Erika Kirk Forgives Her Husband's Assassin

Join Jim and Greg for the Monday 3 Martini Lunch as they marvel at Erika Kirk’s powerful display of faith in forgiving her husband’s killer, blast British Prime Minister Keir Starmer for recognizing a Palestinian state, and dissect two alarming incidents of political violence where officials seem oddly confused about the motives.

First, they reflect on Sunday’s memorial service for Charlie Kirk and the emotional moment when his widow, Erika Kirk, publicly forgave the “young man” who murdered her husband earlier this month. Jim calls it “one of the most profoundly Christian moments” we’ve ever witnessed in public life.

Next, they slam Prime Minister Keir Starmer for effectively rewarding Hamas terrorism by formally recognizing a Palestinian state. Starmer insists this will remove Hamas from power, and reform the Palestinian Authority. Of course, he also blames Israel for the humanitarian problems in Gaza. Bottom line: he's not helping.

Finally, they examine two recent instances of possible political violence where authorities seem to be confused about motive when the facts aren't very fuzzy. They discuss the California man who fired shots at the ABC affiliate in Sacramento and the guy who opened fire at a New Hampshire country club. In the latter incident, the gunman reportedly yelled "Free Palestine" before opening fire, but officials say it's unlikely that's what caused him to shoot people. Really?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the three Martini Lunch.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Grab a stool next to Greg Corumbus of Radio America
and Jim Garritty of National Review.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Free Martini's coming up.

Speaker 3 (00:12):
Hey, really, glad you're with us for the Monday edition
of the three mar teeny Lunch. We hope you had
a terrific weekend, and we hope you're glad to be
because we've got a lot to talk about today. Big
news in terms of potentially it certainly seems like it
politically motivated violence again, two different instances, both aiming in
the same direction, no pun intended. We've also got Keir Starmer,

(00:35):
as he foreshadowed, declaring a Palestinian state, formerly recognizing one anyway,
and we're headed to the UN General Assembly opening this week,
so there's some shenanigans going on there. But we start
Jim with yesterday's memorial service for Charlie Kirk at the
home of the Arizona Cardinals lasted about five hours, lots

(00:56):
of different speakers, lots of different musical acts. As Jdvan
said in his comments, a lot of people expected a funeral.
It kind of turned into a revival. It was fascinating
to watch so many people talk openly about their faith
as a Christian who wants to make sure people get
the gospel right. Was a little bit I'm not sure
you got it there a couple of times. But Charlie

(01:17):
Kirk's mentor, Frank Turk, did a great job on that
saying that you know, it's not that Charlie Kirk did
that he's in heaven. It's because he trusted in the
sacrifice that Jesus made, So that could not have been
clear for all the cabinet members and Vice president and
President Trump that spoke. I think the thing everybody's talking
about today are the comments of Erica Kirk, Charlie's widow

(01:37):
and now the new head of Turning Point USA. Are
so many parts of that eulogy that that really struck
a court with a lot of people, But I think
her forgiveness of the killer is the thing that's just
got everybody amazed today. Two quick clips here from that.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
That young man, that young man on the cross, our
Savior said, Father, forgive.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
Them for they not know what they do. That man,
that young man, I forgive him. I forgive him because
it was what Christ did.

Speaker 4 (02:28):
And is what Charlie would do.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
The answer to hate is not hate. The answer we
know from the Gospel is love and always love, love
for our enemies, and love for those who persecute us.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
Jim so powerful, so strong. I remember us marveling at
the family members of the folks from the church and
Charleston that was shot up by the racist kid about
a decade ago. Just watching people be able to do that,
hanging on to the depths of their faith, It's amazing.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
Yeah, regular listeners know that religious talk in this podcast.
It makes cameo appearances. It's a cherry on top. We
don't usually get deep into it. There's no way to
talk about what Erica Kirk said and did without diving
into that. Last weekend, I drove up to visit my
older child in college. Great to see him again, you know,

(03:23):
missing him a great deal. Coming back and hearing a
bit about this, seeing the coverage of the memorial service,
and the Post says can you write something about this?
And I'm like, what I'm going And then then I
saw what she'd said and I was like, Okay, well
there's a great question. Could you do that? And I'll
be straightforward, I don't know if I could. If someone
killed one of my loved ones. That's a really extremely

(03:47):
difficult thing to do, even for people who like to
think of themselves as faithful Christians. You mentioned the example
of the Charleston Church victim family members. John Paul the
scond forgave his assassin it would be a sassin. His
attempted to sassin a couple of years ago, just kind
of the sense like, well, well, he's the pope. He
kind of has to write like this. If Eric Kirk

(04:07):
had gone up there and not said that and said
that I can't forgive him, no one would have blamed her,
no one would have thought any less of for everybody,
you know, and the President himself said I do not
think what I do not wish well upon my enemies.
And as as bad as that is, as wrong as
that is, I also feel like it's very on brand
for Trump, and that's it's very human of Trump, right.
That's what christ calls us to rise above. That's really hard.

(04:31):
I don't understand the people who look at Christianity and
see it as an easy religion. What Jesus calls on
us to do is very often to against our our
basic nature, and we're supposed to rise above it. Lincoln
said the better angels of our nature. Erica Kirk did that,
and I just kind of in awe. And I also
would note, you know, they panned to the audience. Everyone applauds, stands,

(04:55):
and there's weeping, and I think there's a perception of
Charles Kirk fans, Republicans, maga. However you want to characterize
that crowd there, that they're angry, that they're hateful, that
they're you know, I don't think it was guaranteed that
everyone was going to feel. Yes, Erica Kirk, you know,

(05:16):
we support you, God bless you. You know it is
correct to forgive them. I think there were probably a
lot of people who would have an extremely hard time
with that. That was one of the most profoundly Christian
moments I've seen in public life, maybe in my lifetime.
It just it just is, that's so hard to do,
and it's so against our instincts, it's so against the

(05:36):
way we think, how do you forgive somebody like that?
She found the strength to do it, and so I
I you know, look, it is today is September twenty second.
We are about, you know, three quarters the way through
the year. It's been a busy year. All kinds of
crazy stuff has happened. Hey, hey, remember the already of
nuclear program reg like was it like ten years ago? Right?

Speaker 2 (05:56):
You know?

Speaker 4 (05:57):
Charlie Kirk's assassination I think is going to be one
of the things we remember from the year twenty twenty five,
and I think it's going to have a profound effect
for a long time to come, hopefully for the better. Certainly,
yesterday's celebration of his life, I think that's a demonstration
of it. There may also be some negative ramifications of
all that, which we'll talk a little bit later about
in this podcast. But I just ever took my breath away,

(06:18):
and I kind of put that question out to when
the Post asked me, you know, what do you want
write about it? I was like, well, could you bring
yourself and do what Erica Kirk just did. A lot
of us hope were never tested that way. But again,
I think, you know, just a wonderful demonstration just when
you think the political environment is so angry and so
nasty and so hostile and bitter, human beings can surprise you. So,

(06:40):
you know, God bless you Erica Kirk. God blessed the
entire Kirk family and everybody knew him and who's mourning
right now. But, like I said, one of the most
profoundly Christian moments in our life, in our public life,
in a very long time.

Speaker 3 (06:51):
Now, you're definitely right about that, and you're also right
that you never really know how you're going to react
until you're in that moment, and hopefully none of us
ever are. But like the scripture says, you know, we've
been forgiven much through the sacrifice of Christ and his
payment on the cross, and that's his charge to us,
is to pricove others. It's right there in the Lord's prayer.
Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass

(07:11):
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off your first order. All right, Jim, let's move to
our bad martini now and for that, we had to

(08:42):
cure Starmer, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom not
impressive as the leader there since July of lash year.
A lot of different problems there, but one of the
things he promised to do is actually following through on
and that's not a good thing. Back in July he
announced that he was planning to formally recognize a Palestinian state,

(09:04):
and over the weekend he did just that. In advance
of this week's opening of the UN General Assembly. He
basically said, and it's like six minutes long, so I'll
sum it up. He says, Hamas is completely unacceptable. The
terrorist attacks is unacceptable. They're keeping of the hostages is unacceptable.
So of course we need a Doo state solution to
create a Palestinian state where Hamas is not in charge.
Good luck with that. They also say that they're going

(09:26):
to reform the Palestinian authority, whatever that means. And of
course they blame Israel for the food issues, the human
humanitarian crisis supposedly in Gaza. A lot of that, of
course is Hamas's fault as well Israel's actually providing the food,
but that's a debate for another time. Here's Keir Starmer, though, saying,
despite what everybody's seeing, whatever is happening, no hostage is released.

(09:47):
We're going straightforward with this recognition.

Speaker 5 (09:49):
As part of this effort, I set out in July
the terms upon which we would act, in line with
our manifesto to recognize Palestinian statehood. That moment has now arrived,
so today, to revive the hope of peace and a

(10:13):
two state solution, I state clearly, as Prime Minister of
this great country, that the United Kingdom formally recognizes the
State of Palestine.

Speaker 3 (10:28):
The cherry on top of this, Jim is that at
the UN this week, the UN Security Council has apparently
scheduled a critical meeting on the Gaza war for Tuesday afternoon,
which is Roshishana. The move is supposedly meant to sideline
Israeli officials who will be observing the holiday. This is
from Adam Credo over at the Free Beacon. So the
UN as always playing it super fair on these issues

(10:51):
that relate to the Middle East. So what do you
make a Starmer. Mccrown's pretty much in the same boat.
And then the timing of a meeting here.

Speaker 4 (10:58):
Yeah, first of all, Greg, it can't help, but suspect
that a key driving force behind this decision is the
notion of the demographics of the United Kingdom and other
major countries in Europe. There is a very high increase
in the Muslim population and the growth of the Jewish
population is small to nil. And of course, you know Europe,

(11:19):
Europe has fewer Jews than it used to greg there
was this historical event that kind of had a big
factor in that, and that's why they went to places
like Israel and why they went to places like the
United States and things like that. Secondly, even if you don't,
you have to be a you know, enthusiastic cheerleader of
every decision being made by Israel right now to question

(11:39):
the logic of this move. You could see the argument
of this being a carrot dangled in front of Hamas saying, well,
if you release the hostages, maybe we will do this,
and maybe we will start to the world will look
at the Palestinians with more sympathy and more understanding and
more believing that you should be recognized as a state.
But if you don't release the hostages, well then know

(12:00):
we don't. It's not been that. In fact, it's been
the opposite. I had, you know, the president had said
that Hamas had its last chance, and then Israel struck Doha,
so there was an indication that there was finally some
consequences there, but that has not led to the release
of the hostages. So the question is, if you've constantly
put this, you know as in front of them, and

(12:20):
Hamas has not done what you wanted, why are you
just giving it to them? How does this improve? What
message does this sent to Hamas? The message to Hamas
is you don't have to release the hostages. We will
give you things you want, We will treat you better.
The more obstinate you are, the more concessions we will
make in hopes of this. It's very hard to believe
that the United Kingdom or other European countries really prioritize

(12:43):
the release of the hostages if they're willing to make
a move like this right now, so frustrating, predictable. You know,
it was predicted, it was announced, they went through with this.
I'd just love to see all right, Kiers Starmer, Now,
what how do you get Hamas to do? And I
guess the other thing is that maybe that in the end,
releasing the hostages just isn't that important to them that
it keeps staying on the right side of Muslim communities

(13:08):
that absolutely loathe Israel is their top priority right now,
and I think that's a bad sign for the UK,
bad sign for the rest of Europe, and really the
bad sign for the rest of the world, particularly a
bad sign not just for Israel. But I think all
of the world's Jews.

Speaker 3 (13:20):
Kowtowing on this issue is not going to do Keir
Starmer or the UK any good domestically in the long term,
I don't think. But just the way that everything's setting
up at the UN this week is also kind of
maddening because, like Marco Ribio has said and other people
have said, all you're doing is rewarding what Hamas did
nearly two years ago in October of twenty twenty three,
because if you give a Palestinian state well, terrorism works,

(13:43):
and demonizing Israel and a number of things is apparently
working as well. So that's not encouraging. But hopefully I
assume the United States is going to veto this idea
in the US Security Council and this will end up
being nothing but hot air from Macrone and Starmer and
everything else. So that's my plan anyway. Well, Jim, you'd

(14:07):
have to scour pretty hard to find it here in
our final martini if you look through the news this weekend.
But there was more what seems to be political violence,
two instances actually that you cover very very well in
the Morning Joel today. One was a guy who seems
to have shot up the ABC affiliate in Sacramento, California,
because he's upset that ABC suspended Jimmy Kimmel. And then

(14:27):
the other one was on the other end of the
country in Nashua, New Hampshire, where a guy shot up
a country club there, killing one person, wounding two. But
the media reporting on this is also part of the
story there. Your colleague Charlie Kirk points out that.

Speaker 4 (14:43):
The nbaste Charlie Sorry, Charles CW Cork, Sorry Charlie Cook, Greg,
I've been making that mistake all week long. So every
time I say Charlie Kirk, I mean Cook, I feel
like I've resurrected that the Charlie I work with. So yes,
don't worry, I've been there, done that plenty of times.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
Yes, it's Charlie Cook, your colleague rights. This story consists
of twenty paragraphs, and at no point in any of
them does NBC relate that the shooter shouted free Palestine
before he opened fire. To find that out, I had
to read the British left wing paper The Guardian now
in response to that, and I'm guessing other people complaining
as well. NBC did finally add it to the story,

(15:20):
but now, Jim, like you said, last week, is kind
of confusing when they report on this. So NBC. Two
other adults were shot and wounded, according to the state
attorney general, who is a Republican, adding that additional charges
were likely, including for the additional victims. Four others suffered
injuries that weren't gunshots for Mela. John Formela is the
name of the attorney general. Also addressed reports that the

(15:42):
shooter said the words free Palestine during the attack, noting
that he made quote a number of statements at the time.
There's no indication as of yet that this was a
hate motivated crime. Quote. In fact, I would say at
this point the evidence leads us to believe that it
is more likely that he was simply trying to make
a number of statements to create chaos in the moment.

(16:03):
I guess we'll find out as the investigation goes. Jim.
But like you said last week, if it's uh, you know,
the perpetrator seems to be from the right, the details
are crystal clear. If it's from most likely the left,
it's it's hard.

Speaker 4 (16:15):
To say, you know, too early to call it a
hate crime. I don't think it was envy. That stake
looks terrific, you know, I think I think I think
a lot of it. You know, you're shooting people. I
think you're feeling kind of hateful. That's just my my
general I'm not a better health therapist. I can't, you know,
make those kinds of assessments here. So turning our attention
to Sacramento. First of so, one thirty pm Friday, Sacramento

(16:37):
Police Department gets a call shots fired in the vicinity
of the ABC affiliate there. They three shots through the window.
Looks like it's one thirty pm. So let's gogto this
is an hour you'd expect people to be in the
building and coming in and out and doing things like that. Now,
you know, to give credit to the Sacramento PD. Within
a few hours they think they've got their man. The

(16:58):
guy's name was sixty four sixty four year old Annabelle
Hernandez Santana didn't take long people to find his social
media feed and greg he is an active and vocal
supporter of gun control. Of course, pause for ironing, Right,
So he gets charged with assault with a deadly weapon,
shooting into an occupied building, and negligent discharge of a firearm.
The first two are felonies. The second one can be

(17:19):
a misdemeanor or a felony. I'm not a lawyer, but
it certainly sounds like this is a felony situation. And they're, oh,
remember California's got the three strikes law, right, So there's
three felonies in this one act one act here. He's
back on the street in a few hours because he
posted bail. Now, I keep hearing California lawmakers talking about
how seriously they take gun violence and how they're very

(17:39):
strong supporters of gun control. Look up all the things
you have to do to be a legal firearms owner
in the state of California. Right, this guy shoots into
a building or allegedly wink wink, and you know, he
goes out and he's out on the streets. Now, the
good news is he's not out on the streets right now,
because the Federal Bureau of Investigation looks this and says, oh,

(18:01):
this is an attack on a FCC license broadcaster. Therefore
we have jurisdiction. Therefore we can arrest him. And they,
you know, they arrested him. They book them violation of
forty seven USC. Three three three malicious interference with the
communication of a station licensed or authorized by the US government. See,
pretty likely they're looking, what can we charge this guy
with him? What can we do to take him off

(18:21):
the street. But now he's off the streets. The gunment or,
the alleged gunman's attorney says that he was targeted because
he's quote an educated liberal unquote let's just say, I
have my doubts about the characters, but he's a defense attorney.
What do you expect to say? But I'm left wondering, like,
you know, you have a guy who shot three times
into an occupied office building. Thank god no one was hurt,

(18:42):
but it's not like, you know, we know he was
aiming not to hit people or something like that, and
within less than a day he's back out in the streets.
I assume they seize his firearm. There's nothing about that
in any of the reports about this. But you know,
he could go back with a knife, he could go
back with a baseball bat, he could try to run
somebody down with his car. Like you're you're really also
you're convinced he's not a flight risk. I know he's
sixty four years old, like you know. By the way,

(19:04):
usually in felony cases, it takes about a year for
the case to go to trial in Sacramento. So we're
just gonna let this guy walk the street. So thank
you FBI for taking steps to get this guy off
the street. I don't know if this is a matter
of political bias or it's just simply now this is
how the system works out there. Are in California. You
could fire some guns into a build. You could fire
your gun into a building, and you know, if you've

(19:26):
got enough bail money, you can, you know, walk out
on the street and they'll take care of it, and
you know they'll just trust you and not them at
more crimes for the next year or two until you
have your trial. I decided and light of this because
it reminded me of Lee Zelden situation where a guy
tried to stab him at a rally when he's running
for governor in twenty twenty two, he too was released
within it, released in his own recognizance a few hours later.
You try to stab somebody, that feels like overnight in jail.

(19:49):
Seem like that really setting the bar too high. But
he did eventually get you know, convicted, Greg And guess
what a sentence was because you read the jolt so
you know, But how much three years is probation?

Speaker 1 (20:00):
Wow?

Speaker 4 (20:01):
Probation not even time in prison. Now Lee Zelden, who's
now the EPA administrator, and seems we're doing a great job. Like,
how'd you like somebody tries to stab you and the
judge says, well, that's very serious. In fact, you tried
to he was a member of Congress. You try to
kill the guy, So you know, probation what you know.
By the way, somebody pointed out at the time, Kathy

(20:23):
Hackel was effectively running the laws of bail. It was like,
wasn't you know Zelden's rival was in charge of the
bail laws, and was you know, putting his attacker back
on the street so quickly over in New Hampshire. Look,
it's possible this guy is a garden variety not he
used to work at the country club. Your first instantes, Oh, okay,

(20:43):
this is a disgruntled former worker, you know, returns for
vengeance or something like that. But I also is weird
that they're the attorney general who, as you mentioned, John
Famela's a Republican, says we don't have any evidence this
time that mister Nadeaux was motivated by hate based motive.
I would say that the evidence leads us to believe
this was more likely. Mister no is simply trying to

(21:04):
make a number of statements to create chaos in the moment. Greg,
I kind of think the gunfire would have created chaos
in the moment. I don't think you need to say
free Palestine? Or is this really my position? Do I
believe in a two state solution? Do I? Am I
critical of Israel? Or or am I just a very
clever Zionist and I'm trying to put bad you know,
like I I don't get why the Attorney general is

(21:27):
so adam And maybe he was shouting other nonsense. Maybe
you know, he was shouting up. I don't know. I
wasn't there. This will all be sorted out in court.
But he the reason I am you know, my eyebrows
are raised at this. The Pols night club shooting where
for weeks afterwards, the nine to one one transcript in
which the gunman said, I am doing this on behalf

(21:48):
of ISIS, pledging his allegiance to the head of ISIS
and the idea. He could not have been any clearer
or more explicit unless he put up a banner that said,
I am shooting these people, you know, in the name
of ISIS. Greg I looked it up. As recently as
twenty twenty three, the Human Rights Campaign was saying that
this was a case of, you know, violence targeting the

(22:08):
gay community. Now prosecutors admitted there was no evidence that
he knew it was a gay club. He just knew
it was a nightclub. Right, Like if you want to
say the shooter hated gay people and gay, gay and
lesbian Americans, technically true, but he hated all Americans, so
like this was not a matter, you know, like this
was his issues. He hated America, he hated non Muslims,
he hated people who were not aligned with the ISIS ideology.

(22:32):
So when authorities they're clearly comfortable with some motivations and
they're clearly uncomfortable with some other motivations. It feels weird
for the state Attorney General to come out and say, look,
we know he was shouting these things as he was
shooting people, but don't let that create your impression of
what his motivation was. Really. I kind of feel like

(22:54):
it might at least be a factor in it somewhere.
Maybe Yeah, maybe he was also mad at for getting
fired or whatever like that. But does seem like if
you're shouting free Palestine while you're shooting people, that the
reason you're shooting people would have something to do with
the Middle East conflict. I just I just put that
out there, so it's I'd look and again, maybe he

(23:14):
has access to other information here. Again, this guy's probably
cuckoo for crocopops. But two cases of violence in which
the authority's response seems a little subpar, a little less
than we'd like to see it at a time like this.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
Yeah, especially at a time like this, you'd think they'd
be getting more serious about cracking down on it and
taking it seriously. So we'll see where the cases go
from here. Since the perpetrators don't seem to be on
the right, I'm guessing most of the media will memory
hole this, but somebody'll cover.

Speaker 4 (23:43):
It, hopefully. Jim.

Speaker 3 (23:45):
Quite a weekend. Your Jets were down I think seventeen,
that came back to almost.

Speaker 4 (23:51):
Got out of this podcast without talking about the jill Leader.

Speaker 3 (23:53):
Yes by one. Yeah, well real quick. The Bears got there,
went over the Cowboys first win in the year. We'll
see if that changes anything long term. But you got
ahead with a minute and change to go, and then
uh losing at the very last player of the game.
So you're getting closer. You know.

Speaker 4 (24:07):
I am married to an extraordinary woman. So we're driving
back from from New England to after visiting my older one,
and my extraordinary wife manages to get me the ability
to watch the game through the Fox Sports app on
my phone as we're driving back and she's driving don't worry,
I'm not watching the game, you know, and veering all
around the road depending on how the Jets are doing

(24:28):
or something like that. And there was a part of
me it's like, oh, I wish she had because it
was a terrible start, the down twenty three to six
in the third quarter, somehow managed to come back, managed
to get ahead just by, you know, by one point
on an extraordinary play, and of course then they managed
to not be able to stop Baker Mayfield, who turned
into Joe Montana overnight. I always remember him being kind

(24:50):
of flop with the Browns, who clearly is enjoying a
fantastic career rejuvenation down there in Tampa. And I think
for like the third straight week, Tampa Bay Buccaneers managed
to win in the final minutes. So the one kudos
to them. Also, what's the same the Chicago Bears won?
Is that allowed?

Speaker 5 (25:06):
Is it?

Speaker 3 (25:07):
I mean they every week they've scored a touchdown on
their first drive the first two weeks. That was kind
of it. Uh. Then uh, they played the Cowboys, who
in their defenses is not that good, which is especially
fun since their coordinator is the Bear's former head coach,
Matt Eberfless. So Uh that one, that one definitely felt good.
Get a win under the belt. Still a tough division.

(25:28):
I'm not expecting a massive turnaround, but hey, the more
success you get, the more success maybe you can expect.
But we'll find out next week.

Speaker 4 (25:36):
I was gonna say, Cowboy haters across the country are
thrilled with the Bears, so you know they thank you
the Cowboys obviously been a little with their salary cap.
What's the word I'm looking for, Parsonmony, It's not the
defense they used to have. So good for the Bears.
And hey, everybody you know, I hope you had a
good weekend of football since I didn't.

Speaker 3 (25:58):
Jim Garretty, National Review I Greg Corumbus of Radio America.
Thanks so much for being with us today. Please be
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Thanks also for your five star ratings and your kind reviews.
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(26:19):
have a terrific Monday. Join us again Tuesday for the
next Three Martini Lunch