Emma Beehler - Her Beautiful Autistic Mind

Emma Beehler - Her Beautiful Autistic Mind. In today's episode of Chatter that Matters, we challenge perceptions about neurodiversity. Society often views neurodiverse individuals through a lens of limitation versus exploration.

We overlook the extraordinary contributions of neurodiverse minds to our world. From scientific breakthroughs to artistic masterpieces, many of our advancements have been through their unique lens onto our world.

Joining me are Emma Beehler, a remarkable young woman who is exceptional in math and music and a world-renowned competitive cheerleader, and her parents, Brian and Natalie. Emma offers profound insights into how she views the world and how the world views her.

Listening to Emma, you'll discover how we can all learn and grow from her insights, why she is a crusader for positive change, and why we value her beautiful autistic mind.

 

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
Today on Chatter That Matters, I want to embark on a
journey of exploration, introspection,
and I want to chase the answer for a single question, 1 that
challenges our perceptions and assumptions. Is
society putting up systemic barriers and holding back
certain individuals, but in fact, doing so,

(00:25):
holding back all of society. My
brain is hooked up differently. It feels like
I I have good
memories, and I'm a best friend. A daily,
battle with discrimination against an
ableist system that does not want me

(00:46):
around. Autism means to me how I view the
world and how I share my viewpoints and experiences with Matters.
Neurotypicals and neuroatypicals.
It means I see the world differently than others. I can
see things that others may not. I want
people to understand me. I struggle with

(01:10):
relationships, but I still want the same
things as others. A job, a girlfriend,
and to live on my own someday.
Joining me today is a remarkable woman. Emma
Beeler is an individual who's a world champion in
cheerleading, a stellar student, musician,

(01:32):
and cherished daughter. But she also has autism.
And joining her today is her mom, Natalie, and her dad, Brian. Every parent wants
people to appreciate their children, to think they're amazing. And so it's
really hard when someone doesn't. So you need to be
prepared for that. It's going to happen because people don't
living

(01:55):
testament
living testament to the extraordinary capabilities that are within all of
us. Yet despite her undeniable achievements, she
faces obstacles and prejudices that at times diminish her
light. That zest and appetite for life.

(02:15):
As we travel with her and look at the world through her
eyes, we're going to confront some uncomfortable truths about
the barriers woven and how we think about certain
people. You know, we say they have disabilities. They're different.
This insidious undercurrent of ableism, our collective failure
to embrace neurodiversity. But the more we learn about neurodiversity,

(02:38):
the more we realize that some of the greatest inventions, innovations,
and step forwards in society have been people that we
say are on the spectrum. I think you'll find Emma's journey is
1 of hope, and she's a beacon of resilience,
illuminating the path towards a more inclusive and equitable
future. And you're gonna find a fighter who's not

(02:59):
prepared to accept the status quo or the barriers
society often puts up. This is
Chatter That Matters with Tony Chapman, presented by
RBC. Emma,
Brian, and Natalie, welcome to Chatter That Matters. Thank you. Thank
you. I've never had a family on my

(03:22):
show. I've had a daughter and father, but I've never had
a family. So I'm quite excited how this is gonna, work out. And
Brian and Natalie, I wanna start with you. As parents,
when did you start realizing that Emma
had these unique gifts? She's always been just
intensely happy, intensely exuberant, intensely,

(03:45):
like, everything about her was intense from the time she was
born. Most of that time was joyful, happy,
musical, active, everything. She learned to speak
early. She learned to walk early. She was
determined to do anything that she wanted to do. She was going to
figure it out. But she was also very set in her

(04:08):
ways. We would have so much trouble getting her to get dressed in
the morning unless it was her choice of what she was going
to wear and it had to be a dress. For the longest time, she wouldn't
wear anything around her waist. And if we moved something around in a room,
she didn't like that. She would move it back and she used
to put things in in baskets and carry them from 1 place to

(04:29):
the next and then set them up and then put them back in the basket,
carry it to another place, set it up again. It was very specific
kind of play and because we have a son who who has autism,
we already kinda knew what to look for.
But the the thing with Emma was that she was so sociable.
We just saw some of the tendencies but we didn't realize

(04:51):
because she was so different from her brother. And, Emma, do you remember doing that?
I mean, is that was that an early age where you sort of said, this
is what's important to me or was it just that is what a child does?
I honestly, I don't really remember, like, a lot of that, but I know that
I did it. I think that for Key, that was just kind of the way
I worked. And when you started sort of making friends and such, did you

(05:11):
feel that the way they played and you played
were different? Or did you did you feel that you saw the world different? I
wanted things to be my way. And so when I would play, I don't think
I had the opportunity to see if someone played differently because it would normally
be how I would play. Because I I felt more
comfortable in situations that I could control what was happening. So I

(05:34):
just kind of took the lead on it whenever I would play with friends. And
how about you, dad? I mean, you know, I know that, the mother of my
children would have a different level of intuition if they were, you
know, about their moods and the things they were thinking. And
dads to me is much more to me that least it was much more physical
prowess, you know, was hanging out, playing, riding a bike. Did you

(05:55):
notice? What did you sort of experience from this young
phenom? I definitely saw it differently than what Natalie
saw. Natalie is the 1
that would pick up on those things. So for me and Emma, our
relationship was very much play and it was very much be in a
room doing pretends, doing silly songs, doing,

(06:18):
those types of things. So for me, it was never really a
recognition that there was something wrong. I always just said, oh,
that's you know what? That's cool. I get to play with my
daughter. Until That said, do you notice
this? I would be the 1 to be like, nah. Key, there's
there's nothing there. Right? Like, it's not like Sam.

(06:40):
Without, Nat, I don't think we would have
gotten to the point where the diagnosis happened. With if
it were just up to me, Tony, it would have been, she's great. Like, she's
got tons of energy for sports. She's doing all the things. Right? It's kind
of all the things of when, you know, being 53
years old and back that when I was a kid, just give us some riddling

(07:02):
and and go away. I almost would say I
was probably autistic back then and and I still am. And
so I don't see I don't feel the difference. I don't see the difference in
my daughter. So now I do. As you start coming to
terms with the fact that you're getting this diagnosis and stuff,
what advice can you give other parents? Because to me,

(07:25):
the 1 thing about health is it changes your direction almost
immediately in life, whether it's your health or someone that you love.
How should parents open their minds to what they've been
blessed with versus maybe sometimes close their minds because
this is not what they expected. Does that make sense? Okay. First of all, we
were fortunate because we when Emma got her diagnosis, it

(07:46):
wasn't a surprise by that. And we had also dealt with
Sam and with his diagnosis. So we had gotten the chance already to see
how amazing he is. We started to see that autism, yes, it had a
few challenges, but really it's more of a it's amazing.
The way their brain works is absolutely fantastic. And they
don't get held up, like held back by so many things.

(08:09):
So when we got Emma's diagnosis,
first of all, it didn't change who she is. And that was
something that I thought was really important and that's 1 of the things they told
us when they gave us the diagnosis. They said, don't forget, you've known her
for all of her life. You've loved her. You've taken care of her. You've
met her needs. And just because you have a diagnosis

(08:31):
now doesn't change who she is. It doesn't change what you know about
her already. All that does is help you to,
help her to thrive. How important is that mindset? Because
you approach it with that is an amazing mind. There's some challenges,
but how important do you think that is for not just people that
are love people that are in their family that are artistic,

(08:55):
but it's society in general to start thinking about it that
way. Given the society we in, and we're trying to be as
inclusive in everything from, all the different communities
to people with autism to
all those other aspects. So for me, it's the acceptance and
the of who they are as a person and trying

(09:17):
to make the environment as accepting and inclusive as possible
for them to thrive. I mean, especially in a working environment and
Emma is in university right now and will be a
teacher in the next 4 to 5 years. That's what I
hope continues to happen is that society and
environments are very inclusive for minds,

(09:39):
such as Emma's. Emma, it's like, I you know, we're gonna get into I love
the fact that when the pandemic hit and you just decided
you're not accepting status quo, And we're gonna get into that. You're a fighter.
I'm curious as to your point of view
of do you feel you have to go out of your way to be like
other people? Or are you thinking society is now

(10:01):
starting to realize that diversity is actually to
everybody's advantage? Well, I see that in terms of different
cultural aspects. Like, I've noticed, like, it's gotten a lot better and
that people are starting to really just admire, for example, African American
hairstyles. They're starting to really admire the food of different cultures and they're
starting to really see how important it is. I don't think that the same

(10:23):
mindset is brought into disabilities. People tend to
look at those that are different in that way kind of
uncomfortably because of what they've been taught through norms of
media on TV shows, how it's shown, and that they don't really
realize that there are people that are higher
functioning on the spectrum. For autism example, that doesn't really

(10:45):
show, but there are certain things that they have that's different from other people.
So I find that if I don't mask it, people
tend to be more hesitant with me. So
I kind of learned quickly that I just kind of had to more react to
what they were doing instead of them having to react to what I was doing.
My social battery could be completely dead and you wouldn't know because I would know

(11:07):
that I still needed to be interacting with someone because that's what they were doing
to me. When did you start that play acting? Does it
ever get to the point where you're overwhelmed by it because
you just wanna have a bad day or you just wanna be tired or you
just wanna, you know, not be with people. When did you
start making those moves so that you could meet people

(11:28):
on on their elevator floor versus, you know, them
not coming to terms with where you were. Does that make sense? I didn't originally
see, like, my difference in terms of, like, sociability or anything like that until
I was, like, 13, so grade 7 probably. That was kind
of when I started noticing, like, that people were making jokes
or other things that I didn't understand, and I wasn't,

(11:50):
like, quite catching social cues. And That was kind of
that was when I was starting to see that aspect of my autism coming into
play. And so I think that was kind of when I started to have to
learn to pretend I understood the joke or to just kind of, like, act
like that. I think that's when it started. It's really come into play also in
the workforce because when you're a coach and you're talking to parents and

(12:12):
you're talking to other athletes, you have to make sure that you're always like on
top of things because, like, you're watching their kid or you're in charge of
them. And so they have to make sure that they approve of what you're
doing as well. So in that sense, it's, like, important to mask it. Do you
ever just get overwhelmed because you have to put that
suit of armor on every day to be

(12:34):
like others when you could just sometimes wish that if they only
knew what was really going on in your mind, they would just be mesmerized
by some of the things you're thinking about? Yeah. It's an interesting way to look
at it. I never thought of it that way. I do definitely come home,
like, exhausted mentally a lot of the time,
especially when I come from, like, a long day at school, and then I would

(12:55):
have practice, and I'd have work. If I had all Three of those in 1
day, I'd be pretty much done wanting to talk to people when I get
home. I tended to put that suit of
armor, like you said, on more in my
sport aspect than that school. Because at school, I was I was in a music
program, so I was able to, like, be myself anyways because that was, like, a

(13:17):
big part of who I was. But it was always when I got, like, to
cheer that I needed to, like, put that on and act a bit differently
because I didn't want to affect the team's progress because I thought I would. So
before we get into the cheerleading, which is such a big part of your life,
were you ever in situations where you were bullied
because you weren't what that other person deemed to be normal, or

(13:39):
they thought they could take advantage of the fact that you might not
be on the same bandwidth they were? So I went to a
kindergarten to grade 8 school. So I was with, like, that group of kids
my entire school career up to that point. So
even when I started noticing my differences in grade
7, they didn't see them because they were already, like, they've already been with me

(14:01):
for a lot of years. So it didn't really come into
play. But then I think when I Chatter schools and I got into high
school, it was a little bit different. That did kind of go
together with when I started a higher level of cheerleading
that so happened to be my 1st year of high school, which also changed
how I looked at being bullied. Like, I would actually notice it, and I would

(14:23):
actually care. So in grade 9, like, some of the guys in
my class, I was really smart. And so I would speak up. I would be
be respectful to the teacher. I would always answer questions because that's how I
was taught. The guys in my class would bully me and
compared to in elementary school when I would just brush it off or I
would tell them off and say, that not okay. I would kind of just take

(14:45):
it. I let it go on for 4 years. And mom and dad, what's what's
happening with your life? You know, you're watching your daughter and, you know,
up until grade 8, sounds like she's running the classroom like she ran
the home and run, ran, play with her friends. And she gets to high school,
it's a very different world cause people don't have the same context. And is it
a natural thing for parents to be overprotective in this

(15:07):
situation? Or did, or did you feel that maybe the best strategy was
she's gonna have to figure out her life in the real world. We'll let her
figure it out in high school. We were really fortunate because
in high school, she was in this small special program
and the teachers all knew who that knew who she was, they knew
what her strengths were, they knew what her needs were. So we didn't

(15:30):
really have to intervene very often. There was
a teacher that was assigned to,
all of the students on the spectrum at the school so we could reach out
to her if there was an issue, and then she would speak to Emma, and
Emma was really good at speaking to adults about what
was going on. So then she got help. It wasn't as

(15:52):
easy outside of school. Yeah. Outside of school was where it was much more
difficult because Emma went from
being this person who was so confident and
capable of advocating for herself. And she knew who she
was and she was happy with who she was and all of that. And then
it was related to Chatter, unfortunately. Cheer had always

(16:14):
been so good for her until then as well and it all kind of happened
at the same time she changed schools and went on a higher level of cheer
then on that cheer team she was being mistreated and bullied
by, not just athletes but adults
there too and then that affected her in high school. That
made it so that she couldn't navigate for herself anywhere, anymore.

(16:52):
Let's get into cheer. You're 1 of the best in the world.
How did cheer first come about? And for
the audience that often sees it as sort of this
entertainment within a sporting event or something, Just give share with
us why this will become an Olympic sport
and how much it meant to you. So, the story that was always told to

(17:14):
Key for when I was really little, because I started when I was 5, was
that I was really outgoing and that gymnastics took too much waiting
for me. So my mom got told about cheerleading,
and so she put me into cheerleading because it was Three, like, a
sport for someone who was outgoing. For people that
aren't quite aware of the aspect of elite cheerleading and I'll start

(17:37):
cheerleading versus sideline cheerleading. 1 way
that I've always explained it to people that have asked me is that it's kind
of a mix of dance, gymnastics. I say weightlifting, but
it's just because we lift people up. But, yeah,
acrobatics. I think it's just kind of a mix of a lot of it. We
do keep some of the traditional aspects of sideline cheer in terms

(17:58):
of like the showmanship or performance. Trying to
be, like, as tight as clean as we can. So we're making sure our emotions
look right. We do the dance aspect. We do the lift aspect. It's
just not for entertainment. It's for sport. Like,
it's extremely difficult. I remember winning so many arguments with
people who said, oh, no. It's not it's not hard. It's not that dangerous. And

(18:20):
I'll I'll pull up Google and they'll say cheerleading is the 2nd most dangerous
sport in the world. And I kind of nod my head. I'm like, yeah. That's
true. And, dad, how do you I mean, what started off as something
for her energy and athletic ability, She's climbing the
ranks. It sounds like that the further you got, there'll be more
people competing for those positions. Key know how often in

(18:42):
in sports when you get to be an elite Three, it's the parents that exhibit
the worst behavior. First of all, that's not the behavior you ever
wanna see any coach or parent give to any kid that's just trying
to do their best, but you're also, your kid's got autism. So how how
does dad react to all of this? The fact that you have a world
caliber athlete in the home, but at the same time, that suit of armor that's

(19:04):
carried her this far seems to be falling off her. So for me,
that was it's extremely difficult to watch because I coach at an
extremely high level for baseball. I have autistic kids
as a coach. I treat them like everybody else. Like, I
recognize their environment and what they need, but it's
it's almost that suck it up, and you're an elite Three, and you

(19:27):
need to perform at a high level. So for me, it's
it was really difficult to this is my baby
girl whose armor is broken, as
you said. And people are not giving her the
opportunity to be able to be her best self within a
sport that she loves as a coach. I knew

(19:50):
I hated it when parents interfered. And
so that part of it, Key, I think Natalie and I as
parents, we would have tussles about
that. Like, I'm like, well, you can't really interfere, Nat,
because, you know, it's it's an elite world class
level now. However, at an emotional level with

(20:12):
Emma in the car and different things, I would give her strategies to
be able to work with, from my experience in in
competitive sport. So it's different from a dad's perspective
because you really don't you wanna protect. And but at the same
time, you still don't wanna let her lose that competitive edge that she has.
And, Natalie, I could see your jaw tightening a couple of times when

(20:34):
you're remembering these these points. How does a mom react?
Because it's gotta RBC, like, you know, we all dream of
a level playing field where the best athletes have an opportunity
to be the best. And yet when that's not the
case or somebody's trying to pull somebody else down, not
because of athletic ability, but trying to find, some

(20:56):
vulnerability, it's gotta be tough in a month. Probably the worst thing you could do
to me is hurt my child. It was particularly hard because,
as I said before, Emma used to be able to advocate for herself and she
felt confident. She felt that she was a good person and all of that. And
so when the difficulties started, I could
see the change in her and it was so hard to watch because

(21:19):
it's felt like there was nothing we could do about it. We tried to,
you know, role play with her, talk to her, brainstorm, come up with ways to
help her to let people know what was happening, and
it wasn't working. Her confidence was just, like,
reducing and reducing. So that was so hard to to watch.

(21:40):
You became quite famous in the pandemic because you refused to accept the fact that
some sports pandemic because you refused to accept the fact that
some sports were allowed to continue to train, and
yet they considered, your sport an easy
political football to say that shouldn't be something that we can
practice. And, yeah, I would have to believe that competitive cheer is
pretty typical to, do virtually. Tell us how

(22:03):
you decided that this was not gonna be
acceptable, and did it help you maybe with your confidence? The fact that people started
really listening to you? Yeah. I remember that, time. It was
really hard for me. I was at home, and the way that we would
work was that, our coaches would send us kind of a Zoom link
and we'd be on the Zoom call for the time that our practice normally would

(22:25):
be asked. That we'd still have, like, our endurance, but it would just RBC, like,
they'd be on the phone and they'd be telling us, okay, you need to do
20 sit ups, you need to do this. And it wasn't actually, like, do any
cheer. It was just a workout every single time. And so it wasn't
really doing any of my sport. Like, I would go out on the trampoline and
I would do some some of my tumbling just to, like,
keep up my stamina, but that was all I could do. And it was getting

(22:48):
to the point where I was getting, like my mental health wasn't good either because
I wasn't doing that physical activity that I needed. Then there were
a few sports that were allowed to start practicing. I remember 1 of
my friends who played rugby, football,
and lacrosse, he started doing his lacrosse again, with a mask
and, like, with regulations. And so I got super excited. I was like, oh, great.

(23:09):
We're going to get that message soon that we're gonna get to start practicing. And
then our coaches explained that we weren't going to be reopening,
and I was confused. And then I kind of got more information, and they
said because in Ottawa and Ontario,
cheer wasn't considered a competitive sport. It was considered
a recreational activity. It's definitely not a recreational

(23:31):
activity. I've hurt myself a lot of times doing this
recreational activity. I was starting to get really frustrated because I
knew that it was a sport. I knew that it was way harder than
people were saying and that it deserved to be practiced again because athletes
can't be taking that long of a break. And so I started
reaching out, to different radio shows and

(23:54):
different news outlets, just to explain, like, that
this should be recognized and that this should be something that's reopened because there are
so many athletes sitting at home watching other people get to start practicing their
sport again, being told that what they do isn't as important as what other people
are doing. And my 7th and 8th grade English teacher
was the 1 who kind of taught, like, showed me how important the written word

(24:16):
is, like, how much a letter can do, how much just advocating
for something can do. And so I decided to try and advocate for
it. And I got to do those shows to just kind of talk about what
cheerleading is for Key, and it paid off
and we got to go into the gym and practice. It wasn't our full sport
capacity, but it was definitely we were in the gym. We got to start doing

(24:37):
our tumbling again. We weren't allowed to do the stunting aspect. So the
lifts, but it was still we were with our teammates. We were
starting to practice at least half of it. So it made me
feel really good because I knew that I had done something that changed my
life and that changed the lives of my friends. Did it change how you thought
about yourself that you, in fact, you could be part of changing

(24:59):
society for the better? Do you ever think of it as that important or no?
I'm just happy I got us back in the gym. I didn't at that point
think about, like, the social like, the society changing aspect of it. I
was just kind of happy that I could be out of the house and be
doing something with my friends again. I do think, like, now that I look back
at it, that was the end of my first, like, high,
like, high level season. So we didn't actually get the full

(25:23):
that full 1st season. So it was in the start of that if
of my 2nd year in that level. And so for me, it kind of impacted
me because it allowed us to practice and then actually compete
that season instead of probably having to wait another full season before doing it
again. But I get to look at it now and say I probably wouldn't have
been at the level I'm at now if I had to wait even

(25:44):
longer because I would have been able to progress further. Your
team, I believe, is the world championships and you win the silver
medal. Yes. Last year. Like and you're very close to winning gold. At Worlds,
the way it works is there are 2 2 competition days. So the first
1, you're basically competing against your everybody that's
in your division in your country. So So we were 12 Canadian teams in the

(26:06):
category that I was in last year. So on the 1st day, you're
competing only against them. And then what happens is the top Three
from each country get to go to the 2nd day. So
we ended up being 1 of those 3. And the way that that works
then is you compete against everybody that
made that final day. So from the UK, from we had someone

(26:28):
from Brazil, we had people from Australia. Like, you get to then go against
them, and then that's brought into the final ranking.
So for us, on the first day, we were actually
world champions. On the 1st day, we had the highest score in
Canada and in the world. However, on the second day,
we dropped by, I think, 2 points. 2 points. And so

(26:50):
then that the other team was ahead of us by that. But this was
really cool because in Ottawa, the highest placement
that's ever been that had ever been won at that point was bronze.
So we made history for how
high we placed, which was super surprising because we hadn't actually won
any of our competitions that we were against anybody the entire

(27:13):
year. So we went into worlds
with no expectations. We we went in with a mindset of
we're gonna do our best. Our goal is just to hit our routine, so no
mistakes. We did that. It was amazing
because at the beginning of the year, we actually weren't even enough to compete.
We were really small team and we managed to

(27:36):
there were people that came in and so Three we managed to have just enough
people to compete. And because we were that small of a team,
our bonds were super, super tight. So none of us felt like we
were competing against each other. None of us felt like 1 would go
behind the other's back. We were all there for each other. And I think that
really helped us kind of with that team dynamic going
forward to keep reaching our goals. This

(27:59):
beautifully tight knit team, you're bringing in, you know, people
along the way. You're assembling it. You go into the next year and you get
injured. It was a normal team practice.
I was we were doing some repping. We were just practicing some of 1
of our tumbling passes that we do close to the beginning of the routine.

(28:20):
For people who are technically aware of what this skill means, it's
a round of handspring full. For those who aren't, it's basically a
backwards flip with a Three 60 twist in the air landing on
feet. And it's a skill that I've had for
4 years. So it was pretty simple for me
to keep like, I was throwing it a lot. We were doing a lot

(28:43):
though, so I was really tired. We got into the point where I landed I
landed on my feet, but I kept twisting. And
so my knee unfortunately dislocated and then
relocated. And then I was unable to walk. I had to go to the
hospital. I was out for a really long time.
At that point, I was watching my team practice instead of actually practicing because I

(29:05):
wasn't able to. How hard was that for you to sort of the reality
of this, you know, this team that was so tightly knit that you were so
part of setting this record that you're on the sidelines with this
a knee? Because I gotta have to believe that that's gotta be 1
of the worst things to hurt if you're in competitive chair is your knee.
It took us a while to actually finally get a diagnosis of what was wrong

(29:27):
with it. Fortunately, it wasn't anything that would
end my career, but it was really scary and just kind of disappointing
to have to sit and watch, especially because I knew
that there were was someone that could do my position.
Like, they didn't it wasn't like they were anxiously waiting
for me to get better. It's kind of like I knew then that my

(29:49):
season would change from that, even if I could get better.
When you're finally physically capable
of getting back, the doors weren't as wide open as they should have
been. I knew personally that when I was injured, I knew that I
wouldn't be able to go back and do, like, for example, that skill again probably
for a while, given that it was hard for me to do most

(30:12):
things for the 1st few months. Given the fact that the team was
bigger, I knew that I wouldn't be given the same opportunity
necessarily because I hadn't been practicing for a really long time.
Honestly, yeah, I wasn't put back in the same position.
Now I'm just not currently on a team, so I I'm waiting for
the next season to start to explore different options

(30:35):
and find out, like, a team that works for me, that Chatter accepts me,
that just overall is good for my mental health and good
for everything around me. So currently, I'm in a little bit of an in between
stage. And there's teams that are interested in you? Yes. Do you think
it's gonna continue to be as important to you as it was
back then because you've also got your music, your teaching,

(30:56):
university, all sorts of the other things that you're doing. Do you think it's gonna
be 1 of your north stars? I definitely
still have that, like, hope of winning worlds.
I've learned through this experience that I need to kind
of look at other aspects of my life as well because I put cheerleading,
like, really high up on a pedestal. Whereas, like, if I had a

(31:19):
bad practice, my entire mood would be changed. Like,
even if I had the best day ever at school and, like, I had a
performance with my band and it went really well. If I went to practice
and it was bad, that was what I would be affected by. Not the
fact that I had an amazing musical performance. It was it was all dependent
on if I did well with my team, if I was performing well

(31:42):
for cheerleading and I didn't really
see that. My mom did. And she kind of like
tried to maneuver me to, like, think about, look, you did this amazingly with music
or look, you got a really good grade in school. But I would constantly go
back to it. But cheerleading is like what I'm doing. I think moving
forward, it's still going to be important to me because it's like it's a sport

(32:04):
I've been doing for almost 14 years. I just I think I've learned
that I need to also think that I have so many other
talents and things in my life that are important. And so I've been
putting my music ahead of most things now, which has been really
good. Like, I've I get to do
acquire like, I was in choir for university, and I actually get to perform at

(32:25):
the NAC, next month. I make sure that I
take every opportunity I have to hang out with friends that I wouldn't normally hang
out with. I'm volunteering that my church, and I'm
taking up more shifts at work because I love coaching there. It's like it's
they're super accepting and they're that best job I've ever had. I've
definitely recentered my life. That it changed the way you thought

(32:48):
of the type of team you wanna be in given your experiences with the other
1? Yes. I definitely put, like, skill level
to importance because I am competitive and I do wanna do well.
However, I've leaned away from it seeing what
can happen when teams do really well,
where it's just Key put into importance of how I do, like, you need to

(33:10):
win, you need to win, your skill level is important. I've changed it into
more of the fact of, yeah, winning's obviously great.
But if my mental health is plummeting because of it,
was that worth it? So I put into a lot more importance
how the people are at the gym, not necessarily how

(33:30):
their scores look, though it is important.
I've made it a point to know how they treat their athletes,
how will the athletes treat each other, how I would be treated in
that situation. Otherwise, it's not happening. So mom and dad, I'm gonna
ask you a tough question. It must have been the hardest thing in the world,
obviously, to see your daughter injured and not getting her

(33:53):
shot that she so rightfully deserved. But do you think this
is overall look this is probably 1 of the best things that's ever happened to
her because she's got this new outlook in life that she's she's got
diversity in her life in saying it's not just cheerleading. It's it's my
music. It's my volunteering. It's my
making time for friends. How do you look at it? Yes and no.

(34:15):
I think that, I'm really happy
that Emma's been able to
change her mindset. I think that's really great, and I really
hope that she will continue that way because she really does have a lot
of gifts and talents. And I think she needs to remember that
because she did lose that and really felt like she, like, she

(34:38):
wasn't as valuable as everyone else. And so that was really hard to
see. Like, I'm not happy that it happened because
she really went through a lot of anguish, and so did Key, and there were
a lot of tears and there were a lot of a lot of times
where I just I didn't know how we were going to help her to get
up the next day. Yeah. I would never imply you were happy that it happened,

(35:00):
but just listening to how you sound. It's just interesting that she's got a
very mature outlook on life that just sort of says
there's other things in life than just 1 thing. Yeah. And I'm so
proud of her for that. She's amazing. She impresses
us every day with how she approaches things. And 1 of the things that I
think is really good was that through this situation that we had where she

(35:23):
ended up leaving the team, she was able to use something that we've
used with her from the time she was little. If you're
upset, if something bad happens, try and find someone to help.
And she's really embraced that. And that's her reason for wanting to do
that, because she really wants to make a change in the cheer
world because we've identified a problem. So she's not just going to sit

(35:45):
back and say, you know, that was awful what happened to Key. Poor
me. She's saying that was awful what happened to me.
I wanna make a change. And, Brian, I mean, you're you're driving around with a
trunk full of baseball bats. I mean, like, it must have
been very hard for you knowing how
much you're vested in sports because you understand

(36:08):
what it means when someone has a dream. Yeah. And they're going
after that Three, and they're committed to that dream. How did you
cope? Yeah. Being from the competitive world and, obviously,
for me, I've had several dreams and I still do. So,
you know, playing baseball was, hey, can I make the major league
someday? That that got hurt because I got hurt when I

(36:30):
was 16, 17 years old. If so, for me, when
we found out what we did,
and that Emma was no longer on the team, how can I fix
this? How can I advocate for my daughter? What platform
do I have? Because I know how to use the platforms to try
to advocate for what happened to my daughter. And so how

(36:52):
do I try to fix it or help her raise
her voice? As she said, her dream's not over. As a
father, that's all I can ask for is that my daughter's happy that
she's moving forward. And whatever I can do to help,
whatever this next journey is in her life, I will do. Are
you ever I mean, this is gonna sound so lame for you that

(37:16):
does this day in and day out, but I I looked at the videos, and
I've seen what you're doing. Are you ever scared out there? Because you're doing some
really for the average person, they look incredibly dangerous,
some of that things you're doing out there. It's scary when you first
start out doing it. So it could be at the beginning of the season when
you first learn how to do a new skill. When you when it's new,

(37:36):
it's Three. When you're learning how to do something. Yes. Because you know that you
I know the risks. I know I can get hurt doing it. I've seen that
I can get hurt doing it. I've seen other people get hurt doing it.
But because of how practices work in terms of you're doing the
same thing over and over again perfecting it, you kind
of lose that fear because you've done it so many times that you just assume

(37:58):
that it's gonna be fine because it's been okay. So
with the amount of practice this that gets put into it,
you're not I'm I'm not afraid of doing it when I do it because I've
done it so many times before that. When I'm performing, my
fear is more like, oh, am I gonna is this not gonna work? Is this
gonna fall? Is this gonna not go the way it did in practice? And do

(38:21):
you think your autism, where has it helped you be a better
athlete? And is there areas where you've
really had to work to overcome things because your brain
factors in things differently? I tend to hyperfocus on things, and
that's actually helped me and caused me
problems. 1 way is because I'll focus on a particular

(38:43):
skill until it, like, looks what it's supposed to look like. So I'll
be very laser focused on getting a particular skill and that's all I'll be
like doing. I want to understand, like, everything Three has to do with
what I'm doing. That, like, that came up for me with TV
shows and movies too. I'll go to the movie theater. I'll watch a movie. I'll
have the entire soundtrack downloaded by the end of the movie. I'll know where that

(39:06):
actor was in the first and wherever they were when they started their career. Like,
it's it's the same idea. However, I
questioned some of, like, some decisions that people on
my team were making or that my coaches were making because I was like, oh,
but that could be better because I've read this somewhere. And
then that got me into trouble because I'm obviously, you don't question the

(39:27):
authority that you have. But you've been you've been questioning authority since you were
Yes. You know? And how about trust?
Because part of the sport you're in is you have to trust
people are gonna catch you and lift you properly. That trust ever
been an issue for you? Since I was little, I always assumed that I would
be my interest was being put first in terms of, like,

(39:48):
the coaches or, like, that they they cared, like, for the team that they
were coaching. My teammates, we were always super close. My
coaches always cared for me. And then when I got to the elite levels, they're,
like, the competitive aspect got, like, I think, put to into
too much importance and the people were less of the importance, more as
the results that they were producing. So I started

(40:10):
losing my trust. I've been wrestling with this thought for a few weeks
of like, how am I gonna ever trust the people that
are in charge of me again? How am I gonna trust my teammates because
I lost it because of what had happened?
When we returned, Emma asked me to record a
further segment of the show, something I rarely do, but she had

(40:33):
something to say about the team that refused to
let her play.
Hi. This is Tony Chapman, host of the radio show and podcast Chatter That
Matters. Did you know that only 1 in 5 youth with a mental
health illness can get access to the care they need? Well, a

(40:54):
big shout out to the RBC Foundation and RBC Future Launch
for supporting over 1 150 youth mental health organizations.
And in doing so, they help youth and their families get the care they need
and deserve.
It seems like society has been made to look at people that

(41:16):
are different, that don't fit inside the box as less valuable,
less important, less competent, less capable, and first of all, if we can
be comfortable knowing that's going to Chapman, so we can
insulate ourselves by knowing what's amazing about our children and
find people that are going to appreciate them as much as we
do or close. I think that'll help the

(41:39):
entire family to survive when it's like that. I think we can
advocate for people in the world to stop
expecting everybody to fit inside a box and to stop saying
unless you are like this. You're listening to Chatter That Matters
with Tony Chapman presented by RBC. So this is a little
out of the ordinary, but how could I ever say no to the

(42:02):
extraordinary mind of Emma Beeler? She reached out after we
recorded that session and asked if she could come back on
to explain more about how she sees her world.
So this is what Emma had to say, and then we'll dive back into my
conversation with Emma and her parents and, of course, my Three takeaways.

(42:24):
So, Emma, let's talk about the times when you felt
unaccepted and less valued, either on your team or in a group.
What does it look like? What did it feel like? And maybe what lessons can
we learn from it? Over the years, I've had multiple times
when at first, I didn't notice that I was being undervalued. But now that I
look back on it, I definitely was, and recently as

(42:45):
well. A lot of the time, people saw more that symptoms of
my disability rather than who I was as a person, And
then they treated me that way instead of treating me just for
a regular person and who I was. So, basically, whenever I'd be around
people, it basically felt like a heightened social anxiety almost.
I was, like, annoyed by I felt like people were annoyed by

(43:07):
my presence. They wouldn't answer my questions because they felt like I was asking too
many because that's what I do when I get nervous and when I'm in a
situation that doesn't work for me. Like, I ask questions to make sure that I'm
comfortable. I basically felt incompetent rather than, like,
when I was younger, how I felt very, like, gifted and very,
like, open and very exceptional, I felt. But then now

(43:28):
I've felt very incompetent in those situations and less important than the ones
that weren't that didn't have autism. It kind of made me
more less socially aware, so I would overthink social
situations more. And it just caused me to Three,
even just in my regular relationships in my life, overthink everything I was
saying and doing. It almost heightened my symptoms of

(43:50):
autism even though they are not normally super apparent. So when normally, when I
tell people that I have autism, they're surprised because they think of, like, common symptoms
that people have where it's, like, they're either nonverbal or they just can't communicate, and
they know they're like, well, you can't you can talk and you you're fine with
Key. And I and I say, yeah. That's just because I'm I'm high
functioning and it's how it works. But now I find that I'm

(44:11):
almost overthinking if I'm being, quote, unquote,
autistic in that sense. There's gonna be a lot of people listening
that might not be where you are in terms of, you say,
high functioning and autistic, but there's a lot of insecure people that I
would feel this is gonna relate to because they start feeling like they're
on their back feet, and they're get they're getting pushed back. And they don't

(44:33):
feel like they belong, and they feel like they're awkward, so they they go into
their little shell. And I think that what you're saying is so important
that, you know, if people just saw you as a
human being and realized that everybody's brain is
different. And we met people like you in the middle
and actually said, I'm gonna celebrate all these questions because it's an

(44:55):
interesting way to look at something versus I'm
gonna challenge all these questions because you're different than me. I think that's
an incredible lesson in life. I remember, like I said, when I was younger, I
definitely would not have related to to the people that you're mentioning just because I
was always I was like, oh, that's cool. My brain's different. Like,
that just makes me even cooler of a person. Like, I was very

(45:17):
open about it. I was I said what I understood about my disability,
and I didn't see it as a disability. I just saw it as something cool
about me. But now I because of the way I've been treated in certain
situations where I've been just put down and not
communicated too properly and not given the proper accommodations I needed, it's, like,
really, like, made it more evident to me

(45:39):
that my symptoms could affect me. And I think that, yeah, people
who even don't have autism, who are just naturally
not as socially, competent, it depends on the person. I think
that if they were just treated with, like, a certain amount of, not
necessarily dignity, but respect knowing who they are as a
person, it would probably make them feel a lot more comfortable talking to people

(46:01):
in general, not having to feel like they're doing something
wrong or, like, they're overthinking something. Being given the help I
needed and just being felt like I was understood and that I was a normal
like, a normal human being would have really helped me in those situations and probably
wouldn't have made things worse. You know, it's interesting because you
that switch goes from as a kid, you kinda see it as

(46:23):
something different and even a superpower. And then as
you start getting Three around like a pinball in a game with people
that just, you know, refuse to understand or appreciate or accept,
that you suddenly now that becomes a super weakness. And it really is
just a switch brought on not by you, not by your
mental well-being, but by the circumstances you're in.

(46:46):
And I just think that's, again, another lesson in life for all of us.
Accepting is not something like you do because you're kind
or, gee, you're a generous person, but accepting
is the middle ground that I think that if more Chapman stood on and
looked at each other and realized that we're all different in
different ways, I think we'd be a much better human race. And I think you're

(47:08):
that's kind of what I'm 1 of the lessons I'm learning from you today. Yeah.
I I totally agree. Like, I noticed, like, when I'm because I'm a coach.
I'm, I coach gymnastics. I I will be coaching,
cheerleading. I find that, like, when we we are made aware that an
athlete is on the spectrum or I could suspect that they may have something
that's different about them, I don't approach it almost

(47:30):
scared because I I know how I would have wanted to be treated. And so
I make sure I give those athletes the same amount of, like, encouragement. And if
they need communication, they'll answer their questions. I try to make sure that they can
progress at the same speed and at the same, like, level
as the other kids in their classes, even if they're younger, just because that way,
I don't push them off from the experience of the sport that they're trying to

(47:50):
learn. And just like in my regular everyday life, I'm
an emergency ECU, so I help out at, different schools in kindergarten.
And I make sure that I'm looking at the kids in a way that looks
at all of them the same so that they grow up with that same feeling.
So what other lessons in life do you have? I mean, you're providing some great
context as both a coach and and a a teacher

(48:13):
and someone that seeing what happens when you might be attacked or
challenged. What lessons in life would you give so that other
people like you can succeed and society's there
to to provide a hand up versus maybe push you back?
Mhmm. So I think that 1 of the most important things is definitely
communicating your needs. I know that there will some be there will always be people

(48:35):
who refuse to then accommodate them, but always
going head in saying, I have a
difference about me. This is something I need. This is what will help me.
Never be afraid to accommodate for yourself because once you've done that, if they don't
accommodate you, that's their problem, not yours. Also, there will be people a lot of
the time who don't necessarily see you for the things that you do well, but

(48:57):
will then see you for the things that you do not as well. So in
those situations, I know it's hard because it takes a big hit on your self
esteem and everything like Chatter, try to, when you get home or
just, like, have someone, like a mom or a dad or just anybody at
home, that can be there and be like, hey. What did you do well
today? And then you can list off the things that you did well because I

(49:18):
I've had the experience where I've been constantly just put down for
the things that I was doing wrong. Even I could do 10 things right, but
the 1 thing I did wrong was what was being focused on. And just not
getting that encouragement and not getting that, satisfaction of a
coach or a parent or not even no. My parents always tell me that. A
coach or an authority figure. Just saying, great job. You did a good

(49:38):
job would have helped me so much in those situations. So I think that I
had to learn to be my own cheerleader in a sense. Like, yes, you
did that well, and that's something to focus on. Because otherwise, you'll go into the
rest of your life kind of say, you're doing a homework assignment, and you'll focus
on all the things you did wrong instead of the other 20 pages you did
right. And it just it really takes a toll on you, so you really have

(50:00):
to try and focus on the silver lining rather than the things that went wrong.
What message can you give to the world? I know that
sounds very lofty, but it the more we're open minded
to everybody's mind, the better we'll be. I think that through this
experience, in terms of group aspects, I know
that I think I mentioned this at the beginning that there's been a lot of

(50:23):
stereotyping in terms of autism and how it is as
a disability. And people only see that there's like a low
functioning system where, like, they'll see, like, the ones that are nonverbal,
the ones that are violent, the ones that don't interact, like, well with other
people, but they don't understand that there's a spectrum. They don't understand
that having this disability isn't only the stereotyping that

(50:46):
they've seen. Like, it's also the fact that a lot of us are
incredibly smart. Like, you mentioned hindsight at the beginning.
Where would we be without those different theories? Thomas Edison. I mean, some of the
most amazing, brilliant thinkers. Exactly. So I think
that they embraced what they
had and but people don't say, oh, like they were

(51:08):
autistic and that's why that happened. They people are looking at it and saying, despite
the fact that they were autistic, it happened. What should be happening is they should
say, because they are autistic, they figured that out.
Because I think that a lot of people are looking that Chapman looking at it
as an obstacle. That, yeah, it is an obstacle for certain things, but it's also
1 reason that, like, so many creative thinkers Three so many different inventions have been
invented. It's because their brain works differently. Three I think that people just learn, you

(51:30):
know, because their brain works differently. And I think that people just
learn or get are more educated on it and just learn
to see that, yeah, they're different from me, but that could mean
that they produce an amazing outcome or different
outcomes. And what would that look like if I worked with them instead of
trying to work around the disability? I work with the disability. What do you

(51:52):
see you're gonna be? I wanna hear from you first, and then I'm gonna end
the show with my prediction of what might be a very of what might be
a very different gold medal for you in the in the future. But what's gonna
next 5, 10 years gonna be for you that you're gonna look and say,
I'm in a great place mentally, physically, my journey in
life? Yeah. I think that I want to almost go back to
the mindset I had when I was younger of I'm the way I

(52:15):
am, and that's okay. Like, I know I'm I'm in university
for music and second language teaching because I wanna
be in that world of music. And so I know that I'm not always
gonna be an athlete. I'm not always gonna be in that world. But like,
I've chosen to help people. And I think that
that's where I want to be. I want to be helping people, whether

(52:38):
it be at a school teaching or whether it be at
home, just helping people get, like, private lessons,
things like that. I want to be able to be seen as someone who helps
people. That's my biggest school. I think that that's what I would see. If
you had a magic wand, because that's what you're working campaigning for,
what changes and how soon? Things that I've

(53:01):
learned is that athletes need to be like
so for like so for us, it's Cheer Canada.
That's the big 1. And then there's OCF, which is Ontario Cheer Federation. There's a
lot of different federations. I thought at

(53:23):
first that every single cheer gym that, like, had to
be affiliated with those organizations because those
organizations their goal is to protect the athletes.
I recently found out that not every gym is
affiliated with those organizations. And it kind of scared me because I was
like, so if I am in a gym that isn't affiliated, I'm not protected.

(53:46):
And so what are we supposed to do when something
goes wrong and someone's not being treated fairly? You can't go to those
organizations because they're not affiliated with the gym. So I think
that 1 thing that I would wanna see changes that it needs to be mandatory
that every gym has an affiliation with a
national organization because athletes need to be protected in the sport that they're doing.

(54:09):
Parents need to be comfortable putting their kid in a sport knowing that
they have someone advocating for them and not against them.
All coaches that are working with children and young adults should have to
have some form of equity and inclusivity training. I
also want to see it, to become, like,
commonly expected practice that when any coach becomes aware of any

(54:31):
differences like mine or need for accommodations on their
team, that they would have access to resources and training that
better help that, to deal with it. But, also,
coaches should be reminded their parents can be a valuable resource as
well because I know that through my sports, a lot of the time, coaches
are focused on the team and they want to do well. So they don't they

(54:54):
don't really like interacting with parents. I think my dad said earlier that
parents can be Getting away. Getting away. Yeah. But I
think they do need to be seen as also like a valuable resource because they
know their kid. They know how to better help them. And I just wanna change
the culture in terms of how it's seen in the sheer world so
that all athletes with, like, required skills for elite levels can be

(55:15):
accepted and valued for those things, not
how they are mentally, but also, like, because
they have that skill, they have a personality. Just because they have a
disability doesn't change the fact that they have that skill. They should
belong either way because they've proven that they can
compete at the exact same level. It's all the other people on their team. It

(55:37):
doesn't change because of 1 thing that's different in their brain. What
advice do you give to other parents who either
find out that they have a child who's autistic or
that within their circle of friends someone has an autistic
child and deserves to have friendships and community just like theirs
does. You know, when you first get your diagnosis, you're going to be kind of

(55:59):
overwhelmed. Right? Oh, gosh. What is my child's life going to look like? That that
kind of thing. But, because you've known them, and you already love
them, and you already really know what they need, that doesn't change. So what you
need to do is just focus on the good things
that you know about your child, focus on their strengths,
focus on the things that make them amazing rather than

(56:21):
focusing on the challenges because you're going to need
that so that you can be encouraged when there are challenges and
your child's going to need to feel good about themselves
when they're encountering challenges. So if you focus on
developing their strengths and their gifts, you're almost immunizing
them against the bad things that could happen to them because of their

(56:43):
disability. I think that if we can talk to people and
help them to start realizing that every single person has a contribution to make
to this world, every single person is valuable. And if everybody were the
same, so many things wouldn't have happened that are good. We wouldn't like,
life would be boring. There would be so much we would be missing out on.
And if we could start realizing that we need every single person and

(57:05):
the contribution they have to make, I think the world would be a better place
and we wouldn't have to keep coming up with another group that needs help and
support, that needs to say, hey. Stop treating us like we're not as
valuable as you are. I always end my show with my Three takeaways, and
and my first is the 3 of you are incredible family
unit. Listening to you and watching how each looks at each other and nods and

(57:27):
stuff, there's an incredible amount of love that radiates in terms of,
you know, people that you had 2 children, that society could say we're very
different, but you both are very proud of because you go, they're different, yes,
because they're exceptional, and not everybody's exceptional. And the second thing
is I just really love when you sort of said, Here's
how I'm seeing my life and prioritizing it different. And it's

(57:52):
Olympians on my show, and once you're committed to be a world
champion, that's all you're focused on. You finish your sport, you realize, I
didn't have the the the high school. I didn't have the friends. I didn't have
the experiences others did because I was in the swimming pool, or I was was
playing on the tennis court. And it's really interesting that you've had that
ability to both chase a gold medal at a

(58:13):
world world level, and at the same time, you now have a perspective
that says there's more to life. Because I think a lot of athletes, when their
career ends very suddenly, they create a vacuum they don't know how to fill, and
sometimes it takes them a decade. But the third thing that I'm gonna go out
on a limb in saying, and I hope you'll come back on the show in
5 years, I think you're you're on this planet for a very different reason that

(58:33):
winning a gold. You are a change agent. You proved it through your
entire life that you love to be that sense of, setting the
scene, setting the table. You approved it through the pandemic by
refusing to accept that the ignorance of people that didn't realize you're a competitive
sport. And the fact that you're trying to advocate change within your sport, I hope
that you continue to use your voice, the written word that your English

(58:55):
teacher taught, the music that might turn into a song, but
open people's minds to the fact that diversity isn't just
acceptance. Diversity is a strength. And the more that
you can remind people by sharing your perspectives
on life, I think the more the better society is going to be. We're going
to be reading and listening and hearing you for

(59:17):
many years to come, and I think it's gonna be more than just for a
trophy you have on a mantle. I think it's gonna be because you're opening
minds to beautiful minds. Thank you. Thank you. Thank
you so much. Chatter that matters has been a presentation of
RBC. It's Tony Chapman. Thanks for listening. Let's
chat soon.