October 26, 2025 • 27 mins
In this episode, host Phil Tower welcomes Chef Omar Anani...a James Beard nominee and Chopped alum.
We spoke with him during his visit to Traverse City this August for the inaugural Traverse City Food and Wine Event.
Anani is a Palestinian-Egyptian American chef and restaurateur who comes across as confident and highly compassionate.
He is known for proudly and passionately infusing his heritage into his culinary identity and his restaurants.
Amani grew up in Maryland and spent time in Grand Rapids. He spoke with us about the powerful impact of being raised by parents who were supportive and encouraged him. We also spoke about his move to Grand Rapids at the age of 11, and some of his favorite neighborhood hangouts in GR.
Chef Omar began his culinary path early and honed his skills in numerous fine dining kitchens, including at Michael Symon’s Roast.
In 2018, he founded Saffron De Twah, a modern Moroccan bistro on Detroit’s east side. It wasn't long before Saffron De Twah was winning wave reviews from diners and critics alike, for its unique dishes and community-first focus.
Accolades & Recognition for Chef Omar Amani——
***James Beard Award: Two-time finalist for Best Chef – Great Lakes (2022, 2023)
***Chopped: All-American Showdown: Emerged as champion in 2023, representing the North
***Saffron De Twah was named Eater Detroit’s Restaurant of the Year in 2019; recognized among Detroit Free Press’s top restaurants and included in Hour Detroit’s top 10 new restaurants.
Profile of Chef Omar Amani
We spoke with him during his visit to Traverse City this August for the inaugural Traverse City Food and Wine Event.
Anani is a Palestinian-Egyptian American chef and restaurateur who comes across as confident and highly compassionate.
He is known for proudly and passionately infusing his heritage into his culinary identity and his restaurants.
Amani grew up in Maryland and spent time in Grand Rapids. He spoke with us about the powerful impact of being raised by parents who were supportive and encouraged him. We also spoke about his move to Grand Rapids at the age of 11, and some of his favorite neighborhood hangouts in GR.
Chef Omar began his culinary path early and honed his skills in numerous fine dining kitchens, including at Michael Symon’s Roast.
In 2018, he founded Saffron De Twah, a modern Moroccan bistro on Detroit’s east side. It wasn't long before Saffron De Twah was winning wave reviews from diners and critics alike, for its unique dishes and community-first focus.
Accolades & Recognition for Chef Omar Amani——
***James Beard Award: Two-time finalist for Best Chef – Great Lakes (2022, 2023)
***Chopped: All-American Showdown: Emerged as champion in 2023, representing the North
***Saffron De Twah was named Eater Detroit’s Restaurant of the Year in 2019; recognized among Detroit Free Press’s top restaurants and included in Hour Detroit’s top 10 new restaurants.
Profile of Chef Omar Amani
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. West Michigan Weekend is
a weekly programmed designed to win form and enlightened on
a wide range of public policy issues, as well as
news and current events. Now here's your host, Phil Tower.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
One of the many segments we've had the pleasure to
record here in Trevor City during Trevor City Wine and Food,
which happened in late August, and it will happen again
next summer because there's just so many great things, so
much great buzz about it. And one of the main
reasons so many people got excited about Trevor City Win
(00:38):
and Food was the talent level. I mean, they pulled
out all the stops like they needed to prove that
Trevor City was a foody destination, and they brought in
some real ringers. I'm really pleased and very honored to
have sitting across the table from me, Chef omar Amani,
James Beard, Nominee, Chopped Alum and if you are in
(00:59):
the Detroit area and you have not yet eaten at
it's Saffron Destois, right. I love the name. The French
tip of that to the pronunciation of the big D
and I have so many questions for you. Omar. First
of all, welcome to the program. Before we start recording,
(01:20):
we turn on the microphones. Omar lays on me that
he lived in Grand Rapids. I figured you were this cosmopolitan,
worldly guy. I know you were in Maryland for.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
A while, right, Yeah, I was born there.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
You were born there, and then you end up your parents,
you moved to you go to East kent Wood High School.
You moved to kent Wood, So you got what did
you call it? Grand Riggotty? Is that?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
I love it? I love it. So when were you
in West Michigan?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Yeah, I moved to Grand Rapids when I was eleven
and with my parents and lived there throughout high school
and first couple of years of college at GRCC, and
shortly after that I left and you.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Went to Detroit. And first of all, I'm always curious
with people who are as talent as you are when
it comes to food. When did the food bug hit you?
When did you know that you loved to make things?
You were playing around in the kitchen. When did this
connect in your brain?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I knew when I was a little kid, I knew
right away that I wanted to be a chef. There's
this connection with food and memories that is absolutely amazing,
and so for me, it was actually a cupcake was
the reason I knew I wanted to be a chef.
And you know, my little sister, or my older sister,
(02:39):
had moved in with us from overseas, and she's learning
English and she's learning the language, and her dad's remarried
and has a new kid. And one day we were
making cupcakes and I remember I was decorating the cupcake
and in hindsight, is probably the most hideous cupcake you've
seen in entire life. My kid, grubby hands are grabbing
(03:00):
candy and shoving them in and smashing it. And I
gave her the cupcake and I told her that I
love her, and it's the first visible memory in my
mind of her smiling at me. And now to this day,
I can't see a cupcake without thinking of my sister Yea.
And I think there's there's missed dishes or meals that
will remind you of your grandmother, of your mom, of
(03:20):
your dad, of your and those memories and that connection
to food is what I've always been drawn to.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
And you end up in Detroit, you worked for Michael
Simon's Roast, which I unfortunately never had the pleasure of
even being inside. It has quite a reputation. How did
you end up there? And that that really kind of
helped launch you talk about that period for you.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Yeah, so it was actually after culinary school. I had
done some traveling and you know, worked in some fine dining,
but never in the States, and so that was my
first let me work in fine dining in the States.
And the reason it catapulted me or changed my trajectory
(04:03):
is it really taught me that fine dining isn't what
I want to do. And a lot of people that
come to my restaurant like, man, your food is fine dining.
I'm like, it really isn't. It's for me, food is
about accessibility and about community and about bringing people together.
And as much as I love the fine dining world,
that doesn't exist in it's much harder to create that
(04:27):
connection in that atmosphere, in that setting.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah, that's really true, and the whole paradigm has shifted.
Really when you think about the dining experience, it's a
very social experience, it's a community building experience. It's a
lot of things, and for a lot of people, it's
something they really really enjoy when you open Saffron de Twin.
(04:53):
That was helped me. Remember twenty eighteen, nineteen nineteen, so
six years, what was the restaurant for a while, We'll
get we'll get to that. What What were your hopes?
What were your goals.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
When I opened the restaurant. Really the idea was I
originally wanted to open a Palestinian restaurant, right and my
parents said, no, you can't do that because it's not
going to be about the food. It's going to be
about all these other things. And so one night I
woke up in the middle of the night, I said,
wait a minute. I spent time cooking in Morocco. I
love Moroccan food, and Morocco was a French colony until
(05:30):
nineteen fifty six. I was French trained and Michigan was
bought from the French in the Louisiana purchased in eighteen
oh five. So I googled it real quick and there
were zero Moroccan restaurants. Said wait a minute, this is
what we're going to do. I'm going to do a
Moroccan restaurant. And for me to go back to the
previous question, There's a huge difference between hospitality and service,
(05:53):
and I think that's what point I focus on, is
that hospitality how the meal makes you feel right. And
you can't have good hospitality without good service. I can
only forget your diet coke so many times before you're like,
come on, where's my coke? Man? But at the same time,
I think, uh, you know, what makes Saffron special is
(06:14):
the experience when you come in, the hospitality, when you
come into the restaurant, and the team, Like, honestly, I
know that I get the accolades in the wards, but
the team they do it all.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, but you inspire that. I think every chef, every
restaurateur that that's a huge part. I mean, you want
to build that team that they just it's it's almost
like they want to celebrate a victory every night, right.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Yeah, And I think that a lot of people they forget.
As a mentor, a chef mentor, your job is to
create the next generation of Like you talk about Michael
Simon's Ross and and how pivotal, pivotal of a restaurant
that was for the city of Detroit. You look at
how many chefs came out of that place and open
other places from Selden's and or to you know, the
(07:02):
list is really really long of people that came out
of that kitchen and opened their own places. And no
one's going to remember me, but I will live on
through the chefs that I train, and through the chefs
that they train, and through their restaurants. And that's an
amazing thing.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I want to correct you. I think a few people
will remember you. And it's a perfect segue to what
I wanted to talk about. I want to get away
from food for a moment, because you're really very passionate
about giving back to the community. I love that about you.
What was that from your parents? Was that from something
that happened earlier in your life where you said, yeah,
this is this needs to be done. Why is that
(07:45):
important to you to omar?
Speaker 3 (07:46):
I think it's a part of my culture, part of
my heritage, or part of my religion, part of it's
a part of my being. People who are intrinsically built
towards hospitality, they'll give you the shirt off of their back.
I mean, that's what it means to be hospitable. As
a matter of fact, you know, we gave one hundred
and ten thousand meals in twenty twenty to people in need,
(08:07):
and we were rocking fourteen hundred meals a day out
of our kitchen at one points, unbelievable. And I remember
when you start feeding people real food that are used
to preservatives and junk, it takes some time to adjust
to that, right. And I remember our Google rating went
from really really high and it was down into the
three point somethings. And I was so mad that day.
I was so mad. I was like, we're not doing
(08:28):
this anymore. People aren't grateful, they don't appreciate all this
hard work that we're doing. I could be sitting at
home collecting a paycheck, doing nothing, and I could you not.
God puts people in your path at the right time,
in the right ways. And that day, a guy comes
up to me and goes, hey, can I like wash
some dishes or something for a couple bucks? And I
looked at him like, I'm sorry, it's COVID. I can't
(08:49):
just let anyone into the building. But have you eaten today?
He's like, no, I haven't eaten. And so Jamal brings
two meals out of the kitchen. We sit down on
the curb. Misgrowman's eating like he hadn't eaten in two days,
and all of a sudden he starts to cry, and
I'm like, Okay, what's wrong, man, what's going on? And
he goes, I'm not going to lie to you. I
(09:10):
just got out of prison. I've been up and down
looking for work, and you're the first person that's treated
me like a human being.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Oh gosh.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
And that was the moment that I realized, who cares
what Google says about me or about my restaurant, Like
we're doing the right thing and all that comes from
my mom. My mom is the kindest, most gentlest giver
on the face of the planet, and I just want
to live up to that.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, I can tell you had incredible parents, There's no
question about that. We're speaking with chef omar Anani, James Muir,
nominee Chopped Alum. There's so many questions I have, and
of course the founder of Saffron Detoi. I'm going to
say that again, Saffron Destoi. I want to talk about
(10:00):
rock and food because a lot of people in West Michigan.
You spent time in Grand Rapids, that's a foreign thing,
pun intended, that's a foreign thing to them, and I
could do an entire twenty to thirty minute conversation with you, Omar.
I've never had a chef on the show, and my
frustration of why we don't have more variety in West Michigan.
(10:24):
We've got a lot of great places to eat, incredible restaurants,
but there's not a Greek restaurant in Grand Rapids. I
don't know if there's any pure We don't have a
place like Saffron Destoi. There are so many things we
could have, and I understand that takes a lot of things,
but Moroccan food. Describe that for our listeners, and describe
(10:47):
your menu and how that came together at Saffron Detoa.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Yeah, so I think you know the food at Saffron.
I learned in culinary school. I remember I made this
guavach and guava wasn't that big back then, and or
no I was a guava pavlova or something. I don't
remember what it was. But we ended up at the
end of the second day of service throwing it all
(11:11):
out and I was so mad. I'm like, no one
tried my dessert, no one even cared. And the pastry
chef Chef's stroker pulls me aside, and he's like, you know,
you have to give it to people in a format
that they understand. If we take this guava and put
it on a cheesecake, everyone knows what a cheesecake is.
But then when they eat it, they're gonna be like,
what's this stuff on top? Oh, that's guava. This stuff
(11:32):
is delicious. And so making the food approachable. You know,
we were known for this fried chicken and fried fish
sandwich that just blew up the restaurant, almost bankrupted it
at one point. And I think taking the flavors and
making them approachable to people is important while also keeping
(11:53):
the integrity of the culture and its food. And that's
a really really thin, hard lie. So you know, we're
a modern Moroccan besto bistro or not a super authentic
Moroccan place, and we've kind of, you know, found our
lane and found our way. And I think that also
with the influx of you know, refugees and immigrants into
(12:15):
this country and they're having kids. So now these kids
are like, yeah, I'm American, but my parents are from Korea,
and so now they're mishmatching cuisines, right, And then they
marry another woman who's from Japan and now they have
all these and they have kids, and now these kids
are like, well, am I American, am I Korean, am
(12:35):
I Japanese. And they're taking all these cuisines and putting
in there. And you're seeing all this new food. And
I hate the term fusion, but you're seeing these dishes
that like that didn't exist before, because they're not really fusion.
It's it's their own culture recreated.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah, that's a great point. Chef Omar and Nani with
us here on West Michigan Weekend from iHeartRadio. You hinted
before we started this recording that there's a new restaurant
on the way. Let's talk about that.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah, So my original dream to open a Palestinian restaurant
I'm making come to fruition and so we've been working
on that. It's going to be in just a couple
miles away in East English Village. This is this amazing
neighborhood that has like eight or nine restaurants going into
it and it's a walkable neighborhood. It's absolutely beautiful. And
(13:26):
the cool thing for us is the industry of food
is really broken in the way that like, how do
we create an equitable, sustainable lifestyle for people where you know,
servers are working at two or three different restaurants. That's
not okay, Like people need to be able to make
a living. And so for us, we figured Detroit has
a unique thing that I can't do in New York
(13:48):
or LA or DC. Real estate is cheaper. So we're
actually putting apartments on the second floor to do subsidized
housing for our staff. So the love that we can
make up for some of the money that they don't
get working in a restaurant.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah, that's brilliant. Yeah, that's absolutely brilliant. What's your target
to open right now?
Speaker 3 (14:06):
We are looking at the beginning of twenty seven, end
of twenty.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Six, Okay, so it's going to take a while.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Yeah, construction is construction.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yeah, so when you plan a menu for a new restaurant,
walk us through that process.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
I think to plan a menu for a restaurant begins
with the community. And this is where the big disconnect is.
And I think a lot of people are like, I
make the best ribs on the face of the planet.
I'm going to open this rib joint. It's going to
be amazing. And then they open this rib joint in
the middle of a Jewish neighborhood and they don't even
eat pork. What's going to happen to your restaurant. It's
(14:44):
going to go under. So I think it starts with
learning what your community wants, what your community needs, and
what they don't have, and then giving them that right.
And so what is it that doesn't exist in this neighborhood?
What is it that people want to have? And then
you kind of build it backwards. And now that you
know what the community is missing and what the community wants,
(15:06):
you then look at and I know this is more
of a business oriented thing, but you go, what kind
of equipment am I going to have in this kitchen?
What can I get away with? Because there's certain buildings,
like with a second story, I can't do wood fired
girls in my restaurant, which I would love to do,
but with apartments above it, you can't do that, right
And so you then look at your settings and your
surroundings and you kind of work backwards and then you
(15:30):
build the dishes with love. It's like, what is it
that I really want to eat? What is it that
I want to represent this culture, these people or this food.
The other sides, because the cool thing about this space
is it will actually be two restaurants, right, And we've
talked about what are we going to do on the
other side, how are we going to move Saffron do
another Saffron? Are we going to and so like, we've
(15:53):
kicked around so many different concepts, and the one that
keeps reverberating back to me is we have a lot
of refugees that were for our restaurant, and I'd love
to do a refugee kitchen where it's the employees of
the restaurant doing foods from their homeland and the men
you will always change and always rotate, and that way
(16:13):
we can teach them how to run and own and
operate a restaurant and they can go off and do
that on their own in the future.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, I can tell you love that. You love that.
Have you ever thought about teaching at some point down
the road?
Speaker 3 (16:27):
You know, we're all teachers. Chef literally means the head
of something, the chief of something, right, and so I
think being a teacher is amazing. But here's the cool
thing is you also, as a teacher, learn from your
experiences and your people. Have we get our bread We
(16:49):
used to make all of our bread and house. And
we now get them from RSA, which is Rising Stars Academy.
It's a school and it's a school for autistic and
disabled adults. I love this, and so we basically we
taught them our recipes and these kids make our bread
and then they bring it to the restaurant and they
delivered to bread to restaurants all over the city now
(17:09):
and it's a really really cool program. But here's the thing.
These kids come into my restaurant to learn, right, And
I spend time with them and I teach them for
just a couple hours, but they teach me more than
I teach them, honestly, Like we don't even take a
moment to enjoy the little things in life. I'll tell
(17:30):
you what. It's so funny. This kid he cuts a
cucumber's like chef. Look. I go, oh man, that's really
good job, and he goes like he was just won
the Super Bowl. I'm like, can we take that kind
of joy out of life over the littlest things. And
so I think being a teacher is great, but I'm
(17:51):
I'm learning from people every day, and I think I'll
always be somebody who wants to learn more than I
want to.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Teach Wildcar round Omar. That's the worst thing about chefs
on TV. The worst thing. I mean, you can elaborate
if you want. I mean, it seems like they're built
to be these horrific characters who have a soft heart
and and I think it's all shtick, but talk about that.
(18:23):
I mean, you were unchopped. Give us the skinny on
these TV shifs and Gordon Ramsey. I mean there are
hundreds of them.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
I mean you're in the entertainment industry. I think that
you know, you can't really get to know who somebody
is through a thirty minute episode, and so nope. So
there are these personalities that people put on and these
personas that people put on for for TV. But also
there's editors that that edit the footage right, And so
(18:53):
you're at the mercy of what does the editing of
this program look like?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Right?
Speaker 3 (18:57):
You could take what I say today and cut it up,
but make me look really bad or really good if
you want, right, And so I think you kind of
take that with a grain of salt. And you spend
time with these personalities and these chefs, and you get
to learn who they are, and you a lot of
times you'll find it there. It's it's sometimes you be like, oh, yeah,
that's exactly who I thought they were, and sometimes it's like,
(19:18):
oh they're not that big of a jerk.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Yeah yeah. Were you scared crazy going into chop No.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
I went into Chopped wanting to have a lot of
fun and I love it. I don't care if I win,
but I also really really hate to lose. So for me,
I'm super competitive. As a matter of fact, in the
dessert round, it's a spoiler alert if you haven't seen
the episode, but in the dessert round, I remember Jill
(19:50):
and I we both worked for Michael Simon at one point,
and I remember I said to her, let's go, let's
get it girl, And people are like, you're cheering on
your competition, and I was like, I want to beat
her at her best. I don't want to beat her
at her worst, and she's my friend. I want her
to do well. I love that.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
I absolutely love that. Okay, we continue in the Lightning round.
That the one comfort food you'll make for yourself over
and over again. Oh it could be a first place
on a runner up.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Omar Man, that's tough comfort food.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
You've had a long day your home, you're in the kitchen,
you just or you bring it from the restaurant.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Indonesian ramen noodles in Domese. It's a very specific it's
a very specific packet of ramen noodles, and they're eaten dry.
You boil the noodles, you take them out, and they
have a seasoning packet. But here's the cool thing about
Indonesian noodles is they use a soy sauce called keycap menace.
It's a really sweet soy sauce and it comes with
(20:48):
a little bit of chili sauce and then just the
spices that go into these new they're like I house
boxes of these things. Man, It's probably like my quick
go to meal. I eat them on the regular.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
I'm getting hungry just hearing you talk about it.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
You sing by the restaurant, I'm gonna have a pack waiting.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
For Okay, what in the backup? If you're not doing
Indonesian ramen noodles? Back up, maybe it's even a dessert
or a pastry. You're just like, I can't walk away
from this.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Oh I am a sucker for and people judge me
for this, like you're a fine dining chef, and you
go home and you eat hot dogs. I love a
good all beef hot dog. This is fantastic, Like there's
no tomorrow. That is my guilty pleasure. I eat them
as Koney's. I eat them as I love hot dogs.
Hot Dogs are probably the go to runner up of
(21:44):
like we eat them as staff meal at the restaurant.
And what's funny is sometimes the employers like, chef, can
you get us more hot dogs? I'm like, yep, I
got it, let's go.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Is there a brand you can reveal on the radio
or is it are the cocos? Or I what do you?
Speaker 3 (21:57):
What do you? We use Sharifa Halal, which comes out
of sods at Eastern Market, okay, right here in Detroit.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah, and that is you can't get that in Grand Rapids,
but I'm sure you can find you can.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Actually there's the market on forty fourth Street, and then
there's the market on East Paris.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
But the have it all right there you go, there
you go, Omars, Omars got your's got he's got your
your hookup. I want to get personal because I love
the fact you talked about your mom and just how
much she said a word We hear a lot in
interviews and the web and TV poured into you. And really,
(22:40):
I get a sense your mom told you you could
be anything you wanted to be when you first said Okay,
this is it chef track. Talk about her reaction and
just prompting you along the way. How important that was.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
I think the cool thing about my mom is she
never says no. She will always be my biggest supporter
no matter what I wanted to do. I could tell
her today, Mom, I'm done cooking. I'm gonna go be
an astronaut, and she would be so proud and so supportive.
(23:13):
She knows absolutely nothing about physics or space or any
of that, but she would be my biggest supporter always
and she always has been. And all my siblings are
the same way. And I like, I think when you
have the support of family like that and and their love,
and you can achieve anything. Like I think a lot
(23:34):
of people are their own worst critic, Like we're so
self deprecating all the time. Oh God, I'm so stupid.
Why did I do that? Like that's a common thing
you hear, Yeah, And you have to like when you
have people around you like your mom, Like, what did
you just say, don't say that about yourself. That's not
who you are. And they correct you, and they and
they make you think highly of yourself. You can do
(23:56):
anything in this world when you have people like that
around you.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yeah, it's a little bit of encouragement. It goes a
long way. I think back to the story that you told,
which just blew me away, about the guy you fed
who was just out of prison, who's in tears because
no one would talk to him or given the time
of the day. What a simple thing. By the way,
did he end up working for you?
Speaker 3 (24:18):
No, no he didn't. I saw him once after that,
and he was staying at a halfway house and he
was he was getting a license to be a trucker.
That was going to be his new path.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
But omar, hang on for a second. You ever stop
and think, is ponder what that act of kindness did
for that guy? It probably propelled him for the next week.
I don't downplay that. No, No, I'm actually incredible. Yeah, yeah,
I just love that, I really do. I could go
(24:52):
on and on, but we are about ready to land
this plane. Is there anything I didn't ask you about
you wanted to share? Anybody in Grand rapids. You want
to do a shout.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Out to shout out my mom and dad.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah, chef Omar and Nannie with us. The website, by
the way for his restaurant, saffrondettois dot com saffron d
E t w a h dot com. If you say
I went to school with Omar at East Kentwood, you
may get a reservation like sometime in December or something
(25:27):
like that. I've had so much fun speaking with you,
and you've had a busy uh time here in Traverse City.
So thank you so far for just taking a little
time to hang with me.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Really, no, this is my pleasure man. It's it's always
fun to spend time with other people and connect. And
so it's like just like that guy on the street,
just spending some time together. It's like, oh from the
same town. Cool, Who do you know? Who do I know?
And it's such a small world, man, You just never
know who knows who and who knows what. And I
guarantee if we spent enough time here, we'd find some connections.
(26:00):
Are you know, like places that we love and well.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
You already had me at hot Dog and I'm going
to try to find I don't know, can we get
Indonesian noodles at Meyer that the end.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
I don't think they into me. How do you say
that into me?
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yeah? Noodles?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Yeah, so they the Indome is the brand and they
make a bunch of different flavors. But I'm gonna get
I'm gonna get you.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I'm just you had me at just the description. I'm
just this is terrible. We're on the radio and Omar
has already made me hungry. Chef Omar a Nani restaurantur,
James Beard nominee, Chopped Alum and just all around amazing guy. Chef.
Thank you so much, Thank you. He's been our guest
(26:45):
on this full edition of West Michigan Weekend from my
Heart Radio. That's our program, I'm hungry.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Hot dugs for everyone, Let's go.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
You've been listening to iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend West Michigan
weeks and it's a production of Wood Radio and iHeartRadio.
Mm hmm
This is iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. West Michigan Weekend is
a weekly programmed designed to win form and enlightened on
a wide range of public policy issues, as well as
news and current events. Now here's your host, Phil Tower.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
One of the many segments we've had the pleasure to
record here in Trevor City during Trevor City Wine and Food,
which happened in late August, and it will happen again
next summer because there's just so many great things, so
much great buzz about it. And one of the main
reasons so many people got excited about Trevor City Win
(00:38):
and Food was the talent level. I mean, they pulled
out all the stops like they needed to prove that
Trevor City was a foody destination, and they brought in
some real ringers. I'm really pleased and very honored to
have sitting across the table from me, Chef omar Amani,
James Beard, Nominee, Chopped Alum and if you are in
(00:59):
the Detroit area and you have not yet eaten at
it's Saffron Destois, right. I love the name. The French
tip of that to the pronunciation of the big D
and I have so many questions for you. Omar. First
of all, welcome to the program. Before we start recording,
(01:20):
we turn on the microphones. Omar lays on me that
he lived in Grand Rapids. I figured you were this cosmopolitan,
worldly guy. I know you were in Maryland for.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
A while, right, Yeah, I was born there.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
You were born there, and then you end up your parents,
you moved to you go to East kent Wood High School.
You moved to kent Wood, So you got what did
you call it? Grand Riggotty? Is that?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
I love it? I love it. So when were you
in West Michigan?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Yeah, I moved to Grand Rapids when I was eleven
and with my parents and lived there throughout high school
and first couple of years of college at GRCC, and
shortly after that I left and you.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Went to Detroit. And first of all, I'm always curious
with people who are as talent as you are when
it comes to food. When did the food bug hit you?
When did you know that you loved to make things?
You were playing around in the kitchen. When did this
connect in your brain?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I knew when I was a little kid, I knew
right away that I wanted to be a chef. There's
this connection with food and memories that is absolutely amazing,
and so for me, it was actually a cupcake was
the reason I knew I wanted to be a chef.
And you know, my little sister, or my older sister,
(02:39):
had moved in with us from overseas, and she's learning
English and she's learning the language, and her dad's remarried
and has a new kid. And one day we were
making cupcakes and I remember I was decorating the cupcake
and in hindsight, is probably the most hideous cupcake you've
seen in entire life. My kid, grubby hands are grabbing
(03:00):
candy and shoving them in and smashing it. And I
gave her the cupcake and I told her that I
love her, and it's the first visible memory in my
mind of her smiling at me. And now to this day,
I can't see a cupcake without thinking of my sister Yea.
And I think there's there's missed dishes or meals that
will remind you of your grandmother, of your mom, of
(03:20):
your dad, of your and those memories and that connection
to food is what I've always been drawn to.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
And you end up in Detroit, you worked for Michael
Simon's Roast, which I unfortunately never had the pleasure of
even being inside. It has quite a reputation. How did
you end up there? And that that really kind of
helped launch you talk about that period for you.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Yeah, so it was actually after culinary school. I had
done some traveling and you know, worked in some fine dining,
but never in the States, and so that was my
first let me work in fine dining in the States.
And the reason it catapulted me or changed my trajectory
(04:03):
is it really taught me that fine dining isn't what
I want to do. And a lot of people that
come to my restaurant like, man, your food is fine dining.
I'm like, it really isn't. It's for me, food is
about accessibility and about community and about bringing people together.
And as much as I love the fine dining world,
that doesn't exist in it's much harder to create that
(04:27):
connection in that atmosphere, in that setting.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah, that's really true, and the whole paradigm has shifted.
Really when you think about the dining experience, it's a
very social experience, it's a community building experience. It's a
lot of things, and for a lot of people, it's
something they really really enjoy when you open Saffron de Twin.
(04:53):
That was helped me. Remember twenty eighteen, nineteen nineteen, so
six years, what was the restaurant for a while, We'll
get we'll get to that. What What were your hopes?
What were your goals.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
When I opened the restaurant. Really the idea was I
originally wanted to open a Palestinian restaurant, right and my
parents said, no, you can't do that because it's not
going to be about the food. It's going to be
about all these other things. And so one night I
woke up in the middle of the night, I said,
wait a minute. I spent time cooking in Morocco. I
love Moroccan food, and Morocco was a French colony until
(05:30):
nineteen fifty six. I was French trained and Michigan was
bought from the French in the Louisiana purchased in eighteen
oh five. So I googled it real quick and there
were zero Moroccan restaurants. Said wait a minute, this is
what we're going to do. I'm going to do a
Moroccan restaurant. And for me to go back to the
previous question, There's a huge difference between hospitality and service,
(05:53):
and I think that's what point I focus on, is
that hospitality how the meal makes you feel right. And
you can't have good hospitality without good service. I can
only forget your diet coke so many times before you're like,
come on, where's my coke? Man? But at the same time,
I think, uh, you know, what makes Saffron special is
(06:14):
the experience when you come in, the hospitality, when you
come into the restaurant, and the team, Like, honestly, I
know that I get the accolades in the wards, but
the team they do it all.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, but you inspire that. I think every chef, every
restaurateur that that's a huge part. I mean, you want
to build that team that they just it's it's almost
like they want to celebrate a victory every night, right.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Yeah, And I think that a lot of people they forget.
As a mentor, a chef mentor, your job is to
create the next generation of Like you talk about Michael
Simon's Ross and and how pivotal, pivotal of a restaurant
that was for the city of Detroit. You look at
how many chefs came out of that place and open
other places from Selden's and or to you know, the
(07:02):
list is really really long of people that came out
of that kitchen and opened their own places. And no
one's going to remember me, but I will live on
through the chefs that I train, and through the chefs
that they train, and through their restaurants. And that's an
amazing thing.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I want to correct you. I think a few people
will remember you. And it's a perfect segue to what
I wanted to talk about. I want to get away
from food for a moment, because you're really very passionate
about giving back to the community. I love that about you.
What was that from your parents? Was that from something
that happened earlier in your life where you said, yeah,
this is this needs to be done. Why is that
(07:45):
important to you to omar?
Speaker 3 (07:46):
I think it's a part of my culture, part of
my heritage, or part of my religion, part of it's
a part of my being. People who are intrinsically built
towards hospitality, they'll give you the shirt off of their back.
I mean, that's what it means to be hospitable. As
a matter of fact, you know, we gave one hundred
and ten thousand meals in twenty twenty to people in need,
(08:07):
and we were rocking fourteen hundred meals a day out
of our kitchen at one points, unbelievable. And I remember
when you start feeding people real food that are used
to preservatives and junk, it takes some time to adjust
to that, right. And I remember our Google rating went
from really really high and it was down into the
three point somethings. And I was so mad that day.
I was so mad. I was like, we're not doing
(08:28):
this anymore. People aren't grateful, they don't appreciate all this
hard work that we're doing. I could be sitting at
home collecting a paycheck, doing nothing, and I could you not.
God puts people in your path at the right time,
in the right ways. And that day, a guy comes
up to me and goes, hey, can I like wash
some dishes or something for a couple bucks? And I
looked at him like, I'm sorry, it's COVID. I can't
(08:49):
just let anyone into the building. But have you eaten today?
He's like, no, I haven't eaten. And so Jamal brings
two meals out of the kitchen. We sit down on
the curb. Misgrowman's eating like he hadn't eaten in two days,
and all of a sudden he starts to cry, and
I'm like, Okay, what's wrong, man, what's going on? And
he goes, I'm not going to lie to you. I
(09:10):
just got out of prison. I've been up and down
looking for work, and you're the first person that's treated
me like a human being.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Oh gosh.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
And that was the moment that I realized, who cares
what Google says about me or about my restaurant, Like
we're doing the right thing and all that comes from
my mom. My mom is the kindest, most gentlest giver
on the face of the planet, and I just want
to live up to that.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, I can tell you had incredible parents, There's no
question about that. We're speaking with chef omar Anani, James Muir,
nominee Chopped Alum. There's so many questions I have, and
of course the founder of Saffron Detoi. I'm going to
say that again, Saffron Destoi. I want to talk about
(10:00):
rock and food because a lot of people in West Michigan.
You spent time in Grand Rapids, that's a foreign thing,
pun intended, that's a foreign thing to them, and I
could do an entire twenty to thirty minute conversation with you, Omar.
I've never had a chef on the show, and my
frustration of why we don't have more variety in West Michigan.
(10:24):
We've got a lot of great places to eat, incredible restaurants,
but there's not a Greek restaurant in Grand Rapids. I
don't know if there's any pure We don't have a
place like Saffron Destoi. There are so many things we
could have, and I understand that takes a lot of things,
but Moroccan food. Describe that for our listeners, and describe
(10:47):
your menu and how that came together at Saffron Detoa.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Yeah, so I think you know the food at Saffron.
I learned in culinary school. I remember I made this
guavach and guava wasn't that big back then, and or
no I was a guava pavlova or something. I don't
remember what it was. But we ended up at the
end of the second day of service throwing it all
(11:11):
out and I was so mad. I'm like, no one
tried my dessert, no one even cared. And the pastry
chef Chef's stroker pulls me aside, and he's like, you know,
you have to give it to people in a format
that they understand. If we take this guava and put
it on a cheesecake, everyone knows what a cheesecake is.
But then when they eat it, they're gonna be like,
what's this stuff on top? Oh, that's guava. This stuff
(11:32):
is delicious. And so making the food approachable. You know,
we were known for this fried chicken and fried fish
sandwich that just blew up the restaurant, almost bankrupted it
at one point. And I think taking the flavors and
making them approachable to people is important while also keeping
(11:53):
the integrity of the culture and its food. And that's
a really really thin, hard lie. So you know, we're
a modern Moroccan besto bistro or not a super authentic
Moroccan place, and we've kind of, you know, found our
lane and found our way. And I think that also
with the influx of you know, refugees and immigrants into
(12:15):
this country and they're having kids. So now these kids
are like, yeah, I'm American, but my parents are from Korea,
and so now they're mishmatching cuisines, right, And then they
marry another woman who's from Japan and now they have
all these and they have kids, and now these kids
are like, well, am I American, am I Korean, am
(12:35):
I Japanese. And they're taking all these cuisines and putting
in there. And you're seeing all this new food. And
I hate the term fusion, but you're seeing these dishes
that like that didn't exist before, because they're not really fusion.
It's it's their own culture recreated.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah, that's a great point. Chef Omar and Nani with
us here on West Michigan Weekend from iHeartRadio. You hinted
before we started this recording that there's a new restaurant
on the way. Let's talk about that.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah, So my original dream to open a Palestinian restaurant
I'm making come to fruition and so we've been working
on that. It's going to be in just a couple
miles away in East English Village. This is this amazing
neighborhood that has like eight or nine restaurants going into
it and it's a walkable neighborhood. It's absolutely beautiful. And
(13:26):
the cool thing for us is the industry of food
is really broken in the way that like, how do
we create an equitable, sustainable lifestyle for people where you know,
servers are working at two or three different restaurants. That's
not okay, Like people need to be able to make
a living. And so for us, we figured Detroit has
a unique thing that I can't do in New York
(13:48):
or LA or DC. Real estate is cheaper. So we're
actually putting apartments on the second floor to do subsidized
housing for our staff. So the love that we can
make up for some of the money that they don't
get working in a restaurant.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah, that's brilliant. Yeah, that's absolutely brilliant. What's your target
to open right now?
Speaker 3 (14:06):
We are looking at the beginning of twenty seven, end
of twenty.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Six, Okay, so it's going to take a while.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Yeah, construction is construction.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yeah, so when you plan a menu for a new restaurant,
walk us through that process.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
I think to plan a menu for a restaurant begins
with the community. And this is where the big disconnect is.
And I think a lot of people are like, I
make the best ribs on the face of the planet.
I'm going to open this rib joint. It's going to
be amazing. And then they open this rib joint in
the middle of a Jewish neighborhood and they don't even
eat pork. What's going to happen to your restaurant. It's
(14:44):
going to go under. So I think it starts with
learning what your community wants, what your community needs, and
what they don't have, and then giving them that right.
And so what is it that doesn't exist in this neighborhood?
What is it that people want to have? And then
you kind of build it backwards. And now that you
know what the community is missing and what the community wants,
(15:06):
you then look at and I know this is more
of a business oriented thing, but you go, what kind
of equipment am I going to have in this kitchen?
What can I get away with? Because there's certain buildings,
like with a second story, I can't do wood fired
girls in my restaurant, which I would love to do,
but with apartments above it, you can't do that, right
And so you then look at your settings and your
surroundings and you kind of work backwards and then you
(15:30):
build the dishes with love. It's like, what is it
that I really want to eat? What is it that
I want to represent this culture, these people or this food.
The other sides, because the cool thing about this space
is it will actually be two restaurants, right, And we've
talked about what are we going to do on the
other side, how are we going to move Saffron do
another Saffron? Are we going to and so like, we've
(15:53):
kicked around so many different concepts, and the one that
keeps reverberating back to me is we have a lot
of refugees that were for our restaurant, and I'd love
to do a refugee kitchen where it's the employees of
the restaurant doing foods from their homeland and the men
you will always change and always rotate, and that way
(16:13):
we can teach them how to run and own and
operate a restaurant and they can go off and do
that on their own in the future.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, I can tell you love that. You love that.
Have you ever thought about teaching at some point down
the road?
Speaker 3 (16:27):
You know, we're all teachers. Chef literally means the head
of something, the chief of something, right, and so I
think being a teacher is amazing. But here's the cool
thing is you also, as a teacher, learn from your
experiences and your people. Have we get our bread We
(16:49):
used to make all of our bread and house. And
we now get them from RSA, which is Rising Stars Academy.
It's a school and it's a school for autistic and
disabled adults. I love this, and so we basically we
taught them our recipes and these kids make our bread
and then they bring it to the restaurant and they
delivered to bread to restaurants all over the city now
(17:09):
and it's a really really cool program. But here's the thing.
These kids come into my restaurant to learn, right, And
I spend time with them and I teach them for
just a couple hours, but they teach me more than
I teach them, honestly, Like we don't even take a
moment to enjoy the little things in life. I'll tell
(17:30):
you what. It's so funny. This kid he cuts a
cucumber's like chef. Look. I go, oh man, that's really
good job, and he goes like he was just won
the Super Bowl. I'm like, can we take that kind
of joy out of life over the littlest things. And
so I think being a teacher is great, but I'm
(17:51):
I'm learning from people every day, and I think I'll
always be somebody who wants to learn more than I
want to.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Teach Wildcar round Omar. That's the worst thing about chefs
on TV. The worst thing. I mean, you can elaborate
if you want. I mean, it seems like they're built
to be these horrific characters who have a soft heart
and and I think it's all shtick, but talk about that.
(18:23):
I mean, you were unchopped. Give us the skinny on
these TV shifs and Gordon Ramsey. I mean there are
hundreds of them.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
I mean you're in the entertainment industry. I think that
you know, you can't really get to know who somebody
is through a thirty minute episode, and so nope. So
there are these personalities that people put on and these
personas that people put on for for TV. But also
there's editors that that edit the footage right, And so
(18:53):
you're at the mercy of what does the editing of
this program look like?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Right?
Speaker 3 (18:57):
You could take what I say today and cut it up,
but make me look really bad or really good if
you want, right, And so I think you kind of
take that with a grain of salt. And you spend
time with these personalities and these chefs, and you get
to learn who they are, and you a lot of
times you'll find it there. It's it's sometimes you be like, oh, yeah,
that's exactly who I thought they were, and sometimes it's like,
(19:18):
oh they're not that big of a jerk.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Yeah yeah. Were you scared crazy going into chop No.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
I went into Chopped wanting to have a lot of
fun and I love it. I don't care if I win,
but I also really really hate to lose. So for me,
I'm super competitive. As a matter of fact, in the
dessert round, it's a spoiler alert if you haven't seen
the episode, but in the dessert round, I remember Jill
(19:50):
and I we both worked for Michael Simon at one point,
and I remember I said to her, let's go, let's
get it girl, And people are like, you're cheering on
your competition, and I was like, I want to beat
her at her best. I don't want to beat her
at her worst, and she's my friend. I want her
to do well. I love that.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
I absolutely love that. Okay, we continue in the Lightning round.
That the one comfort food you'll make for yourself over
and over again. Oh it could be a first place
on a runner up.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Omar Man, that's tough comfort food.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
You've had a long day your home, you're in the kitchen,
you just or you bring it from the restaurant.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Indonesian ramen noodles in Domese. It's a very specific it's
a very specific packet of ramen noodles, and they're eaten dry.
You boil the noodles, you take them out, and they
have a seasoning packet. But here's the cool thing about
Indonesian noodles is they use a soy sauce called keycap menace.
It's a really sweet soy sauce and it comes with
(20:48):
a little bit of chili sauce and then just the
spices that go into these new they're like I house
boxes of these things. Man, It's probably like my quick
go to meal. I eat them on the regular.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
I'm getting hungry just hearing you talk about it.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
You sing by the restaurant, I'm gonna have a pack waiting.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
For Okay, what in the backup? If you're not doing
Indonesian ramen noodles? Back up, maybe it's even a dessert
or a pastry. You're just like, I can't walk away
from this.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Oh I am a sucker for and people judge me
for this, like you're a fine dining chef, and you
go home and you eat hot dogs. I love a
good all beef hot dog. This is fantastic, Like there's
no tomorrow. That is my guilty pleasure. I eat them
as Koney's. I eat them as I love hot dogs.
Hot Dogs are probably the go to runner up of
(21:44):
like we eat them as staff meal at the restaurant.
And what's funny is sometimes the employers like, chef, can
you get us more hot dogs? I'm like, yep, I
got it, let's go.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Is there a brand you can reveal on the radio
or is it are the cocos? Or I what do you?
Speaker 3 (21:57):
What do you? We use Sharifa Halal, which comes out
of sods at Eastern Market, okay, right here in Detroit.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah, and that is you can't get that in Grand Rapids,
but I'm sure you can find you can.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Actually there's the market on forty fourth Street, and then
there's the market on East Paris.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
But the have it all right there you go, there
you go, Omars, Omars got your's got he's got your
your hookup. I want to get personal because I love
the fact you talked about your mom and just how
much she said a word We hear a lot in
interviews and the web and TV poured into you. And really,
(22:40):
I get a sense your mom told you you could
be anything you wanted to be when you first said Okay,
this is it chef track. Talk about her reaction and
just prompting you along the way. How important that was.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
I think the cool thing about my mom is she
never says no. She will always be my biggest supporter
no matter what I wanted to do. I could tell
her today, Mom, I'm done cooking. I'm gonna go be
an astronaut, and she would be so proud and so supportive.
(23:13):
She knows absolutely nothing about physics or space or any
of that, but she would be my biggest supporter always
and she always has been. And all my siblings are
the same way. And I like, I think when you
have the support of family like that and and their love,
and you can achieve anything. Like I think a lot
(23:34):
of people are their own worst critic, Like we're so
self deprecating all the time. Oh God, I'm so stupid.
Why did I do that? Like that's a common thing
you hear, Yeah, And you have to like when you
have people around you like your mom, Like, what did
you just say, don't say that about yourself. That's not
who you are. And they correct you, and they and
they make you think highly of yourself. You can do
(23:56):
anything in this world when you have people like that
around you.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yeah, it's a little bit of encouragement. It goes a
long way. I think back to the story that you told,
which just blew me away, about the guy you fed
who was just out of prison, who's in tears because
no one would talk to him or given the time
of the day. What a simple thing. By the way,
did he end up working for you?
Speaker 3 (24:18):
No, no he didn't. I saw him once after that,
and he was staying at a halfway house and he
was he was getting a license to be a trucker.
That was going to be his new path.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
But omar, hang on for a second. You ever stop
and think, is ponder what that act of kindness did
for that guy? It probably propelled him for the next week.
I don't downplay that. No, No, I'm actually incredible. Yeah, yeah,
I just love that, I really do. I could go
(24:52):
on and on, but we are about ready to land
this plane. Is there anything I didn't ask you about
you wanted to share? Anybody in Grand rapids. You want
to do a shout.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Out to shout out my mom and dad.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah, chef Omar and Nannie with us. The website, by
the way for his restaurant, saffrondettois dot com saffron d
E t w a h dot com. If you say
I went to school with Omar at East Kentwood, you
may get a reservation like sometime in December or something
(25:27):
like that. I've had so much fun speaking with you,
and you've had a busy uh time here in Traverse City.
So thank you so far for just taking a little
time to hang with me.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Really, no, this is my pleasure man. It's it's always
fun to spend time with other people and connect. And
so it's like just like that guy on the street,
just spending some time together. It's like, oh from the
same town. Cool, Who do you know? Who do I know?
And it's such a small world, man, You just never
know who knows who and who knows what. And I
guarantee if we spent enough time here, we'd find some connections.
(26:00):
Are you know, like places that we love and well.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
You already had me at hot Dog and I'm going
to try to find I don't know, can we get
Indonesian noodles at Meyer that the end.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
I don't think they into me. How do you say
that into me?
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yeah? Noodles?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Yeah, so they the Indome is the brand and they
make a bunch of different flavors. But I'm gonna get
I'm gonna get you.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I'm just you had me at just the description. I'm
just this is terrible. We're on the radio and Omar
has already made me hungry. Chef Omar a Nani restaurantur,
James Beard nominee, Chopped Alum and just all around amazing guy. Chef.
Thank you so much, Thank you. He's been our guest
(26:45):
on this full edition of West Michigan Weekend from my
Heart Radio. That's our program, I'm hungry.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Hot dugs for everyone, Let's go.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
You've been listening to iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend West Michigan
weeks and it's a production of Wood Radio and iHeartRadio.
Mm hmm
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