May 22, 2025 • 39 mins
In this inspiring and deeply personal episode, Cheryl Hickey, the beloved former co-host of Entertainment Tonight Canada, takes us beyond the glitz of red carpets and celebrity interviews to share her remarkable journey from a small town to the national spotlight. With warmth and honesty, Cheryl reflects on the moments that shaped her. She navigated challenges and a health scare, embraced personal transformations, and celebrated the joys and lessons of motherhood. She opens up about life after the spotlight, how she’s redefining success on her terms, and why she’s more excited than ever about what comes next.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Tonight's show is going to start off very different.
I've always wondered what it's like to be in the public eye, a
celebrity. Must be exciting when you're in
studio, and set designers, and wardrobe consultants
and makeup artists and people trying to produce great content and
script fantastic words and every day you're interviewing a
(00:22):
different celebrity. But what
happens when you leave that studio and that spotlight follows
you and those viewers that watch you every night have framed you in a
certain way and almost expect you to be that way every
day? And some are even so grotesque that they
shame you in social media. Well, that's what
(00:44):
I thought the show was gonna be about today. My guest is Cheryl Hickey. For
eighteen years, she was the cohost of Entertainment Tonight Canada.
I started, you know, a single woman on that show. I met my
husband, had both of my kids, learned so much, grew so
much. I thought we're gonna talk about that private and public
life and some of the people that she interviewed, and we we certainly touched on
(01:05):
that. But what you're gonna find in this show was so much more. At the
beginning, it was they wanted me to just with Rick, and I was like,
Cheryl Hickey is a beautiful human being. And I've
always been nervous to step forward myself. I
love a partner, a co host, a cast, but
me, that's what the hardest part about ET Canada was. Just
(01:28):
such gratitude for the small town she's been raised, or the lessons in life from
her parents. She's gonna share with you some powerful lessons in life
for what we're all going through, transitions. Because they have to be.
Because the industries are changing, all industries are changing. And
you've just got to evolve, put your head down, find out what you love to
do, and find a way to make it work. Rugs being pulled from underneath
(01:49):
us. People trying to hold us back. Or passions that we
know we should be chasing, but we don't have the courage to do so. It's
okay to fail. It's okay to start again. It's okay to
try. And I think the most important thing we're gonna learn from Cheryl
is how to listen generously, not just to the people that you're talking
with. Inside, listen to what makes you happy. Listen
(02:12):
to the passions and pursuits you you should be chasing. We're supposed to
create and inspire each other and start again. That's the
point. There's so much to Cheryl Hickey, and I hope you feel after
listening the way I felt after interviewing her.
Hi. It's Tony Chapman. Thank you for listening to Chatter That Matters presented
(02:34):
by RBC. If you can, please subscribe to the podcast.
And ratings and reviews, well, they're always welcome, and they're always appreciated.
Cheryl Hickey, welcome to Chatter That Matters. Hey.
Cheryl Hickey, I always in my mind, you were this
red carpet superstar that that just had Manhattan as
(02:56):
your background, but it it turns out you grew up in Shallow Lake near Owen
Sound. That's a pretty small town. It sure is. And we had one
little convenience store called Ed Allen's Convenience
Store, and they used to sell the best penny candy. What's the values
that you take out of a small town? Because, you know, Hollywood always has this
folklore of the small town, and you just, you know, you go to the big
(03:16):
city, but you never take the small town girl out of it. I think part
of it is an appreciation for connection and an appreciation
for a slower pace. And I think that I've been able
deep inside to hold on to that. There's been times I've
been like, woah, my head is spinning certainly. But I think that
at the core of who I am, I can still, like, mentally go back to
(03:39):
that place and find myself again. That's
something that I am so grateful for. Do you ever feel like a
square peg in a round hole when you're involved in
the dynamics of what's happening that's just busy? You
question even why you left that sort of almost sounds like a
utopia? That's the beauty of this life. Like, evolving
(04:01):
and changing and growing and experiencing different
things is why we're all here. I was blessed enough to have
this really incredible childhood where we played in the back 40,
right, and we just ran around and climbed trees and then rode our bikes on
gravel roads with no helmets. But, you know, like, did all these
things where you you created this sense of
(04:23):
adventure and then my life took me in because I dreamed
a lot. I daydreamed. I envisioned. I played and imagined
of what I could be and who I could be. I had no goalpost,
but no. I don't feel like a round peg in a
square hole because, like, I I know that life is about changing.
One of the things that I read was your I and I love this quote
(04:45):
when your dad said, I think you're age 16, Cheryl, you
talk a lot. Maybe you should volunteer at the local TV station. And
I just cracked up because who would have thought just trying
to quieten you down would suddenly turn into this incredible television career.
So how how did that all come about? Well, my brother and I used to
compete for talking time at the dinner table, and it used to drive my mother
(05:07):
crazy and my sister because my sister's, like, the quieter one. I think I was
just always curious, like, curious about everything. I asked
a million questions. And when my parents would watch Barbara Walters at
night, I'd kinda, like, sneak in and kinda peer and watch. I
remember she bought me this microphone and there was a point in time when I
was like, I'm gonna be like Whitney Houston. But then I turned it and I
(05:28):
was like, okay, well, what else can I do with this? So I would interview
my family and walk around and do that. And so my parents were clever
enough to be like, hey. Let's figure out what this girl is doing naturally
and see if we can push her into a direction that just feels right,
and they did. And I'm very grateful for that. You went to Fanshawe
College studying radio and television arts. Not that I'm dating you, but back
(05:50):
then, radio and television was the place to be. I mean, it was
exciting. And so what did you learn in that school that you
feel was important enough that has stayed with you as you started to
build this illustrious career? Things actually aren't that different. And here's
what I'll say, because I remember back then, our profs and other
people, graduates, saying it is a terrible time to get into this
(06:12):
business. There is no work. Things aren't da da da da. It's this, it's this,
it's this, it's this. And if you listen to it, then you
would never find your way. You'd be like, oh, well, then I guess I better
not do this. And boom. That's the same message broadcast journalism
and radio students are being told today, that there's no room.
When in fact, if you look at it differently, the landscape is
(06:34):
huge and fast and you can create your own channel.
There's so much that you can actually do. Look what you're
doing. It's all in how you look at it. The forms are
changing and evolving, but the opportunity is still there. So I think
back then, I remember hearing that and being like,
no, I really love this. This makes my heart full.
(06:55):
I'm gonna keep going. Definitely feeling like a bit
of an underdog because my profs didn't really take me seriously, some of
them. Some of them did, but some of them didn't. I I just remember just
the grit. The grit was important. Three in the morning, your eyes are bleeding. You're
just like, I'm so tired trying to finish this project. But just
having a resolve and holding onto that. It's a great
(07:17):
insight in terms of friction versus fuel, where so
often today, we just tell people there's so much friction out there that
why bother even trying. And I just love the way you framed it to
say there's always opportunity. I wanna talk to you about your first
entry into the world, the new VR in Barry, and how you didn't
just wait for opportunities. You you decided that you're gonna start creating
(07:40):
them. I started out, I think, as a PA. My gosh. I
remember having so much anxiety around writing Lance Chilton, the news
anchor's tease. Like, I was just frozen. And then quickly, I was like,
okay, well, I don't wanna stay in this position. What else can I do? So
I started shadowing the cameramen and women. One woman,
Audra Brown, she still works at City TV, and she was kind enough, along
(08:01):
with some of the other guides, after my shift was done at 06:00, I would
then go out at night and follow them and kinda learn
about the camera, and then there was a broken down one that they eventually let
me take out alongside of them. So while they were shooting, I was shooting, and
then I would come back at 11:00, stay until, like, three or
four editing my own stuff, just to, like, see if I could get the feel
(08:23):
of a cut, and then eventually, I would shoot my own standup, along the
reporter would go back into the truck and then I'd go and shoot my own
standup, edit myself in, and I would just give those tapes to the news
director. At the time, the news director, I didn't
know, but he would just file them underneath his desk. He wasn't sending
them downtown to City TV, which was where, at the time, all the decisions
(08:44):
were made. And then the creative directors came to me and said,
Listen, we have five minutes in the middle of a soap opera that we have
to fill with an interstitial. Can you create one? And I was like, yes.
And then immediately, it was like, oh, crap. With what? I don't know.
So I decided at the time that I was going to create something in the
middle of a soap opera where people could write in their questions, then I
(09:07):
would contact the PR people down at Days of Our Lives and ask
them the questions that people wanted to know. And then in that five minutes, I
would give them their response. A really nice maintenance guy there in the
building gave me, an old room in the garage and
gave me a can of purple paint and said, have at her, kiddo. If you
can make a set, that it's yours. And I painted this whole room. I
(09:29):
found a ceramic cat in the garage, put it in there as decoration. And
literally a week later, one of the other team
members came up with the name Lather Up with Cheryl Hickey. My dad was so
angry at that. He was like, no one's gonna take you seriously. And I was
like, but it's funny. Anyway, that ended up being the name, and we
went to air. And it was a little something where I ad libbed every day
(09:50):
for five minutes. It's like working a muscle, and it was fantastic.
And then, the news director in in Toronto,
Paul Rogers, heard about me through another cameraman, said I'd like to
come up and take you out for coffee. I I've heard a lot about you.
He offered me a job that a new job where they were creating a
helicopter role for a cameraperson, a reporter, but also a
(10:12):
videographer on the evening shift, and then it kinda took off. It
took off, but you were scared of heights. Oh my gosh. Deathly afraid of
heights. In fact, I tried not to take the job, which is part of
the story. I went back to my news director at the new VR and said,
what can you give me? Long story short, he said, I'll give you one
slot on Sunday nights, but I made you who you are. And
(10:34):
eventually, Lance Chilton, the news the the news anchor there said to me,
if you don't take this job, this'll be the biggest mistake of your life. Like,
you need to lean into the fear. I was I'd never driven in Toronto. I
was definitely afraid of heights. All I knew was a small town.
And then I just remember being like, okay, I'm gonna take it. How
often did you come across people that, as you
(10:56):
succeeded, wanted to take credit, wanted to let you know it was because of them
and not the fact this was Cheryl Hickey at three in the morning painting purple
on the wall and finding ceramic hats? What advice can you give
to others when somebody's trying to jump in on a spotlight that
you've actually lit? The only time that it's really happened in a really big bay
was was was with that previous boss. He really,
(11:18):
I feel, didn't want me to succeed and he didn't really believe in me.
And and when I took the job in Toronto, he told me that
he taught me everything I know and how dare I and actually
yelled at me for, like, forty five minutes. I remember thinking,
this is not how it's supposed to be. You're supposed to be happy for me,
and I've been showing you all of my things trying to get
(11:40):
going here. Yeah. You can't control what other people do, and you
can't control what other people think, but you can control how you act. And so
I try to focus on that. Do you think when you write your
memoirs one day, those times in life where people put up
those obstacles and you found a way around it, you think you're get there'll be
some of the memories you treasure the most. It's also about finding your way
(12:02):
around, above, through, underneath, whatever you needed to do to
kind of turn this obstacle into a stepping stone. They're there
as lessons. We know they are. And sometimes they repeat and
you're like, wait, I've seen this kind of person before, or I've seen this before.
Am I going to act the same way? Or am I going to learn from
the last cycle and act differently and see if this keeps reappearing?
(12:24):
So the call that changed everything was Entertainment
Tonight Canada. You were initially passed over for the role. So
I'd love for you to share how that show came
about because it was a defining moment for you. And I would say that you
helped define Canadian television for eighteen years. So I'd I'd love to hear
the background story. Well, I was working at Global News. I think I went from
(12:46):
a court reporter to I was working a three to
eleven shift. And then I think one day I ended up doing, like, a quirky
story of some sort, and Paul was like, what is
this side of you? And he started to allow me to do
more entertainment and lifestyle stories. When bands would come to town, I would
go down to the then Skydome and do lives and things like that, and that
(13:09):
started to really build. And then I really
realized that, wow, I just I love entertainment. I love making people
smile. I love talking about things that highlight other people,
and it just spoke to me. We got wind that Entertainment Tonight
was I think I went up to Barb Williams' office a year before and said
to her, is there any way I could be a Canadian correspondent for Entertainment
(13:31):
Tonight? And she was like, I don't know. Kinda went
away. It died. Then about a year later, I heard that they were gonna be
doing an entertainment show, so I thought, ah, I need to audition for this. So
then they started bringing people in, Zeb Shalev and whatever, and I asked to go
and do a read. I went and did a read. I did a chemistry read
with some guy. I don't know who he was. And my cubicle
(13:52):
was in the back of the room. And then I continually
saw all these beautiful models and accomplished broadcasters
and some of my friends going by my desk to also go audition for, like,
a couple weeks. And I thought, oh, wow. There's
no way I'm getting this job. Like, these people are way more qualified than
I and, you know, beautiful and stunning and, like, they were looking for
(14:15):
someone to, like, pow pow and hit it, and they said as much.
So I remember one time, I think I went for a
callback and they said, here's the deal. We don't want someone people know, and
we don't want someone blonde haired, blue eyed. And you know and I know it's
a casting thing. Like, they're trying to build a team and so I was like,
okay. Well, there's not much you can do with that. I can't really it's it
(14:36):
is what it is. And I am already known on Global News, so
okay. I was frustrated and sad and
I all the feelings that you feel, but it it stirred something up in me
where I was like, but I know I want more and I know I
wanna change. I did the logical thing that any
broadcaster would do is I booked a trip to Australia to go see a boy.
(14:57):
I was like, you know what? I'm out of here. I need a break. I'm
gone. I know that I'm changing. I know that I'm evolving. I gotta
see. So I come back from this vacation, and I knew that
I I loved Global. It was my home, but I knew I needed
more. So I my plan in my brain was I was gonna start looking at
what else was out there. And I came back, and they said, can we have
(15:18):
a meeting? Literally, I was in this big boardroom. It was Barb Williams, Zeb
Chalev, and they were like, hey. We're gonna do this entertainment
show. We'd like you to be the host with Rick
Campanelli. And by the way, it's called Entertainment Tonight. And I just remember
looking through both of them. What is happening? Like, my whole world
just spun. I didn't think it was me. All of a sudden, the
(15:40):
CBS executives were down, they were building a set, we were practicing and
rehearsing, and then the imposter syndrome
took over and I was panicking. Do they know I don't know how to
host a show? Like, I've never done this before? But I was terrified. I remember
being at our press conference, and my voice was shaking. And
I just I was like, alright. Did they get the right person? Like, are we
(16:04):
okay? But isn't that part of when you stand on a tight rope
so high? I mean, you talk about your fear of heights. This is your emotional
fear of heights. You have no idea how you're gonna get to the other
side. Everybody's believing in you. So they're just like, they're not even
worrying about a safety net. That's the difference between
someone that dreams and like you did as a young kid and someone
(16:26):
that does, is you just have to find your way on that tightrope. I've always
felt comfortable in a team and I find it very hard
to step forward on my own. So I'm evolving right
now in this space because I
am, I'm doing it on my own and that is stepping out
again and it's exciting and it's scary and it's fun and
(16:49):
it's all those things. And if we didn't love what we do so
much, you'd stop. One of the interviews
that you did, this small town girl now out in front, putting a
microphone in front of the Beyonces and the Ryan Reynolds and dozens
of others. And you said that interesting enough, it was your shallow,
late personality that allowed you to connect because you connected
(17:11):
from a sort of a position almost of authenticity as
opposed to being, you know, just fawning over these celebrities.
Tell us a little bit about that because it I think for the average listener,
most people would freeze if they were in front of a celebrity
like a Beyonce. But to me, when I watched you on television, it was just
you ran into an old high school friend. I wish people could see it. Maybe
(17:34):
some people see this in the behind the scenes stuff now. When a celebrity walks
up on a red carpet, you see this moment in their
face. They're scared. They're nervous. They're trying to put themselves
out there and promote whatever they're paid to promote, and they're just people.
Doesn't mean that I don't get excited and a little bit nervous to meet
someone, but that means you care. It means you're still engaged. You're still in
(17:56):
it. But at the end of the day, we're all, we're
all people. We're all from somewhere. We're someone's daughter. You know?
We're someone's best friend. That's what connects us all. And
so if you can find those moments in conversation and get lost in those
moments in conversation, then you're gonna get something real. And
it doesn't happen all the time, but most of the time, if you're really paying
(18:18):
attention and you're a really good listener, when you're interviewing someone,
you get those moments. Barbara Walters. This is someone you must
have watched as a very young child when you're playing with your microphone.
You talk about choosing your moral compass over a sort of gotcha
question. Unpack that. She had a book, I think it was. And
I I remember reading the book and cramming for this interview and just being so
(18:41):
excited. I mean, Barbara Walters, Oprah, those are
your Pinnacles of female journalists. Like the people like that,
that I really admired and watched over the years. So I
had this opportunity to interview her and I was, this is the greatest thing ever.
And in the book, I quoted something that she said, she's
no, I didn't say that. And I remember, you know, picking a moment
(19:04):
of, you're you're a journalist. You're not a fan. So you stick with the plan.
You stick with what you know, and I did. But there's also a way
of doing it with grace and kindness. You don't have to make a big moment
of it. You don't have to expose someone. You can do it in a way
that is respectful and kind. And what ended up
happening after that is I ended up getting a handwritten letter mailed to me
(19:25):
from Barbara Walters talking about how much she enjoyed the interview and how much she
appreciated our time together. It's not bowing down to the moment and
disappearing. It's about leaning into it, but being confident, but
also being courteous and kind. And all of that matters at the end of the
day. It just does. What Entertainment Tonight interview
do you wish you could do over? Oh. I wish
(19:48):
my listeners could see your giggle right now. And there's one and I've
posted this video before, but it was at the Grammys
with Bruno Mars. I'm a huge Bruno Mars fan. Fan. Love him. Love him. Love
him on Saturday Night Live. Like, I just think he's so talented from his dancing
to his songwriting to, like, blah. He gets up to sing a song to me.
When I see your face. And I think my face
(20:11):
had fear, and he just stopped. And he was like, yeah. And I'm done. But
he didn't realize, like, I was so into it, but I think he thought I
wasn't. Anyway, it was like a miscue. It was like an awkward
moment. I forgot I was on TV and just was like, oh.
A chapter in the book that we're gonna write together, I'm not gonna write it,
but I'm gonna get you some of it because I want your book, is the
best interview I ever had. Again, this was before ET
(20:34):
Canada. I had the opportunity to interview the late Quincy
Jones. He's a creator, really. Like he's touched TV, he's
touched music. And there's really, there's very few artists that he didn't
have a hand in creating some of their their music or their
art. You name it. It was so good. So he leaves, my cameraman and I
are like, woah, mind blown. How are we gonna make this a two minute story?
(20:56):
This is crazy. We're packing up. This is not like the four seasons or
something. We get a knock on the door about thirty minutes later, and it's Quincy
Jones. And he's like, this conversation was so much fun.
Can I get a chocolate bar to the menu bar and sit back down?
I said, Yes. And then we put the camera back up, we roll a little
bit more, and he just told stories of his life and it's like,
(21:18):
it was fascinating. I'm so grateful to
people like Oprah Winfrey who just took me up on stage and
said my name in the Cheryl, like the John
Mairs of the world and the Taylor Swifts and
Jan Arden. Like, there's just I've had wonderful
conversations with people. Sidebar. I mean, you know, people might think that the
(21:40):
job is one hour a day. I was in the entertainment tonight. I was on
the show a couple of times. I know how how much it takes to produce
that show. How did you manage to also find time to meet
your husband, get married, have two kids? Like, how do you balance both of
those? Because and it's not that the word compromise or trade
off, but I know how important both are to you. So how
(22:01):
did you find a way to prioritize one over the other at times so
that you could have the best of both worlds? There's no such thing as balance.
I truly believe that. There just isn't. Sometimes this gets more attention, and sometimes this
gets more attention. That said, my kids have always been at the forefront of
my life. But I also should say with a show like Entertainment Tonight,
you just see me out there, but it is an
(22:23):
entire crew working tirelessly. Like, I that's the thing I
always used to say. If you could see our crew, if you could see our
cameraman, if you could see our floor director, Double j, for me to do the
things I do and have the time that I have, it's those people.
I went back to work after four months of having my son, and it was
one of the most difficult things I've ever done. It's one of my biggest
(22:45):
regrets also, but I truthfully, I was afraid of losing
my job. You know, you don't dare take an entire year off.
There were times where I'd be in my dressing room pumping and crying. My
hormones are crazy. I haven't slept in days, and now I've got to put a
dress on and pretend everything's okay and go interview this big celebrity. Like, I
know you're like, woe is me also. But it's a very real
(23:06):
thing whether you're working on an entertainment show live in front of a lot of
people or you're working in an office and you're a mom and you have to
go back. Like, I'm not gonna say that it was easy all the time because
it just wasn't. And that's something that society really has to
come to terms with. The fear of losing your job because you're at home doing
what you wanna do more than anything in the world is take care of your
(23:27):
newborn. I have to believe you must have turned on the television
set to see who was doing your role. And it must have been
really tough on you when you should have been just home celebrating
life. No. I wasn't turning on the role and worried about the person who was
filling in for me because I was also just happy for them.
I think where I struggled the most, and it wasn't with the job,
(23:49):
I knew intrinsically in me that my my kid
needed me. We know the importance of zero to three, that
mom connection. We know how big it is. So I had a lot of
guilt around that and a lot of fear and worry around that. And then
when it came to my job, I just I wanted them to know I was
still as dedicated, but I also did have,
(24:11):
at the time, a boss who was pretty good at making sure that
I still was able to be there for my kids. We also moved to be
closer to the station, my husband and I. So I was five minutes from the
station. I would always whip home and do what I needed to do. So
You know, you talked about in one interview how people would body
shame you for being pregnant. How do you come to terms with that as a
(24:33):
because there's a price that's you paid to be a celebrity. Funny. I don't see
myself as a celebrity. That's the weird part. Sure. To say that sometimes it
doesn't hurt would be a lie. But, also, I always would try to
remember it says more about that person than it does about
me. Because if you're a person who can put that out on social media
and say those things or say that behind someone's back, you've got a lot more
(24:55):
going on than I would care to recognize. But
there were more kind, loving, and supportive comments.
So it's kind of like, you get more of what you pay attention to,
right? Wherever you put your attention is what you get more of. So I just,
a lot of the time, just wouldn't give it energy, I wouldn't give it, didn't
give it air. And also my body was evolving. Me as a person
(25:17):
was evolving, and that's okay.
When we return, Cheryl Hickey's career and life is firing on
all cylinders. But one afternoon when she's swimming with her
kids, suddenly her heart fires out of control.
How does someone that wants it all and has it all deal with the reality
(25:37):
of it's not always your choice?
Hi. It's Tony Chapman, host of Chatter That Matters. Great leadership
is where we make things happen versus just simply watch and wonder what
happened. And a big shout out to RBC for investing their
intellectual and financial capital to help lead the way so
(26:01):
Canadians can thrive and our communities prosper. Olympics, the arts,
youth, climate change, and much more, leadership matters to RBC.
Even now, it's like, no, I have to step forward myself. And that's my
biggest challenge right now. That's terrifying to me. So I've
(26:21):
been in a group or in a co host position for so long.
I don't even know how to step out on my own. And so that's my
lesson right now. You know, that's my growth. Joining me today is
Cheryl Hickey. For eighteen years, she graced your silver screen as the
host of Entertainment Tonight Canada. What I thought was gonna be a
show about interviews and celebrity, well,
(26:43):
I'm celebrating because this show is about life and transitions
and dreaming and doing.
2018, I believe, you had a a serious health
crisis. 2018, it was September. It was film festival,
which everybody who knows entertainment and knows, you
know, the scene sort of in Toronto. Time of year is really busy. It's
(27:05):
back to school. It's Toronto International Film Festival. It's all
of it. So those are days where you're working around the clock. You're
going. I actually got shingles right before film
festival on my back. I remember telling my boss, this happened.
She's like, we need you. You go on this medication
and you do what you need to do and you get going, as any
(27:28):
anybody does. Right? Like, we've all pushed ourselves and you just keep
going. So I did. Kept going, go, go, go, go, go, go,
go. It was the end of film festival. I was out in the back with
the kids. I was actually swimming with the kids, and I remember feeling my
arms being really heavy and my whole body being really heavy.
Made my way to the shallow end, and I stood up, and, again,
(27:50):
my body just like, it wasn't operating properly. And I screamed at the kids to
get out of the pool, and I knocked on the window to my husband, and
I was like, something's wrong. And my heart rate started to really go
up. And I went into the bedroom, immediately changed, put
some clothes on, and I went to the front of the house
oddly. And I remember my kids sitting in the bay window,
(28:12):
and I said to my husband, go get our neighbor who's a who's a nurse,
an ER nurse or a nurse. She came over and she's like, gas,
something's wrong. We're gonna need to call an ambulance. I was going into
AFib, that's atrial fibrillation, where your heart rate goes up really, really
high. So the ambulance comes. I remember being on the stretcher
and watching my kids' faces, and that's something that just horrifies
(28:34):
me. Anyway, went to the hospital. They tried to do all these things to get
my heart rate to go down. It wouldn't. There was medication. There was
these physical movements they tried to do. Nothing was working.
So then they said, you know, we're gonna need to cardiovert
you, which is they put you to sleep and they stock your heart back
into into rhythm. So my husband signed some documents, I
(28:56):
signed some documents, and the next thing I know, I was asleep and then
awake, and there were, like, nine doctors all around. It turns
out in the end, stress can do some pretty wild things to
the body. Not that I'm blaming myself, but I wasn't listening to
my own cues, and I wasn't taking care of myself the way I needed to
take care of myself, And I didn't have any boundaries and, and, and, and,
(29:18):
and, and, and, and, and I pushed it too far. For
me, it was the most incredible awakening.
It was also a big awareness because after the event you would think, well,
that's the end of that. And it wasn't because so much more
happened after that. I started to have a little, my anxiety kicked up
again. I was really nervous to be alone. I was afraid to fly. I was
(29:40):
afraid to drive. It was what if this happens again? So then I had
to go through this whole layer of it was like a mental
rebirth of trusting my body again. And all that was going
on while I was on ABC Canada. I remember having panic
attacks while hosting the show. One person you credit a lot
in terms of dealing with a lot of these anxieties and your ability to
(30:03):
cope is your mom, mind over matter. Tell me a little bit about your
mom. My mom immigrated here when she was five years old with a
trunk. Her family came here from England.
They worked the farms. They lived in the top of barns. Her
always looking for the silver lining ever since she was little has
been something that I just admire so much. And
(30:25):
even when I was a teenager, I can remember her talking about mindfulness.
Remember back in the day when Oprah at 04:30 would always bring on these
mindful like, she brought mindfulness to the masses. She really did. So back
in that time, time, my mom and I sat down and we watched The Secret
and we would talk about, you know, how to frame your mind to do all
those things. She's really helped me in so many
(30:47):
ways when things are rough, when she's experienced rough
times on how to find the right
path. She's just my little light. I adore her. And at
2023, a tough year. I mean, the end of ET Canada
and the loss of your dad, two things to come at you at one time.
But let's talk about your dad because he was
(31:09):
one of the rocks of your life. Yeah. He really was and
is still. I talk to him every day. Yeah. I
mean, he had a really rare brain disease called progressive supranuclear palsy.
And if you knew my dad, he was just like a strong,
silent type of guy. And so as this disease sort of crept in, we
all knew something was wrong, but we couldn't quite put our finger on it. And
(31:32):
in 2023, he I don't wanna say lost his
battle, but he went to a better place. I truly believe that because he
was not living the life that he deserved to live for sure.
But he was a fighter. I mean, he had COVID twice during COVID. I
mean, he did the best. He fought the hardest he could to be around for
us. And in the end, losing him was,
(31:55):
I don't know, a parent is it's that stable ground, you
know? And so when he left, it was really
difficult. And again, another time where you
have to get up on that stage again. And in many
ways, being back on the stage that January
gave me a piece because it's weird when you go on stage and you do
(32:17):
things, you can flip a switch after a while and you can just
go. It also gives you a place of peace where you're
not sitting in your feelings all the time. Since it's, you know, it's interesting you
say that because a lot of people will find a way to mask that with
alcohol or substance abuses. And it's great that you had something where you could
flip the switch and remind you that life still goes on,
(32:39):
that you have that responsibility. I wanted my kids to see. It was
really important for me to show the kids, obviously,
grief and how to feel it because it's important to feel the grief and feel
the sadness, but also to appreciate this life that we have and that
you need to live it and you need to live it for the people that
you're with and honor the life that you're given. And
(33:00):
I had this beautiful life with my family, this incredible
career that had given me so much, that show. And so
getting back at it was really important. Wasn't easy all the
time, but it was really important to get back at it. And then
the show ended that September. I
thought it was probably gonna be one of the most devastating things to you
(33:22):
personally, but you said, in fact, if anything, it was a relief that this is
I should have made that decision maybe a few years earlier,
found a new tight rope to go on. And they they took the tight rope
away and I was okay. There were so many people who loved that show
and so many people who worked on the show that loved that show.
So was I sad that the show itself was ending?
(33:44):
Absolutely. It was a show that I think Canada still needed.
You know, talking I mean, Etalk's doing a fantastic job,
but I also think competition is good, and I think it's really important to
the landscape. So seeing the show end was I was sad for that
for Canada. But I have to say, as a person, as a
professional, I also knew that in my soul, I
(34:07):
wanted more. I wanted to talk about more things. I would go on the morning
show with Carolyn and Jeff. And I was like, that's sort of like,
like stirring something up in me. Like, this is exciting,
talking about other things that have to do that are outside of entertainment.
I still love talking about entertainment. I love talking to celebrities, doing all of
that. But also there was more. I could feel that I wanted
(34:29):
more. Let's sort of wrap the interview up, talking a little
bit about more out there. And I know that you're working on some stuff we
can't discuss yet today, but you had your stint in
hosting a show. You've got work ethic. You've got
personality. You've got presence. And more importantly,
you've got this incredible appetite for humanity.
(34:51):
So but is that the tease that we can get going forward
that we're gonna see more of Cheryl in the future? Listen, I have an incredible
appreciation and and gratitude towards global television for just sort
of the bedrock and the foundation and the growth and the people
that I had there. It was amazing. It was a fantastic time. And then
even the time I spent at Rogers, albeit it was really short, I had a
(35:14):
lot of fun there and I met a lot of really great people and some
really great things happened there. And actually told me and
reminding me of how much I love creating. And I
still love this business very much. And there are different platforms and
different ways to sort of scratch that itch, if you
will. I do love talking about the humanity and I do love
(35:34):
talking to people and bringing comfort. What I want
people to, who anyone who's listening to this, is to understand
that it's okay to transition, it's okay to
grow, allow it to be exciting, allow it to be
a little bit scary, but also look back on
all the successes or all the lessons that you've had and know that those are
(35:56):
stepping stones to where you're going next. And I have
some exciting things coming up and I'm excited for those things.
Now, Cheryl, I always end my podcast with my three takeaways and you used
the word in the last sentence that to me roared through the entire episode
and it's gratitude. You're so grateful to the small
town. You're so grateful to your parents, your husband, your
(36:18):
kids, the people that employed you, the people that believed in
you. And I think one of the great lessons in life, as big as you
might get in life, this day you forget about the people, the Yodas in the
world that helped you get to where you needed one, is a day that you
lose everything. The second one is this concept to speak to me. And there's two
ways I came through. The first was finding the things that speak to
(36:39):
you that you're passionate about, which I loved. I also love the way
you you sort of use it in a different way. So when people are
speaking at you, there's gonna be negative and positive. Choose what you wanna
listen to. Focus on the positive and you can grow from it.
Focus on what people are speaking in the negative and you're gonna succumb to it.
And I think that's a great lesson in life. And I realized this when my
(37:00):
dad passed, actually. This was my lesson. Obviously it
left a big hole, but I was like, I have a choice in how I'm
going to react to his death. Either I can let it shut me
down and do all the things, or I
can find the beauty and the grace.
I get to choose how I react here and how I'm moving forward.
(37:22):
We always have a choice, even in the most disastrous of
things, there is a choice. It could be a small choice, it could be a
big choice, but when you make one choice it leads to the next choice, and
the next choice, and the next choice. And that's what it is all about.
And your energy, you gotta follow your energy and where you wanna go, not what's
already happened. If something hurts, why are you reliving it? Why are you looking at
(37:44):
it again? It's over there. Where are you going? The final
lesson, this combination of friction and fuel that there's we're always gonna
face circumstances. And what I loved about the way you
overcame them, whether that was somebody that wanted to hold you back
or something you went after, is how hard you work. You
shadowed. I was up to three in the morning. I tried to edit to see
(38:06):
if I could cut a story. I painted the office purple. I
found this cat in the garbage, you know. For people listening, you know,
today, I think a lot of times life is easy. You now with AI, you
just say what you want, the video appears. The difference is
you had that ten thousand hours of practice. You went in there and you
said, no matter what it takes, and it wasn't to brag, it was
(38:28):
this is just what it took for me to chase my dreams. I
went into this just interested about your career. I'm walking
away from this interview. Absolutely. You've gotta become a keynote
speaker. Cheryl, I've hosted conferences for the last
fifteen years all over the world. Your message, whether it's a
fireside chat or a lot just out there telling your
(38:50):
story is what the audiences today need to hear because right
now we are succumbing to this overpowering negativity
out there and with it, then the world's impossible. And it's not It's
odd. The reality is if you focus on the positive, things have become
possible. I'd open to trying that.
Once again, a special thanks to RBC for supporting Chatter That Matters.
(39:14):
It's Tony Chapman. Thanks for listening, and let's chat soon.
Tonight's show is going to start off very different.
I've always wondered what it's like to be in the public eye, a
celebrity. Must be exciting when you're in
studio, and set designers, and wardrobe consultants
and makeup artists and people trying to produce great content and
script fantastic words and every day you're interviewing a
(00:22):
different celebrity. But what
happens when you leave that studio and that spotlight follows
you and those viewers that watch you every night have framed you in a
certain way and almost expect you to be that way every
day? And some are even so grotesque that they
shame you in social media. Well, that's what
(00:44):
I thought the show was gonna be about today. My guest is Cheryl Hickey. For
eighteen years, she was the cohost of Entertainment Tonight Canada.
I started, you know, a single woman on that show. I met my
husband, had both of my kids, learned so much, grew so
much. I thought we're gonna talk about that private and public
life and some of the people that she interviewed, and we we certainly touched on
(01:05):
that. But what you're gonna find in this show was so much more. At the
beginning, it was they wanted me to just with Rick, and I was like,
Cheryl Hickey is a beautiful human being. And I've
always been nervous to step forward myself. I
love a partner, a co host, a cast, but
me, that's what the hardest part about ET Canada was. Just
(01:28):
such gratitude for the small town she's been raised, or the lessons in life from
her parents. She's gonna share with you some powerful lessons in life
for what we're all going through, transitions. Because they have to be.
Because the industries are changing, all industries are changing. And
you've just got to evolve, put your head down, find out what you love to
do, and find a way to make it work. Rugs being pulled from underneath
(01:49):
us. People trying to hold us back. Or passions that we
know we should be chasing, but we don't have the courage to do so. It's
okay to fail. It's okay to start again. It's okay to
try. And I think the most important thing we're gonna learn from Cheryl
is how to listen generously, not just to the people that you're talking
with. Inside, listen to what makes you happy. Listen
(02:12):
to the passions and pursuits you you should be chasing. We're supposed to
create and inspire each other and start again. That's the
point. There's so much to Cheryl Hickey, and I hope you feel after
listening the way I felt after interviewing her.
Hi. It's Tony Chapman. Thank you for listening to Chatter That Matters presented
(02:34):
by RBC. If you can, please subscribe to the podcast.
And ratings and reviews, well, they're always welcome, and they're always appreciated.
Cheryl Hickey, welcome to Chatter That Matters. Hey.
Cheryl Hickey, I always in my mind, you were this
red carpet superstar that that just had Manhattan as
(02:56):
your background, but it it turns out you grew up in Shallow Lake near Owen
Sound. That's a pretty small town. It sure is. And we had one
little convenience store called Ed Allen's Convenience
Store, and they used to sell the best penny candy. What's the values
that you take out of a small town? Because, you know, Hollywood always has this
folklore of the small town, and you just, you know, you go to the big
(03:16):
city, but you never take the small town girl out of it. I think part
of it is an appreciation for connection and an appreciation
for a slower pace. And I think that I've been able
deep inside to hold on to that. There's been times I've
been like, woah, my head is spinning certainly. But I think that
at the core of who I am, I can still, like, mentally go back to
(03:39):
that place and find myself again. That's
something that I am so grateful for. Do you ever feel like a
square peg in a round hole when you're involved in
the dynamics of what's happening that's just busy? You
question even why you left that sort of almost sounds like a
utopia? That's the beauty of this life. Like, evolving
(04:01):
and changing and growing and experiencing different
things is why we're all here. I was blessed enough to have
this really incredible childhood where we played in the back 40,
right, and we just ran around and climbed trees and then rode our bikes on
gravel roads with no helmets. But, you know, like, did all these
things where you you created this sense of
(04:23):
adventure and then my life took me in because I dreamed
a lot. I daydreamed. I envisioned. I played and imagined
of what I could be and who I could be. I had no goalpost,
but no. I don't feel like a round peg in a
square hole because, like, I I know that life is about changing.
One of the things that I read was your I and I love this quote
(04:45):
when your dad said, I think you're age 16, Cheryl, you
talk a lot. Maybe you should volunteer at the local TV station. And
I just cracked up because who would have thought just trying
to quieten you down would suddenly turn into this incredible television career.
So how how did that all come about? Well, my brother and I used to
compete for talking time at the dinner table, and it used to drive my mother
(05:07):
crazy and my sister because my sister's, like, the quieter one. I think I was
just always curious, like, curious about everything. I asked
a million questions. And when my parents would watch Barbara Walters at
night, I'd kinda, like, sneak in and kinda peer and watch. I
remember she bought me this microphone and there was a point in time when I
was like, I'm gonna be like Whitney Houston. But then I turned it and I
(05:28):
was like, okay, well, what else can I do with this? So I would interview
my family and walk around and do that. And so my parents were clever
enough to be like, hey. Let's figure out what this girl is doing naturally
and see if we can push her into a direction that just feels right,
and they did. And I'm very grateful for that. You went to Fanshawe
College studying radio and television arts. Not that I'm dating you, but back
(05:50):
then, radio and television was the place to be. I mean, it was
exciting. And so what did you learn in that school that you
feel was important enough that has stayed with you as you started to
build this illustrious career? Things actually aren't that different. And here's
what I'll say, because I remember back then, our profs and other
people, graduates, saying it is a terrible time to get into this
(06:12):
business. There is no work. Things aren't da da da da. It's this, it's this,
it's this, it's this. And if you listen to it, then you
would never find your way. You'd be like, oh, well, then I guess I better
not do this. And boom. That's the same message broadcast journalism
and radio students are being told today, that there's no room.
When in fact, if you look at it differently, the landscape is
(06:34):
huge and fast and you can create your own channel.
There's so much that you can actually do. Look what you're
doing. It's all in how you look at it. The forms are
changing and evolving, but the opportunity is still there. So I think
back then, I remember hearing that and being like,
no, I really love this. This makes my heart full.
(06:55):
I'm gonna keep going. Definitely feeling like a bit
of an underdog because my profs didn't really take me seriously, some of
them. Some of them did, but some of them didn't. I I just remember just
the grit. The grit was important. Three in the morning, your eyes are bleeding. You're
just like, I'm so tired trying to finish this project. But just
having a resolve and holding onto that. It's a great
(07:17):
insight in terms of friction versus fuel, where so
often today, we just tell people there's so much friction out there that
why bother even trying. And I just love the way you framed it to
say there's always opportunity. I wanna talk to you about your first
entry into the world, the new VR in Barry, and how you didn't
just wait for opportunities. You you decided that you're gonna start creating
(07:40):
them. I started out, I think, as a PA. My gosh. I
remember having so much anxiety around writing Lance Chilton, the news
anchor's tease. Like, I was just frozen. And then quickly, I was like,
okay, well, I don't wanna stay in this position. What else can I do? So
I started shadowing the cameramen and women. One woman,
Audra Brown, she still works at City TV, and she was kind enough, along
(08:01):
with some of the other guides, after my shift was done at 06:00, I would
then go out at night and follow them and kinda learn
about the camera, and then there was a broken down one that they eventually let
me take out alongside of them. So while they were shooting, I was shooting, and
then I would come back at 11:00, stay until, like, three or
four editing my own stuff, just to, like, see if I could get the feel
(08:23):
of a cut, and then eventually, I would shoot my own standup, along the
reporter would go back into the truck and then I'd go and shoot my own
standup, edit myself in, and I would just give those tapes to the news
director. At the time, the news director, I didn't
know, but he would just file them underneath his desk. He wasn't sending
them downtown to City TV, which was where, at the time, all the decisions
(08:44):
were made. And then the creative directors came to me and said,
Listen, we have five minutes in the middle of a soap opera that we have
to fill with an interstitial. Can you create one? And I was like, yes.
And then immediately, it was like, oh, crap. With what? I don't know.
So I decided at the time that I was going to create something in the
middle of a soap opera where people could write in their questions, then I
(09:07):
would contact the PR people down at Days of Our Lives and ask
them the questions that people wanted to know. And then in that five minutes, I
would give them their response. A really nice maintenance guy there in the
building gave me, an old room in the garage and
gave me a can of purple paint and said, have at her, kiddo. If you
can make a set, that it's yours. And I painted this whole room. I
(09:29):
found a ceramic cat in the garage, put it in there as decoration. And
literally a week later, one of the other team
members came up with the name Lather Up with Cheryl Hickey. My dad was so
angry at that. He was like, no one's gonna take you seriously. And I was
like, but it's funny. Anyway, that ended up being the name, and we
went to air. And it was a little something where I ad libbed every day
(09:50):
for five minutes. It's like working a muscle, and it was fantastic.
And then, the news director in in Toronto,
Paul Rogers, heard about me through another cameraman, said I'd like to
come up and take you out for coffee. I I've heard a lot about you.
He offered me a job that a new job where they were creating a
helicopter role for a cameraperson, a reporter, but also a
(10:12):
videographer on the evening shift, and then it kinda took off. It
took off, but you were scared of heights. Oh my gosh. Deathly afraid of
heights. In fact, I tried not to take the job, which is part of
the story. I went back to my news director at the new VR and said,
what can you give me? Long story short, he said, I'll give you one
slot on Sunday nights, but I made you who you are. And
(10:34):
eventually, Lance Chilton, the news the the news anchor there said to me,
if you don't take this job, this'll be the biggest mistake of your life. Like,
you need to lean into the fear. I was I'd never driven in Toronto. I
was definitely afraid of heights. All I knew was a small town.
And then I just remember being like, okay, I'm gonna take it. How
often did you come across people that, as you
(10:56):
succeeded, wanted to take credit, wanted to let you know it was because of them
and not the fact this was Cheryl Hickey at three in the morning painting purple
on the wall and finding ceramic hats? What advice can you give
to others when somebody's trying to jump in on a spotlight that
you've actually lit? The only time that it's really happened in a really big bay
was was was with that previous boss. He really,
(11:18):
I feel, didn't want me to succeed and he didn't really believe in me.
And and when I took the job in Toronto, he told me that
he taught me everything I know and how dare I and actually
yelled at me for, like, forty five minutes. I remember thinking,
this is not how it's supposed to be. You're supposed to be happy for me,
and I've been showing you all of my things trying to get
(11:40):
going here. Yeah. You can't control what other people do, and you
can't control what other people think, but you can control how you act. And so
I try to focus on that. Do you think when you write your
memoirs one day, those times in life where people put up
those obstacles and you found a way around it, you think you're get there'll be
some of the memories you treasure the most. It's also about finding your way
(12:02):
around, above, through, underneath, whatever you needed to do to
kind of turn this obstacle into a stepping stone. They're there
as lessons. We know they are. And sometimes they repeat and
you're like, wait, I've seen this kind of person before, or I've seen this before.
Am I going to act the same way? Or am I going to learn from
the last cycle and act differently and see if this keeps reappearing?
(12:24):
So the call that changed everything was Entertainment
Tonight Canada. You were initially passed over for the role. So
I'd love for you to share how that show came
about because it was a defining moment for you. And I would say that you
helped define Canadian television for eighteen years. So I'd I'd love to hear
the background story. Well, I was working at Global News. I think I went from
(12:46):
a court reporter to I was working a three to
eleven shift. And then I think one day I ended up doing, like, a quirky
story of some sort, and Paul was like, what is
this side of you? And he started to allow me to do
more entertainment and lifestyle stories. When bands would come to town, I would
go down to the then Skydome and do lives and things like that, and that
(13:09):
started to really build. And then I really
realized that, wow, I just I love entertainment. I love making people
smile. I love talking about things that highlight other people,
and it just spoke to me. We got wind that Entertainment Tonight
was I think I went up to Barb Williams' office a year before and said
to her, is there any way I could be a Canadian correspondent for Entertainment
(13:31):
Tonight? And she was like, I don't know. Kinda went
away. It died. Then about a year later, I heard that they were gonna be
doing an entertainment show, so I thought, ah, I need to audition for this. So
then they started bringing people in, Zeb Shalev and whatever, and I asked to go
and do a read. I went and did a read. I did a chemistry read
with some guy. I don't know who he was. And my cubicle
(13:52):
was in the back of the room. And then I continually
saw all these beautiful models and accomplished broadcasters
and some of my friends going by my desk to also go audition for, like,
a couple weeks. And I thought, oh, wow. There's
no way I'm getting this job. Like, these people are way more qualified than
I and, you know, beautiful and stunning and, like, they were looking for
(14:15):
someone to, like, pow pow and hit it, and they said as much.
So I remember one time, I think I went for a
callback and they said, here's the deal. We don't want someone people know, and
we don't want someone blonde haired, blue eyed. And you know and I know it's
a casting thing. Like, they're trying to build a team and so I was like,
okay. Well, there's not much you can do with that. I can't really it's it
(14:36):
is what it is. And I am already known on Global News, so
okay. I was frustrated and sad and
I all the feelings that you feel, but it it stirred something up in me
where I was like, but I know I want more and I know I
wanna change. I did the logical thing that any
broadcaster would do is I booked a trip to Australia to go see a boy.
(14:57):
I was like, you know what? I'm out of here. I need a break. I'm
gone. I know that I'm changing. I know that I'm evolving. I gotta
see. So I come back from this vacation, and I knew that
I I loved Global. It was my home, but I knew I needed
more. So I my plan in my brain was I was gonna start looking at
what else was out there. And I came back, and they said, can we have
(15:18):
a meeting? Literally, I was in this big boardroom. It was Barb Williams, Zeb
Chalev, and they were like, hey. We're gonna do this entertainment
show. We'd like you to be the host with Rick
Campanelli. And by the way, it's called Entertainment Tonight. And I just remember
looking through both of them. What is happening? Like, my whole world
just spun. I didn't think it was me. All of a sudden, the
(15:40):
CBS executives were down, they were building a set, we were practicing and
rehearsing, and then the imposter syndrome
took over and I was panicking. Do they know I don't know how to
host a show? Like, I've never done this before? But I was terrified. I remember
being at our press conference, and my voice was shaking. And
I just I was like, alright. Did they get the right person? Like, are we
(16:04):
okay? But isn't that part of when you stand on a tight rope
so high? I mean, you talk about your fear of heights. This is your emotional
fear of heights. You have no idea how you're gonna get to the other
side. Everybody's believing in you. So they're just like, they're not even
worrying about a safety net. That's the difference between
someone that dreams and like you did as a young kid and someone
(16:26):
that does, is you just have to find your way on that tightrope. I've always
felt comfortable in a team and I find it very hard
to step forward on my own. So I'm evolving right
now in this space because I
am, I'm doing it on my own and that is stepping out
again and it's exciting and it's scary and it's fun and
(16:49):
it's all those things. And if we didn't love what we do so
much, you'd stop. One of the interviews
that you did, this small town girl now out in front, putting a
microphone in front of the Beyonces and the Ryan Reynolds and dozens
of others. And you said that interesting enough, it was your shallow,
late personality that allowed you to connect because you connected
(17:11):
from a sort of a position almost of authenticity as
opposed to being, you know, just fawning over these celebrities.
Tell us a little bit about that because it I think for the average listener,
most people would freeze if they were in front of a celebrity
like a Beyonce. But to me, when I watched you on television, it was just
you ran into an old high school friend. I wish people could see it. Maybe
(17:34):
some people see this in the behind the scenes stuff now. When a celebrity walks
up on a red carpet, you see this moment in their
face. They're scared. They're nervous. They're trying to put themselves
out there and promote whatever they're paid to promote, and they're just people.
Doesn't mean that I don't get excited and a little bit nervous to meet
someone, but that means you care. It means you're still engaged. You're still in
(17:56):
it. But at the end of the day, we're all, we're
all people. We're all from somewhere. We're someone's daughter. You know?
We're someone's best friend. That's what connects us all. And
so if you can find those moments in conversation and get lost in those
moments in conversation, then you're gonna get something real. And
it doesn't happen all the time, but most of the time, if you're really paying
(18:18):
attention and you're a really good listener, when you're interviewing someone,
you get those moments. Barbara Walters. This is someone you must
have watched as a very young child when you're playing with your microphone.
You talk about choosing your moral compass over a sort of gotcha
question. Unpack that. She had a book, I think it was. And
I I remember reading the book and cramming for this interview and just being so
(18:41):
excited. I mean, Barbara Walters, Oprah, those are
your Pinnacles of female journalists. Like the people like that,
that I really admired and watched over the years. So I
had this opportunity to interview her and I was, this is the greatest thing ever.
And in the book, I quoted something that she said, she's
no, I didn't say that. And I remember, you know, picking a moment
(19:04):
of, you're you're a journalist. You're not a fan. So you stick with the plan.
You stick with what you know, and I did. But there's also a way
of doing it with grace and kindness. You don't have to make a big moment
of it. You don't have to expose someone. You can do it in a way
that is respectful and kind. And what ended up
happening after that is I ended up getting a handwritten letter mailed to me
(19:25):
from Barbara Walters talking about how much she enjoyed the interview and how much she
appreciated our time together. It's not bowing down to the moment and
disappearing. It's about leaning into it, but being confident, but
also being courteous and kind. And all of that matters at the end of the
day. It just does. What Entertainment Tonight interview
do you wish you could do over? Oh. I wish
(19:48):
my listeners could see your giggle right now. And there's one and I've
posted this video before, but it was at the Grammys
with Bruno Mars. I'm a huge Bruno Mars fan. Fan. Love him. Love him. Love
him on Saturday Night Live. Like, I just think he's so talented from his dancing
to his songwriting to, like, blah. He gets up to sing a song to me.
When I see your face. And I think my face
(20:11):
had fear, and he just stopped. And he was like, yeah. And I'm done. But
he didn't realize, like, I was so into it, but I think he thought I
wasn't. Anyway, it was like a miscue. It was like an awkward
moment. I forgot I was on TV and just was like, oh.
A chapter in the book that we're gonna write together, I'm not gonna write it,
but I'm gonna get you some of it because I want your book, is the
best interview I ever had. Again, this was before ET
(20:34):
Canada. I had the opportunity to interview the late Quincy
Jones. He's a creator, really. Like he's touched TV, he's
touched music. And there's really, there's very few artists that he didn't
have a hand in creating some of their their music or their
art. You name it. It was so good. So he leaves, my cameraman and I
are like, woah, mind blown. How are we gonna make this a two minute story?
(20:56):
This is crazy. We're packing up. This is not like the four seasons or
something. We get a knock on the door about thirty minutes later, and it's Quincy
Jones. And he's like, this conversation was so much fun.
Can I get a chocolate bar to the menu bar and sit back down?
I said, Yes. And then we put the camera back up, we roll a little
bit more, and he just told stories of his life and it's like,
(21:18):
it was fascinating. I'm so grateful to
people like Oprah Winfrey who just took me up on stage and
said my name in the Cheryl, like the John
Mairs of the world and the Taylor Swifts and
Jan Arden. Like, there's just I've had wonderful
conversations with people. Sidebar. I mean, you know, people might think that the
(21:40):
job is one hour a day. I was in the entertainment tonight. I was on
the show a couple of times. I know how how much it takes to produce
that show. How did you manage to also find time to meet
your husband, get married, have two kids? Like, how do you balance both of
those? Because and it's not that the word compromise or trade
off, but I know how important both are to you. So how
(22:01):
did you find a way to prioritize one over the other at times so
that you could have the best of both worlds? There's no such thing as balance.
I truly believe that. There just isn't. Sometimes this gets more attention, and sometimes this
gets more attention. That said, my kids have always been at the forefront of
my life. But I also should say with a show like Entertainment Tonight,
you just see me out there, but it is an
(22:23):
entire crew working tirelessly. Like, I that's the thing I
always used to say. If you could see our crew, if you could see our
cameraman, if you could see our floor director, Double j, for me to do the
things I do and have the time that I have, it's those people.
I went back to work after four months of having my son, and it was
one of the most difficult things I've ever done. It's one of my biggest
(22:45):
regrets also, but I truthfully, I was afraid of losing
my job. You know, you don't dare take an entire year off.
There were times where I'd be in my dressing room pumping and crying. My
hormones are crazy. I haven't slept in days, and now I've got to put a
dress on and pretend everything's okay and go interview this big celebrity. Like, I
know you're like, woe is me also. But it's a very real
(23:06):
thing whether you're working on an entertainment show live in front of a lot of
people or you're working in an office and you're a mom and you have to
go back. Like, I'm not gonna say that it was easy all the time because
it just wasn't. And that's something that society really has to
come to terms with. The fear of losing your job because you're at home doing
what you wanna do more than anything in the world is take care of your
(23:27):
newborn. I have to believe you must have turned on the television
set to see who was doing your role. And it must have been
really tough on you when you should have been just home celebrating
life. No. I wasn't turning on the role and worried about the person who was
filling in for me because I was also just happy for them.
I think where I struggled the most, and it wasn't with the job,
(23:49):
I knew intrinsically in me that my my kid
needed me. We know the importance of zero to three, that
mom connection. We know how big it is. So I had a lot of
guilt around that and a lot of fear and worry around that. And then
when it came to my job, I just I wanted them to know I was
still as dedicated, but I also did have,
(24:11):
at the time, a boss who was pretty good at making sure that
I still was able to be there for my kids. We also moved to be
closer to the station, my husband and I. So I was five minutes from the
station. I would always whip home and do what I needed to do. So
You know, you talked about in one interview how people would body
shame you for being pregnant. How do you come to terms with that as a
(24:33):
because there's a price that's you paid to be a celebrity. Funny. I don't see
myself as a celebrity. That's the weird part. Sure. To say that sometimes it
doesn't hurt would be a lie. But, also, I always would try to
remember it says more about that person than it does about
me. Because if you're a person who can put that out on social media
and say those things or say that behind someone's back, you've got a lot more
(24:55):
going on than I would care to recognize. But
there were more kind, loving, and supportive comments.
So it's kind of like, you get more of what you pay attention to,
right? Wherever you put your attention is what you get more of. So I just,
a lot of the time, just wouldn't give it energy, I wouldn't give it, didn't
give it air. And also my body was evolving. Me as a person
(25:17):
was evolving, and that's okay.
When we return, Cheryl Hickey's career and life is firing on
all cylinders. But one afternoon when she's swimming with her
kids, suddenly her heart fires out of control.
How does someone that wants it all and has it all deal with the reality
(25:37):
of it's not always your choice?
Hi. It's Tony Chapman, host of Chatter That Matters. Great leadership
is where we make things happen versus just simply watch and wonder what
happened. And a big shout out to RBC for investing their
intellectual and financial capital to help lead the way so
(26:01):
Canadians can thrive and our communities prosper. Olympics, the arts,
youth, climate change, and much more, leadership matters to RBC.
Even now, it's like, no, I have to step forward myself. And that's my
biggest challenge right now. That's terrifying to me. So I've
(26:21):
been in a group or in a co host position for so long.
I don't even know how to step out on my own. And so that's my
lesson right now. You know, that's my growth. Joining me today is
Cheryl Hickey. For eighteen years, she graced your silver screen as the
host of Entertainment Tonight Canada. What I thought was gonna be a
show about interviews and celebrity, well,
(26:43):
I'm celebrating because this show is about life and transitions
and dreaming and doing.
2018, I believe, you had a a serious health
crisis. 2018, it was September. It was film festival,
which everybody who knows entertainment and knows, you
know, the scene sort of in Toronto. Time of year is really busy. It's
(27:05):
back to school. It's Toronto International Film Festival. It's all
of it. So those are days where you're working around the clock. You're
going. I actually got shingles right before film
festival on my back. I remember telling my boss, this happened.
She's like, we need you. You go on this medication
and you do what you need to do and you get going, as any
(27:28):
anybody does. Right? Like, we've all pushed ourselves and you just keep
going. So I did. Kept going, go, go, go, go, go, go,
go. It was the end of film festival. I was out in the back with
the kids. I was actually swimming with the kids, and I remember feeling my
arms being really heavy and my whole body being really heavy.
Made my way to the shallow end, and I stood up, and, again,
(27:50):
my body just like, it wasn't operating properly. And I screamed at the kids to
get out of the pool, and I knocked on the window to my husband, and
I was like, something's wrong. And my heart rate started to really go
up. And I went into the bedroom, immediately changed, put
some clothes on, and I went to the front of the house
oddly. And I remember my kids sitting in the bay window,
(28:12):
and I said to my husband, go get our neighbor who's a who's a nurse,
an ER nurse or a nurse. She came over and she's like, gas,
something's wrong. We're gonna need to call an ambulance. I was going into
AFib, that's atrial fibrillation, where your heart rate goes up really, really
high. So the ambulance comes. I remember being on the stretcher
and watching my kids' faces, and that's something that just horrifies
(28:34):
me. Anyway, went to the hospital. They tried to do all these things to get
my heart rate to go down. It wouldn't. There was medication. There was
these physical movements they tried to do. Nothing was working.
So then they said, you know, we're gonna need to cardiovert
you, which is they put you to sleep and they stock your heart back
into into rhythm. So my husband signed some documents, I
(28:56):
signed some documents, and the next thing I know, I was asleep and then
awake, and there were, like, nine doctors all around. It turns
out in the end, stress can do some pretty wild things to
the body. Not that I'm blaming myself, but I wasn't listening to
my own cues, and I wasn't taking care of myself the way I needed to
take care of myself, And I didn't have any boundaries and, and, and, and,
(29:18):
and, and, and, and, and I pushed it too far. For
me, it was the most incredible awakening.
It was also a big awareness because after the event you would think, well,
that's the end of that. And it wasn't because so much more
happened after that. I started to have a little, my anxiety kicked up
again. I was really nervous to be alone. I was afraid to fly. I was
(29:40):
afraid to drive. It was what if this happens again? So then I had
to go through this whole layer of it was like a mental
rebirth of trusting my body again. And all that was going
on while I was on ABC Canada. I remember having panic
attacks while hosting the show. One person you credit a lot
in terms of dealing with a lot of these anxieties and your ability to
(30:03):
cope is your mom, mind over matter. Tell me a little bit about your
mom. My mom immigrated here when she was five years old with a
trunk. Her family came here from England.
They worked the farms. They lived in the top of barns. Her
always looking for the silver lining ever since she was little has
been something that I just admire so much. And
(30:25):
even when I was a teenager, I can remember her talking about mindfulness.
Remember back in the day when Oprah at 04:30 would always bring on these
mindful like, she brought mindfulness to the masses. She really did. So back
in that time, time, my mom and I sat down and we watched The Secret
and we would talk about, you know, how to frame your mind to do all
those things. She's really helped me in so many
(30:47):
ways when things are rough, when she's experienced rough
times on how to find the right
path. She's just my little light. I adore her. And at
2023, a tough year. I mean, the end of ET Canada
and the loss of your dad, two things to come at you at one time.
But let's talk about your dad because he was
(31:09):
one of the rocks of your life. Yeah. He really was and
is still. I talk to him every day. Yeah. I
mean, he had a really rare brain disease called progressive supranuclear palsy.
And if you knew my dad, he was just like a strong,
silent type of guy. And so as this disease sort of crept in, we
all knew something was wrong, but we couldn't quite put our finger on it. And
(31:32):
in 2023, he I don't wanna say lost his
battle, but he went to a better place. I truly believe that because he
was not living the life that he deserved to live for sure.
But he was a fighter. I mean, he had COVID twice during COVID. I
mean, he did the best. He fought the hardest he could to be around for
us. And in the end, losing him was,
(31:55):
I don't know, a parent is it's that stable ground, you
know? And so when he left, it was really
difficult. And again, another time where you
have to get up on that stage again. And in many
ways, being back on the stage that January
gave me a piece because it's weird when you go on stage and you do
(32:17):
things, you can flip a switch after a while and you can just
go. It also gives you a place of peace where you're
not sitting in your feelings all the time. Since it's, you know, it's interesting you
say that because a lot of people will find a way to mask that with
alcohol or substance abuses. And it's great that you had something where you could
flip the switch and remind you that life still goes on,
(32:39):
that you have that responsibility. I wanted my kids to see. It was
really important for me to show the kids, obviously,
grief and how to feel it because it's important to feel the grief and feel
the sadness, but also to appreciate this life that we have and that
you need to live it and you need to live it for the people that
you're with and honor the life that you're given. And
(33:00):
I had this beautiful life with my family, this incredible
career that had given me so much, that show. And so
getting back at it was really important. Wasn't easy all the
time, but it was really important to get back at it. And then
the show ended that September. I
thought it was probably gonna be one of the most devastating things to you
(33:22):
personally, but you said, in fact, if anything, it was a relief that this is
I should have made that decision maybe a few years earlier,
found a new tight rope to go on. And they they took the tight rope
away and I was okay. There were so many people who loved that show
and so many people who worked on the show that loved that show.
So was I sad that the show itself was ending?
(33:44):
Absolutely. It was a show that I think Canada still needed.
You know, talking I mean, Etalk's doing a fantastic job,
but I also think competition is good, and I think it's really important to
the landscape. So seeing the show end was I was sad for that
for Canada. But I have to say, as a person, as a
professional, I also knew that in my soul, I
(34:07):
wanted more. I wanted to talk about more things. I would go on the morning
show with Carolyn and Jeff. And I was like, that's sort of like,
like stirring something up in me. Like, this is exciting,
talking about other things that have to do that are outside of entertainment.
I still love talking about entertainment. I love talking to celebrities, doing all of
that. But also there was more. I could feel that I wanted
(34:29):
more. Let's sort of wrap the interview up, talking a little
bit about more out there. And I know that you're working on some stuff we
can't discuss yet today, but you had your stint in
hosting a show. You've got work ethic. You've got
personality. You've got presence. And more importantly,
you've got this incredible appetite for humanity.
(34:51):
So but is that the tease that we can get going forward
that we're gonna see more of Cheryl in the future? Listen, I have an incredible
appreciation and and gratitude towards global television for just sort
of the bedrock and the foundation and the growth and the people
that I had there. It was amazing. It was a fantastic time. And then
even the time I spent at Rogers, albeit it was really short, I had a
(35:14):
lot of fun there and I met a lot of really great people and some
really great things happened there. And actually told me and
reminding me of how much I love creating. And I
still love this business very much. And there are different platforms and
different ways to sort of scratch that itch, if you
will. I do love talking about the humanity and I do love
(35:34):
talking to people and bringing comfort. What I want
people to, who anyone who's listening to this, is to understand
that it's okay to transition, it's okay to
grow, allow it to be exciting, allow it to be
a little bit scary, but also look back on
all the successes or all the lessons that you've had and know that those are
(35:56):
stepping stones to where you're going next. And I have
some exciting things coming up and I'm excited for those things.
Now, Cheryl, I always end my podcast with my three takeaways and you used
the word in the last sentence that to me roared through the entire episode
and it's gratitude. You're so grateful to the small
town. You're so grateful to your parents, your husband, your
(36:18):
kids, the people that employed you, the people that believed in
you. And I think one of the great lessons in life, as big as you
might get in life, this day you forget about the people, the Yodas in the
world that helped you get to where you needed one, is a day that you
lose everything. The second one is this concept to speak to me. And there's two
ways I came through. The first was finding the things that speak to
(36:39):
you that you're passionate about, which I loved. I also love the way
you you sort of use it in a different way. So when people are
speaking at you, there's gonna be negative and positive. Choose what you wanna
listen to. Focus on the positive and you can grow from it.
Focus on what people are speaking in the negative and you're gonna succumb to it.
And I think that's a great lesson in life. And I realized this when my
(37:00):
dad passed, actually. This was my lesson. Obviously it
left a big hole, but I was like, I have a choice in how I'm
going to react to his death. Either I can let it shut me
down and do all the things, or I
can find the beauty and the grace.
I get to choose how I react here and how I'm moving forward.
(37:22):
We always have a choice, even in the most disastrous of
things, there is a choice. It could be a small choice, it could be a
big choice, but when you make one choice it leads to the next choice, and
the next choice, and the next choice. And that's what it is all about.
And your energy, you gotta follow your energy and where you wanna go, not what's
already happened. If something hurts, why are you reliving it? Why are you looking at
(37:44):
it again? It's over there. Where are you going? The final
lesson, this combination of friction and fuel that there's we're always gonna
face circumstances. And what I loved about the way you
overcame them, whether that was somebody that wanted to hold you back
or something you went after, is how hard you work. You
shadowed. I was up to three in the morning. I tried to edit to see
(38:06):
if I could cut a story. I painted the office purple. I
found this cat in the garbage, you know. For people listening, you know,
today, I think a lot of times life is easy. You now with AI, you
just say what you want, the video appears. The difference is
you had that ten thousand hours of practice. You went in there and you
said, no matter what it takes, and it wasn't to brag, it was
(38:28):
this is just what it took for me to chase my dreams. I
went into this just interested about your career. I'm walking
away from this interview. Absolutely. You've gotta become a keynote
speaker. Cheryl, I've hosted conferences for the last
fifteen years all over the world. Your message, whether it's a
fireside chat or a lot just out there telling your
(38:50):
story is what the audiences today need to hear because right
now we are succumbing to this overpowering negativity
out there and with it, then the world's impossible. And it's not It's
odd. The reality is if you focus on the positive, things have become
possible. I'd open to trying that.
Once again, a special thanks to RBC for supporting Chatter That Matters.
(39:14):
It's Tony Chapman. Thanks for listening, and let's chat soon.
Popular Podcasts
Boysober
Have you ever wondered what life might be like if you stopped worrying about being wanted, and focused on understanding what you actually want? That was the question Hope Woodard asked herself after a string of situationships inspired her to take a break from sex and dating. She went "boysober," a personal concept that sparked a global movement among women looking to prioritize themselves over men. Now, Hope is looking to expand the ways we explore our relationship to relationships. Taking a bold, unfiltered look into modern love, romance, and self-discovery, Boysober will dive into messy stories about dating, sex, love, friendship, and breaking generational patterns—all with humor, vulnerability, and a fresh perspective.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com