February 27, 2025 • 32 mins
We all judge books by their covers—but what happens when the cover tells one story, and the pages inside reveal another? This week on Chatter That Matters, I sit down with Mike Power, a testament to resilience. Mike appeared to have it all together: a top strategist, a two-time Boston Marathon runner, and a sharp conversationalist with wicked humour. But beneath that polished exterior was a battle with addiction, a journey to rock bottom, and a burning desire for reinvention. Mike shares his deeply personal story of losing control to alcohol and drugs, facing a devastating cancer diagnosis, and rebuilding trust with those who had lost faith in him. This is a raw, honest conversation about struggle, survival, and transformation.
But Mike’s story isn’t just about overcoming darkness—but unlocking potential. Now, with his book Flow, he’s guiding others to find their path to possibility, using a mix of deep reflection, mindset shifts, and practical steps to turn dreams into reality. We dive into his philosophy on manifesting a life you truly want, the energy state that allows us to break free from limitations, and why so many of us are more powerful than we realize. Whether facing obstacles or simply looking to improve your circumstances, this episode will enlighten you and challenge you to rethink what’s possible. Don’t miss it!
To learn more about Mike Power, his book and the workshop. https://www.flow-manifest.com/mikepowerflow
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
We all know the saying you can't judge a book by its cover. It's a
phrase that reminds us not to make assumptions based on outward appearances.
It sort of tells you to look deeper to understand the true nature, value, of
quality of something or someone. A very common theme
you'll hear from addicts or or alcoholics like myself is we
kinda grew up feeling outside of life. The expression we use is
(00:24):
I felt less than. When I first met Mike Power, my guest this week, and
I was impressed by his cover. As physically fit as you can get, he's run
the Boston marathon twice. He's a strategist, great
conversationalist, a wicked sense of humor. It's one of those dry humor as they plant
a seed and they really hope you discover things.
As I open the book, as we often do when you go from casual acquaintances
(00:46):
to friends, as you dive deeper into their lives, you realize that there's
always much more behind the cover. An insidious thing
that started out real good as a nice, you know, way to accentuate
elements of my personality that were already there, and
then eroded them over time. Mike's an addict, a cancer
survivor. He's a big brain who's looking to unpack some of the secrets of the
(01:08):
universe, but also trying to fit into a world where superficiality and
skipping across the surface of life is where most people like to
be and play. I look back at my life. It's like those things that
have occurred in my life were at one point dreams, and now they're here.
So today, we're gonna open up the book on the story of Mike Power and
we're gonna understand how flow and manifestation not only matters
(01:30):
to him but also to you.
Hi. It's Tony Chapman. Thank you for listening to Chatter That Matters presented
by RBC. If you can, please subscribe to the podcast. And
ratings
(01:55):
Mike Powart, welcome to, Chatter That Matters. Hey. Thanks, Tony. Nice
to be here. When I asked you why you wanted to do the show, you
said this to me. I've come to see my purpose in life is
to help and serve the 20 year old me. That everything I've learned
and everything I've put in my knapsack could be of immense value to
summon this maybe looking for the answers I was looking
(02:17):
for and couldn't find. So, Mike, we're gonna get
into what you were like as a 20 year old, but I think it's
always important to even rewind the tape a little further.
And talk to me a little bit about your childhood, who
you were and how you saw the world. Being out you you
introduced me as an addict and alcoholic and and I've one who's
(02:40):
been through recovery. If you're at all familiar with those circles and
and if you've been exposed to any of that, which, you know, a lot of
people haven't, A very common theme you'll hear
from addicts or or alcoholics like myself is we kinda grew up
feeling outside of life. The expression we use is I felt less
than. I judged my insides by everyone else's outsides.
(03:02):
You know, everyone else seemed to have got the instruction manual. They had figured
it out. They were acting, you know, out in the world
expressing themselves, playing sports, seeming
to fit in, making friends seemed easy. And, of course, this was
this was just my perception as a young man. As I got older, I
realized that wasn't at all necessarily true. I knew I was
(03:24):
smart. Like, that part, I I kind of tuned into right away, and it
wasn't a boastful kind of smart. I just sort of saw things. I noticed things.
I was extremely sensitive, but also in that same
sensitivity, I was objective, and I could see things. I I was an only
child. I had good loving parents, middle
class, a nervous kid, very self conscious growing up. I love what
(03:47):
you say that, you know, I judge myself by everybody else's
outside. And I think now with these false social media stereotypes
and everybody living the perfect life and the sense of
constant FOMO, we're creating a lot more Mike Powers
to sort of judge the cover of these books as opposed to
really reflecting on what really is happening when you open the book. It's the information
(04:09):
age, so we find out and hear about almost everything now. So
I can't speak, empirically about this, but, you know, the rise of
of suicides, of young people, you know,
cyberbullying, and the effects that that can have. You know, there's
probably a lot more people if they're if they were designed and
thrown out into the world as the person that I was
(04:31):
exposed to that, I I think it would have just accentuated it and
accelerated it for someone like me at that sensitive age.
You started to find some escape or at least feeling that you could fit
into a jigsaw puzzle through alcohol or drugs. I mean, how did that all come
about? I I remember very early on in in what I
call my drinking career that I go, this is it. This is the
(04:53):
stuff. So now I had this suit of armor, and I had
this energy, elixir that I could take
into my body. And now I could do all those things that I once only
imagined doing. And I'm not exaggerating, but, like, the idea of
dancing in public? No. That wasn't something I was gonna
do as a as a young teenager. Going up and talking
(05:15):
to to strangers, you know, whether they'd be just, you know, dudes you
were trying to get to know or, you know, the cool kids, but most
importantly, girls, I didn't have the, you know, self confidence
or the tenacity to imagine doing that. Not only was I
had the courage to do these things, I started becoming this version of myself that
I didn't know was even possible. I started to become one of the cooler
(05:37):
kids. You know, later in reflection, I called it a chronic
kinda cool where it was like it was my undoing. But all
of a sudden, this superficial idea of who I could become was really
accelerated through alcohol and drugs. And, you know, and not only that,
but your drinking stories, drug stories, showed
a kind of, courage, false courage, but, you
(06:00):
know, allowed me to connect with people who saw
who were the same way. Did you ever know back then, or was
there a tipping point where it went from liquid courage to
consuming your life, you know, instead of giving you what you felt was a suit
of armor? If anything, it made you it put a target on your
back. There's a couple points that stand out, but it more felt like I was
(06:22):
circling the toilet bowl for about maybe six, seven years. Life
of rinse and repeat, you know, get up, you do it, and slowly
things, you know, the pros and cons. The cons started to outweigh the
pros. Any kind of addiction is is a kind of mental illness.
But, yeah, there's a couple standout times where I realized I'm in trouble.
And and that was with alcohol, but I was also addicted to to other
(06:44):
drugs. I was in New York City with a bunch of friends, and it was
another night of partying. And, of course, you know, everyone's partying,
but I'm probably drinking twice as much as they are. By that time,
I I developed enough stamina, resilience
that you wouldn't necessarily know that I was drunk, but I would be.
And the hangover started getting tremendous. And I remember being
(07:06):
in Manhattan somewhere downtown where at some busy store,
I started to have a panic attack. I knew it was physical a physical panic
attack because it was related to withdrawal from alcohol. And I knew
right in that moment that if I had a drink, I would get rid of
this. So I got in a cab and I went back to the place for
a stay, and I had two stiff drinks, and I felt much better. And in
(07:28):
that instant, I go, you're in trouble. You know, self knowledge will not
cure the alcoholic. I spent a lot of time after that. And in fact, I
became addicted to harder drugs in some perverted and
messed up, only an addict can think this way, attempt to get off
alcohol. You know? So it's like, well, I'll switch to this because, man, this alcohol
thing is too I can't take it anymore. I don't wanna live like this anymore.
(07:49):
So I ended up switching to something way worse for me. How did you
feel when you hit that bottom? And what's it like to realize that
you've fallen as far as you can? I'm one of those people that believe without
a bottom, you can't get better. What a lot of sort of recovery
programs try to do is raise the bottom, you know, so that you don't have
to go as deep to realize that you're there. Almost at
(08:11):
that worst moment is the exact moment when all the ingredients
start to show up that are gonna aid in your recovery. So it
was super painful to get to that bottom, and I had to burn everything to
the ground to start over again. I got to reinvent who this guy
was. The tune didn't change. I didn't change. It's just
that this thing I was looking for in my life, I was looking
(08:33):
for in the wrong places. I was looking for it through
crutches like alcohol and drugs and superficial achievements
and how I looked on the outside. So I was still looking for the same
thing, but now I started to look for it in a new place, a fresher
place, a more promising place, a more real place.
When you started to get better, did you ever fall off the wagon
(08:55):
again? Because what I understand from talking addicts, that is that hands feel
good on those rungs and you're pulling yourself up, and then you feel, well, I'm
now in control of who I am, so I can drink
responsibly. Or did you did you realize that if you even went near that, there
wouldn't be a ladder there? So by the time I got to a place where
I wanted to get well, I desperately wanted to get well. I would have done
(09:16):
anything to get better. Now I hit such a bottom that
I realized that I was in an imp prison. The gravitas of it,
the, you know, the complete powerlessness of it, I never
wanted to feel that way again. So, no, I didn't have a lot of
yearnings. You know, people would say to me, oh, Mike, you had a lot of
discipline. You had so much strength in getting sober. My personal strength had nothing
(09:38):
to do with it. It was like I'd got to a place through this bottom
of complete powerlessness and then the ultimate surrender,
to where I wanted to go, and the sort of the true spirit
inside of me. I never looked back. I'm curious that when
you're at this bottom, you're in this prison. How
long does it take you to rebuild the trust of people that used to
(10:01):
believe in you and you must have disappointed time and time
again? A lot of time in those early days, there was the boy that cried
wolf. You know, that story kept recurring to me. I go, oh my god. I'm
that boy. I'm that person now because I lied so
much that now even though I know I'm telling the truth, no one else
would necessarily believe me. So there's that rebuilding of trust. It
(10:23):
happens quicker than you think, because people can tell when you're
on solid ground again. And, you know, and because I was in early
recovery, it was the focus was less and less about other
people, and it was more about more about what was happening inside of
me. I was less living externally, and I was more living
internally. So I I allowed them and accepted their
(10:45):
lack of faith and and belief in me, and and I honoured that, and I
knew that that I I deserved it in a way. You know? And the other
thing is I ran into a guy I used to drink with in in
recovery. I went through the 12 steps of recovery, so Alcoholics
Anonymous. And he just said, Mike, I'm glad you're here.
I just want you to know the best thing I can tell you is it
(11:07):
takes a long time to get sober. And I and I learned over the next
couple years what he meant by that. There's a lot of untangling. There's a lot
of evolution and and sort of mindset and how you see, you
know, perceive yourself in life that needs to sort of be un
it needs to be undone. You know, without the liquid courage. And I
remember you sharing a story of dating who is now your life partner.
(11:29):
You're driving a van. There's a baby seat in the back. You're recovering
from a major illness. How did you ever find it
within yourself there was enough to be attracted to someone
else? We're gonna talk today about my version of manifest
and manifesting and, you know, the power of this this program that I wanna wanna
share with the world. But, you know, at the time, I may have been an
(11:51):
alcoholic, and I may have been a drug addict. And these were,
avenues that I'd went down that took me to, dead ends in
my life. But they were never me. There was a me that was
always there, unrestricted, uninhibited, you know, no
permanent damage done. So the person I, I
always was reemerged. I was more true to myself. I was
(12:13):
just being who I was, who I'd always been, and I just didn't need
the crutches anymore. My sense of fun,
my sense of, expression, my ability to make
connections and talk to people and and form personal,
relationships, all that was still there. In fact, it
was it was better than before because it was uninhibited by some of
(12:36):
my my addictive tendencies. So just before we pivot to
your book flow and where I think that the our audience is gonna get so
much value from how you've journaled and put your journey on the
paper because I think everybody is on some quest where
self reflection and improvement is part of it. You said it, and I
thought it was very profound. This is like kindergarten. It was like starting all
(12:58):
over. What was that sort of kindergarten stage
that had you start discovering that inside of Mike Power was
just this extraordinary human being? The spiritual
kindergarten, actually, the 12 step program, the the o the original author
of it, Bill Wilson, called their program that, you know, what we're
actually operating here is a spiritual kindergarten. They were using spiritual
(13:20):
principles to help people get over alcohol and drugs. This
is your start, you know, and that's a good segue into where
where our discussion's going too because, you know, the the very principles
that allowed me to get over alcohol and drugs and overcome other hardships in
my life, are also the very same principles
and energies that allow you to make fantastic things
(13:43):
happen in your life, big things happen, make dreams come true. You know? So
it's it's the same ingredients. It's the same elements, but you had to start where
you started. And where I was starting at that time was, like I
said, a a life that had been burnt to the ground, damages done,
things to be made up, money to be repaid, self identity to
be restored. So, yeah, you know, that starting place is so
(14:06):
critical. Those principles that might ladder up to greatness
one day in the very beginning have to be about
survival. And, you know, and I went through a a fair amount of time
where, you know, humility became an operative word. It's like, I don't really
know what I'm doing, but I'm willing to take direction. And, you know,
that direction for me came from forces around me and
(14:29):
outside of me and other human beings. You know? And I remember one
time I started working again, in early recovery, and and I
I got up and live with my parents again. I I'm going to get ready
to go to work, and I grabbed these two pairs of socks and they don't
match. It stumped me. I didn't know what to do. I sat
down in the bed literally scratching my head going, what do I do now?
(14:50):
And that was the state I was in. I had a sponsor. You probably heard
of those in 12 step programs. And I'd I'd say that
person saved my life. They were fantastic, and they're still
friends. We're still good friends today, and they started my journey. For
about two years, I called them every day. Somehow today I, I
still call them but I don't have any problems? Like, like it what was
(15:12):
the difference?
When we come back, Mike Power and I talk about
flow, and I mean that literally because we're gonna talk about his book, his
workshop, and how everything he's learned, he's now
applying to help others overcome their circumstances.
(15:37):
Hi. This is Tony Chapman, host of the radio show and podcast Chatter That
Matters. Did you know that only one in five youth with a mental
health illness can get access to the care they need? Well,
a big shout out to the RBC Foundation and RBC Future Launch
for supporting over 150 youth mental health organizations.
And in doing so, they help youth and their families get the care they need
(16:00):
and deserve.
I started to have a panic attack. I knew it was physical a physical panic
attack because it was related to withdrawal. And I knew right in that moment that
if I had a drink, I would get rid of this. So I got in
the cab and I went back to the place where we were staying and I
had two stiff drinks and I felt much better and in that instant, I
(16:23):
go, you're in trouble. My guest today is Mike Power,
recovering addict, cancer survivor, found himself
deeply in debt with zero prospects. He hit rock
bottom, and then he started climbing.
So let's move the conversation to this fantastic
(16:43):
book called Flow. How did it come about?
Was it more just part of your healing and your journey, or was it
truly you felt that maybe your calling now in life was to take
these circumstances you overcame? And as you said very early on
when we talked about this interview and make it available
to those people that might be looking at how to change their
(17:06):
future. I I got introduced to basic
principles, you know, in this kindergarten, that were
kinda like new, but not they're very familiar. It's like, oh, I
remember this. You know, I remember feeling this way before I diverted
my attention into living, you know, in this maximum control
world where I was gonna control every aspect of living through drugs
(17:28):
and alcohols and and success and, how I was seen
and what I looked like and how I dressed and all the things I did
that made me cool. Before that, I had a fun a different,
more fundamental sort of connection with what I would call life. You know, let's call
it the universe. It got me sober. Mindfulness
and prayer is the is the power that got me sober.
(17:50):
I just kept building on it. You know? When you're when you're done kindergarten, you
go to grade one, and you go to grade two, grade three. This started
to have all the things I'd been looking for in my other way of living.
So why wouldn't I do more of it? And I started to to go
through what what recovery circles would call a psychic change. How
I looked at myself, how I looked at life kinda went through a really
(18:12):
revolutionary new update. I devoured text.
I I read the stoics. I read
philosophy. I read, you know, Deepak Chopra, Wayne
Dyer. I became a seeker. This thing that I'd
been looking for earlier in my life, I was starting to find. And what
I would define it as is power, you know, but true power. To
(18:34):
do what? I don't know. Be happy, to feel content, to feel safe,
make up, overcome that kid who started out in
life and felt like, you know, I couldn't give an inch up. I once read
a quote that alcoholism and addiction is the doomed attempt to
control every aspect of life. You know? And then the alternative
to that was being open to life and and this
(18:57):
paradox of of striving and moving forward while at the same
time letting go. Anyway, so this this really just opened up
new worlds for me. I've thought about it. I talked about it. You
know, our our program, we deal with newcomers a lot and we try to help
other people through what we call our experience, strength, and help.
And so it's something I spoke about because people said, well, how did you do
(19:18):
this? How did this happen? And I started to notice that my life was big.
Dreams were coming coming true for me. I got
curious, and I started to make these connections with things that
I had put. You know, even in my even in my burnt to the
ground phase of life, those things were all on my wish list at some
point. There's times where I'm with my wife and I I look at her and
(19:40):
I feel like I literally dreamed her into existence. And then, well, how'd
that happen? You know, then I look at other aspects of my life and was
going through cancer, and I was at the tail end of chemo. And it was,
two weeks before Christmas, and the firm I was with,
a global marketing firm, fired me for
some trumped up reason. You know? There I was without
(20:03):
a job, approaching Christmas, not yet finished my chemo. A
few months later, I was now squarely landed in the career I'd always
dreamed of. I was a consultant. I was making twice as much
money. I was doing things that I always dreamed of doing.
Those type of connections started to fire off my mind, and I started writing about
it. And that kinda led to the program that that I'm now
(20:25):
calling flow manifest. You have your own definitions
of flow and manifestation. Because to me, those
two words I'd add mindfulness are almost like the words like excellence
two decades ago. Everybody just throws it out, puts in part of
their vernacular, but I really enjoyed how you've
compressed those words. And then when you
(20:47):
release them, they truly are this magic carpet ride of
positivity and possibility. The way I spoke about those two concepts
of flow and manifest are different, and
more expansive and sort of bigger. And I like to think even more
optimistic than the way, the rest of the world or most
people talk about those two concepts. You know, if you take manifesting,
(21:10):
you know, there's things like the secret. And and I'm not putting any of these
programs down, but they they all seem to sort of be, mystical
and, some kind of mind hack where it's like, well, if I if I
envision something bad enough, then it will come true, and I can
use the power of my mind to make it happen. I just believe that the
idea of manifestation could be even more practical than that.
(21:32):
Mind power and mindset is is definitely one part of it, but there's some
practical and methodical approaches that you can apply to your
life. The only watch out is we're not in charge always of the timetable.
You know, I can't make things happen instantly. But like I was sharing with you
a couple minutes ago, I look back at my life. It's like, those things
that have occurred in my life were at one point dreams that were just listed
(21:54):
on a piece of paper, and now they're here. To me, that's manifesting.
And then my, you know, my definition of flow, you know, the standard
one would be more in the neuroscience world of, of
flow, about peak performance. And, you know, we all heard
about athletes in the zone. And to me, my definition of flow
does include that. But I think flow is more of, an
(22:16):
energy state that is always available to us.
Probably can't spend all our time there, but we can spend a
lot more time there than we do currently. Flow is just that higher state
of energy that we can tap into that allows great things to come to
life. You know? It allows us to sort of more freely express
our talents, to develop those talents, to be more productive,
(22:39):
bring great things out into the world. How important is
state of mind? Because one of my reasons for doing
chatter that matters, I think the world is just so bombarded with negativity
that we just can't help but feel impossibility. How
important is it to have the right state of mind to pick up a
book like yours to open their minds to to what you're
(23:02):
saying? I'd say mindset is everything. However, you know, I have a
couple of sort of caveats with that. We are human beings.
You know, there's such thing as toxic positivity where it's like, well, it's
artificial. You know, it's me not being real. We can't always be this
this shiny beacon of of optimism and ethereal
light, but we can be it more often. And if you think about
(23:24):
mindset, it's really not just, well, I'm always gonna be positive. It's like, I'm
gonna be willing to believe that this is possible. And, you
know, and a big part of my program especially is
overcoming the obstacles in your path. You know, you start where
you're at, like any journey towards building the dreams of your
life, you know, the ultimate life that you want for yourself,
(23:46):
you're gonna have to overcome some barriers. And about
99% of those barriers are you. You spend a lot of
time in the strategy front, and I know you've worked all over the world and
you're highly regarded. But when I listen to you, it's almost
like that's your job, but where your passion is, if you could
rewrite the rules, would be much more on the some of the people that you've
(24:07):
read in the past, the philosophers, the people on psychology, the people that
are into psychic transformation. And how do you balance those two in
terms of what you need to do to pay your bills? And you're very good
at it, so you must get a lot of enjoyment from it, but also where
I think your journey has led you to today. Like, how do you manifest so
that you're creating the future Mike Power wants? You know, I do get paid to
(24:28):
do a certain thing, which seems completely separate from all these things
I'm talking about. Any person can bring soul to what they do. You
know, flow manifest is really about living from the soul, you know, bringing your
soul to stuff. So can I be a soulful strategist? Yeah. You
know, when I do branding for for clients, you know, I I
try to make it so deep. You know, it's based on real truths. It's based
(24:50):
on optimistic, beliefs. You know, this program that
I was talking about, I first tried it out and and built it
for in a corporate life, you know, as teams. I found in the
in the professional world when it comes to planning people's futures,
which is what a strategist does quite a bit. And I
found the limits in that space was people either didn't know
(25:13):
how to use imagination and creativity to imagine and envision
this future state, or if they did, they couldn't connect it with sort
of practical application and ways, ways of
carrying it through and making it happen. You know, so many things we do as
corporate is this sort of disembodied identity, whereas
it's the people within the the team that are neglected
(25:35):
because we just treat them as as kind of a widget that that's gonna work
together to make this great thing happen as opposed to, no. They got
pulses. They got hearts. They got dreams, personal things that they're trying to
translate and express through their work too. You know, that's where I kinda
started. I call it a testing ground because I always knew that I wanted to
take this passion project to the personal space. And I think that
(25:56):
what you're talking about is is transformation
versus show me the transaction. Show me how that's gonna
move the numbers. What's that gonna do for my market share? As
opposed to saying, you know, when you start talking about things like bringing soul to
the project, igniting imagination, empowering people, that's tough to
do in a corporate world. What do you tell that young 20 year old Mike
(26:19):
Power now that you're one of the philosophers that helped you get to where
you are? Bring some of your philosophy back to the young people out there
and many of them are struggling. The program I've designed is actually for
people all over the place. You know, it it's people that are stuck, either
those who are facing addiction and going through that
horrible thing I went through. But in fact, you know, that that work I do
(26:41):
for free, I give that away because that's sort of my my paying back
for for the service that got me healthy. But then there's other people who
are just stuck in different ways. Like, they got stuck down a path. They
they pursued the wrong version, of a dream. They
thought that they could get it through different means, and now they're going, where
am I what do I do now? And then there's also those
(27:03):
seekers, you know, those people that are always looking for the next rung. They're
just expansive in their view. And something like me
and my program is just one more aspect. You know? It's just one more way
to look at it, just that next breath of of inspiration
for them to say, okay. This this is just part of my march. I
guess it's as essential or simple as saying you're so much more
(27:26):
than you think you are. And these things that you're worried about, that you're
scared of, you don't need to worry. You're going to be okay. In fact,
I had a friend way back then. He used to say, Mike's going to succeed
in spite of himself. I know you now as a friend, and I would
say you've channeled your, this itch to scratch, and
you talked about it, the healthy things. I mean, you are avid in
(27:48):
terms of in the gym, a golfer, a runner. How important is
it for people to realize that if this is how you're wired,
you need to feed it as opposed to deny it. But you don't have to
feed it with things that are gonna push you to the bottom, but in fact,
they can help you get to the top. I've gone through this sort of
let's say right now in this phase of my life, in this place where the
(28:09):
what I'm calling free flow expression, you know, and the free is
from that kid I used to be, you know, the one who would have gone
to the gym because I was the skinny guy, you know, from those comic
books on the beach who had the sand kicked in his face, and I had
something to prove to life or to the world and to myself. I
now might do a lot of those same things, but it comes from a much
(28:29):
different place. The reasons, you know, the whys behind
the dreams have changed fundamentally. You know? So when I
go to the gym, when I go to when I get better at golf, when
I run the next half marathon. It's more about
expression. My definition to flow and manifest is just just
sort of an honest kind of loving expression that I'm I'm putting
(28:50):
out. And it's the joy in the doing with less attachment
to what it looks like or how it appears or where it's even getting
me. Am I gonna win the race? I don't know. Am I gonna hit my
time? I'm gonna try. I would say to other people,
well, finding your own flow, what is it that purely expresses who you wanna
be? Get creative. Get get open to, like,
(29:12):
declaring, well, what what do I want my life to look like? What kind of
experiences do I wanna have in life? And then how do I express
those without being overly controlling, letting
life kind of the dynamics of life in there and sort of to guide you
on your way? How important is it to have a partner that
understands all of this? Because if
(29:33):
not, you might be moving in a very different world and
universe than someone else. I believe that
good couples can have, different interests. You know? So one
could call my my aspect and focus on flow and
manifesting, which, you know, evolved over time and my my sort of
spiritual beliefs as mine. And I'm sure we share many of them,
(29:56):
but, you know, never was at a place where she needed to. And, you know,
so where we overlap seems quite comfortable and there's no
pressure on anyone to sort of conform their thinking. So I believe there's
room for people to have completely different attitudes about those
things. So, you know, Mike, I always end my podcast as my takeaways.
The first one was this, I always judge my inside by everyone else's
(30:18):
outside. I've never heard it expressed that way. I worked on the Dove brand for
eight years, and I really started to understand how people are chasing these false
beauty stereotypes, social media stereotypes, and I think that's an incredible
way to talk about how so many people feel
they're on their back feet or standing on shifting sand or not the
world's most interesting man because they're judging everyone's outside. The
(30:40):
other one that I thought was another interesting meme, and I can tell why you're
good at because part of strategies to get people to to bite into something
is this concept of liquid courage became chronic cool. Such
an interesting way to describe of a journey of someone that gets
overpowered by what they think brings them power. Everything you thought it
was doing for you is actually the wrong thing. The last one
(31:02):
is, you know, it comes back to Disney and dream it and you can do
it, and I always loved that expression, but you really unpacked it today.
We are all more than we think we are. We all have
a variety of souls inside us. What you're bringing out
with your book and your program, I think is the opportunity
for people, and I hope a lot of people listening do reach out to you.
(31:24):
There is an opportunity for them to get on this journey in
life, even if they're really happy, even if they think they're complete, because
there's just so much more, as you say, this
energy state, we might not be able to get to it all the time, but
we certainly can find it many more times. So for all of that and,
and more, Mr. Mike Power, appreciate you being on the show.
(31:45):
I appreciate being here. Thanks so much for the time, Tony.
Once again, a special thanks to RBC for supporting Chatter That Matters.
It's Tony Chapman. Thanks for listening, and let's chat soon.
We all know the saying you can't judge a book by its cover. It's a
phrase that reminds us not to make assumptions based on outward appearances.
It sort of tells you to look deeper to understand the true nature, value, of
quality of something or someone. A very common theme
you'll hear from addicts or or alcoholics like myself is we
kinda grew up feeling outside of life. The expression we use is
(00:24):
I felt less than. When I first met Mike Power, my guest this week, and
I was impressed by his cover. As physically fit as you can get, he's run
the Boston marathon twice. He's a strategist, great
conversationalist, a wicked sense of humor. It's one of those dry humor as they plant
a seed and they really hope you discover things.
As I open the book, as we often do when you go from casual acquaintances
(00:46):
to friends, as you dive deeper into their lives, you realize that there's
always much more behind the cover. An insidious thing
that started out real good as a nice, you know, way to accentuate
elements of my personality that were already there, and
then eroded them over time. Mike's an addict, a cancer
survivor. He's a big brain who's looking to unpack some of the secrets of the
(01:08):
universe, but also trying to fit into a world where superficiality and
skipping across the surface of life is where most people like to
be and play. I look back at my life. It's like those things that
have occurred in my life were at one point dreams, and now they're here.
So today, we're gonna open up the book on the story of Mike Power and
we're gonna understand how flow and manifestation not only matters
(01:30):
to him but also to you.
Hi. It's Tony Chapman. Thank you for listening to Chatter That Matters presented
by RBC. If you can, please subscribe to the podcast. And
ratings
(01:55):
Mike Powart, welcome to, Chatter That Matters. Hey. Thanks, Tony. Nice
to be here. When I asked you why you wanted to do the show, you
said this to me. I've come to see my purpose in life is
to help and serve the 20 year old me. That everything I've learned
and everything I've put in my knapsack could be of immense value to
summon this maybe looking for the answers I was looking
(02:17):
for and couldn't find. So, Mike, we're gonna get
into what you were like as a 20 year old, but I think it's
always important to even rewind the tape a little further.
And talk to me a little bit about your childhood, who
you were and how you saw the world. Being out you you
introduced me as an addict and alcoholic and and I've one who's
(02:40):
been through recovery. If you're at all familiar with those circles and
and if you've been exposed to any of that, which, you know, a lot of
people haven't, A very common theme you'll hear
from addicts or or alcoholics like myself is we kinda grew up
feeling outside of life. The expression we use is I felt less
than. I judged my insides by everyone else's outsides.
(03:02):
You know, everyone else seemed to have got the instruction manual. They had figured
it out. They were acting, you know, out in the world
expressing themselves, playing sports, seeming
to fit in, making friends seemed easy. And, of course, this was
this was just my perception as a young man. As I got older, I
realized that wasn't at all necessarily true. I knew I was
(03:24):
smart. Like, that part, I I kind of tuned into right away, and it
wasn't a boastful kind of smart. I just sort of saw things. I noticed things.
I was extremely sensitive, but also in that same
sensitivity, I was objective, and I could see things. I I was an only
child. I had good loving parents, middle
class, a nervous kid, very self conscious growing up. I love what
(03:47):
you say that, you know, I judge myself by everybody else's
outside. And I think now with these false social media stereotypes
and everybody living the perfect life and the sense of
constant FOMO, we're creating a lot more Mike Powers
to sort of judge the cover of these books as opposed to
really reflecting on what really is happening when you open the book. It's the information
(04:09):
age, so we find out and hear about almost everything now. So
I can't speak, empirically about this, but, you know, the rise of
of suicides, of young people, you know,
cyberbullying, and the effects that that can have. You know, there's
probably a lot more people if they're if they were designed and
thrown out into the world as the person that I was
(04:31):
exposed to that, I I think it would have just accentuated it and
accelerated it for someone like me at that sensitive age.
You started to find some escape or at least feeling that you could fit
into a jigsaw puzzle through alcohol or drugs. I mean, how did that all come
about? I I remember very early on in in what I
call my drinking career that I go, this is it. This is the
(04:53):
stuff. So now I had this suit of armor, and I had
this energy, elixir that I could take
into my body. And now I could do all those things that I once only
imagined doing. And I'm not exaggerating, but, like, the idea of
dancing in public? No. That wasn't something I was gonna
do as a as a young teenager. Going up and talking
(05:15):
to to strangers, you know, whether they'd be just, you know, dudes you
were trying to get to know or, you know, the cool kids, but most
importantly, girls, I didn't have the, you know, self confidence
or the tenacity to imagine doing that. Not only was I
had the courage to do these things, I started becoming this version of myself that
I didn't know was even possible. I started to become one of the cooler
(05:37):
kids. You know, later in reflection, I called it a chronic
kinda cool where it was like it was my undoing. But all
of a sudden, this superficial idea of who I could become was really
accelerated through alcohol and drugs. And, you know, and not only that,
but your drinking stories, drug stories, showed
a kind of, courage, false courage, but, you
(06:00):
know, allowed me to connect with people who saw
who were the same way. Did you ever know back then, or was
there a tipping point where it went from liquid courage to
consuming your life, you know, instead of giving you what you felt was a suit
of armor? If anything, it made you it put a target on your
back. There's a couple points that stand out, but it more felt like I was
(06:22):
circling the toilet bowl for about maybe six, seven years. Life
of rinse and repeat, you know, get up, you do it, and slowly
things, you know, the pros and cons. The cons started to outweigh the
pros. Any kind of addiction is is a kind of mental illness.
But, yeah, there's a couple standout times where I realized I'm in trouble.
And and that was with alcohol, but I was also addicted to to other
(06:44):
drugs. I was in New York City with a bunch of friends, and it was
another night of partying. And, of course, you know, everyone's partying,
but I'm probably drinking twice as much as they are. By that time,
I I developed enough stamina, resilience
that you wouldn't necessarily know that I was drunk, but I would be.
And the hangover started getting tremendous. And I remember being
(07:06):
in Manhattan somewhere downtown where at some busy store,
I started to have a panic attack. I knew it was physical a physical panic
attack because it was related to withdrawal from alcohol. And I knew
right in that moment that if I had a drink, I would get rid of
this. So I got in a cab and I went back to the place for
a stay, and I had two stiff drinks, and I felt much better. And in
(07:28):
that instant, I go, you're in trouble. You know, self knowledge will not
cure the alcoholic. I spent a lot of time after that. And in fact, I
became addicted to harder drugs in some perverted and
messed up, only an addict can think this way, attempt to get off
alcohol. You know? So it's like, well, I'll switch to this because, man, this alcohol
thing is too I can't take it anymore. I don't wanna live like this anymore.
(07:49):
So I ended up switching to something way worse for me. How did you
feel when you hit that bottom? And what's it like to realize that
you've fallen as far as you can? I'm one of those people that believe without
a bottom, you can't get better. What a lot of sort of recovery
programs try to do is raise the bottom, you know, so that you don't have
to go as deep to realize that you're there. Almost at
(08:11):
that worst moment is the exact moment when all the ingredients
start to show up that are gonna aid in your recovery. So it
was super painful to get to that bottom, and I had to burn everything to
the ground to start over again. I got to reinvent who this guy
was. The tune didn't change. I didn't change. It's just
that this thing I was looking for in my life, I was looking
(08:33):
for in the wrong places. I was looking for it through
crutches like alcohol and drugs and superficial achievements
and how I looked on the outside. So I was still looking for the same
thing, but now I started to look for it in a new place, a fresher
place, a more promising place, a more real place.
When you started to get better, did you ever fall off the wagon
(08:55):
again? Because what I understand from talking addicts, that is that hands feel
good on those rungs and you're pulling yourself up, and then you feel, well, I'm
now in control of who I am, so I can drink
responsibly. Or did you did you realize that if you even went near that, there
wouldn't be a ladder there? So by the time I got to a place where
I wanted to get well, I desperately wanted to get well. I would have done
(09:16):
anything to get better. Now I hit such a bottom that
I realized that I was in an imp prison. The gravitas of it,
the, you know, the complete powerlessness of it, I never
wanted to feel that way again. So, no, I didn't have a lot of
yearnings. You know, people would say to me, oh, Mike, you had a lot of
discipline. You had so much strength in getting sober. My personal strength had nothing
(09:38):
to do with it. It was like I'd got to a place through this bottom
of complete powerlessness and then the ultimate surrender,
to where I wanted to go, and the sort of the true spirit
inside of me. I never looked back. I'm curious that when
you're at this bottom, you're in this prison. How
long does it take you to rebuild the trust of people that used to
(10:01):
believe in you and you must have disappointed time and time
again? A lot of time in those early days, there was the boy that cried
wolf. You know, that story kept recurring to me. I go, oh my god. I'm
that boy. I'm that person now because I lied so
much that now even though I know I'm telling the truth, no one else
would necessarily believe me. So there's that rebuilding of trust. It
(10:23):
happens quicker than you think, because people can tell when you're
on solid ground again. And, you know, and because I was in early
recovery, it was the focus was less and less about other
people, and it was more about more about what was happening inside of
me. I was less living externally, and I was more living
internally. So I I allowed them and accepted their
(10:45):
lack of faith and and belief in me, and and I honoured that, and I
knew that that I I deserved it in a way. You know? And the other
thing is I ran into a guy I used to drink with in in
recovery. I went through the 12 steps of recovery, so Alcoholics
Anonymous. And he just said, Mike, I'm glad you're here.
I just want you to know the best thing I can tell you is it
(11:07):
takes a long time to get sober. And I and I learned over the next
couple years what he meant by that. There's a lot of untangling. There's a lot
of evolution and and sort of mindset and how you see, you
know, perceive yourself in life that needs to sort of be un
it needs to be undone. You know, without the liquid courage. And I
remember you sharing a story of dating who is now your life partner.
(11:29):
You're driving a van. There's a baby seat in the back. You're recovering
from a major illness. How did you ever find it
within yourself there was enough to be attracted to someone
else? We're gonna talk today about my version of manifest
and manifesting and, you know, the power of this this program that I wanna wanna
share with the world. But, you know, at the time, I may have been an
(11:51):
alcoholic, and I may have been a drug addict. And these were,
avenues that I'd went down that took me to, dead ends in
my life. But they were never me. There was a me that was
always there, unrestricted, uninhibited, you know, no
permanent damage done. So the person I, I
always was reemerged. I was more true to myself. I was
(12:13):
just being who I was, who I'd always been, and I just didn't need
the crutches anymore. My sense of fun,
my sense of, expression, my ability to make
connections and talk to people and and form personal,
relationships, all that was still there. In fact, it
was it was better than before because it was uninhibited by some of
(12:36):
my my addictive tendencies. So just before we pivot to
your book flow and where I think that the our audience is gonna get so
much value from how you've journaled and put your journey on the
paper because I think everybody is on some quest where
self reflection and improvement is part of it. You said it, and I
thought it was very profound. This is like kindergarten. It was like starting all
(12:58):
over. What was that sort of kindergarten stage
that had you start discovering that inside of Mike Power was
just this extraordinary human being? The spiritual
kindergarten, actually, the 12 step program, the the o the original author
of it, Bill Wilson, called their program that, you know, what we're
actually operating here is a spiritual kindergarten. They were using spiritual
(13:20):
principles to help people get over alcohol and drugs. This
is your start, you know, and that's a good segue into where
where our discussion's going too because, you know, the the very principles
that allowed me to get over alcohol and drugs and overcome other hardships in
my life, are also the very same principles
and energies that allow you to make fantastic things
(13:43):
happen in your life, big things happen, make dreams come true. You know? So
it's it's the same ingredients. It's the same elements, but you had to start where
you started. And where I was starting at that time was, like I
said, a a life that had been burnt to the ground, damages done,
things to be made up, money to be repaid, self identity to
be restored. So, yeah, you know, that starting place is so
(14:06):
critical. Those principles that might ladder up to greatness
one day in the very beginning have to be about
survival. And, you know, and I went through a a fair amount of time
where, you know, humility became an operative word. It's like, I don't really
know what I'm doing, but I'm willing to take direction. And, you know,
that direction for me came from forces around me and
(14:29):
outside of me and other human beings. You know? And I remember one
time I started working again, in early recovery, and and I
I got up and live with my parents again. I I'm going to get ready
to go to work, and I grabbed these two pairs of socks and they don't
match. It stumped me. I didn't know what to do. I sat
down in the bed literally scratching my head going, what do I do now?
(14:50):
And that was the state I was in. I had a sponsor. You probably heard
of those in 12 step programs. And I'd I'd say that
person saved my life. They were fantastic, and they're still
friends. We're still good friends today, and they started my journey. For
about two years, I called them every day. Somehow today I, I
still call them but I don't have any problems? Like, like it what was
(15:12):
the difference?
When we come back, Mike Power and I talk about
flow, and I mean that literally because we're gonna talk about his book, his
workshop, and how everything he's learned, he's now
applying to help others overcome their circumstances.
(15:37):
Hi. This is Tony Chapman, host of the radio show and podcast Chatter That
Matters. Did you know that only one in five youth with a mental
health illness can get access to the care they need? Well,
a big shout out to the RBC Foundation and RBC Future Launch
for supporting over 150 youth mental health organizations.
And in doing so, they help youth and their families get the care they need
(16:00):
and deserve.
I started to have a panic attack. I knew it was physical a physical panic
attack because it was related to withdrawal. And I knew right in that moment that
if I had a drink, I would get rid of this. So I got in
the cab and I went back to the place where we were staying and I
had two stiff drinks and I felt much better and in that instant, I
(16:23):
go, you're in trouble. My guest today is Mike Power,
recovering addict, cancer survivor, found himself
deeply in debt with zero prospects. He hit rock
bottom, and then he started climbing.
So let's move the conversation to this fantastic
(16:43):
book called Flow. How did it come about?
Was it more just part of your healing and your journey, or was it
truly you felt that maybe your calling now in life was to take
these circumstances you overcame? And as you said very early on
when we talked about this interview and make it available
to those people that might be looking at how to change their
(17:06):
future. I I got introduced to basic
principles, you know, in this kindergarten, that were
kinda like new, but not they're very familiar. It's like, oh, I
remember this. You know, I remember feeling this way before I diverted
my attention into living, you know, in this maximum control
world where I was gonna control every aspect of living through drugs
(17:28):
and alcohols and and success and, how I was seen
and what I looked like and how I dressed and all the things I did
that made me cool. Before that, I had a fun a different,
more fundamental sort of connection with what I would call life. You know, let's call
it the universe. It got me sober. Mindfulness
and prayer is the is the power that got me sober.
(17:50):
I just kept building on it. You know? When you're when you're done kindergarten, you
go to grade one, and you go to grade two, grade three. This started
to have all the things I'd been looking for in my other way of living.
So why wouldn't I do more of it? And I started to to go
through what what recovery circles would call a psychic change. How
I looked at myself, how I looked at life kinda went through a really
(18:12):
revolutionary new update. I devoured text.
I I read the stoics. I read
philosophy. I read, you know, Deepak Chopra, Wayne
Dyer. I became a seeker. This thing that I'd
been looking for earlier in my life, I was starting to find. And what
I would define it as is power, you know, but true power. To
(18:34):
do what? I don't know. Be happy, to feel content, to feel safe,
make up, overcome that kid who started out in
life and felt like, you know, I couldn't give an inch up. I once read
a quote that alcoholism and addiction is the doomed attempt to
control every aspect of life. You know? And then the alternative
to that was being open to life and and this
(18:57):
paradox of of striving and moving forward while at the same
time letting go. Anyway, so this this really just opened up
new worlds for me. I've thought about it. I talked about it. You
know, our our program, we deal with newcomers a lot and we try to help
other people through what we call our experience, strength, and help.
And so it's something I spoke about because people said, well, how did you do
(19:18):
this? How did this happen? And I started to notice that my life was big.
Dreams were coming coming true for me. I got
curious, and I started to make these connections with things that
I had put. You know, even in my even in my burnt to the
ground phase of life, those things were all on my wish list at some
point. There's times where I'm with my wife and I I look at her and
(19:40):
I feel like I literally dreamed her into existence. And then, well, how'd
that happen? You know, then I look at other aspects of my life and was
going through cancer, and I was at the tail end of chemo. And it was,
two weeks before Christmas, and the firm I was with,
a global marketing firm, fired me for
some trumped up reason. You know? There I was without
(20:03):
a job, approaching Christmas, not yet finished my chemo. A
few months later, I was now squarely landed in the career I'd always
dreamed of. I was a consultant. I was making twice as much
money. I was doing things that I always dreamed of doing.
Those type of connections started to fire off my mind, and I started writing about
it. And that kinda led to the program that that I'm now
(20:25):
calling flow manifest. You have your own definitions
of flow and manifestation. Because to me, those
two words I'd add mindfulness are almost like the words like excellence
two decades ago. Everybody just throws it out, puts in part of
their vernacular, but I really enjoyed how you've
compressed those words. And then when you
(20:47):
release them, they truly are this magic carpet ride of
positivity and possibility. The way I spoke about those two concepts
of flow and manifest are different, and
more expansive and sort of bigger. And I like to think even more
optimistic than the way, the rest of the world or most
people talk about those two concepts. You know, if you take manifesting,
(21:10):
you know, there's things like the secret. And and I'm not putting any of these
programs down, but they they all seem to sort of be, mystical
and, some kind of mind hack where it's like, well, if I if I
envision something bad enough, then it will come true, and I can
use the power of my mind to make it happen. I just believe that the
idea of manifestation could be even more practical than that.
(21:32):
Mind power and mindset is is definitely one part of it, but there's some
practical and methodical approaches that you can apply to your
life. The only watch out is we're not in charge always of the timetable.
You know, I can't make things happen instantly. But like I was sharing with you
a couple minutes ago, I look back at my life. It's like, those things
that have occurred in my life were at one point dreams that were just listed
(21:54):
on a piece of paper, and now they're here. To me, that's manifesting.
And then my, you know, my definition of flow, you know, the standard
one would be more in the neuroscience world of, of
flow, about peak performance. And, you know, we all heard
about athletes in the zone. And to me, my definition of flow
does include that. But I think flow is more of, an
(22:16):
energy state that is always available to us.
Probably can't spend all our time there, but we can spend a
lot more time there than we do currently. Flow is just that higher state
of energy that we can tap into that allows great things to come to
life. You know? It allows us to sort of more freely express
our talents, to develop those talents, to be more productive,
(22:39):
bring great things out into the world. How important is
state of mind? Because one of my reasons for doing
chatter that matters, I think the world is just so bombarded with negativity
that we just can't help but feel impossibility. How
important is it to have the right state of mind to pick up a
book like yours to open their minds to to what you're
(23:02):
saying? I'd say mindset is everything. However, you know, I have a
couple of sort of caveats with that. We are human beings.
You know, there's such thing as toxic positivity where it's like, well, it's
artificial. You know, it's me not being real. We can't always be this
this shiny beacon of of optimism and ethereal
light, but we can be it more often. And if you think about
(23:24):
mindset, it's really not just, well, I'm always gonna be positive. It's like, I'm
gonna be willing to believe that this is possible. And, you
know, and a big part of my program especially is
overcoming the obstacles in your path. You know, you start where
you're at, like any journey towards building the dreams of your
life, you know, the ultimate life that you want for yourself,
(23:46):
you're gonna have to overcome some barriers. And about
99% of those barriers are you. You spend a lot of
time in the strategy front, and I know you've worked all over the world and
you're highly regarded. But when I listen to you, it's almost
like that's your job, but where your passion is, if you could
rewrite the rules, would be much more on the some of the people that you've
(24:07):
read in the past, the philosophers, the people on psychology, the people that
are into psychic transformation. And how do you balance those two in
terms of what you need to do to pay your bills? And you're very good
at it, so you must get a lot of enjoyment from it, but also where
I think your journey has led you to today. Like, how do you manifest so
that you're creating the future Mike Power wants? You know, I do get paid to
(24:28):
do a certain thing, which seems completely separate from all these things
I'm talking about. Any person can bring soul to what they do. You
know, flow manifest is really about living from the soul, you know, bringing your
soul to stuff. So can I be a soulful strategist? Yeah. You
know, when I do branding for for clients, you know, I I
try to make it so deep. You know, it's based on real truths. It's based
(24:50):
on optimistic, beliefs. You know, this program that
I was talking about, I first tried it out and and built it
for in a corporate life, you know, as teams. I found in the
in the professional world when it comes to planning people's futures,
which is what a strategist does quite a bit. And I
found the limits in that space was people either didn't know
(25:13):
how to use imagination and creativity to imagine and envision
this future state, or if they did, they couldn't connect it with sort
of practical application and ways, ways of
carrying it through and making it happen. You know, so many things we do as
corporate is this sort of disembodied identity, whereas
it's the people within the the team that are neglected
(25:35):
because we just treat them as as kind of a widget that that's gonna work
together to make this great thing happen as opposed to, no. They got
pulses. They got hearts. They got dreams, personal things that they're trying to
translate and express through their work too. You know, that's where I kinda
started. I call it a testing ground because I always knew that I wanted to
take this passion project to the personal space. And I think that
(25:56):
what you're talking about is is transformation
versus show me the transaction. Show me how that's gonna
move the numbers. What's that gonna do for my market share? As
opposed to saying, you know, when you start talking about things like bringing soul to
the project, igniting imagination, empowering people, that's tough to
do in a corporate world. What do you tell that young 20 year old Mike
(26:19):
Power now that you're one of the philosophers that helped you get to where
you are? Bring some of your philosophy back to the young people out there
and many of them are struggling. The program I've designed is actually for
people all over the place. You know, it it's people that are stuck, either
those who are facing addiction and going through that
horrible thing I went through. But in fact, you know, that that work I do
(26:41):
for free, I give that away because that's sort of my my paying back
for for the service that got me healthy. But then there's other people who
are just stuck in different ways. Like, they got stuck down a path. They
they pursued the wrong version, of a dream. They
thought that they could get it through different means, and now they're going, where
am I what do I do now? And then there's also those
(27:03):
seekers, you know, those people that are always looking for the next rung. They're
just expansive in their view. And something like me
and my program is just one more aspect. You know? It's just one more way
to look at it, just that next breath of of inspiration
for them to say, okay. This this is just part of my march. I
guess it's as essential or simple as saying you're so much more
(27:26):
than you think you are. And these things that you're worried about, that you're
scared of, you don't need to worry. You're going to be okay. In fact,
I had a friend way back then. He used to say, Mike's going to succeed
in spite of himself. I know you now as a friend, and I would
say you've channeled your, this itch to scratch, and
you talked about it, the healthy things. I mean, you are avid in
(27:48):
terms of in the gym, a golfer, a runner. How important is
it for people to realize that if this is how you're wired,
you need to feed it as opposed to deny it. But you don't have to
feed it with things that are gonna push you to the bottom, but in fact,
they can help you get to the top. I've gone through this sort of
let's say right now in this phase of my life, in this place where the
(28:09):
what I'm calling free flow expression, you know, and the free is
from that kid I used to be, you know, the one who would have gone
to the gym because I was the skinny guy, you know, from those comic
books on the beach who had the sand kicked in his face, and I had
something to prove to life or to the world and to myself. I
now might do a lot of those same things, but it comes from a much
(28:29):
different place. The reasons, you know, the whys behind
the dreams have changed fundamentally. You know? So when I
go to the gym, when I go to when I get better at golf, when
I run the next half marathon. It's more about
expression. My definition to flow and manifest is just just
sort of an honest kind of loving expression that I'm I'm putting
(28:50):
out. And it's the joy in the doing with less attachment
to what it looks like or how it appears or where it's even getting
me. Am I gonna win the race? I don't know. Am I gonna hit my
time? I'm gonna try. I would say to other people,
well, finding your own flow, what is it that purely expresses who you wanna
be? Get creative. Get get open to, like,
(29:12):
declaring, well, what what do I want my life to look like? What kind of
experiences do I wanna have in life? And then how do I express
those without being overly controlling, letting
life kind of the dynamics of life in there and sort of to guide you
on your way? How important is it to have a partner that
understands all of this? Because if
(29:33):
not, you might be moving in a very different world and
universe than someone else. I believe that
good couples can have, different interests. You know? So one
could call my my aspect and focus on flow and
manifesting, which, you know, evolved over time and my my sort of
spiritual beliefs as mine. And I'm sure we share many of them,
(29:56):
but, you know, never was at a place where she needed to. And, you know,
so where we overlap seems quite comfortable and there's no
pressure on anyone to sort of conform their thinking. So I believe there's
room for people to have completely different attitudes about those
things. So, you know, Mike, I always end my podcast as my takeaways.
The first one was this, I always judge my inside by everyone else's
(30:18):
outside. I've never heard it expressed that way. I worked on the Dove brand for
eight years, and I really started to understand how people are chasing these false
beauty stereotypes, social media stereotypes, and I think that's an incredible
way to talk about how so many people feel
they're on their back feet or standing on shifting sand or not the
world's most interesting man because they're judging everyone's outside. The
(30:40):
other one that I thought was another interesting meme, and I can tell why you're
good at because part of strategies to get people to to bite into something
is this concept of liquid courage became chronic cool. Such
an interesting way to describe of a journey of someone that gets
overpowered by what they think brings them power. Everything you thought it
was doing for you is actually the wrong thing. The last one
(31:02):
is, you know, it comes back to Disney and dream it and you can do
it, and I always loved that expression, but you really unpacked it today.
We are all more than we think we are. We all have
a variety of souls inside us. What you're bringing out
with your book and your program, I think is the opportunity
for people, and I hope a lot of people listening do reach out to you.
(31:24):
There is an opportunity for them to get on this journey in
life, even if they're really happy, even if they think they're complete, because
there's just so much more, as you say, this
energy state, we might not be able to get to it all the time, but
we certainly can find it many more times. So for all of that and,
and more, Mr. Mike Power, appreciate you being on the show.
(31:45):
I appreciate being here. Thanks so much for the time, Tony.
Once again, a special thanks to RBC for supporting Chatter That Matters.
It's Tony Chapman. Thanks for listening, and let's chat soon.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com