March 7, 2024 • 63 mins
In this incredible conversation with Rev. Brian Kinsey, we cover a variety of topics but focus on evangelism and discipleship. If you've never heard Bro. Kinsey speak or read any of his books, you don't know what you are missing. We are grateful to him for sharing his wisdom and time with us.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:09):
Well, thank you, brother Kinseyfor going on to two pentegostles and a
microphone podcast. We're honored to haveyou on. I know I have where
you preach several times over the yearsand read a couple of books, and
we've been blessed by your ministry.Sword great to be on. Appreciate you
(00:31):
inviting me to be a part ofthis because this is the way I can
impart to others what the Lord hasput in my heart, and that way
it's a beautiful opportunity for me tobe able to create that spiritual impartation that
I think is so vital in thisgeneration. Amen. Awesome, Yeah,
(00:51):
we are so glad, uh,so glad that you're here. And we
just love having people on who whoare creative people, writer, you know,
preacher, writer. I don't knowwhat you label yourself, but a
lot of different things, I guess, pastor. But I just love having
people on that can give us,give us insight from from all their experience
(01:15):
and and what God has given him. So so welcome, and I know
brother Bryce was able to uh whenyou were at the Indiana District conference just
recently. I wasn't able to bethere for the morning session but brother Bryce
was able to join for that excellent. We had a wonderful time. It
(01:38):
was just phenomenal. Yeah, itwas great, and I appreciate all the
resources that you provided, and andI'm almost finished with the Dancing Bother.
I started it last week and gettingthrough it. So thank you for the
book and welcome resources. I enjoyedthat sermon, uh to uh. I
(02:04):
didn't get to go to that thatsession, like I said, but really
enjoyed the sermon that I was ableto hear. I think it was was
it Saturday, I believe the Saturdaythat one I was able to be at.
So so we have used one ofyour books, Made for More,
I believe is the one that weuse for a men's Bible study. So
(02:24):
we familiar familiar with your with yourwork. Bryce. You want to kind
of lead off on that and maybewe can start there and h and kind
of circle around to our theme whichis which has been for a while now,
discipleship and evangelism. So I thinkwe'll actually get to that. Yeah.
(02:49):
So I've been leading a a men'sBible study group with our church and
I felt like God impressed on myheart maybe a few years ago that there
were some Uh, they weren't necessarilynew converts. They've they've been a part
(03:12):
of our church for a while.But I can see that we've kind of
I'm trying to be delicate here,but uh, kind of ignored, ignored
this group of guys for a littlebit. And I just felt like,
God tell me that, you know, you need to just invite them in
and we could study God's word andah and just kind of develop each other
(03:36):
and go through some you know,personal growth and uh. We we started
off with a few different Bible studiesand we got into a few books,
but the last book we did readwas Made for More and yeah, it
was a it was a great,great resource and definitely uh and it's something
(04:00):
you touched on in that morning sessionwith the Indiana District Conference. But that
rule of five. And I've justbeen trying to apply that in my own
life and finding out what my ruleof five is and and it's it's been
it's been great. It's it's beenrevolutionary really in my personal walk with God
(04:25):
and my evangelism and disciples dip ofothers. So for me, I struggle
a little bit with focus just narrowingit down to the important things. So
the concepts like that that I canapply in a practical way to help me
maintain focus, that that really helpsme because if I don't have a plan,
(04:46):
you know, let's see a squirreland I'm gone. Well, there
are a lot of distractions in ourworld today that keeps people from focusing on
what they need to They don't understandwhat are the most vital, important things
that they need to do every day. And of course, connecting to Jesus
and connecting to God, making surethat connection does not get interrupted by anything
(05:13):
in their path. That is vitalfor today's world. We need to stay
connected to the Lord Jesus Christ.That's where our strength comes from to overcome
everything. Right, got it?So what are you? What are your
five Obviously that's the number one.So for you personally, what are your
(05:36):
what are your five things? Well? The five things that I do personally,
Number one is I read pray theWord every day. Every day I've
got an input of the Word.It's not how much word or how much
prayer you do necessarily lest God callsyou to a lot of prayer. Is
(05:57):
praying that word seeking God, learnwhat that Bible says about you, not
about somebody else, not about aprophetic word for the church, which that
will come at times. But mostlyI'm interested in is what does God have
to say to me? That's whatI want to hear in that rule of
(06:17):
five. What is God telling methat I need to do? And then
the second thing is is I writeor I journal what I have prayed and
read, because that's the second lawof learning is not just reading, but
you got to write it. Andthen the third thing that I do is
I speak the word to someone,a word of encouragement, to a leader
(06:41):
that is ahead of me, alongsideme, or that is following me.
I speak that word to a leader. And then the fourth thing I do
is speak the word to our hurtingsoul, saint or sinner, and most
of the time it's both. Andthen on the fifth thing is is to
reflect back whether or not I accomplishedand who did I minister to? Who
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did I speak into their life?What did I accomplish? Do I need
to follow up? And then setthe next day up? Wow? And
those are non negotiable, every singleday, every day. Got to do
it. It is that is sopowerful, especially you said speaking a word
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of encouragement and I think a lotof times it's easy when you're in ministry
of some sort to get caught upin the day to day, you know,
get in the weeds and you forget. Maybe you're evolved in with those
hurting people or whatever, maybe you'rereally busy with them, but you might
forget to take the time to encourageyour pastor or like you said, someone
(07:48):
working aroundside you. And we allneed that from time to time. I'm
sure I can't imagine. I've alwayssaid, if God calls me to be
a pastor, I'll be a pastor. But I really kind of hope he
doesn't because of all of the pressure. I would much rather be the second
man, or the third or fourth. But that is a lot of a
(08:11):
lot of weight on someone's shoulders.Well, a lot of times, as
pastors, you're going to get blamedfor things that are really not your fault,
but because of people's emotions and they'reupset and they feel like you should
have been able to do something aboutit, and if you would have preached
better, if you would have donethis better, they wouldn't have the misery
(08:33):
they have in their life. Whenthe truth of the matter is most of
the misery. We cause probably ninetyfive to ninety eight percent of all the
misery we have. We created itourselves by wrong choices, and we want
somebody to wave a magic wand andpray over us and fix everything. And
when it doesn't happen, we getupset about it. And so we've got
(08:54):
to realize that we've got to grow. Growth is recognizing my responsibility to take
command and charge of my chaos.You're not the reason for my chaos.
I'm the reason, or life isthe reason, and I need to accept
responsibility. Whether I caused it ornot doesn't matter. I have to deal
(09:18):
with it nevertheless, and it's myresponsibility to deal with my chaos. Wow.
Good, Absolutely, I was.I remember for years volunteering at the
juvenile detention center, and that wassomething that we preached a lot, was
you may not be the cause ofa lot of your problems, because these
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kids are you know, obviously they'remaking choices, but those choices are so
heavily influenced by dysfunctional families and allthese other things that they feel like they
are victims, and in a lotof you know, to a great degree,
they are. But our message manytimes was was no matter who was
responsible or no matter who caused yourproblems. You have to take responsibility or
(10:01):
nothing will ever change. You can'tjust keep it absolutely. Yeah, Well,
what happens a lot of times isthe victim mentality begins to seemen in
their thinking. Then they're always playingthe victim card because they found that they
can manipulate people to do what theywant them to do by playing the victim
(10:24):
card. So they in their mindslife becomes easier, but they don't realize
that there's a price to pay forthat, and they actually become trapped in
a relationship to where they're dependent oneverybody. They become dependent. And when
you become dependent, then you reallyare a victim. And that's the product
(10:46):
of being a victim. And sowe got to deliver people from the victim
mentality by giving them purpose and asense of ownership of their purpose and their
destiny. They can change anything.They may not be able to change the
past, but they can change theirfuture, right right, that's awesome.
(11:09):
Yeah, So it's not just thatyou were victimized. It becomes your identity
at that point, and you area victim and then and then there's no
if you don't get out of thatmindset. There's no escaping your your situation,
no escaping, and you become dependentand then your slave to whoever you're
dependent on. And so it's justa cycle of slavery, right, And
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that's why God when he got Israelout of Egypt, he never got Egypt
out of them until he brought himin the wilderness. And the whole generation
had to die before they killed Egyptin Israel to bring him into the Promised
Lands so that they would have thenew identity of who God wanted them to
be walking in their promise, theirdestiny, their authority. Wow. Yeah,
(12:00):
So Bryce, you can speak tothis, but I know and you
might you might have some personal insights. But we we deal with a lot
of families, a lot of kids, especially in our ministries that we are
involved in, who just have somesevere generational problems, just massive generational curses.
(12:26):
So uh, and Bryce, youknow you have personal, very very
personal stories along those lines. Bryce, you want to take a second and
maybe just kind of go down thatpath, like with with some of your
experiences, I know, with youwith the refuge, with being a foster
parent and those those kind of theweight of that family curse. Absolutely.
(12:54):
Honestly, we're still in the middleof it, and I think my wife
and I are are struggling a littlebit on how to how to get her,
get this family that we're a partof, out of this generational curse
(13:15):
that they have mom. So,yeah, we became foster parents this past
year. We had a a youngthirteen year old boy for almost a year,
so he was in the foster systemfor a long time, and we've
made a connection with mom and we'vesort of maintained that connection since he's actually
(13:41):
gone back home. But it's stilla terrible situation and we're basically taken in
day by day. But Mom isGuatemalan and so there's this huge language barrier,
(14:01):
and there's all these cultural differences andand how how how she handles how
she is as a parent, Andit's not necessarily a good thing, but
yeah, we're probably probably her expectationsjust from observation, like even her expectations
of like normal relationships, right,Yeah, Yeah, it's it's honestly,
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it's been a really big struggle andwe've we've had her at church a few
times and just trying to minister toher the best that we can and helping
her. DCS is actually want theywant us to like hold back on how
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much help we're giving her because becausewe're we're almost enabling her problems and and
so we're we're on we're conflicted becauseuh, at church, this past year
we started a new program. Wecall it the Allied Program where we we're
there are members in the church thatare adopting families and that's good, it's
(15:20):
a great program. Yeah, andwe're just being being a resource for for
families in our community that desperately needit, being a physical resource as well
as a spiritual resource. And yeah, so this family is our Allied family
and we want to help them somuch, but it's at the same time,
(15:43):
it's she's got stuff she has tomeet based based off our government and
what they what they expect, andso it has been it has been a
real struggle and trying to balance thatand how do we move forward. And
(16:03):
it's definitely that generational curse that's onthis family is is strong and all all
that my wife and I know todo is pray and just seek God and
try to hopefully the Holy Ghost willlead us to a path. But and
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how I mean you don't thinking froma practical standpoint, you know the five
those five things that you do personally, that's very very practical and easy to
apply. But when you're trying tohelp come alongside and help a family in
a situation like that or is itis there some kind of framework or something
that you use to kind of helpthink through how do I help this family
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and not not just enable them.You know, we want to be a
help that you know with physical needsand all those things, but how do
we help them out of that situation? First of all, somehow you've got
to be able to help the youngman change his thinking where they begin to
think differently than they have thought before, where we don't have to live like
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this because they've seemed absolutely no wayout of this circumstance where they have any
possibility or hope of going beyond thispoint and living any other way than what
they're living right now, and wehave to give them the hope. That's
where I really focus in Made forMore book learning how to speak hope and
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to people that are hopeless where they'vegot the hope that if I can show
you the path of how you canchange your circumstance for the future what's happened
before. We can't do anything aboutthe dysfunction you're being raised in. You
can't do anything about that. Butthere's going to come in time when you're
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going to have choices to make,and I want to show you the path,
and I want to show you howto accomplish what I know God wants
to do in your life. Andof course you know as well as I
do. If they don't turn theirheart over to God, they don't start
coming to church and worshiping and praisingthe Lord, really seeking after God,
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it's going to be very difficult tochange your thinking because the number one,
it's like the scripture only one timein the New Testament talks about the renewing
of our spirit, and that's inTitus three five, But there are three
times it talks about the renewing ofour mind and even talks about the renewing
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of the spirit of our minds.So it's three times more important for your
thinking to get straight than for yourspirit to get straight, because most of
the time, if the enemy's goingto defeat your spirit and mess your spirit
up, he's got to go throughthe mind first, and so he messages
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your thinking enough to get you toyour spirit. That's why you got to
constantly purge that thinking. And theonly way to do that is to get
him around some positive influences that arespeaking this continually. You can do this,
you can overcome giving him hope,but by the same token, modeling
the path for him right in frontof his eyes and getting him to church
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is going to be very key.And being in God's presence and around God's
people that love him and love theKingdom and love to see this transformation take
place in his life. That's goingto be that's going to be volumes of
good that will come out of it. And I just I'm just going to
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claim in Jesus' name with you inagreement, and God's going to let you
be the voice and show him thatmodel and lead him out of this mess
because he obviously has been exposed tosome good things and now it's got to
take root and produce the fruit thatwe know he can. But he's just
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got to have some positive influences givehim hope that he can do this,
and then I wouldn't focus on fivethings for him. I would focus on
doing one thing every day. Youknow what helps you to grow, to
expand your mind, your thinking,and I get him on the one thing.
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You don't have to do it awhole. It's not how long he
does it during the day, it'swhether or not we can get him to
do it every day. It's theeveryday nest that changes you. Right.
Wow, Yeah, I love that. It's that positive influence you're talking about.
You know, I'm thinking of afamily that is really the adoptive family
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of brother Aaron Herewood and his wife, and they have over the core.
So now it's been several years now, two girls that are about their daughter's
age have become a part of thechurch. And then their parents or their
mom for sure is a member ofour Spanish congregation and and their more and
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more of their family are getting connected. But it was a matter of time
and and that positive influence being atchurch, being around people, seeing that,
and then also I think a bigshift for them came when they when
they came to the Christian School becausethen it was truly every day, every
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day, all day during the schoolyear. And uh, it really I
think made a huge difference. So, you know, and of course that's
not always possible, but that dailyinfluence you're right, it's I don't think
you can. You can over sellthat, No, you can't. And
you've got to have somebody in proximityto them that can expect them to what
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we know they need to be doingevery day. The more we can input
and do it in a positive lfe, not like in a condemning like you're
not doing it, I am soI'm better than you are type concept,
that doesn't help anybody. That's justbecomes the selfishness of self righteousness, and
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that doesn't help anyone. We haveto lead people because we would all be
in the same condition if it hadn'tbeen for the Lord who rescued us,
and God rescued us made us grace. Trying to draw them, not trying
to not shoving them along the way. But that's not pushing them yet.
They may need that little nudge everyonce in a while, but that's when
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wisdom. That's why I have topray every day is because I don't have
the wisdom for all of this stuff. I don't have the wisdom to help
everybody I meet. I need Jesusto do that. I need him to
show up in honor of the wordsthat we speak into people's lives, whether
they're prophetically or whether they're instructive,corrective, whatever, You've got to have
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God on your side to do that. Absolutely, absolutely, So Bryce and
I have been We've we've done severalinterviews. Let's see how many episodes have
we done now on this kind ofarc of discipleship and evangelism. It's been
maybe seven or eight, I don'tknow, it's been probably several several.
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I think it's it's been on myheart a lot for the last couple of
years, and we've started to seesome some things in Seymour. I think
that of maybe somewhat a result ofthat burden I think God has put on
some people in our church. Andthen also it's it's kind of fueling it,
and it's it's kind of getting gainingmomentum. But so I've been wanting
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to get other people's perspectives and oneof the things we were thinking was a
law. You talk a lot aboutleadership and self development, right, developing
yourself, growing personal growth, lead, growing leaders, training leaders, preparing
people. How does a leader createan environment? A pastor, whether it's
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a pastor or a lay leader orwhatever, how do they contribute to an
environment that that is evangelism and discipleshipdriven and that will result in a growing
church. I know your church inPensacola is a growing church and they're exploding,
and I'm very thankful also, I'mvery thankful for that. Okay,
(24:37):
there are several things that have tohappen for us to be able to create
that kind of environment that you're talkingabout. So let me just share with
you some of the things that I'vewitnessed in my local church and what had
to change. And every church isgoing to be just a little bit different,
but most churches will find themselves somewherealong this path. They will resemble
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some of the remarks that I make, and they have to learn how to
apply that to themselves and then goto work on being proactive change it.
Here's the number one killer of allrevival and evangelism and discipleship. The number
one killer is toxic Pentecostal culture.Our culture, not our faith, not
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our holiness, not our worship,not our praise, not our Bible studies.
It's culture and a culture that iscentered around the American idol concept,
where in order for me to receivesomething from God, somebody's got to perform
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for me. I need a pulpiteerwho has the eloquence to speech me out
of my bad mood and get meback into a good mood and feeling good
about myself. Or I need agood songster. I need a wonderful singing
group to come along and sing meinto a new realm. Well, the
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only place in the Bible where thatscenario is seen and mirrored is in the
life of Saul when he needed aDavid to get the evil spirit off up
off his life. And as longas that exists in our churches, you're
going to have a hard time sellingpeople on evangelism and discipleship because they're relaxed.
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They're there to receive, perform forme, and then if I clap,
I'll let you know whether or notI think it was a good performance.
Most people respond at the end ofthe message if they're going to give
you any kind of compliment. They'renot going to come up and say,
oh, that just changed my life. You gave me three things I need
to start working on tomorrow. Inever hear that. Always here, I
(27:00):
enjoyed that. I really enjoy yourpreaching. And so when I've taught our
church, I said, don't comeup here and tell me you enjoyed it,
because that's just a performance and you'rejust being entertained. You need to
come up here and say I agreewith that, and I'm going to work
on every point you mentioned and I'mgoing to include that in my life.
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So I've taught our church don't waittill you get to church to bring your
passion. Go into your closet ofprayer and do your rule of five and
develop your passion in relationship to JesusChrist that when you walk through the door,
you are passionate about worshiping Jesus fromthe first song. You don't need
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anybody to get you in a goodmood. You come to church in a
good mood, or you recognize ifyou're in a bad mood, you're not
going to hold anybody responsible around youfor that. You're going to know that
God has sent you here. Thereare three essential things that I teach our
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church all the time in some formor another that develops discipleship and develops this
passion that I want them to bringwith them to church, and that produces
what I call a healthy culture thatis conducive for growth. And that's the
ability to let people know I'm gladyou're here, even though I don't like
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where they're at right now. Idon't like what they're doing as far as
their life style is concerned. ButI'm glad they're here, and we welcome
them and love on them, eventhough they haven't made one move towards jesus
Hip. We don't have to sitback and look at them like there's some
kind of dog that just got druginto the church. Because they've lived in
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sin. Their life's a mess,they're miserable. They need Jesus and they
need somebody to welcome them and puttheir arms around them. So I'm changing
the culture to a welcoming, lovinggathering spirit. You're welcome in our church.
Our church is open for business.I don't care who they are.
I don't care if they're tall they'reshort, whether they're big or small,
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whether they're black or white. Racedoesn't matter, Social economic, uh situation
in strata in society doesn't matter.What matters is that they're there. That's
what matters. Say, Well,what if they're there for the wrong reason,
Well, we don't know that.You can't judge that. That's not
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our it's not my you know that'sabove my pay grade. I'm there to
accept them right where they're at now. I don't want to leave them that
way. I want Jesus to changethem, but we got to. We
got to give Jesus a chance.I don't want to mess Jesus up by
being on Jesus do them. Sothe first thing is I want them to
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know their mission. You cannot accomplishwhat God wants you to do if you
don't know why you're there. Whyare you here. I'm not here to
receive. I'm here to minister.I'm not here to get something from this
service. I'm here to give somethingto this service, to add value.
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I'll receive more by giving than Iwould ever by plopping myself down on the
pew and saying perform from me,because I'm too tired to add value.
And that's just not I mean,you go to work tired and you still
give it your all because you're gettinga paycheck at the end of the week.
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So you same at church. Imay not get a paycheck, but
I'm gonna walk in and I'm goingto add value to it. Right,
Believe I remember, absolutely, Iremember a perfect example. I think of
that when I was I was ateenager, and there was a boy,
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probably a little younger than me,he's probably twelve at the time, have
been seeking the Holy Ghost for probablymonths at that point and just could not
for whatever reason, couldn't break through. And one one service, there were
people gathered around the altar and therewas someone else seeking the Holy Ghost,
and he went up and prayed forthem to receive the Holy Ghost. And
that's the night that he got it. So he'd taken the focus off of
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himself. Yeah, and he's he'sin a giving mode and not up in
his head about I need to speakin tongues. He's just he's just there
to give and to pray with someoneelse. And and that's when it happened.
Well, if the Bible is true, and I believe it is,
that if you give, it shallbe given unto you, pressed down,
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shaking together and running over. Soif you want a must duplication of what
you've given to where you go homewith more than what you started with,
even though you gave it all inthe service, you apply the principle of
giving, and God sees to itthat it's returned back to you. I
don't believe in burnout in the church. I believe if we burn out,
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we're not walking with Jesus every day. If we burnout, then we're not
walking with Jesus. Now, Iunderstand getting discouraged. I understand needing input
in order to be able to strengthenour walk with God. But you never
come across God's altar with a desireto receive. You come to give because
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we want the fire to fall ofthe pulpit. We want follow the pew,
But the Bible designed the fire tofollow the altar. And if you're
not on that altar, there's onlyone sacrifice since Jesus died of the Cross
that God will accept, and thatis for me to present my body a
living sacrifice. He will not acceptany other sacrifice. I can't substitute anything
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for that. I have to geton that altar, and I have to
give myself to Jesus. But hepromised that if I did, he would
press down, shaken together, andrun over the blessing in my life.
So they need to know the mission, and then they need to know the
message. If you don't know whatyou're talking about, and you don't know
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what you're trying to get, peopleto do, or to see or to
accomplish. Then you don't have anypassion because you don't know your message.
I've heard Pentecostals who have been inchurch all of their life says, I
don't know what to say. Whatyou've been in church all your ever loved
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life and you don't know what tosay. Well say Jesus loves you.
You can do that, Jesus wept. Use the shortest verse in the Bible
and memorize it. It's two words. He cries over you because he loves
you. Just say that. That'llchange people's lives right there, because nobody's
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cried over them in a long time. They've been angry, they've spit on
them, they've you know, condescendinglytalk to them, talk down to them.
And now Jesus wants me to acceptmy mission and develop my message in
the reason of the hope that lieswithin me. Is my message. Jesus
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is my message. I'm gonna sayJared, listen, jaredith, I love
you. Jesus loves you. We'regonna pray for you. I don't have
the answer. I don't know everything, but I know Jesus has got the
answer. That's my message, Jesusis the answer. It's just that simple.
They don't have to go complicated oneverybody. And the know the algebraic
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formula for determining what the numbers ofthe Old Testament refer to, how to
work out all of that dumerology anddifferent types and shadows, and that's all
interesting stuff to preach and study itnot against that, but that's not our
message. Our messages Jesus, Jesusstayed, Jesus heals speak that. Keep
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it simple, like you said,keep it simple. Absolutely. I work
in marketing, and you know,I have a small marketing business here and
we do. We deal with thatall the time. Most most small businesses
don't know what their message is.They might know what they do, but
they might do several things through thecourse of a day, or they might
offer several services. But they gotto narrow down their message because if you
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tell somebody all of it at once, you haven't told them anything. So
you have to have to narrow downand make the point, make the point.
And every Pentecostal church which creates aculture and an atmosphere of making the
point the message simple, powerful,life changing message of the Gospel of Jesus
(36:17):
Christ being able to live that witha smile, with joy, not with
they need to do something for me, not you need to give me something
for this. I'm talking about ajoy, a love for the truth,
love for these people because Jesus lovedhim enough to die for them before he
(36:39):
ever knew or before they were everburned into this world. Jesus knew them,
of course prophetically and through his omniscience, he knew them, but he
died for them before they were everborn. That's my message. Jesus died
on the cross for your sins.Again, He'll fill you with the all
(37:00):
egost. He loves you. Man. What a message, What a Jesus,
What a savior? So you gotto know the mission. Why you
got to know your message. Yougot to know the master. If you
don't know the one that you're talkingabout, you're just talking about a subject.
(37:21):
Jesus is not a subject. He'smy savior. He's not an idea.
He's a person, and he's notjust any person. He's the person
of the Godhead and it all dwellsin him bodily. So we're talking about
God Almighty here. We're not talkingabout the second person in the Godhead.
(37:43):
We're not talking about God the Son. We're talking about the God manifests in
the flesh, and that is somethingworth knowing, connecting to learning walking with
him. That's where our annoying comesfrom. Our annoying doesn't come from our
(38:05):
skills set or our talents. Itcomes from knowing the Master. If you
walk with him, my my mind, passion will develop in your spirit and
you'll be able to change that youngman's life with the passion that you have
for Jesus. Know it. Youcan't help him, but Jesus can.
(38:27):
You may not be able to makethe difference and give him all the answers
to what will break him out ofthis victim mentality, but Jesus can,
and not only can he do it, he will do it because he told
the leoper he said, if thouwilt, that can make me clean,
and Jesus said, okay, Iwill. It's the same thing. In
(38:49):
every church service, we got peopleexcited. I got people praying all over
Pensacola for sick people, in themall, in walmartferent places they might go
where they would meet some hurting soul. You don't need to rev up,
You don't need to call the church. I mean you can, but you
don't have to pray form yourself rightthen, somebody say you need to put
(39:13):
my baby on the prayer list,or my husband or my wife. Don't
wait, don't wait for a listof a hundred different names. Nobody knows
anything. Pray right then, withauthority in Jesus name. You are the
messenger of grace that God has savedand chosen for this generation to be a
(39:36):
bearer of the voice of one cryingin the wilderness saying, prepare you the
way of the Lord, make hispath straight. And God's going to do
that. He will honor his wordfor speaking it into people's lives with love.
He will honor that word. Wow. And yeah, that's just to
(40:00):
confirm something in my spirit too.I felt a few years ago God clearly
spoke to me and really convicted me. Where our church used to be at
a campus downtown, and right acrossthe street was this just run down apartment
(40:23):
complex, and I mean just poverty, and there was kids just running in
and out and all just all kindsof people, desperate people. And but
we would right across the street isthis vibrant, uh you know, church
(40:45):
and we have these amazing services,these blowout services where God God did some
incredible things in our lives. Andas soon as church is over, we
walk out and we would you know, we'd see that apartment complex, but
that we went and think twice itwould just be you know, going to
the restaurant or going back home andgoing back back to our normal lives.
(41:08):
I suppose. And I felt Godreally convict me and he basically accused me
of spiritual hoarding, just keeping itall for myself. And that's a good
way of saying it. Yeah,and I made it a point in my
(41:30):
life that I'm no longer going todo that. Yeah, it's wonderful what
God did for me in that service, but it is I have to give.
I have to give it back.And Amen, try to reach as
many people as I can with thatmessage. Well, let me just give
(41:50):
you a little scenario here of sinceI've been listening to your voice and kind
of picking up them some things thatyou're saying, to give you an idea
of what kind of culture the churchneeds to develop in order to be an
evangelistic, discipling powerhouse that God hasintended us to be. Bryce made a
(42:12):
statement earlier in our broadcast our podcasthere tonight, that he had saw a
need, and then he stopped andsaid, I need to be careful here,
because he didn't want to be criticalthat a need that was being presented
to him in the spirit, thechurch wasn't meeting that need at that particular
(42:34):
time, and so God put iton his heart to develop ministry that would
meet that need that he saw.And here's toxic Pentecostal culture. They see
a need, they get mad,They go to the preacher. Why aren't
(42:57):
you doing something about this? Godis saying, no, you don't need
to get mad at the preacher.You need to find out I am mad.
I the Lord am angry with youbecause I showed you the need and
you didn't do anything about it.That's not the preacher's job to meet every
(43:17):
need that's in that church. Thesaints have to be empowered to do the
work of the ministry. One mancan't do it all, and so that
is critical to developing culture that supportsevangelism and discipleship. Without that component,
(43:43):
that's just one aspect, that's justone way of thinking and looking at it
that removes toxicity. Because anytime yougot blame and accusation in your voice.
It's toxic. Not one time.I don't care if you're right. I
don't care if you've got evidence.I don't care what you've got that's toxic.
(44:05):
The only voice that is not toxicis Lord. You have shown me
this need. What do you wantme to do about it? If Isaiah
before Isaiah chapter six, he wasblaming Israel, he was blasting their hides.
He was blowing them up with nuclearbombs. You reprobates. God's gonna
(44:29):
cut you off forever. You're notworth the time of day and own and
own. He went until he sawthe Lord high and lifted up, and
then he said, Lord, heream I send me. That's the difference
between the toxicity of negative, judgmentalprophecy that did not have Messianic hope and
(44:53):
purpose. It doesn't mean they weren'tsinners. And he wasn't right about everything
he said. It's in the Bible. He was right about everything he said.
But when he saw vision of God, God said, okay, now
I'm the one supposed to do somethingabout this. And so he developed the
Revelation of Messiah, and he developedpreaching that would give us Messianic cope,
(45:20):
and the desert's gonna blossom as arose, and God's gonna destroy and defeat
the dragon, and the grass isgonna grow right where his belly is.
Grass is gonna grow because you know, if there's a dragon in the place,
there's not gonna be any grass growinganywhere. He'll burn it up.
But God said, his fire can'ttouch this growth. He's creating a growth
(45:42):
atmosphere in the face of hostility.Don't tell me it can't happen. And
that came out of a brother thatwas purely toxic in his prophecies until he
saw God and then the Lord said. Then he said to the Lord,
send me in. That was whatPrice was saying, God, send me
right me. You showed this tome. Now it's my responsibility to do
(46:07):
something. Now, of course,with your pastor's permission proof I understand all
the protocols in place, but it'syour responsibility to do what God showed you.
That's when the culture is changing.That's when you'll start dumbling and tripling
and multiplying the number of disciples inthe church. That's leadership right there.
(46:29):
Leadership is not holding a position ora title. Leadership is recognizing a need,
forming a team and going after itand taking care of that. That's
leadership. Wow. Yeah, AndI envisioned. And I know I get
impatient, and I'm sure we alldo at some points. But I see
(46:51):
more and more people in the churchstarting to pick up on this, like
they get the vision and they startto get involved, and they start to
see what God is doing, andthey decide to be a part of it,
not just you know, sitting thereand watching it. So I know
that if there's consistency among among theleadership and then among those in the congregation
(47:15):
that are that are a part ofit, then eventually it has to spread
further and further throughout the congregation.If it's got to, it becomes a
contagion. I mean, we wehad COVID nineteen. Why does COVID have
to be the only contagion. Whycan't passion? Why can't discipleship? Why
(47:36):
can't I? Lord here, amI saying me, not, Jared?
If you get up off your benchand you do something, Bryce, why
aren't you doing something about this?No, God's telling me, why don't
I do something about it? Right? And as that spreads throughout a congregation,
(47:57):
then it just multiplies. It multiplies, mucktiplies, because everybody gets a
vision, everybody sees a need.That's what ministry is. It's just seeing
the need meeting it that there's nothingmore to it than that. Absolutely.
But toxicity, toxic culture is whenyou're always wanting somebody else to do it.
Here's the need. I'm complaining,I'm driping. Now, pastor,
(48:21):
you do something about it. You'vepastored, you do something about it.
And then the pastor's saying, no, God showed you. You do something
about it. Yeah. Yeah,And I don't want to tell the story
because I've alread told her on thepodcast, probably twice, but there was
a time when God called me outon something similar, and it was basically,
(48:42):
I was angry with an elderly wellnot elderly, I guess, but
she was a grandma. She wasa younger grandma, but she was a
grandma and the way she treated thekids, and I saw this, and
the kids have terrible issues, probablystemming from the way they were treated by
their parents and their grandma. AndI was so angry, and I was
(49:05):
angry with grandma and I was angry. I felt horrible for the kids.
I was angry with the whole family. I was angry with God a little
bit because and I was at thealtar, uh just the short version,
saying God, you can, Ican't do anything about this. You can,
so why don't you fix it?And God kind of, you know,
as he tends to do, hehe uh corrected me a little bit
(49:29):
and and I what I felt likeGod said almost audible. I'm not not
audible, but probably the closest I'veever come to hearing an audible voice,
it was so strong. Was somethingalong the lines of congratulations, you love
the orphans. Now what about thewidows? And this lady was a widow
(49:51):
and and the kids parents were inprison, so practically orphans. So it
was a scenario like where I was. I guess I was maybe proud of
my self for the work I wasdoing with the kids, and I was
upset with grandma, but I didn'tsee that there was a need, a
great need there in her life.And and I was to point, so
(50:15):
God can really totally Yeah, hecan really shake you up sometimes and correct
you. And I think I thinkwe have to be open to that.
If we're open to that, andand people that are not active and you
know in in the church as faras well just loving people, but evangel
you know, that is evangelism alot of ways. But I feel like
(50:36):
as they if they let God correctthem and say, hey, you know,
like you said, it's not justa pastor, it's not just a
few people that are active in layministry. It's it's it's you too.
Uh I will he will correct usand he'll set us on that path.
Well, here's one of the thingsthat I started with to give people the
(50:57):
idea of what it means to havea growth of culture in a church.
I said, here's one thing Iwant you to do, just one thing,
just to start here. Instead ofyou sitting on the pew waiting for
church to start and waiting for somebodyto feed you, waiting for somebody to
entertain you, waiting for somebody togive you something to applaud, why don't
(51:21):
you just walk around and shake handswith somebody you don't know and smile at
them and just say it's gook,good to see you, and you don't
have to welcome them as a newguest, because a lot of times these
people don't know the fact that thatperson has been attending our church for six
months, right, but they don'tknow that. Then the six month person
(51:45):
gets offended that they didn't know thatthey were a part of our church for
six months. And I said,man, it is so good to see
you today. I mean that thatwould be that would fit your preacher,
that would fit anybody that is there, whether been there for fifty two years
or whether they've been there for fiveminutes. For the very first time,
(52:07):
it's good to see you. Myname is. Can you do that?
It's good to see you. Myname is, and then fill in the
blank and there you're off to theraces. You've already given something you have
not given in the past four hundredand seventy three point six years of your
existence in church. And you knowit's some of them act like that old
(52:32):
that's true too. This past SundayI saw something amazing. There was a
there's a newer lady. She's beenin our church for probably a month and
now maybe a little longer six weeks. And she's Haitian. She speaks Haitian
creole, and she speaks a littlebit of Spanish and just a few words
in English, and that's that's it. But she was going out of her
(52:53):
way, and she's fairly new.She's going out of her way to meet
our deaf congregation a our deaf members, and we have three death members.
And she was so proud she hadlearned their names, and she had done
that through an interpreter. So shehad through two interpreters. So she had
to get someone to interpret from fromSpanish to English, and then that person
(53:16):
had to interpret from English to youknow, sign language. And but she
went out of her way. AndI thought, man, if everybody,
I know that everybody has that personality, but if they understand the mission,
as you said, then personality hasa lot less to do with it.
And you start to push out ofyour comfort zone and you start to go
out and do those kind of thingsand it breaks down barriers, multiple layers
(53:40):
of barriers just come down. That'sit. Well, think it's amazing,
Absolutely it is. It's it workslike like like work. That's the key.
It works, It works well.We appreciate we don't want to take
all too much of your time,but I do have one more question before
(54:04):
we talk about whatever projects you havegoing on right now. I know you're
an author and but but as faras the growth in Pensacola. What does
that kind of look like over thelast you know, few years. I
know everybody wants to talk about churchgrowth, and everybody wants talk about plans
and numbers, and I don't reallyconcerned about that. But as you saw
the culture shift, I mean,what what kind of a curve? Uh?
(54:29):
Did you see what kind of whatstood out to you as like a
big shift? Other than I knowit's a it's a gradual thing, it's
consistency, But did you see somethingthat was kind of like a lynch pin
in that? There's several things whenI taught and broke the church down into
smaller groups, and I taught themthe rule of five and how to connect
(54:50):
with Jesus every day. Some ofthe indicators that I saw that the church
was actually transforming is when I wouldput people in the pit, young people,
elderly, whatever, to give testimonyto what God was doing in their
life. They would all refer tomy Rule of five as the key to
(55:10):
that transformation in their life. Andthen like they would come up and say,
you know, I was just readingin my Bible that yesterday and you're
preaching on it tonight, And sothey got excited because now they feel like
they are really hearing from God becauseI'm preaching on what they're reading. So
(55:34):
it's not like I'm pulling the textout of the air just simply to entertain
them. They're realizing, well,He's in the word, I'm in the
word, and they got excited aboutit. Another great indicator was to me,
perhaps one of the most significant,is when they started coming up to
(55:57):
me and telling me about the miraclesthat God was doing while they had were
praying for people out in the communityas I had taught them to do.
Now, don't wait till you getthe church put their name on the list,
and everybody forgets what the need isby that time, and they probably
dead by the time you get tothem on the list, right, but
(56:19):
you could pray. I'm talking aboutmighty miracles. Mighty miracles have been performed
by just our people praying with peoplein the community. And then of course
the you know, there was aprogression. What I think began it is
everybody talking about the Rule of fivein a positive light and how it transformed
(56:42):
them to meet with God every day, and then the sermons and then the
miracles and stuff of that nature.Was just really key indicators to me that
the church, that the church waschanging. That let me know that the
church was changing. And for themto be as excited about the beginning of
the message as they were at theend of a message. You know,
(57:06):
they were all excited. I mean, I'm telling you, I've had our
church just almost explode when I starta message. Wow. Bro, the
struggle the same. He's you know, working in ministry with me here doing
a phenomenal job, and he canjust start and people start worshiping and praising
God. Does they know Jesus,They've been walking with Jesus right, So
(57:29):
you know that's the keyd you startto see it firsthand, not just you
talking about but you see it firsthand. Everything starts to connect, All the
dots come together, all the dotscome together, and that is just magnificent
stuff. Awesome. Yeah, that'sgreat. So, just like Jared has
(57:53):
said, we don't want to takeout too much more of your time,
but I think we do want togive our listeners a chance to if you
just want to briefly talk about someof your books, maybe something new on
the horizon or end where we canpurchase those books and get more resources.
(58:15):
If they're available. I have writtentwo commentaries, one on Philippians and one
on Ephesians, and I have writtenMade for More The Dancing Father, I
choose to win and qualify for yourAnointing, and all of those books can
be purchased at the Word of Flame, Pentecostal's publisher nows Amazon, or they
(58:42):
can go directly to my website Briankinseydot com. And if there's a pastor
or a minister who's hearing this onthis broadcast, I also do personal leadership
coaching through my Refresh Ministry, whichcan be accessed through Brian Kensey. And
I'm presently working on a forty dayJourney Mercy Moments to get people into the
(59:09):
habit of meeting God every day bygiving them inspirational thoughts that they would spark
their thinking to journal and to write, and to get these thoughts down in
writing and written form, because ithelps you to remember if you write it,
(59:29):
and then it helps get in yourspirit when you speak it. Somebody
asks what's the best way to learnthe Bible? Teach a Bible study that
is the truth. Get you atwelve week, eight hundred and fifty two
point three week Bible study and gothrough the teacher's manual, and you'll learn
the Bible from Genesis to Revelation.Now, obviously there are deeper things and
(59:52):
a lot greater deeper subjects that youcan delve into as you study the Word,
but you cannot learn in the Bibleany better than just simply teaching search
for truth or exploring God's word.Both of them are great Bible studies,
absolutely so, absolutely so look forMy Mercy Moments. It'll be coming out
(01:00:14):
in about six months, six toeight months. Awesome, awesome, looking
forward to it. Well, Ihave to say that I have been challenged
and I've also enjoyed it. Thoughhope I can say that it's been enjoyable
and I've been challenged, and Iagree with you. So I know that,
especially the journaling, I don't journal, I'll admit it. I want
(01:00:37):
to be the guy who journals everyday, but I'm not that guy yet,
So I'm working on it. Well, you know, the good thing
is is you don't have to doit every day, you know. I
try to get people just to getinto the habit once a week. Start
there, start once a week,because you've got to have some kind of
(01:00:57):
time frame or you'll never do it. True and say, well, once
a weekend, I'm going to dothis. On Tuesday, I'll have a
little time and I'm going to doit on Tuesday, and then you can
add to it. So I startthem out with one thing to do,
then we'll add to it. AndI'll always tell people pray ten minutes to
(01:01:19):
bread your Bible and pray for tenfifteen minutes. No more, because they're
not good. If it's too much, they'll quit and they'll get discouraged.
And I said, if you missa day, you just start back up
the next day and act like younever miss a day, and you just
keep doing it. Because it tookme almost two years to develop the habit
(01:01:43):
and it'll take you a long timeto do it. But you have to
start. You got to start somewhere, Start small, and then celebrate everything
you do. Don't say, wellI don't have a five, I've only
got one. Well, there's noreason to go around and be mess step
over that. Rejoice, yeah,rejoice absolutely, and what you have done
(01:02:07):
and what God has is doing inyour life celebrated. Awesome. I love
it, I love it. I'vereally enjoyed this. I am. I'm
excited hope that our listeners enjoyed asmuch as as we have. So thank
you so much, and you're morethan welcome. I've enjoyed it myself.
Anytime you want to come back onthe invitation is open, so you let
(01:02:30):
me know and we'll make it happen. All right, Maybe when the next
book comes out, we'll have youback. That sounds awesome, be looking
forward to it.
Well, thank you, brother Kinseyfor going on to two pentegostles and a
microphone podcast. We're honored to haveyou on. I know I have where
you preach several times over the yearsand read a couple of books, and
we've been blessed by your ministry.Sword great to be on. Appreciate you
(00:31):
inviting me to be a part ofthis because this is the way I can
impart to others what the Lord hasput in my heart, and that way
it's a beautiful opportunity for me tobe able to create that spiritual impartation that
I think is so vital in thisgeneration. Amen. Awesome, Yeah,
(00:51):
we are so glad, uh,so glad that you're here. And we
just love having people on who whoare creative people, writer, you know,
preacher, writer. I don't knowwhat you label yourself, but a
lot of different things, I guess, pastor. But I just love having
people on that can give us,give us insight from from all their experience
(01:15):
and and what God has given him. So so welcome, and I know
brother Bryce was able to uh whenyou were at the Indiana District conference just
recently. I wasn't able to bethere for the morning session but brother Bryce
was able to join for that excellent. We had a wonderful time. It
(01:38):
was just phenomenal. Yeah, itwas great, and I appreciate all the
resources that you provided, and andI'm almost finished with the Dancing Bother.
I started it last week and gettingthrough it. So thank you for the
book and welcome resources. I enjoyedthat sermon, uh to uh. I
(02:04):
didn't get to go to that thatsession, like I said, but really
enjoyed the sermon that I was ableto hear. I think it was was
it Saturday, I believe the Saturdaythat one I was able to be at.
So so we have used one ofyour books, Made for More,
I believe is the one that weuse for a men's Bible study. So
(02:24):
we familiar familiar with your with yourwork. Bryce. You want to kind
of lead off on that and maybewe can start there and h and kind
of circle around to our theme whichis which has been for a while now,
discipleship and evangelism. So I thinkwe'll actually get to that. Yeah.
(02:49):
So I've been leading a a men'sBible study group with our church and
I felt like God impressed on myheart maybe a few years ago that there
were some Uh, they weren't necessarilynew converts. They've they've been a part
(03:12):
of our church for a while.But I can see that we've kind of
I'm trying to be delicate here,but uh, kind of ignored, ignored
this group of guys for a littlebit. And I just felt like,
God tell me that, you know, you need to just invite them in
and we could study God's word andah and just kind of develop each other
(03:36):
and go through some you know,personal growth and uh. We we started
off with a few different Bible studiesand we got into a few books,
but the last book we did readwas Made for More and yeah, it
was a it was a great,great resource and definitely uh and it's something
(04:00):
you touched on in that morning sessionwith the Indiana District Conference. But that
rule of five. And I've justbeen trying to apply that in my own
life and finding out what my ruleof five is and and it's it's been
it's been great. It's it's beenrevolutionary really in my personal walk with God
(04:25):
and my evangelism and disciples dip ofothers. So for me, I struggle
a little bit with focus just narrowingit down to the important things. So
the concepts like that that I canapply in a practical way to help me
maintain focus, that that really helpsme because if I don't have a plan,
(04:46):
you know, let's see a squirreland I'm gone. Well, there
are a lot of distractions in ourworld today that keeps people from focusing on
what they need to They don't understandwhat are the most vital, important things
that they need to do every day. And of course, connecting to Jesus
and connecting to God, making surethat connection does not get interrupted by anything
(05:13):
in their path. That is vitalfor today's world. We need to stay
connected to the Lord Jesus Christ.That's where our strength comes from to overcome
everything. Right, got it?So what are you? What are your
five Obviously that's the number one.So for you personally, what are your
(05:36):
what are your five things? Well? The five things that I do personally,
Number one is I read pray theWord every day. Every day I've
got an input of the Word.It's not how much word or how much
prayer you do necessarily lest God callsyou to a lot of prayer. Is
(05:57):
praying that word seeking God, learnwhat that Bible says about you, not
about somebody else, not about aprophetic word for the church, which that
will come at times. But mostlyI'm interested in is what does God have
to say to me? That's whatI want to hear in that rule of
(06:17):
five. What is God telling methat I need to do? And then
the second thing is is I writeor I journal what I have prayed and
read, because that's the second lawof learning is not just reading, but
you got to write it. Andthen the third thing that I do is
I speak the word to someone,a word of encouragement, to a leader
(06:41):
that is ahead of me, alongsideme, or that is following me.
I speak that word to a leader. And then the fourth thing I do
is speak the word to our hurtingsoul, saint or sinner, and most
of the time it's both. Andthen on the fifth thing is is to
reflect back whether or not I accomplishedand who did I minister to? Who
(07:05):
did I speak into their life?What did I accomplish? Do I need
to follow up? And then setthe next day up? Wow? And
those are non negotiable, every singleday, every day. Got to do
it. It is that is sopowerful, especially you said speaking a word
(07:26):
of encouragement and I think a lotof times it's easy when you're in ministry
of some sort to get caught upin the day to day, you know,
get in the weeds and you forget. Maybe you're evolved in with those
hurting people or whatever, maybe you'rereally busy with them, but you might
forget to take the time to encourageyour pastor or like you said, someone
(07:48):
working aroundside you. And we allneed that from time to time. I'm
sure I can't imagine. I've alwayssaid, if God calls me to be
a pastor, I'll be a pastor. But I really kind of hope he
doesn't because of all of the pressure. I would much rather be the second
man, or the third or fourth. But that is a lot of a
(08:11):
lot of weight on someone's shoulders.Well, a lot of times, as
pastors, you're going to get blamedfor things that are really not your fault,
but because of people's emotions and they'reupset and they feel like you should
have been able to do something aboutit, and if you would have preached
better, if you would have donethis better, they wouldn't have the misery
(08:33):
they have in their life. Whenthe truth of the matter is most of
the misery. We cause probably ninetyfive to ninety eight percent of all the
misery we have. We created itourselves by wrong choices, and we want
somebody to wave a magic wand andpray over us and fix everything. And
when it doesn't happen, we getupset about it. And so we've got
(08:54):
to realize that we've got to grow. Growth is recognizing my responsibility to take
command and charge of my chaos.You're not the reason for my chaos.
I'm the reason, or life isthe reason, and I need to accept
responsibility. Whether I caused it ornot doesn't matter. I have to deal
(09:18):
with it nevertheless, and it's myresponsibility to deal with my chaos. Wow.
Good, Absolutely, I was.I remember for years volunteering at the
juvenile detention center, and that wassomething that we preached a lot, was
you may not be the cause ofa lot of your problems, because these
(09:39):
kids are you know, obviously they'remaking choices, but those choices are so
heavily influenced by dysfunctional families and allthese other things that they feel like they
are victims, and in a lotof you know, to a great degree,
they are. But our message manytimes was was no matter who was
responsible or no matter who caused yourproblems. You have to take responsibility or
(10:01):
nothing will ever change. You can'tjust keep it absolutely. Yeah, Well,
what happens a lot of times isthe victim mentality begins to seemen in
their thinking. Then they're always playingthe victim card because they found that they
can manipulate people to do what theywant them to do by playing the victim
(10:24):
card. So they in their mindslife becomes easier, but they don't realize
that there's a price to pay forthat, and they actually become trapped in
a relationship to where they're dependent oneverybody. They become dependent. And when
you become dependent, then you reallyare a victim. And that's the product
(10:46):
of being a victim. And sowe got to deliver people from the victim
mentality by giving them purpose and asense of ownership of their purpose and their
destiny. They can change anything.They may not be able to change the
past, but they can change theirfuture, right right, that's awesome.
(11:09):
Yeah, So it's not just thatyou were victimized. It becomes your identity
at that point, and you area victim and then and then there's no
if you don't get out of thatmindset. There's no escaping your your situation,
no escaping, and you become dependentand then your slave to whoever you're
dependent on. And so it's justa cycle of slavery, right, And
(11:33):
that's why God when he got Israelout of Egypt, he never got Egypt
out of them until he brought himin the wilderness. And the whole generation
had to die before they killed Egyptin Israel to bring him into the Promised
Lands so that they would have thenew identity of who God wanted them to
be walking in their promise, theirdestiny, their authority. Wow. Yeah,
(12:00):
So Bryce, you can speak tothis, but I know and you
might you might have some personal insights. But we we deal with a lot
of families, a lot of kids, especially in our ministries that we are
involved in, who just have somesevere generational problems, just massive generational curses.
(12:26):
So uh, and Bryce, youknow you have personal, very very
personal stories along those lines. Bryce, you want to take a second and
maybe just kind of go down thatpath, like with with some of your
experiences, I know, with youwith the refuge, with being a foster
parent and those those kind of theweight of that family curse. Absolutely.
(12:54):
Honestly, we're still in the middleof it, and I think my wife
and I are are struggling a littlebit on how to how to get her,
get this family that we're a partof, out of this generational curse
(13:15):
that they have mom. So,yeah, we became foster parents this past
year. We had a a youngthirteen year old boy for almost a year,
so he was in the foster systemfor a long time, and we've
made a connection with mom and we'vesort of maintained that connection since he's actually
(13:41):
gone back home. But it's stilla terrible situation and we're basically taken in
day by day. But Mom isGuatemalan and so there's this huge language barrier,
(14:01):
and there's all these cultural differences andand how how how she handles how
she is as a parent, Andit's not necessarily a good thing, but
yeah, we're probably probably her expectationsjust from observation, like even her expectations
of like normal relationships, right,Yeah, Yeah, it's it's honestly,
(14:30):
it's been a really big struggle andwe've we've had her at church a few
times and just trying to minister toher the best that we can and helping
her. DCS is actually want theywant us to like hold back on how
(14:54):
much help we're giving her because becausewe're we're almost enabling her problems and and
so we're we're on we're conflicted becauseuh, at church, this past year
we started a new program. Wecall it the Allied Program where we we're
there are members in the church thatare adopting families and that's good, it's
(15:20):
a great program. Yeah, andwe're just being being a resource for for
families in our community that desperately needit, being a physical resource as well
as a spiritual resource. And yeah, so this family is our Allied family
and we want to help them somuch, but it's at the same time,
(15:43):
it's she's got stuff she has tomeet based based off our government and
what they what they expect, andso it has been it has been a
real struggle and trying to balance thatand how do we move forward. And
(16:03):
it's definitely that generational curse that's onthis family is is strong and all all
that my wife and I know todo is pray and just seek God and
try to hopefully the Holy Ghost willlead us to a path. But and
(16:27):
how I mean you don't thinking froma practical standpoint, you know the five
those five things that you do personally, that's very very practical and easy to
apply. But when you're trying tohelp come alongside and help a family in
a situation like that or is itis there some kind of framework or something
that you use to kind of helpthink through how do I help this family
(16:49):
and not not just enable them.You know, we want to be a
help that you know with physical needsand all those things, but how do
we help them out of that situation? First of all, somehow you've got
to be able to help the youngman change his thinking where they begin to
think differently than they have thought before, where we don't have to live like
(17:15):
this because they've seemed absolutely no wayout of this circumstance where they have any
possibility or hope of going beyond thispoint and living any other way than what
they're living right now, and wehave to give them the hope. That's
where I really focus in Made forMore book learning how to speak hope and
(17:38):
to people that are hopeless where they'vegot the hope that if I can show
you the path of how you canchange your circumstance for the future what's happened
before. We can't do anything aboutthe dysfunction you're being raised in. You
can't do anything about that. Butthere's going to come in time when you're
(18:00):
going to have choices to make,and I want to show you the path,
and I want to show you howto accomplish what I know God wants
to do in your life. Andof course you know as well as I
do. If they don't turn theirheart over to God, they don't start
coming to church and worshiping and praisingthe Lord, really seeking after God,
(18:22):
it's going to be very difficult tochange your thinking because the number one,
it's like the scripture only one timein the New Testament talks about the renewing
of our spirit, and that's inTitus three five, But there are three
times it talks about the renewing ofour mind and even talks about the renewing
(18:42):
of the spirit of our minds.So it's three times more important for your
thinking to get straight than for yourspirit to get straight, because most of
the time, if the enemy's goingto defeat your spirit and mess your spirit
up, he's got to go throughthe mind first, and so he messages
(19:03):
your thinking enough to get you toyour spirit. That's why you got to
constantly purge that thinking. And theonly way to do that is to get
him around some positive influences that arespeaking this continually. You can do this,
you can overcome giving him hope,but by the same token, modeling
the path for him right in frontof his eyes and getting him to church
(19:27):
is going to be very key.And being in God's presence and around God's
people that love him and love theKingdom and love to see this transformation take
place in his life. That's goingto be that's going to be volumes of
good that will come out of it. And I just I'm just going to
(19:48):
claim in Jesus' name with you inagreement, and God's going to let you
be the voice and show him thatmodel and lead him out of this mess
because he obviously has been exposed tosome good things and now it's got to
take root and produce the fruit thatwe know he can. But he's just
(20:11):
got to have some positive influences givehim hope that he can do this,
and then I wouldn't focus on fivethings for him. I would focus on
doing one thing every day. Youknow what helps you to grow, to
expand your mind, your thinking,and I get him on the one thing.
(20:32):
You don't have to do it awhole. It's not how long he
does it during the day, it'swhether or not we can get him to
do it every day. It's theeveryday nest that changes you. Right.
Wow, Yeah, I love that. It's that positive influence you're talking about.
You know, I'm thinking of afamily that is really the adoptive family
(20:53):
of brother Aaron Herewood and his wife, and they have over the core.
So now it's been several years now, two girls that are about their daughter's
age have become a part of thechurch. And then their parents or their
mom for sure is a member ofour Spanish congregation and and their more and
(21:15):
more of their family are getting connected. But it was a matter of time
and and that positive influence being atchurch, being around people, seeing that,
and then also I think a bigshift for them came when they when
they came to the Christian School becausethen it was truly every day, every
(21:36):
day, all day during the schoolyear. And uh, it really I
think made a huge difference. So, you know, and of course that's
not always possible, but that dailyinfluence you're right, it's I don't think
you can. You can over sellthat, No, you can't. And
you've got to have somebody in proximityto them that can expect them to what
(22:00):
we know they need to be doingevery day. The more we can input
and do it in a positive lfe, not like in a condemning like you're
not doing it, I am soI'm better than you are type concept,
that doesn't help anybody. That's justbecomes the selfishness of self righteousness, and
(22:22):
that doesn't help anyone. We haveto lead people because we would all be
in the same condition if it hadn'tbeen for the Lord who rescued us,
and God rescued us made us grace. Trying to draw them, not trying
to not shoving them along the way. But that's not pushing them yet.
They may need that little nudge everyonce in a while, but that's when
(22:45):
wisdom. That's why I have topray every day is because I don't have
the wisdom for all of this stuff. I don't have the wisdom to help
everybody I meet. I need Jesusto do that. I need him to
show up in honor of the wordsthat we speak into people's lives, whether
they're prophetically or whether they're instructive,corrective, whatever, You've got to have
(23:07):
God on your side to do that. Absolutely, absolutely, So Bryce and
I have been We've we've done severalinterviews. Let's see how many episodes have
we done now on this kind ofarc of discipleship and evangelism. It's been
maybe seven or eight, I don'tknow, it's been probably several several.
(23:30):
I think it's it's been on myheart a lot for the last couple of
years, and we've started to seesome some things in Seymour. I think
that of maybe somewhat a result ofthat burden I think God has put on
some people in our church. Andthen also it's it's kind of fueling it,
and it's it's kind of getting gainingmomentum. But so I've been wanting
(23:53):
to get other people's perspectives and oneof the things we were thinking was a
law. You talk a lot aboutleadership and self development, right, developing
yourself, growing personal growth, lead, growing leaders, training leaders, preparing
people. How does a leader createan environment? A pastor, whether it's
(24:17):
a pastor or a lay leader orwhatever, how do they contribute to an
environment that that is evangelism and discipleshipdriven and that will result in a growing
church. I know your church inPensacola is a growing church and they're exploding,
and I'm very thankful also, I'mvery thankful for that. Okay,
(24:37):
there are several things that have tohappen for us to be able to create
that kind of environment that you're talkingabout. So let me just share with
you some of the things that I'vewitnessed in my local church and what had
to change. And every church isgoing to be just a little bit different,
but most churches will find themselves somewherealong this path. They will resemble
(25:03):
some of the remarks that I make, and they have to learn how to
apply that to themselves and then goto work on being proactive change it.
Here's the number one killer of allrevival and evangelism and discipleship. The number
one killer is toxic Pentecostal culture.Our culture, not our faith, not
(25:27):
our holiness, not our worship,not our praise, not our Bible studies.
It's culture and a culture that iscentered around the American idol concept,
where in order for me to receivesomething from God, somebody's got to perform
(25:48):
for me. I need a pulpiteerwho has the eloquence to speech me out
of my bad mood and get meback into a good mood and feeling good
about myself. Or I need agood songster. I need a wonderful singing
group to come along and sing meinto a new realm. Well, the
(26:11):
only place in the Bible where thatscenario is seen and mirrored is in the
life of Saul when he needed aDavid to get the evil spirit off up
off his life. And as longas that exists in our churches, you're
going to have a hard time sellingpeople on evangelism and discipleship because they're relaxed.
(26:37):
They're there to receive, perform forme, and then if I clap,
I'll let you know whether or notI think it was a good performance.
Most people respond at the end ofthe message if they're going to give
you any kind of compliment. They'renot going to come up and say,
oh, that just changed my life. You gave me three things I need
to start working on tomorrow. Inever hear that. Always here, I
(27:00):
enjoyed that. I really enjoy yourpreaching. And so when I've taught our
church, I said, don't comeup here and tell me you enjoyed it,
because that's just a performance and you'rejust being entertained. You need to
come up here and say I agreewith that, and I'm going to work
on every point you mentioned and I'mgoing to include that in my life.
(27:22):
So I've taught our church don't waittill you get to church to bring your
passion. Go into your closet ofprayer and do your rule of five and
develop your passion in relationship to JesusChrist that when you walk through the door,
you are passionate about worshiping Jesus fromthe first song. You don't need
(27:45):
anybody to get you in a goodmood. You come to church in a
good mood, or you recognize ifyou're in a bad mood, you're not
going to hold anybody responsible around youfor that. You're going to know that
God has sent you here. Thereare three essential things that I teach our
(28:06):
church all the time in some formor another that develops discipleship and develops this
passion that I want them to bringwith them to church, and that produces
what I call a healthy culture thatis conducive for growth. And that's the
ability to let people know I'm gladyou're here, even though I don't like
(28:29):
where they're at right now. Idon't like what they're doing as far as
their life style is concerned. ButI'm glad they're here, and we welcome
them and love on them, eventhough they haven't made one move towards jesus
Hip. We don't have to sitback and look at them like there's some
kind of dog that just got druginto the church. Because they've lived in
(28:52):
sin. Their life's a mess,they're miserable. They need Jesus and they
need somebody to welcome them and puttheir arms around them. So I'm changing
the culture to a welcoming, lovinggathering spirit. You're welcome in our church.
Our church is open for business.I don't care who they are.
I don't care if they're tall they'reshort, whether they're big or small,
(29:17):
whether they're black or white. Racedoesn't matter, Social economic, uh situation
in strata in society doesn't matter.What matters is that they're there. That's
what matters. Say, Well,what if they're there for the wrong reason,
Well, we don't know that.You can't judge that. That's not
(29:41):
our it's not my you know that'sabove my pay grade. I'm there to
accept them right where they're at now. I don't want to leave them that
way. I want Jesus to changethem, but we got to. We
got to give Jesus a chance.I don't want to mess Jesus up by
being on Jesus do them. Sothe first thing is I want them to
(30:06):
know their mission. You cannot accomplishwhat God wants you to do if you
don't know why you're there. Whyare you here. I'm not here to
receive. I'm here to minister.I'm not here to get something from this
service. I'm here to give somethingto this service, to add value.
(30:30):
I'll receive more by giving than Iwould ever by plopping myself down on the
pew and saying perform from me,because I'm too tired to add value.
And that's just not I mean,you go to work tired and you still
give it your all because you're gettinga paycheck at the end of the week.
(30:51):
So you same at church. Imay not get a paycheck, but
I'm gonna walk in and I'm goingto add value to it. Right,
Believe I remember, absolutely, Iremember a perfect example. I think of
that when I was I was ateenager, and there was a boy,
(31:11):
probably a little younger than me,he's probably twelve at the time, have
been seeking the Holy Ghost for probablymonths at that point and just could not
for whatever reason, couldn't break through. And one one service, there were
people gathered around the altar and therewas someone else seeking the Holy Ghost,
and he went up and prayed forthem to receive the Holy Ghost. And
that's the night that he got it. So he'd taken the focus off of
(31:33):
himself. Yeah, and he's he'sin a giving mode and not up in
his head about I need to speakin tongues. He's just he's just there
to give and to pray with someoneelse. And and that's when it happened.
Well, if the Bible is true, and I believe it is,
that if you give, it shallbe given unto you, pressed down,
(31:56):
shaking together and running over. Soif you want a must duplication of what
you've given to where you go homewith more than what you started with,
even though you gave it all inthe service, you apply the principle of
giving, and God sees to itthat it's returned back to you. I
don't believe in burnout in the church. I believe if we burn out,
(32:20):
we're not walking with Jesus every day. If we burnout, then we're not
walking with Jesus. Now, Iunderstand getting discouraged. I understand needing input
in order to be able to strengthenour walk with God. But you never
come across God's altar with a desireto receive. You come to give because
(32:42):
we want the fire to fall ofthe pulpit. We want follow the pew,
But the Bible designed the fire tofollow the altar. And if you're
not on that altar, there's onlyone sacrifice since Jesus died of the Cross
that God will accept, and thatis for me to present my body a
living sacrifice. He will not acceptany other sacrifice. I can't substitute anything
(33:06):
for that. I have to geton that altar, and I have to
give myself to Jesus. But hepromised that if I did, he would
press down, shaken together, andrun over the blessing in my life.
So they need to know the mission, and then they need to know the
message. If you don't know whatyou're talking about, and you don't know
(33:30):
what you're trying to get, peopleto do, or to see or to
accomplish. Then you don't have anypassion because you don't know your message.
I've heard Pentecostals who have been inchurch all of their life says, I
don't know what to say. Whatyou've been in church all your ever loved
(33:50):
life and you don't know what tosay. Well say Jesus loves you.
You can do that, Jesus wept. Use the shortest verse in the Bible
and memorize it. It's two words. He cries over you because he loves
you. Just say that. That'llchange people's lives right there, because nobody's
(34:13):
cried over them in a long time. They've been angry, they've spit on
them, they've you know, condescendinglytalk to them, talk down to them.
And now Jesus wants me to acceptmy mission and develop my message in
the reason of the hope that lieswithin me. Is my message. Jesus
(34:36):
is my message. I'm gonna sayJared, listen, jaredith, I love
you. Jesus loves you. We'regonna pray for you. I don't have
the answer. I don't know everything, but I know Jesus has got the
answer. That's my message, Jesusis the answer. It's just that simple.
They don't have to go complicated oneverybody. And the know the algebraic
(35:01):
formula for determining what the numbers ofthe Old Testament refer to, how to
work out all of that dumerology anddifferent types and shadows, and that's all
interesting stuff to preach and study itnot against that, but that's not our
message. Our messages Jesus, Jesusstayed, Jesus heals speak that. Keep
(35:28):
it simple, like you said,keep it simple. Absolutely. I work
in marketing, and you know,I have a small marketing business here and
we do. We deal with thatall the time. Most most small businesses
don't know what their message is.They might know what they do, but
they might do several things through thecourse of a day, or they might
offer several services. But they gotto narrow down their message because if you
(35:52):
tell somebody all of it at once, you haven't told them anything. So
you have to have to narrow downand make the point, make the point.
And every Pentecostal church which creates aculture and an atmosphere of making the
point the message simple, powerful,life changing message of the Gospel of Jesus
(36:17):
Christ being able to live that witha smile, with joy, not with
they need to do something for me, not you need to give me something
for this. I'm talking about ajoy, a love for the truth,
love for these people because Jesus lovedhim enough to die for them before he
(36:39):
ever knew or before they were everburned into this world. Jesus knew them,
of course prophetically and through his omniscience, he knew them, but he
died for them before they were everborn. That's my message. Jesus died
on the cross for your sins.Again, He'll fill you with the all
(37:00):
egost. He loves you. Man. What a message, What a Jesus,
What a savior? So you gotto know the mission. Why you
got to know your message. Yougot to know the master. If you
don't know the one that you're talkingabout, you're just talking about a subject.
(37:21):
Jesus is not a subject. He'smy savior. He's not an idea.
He's a person, and he's notjust any person. He's the person
of the Godhead and it all dwellsin him bodily. So we're talking about
God Almighty here. We're not talkingabout the second person in the Godhead.
(37:43):
We're not talking about God the Son. We're talking about the God manifests in
the flesh, and that is somethingworth knowing, connecting to learning walking with
him. That's where our annoying comesfrom. Our annoying doesn't come from our
(38:05):
skills set or our talents. Itcomes from knowing the Master. If you
walk with him, my my mind, passion will develop in your spirit and
you'll be able to change that youngman's life with the passion that you have
for Jesus. Know it. Youcan't help him, but Jesus can.
(38:27):
You may not be able to makethe difference and give him all the answers
to what will break him out ofthis victim mentality, but Jesus can,
and not only can he do it, he will do it because he told
the leoper he said, if thouwilt, that can make me clean,
and Jesus said, okay, Iwill. It's the same thing. In
(38:49):
every church service, we got peopleexcited. I got people praying all over
Pensacola for sick people, in themall, in walmartferent places they might go
where they would meet some hurting soul. You don't need to rev up,
You don't need to call the church. I mean you can, but you
don't have to pray form yourself rightthen, somebody say you need to put
(39:13):
my baby on the prayer list,or my husband or my wife. Don't
wait, don't wait for a listof a hundred different names. Nobody knows
anything. Pray right then, withauthority in Jesus name. You are the
messenger of grace that God has savedand chosen for this generation to be a
(39:36):
bearer of the voice of one cryingin the wilderness saying, prepare you the
way of the Lord, make hispath straight. And God's going to do
that. He will honor his wordfor speaking it into people's lives with love.
He will honor that word. Wow. And yeah, that's just to
(40:00):
confirm something in my spirit too.I felt a few years ago God clearly
spoke to me and really convicted me. Where our church used to be at
a campus downtown, and right acrossthe street was this just run down apartment
(40:23):
complex, and I mean just poverty, and there was kids just running in
and out and all just all kindsof people, desperate people. And but
we would right across the street isthis vibrant, uh you know, church
(40:45):
and we have these amazing services,these blowout services where God God did some
incredible things in our lives. Andas soon as church is over, we
walk out and we would you know, we'd see that apartment complex, but
that we went and think twice itwould just be you know, going to
the restaurant or going back home andgoing back back to our normal lives.
(41:08):
I suppose. And I felt Godreally convict me and he basically accused me
of spiritual hoarding, just keeping itall for myself. And that's a good
way of saying it. Yeah,and I made it a point in my
(41:30):
life that I'm no longer going todo that. Yeah, it's wonderful what
God did for me in that service, but it is I have to give.
I have to give it back.And Amen, try to reach as
many people as I can with thatmessage. Well, let me just give
(41:50):
you a little scenario here of sinceI've been listening to your voice and kind
of picking up them some things thatyou're saying, to give you an idea
of what kind of culture the churchneeds to develop in order to be an
evangelistic, discipling powerhouse that God hasintended us to be. Bryce made a
(42:12):
statement earlier in our broadcast our podcasthere tonight, that he had saw a
need, and then he stopped andsaid, I need to be careful here,
because he didn't want to be criticalthat a need that was being presented
to him in the spirit, thechurch wasn't meeting that need at that particular
(42:34):
time, and so God put iton his heart to develop ministry that would
meet that need that he saw.And here's toxic Pentecostal culture. They see
a need, they get mad,They go to the preacher. Why aren't
(42:57):
you doing something about this? Godis saying, no, you don't need
to get mad at the preacher.You need to find out I am mad.
I the Lord am angry with youbecause I showed you the need and
you didn't do anything about it.That's not the preacher's job to meet every
(43:17):
need that's in that church. Thesaints have to be empowered to do the
work of the ministry. One mancan't do it all, and so that
is critical to developing culture that supportsevangelism and discipleship. Without that component,
(43:43):
that's just one aspect, that's justone way of thinking and looking at it
that removes toxicity. Because anytime yougot blame and accusation in your voice.
It's toxic. Not one time.I don't care if you're right. I
don't care if you've got evidence.I don't care what you've got that's toxic.
(44:05):
The only voice that is not toxicis Lord. You have shown me
this need. What do you wantme to do about it? If Isaiah
before Isaiah chapter six, he wasblaming Israel, he was blasting their hides.
He was blowing them up with nuclearbombs. You reprobates. God's gonna
(44:29):
cut you off forever. You're notworth the time of day and own and
own. He went until he sawthe Lord high and lifted up, and
then he said, Lord, heream I send me. That's the difference
between the toxicity of negative, judgmentalprophecy that did not have Messianic hope and
(44:53):
purpose. It doesn't mean they weren'tsinners. And he wasn't right about everything
he said. It's in the Bible. He was right about everything he said.
But when he saw vision of God, God said, okay, now
I'm the one supposed to do somethingabout this. And so he developed the
Revelation of Messiah, and he developedpreaching that would give us Messianic cope,
(45:20):
and the desert's gonna blossom as arose, and God's gonna destroy and defeat
the dragon, and the grass isgonna grow right where his belly is.
Grass is gonna grow because you know, if there's a dragon in the place,
there's not gonna be any grass growinganywhere. He'll burn it up.
But God said, his fire can'ttouch this growth. He's creating a growth
(45:42):
atmosphere in the face of hostility.Don't tell me it can't happen. And
that came out of a brother thatwas purely toxic in his prophecies until he
saw God and then the Lord said. Then he said to the Lord,
send me in. That was whatPrice was saying, God, send me
right me. You showed this tome. Now it's my responsibility to do
(46:07):
something. Now, of course,with your pastor's permission proof I understand all
the protocols in place, but it'syour responsibility to do what God showed you.
That's when the culture is changing.That's when you'll start dumbling and tripling
and multiplying the number of disciples inthe church. That's leadership right there.
(46:29):
Leadership is not holding a position ora title. Leadership is recognizing a need,
forming a team and going after itand taking care of that. That's
leadership. Wow. Yeah, AndI envisioned. And I know I get
impatient, and I'm sure we alldo at some points. But I see
(46:51):
more and more people in the churchstarting to pick up on this, like
they get the vision and they startto get involved, and they start to
see what God is doing, andthey decide to be a part of it,
not just you know, sitting thereand watching it. So I know
that if there's consistency among among theleadership and then among those in the congregation
(47:15):
that are that are a part ofit, then eventually it has to spread
further and further throughout the congregation.If it's got to, it becomes a
contagion. I mean, we wehad COVID nineteen. Why does COVID have
to be the only contagion. Whycan't passion? Why can't discipleship? Why
(47:36):
can't I? Lord here, amI saying me, not, Jared?
If you get up off your benchand you do something, Bryce, why
aren't you doing something about this?No, God's telling me, why don't
I do something about it? Right? And as that spreads throughout a congregation,
(47:57):
then it just multiplies. It multiplies, mucktiplies, because everybody gets a
vision, everybody sees a need.That's what ministry is. It's just seeing
the need meeting it that there's nothingmore to it than that. Absolutely.
But toxicity, toxic culture is whenyou're always wanting somebody else to do it.
Here's the need. I'm complaining,I'm driping. Now, pastor,
(48:21):
you do something about it. You'vepastored, you do something about it.
And then the pastor's saying, no, God showed you. You do something
about it. Yeah. Yeah,And I don't want to tell the story
because I've alread told her on thepodcast, probably twice, but there was
a time when God called me outon something similar, and it was basically,
(48:42):
I was angry with an elderly wellnot elderly, I guess, but
she was a grandma. She wasa younger grandma, but she was a
grandma and the way she treated thekids, and I saw this, and
the kids have terrible issues, probablystemming from the way they were treated by
their parents and their grandma. AndI was so angry, and I was
(49:05):
angry with grandma and I was angry. I felt horrible for the kids.
I was angry with the whole family. I was angry with God a little
bit because and I was at thealtar, uh just the short version,
saying God, you can, Ican't do anything about this. You can,
so why don't you fix it?And God kind of, you know,
as he tends to do, hehe uh corrected me a little bit
(49:29):
and and I what I felt likeGod said almost audible. I'm not not
audible, but probably the closest I'veever come to hearing an audible voice,
it was so strong. Was somethingalong the lines of congratulations, you love
the orphans. Now what about thewidows? And this lady was a widow
(49:51):
and and the kids parents were inprison, so practically orphans. So it
was a scenario like where I was. I guess I was maybe proud of
my self for the work I wasdoing with the kids, and I was
upset with grandma, but I didn'tsee that there was a need, a
great need there in her life.And and I was to point, so
(50:15):
God can really totally Yeah, hecan really shake you up sometimes and correct
you. And I think I thinkwe have to be open to that.
If we're open to that, andand people that are not active and you
know in in the church as faras well just loving people, but evangel
you know, that is evangelism alot of ways. But I feel like
(50:36):
as they if they let God correctthem and say, hey, you know,
like you said, it's not justa pastor, it's not just a
few people that are active in layministry. It's it's it's you too.
Uh I will he will correct usand he'll set us on that path.
Well, here's one of the thingsthat I started with to give people the
(50:57):
idea of what it means to havea growth of culture in a church.
I said, here's one thing Iwant you to do, just one thing,
just to start here. Instead ofyou sitting on the pew waiting for
church to start and waiting for somebodyto feed you, waiting for somebody to
entertain you, waiting for somebody togive you something to applaud, why don't
(51:21):
you just walk around and shake handswith somebody you don't know and smile at
them and just say it's gook,good to see you, and you don't
have to welcome them as a newguest, because a lot of times these
people don't know the fact that thatperson has been attending our church for six
months, right, but they don'tknow that. Then the six month person
(51:45):
gets offended that they didn't know thatthey were a part of our church for
six months. And I said,man, it is so good to see
you today. I mean that thatwould be that would fit your preacher,
that would fit anybody that is there, whether been there for fifty two years
or whether they've been there for fiveminutes. For the very first time,
(52:07):
it's good to see you. Myname is. Can you do that?
It's good to see you. Myname is, and then fill in the
blank and there you're off to theraces. You've already given something you have
not given in the past four hundredand seventy three point six years of your
existence in church. And you knowit's some of them act like that old
(52:32):
that's true too. This past SundayI saw something amazing. There was a
there's a newer lady. She's beenin our church for probably a month and
now maybe a little longer six weeks. And she's Haitian. She speaks Haitian
creole, and she speaks a littlebit of Spanish and just a few words
in English, and that's that's it. But she was going out of her
(52:53):
way, and she's fairly new.She's going out of her way to meet
our deaf congregation a our deaf members, and we have three death members.
And she was so proud she hadlearned their names, and she had done
that through an interpreter. So shehad through two interpreters. So she had
to get someone to interpret from fromSpanish to English, and then that person
(53:16):
had to interpret from English to youknow, sign language. And but she
went out of her way. AndI thought, man, if everybody,
I know that everybody has that personality, but if they understand the mission,
as you said, then personality hasa lot less to do with it.
And you start to push out ofyour comfort zone and you start to go
out and do those kind of thingsand it breaks down barriers, multiple layers
(53:40):
of barriers just come down. That'sit. Well, think it's amazing,
Absolutely it is. It's it workslike like like work. That's the key.
It works, It works well.We appreciate we don't want to take
all too much of your time,but I do have one more question before
(54:04):
we talk about whatever projects you havegoing on right now. I know you're
an author and but but as faras the growth in Pensacola. What does
that kind of look like over thelast you know, few years. I
know everybody wants to talk about churchgrowth, and everybody wants talk about plans
and numbers, and I don't reallyconcerned about that. But as you saw
the culture shift, I mean,what what kind of a curve? Uh?
(54:29):
Did you see what kind of whatstood out to you as like a
big shift? Other than I knowit's a it's a gradual thing, it's
consistency, But did you see somethingthat was kind of like a lynch pin
in that? There's several things whenI taught and broke the church down into
smaller groups, and I taught themthe rule of five and how to connect
(54:50):
with Jesus every day. Some ofthe indicators that I saw that the church
was actually transforming is when I wouldput people in the pit, young people,
elderly, whatever, to give testimonyto what God was doing in their
life. They would all refer tomy Rule of five as the key to
(55:10):
that transformation in their life. Andthen like they would come up and say,
you know, I was just readingin my Bible that yesterday and you're
preaching on it tonight, And sothey got excited because now they feel like
they are really hearing from God becauseI'm preaching on what they're reading. So
(55:34):
it's not like I'm pulling the textout of the air just simply to entertain
them. They're realizing, well,He's in the word, I'm in the
word, and they got excited aboutit. Another great indicator was to me,
perhaps one of the most significant,is when they started coming up to
(55:57):
me and telling me about the miraclesthat God was doing while they had were
praying for people out in the communityas I had taught them to do.
Now, don't wait till you getthe church put their name on the list,
and everybody forgets what the need isby that time, and they probably
dead by the time you get tothem on the list, right, but
(56:19):
you could pray. I'm talking aboutmighty miracles. Mighty miracles have been performed
by just our people praying with peoplein the community. And then of course
the you know, there was aprogression. What I think began it is
everybody talking about the Rule of fivein a positive light and how it transformed
(56:42):
them to meet with God every day, and then the sermons and then the
miracles and stuff of that nature.Was just really key indicators to me that
the church, that the church waschanging. That let me know that the
church was changing. And for themto be as excited about the beginning of
the message as they were at theend of a message. You know,
(57:06):
they were all excited. I mean, I'm telling you, I've had our
church just almost explode when I starta message. Wow. Bro, the
struggle the same. He's you know, working in ministry with me here doing
a phenomenal job, and he canjust start and people start worshiping and praising
God. Does they know Jesus,They've been walking with Jesus right, So
(57:29):
you know that's the keyd you startto see it firsthand, not just you
talking about but you see it firsthand. Everything starts to connect, All the
dots come together, all the dotscome together, and that is just magnificent
stuff. Awesome. Yeah, that'sgreat. So, just like Jared has
(57:53):
said, we don't want to takeout too much more of your time,
but I think we do want togive our listeners a chance to if you
just want to briefly talk about someof your books, maybe something new on
the horizon or end where we canpurchase those books and get more resources.
(58:15):
If they're available. I have writtentwo commentaries, one on Philippians and one
on Ephesians, and I have writtenMade for More The Dancing Father, I
choose to win and qualify for yourAnointing, and all of those books can
be purchased at the Word of Flame, Pentecostal's publisher nows Amazon, or they
(58:42):
can go directly to my website Briankinseydot com. And if there's a pastor
or a minister who's hearing this onthis broadcast, I also do personal leadership
coaching through my Refresh Ministry, whichcan be accessed through Brian Kensey. And
I'm presently working on a forty dayJourney Mercy Moments to get people into the
(59:09):
habit of meeting God every day bygiving them inspirational thoughts that they would spark
their thinking to journal and to write, and to get these thoughts down in
writing and written form, because ithelps you to remember if you write it,
(59:29):
and then it helps get in yourspirit when you speak it. Somebody
asks what's the best way to learnthe Bible? Teach a Bible study that
is the truth. Get you atwelve week, eight hundred and fifty two
point three week Bible study and gothrough the teacher's manual, and you'll learn
the Bible from Genesis to Revelation.Now, obviously there are deeper things and
(59:52):
a lot greater deeper subjects that youcan delve into as you study the Word,
but you cannot learn in the Bibleany better than just simply teaching search
for truth or exploring God's word.Both of them are great Bible studies,
absolutely so, absolutely so look forMy Mercy Moments. It'll be coming out
(01:00:14):
in about six months, six toeight months. Awesome, awesome, looking
forward to it. Well, Ihave to say that I have been challenged
and I've also enjoyed it. Thoughhope I can say that it's been enjoyable
and I've been challenged, and Iagree with you. So I know that,
especially the journaling, I don't journal, I'll admit it. I want
(01:00:37):
to be the guy who journals everyday, but I'm not that guy yet,
So I'm working on it. Well, you know, the good thing
is is you don't have to doit every day, you know. I
try to get people just to getinto the habit once a week. Start
there, start once a week,because you've got to have some kind of
(01:00:57):
time frame or you'll never do it. True and say, well, once
a weekend, I'm going to dothis. On Tuesday, I'll have a
little time and I'm going to doit on Tuesday, and then you can
add to it. So I startthem out with one thing to do,
then we'll add to it. AndI'll always tell people pray ten minutes to
(01:01:19):
bread your Bible and pray for tenfifteen minutes. No more, because they're
not good. If it's too much, they'll quit and they'll get discouraged.
And I said, if you missa day, you just start back up
the next day and act like younever miss a day, and you just
keep doing it. Because it tookme almost two years to develop the habit
(01:01:43):
and it'll take you a long timeto do it. But you have to
start. You got to start somewhere, Start small, and then celebrate everything
you do. Don't say, wellI don't have a five, I've only
got one. Well, there's noreason to go around and be mess step
over that. Rejoice, yeah,rejoice absolutely, and what you have done
(01:02:07):
and what God has is doing inyour life celebrated. Awesome. I love
it, I love it. I'vereally enjoyed this. I am. I'm
excited hope that our listeners enjoyed asmuch as as we have. So thank
you so much, and you're morethan welcome. I've enjoyed it myself.
Anytime you want to come back onthe invitation is open, so you let
(01:02:30):
me know and we'll make it happen. All right, Maybe when the next
book comes out, we'll have youback. That sounds awesome, be looking
forward to it.
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