December 21, 2025 • 27 mins
In this episode, host Phil Tower welcomes Rev. Dr. Tanner Smith, Chief of Staff, The Colossian Forum.
About our guest: Rev. Dr. Tanner Smith serves as Chief of Staff at The Colossian Forum, a Christian nonprofit based in Grand Rapids.
The Colossian Forum equips believers, churches, and organizations to engage conflict not as something to avoid or fear, but as an opportunity for growth, deeper relationships, and spiritual formation. Their work is rooted in the conviction that “all things hold together in Christ” (Colossians 1:17).
The Colossian Forum’s work is guided by a compelling and timely mission:
to help Christians think, act, and lead more like Jesus—especially in moments of disagreement and tension—so that churches and communities can embody unity, compassion, and maturity even amid big differences.
Episode Overview:
In this conversation, Rev.Tanner Smith explores how Christians can faithfully navigate conflict in personal relationships, work life, church life, and many other places—without retreating into avoidance or hostility.
Topics Discussed
Learn More: The Colossian Forum
About our guest: Rev. Dr. Tanner Smith serves as Chief of Staff at The Colossian Forum, a Christian nonprofit based in Grand Rapids.
The Colossian Forum equips believers, churches, and organizations to engage conflict not as something to avoid or fear, but as an opportunity for growth, deeper relationships, and spiritual formation. Their work is rooted in the conviction that “all things hold together in Christ” (Colossians 1:17).
The Colossian Forum’s work is guided by a compelling and timely mission:
to help Christians think, act, and lead more like Jesus—especially in moments of disagreement and tension—so that churches and communities can embody unity, compassion, and maturity even amid big differences.
Episode Overview:
In this conversation, Rev.Tanner Smith explores how Christians can faithfully navigate conflict in personal relationships, work life, church life, and many other places—without retreating into avoidance or hostility.
Topics Discussed
- The programs, trainings, and presentations offered by The Colossian Forum
- What it means to be a non-anxious presence in an anxious and divided culture
- Navigating tense holiday gatherings and extended family relationships
- Approaches to healing or engaging with an estranged family member
- Why avoiding conflict altogether is not a faithful or effective solution
Learn More: The Colossian Forum
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. West Michigan Weekend is
a weekly programmed designed to win form and enlightened on
a wide range of public policy issues, as well as
news and current events. Now here's your host, Phil Tower.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm really pleased to welcome to this segment, Reverend doctor
Tanner Smith. He is the chief of staff at the
Claussian Forum. And you're probably going the Clauson Forum.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
What is that?
Speaker 4 (00:29):
What's it all about?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Well, if you attend church in West Michigan, you may
be somewhat familiar with the Clauson Forum. The claus Forum
is a Christian nonprofit that was born here in Grand Rapids.
And I'm hoping I'm getting this right, Tanner. That is
designed to equip believers, churches and organizations. I love this phrase,
(00:50):
to transform conflict not into division, but into opportunities for growth,
deeper connection and spiritual formation.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
Did I get most of it right?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Tanner? You nailed it, Phil, as always, you nailed it well.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Thank you, and first of all, thank you so much
for joining me on the program. And I have to
tell our iHeartRadio listeners a story.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
If that's okay.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I was with my wife at Cornerstone Church. We attend
Cornerstone Church. We were at the eighty fourth Street campus,
and this was not a church service. This was a
Wednesday night program called Life in the Messy Middle.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
And you were the guest.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Speaker, you in the Clauson Forum, And I just walked
away from that thinking, so many people need to hear this,
including people There are a lot of unchurched people Tanner
right in our midst in West Michigan. And I just
want to celebrate what you guys are doing. But I know,
I don't know, I probably know.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
This much of what you guys are doing.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
So could you give me and our listeners of just
kind of a short overview of what you and your
team do at the Colauson Forum. I love the name
your base to on Colossians one seventeen. All things hold
together in Christ? Is that essentially your foundational principle?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
That's it.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
Yeah, Conflict, even the word conflict feels so heavy. And
when we're in conflict, we feel like we have to
hold everything together. We have to fix another person, or
we have to fix the situation, or everything else is
just going to come apart. And maybe even we feel
like many of us feel like we're going to come
apart in conflict. And this idea in Colossians one seventeen
(02:32):
is no, Christ is holding all things together. Everything is secure,
everything is safe, everything is held together by God. You
don't have to So what you need to do is
sort of work on yourself in the relationship and allow
the spirit, the Holy Spirit, to work through you. So
that's the basis of what we do. We're sort of
(02:54):
testing that idea. Is God really holding all things together
in Christ? And if so, how can I have a
more relaxed, RESTful, open posture towards towards other person and
towards the conflict.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Yeah, and if I may.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
This is not a normal thing for people because avoiding
conflict Reverend Tator Smith avoiding conflicts, especially in marriages or
you know, with a sibling, that's the norm. You just
want to be pleasant, but there's that underlying current of
you did something wrong to me a long time ago,
and I'm still not happy with you.
Speaker 5 (03:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Yeah, we have kind of two modes of being in conflict.
Speaker 5 (03:33):
Some of us are very avoidant, like you said, we'll
do anything to keep the peace, and then others of
us are very defensive or combative in conflict and the
only thing that matters is winning. So, you know, avoidant
folks are just trying to you know, keep the peace
and or not.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
To lose the relationship.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
Defensive folks, we're more like trying not to lose ourselves,
like we want to win the conflict in the moment,
and in both ways of operating are really out of
the part of our part of the part of our brain.
That's that's sort of self preservation oriented, which isn't a
bad thing. Self preservation is good. You should protect yourself,
(04:11):
but it often gets in the way of connection and
genuine connection with other people.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
And so we have to learn new ways of.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
Engaging hard situations, hard conversations so that we can have
connection with each other but also maintain our own integrity.
And so that's the work that we do is teaching
people how to do that when the stakes.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Are really high.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
So you started, you and your team the Colossian FORDAM
started fifteen years ago. What was the inspiration for starting
this group and this really important programming and ministry.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yeah, honestly it was it was born out of.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
Parent and child who had some conflict and wanted to
understand how to how to navigate that conflict better again,
like I just said, to maintain connection while not losing themselves,
which is a really hard thing to do. And so
fifteen years ago, what we started out doing was having forums,
these public displays of people who deeply disagreed about something
(05:17):
and could still care about one another. And so we
would hold you know, you imagine like a big presentation space,
a concert hall or something, and you have a couple
of experts up on the stage deeply disagreeing, you know,
a lot of energy around their disagreement and still loving
and respecting each other even though they felt like the
other person's view was not just wrong but sometimes harmful.
(05:42):
So recognizing that staying in the relationship is how we
get through it. We think that conflict is not something
to be avoided. It's an opportunity for us to be transformed.
We can be changed when there's conflict. And the reason
is this, whenever there's conflict, it just means people care
about something a whole lot.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
And don't you want to be where people care about something.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
I mean, nothing's worse than apathy, right, Apathy is the
opposite of love. When there's energy, people are really engaged
in something that's where I want to be.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
That's what's interesting, that's what's life giving.
Speaker 5 (06:15):
So how do you move towards the energy without blowing
up the relationship or trying to destroy the other person.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah, that's so true and I think so much of this.
By the way, we're speaking with Reverend Tanner Smith, chief
of staff at the Colassian Forum. You can learn more
at colossianform dot org. Colossianform dot org that's co l
O S SIA and form dot org. And important thing
is I watched you during your life in the Messy
(06:43):
Middle presentation a couple of weeks ago at Cornerstone Church.
It was wonderful first and foremost, but I came away thinking,
for people of faith, you get this because this is
founded in biblical principles. I mean, if there was a uniter,
that guy Jesus Christ was the ultimate uniter and getting
people from all different walks of life to His goal
(07:05):
was to get people to get along and love each other.
Of course, it was a message of love, but outside
of people with faith, there's still so many applicable principles.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Here do you.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
And your team at the claus and Forum ever, going
to businesses and teach these things because I was thinking
about this, Tanner. So many businesses in West Michigan are
led by people who are people of faith. Maybe they
don't really have that as an undercurrent super strongly at work,
but still they believe and understand these principles. Talk about
(07:37):
how you would navigate this in the business world if
you would please.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Yeah, we do.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
We believe that all people. So there's there's statistics around this.
Ninety some percent of people since since the early days
of COVID and so now twenty three percent of people
have have lost a significant relationship and wow over politics
or over you know, something like there's a there's a
(08:03):
or they've lost a piece of it. It's not what
it was. And we can all probably point to ninety
cents most you know, nine out of ten of your
listeners are going to say, yep, I got somebody or
there's something that's strained, right, Only ten out of ten
of us have something that's trained and the other.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
But the good news is the same, ninety some percent
of people want to do better. We all recognize that
the way that it is is not the way that
it should be.
Speaker 5 (08:28):
We're sort of going around assuming that the people that
we disagree with politically are just like they're so ingrained
that they just they could just they don't really care
if they're connected with us.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
But that's actually not the truth.
Speaker 5 (08:39):
People want to have their opinions, but they also want
to have deep relationships. And the same thing goes for
you know, the places of work. All of us want
our workplaces to be places.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Where we're where we're meaningfully contributing to the mission that
we share.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
And so that's how we would approach it in a
business setting, is what are the core values and the
mission that you're all sewing together, and how do we
rally around that idea, around that that goal so that
we can improve the way that you do work together, communicate,
treat each other all that.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
Yeah, And the reality Oh sorry, go ahead, no, go ahead, No.
Speaker 5 (09:16):
I was just going to say, you know, every human being,
Christian not, you know, religious not, we all have these
deeply ingrained ways of acting and thinking and feeling like
our operating system, and they're all different, right, especially.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
When we're in a tense or anxious situation.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
And the reality is certain people bring out certain patterns
in us.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
So we have to examine those patterns and then learn.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
To make different choices that give us a chance to
break out of the cycles that we're often stuck in.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
That's true for Christians and non Christians alike.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
Yeah, that's so true.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
And it's as you're talking about this, I'm thinking about
coming out of a playically divisive election a year ago,
it still seems to be as politically divisive, socially divided
in so many areas, even churches, Tanner, even churches are divided.
(10:15):
There's conflict there, especially when you throw in the holiday
season with that, it is difficult to not get a
lot of anxiety worked up around that. Do you have
recommendations for people who struggle with this time of year
aside from the polarization, just struggle with the anxiousness of
(10:36):
getting together or maybe just saying the wrong thing in
a in front of a coworker. What what are your
recommendations for those people listening?
Speaker 5 (10:45):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Man, Yeah, this is we get.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
We get this question a lot, and I'm grateful because
our goal is not just to inspire people, but to
give them practical resources that.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
They can use in the moment but in real life.
You know.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
So, Yeah, I think first of all, the holidays are
like they're like a pressure cooker where they sort of
compress all of our big expectations and all of our
old patterns into really small spaces with a bunch of
people who mean a lot to us. So that's just
(11:19):
a recipe for disaster. Take all the people you really
care about and love who also have seen you since
you were a little kid, most of them, and have
a lot of opinions about how you should live your life,
and just put it into about two hours on a
Sunday afternoon and shake it up, you know. So I
think the first thing is just to recognize if it
feels hard, that's because it is, and just allow it
(11:42):
to be like, give it, you know, give it a name.
This is really hard. Yep, you're doing a hard thing.
Sometimes just noticing that you're doing a hard thing is
enough to give your body as like a past, be
a little bit disregulated, you know, a little bit upset
is normal if you're feeling that. But then the second
thing is recognizing that conflict isn't failure. If there's conflict,
(12:04):
it's just data. A little tension doesn't mean something's wrong.
Like I said before, it means that we care about something.
That there's something meaningful at stake. And what you can
get to underneath that is to say that means I
love something or I love someone. So if you're really
upset with your with the way that your parents voted,
or they're upset with you for the way you voted,
(12:26):
or they're upset with you at the significant other you
brought home for Christmas or something, right, Yes, what that
What that means is that they care about you.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Now, they might not be handling it well.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
Their actions might not be okay, and maybe you need
to put some boundaries up.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
But underneath that that.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
Conflict is care for you. There and and and so
move towards the care, I guess. And there are concrete
ways that we can do that. But here's the one
that I'll say is being a what we call a
non anxious presence is the key. One calm person can
(13:09):
change the tone of the entire room. So if somebody
escalates about the way you voted, or the person you
brought home, or the you know, the fact that the
jello that you brought has celery in it, which I
think is.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
A real problem.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
Yes, I'm with you on that.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
Just slowing your body down, slowing your breathing, noticing the
emotions that you're having in the moment, notice that your
you know, lower your voice, and just ask one curious question, like,
for instance, okay, that's interesting. Can you say more about
about what's at stake for you? In that you could say,
can you say more about how you see it? How
(13:45):
did you come to see it that way? And all
of a sudden, what you're saying is I actually want
to understand you.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Because I care about you and the relationship.
Speaker 5 (13:52):
And what that does is it regulates you, but but
it also regulates the other helps to regulate the other person,
you co regulate with them a little bit, and you
both settle down and maybe a door cracks open for
moving forward.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah, or even just something as simple as we're family.
We might not agree on everything, but we know we
this is this is something that's important for us. We're blood.
Can we just agree to disagree? Or as you said,
because not. Sometimes you may ask that question and it
may even get messier. But I really love what you said.
(14:29):
There needs to be and if I can give echo
anything you just said, be that person of peace in
the room.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Be that person of peace in the room, because.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
There might be four or five other people who want
to pull out their derringers or their swords or whatever
and go at it. And that may be the spirit
of some families, Tanner, but it's it certainly doesn't have
to be that way. No, I want to get a
little deeper in this mess messy area, if it's okay
with you. People who have been ostracized or kind of outcast,
(15:04):
considered an outcast by mom and dad or the family
as a whole, they did this a long time ago
and they're just not invited to family events anymore, or
maybe they self selected out because of some deep hurts
in past.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
Do you have wisdom?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
I know, without a doubt there are people listening to
us right now who are dealing with that, and it's.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Especially painful around the holidays.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Do you have any wisdom on how to work to
restore that disconnected person, that person who just said I
can't handle my family anymore.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (15:38):
Well, yeah, First of all, I'm my heart goes out
to you. I know that's increasingly so.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
I hear a lot. We do these workshops.
Speaker 5 (15:50):
And trainings all over the United States and in Canada,
and without exception, I hear from you know, at least
one person or two who are three parents children who
say I'm a strange from my folks, or I'm a
strange from my siblings, or I'm a strange from my child.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
What do I do? And so, yeah, I know it's a.
Speaker 5 (16:11):
Real problem, and it breaks my heart because I can
imagine what that strangement feel like in my own life.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
I think that might be part of it. First of all,
is to.
Speaker 5 (16:19):
Is to allow yourself to grieve the fact that it
feels like this isn't the way it should be. Tells
you the truth, it shouldn't be this way, and that's
really hard, and so do.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Some grief work.
Speaker 5 (16:30):
There's a lot of great books out there on grief
and how to grieve relationships and how to deal with
the fact that you know things aren't the way that
you wish they would be. I think the next thing
is to do a little internal investigation about what you
can handle.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
I think about boundaries.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
What are the boundaries that you need to put in
place for you to be okay, for you to be safe.
Boundaries are really important. I mean, I said earlier, ask
a curious question. If somebody you know brings up you know,
something hard at the holidays, Another option is to say, hey,
can we not talk about this right now? And that
is that is a legitimate response. What we have to
(17:09):
do is learn to distinguish between our discomfort and harm
happening to us. A lot of times we think that,
you know, somebody wants to talk about something hard, we're uncomfortable.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
We think that.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
They're being mean or hurting us, and maybe that's true,
but we have to figure out, maybe I'm just a
little uncomfortable, and you know what, actually being uncomfortable is Okay.
Sometimes how can I stretch my ability to handle discomfort? Yes,
and sometimes people are saying things are doing things that
are harmful, and you need to have boundaries and say no,
(17:45):
I think Another thing to do then once you figured
out yes, I want this relationship and I can handle
it is to ask yourself and literally get out a
piece of paper and write down at the top what
do I want?
Speaker 3 (17:58):
And then right underneath that, know what do I really want?
Speaker 5 (18:03):
Because we might say I want my mom to stop
asking me when we're going to have kids.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Yep, you probably do want that, but what do you
really want? What's underneath that?
Speaker 5 (18:16):
What's the relationship that you want with your mom or
your sibling or whoever, or your child. You know, if
your child has has done something that you feel like,
I just don't know how to even talk about that
or make sense of that. You know what, don't talk
about it, don't try to make sense of it. Start
with the relationship, Start with loving the person, start with being.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Curious about their life. So say what do I really want?
Speaker 5 (18:39):
And you know, honestly, most of us we want to
be known and loved for who we really are. And
that's a I mean, I'm married and have a wonderful relationship,
and I want to be known and love for who
I really am.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
And that is a life long process of self revelation.
Speaker 5 (19:00):
I reveal a little bit more about myself and then
she responds in some way. We like to say consistency
is better than intensity. So that again, consistency is better
than intensity. So if you want something, begin the long,
slow path of building towards that connection rather than creating
(19:22):
some really intense environment where you try to fix the
whole thing at once, because.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
It's not how it works.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
And last, and I'll say is for some folks estrangement,
you've got to get some professional help. There are people
who are really good at navigating this stuff and will
help you learn how to manage yourself because a lot
of times estrangement happens because we're trying to manage other people,
fix them. And the reality is you can't fix or
(19:50):
change anybody else, but you can manage yourself.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
You can change yourself, and so.
Speaker 5 (19:55):
Work on what you can do and that will actually
change the relationship.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
So good, great wisdom. I love the consistency versus intensity.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
Tanner really love that.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Reverend doctor Tanner Smith, chief of staff at the Colauson Forum,
with us on iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. Colausonforum dot org
is their website. They are based here in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
Can you talk about what kind of offerings you and
your team have at the Colauson Forum. There might be
people listening to us right now who say our church
(20:31):
needs to hear this message, my place of work needs
to hear this message.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
How do people engage with you and your team?
Speaker 5 (20:40):
Well, yeah, our goal is to inspire hope, but not
just inspire hope that things can be different. We want
people to actually be able to make changes in their
most challenging relationships. So everything we do is practice based,
so you can come to we have workshops, for instance,
that we do when you attended, we have a number
(21:01):
of different topics, some of them on emotional and spiritual maturity, so.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
How do you work on the on the engine of
your own life.
Speaker 5 (21:08):
A lot of the other ones are on interpersonal interpersonal
practices or organizational practices. How do the organizations that you
work with become reliable in conflict?
Speaker 3 (21:21):
So we have workshops very practice based.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
You will walk away with things that you can immediately
apply in your home, at your work, in your church
the next the next day. That's a big part of
what we do. We also offer coaching and consulting. And
coaching is for individuals or groups who have something specific
that they want to work on, and we have an
(21:45):
organizational assessment that we can do that will help you
understand how these communication patterns you know, might break down
and then we coach and make a plan with folks.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Same thing with consulting.
Speaker 5 (21:54):
We consult with colleges and universities, school systems, churches, nonprofits, businesses.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
We also you know, if.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
You're like you want to you don't want to dive
into the deep end of the pool and bring us
in We have free downloadable guides that are.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
I mean, they probably shouldn't be free.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
They're they're giving away our IP right, Yeah, just so,
we so desperately want people to have better relationships, and
we want people to experience God's love in their primary relationships.
So we have a guide on slowing down, how to
slow yourself down, which we say is like the first
thing to know about conflict. Slow down you're going too fast.
(22:34):
We have one on how to stay grounded. We have
one coming out in January on finding hope in your
hardest relationships. So maybe for some of your listeners that'll
be one to look for. The last thing I'll say
is you.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Know to think.
Speaker 5 (22:46):
We have a we have a bi weekly newsletter with
hopeful stories and practices. Go to our website and sign
up for that's right in the front page, and you'll
get stuff in your inbox that actually helps you take
next steps, concrete next steps that's free. We have a
podcast called the Practicing HOPEO podcast that is very very practical.
We did one about what hurry is doing to your relationships,
(23:07):
one about how not to lose yourself when you're in conflict.
There's just practical things that we think most people are
are dealing with so practicing hope podcasts another way.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Yeah, at Cornerstone Church you talked about downloading. You offered
that download on slowing Down and I'm going to confess
on the radio right now. I still need to read that.
I'm going to read that, I promise you, in front
of all of West Michigan and beyond, I will read that, Tanner.
I need to read that. I was so inspired by
your message. And just so our listeners don't know this,
(23:39):
I didn't talk to you at that event. You didn't
come up to me and say, hey, you should have
me on the radio. I just walked away from there
thinking our listeners here at I heearten in to hear Tanner.
And I'm so grateful for the generosity of your time.
I have one other question for you, and it's probably
one of the most challenging things, but you've really offered
(24:00):
so much hope. We're Biblically we're supposed to love our enemies.
It's a very basic Christian concept.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
But some people just will not let that one go.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
They maybe five or six enemies they can love, but
that's six. No, it's just not doable. How do you
work with that really stubborn person who may be a
spiritual person of faith but just stands their ground because
they know they're right. Is there hope for that person, Tanner, Oh.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
I think there's hope for all of us.
Speaker 5 (24:38):
The Holy Spirit can only do lots of things, and
that's probably one of them. But I think the you know,
whether or not Christians are living it right now, the
truth is we do have a very clear model of
how we ought to be with other people, and that
(24:58):
is the life, death, it and resurrection of Jesus, who,
even when he's on the cross, prays for his enemies.
He has a soft heart, even towards those who hate him,
because he knows that that's what transforms, that is what
transforms this world, That's what transforms relationship, is a heart
of compassion. So I think, you know, praying for someone
(25:22):
to soften, knowing that the Spirit does that.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
But also calling one another, I mean, those of us who.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
Are Christians and we ought to be known by the
way that we model rice like love for people who
are hard for us. I think recognizing nobody is just
their quirks. Thank God, I'm not just my quorks. I
got a lot of them. Nobody is just their politics,
nobody is just their past mistakes. People are complicated. Let
(25:50):
them be complicated and love them in the complexity. And
here's the other thing. Never underestimate the power of a
good apology. Repair were is so important? Hey, I didn't
say that very well? Can I try again? Most people
will say, yeah, try again, you know, can we or
(26:11):
can we hit the reset button? Because I really this
relationship is really important to me. You know, softening ourselves
opens the door for somebody else to soften themselves too.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Great wisdom, really wonderful wisdom, and so important.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
You know.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
My rule is with this guy, with this person, if
I was stuck on the side of the road needed
a tire change, even though we disagreed, would I want
this person to change my entire would they go out
of their way? And that's kind of that selfless heart
thing that we can still disagree, but we can help
each other out. The mark of a true friend or
a true coworker or whatever it may be. But such
(26:48):
great wisdom and the simple power of an apology. I
think I should put that on like repeat and play it.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
For the rest of the month. It's just good stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Doctor Tanner Smith chief of staff at the Colossian Forum.
I'm going to give the website again. It's Colossionforum dot org.
As you heard Tanner say, there's so many great resources there,
including make sure we'll put the link in our podcast
notes the free download on slowing Down. Tanner, this has
been a real honor and pleasure and I'm so glad
(27:20):
we could make this happen.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
Thank you as well.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
A shout out to Sarah on your team for connecting us.
This is good stuff, Tanner.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Enjoy has been mine. Thanks Phil.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah, good stuff indeed, Reverend doctor Tanner Smith. The group
is the Colossian Forum and they are based here in
West Michigan. So much good information, so much too unpack,
and you can check it out at Colossinforum dot org.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
You've been listening to iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. West Michigan
Weekend is a production of Wood Radio and iHeartRadio
This is iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. West Michigan Weekend is
a weekly programmed designed to win form and enlightened on
a wide range of public policy issues, as well as
news and current events. Now here's your host, Phil Tower.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm really pleased to welcome to this segment, Reverend doctor
Tanner Smith. He is the chief of staff at the
Claussian Forum. And you're probably going the Clauson Forum.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
What is that?
Speaker 4 (00:29):
What's it all about?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Well, if you attend church in West Michigan, you may
be somewhat familiar with the Clauson Forum. The claus Forum
is a Christian nonprofit that was born here in Grand Rapids.
And I'm hoping I'm getting this right, Tanner. That is
designed to equip believers, churches and organizations. I love this phrase,
(00:50):
to transform conflict not into division, but into opportunities for growth,
deeper connection and spiritual formation.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
Did I get most of it right?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Tanner? You nailed it, Phil, as always, you nailed it well.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Thank you, and first of all, thank you so much
for joining me on the program. And I have to
tell our iHeartRadio listeners a story.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
If that's okay.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I was with my wife at Cornerstone Church. We attend
Cornerstone Church. We were at the eighty fourth Street campus,
and this was not a church service. This was a
Wednesday night program called Life in the Messy Middle.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
And you were the guest.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Speaker, you in the Clauson Forum, And I just walked
away from that thinking, so many people need to hear this,
including people There are a lot of unchurched people Tanner
right in our midst in West Michigan. And I just
want to celebrate what you guys are doing. But I know,
I don't know, I probably know.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
This much of what you guys are doing.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
So could you give me and our listeners of just
kind of a short overview of what you and your
team do at the Colauson Forum. I love the name
your base to on Colossians one seventeen. All things hold
together in Christ? Is that essentially your foundational principle?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
That's it.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
Yeah, Conflict, even the word conflict feels so heavy. And
when we're in conflict, we feel like we have to
hold everything together. We have to fix another person, or
we have to fix the situation, or everything else is
just going to come apart. And maybe even we feel
like many of us feel like we're going to come
apart in conflict. And this idea in Colossians one seventeen
(02:32):
is no, Christ is holding all things together. Everything is secure,
everything is safe, everything is held together by God. You
don't have to So what you need to do is
sort of work on yourself in the relationship and allow
the spirit, the Holy Spirit, to work through you. So
that's the basis of what we do. We're sort of
(02:54):
testing that idea. Is God really holding all things together
in Christ? And if so, how can I have a
more relaxed, RESTful, open posture towards towards other person and
towards the conflict.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Yeah, and if I may.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
This is not a normal thing for people because avoiding
conflict Reverend Tator Smith avoiding conflicts, especially in marriages or
you know, with a sibling, that's the norm. You just
want to be pleasant, but there's that underlying current of
you did something wrong to me a long time ago,
and I'm still not happy with you.
Speaker 5 (03:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Yeah, we have kind of two modes of being in conflict.
Speaker 5 (03:33):
Some of us are very avoidant, like you said, we'll
do anything to keep the peace, and then others of
us are very defensive or combative in conflict and the
only thing that matters is winning. So, you know, avoidant
folks are just trying to you know, keep the peace
and or not.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
To lose the relationship.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
Defensive folks, we're more like trying not to lose ourselves,
like we want to win the conflict in the moment,
and in both ways of operating are really out of
the part of our part of the part of our brain.
That's that's sort of self preservation oriented, which isn't a
bad thing. Self preservation is good. You should protect yourself,
(04:11):
but it often gets in the way of connection and
genuine connection with other people.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
And so we have to learn new ways of.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
Engaging hard situations, hard conversations so that we can have
connection with each other but also maintain our own integrity.
And so that's the work that we do is teaching
people how to do that when the stakes.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Are really high.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
So you started, you and your team the Colossian FORDAM
started fifteen years ago. What was the inspiration for starting
this group and this really important programming and ministry.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yeah, honestly it was it was born out of.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
Parent and child who had some conflict and wanted to
understand how to how to navigate that conflict better again,
like I just said, to maintain connection while not losing themselves,
which is a really hard thing to do. And so
fifteen years ago, what we started out doing was having forums,
these public displays of people who deeply disagreed about something
(05:17):
and could still care about one another. And so we
would hold you know, you imagine like a big presentation space,
a concert hall or something, and you have a couple
of experts up on the stage deeply disagreeing, you know,
a lot of energy around their disagreement and still loving
and respecting each other even though they felt like the
other person's view was not just wrong but sometimes harmful.
(05:42):
So recognizing that staying in the relationship is how we
get through it. We think that conflict is not something
to be avoided. It's an opportunity for us to be transformed.
We can be changed when there's conflict. And the reason
is this, whenever there's conflict, it just means people care
about something a whole lot.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
And don't you want to be where people care about something.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
I mean, nothing's worse than apathy, right, Apathy is the
opposite of love. When there's energy, people are really engaged
in something that's where I want to be.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
That's what's interesting, that's what's life giving.
Speaker 5 (06:15):
So how do you move towards the energy without blowing
up the relationship or trying to destroy the other person.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah, that's so true and I think so much of this.
By the way, we're speaking with Reverend Tanner Smith, chief
of staff at the Colassian Forum. You can learn more
at colossianform dot org. Colossianform dot org that's co l
O S SIA and form dot org. And important thing
is I watched you during your life in the Messy
(06:43):
Middle presentation a couple of weeks ago at Cornerstone Church.
It was wonderful first and foremost, but I came away thinking,
for people of faith, you get this because this is
founded in biblical principles. I mean, if there was a uniter,
that guy Jesus Christ was the ultimate uniter and getting
people from all different walks of life to His goal
(07:05):
was to get people to get along and love each other.
Of course, it was a message of love, but outside
of people with faith, there's still so many applicable principles.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Here do you.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
And your team at the claus and Forum ever, going
to businesses and teach these things because I was thinking
about this, Tanner. So many businesses in West Michigan are
led by people who are people of faith. Maybe they
don't really have that as an undercurrent super strongly at work,
but still they believe and understand these principles. Talk about
(07:37):
how you would navigate this in the business world if
you would please.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Yeah, we do.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
We believe that all people. So there's there's statistics around this.
Ninety some percent of people since since the early days
of COVID and so now twenty three percent of people
have have lost a significant relationship and wow over politics
or over you know, something like there's a there's a
(08:03):
or they've lost a piece of it. It's not what
it was. And we can all probably point to ninety
cents most you know, nine out of ten of your
listeners are going to say, yep, I got somebody or
there's something that's strained, right, Only ten out of ten
of us have something that's trained and the other.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
But the good news is the same, ninety some percent
of people want to do better. We all recognize that
the way that it is is not the way that
it should be.
Speaker 5 (08:28):
We're sort of going around assuming that the people that
we disagree with politically are just like they're so ingrained
that they just they could just they don't really care
if they're connected with us.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
But that's actually not the truth.
Speaker 5 (08:39):
People want to have their opinions, but they also want
to have deep relationships. And the same thing goes for
you know, the places of work. All of us want
our workplaces to be places.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Where we're where we're meaningfully contributing to the mission that
we share.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
And so that's how we would approach it in a
business setting, is what are the core values and the
mission that you're all sewing together, and how do we
rally around that idea, around that that goal so that
we can improve the way that you do work together, communicate,
treat each other all that.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
Yeah, And the reality Oh sorry, go ahead, no, go ahead, No.
Speaker 5 (09:16):
I was just going to say, you know, every human being,
Christian not, you know, religious not, we all have these
deeply ingrained ways of acting and thinking and feeling like
our operating system, and they're all different, right, especially.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
When we're in a tense or anxious situation.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
And the reality is certain people bring out certain patterns
in us.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
So we have to examine those patterns and then learn.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
To make different choices that give us a chance to
break out of the cycles that we're often stuck in.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
That's true for Christians and non Christians alike.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
Yeah, that's so true.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
And it's as you're talking about this, I'm thinking about
coming out of a playically divisive election a year ago,
it still seems to be as politically divisive, socially divided
in so many areas, even churches, Tanner, even churches are divided.
(10:15):
There's conflict there, especially when you throw in the holiday
season with that, it is difficult to not get a
lot of anxiety worked up around that. Do you have
recommendations for people who struggle with this time of year
aside from the polarization, just struggle with the anxiousness of
(10:36):
getting together or maybe just saying the wrong thing in
a in front of a coworker. What what are your
recommendations for those people listening?
Speaker 5 (10:45):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Man, Yeah, this is we get.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
We get this question a lot, and I'm grateful because
our goal is not just to inspire people, but to
give them practical resources that.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
They can use in the moment but in real life.
You know.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
So, Yeah, I think first of all, the holidays are
like they're like a pressure cooker where they sort of
compress all of our big expectations and all of our
old patterns into really small spaces with a bunch of
people who mean a lot to us. So that's just
(11:19):
a recipe for disaster. Take all the people you really
care about and love who also have seen you since
you were a little kid, most of them, and have
a lot of opinions about how you should live your life,
and just put it into about two hours on a
Sunday afternoon and shake it up, you know. So I
think the first thing is just to recognize if it
feels hard, that's because it is, and just allow it
(11:42):
to be like, give it, you know, give it a name.
This is really hard. Yep, you're doing a hard thing.
Sometimes just noticing that you're doing a hard thing is
enough to give your body as like a past, be
a little bit disregulated, you know, a little bit upset
is normal if you're feeling that. But then the second
thing is recognizing that conflict isn't failure. If there's conflict,
(12:04):
it's just data. A little tension doesn't mean something's wrong.
Like I said before, it means that we care about something.
That there's something meaningful at stake. And what you can
get to underneath that is to say that means I
love something or I love someone. So if you're really
upset with your with the way that your parents voted,
or they're upset with you for the way you voted,
(12:26):
or they're upset with you at the significant other you
brought home for Christmas or something, right, Yes, what that
What that means is that they care about you.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Now, they might not be handling it well.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
Their actions might not be okay, and maybe you need
to put some boundaries up.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
But underneath that that.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
Conflict is care for you. There and and and so
move towards the care, I guess. And there are concrete
ways that we can do that. But here's the one
that I'll say is being a what we call a
non anxious presence is the key. One calm person can
(13:09):
change the tone of the entire room. So if somebody
escalates about the way you voted, or the person you
brought home, or the you know, the fact that the
jello that you brought has celery in it, which I
think is.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
A real problem.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
Yes, I'm with you on that.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
Just slowing your body down, slowing your breathing, noticing the
emotions that you're having in the moment, notice that your
you know, lower your voice, and just ask one curious question, like,
for instance, okay, that's interesting. Can you say more about
about what's at stake for you? In that you could say,
can you say more about how you see it? How
(13:45):
did you come to see it that way? And all
of a sudden, what you're saying is I actually want
to understand you.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Because I care about you and the relationship.
Speaker 5 (13:52):
And what that does is it regulates you, but but
it also regulates the other helps to regulate the other person,
you co regulate with them a little bit, and you
both settle down and maybe a door cracks open for
moving forward.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah, or even just something as simple as we're family.
We might not agree on everything, but we know we
this is this is something that's important for us. We're blood.
Can we just agree to disagree? Or as you said,
because not. Sometimes you may ask that question and it
may even get messier. But I really love what you said.
(14:29):
There needs to be and if I can give echo
anything you just said, be that person of peace in
the room.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Be that person of peace in the room, because.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
There might be four or five other people who want
to pull out their derringers or their swords or whatever
and go at it. And that may be the spirit
of some families, Tanner, but it's it certainly doesn't have
to be that way. No, I want to get a
little deeper in this mess messy area, if it's okay
with you. People who have been ostracized or kind of outcast,
(15:04):
considered an outcast by mom and dad or the family
as a whole, they did this a long time ago
and they're just not invited to family events anymore, or
maybe they self selected out because of some deep hurts
in past.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
Do you have wisdom?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
I know, without a doubt there are people listening to
us right now who are dealing with that, and it's.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Especially painful around the holidays.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Do you have any wisdom on how to work to
restore that disconnected person, that person who just said I
can't handle my family anymore.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (15:38):
Well, yeah, First of all, I'm my heart goes out
to you. I know that's increasingly so.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
I hear a lot. We do these workshops.
Speaker 5 (15:50):
And trainings all over the United States and in Canada,
and without exception, I hear from you know, at least
one person or two who are three parents children who
say I'm a strange from my folks, or I'm a
strange from my siblings, or I'm a strange from my child.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
What do I do? And so, yeah, I know it's a.
Speaker 5 (16:11):
Real problem, and it breaks my heart because I can
imagine what that strangement feel like in my own life.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
I think that might be part of it. First of all,
is to.
Speaker 5 (16:19):
Is to allow yourself to grieve the fact that it
feels like this isn't the way it should be. Tells
you the truth, it shouldn't be this way, and that's
really hard, and so do.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Some grief work.
Speaker 5 (16:30):
There's a lot of great books out there on grief
and how to grieve relationships and how to deal with
the fact that you know things aren't the way that
you wish they would be. I think the next thing
is to do a little internal investigation about what you
can handle.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
I think about boundaries.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
What are the boundaries that you need to put in
place for you to be okay, for you to be safe.
Boundaries are really important. I mean, I said earlier, ask
a curious question. If somebody you know brings up you know,
something hard at the holidays, Another option is to say, hey,
can we not talk about this right now? And that
is that is a legitimate response. What we have to
(17:09):
do is learn to distinguish between our discomfort and harm
happening to us. A lot of times we think that,
you know, somebody wants to talk about something hard, we're uncomfortable.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
We think that.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
They're being mean or hurting us, and maybe that's true,
but we have to figure out, maybe I'm just a
little uncomfortable, and you know what, actually being uncomfortable is Okay.
Sometimes how can I stretch my ability to handle discomfort? Yes,
and sometimes people are saying things are doing things that
are harmful, and you need to have boundaries and say no,
(17:45):
I think Another thing to do then once you figured
out yes, I want this relationship and I can handle
it is to ask yourself and literally get out a
piece of paper and write down at the top what
do I want?
Speaker 3 (17:58):
And then right underneath that, know what do I really want?
Speaker 5 (18:03):
Because we might say I want my mom to stop
asking me when we're going to have kids.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Yep, you probably do want that, but what do you
really want? What's underneath that?
Speaker 5 (18:16):
What's the relationship that you want with your mom or
your sibling or whoever, or your child. You know, if
your child has has done something that you feel like,
I just don't know how to even talk about that
or make sense of that. You know what, don't talk
about it, don't try to make sense of it. Start
with the relationship, Start with loving the person, start with being.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Curious about their life. So say what do I really want?
Speaker 5 (18:39):
And you know, honestly, most of us we want to
be known and loved for who we really are. And
that's a I mean, I'm married and have a wonderful relationship,
and I want to be known and love for who
I really am.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
And that is a life long process of self revelation.
Speaker 5 (19:00):
I reveal a little bit more about myself and then
she responds in some way. We like to say consistency
is better than intensity. So that again, consistency is better
than intensity. So if you want something, begin the long,
slow path of building towards that connection rather than creating
(19:22):
some really intense environment where you try to fix the
whole thing at once, because.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
It's not how it works.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
And last, and I'll say is for some folks estrangement,
you've got to get some professional help. There are people
who are really good at navigating this stuff and will
help you learn how to manage yourself because a lot
of times estrangement happens because we're trying to manage other people,
fix them. And the reality is you can't fix or
(19:50):
change anybody else, but you can manage yourself.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
You can change yourself, and so.
Speaker 5 (19:55):
Work on what you can do and that will actually
change the relationship.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
So good, great wisdom. I love the consistency versus intensity.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
Tanner really love that.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Reverend doctor Tanner Smith, chief of staff at the Colauson Forum,
with us on iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. Colausonforum dot org
is their website. They are based here in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
Can you talk about what kind of offerings you and
your team have at the Colauson Forum. There might be
people listening to us right now who say our church
(20:31):
needs to hear this message, my place of work needs
to hear this message.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
How do people engage with you and your team?
Speaker 5 (20:40):
Well, yeah, our goal is to inspire hope, but not
just inspire hope that things can be different. We want
people to actually be able to make changes in their
most challenging relationships. So everything we do is practice based,
so you can come to we have workshops, for instance,
that we do when you attended, we have a number
(21:01):
of different topics, some of them on emotional and spiritual maturity, so.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
How do you work on the on the engine of
your own life.
Speaker 5 (21:08):
A lot of the other ones are on interpersonal interpersonal
practices or organizational practices. How do the organizations that you
work with become reliable in conflict?
Speaker 3 (21:21):
So we have workshops very practice based.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
You will walk away with things that you can immediately
apply in your home, at your work, in your church
the next the next day. That's a big part of
what we do. We also offer coaching and consulting. And
coaching is for individuals or groups who have something specific
that they want to work on, and we have an
(21:45):
organizational assessment that we can do that will help you
understand how these communication patterns you know, might break down
and then we coach and make a plan with folks.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Same thing with consulting.
Speaker 5 (21:54):
We consult with colleges and universities, school systems, churches, nonprofits, businesses.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
We also you know, if.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
You're like you want to you don't want to dive
into the deep end of the pool and bring us
in We have free downloadable guides that are.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
I mean, they probably shouldn't be free.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
They're they're giving away our IP right, Yeah, just so,
we so desperately want people to have better relationships, and
we want people to experience God's love in their primary relationships.
So we have a guide on slowing down, how to
slow yourself down, which we say is like the first
thing to know about conflict. Slow down you're going too fast.
(22:34):
We have one on how to stay grounded. We have
one coming out in January on finding hope in your
hardest relationships. So maybe for some of your listeners that'll
be one to look for. The last thing I'll say
is you.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Know to think.
Speaker 5 (22:46):
We have a we have a bi weekly newsletter with
hopeful stories and practices. Go to our website and sign
up for that's right in the front page, and you'll
get stuff in your inbox that actually helps you take
next steps, concrete next steps that's free. We have a
podcast called the Practicing HOPEO podcast that is very very practical.
We did one about what hurry is doing to your relationships,
(23:07):
one about how not to lose yourself when you're in conflict.
There's just practical things that we think most people are
are dealing with so practicing hope podcasts another way.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Yeah, at Cornerstone Church you talked about downloading. You offered
that download on slowing Down and I'm going to confess
on the radio right now. I still need to read that.
I'm going to read that, I promise you, in front
of all of West Michigan and beyond, I will read that, Tanner.
I need to read that. I was so inspired by
your message. And just so our listeners don't know this,
(23:39):
I didn't talk to you at that event. You didn't
come up to me and say, hey, you should have
me on the radio. I just walked away from there
thinking our listeners here at I heearten in to hear Tanner.
And I'm so grateful for the generosity of your time.
I have one other question for you, and it's probably
one of the most challenging things, but you've really offered
(24:00):
so much hope. We're Biblically we're supposed to love our enemies.
It's a very basic Christian concept.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
But some people just will not let that one go.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
They maybe five or six enemies they can love, but
that's six. No, it's just not doable. How do you
work with that really stubborn person who may be a
spiritual person of faith but just stands their ground because
they know they're right. Is there hope for that person, Tanner, Oh.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
I think there's hope for all of us.
Speaker 5 (24:38):
The Holy Spirit can only do lots of things, and
that's probably one of them. But I think the you know,
whether or not Christians are living it right now, the
truth is we do have a very clear model of
how we ought to be with other people, and that
(24:58):
is the life, death, it and resurrection of Jesus, who,
even when he's on the cross, prays for his enemies.
He has a soft heart, even towards those who hate him,
because he knows that that's what transforms, that is what
transforms this world, That's what transforms relationship, is a heart
of compassion. So I think, you know, praying for someone
(25:22):
to soften, knowing that the Spirit does that.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
But also calling one another, I mean, those of us who.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
Are Christians and we ought to be known by the
way that we model rice like love for people who
are hard for us. I think recognizing nobody is just
their quirks. Thank God, I'm not just my quorks. I
got a lot of them. Nobody is just their politics,
nobody is just their past mistakes. People are complicated. Let
(25:50):
them be complicated and love them in the complexity. And
here's the other thing. Never underestimate the power of a
good apology. Repair were is so important? Hey, I didn't
say that very well? Can I try again? Most people
will say, yeah, try again, you know, can we or
(26:11):
can we hit the reset button? Because I really this
relationship is really important to me. You know, softening ourselves
opens the door for somebody else to soften themselves too.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Great wisdom, really wonderful wisdom, and so important.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
You know.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
My rule is with this guy, with this person, if
I was stuck on the side of the road needed
a tire change, even though we disagreed, would I want
this person to change my entire would they go out
of their way? And that's kind of that selfless heart
thing that we can still disagree, but we can help
each other out. The mark of a true friend or
a true coworker or whatever it may be. But such
(26:48):
great wisdom and the simple power of an apology. I
think I should put that on like repeat and play it.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
For the rest of the month. It's just good stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Doctor Tanner Smith chief of staff at the Colossian Forum.
I'm going to give the website again. It's Colossionforum dot org.
As you heard Tanner say, there's so many great resources there,
including make sure we'll put the link in our podcast
notes the free download on slowing Down. Tanner, this has
been a real honor and pleasure and I'm so glad
(27:20):
we could make this happen.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
Thank you as well.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
A shout out to Sarah on your team for connecting us.
This is good stuff, Tanner.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Enjoy has been mine. Thanks Phil.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah, good stuff indeed, Reverend doctor Tanner Smith. The group
is the Colossian Forum and they are based here in
West Michigan. So much good information, so much too unpack,
and you can check it out at Colossinforum dot org.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
You've been listening to iHeartRadio's West Michigan Weekend. West Michigan
Weekend is a production of Wood Radio and iHeartRadio
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.