October 31, 2024 • 42 mins
Summary
In this engaging conversation, Pastor Samuel Rodriguez shares his multifaceted journey as a pastor, film producer, and advisor to U.S. presidents. He discusses the importance of the Holy Spirit in contemporary culture, the dynamics of multicultural churches, and the challenges of fostering community in a growing congregation. Rodriguez emphasizes the need for churches to reflect their communities and the power of faith to overcome fear and despair. He also offers insights into productivity and the significance of small groups in church life, while addressing the complexities of mega church culture.
Takeaways
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Background
01:18 Embracing Diversity in the Church
06:21 The Power of the Holy Spirit in Cultural Christianity
10:34 Seeking a Fresh Anointing, Holy Fire, and New Joy
14:27 The Battle Between Your Mind and Your Mantle
19:12 Living in the Victory of Jesus
20:32 Turning on the Light in the Darkness
23:05 Reaching and Connecting with Immigrant Families
25:24 The Power of Small Groups in Building Community
33:30 Living a Christ-Centered Life to Impact the World
Pastor Sam's Bio
Samuel Rodriguez is a pastor, speaker, best-selling author, movie producer and civil rights activist whose career in the public square and international ministry have made him one of the most influential Christian leaders in the world. CNN and Fox News have named him “the leader of the Hispanic Evangelical movement,” and Time magazine nominated him as one of the “100 Most Influential People in the World.” Rodriguez has advised Presidents Bush, Obama, and Trump, and he is the first Hispanic American to have participated in two different Presidential inauguration ceremonies. He is the recipient of the Martin Luther King Jr. Leadership Award presented by the Congress of Racial Equality and serves as the president of National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference. Pastor Sam resides with his family in Sacramento, California, where he leads New Season Church. His new book Fresh Oil, Holy Fire, New Wine: Living the Vibrant Holy Spirit-Filled Life will be available nationwide on September 10, 2024.
In this engaging conversation, Pastor Samuel Rodriguez shares his multifaceted journey as a pastor, film producer, and advisor to U.S. presidents. He discusses the importance of the Holy Spirit in contemporary culture, the dynamics of multicultural churches, and the challenges of fostering community in a growing congregation. Rodriguez emphasizes the need for churches to reflect their communities and the power of faith to overcome fear and despair. He also offers insights into productivity and the significance of small groups in church life, while addressing the complexities of mega church culture.
Takeaways
- Pastor Samuel Rodriguez is a prominent figure in the Pentecostal movement.
- The Holy Spirit plays a crucial role in film and culture.
- Advising presidents has given Rodriguez a unique perspective on faith and politics.
- Multicultural churches reflect the diversity of heaven and are essential for community.
- The Holy Spirit is the most powerful force against fear and despair.
- Breaking through cultural barriers requires patience and understanding.
- Productivity in ministry is guided by identity, intimacy, integrity, influence, and innovation.
- Mega churches can have a positive impact if they focus on community and discipleship.
- Building community outside of Sunday services is vital for church growth.
- Christ must be the center of all church activities to ensure true Christianity.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Background
01:18 Embracing Diversity in the Church
06:21 The Power of the Holy Spirit in Cultural Christianity
10:34 Seeking a Fresh Anointing, Holy Fire, and New Joy
14:27 The Battle Between Your Mind and Your Mantle
19:12 Living in the Victory of Jesus
20:32 Turning on the Light in the Darkness
23:05 Reaching and Connecting with Immigrant Families
25:24 The Power of Small Groups in Building Community
33:30 Living a Christ-Centered Life to Impact the World
Pastor Sam's Bio
Samuel Rodriguez is a pastor, speaker, best-selling author, movie producer and civil rights activist whose career in the public square and international ministry have made him one of the most influential Christian leaders in the world. CNN and Fox News have named him “the leader of the Hispanic Evangelical movement,” and Time magazine nominated him as one of the “100 Most Influential People in the World.” Rodriguez has advised Presidents Bush, Obama, and Trump, and he is the first Hispanic American to have participated in two different Presidential inauguration ceremonies. He is the recipient of the Martin Luther King Jr. Leadership Award presented by the Congress of Racial Equality and serves as the president of National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference. Pastor Sam resides with his family in Sacramento, California, where he leads New Season Church. His new book Fresh Oil, Holy Fire, New Wine: Living the Vibrant Holy Spirit-Filled Life will be available nationwide on September 10, 2024.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, it's Jaredith. So glad to be back with you all.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
We took a little time off, not as much as
we've taken in the past, but we did have a
little break while we were moving offices and studios and
now I'm in my new space, so back on the grind.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Hopefully.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
We have some more episodes coming at you regularly every
week or two, starting with this one, and this is
a great one. We sat down with Pastor Sam Samuel Rodriguez,
who many of you may know. He's a multi hyphenate
evangelical leader and you can see him involved in movie production,
(00:37):
as a pastor, author, civil rights activist. You'll see him
on TV like everywhere you look. So we sit down
with him for an interesting and enlightening interview. We talked
to him about what it's like to do some of
the things he does, and especially pastoring a megachurch, and
what it's like to do evangelism and even more so
(01:02):
discipleship on a large scale. So we think you'll enjoy
this episode with Pastor Sam. Welcome back to two Pentecostals
and a microphone. Me and Bryce a here of course,
and we are joined by Pastor Sam. Samuel Rodriguez, who
(01:23):
some of you may know, some of you may not.
He is a pastor of a large church in California.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Right, sure, if you say so, I believe you, Jared.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
We'll go with that.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
He is on the board at or Roberts University. He
is a lot of things, a film producer, author, and
I actually watched one of his films recently that he
was involved with. Anyway, a lot of things to a
lot of people in the Pentecostal movement. And he is
president of the tell me the name of the organization
(01:58):
one more time.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Should know Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
That's it. That's the one. That's the one, that's.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
The one on the one of the long acronyms.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yes, yeah, there's so many acronyms. All right. So we
are glad to have you on.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
We are we are excited to get into this and
uh to start it off, I guess welcome.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Thank you guys for having me. Blessed to be with you.
I'm having a conversation with two Pentecostals. Who does that?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Right?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So let me ask you are with the assemblies of
God or are you independent?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Or I'm an independent? I'm an independent with the Assembies
of God. I'm a part time comedian, guys, so you
have to work with me.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yes, yes and no no.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
I am a I grew up Assemblies of God and
I'm Assembly of God credentialed. Yes, okay, but but but
we have the network we oversee includes uh you name it,
different Pentecostal denominations and streams, and uh, yeah, we're we're
we just work across the spirited power spectrum.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Awesome. Cool.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
So Bryce and I are both with the United Pentecostal Church,
which at some point in the past was part of
I don't know how that exactly worked, but was associated
with the AOG I believe at some point in our history. Yes,
and I think there was a that's either the split
or the merger. I hear all these different terms, and
I don't remember which is.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Which someone else's someone split is someone else's merger, my friend,
it's total matter of perspective.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
That is true. That is true, So great to have
you on. I think you're our first AOG pastor that
we've talked.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Well, I mean.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
That well again, yeah, it's not. Yeah, Pentecostal the label
I'm not a myopic with not even though I honored
the beautiful you know, facilitative bomb that gave birth to
us and provides that that sort of support mechanism. But
we were across the Pentecostal spectrum across from UPC to
a G, the Church of God to four square across
(03:57):
the board. So it's it's what defines is Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Very cool. Okay, that's that's good to know. All right.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
So you have a lot of a lot of credentials.
I think that's kind of what I found interesting at
first was that you do so many different things. And
Bryce was telling me that he had watched one of
your films that you were involved with, and I had
not seen it. But Bryce, did you want to ask
something about that?
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Well, yeah, I so, my wife and I became foster
parents last year and we end up fostering a Guatemalan teenager.
Very very interesting experience to say the least. But he
loves everything spicy, spicy food, all that stuff, and we
(04:48):
came across the flaming hot Yeah, and it was It
was really cool because it was actually one of the
last movies we watched before he went back home with mom,
and so it's kind of a special special movie with
us and I really really enjoy it, very inspiring. But
I'm curious, like, how do how does a pastor, you know,
(05:13):
get into into film and into producing movies and especially
attributed by Disney and Disney.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Yeah, yeah, well no, it took place. It took place
being the conduit of some years ago, the Good Lord
gave me a word regarding movies and and through someone
a very recognized prophetic voice in the Pentecostal world, someone
who is there's a fine line between the prophetic and
the pathetic. And this person came in with legitimacy, meaning
it's biblically undergirded, and the word this person's prophetic mantle
(05:46):
has been tested. This person's batting a thousand, So there's
no ambiguity right regarding the certainty. So it's so the
person gave a word years ago, said Sammy, God says Hollywood.
He's opening up Hollywood for you. I had no interest
in Hollywood, no desire, no interest, no passion. Matter of fact,
I would preach against Hollywood. Right after that word, I
(06:06):
get a call from Paramount Studios to consult on a film.
To consult, I started writing scripts. I started working with
Mark Barnett and Roma Downey, serving them in some of
their initiatives Son of God, Bible ad series and so forth.
And then I started helping out with some scripts. And
then I did a little bit of anthing, one of
the God's Not Dead movies. You'll see me there for
a millennial minute. I did some anthing and then I
(06:29):
saw I heard a story about a young man what
Amolliam boy who died in Saint Charles Lake in Missouri
out Church of Saint Louis. That he died and he
was dead for an hour and eight minutes. The Holy
Spirit prompted me and staid, you're making that story into
a movie. How I had no connection to the production
element of it, but God did tell me, you go
(06:51):
make it into a movie, and we did. It was
my first movie breakthrough. It was very successful around the world,
and they was nominated for an Academy Award for Best
Originals All and it went viral and then the Flaming
Hot Same Thing. A friend of mine, Richard served on
my board. I looked at him and said, I'm going
to make your story into a movie that that's been
promised by other people. I go, I'm not other people.
(07:13):
And God enabled me to make his story into a
movie with Disney, the other one with twentieth Century Fox.
So I make movies, and I love Christian studios, but
not with Christian studios. I make movies in order to
be light in the midst of darkness. I want to
make faith, family friendly movies that will invade the darkness
with the anoying of God. And every single time life
(07:36):
stands next to darkness, life always wins.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Right, Absolutely, that's that's so true. I love your heart
in that because I think there's so so much garbage
out there, and we just seed more and more light.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Yep. Indeed, and us Jesus has a purpose for Hollywood,
and I belie believe that we're about to see the
fullness of the finished work of Christ made evident in
every spirit of society, including Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
I agree with that.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
I think it's so important that we don't just write
off certain parts of society, like I think the church,
conservative Church has a tendency to do that with Hollywood,
with with politics, with certain certain aspects of culture that
I think God wants to to redeem, especially those people
that are I mean, those are people politicians.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Believe it or not, are still people.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Well, and you have some you have some experience with
that as well, advising a few presidents right.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
By the grace of God. Again, I was twelve years
old in the Pentecostal church. A guy walked in there
and never met me before ever. This is back in
the day, this is in the previous century. This is
before Google and even Internet. And he comes in there
and in the middle of the song he's a team challenge.
Choir director's name is Bernie Delot, so I'll give you names.
(08:56):
It's been well documented and there's programs on this and
so forth. He walked there and I'm twelve years older,
and he says, there's a Sami in this place, a Sami,
a Sami in church right, never been there before, and
just the word of wisdom, word of knowledge. And my
pastor says, hey, you're the only Sam. Come up. He's
calling you, and I'm going, oh, man, if this rapture
thing is real, come Lord Jesus, come, and like this
(09:17):
guy just called me out by name and everything I'm
doing now he laid out. And he concluded by saying,
you will be praying for presidents of the United States
of America. That's pretty crazy because if you got that
wrong I would be an atheist or agnostic right now,
So you better make certainness of God. It was of God.
I've been an advisor to George W. Bush, Barack Obama,
(09:39):
and Donald Trump, and I didn't have to vote for
them in order to advise them. I'm a pro lifer
and I have biblical values that guide me how I vote.
But I advise all three of them because God gave
me a word, he put an assignment, and it's all
part of his plan Ephesians two times. So yeah, I've
had the privilege of advising three different presidents. I prayed
for two presidents rations by the grace of God and
(10:01):
for the glory of his name, the first Latino to
do so in American history, and I was. I was
the first Pentecostal according to what we understand. Wikipedia, I
think says it the first mine Costal in American history
to have prayed for a presidential inauguration, because then PAULA.
White and all that did it after I did it.
So so to God be all the glory that's all
(10:21):
Him in order to fill the earth with the glory
of Jesus Man.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
That's awesome, wow, very cool. So I have to ask
we were just watching a clip today. Bryce sent me
a clip of a sermon you're preaching, and I wanted
to ask you something along these lines, but I didn't
know how we could work it in. But since you
were recently talking about it, I guess it's a good
question for you. We've been our church in rural southern
(10:47):
Indiana has grown a lot over the last what year
and a half or so. Nearly all of that growth
has been in a historically all you know, white middle
well basically white middle class church has been in the
Hispanic community and in the patient community. So we have
we have services now with interpretation and Creole and Spanish,
(11:11):
and we've had a Spanish We've had a Spanish convert
a Spanish service as well for quite a while several years.
But now we have several Hispanic members in our English
service and we have our Spanish service as well. So
there's always this tension I feel between a cultural church,
you know, a Spanish church, a Black church, a white church,
(11:35):
and how that kind of cultural church can relate so
well to the culture of that of that community. You know,
a black church member in a black church is being
ministered to in a way that is very relatable or
or you know, whatever the case is. That's that's a
beautiful thing and of itself. But I think what is
(11:56):
also a beautiful thing is when a church comes together,
this truly multicultural and looks like Heaven and they're worshiping together.
It's a little more difficult, it's a little more messy.
How do you how do you view that tension? Is
there a better option? Is one better than the other?
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Is it both? Yes?
Speaker 3 (12:14):
No, it's any any gathering right Matthew eighteen. Any gathering
Versus sixteenth through nineteen. Any gathering in the name of
Jesus and Hebrews undergirds at is beautiful, Amen, regardless of
the being. If it's one group age wise ethnicy. But
(12:34):
there is a better presentation. It's laid out in Revelation
chapter five. All nations are racist, all credos worshiping the
lamp together. I passed through a multi epic church. My
church is forty percent white, which is in forty percent Black,
twenty percent Latino, Native Americans and Asians. It's primarily millennial.
It's sixteen percent millennial and then Generation Z, so it's
(12:55):
very young. But millennials and Generation Z. Unless you live
in the rural part of Indiana. It that's changing. Unless
you live in North Dakota, Montana, where you know you can't.
You have to travel like three hundred miles to find
any other ethnicity. You know you have no other choice.
Your church should reflect the community you're at, period period.
If your church does not reflect the community you're in. So,
(13:17):
if you live in a city that's very multi ethnically diverse,
but your church is completely black, I have problems with that.
I do. If your church is completely white and the
church has multiethnic be diverse, I have problems with that.
How about this, if your church is completely just brown Latina,
I have problems with that because your church should reflect,
should serve and win everyone every color. And in our church,
(13:41):
we don't even call it multicultural. We call it a
multi ethnic kingdom culture church. We should be elevating a
culture of the Kingdom and God blessed diversity. White people
are beautiful, Black people are beautiful, Brown people are beautiful,
Asians are beautiful. Every color is beautiful. However, that tapestry
that mosaic mean together, it's prophetic. It's pentecost remember pentecost
(14:03):
acts too, of course, Hey, yeah, you know Pentecost I
know Pentocausta. They spoke the languages around them, right. It
became the multi ethnic kingdom culture expression. Pentecost by his
very definition, requires or demands a multi ethnic, multi lingual expression,
So we need to be I can tell you this
(14:24):
in the next the Lord Terry's in the next twenty
thirty years, the majority of Pentecostal churches in America will
be a multi ethnic unless you live in North Dakota,
unless you live like in Alaska, in a field somewhere
where everyone's an Eskimo. You know, I get that, because
what are you gonna do bust them in from like Anchorage,
So it's not but you know, yeah, the majorities would
be a multi ethic because it looks like Heavin man,
(14:46):
it does.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yes, And that's our experience. I was hoping you would
say that because that's kind of what I was. That's
the way I feel about it. I know that experience
in our local church has changed so much in the
last couple of years because of that shift in the
because the culture or the makeup I guess the demographics.
It's been shifting in our community for years, but the
church was definitely lagging. Our congregation was lagging, but it's
(15:10):
been nothing but a blessing. There are challenges that come
with it, but.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Yeah, but those are cultural challenges that you overcome through
the finished work of Christ. Because what defines is primarily
is not the color of our skin. Well, what brings us,
what brings us together, is the Holy Spirit inside of us, right,
the Spirit of Christ. So because of that, it's to
the finished work of Christ that we come together. Yeah,
it's John seventeen twenty one, make them one as we
(15:36):
are one. It's that clary and call that prayer.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
And so you talk about the work of the Spirit.
I mean that's exactly how I see it, because without
the work of the Spirit, it is too.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Difficult for some people.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
If people will let the Spirit work through them, then
then everybody, no matter how difficult they think it is,
they can work it out.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
They can make it.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
They can prefer their brother, they can allow the church
to be.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
The Holy Spirit. Trump's culture, politics, education, economies, the Holy Spirit,
Trump's absolutely.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Everything, absolutely, one hundred percent. So that I mean that
brings us to your book. I guess the new book
is is on that topic of the Holy Spirit. So
how do you how do you see the Holy Spirit
moving in the uh in cultural Christianity today. It's I
think there's a lot of problems right now with with
(16:35):
what I call cultural Christianity, But I think you you
have a unique insight into that from your position as
pastor and being involved in Hollywood all these things.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Yeah, No, the Holy Spirit. The reason I wrote this
book Fresh Oil, Holy Fire, and New Wine is to
push to provide a pushback to the idea that the
most powerful spirit on the planet today is the spirit
of fear, anxiety, depression, shame, condemnation, hedonism, perversion, moral decadence,
spiritual apathy, relativism. No, man, I mean, these things are alive.
We don't deny them. Right. The apostle Paul writes in
(17:08):
Ephesian six twelve, we're battling not against flesh and blood,
and then he tells us to put on the armor
of God. We understand that, however, the most powerful spirit
on the planet, it's not the spirit of Jezbel bao
A have Goliath, Navik and ezer Herod, or even the
anti Christ. The most powerful spirit on the planet is
still the Holy Spirit of Almighty God. The Holy Spirit
is still moving, The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ
(17:31):
is moving on this planet, moving mightily and powerfully. And
wherever that spirit is present, there is power Acts one eight.
There is freedom second Corinthians three seventeen, there is holiness
Galatians five sixteen, there is victory Romans eight eleven. And
there is annoying one John two twenty seven. That's the
Holy Spirit. He's moving mightily. The Spirit of Christ is moving.
(17:53):
Jesus via the conduit of his spirit is moving. So
I don't drink the kool aid, man. I'm not like
embracing the whole negative news, all wrong, going to hell.
And I have asked it quickly. God is moving, and
that's why I wrote this book. Fresh oil, holy fire,
and you want fresh oil. I believe there's a fresh
annoying coming upon God's church. Indeed, just like God anointed
(18:14):
David three times, he is anointing us for this season,
for such a time as this, which is a fresh
infusion of the Holy Spirit. And I pray for fresh
oil for everyone there right. And then there's holy fire.
The fire of God is now punitive. It is a
protective fire. It is a preserving fire. It is a
preparative fire, It is a pruning fire. It's the fire
(18:35):
of God that sanctifies you and purifies you mind bodies.
So in spirit versus Salonians five twenty three. So I
believe in holy fire. Remember Paul when he got to Malta,
a snake came out, grabbed a hold of his head.
He shook it off and put it in the fire,
because the snakes hate fire. Wherever there's holy fire, I
will show you a snake freeze out. So if your
life was full of the Holy Spirit. All these are metaphors,
(18:56):
biblically substantiated metaphors or the Holy Spirit, fresh oil, Holy Spirit,
Holy Spirit, new wine only through the Holy Spirit. So
if you're full of holy fire, your life will be
a snake free zone. And I talk about that fire
on the altar, never being christ never being turned off.
And then there's new wine, which is new joy. It's
that new peace, that new infusion for you to change
(19:18):
the world around you, where your prayer life changes you.
No longer go God bless me, you start praying, make
me the blessing to everyone I know. That's the power
of God. And so I wrote this book for everyone
who wants a fresh, annoying, fresh fire, new wine in
order for you to fill the earth with the glory
of Jesus.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
That's awesome. That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
I think it's it's sad today that too many, too
many people, too many Christians, live in fear, and they
do drink the kool aid. They really think that everything
is falling apart and there's no redemption. I don't know
how you could live in that mindset knowing the power
of the Holy Ghost.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
But there is a lot of unfortunately, and I want
to remind everyone that the battle is between your mind
and your mantle. That's the real battle. The real battles
between your memories and your imagination. It's between the thoughts
in your head and the calling of God upon your life.
It's between trauma and testimony. It's between drama and destiny.
And it's between the prophetic and the pathetic. That's the
(20:21):
real battle. But the battle has already been won on
the cross. Jesus won the battle First Corinthians fifteen fifty seven.
He already won the battle. So the battle has already
been Hens Romans eight thirty seven. We are more than conquerors.
Hence First John four four.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Creator is he that is in me right?
Speaker 3 (20:40):
The battle has been won.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
And man, So I don't understand. I guess the mindset
of some Christians who just insist on doom and gloom
all the time. You know, they their whole focus is
and everything that's wrong with the world rather than everything's
that could be right with the world. To me, that
is prophetic is being able to see and express what
(21:07):
is right or what could be right in the world,
rather than just focusing only on this is wrong, this
is wrong, this is wrong. But say, hey, this is
what could be if we turned to God.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
We have two options. You could either focus on the darkness.
I could walk into a room right now, let's see
a dark room. Let's say, you know, I go in there, Bryce, Jared,
and Sam walk into a room. It's completely dark. Lights
are all. We have two options. We could all three
of us who are Pentecostal walk in there. We could
start praying, Lord, come on, I come against the darkness.
And sometimes it's necessary, but we could pray about the darkness.
(21:41):
We can Bass, we can speak in tongues for an hour.
We can rebut the darkness or how about this, Bryce, Jared,
if and Sam fight to find the light switch and
we turn on the light. You know, what that's what
we should do. Instead of whining complaining about the darkness.
Why don't you turn on the light? Every single time
light stands next to darkness, light always wins Matthew five
(22:03):
fourteen through sixteen. That's your mission statement. In my mission statement,
you are the light of the world. A city on
a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do you light a
lamp and place it under a bowl, but rther you
place it on its stand, so we can shine before
all men, that they may give glory to the Father
in heaven. There it is, that's our mission statement. Turn
on the light. And how do you do it? How
(22:26):
do you do it by living a holy, healed, healthy, happy, humble, hungry,
honoring life. That's how you do it, by living a
life fuill to the Holy Spirit according to God's word.
Where Jesus is your everything. Jesus is not part of
what you do. It's not in the periphery and the margins.
It's not an afterthought. Jesus defines you do everything of Jesus,
his crucifixion, his blood, his resurrection, his spirit, his word.
(22:50):
Christ define Samuel Rodriguez. Hence I am crucified with Christ. Nevertheless,
I live because Christ defines me that should be the
way we should think and the way we should behave.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Absolutely I agree.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
So so in our community, I know we've bryce you've
you and I have both been involved in mystery with
kids and teenagers. A lot and a lot of that
is in the Sapanish Hispanic community, the Spanish speaking families.
There's there seems to be a tension with parents either.
(23:25):
Parents don't really want their kids to to lose touch
with their roots, but they don't also don't want them
to not be successful, so they want them to learn English,
they want them to do those things. But there always
is a little bit of attention. It's been a little
tough with families. Breaking through with families in that community.
(23:45):
It's really easy to fill up the church, uh church vans,
fill up events, fill up church services with teens and
and youth and kids, which by all means that's great,
But breaking through with those families, I really feel like
that the move that the Holy Spirit is the way
it's been moving in Seymour is primarily in that community.
(24:08):
But it's been tough to break through with the families.
And I don't know what the do you have any
experience with that, what is the wall we're trying to
break through?
Speaker 3 (24:19):
There? In every community, be it Latino, be it European
migrants who came here originally, the Irish, the Italians and others,
and even now currently Ukrainians and Slavic communities, there is
always a very self preserving mechanism that is in eight
to every single ethnicity. Every ethnicity has an element of
(24:39):
self preservation. Be it the Vikings, who are very like,
let's not contaminate ourselves of anyone else. Let's preserve this.
How dare we connect with the Germans, or let's connect
with the French or the Italians. Let's preserve the Norwegian, Norway, Finland, Sweden,
the Viking Way. There is self preservation embedded in every community. However,
(25:00):
when we define ourselves primarily through the finished work of Christ,
when God becomes everything in our lives, the vertical trumps
the horizontal. So when I wake up in the morning,
I don't see myself primarily as and I'm a proud American,
you know, for generations deep, but I don't see myself
primarily number one as an American or American of Hispanic
(25:21):
just said Sam Rodrigue, seasons up in the morning, I
go like, that's a child of God. I'm the byproduct
of the finished work of Christ. I am what Jesus
paid the price for on the cross, the redeemed of
the Lord. And so my Christianity defines me. My vertical
defines me. My horizontal is important, but it's horizontal. My
(25:41):
vertical defines me. And so there's always going to be
a little bit attention in the beginning. But second and
third generations are more prone to assimilate and to fully
become an integrated part of the process because there's no
longer any primary safeguards keeping them.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Away, and that some of that may be the language barrier.
We offer translation and things like that, but the language
barrier may be part of the difficulty as well, because
it's not always as easy for the parents. You know,
they're not as sure of course.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
And and you know, the language is fear, interprenation. You
know you're gonna you're gonna question what they're hearing and
so forth. But that again, that'll go because supernaturally, all
three of us believe that the spirit of that, the
Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, can go in there
and change hearts and minds. So we it's there's a
supernatural element that we can deny. God will show up
and convict the parents and so forth. So yeah, the
(26:34):
fastest growing church in America right now is the Hispanic Church.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
I believe it. I believe it.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
And we've been We've been praying obviously for the family
that Bryce was fostering. Uh age boy, there's a there's
a whole family involved. There other families that we've been
involved with that we've prayed, and we have seen progress.
It's like we have to be patient. I guess it's
God's timing too. But sure we've seen progress bit by
(27:01):
bit where more and more and more of the family
have started to come around and want to get baptized.
One will start attending church, you know, and and I
can see over the course of a couple of years
the peace is moving around.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
But it's we get impatient.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
I feel wait upon the Lord of my friends.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yeah, that that is.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Tough, especially when you're when you get your heart involved.
We've we've got some families, obviously Bryce and his wife
more than me because they were fostering.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
That's a whole other level.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
But uh yeah, we have some families have gotten very
close to and it's it can be frustrating at times.
It can it can be a little difficult at times.
The culture I speak a little Spanish, but the culture
barrier is still a thing. I feel like it's the
especially in the first generation immigrants don't really understand. We
(27:52):
don't really understand each other as well. But but God
has work.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Just coming agree with and you've got for the best. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Amen, that's right. So let me ask you this. You've
written fourteen books, right, is that?
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Is that true?
Speaker 3 (28:10):
That's accurate? You know, so somewhere in the neighborhood I
lost count.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
It's a lot, it seems like a lot. So how
do you How do you keep it straight? How do
you all the things you're doing? Because you're doing a lot,
and I have trouble with keeping my mind on track
just to do a podcast for an hour? So how
do you? How do you keep everything organized? How do
you make these things happen? And how do how are
you so productive?
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (28:35):
I have some rub brikes that guide me. I have
some guardrails that guide me. So the guard it's identity, intimacy, integrity, influence,
and innovation. Know who you are, identity, who you are
in Christ, who Christ is in you, identity, who you are.
Then you have spiritual intimacy, my spiritual discipline of prayer
every day, getting into God's word, uh, just pursuing righteousness.
(28:56):
That spiritual intimacy is everything. And then you get into integrity.
When your integrity is greater than your influence, nothing can
stop you nothing. So you have to make sure integrity
is greater than influence. When you're driven by annointing rather
than ambition, nothing can stop you. And so integrity and
after integrity, you have this amazing thing called influence, but
(29:18):
only if that influence follows integrity. And that's how you
make sure that it's all honoring to God. It's not
self serving or narcissistic, but you manage it with humility.
Humility is the wine skin that manages the favor of God.
So your influence has to be used for the glory
of Christ first Corinthians ten thirty one and in the
name of Jesus Colosi in three seventeen. And then the
(29:39):
last thing is innovation. So if you're doing any eyes
is identity. It's identity you know and you know who
you are. You know, and it's intimacy, integrity, influence and
the last one is innovation. Innovation is creativity, new ideas.
I manage them because I have great people that help
me in all of my silos. I surround myself with
people that have more faith than I do. You are
(30:02):
who surround you. Always surround yourself with people that pray
more than you do, because it's they lift up your
game and you don't have to drag anyone across the line.
They push you to get to the line. So surround
yourself with the right people. That's just the secret of success.
According to scripture, surround yourself with the right people. And
so that's critical. And ken just keep on pursuing righteousness
(30:26):
and know who you are in Christ, the have a
holy heel of healthy, happy, humble, hungry, honoring life, and
live that life change the world around you.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah, I guess my problem with I've been working on
a book idea, trying to write a book, and the
problem is I'm trying to write like fifteen books because
every time I get one page written on this idea,
I have a new idea, and I have a hard
time not chasing new ideas and coming back to the
to work the one. So I think that having someone
(31:01):
almost like accountability not just help to help you, but
also keep you kind of on track. It accountable might
be a good a good point.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Indeed, you need to thround yourself with a team. We
can't do this by ourselves. From Adam and Eve to
Moses and Joshua, Joshua and Caleb, Eli Jah and Elisha,
Paul and silas I, Dreg Michigan and Bendigou you name it, right,
Nark and John, Peter and John and the Bible. Christ
(31:27):
commissioned the Apostles. What was that two by two? You
were not meant to do as by ourselves. Yeah, that's
we have to be surrounded by the right people. Imagine
if you have the right people in the right atmosphere
and the imagine if your heart, your head in your
hand are in perfect alignment, you can't be stopped. It's
you're you're un for because of Jesus operating in you.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
And I think it's so much a part of American
culture that we just we want to say we did
it on our own, or we want to we want
to be self sufficient, all these things. But I don't
think it's really healthy and it's not really biblical.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Well, it's not you are, who's around you? Indeed?
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, absolutely, so you're listed. Okay, this I found this
interesting as well. Obviously I googled you and h and
trying to learn everything.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Yeah, well, you.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Know, I tried to learn everything we could about you.
I'm sure we're missing a few things. But but uh,
the list of I think it was Newsmax or somebody,
I don't know who it was. Now it's some kind
of news magazine, uh news Week.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Anyway, one of.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Those did a list of top megachurches and they listed
yours as not number thirteen. Now I don't know how
they define megachurch. I don't know. I know there are
depending on who you are and where you are and
what church you attend, you probably have different ideas of
what that means. But I've heard a lot of positive
(32:54):
and negative talk about what is considered megachurch culture and
how you know, large churches are affecting Christianity in America,
either positively or negatively depending on how you talk to
How how is your church at I don't even know
what your what your attendants attendance is, what your membership is,
(33:15):
But like in your mind, what is good about your
church culture?
Speaker 1 (33:23):
In your local assembly.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Yeah, we don't. I think the technical application by studies
and surveys and defined years ago megachurch has to be
I think it's two thousand or more in attendance and
that sort of thing. So our church is a multi
it's a Christ centered, Bible based, spirit empowered, multi ethnic,
(33:48):
kingdom culture, multi generational church. And we look like Kevin
as I referenced before, we're multi generational. We don't quench
your spirit. We're not weird, but we're wired. We're wired.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
We're wired, wired explained, That's how I explained. I should
have explained that to you years ago. He Brice was
a Baptist when he came to the Pentegostal church. Look
at that, so that would have been a perfect way
to describe it.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Yeah, yeah, we're not weird, we're wired. So it it's
it defines us. So it's you know, it's a beautiful church.
God's growing it. And however other people describe as that's
up to them. We don't. We don't do self you know,
flattery descriptors. It's we're we're focusing on one thing, filling
Europe with the glory of Jesus. We want to see
people save delivered and healed and filled the Holy Spirit
(34:37):
every single Sunday. That's at objective. So when when we
measure things, when when I'm traveling and I send a
message to my team, I will ask him, you know
the three a's, and it begins with this anointing question mark,
how is the anointing today? Second question is alters question mark?
And then the third question is attendance and it's number three.
(35:01):
So it's first as anointing, second is alters, and third
is in And so that should be like the lay
out the priorities, right.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Yeah, that makes sense. I love it.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
I think that's I think a lot of times the
assumption is made by people in smaller churches or pastors
of smaller churches that if you're in a large church
that maybe all you care about is numbers or all
you care about it. Yeah, but that's not I don't
think that's the case at all.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
In some cases.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Maybe, but after I preach, I run out and greet
people and I try to agree as many people as possible,
and because you know, it's it's relational. Yet you could
have community in a large church. It has to be intentional,
you have to build it. But small groups are critical
for a church. First, for a large church to thrive,
because you want to have that element of community, a
(35:48):
face to face, and so it's doable. I really don't
buy into the whole megachurch versus non megachurchy. I don't.
That's not my worldview. I don't think about it. I
don't pray about it. I don't template it. I don't.
It's not part of my DNA. I just we just
do church and uh, you know, and God shows up
and people show up, and when God and people show up,
(36:09):
the world changes.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Absolutely love it.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
So that's so basically you're saying, it's just the differences
are administrative.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
It's just the church itself. It's not it's not different.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
No, no, it's not different. Yeah, it's church's church and
and he and I, you know, there's and we should
be you know, looking around the diversity. Not every church
should be or could be a Megican church. There are
people that thrive in small churches. There are people that
will never ever feel comfortable or be discipled in a
large church. Hence God created small churches. God created medium
(36:43):
sized churches. And then there are people that, for whatever reason,
they see a mega church and that's that's their element. Amen,
it's diversity. It's almost it's all about Jesus. I'm good
with it. The moment it stops being about Jesus, I'm
not good with it.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
That's right. I love it.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
That's Christ has to be the center, right, otherwise it's
not everything.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
That's the apostle. Paul's writing, Christ is my everything. He said, Amen,
I love it.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
So I think that we've we've kind of struggled as
we've grown to do what you What you said is
I have community, have discipleship. Small groups are important, but
trying to figure out like how that's the challenge. I
think when you move from small to not as small
to however you define that, and then larger, it's it's
(37:32):
figuring out how to make that community work on a
bigger scale, because it is the more the more people
you have, the less close each of them. Yes, So
in your case, you fixed that with that problem with
small groups, right, Yep.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
We have small groups, and these small groups provide a
community infrastructure that enables us to have the gatherings that
we do on Sundays and so forth. But we're undergirded
by small groups. It's our foundation indeed.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Okay, so when you say that this is big, you're
making me think you you're making the wheels turn because
when I think of small groups, like, I'm very familiar
with the concept, and we've had them and and in
some capacity we have them. But it was kind of
a not it was definitely not the foundation. Of course,
our church is seventy years old. Yeah, so it's it's
(38:23):
a very very much wasn't really a concept when our
church was founded. So but as the foundation, small groups
work a lot differently than as a Bolton fix after
the fact, for sure.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
That's correct. So you know, post Pentecost it was small groups.
Small groups gathered home gatherings a Book of Acts, remember,
and they shared their stuff and supplies and so forth.
These small groups inevitably provided the churches, especially after Constantine,
and they took over the Roman temples and converted temples
into buildings, buildings into sanctuaries and cathedrals. I see evolution
(38:59):
of it. Four churches weren't homes, and homes to church
was illegal prior to Constantine. So then it was post
fact though that things change. So small groups have been
from the Book of Acts down the foundational framework for
the church. So I argue that you need to have
(39:19):
home If families are not meeting, if we don't have
household ministries, if church is not meeting in home and
in the church, then we're going to have some issues
down the road. Churches that thrived during COVID were churches
that had the home element, the small group element well structured.
Because if all you were accustomed to was coming to
church on Sunday without any small group community, then COVID
(39:42):
came along. In certain states you were restricted from going
to church. Then you went alllined and you became an
allline parishioner and all that and all of that was
mitigated if you had small groups.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Absolutely, yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah, I think it's definitely an important factor, and it's probably
a key and it's probably something that we need to
incorporate at a deeper level. I know, life groups have
been very popular concept with a lot of churches, you know,
the idea of doing life together and you know, interest
based groups, and that's something that we have a little
(40:17):
bit of going on. I'm sure kind of just naturally,
you know, we're not necessarily promoting it, but it just
happens and I think that's also helpful because every time
the people of the church are together, that the churches together,
even if it isn't a small group, or it's it
is playing golf or whatever they're doing fellowship, it's still
(40:39):
an important and beautiful thing.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Indeed, indeed, so I would encourage everyone to seek building
community outside the confines of the Sunday service. You want
to reinforce, get into God's word, do life together, pray together,
fast together, do devotionals together, and do it in community
that will enable you to come on Sunday, receive a pression,
knowing a pression, partition, and to change the world around
you Monday New Saturday.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
That's absolutely appreciate it. Well, we greatly appreciate you coming
on to two minute costles and a microphone and talking
to us. Tell us where we can connect with you
if you have questions.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Or sure a pastor Sam dot com. You want to
get the book, you go to Amazon and you get
the book Fresh Oil, Holy Fire, New Wine. You can
watch this on television, different television, TBN, Day Star, Roku,
Fox News, Uh, you name it the Victory Channel. So
absolutely follow us, watch our movies. Give God all the glory,
(41:38):
Lift up the name of Jesus, and let's do one
thing together. Let's go change the world.
Hey, it's Jaredith. So glad to be back with you all.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
We took a little time off, not as much as
we've taken in the past, but we did have a
little break while we were moving offices and studios and
now I'm in my new space, so back on the grind.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Hopefully.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
We have some more episodes coming at you regularly every
week or two, starting with this one, and this is
a great one. We sat down with Pastor Sam Samuel Rodriguez,
who many of you may know. He's a multi hyphenate
evangelical leader and you can see him involved in movie production,
(00:37):
as a pastor, author, civil rights activist. You'll see him
on TV like everywhere you look. So we sit down
with him for an interesting and enlightening interview. We talked
to him about what it's like to do some of
the things he does, and especially pastoring a megachurch, and
what it's like to do evangelism and even more so
(01:02):
discipleship on a large scale. So we think you'll enjoy
this episode with Pastor Sam. Welcome back to two Pentecostals
and a microphone. Me and Bryce a here of course,
and we are joined by Pastor Sam. Samuel Rodriguez, who
(01:23):
some of you may know, some of you may not.
He is a pastor of a large church in California.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Right, sure, if you say so, I believe you, Jared.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
We'll go with that.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
He is on the board at or Roberts University. He
is a lot of things, a film producer, author, and
I actually watched one of his films recently that he
was involved with. Anyway, a lot of things to a
lot of people in the Pentecostal movement. And he is
president of the tell me the name of the organization
(01:58):
one more time.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Should know Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
That's it. That's the one. That's the one, that's.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
The one on the one of the long acronyms.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yes, yeah, there's so many acronyms. All right. So we
are glad to have you on.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
We are we are excited to get into this and
uh to start it off, I guess welcome.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Thank you guys for having me. Blessed to be with you.
I'm having a conversation with two Pentecostals. Who does that?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Right?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So let me ask you are with the assemblies of
God or are you independent?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Or I'm an independent? I'm an independent with the Assembies
of God. I'm a part time comedian, guys, so you
have to work with me.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yes, yes and no no.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
I am a I grew up Assemblies of God and
I'm Assembly of God credentialed. Yes, okay, but but but
we have the network we oversee includes uh you name it,
different Pentecostal denominations and streams, and uh, yeah, we're we're
we just work across the spirited power spectrum.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Awesome. Cool.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
So Bryce and I are both with the United Pentecostal Church,
which at some point in the past was part of
I don't know how that exactly worked, but was associated
with the AOG I believe at some point in our history. Yes,
and I think there was a that's either the split
or the merger. I hear all these different terms, and
I don't remember which is.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Which someone else's someone split is someone else's merger, my friend,
it's total matter of perspective.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
That is true. That is true, So great to have
you on. I think you're our first AOG pastor that
we've talked.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Well, I mean.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
That well again, yeah, it's not. Yeah, Pentecostal the label
I'm not a myopic with not even though I honored
the beautiful you know, facilitative bomb that gave birth to
us and provides that that sort of support mechanism. But
we were across the Pentecostal spectrum across from UPC to
a G, the Church of God to four square across
(03:57):
the board. So it's it's what defines is Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Very cool. Okay, that's that's good to know. All right.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
So you have a lot of a lot of credentials.
I think that's kind of what I found interesting at
first was that you do so many different things. And
Bryce was telling me that he had watched one of
your films that you were involved with, and I had
not seen it. But Bryce, did you want to ask
something about that?
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Well, yeah, I so, my wife and I became foster
parents last year and we end up fostering a Guatemalan teenager.
Very very interesting experience to say the least. But he
loves everything spicy, spicy food, all that stuff, and we
(04:48):
came across the flaming hot Yeah, and it was It
was really cool because it was actually one of the
last movies we watched before he went back home with mom,
and so it's kind of a special special movie with
us and I really really enjoy it, very inspiring. But
I'm curious, like, how do how does a pastor, you know,
(05:13):
get into into film and into producing movies and especially
attributed by Disney and Disney.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Yeah, yeah, well no, it took place. It took place
being the conduit of some years ago, the Good Lord
gave me a word regarding movies and and through someone
a very recognized prophetic voice in the Pentecostal world, someone
who is there's a fine line between the prophetic and
the pathetic. And this person came in with legitimacy, meaning
it's biblically undergirded, and the word this person's prophetic mantle
(05:46):
has been tested. This person's batting a thousand, So there's
no ambiguity right regarding the certainty. So it's so the
person gave a word years ago, said Sammy, God says Hollywood.
He's opening up Hollywood for you. I had no interest
in Hollywood, no desire, no interest, no passion. Matter of fact,
I would preach against Hollywood. Right after that word, I
(06:06):
get a call from Paramount Studios to consult on a film.
To consult, I started writing scripts. I started working with
Mark Barnett and Roma Downey, serving them in some of
their initiatives Son of God, Bible ad series and so forth.
And then I started helping out with some scripts. And
then I did a little bit of anthing, one of
the God's Not Dead movies. You'll see me there for
a millennial minute. I did some anthing and then I
(06:29):
saw I heard a story about a young man what
Amolliam boy who died in Saint Charles Lake in Missouri
out Church of Saint Louis. That he died and he
was dead for an hour and eight minutes. The Holy
Spirit prompted me and staid, you're making that story into
a movie. How I had no connection to the production
element of it, but God did tell me, you go
(06:51):
make it into a movie, and we did. It was
my first movie breakthrough. It was very successful around the world,
and they was nominated for an Academy Award for Best
Originals All and it went viral and then the Flaming
Hot Same Thing. A friend of mine, Richard served on
my board. I looked at him and said, I'm going
to make your story into a movie that that's been
promised by other people. I go, I'm not other people.
(07:13):
And God enabled me to make his story into a
movie with Disney, the other one with twentieth Century Fox.
So I make movies, and I love Christian studios, but
not with Christian studios. I make movies in order to
be light in the midst of darkness. I want to
make faith, family friendly movies that will invade the darkness
with the anoying of God. And every single time life
(07:36):
stands next to darkness, life always wins.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Right, Absolutely, that's that's so true. I love your heart
in that because I think there's so so much garbage
out there, and we just seed more and more light.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Yep. Indeed, and us Jesus has a purpose for Hollywood,
and I belie believe that we're about to see the
fullness of the finished work of Christ made evident in
every spirit of society, including Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
I agree with that.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
I think it's so important that we don't just write
off certain parts of society, like I think the church,
conservative Church has a tendency to do that with Hollywood,
with with politics, with certain certain aspects of culture that
I think God wants to to redeem, especially those people
that are I mean, those are people politicians.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Believe it or not, are still people.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Well, and you have some you have some experience with
that as well, advising a few presidents right.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
By the grace of God. Again, I was twelve years
old in the Pentecostal church. A guy walked in there
and never met me before ever. This is back in
the day, this is in the previous century. This is
before Google and even Internet. And he comes in there
and in the middle of the song he's a team challenge.
Choir director's name is Bernie Delot, so I'll give you names.
(08:56):
It's been well documented and there's programs on this and
so forth. He walked there and I'm twelve years older,
and he says, there's a Sami in this place, a Sami,
a Sami in church right, never been there before, and
just the word of wisdom, word of knowledge. And my
pastor says, hey, you're the only Sam. Come up. He's
calling you, and I'm going, oh, man, if this rapture
thing is real, come Lord Jesus, come, and like this
(09:17):
guy just called me out by name and everything I'm
doing now he laid out. And he concluded by saying,
you will be praying for presidents of the United States
of America. That's pretty crazy because if you got that
wrong I would be an atheist or agnostic right now,
So you better make certainness of God. It was of God.
I've been an advisor to George W. Bush, Barack Obama,
(09:39):
and Donald Trump, and I didn't have to vote for
them in order to advise them. I'm a pro lifer
and I have biblical values that guide me how I vote.
But I advise all three of them because God gave
me a word, he put an assignment, and it's all
part of his plan Ephesians two times. So yeah, I've
had the privilege of advising three different presidents. I prayed
for two presidents rations by the grace of God and
(10:01):
for the glory of his name, the first Latino to
do so in American history, and I was. I was
the first Pentecostal according to what we understand. Wikipedia, I
think says it the first mine Costal in American history
to have prayed for a presidential inauguration, because then PAULA.
White and all that did it after I did it.
So so to God be all the glory that's all
(10:21):
Him in order to fill the earth with the glory
of Jesus Man.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
That's awesome, wow, very cool. So I have to ask
we were just watching a clip today. Bryce sent me
a clip of a sermon you're preaching, and I wanted
to ask you something along these lines, but I didn't
know how we could work it in. But since you
were recently talking about it, I guess it's a good
question for you. We've been our church in rural southern
(10:47):
Indiana has grown a lot over the last what year
and a half or so. Nearly all of that growth
has been in a historically all you know, white middle
well basically white middle class church has been in the
Hispanic community and in the patient community. So we have
we have services now with interpretation and Creole and Spanish,
(11:11):
and we've had a Spanish We've had a Spanish convert
a Spanish service as well for quite a while several years.
But now we have several Hispanic members in our English
service and we have our Spanish service as well. So
there's always this tension I feel between a cultural church,
you know, a Spanish church, a Black church, a white church,
(11:35):
and how that kind of cultural church can relate so
well to the culture of that of that community. You know,
a black church member in a black church is being
ministered to in a way that is very relatable or
or you know, whatever the case is. That's that's a
beautiful thing and of itself. But I think what is
(11:56):
also a beautiful thing is when a church comes together,
this truly multicultural and looks like Heaven and they're worshiping together.
It's a little more difficult, it's a little more messy.
How do you how do you view that tension? Is
there a better option? Is one better than the other?
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Is it both? Yes?
Speaker 3 (12:14):
No, it's any any gathering right Matthew eighteen. Any gathering
Versus sixteenth through nineteen. Any gathering in the name of
Jesus and Hebrews undergirds at is beautiful, Amen, regardless of
the being. If it's one group age wise ethnicy. But
(12:34):
there is a better presentation. It's laid out in Revelation
chapter five. All nations are racist, all credos worshiping the
lamp together. I passed through a multi epic church. My
church is forty percent white, which is in forty percent Black,
twenty percent Latino, Native Americans and Asians. It's primarily millennial.
It's sixteen percent millennial and then Generation Z, so it's
(12:55):
very young. But millennials and Generation Z. Unless you live
in the rural part of Indiana. It that's changing. Unless
you live in North Dakota, Montana, where you know you can't.
You have to travel like three hundred miles to find
any other ethnicity. You know you have no other choice.
Your church should reflect the community you're at, period period.
If your church does not reflect the community you're in. So,
(13:17):
if you live in a city that's very multi ethnically diverse,
but your church is completely black, I have problems with that.
I do. If your church is completely white and the
church has multiethnic be diverse, I have problems with that.
How about this, if your church is completely just brown Latina,
I have problems with that because your church should reflect,
should serve and win everyone every color. And in our church,
(13:41):
we don't even call it multicultural. We call it a
multi ethnic kingdom culture church. We should be elevating a
culture of the Kingdom and God blessed diversity. White people
are beautiful, Black people are beautiful, Brown people are beautiful,
Asians are beautiful. Every color is beautiful. However, that tapestry
that mosaic mean together, it's prophetic. It's pentecost remember pentecost
(14:03):
acts too, of course, Hey, yeah, you know Pentecost I
know Pentocausta. They spoke the languages around them, right. It
became the multi ethnic kingdom culture expression. Pentecost by his
very definition, requires or demands a multi ethnic, multi lingual expression,
So we need to be I can tell you this
(14:24):
in the next the Lord Terry's in the next twenty
thirty years, the majority of Pentecostal churches in America will
be a multi ethnic unless you live in North Dakota,
unless you live like in Alaska, in a field somewhere
where everyone's an Eskimo. You know, I get that, because
what are you gonna do bust them in from like Anchorage,
So it's not but you know, yeah, the majorities would
be a multi ethic because it looks like Heavin man,
(14:46):
it does.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yes, And that's our experience. I was hoping you would
say that because that's kind of what I was. That's
the way I feel about it. I know that experience
in our local church has changed so much in the
last couple of years because of that shift in the
because the culture or the makeup I guess the demographics.
It's been shifting in our community for years, but the
church was definitely lagging. Our congregation was lagging, but it's
(15:10):
been nothing but a blessing. There are challenges that come
with it, but.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Yeah, but those are cultural challenges that you overcome through
the finished work of Christ. Because what defines is primarily
is not the color of our skin. Well, what brings us,
what brings us together, is the Holy Spirit inside of us, right,
the Spirit of Christ. So because of that, it's to
the finished work of Christ that we come together. Yeah,
it's John seventeen twenty one, make them one as we
(15:36):
are one. It's that clary and call that prayer.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
And so you talk about the work of the Spirit.
I mean that's exactly how I see it, because without
the work of the Spirit, it is too.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Difficult for some people.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
If people will let the Spirit work through them, then
then everybody, no matter how difficult they think it is,
they can work it out.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
They can make it.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
They can prefer their brother, they can allow the church
to be.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
The Holy Spirit. Trump's culture, politics, education, economies, the Holy Spirit,
Trump's absolutely.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Everything, absolutely, one hundred percent. So that I mean that
brings us to your book. I guess the new book
is is on that topic of the Holy Spirit. So
how do you how do you see the Holy Spirit
moving in the uh in cultural Christianity today. It's I
think there's a lot of problems right now with with
(16:35):
what I call cultural Christianity, But I think you you
have a unique insight into that from your position as
pastor and being involved in Hollywood all these things.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Yeah, No, the Holy Spirit. The reason I wrote this
book Fresh Oil, Holy Fire, and New Wine is to
push to provide a pushback to the idea that the
most powerful spirit on the planet today is the spirit
of fear, anxiety, depression, shame, condemnation, hedonism, perversion, moral decadence,
spiritual apathy, relativism. No, man, I mean, these things are alive.
We don't deny them. Right. The apostle Paul writes in
(17:08):
Ephesian six twelve, we're battling not against flesh and blood,
and then he tells us to put on the armor
of God. We understand that, however, the most powerful spirit
on the planet, it's not the spirit of Jezbel bao
A have Goliath, Navik and ezer Herod, or even the
anti Christ. The most powerful spirit on the planet is
still the Holy Spirit of Almighty God. The Holy Spirit
is still moving, The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ
(17:31):
is moving on this planet, moving mightily and powerfully. And
wherever that spirit is present, there is power Acts one eight.
There is freedom second Corinthians three seventeen, there is holiness
Galatians five sixteen, there is victory Romans eight eleven. And
there is annoying one John two twenty seven. That's the
Holy Spirit. He's moving mightily. The Spirit of Christ is moving.
(17:53):
Jesus via the conduit of his spirit is moving. So
I don't drink the kool aid, man. I'm not like
embracing the whole negative news, all wrong, going to hell.
And I have asked it quickly. God is moving, and
that's why I wrote this book. Fresh oil, holy fire,
and you want fresh oil. I believe there's a fresh
annoying coming upon God's church. Indeed, just like God anointed
(18:14):
David three times, he is anointing us for this season,
for such a time as this, which is a fresh
infusion of the Holy Spirit. And I pray for fresh
oil for everyone there right. And then there's holy fire.
The fire of God is now punitive. It is a
protective fire. It is a preserving fire. It is a
preparative fire, It is a pruning fire. It's the fire
(18:35):
of God that sanctifies you and purifies you mind bodies.
So in spirit versus Salonians five twenty three. So I
believe in holy fire. Remember Paul when he got to Malta,
a snake came out, grabbed a hold of his head.
He shook it off and put it in the fire,
because the snakes hate fire. Wherever there's holy fire, I
will show you a snake freeze out. So if your
life was full of the Holy Spirit. All these are metaphors,
(18:56):
biblically substantiated metaphors or the Holy Spirit, fresh oil, Holy Spirit,
Holy Spirit, new wine only through the Holy Spirit. So
if you're full of holy fire, your life will be
a snake free zone. And I talk about that fire
on the altar, never being christ never being turned off.
And then there's new wine, which is new joy. It's
that new peace, that new infusion for you to change
(19:18):
the world around you, where your prayer life changes you.
No longer go God bless me, you start praying, make
me the blessing to everyone I know. That's the power
of God. And so I wrote this book for everyone
who wants a fresh, annoying, fresh fire, new wine in
order for you to fill the earth with the glory
of Jesus.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
That's awesome. That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
I think it's it's sad today that too many, too
many people, too many Christians, live in fear, and they
do drink the kool aid. They really think that everything
is falling apart and there's no redemption. I don't know
how you could live in that mindset knowing the power
of the Holy Ghost.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
But there is a lot of unfortunately, and I want
to remind everyone that the battle is between your mind
and your mantle. That's the real battle. The real battles
between your memories and your imagination. It's between the thoughts
in your head and the calling of God upon your life.
It's between trauma and testimony. It's between drama and destiny.
And it's between the prophetic and the pathetic. That's the
(20:21):
real battle. But the battle has already been won on
the cross. Jesus won the battle First Corinthians fifteen fifty seven.
He already won the battle. So the battle has already
been Hens Romans eight thirty seven. We are more than conquerors.
Hence First John four four.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Creator is he that is in me right?
Speaker 3 (20:40):
The battle has been won.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
And man, So I don't understand. I guess the mindset
of some Christians who just insist on doom and gloom
all the time. You know, they their whole focus is
and everything that's wrong with the world rather than everything's
that could be right with the world. To me, that
is prophetic is being able to see and express what
(21:07):
is right or what could be right in the world,
rather than just focusing only on this is wrong, this
is wrong, this is wrong. But say, hey, this is
what could be if we turned to God.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
We have two options. You could either focus on the darkness.
I could walk into a room right now, let's see
a dark room. Let's say, you know, I go in there, Bryce, Jared,
and Sam walk into a room. It's completely dark. Lights
are all. We have two options. We could all three
of us who are Pentecostal walk in there. We could
start praying, Lord, come on, I come against the darkness.
And sometimes it's necessary, but we could pray about the darkness.
(21:41):
We can Bass, we can speak in tongues for an hour.
We can rebut the darkness or how about this, Bryce, Jared,
if and Sam fight to find the light switch and
we turn on the light. You know, what that's what
we should do. Instead of whining complaining about the darkness.
Why don't you turn on the light? Every single time
light stands next to darkness, light always wins Matthew five
(22:03):
fourteen through sixteen. That's your mission statement. In my mission statement,
you are the light of the world. A city on
a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do you light a
lamp and place it under a bowl, but rther you
place it on its stand, so we can shine before
all men, that they may give glory to the Father
in heaven. There it is, that's our mission statement. Turn
on the light. And how do you do it? How
(22:26):
do you do it by living a holy, healed, healthy, happy, humble, hungry,
honoring life. That's how you do it, by living a
life fuill to the Holy Spirit according to God's word.
Where Jesus is your everything. Jesus is not part of
what you do. It's not in the periphery and the margins.
It's not an afterthought. Jesus defines you do everything of Jesus,
his crucifixion, his blood, his resurrection, his spirit, his word.
(22:50):
Christ define Samuel Rodriguez. Hence I am crucified with Christ. Nevertheless,
I live because Christ defines me that should be the
way we should think and the way we should behave.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Absolutely I agree.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
So so in our community, I know we've bryce you've
you and I have both been involved in mystery with
kids and teenagers. A lot and a lot of that
is in the Sapanish Hispanic community, the Spanish speaking families.
There's there seems to be a tension with parents either.
(23:25):
Parents don't really want their kids to to lose touch
with their roots, but they don't also don't want them
to not be successful, so they want them to learn English,
they want them to do those things. But there always
is a little bit of attention. It's been a little
tough with families. Breaking through with families in that community.
(23:45):
It's really easy to fill up the church, uh church vans,
fill up events, fill up church services with teens and
and youth and kids, which by all means that's great,
But breaking through with those families, I really feel like
that the move that the Holy Spirit is the way
it's been moving in Seymour is primarily in that community.
(24:08):
But it's been tough to break through with the families.
And I don't know what the do you have any
experience with that, what is the wall we're trying to
break through?
Speaker 3 (24:19):
There? In every community, be it Latino, be it European
migrants who came here originally, the Irish, the Italians and others,
and even now currently Ukrainians and Slavic communities, there is
always a very self preserving mechanism that is in eight
to every single ethnicity. Every ethnicity has an element of
(24:39):
self preservation. Be it the Vikings, who are very like,
let's not contaminate ourselves of anyone else. Let's preserve this.
How dare we connect with the Germans, or let's connect
with the French or the Italians. Let's preserve the Norwegian, Norway, Finland, Sweden,
the Viking Way. There is self preservation embedded in every community. However,
(25:00):
when we define ourselves primarily through the finished work of Christ,
when God becomes everything in our lives, the vertical trumps
the horizontal. So when I wake up in the morning,
I don't see myself primarily as and I'm a proud American,
you know, for generations deep, but I don't see myself
primarily number one as an American or American of Hispanic
(25:21):
just said Sam Rodrigue, seasons up in the morning, I
go like, that's a child of God. I'm the byproduct
of the finished work of Christ. I am what Jesus
paid the price for on the cross, the redeemed of
the Lord. And so my Christianity defines me. My vertical
defines me. My horizontal is important, but it's horizontal. My
(25:41):
vertical defines me. And so there's always going to be
a little bit attention in the beginning. But second and
third generations are more prone to assimilate and to fully
become an integrated part of the process because there's no
longer any primary safeguards keeping them.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Away, and that some of that may be the language barrier.
We offer translation and things like that, but the language
barrier may be part of the difficulty as well, because
it's not always as easy for the parents. You know,
they're not as sure of course.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
And and you know, the language is fear, interprenation. You
know you're gonna you're gonna question what they're hearing and
so forth. But that again, that'll go because supernaturally, all
three of us believe that the spirit of that, the
Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, can go in there
and change hearts and minds. So we it's there's a
supernatural element that we can deny. God will show up
and convict the parents and so forth. So yeah, the
(26:34):
fastest growing church in America right now is the Hispanic Church.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
I believe it. I believe it.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
And we've been We've been praying obviously for the family
that Bryce was fostering. Uh age boy, there's a there's
a whole family involved. There other families that we've been
involved with that we've prayed, and we have seen progress.
It's like we have to be patient. I guess it's
God's timing too. But sure we've seen progress bit by
(27:01):
bit where more and more and more of the family
have started to come around and want to get baptized.
One will start attending church, you know, and and I
can see over the course of a couple of years
the peace is moving around.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
But it's we get impatient.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
I feel wait upon the Lord of my friends.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yeah, that that is.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Tough, especially when you're when you get your heart involved.
We've we've got some families, obviously Bryce and his wife
more than me because they were fostering.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
That's a whole other level.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
But uh yeah, we have some families have gotten very
close to and it's it can be frustrating at times.
It can it can be a little difficult at times.
The culture I speak a little Spanish, but the culture
barrier is still a thing. I feel like it's the
especially in the first generation immigrants don't really understand. We
(27:52):
don't really understand each other as well. But but God
has work.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Just coming agree with and you've got for the best. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Amen, that's right. So let me ask you this. You've
written fourteen books, right, is that?
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Is that true?
Speaker 3 (28:10):
That's accurate? You know, so somewhere in the neighborhood I
lost count.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
It's a lot, it seems like a lot. So how
do you How do you keep it straight? How do
you all the things you're doing? Because you're doing a lot,
and I have trouble with keeping my mind on track
just to do a podcast for an hour? So how
do you? How do you keep everything organized? How do
you make these things happen? And how do how are
you so productive?
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (28:35):
I have some rub brikes that guide me. I have
some guardrails that guide me. So the guard it's identity, intimacy, integrity, influence,
and innovation. Know who you are, identity, who you are
in Christ, who Christ is in you, identity, who you are.
Then you have spiritual intimacy, my spiritual discipline of prayer
every day, getting into God's word, uh, just pursuing righteousness.
(28:56):
That spiritual intimacy is everything. And then you get into integrity.
When your integrity is greater than your influence, nothing can
stop you nothing. So you have to make sure integrity
is greater than influence. When you're driven by annointing rather
than ambition, nothing can stop you. And so integrity and
after integrity, you have this amazing thing called influence, but
(29:18):
only if that influence follows integrity. And that's how you
make sure that it's all honoring to God. It's not
self serving or narcissistic, but you manage it with humility.
Humility is the wine skin that manages the favor of God.
So your influence has to be used for the glory
of Christ first Corinthians ten thirty one and in the
name of Jesus Colosi in three seventeen. And then the
(29:39):
last thing is innovation. So if you're doing any eyes
is identity. It's identity you know and you know who
you are. You know, and it's intimacy, integrity, influence and
the last one is innovation. Innovation is creativity, new ideas.
I manage them because I have great people that help
me in all of my silos. I surround myself with
people that have more faith than I do. You are
(30:02):
who surround you. Always surround yourself with people that pray
more than you do, because it's they lift up your
game and you don't have to drag anyone across the line.
They push you to get to the line. So surround
yourself with the right people. That's just the secret of success.
According to scripture, surround yourself with the right people. And
so that's critical. And ken just keep on pursuing righteousness
(30:26):
and know who you are in Christ, the have a
holy heel of healthy, happy, humble, hungry, honoring life, and
live that life change the world around you.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah, I guess my problem with I've been working on
a book idea, trying to write a book, and the
problem is I'm trying to write like fifteen books because
every time I get one page written on this idea,
I have a new idea, and I have a hard
time not chasing new ideas and coming back to the
to work the one. So I think that having someone
(31:01):
almost like accountability not just help to help you, but
also keep you kind of on track. It accountable might
be a good a good point.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Indeed, you need to thround yourself with a team. We
can't do this by ourselves. From Adam and Eve to
Moses and Joshua, Joshua and Caleb, Eli Jah and Elisha,
Paul and silas I, Dreg Michigan and Bendigou you name it, right,
Nark and John, Peter and John and the Bible. Christ
(31:27):
commissioned the Apostles. What was that two by two? You
were not meant to do as by ourselves. Yeah, that's
we have to be surrounded by the right people. Imagine
if you have the right people in the right atmosphere
and the imagine if your heart, your head in your
hand are in perfect alignment, you can't be stopped. It's
you're you're un for because of Jesus operating in you.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
And I think it's so much a part of American
culture that we just we want to say we did
it on our own, or we want to we want
to be self sufficient, all these things. But I don't
think it's really healthy and it's not really biblical.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Well, it's not you are, who's around you? Indeed?
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, absolutely, so you're listed. Okay, this I found this
interesting as well. Obviously I googled you and h and
trying to learn everything.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Yeah, well, you.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Know, I tried to learn everything we could about you.
I'm sure we're missing a few things. But but uh,
the list of I think it was Newsmax or somebody,
I don't know who it was. Now it's some kind
of news magazine, uh news Week.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Anyway, one of.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Those did a list of top megachurches and they listed
yours as not number thirteen. Now I don't know how
they define megachurch. I don't know. I know there are
depending on who you are and where you are and
what church you attend, you probably have different ideas of
what that means. But I've heard a lot of positive
(32:54):
and negative talk about what is considered megachurch culture and
how you know, large churches are affecting Christianity in America,
either positively or negatively depending on how you talk to
How how is your church at I don't even know
what your what your attendants attendance is, what your membership is,
(33:15):
But like in your mind, what is good about your
church culture?
Speaker 1 (33:23):
In your local assembly.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Yeah, we don't. I think the technical application by studies
and surveys and defined years ago megachurch has to be
I think it's two thousand or more in attendance and
that sort of thing. So our church is a multi
it's a Christ centered, Bible based, spirit empowered, multi ethnic,
(33:48):
kingdom culture, multi generational church. And we look like Kevin
as I referenced before, we're multi generational. We don't quench
your spirit. We're not weird, but we're wired. We're wired.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
We're wired, wired explained, That's how I explained. I should
have explained that to you years ago. He Brice was
a Baptist when he came to the Pentegostal church. Look
at that, so that would have been a perfect way
to describe it.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Yeah, yeah, we're not weird, we're wired. So it it's
it defines us. So it's you know, it's a beautiful church.
God's growing it. And however other people describe as that's
up to them. We don't. We don't do self you know,
flattery descriptors. It's we're we're focusing on one thing, filling
Europe with the glory of Jesus. We want to see
people save delivered and healed and filled the Holy Spirit
(34:37):
every single Sunday. That's at objective. So when when we
measure things, when when I'm traveling and I send a
message to my team, I will ask him, you know
the three a's, and it begins with this anointing question mark,
how is the anointing today? Second question is alters question mark?
And then the third question is attendance and it's number three.
(35:01):
So it's first as anointing, second is alters, and third
is in And so that should be like the lay
out the priorities, right.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Yeah, that makes sense. I love it.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
I think that's I think a lot of times the
assumption is made by people in smaller churches or pastors
of smaller churches that if you're in a large church
that maybe all you care about is numbers or all
you care about it. Yeah, but that's not I don't
think that's the case at all.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
In some cases.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Maybe, but after I preach, I run out and greet
people and I try to agree as many people as possible,
and because you know, it's it's relational. Yet you could
have community in a large church. It has to be intentional,
you have to build it. But small groups are critical
for a church. First, for a large church to thrive,
because you want to have that element of community, a
(35:48):
face to face, and so it's doable. I really don't
buy into the whole megachurch versus non megachurchy. I don't.
That's not my worldview. I don't think about it. I
don't pray about it. I don't template it. I don't.
It's not part of my DNA. I just we just
do church and uh, you know, and God shows up
and people show up, and when God and people show up,
(36:09):
the world changes.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Absolutely love it.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
So that's so basically you're saying, it's just the differences
are administrative.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
It's just the church itself. It's not it's not different.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
No, no, it's not different. Yeah, it's church's church and
and he and I, you know, there's and we should
be you know, looking around the diversity. Not every church
should be or could be a Megican church. There are
people that thrive in small churches. There are people that
will never ever feel comfortable or be discipled in a
large church. Hence God created small churches. God created medium
(36:43):
sized churches. And then there are people that, for whatever reason,
they see a mega church and that's that's their element. Amen,
it's diversity. It's almost it's all about Jesus. I'm good
with it. The moment it stops being about Jesus, I'm
not good with it.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
That's right. I love it.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
That's Christ has to be the center, right, otherwise it's
not everything.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
That's the apostle. Paul's writing, Christ is my everything. He said, Amen,
I love it.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
So I think that we've we've kind of struggled as
we've grown to do what you What you said is
I have community, have discipleship. Small groups are important, but
trying to figure out like how that's the challenge. I
think when you move from small to not as small
to however you define that, and then larger, it's it's
(37:32):
figuring out how to make that community work on a
bigger scale, because it is the more the more people
you have, the less close each of them. Yes, So
in your case, you fixed that with that problem with
small groups, right, Yep.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
We have small groups, and these small groups provide a
community infrastructure that enables us to have the gatherings that
we do on Sundays and so forth. But we're undergirded
by small groups. It's our foundation indeed.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Okay, so when you say that this is big, you're
making me think you you're making the wheels turn because
when I think of small groups, like, I'm very familiar
with the concept, and we've had them and and in
some capacity we have them. But it was kind of
a not it was definitely not the foundation. Of course,
our church is seventy years old. Yeah, so it's it's
(38:23):
a very very much wasn't really a concept when our
church was founded. So but as the foundation, small groups
work a lot differently than as a Bolton fix after
the fact, for sure.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
That's correct. So you know, post Pentecost it was small groups.
Small groups gathered home gatherings a Book of Acts, remember,
and they shared their stuff and supplies and so forth.
These small groups inevitably provided the churches, especially after Constantine,
and they took over the Roman temples and converted temples
into buildings, buildings into sanctuaries and cathedrals. I see evolution
(38:59):
of it. Four churches weren't homes, and homes to church
was illegal prior to Constantine. So then it was post
fact though that things change. So small groups have been
from the Book of Acts down the foundational framework for
the church. So I argue that you need to have
(39:19):
home If families are not meeting, if we don't have
household ministries, if church is not meeting in home and
in the church, then we're going to have some issues
down the road. Churches that thrived during COVID were churches
that had the home element, the small group element well structured.
Because if all you were accustomed to was coming to
church on Sunday without any small group community, then COVID
(39:42):
came along. In certain states you were restricted from going
to church. Then you went alllined and you became an
allline parishioner and all that and all of that was
mitigated if you had small groups.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Absolutely, yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah, I think it's definitely an important factor, and it's probably
a key and it's probably something that we need to
incorporate at a deeper level. I know, life groups have
been very popular concept with a lot of churches, you know,
the idea of doing life together and you know, interest
based groups, and that's something that we have a little
(40:17):
bit of going on. I'm sure kind of just naturally,
you know, we're not necessarily promoting it, but it just
happens and I think that's also helpful because every time
the people of the church are together, that the churches together,
even if it isn't a small group, or it's it
is playing golf or whatever they're doing fellowship, it's still
(40:39):
an important and beautiful thing.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Indeed, indeed, so I would encourage everyone to seek building
community outside the confines of the Sunday service. You want
to reinforce, get into God's word, do life together, pray together,
fast together, do devotionals together, and do it in community
that will enable you to come on Sunday, receive a pression,
knowing a pression, partition, and to change the world around
you Monday New Saturday.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
That's absolutely appreciate it. Well, we greatly appreciate you coming
on to two minute costles and a microphone and talking
to us. Tell us where we can connect with you
if you have questions.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Or sure a pastor Sam dot com. You want to
get the book, you go to Amazon and you get
the book Fresh Oil, Holy Fire, New Wine. You can
watch this on television, different television, TBN, Day Star, Roku,
Fox News, Uh, you name it the Victory Channel. So
absolutely follow us, watch our movies. Give God all the glory,
(41:38):
Lift up the name of Jesus, and let's do one
thing together. Let's go change the world.
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