October 17, 2024 • 37 mins
Chuck Zodda and Mike Armstrong explain why some feel like it is getting harder and harder for Americans to join the middle class. Mark Hamrick from Bankrate joins the show to discuss what Americans top economic issues are heading into the election. Key change coming for 401(k) 'max savers' in 2025. Meta fires staff for abusing $25 meal credits. Uber explored takeover bid for Expedia.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(01:04):
by Veterans Development Corporation. This is the Financial Exchange with
Chuck Zada and Mike Armstrong.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Chuck, Mike and Tucker with you here.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
And as we get into the second hour of the program,
we've got stocks still very slightly positive, but well off
their highs from earlier in the day. The S and
P five hundred did hit a new all time intra
day high of fifty eight seventy five, but sits right
now at fifty eight to forty six, up just three
points rather than the thirty two it was up earlier
in the day. We got the Dow up sixty six
(01:39):
points about zero point one five percent, and the NASDAK
up twenty nine points point one six percent. The Nasdaq
at eighteen three ninety seven right now, but had been
assist eighteen five thirty seven, so giving up about one
hundred and fifty points of gains and now getting you know,
closer to flat on the day. Ten year Treasury selling
off a bit up to four point one percent, up
(02:01):
eight bases points, and we've got oil up twenty four
cents a barrel to seventy sixty two as it continues
to flutter around that seventy dollars per barrel mark, gas
prices nationally resuming their downward move, down eight tens of
a cent to three nineteen and six tenths so back
below three twenty. We'll see if there's any momentum in
that direction now that oil prices are back around seventy
(02:21):
instead of hanging out closer to seventy three to seventy
five as they were, and gold up twenty dollars and
ten cents an ounce to twenty seven to eleven and
forty cents, also a new all time high for gold
today that is holding its gains better than we're seeing
in equity markets right now, Mike, anything catching your.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Eye, no, sir?
Speaker 3 (02:42):
All right, let's talk about this piece from the blooming Berg.
Then it's titled The Math says it's getting harder to
break into the American middle class, and specifically it's talking about,
you know, some of the milestones that people typically thought
of in terms of, hey, a middle class family should
be able to afford this, things like cars, homes, vacations,
(03:04):
those types of things.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
And let's let's dig into it. What are we.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Seeing, Mike, in terms of, you know, is it actually
becoming harder for the middle class to afford these things.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
I think pretty clearly on the housing side, it's a
very compelling argument, at least.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
To start one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
August of twenty sixteen, the median single family home was
going for two hundred and forty two thousand dollars. Today
it's four hundred and twenty two thousand dollars.
Speaker 5 (03:31):
Now, you could look.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
At that and obviously you know, massive price increase, but
they do it in an interesting way, which is, Okay, well,
if I need to come up with a down payment,
how long is it going to take me to do that.
The standard twenty percent down payment on a medium priced
home now costs eighty three percent of a year's income
for the you know, typical family. That's up from sixty
(03:53):
five percent back in twenty sixteen. So, whether you look
at it from purely a dollars perspective and inflation adjusted perspective,
or even compare it to hey, how is my wage
kept up with the price of housing, the clear answer
is Americans have fallen behind in almost every way you
can measure of somebody getting into a new home in
twenty twenty four compared to twenty sixteen, and I think
(04:15):
that's probably the one that is most relatable for people
out there, and probably also expresses a large degree of
the frustration out there, because few things out there are
more connected to the American dream than buying a home.
I'm trying to think of what else would be there.
I mean, maybe a college or post high school education
(04:38):
is another part of that American dream, but not to
me in the same way that housing is.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Let's talk a little bit about the car side of things,
just because I do think this is one where there's
some meat on the bone in the other direction. According
to data from Cox Automotive in August of twenty sixteen,
the average monthly car payment then was four hundred and
seventy eight dollars a month and eighty five cents. By
August of twenty twenty four, it was seven hundred and
(05:03):
thirty seven dollars and two cents. And you know, this
is used as an illustration of Hey, like cars are
becoming unaffordable, and I think that that's just because as Americans.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Two things are true.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
The first is the Americans that buy and large buy
new cars do tend to be wealthier.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
To begin with. Yep, like it's it's if you will
get the data.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
That's just what we see, and as a result, they
don't choose the economical options that are out there. And
I went to Ford's website just as an example, just
because I wanted to pull it up. Remember, the average
transaction price for a new vehicle these days is like
forty eight thousand dollars, which would make you think like, hey,
like I guess like there's just really expensive stuff available.
(05:43):
You go to Ford's website and just in the SUV's
and cars page, two different models available, the Escape and
Bronco below thirty thousand dollars. Now you have to get
the base model. But Mike, is there anything wrong with
the base model?
Speaker 4 (05:57):
No, my first car was stick shift with roller w Yeah,
exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I'd like it till year old hand me down minivan,
you know, like it was. It was fine, It was great.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Actually.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
On the truck side of things, even if you want
F one fifty, you can get a base model for
thirty seven thousand if you're content with a Ranger, a
Maverick thirty two twenty three thousand, respectively. So there are
cheaper vehicles available. You go to let's let's take a
look at Honda, just as an example, if you go
to their website and say, okay, what's available if you
(06:29):
wanted to go buy a Honda. Fords aren't your things
you're looking for a Honda, Okay. The HRV starts at
twenty five, The CRV starts at thirty for cars, the
Civic starts at twenty four, the Accords at twenty eight.
The Accord hybrid even if you're saying, hey, I want
to get some better gas miled, you're at thirty three.
Sure it doesn't have the panoramic moon roof in the
you know sut well, then forget about it, chuck. It
(06:50):
doesn't have the seats that you know, massage you while
you're driving, which I'm sure is probably not like the
safest thing.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Maybe it's not that good of a massage, I guess.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
But look, all I'm trying to say is on the
car piece. The reason why that car payment, that average
car payment is up isn't because there aren't cheaper vehicles
available to because Americans are choosing the more expensive ones.
And that's on us, not on the economy. Like, if
you're choosing to make that payment, you're saying, I can
(07:18):
do this.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Yeah, the car purchase scenarios in the United States is
just it's stupid, and I don't think it tells you
much about the unaffordability of the American economy. The cars
that people are driving these days are far nicer, far
higher quality than they were before and costly for a reason,
and we're driving that. There's a reason that Ford decided
(07:43):
not to sell sedans anymore, and it's not because they
thought they were JUNKI cars. It's because all of us
refused to buy them. So I'm not going to really
go on that side of things. I think on the
other two areas that they talk about again, I find
these interesting. Childcare was unaffordable in twenty sixteen, remains very
(08:04):
unaffordable even more so today, and is a legitimate problem
that I don't think has much to do with choice
type decisions other than you know, we have dual working
households a lot more commonly today than we did sixty
years ago, and I don't really have a market based
solution to that problem there.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
So here's one thing that like when when we look
at a couple pieces of data here, and I'm just
gonna look at that childcare one as an example. So
the childcare cost again, you noted it was unaffordable in
twenty sixteen. The prices are up about fifty percent over that.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Eight year period that we're looking at.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
If you look at wage growth over the same time,
and again, like, this is the other thing that I
find kind of bothersome about this piece is it shows
the price growth without showing the wage growth, right, and
so yeah, like if you were still making the exact
same money you were making in twenty sixteen, Okay, Like
(09:08):
that's you're like, yeah, this is a real problem. But
here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
If you look at wage growth over that time.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
I'm just trying to get the exact numbers, and I
don't have them yet, but I do know that over
the previous three years we were around twenty percent. And
even if we just look at you know, the historical
average I think is like three and a half. So
even if we just apply that average wage growth over
that you know, sixteen seventeen, eighteen nineteen period, and I'll
throw in twenty because again we were looking twenty one
(09:36):
through twenty three, you're talking about another fifteen percent and
change on top of that. So, yeah, the cost of
daycare went up fifty percent, wages went up call it
thirty five to thirty seven. So, yes, it has gotten
more expensive. But it's not like you're sitting there saying,
my wages haven't gone up at all since twenty sixteen
in most cases.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Yeah, So I just ran a quick number from UH
from the Saint Louis FED. I'm seeing through twenty twenty three,
wages up about thirty six and a half percent since
twenty sixty.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Thing I was right on, So thank you exactly. So, yes,
you can make a case on childcare. Hey, in real terms,
it's gotten like fifteen percent more expensive.
Speaker 5 (10:14):
But not fifty percent more expensive.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Correct, So I'm not saying that that's good, like it's
still bad, but this is something where you have to
provide the context because again, wages have gone up over
that time too. And so I think the place is
where Americans are looking at it and saying, hey, this
is the problem. Yeah, homes, childcare, college, healthcare. I think
(10:41):
those are very reasonable places where the cost of all
those has dramatically outstripped wages.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Real problem the.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Auto side of things, we make some bad choices, and
on the vacation side of things, the biggest complaint that
I hear is that like everything's just so much more
crowded than it used to be.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
But that's because there's more people.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Like you can't you can't simultaneously be like, hey, we're
not having enough babies and then complain when Disney World's
too crowded.
Speaker 5 (11:06):
College.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
I will just spend a moment, you know, going back
the inflation that we've seen on college expenses, what's it
average like seven percent.
Speaker 5 (11:13):
A year over the last few decades.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
It's been hot.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
That also is a lot of choice playing into it, right, Like,
there are tremendously affordable community colleges and state universities and
of people today. And again, the reason that Harvard and
Boston College and Boston University get to charge seventy eighty
ninety thousand dollars a year intuition is very simply because
(11:36):
we choose to go there one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Just take a quick break here when we come back,
joined by Mark Hamrick from bank Rate, talking about Americans
and their top economic issues for the twenty twenty four election.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
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Speaker 4 (12:41):
Joining us now is Mark Hamrick from bank Rate. They've
done a survey on the top economic issues for the
upcoming election. Mark, thanks for joining us. Appreciate it.
Speaker 7 (12:49):
Good to be with you, gentlemen. You were on a
roll there before the break. If I should be interrupted,
maybe you need a coffee break, a refuel.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
But it's all good well Mark.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
We're heading in to, as far as I can tell,
one of the closest elections in recent history. Here betting
markets have this thing in a dead heat. Donald Trump
slightly favored on sites like predict It according to five thirty.
Speaker 5 (13:14):
Eight polling averages.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
You've got Harris slightly ahead on national polls, but all
of the almost all of the swing states in a
dead heat as well. So one of the closest in
terms of those being polled in recent history. As always,
Americans very focused on the economy as we head into
election season, and given that seems to be an immense
amount of concern about inflation. What did your survey find
(13:36):
regarding Americans views on inflation right now?
Speaker 7 (13:39):
Yeah, So we asked Americans to pick their top three
economic issues from a list, and inflation comes in a
number one from forty one percent of the participants. I
think though, that it really bears closer examination when we
dig beneath the surface, because indicative of these divided times
(14:00):
that you're talking about there, with the potential closeness of
essentially you know, when we get a result the day
after election day or do we have to wait a while.
If you go down the list, it's twenty eight percent
of Democrats putting inflation up there, twice as many among Republicans.
And then you go to the second and third issues overall,
(14:21):
which is related to some of the things you were
talking about before the break. Number two is healthcare costs.
Number three is the affordability or lack thereof, of housing.
You go to the Republican side. Interestingly enough, inflation, as
I mentioned, is more elevated than it is for the
broader population as a whole. A government spending Interestingly enough
(14:44):
is number two, which just is a bit of a
conundrum to me, given the fact that Donald Trump is
not the spokesman for fiscal responsibility, and then healthcare cost
being number three. So interesting times in which we live.
I'd also add that when we asked whether the economy
is going in the right direction, essentially Democrats said yes
(15:06):
and Republicans four out of five Republicans said no.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Part of Harris's recent campaign has been trying to separate
herself a little bit from the Biden administration. She attempted
that with her Fox News interview recently, where do Americans
view favorability in terms of the economy Trump versus Harris?
Speaker 7 (15:25):
When you pulled them, yeah, it's a narrow gap, but
Trump wins in all three of the categories that we isolated,
which were the personal financial situation, which candidates best for that,
the economy and inflation. The average is about four points.
But what I would note, and I think this gets
related to something that's critical as we try to figure
(15:46):
out how all this turns out, is I think there
are still, believe it or not, a fair number of
people who are potentially persuadable on this question, which is
all about why the interviews are being done. So for example,
on the economy, seven percent said neither candidate, an eight
percent said don't know. That goes up to twenty one
percent in the total of neither and don't know on
(16:08):
the personal financial situation. So you know, not trying to
give anybody sort of, you know, a gimme on a
putt or an extra shot on the golf course here.
But obviously Harris didn't know she was going to be
in this position until you know that happened, right, and
so you know, part of the process probably should acknowledge that,
(16:31):
you know, you're putting a campaign together essentially on the fly.
But we're obviously past that point now. And obviously two
both of these candidates are spending more and more time
with media sources to try to amplify their messages.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
Mark, you have a lot of different data here generation
wise in demographics, and you know that's important in terms
of propensity to vote, right, who's most likely to show
up this election? And historically it's been older Americans more
likely to vote than their younger counterparts.
Speaker 5 (17:00):
How do views diverge on that piece.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Of the economy and inflation when you look at baby
boomers compared to millennials and Gen z ers for example.
Speaker 7 (17:08):
Yeah, well, you know, we just think about how these
issues affect people differently, right in the sense of we're
all in a different station of our life and financial journey,
and so what might be of concern to me as
someone who's been you know, in the cohort that would
have qualified for ARP membership for many years, as opposed
(17:29):
to someone who's early in their career trajectories. It's about aspirations,
it's about needing to accomplish our financial goals. And so
if one's older, you're more concerned about health care costs
and prescription drugs because you need them, right, you're utilizing
those products. If you're younger, you're you are concerned about
those affordability issues such as healthcare costs, affordable housing of
(17:53):
the job market, and that's sort of the way it
breaks down. You know, as a candid date, they need
to address these issues broadly. And I would say, I think,
you know, it's easy to be a critic here sitting
on the sidelines, but I do feel as if the
(18:14):
level of thorough and serious discussion about, for example, the
inflation question has been you know, zero right now. The
other part of that is the president doesn't have a
lever in the Oval office to turn inflation off. So
there's both disingenuousness on that you know, oh, oh, we're going.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
To fix it.
Speaker 7 (18:33):
Both of the candidates have basically said that I don't
like this discussion about so called greedy corporations or price gouging.
That's not the primary reason that we've had inflation. And
certainly tariffs and mass deportations on the Republican side and
up to maybe seven to ten trillion dollars in government
spending on the Republican side, that's not going to help
inflation either. So I feel like the American public is
(18:56):
either not being talked with or being talked down to,
broadly speaking, and then it's up for Americans to decide
which box they're going to check off there.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
Mark Hamrick from bankret joining us for their recent survey
on Americans top economic issues heading into that twenty twenty
four election. Marks, thanks so much for joining us. Really
good piece and I enjoyed talking to you today.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Always a pleasure.
Speaker 7 (19:19):
Thanks for having.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
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Speaker 3 (19:55):
Mike, I had an interesting realization this morning. Did you
I did. I'm too stupid to understand the tax code anymore.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
I've been saying this to a lot of people recently,
but it almost seems as though Congress keeps writing rules
for the explicit purpose of keeping people like me employed.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Let me put on my my it's so complicated.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Let me put on my tax code hat here.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Okay, So for twenty twenty five, here's what you can do.
If you're between the ages of well, if you're over
age fifty, you can contribute your extra money into a
four or one K. That's your regular ketchup contribution if
you are between age of sixty and sixty three but
not over sixty three, even if you're still working, then
(20:46):
you can do a super ketchup contribution that is one
hundred and fifty percent of the ketchup limit or ten
thousand dollars or ten thousand dollars, whichever is greater. And
but here's the thing starting next, Steer, the way it
works is, if you earn more than one hundred and
forty five thousand dollars from a single employer in a
single year, you're gonna have to do that into a
(21:08):
wrath four one K, not a traditional four one K.
And but if you earn that much from two different employers,
it's fine. I mean, Mike, what are we doing here,
aside from creating unenforceable rules that people don't understand.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
This is stupid.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
It is incredibly stupid, And I genuinely look at it
and like, I don't know who came up with this.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Why you're going to have more tax fraud because of this.
First and foremost, it makes zero sense at all. I
can understand why you would let people over the age
of fifty contribute more to a four oh one K
I can at least get there and understand it.
Speaker 5 (21:47):
It makes no.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Sense to me at all that you would have some
narrow gap for folks between the ages of sixty to
sixty three, specifically to contribute more than everybodybody.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Else plus sixty. At sixty four, it's no longer important.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
I guess I have no idea the logic behind this,
and I genuinely feel bad for everybody out there trying
to navigate this, Like, how is any individual who is
not some expert on the tax code supposed to follow
any of this? And frankly, how are the for one
K providers even supposed to administer and and help employees
(22:27):
understand all of this. It's a cluster, and like I said,
it seems it's almost as though it is designed for
the explicit purpose of making sure that accountants, four one
K providers and financial advisors have permanent job security.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
It's so silly.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
It's absolutely ridiculous that this is where we landed on this.
And look, I get that the way that this ends up,
the way they get here to this convoluted train wreck
of whatever this is is correct to point O is
what it's called whatever, the train Wreck Act two point one,
(23:04):
I don't care what it is. The way they get
here is they're like, well, these are the revenue targets
that we need to have each year, and here's how
we do it. But they don't think of the real
world impact in any way like that. That's how you
end up with something where yes, you can do a
super catchup from age sixty to sixty three, but not
sixty four, sixty five, sixty six or sixty seven, even
(23:24):
though full retirement age now is age sixty seven.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
They are making it so again, you know, so complicated.
They're making it complicated enough that even the IRS is
taking like two three years to interpret what the hell
they're trying to say. Four one K providers like the IRS,
this your endorser, this can't understand how it all works.
The four one K providers out there, they're like, this
is crazy. We did an extra two years to implement
(23:51):
what you're talking about because it's so insane what you're
trying to put together here.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
It is just.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
I mean, yeah, grateful, it's because like it gives me
permanent job security. Because no one can possibly figure this
out on their own, they delay.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
The implementation They delayed the implementation by two years because
they realized that no one was going to be ready
to do it because it's such a mess. Yeah, just
let people save the money.
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Speaker 3 (25:25):
Mike, you want to talk food prices or metastaff using
their meal creda.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Okay, this this is a great one here.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
So from the Financial Times, Meta has fired about two
dozen staff in Los Angeles for using their twenty five
dollars daily meal credits to buy household items including acne pads, wineglasses,
and laundry detertion. Now, supposedly this was over a long
period of times, so that it wasn't like they did
this once and you know, ended up getting caught. They
indicated that this was, you know, something that was you know,
(25:57):
a repeated infraction. Couple things here. I don't know exactly
how much all of these employees were making, but i'd
imagine if you're working for Meta, even in you know,
a relatively low level role.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
Let's put it this way, the cleaning staff isn't getting.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
These meal vous.
Speaker 6 (26:17):
I think I read one salary was four hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yeah, So here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
You're making four hundred grand a year, Yeah, and you
decide to throw it away over some twenty five dollars
meal vouchers.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
I mean, what are you really doing here?
Speaker 5 (26:36):
I would fire these people totally.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I'm not saying that MET is wrong, like, no, I
MET is completely right on this.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
It's totally justified. You are abusing a benefit that we
are trying to use to induce you to get to
the office. And it speaks to your character if you're
willing to rip off your employer like this.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
What in one lunch, I wasn't hungry.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
Yeah, so I bought pads instead for my sixteen year
old kid. You make four hundred thousand dollars a year here,
we pay you pretty well. Just use the benefit for
what it's for. Stop abusing us. Look, I mean Meta
is not exactly the most pitiable institution out there, but
one hundred percent. I would fire these people in one
(27:20):
post how do you trust them? In one post on
the anonymous messaging platform blind. So they went to an
anonymous internet platform and actually wrote about this, like further
proving just man, like, what are you?
Speaker 2 (27:33):
What are you doing?
Speaker 3 (27:35):
One form of metastaffer wrote that they had used twenty
five dollars credits on items such as toothpaste and tea
from the pharmacy rite aid, adding on days where I
would not be eating at the office, like if my
husband was cooking, or if I was grabbing dinner with friends,
I figured I ought to not waste the dinner credit.
The person who indicated they had a salary of about
four hundred thousand at META and work nights and weekends
wrote they had admitted to the oversight when human resources investigated,
(27:57):
before later being unexpectedly fired. I what are you doing.
If Meta wanted to just give you an extra twenty
five dollars a day, then they would raise your salary
by five thousand dollars a year.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
Just this falls into the same level of stupidity to
me as the teenagers who were.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Out of checks.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Yeah, the ones that were check cuting with Fidelity and Chase, Like,
I mean, I have.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
Lower expectations for those folks. But this, you know, you're
paid four hundred thousand dollars for META and you're ripping
them off for twenty bucks and you get fired over it.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Right, Don't don't defraud your employer.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
Don't don't defraud it's especially not the hand that feeds you.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
It's right, like, man, you're making four hundred grand a year.
You just cost yourself your job over a one percent
bump in your income without Let's take a quick break
and we'll finish up with a little bit of stack
ruline after this.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
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Speaker 6 (29:23):
Trivia question today was what was the original name of
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Speaker 5 (29:28):
That would be chicken feed.
Speaker 6 (29:30):
Steve from Middleton, New Hampshire was our winner today, taking
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Speaker 2 (29:34):
Show T shirt.
Speaker 6 (29:35):
Steve is also registered to win a one hundred dollars
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Speaker 2 (29:57):
Mike, what do you have for me for stack rules?
Speaker 4 (30:01):
Uber apparently explored a takeover bid for Expedia, which at
first glance made absolutely zero sense to me. But Kazushawi,
the CEO of Uber, did lead Expedia for a period
of time, for a long period of time. In fact, Expedia,
in addition to their own you know, travel search engine,
(30:22):
owns hotels dot Com as well as Verbo. There might
be some other brands on top of that, but those
are the two that come to mind for me. And
Uber has expressed some interest in becoming kind of an
everything app, as they have in some other countries, especially
in China, where you can you know, go to one
app for all sorts of bookings. And Uber has been
(30:42):
expanding over the few last few years into train bookings,
you know, other areas, and this, you know, could be
a logical next step if they're looking for other things
to add into their application in some way of shape
or form. It spoke to me because I actually just
last month opened up in Expedia credit card. I found
(31:04):
we weren't reliably, you know, flying on the same airlines,
and we're pretty frequently using Verbo when we travel, and
so it made sense to get some cash back via
those means. But I do wonder if this is really
where Uber wants to go into. You know, what is
a very very cyclical, cyclical business. Uber's business, for as
(31:26):
much as we talk about it being volatile and all
sorts of labor issues, it's not terribly cyclical. Like in
the event of a recession, I would imagine people are
still taking ubers by and large, and so this would
be a step in a very different direction for them.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
Like I don't know, I mean, Uber's only really existed
in a time when there hasn't been a recession. Yeah,
that's fair, And I don't know enough about how I
don't know enough about like the economics of the taxi
business to know how that would be, you know, impacted
in recessions.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
Now that I do, Now that I say that, I
do know that Fidelity had this famous chart room and
one of those was I think taxicab volumes in maybe
New York City, to look at that as a recession indicator,
and certainly when you think about taxicab volumes in New York.
That would be a pretty key indicator of employment and
economic activity going on in the nation. So maybe there's
(32:20):
more to that than I realized.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
I think the big thing with Uber is, look, they're
growing at growth right now of about ten percent on
the revenue side of things. Okay, that starts to look
like a fairly mature company. When you're getting into that range,
you're training thirty six times forward earnings, How are you
gonna grow revenue in earnings?
Speaker 5 (32:38):
Right?
Speaker 3 (32:39):
They need something else to get into I think is
part of it.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Does all that other stuff you know, kind of fit
the bill?
Speaker 4 (32:47):
I don't really know, And honestly like, okay, if they
did this fold up and suddenly I was getting the
same rewards that I get from booking on other places
via Uber rides too, it probably wouldn't shoplift anymore when
I go look for a ride, So maybe there's something
to that.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Sticking with kind of that travel technology space, Airbnb, they
launched a new section on their app, and basically what
it allows for people to do is if they want
to list a rental, but have someone else who's already
on the platform manage the rental and take a cut
of the revenue.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
You can do that now.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
So let's say there's a host who you know, they
own you know, two units of their own and they're saying, Hey,
I'm looking to you know, make more money, but I
can't afford to buy another unit right now. Hey, I'm
really good at you know, this hosting thing. Does anyone
need you know a host? Okay, great, they can take over. Basically,
it's it's almost like being able to hire a management
company directly on the platform, with the management companies being
(33:51):
you know, other users who are you know, currently hosts
of different properties.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
And I gotta say this is kind of interesting to me.
Speaker 5 (34:02):
It is to me too.
Speaker 4 (34:05):
My question would be the confidence and trust, right, Like,
I get that there's an Airbnb institution in between you
and that helps. But on the other hand, I probably
wouldn't hire a property manager off of Craigslist. And so,
you know, how much trust and reliability can Airbnb give
me in this transaction, because that's a tough putt compared
(34:26):
to hiring There's you know, dozens of other property managers.
I'm forgetting the name of them now, but you know
other property managers that do this exact thing at an
institutional level, have years of experience doing it, sure have
written reviews. So, you know, Airbnb, what can you do
for me to give me confidence that that person who
is now managing my tenants entering my home and handling
(34:50):
financial transactions on my behalf? How do I know I'm
not financial transactions rather, but you know, playing a key
role in them anyway, communicating with my guests for example.
What sort of guarantees can you give me that that
I can trust this person?
Speaker 3 (35:06):
Yeah, I mean, look, I don't think there's anything there,
but look, as a if you're a host, you'd be
able to see, you know, the reviews of the properties
that they currently host and so I think you can
get a sense of, hey, this matches with you know,
what I'm trying to use as far as communication style
and this, and that they have a variety of different
(35:26):
compensation options, so you can, you know, charge all different
you know, you can split the revenue in a bunch
of different ways there. So I think it's at least
something interesting for them to try. And I'm I'm generally
just a big believer in creating marketplaces where you know,
you can actually see lots of competition in in one
(35:46):
place and so I like the idea of this at
least in that, Hey, you can easily see a bunch
of different people that can help you with whatever your
problem is in one place, and that to me is interesting,
even if you don't know how it's gonna work out.
Speaker 5 (36:00):
Yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
I think it's a compelling offering that they're putting together here,
and if it allows you to attract that next incremental
host on your platform because of the opportunity to do this,
then it's probably worthwhile on them. And not really a
big lift either, would be my guess.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Taking a look at markets as we head towards the
top of the hour here, that was now up one
hundred and twenty five points S and P of nineteen,
Nasdaq up one oh one, so about a third to
a half percent gains now, as indices are off their
lows of the day in all three major US indices
in positive territory. The ten year Treasury continuing to sell
off now at four point h nine percent, so a
(36:38):
little bit of weakness and bonds after you know, it's
kind of pingpong around the low fours for the last
couple of days, and oil flat on the day, down
three cents a barrel to seventy thirty six after the
weekly Energy Information Administration report that came out a little
bit earlier in the morning. We're done for the day,
back tomorrow to finish the week, and we will see
(36:59):
you then on the Financial Exchange
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(01:04):
by Veterans Development Corporation. This is the Financial Exchange with
Chuck Zada and Mike Armstrong.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Chuck, Mike and Tucker with you here.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
And as we get into the second hour of the program,
we've got stocks still very slightly positive, but well off
their highs from earlier in the day. The S and
P five hundred did hit a new all time intra
day high of fifty eight seventy five, but sits right
now at fifty eight to forty six, up just three
points rather than the thirty two it was up earlier
in the day. We got the Dow up sixty six
(01:39):
points about zero point one five percent, and the NASDAK
up twenty nine points point one six percent. The Nasdaq
at eighteen three ninety seven right now, but had been
assist eighteen five thirty seven, so giving up about one
hundred and fifty points of gains and now getting you know,
closer to flat on the day. Ten year Treasury selling
off a bit up to four point one percent, up
(02:01):
eight bases points, and we've got oil up twenty four
cents a barrel to seventy sixty two as it continues
to flutter around that seventy dollars per barrel mark, gas
prices nationally resuming their downward move, down eight tens of
a cent to three nineteen and six tenths so back
below three twenty. We'll see if there's any momentum in
that direction now that oil prices are back around seventy
(02:21):
instead of hanging out closer to seventy three to seventy
five as they were, and gold up twenty dollars and
ten cents an ounce to twenty seven to eleven and
forty cents, also a new all time high for gold
today that is holding its gains better than we're seeing
in equity markets right now, Mike, anything catching your.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Eye, no, sir?
Speaker 3 (02:42):
All right, let's talk about this piece from the blooming Berg.
Then it's titled The Math says it's getting harder to
break into the American middle class, and specifically it's talking about,
you know, some of the milestones that people typically thought
of in terms of, hey, a middle class family should
be able to afford this, things like cars, homes, vacations,
(03:04):
those types of things.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
And let's let's dig into it. What are we.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Seeing, Mike, in terms of, you know, is it actually
becoming harder for the middle class to afford these things.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
I think pretty clearly on the housing side, it's a
very compelling argument, at least.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
To start one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
August of twenty sixteen, the median single family home was
going for two hundred and forty two thousand dollars. Today
it's four hundred and twenty two thousand dollars.
Speaker 5 (03:31):
Now, you could look.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
At that and obviously you know, massive price increase, but
they do it in an interesting way, which is, Okay, well,
if I need to come up with a down payment,
how long is it going to take me to do that.
The standard twenty percent down payment on a medium priced
home now costs eighty three percent of a year's income
for the you know, typical family. That's up from sixty
(03:53):
five percent back in twenty sixteen. So, whether you look
at it from purely a dollars perspective and inflation adjusted perspective,
or even compare it to hey, how is my wage
kept up with the price of housing, the clear answer
is Americans have fallen behind in almost every way you
can measure of somebody getting into a new home in
twenty twenty four compared to twenty sixteen, and I think
(04:15):
that's probably the one that is most relatable for people
out there, and probably also expresses a large degree of
the frustration out there, because few things out there are
more connected to the American dream than buying a home.
I'm trying to think of what else would be there.
I mean, maybe a college or post high school education
(04:38):
is another part of that American dream, but not to
me in the same way that housing is.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Let's talk a little bit about the car side of things,
just because I do think this is one where there's
some meat on the bone in the other direction. According
to data from Cox Automotive in August of twenty sixteen,
the average monthly car payment then was four hundred and
seventy eight dollars a month and eighty five cents. By
August of twenty twenty four, it was seven hundred and
(05:03):
thirty seven dollars and two cents. And you know, this
is used as an illustration of Hey, like cars are
becoming unaffordable, and I think that that's just because as Americans.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Two things are true.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
The first is the Americans that buy and large buy
new cars do tend to be wealthier.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
To begin with. Yep, like it's it's if you will
get the data.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
That's just what we see, and as a result, they
don't choose the economical options that are out there. And
I went to Ford's website just as an example, just
because I wanted to pull it up. Remember, the average
transaction price for a new vehicle these days is like
forty eight thousand dollars, which would make you think like, hey,
like I guess like there's just really expensive stuff available.
(05:43):
You go to Ford's website and just in the SUV's
and cars page, two different models available, the Escape and
Bronco below thirty thousand dollars. Now you have to get
the base model. But Mike, is there anything wrong with
the base model?
Speaker 4 (05:57):
No, my first car was stick shift with roller w Yeah,
exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I'd like it till year old hand me down minivan,
you know, like it was. It was fine, It was great.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Actually.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
On the truck side of things, even if you want
F one fifty, you can get a base model for
thirty seven thousand if you're content with a Ranger, a
Maverick thirty two twenty three thousand, respectively. So there are
cheaper vehicles available. You go to let's let's take a
look at Honda, just as an example, if you go
to their website and say, okay, what's available if you
(06:29):
wanted to go buy a Honda. Fords aren't your things
you're looking for a Honda, Okay. The HRV starts at
twenty five, The CRV starts at thirty for cars, the
Civic starts at twenty four, the Accords at twenty eight.
The Accord hybrid even if you're saying, hey, I want
to get some better gas miled, you're at thirty three.
Sure it doesn't have the panoramic moon roof in the
you know sut well, then forget about it, chuck. It
(06:50):
doesn't have the seats that you know, massage you while
you're driving, which I'm sure is probably not like the
safest thing.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Maybe it's not that good of a massage, I guess.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
But look, all I'm trying to say is on the
car piece. The reason why that car payment, that average
car payment is up isn't because there aren't cheaper vehicles
available to because Americans are choosing the more expensive ones.
And that's on us, not on the economy. Like, if
you're choosing to make that payment, you're saying, I can
(07:18):
do this.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Yeah, the car purchase scenarios in the United States is
just it's stupid, and I don't think it tells you
much about the unaffordability of the American economy. The cars
that people are driving these days are far nicer, far
higher quality than they were before and costly for a reason,
and we're driving that. There's a reason that Ford decided
(07:43):
not to sell sedans anymore, and it's not because they
thought they were JUNKI cars. It's because all of us
refused to buy them. So I'm not going to really
go on that side of things. I think on the
other two areas that they talk about again, I find
these interesting. Childcare was unaffordable in twenty sixteen, remains very
(08:04):
unaffordable even more so today, and is a legitimate problem
that I don't think has much to do with choice
type decisions other than you know, we have dual working
households a lot more commonly today than we did sixty
years ago, and I don't really have a market based
solution to that problem there.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
So here's one thing that like when when we look
at a couple pieces of data here, and I'm just
gonna look at that childcare one as an example. So
the childcare cost again, you noted it was unaffordable in
twenty sixteen. The prices are up about fifty percent over that.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Eight year period that we're looking at.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
If you look at wage growth over the same time,
and again, like, this is the other thing that I
find kind of bothersome about this piece is it shows
the price growth without showing the wage growth, right, and
so yeah, like if you were still making the exact
same money you were making in twenty sixteen, Okay, Like
(09:08):
that's you're like, yeah, this is a real problem. But
here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
If you look at wage growth over that time.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
I'm just trying to get the exact numbers, and I
don't have them yet, but I do know that over
the previous three years we were around twenty percent. And
even if we just look at you know, the historical
average I think is like three and a half. So
even if we just apply that average wage growth over
that you know, sixteen seventeen, eighteen nineteen period, and I'll
throw in twenty because again we were looking twenty one
(09:36):
through twenty three, you're talking about another fifteen percent and
change on top of that. So, yeah, the cost of
daycare went up fifty percent, wages went up call it
thirty five to thirty seven. So, yes, it has gotten
more expensive. But it's not like you're sitting there saying,
my wages haven't gone up at all since twenty sixteen
in most cases.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Yeah, So I just ran a quick number from UH
from the Saint Louis FED. I'm seeing through twenty twenty three,
wages up about thirty six and a half percent since
twenty sixty.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Thing I was right on, So thank you exactly. So, yes,
you can make a case on childcare. Hey, in real terms,
it's gotten like fifteen percent more expensive.
Speaker 5 (10:14):
But not fifty percent more expensive.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Correct, So I'm not saying that that's good, like it's
still bad, but this is something where you have to
provide the context because again, wages have gone up over
that time too. And so I think the place is
where Americans are looking at it and saying, hey, this
is the problem. Yeah, homes, childcare, college, healthcare. I think
(10:41):
those are very reasonable places where the cost of all
those has dramatically outstripped wages.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Real problem the.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Auto side of things, we make some bad choices, and
on the vacation side of things, the biggest complaint that
I hear is that like everything's just so much more
crowded than it used to be.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
But that's because there's more people.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Like you can't you can't simultaneously be like, hey, we're
not having enough babies and then complain when Disney World's
too crowded.
Speaker 5 (11:06):
College.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
I will just spend a moment, you know, going back
the inflation that we've seen on college expenses, what's it
average like seven percent.
Speaker 5 (11:13):
A year over the last few decades.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
It's been hot.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
That also is a lot of choice playing into it, right, Like,
there are tremendously affordable community colleges and state universities and
of people today. And again, the reason that Harvard and
Boston College and Boston University get to charge seventy eighty
ninety thousand dollars a year intuition is very simply because
(11:36):
we choose to go there one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Just take a quick break here when we come back,
joined by Mark Hamrick from bank Rate, talking about Americans
and their top economic issues for the twenty twenty four election.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
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Speaker 6 (12:06):
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(12:28):
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Speaker 4 (12:41):
Joining us now is Mark Hamrick from bank Rate. They've
done a survey on the top economic issues for the
upcoming election. Mark, thanks for joining us. Appreciate it.
Speaker 7 (12:49):
Good to be with you, gentlemen. You were on a
roll there before the break. If I should be interrupted,
maybe you need a coffee break, a refuel.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
But it's all good well Mark.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
We're heading in to, as far as I can tell,
one of the closest elections in recent history. Here betting
markets have this thing in a dead heat. Donald Trump
slightly favored on sites like predict It according to five thirty.
Speaker 5 (13:14):
Eight polling averages.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
You've got Harris slightly ahead on national polls, but all
of the almost all of the swing states in a
dead heat as well. So one of the closest in
terms of those being polled in recent history. As always,
Americans very focused on the economy as we head into
election season, and given that seems to be an immense
amount of concern about inflation. What did your survey find
(13:36):
regarding Americans views on inflation right now?
Speaker 7 (13:39):
Yeah, So we asked Americans to pick their top three
economic issues from a list, and inflation comes in a
number one from forty one percent of the participants. I
think though, that it really bears closer examination when we
dig beneath the surface, because indicative of these divided times
(14:00):
that you're talking about there, with the potential closeness of
essentially you know, when we get a result the day
after election day or do we have to wait a while.
If you go down the list, it's twenty eight percent
of Democrats putting inflation up there, twice as many among Republicans.
And then you go to the second and third issues overall,
(14:21):
which is related to some of the things you were
talking about before the break. Number two is healthcare costs.
Number three is the affordability or lack thereof, of housing.
You go to the Republican side. Interestingly enough, inflation, as
I mentioned, is more elevated than it is for the
broader population as a whole. A government spending Interestingly enough
(14:44):
is number two, which just is a bit of a
conundrum to me, given the fact that Donald Trump is
not the spokesman for fiscal responsibility, and then healthcare cost
being number three. So interesting times in which we live.
I'd also add that when we asked whether the economy
is going in the right direction, essentially Democrats said yes
(15:06):
and Republicans four out of five Republicans said no.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Part of Harris's recent campaign has been trying to separate
herself a little bit from the Biden administration. She attempted
that with her Fox News interview recently, where do Americans
view favorability in terms of the economy Trump versus Harris?
Speaker 7 (15:25):
When you pulled them, yeah, it's a narrow gap, but
Trump wins in all three of the categories that we isolated,
which were the personal financial situation, which candidates best for that,
the economy and inflation. The average is about four points.
But what I would note, and I think this gets
related to something that's critical as we try to figure
(15:46):
out how all this turns out, is I think there
are still, believe it or not, a fair number of
people who are potentially persuadable on this question, which is
all about why the interviews are being done. So for example,
on the economy, seven percent said neither candidate, an eight
percent said don't know. That goes up to twenty one
percent in the total of neither and don't know on
(16:08):
the personal financial situation. So you know, not trying to
give anybody sort of, you know, a gimme on a
putt or an extra shot on the golf course here.
But obviously Harris didn't know she was going to be
in this position until you know that happened, right, and
so you know, part of the process probably should acknowledge that,
(16:31):
you know, you're putting a campaign together essentially on the fly.
But we're obviously past that point now. And obviously two
both of these candidates are spending more and more time
with media sources to try to amplify their messages.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
Mark, you have a lot of different data here generation
wise in demographics, and you know that's important in terms
of propensity to vote, right, who's most likely to show
up this election? And historically it's been older Americans more
likely to vote than their younger counterparts.
Speaker 5 (17:00):
How do views diverge on that piece.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Of the economy and inflation when you look at baby
boomers compared to millennials and Gen z ers for example.
Speaker 7 (17:08):
Yeah, well, you know, we just think about how these
issues affect people differently, right in the sense of we're
all in a different station of our life and financial journey,
and so what might be of concern to me as
someone who's been you know, in the cohort that would
have qualified for ARP membership for many years, as opposed
(17:29):
to someone who's early in their career trajectories. It's about aspirations,
it's about needing to accomplish our financial goals. And so
if one's older, you're more concerned about health care costs
and prescription drugs because you need them, right, you're utilizing
those products. If you're younger, you're you are concerned about
those affordability issues such as healthcare costs, affordable housing of
(17:53):
the job market, and that's sort of the way it
breaks down. You know, as a candid date, they need
to address these issues broadly. And I would say, I think,
you know, it's easy to be a critic here sitting
on the sidelines, but I do feel as if the
(18:14):
level of thorough and serious discussion about, for example, the
inflation question has been you know, zero right now. The
other part of that is the president doesn't have a
lever in the Oval office to turn inflation off. So
there's both disingenuousness on that you know, oh, oh, we're going.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
To fix it.
Speaker 7 (18:33):
Both of the candidates have basically said that I don't
like this discussion about so called greedy corporations or price gouging.
That's not the primary reason that we've had inflation. And
certainly tariffs and mass deportations on the Republican side and
up to maybe seven to ten trillion dollars in government
spending on the Republican side, that's not going to help
inflation either. So I feel like the American public is
(18:56):
either not being talked with or being talked down to,
broadly speaking, and then it's up for Americans to decide
which box they're going to check off there.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
Mark Hamrick from bankret joining us for their recent survey
on Americans top economic issues heading into that twenty twenty
four election. Marks, thanks so much for joining us. Really
good piece and I enjoyed talking to you today.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Always a pleasure.
Speaker 7 (19:19):
Thanks for having.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Bringing the latest financial news straight to your radio every day.
It's the Financial Exchange on the Financial Exchange Radio Network.
Text us at six one seven three, six two one
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and let us know what you think about the stories
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Speaker 3 (19:55):
Mike, I had an interesting realization this morning. Did you
I did. I'm too stupid to understand the tax code anymore.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
I've been saying this to a lot of people recently,
but it almost seems as though Congress keeps writing rules
for the explicit purpose of keeping people like me employed.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Let me put on my my it's so complicated.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Let me put on my tax code hat here.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Okay, So for twenty twenty five, here's what you can do.
If you're between the ages of well, if you're over
age fifty, you can contribute your extra money into a
four or one K. That's your regular ketchup contribution if
you are between age of sixty and sixty three but
not over sixty three, even if you're still working, then
(20:46):
you can do a super ketchup contribution that is one
hundred and fifty percent of the ketchup limit or ten
thousand dollars or ten thousand dollars, whichever is greater. And
but here's the thing starting next, Steer, the way it
works is, if you earn more than one hundred and
forty five thousand dollars from a single employer in a
single year, you're gonna have to do that into a
(21:08):
wrath four one K, not a traditional four one K.
And but if you earn that much from two different employers,
it's fine. I mean, Mike, what are we doing here,
aside from creating unenforceable rules that people don't understand.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
This is stupid.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
It is incredibly stupid, And I genuinely look at it
and like, I don't know who came up with this.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Why you're going to have more tax fraud because of this.
First and foremost, it makes zero sense at all. I
can understand why you would let people over the age
of fifty contribute more to a four oh one K
I can at least get there and understand it.
Speaker 5 (21:47):
It makes no.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Sense to me at all that you would have some
narrow gap for folks between the ages of sixty to
sixty three, specifically to contribute more than everybodybody.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Else plus sixty. At sixty four, it's no longer important.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
I guess I have no idea the logic behind this,
and I genuinely feel bad for everybody out there trying
to navigate this, Like, how is any individual who is
not some expert on the tax code supposed to follow
any of this? And frankly, how are the for one
K providers even supposed to administer and and help employees
(22:27):
understand all of this. It's a cluster, and like I said,
it seems it's almost as though it is designed for
the explicit purpose of making sure that accountants, four one
K providers and financial advisors have permanent job security.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
It's so silly.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
It's absolutely ridiculous that this is where we landed on this.
And look, I get that the way that this ends up,
the way they get here to this convoluted train wreck
of whatever this is is correct to point O is
what it's called whatever, the train Wreck Act two point one,
(23:04):
I don't care what it is. The way they get
here is they're like, well, these are the revenue targets
that we need to have each year, and here's how
we do it. But they don't think of the real
world impact in any way like that. That's how you
end up with something where yes, you can do a
super catchup from age sixty to sixty three, but not
sixty four, sixty five, sixty six or sixty seven, even
(23:24):
though full retirement age now is age sixty seven.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
They are making it so again, you know, so complicated.
They're making it complicated enough that even the IRS is
taking like two three years to interpret what the hell
they're trying to say. Four one K providers like the IRS,
this your endorser, this can't understand how it all works.
The four one K providers out there, they're like, this
is crazy. We did an extra two years to implement
(23:51):
what you're talking about because it's so insane what you're
trying to put together here.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
It is just.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
I mean, yeah, grateful, it's because like it gives me
permanent job security. Because no one can possibly figure this
out on their own, they delay.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
The implementation They delayed the implementation by two years because
they realized that no one was going to be ready
to do it because it's such a mess. Yeah, just
let people save the money.
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Speaker 3 (25:25):
Mike, you want to talk food prices or metastaff using
their meal creda.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Okay, this this is a great one here.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
So from the Financial Times, Meta has fired about two
dozen staff in Los Angeles for using their twenty five
dollars daily meal credits to buy household items including acne pads, wineglasses,
and laundry detertion. Now, supposedly this was over a long
period of times, so that it wasn't like they did
this once and you know, ended up getting caught. They
indicated that this was, you know, something that was you know,
(25:57):
a repeated infraction. Couple things here. I don't know exactly
how much all of these employees were making, but i'd
imagine if you're working for Meta, even in you know,
a relatively low level role.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
Let's put it this way, the cleaning staff isn't getting.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
These meal vous.
Speaker 6 (26:17):
I think I read one salary was four hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yeah, So here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
You're making four hundred grand a year, Yeah, and you
decide to throw it away over some twenty five dollars
meal vouchers.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
I mean, what are you really doing here?
Speaker 5 (26:36):
I would fire these people totally.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I'm not saying that MET is wrong, like, no, I
MET is completely right on this.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
It's totally justified. You are abusing a benefit that we
are trying to use to induce you to get to
the office. And it speaks to your character if you're
willing to rip off your employer like this.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
What in one lunch, I wasn't hungry.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
Yeah, so I bought pads instead for my sixteen year
old kid. You make four hundred thousand dollars a year here,
we pay you pretty well. Just use the benefit for
what it's for. Stop abusing us. Look, I mean Meta
is not exactly the most pitiable institution out there, but
one hundred percent. I would fire these people in one
(27:20):
post how do you trust them? In one post on
the anonymous messaging platform blind. So they went to an
anonymous internet platform and actually wrote about this, like further
proving just man, like, what are you?
Speaker 2 (27:33):
What are you doing?
Speaker 3 (27:35):
One form of metastaffer wrote that they had used twenty
five dollars credits on items such as toothpaste and tea
from the pharmacy rite aid, adding on days where I
would not be eating at the office, like if my
husband was cooking, or if I was grabbing dinner with friends,
I figured I ought to not waste the dinner credit.
The person who indicated they had a salary of about
four hundred thousand at META and work nights and weekends
wrote they had admitted to the oversight when human resources investigated,
(27:57):
before later being unexpectedly fired. I what are you doing.
If Meta wanted to just give you an extra twenty
five dollars a day, then they would raise your salary
by five thousand dollars a year.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
Just this falls into the same level of stupidity to
me as the teenagers who were.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Out of checks.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Yeah, the ones that were check cuting with Fidelity and Chase, Like,
I mean, I have.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
Lower expectations for those folks. But this, you know, you're
paid four hundred thousand dollars for META and you're ripping
them off for twenty bucks and you get fired over it.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Right, Don't don't defraud your employer.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
Don't don't defraud it's especially not the hand that feeds you.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
It's right, like, man, you're making four hundred grand a year.
You just cost yourself your job over a one percent
bump in your income without Let's take a quick break
and we'll finish up with a little bit of stack
ruline after this.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
This is your home for the most comprehensive coverage of
the economy and the trends on Wall Street. This is
the Financial Exchange Radio Network. Find daily interviews and full
shows of the Financial Exchange on how Are YouTube page.
Get cut up on anything and everything you might have missed.
This is the Financial Exchange Radio Network.
Speaker 6 (29:23):
Trivia question today was what was the original name of
candy corn?
Speaker 5 (29:28):
That would be chicken feed.
Speaker 6 (29:30):
Steve from Middleton, New Hampshire was our winner today, taking
home a Financial Exchange.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Show T shirt.
Speaker 6 (29:35):
Steve is also registered to win a one hundred dollars
gift card two Applebee's which you'll give away tomorrow and
trivia is brought to you by Applebee's. Enjoy half priced
leyn Out appetizers after nine pm, including Excuse Me and
joint Club Applebee's to enjoy exclusive deals and specials. You'll
get a free appetizer just for signing up. Now that's
eating good in the neighborhood. Boyd, we're prohibited dining only.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Mike, what do you have for me for stack rules?
Speaker 4 (30:01):
Uber apparently explored a takeover bid for Expedia, which at
first glance made absolutely zero sense to me. But Kazushawi,
the CEO of Uber, did lead Expedia for a period
of time, for a long period of time. In fact, Expedia,
in addition to their own you know, travel search engine,
(30:22):
owns hotels dot Com as well as Verbo. There might
be some other brands on top of that, but those
are the two that come to mind for me. And
Uber has expressed some interest in becoming kind of an
everything app, as they have in some other countries, especially
in China, where you can you know, go to one
app for all sorts of bookings. And Uber has been
(30:42):
expanding over the few last few years into train bookings,
you know, other areas, and this, you know, could be
a logical next step if they're looking for other things
to add into their application in some way of shape
or form. It spoke to me because I actually just
last month opened up in Expedia credit card. I found
(31:04):
we weren't reliably, you know, flying on the same airlines,
and we're pretty frequently using Verbo when we travel, and
so it made sense to get some cash back via
those means. But I do wonder if this is really
where Uber wants to go into. You know, what is
a very very cyclical, cyclical business. Uber's business, for as
(31:26):
much as we talk about it being volatile and all
sorts of labor issues, it's not terribly cyclical. Like in
the event of a recession, I would imagine people are
still taking ubers by and large, and so this would
be a step in a very different direction for them.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
Like I don't know, I mean, Uber's only really existed
in a time when there hasn't been a recession. Yeah,
that's fair, And I don't know enough about how I
don't know enough about like the economics of the taxi
business to know how that would be, you know, impacted
in recessions.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
Now that I do, Now that I say that, I
do know that Fidelity had this famous chart room and
one of those was I think taxicab volumes in maybe
New York City, to look at that as a recession indicator,
and certainly when you think about taxicab volumes in New York.
That would be a pretty key indicator of employment and
economic activity going on in the nation. So maybe there's
(32:20):
more to that than I realized.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
I think the big thing with Uber is, look, they're
growing at growth right now of about ten percent on
the revenue side of things. Okay, that starts to look
like a fairly mature company. When you're getting into that range,
you're training thirty six times forward earnings, How are you
gonna grow revenue in earnings?
Speaker 5 (32:38):
Right?
Speaker 3 (32:39):
They need something else to get into I think is
part of it.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Does all that other stuff you know, kind of fit
the bill?
Speaker 4 (32:47):
I don't really know, And honestly like, okay, if they
did this fold up and suddenly I was getting the
same rewards that I get from booking on other places
via Uber rides too, it probably wouldn't shoplift anymore when
I go look for a ride, So maybe there's something
to that.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Sticking with kind of that travel technology space, Airbnb, they
launched a new section on their app, and basically what
it allows for people to do is if they want
to list a rental, but have someone else who's already
on the platform manage the rental and take a cut
of the revenue.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
You can do that now.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
So let's say there's a host who you know, they
own you know, two units of their own and they're saying, Hey,
I'm looking to you know, make more money, but I
can't afford to buy another unit right now. Hey, I'm
really good at you know, this hosting thing. Does anyone
need you know a host? Okay, great, they can take over. Basically,
it's it's almost like being able to hire a management
company directly on the platform, with the management companies being
(33:51):
you know, other users who are you know, currently hosts
of different properties.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
And I gotta say this is kind of interesting to me.
Speaker 5 (34:02):
It is to me too.
Speaker 4 (34:05):
My question would be the confidence and trust, right, Like,
I get that there's an Airbnb institution in between you
and that helps. But on the other hand, I probably
wouldn't hire a property manager off of Craigslist. And so,
you know, how much trust and reliability can Airbnb give
me in this transaction, because that's a tough putt compared
(34:26):
to hiring There's you know, dozens of other property managers.
I'm forgetting the name of them now, but you know
other property managers that do this exact thing at an
institutional level, have years of experience doing it, sure have
written reviews. So, you know, Airbnb, what can you do
for me to give me confidence that that person who
is now managing my tenants entering my home and handling
(34:50):
financial transactions on my behalf? How do I know I'm
not financial transactions rather, but you know, playing a key
role in them anyway, communicating with my guests for example.
What sort of guarantees can you give me that that
I can trust this person?
Speaker 3 (35:06):
Yeah, I mean, look, I don't think there's anything there,
but look, as a if you're a host, you'd be
able to see, you know, the reviews of the properties
that they currently host and so I think you can
get a sense of, hey, this matches with you know,
what I'm trying to use as far as communication style
and this, and that they have a variety of different
(35:26):
compensation options, so you can, you know, charge all different
you know, you can split the revenue in a bunch
of different ways there. So I think it's at least
something interesting for them to try. And I'm I'm generally
just a big believer in creating marketplaces where you know,
you can actually see lots of competition in in one
(35:46):
place and so I like the idea of this at
least in that, Hey, you can easily see a bunch
of different people that can help you with whatever your
problem is in one place, and that to me is interesting,
even if you don't know how it's gonna work out.
Speaker 5 (36:00):
Yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
I think it's a compelling offering that they're putting together here,
and if it allows you to attract that next incremental
host on your platform because of the opportunity to do this,
then it's probably worthwhile on them. And not really a
big lift either, would be my guess.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Taking a look at markets as we head towards the
top of the hour here, that was now up one
hundred and twenty five points S and P of nineteen,
Nasdaq up one oh one, so about a third to
a half percent gains now, as indices are off their
lows of the day in all three major US indices
in positive territory. The ten year Treasury continuing to sell
off now at four point h nine percent, so a
(36:38):
little bit of weakness and bonds after you know, it's
kind of pingpong around the low fours for the last
couple of days, and oil flat on the day, down
three cents a barrel to seventy thirty six after the
weekly Energy Information Administration report that came out a little
bit earlier in the morning. We're done for the day,
back tomorrow to finish the week, and we will see
(36:59):
you then on the Financial Exchange
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