In this segment, host Phil Tower welcomes Mike McFall, co-CEO of Biggby Coffee. Mike and business partner Bob Fish helped create one of the great specialty coffee brands in America. Today, Mike is co-CEO with Bob, and BIGGBY has over 250 stores open throughout the Midwest. Mike is the author of Grind, a book that focuses on early-stage businesses, and we spoke with him about his newest book, Grow: Take Your Business from Chaos to Calm*Encore replay from 07-30-23
Online: Michael J. McFall
Biggby Coffee
Online: Michael J. McFall
Biggby Coffee
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. West Michigan Weekend is
a weekly program designed to inform and enlighten on a
wide range of public policy issues, as well as news
and current events. Now here's your host, Phil Tower.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
This is West Michigan Weekend from iHeartRadio. Thank you so
much for tuning in. I am so glad you've joined us.
And in this segment, in fact our entire program, we're
going to go back to an episode of West Michigan
Weekend that we first brought to you in July of
twenty twenty three. I had a chance to spend the
(00:37):
full program with Mike McFall. Mike McFall is the co
CEO of Big Be Coffee. You're familiar with that brand,
especially if you drive around anywhere in West Michigan or Lansing,
Michigan and throughout the state. Mike is the thought leader
in the stakeholder capitalism model and promoter of love in
the workplace. He's really a dynamic guy. He's written two books,
(01:00):
Grind and Grow. He's also a public speaker and a
faculty member and lecture at the University of Michigan. Our
conversation we had in the summer of twenty twenty three
was just after the release of Grow Take Your Business
from Chaos to Colm, one of our most popular interviews
that year. In fact, I'm really excited to share with
(01:20):
you I talk about this in many of our episodes.
We have roughly five hundred episodes of this program for
you to explore at woodradio dot com left hand side
of the page in the podcast section. Be sure to
check it out. But let's just get right into it.
Here's my conversation with Mike McFall, author of Grow Here
on iHeartRadio. Mike actually began his journey with Bigbie a
(01:44):
long time ago as a minimum wage barista. This is
way before, folks. I'm sure Mike will tell us we're
making twenty dollars an hour and he started working at
the original store in East Lansing, Michigan. But before I
read his bio and tell you everything else, we'll learn
a lot about Mike. I want to welcome him to
our program. Mike McFall, thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Thanks for having me Phil, thanks for the opportunity to
be here.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Well at your core, when you're out with friends, maybe
introduced to someone you don't know, do you introduce yourself
as an entrepreneur, as a coffee guy, or do you
say high I'm Mike. I mean, how how do you
you wear so many hats? I'm fascinated by that. I mean,
what hat do you most often claim?
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Well, it's an interesting question. Uh, you know, and I've
never been asked that before, but yeah, I think it
depends on the audience. And and uh, you know, most
recently in the last couple of years, I've actually been
introducing myself as a as a teacher. Uh. And you
know that's if I don't want to get into the whole,
the whole big bee story. And and uh, you know, people,
(02:48):
when you say teacher, there there aren't four hundred questions
that follow that.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
That's fairly true. And not only that. I do know
you do some motivational speaking. You talk with people all
the time. You have a heart for giving back. Have
you always been that kind of a person.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Well, you know, my mom raised me, and you know
she said, she always told me, she said, I don't
care what you do in the world, but you have
to make a positive contribution. And that's what she drilled
into my head growing up. And so you know, that's
what I'm trying to do. I'm really trying to you know,
other than the company, which is I believe is a
positive contribution to the world, I'm also trying to bring
(03:27):
the experiences that I've learned from over the last twenty
five years two people, and you know, hopefully can be helpful.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
What came first the desire to own your own business
or just the desire to go out in the world
and you know, make a dollar and do something you enjoyed.
Talk about that process if you will.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Well, you know, I mentioned what my mom brought to
me growing up. Well, my dad brought to me was
a real sense of adventure. And I think that my
motivation since I was young was to wake up and
have interesting things to do. And life's supposed to be
an ad measure and that's really what's driven me. And you know,
starting this company, and you know, having partnered with Bob
(04:09):
Fish for the last forever, you know, I get to
wake up every single morning and I've got really interesting
things going on. I mean, this conversation here is case
in point.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Now. I appreciate that we're with Mike McFall here on
iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. Co CEO of Big B Coffee,
also an author, a speaker, and a lot more, including entrepreneur.
You released your first book, Grind at August of twenty nineteen.
(04:40):
Now you've got a second book, which we'll be talking
about Grow Take Your Business From Chaos to Calm, just
out in paperback in June of this year. Did you
know you were going to end up writing books someday?
Was that something after a while of running Big B
you thought, I got to start writing this down and
tell my story.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Well, had I not entered the land of Big Beat
way back, I was headed in the direction of academia
and that was that was That's what I was interested in.
And you know, the the lifestyle of being a professor
is pretty extraordinary. And you know, I love reading, I
(05:20):
love writing, I love teaching, and you know I so
you know that everything came full circle for me and
I really lived the best of two worlds. Right now.
I do still manage the business, I'm still active, I
still involved in so much in relation to Big Beat,
but at the same time I get to teach a
class here in ann Arbor, writing books and speaking, So
(05:43):
you know, I got everything got a game full circle
for me, And yeah, I guess the answer is yeah.
I always aspired to write. I'm not sure I ever
believed I would do it, but then once I sat
down and started these projects, I loved doing it like that.
You know, there's I can't I can't say it any
other way. I love sitting down and writing and building
(06:06):
arguments and trying to make sense of things that are
going on in the world for me and hopefully that's helpful.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Which isn't the typical mo of a lot of entrepreneurs
and company ceo successful company CEOs often they've got a
lot of different in things pulling them in different directions,
and that's a unique discipline that you have, Mike. I'm
curious though, and I know our listeners are. I love
the often used quote from a lot of successful business
(06:34):
people that we were an overnight success story twenty years
in the making. I don't know if it was another
coffee guy that said that, but you've heard that quote before.
How did Big B become the juggernaut that it is
today Big B Coffee two hundred and fifty stores open
throughout the Midwest. You are in high growth mode, really
just a great place to work. But how did I
(06:57):
know you hooked up with your partner, Bob. How did
this company to come to be what it is today? Mike?
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Well, you know, we've been focused on building this company
for twenty this twenty eight years now, and you know
what that means is we wake up every single day
and we try to sell one more cup of coffee
tomorrow than we did today. And I regularly get asked
the question and in speaking engagements in the Q and
(07:26):
A part, you know, how did we make the company,
turn the company into what it is you know now
and currently and the success we've had, And really I
attribute that to one word, and that is focus. And
so many entrepreneurs are so highly distractable. And what we
did is we focused on building this one company. We
didn't get distracted. We woke up every single day and
(07:48):
our effort was putting the direction of selling one more
cup of coffee tomorrow than we did today.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Simple as that, and take care of your people along
the way, right, Yeah, And.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
That's something we learned over time. And you know, it
hasn't always been that way. And you know, the book
series is meant to be a progression, and that's a
big part of the progression that Bob and I made
from the early days the bootstrapping entrepreneurial phase to where
we are today, which is, you know, building a sophisticated
(08:20):
leadership team and leading as opposed to you know, being
that you know, that stereotypical entrepreneur, obsessive and medical and
so on.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
I like that description. We're speaking with Mike McFall. He
is co CEO of Big B Coffee. His newest book
is Grow Take Your Business From Chaos to Calm. It's
just out on paperback in June of this year, Amazon
bestseller and number one new release. Also a non fiction
book Awards Silver Medalist, which is very cool. The book
(08:52):
is about becoming the leader your people need you to be.
That's an important distinction, because Mike, there are a lot
of good business people that are not good leaders. Did
you know early on you had leadership qualities?
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I don't think I did you know. I think we
we were doing at any given moment in time, we
were doing what we thought was the appropriate thing to
be doing in the development of our company at whatever stage.
And it became very very clear that in order to
build a sustainable enterprise that we had to transition into
(09:30):
the role of leader. And you know, facilitating the environment
for other people to thrive and for other people to
take responsibility and run the company for us with us,
and so that that is, that's a transition, and it's
a transition that a lot of a lot of entrepreneurs
struggled to make, and it, you know, it was arduous,
(09:50):
was not a straight line path for sure, But at
the end of the day, that's what we're striving for.
I think we're we're relatively close to having completed that
in terms of you know, the whole concept for me
has always been to build the company in a way
that we become irrelevant to the future success of the organization,
(10:11):
and that is that's you know, ultimately, if you can
do that, I think that you have demonstrated that you
are a powerful leader. And to me, that's what it's about.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
It is such an important quality that so often, you know,
they get harshly right they meaning the leaders of those
successful companies, or or maybe they kind of make enough
mistakes along the way and become better leaders with time.
You wrote the book Grow to help people understand about
(10:46):
how important it is to be a good leader. Do
you think good leaders are born or they can be made,
or is it a combination. Mike McFall I think.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
It can be learned. I really believe that, and I
would say my partner and I are are testimonials to that.
And you know, it's it's an evolution, and you do
grow as a leader, and the point of the book
is that, well, one of the points of the book,
one of the primary premises of the book is that
(11:19):
you one of the hardest challenges a leader faces is
knowing who you need to be at a given moment
in time for the organization and for the people within
that organization. And so you know, that doesn't mean that
when you're when you're evolving, that you don't at times
dive back into that entrepreneurial mindset of being obsessed with
(11:41):
the maniacal But but hopefully over time that behavior wanes
and it becomes less and less a part of of you,
your engagement. If that makes sense. I don't know if
that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Oh sure, absolutely, I'm fascinated. And I know there are
people listening to us on the radio right now, maybe
hearing this as a podcast, who dream of starting their
own business, or maybe they're doing something right now and
they're always seeing in the back of the mind I
think I could do this. I think I could do this.
What are the qualities you think make a good business owner,
(12:15):
a good entrepreneur kinds of things. I love your business
philosophy of the simple, be brave, be humble, be aware.
But for that person listening who thinks they want to
start their own business, what would you say to them
in terms of key qualities?
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Well, I think, first and again, it's a you know,
it's a it's a process you go through, but you know,
at the beginning, uh it is it's critically important to
pay attention to the product you're offering and making sure
that you are world class at delivering that product. And
(12:52):
you know, I'm when I'm talking about this, I am
talking about really that startup moment. You know that you
know that first, you know, the first twelve, eighteen, twenty
four months, And what I would tell people is just
go ahead and do it, and you know you're it's
not going to be easy. But at the end of
(13:13):
the day, I think we you know, I don't think
that there's a type cast for the perfect entrepreneur. I mean,
we all have our own strengths and our own weaknesses,
and the key in the premise of the first chapter
of my first book, Grind, is that really the idea
is understanding your strengths your weaknesses so that you can
(13:34):
supplement your weaknesses and leverage your strengths. And but you
really have to work hard to understand how you impact
the business. And once you get into that mindset, then
you can start to put things in place to help
support you. But but no one has a full toolbox.
No one's the perfect entrepreneur. And so that awareness is
what's critical. And you know what traits are important, you know,
(13:57):
I I think that you know. One of the things
that you know I focus on is the ability to sell.
It really is critical. And so if you're an engineer
and you're going to develop the perfect product, and you
think that you put that perfect product in the world
and that it will sell itself, because it's so amazing
(14:18):
to me, that's that's a fallacy. And really what we
need to be doing as entrepreneurs is we need to
be out there in the marketplace selling our product day
in and day out. I worked as a franchise sales
salesman in this company for fifteen years, and that was
my primary role was selling franchise and you know, it's
(14:39):
not glamorous, but it's what I had to do in
order to get the business to where we wanted to be.
So I do think a sales mentality is important and
if that isn't part of your persona that that could
be a struggle. There's a great work by a guy
by named Amar Bide, and I believe is it's a
(15:00):
tough school now, but he wrote a book called the
Economics of New Business, and he studied the INK five
hundred fastest growing companies over a twenty year span and
it was eighty percent of CEOs in the INK five
hundred fastest Growing companies were the primary or only salesperson
in the organization at the start. And so that you know,
(15:24):
I pulled that out of that book and I was like, yep,
I mean, I've always agreed with that. I've never been
able to articulate it that cleanly, but to me, that
is a critical part of starting a company.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I think that's so it's so basic, but it's so important,
and you can't be a good seller if you don't
believe in your product. I run into I think we've
all run into people who are selling trying to sell
us something that you just get a sense they're not
that into and it's a really perceptible thing at least
I see it from my perspective. And let's face it,
(15:58):
Mike McFall as co CEO Big B, there are other
places to get coffee. So you've really got to be
good at selling the Big B advantage, right.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Yeah, and we you know, we have them and I
could I could talk to you for two hours about that, right,
But yeah, we definitely have our advantages in the marketplace,
and you know, we the franchise model that we use,
the business model is is a very powerful mechanism that
our franchisees take and deploy and build their businesses.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
I love it. We're speaking with Mike McFall, co CEO
of Big B Coffee. His newest book, first one was Grind.
You can find that wherever books are sold, and his
newest book has Growed Take your Business from Chaos to Calm,
just out on paperback and everything that we're talking about,
and a lot more. Mike's got a great website, Michael J.
McFall dot com. That's Michael J. And then mc f
(16:53):
a l L dot com. You can even book Mike
to speak to your company. I want to go back
to your essence of business philosophy, be brave, be humble,
be aware. When did you have to be brave? Talk
about some of the biggest challenge of most the stuff
that kept you up at nights early on in history
(17:13):
of big.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
B Well, we had, we've you know, most successful entrepreneurs
have some story right about a moment in time. You know,
we were at one point we were put into default
by our banker. That was grueling and brutal. We did
work our way out of that, you know. I think
the other thing that was always a challenge was just
(17:35):
the monotony of waking up every day and doing what
I needed to do, which was self franchises and run
that mechanism day in and day out for years on end.
And what I really want to make sure people here
in this is that it took a long time. And
you know, there's this notion in the world that the
(17:58):
entrepreneurship is about starting it, building it, scaling it relatively quickly,
and then liquidating it. And in my experience, that doesn't
happen that often. And most people are that start businesses
and grow the business into a successful enterprise. It takes
a long long time and so that to me was
(18:19):
one of the struggles. And you know, today sitting here
there's you know, there's the co CEO of the company
and running a successful business. You know, that's there's a
little bit of glamour to that and so on. But
it was a very very long time, like twenty years
before before the company you know, became something that people
(18:40):
were paying attention to, you know, And so I think that,
to me, that was one of the harder challenges. And
I think a lot of people don't come into the
business thinking that it's going to be you know, five, seven, ten,
fifteen years before they start to feel success.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I like that, Okay, that's be brave, humble. Let's face it, Mike,
there are a lot of really successful CEOs who don't
know the humility thing, or at least have forgotten about that.
Is that a challenge for you or does that come naturally?
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Well? I, you know, I don't know if I'm humble,
like you know, honestly against you know, it takes you know,
writing writing books and so on.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
I mean, is that humble? I don't know. You know,
I do believe that I have a message that I
think people, you know, should should engage about business and
so on. You know, but I think that the humility
thing is really about staying humble and constantly learning. And
(19:42):
I think that that's the piece about humility is that
you have to be aware of the fact that you
don't know, you don't know everything, and in fact, you
don't know very much. And so you know, that's the
piece of humility that I think is really important is
acknowledging that you're you're probably really not that smart, and
that you need to be continuously learning to stay current
(20:06):
and to continue to grow the company.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Michael McFall is with us. He's co CEO of Big
B Coffee, one of the fastest growing coffee franchises in
the country. And you're a Michigan native, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
I grew up in a small town called Milford, Michigan.
That's Maternam Detroit and Lancing and yeah, and I went
to Kalamazoo College. So yeah, I've been I've been reading
to school. Yeah. Yeah, it was a great school. I
love that place. And so, yeah, Michigan is near and
dear to my heart.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
You know.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
I I live in Areba now and you know, it
is uh, it's it's my life.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
And you teach at University of Michigan teach a class
on entrepreneurialism. I am fascinated Mike McFall by, Jen Y
and gen Z. They seem to be very bright, very ambitious,
but also at times very unsettled. Kin, I'm curious, when
(21:05):
you manage and work with these people, what have you
learned about the younger generations, especially you know, the millennials
and beyond.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Well, I'm inspired every time I'm in the classroom, And
you know, it's one of the real benefits I get
from teaching the class is that I get to look
at young people in the classroom who are just so
incredibly bright, and you know, I it helps me with
confidence for the future. And you know, I think that
(21:36):
there isn't you know, there is. I talk about it
like this that when you know people complain about young
people or you know, the the group near the reference
there gen Z and millennials and so on. I believe
that that population wants to be successful, just like every
(22:00):
other generation wants to be successful. The problem is they
enter the world and there's a real dearth of leadership
and we need we as leaders, need to be providing them.
And it's really the whole concept of my book Grow.
We need to be building environments that work for them.
(22:20):
And you know, to think that the environment of corporate
America four years ago is going to work for people
today like that just doesn't make any sense, you know.
And so I think that I am highly motivated by
the young people of today. I think they're amazing, and
you know, there may be unsettled because they're not getting
(22:42):
taken care of in the environments where they show up
the work.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Mike big Fall is with us. His newest book is Grow,
Take Your Business from Chaos to Calm. He's also close
CEO Big B Coffee now with over two hundred and
fifty stores open throughout the Midwest and one probably just
around the corner from you. Mike, I'm fascinated if you're
a hockey guy, your player, and you've coached hockey, I'm
curious to know. I think every sport has a great
(23:10):
analogy for business. What's the best thing that hockey has
taught Mike McFall about owning his own business?
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Well, hockey, to me is the ultimate team sport. And
you step out on the ice and you have your
teammates there and you work together to accomplish, you know,
winning a hockey game. And I think that business is
very much the same way. And you know the other
thing about hockey is you have to be gritty. You know,
(23:42):
you have to be willing to be gritty to be
successful in the game. And I think business is very
much the same way. I mean, you have to wake
up today and you have to do what it takes
in order to propel the business forward. And so that's
to me, that's a great analogy to the game. And uh.
And so it's it's the team component.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
And then also the fact that as a player, you
got to you gotta be one step out on the
ice and do it taste to get the job done.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
So you're away from business, Uh, you've got a free
day and uh, surprisingly you have no cell phone service
where you are. What is Mike McFall going to do
to challenge himself and what a smile on his face?
What what what do you do to to unwind and
enjoy a day?
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Well, I would read, I would read a lot. I
would I love starting my day with. If I could
have a couple hours every morning to read, that would
be my ideal. Uh. And then you know it would
be something like, uh, you know, I probably would play golf.
Golf's always been a big part of my life, same
as hockey, And you know, I would be out with
friends and socializing and playing the game and and enjoying that.
(24:50):
And then you know, after that it would be you know,
something with my family, a barbecue dinner, you know, hanging
out with uh, with my wife and the kids, and
and probably having some friends over and socializing. But really,
what I've discovered about myself in the last you know,
five maybe ten years, is I really truly love reading
(25:13):
and learning.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
It's a lost art on so many people. And I'm
so glad to hear you say that, because it is
such a simple thing that pays huge dividends. Mike McFall
I could go on for another thirty minutes with you.
We're just about out of time. You have so many
great books, and I would love to have you back.
Would you come back so we can talk about vision
(25:35):
and the whole visioning thing. You co wrote a book
on that, and I think I would really be valuable
to our listeners, and we'll talk more about your other books.
And I just I really enjoyed speaking with you. My pleasure.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Phil anytime you name it and I'll be here.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Well, it's it's been a real honor. Your latest book
is Grow, Take your Business from Chaos to call them
And Lord knows if you've ever managed to be bull
or run your own business chaos. It's just kind of
that partner that comes along and you've got to learn detainments.
That's certainly for sure. Great wisdom, great guy, and you
(26:11):
can learn more at Michael J. McFall dot com. His
books are there and a lot more. Mike McFall, it's
been a real honor and pleasure. Thank you, Thank you, Gil,
And my guest was Mike McFall, co CEO of Big
B Coffee. Mike is a lot of things, including a speaker,
a teacher, an author, and just all around great guy.
(26:32):
He began his journey with Big B Coffee as a
minimum wage barista the original Big B store in East
Lansing in nineteen ninety six. He's co CEO today a
Big B. They have over two hundred and fifty stores
throughout the Midwest, and he has written two great books.
Grind is his first book that came out in twenty nineteen.
That's all about starting a business in its early stages.
(26:56):
And how to establish positive gash flow. And Mike's latest book,
which we've been talking with him about is Grow Take
Your Business from Chaos to Calm. That's out on paperback
just as of about a month and a half ago,
and you can get that wherever books are sold. You
can learn all about Michael McFall at michaeljmcfall dot com
(27:18):
michaeljmcfall dot com. And that's my conversation with Bigbe Coffee
co CEO Michael McFall again. The website is Michael jmicfall
dot com. We spoke with him in the summer of
twenty twenty three just after the launch of Grow, all
about becoming the leader your people need you to be.
(27:38):
The book is available wherever books are sold. That's our
program for this week. Thank you for joining us every
Sunday for iHeartMedia and West Michigan Weekend. I'm Phil Tower.
We'll catch you again next week.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Right here, you've been listening to iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend.
West Michigan Weekend is a production.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Of Wood Radio and iHeart Radio.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Yeah
This is iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. West Michigan Weekend is
a weekly program designed to inform and enlighten on a
wide range of public policy issues, as well as news
and current events. Now here's your host, Phil Tower.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
This is West Michigan Weekend from iHeartRadio. Thank you so
much for tuning in. I am so glad you've joined us.
And in this segment, in fact our entire program, we're
going to go back to an episode of West Michigan
Weekend that we first brought to you in July of
twenty twenty three. I had a chance to spend the
(00:37):
full program with Mike McFall. Mike McFall is the co
CEO of Big Be Coffee. You're familiar with that brand,
especially if you drive around anywhere in West Michigan or Lansing,
Michigan and throughout the state. Mike is the thought leader
in the stakeholder capitalism model and promoter of love in
the workplace. He's really a dynamic guy. He's written two books,
(01:00):
Grind and Grow. He's also a public speaker and a
faculty member and lecture at the University of Michigan. Our
conversation we had in the summer of twenty twenty three
was just after the release of Grow Take Your Business
from Chaos to Colm, one of our most popular interviews
that year. In fact, I'm really excited to share with
(01:20):
you I talk about this in many of our episodes.
We have roughly five hundred episodes of this program for
you to explore at woodradio dot com left hand side
of the page in the podcast section. Be sure to
check it out. But let's just get right into it.
Here's my conversation with Mike McFall, author of Grow Here
on iHeartRadio. Mike actually began his journey with Bigbie a
(01:44):
long time ago as a minimum wage barista. This is
way before, folks. I'm sure Mike will tell us we're
making twenty dollars an hour and he started working at
the original store in East Lansing, Michigan. But before I
read his bio and tell you everything else, we'll learn
a lot about Mike. I want to welcome him to
our program. Mike McFall, thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Thanks for having me Phil, thanks for the opportunity to
be here.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Well at your core, when you're out with friends, maybe
introduced to someone you don't know, do you introduce yourself
as an entrepreneur, as a coffee guy, or do you
say high I'm Mike. I mean, how how do you
you wear so many hats? I'm fascinated by that. I mean,
what hat do you most often claim?
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Well, it's an interesting question. Uh, you know, and I've
never been asked that before, but yeah, I think it
depends on the audience. And and uh, you know, most
recently in the last couple of years, I've actually been
introducing myself as a as a teacher. Uh. And you
know that's if I don't want to get into the whole,
the whole big bee story. And and uh, you know, people,
(02:48):
when you say teacher, there there aren't four hundred questions
that follow that.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
That's fairly true. And not only that. I do know
you do some motivational speaking. You talk with people all
the time. You have a heart for giving back. Have
you always been that kind of a person.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Well, you know, my mom raised me, and you know
she said, she always told me, she said, I don't
care what you do in the world, but you have
to make a positive contribution. And that's what she drilled
into my head growing up. And so you know, that's
what I'm trying to do. I'm really trying to you know,
other than the company, which is I believe is a
positive contribution to the world, I'm also trying to bring
(03:27):
the experiences that I've learned from over the last twenty
five years two people, and you know, hopefully can be helpful.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
What came first the desire to own your own business
or just the desire to go out in the world
and you know, make a dollar and do something you enjoyed.
Talk about that process if you will.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Well, you know, I mentioned what my mom brought to
me growing up. Well, my dad brought to me was
a real sense of adventure. And I think that my
motivation since I was young was to wake up and
have interesting things to do. And life's supposed to be
an ad measure and that's really what's driven me. And you know,
starting this company, and you know, having partnered with Bob
(04:09):
Fish for the last forever, you know, I get to
wake up every single morning and I've got really interesting
things going on. I mean, this conversation here is case
in point.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Now. I appreciate that we're with Mike McFall here on
iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. Co CEO of Big B Coffee,
also an author, a speaker, and a lot more, including entrepreneur.
You released your first book, Grind at August of twenty nineteen.
(04:40):
Now you've got a second book, which we'll be talking
about Grow Take Your Business From Chaos to Calm, just
out in paperback in June of this year. Did you
know you were going to end up writing books someday?
Was that something after a while of running Big B
you thought, I got to start writing this down and
tell my story.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Well, had I not entered the land of Big Beat
way back, I was headed in the direction of academia
and that was that was That's what I was interested in.
And you know, the the lifestyle of being a professor
is pretty extraordinary. And you know, I love reading, I
(05:20):
love writing, I love teaching, and you know I so
you know that everything came full circle for me and
I really lived the best of two worlds. Right now.
I do still manage the business, I'm still active, I
still involved in so much in relation to Big Beat,
but at the same time I get to teach a
class here in ann Arbor, writing books and speaking, So
(05:43):
you know, I got everything got a game full circle
for me, And yeah, I guess the answer is yeah.
I always aspired to write. I'm not sure I ever
believed I would do it, but then once I sat
down and started these projects, I loved doing it like that.
You know, there's I can't I can't say it any
other way. I love sitting down and writing and building
(06:06):
arguments and trying to make sense of things that are
going on in the world for me and hopefully that's helpful.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Which isn't the typical mo of a lot of entrepreneurs
and company ceo successful company CEOs often they've got a
lot of different in things pulling them in different directions,
and that's a unique discipline that you have, Mike. I'm
curious though, and I know our listeners are. I love
the often used quote from a lot of successful business
(06:34):
people that we were an overnight success story twenty years
in the making. I don't know if it was another
coffee guy that said that, but you've heard that quote before.
How did Big B become the juggernaut that it is
today Big B Coffee two hundred and fifty stores open
throughout the Midwest. You are in high growth mode, really
just a great place to work. But how did I
(06:57):
know you hooked up with your partner, Bob. How did
this company to come to be what it is today? Mike?
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Well, you know, we've been focused on building this company
for twenty this twenty eight years now, and you know
what that means is we wake up every single day
and we try to sell one more cup of coffee
tomorrow than we did today. And I regularly get asked
the question and in speaking engagements in the Q and
(07:26):
A part, you know, how did we make the company,
turn the company into what it is you know now
and currently and the success we've had, And really I
attribute that to one word, and that is focus. And
so many entrepreneurs are so highly distractable. And what we
did is we focused on building this one company. We
didn't get distracted. We woke up every single day and
(07:48):
our effort was putting the direction of selling one more
cup of coffee tomorrow than we did today.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Simple as that, and take care of your people along
the way, right, Yeah, And.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
That's something we learned over time. And you know, it
hasn't always been that way. And you know, the book
series is meant to be a progression, and that's a
big part of the progression that Bob and I made
from the early days the bootstrapping entrepreneurial phase to where
we are today, which is, you know, building a sophisticated
(08:20):
leadership team and leading as opposed to you know, being
that you know, that stereotypical entrepreneur, obsessive and medical and
so on.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
I like that description. We're speaking with Mike McFall. He
is co CEO of Big B Coffee. His newest book
is Grow Take Your Business From Chaos to Calm. It's
just out on paperback in June of this year, Amazon
bestseller and number one new release. Also a non fiction
book Awards Silver Medalist, which is very cool. The book
(08:52):
is about becoming the leader your people need you to be.
That's an important distinction, because Mike, there are a lot
of good business people that are not good leaders. Did
you know early on you had leadership qualities?
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I don't think I did you know. I think we
we were doing at any given moment in time, we
were doing what we thought was the appropriate thing to
be doing in the development of our company at whatever stage.
And it became very very clear that in order to
build a sustainable enterprise that we had to transition into
(09:30):
the role of leader. And you know, facilitating the environment
for other people to thrive and for other people to
take responsibility and run the company for us with us,
and so that that is, that's a transition, and it's
a transition that a lot of a lot of entrepreneurs
struggled to make, and it, you know, it was arduous,
(09:50):
was not a straight line path for sure, But at
the end of the day, that's what we're striving for.
I think we're we're relatively close to having completed that
in terms of you know, the whole concept for me
has always been to build the company in a way
that we become irrelevant to the future success of the organization,
(10:11):
and that is that's you know, ultimately, if you can
do that, I think that you have demonstrated that you
are a powerful leader. And to me, that's what it's about.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
It is such an important quality that so often, you know,
they get harshly right they meaning the leaders of those
successful companies, or or maybe they kind of make enough
mistakes along the way and become better leaders with time.
You wrote the book Grow to help people understand about
(10:46):
how important it is to be a good leader. Do
you think good leaders are born or they can be made,
or is it a combination. Mike McFall I think.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
It can be learned. I really believe that, and I
would say my partner and I are are testimonials to that.
And you know, it's it's an evolution, and you do
grow as a leader, and the point of the book
is that, well, one of the points of the book,
one of the primary premises of the book is that
(11:19):
you one of the hardest challenges a leader faces is
knowing who you need to be at a given moment
in time for the organization and for the people within
that organization. And so you know, that doesn't mean that
when you're when you're evolving, that you don't at times
dive back into that entrepreneurial mindset of being obsessed with
(11:41):
the maniacal But but hopefully over time that behavior wanes
and it becomes less and less a part of of you,
your engagement. If that makes sense. I don't know if
that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Oh sure, absolutely, I'm fascinated. And I know there are
people listening to us on the radio right now, maybe
hearing this as a podcast, who dream of starting their
own business, or maybe they're doing something right now and
they're always seeing in the back of the mind I
think I could do this. I think I could do this.
What are the qualities you think make a good business owner,
(12:15):
a good entrepreneur kinds of things. I love your business
philosophy of the simple, be brave, be humble, be aware.
But for that person listening who thinks they want to
start their own business, what would you say to them
in terms of key qualities?
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Well, I think, first and again, it's a you know,
it's a it's a process you go through, but you know,
at the beginning, uh it is it's critically important to
pay attention to the product you're offering and making sure
that you are world class at delivering that product. And
(12:52):
you know, I'm when I'm talking about this, I am
talking about really that startup moment. You know that you
know that first, you know, the first twelve, eighteen, twenty
four months, And what I would tell people is just
go ahead and do it, and you know you're it's
not going to be easy. But at the end of
(13:13):
the day, I think we you know, I don't think
that there's a type cast for the perfect entrepreneur. I mean,
we all have our own strengths and our own weaknesses,
and the key in the premise of the first chapter
of my first book, Grind, is that really the idea
is understanding your strengths your weaknesses so that you can
(13:34):
supplement your weaknesses and leverage your strengths. And but you
really have to work hard to understand how you impact
the business. And once you get into that mindset, then
you can start to put things in place to help
support you. But but no one has a full toolbox.
No one's the perfect entrepreneur. And so that awareness is
what's critical. And you know what traits are important, you know,
(13:57):
I I think that you know. One of the things
that you know I focus on is the ability to sell.
It really is critical. And so if you're an engineer
and you're going to develop the perfect product, and you
think that you put that perfect product in the world
and that it will sell itself, because it's so amazing
(14:18):
to me, that's that's a fallacy. And really what we
need to be doing as entrepreneurs is we need to
be out there in the marketplace selling our product day
in and day out. I worked as a franchise sales
salesman in this company for fifteen years, and that was
my primary role was selling franchise and you know, it's
(14:39):
not glamorous, but it's what I had to do in
order to get the business to where we wanted to be.
So I do think a sales mentality is important and
if that isn't part of your persona that that could
be a struggle. There's a great work by a guy
by named Amar Bide, and I believe is it's a
(15:00):
tough school now, but he wrote a book called the
Economics of New Business, and he studied the INK five
hundred fastest growing companies over a twenty year span and
it was eighty percent of CEOs in the INK five
hundred fastest Growing companies were the primary or only salesperson
in the organization at the start. And so that you know,
(15:24):
I pulled that out of that book and I was like, yep,
I mean, I've always agreed with that. I've never been
able to articulate it that cleanly, but to me, that
is a critical part of starting a company.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I think that's so it's so basic, but it's so important,
and you can't be a good seller if you don't
believe in your product. I run into I think we've
all run into people who are selling trying to sell
us something that you just get a sense they're not
that into and it's a really perceptible thing at least
I see it from my perspective. And let's face it,
(15:58):
Mike McFall as co CEO Big B, there are other
places to get coffee. So you've really got to be
good at selling the Big B advantage, right.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Yeah, and we you know, we have them and I
could I could talk to you for two hours about that, right,
But yeah, we definitely have our advantages in the marketplace,
and you know, we the franchise model that we use,
the business model is is a very powerful mechanism that
our franchisees take and deploy and build their businesses.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
I love it. We're speaking with Mike McFall, co CEO
of Big B Coffee. His newest book, first one was Grind.
You can find that wherever books are sold, and his
newest book has Growed Take your Business from Chaos to Calm,
just out on paperback and everything that we're talking about,
and a lot more. Mike's got a great website, Michael J.
McFall dot com. That's Michael J. And then mc f
(16:53):
a l L dot com. You can even book Mike
to speak to your company. I want to go back
to your essence of business philosophy, be brave, be humble,
be aware. When did you have to be brave? Talk
about some of the biggest challenge of most the stuff
that kept you up at nights early on in history
(17:13):
of big.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
B Well, we had, we've you know, most successful entrepreneurs
have some story right about a moment in time. You know,
we were at one point we were put into default
by our banker. That was grueling and brutal. We did
work our way out of that, you know. I think
the other thing that was always a challenge was just
(17:35):
the monotony of waking up every day and doing what
I needed to do, which was self franchises and run
that mechanism day in and day out for years on end.
And what I really want to make sure people here
in this is that it took a long time. And
you know, there's this notion in the world that the
(17:58):
entrepreneurship is about starting it, building it, scaling it relatively quickly,
and then liquidating it. And in my experience, that doesn't
happen that often. And most people are that start businesses
and grow the business into a successful enterprise. It takes
a long long time and so that to me was
(18:19):
one of the struggles. And you know, today sitting here
there's you know, there's the co CEO of the company
and running a successful business. You know, that's there's a
little bit of glamour to that and so on. But
it was a very very long time, like twenty years
before before the company you know, became something that people
(18:40):
were paying attention to, you know, And so I think that,
to me, that was one of the harder challenges. And
I think a lot of people don't come into the
business thinking that it's going to be you know, five, seven, ten,
fifteen years before they start to feel success.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I like that, Okay, that's be brave, humble. Let's face it, Mike,
there are a lot of really successful CEOs who don't
know the humility thing, or at least have forgotten about that.
Is that a challenge for you or does that come naturally?
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Well? I, you know, I don't know if I'm humble,
like you know, honestly against you know, it takes you know,
writing writing books and so on.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
I mean, is that humble? I don't know. You know,
I do believe that I have a message that I
think people, you know, should should engage about business and
so on. You know, but I think that the humility
thing is really about staying humble and constantly learning. And
(19:42):
I think that that's the piece about humility is that
you have to be aware of the fact that you
don't know, you don't know everything, and in fact, you
don't know very much. And so you know, that's the
piece of humility that I think is really important is
acknowledging that you're you're probably really not that smart, and
that you need to be continuously learning to stay current
(20:06):
and to continue to grow the company.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Michael McFall is with us. He's co CEO of Big
B Coffee, one of the fastest growing coffee franchises in
the country. And you're a Michigan native, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
I grew up in a small town called Milford, Michigan.
That's Maternam Detroit and Lancing and yeah, and I went
to Kalamazoo College. So yeah, I've been I've been reading
to school. Yeah. Yeah, it was a great school. I
love that place. And so, yeah, Michigan is near and
dear to my heart.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
You know.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
I I live in Areba now and you know, it
is uh, it's it's my life.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
And you teach at University of Michigan teach a class
on entrepreneurialism. I am fascinated Mike McFall by, Jen Y
and gen Z. They seem to be very bright, very ambitious,
but also at times very unsettled. Kin, I'm curious, when
(21:05):
you manage and work with these people, what have you
learned about the younger generations, especially you know, the millennials
and beyond.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Well, I'm inspired every time I'm in the classroom, And
you know, it's one of the real benefits I get
from teaching the class is that I get to look
at young people in the classroom who are just so
incredibly bright, and you know, I it helps me with
confidence for the future. And you know, I think that
(21:36):
there isn't you know, there is. I talk about it
like this that when you know people complain about young
people or you know, the the group near the reference
there gen Z and millennials and so on. I believe
that that population wants to be successful, just like every
(22:00):
other generation wants to be successful. The problem is they
enter the world and there's a real dearth of leadership
and we need we as leaders, need to be providing them.
And it's really the whole concept of my book Grow.
We need to be building environments that work for them.
(22:20):
And you know, to think that the environment of corporate
America four years ago is going to work for people
today like that just doesn't make any sense, you know.
And so I think that I am highly motivated by
the young people of today. I think they're amazing, and
you know, there may be unsettled because they're not getting
(22:42):
taken care of in the environments where they show up
the work.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Mike big Fall is with us. His newest book is Grow,
Take Your Business from Chaos to Calm. He's also close
CEO Big B Coffee now with over two hundred and
fifty stores open throughout the Midwest and one probably just
around the corner from you. Mike, I'm fascinated if you're
a hockey guy, your player, and you've coached hockey, I'm
curious to know. I think every sport has a great
(23:10):
analogy for business. What's the best thing that hockey has
taught Mike McFall about owning his own business?
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Well, hockey, to me is the ultimate team sport. And
you step out on the ice and you have your
teammates there and you work together to accomplish, you know,
winning a hockey game. And I think that business is
very much the same way. And you know the other
thing about hockey is you have to be gritty. You know,
(23:42):
you have to be willing to be gritty to be
successful in the game. And I think business is very
much the same way. I mean, you have to wake
up today and you have to do what it takes
in order to propel the business forward. And so that's
to me, that's a great analogy to the game. And uh.
And so it's it's the team component.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
And then also the fact that as a player, you
got to you gotta be one step out on the
ice and do it taste to get the job done.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
So you're away from business, Uh, you've got a free
day and uh, surprisingly you have no cell phone service
where you are. What is Mike McFall going to do
to challenge himself and what a smile on his face?
What what what do you do to to unwind and
enjoy a day?
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Well, I would read, I would read a lot. I
would I love starting my day with. If I could
have a couple hours every morning to read, that would
be my ideal. Uh. And then you know it would
be something like, uh, you know, I probably would play golf.
Golf's always been a big part of my life, same
as hockey, And you know, I would be out with
friends and socializing and playing the game and and enjoying that.
(24:50):
And then you know, after that it would be you know,
something with my family, a barbecue dinner, you know, hanging
out with uh, with my wife and the kids, and
and probably having some friends over and socializing. But really,
what I've discovered about myself in the last you know,
five maybe ten years, is I really truly love reading
(25:13):
and learning.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
It's a lost art on so many people. And I'm
so glad to hear you say that, because it is
such a simple thing that pays huge dividends. Mike McFall
I could go on for another thirty minutes with you.
We're just about out of time. You have so many
great books, and I would love to have you back.
Would you come back so we can talk about vision
(25:35):
and the whole visioning thing. You co wrote a book
on that, and I think I would really be valuable
to our listeners, and we'll talk more about your other books.
And I just I really enjoyed speaking with you. My pleasure.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Phil anytime you name it and I'll be here.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Well, it's it's been a real honor. Your latest book
is Grow, Take your Business from Chaos to call them
And Lord knows if you've ever managed to be bull
or run your own business chaos. It's just kind of
that partner that comes along and you've got to learn detainments.
That's certainly for sure. Great wisdom, great guy, and you
(26:11):
can learn more at Michael J. McFall dot com. His
books are there and a lot more. Mike McFall, it's
been a real honor and pleasure. Thank you, Thank you, Gil,
And my guest was Mike McFall, co CEO of Big
B Coffee. Mike is a lot of things, including a speaker,
a teacher, an author, and just all around great guy.
(26:32):
He began his journey with Big B Coffee as a
minimum wage barista the original Big B store in East
Lansing in nineteen ninety six. He's co CEO today a
Big B. They have over two hundred and fifty stores
throughout the Midwest, and he has written two great books.
Grind is his first book that came out in twenty nineteen.
That's all about starting a business in its early stages.
(26:56):
And how to establish positive gash flow. And Mike's latest book,
which we've been talking with him about is Grow Take
Your Business from Chaos to Calm. That's out on paperback
just as of about a month and a half ago,
and you can get that wherever books are sold. You
can learn all about Michael McFall at michaeljmcfall dot com
(27:18):
michaeljmcfall dot com. And that's my conversation with Bigbe Coffee
co CEO Michael McFall again. The website is Michael jmicfall
dot com. We spoke with him in the summer of
twenty twenty three just after the launch of Grow, all
about becoming the leader your people need you to be.
(27:38):
The book is available wherever books are sold. That's our
program for this week. Thank you for joining us every
Sunday for iHeartMedia and West Michigan Weekend. I'm Phil Tower.
We'll catch you again next week.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Right here, you've been listening to iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend.
West Michigan Weekend is a production.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Of Wood Radio and iHeart Radio.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Yeah
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