May 2, 2025 • 13 mins
The dynamic singer-songwriter-actor called Bret from Tennessee to discuss changes in his life and music, why people should express themselves politically and his next big screen appearance.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I hope everything is wonderful for you right now. I'm Brett.
Welcome to the podcast this week. Brilliant singer, songwriter, multi
Grammy winner, actor, and more. It's Jason Isbull.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hey, Brett, it's really good to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Mission Ballroom Thursday and Friday, Red Rocks on Saturday. You'll
return to Colorado for the Tell You Write Bluegrass Festival
in June. Colorado seems to be a happy place for you.
You even released a record made at Denver's Twist and
Shout some years back. Why is Colorado so excellent for you? Jason?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah, there's a lot of music fans there. I mean,
it's clearly a beautiful place, but there's a whole lot
of different types of music that happens in Colorado, and
a lot of people who are really open to songs
and to musicianship and to having a good time in
a way that seems to be pretty communal and creative.
(00:55):
I just I love it out there. I think it's
a gorgeous place. I wish I could breathe a little
bit better at altitude, but that's that's my own fault.
I'm a flat lander, you know.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I'm glad you brought that up. How do you help
yourself with that? When you find yourselves in those situations,
it's you know, it's not.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
That bad in like Denver or Red Rocks. It can
get a little bit sketchy. It tell your ride. But
what I try to do is get there a little
bit early day or two early and gives me time
to see the place and enjoy it. And then by
the time I do the show, I've gotten a little
(01:33):
bit more acclimated. But I do have to think about
different places to breathe in the songs, because you get
so used to singing the songs a certain way and
taking breath at a certain time that when I get
up to altitude, I have to take twice as many breaths.
So I have to think about it. But I've done
(01:54):
it so long for so many years that that that
I think, I think I've gotten it down now. The
last couple of times we played in Dylan at that
beautiful ampatheater or there, I felt really solid about it.
And that's that's that's pretty steep up there, Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
It's that's got to be ten eleven thousand feet up there.
Do you ever hit the oxygen?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Sometimes? Yeah, sometimes I do, but it also it kind
of makes me feel old, you know what. I'm sitting there.
I just think about when I was in college and
we would go I went to College of Memphis, and
we would go over to Mississippi to go to the casinos,
and there would be so many old faults in the casino
with their oxygen tank. Every time I put one on,
I think, I think, oh, no, that's what I look
(02:37):
like right now.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I love those casinos by the way, about an hour
or so south of Memphis, because oh, it's like Las Vegas,
but you have to drive several miles from casino to casino.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yes, you do, and it is it is true America
down there. That's a real dose of it.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Your latest album is Foxes in the Snow. Who did
the album cover for.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
That the album because the painting on the album cover
is Anna Wyant, the artist in New York, and she
and I are real close, and when I was making
this record, I asked her if I could use one
of her paintings for the cover and she suggested that
(03:20):
one after hearing this song, and I think it made
a really good album cover.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Well, I'm happy that you're really close by the way.
I've been reading a little bit about that, But I
don't really like digging into people's personal lives because to me,
it's more fun just to talk about the work and
the art. Speaking of you, Yeah, that.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Is usually more unless it's just some really wow crazy story.
If it was a crazier story, I would think it'd
be more interesting.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
You were kind of rid of your crazy stories by
the time you were in your early thirties, weren't you.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
That's the thing. Yeah, I don't. I don't have too
many crazy stories anymore, and I think that's great. I
try to keep the stories in the songs, and you know,
there's always planning to write about. I think you don't
have to. You don't have to have a life that's
difficult or terribly complicated to be a creative person. I
(04:14):
think that you can just pay close attention to the
people and the things that are going on around you.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Jason, you've been through numerous changes in the past couple
of years, though. Have these changes contributed to your songwriting
and your artistry? In other words, do you write songs
differently now than say, a couple of years back.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
That's a good question, you, Yeah, that's a good question.
I don't know if they've contributed to the way that
I write songs, but probably what they've done is given
me some confidence to do different things, to try things
that are new, and also reinforced the idea that challenges
(04:55):
are really important as you go later in your career,
later in your life. It's it's it's extremely to me.
It's very, very valuable to make decisions yourself and if
if something in your life needs to change, to take
the initiative to do it so you can work your
way towards peace and happiness. And I think that translates
(05:19):
really really well to the work, because you know, so
many artists that hit a certain point, they have some success,
and then the music stagnate, and you know, in some
cases it's like they're writing a lifestyle rather than trying
to make serious work about their life, about their internal life.
And for me, I think the changes that I went
(05:43):
through in a couple of years previous, you know, the
divorce and moving into a new place, and some of
the changes in the personnel and the band, these kind
of things all encouraged me because you know, it turned
out for the better in all those situations. And so
when I go to sit down and write. I think, well,
(06:03):
it's scary to write a song that sounds different or
feels different from what you've done in the past, but
you have evidence here that that can work out for
the better.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Let's talk a little bit for a moment about art
and politics. I know you don't mind talking about this,
because I know you believe that all art is political.
What do you say to people, Jason who And I
don't know if they've ever said this to you directly,
but you've heard the phrase many times shut up and sing? Right, Yeah,
it's interesting when Kid Rock says something those people who
say shut up and sing don't say it then. But
(06:36):
that's besides, what do you say to those people?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
You know? It's noise at this point to me, and
I'll tell you I have to have a white noise
machine when I go to sleep. So I think, probably
a good point in my life. I'm not able to
fully relax unless I'm just surrounded by noise. But I
think it just reinforces when you when you tell a
(07:03):
creative person or an entertainer, or a roofer or somebody
who's cutting grass, whatever somebody is doing for a job,
when you tell them that their life and their work
is not political, and that they don't have their right
to say how they feel or what they believe. Then
you're really revealing your own inadequacies and your own inability
(07:27):
to recognize privilege and advantage, because you know it when
you when you don't have clean water, you don't have
a way to have your kids educated, you don't have
enough food to eat. Everything you do becomes political, whether
you like it or not. The only way that anyone
(07:50):
is able to ignore politics is if their problems are
solved on their behalf. And that's what privilege is, is
somebody else solving your potential problems on your behalf, so
it doesn't even get to you. And when you tell
someone that they shouldn't be discussing these things publicly, they
(08:12):
shouldn't be using their voice about these things, what you're
saying is this doesn't matter to me yet, so I'm
going to pretend like it doesn't exist or like it's
not important. And I think that that is just a
really bad way to treat your neighbors, because none of
(08:32):
us have to travel very far to find somebody whose
everyday existence is a political act, and these days a
defiant act in a lot of situations.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
You said something on X a few years ago, and
I'm paraphrasing here. I may lose a few fans by
expressing myself, but so.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
What, Yeah, I don't need more, you know. I think
about the conversation between Kurt Vonnegat and Joseph Heller at
a dinner party. I think they were at like the
Getty Mansion or some somewhere in New York, somebody who
was super rich, and Vonnegut said to Heller, this guy
(09:13):
makes more in one day than Catch twenty two is
gonna make in your whole lifetime. And Joseph Heller said,
I've got something that he'll never have. Uh. And Vonniguel said,
what is that? Heller said enough, and that that sticks
with me because there has to be a such there
has to be a such thing as enough. It has
(09:35):
to exist for everybody. And Uh, to me, I have enough.
I mean, all the only challenges that I want are
creative ones at this point, and that that's a place
where I feel like I am and I can comfortably exist.
There are a lot of people in the world, and
if if people stop coming to my shows because of
(09:59):
my belief, my politics, whatever, you want to call it,
I'll just go play another town where there's more people,
you know, or I'll work a little harder and find
the people that are more like me. It's kind of
like growing a garden. I mean, you don't get sad
when the weeds die.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
By the way, thanks for bringing up Joseph Heller. Hardly
anyone talks about him anymore, and he's very true.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
He was a master, a genius. He was a genius
Vonnegut too, but but Heller certainly won that conversation. And yeah,
he was a genius that writing about you know, being
American and and uh and and war and the true
toll of it and just so many different things. He's
a brilliant, brilliant writer.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
You were so good in Killers of the Flower Moon.
Do you have any plans in terms of acting more.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I've got a couple of things that I'm thinking about doing.
It's tough because I love to tour, I love to
make records, I love to write songs, and I have
started writing some songs again, which has been really fun,
just in the last week or two. Usually after a
(11:12):
record comes out, give myself a little bit of a
break before I get back into it. So I've been
writing songs again, but I will almost certainly act in
something else in the future. It just for me, it
needs to be the right story. That's more important to
me than a big budget. You know, I'm not looking
to get more recognizable on the street or any of
(11:35):
that kind of stuff. So if somebody comes to me
with a really really interesting story, I'm happy to do that.
I had a small part in a movie that Rizza directed,
Rizza from Wu Tang Klan, and that was that was
a blast that you know. He called me and asked
me if I would do it. I said, yeah, it's Rizza,
I'm going to do anything you asked me to do.
(11:55):
You know. It's like you and Dolly Parton could just
call and say, like, would you do this, and I
would say yes. I wouldn't even need to know what
it is. So that was that was really really fun.
He and I actually wrote a song together for the
movie and I had a small part in it, and
I think that's gonna premiere at some film festivals this season.
(12:17):
But yeah, for us, for doing another acting gig, I
think I will enjoy it when it's exactly right when
and for me that just means a story that needs
to be told that I feel like I can contribute to.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
How quickly would I plunk down my twenty bucks to
see a collaborative film between you, Dolly Parton, and Rizza.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yes, I mean right, It just writes itself like I
can see that being really really good. Always a great actor.
You know, she had a lot of good movies, and
Riza too, both of them. So it's kind of like, yeah,
as far as like music and acting careers go, that
you could do a lot worse than having those two
as your load stars.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Well, listen, you and I could hang out and talk
all day, but I know that you have a lot
of traveling and a lot of work to do, so
I will mention again. The new album is Foxes in
the Snow. You're at the Mission Ballroom Thursday and Friday
and Red Rocks on Saturday. Jason Ibull, I love following
you on social media. I just love your music, and
I'm glad you're out there. Pal.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Thank you. I really appreciate that, and I always enjoy
talking with you. I'm looking forward to being in Colorado
for a few days and playing some shows.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I'm really glad you took the time to listen this week,
See you next time on the Brett Sonders Podcast.
I hope everything is wonderful for you right now. I'm Brett.
Welcome to the podcast this week. Brilliant singer, songwriter, multi
Grammy winner, actor, and more. It's Jason Isbull.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hey, Brett, it's really good to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Mission Ballroom Thursday and Friday, Red Rocks on Saturday. You'll
return to Colorado for the Tell You Write Bluegrass Festival
in June. Colorado seems to be a happy place for you.
You even released a record made at Denver's Twist and
Shout some years back. Why is Colorado so excellent for you? Jason?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah, there's a lot of music fans there. I mean,
it's clearly a beautiful place, but there's a whole lot
of different types of music that happens in Colorado, and
a lot of people who are really open to songs
and to musicianship and to having a good time in
a way that seems to be pretty communal and creative.
(00:55):
I just I love it out there. I think it's
a gorgeous place. I wish I could breathe a little
bit better at altitude, but that's that's my own fault.
I'm a flat lander, you know.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I'm glad you brought that up. How do you help
yourself with that? When you find yourselves in those situations,
it's you know, it's not.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
That bad in like Denver or Red Rocks. It can
get a little bit sketchy. It tell your ride. But
what I try to do is get there a little
bit early day or two early and gives me time
to see the place and enjoy it. And then by
the time I do the show, I've gotten a little
(01:33):
bit more acclimated. But I do have to think about
different places to breathe in the songs, because you get
so used to singing the songs a certain way and
taking breath at a certain time that when I get
up to altitude, I have to take twice as many breaths.
So I have to think about it. But I've done
(01:54):
it so long for so many years that that that
I think, I think I've gotten it down now. The
last couple of times we played in Dylan at that
beautiful ampatheater or there, I felt really solid about it.
And that's that's that's pretty steep up there, Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
It's that's got to be ten eleven thousand feet up there.
Do you ever hit the oxygen?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Sometimes? Yeah, sometimes I do, but it also it kind
of makes me feel old, you know what. I'm sitting there.
I just think about when I was in college and
we would go I went to College of Memphis, and
we would go over to Mississippi to go to the casinos,
and there would be so many old faults in the casino
with their oxygen tank. Every time I put one on,
I think, I think, oh, no, that's what I look
(02:37):
like right now.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I love those casinos by the way, about an hour
or so south of Memphis, because oh, it's like Las Vegas,
but you have to drive several miles from casino to casino.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yes, you do, and it is it is true America
down there. That's a real dose of it.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Your latest album is Foxes in the Snow. Who did
the album cover for.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
That the album because the painting on the album cover
is Anna Wyant, the artist in New York, and she
and I are real close, and when I was making
this record, I asked her if I could use one
of her paintings for the cover and she suggested that
(03:20):
one after hearing this song, and I think it made
a really good album cover.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Well, I'm happy that you're really close by the way.
I've been reading a little bit about that, But I
don't really like digging into people's personal lives because to me,
it's more fun just to talk about the work and
the art. Speaking of you, Yeah, that.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Is usually more unless it's just some really wow crazy story.
If it was a crazier story, I would think it'd
be more interesting.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
You were kind of rid of your crazy stories by
the time you were in your early thirties, weren't you.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
That's the thing. Yeah, I don't. I don't have too
many crazy stories anymore, and I think that's great. I
try to keep the stories in the songs, and you know,
there's always planning to write about. I think you don't
have to. You don't have to have a life that's
difficult or terribly complicated to be a creative person. I
(04:14):
think that you can just pay close attention to the
people and the things that are going on around you.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Jason, you've been through numerous changes in the past couple
of years, though. Have these changes contributed to your songwriting
and your artistry? In other words, do you write songs
differently now than say, a couple of years back.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
That's a good question, you, Yeah, that's a good question.
I don't know if they've contributed to the way that
I write songs, but probably what they've done is given
me some confidence to do different things, to try things
that are new, and also reinforced the idea that challenges
(04:55):
are really important as you go later in your career,
later in your life. It's it's it's extremely to me.
It's very, very valuable to make decisions yourself and if
if something in your life needs to change, to take
the initiative to do it so you can work your
way towards peace and happiness. And I think that translates
(05:19):
really really well to the work, because you know, so
many artists that hit a certain point, they have some success,
and then the music stagnate, and you know, in some
cases it's like they're writing a lifestyle rather than trying
to make serious work about their life, about their internal life.
And for me, I think the changes that I went
(05:43):
through in a couple of years previous, you know, the
divorce and moving into a new place, and some of
the changes in the personnel and the band, these kind
of things all encouraged me because you know, it turned
out for the better in all those situations. And so
when I go to sit down and write. I think, well,
(06:03):
it's scary to write a song that sounds different or
feels different from what you've done in the past, but
you have evidence here that that can work out for
the better.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Let's talk a little bit for a moment about art
and politics. I know you don't mind talking about this,
because I know you believe that all art is political.
What do you say to people, Jason who And I
don't know if they've ever said this to you directly,
but you've heard the phrase many times shut up and sing? Right, Yeah,
it's interesting when Kid Rock says something those people who
say shut up and sing don't say it then. But
(06:36):
that's besides, what do you say to those people?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
You know? It's noise at this point to me, and
I'll tell you I have to have a white noise
machine when I go to sleep. So I think, probably
a good point in my life. I'm not able to
fully relax unless I'm just surrounded by noise. But I
think it just reinforces when you when you tell a
(07:03):
creative person or an entertainer, or a roofer or somebody
who's cutting grass, whatever somebody is doing for a job,
when you tell them that their life and their work
is not political, and that they don't have their right
to say how they feel or what they believe. Then
you're really revealing your own inadequacies and your own inability
(07:27):
to recognize privilege and advantage, because you know it when
you when you don't have clean water, you don't have
a way to have your kids educated, you don't have
enough food to eat. Everything you do becomes political, whether
you like it or not. The only way that anyone
(07:50):
is able to ignore politics is if their problems are
solved on their behalf. And that's what privilege is, is
somebody else solving your potential problems on your behalf, so
it doesn't even get to you. And when you tell
someone that they shouldn't be discussing these things publicly, they
(08:12):
shouldn't be using their voice about these things, what you're
saying is this doesn't matter to me yet, so I'm
going to pretend like it doesn't exist or like it's
not important. And I think that that is just a
really bad way to treat your neighbors, because none of
(08:32):
us have to travel very far to find somebody whose
everyday existence is a political act, and these days a
defiant act in a lot of situations.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
You said something on X a few years ago, and
I'm paraphrasing here. I may lose a few fans by
expressing myself, but so.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
What, Yeah, I don't need more, you know. I think
about the conversation between Kurt Vonnegat and Joseph Heller at
a dinner party. I think they were at like the
Getty Mansion or some somewhere in New York, somebody who
was super rich, and Vonnegut said to Heller, this guy
(09:13):
makes more in one day than Catch twenty two is
gonna make in your whole lifetime. And Joseph Heller said,
I've got something that he'll never have. Uh. And Vonniguel said,
what is that? Heller said enough, and that that sticks
with me because there has to be a such there
has to be a such thing as enough. It has
(09:35):
to exist for everybody. And Uh, to me, I have enough.
I mean, all the only challenges that I want are
creative ones at this point, and that that's a place
where I feel like I am and I can comfortably exist.
There are a lot of people in the world, and
if if people stop coming to my shows because of
(09:59):
my belief, my politics, whatever, you want to call it,
I'll just go play another town where there's more people,
you know, or I'll work a little harder and find
the people that are more like me. It's kind of
like growing a garden. I mean, you don't get sad
when the weeds die.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
By the way, thanks for bringing up Joseph Heller. Hardly
anyone talks about him anymore, and he's very true.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
He was a master, a genius. He was a genius
Vonnegut too, but but Heller certainly won that conversation. And yeah,
he was a genius that writing about you know, being
American and and uh and and war and the true
toll of it and just so many different things. He's
a brilliant, brilliant writer.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
You were so good in Killers of the Flower Moon.
Do you have any plans in terms of acting more.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I've got a couple of things that I'm thinking about doing.
It's tough because I love to tour, I love to
make records, I love to write songs, and I have
started writing some songs again, which has been really fun,
just in the last week or two. Usually after a
(11:12):
record comes out, give myself a little bit of a
break before I get back into it. So I've been
writing songs again, but I will almost certainly act in
something else in the future. It just for me, it
needs to be the right story. That's more important to
me than a big budget. You know, I'm not looking
to get more recognizable on the street or any of
(11:35):
that kind of stuff. So if somebody comes to me
with a really really interesting story, I'm happy to do that.
I had a small part in a movie that Rizza directed,
Rizza from Wu Tang Klan, and that was that was
a blast that you know. He called me and asked
me if I would do it. I said, yeah, it's Rizza,
I'm going to do anything you asked me to do.
(11:55):
You know. It's like you and Dolly Parton could just
call and say, like, would you do this, and I
would say yes. I wouldn't even need to know what
it is. So that was that was really really fun.
He and I actually wrote a song together for the
movie and I had a small part in it, and
I think that's gonna premiere at some film festivals this season.
(12:17):
But yeah, for us, for doing another acting gig, I
think I will enjoy it when it's exactly right when
and for me that just means a story that needs
to be told that I feel like I can contribute to.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
How quickly would I plunk down my twenty bucks to
see a collaborative film between you, Dolly Parton, and Rizza.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yes, I mean right, It just writes itself like I
can see that being really really good. Always a great actor.
You know, she had a lot of good movies, and
Riza too, both of them. So it's kind of like, yeah,
as far as like music and acting careers go, that
you could do a lot worse than having those two
as your load stars.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Well, listen, you and I could hang out and talk
all day, but I know that you have a lot
of traveling and a lot of work to do, so
I will mention again. The new album is Foxes in
the Snow. You're at the Mission Ballroom Thursday and Friday
and Red Rocks on Saturday. Jason Ibull, I love following
you on social media. I just love your music, and
I'm glad you're out there. Pal.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Thank you. I really appreciate that, and I always enjoy
talking with you. I'm looking forward to being in Colorado
for a few days and playing some shows.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I'm really glad you took the time to listen this week,
See you next time on the Brett Sonders Podcast.
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