January 2, 2025 • 29 mins
I kick off the first Chatter That Matters episode of the new year by sharing my belief in the cosmic choreography of life—how meeting the right people at the right time is shaped by a blend of timing, fate, and intention. This belief perfectly sets the stage for my guest, Jennifer Laidlaw, whose presence and impact are extraordinary.
From her roots on a farm to becoming a champion with horses, Jennifer’s story could fill volumes. Yet, what truly sets her apart is her role as a catalyst for change—a gift that radiates beyond individuals to uplift entire communities and causes.
As we step into 2025, Jennifer brings invaluable wisdom to this conversation. She speaks about the transformative power of rest, curiosity, and maintaining a resilient mind in achieving success and overcoming life’s challenges. Jennifer also opens up about her health struggles, sharing profound lessons on the importance of truly listening—to ourselves and others.
Thank you for tuning in, subscribing, and sharing Chatter That Matters. To RBC, I send the biggest hugs for making this podcast and our focus on positivity and possibility not just a vision but a reality.
Happy New Year, everyone!
Key Takeaways:
- Cosmic Choreography: Life's timing, fate, and intention are crucial in meeting the right people and opportunities.
- Clear Intentions: Sincere and clear intentions can attract positive people and opportunities.
- Jennifer Laidlaw's Journey: From farm life to horse champion and transformative figure, Jennifer's story is about growth and impact.
- Importance of Rest and Curiosity: Rest and curiosity are essential for achieving success and overcoming resistance.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Now throughout my life, I've I've noticed a curious pattern.
I seem to meet the right people at the right time,
often when I need them most.
Coincidence perhaps, maybe it's luck.
Or is there something deeper at play?
A mystery to life that I don't quite understand,
but the older I get, the more I believe in it.
(00:27):
This cosmic choreography where timing and fate and intention
intertwine.
Some call it flow, others might call it karma, but I've come to believe that when you put your dreams and desires into the universe
with sincerity and clarity,
something remarkable often happens.
Your intentions become magnetic,
and they attract people and opportunities
(00:49):
that help you get to where you wanna go. One of the things that we do value as a society is hard work, and that's really good. It
One of the things
that we do value as a society is hard work, and that's really good, except that we don't
believe in the value of rest.
That's how I'm gonna introduce my guest today, Jennifer Laidlaw.
She actually reached out to me. She's a fan of the podcast,
(01:10):
follows me on LinkedIn, and we sat down and had lunch. And I walked away and realized I was in the company
as someone who had the ability
to change individuals
and even the world for the better. The people who are
just naturally really innovative, really progressive,
really want to change the world.
(01:31):
There are so many systems in corporations
and in
governments
that don't
tolerate them well. And so they tend to kinda push them out or slow them down or shut them up. That is going to be the key to unlocking our way forward.
Someone had that foundation
of early childhood and work ethic
(01:52):
who came through her own personal health crisises
with some unbelievable
lessons in life
about herself and others, and has spent her time working with individuals
to get them to push through this resistance, this negativity,
these barriers that prevent us from going where we know we would love to go. When you hear all of the stories of the people who have hit rock bottom,
(02:15):
that's always the story that they tell. There was something that shifted in them and they saw past all the things that were going wrong into possibility.
And the lessons you're gonna get today are not just for CEOs. They're not just for
entrepreneurs.
They're for the kids sitting in the basement wondering if they're ever gonna get to grab onto that career ladder. I think it's for the parents that are worried every day about the next bill that comes at them. There's lessons in terms of just our collective
(02:45):
consciousness in terms of going after what's possible
versus what we continually feel is impossible.
With all of that in mind, it is my great honor
to
introduce Jennifer Laidlaw. Jennifer, welcome to Chatter That Matters.
(03:08):
Thank you so much, Tony. I'm so excited to be here with you.
You know, Jennifer, from what I understand, you grew up in the small farm. You were,
you know, like a lot of families on the farm. You were there to work.
You had fun. Everything was going well. You became this champion with horses and showing horses,
And all of that brought you into a university that had seemed to have nothing to do with agriculture.
(03:32):
So talk to me about how you took the lessons from the farm
to university.
Where did it lead you afterwards? Do you found a path in your life
that was less about horses and fences and much more about
removing fences and letting people discover who they are and why they matter? I think it goes back to the fact that I did learn
(03:55):
and develop comfort with
not knowing
how. And so I was able to use curiosity. I didn't know what to do at university,
so I I signed up for, you know, a general program,
and it was it was in the process of discovering what I liked,
what kind of caught my interest, and
(04:15):
made me feel inspired,
to learn more and and develop and grow
and expand.
It all unfolded without a playbook.
We, as humans, think there must be a playbook for everything. The more we can
spend
in a powerful state of mind, the more that playbook emerges for us one step at a time. It is just like fog and driving in fog. You can't see all your way to your destination.
(04:45):
You can see a 100 meters in front of you. And if you're willing and committed to drive those 100 meters, you get to see a 100 more.
Ambiguity became one of my superpowers throughout my career. And when we were faced with change or transformation,
I was always excited about the ambiguity, the not knowing, because it spoke to me. It was it was potential and possibility.
(05:07):
You've got so many things happening for you. But in your twenties thirties,
you face significant
challenges.
I didn't know how to how to rest. So I kept very busy and I loved it, and I had incredible work. Like, I found my work in the Ontario public service really quite intoxicating. It was such huge transformation and change, and I just got so involved with it
(05:31):
that I lost sight of me and and my health and my well-being. The success was,
so prominent. And I I kind of refer to it as, like, I was a more monster. It was, like, more, more, more, more. I had stroke level high blood pressure
at 33.
Did you think your bad health having to finally learn how to listen to yourself
(05:53):
helps you with the superpower in listening to others? It never really bothered me that I had so much illness as much as it bothered me that
my experience was that it was getting in the way of what I wanted to achieve.
Realizing
having that insight that in fact, it was the problem
was transformative
that I could get a lot done
(06:15):
without all of the, you know, shaking the snow globe. And I could be a lot more powerful and do a lot more incredible things
when I was slowed down, when I was listening, when I cared about what state of mind I was coming from.
So I wanna draw these 2 parallel tracks for the rest of the interview because it you're in a career where you're doing more and more and more.
(06:37):
Your health is giving you less and less and less. And coming through this understanding, to me, it also changed your approach in life that you started to go from,
you know, maybe fixing things to saying, how can I help others get to where they wanna go? Resistance became the thing that I became aware of was the problem.
Efforting
(06:58):
is great when
it's not grind and it's not struggle.
It's really important to get to being in a powerful state of mind where you can let ease and flow
actually happen naturally that naturally, that things emerge in a much, much more direct way that the synchronicities,
the things that the conversations that come up, and things unfold,
(07:22):
far more easily than we than we think. Is this a lesson in life for everyone or is it just a lesson in life for people that are,
you know,
living on the edge trying to the dance between work and life balance?
I think it's for everyone and it's it's different for everyone that certainly I've worked with. One of the things that we do value as a society is hard work and that's really good,
(07:48):
except that we don't
believe in the value of rest.
As an elite athlete, rest is a a part, an ingredient of success.
If you don't rest, you don't build muscle, you don't build your endurance. And so the more that we can help people see that,
pushing and struggling is resistance, and resistance is always the thing in the way of getting what you want. I read one of your posts and you're talking about
(08:16):
outliers,
and I thought it was quite brilliant the way you talked about
the resistance they face in organizations. Can you explain that a little bit?
The people who are
just naturally really innovative, really progressive, really wanna change the world,
there are so many systems in corporations
and in
(08:37):
governments
that don't
tolerate them well, that's those systems weren't designed for these people. And so they tend to kinda push them out or slow them down or shut them up.
That is going to be the key to unlocking our way forward
is to really support those innovative,
original
(08:57):
thinkers
who
are willing to disrupt systems and do things differently
in service of growth and expansion,
helping them to do that without it
destroying them and making them discouraged and frustrated and
tired of be of hitting up against walls, that to me is gonna be what really transforms our way forward. So as you're starting to gain these observations, and I would say almost philosophy,
(09:26):
how do you bring that to a CEO
who might be wanting immediate results?
When I can help someone see that they have a mind
and that that mind is like a computer with programs,
and there are programs like scarcity
and insecurity
(09:46):
and fear and urgency.
And they can see that those programs are just computer programs that were created
well before you had a say in what was going into
your mind, you know, when you were a little kid.
When you can see them as a program playing out and not something you have to respond to or react to, it's not yours,
(10:08):
then you can kinda let that program
filter into the background
and not give it all of your attention
and, instead, focus on the state of mind you're in because we know that there are only 2 states that that mind is in. 1 is powerful
and one is more powerless, more primal, more distorted.
(10:29):
When we hear programs like insecurity,
I'm not enough. This is not moving too fast. I'm afraid we're gonna lose that deal.
Those are all telling you that your your state of mind is dropped and that you're not thinking smart,
that you're not accessing everything that you've got at your disposal,
and that that is going to hurt the outcome that you want. And so it's waking you up to
(10:53):
feelings are really telling me which state of mind I'm in. And if I wanna be able to tackle that situation,
the moment I can get some zoom out from it,
let my state of mind rise a little bit, the smarter
I'm gonna be able to be to actually look at what are the options, what are the possibilities.
(11:14):
It's literally like going up in an elevator and looking out at miles and miles of land versus being stuck in a basement where all you can see is a a dark wall and a and grimy floors. There's a lot of people in the world.
They're almost unhoused. Their their family's unfed. They're struggling. I have to believe that the state of mind that they
(11:35):
feel every day that there's a bill that comes in the mail they're not sure they can pay is powerless. So is there a switch or is there a way that we can
change our mindset? Maybe not. There's no magic wand solution, but there's a way we can approach life in a better way. And it's
really important for people to get curious because this is not me saying you should do this. Because when you're in that kind of a situation,
(11:57):
the last thing you want is for someone to tell you that you're creating your experience
with your state of mind. Because it's like, no, no. It I can see it. It's right there. But it is
energy.
And the more that they resist it with that powerless mind, the more you see the same thing. It's literally
(12:19):
a a loop. It's not about changing their thinking. It's finding a way to actually
appreciate the things that are going well. And that in and of itself will bring you more things that are going well.
Simple things. The moment that we turn our attention
to
the things that are going wrong, we get more of them. When I believe that I can't afford to pay my rent, it will come true. It is about
(12:46):
truly changing what we believe is possible for us. Not a mantra,
not, you know, repeating
things over and over, but really changing the focus that we've got, not zoomed in to the problem, but zooming out, being able to see
from a different perspective. It it it is absolutely transformational.
Oprah talked a lot about it when she read the book, The Secret. Is this sort of is this somewhat what you're talking about as well, that just this sense of positivity and possibility
(13:16):
can actually manifest
into reality?
There's a sense that manifesting is making something that doesn't exist come to come into existence. And that's not what I understand it to be. Well, how I understand it is that when you
tell your yourself that you want something and you're clear about what you want,
you tell your brain
(13:38):
to filter in that.
So our brain has something called the reticular activating system,
and it's what chooses from the 1,000,000 bits of data
that we get every second.
It chooses which of the 100 it will filter in. And so when I say,
I want a yellow car,
(13:58):
every yellow car in my experience starts to get filtered in.
It was always there.
I just didn't include it in the bits of data. And so all it is is we are
aligning ourselves
to that so that our
brain can help us to notice the things around us that will actually line us up with those synchronicities, with the people that you didn't know were gonna come and talk to you about a certain thing at a certain time. And it just led to something really incredible
(14:29):
because we're now aware of the things that will help us rather than focusing on all this stuff that is harming us, that is that is in our way. What advice do you give to people that put up this resistance because of the circumstances they're in and they're really focusing
on the wet cement they're standing
in the basement
(14:50):
when really if they just put their head up and looked around,
they would see that there's much more much more things happening in their favor. What advice can you give someone that really
has had it tough for a long, long time? It it is a matter of getting curious because there's no amount of believing what I say that it's gonna convince a person
that that is true. But the moment they get curious about
(15:13):
where their experience is coming from and how they feel,
when you feel good,
do more of that.
When you feel
that sense of the program running insecurity, can't pay my rent,
that's when
you notice that, if you can shift
it. If I want more abundance in my life,
(15:34):
I need to look at the abundance that's there, as little as it is in that moment.
What is going well?
Spend more time focused on that and it will build just because
you are welcoming more of that to be filtered into your experience. You're not you're not magically creating it, but you start to see the
(15:56):
conversation that will lead to a better paying job that will lead to being, you know, have more income coming in.
We come back. What Jennifer offers,
you and me and everybody in our lives
are truly
lessons in life that matter.
(16:20):
Hi. It's Soni Chapman, host of Chatter That Matters. A big shout out to RBC for sponsoring the RBC Canadian Women Entrepreneur Awards and shining an important spotlight
on Canada's most impactful women, the ones who have demonstrated excellence both locally and globally. Canada's economy and our local communities need more women entrepreneurs to drive growth and positive social change. We'll all be better for it. Women entrepreneurs,
(16:44):
they matter to Canada and they matter to RBC.
I started to see that I had the ability
to help the people that I was working with unlock the potential. And then that was repeated in each role with each CEO that I was with that I was able to listen in a different way as to what was possible and just help remove the blocks of resistance from it.
(17:11):
My guest today is Jennifer Laidlaw.
And if you're looking at a resume, words like leader, advisor, coach,
strategic innovation, and change management would roar through. But I spent time with Jennifer,
got to know her, and the way I would describe her is someone who has a positive and profound impact on humanity.
Let's bring it back to you now, someone that is gaining this insight. You're getting this philosophy. You're realizing now that you can be of immense value to other people.
(17:40):
How do you temper
this passion
so that you are finding time to rest? You're finding time to recharge so that you can continue to be better at what you do versus just doing more of it. It's a program that continues to run, and I am just a lot better at realize at recognizing it now. It's looking for the evidence, collecting the evidence that rest actually leads to
(18:04):
a smarter way of thinking of something, a new idea,
clarity on, an issue or a problem.
The more I slow down and
can really be present,
especially with my clients,
it just is an entirely different outcome with them. What's a good day's work for you? And you go at the end of the day, you know, in the past working the farm, it would have might have been your a nod from your dad saying that you did great work today. But for you, how do you know that you've accomplished anything? Because it's it's you're working on such intangibles.
(18:37):
It's seeing the transformation,
and and it happens
really quickly when people are willing to explore and get curious.
They often come to me with, I want to achieve this.
And then 2 months later, they're like, okay, so this is going well, but my relationship with my husband or my wife is entirely different. My health, I feel so much better.
(19:01):
I'm, you know, so much more relaxed. Like, all of these other things happen as a result just because they're in a different state of mind more of the time. And it is the impact of seeing the transformation,
seeing the
the promotion, seeing the solution for that intractable business problem. Do
they ever get to a point where
(19:22):
they can do it independent of you? Because it strikes me as you're a bit of a Yoda. And Luke Skywalker,
every once in a while, needs some Yoda to cut convince them that he can do it. Or do they get to the point where they're going,
thank you for joining me in my journey in life. I think I'm now in a position where I can move forward with the skills I've learned and the curiosity I've found through it. I have several clients that where we touch base once a month. It's more of a reset
(19:49):
and getting them back on track.
And then it could go months. There are lots of people who
find it
so compelling that they wanna be in this conversation on a more regular basis. And so that I've been exploring how to do that in a meaningful way with people where they can sort of tap in and get what they want and then go on with their day. Because it's just a it's a level set. It's a reset. It's reminding
(20:12):
reminding you that you've got this in you. It's it has nothing to do with me. I'm just a reflection. I can show it show it to you what's inside you. Do you ever get exhausted doing this? Because it's it would strike me that each time you press play in front of a client, whether it's a webinar or live,
must take a lot to hold that mirror in front of people.
(20:33):
I'm so
zoomed into that them
that it's almost like meditating for me. I actually have more energy when I get when I finish with clients than I had before because I have none of the the programming happening that tends to
tire us out, the chatter that doesn't matter.
I put a post out talking about youth unemployment now at 14%.
(20:55):
Students this year, their unemployment level was almost 50%.
This is a generation that just came through a pandemic, and I think it's a crisis. I have to believe there's a lot of parents saying,
what will ever happen to my
kids?
What advice can you give parents who feel their kids are losing faith in their ability to even grab on to the lowest rung of the ladder?
(21:15):
Well, state of mind is obviously critical. And and to the extent that kids can focus on what they want, not on what they don't want, that's where the power is.
What excites them? What do they love to do?
Really getting
good at that, doing it in any form possible, whether it's paid or unpaid,
that's gonna make them attractive to all kinds of of companies that will want to work with and and leverage whatever they have to offer.
(21:43):
How can
I create something of value to the world
and make it my own and make it unique? And,
it doesn't have to fit everyone's needs. It just has to be something that you love to do and that you're good at and that you're committed
to and passionate about
and see that possibility in your future. And, Jennifer, how about in a household where
(22:07):
one person might be positive
and ambitious and excited and energized,
but within the family unit, there's a lot of negativity,
almost pulling them back, much like you talked about at the outlier in an organization
finding that resistance.
It is in focusing on creating. We we are very powerful creators,
(22:30):
but we can
because of the the chatter of the mind,
we can be
on a program that says that I can't and I don't want. I don't want this. I don't want that. I don't want to be in a house with all this fighting.
The more that they can focus on the things that they want and spend their time and energy in the pursuit of those things
(22:50):
and just let the other stuff fade into the background to the extent possible,
sometimes that's when
people
are able to get that clarity because they are letting the noise
fall away.
What I'd love to do is figure out is how can I help you get that voice out there? Because
I think that this message is probably one of the most important pest messages that people have to hear right here and right now
(23:13):
because they just feel that, why bother if the climate's gonna burn our planet up or there's gonna be a nuclear war? I can't get a job. AI is gonna take away my job. And they're just hit with this every day inside this pinball machine to the point where they tilt. And you you look at someone like even Michael Jordan, who was told, like, I don't you don't have the skills for basketball.
(23:35):
We
think our beliefs are true,
and they become true.
But you can create a new belief. And what he did was
decide that
he didn't need to be born
an elite level basketball player, that he would become one.
That decision
became his belief, and then that was something that his mind helped him
(24:00):
to get to. And that's true for anyone in any situation that we're never in
despair
every minute or every second of the day.
So it's just identifying
when you let your state of mind go up just for a second,
getting aware of that moment,
what's actually possible in that moment, and trying to milk that moment for everything you've got so that you're you're taking that 2 seconds a day to 10 to 20 to 5 minutes
(24:31):
to 2 hours.
The more time we spend in that state of mind,
the more that's possible for us, and the easier it is for us to to be in that and to leverage that state of mind. And what about relationships?
How important is it for you to find someone in your life
that believes in you
and encourages
(24:51):
you
versus wants to continue?
When we're young, it's so much more
important
because
we're just sort of figuring out ourselves and the world. But the reality is, is that the moment that we realize that we've got everything
in us,
that we don't need anything, I like to think of it as a like, we're we're diamonds
(25:14):
inside.
It's a tricky question because when we're young, we're told
who we are. It's really important for us to realize that that is a mistaken identity.
That that's a created fabricated
identity
and that you can be who you want to be,
and you can live from that place.
(25:34):
And the more you do it, the more powerful and and more and more potential that you've got available to you.
If I was in a session with you right now, what are your thoughts and what I should be doing?
I am fascinated by
your genuine
desire
for a better Canada
(25:55):
and for better experiences for all Canadians.
And I would love to support
that work
from the perspective of a powerful state of mind versus the urgency and the problem piece, which which is really difficult to navigate. But once you do it, I would say Martin Luther King did this with his dream speech.
(26:20):
It was not
life is crap and we need to fix it. It was, I have a dream. I see
something different.
And I think the extent to which you see
a powerful,
prosperous
Canada,
the more you are locked into that future
(26:41):
and allow the distraction of the crap along the way
to fade into the background, I think it's your superpower
to be able to just stay focused on that prize
and not let all of the naysayers
pull it down. So my last question is, we're driving on that foggy road, and I'm confident you got the next 100 yards and the next 100 yards covered.
(27:05):
Where do you see yourself at the end of that road? I'm really hopeful
that we can get more and more people
to see what's possible for them and really
live the life that of their dreams with ease. Because we think ease is a
a place to get to, but ease is the most
(27:25):
important ingredient
in getting what you want. It is always the path forward.
There's evidence of that everywhere. I see
really hardworking people
who are working harder and harder and harder
and getting not much further ahead and I see
people who are
slowed down,
enjoying life,
(27:47):
making good decisions, and are getting
further and further ahead. So, we have evidence that it's, that's the way it works. But we
need someone to help us point us in the right direction.
That comes from within us, not from somewhere else.
Jennifer, I wanna end with my 3 takeaways.
And the first one is when you talked about
(28:09):
loving
ambiguity,
figuring things out. There's excitement and energy and positivity when you figure stuff out as opposed to being overpowered by it. I think the second thing is this whole concept of resistance
and how easily today we're turning into resistance and we're accepting resistance.
What you convinced me more than anything else is this is how we're programming our brain, and if we can just figure a way
(28:33):
to not listen to that and tune into a channel
that's not about resistance, but about desired outcome, and it's about pursuit, and it's about passion
and positivity,
how magical it would be.
And the final thing is when I said, you know, how do you know it's working? When you said,
it's when people become curious,
which means they have an appetite. They have an itch.
(28:56):
They want more again. They're climb on this earth, which is so finite. They wanna restage it, and I think for all of that and more,
I am just delighted
that you're part of chat of the maps.
Thank you so much.
Once again, a special thanks to RBC for supporting chat of the matters.
It's Tony Chapman.
(29:16):
Thanks for listening, and let's chat soon.
Now throughout my life, I've I've noticed a curious pattern.
I seem to meet the right people at the right time,
often when I need them most.
Coincidence perhaps, maybe it's luck.
Or is there something deeper at play?
A mystery to life that I don't quite understand,
but the older I get, the more I believe in it.
(00:27):
This cosmic choreography where timing and fate and intention
intertwine.
Some call it flow, others might call it karma, but I've come to believe that when you put your dreams and desires into the universe
with sincerity and clarity,
something remarkable often happens.
Your intentions become magnetic,
and they attract people and opportunities
(00:49):
that help you get to where you wanna go. One of the things that we do value as a society is hard work, and that's really good. It
One of the things
that we do value as a society is hard work, and that's really good, except that we don't
believe in the value of rest.
That's how I'm gonna introduce my guest today, Jennifer Laidlaw.
She actually reached out to me. She's a fan of the podcast,
(01:10):
follows me on LinkedIn, and we sat down and had lunch. And I walked away and realized I was in the company
as someone who had the ability
to change individuals
and even the world for the better. The people who are
just naturally really innovative, really progressive,
really want to change the world.
(01:31):
There are so many systems in corporations
and in
governments
that don't
tolerate them well. And so they tend to kinda push them out or slow them down or shut them up. That is going to be the key to unlocking our way forward.
Someone had that foundation
of early childhood and work ethic
(01:52):
who came through her own personal health crisises
with some unbelievable
lessons in life
about herself and others, and has spent her time working with individuals
to get them to push through this resistance, this negativity,
these barriers that prevent us from going where we know we would love to go. When you hear all of the stories of the people who have hit rock bottom,
(02:15):
that's always the story that they tell. There was something that shifted in them and they saw past all the things that were going wrong into possibility.
And the lessons you're gonna get today are not just for CEOs. They're not just for
entrepreneurs.
They're for the kids sitting in the basement wondering if they're ever gonna get to grab onto that career ladder. I think it's for the parents that are worried every day about the next bill that comes at them. There's lessons in terms of just our collective
(02:45):
consciousness in terms of going after what's possible
versus what we continually feel is impossible.
With all of that in mind, it is my great honor
to
introduce Jennifer Laidlaw. Jennifer, welcome to Chatter That Matters.
(03:08):
Thank you so much, Tony. I'm so excited to be here with you.
You know, Jennifer, from what I understand, you grew up in the small farm. You were,
you know, like a lot of families on the farm. You were there to work.
You had fun. Everything was going well. You became this champion with horses and showing horses,
And all of that brought you into a university that had seemed to have nothing to do with agriculture.
(03:32):
So talk to me about how you took the lessons from the farm
to university.
Where did it lead you afterwards? Do you found a path in your life
that was less about horses and fences and much more about
removing fences and letting people discover who they are and why they matter? I think it goes back to the fact that I did learn
(03:55):
and develop comfort with
not knowing
how. And so I was able to use curiosity. I didn't know what to do at university,
so I I signed up for, you know, a general program,
and it was it was in the process of discovering what I liked,
what kind of caught my interest, and
(04:15):
made me feel inspired,
to learn more and and develop and grow
and expand.
It all unfolded without a playbook.
We, as humans, think there must be a playbook for everything. The more we can
spend
in a powerful state of mind, the more that playbook emerges for us one step at a time. It is just like fog and driving in fog. You can't see all your way to your destination.
(04:45):
You can see a 100 meters in front of you. And if you're willing and committed to drive those 100 meters, you get to see a 100 more.
Ambiguity became one of my superpowers throughout my career. And when we were faced with change or transformation,
I was always excited about the ambiguity, the not knowing, because it spoke to me. It was it was potential and possibility.
(05:07):
You've got so many things happening for you. But in your twenties thirties,
you face significant
challenges.
I didn't know how to how to rest. So I kept very busy and I loved it, and I had incredible work. Like, I found my work in the Ontario public service really quite intoxicating. It was such huge transformation and change, and I just got so involved with it
(05:31):
that I lost sight of me and and my health and my well-being. The success was,
so prominent. And I I kind of refer to it as, like, I was a more monster. It was, like, more, more, more, more. I had stroke level high blood pressure
at 33.
Did you think your bad health having to finally learn how to listen to yourself
(05:53):
helps you with the superpower in listening to others? It never really bothered me that I had so much illness as much as it bothered me that
my experience was that it was getting in the way of what I wanted to achieve.
Realizing
having that insight that in fact, it was the problem
was transformative
that I could get a lot done
(06:15):
without all of the, you know, shaking the snow globe. And I could be a lot more powerful and do a lot more incredible things
when I was slowed down, when I was listening, when I cared about what state of mind I was coming from.
So I wanna draw these 2 parallel tracks for the rest of the interview because it you're in a career where you're doing more and more and more.
(06:37):
Your health is giving you less and less and less. And coming through this understanding, to me, it also changed your approach in life that you started to go from,
you know, maybe fixing things to saying, how can I help others get to where they wanna go? Resistance became the thing that I became aware of was the problem.
Efforting
(06:58):
is great when
it's not grind and it's not struggle.
It's really important to get to being in a powerful state of mind where you can let ease and flow
actually happen naturally that naturally, that things emerge in a much, much more direct way that the synchronicities,
the things that the conversations that come up, and things unfold,
(07:22):
far more easily than we than we think. Is this a lesson in life for everyone or is it just a lesson in life for people that are,
you know,
living on the edge trying to the dance between work and life balance?
I think it's for everyone and it's it's different for everyone that certainly I've worked with. One of the things that we do value as a society is hard work and that's really good,
(07:48):
except that we don't
believe in the value of rest.
As an elite athlete, rest is a a part, an ingredient of success.
If you don't rest, you don't build muscle, you don't build your endurance. And so the more that we can help people see that,
pushing and struggling is resistance, and resistance is always the thing in the way of getting what you want. I read one of your posts and you're talking about
(08:16):
outliers,
and I thought it was quite brilliant the way you talked about
the resistance they face in organizations. Can you explain that a little bit?
The people who are
just naturally really innovative, really progressive, really wanna change the world,
there are so many systems in corporations
and in
(08:37):
governments
that don't
tolerate them well, that's those systems weren't designed for these people. And so they tend to kinda push them out or slow them down or shut them up.
That is going to be the key to unlocking our way forward
is to really support those innovative,
original
(08:57):
thinkers
who
are willing to disrupt systems and do things differently
in service of growth and expansion,
helping them to do that without it
destroying them and making them discouraged and frustrated and
tired of be of hitting up against walls, that to me is gonna be what really transforms our way forward. So as you're starting to gain these observations, and I would say almost philosophy,
(09:26):
how do you bring that to a CEO
who might be wanting immediate results?
When I can help someone see that they have a mind
and that that mind is like a computer with programs,
and there are programs like scarcity
and insecurity
(09:46):
and fear and urgency.
And they can see that those programs are just computer programs that were created
well before you had a say in what was going into
your mind, you know, when you were a little kid.
When you can see them as a program playing out and not something you have to respond to or react to, it's not yours,
(10:08):
then you can kinda let that program
filter into the background
and not give it all of your attention
and, instead, focus on the state of mind you're in because we know that there are only 2 states that that mind is in. 1 is powerful
and one is more powerless, more primal, more distorted.
(10:29):
When we hear programs like insecurity,
I'm not enough. This is not moving too fast. I'm afraid we're gonna lose that deal.
Those are all telling you that your your state of mind is dropped and that you're not thinking smart,
that you're not accessing everything that you've got at your disposal,
and that that is going to hurt the outcome that you want. And so it's waking you up to
(10:53):
feelings are really telling me which state of mind I'm in. And if I wanna be able to tackle that situation,
the moment I can get some zoom out from it,
let my state of mind rise a little bit, the smarter
I'm gonna be able to be to actually look at what are the options, what are the possibilities.
(11:14):
It's literally like going up in an elevator and looking out at miles and miles of land versus being stuck in a basement where all you can see is a a dark wall and a and grimy floors. There's a lot of people in the world.
They're almost unhoused. Their their family's unfed. They're struggling. I have to believe that the state of mind that they
(11:35):
feel every day that there's a bill that comes in the mail they're not sure they can pay is powerless. So is there a switch or is there a way that we can
change our mindset? Maybe not. There's no magic wand solution, but there's a way we can approach life in a better way. And it's
really important for people to get curious because this is not me saying you should do this. Because when you're in that kind of a situation,
(11:57):
the last thing you want is for someone to tell you that you're creating your experience
with your state of mind. Because it's like, no, no. It I can see it. It's right there. But it is
energy.
And the more that they resist it with that powerless mind, the more you see the same thing. It's literally
(12:19):
a a loop. It's not about changing their thinking. It's finding a way to actually
appreciate the things that are going well. And that in and of itself will bring you more things that are going well.
Simple things. The moment that we turn our attention
to
the things that are going wrong, we get more of them. When I believe that I can't afford to pay my rent, it will come true. It is about
(12:46):
truly changing what we believe is possible for us. Not a mantra,
not, you know, repeating
things over and over, but really changing the focus that we've got, not zoomed in to the problem, but zooming out, being able to see
from a different perspective. It it it is absolutely transformational.
Oprah talked a lot about it when she read the book, The Secret. Is this sort of is this somewhat what you're talking about as well, that just this sense of positivity and possibility
(13:16):
can actually manifest
into reality?
There's a sense that manifesting is making something that doesn't exist come to come into existence. And that's not what I understand it to be. Well, how I understand it is that when you
tell your yourself that you want something and you're clear about what you want,
you tell your brain
(13:38):
to filter in that.
So our brain has something called the reticular activating system,
and it's what chooses from the 1,000,000 bits of data
that we get every second.
It chooses which of the 100 it will filter in. And so when I say,
I want a yellow car,
(13:58):
every yellow car in my experience starts to get filtered in.
It was always there.
I just didn't include it in the bits of data. And so all it is is we are
aligning ourselves
to that so that our
brain can help us to notice the things around us that will actually line us up with those synchronicities, with the people that you didn't know were gonna come and talk to you about a certain thing at a certain time. And it just led to something really incredible
(14:29):
because we're now aware of the things that will help us rather than focusing on all this stuff that is harming us, that is that is in our way. What advice do you give to people that put up this resistance because of the circumstances they're in and they're really focusing
on the wet cement they're standing
in the basement
(14:50):
when really if they just put their head up and looked around,
they would see that there's much more much more things happening in their favor. What advice can you give someone that really
has had it tough for a long, long time? It it is a matter of getting curious because there's no amount of believing what I say that it's gonna convince a person
that that is true. But the moment they get curious about
(15:13):
where their experience is coming from and how they feel,
when you feel good,
do more of that.
When you feel
that sense of the program running insecurity, can't pay my rent,
that's when
you notice that, if you can shift
it. If I want more abundance in my life,
(15:34):
I need to look at the abundance that's there, as little as it is in that moment.
What is going well?
Spend more time focused on that and it will build just because
you are welcoming more of that to be filtered into your experience. You're not you're not magically creating it, but you start to see the
(15:56):
conversation that will lead to a better paying job that will lead to being, you know, have more income coming in.
We come back. What Jennifer offers,
you and me and everybody in our lives
are truly
lessons in life that matter.
(16:20):
Hi. It's Soni Chapman, host of Chatter That Matters. A big shout out to RBC for sponsoring the RBC Canadian Women Entrepreneur Awards and shining an important spotlight
on Canada's most impactful women, the ones who have demonstrated excellence both locally and globally. Canada's economy and our local communities need more women entrepreneurs to drive growth and positive social change. We'll all be better for it. Women entrepreneurs,
(16:44):
they matter to Canada and they matter to RBC.
I started to see that I had the ability
to help the people that I was working with unlock the potential. And then that was repeated in each role with each CEO that I was with that I was able to listen in a different way as to what was possible and just help remove the blocks of resistance from it.
(17:11):
My guest today is Jennifer Laidlaw.
And if you're looking at a resume, words like leader, advisor, coach,
strategic innovation, and change management would roar through. But I spent time with Jennifer,
got to know her, and the way I would describe her is someone who has a positive and profound impact on humanity.
Let's bring it back to you now, someone that is gaining this insight. You're getting this philosophy. You're realizing now that you can be of immense value to other people.
(17:40):
How do you temper
this passion
so that you are finding time to rest? You're finding time to recharge so that you can continue to be better at what you do versus just doing more of it. It's a program that continues to run, and I am just a lot better at realize at recognizing it now. It's looking for the evidence, collecting the evidence that rest actually leads to
(18:04):
a smarter way of thinking of something, a new idea,
clarity on, an issue or a problem.
The more I slow down and
can really be present,
especially with my clients,
it just is an entirely different outcome with them. What's a good day's work for you? And you go at the end of the day, you know, in the past working the farm, it would have might have been your a nod from your dad saying that you did great work today. But for you, how do you know that you've accomplished anything? Because it's it's you're working on such intangibles.
(18:37):
It's seeing the transformation,
and and it happens
really quickly when people are willing to explore and get curious.
They often come to me with, I want to achieve this.
And then 2 months later, they're like, okay, so this is going well, but my relationship with my husband or my wife is entirely different. My health, I feel so much better.
(19:01):
I'm, you know, so much more relaxed. Like, all of these other things happen as a result just because they're in a different state of mind more of the time. And it is the impact of seeing the transformation,
seeing the
the promotion, seeing the solution for that intractable business problem. Do
they ever get to a point where
(19:22):
they can do it independent of you? Because it strikes me as you're a bit of a Yoda. And Luke Skywalker,
every once in a while, needs some Yoda to cut convince them that he can do it. Or do they get to the point where they're going,
thank you for joining me in my journey in life. I think I'm now in a position where I can move forward with the skills I've learned and the curiosity I've found through it. I have several clients that where we touch base once a month. It's more of a reset
(19:49):
and getting them back on track.
And then it could go months. There are lots of people who
find it
so compelling that they wanna be in this conversation on a more regular basis. And so that I've been exploring how to do that in a meaningful way with people where they can sort of tap in and get what they want and then go on with their day. Because it's just a it's a level set. It's a reset. It's reminding
(20:12):
reminding you that you've got this in you. It's it has nothing to do with me. I'm just a reflection. I can show it show it to you what's inside you. Do you ever get exhausted doing this? Because it's it would strike me that each time you press play in front of a client, whether it's a webinar or live,
must take a lot to hold that mirror in front of people.
(20:33):
I'm so
zoomed into that them
that it's almost like meditating for me. I actually have more energy when I get when I finish with clients than I had before because I have none of the the programming happening that tends to
tire us out, the chatter that doesn't matter.
I put a post out talking about youth unemployment now at 14%.
(20:55):
Students this year, their unemployment level was almost 50%.
This is a generation that just came through a pandemic, and I think it's a crisis. I have to believe there's a lot of parents saying,
what will ever happen to my
kids?
What advice can you give parents who feel their kids are losing faith in their ability to even grab on to the lowest rung of the ladder?
(21:15):
Well, state of mind is obviously critical. And and to the extent that kids can focus on what they want, not on what they don't want, that's where the power is.
What excites them? What do they love to do?
Really getting
good at that, doing it in any form possible, whether it's paid or unpaid,
that's gonna make them attractive to all kinds of of companies that will want to work with and and leverage whatever they have to offer.
(21:43):
How can
I create something of value to the world
and make it my own and make it unique? And,
it doesn't have to fit everyone's needs. It just has to be something that you love to do and that you're good at and that you're committed
to and passionate about
and see that possibility in your future. And, Jennifer, how about in a household where
(22:07):
one person might be positive
and ambitious and excited and energized,
but within the family unit, there's a lot of negativity,
almost pulling them back, much like you talked about at the outlier in an organization
finding that resistance.
It is in focusing on creating. We we are very powerful creators,
(22:30):
but we can
because of the the chatter of the mind,
we can be
on a program that says that I can't and I don't want. I don't want this. I don't want that. I don't want to be in a house with all this fighting.
The more that they can focus on the things that they want and spend their time and energy in the pursuit of those things
(22:50):
and just let the other stuff fade into the background to the extent possible,
sometimes that's when
people
are able to get that clarity because they are letting the noise
fall away.
What I'd love to do is figure out is how can I help you get that voice out there? Because
I think that this message is probably one of the most important pest messages that people have to hear right here and right now
(23:13):
because they just feel that, why bother if the climate's gonna burn our planet up or there's gonna be a nuclear war? I can't get a job. AI is gonna take away my job. And they're just hit with this every day inside this pinball machine to the point where they tilt. And you you look at someone like even Michael Jordan, who was told, like, I don't you don't have the skills for basketball.
(23:35):
We
think our beliefs are true,
and they become true.
But you can create a new belief. And what he did was
decide that
he didn't need to be born
an elite level basketball player, that he would become one.
That decision
became his belief, and then that was something that his mind helped him
(24:00):
to get to. And that's true for anyone in any situation that we're never in
despair
every minute or every second of the day.
So it's just identifying
when you let your state of mind go up just for a second,
getting aware of that moment,
what's actually possible in that moment, and trying to milk that moment for everything you've got so that you're you're taking that 2 seconds a day to 10 to 20 to 5 minutes
(24:31):
to 2 hours.
The more time we spend in that state of mind,
the more that's possible for us, and the easier it is for us to to be in that and to leverage that state of mind. And what about relationships?
How important is it for you to find someone in your life
that believes in you
and encourages
(24:51):
you
versus wants to continue?
When we're young, it's so much more
important
because
we're just sort of figuring out ourselves and the world. But the reality is, is that the moment that we realize that we've got everything
in us,
that we don't need anything, I like to think of it as a like, we're we're diamonds
(25:14):
inside.
It's a tricky question because when we're young, we're told
who we are. It's really important for us to realize that that is a mistaken identity.
That that's a created fabricated
identity
and that you can be who you want to be,
and you can live from that place.
(25:34):
And the more you do it, the more powerful and and more and more potential that you've got available to you.
If I was in a session with you right now, what are your thoughts and what I should be doing?
I am fascinated by
your genuine
desire
for a better Canada
(25:55):
and for better experiences for all Canadians.
And I would love to support
that work
from the perspective of a powerful state of mind versus the urgency and the problem piece, which which is really difficult to navigate. But once you do it, I would say Martin Luther King did this with his dream speech.
(26:20):
It was not
life is crap and we need to fix it. It was, I have a dream. I see
something different.
And I think the extent to which you see
a powerful,
prosperous
Canada,
the more you are locked into that future
(26:41):
and allow the distraction of the crap along the way
to fade into the background, I think it's your superpower
to be able to just stay focused on that prize
and not let all of the naysayers
pull it down. So my last question is, we're driving on that foggy road, and I'm confident you got the next 100 yards and the next 100 yards covered.
(27:05):
Where do you see yourself at the end of that road? I'm really hopeful
that we can get more and more people
to see what's possible for them and really
live the life that of their dreams with ease. Because we think ease is a
a place to get to, but ease is the most
(27:25):
important ingredient
in getting what you want. It is always the path forward.
There's evidence of that everywhere. I see
really hardworking people
who are working harder and harder and harder
and getting not much further ahead and I see
people who are
slowed down,
enjoying life,
(27:47):
making good decisions, and are getting
further and further ahead. So, we have evidence that it's, that's the way it works. But we
need someone to help us point us in the right direction.
That comes from within us, not from somewhere else.
Jennifer, I wanna end with my 3 takeaways.
And the first one is when you talked about
(28:09):
loving
ambiguity,
figuring things out. There's excitement and energy and positivity when you figure stuff out as opposed to being overpowered by it. I think the second thing is this whole concept of resistance
and how easily today we're turning into resistance and we're accepting resistance.
What you convinced me more than anything else is this is how we're programming our brain, and if we can just figure a way
(28:33):
to not listen to that and tune into a channel
that's not about resistance, but about desired outcome, and it's about pursuit, and it's about passion
and positivity,
how magical it would be.
And the final thing is when I said, you know, how do you know it's working? When you said,
it's when people become curious,
which means they have an appetite. They have an itch.
(28:56):
They want more again. They're climb on this earth, which is so finite. They wanna restage it, and I think for all of that and more,
I am just delighted
that you're part of chat of the maps.
Thank you so much.
Once again, a special thanks to RBC for supporting chat of the matters.
It's Tony Chapman.
(29:16):
Thanks for listening, and let's chat soon.
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