Rodgers. So I say you callthem, say hey, we'll go back
from sixteen to twenty five. Comeup for whoever you want, doesn't really
matter to us. See if youcan get I think they have like pick
fifty eight or something green Bay does. See if you can get that from

(14:30):
them as well. So you moveback nine spots, pick up a second
round pick, maybe go from there. Maybe you go back again through twenty
five with someone like New England whohas an early second round pick, or
even Arizona, like I mentioned,they have a bunch of picks on day
two. I think John's got awheel and deal. He's got to get
back. I think this has tobe kind of like twenty seventeen, where
I believe he started with pick twentysix and didn't end up taking Malik MCDOWBTS

(14:52):
will pick thirty five after like threetrades. Now, don't take Leak mcdall
right, Well that was bad,But the process of back a few times.
I think he has to do that. I think the goal should be
to make at least four picks inthe top one hundred. If he can
do that, I think that canmaybe be a successful draft. All right,
Michael Seawan. They re signed LeonardWilliams three years, sixty four and

(15:13):
a half million dollars. Was thata good signing or not? I think
he's got to start playing like ablue chip guy, you know, like
he falls into that category. You'rekind of hitting that earlier of guys who
are like good, Leonard's a gooddefensive tackle. You know, that's fine.
You're paying him like a really gooddefensive tackle. Though. You know,

(15:35):
look at the guys who are inthat price range, they're all Pro
Bowlers, they're all making All pros, you know, so Leonard needs to
be that. Not to say hecan't be that. I think he made
a pro Bowl with the Jets orthe Giants or somebody. He's made it,
make another one and keep making them. You know, I think that's
got to be what happens when youget paid that much. He's not the
only guy, you know. Ithink Geno and DT are under that same

(15:56):
pressure based on their contracts too.You know, Quandre was under that same
pressure Jamal two. When you getto a certain pricelin at your position and
you look at your peers who aretop five, top ten in salary and
they're making Pro Bowls and All pros, when he did do the same thing.
So I just think to justify thatthe salary, Leonard's got to get
to that level. He's got todo it right away. You know.
I think he's going into his agethirty seasons. So I'm not mad at

(16:19):
the signing. But I think guyslike him, DK, Gino, guys
who are in the eight figures annuallyon their salary, I think no offense
qualifies as that as well. Needsyou to go ball out and play like
a top five, top ten guyat your position, your cohort, your
cohort. On the Manda Man Podcast, Chris Kidd thinks that Russell Wilson will

(16:40):
be the starting quarterback for the Steelers. Justin Field's no chance. What do
you think? Yeah, I havea hard time seeing Justin beat him out,
just because if they're gonna give Russthe first team reps, the offense
that Russ runs is going to lookso different than the offense that they're gonna
need for Justin fields to be successful. Like Russ is gonna want to do

(17:02):
a more drop back game under centerplay action. You know, He's now
gonna do a lot of zone reads, design quarterback run stuff, which where
when you're Justin, that's what you'regonna need to beat them out. Like
your offense has to looks so different, but you've got a different offense and
you're getting the backup reps, soyou're running the backup receivers, backup lineman,
you know what I mean. Ijust feel like Justin's not set up

(17:22):
to succeed and beat Russ out logistically. You know, if they're running the
same offense, perhaps, but Ithink Russ is just going to have the
leg up. Also, I thinkRust is a far better passes than Justin
and Arthur Smith. The ocup thePittsburgh is going to see that after like
a couple of days and like,huh, yeah, we should definitely just
start Russell and if he gets hurt, we can change the offense to you
know, make it fit justin.But until that happens, you know,

(17:45):
or unless that happens, Yeah,they should, they should more rust and
Michael Sean, I know you're gonnabe doing the same thing I'm doing.
Omaha, Nebraska, seven oh fiveThursday Night, the Koug's against Drake.
Are we going to be disappointed orhappy at nine oh five Thursday night?
Okay, before I answer that,I was listening to you guys while I
was waiting to come on, andyou guys had me on the Wikipedia for
true TV because I too do notknow what they would do. You know

(18:10):
what they do the other three hundredwhatever days of the year. So Jess
is right. It started off asa crime drama like Network right, True
Crime, True TV, But nowI guess it looks like they played broadcast
comedies, docu soaps whatever that is, and reality TV shows. So there
we go. I found the mysteryof what true TV is when they're not

(18:30):
showing Drake versus Wazoo. I thinkwe're gonna win gym. Because here's here's
my theory. I think like wewere just set up. You know,
basketball can be cyclical, right itcomes to editing flows. Miles Rice hasn't
hit a three, and I don'tknow how long Yakumowski, I don't know
if he remembers that the ball goesin the hoop, right, that's why.

(18:52):
But now now they're due. Nowwe're due for yak and for Miles
to combine to go like eight offourteen from three in our first game or
something like that. Because Miles andAndrea's numbers are just awful. So I
think we're just gonna regret to thememes. We're gonna shoot the lights out,
and we're gonna win our first Turneygame. Whatever happens after that,
I feel like his house money.But I do think we need to win
at least one game in Attorney.You get to pray to the basketball guys

(19:17):
that Miles can find his range there, because I it's been a month he
hasn't hit one. He hasn't hitone since February seventeen, so it's been
more than a month. Yeah,so they look so bad. He's front
iron, he's short arm, andhe's air Ball, and I'm like,
what what is doing on with thiskid? But I believe in him.
I believe in Yakamaski. I thinkthey're gonna turn it around in Omaha.

(19:40):
All right with you on that?I am with you on that's good.
I can't wait for Thursday night.It's gonna be fun. And Michael Shawn,
thanks for joining us today. Reallyappreciate it. I appreciate you guys. Go Koog's