September 11, 2025 • 39 mins
Join Jim and Greg for Thursday's 3 Martini Lunch as they react to the horrifying political assassination of Turning Point USA Founder and CEO Charlie Kirk.
First, they examine the murder of Kirk at Utah Valley University, breaking down the latest developments in the investigation. They cover details on the weapon used, the ongoing manhunt for the suspect, and evidence suggesting transgender ideology and Antifa extremism may have motivated the attack. They also reflect on the shock and revulsion at hearing the news.
Next, they chronicle the execrable coverage of the shooting on MSNBC. From the very beginning, anchor Katy Tur implicitly blamed Utah's gun laws. Commentator Matthew Dowd blamed Kirk's "hate speech" for inciting his own shooting. Dowd was fired before the end of the day. And while many on the left did express outrage over the shooting, way too many lefties on social media brazenly celebrated Kirk's death.
Then, they look back on what Kirk accomplished in his 31 years and whether this tragedy will finally push the nation to confront the forces driving such violence or if it signals a darker tipping point ahead.
Finally, they reflect on the 24 years since the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
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First, they examine the murder of Kirk at Utah Valley University, breaking down the latest developments in the investigation. They cover details on the weapon used, the ongoing manhunt for the suspect, and evidence suggesting transgender ideology and Antifa extremism may have motivated the attack. They also reflect on the shock and revulsion at hearing the news.
Next, they chronicle the execrable coverage of the shooting on MSNBC. From the very beginning, anchor Katy Tur implicitly blamed Utah's gun laws. Commentator Matthew Dowd blamed Kirk's "hate speech" for inciting his own shooting. Dowd was fired before the end of the day. And while many on the left did express outrage over the shooting, way too many lefties on social media brazenly celebrated Kirk's death.
Then, they look back on what Kirk accomplished in his 31 years and whether this tragedy will finally push the nation to confront the forces driving such violence or if it signals a darker tipping point ahead.
Finally, they reflect on the 24 years since the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
Please visit our great sponsors:
Support your health with Dose Daily. Save 25% on your first month when you subscribe at https://DoseDaily.co/3ML or enter code 3ML at checkout.
Keep your skin looking and acting younger for longer. Get 15% off OneSkin with the code 3ML at https://www.OneSkin.co/
This Fall, save up to 50% on select plants at Fast Growing Trees—plus get an extra 15% off your first purchase with code MARTINI at https://www.Fast-Growing-Trees.com (limited time, terms apply).
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Three Martini Lunch.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Grab a stool next to Greg Corumbus of Radio America
and Jim Garritty of National Review.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Free Martini's coming up.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Really glad you're with us for the Thursday edition of
the three mar teeny Lunch. Usually we like to have
a lot of laughs during the day, and who knows
if they'll find their way in there once or twice today,
But today is not a day that we're going to
be all that jovial. We're going to be spending a
lot of time, really the whole time, other than a
few thoughts, of course, about the twenty fourth anniversary of
the nine to eleven terrorist attacks. Towards the end of
(00:34):
our conversation today, we're going to be devoting the podcast
to the assassination, the political assassination, as Utah Governor Spencer
Cox calls it, of Turning Point USA founder and CEO
Charlie Kirk on the campus of Utah Valley University yesterday
and Jim, we'll get into the latest details as we
know them and what most people probably know by now
in just a moment. But yesterday's one of those days
(00:57):
where you're kind of glad you have a podcast day
and we had already done it yesterday because you're just
feeling your guts in the pit of your stomach and
sick to your stomach and just numb as you watch
all of this unfold and to see it actually happen
on social media is just beyondwards.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
This look, you and I have been doing this podcast
for like fifteen years now, and we've had lots of
dark stuff that we've had to talk about, you know,
the October seventh attacks and you know, all manner of
mass shootings. This this has me in about as dour, depressed, angry, frustrated,
you know, every negative emotion possible at once. My friend
(01:43):
Mickey White pointed out that, you know, Charlie Kirk started
doing this stuff when he was eighteen, so a lot
of people kind of felt like they grew up with him, right,
he's been active in politics, and they probably he was
a kid, you know, he was just this young guy.
He's thirty one, father of two very small children, husband,
Like this really resonates, and yesterday, you know, there was
(02:05):
a period of time before President Trump made the official
announcement where I don't know about you, but like my
social media DMS lots of people are saying, I heard
he didn't make it, and you saw Megan Kelly, you
saw Glenn Beck breaking down on camera, and I kind
of feel like that, like that was a signal to
people that yes, this is every bit as bad as
(02:26):
it seems, and it's okay to feel overwhelmed by grief
and everything. At this moment, there was kind of this,
you know, emotional permission slip. So just let everybody know
this is not gonna be a happy show. And we
usually like to try to be a happy show, but
this is just very hard to feel Jovi a little
bit much of anything today.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
So in addition to our nine to eleven anniversary thoughts
later in the program, we'll also later on be giving
our reflections on the work of Charlie Kirk and whether
we can actually heal politically anytime soon in our society
certainly doesn't seem like it right now. We'll talk, as
we almost always do in these situations, unfortunately, about the
(03:04):
disgraceful performance of certain members of the mainstream media no
exception to that yesterday, and then in just a moment,
we'll talk about the latest details in the case and
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(04:27):
please support this show the three Martini Lunch and tell
them that we sent you. All right, Jim onto our
first martini. As it relates to the murder of Charlie
Kirk yesterday at Utah Valley University, he was there as
part of his American Comeback tours. Actually the first stop
on this tour which he was doing what he always
(04:48):
does is going to college campuses, having anybody who wants
to come up and have a quick dialogue about a
particular shoe, ask him anything they want, and the back
and forth usually goes on and on and on. And
just past noon yesterday, Utah time, little past two Eastern time,
one shot rang out and unfortunately many of us saw
this on social media. We're not going to be able
(05:09):
to unsee it, but you can see it even from
the distance. On the first videos that came out that
he was hit and that he slumped to his left.
He was rushed out for a while there. They said
he was critical but stable, but within I guess two
two and a half hours from when the news first
came out, it was President Trump actually put the word
out on social media that Charlie Kirk had passed away.
(05:32):
And we're getting more and more details. It was a
little bit frustrating yesterday because a couple different times we
thought we had the shooter in custody. We didn't. We
still don't, but it looks like we're getting closer. Hat
tipped to your colleague James lynch Over at National Review
with the latest details. Unspent rounds found inside the rifle
that authorities belief was used in the Charlie Kirk assassination
were engraved with transgender and anti fascist writing. According to
(05:54):
an internal law enforcement memo obtained by The Wall Street Journal,
the weapon, which authorities described as a ihpowered bolt action
rifle at a Thursday morning press conference, was found wrapped
in a towel with three unspent rounds of ammunition inside.
All three rounds had writing engraved on them, and Kirk
was answering a question about mass shootings committed by transgender
(06:15):
people when he was fatally shot. The suspect remains at
largest believed to be college aged and was able to
blend in well on campus. The suspect shot Kirk from
a rooftop roughly two hundred meters from the stage where
he was taking questions from the audience. The suspect then
climbed down from the roof and fled to a wooded area,
eventually making it to a nearby suburban neighborhood. Local officials
(06:36):
also revealing that the FBI has obtained a high quality
video of the suspect, which they are choosing to withhold
from the public at this time, though they may publish
the video online if they need the public's help. They
do believe that the clarity of the video and their
ability to enhance that video should help them be able
to figure out who this is without it going viral
at this point, so Jim will have an appropriate comment
(06:57):
from Utah Governor Spencer Cox here in just moment. But
as this information trickles in here, what's coming to mind?
Speaker 4 (07:04):
You know, I completely understand any frustration with police and authorities,
and it looks I guess there were two individuals that
were characterized as persons of interest. I know at least
one of them was released, and you know, I imagine
in a circumstance like that, it's sheer chaos. You've got
everybody running everywhere. You've got so probably figuring out even
(07:25):
where the shots came from initially is probably not easy.
So I get it. I also try to have a
certain amount of i say, sympathy, but just understanding that
this police work in these circumstances is very tough. You're
going to get a lot of, you know, erroneous reports.
Almost every mass shooting, there's a claim of a second shooter,
and usually that's echoes. Usually that's some other natural explanation
(07:48):
for that. People are adrenaline are pumping, they're not necess
you know, So there's all kinds of reasons why people might,
you know, make mistakes in this process. Hopefully they catch
this guy really fast, but yeah, this is you know,
the fact that this guy has not been caught as
of this recording is another act that makes it a
factor that makes us even more frustrating.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Yeah, no question about it. And so yesterday, I think
it was early evening our time, Spencer Cox, the governor
of Utah, opening comments at a press conference, and I
think they pretty much strike and explain what really happened yesterday.
Speaker 5 (08:23):
This is a dark day for our state. It's a
tragic day for our nation. And I want to be
very clear that this is a political assassination. We are
celebrating two hundred and fifty years of the founding of
this great nation, that founding document, the Declaration of Independence,
(08:47):
That this great experiment on which we embark together two
hundred and fifty years ago, that we are endowed by
our creator with certain unalienable rights. The first one of
those is life, and today the life was taken.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
We'll hear more from Governor Coxon just the moment. We'll
certainly get less ideal reaction from the left in a
number of different ways, Jim, But just kind of your
thoughts on that encapsulation of what this story means.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
Sure, the first thought people like this the whole Charlie Kirk.
His belief was that he could go to college campuses
and change people's minds, and he ended up being pretty
darn perfective at it, and he ended up you know,
I was struck by when Andrew Bitbart passed away. It
seemed like everybody I knew on Facebook posted a picture
of themselves with Andrew Biitbart. Charlie Kirk had this very
(09:37):
similar effect on people that by going at these events,
he would, you know, in addition to giving his speech
or debate or whatever they had him doing, he would
talk to people, and even if it was just five
ten minutes, people walked away from that interaction feeling like
they knew him and that they liked him, that he
was a friend. And I think that's one of the
reasons this hit so many people so hard. It was
not just some political figure who was suddenly struck down
(10:00):
and taken from us. On the details of the investigation,
I guess we should be not the first two people
who were detained by police. I guess we're older, and
I suppose if you're going to escape, it makes sense
that the shooter would probably be young enough to blend
in with a crowd of college students and you know,
not stand out as being incongruous in that environment. And
(10:21):
a lot of speculation online immediately afterwards about the rifle
and the shot. Somebody I respect a great deal looked
at that and said, look, one shot. It was clearly
some distance away, one shot through the neck. It's conceivable
this is a lucky shot. But this is probably not
someone who is unfamiliar with firearms or shooting like this
is you know, does this mean military training? We don't know.
(10:43):
Does this mean you know? I saw people speculating about
a professional hit. The general sense is that this was
you have to be, you know, probably more than a
little skilled with firearm to make that shot, and to
fire one shot. Usually it's when there's multiple shots. That's
when people are turning towards the direction of where the
shots are coming from. So this person knew that they
had one shot and then they would going to try
(11:04):
to make their escape. So, you know, malice of forethought
and considerable planning probably went into this. I saw some
people asking questions about security, and it's like, it's a
guy speaking on a college campus.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
It's not the.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
President of the United States. It's not you know, like
you're not supposed to need bulletproof glass, you're not supposed
to need counter snipers or anything like that. So it
is I was thinking about this, you know, with the
context of the assassination attempt against Trump in Butler, Pennsylvania.
Terrible as it is, we're almost used to people trying
(11:38):
to kill elected officials and presidents. We've seen presidents assassinated,
We've seen the attempt to burn down Jos Shapiro's gubatatorial
mansion earlier this year, Lee Zelden getting stabbed, Like, we
kind of know that elected officials have a certain risk
by virtue of their being in their position. You never know,
some nut job who thinks his dog is talking to
(12:00):
him is going to try to kill him. And so
they also have you know, state police or secret service
or someone protecting them. Yeah, I don't know. I don't
know if Charlie Kirk have to travel with with bodyguard
or anything, but like, you're not supposed to need that
first ams supposed to protect. You're supposed to need know,
risking your life or going someplace and saying hey I
believe this, And yet that's where we are. Greg. So,
like I said, this is this is gonna be a
(12:21):
depressing episode and we're just getting started.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Well, yeah, he did have his own security team. There
was video of them basically carrying him away rapidly obviously
from the location where he was holding the event into
the SUVs and off to the hospital. And so still
to come, we'll have our own thoughts on Charlie Kirk's
work and his legacy and whether there's any hope for
returning to a more normal political dialogue in this country.
(12:45):
But up next we're gonna be talking about how the
media disgraced itself once again. But before we get to
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(14:09):
notes and please support our show, The Three Martini Lunch.
All right, Jim onto the media and the left responding yesterday,
most of the most prominent democratic officials at least said
the right thing on social media or in public equivalent.
(14:32):
With that a little bit as we get here into
the media, but let's talk about MSNBC in particular. One
person has already been fired. He was so off yesterday,
and that's Matthew Doubt, who you might remember from being
a key media figure during the George W. Bush years.
This is one of these people just completely lost the
plot and abandoned anything he ever believed, If he ever
(14:53):
believed anything at all, we already knew he's a low
character due to the whole Maria Shriver's story. But anyway,
he's brought on yesterday by Katie Turr, who were going
to get to in a minute. She was awful also,
and before they really had any information other than reports
that Kirk had been shot. This is what Matthew Dowd
had to say about the gun shot.
Speaker 5 (15:13):
Yeah, and again emphasize what you just emphasized.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
We don't know any of the full details of this
that we don't know if this was the supporter or
shooting their gun off in celebration or so. We have
no idea.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Shooting their gun off. Do you think the conservatives are Yosemite? Sam?
I mean what doing Charlie ko was like?
Speaker 4 (15:31):
What what country do you live in? Do you see
people shooting at the stage in celebration off it?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
You know?
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Yeah, like Matthew Dowd, you mentioned a couple of his
more infamous case. I remember some Twitter exchange she had
with Mary Catherine Ham suggesting that she, of all people,
needed more empathy, uh, And I just kind of put
that put him on my this is a terrible person
uh list for and you know it's I want to
say vindicati, but like so, you know, Matthew Dowd lived
down to his repute. I put this to my question
(16:02):
to my colleagues. If there's an election day in the
last fifteen twenty years and you knew Republicans were going
to have a good election day, which channel did you
want to watch? You can watch Fox News Channel, people
gonna be pretty happy. You can watch CNN, maybe there's
some muted consternation there. Or you could watch MSNBC, where
you know people would be setting their hair on fire. Right, so,
(16:23):
something really terrible has happened to a major conservative figure
like Charlie Kirk. You kind of knew somebody on MSNBC
was going to say something stupid. Somebody on MSNBC was
going to say something tasteless. It was just a question
of who who you know? And I kind of left
asking the question to MSNBC. You've just gotten the news
that Charlie Kirk has been shot. You don't know his condition,
(16:45):
but you know it's serious, and you're breaking into your
other regular coverage to bring people of this. I could
see bringing in your chief law enforcementforcement correspondent. I could
see bringing in your first your chief medical corus. But
there are a whole bunch of people. I don't think
you need your typical political talking head person because what
are they going to contribute to the conversation. And it
(17:06):
was not surprising that eventually he went and blurted out
something kind of insinuating that Charlie Kirk deserved this or
this is you know, well, what do you expect when
you got a bunch of concerned like that, It was
inevitable that he was going to say something that just
kind of, you know, communicates I hold these people in disdain.
I hold these people in contempt even when something is
terrible as this happens, And I just don't think that
(17:28):
person should be on there. And Greg, you kind of
said at the beginning, we're kind of glad that, like
we you know, we don't do this show live for
now that I'm glad you and I have not been
on camera when something terrible happens. Not because I think
you and I are you know, likely to blurt out
something you know, hateful or something like that, but just
(17:49):
like it's just so hard to find the words, and
the possibility that you know, if you and I were
recovering something we found out someone had been shot or assassinated,
I probably would use a lot of four letter words
and you'd have to be fired. Bleep leave, let's bleep
every word Jim is saying, because you know, I understand
you're speaking off the cuff on live television. But again,
(18:09):
this is not the first strike for Doubt and not
the first strike for tur either. And you just kind
of knew that somebody in MSNBC was going to say, hmm,
somebody is fighting for their life right now, how does
this affect the political outlook? And I just don't think
that's really that important at a time like that.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
No, no, but you mentioned the doubt effectively blamed Kirk
for his own assassination. Let's take a listen to that.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
But following up what was just said, he's been one
of the most divisive, especially devisive younger figures in this
who is constantly sort of pushing this sort of hate
speech or sort of aimed at certain groups. And I
always go back to hateful thoughts lead to hateful words,
which then lead to hateful actions. And I think that's
(18:54):
the environment we're in, that that people just you can't
stop with these sort of awful thoughts you have and
then saying these awful words and not expect awful actions
to take place, Matt And that's the unfortunate environment we're in.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Yeah, that was Katie Urr. She was not stopping that
because he was going insane. She was stopping him to
tell him that there was confirmation that Kirk had been shot.
Here's Katie Turr. First of all. One of the first
things she did was go through Utah's gun laws and
be horrified that at age twenty one, you could constitutionally
carry in the state of Utah, either openly or concealed.
But of course, over at NBC, the concern is not
(19:27):
for Charlie Kirk. It's my gosh, what might Trump do
in response to.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
This, because as we were just talking about a moment
ago with Alan after one of the DOGE employees was
allegedly attacked in Washington, DC, that's what Donald Trump used
as a justification to send in federal troops into Washington,
DC to get things under control the carjacking situation. He
(19:53):
used that, And I know it's hard to predict the future. Mark,
but you can imagine the administration using this as a
justification for.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Something, justification for something alleged attack on the Doche guy,
I'm pretty sure that's been confirmed, and it's not like
there wasn't a crime problem before that happened, So Jim,
they weren't the only ones, but man just covering themselves
in glory. Yesterday there was also you know, we got
all the Twitter randos and Blue Sky. Apparently I'm not
on Blue Sky, but apparently that was just a celebration
(20:23):
over there, including this one from the Simsbury, Connecticut Democrat Party,
which opposted Charlie Kirk, who advocates for guns everywhere, got
exactly what he deserved. So apparently if you support the
Second Amendment, you deserve to get murdered. That was in Connecticut,
but not everyone in Connecticut is like that. Thankfully, the
Connecticut Young Republicans and the Young Democrats of Connecticut issuing
(20:45):
a joint statement saying what happened at Utah Valley University
this afternoon is unacceptable. We reject all forms of political violence.
There's no place in our country for such acts, regardless
of political disagreements. We are praying for Charlie Kirk, his
family and all those at Utah Valley University impacted by
this horrible act as the community processes and recovers, and
so Jim going back to Matthew Dowd and Katie Turf
(21:06):
for a second. We see this all the time. If
there is violence aimed towards a Democrat, it's always the
rhetoric on the right that's the problem. If Trump gets
shot or Charlie Kirk gets shot, it's their rhetoric that's responsible,
not the opponent's rhetoric. In some situations, you had democrats
going as far as well, we all need to tone
(21:27):
things down. It's never them accepting that maybe there's some
wackiness on their side and riling things up. And we'll
talk about that more in the third martini. But it's
just cut and paste on some of these liberal media figures.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
I fully await the first op ed to say, who's
to blame for Charlie Kirk getting murdered? We all are. No,
I'm gonna blame the shooter. I really think that's the
guy who's most responsible there. I think you know MSNBC eventually,
like you played those clips and You're kind of like,
why is there no one in the control room yelling
cut to commercial, Like why why is there no one
(22:02):
around to recognize that this conversation is going way off
the rails and that I mean, I understand at that
point they didn't know details about the shooting, so maybe
they were afraid it was, oh, this is just a
minor wound or something. But you don't know that either,
So I don't understand how you can say, well, let's
look at the politics or something. Yesterday, late afternoon, early evening,
(22:24):
MSNBC president Rebecca Cutler puts out a statement and says,
this is you know, well, the comments were inappropriate, insensitive,
and unacceptable. We apologize for his statements, as has he,
and I can't help. But notice, you know that there
was no at that point, there was no statement of
a suspension, no statement of a you know, as I
(22:45):
put it on Twitter, not even a period in the
timeout share to think back to my days with Toddlers,
like you know, like what you know, like things really
got bad, why shouldn't it be some sort of concert
Now Subsequently, doubt has been fired, and I'm kind of,
you know, I think you wonder how much how eager
they were to keep him around in the first place.
But I definitely feel like when you just go that
(23:06):
far talking insinuating that somebody deserved to get shot, that
someone deserved to get killed, I think, you know, the irony,
like the irony is is he's saying bad thoughts lead
to bad Well, don't you think thinking somebody deserves to
get shot is a bad thought?
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Doubt?
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Don't you think you kind of are are exhibiting this
this phenomenon you're you're supposedly denouncing so frustrating but not
exactly shocking. I am glad that you know, MSNBC realized
that this was not a liability they want to be
associated with. And yeah, like on the one hand, you
kind of know that a lot of people in a
(23:41):
circumstance like this, who have a lot of hate in
their hearts are going to want to jump on social
media and say, good, he deserved what he got. I
would note Greg that Blue Sky was allegedly formed because
there was so much hate on Twitter and or you
know now renamed X and you're kind of left wondering, like,
you know, there was mad stuff on Twitter. You could
(24:03):
find that yes or X yesterday, But like my understanding
and again not on Blue Sky, that it's just a
toxic waste stump over there that everybody is celebrating, that
everybody believes this was totally justified, and very similar to
the Luigi Maggioni shooting, that these people really believe the
political violence is honky dory as long as it's directed
to people they don't agree with.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Yeah, I can't remember who to a tweeted it out yesterday,
but I think it's spot on, certainly in a larger
than we would like to see portion of the left.
That one of the biggest lies that's been perpetrated on
in our culture is that the left is the tolerant
and open minded side on this. And again we're not
talking about the whole left, but we are talking about
people who are more than willing to publicly state out
(24:46):
there that they're glad someone was murdered in broad daylight.
Who leaves a young family at home, so just utterly
repulsive on the left. All right, More thoughts on Charlie
Kirk's legacy and nine to eleven, and more comments from
Governor Cox and President Trump. In just a moment, we're
going to go longer and usual today in case you
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first monthly subscription with the code three m L. All right,
jem onto final Martini here and as we kind of
think about the legacy of Charlie Kirk, we're also going
to play some comments here from Governor Cox and President Trump.
First of all, Governor Cox, we heard from him a
(26:30):
little bit earlier talking about how this was a political
assassination and an attack on the very first inalienable right
of Americans, which is the right to life. And he
also talked about Charlie Kirk more specifically the work that
he did and how the attack on Charlie Kirk goes
against our most sacred principles.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
Charlie Kirk was first and foremost a husband and a
dad to young children. He was also very much politically involved,
and that's why he was here on campus. Charlie believed
in the power of free speech and debate to shape
ideas and to persuade people. Historically, our university campuses in
(27:15):
this nation and here in the state of Utah have
been the place where truth and ideas are formulated and debated.
And that's what he does. He comes on college campuses,
and he debates its foundational to the formation of our country,
to our most basic constitutional rights. And when someone takes
(27:37):
the life of a person because of their ideas or
their ideals, then that very constitutional foundation is threatened.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Then President Trump in a taped speech from the desk
in the Oval Office, talking about how he barely survived
political violence last year in Butler, Pennsylvania, and he's noticing
a trend.
Speaker 6 (27:58):
From the attack on my life Butler, Pennsylvania last year,
which killed a husband and father, to the attacks on
ICE agents, to the vicious murder of a healthcare executive
in the streets of New York, to the shooting of
House Majority leaders Steve Scalise and three others. Radical left
political violence has hurt too many innocent people and taken
(28:21):
too many lives. Tonight, they asked all Americans to commit
themselves to the American values for which Charlie Kirk lived
and died, the values of free speech, citizenship, the rule
of law, and the patriotic devotion and love of God.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
So when you think about Butler, Jim, if you think
they're shock, horror, outraged, now multiply that by one thousand
or more. If Trump hadn't turned to look at that
slide on the screen, he'd be dead right now if
that hadn't happened, as we said at the time, of
a grace of God. And so first of all, you
got Cox talking about what Charlie Kirk did, and then
(29:00):
Trump talking about the political climate that we're unfortunately in.
And so in this segment we're going to talk our
thoughts on Charlie Kirk and also whether there's hope going forward.
Let's start with Charlie Kirk, as we said at the beginning,
founded Turning Point USA as a teenager only thirty one
years old. Now to see the birth year of nineteen
ninety three up there on the screen is just absolutely shattering.
(29:25):
Lovely young wife to beautiful children three years old and
one year old. Charlie Kirk was incredibly effective. He built
a very successful organization. And it's hard to quantify why
gen Z guys were much stronger for Republicans in twenty
twenty four than before, but I certainly think he contributed
to that by having these dialogues on campus, making people think,
(29:47):
sparking dialogues and dorm rooms and debates and so forth.
Maybe he changed minds and of course just what was
happening around with demonizing men in general from the left
and COVID and all this stuff I think all contributed.
I have to admit that when he first became prominent,
I wasn't sure what to think of Charlie Kirk. It
seemed like he was maybe just out there trying to
make a quick book. But the more I listened to him.
(30:09):
First of all, I respected the fact that he would
go into these college campuses take a lot of hostile
questions which most people weren't doing, because he knew that
the only way to get to young adults and to
actually try to change their minds was to actually talk
with them, which nobody was doing. Most people were talking
at them or about them instead of to them. And
then the other thing was that he talked a lot
about his faith, and a lot of people in the
political world will do that. You wonder sometimes how genuine
(30:30):
it is. But the more I listened to him, the
more you could tell from the way he constructed his
comments that he was a student of the Bible. He
wasn't just mouthing platitudes. He had references. He had well
thought out ideologies that weaved into our founding ideals and
of course biblical Christianity. He was very clear about his
(30:51):
Christian faith, and I know his family, as shattered of
as they are, are clinging to that hope that he
is in a far better place today and with the Lord.
But this is a guy, guy who thought deeply. Even
if you didn't agree with exactly how he articulated everything
or where he was on every issue, I think he
was a guy who absolutely believed, strongly believed in this country.
And the more I listened to him, the more I
(31:13):
thought he was genuine.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
Greg there's a lot of anger amongst a lot of
people on the right this morning, and I think it's
very easy to see why that and why some of
these I want to say platitudes, I think they're they're
intended his heartfelt. But to say we can't resolve our
disputes through violence, we need to do this through dialogue,
well that's what Charlie Kirk did. He was doing exactly
(31:39):
what you're supposed to do. He didn't just preach to
the converted. He went out to places where he knew
there'd be plenty of students who weren't going to agree
with him. He knew there are plenty of students who
were not going to like what he had to say,
but he went out and he generally was, you know,
a lot of the time, almost all the time, was
a happy warrior, right that he was this amiable, playful,
funny And obviously it didn't convince everybody he did, but
(32:00):
I think a lot of people who interact with him
came away with a better feeling about him and of
what he believed and all that stuff, and gave him
credit and respect for showing up and being willing to engage.
So when people say, oh, we got well, I said
this on another podcast this morning, Like everything we've ever
said about cancel culture, there are a whole bunch of people.
(32:21):
Everybody's capable of self delusion, but there are a lot
of people on the left who really believe, well, we have
really terrific ideas, and the problem is those terrible people
on the right, those conservatives, they cheat somehow. And yet
cancel Culture was kind of a statement of like, well,
we don't feel like we're winning the public debate on this,
so we're going to make it so that if you
say something we disagree with, we're going to get you fired, right,
(32:44):
we're going to make it very hard for you to
find a job. We're going to make you impoverished, We're
going to have all kinds of social and economic consequences
for expressing something that we feel is objectionable. And by
the way, you can probably find a lot of people
who are fine with that over say neo Nazism, right,
or something that is genuinely extreme and or violent and
(33:05):
or indisputably hateful and not in the American tradition. But
there are people who wanted to do this about do
you believe a man's a man as a woman's a woman.
Do you want to do this over pro lifers? Do
you want to do this over gun owners? Donald Trump supporters,
all kinds of different the whole basket of deplorables. By
the way, I point out that like Hillary Clinton when
she said that, look, we're used to having political figures
(33:27):
say my opponent is an idiot. That was kind of
a slight turning point because that was the first time
I can remember a presidential candidate saying, you know, my
opponent's supporters are idiots. Your fellow Americans are idiots because
they're supporting somebody who's not me, right, that struck me
as a I know it's an infamous phrase, but I
think it represented something significant there this shift. Look, I
(33:48):
hope the legacy of Charlie Kirk is a thousand young
people just kind of like them, who are know what
they believe in, aren't afraid to say what they believe in, forthright, cheerful, funny,
and eager to interact with people who don't agree with
them and walk away with a handshake and say, Okay,
we don't have to agree with everything, but I'm glad
(34:08):
you listened to me, and I'm glad I had a
chance to listen to you. I hope that's the legacy.
I'm not sure that's going to be the legacy. I
think there's a lot of people who may look at
this and say, well, Charlie Kirk did his very best
to engage with the left and to make his arguments
and to do so in a respectful manner, and he
got shot for it, and he got killed for it.
And it's very hard to fight. I don't want to
(34:29):
I don't want to blackpol everybody. I don't want to
tell it, you know, but like this, this is really
dark and it's just an observation that like they could
do with Charlie Kirk, they could do it with anybody.
You know, I don't do a lot of public speaking,
but like you know, most of people in my profession
end up doing some sort of public appearance in one form,
Sea Pack, you know, the National Conservative. There's all kinds
(34:50):
of get togethers that are like this. And so it's
just a dark, depressing day. And hopefully this is not
lead to cycles of violence and more stuff like that.
But it really feels like yesterday feels like some sort
of as somebody was emailing around or something. You know,
this fields a little Archduke Ferdinandy. This this sense that
(35:11):
like if we may look back at this and say,
this was a really bad moment that set off dominoes
that could get very dark. So you know, hey, it's Thursday.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Yeah, well it's also nine to eleven. And the fact
that these events now kind of coincide here is particularly chilling.
The fact that we saw some of the reaction that
we did on the left and hopefully it's the far left,
tells us that we're a long way away from ever
having a nine to twelve type of America again, where
(35:44):
everybody was unified in their shock and horror and resolved
to do what we needed to do going forward, and
so and the other thing. And I don't want to
draw too many parallels here, because there's obviously a lot
of differences. But when people believe that what you believe
is so unacceptable that they're willing to do the unthinkable,
(36:05):
we have a major problem. And that problem has to
be dealt with. And I think despite the mocking, the
widespread mocking at the left date about Prairie yesterday, it
does begin with prayer. Begins with prayer for Charlie Kirk's
widow and his children. And this country, this country is
divided in an ugly way right now, and it's not
gonna fix itself in a hurry, and it's going to
(36:28):
take a lot of peaceful dialogue. It's going to take,
I think, a return to a deeper religious life in
this country. But it can't keep going the way it is,
or we're going to be in a real, real world
to hurt soon.
Speaker 4 (36:41):
Having steered us into the darkest directions of any episode
we've ever done ever, Greg, let me now kind of
try to pull out of the ditch and just kind
of observe that because I did, I too had made
that thought, and I wrote something for an R today
kind of thinking about the You know, it's a very
different scale. There are a lot of life differences, but
in the end, these are both acts of violence against
(37:03):
a person just for being an American by someone filled
with hate. And I think, you know, there are some
emotional pair of the shock, You know that the way
you feel. And the thing is is that we did
see if it wasn't a perfect nine to twelve moment,
you could find a lot of people who were saying
things that were appropriate, and I think, you know what
(37:23):
the other weird things like it was like seeing the
New York Yankees have a moment of silence for Charlie Kirk,
and people who were there were saying they'd never heard
the stadium so quiet. The sheer number of people who
are not that, who we don't even think of, pro
athletes and various other celebrities who've put out statements. I
(37:43):
was really pleasantly surprised to see on my personal Facebook
page a bunch of folks I know who are left
of center and not particularly fond of what I write,
but who said, you know, I didn't agree with anything
Charlie Kirk ever said, but he didn't deserve that at all.
That he's a husband and a father, and nobody deserve
to be a widow, No one deserves to be an
orphan because of a political disagreement. So I think there
(38:05):
are a decent number of people on the left who
are shocked and horrified by this, And so if it
wasn't a nine to twelve moment, there was more. We
shouldn't forget the examples that were there. And I do
think the vast majority of Americans are indeed shocked and
horrified by this and would like to see never never,
like to be happy to never see an act of
political violence in this country ever again. So maybe there's
(38:26):
some glimmers of hope there on what is otherwise just
a really horrific week and a horrific The nine to
eleven anniversary is just the cherry on top. It just
is that sense of we live in a world where
we can't control things, but sometimes that lack of control
manifests and just just terrifying, awful, outraging, deeply depressing ways.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
And cling to the one who is in control. But
I also would encourage people to think about and pray
for those who did lose loved ones on nine to eleven.
This day is incredibly difficult for them. I've interviewed people
who really got out of the towers. We've interviewed a
firefighter who was actually underneath the rubble when the South
tower collapsed and somehow miraculous as they survived. Just a
(39:09):
couple of weeks ago, one of the pilots who was
sent up from here in the DC area to interdict
any other planes that were coming, and he wasn't even armed.
There weren't even many missiles on the plane, so we
would have had to basically give his own life to
ram into the airliner had to come in. So don't
forget the heroes, don't forget those who are hurting today
as well. But right now the whole nation, most of
(39:31):
it anyway, stunned and hurting and hoping we can go
in a different direction soon. So Jim, thanks as always
for your time and your thoughts, and we'll do it
again tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (39:39):
See then hopefully back to more of our usual affair
on Friday. Hey, everybody, Friday is almost here.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
Jim Garretty, National Review. I'm Greg Corumbas Radio America. Thanks
so much for being with us today. Please subscribe if
you don't already. Also follow us on x and we
will see you on the Friday edition of the Three
Martini Lunch
Welcome to the Three Martini Lunch.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Grab a stool next to Greg Corumbus of Radio America
and Jim Garritty of National Review.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Free Martini's coming up.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Really glad you're with us for the Thursday edition of
the three mar teeny Lunch. Usually we like to have
a lot of laughs during the day, and who knows
if they'll find their way in there once or twice today,
But today is not a day that we're going to
be all that jovial. We're going to be spending a
lot of time, really the whole time, other than a
few thoughts, of course, about the twenty fourth anniversary of
the nine to eleven terrorist attacks. Towards the end of
(00:34):
our conversation today, we're going to be devoting the podcast
to the assassination, the political assassination, as Utah Governor Spencer
Cox calls it, of Turning Point USA founder and CEO
Charlie Kirk on the campus of Utah Valley University yesterday
and Jim, we'll get into the latest details as we
know them and what most people probably know by now
in just a moment. But yesterday's one of those days
(00:57):
where you're kind of glad you have a podcast day
and we had already done it yesterday because you're just
feeling your guts in the pit of your stomach and
sick to your stomach and just numb as you watch
all of this unfold and to see it actually happen
on social media is just beyondwards.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
This look, you and I have been doing this podcast
for like fifteen years now, and we've had lots of
dark stuff that we've had to talk about, you know,
the October seventh attacks and you know, all manner of
mass shootings. This this has me in about as dour, depressed, angry, frustrated,
you know, every negative emotion possible at once. My friend
(01:43):
Mickey White pointed out that, you know, Charlie Kirk started
doing this stuff when he was eighteen, so a lot
of people kind of felt like they grew up with him, right,
he's been active in politics, and they probably he was
a kid, you know, he was just this young guy.
He's thirty one, father of two very small children, husband,
Like this really resonates, and yesterday, you know, there was
(02:05):
a period of time before President Trump made the official
announcement where I don't know about you, but like my
social media DMS lots of people are saying, I heard
he didn't make it, and you saw Megan Kelly, you
saw Glenn Beck breaking down on camera, and I kind
of feel like that, like that was a signal to
people that yes, this is every bit as bad as
(02:26):
it seems, and it's okay to feel overwhelmed by grief
and everything. At this moment, there was kind of this,
you know, emotional permission slip. So just let everybody know
this is not gonna be a happy show. And we
usually like to try to be a happy show, but
this is just very hard to feel Jovi a little
bit much of anything today.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
So in addition to our nine to eleven anniversary thoughts
later in the program, we'll also later on be giving
our reflections on the work of Charlie Kirk and whether
we can actually heal politically anytime soon in our society
certainly doesn't seem like it right now. We'll talk, as
we almost always do in these situations, unfortunately, about the
(03:04):
disgraceful performance of certain members of the mainstream media no
exception to that yesterday, and then in just a moment,
we'll talk about the latest details in the case and
the significance of this story, and so we still do
need to pay the bills. And it's good to have
wonderful and excellent sponsors like One Skin. Missus Corumbus says.
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Co with the code three mL, and after you purchase,
they will ask you where you heard about them. So
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please support this show the three Martini Lunch and tell
them that we sent you. All right, Jim onto our
first martini. As it relates to the murder of Charlie
Kirk yesterday at Utah Valley University, he was there as
part of his American Comeback tours. Actually the first stop
on this tour which he was doing what he always
(04:48):
does is going to college campuses, having anybody who wants
to come up and have a quick dialogue about a
particular shoe, ask him anything they want, and the back
and forth usually goes on and on and on. And
just past noon yesterday, Utah time, little past two Eastern time,
one shot rang out and unfortunately many of us saw
this on social media. We're not going to be able
(05:09):
to unsee it, but you can see it even from
the distance. On the first videos that came out that
he was hit and that he slumped to his left.
He was rushed out for a while there. They said
he was critical but stable, but within I guess two
two and a half hours from when the news first
came out, it was President Trump actually put the word
out on social media that Charlie Kirk had passed away.
(05:32):
And we're getting more and more details. It was a
little bit frustrating yesterday because a couple different times we
thought we had the shooter in custody. We didn't. We
still don't, but it looks like we're getting closer. Hat
tipped to your colleague James lynch Over at National Review
with the latest details. Unspent rounds found inside the rifle
that authorities belief was used in the Charlie Kirk assassination
were engraved with transgender and anti fascist writing. According to
(05:54):
an internal law enforcement memo obtained by The Wall Street Journal,
the weapon, which authorities described as a ihpowered bolt action
rifle at a Thursday morning press conference, was found wrapped
in a towel with three unspent rounds of ammunition inside.
All three rounds had writing engraved on them, and Kirk
was answering a question about mass shootings committed by transgender
(06:15):
people when he was fatally shot. The suspect remains at
largest believed to be college aged and was able to
blend in well on campus. The suspect shot Kirk from
a rooftop roughly two hundred meters from the stage where
he was taking questions from the audience. The suspect then
climbed down from the roof and fled to a wooded area,
eventually making it to a nearby suburban neighborhood. Local officials
(06:36):
also revealing that the FBI has obtained a high quality
video of the suspect, which they are choosing to withhold
from the public at this time, though they may publish
the video online if they need the public's help. They
do believe that the clarity of the video and their
ability to enhance that video should help them be able
to figure out who this is without it going viral
at this point, so Jim will have an appropriate comment
(06:57):
from Utah Governor Spencer Cox here in just moment. But
as this information trickles in here, what's coming to mind?
Speaker 4 (07:04):
You know, I completely understand any frustration with police and authorities,
and it looks I guess there were two individuals that
were characterized as persons of interest. I know at least
one of them was released, and you know, I imagine
in a circumstance like that, it's sheer chaos. You've got
everybody running everywhere. You've got so probably figuring out even
(07:25):
where the shots came from initially is probably not easy.
So I get it. I also try to have a
certain amount of i say, sympathy, but just understanding that
this police work in these circumstances is very tough. You're
going to get a lot of, you know, erroneous reports.
Almost every mass shooting, there's a claim of a second shooter,
and usually that's echoes. Usually that's some other natural explanation
(07:48):
for that. People are adrenaline are pumping, they're not necess
you know, So there's all kinds of reasons why people might,
you know, make mistakes in this process. Hopefully they catch
this guy really fast, but yeah, this is you know,
the fact that this guy has not been caught as
of this recording is another act that makes it a
factor that makes us even more frustrating.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Yeah, no question about it. And so yesterday, I think
it was early evening our time, Spencer Cox, the governor
of Utah, opening comments at a press conference, and I
think they pretty much strike and explain what really happened yesterday.
Speaker 5 (08:23):
This is a dark day for our state. It's a
tragic day for our nation. And I want to be
very clear that this is a political assassination. We are
celebrating two hundred and fifty years of the founding of
this great nation, that founding document, the Declaration of Independence,
(08:47):
That this great experiment on which we embark together two
hundred and fifty years ago, that we are endowed by
our creator with certain unalienable rights. The first one of
those is life, and today the life was taken.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
We'll hear more from Governor Coxon just the moment. We'll
certainly get less ideal reaction from the left in a
number of different ways, Jim, But just kind of your
thoughts on that encapsulation of what this story means.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
Sure, the first thought people like this the whole Charlie Kirk.
His belief was that he could go to college campuses
and change people's minds, and he ended up being pretty
darn perfective at it, and he ended up you know,
I was struck by when Andrew Bitbart passed away. It
seemed like everybody I knew on Facebook posted a picture
of themselves with Andrew Biitbart. Charlie Kirk had this very
(09:37):
similar effect on people that by going at these events,
he would, you know, in addition to giving his speech
or debate or whatever they had him doing, he would
talk to people, and even if it was just five
ten minutes, people walked away from that interaction feeling like
they knew him and that they liked him, that he
was a friend. And I think that's one of the
reasons this hit so many people so hard. It was
not just some political figure who was suddenly struck down
(10:00):
and taken from us. On the details of the investigation,
I guess we should be not the first two people
who were detained by police. I guess we're older, and
I suppose if you're going to escape, it makes sense
that the shooter would probably be young enough to blend
in with a crowd of college students and you know,
not stand out as being incongruous in that environment. And
(10:21):
a lot of speculation online immediately afterwards about the rifle
and the shot. Somebody I respect a great deal looked
at that and said, look, one shot. It was clearly
some distance away, one shot through the neck. It's conceivable
this is a lucky shot. But this is probably not
someone who is unfamiliar with firearms or shooting like this
is you know, does this mean military training? We don't know.
(10:43):
Does this mean you know? I saw people speculating about
a professional hit. The general sense is that this was
you have to be, you know, probably more than a
little skilled with firearm to make that shot, and to
fire one shot. Usually it's when there's multiple shots. That's
when people are turning towards the direction of where the
shots are coming from. So this person knew that they
had one shot and then they would going to try
(11:04):
to make their escape. So, you know, malice of forethought
and considerable planning probably went into this. I saw some
people asking questions about security, and it's like, it's a
guy speaking on a college campus.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
It's not the.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
President of the United States. It's not you know, like
you're not supposed to need bulletproof glass, you're not supposed
to need counter snipers or anything like that. So it
is I was thinking about this, you know, with the
context of the assassination attempt against Trump in Butler, Pennsylvania.
Terrible as it is, we're almost used to people trying
(11:38):
to kill elected officials and presidents. We've seen presidents assassinated,
We've seen the attempt to burn down Jos Shapiro's gubatatorial
mansion earlier this year, Lee Zelden getting stabbed, Like, we
kind of know that elected officials have a certain risk
by virtue of their being in their position. You never know,
some nut job who thinks his dog is talking to
(12:00):
him is going to try to kill him. And so
they also have you know, state police or secret service
or someone protecting them. Yeah, I don't know. I don't
know if Charlie Kirk have to travel with with bodyguard
or anything, but like, you're not supposed to need that
first ams supposed to protect. You're supposed to need know,
risking your life or going someplace and saying hey I
believe this, And yet that's where we are. Greg. So,
like I said, this is this is gonna be a
(12:21):
depressing episode and we're just getting started.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Well, yeah, he did have his own security team. There
was video of them basically carrying him away rapidly obviously
from the location where he was holding the event into
the SUVs and off to the hospital. And so still
to come, we'll have our own thoughts on Charlie Kirk's
work and his legacy and whether there's any hope for
returning to a more normal political dialogue in this country.
(12:45):
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(14:09):
notes and please support our show, The Three Martini Lunch.
All right, Jim onto the media and the left responding yesterday,
most of the most prominent democratic officials at least said
the right thing on social media or in public equivalent.
(14:32):
With that a little bit as we get here into
the media, but let's talk about MSNBC in particular. One
person has already been fired. He was so off yesterday,
and that's Matthew Doubt, who you might remember from being
a key media figure during the George W. Bush years.
This is one of these people just completely lost the
plot and abandoned anything he ever believed, If he ever
(14:53):
believed anything at all, we already knew he's a low
character due to the whole Maria Shriver's story. But anyway,
he's brought on yesterday by Katie Turr, who were going
to get to in a minute. She was awful also,
and before they really had any information other than reports
that Kirk had been shot. This is what Matthew Dowd
had to say about the gun shot.
Speaker 5 (15:13):
Yeah, and again emphasize what you just emphasized.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
We don't know any of the full details of this
that we don't know if this was the supporter or
shooting their gun off in celebration or so. We have
no idea.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Shooting their gun off. Do you think the conservatives are Yosemite? Sam?
I mean what doing Charlie ko was like?
Speaker 4 (15:31):
What what country do you live in? Do you see
people shooting at the stage in celebration off it?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
You know?
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Yeah, like Matthew Dowd, you mentioned a couple of his
more infamous case. I remember some Twitter exchange she had
with Mary Catherine Ham suggesting that she, of all people,
needed more empathy, uh, And I just kind of put
that put him on my this is a terrible person
uh list for and you know it's I want to
say vindicati, but like so, you know, Matthew Dowd lived
down to his repute. I put this to my question
(16:02):
to my colleagues. If there's an election day in the
last fifteen twenty years and you knew Republicans were going
to have a good election day, which channel did you
want to watch? You can watch Fox News Channel, people
gonna be pretty happy. You can watch CNN, maybe there's
some muted consternation there. Or you could watch MSNBC, where
you know people would be setting their hair on fire. Right, so,
(16:23):
something really terrible has happened to a major conservative figure
like Charlie Kirk. You kind of knew somebody on MSNBC
was going to say something stupid. Somebody on MSNBC was
going to say something tasteless. It was just a question
of who who you know? And I kind of left
asking the question to MSNBC. You've just gotten the news
that Charlie Kirk has been shot. You don't know his condition,
(16:45):
but you know it's serious, and you're breaking into your
other regular coverage to bring people of this. I could
see bringing in your chief law enforcementforcement correspondent. I could
see bringing in your first your chief medical corus. But
there are a whole bunch of people. I don't think
you need your typical political talking head person because what
are they going to contribute to the conversation. And it
(17:06):
was not surprising that eventually he went and blurted out
something kind of insinuating that Charlie Kirk deserved this or
this is you know, well, what do you expect when
you got a bunch of concerned like that, It was
inevitable that he was going to say something that just
kind of, you know, communicates I hold these people in disdain.
I hold these people in contempt even when something is
terrible as this happens, And I just don't think that
(17:28):
person should be on there. And Greg, you kind of
said at the beginning, we're kind of glad that, like
we you know, we don't do this show live for
now that I'm glad you and I have not been
on camera when something terrible happens. Not because I think
you and I are you know, likely to blurt out
something you know, hateful or something like that, but just
(17:49):
like it's just so hard to find the words, and
the possibility that you know, if you and I were
recovering something we found out someone had been shot or assassinated,
I probably would use a lot of four letter words
and you'd have to be fired. Bleep leave, let's bleep
every word Jim is saying, because you know, I understand
you're speaking off the cuff on live television. But again,
(18:09):
this is not the first strike for Doubt and not
the first strike for tur either. And you just kind
of knew that somebody in MSNBC was going to say, hmm,
somebody is fighting for their life right now, how does
this affect the political outlook? And I just don't think
that's really that important at a time like that.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
No, no, but you mentioned the doubt effectively blamed Kirk
for his own assassination. Let's take a listen to that.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
But following up what was just said, he's been one
of the most divisive, especially devisive younger figures in this
who is constantly sort of pushing this sort of hate
speech or sort of aimed at certain groups. And I
always go back to hateful thoughts lead to hateful words,
which then lead to hateful actions. And I think that's
(18:54):
the environment we're in, that that people just you can't
stop with these sort of awful thoughts you have and
then saying these awful words and not expect awful actions
to take place, Matt And that's the unfortunate environment we're in.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Yeah, that was Katie Urr. She was not stopping that
because he was going insane. She was stopping him to
tell him that there was confirmation that Kirk had been shot.
Here's Katie Turr. First of all. One of the first
things she did was go through Utah's gun laws and
be horrified that at age twenty one, you could constitutionally
carry in the state of Utah, either openly or concealed.
But of course, over at NBC, the concern is not
(19:27):
for Charlie Kirk. It's my gosh, what might Trump do
in response to.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
This, because as we were just talking about a moment
ago with Alan after one of the DOGE employees was
allegedly attacked in Washington, DC, that's what Donald Trump used
as a justification to send in federal troops into Washington,
DC to get things under control the carjacking situation. He
(19:53):
used that, And I know it's hard to predict the future. Mark,
but you can imagine the administration using this as a
justification for.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Something, justification for something alleged attack on the Doche guy,
I'm pretty sure that's been confirmed, and it's not like
there wasn't a crime problem before that happened, So Jim,
they weren't the only ones, but man just covering themselves
in glory. Yesterday there was also you know, we got
all the Twitter randos and Blue Sky. Apparently I'm not
on Blue Sky, but apparently that was just a celebration
(20:23):
over there, including this one from the Simsbury, Connecticut Democrat Party,
which opposted Charlie Kirk, who advocates for guns everywhere, got
exactly what he deserved. So apparently if you support the
Second Amendment, you deserve to get murdered. That was in Connecticut,
but not everyone in Connecticut is like that. Thankfully, the
Connecticut Young Republicans and the Young Democrats of Connecticut issuing
(20:45):
a joint statement saying what happened at Utah Valley University
this afternoon is unacceptable. We reject all forms of political violence.
There's no place in our country for such acts, regardless
of political disagreements. We are praying for Charlie Kirk, his
family and all those at Utah Valley University impacted by
this horrible act as the community processes and recovers, and
so Jim going back to Matthew Dowd and Katie Turf
(21:06):
for a second. We see this all the time. If
there is violence aimed towards a Democrat, it's always the
rhetoric on the right that's the problem. If Trump gets
shot or Charlie Kirk gets shot, it's their rhetoric that's responsible,
not the opponent's rhetoric. In some situations, you had democrats
going as far as well, we all need to tone
(21:27):
things down. It's never them accepting that maybe there's some
wackiness on their side and riling things up. And we'll
talk about that more in the third martini. But it's
just cut and paste on some of these liberal media figures.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
I fully await the first op ed to say, who's
to blame for Charlie Kirk getting murdered? We all are. No,
I'm gonna blame the shooter. I really think that's the
guy who's most responsible there. I think you know MSNBC eventually,
like you played those clips and You're kind of like,
why is there no one in the control room yelling
cut to commercial, Like why why is there no one
(22:02):
around to recognize that this conversation is going way off
the rails and that I mean, I understand at that
point they didn't know details about the shooting, so maybe
they were afraid it was, oh, this is just a
minor wound or something. But you don't know that either,
So I don't understand how you can say, well, let's
look at the politics or something. Yesterday, late afternoon, early evening,
(22:24):
MSNBC president Rebecca Cutler puts out a statement and says,
this is you know, well, the comments were inappropriate, insensitive,
and unacceptable. We apologize for his statements, as has he,
and I can't help. But notice, you know that there
was no at that point, there was no statement of
a suspension, no statement of a you know, as I
(22:45):
put it on Twitter, not even a period in the
timeout share to think back to my days with Toddlers,
like you know, like what you know, like things really
got bad, why shouldn't it be some sort of concert
Now Subsequently, doubt has been fired, and I'm kind of,
you know, I think you wonder how much how eager
they were to keep him around in the first place.
But I definitely feel like when you just go that
(23:06):
far talking insinuating that somebody deserved to get shot, that
someone deserved to get killed, I think, you know, the irony,
like the irony is is he's saying bad thoughts lead
to bad Well, don't you think thinking somebody deserves to
get shot is a bad thought?
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Doubt?
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Don't you think you kind of are are exhibiting this
this phenomenon you're you're supposedly denouncing so frustrating but not
exactly shocking. I am glad that you know, MSNBC realized
that this was not a liability they want to be
associated with. And yeah, like on the one hand, you
kind of know that a lot of people in a
(23:41):
circumstance like this, who have a lot of hate in
their hearts are going to want to jump on social
media and say, good, he deserved what he got. I
would note Greg that Blue Sky was allegedly formed because
there was so much hate on Twitter and or you
know now renamed X and you're kind of left wondering, like,
you know, there was mad stuff on Twitter. You could
(24:03):
find that yes or X yesterday, But like my understanding
and again not on Blue Sky, that it's just a
toxic waste stump over there that everybody is celebrating, that
everybody believes this was totally justified, and very similar to
the Luigi Maggioni shooting, that these people really believe the
political violence is honky dory as long as it's directed
to people they don't agree with.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Yeah, I can't remember who to a tweeted it out yesterday,
but I think it's spot on, certainly in a larger
than we would like to see portion of the left.
That one of the biggest lies that's been perpetrated on
in our culture is that the left is the tolerant
and open minded side on this. And again we're not
talking about the whole left, but we are talking about
people who are more than willing to publicly state out
(24:46):
there that they're glad someone was murdered in broad daylight.
Who leaves a young family at home, so just utterly
repulsive on the left. All right, More thoughts on Charlie
Kirk's legacy and nine to eleven, and more comments from
Governor Cox and President Trump. In just a moment, we're
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first monthly subscription with the code three m L. All right,
jem onto final Martini here and as we kind of
think about the legacy of Charlie Kirk, we're also going
to play some comments here from Governor Cox and President Trump.
First of all, Governor Cox, we heard from him a
(26:30):
little bit earlier talking about how this was a political
assassination and an attack on the very first inalienable right
of Americans, which is the right to life. And he
also talked about Charlie Kirk more specifically the work that
he did and how the attack on Charlie Kirk goes
against our most sacred principles.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
Charlie Kirk was first and foremost a husband and a
dad to young children. He was also very much politically involved,
and that's why he was here on campus. Charlie believed
in the power of free speech and debate to shape
ideas and to persuade people. Historically, our university campuses in
(27:15):
this nation and here in the state of Utah have
been the place where truth and ideas are formulated and debated.
And that's what he does. He comes on college campuses,
and he debates its foundational to the formation of our country,
to our most basic constitutional rights. And when someone takes
(27:37):
the life of a person because of their ideas or
their ideals, then that very constitutional foundation is threatened.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Then President Trump in a taped speech from the desk
in the Oval Office, talking about how he barely survived
political violence last year in Butler, Pennsylvania, and he's noticing
a trend.
Speaker 6 (27:58):
From the attack on my life Butler, Pennsylvania last year,
which killed a husband and father, to the attacks on
ICE agents, to the vicious murder of a healthcare executive
in the streets of New York, to the shooting of
House Majority leaders Steve Scalise and three others. Radical left
political violence has hurt too many innocent people and taken
(28:21):
too many lives. Tonight, they asked all Americans to commit
themselves to the American values for which Charlie Kirk lived
and died, the values of free speech, citizenship, the rule
of law, and the patriotic devotion and love of God.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
So when you think about Butler, Jim, if you think
they're shock, horror, outraged, now multiply that by one thousand
or more. If Trump hadn't turned to look at that
slide on the screen, he'd be dead right now if
that hadn't happened, as we said at the time, of
a grace of God. And so first of all, you
got Cox talking about what Charlie Kirk did, and then
(29:00):
Trump talking about the political climate that we're unfortunately in.
And so in this segment we're going to talk our
thoughts on Charlie Kirk and also whether there's hope going forward.
Let's start with Charlie Kirk, as we said at the beginning,
founded Turning Point USA as a teenager only thirty one
years old. Now to see the birth year of nineteen
ninety three up there on the screen is just absolutely shattering.
(29:25):
Lovely young wife to beautiful children three years old and
one year old. Charlie Kirk was incredibly effective. He built
a very successful organization. And it's hard to quantify why
gen Z guys were much stronger for Republicans in twenty
twenty four than before, but I certainly think he contributed
to that by having these dialogues on campus, making people think,
(29:47):
sparking dialogues and dorm rooms and debates and so forth.
Maybe he changed minds and of course just what was
happening around with demonizing men in general from the left
and COVID and all this stuff I think all contributed.
I have to admit that when he first became prominent,
I wasn't sure what to think of Charlie Kirk. It
seemed like he was maybe just out there trying to
make a quick book. But the more I listened to him.
(30:09):
First of all, I respected the fact that he would
go into these college campuses take a lot of hostile
questions which most people weren't doing, because he knew that
the only way to get to young adults and to
actually try to change their minds was to actually talk
with them, which nobody was doing. Most people were talking
at them or about them instead of to them. And
then the other thing was that he talked a lot
about his faith, and a lot of people in the
political world will do that. You wonder sometimes how genuine
(30:30):
it is. But the more I listened to him, the
more you could tell from the way he constructed his
comments that he was a student of the Bible. He
wasn't just mouthing platitudes. He had references. He had well
thought out ideologies that weaved into our founding ideals and
of course biblical Christianity. He was very clear about his
(30:51):
Christian faith, and I know his family, as shattered of
as they are, are clinging to that hope that he
is in a far better place today and with the Lord.
But this is a guy, guy who thought deeply. Even
if you didn't agree with exactly how he articulated everything
or where he was on every issue, I think he
was a guy who absolutely believed, strongly believed in this country.
And the more I listened to him, the more I
(31:13):
thought he was genuine.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
Greg there's a lot of anger amongst a lot of
people on the right this morning, and I think it's
very easy to see why that and why some of
these I want to say platitudes, I think they're they're
intended his heartfelt. But to say we can't resolve our
disputes through violence, we need to do this through dialogue,
well that's what Charlie Kirk did. He was doing exactly
(31:39):
what you're supposed to do. He didn't just preach to
the converted. He went out to places where he knew
there'd be plenty of students who weren't going to agree
with him. He knew there are plenty of students who
were not going to like what he had to say,
but he went out and he generally was, you know,
a lot of the time, almost all the time, was
a happy warrior, right that he was this amiable, playful,
funny And obviously it didn't convince everybody he did, but
(32:00):
I think a lot of people who interact with him
came away with a better feeling about him and of
what he believed and all that stuff, and gave him
credit and respect for showing up and being willing to engage.
So when people say, oh, we got well, I said
this on another podcast this morning, Like everything we've ever
said about cancel culture, there are a whole bunch of people.
(32:21):
Everybody's capable of self delusion, but there are a lot
of people on the left who really believe, well, we have
really terrific ideas, and the problem is those terrible people
on the right, those conservatives, they cheat somehow. And yet
cancel Culture was kind of a statement of like, well,
we don't feel like we're winning the public debate on this,
so we're going to make it so that if you
say something we disagree with, we're going to get you fired, right,
(32:44):
we're going to make it very hard for you to
find a job. We're going to make you impoverished, We're
going to have all kinds of social and economic consequences
for expressing something that we feel is objectionable. And by
the way, you can probably find a lot of people
who are fine with that over say neo Nazism, right,
or something that is genuinely extreme and or violent and
(33:05):
or indisputably hateful and not in the American tradition. But
there are people who wanted to do this about do
you believe a man's a man as a woman's a woman.
Do you want to do this over pro lifers? Do
you want to do this over gun owners? Donald Trump supporters,
all kinds of different the whole basket of deplorables. By
the way, I point out that like Hillary Clinton when
she said that, look, we're used to having political figures
(33:27):
say my opponent is an idiot. That was kind of
a slight turning point because that was the first time
I can remember a presidential candidate saying, you know, my
opponent's supporters are idiots. Your fellow Americans are idiots because
they're supporting somebody who's not me, right, that struck me
as a I know it's an infamous phrase, but I
think it represented something significant there this shift. Look, I
(33:48):
hope the legacy of Charlie Kirk is a thousand young
people just kind of like them, who are know what
they believe in, aren't afraid to say what they believe in, forthright, cheerful, funny,
and eager to interact with people who don't agree with
them and walk away with a handshake and say, Okay,
we don't have to agree with everything, but I'm glad
(34:08):
you listened to me, and I'm glad I had a
chance to listen to you. I hope that's the legacy.
I'm not sure that's going to be the legacy. I
think there's a lot of people who may look at
this and say, well, Charlie Kirk did his very best
to engage with the left and to make his arguments
and to do so in a respectful manner, and he
got shot for it, and he got killed for it.
And it's very hard to fight. I don't want to
(34:29):
I don't want to blackpol everybody. I don't want to
tell it, you know, but like this, this is really
dark and it's just an observation that like they could
do with Charlie Kirk, they could do it with anybody.
You know, I don't do a lot of public speaking,
but like you know, most of people in my profession
end up doing some sort of public appearance in one form,
Sea Pack, you know, the National Conservative. There's all kinds
(34:50):
of get togethers that are like this. And so it's
just a dark, depressing day. And hopefully this is not
lead to cycles of violence and more stuff like that.
But it really feels like yesterday feels like some sort
of as somebody was emailing around or something. You know,
this fields a little Archduke Ferdinandy. This this sense that
(35:11):
like if we may look back at this and say,
this was a really bad moment that set off dominoes
that could get very dark. So you know, hey, it's Thursday.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Yeah, well it's also nine to eleven. And the fact
that these events now kind of coincide here is particularly chilling.
The fact that we saw some of the reaction that
we did on the left and hopefully it's the far left,
tells us that we're a long way away from ever
having a nine to twelve type of America again, where
(35:44):
everybody was unified in their shock and horror and resolved
to do what we needed to do going forward, and
so and the other thing. And I don't want to
draw too many parallels here, because there's obviously a lot
of differences. But when people believe that what you believe
is so unacceptable that they're willing to do the unthinkable,
(36:05):
we have a major problem. And that problem has to
be dealt with. And I think despite the mocking, the
widespread mocking at the left date about Prairie yesterday, it
does begin with prayer. Begins with prayer for Charlie Kirk's
widow and his children. And this country, this country is
divided in an ugly way right now, and it's not
gonna fix itself in a hurry, and it's going to
(36:28):
take a lot of peaceful dialogue. It's going to take,
I think, a return to a deeper religious life in
this country. But it can't keep going the way it is,
or we're going to be in a real, real world
to hurt soon.
Speaker 4 (36:41):
Having steered us into the darkest directions of any episode
we've ever done ever, Greg, let me now kind of
try to pull out of the ditch and just kind
of observe that because I did, I too had made
that thought, and I wrote something for an R today
kind of thinking about the You know, it's a very
different scale. There are a lot of life differences, but
in the end, these are both acts of violence against
(37:03):
a person just for being an American by someone filled
with hate. And I think, you know, there are some
emotional pair of the shock, You know that the way
you feel. And the thing is is that we did
see if it wasn't a perfect nine to twelve moment,
you could find a lot of people who were saying
things that were appropriate, and I think, you know what
(37:23):
the other weird things like it was like seeing the
New York Yankees have a moment of silence for Charlie Kirk,
and people who were there were saying they'd never heard
the stadium so quiet. The sheer number of people who
are not that, who we don't even think of, pro
athletes and various other celebrities who've put out statements. I
(37:43):
was really pleasantly surprised to see on my personal Facebook
page a bunch of folks I know who are left
of center and not particularly fond of what I write,
but who said, you know, I didn't agree with anything
Charlie Kirk ever said, but he didn't deserve that at all.
That he's a husband and a father, and nobody deserve
to be a widow, No one deserves to be an
orphan because of a political disagreement. So I think there
(38:05):
are a decent number of people on the left who
are shocked and horrified by this, And so if it
wasn't a nine to twelve moment, there was more. We
shouldn't forget the examples that were there. And I do
think the vast majority of Americans are indeed shocked and
horrified by this and would like to see never never,
like to be happy to never see an act of
political violence in this country ever again. So maybe there's
(38:26):
some glimmers of hope there on what is otherwise just
a really horrific week and a horrific The nine to
eleven anniversary is just the cherry on top. It just
is that sense of we live in a world where
we can't control things, but sometimes that lack of control
manifests and just just terrifying, awful, outraging, deeply depressing ways.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
And cling to the one who is in control. But
I also would encourage people to think about and pray
for those who did lose loved ones on nine to eleven.
This day is incredibly difficult for them. I've interviewed people
who really got out of the towers. We've interviewed a
firefighter who was actually underneath the rubble when the South
tower collapsed and somehow miraculous as they survived. Just a
(39:09):
couple of weeks ago, one of the pilots who was
sent up from here in the DC area to interdict
any other planes that were coming, and he wasn't even armed.
There weren't even many missiles on the plane, so we
would have had to basically give his own life to
ram into the airliner had to come in. So don't
forget the heroes, don't forget those who are hurting today
as well. But right now the whole nation, most of
(39:31):
it anyway, stunned and hurting and hoping we can go
in a different direction soon. So Jim, thanks as always
for your time and your thoughts, and we'll do it
again tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (39:39):
See then hopefully back to more of our usual affair
on Friday. Hey, everybody, Friday is almost here.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
Jim Garretty, National Review. I'm Greg Corumbas Radio America. Thanks
so much for being with us today. Please subscribe if
you don't already. Also follow us on x and we
will see you on the Friday edition of the Three
Martini Lunch
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