May 18, 2025 • 20 mins
Mikaela speaks with Ann Hurst from Open Arms Counseling!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Ah, it is a Sunday afternoon. It is brilliant outside.
I have not well, at least it was. I don't know.
I can't tell through the window if it still as
sunny as it was. But this is a situation where
I hope you're out. I hope you're enjoying it. And
you know, it is one of those days where it's
(00:22):
the weather has just been so lovely. It's been perfect
for mowing your lawn. It's been perfect for my husband's
pulling weeds right now. So it's it's one of those
moments that I hope you've enjoyed the weekend. I hope
you haven't had too much to do. Next weekend is
Memorial Day weekend, and it's one of those situations where
(00:44):
you know you're going to have an extra day most
likely to do stuff, so enjoy it. We're having great conversations.
We have more to come this hour and we're going
to start off with Open Arms Counseling and our favorite therapist,
Ann Hurst, who is on the phone with us this afternoon,
and we got you. Were you outside doing your thing too?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
No, I was waiting for your guys' call. And it
usually has the station log as the color ID and
this one just came through as being Dublin, Ohio with
a phone number, and I didn't want to answer another
phone call when I was expecting you.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
You're wondering someone from Dublin is calling me at five
oh four? Who is this? I'm gonna just wait. So
thank you for calling us back. I appreciate it. Worry
about Have you been out enjoying any of the beauty
this weekend?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yes, I have. It was really nice. Actually I was
cutting the field, so that was nice cutting the grass.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
This is like the perfect weather right now before we
start to get into the heat of things. And I also,
I know getting out there is really good for our
mental health, right, like fresh air, sunshine, all of that, oh.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Absolutely, fresh air, sunshine and watching nature, the duck ponds
and you know, watching ducks or watching animals doing what
they're thing outside, all of that is really a natural antidepressant.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Why do our brains like that so much?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
I don't know. I think it's the way we're hardwired,
which wonderfully. So.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yeah, so we're you know, inside represents isolation for us
sometimes depending on what we're doing inside, and like getting
out there. I've always heard that grounding is really good.
Like first thing in the morning, if you can like
step in grass or touch some grass. It's a little
woo woo, but I've heard that can be really good
for your brain too.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Oh, it definitely can't. And grounding it doesn't always have
to be grass. It can be your carpeting, it could
be whatever you want. And just pressing down your feet
into the ground and feeling the solid firmness there that
can be very helpful.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Okay, So that's good to know. So grounding doesn't have
to be grass. It can be any surface. It's just
a matter of really pressing down into that surface and
just feeling what's below you. Yes, And what does that
do for our brains?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
It kind of gives us a sense of where we
are in spatially and in time and brings us to
the present moment. A lot of times we live in
the past or the future. We'll think about what's happened
and how you know, kind of brate ourselves or you know,
congratulate ourselves over what happened in the past, or we're
looking forward to the future thinking how am I going
(03:30):
to do this, this and this? And when you do
a grounding, you're able to bring yourself to the present
and enjoy the present moment, which.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
We definitely all don't do enough of, I think in
the culture that we're in right now, so really grounding
can be really, really important. Absolutely, So, there was some
stuff that came out earlier this week and I texted
you and I was like, I think we should talk
about this now. Mindy is not here because she is
in the mountains of Tennessee driving home from the regional group,
(03:59):
so it's just me to but you. Mindy and I
were talking about this over text, and originally I brought
this up because you know, Mindy has a son in
her in his I should say, early twenties, also has Cammi,
who was in her early twenties. I have an almost
fifteen year old and assume to be thirteen year old.
And the New York Times it's interesting, you know, depending
(04:20):
on if you guys follow them don't follow them, sometimes
they can shoot out some interesting stuff. And this this
really caught my attention earlier this week because they've taken
some different data. This author this article was published on
May thirteenth, and they've taken this data and they've written
this article. It's not just a feeling. Data shows boys
(04:42):
and young men are falling behind, and you know, we're
going to talk about it, and so I hope those
of you out there who have young men in your life,
you know, are listening, because the data that is in
this article starts talking about educational achievement, mental health, and
transitions to adulthood indicate that many young males are not thriving.
(05:03):
And so we were texting about this earlier this week.
I found it super interesting. Were you surprised at that headline?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
You know, I found it very interesting. I don't know
if it was surprised, but I found it very interesting.
With the trends of the current day, it does not
surprise me. In fact, the weirdest thing is I turned
on the news this morning and they were doing in
New York City a person on the street interview about
(05:36):
this very topic and asking people what do you think
about it? And I thought that was just very appropriate.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
The people the man on the street interviews they were doing,
were they familiar with this occurrence, if you will, or
were they unfamiliar with it?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
They were asking the people on the street, did you
know that young men young men falling behind? And asking
if they were surprised by that, and the people on
the street were not surprised about it, strangely enough, and
they were talking about some of the reasons they thought
that it was happening. And one of the ones that
(06:14):
I found the most interesting is that they didn't believe
that they were giving young boys or young men a
sense of purpose anymore.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
That is heartbreaking to hear, too heart breaking to hear
that someone would think that some of this data. You know,
it's interesting because you know, there are things that show
small changes, very incremental changes. You know, boys in her
kindergarten behind girls. With some of the information that was
in there. Across the United States, girls scored better on
(06:46):
reading tests than boys. One of the stats though, that
I thought was super interesting had to do with college.
And you know, I'm the first person to say, especially
given the work I do, college is not for everyone, right, Like,
not everybody needs to go to college. There's a lot
of great things that happen with a non higher education
(07:09):
path too, But women are out numbering men in college enrollment.
That this is one of the big ones that I saw.
And male high school graduates about fifty seven percent are
enrolled in college, which is barely up from fifty four
percent in nineteen sixty according to federal data, But in
that same period, women's college enrollment has surged past them.
(07:32):
Sixty six percent of women go to college, up from
thirty eight percent in nineteen sixty. You know, and again
I have a young man at home with it, you know,
are you in your practice? And I know I don't
(07:54):
want to paint with a super broadbrush, but sometimes it
can be harder for males to go to therapy. Are
you seeing some of this reflected, like some of the struggle.
Are you seeing some of that reflected in some of
the conversations you're having at your practice?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah, we actually are. We're seeing a larger number of
men coming in seeking counseling than we used to in
the past, and they're coming in for depression anxiety, social anxiety,
problems with socialization, also trying to figure out life and
(08:32):
what direction to go, change of life transitions, all of
the above, and so much more depression anxiety. And it's
a much higher rate than it used to be back
when I first started back in two thousand and eight.
So yes, we are seeing that a lot, and it's
(08:54):
been interesting. I mean, listening to the men on the street.
I'm taking myself out of it. Some people mentioned that
COVID could have had something to do with it. Others
say that, you know, there's an overarching idea of the
strong female and the weak male, and perhaps boys aren't
(09:14):
given the direction that they used to be given. I
honestly don't know the answer.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Well, I think some boys and I have one at home,
their brains might work differently than a female brain, right,
the way they learn, the way that they engage, and
then you enter into the chat if you will. Right
like the technology. The way that teens have behaved, especially
(09:44):
during COVID post COVID, where they're socializing out of the
phone in their room rather than getting out as much.
That doesn't help matters. I don't think it help matters
for either sex. Actually, like I don't think it helps.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
But and that.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Data also so is not as clear. In terms of
mental health and suicide. There is there is a difference
between males and females, but again it's not as why
does that college one that I talked about. The other
one that was really interesting to me was the young
people in general are taking longer to reach the traditional
milestones of adulthood. It's particularly true of young men. Among
(10:20):
men ages twenty five to thirty four, nineteen percent still
live with their parents, which is up from fourteen percent
in nineteen eighty three. According to this census, women that
age thirteen percent live with their parents, up from eleven percent.
So when you're having these conversations, first of all, I'm
(10:40):
really really encouraged to hear that more men have been
coming in, just like in this case study, if we
will with you, guys to come in and go through therapy.
So I'm very proud of men doing that. That makes
that really is encouraging. What are some of the things
you're suggesting to them tactically? I want to say, is
(11:03):
they're coming in and you don't start out with tactics
with therapy, Folks like stop where you start. So tell
me how you're unpeeling the onion and then handing to
them some tactics that might be helpful. And if that's possible,
it may be a really long road.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I don't know, Well, it depends. It depends on the
person and what they're specifically coming in for and what
they want to achieve. The first thing we do in
counseling is is that that miracle question? If everything was
all right and you no longer needed counseling, what does
your world look like? And then we work on getting
them there for insance. If it's a social anxiety piece,
(11:40):
working on what are the barriers, what's causing the anxiety socially,
and working on overcoming those barriers and getting them back
into a social situation where they feel comfortable with it.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
What's an example of a barrier? Give me just like one.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
One would be that they're not used to being around people,
so they don't know what to do.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
I think I feel that deeply coming from a few
guys I know in my life. They're not used to
being around people, because why are they sitting at home?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Us sitting at home. I think there's a whole number
of layers onto this, because I mean not to sound
like my dad when he used to be why when
I was a boy, but when I was younger, we
would all go outside and we would interact with each other.
We would go out, spend the entire day from sun
up till sundown, coming home just to eat, and then
(12:38):
head back out and we would spend all day socializing
and figuring out how to work with other people, Whereas
I think that a lot of the kids grew up
these days with a screen in front of them, and
so they knew how to text, They know how to
play games, they know how to game online, they know
how to meet friends online gaming with them, but when
(13:00):
you put them face to face, it's not a familiar thing.
And then you add two it COVID, which increased that
one hundredfold, and it makes a social situation where you know,
you've never really experienced the one on one or the
ten on one.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Ten on one. Right, this is a great conversation. Will
you stick around with me for a few minutes to
continue it after the break because I have a couple
more questions to ask you for those who are in
our positions, and I say ours since I have teenage boys,
would you mind sticking around? Sure, not a problem, Okay, great,
you guys. We will continue the conversation with Anne because
there are definitely some more questions out there to ask.
(13:42):
Stick around. We'll be back right after the break. This
is What Matters on six ten WTV in Welcome Back
to What Matters, Continuing the conversation with Anne Hurst with
Open Arms Counseling about boys young men and if they
are falling behind. There's some data that came out in
(14:04):
a New York Times article this past week, pull together
from a few different studies showing things like the labor
force participation has declined for men. While women still learn
less than men, their median weekly earnings of climb nineteen
percent since the year two thousand. Well, men's have just
increased seven percent. If you want to read the article,
you can go find it in the Times. But and
(14:24):
when we left and thank you so much for sticking
around for a few more minutes.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
So when we left off, we were talking about what
this can look like and why it's happening potentially for
some young men, too many some but too many. How
So a couple of foundational questions. If a family is
dealing with this, and you know, therapy obviously very smart move,
but how do families You know, you don't want to
(14:52):
kick them out of your house, right, I mean, that's
the tough love thing to do. I'm not saying I'm
not saying that I'm against it, but you really don't
want to. But at the same time, you want to
encourage them to grow into a person who is motivated
to do more and figure their life out. How do
(15:12):
we how do we make that happen? How do we
balance that? It's a very confusing thing and a hard thing.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
It is a hard thing. And I did want to
pop back to your college question too, And I'm just
going to ask a question here because I know that
college admissions have focused less on bringing in men and
more on bringing in minorities. For instance, and I had
remembered this, there was an Asian team. He had a
(15:41):
four point zero GPA, his SATs were fifteen ninety and
he was rejected by sixteen colleges and he ended up
just going to Google and working because they hired him
straight without college.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
What a story. Yeah, So you're saying that college admissions
may be focusing more on women anecdotally over the years,
and based because I knew minorities in general were focused
for a long time. I didn't know minority men though,
were having a problem. So that's very interesting to hear
on the college front. So maybe there is something with
(16:16):
that with those women, more women being in college. And
again we said earlier college not college. Really, you know,
there are so many opportunities out there you don't have
to go to college for it. But how do you
get these guys to realize this, to get them to
move a different direction or encourage them to step into
whatever that thing is for them if they're really struggling
(16:37):
at home.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
I think one of the first things starts with foundational
upbringing when they're young, just giving them a sense of purpose,
a sense of who they are as a person, and
help them to get their who they are, that sense
of self from within instead of externally, so you know,
teaching them to go and socialize. I saw the best
(17:02):
thing on YouTube the other day. It was a while back,
but a mother was sitting in the parking lot of
a McDonald's and not that McDonald's the best food in
the world, but I all happen to like it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Of course, she.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Had a six year old son and she was trying
to encourage him to do things on his own and
get this sense of self worth. So the thing that
he chose is he wanted to go into McDonald's and
order the food and bring it out himself.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
That's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Sitting in the parking lot stressing out over the fact
that her son was in there ordering the food. I'm
giving it's like, is he okay? And I help him,
but I've got to let him do it. And then
this little boy comes running out with these big bags
of McDonald's, jumps in the truck screaming I.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Did it, I did it.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
It was the sweetest thing I've ever seen.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
That is an awesome video. And I take it. That's
like the example of you got giving your kids purpose.
Looks like letting them go and do things like that,
chores this, giving them a little bit of slack on.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
The rope if you will, absolutely giving them the ability
to succeed. Letting them succeed, and sometimes they're going to
trip and fail, and that's okay because then they can learn.
It's not a failure if you learn from it. And
that's how you give them that sense of I can
do it. I can go out into the world and
(18:26):
do whatever I want to do because I know I can.
I've done it before.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
What if you have someone who's not necessarily six or
nine or eleven, but you have one of those teenagers
or one of those young twenty somethings that haven't gone
out to do it, how do you remedy that and
how long does it take to remedy it.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
It depends on the per person, and you kind of
do go back to basics. You help them going out
into the world, having them do stuff on their own,
having them go to an event and talk to one person.
Just just go and talk to one person, find something
that they like, and send them to some sort of
(19:07):
group that meets about that. There used to be meetups. Yeah, yeah,
finding a meetup group and having them go and do
something and talk to like one person, that's it, and
start them slowly doing things like that and then work
up to you know, you are able to do whatever
(19:30):
you want to do, and you can do it.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
It's possible, and that's I think that's what folks need
to remember. And if someone needs to work through this,
if they're listening, or if they have maybe a teenage
adult child in their lives and needs to talk through this,
how do folks get a hold of you and what
are you all able to do with them?
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Well, just give us a call. It's six one four,
six two, five, seven eighty three, and or go online
to open Arms Counseling. We can sit down, find out
what your goals are and work with you to reach
those goals. It's kind of a partnership. You are an
expert on you and our counselors have learned a lot
(20:14):
of things in school and you put those two things
together and magic happen.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
It truly is when people are invested in the process
and willing to work with a therapist completely the case.
Thank you for sticking around extra time. You always have
such great insight and this was just a really interesting
cultural article moment to discuss. So I appreciate you as
always in Oh, I.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Always appreciate you too, Mikila. Thank you have a great week.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yeah, you do the same. This is what matters on
six ten WTVN
Ah, it is a Sunday afternoon. It is brilliant outside.
I have not well, at least it was. I don't know.
I can't tell through the window if it still as
sunny as it was. But this is a situation where
I hope you're out. I hope you're enjoying it. And
you know, it is one of those days where it's
(00:22):
the weather has just been so lovely. It's been perfect
for mowing your lawn. It's been perfect for my husband's
pulling weeds right now. So it's it's one of those
moments that I hope you've enjoyed the weekend. I hope
you haven't had too much to do. Next weekend is
Memorial Day weekend, and it's one of those situations where
(00:44):
you know you're going to have an extra day most
likely to do stuff, so enjoy it. We're having great conversations.
We have more to come this hour and we're going
to start off with Open Arms Counseling and our favorite therapist,
Ann Hurst, who is on the phone with us this afternoon,
and we got you. Were you outside doing your thing too?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
No, I was waiting for your guys' call. And it
usually has the station log as the color ID and
this one just came through as being Dublin, Ohio with
a phone number, and I didn't want to answer another
phone call when I was expecting you.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
You're wondering someone from Dublin is calling me at five
oh four? Who is this? I'm gonna just wait. So
thank you for calling us back. I appreciate it. Worry
about Have you been out enjoying any of the beauty
this weekend?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yes, I have. It was really nice. Actually I was
cutting the field, so that was nice cutting the grass.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
This is like the perfect weather right now before we
start to get into the heat of things. And I also,
I know getting out there is really good for our
mental health, right, like fresh air, sunshine, all of that, oh.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Absolutely, fresh air, sunshine and watching nature, the duck ponds
and you know, watching ducks or watching animals doing what
they're thing outside, all of that is really a natural antidepressant.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Why do our brains like that so much?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
I don't know. I think it's the way we're hardwired,
which wonderfully. So.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yeah, so we're you know, inside represents isolation for us
sometimes depending on what we're doing inside, and like getting
out there. I've always heard that grounding is really good.
Like first thing in the morning, if you can like
step in grass or touch some grass. It's a little
woo woo, but I've heard that can be really good
for your brain too.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Oh, it definitely can't. And grounding it doesn't always have
to be grass. It can be your carpeting, it could
be whatever you want. And just pressing down your feet
into the ground and feeling the solid firmness there that
can be very helpful.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Okay, So that's good to know. So grounding doesn't have
to be grass. It can be any surface. It's just
a matter of really pressing down into that surface and
just feeling what's below you. Yes, And what does that
do for our brains?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
It kind of gives us a sense of where we
are in spatially and in time and brings us to
the present moment. A lot of times we live in
the past or the future. We'll think about what's happened
and how you know, kind of brate ourselves or you know,
congratulate ourselves over what happened in the past, or we're
looking forward to the future thinking how am I going
(03:30):
to do this, this and this? And when you do
a grounding, you're able to bring yourself to the present
and enjoy the present moment, which.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
We definitely all don't do enough of, I think in
the culture that we're in right now, so really grounding
can be really, really important. Absolutely, So, there was some
stuff that came out earlier this week and I texted
you and I was like, I think we should talk
about this now. Mindy is not here because she is
in the mountains of Tennessee driving home from the regional group,
(03:59):
so it's just me to but you. Mindy and I
were talking about this over text, and originally I brought
this up because you know, Mindy has a son in
her in his I should say, early twenties, also has Cammi,
who was in her early twenties. I have an almost
fifteen year old and assume to be thirteen year old.
And the New York Times it's interesting, you know, depending
(04:20):
on if you guys follow them don't follow them, sometimes
they can shoot out some interesting stuff. And this this
really caught my attention earlier this week because they've taken
some different data. This author this article was published on
May thirteenth, and they've taken this data and they've written
this article. It's not just a feeling. Data shows boys
(04:42):
and young men are falling behind, and you know, we're
going to talk about it, and so I hope those
of you out there who have young men in your life,
you know, are listening, because the data that is in
this article starts talking about educational achievement, mental health, and
transitions to adulthood indicate that many young males are not thriving.
(05:03):
And so we were texting about this earlier this week.
I found it super interesting. Were you surprised at that headline?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
You know, I found it very interesting. I don't know
if it was surprised, but I found it very interesting.
With the trends of the current day, it does not
surprise me. In fact, the weirdest thing is I turned
on the news this morning and they were doing in
New York City a person on the street interview about
(05:36):
this very topic and asking people what do you think
about it? And I thought that was just very appropriate.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
The people the man on the street interviews they were doing,
were they familiar with this occurrence, if you will, or
were they unfamiliar with it?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
They were asking the people on the street, did you
know that young men young men falling behind? And asking
if they were surprised by that, and the people on
the street were not surprised about it, strangely enough, and
they were talking about some of the reasons they thought
that it was happening. And one of the ones that
(06:14):
I found the most interesting is that they didn't believe
that they were giving young boys or young men a
sense of purpose anymore.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
That is heartbreaking to hear, too heart breaking to hear
that someone would think that some of this data. You know,
it's interesting because you know, there are things that show
small changes, very incremental changes. You know, boys in her
kindergarten behind girls. With some of the information that was
in there. Across the United States, girls scored better on
(06:46):
reading tests than boys. One of the stats though, that
I thought was super interesting had to do with college.
And you know, I'm the first person to say, especially
given the work I do, college is not for everyone, right, Like,
not everybody needs to go to college. There's a lot
of great things that happen with a non higher education
(07:09):
path too, But women are out numbering men in college enrollment.
That this is one of the big ones that I saw.
And male high school graduates about fifty seven percent are
enrolled in college, which is barely up from fifty four
percent in nineteen sixty according to federal data, But in
that same period, women's college enrollment has surged past them.
(07:32):
Sixty six percent of women go to college, up from
thirty eight percent in nineteen sixty. You know, and again
I have a young man at home with it, you know,
are you in your practice? And I know I don't
(07:54):
want to paint with a super broadbrush, but sometimes it
can be harder for males to go to therapy. Are
you seeing some of this reflected, like some of the struggle.
Are you seeing some of that reflected in some of
the conversations you're having at your practice?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah, we actually are. We're seeing a larger number of
men coming in seeking counseling than we used to in
the past, and they're coming in for depression anxiety, social anxiety,
problems with socialization, also trying to figure out life and
(08:32):
what direction to go, change of life transitions, all of
the above, and so much more depression anxiety. And it's
a much higher rate than it used to be back
when I first started back in two thousand and eight.
So yes, we are seeing that a lot, and it's
(08:54):
been interesting. I mean, listening to the men on the street.
I'm taking myself out of it. Some people mentioned that
COVID could have had something to do with it. Others
say that, you know, there's an overarching idea of the
strong female and the weak male, and perhaps boys aren't
(09:14):
given the direction that they used to be given. I
honestly don't know the answer.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Well, I think some boys and I have one at home,
their brains might work differently than a female brain, right,
the way they learn, the way that they engage, and
then you enter into the chat if you will. Right
like the technology. The way that teens have behaved, especially
(09:44):
during COVID post COVID, where they're socializing out of the
phone in their room rather than getting out as much.
That doesn't help matters. I don't think it help matters
for either sex. Actually, like I don't think it helps.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
But and that.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Data also so is not as clear. In terms of
mental health and suicide. There is there is a difference
between males and females, but again it's not as why
does that college one that I talked about. The other
one that was really interesting to me was the young
people in general are taking longer to reach the traditional
milestones of adulthood. It's particularly true of young men. Among
(10:20):
men ages twenty five to thirty four, nineteen percent still
live with their parents, which is up from fourteen percent
in nineteen eighty three. According to this census, women that
age thirteen percent live with their parents, up from eleven percent.
So when you're having these conversations, first of all, I'm
(10:40):
really really encouraged to hear that more men have been
coming in, just like in this case study, if we
will with you, guys to come in and go through therapy.
So I'm very proud of men doing that. That makes
that really is encouraging. What are some of the things
you're suggesting to them tactically? I want to say, is
(11:03):
they're coming in and you don't start out with tactics
with therapy, Folks like stop where you start. So tell
me how you're unpeeling the onion and then handing to
them some tactics that might be helpful. And if that's possible,
it may be a really long road.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I don't know, Well, it depends. It depends on the
person and what they're specifically coming in for and what
they want to achieve. The first thing we do in
counseling is is that that miracle question? If everything was
all right and you no longer needed counseling, what does
your world look like? And then we work on getting
them there for insance. If it's a social anxiety piece,
(11:40):
working on what are the barriers, what's causing the anxiety socially,
and working on overcoming those barriers and getting them back
into a social situation where they feel comfortable with it.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
What's an example of a barrier? Give me just like one.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
One would be that they're not used to being around people,
so they don't know what to do.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
I think I feel that deeply coming from a few
guys I know in my life. They're not used to
being around people, because why are they sitting at home?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Us sitting at home. I think there's a whole number
of layers onto this, because I mean not to sound
like my dad when he used to be why when
I was a boy, but when I was younger, we
would all go outside and we would interact with each other.
We would go out, spend the entire day from sun
up till sundown, coming home just to eat, and then
(12:38):
head back out and we would spend all day socializing
and figuring out how to work with other people, Whereas
I think that a lot of the kids grew up
these days with a screen in front of them, and
so they knew how to text, They know how to
play games, they know how to game online, they know
how to meet friends online gaming with them, but when
(13:00):
you put them face to face, it's not a familiar thing.
And then you add two it COVID, which increased that
one hundredfold, and it makes a social situation where you know,
you've never really experienced the one on one or the
ten on one.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Ten on one. Right, this is a great conversation. Will
you stick around with me for a few minutes to
continue it after the break because I have a couple
more questions to ask you for those who are in
our positions, and I say ours since I have teenage boys,
would you mind sticking around? Sure, not a problem, Okay, great,
you guys. We will continue the conversation with Anne because
there are definitely some more questions out there to ask.
(13:42):
Stick around. We'll be back right after the break. This
is What Matters on six ten WTV in Welcome Back
to What Matters, Continuing the conversation with Anne Hurst with
Open Arms Counseling about boys young men and if they
are falling behind. There's some data that came out in
(14:04):
a New York Times article this past week, pull together
from a few different studies showing things like the labor
force participation has declined for men. While women still learn
less than men, their median weekly earnings of climb nineteen
percent since the year two thousand. Well, men's have just
increased seven percent. If you want to read the article,
you can go find it in the Times. But and
(14:24):
when we left and thank you so much for sticking
around for a few more minutes.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
So when we left off, we were talking about what
this can look like and why it's happening potentially for
some young men, too many some but too many. How
So a couple of foundational questions. If a family is
dealing with this, and you know, therapy obviously very smart move,
but how do families You know, you don't want to
(14:52):
kick them out of your house, right, I mean, that's
the tough love thing to do. I'm not saying I'm
not saying that I'm against it, but you really don't
want to. But at the same time, you want to
encourage them to grow into a person who is motivated
to do more and figure their life out. How do
(15:12):
we how do we make that happen? How do we
balance that? It's a very confusing thing and a hard thing.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
It is a hard thing. And I did want to
pop back to your college question too, And I'm just
going to ask a question here because I know that
college admissions have focused less on bringing in men and
more on bringing in minorities. For instance, and I had
remembered this, there was an Asian team. He had a
(15:41):
four point zero GPA, his SATs were fifteen ninety and
he was rejected by sixteen colleges and he ended up
just going to Google and working because they hired him
straight without college.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
What a story. Yeah, So you're saying that college admissions
may be focusing more on women anecdotally over the years,
and based because I knew minorities in general were focused
for a long time. I didn't know minority men though,
were having a problem. So that's very interesting to hear
on the college front. So maybe there is something with
(16:16):
that with those women, more women being in college. And
again we said earlier college not college. Really, you know,
there are so many opportunities out there you don't have
to go to college for it. But how do you
get these guys to realize this, to get them to
move a different direction or encourage them to step into
whatever that thing is for them if they're really struggling
(16:37):
at home.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
I think one of the first things starts with foundational
upbringing when they're young, just giving them a sense of purpose,
a sense of who they are as a person, and
help them to get their who they are, that sense
of self from within instead of externally, so you know,
teaching them to go and socialize. I saw the best
(17:02):
thing on YouTube the other day. It was a while back,
but a mother was sitting in the parking lot of
a McDonald's and not that McDonald's the best food in
the world, but I all happen to like it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Of course, she.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Had a six year old son and she was trying
to encourage him to do things on his own and
get this sense of self worth. So the thing that
he chose is he wanted to go into McDonald's and
order the food and bring it out himself.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
That's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Sitting in the parking lot stressing out over the fact
that her son was in there ordering the food. I'm
giving it's like, is he okay? And I help him,
but I've got to let him do it. And then
this little boy comes running out with these big bags
of McDonald's, jumps in the truck screaming I.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Did it, I did it.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
It was the sweetest thing I've ever seen.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
That is an awesome video. And I take it. That's
like the example of you got giving your kids purpose.
Looks like letting them go and do things like that,
chores this, giving them a little bit of slack on.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
The rope if you will, absolutely giving them the ability
to succeed. Letting them succeed, and sometimes they're going to
trip and fail, and that's okay because then they can learn.
It's not a failure if you learn from it. And
that's how you give them that sense of I can
do it. I can go out into the world and
(18:26):
do whatever I want to do because I know I can.
I've done it before.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
What if you have someone who's not necessarily six or
nine or eleven, but you have one of those teenagers
or one of those young twenty somethings that haven't gone
out to do it, how do you remedy that and
how long does it take to remedy it.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
It depends on the per person, and you kind of
do go back to basics. You help them going out
into the world, having them do stuff on their own,
having them go to an event and talk to one person.
Just just go and talk to one person, find something
that they like, and send them to some sort of
(19:07):
group that meets about that. There used to be meetups. Yeah, yeah,
finding a meetup group and having them go and do
something and talk to like one person, that's it, and
start them slowly doing things like that and then work
up to you know, you are able to do whatever
(19:30):
you want to do, and you can do it.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
It's possible, and that's I think that's what folks need
to remember. And if someone needs to work through this,
if they're listening, or if they have maybe a teenage
adult child in their lives and needs to talk through this,
how do folks get a hold of you and what
are you all able to do with them?
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Well, just give us a call. It's six one four,
six two, five, seven eighty three, and or go online
to open Arms Counseling. We can sit down, find out
what your goals are and work with you to reach
those goals. It's kind of a partnership. You are an
expert on you and our counselors have learned a lot
(20:14):
of things in school and you put those two things
together and magic happen.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
It truly is when people are invested in the process
and willing to work with a therapist completely the case.
Thank you for sticking around extra time. You always have
such great insight and this was just a really interesting
cultural article moment to discuss. So I appreciate you as
always in Oh, I.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Always appreciate you too, Mikila. Thank you have a great week.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yeah, you do the same. This is what matters on
six ten WTVN
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