November 4, 2025 • 33 mins
Join Jim and Greg for the Tuesday edition of the 3 Martini Lunch as they reflect on the legacy of the late former Vice President Dick Cheney, slam former Attorney General Eric Holder for trying to undermine the Supreme Court, and highlight more deranged behavior from the left, this time targeting Montana Sen. Tim Sheehy.
First, they examine the long and influential career of Dick Cheney, from his early days in the Ford administration to serving as Defense Secretary during the Gulf War and later as one of the most consequential vice presidents in U.S. history. There will be considerable debate on the right over his legacy in the Iraq War and his endorsement of Kamala Harris in 2024. Jim also tells us about a special dinner he had with the Cheneys shortly after the 2004 election.
Next, they slam former Attorney General Eric Holder for his latest comments clearly aimed at delegitimizing the U.S. Supreme Court, all because he's frustrated by the right-leaning decisions coming from the court. Holder is also among the people urging Democrats to gerrymander their congressional even more heading into the 2026 midterms
Finally, they recoil at the vile voicemail left for Sen. Sheehy by a woman who is running for local office in Montana. In the message, she hopes Sheehy contracts pancreatic cancer and dies quickly because he supported the GOP's One Big Beautiful Bill. Jim says after Charlie Kirk's murder, the Jay Jones scandal, and now this, there are a lot of people becoming detached from reality over politics.
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First, they examine the long and influential career of Dick Cheney, from his early days in the Ford administration to serving as Defense Secretary during the Gulf War and later as one of the most consequential vice presidents in U.S. history. There will be considerable debate on the right over his legacy in the Iraq War and his endorsement of Kamala Harris in 2024. Jim also tells us about a special dinner he had with the Cheneys shortly after the 2004 election.
Next, they slam former Attorney General Eric Holder for his latest comments clearly aimed at delegitimizing the U.S. Supreme Court, all because he's frustrated by the right-leaning decisions coming from the court. Holder is also among the people urging Democrats to gerrymander their congressional even more heading into the 2026 midterms
Finally, they recoil at the vile voicemail left for Sen. Sheehy by a woman who is running for local office in Montana. In the message, she hopes Sheehy contracts pancreatic cancer and dies quickly because he supported the GOP's One Big Beautiful Bill. Jim says after Charlie Kirk's murder, the Jay Jones scandal, and now this, there are a lot of people becoming detached from reality over politics.
Please visit our great sponsors:
Give your liver the support it deserves with Dose Daily. Save 35% on your first month when you subscribe at https://DoseDaily.co/3ML or enter code 3ML at checkout.
Get 20% off your first purchase of classic menswear. Visit https://MizzenAndMain.com with promo code 3ML20—shop online or visit a Mizzen and Main store in select states.
Sponsored by Quo, formerly known as Open Phone: Get started free and save 20% on your first 6 months and keep your existing numbers at no extra charge—no missed calls, no missed customers. Visit https://Quo.com/3ML
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Three Martini Lunch.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Grab a stool next to Greg Corumbus of Radio America
and Jim Garrity of National Review.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Free Martini's coming up.
Speaker 4 (00:13):
Very glad you're with us for the Tuesday, the election
day edition of the Three Martini Lunch. We've got so
much to get to today. We're going to be talking
about the unhinged leftists that wished death noticing a pattern
against Montana Senator Tim Sheehey. And this person's not just
a constituent, she's actually running for local office out in Montana.
(00:33):
We'll also be taking a look at the insane Democratic
efforts to further blue the congressional map, even in states
where it's all already really really blue, and the overall
efforts by former Attorney General Eric Holder to jerry mander
the map. And in a moment, we'll be talking about
the passing of former Vice President Dick Cheney at the
(00:55):
age of eighty four, which we all learned this morning.
And so, Jim, I don't know if you've already voted.
I think we're I think we still got some races
where we can be cautiously optimistic, But I don't know
that there's any major races that we feel we've got
in the bank.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Today I'm holding up my eye voted sticker.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I really appreciate the fact that they now give them
to you, because I think it was two thousand and four, which,
as listeners will soon know, was one of my all
time favorite election days. Somebody put one on my leather jacket,
and then as I peeled it off, part of the
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like you could say, oh, it's a happy memento of
the two thousand and four election day. But yeah, this
is why you hand people stickers. You don't stick them
(01:31):
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All right, Jim, the big political news this morning is
the announcement from the Cheney family that former Vice President
Dick Cheney has died at the age of eighty four.
If you know about his medical history, it should come
as little surprised that it was cardiac related as well
(03:10):
as pneumonia. Quite a life, of course. Came to Washington
in the late sixties to work for Don Rumsfeld, who
was running an office for President Nixon in the early
part of the Nixon administration. Within just a few years,
he was deputy chief of staff underneath Don Rumsfeld for
President Gerald Ford. Rumsfeld left to be a Defense secretary
for Ford, and Cheney got bumped up to be one
of the youngest chiefs of staff we've ever seen. And
(03:33):
then after Ford lost nineteen seventy eight, Cheney runs to
be the congressman from Wyoming, wins easily keeps winning all
the way through nineteen eighty eight. Then, due to John
Towers nomination being rejected for Defense Secretary, George H. W.
Bush nominates Cheney. Cheney becomes Defense Secretary for those four years,
becomes very well known, of course for the golf War.
(03:53):
Then he goes into private sector. Don't know if you've
ever heard that he worked for a company called Halliburton
that never came up during his political career, toyed with
the ninety six presidential race, ultimately didn't run. Also wasn't
really toying with the two thousand campaign, but he did
agree to go search for a running mate for George W. Bush,
and George W. Bush decided he wanted Cheney, and so
they won twice. And obviously there's going to be a
(04:16):
lot of talk about the Iraq War and the War
on terrorism. Cheney, of course, basically running things for a
while on nine to eleven from the underground bunker at
the White House. Well Bush was not on site, and
so decisions like grounding all the planes and shooting down
any others that might come along were left to him.
But a couple of moments here just from the debate
stage that we're going to play here real quick, and
(04:36):
I know Jim has plenty to say as well, Dick Cheney,
Joe Lieberman from the two thousand debate.
Speaker 5 (04:43):
I think if you asked most people in America today
that famous question that Ronald Reagan asked, are you better
off today than you were eight years ago? Most people
would say yes. And I'm pleased to say, Seed, Dick
from the newspapers that you're better off than you were
eight years ago.
Speaker 6 (04:58):
To most of it. And I can tell you, Joe
that the government had absolutely nothing to do with interest.
Speaker 5 (05:07):
I can see my wife and I think she's thinking, Joe,
wish you would go out into the private sector.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Well, I'm going to try to help you do that, Joe.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Great line. They're pretty cordial. Vice presidential mate in two
thousand not so much. In two thousand and four, here's
Dick Cheney talking about John Edwards performance on Capitol Hill.
Speaker 6 (05:24):
And Senator Frankly, you have a record in the Senate
that's not very distinguished. You've missed thirty three out of
thirty six meetings in the ad Disiary Committee, almost seventy
percent of the meetings of the Intelligence Committee. You've missed
a lot of key votes on tax policy, on energy,
on Medicare reform. Your hometown newspaper has taken a calling
you Senator gone. You've got one of the worst attendance
(05:45):
records in the United States Senate. Now, in my capacity's
vice President, i am the president of Senate, the presiding officer.
I'm up in the Senate most tuesdays when they're in session.
The first time I ever met you was when you
walked on the stage.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Dick Cheney might be the only politician who goes in
for the jugular on an attack line as blood pressure
actually drops it. Certainly did you go up anywhere along
the way. There's going to be a lot of talk
about Cheney, of course, endorsing Kamala Harris, which is a
bridge too far for me, certainly with some of the
never Trump folks. But he wasn't always never Trump, as
you point out in the Jolt today. So I think
(06:21):
I've said enough at this point. Jim. I know you
wrote about him today, but there's so much to think
about when you think about the legacy of Dick Cheney.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Sure well, first of all, it's always good to hear
from the late Senator Lieberman, the former Three Martini podcast
guest Joe Lieberman. Always it was a good conversation a
few years ago. Greg, I was thinking about this. I
think you can make an argument certainly within our lifetimes
and maybe in the last you know, maybe one hundred years,
but the most influence, certainly in the last fifty years.
(06:48):
I'm trying to think of other Americans who were not
president who had greater influence over policy. And maybe you
could say Ted Kennedy, maybe you could say Henry Kissinger,
but I think he's up there. And you mentioned not
just as vice president but a secretary of Defense.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
I tried to walk through kind of thinking about his
relationship with the MAGA movement, and it's very Back in
twenty sixteen, he was the only former president or vice
president who endorsed Donald Trump to be president. H. W. Bush,
who was alive at the time, and George W.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Bush did not.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Now, some might have thought that was trying to help
his daughter Liz Cheney, but nonetheless that was a you know,
like he was on board with that. Even helped get
Rex Tillerson confirmed as Secretary of State. There was a
decent amount of skepticism by Republican senators, including from by
the way, looking back some irony Marco Rubia and who
is now serving as a US Secretary of State. Cheney
(07:42):
called him up and said, don't worry. Tellison's a good guy.
You can trust him. He's going to do you know. Now,
Trump's relationship with Tillerson did not go great as the
presidency went on, but it's just an observation that Chaney was,
if not MAGA friendly, MAGA allied, willing to work with
MAGA at various points. Was January sixth, Liz Cheney's criticism
of Trump became much louder Stauncher Harsher. You know, it
(08:08):
became one of her central themes, and the people of
Wyoming chose not to do that, to go down that path.
Trump very much backed Hagman to get rid of, to
remove her from from that primary, and Cheney endorsed Kamala Harris.
And I think for a whole bunch of you know,
as a as a never Trump conservative.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
That was a bridge too far. I'm not you know,
I was not on board with that.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
But then again, if you know, Trump had knocked out
one of my kids from Congress, maybe I'd feel the
same way too. But just look at so you know,
Cheney was always one of my favorites, and I guess
I can now reveal it's been a big year for
me and beloved elderly conservatives passing away, freeing me to
talk about things that were off the record. So you
mentioned you showed some of that audio and video from
the debate with John Edwards way back when when I
(08:54):
was writing the carry spot. Dick Cheney's daughter Mary was
brought up in that debate by John Edwards several times
the context of this discussion about gay marriage, and the
Cheney family basically thought that that was dirty pool, that
was below the belt. And I, you know, wrote exactly
what you'd think I would write about that slime ridden
trial lawyer, ambulance chasing sob. And apparently the Cheney family
(09:17):
noticed that and appreciated that. So at some point, I
guess I can also reveal this. Hugh Hewitt says to me,
what's your mailing address? And I figure this is just
to you know, send me a letter bomb at some
point or something, and so I passed it along. A
couple of weeks after the election, I get a very
official looking envelope from the White.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
House, and I'll look at this and sing, what did
I do? I open up.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
It is an invitation and I have you over there
behind my wall, invitation to dinner with the Vice President
at a certain date to myself and Missus Garretty. Now,
at that time, Missus Garretty was doing some important things,
and I was like, did you save the country, did
you do a Jack Bauer thing? Or something like that,
why are we being invited to the vite? No, it
was apparently over They appreciated this. So I had a
(09:59):
bunch of other conservative bloggers. I'll let them decide if
they want to talk about this publicly. We have to
have dinner with the Vice president. And the Naval Observatory
is every bit as nice as you would think it
would be. Lynn Chaney was every bit the most gracious
hostess you could ever possibly want. And finally a little
bit that the Vice president comes in and you know,
like this, this is a big deal, and I'm like,
(10:19):
you know, kind of starting off, not starting out in
my career then, but I'm I haven't been in this
kind of situation before. At that point, Vice President Cheney
had just been over to foreshadowing irony Ukraine, and about
the point, you know, I talked to Victor Yushenko, who
you may recall was the leader who was poisoned, you know,
as everyone kind of suspects by Russia. His face was
kind of disfigured by that, and he talked a bit
(10:41):
about his meeting. This very front and center on Cheney's
mind at that time, being the wise, you know, sharp,
quick witted person that I am. I asked the Vice
President does he now have a phobia about soups? And
you know, the Vice President just kind of looked at
me and goes, huh and just kind of continues his story.
So just for thing about the great impression that I know. Unsurprisingly,
(11:02):
the Vice President the United States was much more interested
in my wife and than he was in me. I
cannot to grudge him that she has a fascinating life story.
But it was a night I'll never forget. Off the
record and off camera, he's the same guy you kind
of saw on camera that he was. You know, there
was this dry wit. He was very well versed in
all manner of Mostly. I remember talking a lot about
foreign policy. I remember there was a discussion about immigration
(11:24):
and the idea that I think somebody made a comment
was kind of a kind of in the tone of
these immigrants are coming here and ruining this country. Something was,
you know, kind of xenophobic. And I remember Lynn Cheney
saying something like, you know, that's just what they said
about the Irish, that's just what they said about the
just what they said.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
About the Greeks.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
You know that the idea that this this idea of
oh the immigrants are coming here and ruining the place.
It's a very old here, and all of these people
came and assimilated and became Americans. So anyway, it was
just a terrific evening. And I just always said, you know,
a soft spot in my heart for the guy who
allegedly had no heart. And you know when you said
about how he could, you know, it's kind of slipped
(12:00):
the knife rhetorically into Lieberman or Edwards without raising his
pulse rate. I agree with you, Greg, but I'll admit
it's very tough to measure. It's very tough to get
a good reading on Cheney's pulse rate un at.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
A given time.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
But anyway, like you know, I look at this guy,
and you want to talk about a guy who understood
that we lived in a dangerous world. The other thing
it was great irony is that you know how much
he's largely not liked by the MAGA crowd, in large
part because of the Liz Cheneese you know, stances over
the time. But really you think about it, the worldview,
there was a considerable amount of overlap in defense policy.
(12:33):
It was a considerable amount of overlap in energy policy.
I understand you know, you listen to Trump these days,
and he really wants to control the Panama Canal and
he's threatening military force. Son, who do you think invented that?
Speaker 6 (12:45):
This?
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Was Shaney as Secretary of Defense back in nineteen eighty
nine when we got rid of Manuel Noriega. You know,
Maduro's denouncing Trump. Maduro was denouncing Cheney back then. Like
there's a it's really fascinating to see the parallels between
what's allegedly this terror neo Khon warmongering Bush Cheney era
foreign policy and this allegedly isolationist, allegedly non interventionist Donald
(13:09):
Trump policies we see today. I think there's a little
more parallels on either side, would like to admit. So anyway,
rest in peace to Chaney. You will be missed, and
I don't think we will see his kind again, perhaps
in our lifetimes.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
A lot on the left, especially the lefty randos on
social media or you know, celebrating his death and calling
him a war criminal and all this stuff. And I
just would like to remind the left, you're the reason
ultimately that he was in that position, because if Dick
Cheney stayed in Congress and the Democrats hadn't tanked the
John Tower nomination, he probably is never Defense secretary. He's
(13:43):
probably and if he's not Defense secretary, he's probably never
on the Bush ticket. And so by spiking the Tower nomination,
you know, you kind of accelerated his rise towards the
vice presidency. Now, he might have ended up as Speaker
of the House.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
He was the.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Minority whip at that point, and I think he probably
would have been minority leader. And ultimately, if the ninety
four revolution still happens, he's probably Speaker of the House,
which would have been an interesting choice.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
To that.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
I will say, thank you, Democrats, thank you for making
those decisions. Thank you for tanking the John Tower nomination
at all the dominoes that followed from that decision in history.
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(15:24):
martini now. And for that we are focusing in a
couple of different ways. Number one Eric Holder, former attorney
general for Barack Obama, his wingman, as he publicly said it,
you know, back while he was attorney general and even since.
Eric Holder has been busy doing a lot of things
that don't make a lot of sense unless you're a leftist.
One is preventing states from cleaning up their voting roles.
(15:46):
He did that as attorney general. Now he's very much
in this push to get blue states to get their
congressional maps even bluer as a result of you know
what Texas is doing, but now California's doing it and
Virginia's doing it. And now we'll find out also that
Wes Moore, the governor of Maryland, wants Maryland to have
a bluer congressional map, which can't get much bluer. There's
(16:07):
only one Republican health seat right now. But Eric Holder
is also trying to delegitimize the Supreme Court. It's not
the first time he's done this, but he was on
a podcast, and basically, because the majority is not in
their favor anymore, the left just keeps demonizing the current system.
Speaker 7 (16:24):
I think, you know, the reality is it pains me
to say this. I think the Supreme Court is a
broken institution and it's something that has to be I
think a part of the national conversation in twenty six
and in twenty eight what are we going to do
about the Supreme Court? And I think that we have
to think about again talking about the acquisition and the
use of power. If there is a democratic trifecta in
(16:47):
twenty twenty eight, and I think the possibility of that
is pretty good. Supreme Court reform is something that has
to be considered.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
He sounds so even toned, Jim, But he's out there
basically trying to so division and undermine our institutions. But
I guess it's okay when Democrats do that. So what
do you make of Holder wielding this power kind of
behind the scenes, with the different organizations he's with, And
what do you make of the efforts to make blue
states even bluer?
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Well, first of all, Greg, I don't know about you,
but I was glad to hear it pains him so
much to say that that. I'm be curious. Is it
a sharp stabbing pain, is it a slow burning? Is
it indigestion? Has something to do with you?
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Ate last night? Eric Holder? Something like that.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
You know what he says, the Supreme Court is broken.
I'd really love for him to elaborate on how he
believes it's broken and not just keeps making decisions that
I don't want it to make right, you know, Oh,
it's broken because it keeps wanting to have a strict
constructionist view of the Constitution, or it keeps asking what
the founding fathers would have thought of this particular issue,
or something like that, We're gonna have to what are
(17:52):
we going to do about the Supreme Court? If a
presidential candidate on the Republican in side had said, you know,
I'm frustrated with Congress. Are you going to do about Congress?
What are we going to Anything that prevents Democrats from
getting what they want instantly becomes a problem. Now to
be like one of those old software salesmen, it's not
a bug, it's a feature.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Right.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
The whole point of this is that, like it's not
supposed to be easy to snap your fingers and make
something happening under ourselves. It's supposed to be hard to get,
you know, stuff passed. You have to build consensus first,
and that means convincing people who don't always agree with
you all the time. Right, if you actually wanted that
to happen, you know, this would be like the sixty
vote threshold for you know, that's not ungodly. Somebody's got
(18:34):
a fifty percent, but you know, so the lowest you
can have as the majority is fifty and having the
vice presidents, you know, breaking the tally. Republicans have fifty
three right now on the issue of continuing resolution.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
They got three more. They're fifty six, right, convincing four more.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
You and I and a whole bunch of other conservative
including a who bunch of Senate Republicans and John Thune
have said, we're not getting rid of the filibuster just
because we're frustrated here and now. Right, there's a kind
of this idea of at least most Republicans have this
sense the Constitution is built the way it is for
a reason, and it's hard to change, but not impossible
to change for a reason because you don't want the
Constitution changing, willy nilly. We also don't want Supreme Court
(19:13):
justices changing their interpretation of the Constitution. Willy nilly. We
want it to be really hard to change it. We
want precedent to matter. Now, every once in a while,
you get something that's like really really wrong, right Brown
versus Bard of education. Right, they oh segregations. Okay, that
was a really wrongly decided one. Right, So the Supreme
Court has to have the opportunity ability to say, well,
(19:33):
our predecessors were a bunch of morons. They completely botched
this one. This is you know, we need to have
that opportunity. But otherwise, when you don't get your way
at the Supreme Court, you don't instantly decide, oh, well,
you know it's time to pull the FDR card and
add more Supreme Court justices. And if you want to
enact term limits, you know, I don't like that idea,
but you're free to try and pass that as a
constitutional amendment.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Now that's a very big question of like, do you.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Grandfather in everybody who's there right now, and do you say,
starting down, oh, there's a twenty year term limit on
the Supreme Court or something like, we could have that discussion.
I I'm not a big fan of those ideas, but
if if you applied it to everybody, then maybe you'd have
an opening there. Eric Holder's arguments are entirely we are
not getting what we want. Therefore the Supreme Court is broken.
(20:16):
We are not getting what we want, therefore this constitution
is broken.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
No. No, that's not the way any.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Of this stuff is supposed to work. I've turned into
that the old lady in the commercial. That's not how
this works. That's not how any of this works when
you're putting faces on the wall for your Facebook, just
to have the thoughts on the on the Maryland, So
you mentioned there's one Republican district in Maryland, right, it's
seven to one that one of you get eight to zero.
Speaker 6 (20:40):
Right.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Of those other Democratic districts, there's one that's D plus
three that you could argue as a sewing district. Everything
else is D plus ten or higher. These are numbers
from the Cook Partisan Voting Index. They basically run their
numbers and say, okay, which way does what's the usual turnout?
What's the usual result in a district like this? Else
is D plus ten? Is including a D plus thirty seven?
(21:03):
How much more do Maryland Democrats want the map in
their favor?
Speaker 6 (21:06):
What?
Speaker 3 (21:07):
It's too competitive right now. And it's the same thing
going on in California as we're recording this. They're voting
out there extremely likely that the Gavin Newsom Gavin Mander
is going to pass out there knock out five existing
House Republicans. Now, I point out there are nine House
Republicans representing California right now. Some of them, like Darrell
Lisa's district is pretty darn red. And no matter how
(21:28):
you draw the lines, you're gonna have a big chunk
of Republicans there. But there are other ones like Young
kim Ken caliber, like these are swing districts. When you
hear people saying I want mid district, mid decade redistricting,
what they're talking about is eliminating swing districts.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Now.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Would I rather see a Republican House than a Democratic House, Absolutely,
But I like having swing districts.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
They're kind of useful.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
The fact that you know what every district is D
plus twenty or R plus twenty.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
You end up in a.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Situation where they're like, there's no there's no competition, that
doesn't really matter. Nobody bothers to show up because they
know the election's done before it got started. So I
think it's good to have swing districts. And every time
you hear this, whether it's Maryland, whether it's California, whether
it's Texas, you end up in a situation where we're
basically saying we want to have as few competitive house
districts as possible, And I don't think that's good for
the country.
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Speaker 4 (24:10):
All right, Jim, some true craziness, some true insanity in
our final Martini today. You know it's just a little
over a month ago that we learned about the twenty
twenty two text exchange where Jay Jones, the Democrat running
for Attorney General in Virginia, was talking to another colleague
on the Republican side and suggesting the murder of the
Speaker of the Virginia House, maybe the children, so his
(24:33):
wife would have to hold a dying child, and then
maybe maybe Todd Gilbert would have to change his mind
on policy.
Speaker 6 (24:38):
Well.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Out in Montana, Tim Sheehy is the brand new Republican
senator out there, beat on tester last November, and he
voted in support of the One Big Beautiful Bill earlier
this year. Democrats did not like that at all. One
constituent is named Haley McKnight, and now Haley McKnight, in
addition to being a constituent, is also running for the
(24:59):
Helena City Commission. And so this was her voicemail. This
was her voicemail think about actually leaving us on a
voicemail to Senator Shi apparently earlier this year.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Hi, this is Haley. I'm a constituent in Helena, Montana,
and I just wanted to let you know that you
are the most insufferable kind of calend and thief. You
just stripped away healthcare for seventeen million Americans, and I
hope you're really proud of that. I hope that one
day you get pancreatic cancer and it spreads throughout your
body so fast that they can't even treat you for it.
(25:31):
I hope that you die in the street like a dog.
I one day you're going to live to regret this.
I hope that your children never forgive you. I hope
that you are infertile. I hope you never managed to
ever again. You are the worst piece of I've ever
ever ever had the misfortune of looking at. And you
(25:56):
don't serve montanas. You serve your own private interests. All
that you have done since you've gotten into power is
for yourself. God forbid that you ever meet me on
the streets, because I will make you regret it. I
hope you die so Jim.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
I mean I almost cracked up at the where she
started off with kind of an enthusiastic high and then
within fifteen seconds was wishing death on Senator She But
you know, this is not an office as high as
Attorney General of Virginia. But it just kind of shows
the mentality where if somebody votes or champions a bill
that disagrees with where you are, then you all of
(26:35):
a sudden are wishing death upon people. We have a problem,
and it's not very isolated anymore, it seems.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
So this comes from my distinguished colleague, Audrey Fahlberg, who
seems to be generating at least one jaw dropping scoop
per week. Audrey, please stay with us forever because you're awesome.
But anyway, the detail in this story that really jumped
out at me is that she called up McKnight and said,
do you regret it that dancewers No. Pressed on whether
her voicemail went too far, McKnight said, no, I don't
(27:05):
think so. She said that she had friends who have
died from pancreatic cancer because they could not get the
help they need and the healthcare that they So that's
why she believes it is correct to wish cancer upon
Senator Shihi. Now, earlier this year, I had the opportunity
to interview Casey DeSantis up the Nation Review Ideas Summit.
Now is probably a lot of listeners know she was
diagnosed with breast cancer in October twenty twenty one and
(27:27):
thankfully declared cancer free in March twenty twenty two. And
I began my comments, or I asked the crowd, you
know how many of you have lost someone you love
to cancer? And just about every hand went up and
I said, how many of you have a loved one
who's fighting cancer? Then the rest of those hands went
up that this was you know, this is something I
think almost universal. Almost everybody has lost somebody they loved
(27:50):
because of cancer, and we've made great strides and treatment.
I know people who are fighting it right now and
some people who are doing great, and some people who
are having a tough times. And also the other thing
I would point out, like, look, we all get mad,
we all get angry, a lot of us. I certainly
have lost my temper plenty of times, and it's not great.
So you know that's to error is human. I think
(28:12):
it's the call back later when Audrey calls up and said,
do you regret anything you said? Do you think anything
went too far? It would have been really great for
this woman to say, yeah, I really shouldn't have wished
cancer upon him.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
I just want to see him defeated and out of all.
But yeah, like it's a free country.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
You can hate elected officials, but you really should not
walk around with this much hatred in your heart. And
I do feel like something has genuinely changed in our
culture to the point where certain people believe This is
a substitute for having a personality. This is how they
define themselves. It's not just like, oh, you think you
hate the other party that much, Look at me, Look
(28:48):
at how much I hate the people. This has just
become all consuming. And I don't think this is the
way you're supposed to live your life. I don't think
it's psychologically. I don't think it's religiously. I don't think
it's like I think, by a whole bunch of different measures.
This is the sign of someone who's like deeply, deeply trolled.
Then look, you know you and I make fun of
elected officials all the time on this podcast. I'm not
saying you have to love all of them. I'm not
saying you have to respect all of them, not saying
(29:09):
you have to sing their praises, but you probably should
not run around saying, oh, I hope they get cancer
and all of that. Bonus points to sheh for his
response where she said I hope you go infertile. He's like,
I got four kids, I'm doing okay, And I think
that's probably the best way to handle this. But is
a little frightening. I do think that, you know, after
the Charlie kirkshooting after the J Jones thing, like, you
(29:31):
just kind of see all of these people for whom
hatred of the opposition. And I know it exists on
both sides, but it certainly feels like we're seeing a
lot of this amongst Democrats. And I wonder if if
you're a Republican, you say, bo, I hope that Democrat dies.
I hope that democrat gets, you know, cancer. Maybe you
have some friend, some Christian, who was like, that's not
(29:52):
what christ wants you to do. That's not being a
good person. That's not being a good ambassador for your
worldview and the values that you claim a spouse. And
I don't know if these Democrats have people in their
lives who can tell them that, who would say, Dude,
this is not who you want to be. This is
not you know, you are not stopping hate in this
world by expressing it and professing it. And the other
(30:13):
second thing is like, remember not just that J Jones
texted all these terrible things, it's that when a Republican
lawmaker said, dude, you don't want to say this, he
called up and get argued and said, yes, the world
would be a better place for Republican lawmakers saw their
children's dying in their arms, like I don't. J Jones
probably belongs in the same asylum. Never mind, you know,
the state attorney General's office. And so like you worry
(30:35):
about people, you worry about whether these people are somethingy
going to pick up a gun or do something else
radical or something like that. She says, I hope you
don't run into me in the streets. Now you run
into an elected official in the street, you can give
a piece of your mind. Apparently, my uncle once ran
into Peter King in the dentist's office. When Peter King,
the former congressman, are all the he couldn't get away,
(30:57):
and so my uncle got to give Peter King a
piece of his mind. Whether it's nothing Peter King could do.
And the only Peter King could say, I rot ha ha,
I know all that kindness, like you know, like it
was a sweet moment in my uncle's life. Senators come
and go, you know, Governors come and go, Presidents come
and go. As we began this this program talking about
Dick Cheney, all this, everybody's gonna leave the stage at
(31:18):
some point. The question is who are you and who
do you want to be what kind of person do
you want to be? And I hope you're not the
kind of person who runs around leaving voice mess you
just hoping people get pantreatic cancer. But even worse with
that cheerful.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
HI, call me back.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Yeah, and all for making able bodied Medicaid recipients either
look for or find work. Doesn't like the most hateful
thing ever. But but the larger lesson is, first of all,
don't don't have those, you know, raging thoughts, but definitely
don't leave it on voicemail or write it in an email.
Calm down, and then call back if you really want
(31:51):
to talk to them, and without looking like an absolute
insane person. So anyway, the more you know, or.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
I was trying to reach my state senator, senator, she
was totally different. Sorry, lung one. Somebody once wrote in
response to a Washington Post column, I'd written that I
had been sucking up to Trump the entire time, and
I was, you know, and I know they say, don't
read the comment section, but I was like, how could
you affuming? And afuming my dear colleague Ramesh Maanura, who
himself is overcoming cancer and God bless him. Ramesh said
(32:20):
I think she thinks you're Mark Theeson, and all of
a sudden everything made sense. Oh you're thinking of a
completely different Washington Post columnist. Yes he's right of center.
Yes we agree on a bunch of stuff, but he's
been much more pro Trump than I have.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
And it was just this issue. So that's how you
get out of it.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
If you've really, you know, embarrassed yourself by saying something terrible. Oh,
I didn't mean you, Sorry, Rogumay, I'm a hateful maniac,
but not towards you.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
Jim Garretty National Review. I'm Greg Corumbus of Radio America.
Thanks so much for being with us today. Please be
sure to subscribe to the podcast if you don't already,
tell your friends about us as well. Thanks also for
your five star ratings and your kind reviews. Please keep
those coming. Get us on your home devices. All you
have to say is play Three Martini Lunch podcast. Follow
us both on X He's at Jim Garretty, I'm at
Greg Corumbus and coming soon Facebook and Instagram. Have a
(33:02):
great Tuesday, don't forget to vote and join us again
on Wednesday for the next Three Martini Lunch
Welcome to the Three Martini Lunch.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Grab a stool next to Greg Corumbus of Radio America
and Jim Garrity of National Review.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Free Martini's coming up.
Speaker 4 (00:13):
Very glad you're with us for the Tuesday, the election
day edition of the Three Martini Lunch. We've got so
much to get to today. We're going to be talking
about the unhinged leftists that wished death noticing a pattern
against Montana Senator Tim Sheehey. And this person's not just
a constituent, she's actually running for local office out in Montana.
(00:33):
We'll also be taking a look at the insane Democratic
efforts to further blue the congressional map, even in states
where it's all already really really blue, and the overall
efforts by former Attorney General Eric Holder to jerry mander
the map. And in a moment, we'll be talking about
the passing of former Vice President Dick Cheney at the
(00:55):
age of eighty four, which we all learned this morning.
And so, Jim, I don't know if you've already voted.
I think we're I think we still got some races
where we can be cautiously optimistic, But I don't know
that there's any major races that we feel we've got
in the bank.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Today I'm holding up my eye voted sticker.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I really appreciate the fact that they now give them
to you, because I think it was two thousand and four, which,
as listeners will soon know, was one of my all
time favorite election days. Somebody put one on my leather jacket,
and then as I peeled it off, part of the
leather jacket it was a little discoloration there, and you know,
like you could say, oh, it's a happy memento of
the two thousand and four election day. But yeah, this
is why you hand people stickers. You don't stick them
(01:31):
on people. Not that I'm still better about that.
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You know what, Greg, I'm going to come over to
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All right, Jim, the big political news this morning is
the announcement from the Cheney family that former Vice President
Dick Cheney has died at the age of eighty four.
If you know about his medical history, it should come
as little surprised that it was cardiac related as well
(03:10):
as pneumonia. Quite a life, of course. Came to Washington
in the late sixties to work for Don Rumsfeld, who
was running an office for President Nixon in the early
part of the Nixon administration. Within just a few years,
he was deputy chief of staff underneath Don Rumsfeld for
President Gerald Ford. Rumsfeld left to be a Defense secretary
for Ford, and Cheney got bumped up to be one
of the youngest chiefs of staff we've ever seen. And
(03:33):
then after Ford lost nineteen seventy eight, Cheney runs to
be the congressman from Wyoming, wins easily keeps winning all
the way through nineteen eighty eight. Then, due to John
Towers nomination being rejected for Defense Secretary, George H. W.
Bush nominates Cheney. Cheney becomes Defense Secretary for those four years,
becomes very well known, of course for the golf War.
(03:53):
Then he goes into private sector. Don't know if you've
ever heard that he worked for a company called Halliburton
that never came up during his political career, toyed with
the ninety six presidential race, ultimately didn't run. Also wasn't
really toying with the two thousand campaign, but he did
agree to go search for a running mate for George W. Bush,
and George W. Bush decided he wanted Cheney, and so
they won twice. And obviously there's going to be a
(04:16):
lot of talk about the Iraq War and the War
on terrorism. Cheney, of course, basically running things for a
while on nine to eleven from the underground bunker at
the White House. Well Bush was not on site, and
so decisions like grounding all the planes and shooting down
any others that might come along were left to him.
But a couple of moments here just from the debate
stage that we're going to play here real quick, and
(04:36):
I know Jim has plenty to say as well, Dick Cheney,
Joe Lieberman from the two thousand debate.
Speaker 5 (04:43):
I think if you asked most people in America today
that famous question that Ronald Reagan asked, are you better
off today than you were eight years ago? Most people
would say yes. And I'm pleased to say, Seed, Dick
from the newspapers that you're better off than you were
eight years ago.
Speaker 6 (04:58):
To most of it. And I can tell you, Joe
that the government had absolutely nothing to do with interest.
Speaker 5 (05:07):
I can see my wife and I think she's thinking, Joe,
wish you would go out into the private sector.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Well, I'm going to try to help you do that, Joe.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Great line. They're pretty cordial. Vice presidential mate in two
thousand not so much. In two thousand and four, here's
Dick Cheney talking about John Edwards performance on Capitol Hill.
Speaker 6 (05:24):
And Senator Frankly, you have a record in the Senate
that's not very distinguished. You've missed thirty three out of
thirty six meetings in the ad Disiary Committee, almost seventy
percent of the meetings of the Intelligence Committee. You've missed
a lot of key votes on tax policy, on energy,
on Medicare reform. Your hometown newspaper has taken a calling
you Senator gone. You've got one of the worst attendance
(05:45):
records in the United States Senate. Now, in my capacity's
vice President, i am the president of Senate, the presiding officer.
I'm up in the Senate most tuesdays when they're in session.
The first time I ever met you was when you
walked on the stage.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Dick Cheney might be the only politician who goes in
for the jugular on an attack line as blood pressure
actually drops it. Certainly did you go up anywhere along
the way. There's going to be a lot of talk
about Cheney, of course, endorsing Kamala Harris, which is a
bridge too far for me, certainly with some of the
never Trump folks. But he wasn't always never Trump, as
you point out in the Jolt today. So I think
(06:21):
I've said enough at this point. Jim. I know you
wrote about him today, but there's so much to think
about when you think about the legacy of Dick Cheney.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Sure well, first of all, it's always good to hear
from the late Senator Lieberman, the former Three Martini podcast
guest Joe Lieberman. Always it was a good conversation a
few years ago. Greg, I was thinking about this. I
think you can make an argument certainly within our lifetimes
and maybe in the last you know, maybe one hundred years,
but the most influence, certainly in the last fifty years.
(06:48):
I'm trying to think of other Americans who were not
president who had greater influence over policy. And maybe you
could say Ted Kennedy, maybe you could say Henry Kissinger,
but I think he's up there. And you mentioned not
just as vice president but a secretary of Defense.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
I tried to walk through kind of thinking about his
relationship with the MAGA movement, and it's very Back in
twenty sixteen, he was the only former president or vice
president who endorsed Donald Trump to be president. H. W. Bush,
who was alive at the time, and George W.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Bush did not.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Now, some might have thought that was trying to help
his daughter Liz Cheney, but nonetheless that was a you know,
like he was on board with that. Even helped get
Rex Tillerson confirmed as Secretary of State. There was a
decent amount of skepticism by Republican senators, including from by
the way, looking back some irony Marco Rubia and who
is now serving as a US Secretary of State. Cheney
(07:42):
called him up and said, don't worry. Tellison's a good guy.
You can trust him. He's going to do you know. Now,
Trump's relationship with Tillerson did not go great as the
presidency went on, but it's just an observation that Chaney was,
if not MAGA friendly, MAGA allied, willing to work with
MAGA at various points. Was January sixth, Liz Cheney's criticism
of Trump became much louder Stauncher Harsher. You know, it
(08:08):
became one of her central themes, and the people of
Wyoming chose not to do that, to go down that path.
Trump very much backed Hagman to get rid of, to
remove her from from that primary, and Cheney endorsed Kamala Harris.
And I think for a whole bunch of you know,
as a as a never Trump conservative.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
That was a bridge too far. I'm not you know,
I was not on board with that.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
But then again, if you know, Trump had knocked out
one of my kids from Congress, maybe I'd feel the
same way too. But just look at so you know,
Cheney was always one of my favorites, and I guess
I can now reveal it's been a big year for
me and beloved elderly conservatives passing away, freeing me to
talk about things that were off the record. So you
mentioned you showed some of that audio and video from
the debate with John Edwards way back when when I
(08:54):
was writing the carry spot. Dick Cheney's daughter Mary was
brought up in that debate by John Edwards several times
the context of this discussion about gay marriage, and the
Cheney family basically thought that that was dirty pool, that
was below the belt. And I, you know, wrote exactly
what you'd think I would write about that slime ridden
trial lawyer, ambulance chasing sob. And apparently the Cheney family
(09:17):
noticed that and appreciated that. So at some point, I
guess I can also reveal this. Hugh Hewitt says to me,
what's your mailing address? And I figure this is just
to you know, send me a letter bomb at some
point or something, and so I passed it along. A
couple of weeks after the election, I get a very
official looking envelope from the White.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
House, and I'll look at this and sing, what did
I do? I open up.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
It is an invitation and I have you over there
behind my wall, invitation to dinner with the Vice President
at a certain date to myself and Missus Garretty. Now,
at that time, Missus Garretty was doing some important things,
and I was like, did you save the country, did
you do a Jack Bauer thing? Or something like that,
why are we being invited to the vite? No, it
was apparently over They appreciated this. So I had a
(09:59):
bunch of other conservative bloggers. I'll let them decide if
they want to talk about this publicly. We have to
have dinner with the Vice president. And the Naval Observatory
is every bit as nice as you would think it
would be. Lynn Chaney was every bit the most gracious
hostess you could ever possibly want. And finally a little
bit that the Vice president comes in and you know,
like this, this is a big deal, and I'm like,
(10:19):
you know, kind of starting off, not starting out in
my career then, but I'm I haven't been in this
kind of situation before. At that point, Vice President Cheney
had just been over to foreshadowing irony Ukraine, and about
the point, you know, I talked to Victor Yushenko, who
you may recall was the leader who was poisoned, you know,
as everyone kind of suspects by Russia. His face was
kind of disfigured by that, and he talked a bit
(10:41):
about his meeting. This very front and center on Cheney's
mind at that time, being the wise, you know, sharp,
quick witted person that I am. I asked the Vice
President does he now have a phobia about soups? And
you know, the Vice President just kind of looked at
me and goes, huh and just kind of continues his story.
So just for thing about the great impression that I know. Unsurprisingly,
(11:02):
the Vice President the United States was much more interested
in my wife and than he was in me. I
cannot to grudge him that she has a fascinating life story.
But it was a night I'll never forget. Off the
record and off camera, he's the same guy you kind
of saw on camera that he was. You know, there
was this dry wit. He was very well versed in
all manner of Mostly. I remember talking a lot about
foreign policy. I remember there was a discussion about immigration
(11:24):
and the idea that I think somebody made a comment
was kind of a kind of in the tone of
these immigrants are coming here and ruining this country. Something was,
you know, kind of xenophobic. And I remember Lynn Cheney
saying something like, you know, that's just what they said
about the Irish, that's just what they said about the
just what they said.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
About the Greeks.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
You know that the idea that this this idea of
oh the immigrants are coming here and ruining the place.
It's a very old here, and all of these people
came and assimilated and became Americans. So anyway, it was
just a terrific evening. And I just always said, you know,
a soft spot in my heart for the guy who
allegedly had no heart. And you know when you said
about how he could, you know, it's kind of slipped
(12:00):
the knife rhetorically into Lieberman or Edwards without raising his
pulse rate. I agree with you, Greg, but I'll admit
it's very tough to measure. It's very tough to get
a good reading on Cheney's pulse rate un at.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
A given time.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
But anyway, like you know, I look at this guy,
and you want to talk about a guy who understood
that we lived in a dangerous world. The other thing
it was great irony is that you know how much
he's largely not liked by the MAGA crowd, in large
part because of the Liz Cheneese you know, stances over
the time. But really you think about it, the worldview,
there was a considerable amount of overlap in defense policy.
(12:33):
It was a considerable amount of overlap in energy policy.
I understand you know, you listen to Trump these days,
and he really wants to control the Panama Canal and
he's threatening military force. Son, who do you think invented that?
Speaker 6 (12:45):
This?
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Was Shaney as Secretary of Defense back in nineteen eighty
nine when we got rid of Manuel Noriega. You know,
Maduro's denouncing Trump. Maduro was denouncing Cheney back then. Like
there's a it's really fascinating to see the parallels between
what's allegedly this terror neo Khon warmongering Bush Cheney era
foreign policy and this allegedly isolationist, allegedly non interventionist Donald
(13:09):
Trump policies we see today. I think there's a little
more parallels on either side, would like to admit. So anyway,
rest in peace to Chaney. You will be missed, and
I don't think we will see his kind again, perhaps
in our lifetimes.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
A lot on the left, especially the lefty randos on
social media or you know, celebrating his death and calling
him a war criminal and all this stuff. And I
just would like to remind the left, you're the reason
ultimately that he was in that position, because if Dick
Cheney stayed in Congress and the Democrats hadn't tanked the
John Tower nomination, he probably is never Defense secretary. He's
(13:43):
probably and if he's not Defense secretary, he's probably never
on the Bush ticket. And so by spiking the Tower nomination,
you know, you kind of accelerated his rise towards the
vice presidency. Now, he might have ended up as Speaker
of the House.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
He was the.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Minority whip at that point, and I think he probably
would have been minority leader. And ultimately, if the ninety
four revolution still happens, he's probably Speaker of the House,
which would have been an interesting choice.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
To that.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
I will say, thank you, Democrats, thank you for making
those decisions. Thank you for tanking the John Tower nomination
at all the dominoes that followed from that decision in history.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
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(15:24):
martini now. And for that we are focusing in a
couple of different ways. Number one Eric Holder, former attorney
general for Barack Obama, his wingman, as he publicly said it,
you know, back while he was attorney general and even since.
Eric Holder has been busy doing a lot of things
that don't make a lot of sense unless you're a leftist.
One is preventing states from cleaning up their voting roles.
(15:46):
He did that as attorney general. Now he's very much
in this push to get blue states to get their
congressional maps even bluer as a result of you know
what Texas is doing, but now California's doing it and
Virginia's doing it. And now we'll find out also that
Wes Moore, the governor of Maryland, wants Maryland to have
a bluer congressional map, which can't get much bluer. There's
(16:07):
only one Republican health seat right now. But Eric Holder
is also trying to delegitimize the Supreme Court. It's not
the first time he's done this, but he was on
a podcast, and basically, because the majority is not in
their favor anymore, the left just keeps demonizing the current system.
Speaker 7 (16:24):
I think, you know, the reality is it pains me
to say this. I think the Supreme Court is a
broken institution and it's something that has to be I
think a part of the national conversation in twenty six
and in twenty eight what are we going to do
about the Supreme Court? And I think that we have
to think about again talking about the acquisition and the
use of power. If there is a democratic trifecta in
(16:47):
twenty twenty eight, and I think the possibility of that
is pretty good. Supreme Court reform is something that has
to be considered.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
He sounds so even toned, Jim, But he's out there
basically trying to so division and undermine our institutions. But
I guess it's okay when Democrats do that. So what
do you make of Holder wielding this power kind of
behind the scenes, with the different organizations he's with, And
what do you make of the efforts to make blue
states even bluer?
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Well, first of all, Greg, I don't know about you,
but I was glad to hear it pains him so
much to say that that. I'm be curious. Is it
a sharp stabbing pain, is it a slow burning? Is
it indigestion? Has something to do with you?
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Ate last night? Eric Holder? Something like that.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
You know what he says, the Supreme Court is broken.
I'd really love for him to elaborate on how he
believes it's broken and not just keeps making decisions that
I don't want it to make right, you know, Oh,
it's broken because it keeps wanting to have a strict
constructionist view of the Constitution, or it keeps asking what
the founding fathers would have thought of this particular issue,
or something like that, We're gonna have to what are
(17:52):
we going to do about the Supreme Court? If a
presidential candidate on the Republican in side had said, you know,
I'm frustrated with Congress. Are you going to do about Congress?
What are we going to Anything that prevents Democrats from
getting what they want instantly becomes a problem. Now to
be like one of those old software salesmen, it's not
a bug, it's a feature.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Right.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
The whole point of this is that, like it's not
supposed to be easy to snap your fingers and make
something happening under ourselves. It's supposed to be hard to get,
you know, stuff passed. You have to build consensus first,
and that means convincing people who don't always agree with
you all the time. Right, if you actually wanted that
to happen, you know, this would be like the sixty
vote threshold for you know, that's not ungodly. Somebody's got
(18:34):
a fifty percent, but you know, so the lowest you
can have as the majority is fifty and having the
vice presidents, you know, breaking the tally. Republicans have fifty
three right now on the issue of continuing resolution.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
They got three more. They're fifty six, right, convincing four more.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
You and I and a whole bunch of other conservative
including a who bunch of Senate Republicans and John Thune
have said, we're not getting rid of the filibuster just
because we're frustrated here and now. Right, there's a kind
of this idea of at least most Republicans have this
sense the Constitution is built the way it is for
a reason, and it's hard to change, but not impossible
to change for a reason because you don't want the
Constitution changing, willy nilly. We also don't want Supreme Court
(19:13):
justices changing their interpretation of the Constitution. Willy nilly. We
want it to be really hard to change it. We
want precedent to matter. Now, every once in a while,
you get something that's like really really wrong, right Brown
versus Bard of education. Right, they oh segregations. Okay, that
was a really wrongly decided one. Right, So the Supreme
Court has to have the opportunity ability to say, well,
(19:33):
our predecessors were a bunch of morons. They completely botched
this one. This is you know, we need to have
that opportunity. But otherwise, when you don't get your way
at the Supreme Court, you don't instantly decide, oh, well,
you know it's time to pull the FDR card and
add more Supreme Court justices. And if you want to
enact term limits, you know, I don't like that idea,
but you're free to try and pass that as a
constitutional amendment.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Now that's a very big question of like, do you.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Grandfather in everybody who's there right now, and do you say,
starting down, oh, there's a twenty year term limit on
the Supreme Court or something like, we could have that discussion.
I I'm not a big fan of those ideas, but
if if you applied it to everybody, then maybe you'd have
an opening there. Eric Holder's arguments are entirely we are
not getting what we want. Therefore the Supreme Court is broken.
(20:16):
We are not getting what we want, therefore this constitution
is broken.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
No. No, that's not the way any.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Of this stuff is supposed to work. I've turned into
that the old lady in the commercial. That's not how
this works. That's not how any of this works when
you're putting faces on the wall for your Facebook, just
to have the thoughts on the on the Maryland, So
you mentioned there's one Republican district in Maryland, right, it's
seven to one that one of you get eight to zero.
Speaker 6 (20:40):
Right.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Of those other Democratic districts, there's one that's D plus
three that you could argue as a sewing district. Everything
else is D plus ten or higher. These are numbers
from the Cook Partisan Voting Index. They basically run their
numbers and say, okay, which way does what's the usual turnout?
What's the usual result in a district like this? Else
is D plus ten? Is including a D plus thirty seven?
(21:03):
How much more do Maryland Democrats want the map in
their favor?
Speaker 6 (21:06):
What?
Speaker 3 (21:07):
It's too competitive right now. And it's the same thing
going on in California as we're recording this. They're voting
out there extremely likely that the Gavin Newsom Gavin Mander
is going to pass out there knock out five existing
House Republicans. Now, I point out there are nine House
Republicans representing California right now. Some of them, like Darrell
Lisa's district is pretty darn red. And no matter how
(21:28):
you draw the lines, you're gonna have a big chunk
of Republicans there. But there are other ones like Young
kim Ken caliber, like these are swing districts. When you
hear people saying I want mid district, mid decade redistricting,
what they're talking about is eliminating swing districts.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Now.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Would I rather see a Republican House than a Democratic House, Absolutely,
But I like having swing districts.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
They're kind of useful.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
The fact that you know what every district is D
plus twenty or R plus twenty.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
You end up in a.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Situation where they're like, there's no there's no competition, that
doesn't really matter. Nobody bothers to show up because they
know the election's done before it got started. So I
think it's good to have swing districts. And every time
you hear this, whether it's Maryland, whether it's California, whether
it's Texas, you end up in a situation where we're
basically saying we want to have as few competitive house
districts as possible, And I don't think that's good for
the country.
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Speaker 4 (24:10):
All right, Jim, some true craziness, some true insanity in
our final Martini today. You know it's just a little
over a month ago that we learned about the twenty
twenty two text exchange where Jay Jones, the Democrat running
for Attorney General in Virginia, was talking to another colleague
on the Republican side and suggesting the murder of the
Speaker of the Virginia House, maybe the children, so his
(24:33):
wife would have to hold a dying child, and then
maybe maybe Todd Gilbert would have to change his mind
on policy.
Speaker 6 (24:38):
Well.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Out in Montana, Tim Sheehy is the brand new Republican
senator out there, beat on tester last November, and he
voted in support of the One Big Beautiful Bill earlier
this year. Democrats did not like that at all. One
constituent is named Haley McKnight, and now Haley McKnight, in
addition to being a constituent, is also running for the
(24:59):
Helena City Commission. And so this was her voicemail. This
was her voicemail think about actually leaving us on a
voicemail to Senator Shi apparently earlier this year.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Hi, this is Haley. I'm a constituent in Helena, Montana,
and I just wanted to let you know that you
are the most insufferable kind of calend and thief. You
just stripped away healthcare for seventeen million Americans, and I
hope you're really proud of that. I hope that one
day you get pancreatic cancer and it spreads throughout your
body so fast that they can't even treat you for it.
(25:31):
I hope that you die in the street like a dog.
I one day you're going to live to regret this.
I hope that your children never forgive you. I hope
that you are infertile. I hope you never managed to
ever again. You are the worst piece of I've ever
ever ever had the misfortune of looking at. And you
(25:56):
don't serve montanas. You serve your own private interests. All
that you have done since you've gotten into power is
for yourself. God forbid that you ever meet me on
the streets, because I will make you regret it. I
hope you die so Jim.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
I mean I almost cracked up at the where she
started off with kind of an enthusiastic high and then
within fifteen seconds was wishing death on Senator She But
you know, this is not an office as high as
Attorney General of Virginia. But it just kind of shows
the mentality where if somebody votes or champions a bill
that disagrees with where you are, then you all of
(26:35):
a sudden are wishing death upon people. We have a problem,
and it's not very isolated anymore, it seems.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
So this comes from my distinguished colleague, Audrey Fahlberg, who
seems to be generating at least one jaw dropping scoop
per week. Audrey, please stay with us forever because you're awesome.
But anyway, the detail in this story that really jumped
out at me is that she called up McKnight and said,
do you regret it that dancewers No. Pressed on whether
her voicemail went too far, McKnight said, no, I don't
(27:05):
think so. She said that she had friends who have
died from pancreatic cancer because they could not get the
help they need and the healthcare that they So that's
why she believes it is correct to wish cancer upon
Senator Shihi. Now, earlier this year, I had the opportunity
to interview Casey DeSantis up the Nation Review Ideas Summit.
Now is probably a lot of listeners know she was
diagnosed with breast cancer in October twenty twenty one and
(27:27):
thankfully declared cancer free in March twenty twenty two. And
I began my comments, or I asked the crowd, you
know how many of you have lost someone you love
to cancer? And just about every hand went up and
I said, how many of you have a loved one
who's fighting cancer? Then the rest of those hands went
up that this was you know, this is something I
think almost universal. Almost everybody has lost somebody they loved
(27:50):
because of cancer, and we've made great strides and treatment.
I know people who are fighting it right now and
some people who are doing great, and some people who
are having a tough times. And also the other thing
I would point out, like, look, we all get mad,
we all get angry, a lot of us. I certainly
have lost my temper plenty of times, and it's not great.
So you know that's to error is human. I think
(28:12):
it's the call back later when Audrey calls up and said,
do you regret anything you said? Do you think anything
went too far? It would have been really great for
this woman to say, yeah, I really shouldn't have wished
cancer upon him.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
I just want to see him defeated and out of all.
But yeah, like it's a free country.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
You can hate elected officials, but you really should not
walk around with this much hatred in your heart. And
I do feel like something has genuinely changed in our
culture to the point where certain people believe This is
a substitute for having a personality. This is how they
define themselves. It's not just like, oh, you think you
hate the other party that much, Look at me, Look
(28:48):
at how much I hate the people. This has just
become all consuming. And I don't think this is the
way you're supposed to live your life. I don't think
it's psychologically. I don't think it's religiously. I don't think
it's like I think, by a whole bunch of different measures.
This is the sign of someone who's like deeply, deeply trolled.
Then look, you know you and I make fun of
elected officials all the time on this podcast. I'm not
saying you have to love all of them. I'm not
saying you have to respect all of them, not saying
(29:09):
you have to sing their praises, but you probably should
not run around saying, oh, I hope they get cancer
and all of that. Bonus points to sheh for his
response where she said I hope you go infertile. He's like,
I got four kids, I'm doing okay, And I think
that's probably the best way to handle this. But is
a little frightening. I do think that, you know, after
the Charlie kirkshooting after the J Jones thing, like, you
(29:31):
just kind of see all of these people for whom
hatred of the opposition. And I know it exists on
both sides, but it certainly feels like we're seeing a
lot of this amongst Democrats. And I wonder if if
you're a Republican, you say, bo, I hope that Democrat dies.
I hope that democrat gets, you know, cancer. Maybe you
have some friend, some Christian, who was like, that's not
(29:52):
what christ wants you to do. That's not being a
good person. That's not being a good ambassador for your
worldview and the values that you claim a spouse. And
I don't know if these Democrats have people in their
lives who can tell them that, who would say, Dude,
this is not who you want to be. This is
not you know, you are not stopping hate in this
world by expressing it and professing it. And the other
(30:13):
second thing is like, remember not just that J Jones
texted all these terrible things, it's that when a Republican
lawmaker said, dude, you don't want to say this, he
called up and get argued and said, yes, the world
would be a better place for Republican lawmakers saw their
children's dying in their arms, like I don't. J Jones
probably belongs in the same asylum. Never mind, you know,
the state attorney General's office. And so like you worry
(30:35):
about people, you worry about whether these people are somethingy
going to pick up a gun or do something else
radical or something like that. She says, I hope you
don't run into me in the streets. Now you run
into an elected official in the street, you can give
a piece of your mind. Apparently, my uncle once ran
into Peter King in the dentist's office. When Peter King,
the former congressman, are all the he couldn't get away,
(30:57):
and so my uncle got to give Peter King a
piece of his mind. Whether it's nothing Peter King could do.
And the only Peter King could say, I rot ha ha,
I know all that kindness, like you know, like it
was a sweet moment in my uncle's life. Senators come
and go, you know, Governors come and go, Presidents come
and go. As we began this this program talking about
Dick Cheney, all this, everybody's gonna leave the stage at
(31:18):
some point. The question is who are you and who
do you want to be what kind of person do
you want to be? And I hope you're not the
kind of person who runs around leaving voice mess you
just hoping people get pantreatic cancer. But even worse with
that cheerful.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
HI, call me back.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Yeah, and all for making able bodied Medicaid recipients either
look for or find work. Doesn't like the most hateful
thing ever. But but the larger lesson is, first of all,
don't don't have those, you know, raging thoughts, but definitely
don't leave it on voicemail or write it in an email.
Calm down, and then call back if you really want
(31:51):
to talk to them, and without looking like an absolute
insane person. So anyway, the more you know, or.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
I was trying to reach my state senator, senator, she
was totally different. Sorry, lung one. Somebody once wrote in
response to a Washington Post column, I'd written that I
had been sucking up to Trump the entire time, and
I was, you know, and I know they say, don't
read the comment section, but I was like, how could
you affuming? And afuming my dear colleague Ramesh Maanura, who
himself is overcoming cancer and God bless him. Ramesh said
(32:20):
I think she thinks you're Mark Theeson, and all of
a sudden everything made sense. Oh you're thinking of a
completely different Washington Post columnist. Yes he's right of center.
Yes we agree on a bunch of stuff, but he's
been much more pro Trump than I have.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
And it was just this issue. So that's how you
get out of it.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
If you've really, you know, embarrassed yourself by saying something terrible. Oh,
I didn't mean you, Sorry, Rogumay, I'm a hateful maniac,
but not towards you.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
Jim Garretty National Review. I'm Greg Corumbus of Radio America.
Thanks so much for being with us today. Please be
sure to subscribe to the podcast if you don't already,
tell your friends about us as well. Thanks also for
your five star ratings and your kind reviews. Please keep
those coming. Get us on your home devices. All you
have to say is play Three Martini Lunch podcast. Follow
us both on X He's at Jim Garretty, I'm at
Greg Corumbus and coming soon Facebook and Instagram. Have a
(33:02):
great Tuesday, don't forget to vote and join us again
on Wednesday for the next Three Martini Lunch
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