October 19, 2025 • 15 mins
In this episode, host Phil Tower welcomes New York Times best-selling author, radio host, frequent national commentator, and public speaker, John U. Bacon.
Tower spoke with John U. Bacon about his new book, “THE GALES OF NOVEMBER: The Untold Story of the Edmund Fitzgerald.”
In The Gales of November, John U. Bacon delivers the definitive account of the disaster. Drawing on more than 100 interviews with families, friends, and former crewmates.
In the book, Bacon also explores Great Lakes shipping’s critical economic role, the sailors’ uncommon lives, the sinking’s likely causes, and the heartbreak left behind—“the wives, the sons, and the daughters,” as Gordon Lightfoot sang. Bacon spent 3 ½ years researching the story, talking with Family members of those lost in the wreck, and hearing firsthand stories that have never been told before. We unpack that in our conversation with him in this segment.
Get John U. Bacon’s New Book: “THE GALES OF NOVEMBER: The Untold Story of the Edmund Fitzgerald.”
John U. Bacon Online
See John U. Bacon speaking at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Museum in Grand Rapids on November 4th at 6:30 pm.
On November 6th, John U. Bacon will be the featured speaker & author at The National Writers Series in Traverse City, Michigan, at The City Opera House at 7:00 pm.
Get tickets here.
Tower spoke with John U. Bacon about his new book, “THE GALES OF NOVEMBER: The Untold Story of the Edmund Fitzgerald.”
In The Gales of November, John U. Bacon delivers the definitive account of the disaster. Drawing on more than 100 interviews with families, friends, and former crewmates.
In the book, Bacon also explores Great Lakes shipping’s critical economic role, the sailors’ uncommon lives, the sinking’s likely causes, and the heartbreak left behind—“the wives, the sons, and the daughters,” as Gordon Lightfoot sang. Bacon spent 3 ½ years researching the story, talking with Family members of those lost in the wreck, and hearing firsthand stories that have never been told before. We unpack that in our conversation with him in this segment.
Get John U. Bacon’s New Book: “THE GALES OF NOVEMBER: The Untold Story of the Edmund Fitzgerald.”
John U. Bacon Online
See John U. Bacon speaking at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Museum in Grand Rapids on November 4th at 6:30 pm.
On November 6th, John U. Bacon will be the featured speaker & author at The National Writers Series in Traverse City, Michigan, at The City Opera House at 7:00 pm.
Get tickets here.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. West Michigan Weekend is
a weekly programmed designed to inform and enlighten on a
wide range of public policy issues, as well as news
and current events. Now here's your host, Phil Tower.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It's iHeartRadio West Michigan Weekend. And once again, thank you
so much for tuning in. I'm your host, Phil Tower.
It is a real honor and a pleasure to welcome
in this segment a guy who wears many hats. Best
known as a New York Times bestselling author, He's a
radio host, frequent national commentator on radio, and TV speaker.
(00:37):
If you're fortunate enough to have seen him in person,
John You Bacon, author of fourteen books, including seven national bestsellers.
His newest book, out in early October, is going to
do that again. His newest book, out in early October
already available is The Gales of November, The Untold Story
of Edmund Fitzgerald. Wow, you Bacon, welcome to iHeartRadio's West
(01:02):
Michigan Weekend Tale.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Thank you very much. Good to be on.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
This is a little unnerving, it's a little daunting talking
to another radio guy.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
So go easy, I'll go easy. On you.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I have so many questions, so many things that we
could talk about, but I want to talk about the book.
This is if you think about any stories, John U. Bacon,
there are all kinds of stories of interesting legends and proportions.
This is one, as a lifelong Michigan resident, that I
think everyone is familiar with. Whether they're thirteen or they're
(01:37):
eighty three, they probably heard about it. What fascinated you
or drew you after so many books to write about
the Edmond Fitzgerald great question.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Well, first of all, fail, by the way, no reason
to be daunted. You are a true radio professional. You
got the voice, you get the delivery. I'm a writer
who talked in the radio. Sometimes there's a difference. So
but you're very gracious.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
What drew me to it? I mean you got listeners
all across of course Western Michigan. I'm from ann Arburn,
spent my summers towards Lake, Traverse City, et cetera. I've
been in all these lakes. I bet most of your
listeners have were surrounded by it, so naturally there's an
automatic fascination. I think with this lifestyle. What struck me
is how little I bought this I really knew. I
(02:21):
knew the songs, certainly, I knew a bit of the
research on it. I didn't almost anything about Great League shipping,
who does it, how they do it, why they do it.
I didn't know that the Great Lakes are actually more
dangerous than the ocean according to commercial sailors. That came
as a real surprise. But what ultimately drew me, though,
was the twenty nine men. Is that we know that
(02:42):
they're twenty nine, we know the number, we don't know
who they are, and that, more than what happened, was
always part of the fascination. I think that's what really
drove me on this story. And I pitched it twenty
years ago to my agent who said no, So I
got a new agent. My agent a few years ago
said yes, so that one worked out.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
So this is not something that just happened in the
last couple of years. This is a two decades wish
out about a book that you wanted to write, and
finally the time is here. It doesn't hurt John that
this is the fiftieth anniversary. That caught me by surprise.
I was a I think it was a twelve year
old kid when the ship sank, and I was trying
(03:21):
to remember preparing for our conversation here.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
I was trying to.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Remember if I remembered it, and I remember newspapers were
a thing back then. I remember the headline, but I
really don't remember much about it. But it was something
that fascinated a lot of people, and of course it
was a terrible maritime tragedy.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
But you're going deep in the story.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
And what I love about the book is you talk
about just how dangerous the Great Lakes are. You just
alluded to that there's an estimate I saw of anywhere
between six to ten thousand ships sunk in the Great Lakes.
That's kind of a mind blowing number.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Yeah, the whole thing's mind blowing. You're right about that,
and that's what it got me. I was eleven when
it happens, so we're in the same category. I was
in sixth grade. I remembered pretty well, but again I
had no sense of where it stood, how it bears
compared to others the background. Of course, I was amazed
by this stat the one you just dropped between eighteen
(04:16):
seventy five and nineteen seventy five, when the Fitzgerald goes
down six to ten thousand commercial shipwrecks happened on the
Great Lakes, claiming at least thirty thousand lives. That is
one shipwreck a week every week for a century. That's
one casualty every day for a century. This is incredibly
(04:37):
dangerous and I really had no sense of that until
I got into it.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yeah, there are so many documents and there's been so
much research about the Fitzgerald.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
The boat.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
The wreckage of the boat has been found. Obviously, it's
going to stay there. It remains a very solemn and
important historical grave for those who were lost on the
ship November t nineteen seventy five. The boat is It's
of epic proportions. It was the largest ship when it
(05:09):
was launched in the late fifties.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
I think it was nineteen fifty eight, correct.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
But all those documents, all that research, the survivors talk
about that process. Every great author spends a lot of
time doing research or has a staff helping them with
the research. This could have been a little daunting, John,
talk about how you want about the project in terms
of what you focused on.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Well, it's completely daunting. Phil. I coughed that one up
right away. The football and hockey and leadership books have
written previously all took about a year, maybe a little
more by that much, and usually can't because they've got
to come out the next season and so on. This
one took me three and a half years, basically almost
four years. And that's my wife, You know, why does
(05:54):
this take me so long? As a NonStop hard work. Now,
like I coasted in the middle and she said, oh,
that you don't know anything. So yeah, I knew starbord
from port. I didn't know how long thews things were,
how big, how they're manufactured, what they're carrying, where the
port are, how this whole system works. So all that
(06:15):
was undenially daunting. But yeah, there's a great satisfaction though
in finding out things that people had not found before.
So in some ways being an outsider can be helpful
because the people who spend their lives in this tend
to burrow down certain rabbit holes of the technical side
or this side or that side. I want to take
(06:37):
an all inclusive approach basically, so I wanted to you know,
the history of the Great Lakes, history of shipping, how
these things are made, who makes them, who sales in
these things, why they do it, where they what the
lake on board? What's the lake on shore? I even
did what I call bar research, film, hard hitting and
investigative journalism to find out the various parts these guys
(06:57):
went to in the music you listened to. That bar
was what's fun as well, I think for the readers.
But the real key again was I got to fix crewman.
We've been on the ship before, obviously before it went
out that last time. Who knew the crew, who knew
the ship, who knew how it functioned, and they've never
talked to any reporter before. And I got to about
(07:19):
half the families who were very gracious, very helpful, and
they've also never talked to a writer before. And that
to me is, as we say, the untold story of the
ma Fitzgerald. That's what we're offering.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
We're speaking with author John you Bacon. The book is
The Gales of November. It's out now, The Untold Story
of the Edmond Fitzgerald. By the way, John U. Bacon
will be speaking at the Gerald R. Ford Museum. Will
put all this information in the links on our podcast.
He will be speaking there on November fourth. On November seventh,
you can see the great John Ugh Bacon at the
(07:53):
National Writer Series in Traverse City on November six, seven
pm in the Beautiful City Opera House in downtown Trevor City.
Virtual tickets are available for that. If you don't feel
like driving to TC from Grand Rapids, you can do
that and if you're listening to us as a podcast
wherever you are, you can watch virtually as well. The
(08:14):
Ford Museum talk again on November fourth. You know, it's interesting, John,
I was thinking about as a big fan of football,
especiallyly the Lions NFL football, there's a lot of similarities
between the brashness in your book about these these freighter captains.
I mean, they're smart people, but there are also people
(08:36):
who go against all wisdom and advice and warnings, especially
when it comes to weather. They're kind of a lot
like you know, the recklessness of a Dan Campbell or
some other you know renegade football coaches. Did you find
any similarities there?
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Well? In fact, I actually dropped one that one in
the book. As John Tanner, who is a superintendent performer
of the Great Lakes Maritime Academy at Traverse City, he said,
he's guys like football coach coaches, they got their egos
they're aggressive. One in doubt they're going to go, and
even not one in doubt, they're going to go. So
as one of the captains said BERNIEY Cooper of the
Arthur Anderson, which sailed alongside the Fitzgeriald that night, he said,
(09:15):
the company ain't paying me to lay the hook, which
means to put the anchor in. So these guys do
not turn around. They don't seek safe harbor, not in
seventy five. They just go, go, go, go go. And even
with that, mctory considered the most aggressive captain Ernest mcstroty
on the Great Lakes. He was the Fitzgerald's captain. He's
also the best pilot. Also, guys loved him. They're so loyal.
(09:39):
They followed him from ship to ship to ship. There's
very an interesting person, to say the least, even at that.
On his last voyage on September I'm sorry November ninth,
in nineteen seventy five, which was going to be his
last trip either way, he's going to retire in three days,
and he got the bonus to pay for his wife's
medical care in Toledo. This is truly heartbreaking. He decides
(10:02):
to take the northern route, which he almost never did,
which means you're hugging the shore of the Canadian side
of Lake Superior instead of going basically straight across. And
he does that to be cautious. He's almost never cautious
in these situations, and that actually might have backfired. He
takes fourteen hours longer, which allows the storm I head
start to get to Whitefish Babe before they do a
(10:24):
storm they barely knew about, sadly, and there's also less
familiar waters, which ends up mattering as well. So a
very interesting and complicated set of dynamics, if you will.
But the one time he's cautious, it might have been
the one time he probably shouldn't have been.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
John you Bacon is with us. His newest book is
The Gales of November, The Untold Story of Edmund Fitzgerald.
You can get it wherever books are sold, and you
can see him at the Gerald R. Ford Museum on
November fourth at the National Writers Series in Trivers City,
Michigan the Beautiful City Opera House. John You Bacon, what
do you hope people will take from this in terms
(11:03):
of the legacy of the sinking fifty years later?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Memories lessons?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
So you just talked about a great lesson about really
thinking this through before you do something that may have peril.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
What do you hope people will get from your new.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Book, Well, shipping is very hard and also vitally important,
especially those of us who live in the Great Lakes.
Trust me, the basement, I'm sorry, the cement in your basement,
the steel in your car, and the food in your
table all came from Great Lakes ships. The stuff you're
using today. It's immensely important. If if sulas were shut down,
(11:39):
our entire national economy would fail within three to six months.
That's how dramatic he would be. So one thing is
thesegether heroes before November ninth. But I really hope that
the readers take away who these guys really were, what
the lads are like, the sacrifices, the families at home
we're already making around you know, Wisconsin, Minnesota, the up Michigan, Ohio,
(12:04):
and so on before having happened. Their dads are on
these ships for nine months out of the year. It's
a very hard lifestyle and we owe a lot of
our lifestyle to it. So and the last thing, as
far as the wreck itself, these things are very complicated,
and I go with Ruth Hudson, the mother of Bruce Hudson,
her only child who went down with the ship. She said,
(12:25):
only thirty oh twenty nine men of God and no
one's talking. That will ultimately always be a mystery.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Yeah, it sure is.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
The great John you Bacon, our guest is newest book
is The Gils of November, The Untold Story of the
Edmund Fitzgerald. By the way, John's website is John Bacon
dot com. John, real quickly, we have a lightning round
before we wrap up this conversation. Okay, these are questions
realistically not related to the book, but you're you're a
(12:53):
radio commentator, so just roll with it. Okay, it's only radio.
So you're an ann arbor guy, John you Bacon. If
you have to live anywhere else in Michigan and tell
you you've got to pack up, you and your wife
and your kids have got to be.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Moved in a month? What Michigan city?
Speaker 4 (13:08):
And why Trivers City? And never knows why there?
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Okay, very good, excellent answer. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Our next question in the lightning round with author John
you Bacon, one of your future grandsons, John says, I
tells you is, Grandpa, I've decided to go to Michigan
State University. You've got just a couple of seconds to
convince them to attend the University of Michigan. What's your
(13:38):
wisdom for that grand kid?
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Wherever the grandson or my son wants to go. I'd
even say go green, go white. Might be harder first,
but I would do it.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Okay, I like you even more state a lot of
my friends.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
It's a first rate, world class research university. There's no
problem there.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Yeah, all right, that's.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, well that's you know what. But that's a fair
and honest answer, and I love it. I didn't expect
that answer. John new Bacon's newest book highly recommend.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
There's just so.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Many great stories in there I didn't know about, including
the Cedarville reck, which was only ten years before the
Edmund Fitzgerald. And even if you're just like me, like
lots of us mystified by the great lakes and shipwrecks,
this is the book to read. The Gales of November,
the Untold Story of the Edmund Fitzgerald, John new Bacon,
(14:29):
It's been an incredible honor and pleasure. Good luck in
Grand Rapids when we see you in a few weeks
and Traverse City as well.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Phil. Thank you very much your pros pro I'll come
back on anytime.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Would love that.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Love your stuff on NPR, love your stuff wherever it is.
The world is a better place because of your words.
Thanks John Bill, Thank you, John new Bacon, New York
Times bestselling author. Our guest on this segment of West
Michigan Weekend from iHeartRadio again. The new book is The
Gales of November.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
You've been listening to iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. West Michigan
Weekend is a production of Wood Radio and iHeartRadio
This is iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. West Michigan Weekend is
a weekly programmed designed to inform and enlighten on a
wide range of public policy issues, as well as news
and current events. Now here's your host, Phil Tower.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It's iHeartRadio West Michigan Weekend. And once again, thank you
so much for tuning in. I'm your host, Phil Tower.
It is a real honor and a pleasure to welcome
in this segment a guy who wears many hats. Best
known as a New York Times bestselling author, He's a
radio host, frequent national commentator on radio, and TV speaker.
(00:37):
If you're fortunate enough to have seen him in person,
John You Bacon, author of fourteen books, including seven national bestsellers.
His newest book, out in early October, is going to
do that again. His newest book, out in early October
already available is The Gales of November, The Untold Story
of Edmund Fitzgerald. Wow, you Bacon, welcome to iHeartRadio's West
(01:02):
Michigan Weekend Tale.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Thank you very much. Good to be on.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
This is a little unnerving, it's a little daunting talking
to another radio guy.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
So go easy, I'll go easy. On you.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I have so many questions, so many things that we
could talk about, but I want to talk about the book.
This is if you think about any stories, John U. Bacon,
there are all kinds of stories of interesting legends and proportions.
This is one, as a lifelong Michigan resident, that I
think everyone is familiar with. Whether they're thirteen or they're
(01:37):
eighty three, they probably heard about it. What fascinated you
or drew you after so many books to write about
the Edmond Fitzgerald great question.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Well, first of all, fail, by the way, no reason
to be daunted. You are a true radio professional. You
got the voice, you get the delivery. I'm a writer
who talked in the radio. Sometimes there's a difference. So
but you're very gracious.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
What drew me to it? I mean you got listeners
all across of course Western Michigan. I'm from ann Arburn,
spent my summers towards Lake, Traverse City, et cetera. I've
been in all these lakes. I bet most of your
listeners have were surrounded by it, so naturally there's an
automatic fascination. I think with this lifestyle. What struck me
is how little I bought this I really knew. I
(02:21):
knew the songs, certainly, I knew a bit of the
research on it. I didn't almost anything about Great League shipping,
who does it, how they do it, why they do it.
I didn't know that the Great Lakes are actually more
dangerous than the ocean according to commercial sailors. That came
as a real surprise. But what ultimately drew me, though,
was the twenty nine men. Is that we know that
(02:42):
they're twenty nine, we know the number, we don't know
who they are, and that, more than what happened, was
always part of the fascination. I think that's what really
drove me on this story. And I pitched it twenty
years ago to my agent who said no, So I
got a new agent. My agent a few years ago
said yes, so that one worked out.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
So this is not something that just happened in the
last couple of years. This is a two decades wish
out about a book that you wanted to write, and
finally the time is here. It doesn't hurt John that
this is the fiftieth anniversary. That caught me by surprise.
I was a I think it was a twelve year
old kid when the ship sank, and I was trying
(03:21):
to remember preparing for our conversation here.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
I was trying to.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Remember if I remembered it, and I remember newspapers were
a thing back then. I remember the headline, but I
really don't remember much about it. But it was something
that fascinated a lot of people, and of course it
was a terrible maritime tragedy.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
But you're going deep in the story.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
And what I love about the book is you talk
about just how dangerous the Great Lakes are. You just
alluded to that there's an estimate I saw of anywhere
between six to ten thousand ships sunk in the Great Lakes.
That's kind of a mind blowing number.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Yeah, the whole thing's mind blowing. You're right about that,
and that's what it got me. I was eleven when
it happens, so we're in the same category. I was
in sixth grade. I remembered pretty well, but again I
had no sense of where it stood, how it bears
compared to others the background. Of course, I was amazed
by this stat the one you just dropped between eighteen
(04:16):
seventy five and nineteen seventy five, when the Fitzgerald goes
down six to ten thousand commercial shipwrecks happened on the
Great Lakes, claiming at least thirty thousand lives. That is
one shipwreck a week every week for a century. That's
one casualty every day for a century. This is incredibly
(04:37):
dangerous and I really had no sense of that until
I got into it.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yeah, there are so many documents and there's been so
much research about the Fitzgerald.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
The boat.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
The wreckage of the boat has been found. Obviously, it's
going to stay there. It remains a very solemn and
important historical grave for those who were lost on the
ship November t nineteen seventy five. The boat is It's
of epic proportions. It was the largest ship when it
(05:09):
was launched in the late fifties.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
I think it was nineteen fifty eight, correct.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
But all those documents, all that research, the survivors talk
about that process. Every great author spends a lot of
time doing research or has a staff helping them with
the research. This could have been a little daunting, John,
talk about how you want about the project in terms
of what you focused on.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Well, it's completely daunting. Phil. I coughed that one up
right away. The football and hockey and leadership books have
written previously all took about a year, maybe a little
more by that much, and usually can't because they've got
to come out the next season and so on. This
one took me three and a half years, basically almost
four years. And that's my wife, You know, why does
(05:54):
this take me so long? As a NonStop hard work. Now,
like I coasted in the middle and she said, oh,
that you don't know anything. So yeah, I knew starbord
from port. I didn't know how long thews things were,
how big, how they're manufactured, what they're carrying, where the
port are, how this whole system works. So all that
(06:15):
was undenially daunting. But yeah, there's a great satisfaction though
in finding out things that people had not found before.
So in some ways being an outsider can be helpful
because the people who spend their lives in this tend
to burrow down certain rabbit holes of the technical side
or this side or that side. I want to take
(06:37):
an all inclusive approach basically, so I wanted to you know,
the history of the Great Lakes, history of shipping, how
these things are made, who makes them, who sales in
these things, why they do it, where they what the
lake on board? What's the lake on shore? I even
did what I call bar research, film, hard hitting and
investigative journalism to find out the various parts these guys
(06:57):
went to in the music you listened to. That bar
was what's fun as well, I think for the readers.
But the real key again was I got to fix crewman.
We've been on the ship before, obviously before it went
out that last time. Who knew the crew, who knew
the ship, who knew how it functioned, and they've never
talked to any reporter before. And I got to about
(07:19):
half the families who were very gracious, very helpful, and
they've also never talked to a writer before. And that
to me is, as we say, the untold story of the
ma Fitzgerald. That's what we're offering.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
We're speaking with author John you Bacon. The book is
The Gales of November. It's out now, The Untold Story
of the Edmond Fitzgerald. By the way, John U. Bacon
will be speaking at the Gerald R. Ford Museum. Will
put all this information in the links on our podcast.
He will be speaking there on November fourth. On November seventh,
you can see the great John Ugh Bacon at the
(07:53):
National Writer Series in Traverse City on November six, seven
pm in the Beautiful City Opera House in downtown Trevor City.
Virtual tickets are available for that. If you don't feel
like driving to TC from Grand Rapids, you can do
that and if you're listening to us as a podcast
wherever you are, you can watch virtually as well. The
(08:14):
Ford Museum talk again on November fourth. You know, it's interesting, John,
I was thinking about as a big fan of football,
especiallyly the Lions NFL football, there's a lot of similarities
between the brashness in your book about these these freighter captains.
I mean, they're smart people, but there are also people
(08:36):
who go against all wisdom and advice and warnings, especially
when it comes to weather. They're kind of a lot
like you know, the recklessness of a Dan Campbell or
some other you know renegade football coaches. Did you find
any similarities there?
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Well? In fact, I actually dropped one that one in
the book. As John Tanner, who is a superintendent performer
of the Great Lakes Maritime Academy at Traverse City, he said,
he's guys like football coach coaches, they got their egos
they're aggressive. One in doubt they're going to go, and
even not one in doubt, they're going to go. So
as one of the captains said BERNIEY Cooper of the
Arthur Anderson, which sailed alongside the Fitzgeriald that night, he said,
(09:15):
the company ain't paying me to lay the hook, which
means to put the anchor in. So these guys do
not turn around. They don't seek safe harbor, not in
seventy five. They just go, go, go, go go. And even
with that, mctory considered the most aggressive captain Ernest mcstroty
on the Great Lakes. He was the Fitzgerald's captain. He's
also the best pilot. Also, guys loved him. They're so loyal.
(09:39):
They followed him from ship to ship to ship. There's
very an interesting person, to say the least, even at that.
On his last voyage on September I'm sorry November ninth,
in nineteen seventy five, which was going to be his
last trip either way, he's going to retire in three days,
and he got the bonus to pay for his wife's
medical care in Toledo. This is truly heartbreaking. He decides
(10:02):
to take the northern route, which he almost never did,
which means you're hugging the shore of the Canadian side
of Lake Superior instead of going basically straight across. And
he does that to be cautious. He's almost never cautious
in these situations, and that actually might have backfired. He
takes fourteen hours longer, which allows the storm I head
start to get to Whitefish Babe before they do a
(10:24):
storm they barely knew about, sadly, and there's also less
familiar waters, which ends up mattering as well. So a
very interesting and complicated set of dynamics, if you will.
But the one time he's cautious, it might have been
the one time he probably shouldn't have been.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
John you Bacon is with us. His newest book is
The Gales of November, The Untold Story of Edmund Fitzgerald.
You can get it wherever books are sold, and you
can see him at the Gerald R. Ford Museum on
November fourth at the National Writers Series in Trivers City,
Michigan the Beautiful City Opera House. John You Bacon, what
do you hope people will take from this in terms
(11:03):
of the legacy of the sinking fifty years later?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Memories lessons?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
So you just talked about a great lesson about really
thinking this through before you do something that may have peril.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
What do you hope people will get from your new.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Book, Well, shipping is very hard and also vitally important,
especially those of us who live in the Great Lakes.
Trust me, the basement, I'm sorry, the cement in your basement,
the steel in your car, and the food in your
table all came from Great Lakes ships. The stuff you're
using today. It's immensely important. If if sulas were shut down,
(11:39):
our entire national economy would fail within three to six months.
That's how dramatic he would be. So one thing is
thesegether heroes before November ninth. But I really hope that
the readers take away who these guys really were, what
the lads are like, the sacrifices, the families at home
we're already making around you know, Wisconsin, Minnesota, the up Michigan, Ohio,
(12:04):
and so on before having happened. Their dads are on
these ships for nine months out of the year. It's
a very hard lifestyle and we owe a lot of
our lifestyle to it. So and the last thing, as
far as the wreck itself, these things are very complicated,
and I go with Ruth Hudson, the mother of Bruce Hudson,
her only child who went down with the ship. She said,
(12:25):
only thirty oh twenty nine men of God and no
one's talking. That will ultimately always be a mystery.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Yeah, it sure is.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
The great John you Bacon, our guest is newest book
is The Gils of November, The Untold Story of the
Edmund Fitzgerald. By the way, John's website is John Bacon
dot com. John, real quickly, we have a lightning round
before we wrap up this conversation. Okay, these are questions
realistically not related to the book, but you're you're a
(12:53):
radio commentator, so just roll with it. Okay, it's only radio.
So you're an ann arbor guy, John you Bacon. If
you have to live anywhere else in Michigan and tell
you you've got to pack up, you and your wife
and your kids have got to be.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Moved in a month? What Michigan city?
Speaker 4 (13:08):
And why Trivers City? And never knows why there?
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Okay, very good, excellent answer. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Our next question in the lightning round with author John
you Bacon, one of your future grandsons, John says, I
tells you is, Grandpa, I've decided to go to Michigan
State University. You've got just a couple of seconds to
convince them to attend the University of Michigan. What's your
(13:38):
wisdom for that grand kid?
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Wherever the grandson or my son wants to go. I'd
even say go green, go white. Might be harder first,
but I would do it.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Okay, I like you even more state a lot of
my friends.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
It's a first rate, world class research university. There's no
problem there.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Yeah, all right, that's.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, well that's you know what. But that's a fair
and honest answer, and I love it. I didn't expect
that answer. John new Bacon's newest book highly recommend.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
There's just so.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Many great stories in there I didn't know about, including
the Cedarville reck, which was only ten years before the
Edmund Fitzgerald. And even if you're just like me, like
lots of us mystified by the great lakes and shipwrecks,
this is the book to read. The Gales of November,
the Untold Story of the Edmund Fitzgerald, John new Bacon,
(14:29):
It's been an incredible honor and pleasure. Good luck in
Grand Rapids when we see you in a few weeks
and Traverse City as well.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Phil. Thank you very much your pros pro I'll come
back on anytime.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Would love that.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Love your stuff on NPR, love your stuff wherever it is.
The world is a better place because of your words.
Thanks John Bill, Thank you, John new Bacon, New York
Times bestselling author. Our guest on this segment of West
Michigan Weekend from iHeartRadio again. The new book is The
Gales of November.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
You've been listening to iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. West Michigan
Weekend is a production of Wood Radio and iHeartRadio
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