Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. West Michigan Weekend is
a weekly program designed to inform and enlighten on a
wide range of public policy issues, as well as news
and current events. Now here's your host, Phil Tower.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome in.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
It's West Michigan Weekend from iHeartRadio. Thank you so much
for listening. I'm your host, Phil Tower. Please to bring
you one of our CEOs. You should know conversations with
something that we've not yet brought you on the radio
as a part of this program. My conversation several weeks
ago with Elton andras Knight, CEO of MAO USA. MAO
USA is the tenth largest craft.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Brewer in the United States.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
They're also the owner of Founders Brewing, originally started here
in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Here's my conversation with MAO USA
CEO Elton odres Knight.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Today's guest is no exception.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Please to welcome Elton andres Knight, CEO of MAO USA.
And the connection here in Grand rap is of course
Founders Brewing, which is a part of the MAO brands
of beers, and he is in studio with us. I'm
so excited about this because you had me at Beer
Out and so welcome to the program.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Thank you, Phil, Thank you for having me on the show.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
You've been in Grand Rapids a little over almost two
and a half years, that's right, Yeah, and we're going
to talk about that because I want to know and
I know where listeners would like to know where you're from.
I can tell by your accent you are not born
in America, or at least not as far as I know.
But we are here to talk about your leadership at
(01:38):
MAO USA. You took over as CEO of Founders Brewing
here in February one, twenty twenty two, which seems like
forever ago, about two and a half years. Your previous
leadership was CEO of Avery Brewing in Beautiful Boulder, Colorado.
You've been here now two and a half years. We
won't get into any comparisons, but have you have you
(02:01):
become Grand Rapids normal almost.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Almost, so there's been a pretty busy two and a
half years.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure. Well, we are glad to
have you here. Where are you from originally?
Speaker 4 (02:10):
So, I was born in England, but I've been a
bit of a nomad most of my life. Was brought
up in South America. My mom is English and my
dad is Spanish from Barcelona. I kind of position myself
more as Spanish and English.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Okay, so you were born in what city in England?
Speaker 4 (02:28):
So close to Staffordshire, so in the north mid of England.
Still have family out there, but most of my family
has actually moved to Madrid. To Madrid, Spain.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
It's not a bad place to spend a lifetime. So
tell me a little bit about your background. Specifically, you
are in the beer business. What did you do when
you first got out of school and you said I
need to go make a living.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Where did you start?
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Wow? That was a while ago. Yeah, I didn't really
really know what I wanted to do. I was passionate
about business, but I didn't really know what that meant.
My dad was a sales guy for most of his
life and that's the reason why we moved around a lot.
I wanted to be a bit like that, a bit
like him, trying to figure out my own way. But
(03:18):
I did a whole bunch of stuff, from being a
waiter to working in a travel agency. But my first
real proper job was in an English company, spirits company
called Diajo, which is a pretty well known company brands
like Smirnoff, Johnny Wolfshure and I started in marketing, so
I think that was, you know, mid nineteen ninety nine,
(03:41):
so a while ago, and started in Spain in the
Madrid office, and it was an inflection point obviously in
my life, you know, my first proper job in marketing
in a company that specializes in marketing. I worked there
for thirteen years, and I had the opportunity, really in privilege,
to work in several different countries and regions because it's
(04:04):
a huge multinational. Their marketing headquarters are based in Amsterdam,
so I lived there for a few years. I worked
in the UK, in England, I worked in Ireland, and
obviously most of the time in Spain, and definitely a
great school for marketing, for learning how to build brands
and understanding the consumer, and that kind of set me
on my way. No, thirteen years after working there and
(04:27):
working in as I said, in different countries and brands,
kind of felt like I needed to change, especially because
it was a high travel job. And I got an
opportunity to work in orange Ena SHWEPS, which is a
completely different company with a completely different culture, and the
Spanish office that I worked in had just been bought
by a Japanese company, a conglomerate, and I spent a
(04:50):
couple of years there, but very quickly realized that I
enjoyed alcohol in the positive sense of the word. And
I had the opportunity because my exposs moved to mal
the company that I'm in right now and gave me
an opportunity to join them. And it's a company, it's
a fantastic company, which I'd love to talk about and
(05:10):
give you a bit more detail, but family owned brewery,
seven generations, over one hundred and twenty five years, one
hundred percent family owned, which in the brewing industry, and
for a brewery of that size, it's very unique in
the world. There's very few breweries that have that kind
of scale and independence, and that's allowed them to, I think,
(05:31):
position themselves as something unique and different in the market.
Over four thousand employees, we distributed and brew in seventy
different countries and that's where I started off, so it
was a change. There's obviously a lot of shared skills
that you can apply or reapply from my previous experience
in beer and worked in the international department. So I
(05:55):
started basically working there in what we call the export business,
which is taking Spanish beer and taking that abroad. A
big emphasis from a geographical perspective was Europe, with the
UK being one of the biggest markets for US outside
of Spain, and it was, I guess, a great stepping
stone to get more operational, evolve a little bit more
from the conventional marketing to more trade marketing and getting
(06:18):
closer to the to the customer and the market. And
eventually our parent company now shareholders, decided to look at
opportunities in the US, and the US, as you know,
being a huge beer fan is the biggest, most dynamic, profitable,
innovative I think tip of the spear market for beer
(06:39):
and for drinks in general. And they were looking at
opportunities here for a while. And obviously Craft in his
heyday was making tons of noise, not just in the
US but globally, and all eyes were looking at the
US market and what was going on there. So over
time and they began to invest here in the US
and all right, Avery Brewing in Colorado, as you mentioned before,
(07:04):
I lived there for a few years and my first
stint here in the US and then after I.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Got to stop you there was that a tough move
Spain to.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Go not at all. Colorado is definitely attractive the US
is in general and career wise, it's a no brainer.
The opportunity to evolve from from from marketing, and I
had some limited sales experience, but it was a it's
a it's a game changer from a career perspective and
a development perspective. And and Avery's a jewe It's it's
(07:34):
a it's a great brewery, great beer in a great location.
It's a heavy craft state, so over four hundred breweries,
which is respected and renowned for the quality of their beers.
And then just Colorado is awesome. I love skiing, so
that's one of the best places in the world. I
love the outdoors. It's a very active lifestyle. It was
(07:54):
very easy for me to land on land in there
with my wife and daughter, who must have been just
ten or eleven at that time when we moved over.
But I moved in twenty nineteen end of twenty nineteen,
just when school started. They came over and as you know,
shortly after that, COVID hit, so it was strange to
(08:14):
start in a new country. In a new role in
essence a different company, although it's part of our matrix,
our parent company. But then start working from home now
and that presented a whole bunch of challenges in an
industry that I think has come out very different to
how it came in to COVID and for a whole
bunch of reasons which I'm sure we can discuss, but
(08:37):
great experience there was there for three years, and then
I got the opportunity to come here, and I dove
headfirst to come to Founders, which is a national brand,
fifty states top temprewery in the US, twenty five years
of legacy, kind of inheriting the also work that Mike
Stevens and Dave Angers did you know when they began
(09:01):
this journey just over twenty five years ago. Yeah, that
was That was great.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
You know, Elton, I'm sorry. You know, the two companies
are not.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Very dissimilar founders and avery very similar beers obviously, you know,
locally founded both in Kraft Beer rich states, like you said,
Colorado over four hundred craft breweries.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
I don't know how many we have here in Michigan.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
Michigan is pretty big too.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
It seems like we have four thousand here in Michigan.
But great brands. I was, I was lurking on the website.
You've got Avery's got tweak bourbon, barrel aged coffee stout,
Little Rascal Session, Belgian style wet. I was really just
my moult was watering looking at these Electric Sunshine Fruit,
(09:50):
Target Air, Nomadic Dreamer.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
This.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
My favorite beer name under the Avery beer brands was
Patrol Dog Pale.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Love that.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
And then you've got to tell me, I'm sure you've
had it the Reverend Belgian style quadruple Ale.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Interesting.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
Yeah, I mean there's to your question. I think both
both breweries have a vast portfolio and they're actually indeed
that's what made them attractive, I think in terms of
acquisitions and investments for our parent company. Know when you know,
when the owners of our parent company are brewers themselves
and have been for generations, they're not looking for, you know,
(10:28):
an investment that is economically driven. They're looking to continue
the legacy that they've been building over generations. You know.
And when they spoke to Adam Avery down at Boulder
and you know, and sold the portfolio and the just
a level of innovation and I think disruptiveness that they
brought to the industry, whilst you know, maintaining the high standards.
(10:50):
That was definitely part of the decisions why they were
you know, made sense to invest and partner with Adam
and in the case of founders with Mike and Dave
the same. I mean, these are people who are passionate
about beer that cut no expense in the brewing development
distribution to ensure the highest qualities and standards. And in beer,
consistency of liquid is key. You know, we have one
(11:13):
bad beer, it's difficult to recuperate after that. And you know,
I think our threshold up both breweries is extremely high.
And then the innovation that's part of the DNA, I
would say to be fair of craft in itself. You know,
craft is innovative and breakthrough and all those new flavors
and styles and has been something that has helped build
(11:35):
the category and make it attractive and maybe make it
even in terms of share of voice, bigger than what
it is in terms of share of market. You know, right,
very attractive and very innovative and and I think is
the challenge. You know, as we talked briefly about, you know,
coming out of COVID and how the landscape has changed,
is how do you reframe that in a market that
(11:57):
was before you used to enjoy a lot of tailwind
exponential growth, is now facing some some some some challenges
which are opportunities oversea, but require a certain degree of
change and adaptation to to this new landscape.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
We're speaking, by the way, with Elton Knight. He is
the CEO of MAO U s A. And you can
learn more at m A h o U dot com.
By the way, I was doing a little research earlier,
and what I love about your company, mal Usa is
you actually had a campaign, a social campaign called say
(12:38):
Mao where where you were talking about how kats knew
how to order beer which and it's brilliant in fact,
in the podcast notes for the program, and if you're
hearing us on the radio, check the podcast version, because
I'm going to put the link to that wonderful video
of say mao.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Now you're a marketing guy. Was that your brilliant idea?
Speaker 4 (13:00):
I'm not going to take the credit for it, although
I'd like it's really great. It was somebody that was
back in the day when you know now with an
age it's difficult to pronounce yes, even for Spanish speaking people,
so it's a name that comes from Germany actually, so
that the age you don't actually pronounce. And there's a
backstory to it. So people that live in Madrid are
(13:21):
known as cats because they live at night. Nightlife is
a big part of the Spanish culture and in particular
in particular Madrid, so the Madrilineers are known for that.
And then we thought it would be just a great
gimmick to use the meow of a cat as a
way to be playful and and help consumers understand how
(13:41):
to pronounce the brand and improve the brand call at
the point of sale. But yeah, know it, it was
a fun campaign that we launched. Now, it was quite
a few years ago, actually, I think four or five easily.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
I was quite amused.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
I'm a cad guy and a beer guy, so it
was a perfect marriage, which real quickly it was curious,
you're a marketing guy. I love marketing. Was it tough
to learn about beer you need you needed to know
all about your products? Or were you beer guy who was
just good at marketing?
Speaker 4 (14:13):
I'd probably say I'm a marketeer at heart. Even now
in my current role, I really try not to be
perceived internally as just the market here. I'm sure our
marketing colleagues would appreciate that. Yeah, but no, it's about
the consumer. No, in essence is about the consumer. And
I think at this point, this inflection point of the category,
you know what, we need to recruit a new generation
(14:35):
and re engage our existing consumers, you know, putting the
consumer at the center and basing basing it on. You know,
competing insights about the consumer is all the more relevant.
And that doesn't mean it needs to come at the
expense of innovation or at the expense of the product itself.
Those are the strong pillars that we have built the
(14:55):
brands on and will continue to but we need to
become more consumers centric, and especially in terms of bringing
a new generation of consumers into craft beer, which we're
passionate about and that's part of our big strategic push
for the next few years. It's this next generation.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, that's a great point.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Tastes change, absolutely, they are agandalllyptics of of consumers change.
The needs and motivations change, the consumption occasions change, and
the competition changes too. You know, there's tons of other
categories that are eating away at craft that are being
(15:35):
Yeah that are that are being maybe more effective in
recruiting new consumers. So all of that I think changes
the playing field in a positive way because all it
does is up the game and keeps us on our
toes and and it kind of pushes us to continue
pushing the envelope, as we say in England, which is
all around you know, being ruthless on innovation, being ruthless
on really compelling consumer insights, marrying are brewing tea with
(16:00):
our marketing team so that they can co create propositions
that are super relevant for consumers and attractive for those
who are today not thinking about drinking craft beer.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Yeah you said something Elton before we started recording this
episode which I thought was really important. I wanted to
go back here. We're talking about how much the craft
beer industry has changed just in the last five years
or so. Could it just unpack that a little bit
for our listeners.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
I mean, obviously I'm standing on the shoulders of Mike,
Dave and Adam. You know, these are the guys that
kind of built these companies and when I speak to
them to try and learn from, you know, the twenty
five or thirty year plus experience definitely. When the market
is an expansion, it's you know, you've got tailwind and
(16:50):
there's organic growth coming. It's one thing I think since
the pandemic and all the inflationary pressure we suffered in
you know, towards the end of twenty one, beginning first
half of twenty two, the whole value chain I think
in craft beer has changed. You know, craft beer has
become definitely pinched, if you will, in terms of the
(17:13):
economics behind it. But if you look at it through
the consumer perspective, I think there's a nine thousand plus
breweries today. Our core consumer is aging. New consumers as
I mentioned before, are looking at different propositions outside craft
and all of that when you mix it up, creates
a very different landscape to that you know, five or
ten years ago. And again there's still common denominators that
(17:36):
we need to continue to focus on which were true
then and are still true today. And as I mentioned,
the quality of the product, the importance of DNA and
that being part of our sorry of innovation, and that
being part of our DNA you know, those are those
are aspects of it. But you know, with ever more
competition from both within the category and outside the category.
(17:58):
We're seeing that it's you know, it's a market landscape.
I'm still optimistic and excited about where we're going to
take it. But I think us, as leaders in the category,
both founders and avery, it's up to us to help
reshape what the future looks like. And I think that's
an exciting journey for us for the next five eight years.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
You've used the word innovation a lot, and I really
appreciate that. But I think a lot of this, as
you said, about changing taste different generations of beer drinkers,
or certainly with all the competition that's out there. But
I will tell you, Elton, there's a lot to be
said for sitting in a great tap room like your
taproom down to that is a wonderful social experience. It's
(18:40):
a wonderful gathering place. And I think you're already addressing that.
As far as innovation, you're creating more non alcoholic and
low alcohol brands because younger drinkers, at least what I'm reading,
appreciate having those options. Not just people who don't want
to have alcohol because of a challenge with it, but
people just appreciate the non alcoholic beer options, and they're
(19:05):
really great now compared to what they used to be
twenty years ago.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Yeah, so just a couple of points there. I think.
Evidently the tap room, as you mentioned before, both the
one that we have in Boulder on the one here
in town in Grand Rapids. For me, there are embassies, Yes,
your opportunity with a captive audience to share the best
expression of your brand. No, and that's the way we're
focusing on it. In fact, we've just finished an important
renovation in our type room here in Ground Rapids, which
(19:30):
has the objective of upping the experience and the hospitality
experience for our guests. Second is, you know, we've improved
our food, but we've also put more emphasis on the
innovation of our liquids, and again not at the expense
of our ongoing line of beer. We're beginning to expand
into different different segments now and non alcohol in Europe
(19:53):
is a more mature segment between ten fifteen percent depending
on some of the markets in Europe, and it coexists
with alcoholic beer, and I'm a firm believer that that's
a trend that's going to continue. We're going to see
more of that here in the US, and I think
it's you know, as long as a liquid is good,
and that's to your point, I think that's the Achilles heel.
(20:16):
If you don't have a good liquid, it's never going
to grow. We're we're actually putting some important investments in
the next year here our brewery and in Grand Rapids
to be able to to produce the highest standard non
alcoholic beer and other types of liquids, so like cocktails
and other types of drinks. So yeah, I think that's
(20:36):
it's an important point into you and to your earlier point,
it's around you know, being responsive to the ever changing
consumer trends that we see in especially amongst the younger
and newer generation of drinkers that are entering the market.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
I absolutely love your description as tap rooms as embassies.
I think that's spot on. Elton Knight is with US
CEO of USA. You can learn more in line at
m a h ou dot com. As you heard Elton
say earlier that that h is silent and a company
(21:10):
with an amazing history one hundred and thirty four years,
a global brand and right here now is an owner
of founders brewing in Grand Rapids can continuing a great legacy.
What if you speak about the culture at MAO USA,
what's important to you, what's important to telling your team
(21:31):
members about what your vision of what you want that
company culture to be.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
Absolutely, it's good. That's a good question. It's one that
the leadership team of my myself spent a lot of
time on. And because of all the changing external factors,
it's even more important not to forget all the good
things that the company has in terms of culture, its
heritage and its success, you know, putting that in value
(21:58):
whilst also acknowledging that because of this changing landscape, we're
going to have to be more proactive and brave and
inventive to challenge the status called and challenge the way
we used to do things now, and that unless it's
not communicated clearly and consistently, it creates I wouldn't say confusion,
(22:19):
but it's like, hey, we're changing a lot of things,
and the truth of it is we need to build
on the ingredients that are broad us here, which is people, innovation,
the quality in the community. But as I mentioned before,
being brave and being inventive on this new approach that
we need going forward. So for me, it's all about
(22:40):
over communicating the context of what's going on both within
and outside the brewery, and trying to get as much
participation from our team to co create this new path
of where we want to go going forward. So I
think that's a very different way of how it was
done back in the day because we had a set
(23:01):
path and right now we're still figuring out what the
future is going to bring.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
You've been talking about all aspects of marketing and putting
out new beers and making sure you're changing with the times.
Founders is a new offering, Devil Root. It's an important
product in your line. Talk about that if you would,
how it's important for Founders and the maw USA brands,
if you will.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
Yeah, So I want us to be able to work
in parallel both in reinforcing our existing footprint and craft
beer because I do believe we have headroom and space
for us to grow. That's our core, that's what we're
known for. That's where we feel I would say comfortable
and confident that we're able to continue to grow, which
(23:47):
by the way, we have been doing since the last
sixteen months consecutively in market share, and I'm confident We've
got both the path, the team, the skill set to
do that now and the other big pieces around. I
think we need to diversify our business. And the reason
why I think that's important it's because I think new consumers,
new trends, and new categories, and the skill set that
(24:10):
broad founders to where it is today can trickle over
into these new categories. Non alcoholic beer still requires a
lot of the same ingredients and recipes abstractly speaking, and
so do cocktails. And I think cocktails is a great
example of us reapplying that knowledge and skill set to
(24:31):
a completely different category. So obviously that you require slightly
different skill set production process to be able to do
that successfully, but there's more common denominators in that innovation
that might meet the eye initially. So we're putting our
toes into these different areas in different categories learning and experimenting.
But I see that by twenty thirty, twenty twenty seven,
(24:52):
when we think about our strap plan and where we
want to be in five eight years time, these new
categories will represent an important part of our portfolio and
offering going forward, but never at the expense of our
core business. It's incremental to craft, which is what we're
knowing for and who we are.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
I think a lot of people listening just heard you
say that here in West Michigan or wherever. They're listening
to this conversation and are happy to know that all
day IPA is not going away, and you know your
porter and for my taste, Dirty Bastard, which I love KBS.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
So many great brands and brands that.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Truly are endeared to so many people here in Grand
Rapids in West Michigan. I mean, let's face it, Elton,
this is a city. It was Beer City USA for years,
apparently so many years that they stopped the competition. But
it is important to you to be here in Beer City, USA,
isn't it.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
For sure? It's important to me. It's important to MA
our prown company, but it's especially important to founders and
it's type community of employees and and fan following. I mean,
the brewer is here at staying here. We're investing a lot,
as I mentioned before, in terms of expanding our production capabilities,
investing more into our tap room, which I mentioned before,
we just renovated, which.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
By the way, is beautiful, having been there since the
renovation beautiful. I had a wonderful customer experience just two
days ago, and I must rave about the October Fest
on the radio.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I'm just saying it was fantastic, wonderful.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
I mean, we've put a lot of effort into it
and we continue to do so. So all of this
is all about reinforcing our footprint here. Michigan's super important
for us. It's over twenty percent of our sales. It's
a core market we over index in terms of spend
versus evidently or other states where we focus on. And
I talked to the team, it's all about a must win,
a must win business area for us. So in fact,
(26:49):
you know, we're upping our game in terms of partnerships,
in terms of innovation specific for the state with our
new Michigan posner made specifically just for mission, distributed exclusively
here in state, and even big, big ticket sponsorships, some
of which we've already had for many years, and even
some new ones which are coming out in the next
(27:09):
few weeks, like the University of Michigan Athletics, which we're
proud to sponsor and is something new which we're about
to kick off. In fact, I think this is the
first time we've talked about it publicly, if I'm not mistaken,
So well.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
There you just did. Congratulations, that's that's very exciting.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Real quickly before I run out of time here, Is
there anything I didn't give you a chance to talk
about that you'd just like to share with our listeners.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
No, I mean, I think the big thing for me
is that I think it's super important for us to
be respectful and acknowledge, you know, everything that's brought this
industry to where it is today when we face some
turbulence and some headwind and we're all trying different things.
For me, the big pieces all around really learning from
(27:53):
our history and learning from what brought us to where
we are today. And the reason why is it's not
about changing that, it's about reinterpreting that and finding what
aspects of that we can take with us on this
on this next stage going forward. So as we look
at your you know, as I mentioned before, different categories
and segments and innovations are outside our existing space. This
(28:15):
never comes at the expense of who we are, what
we're knowing for, and what our core business is. And
it's really important, I think, to keep that front of
mind when we talk about where we want to take
this company or you know, influence the industry going forward.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Well said, and fortunate to have your leadership where you're
driving at home every day. Congratulations, Welcome to Grand Rapids.
This is my first time meeting you in person. It's
been a real honor. Anytime I can talk about beer
on the radio or podcasting, it's always a good thing.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Thank you, Alton, Thank you Phil for having me appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
And that is Elton Andra's Night, CEO of Mile USA,
one of our recent CEOs featured on our CEOs You
Should Know feature. You can listen to that podcasts in
the podcast section it would radio. That's our program for
this week. Thank you so much for tuning in. We'll
catch you next week. Right here on this iHeartRadio station, you've.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Been listening to iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. West Michigan Weekend
is a production of Wood Radio and iHeartRadio