Episode 2: Johnny Dawkins

Adam Stanco’s in-depth interview with University of Central Florida head coach Johnny Dawkins. They discuss playing for Coach K and taking Duke to new heights as he became National Player of the Year. Dawkins takes you through his NBA journey, beginning as a No. 10 pick and even what it was like to compete in a dunk contest with Michael Jordan. He reveals the relationships he built with various NBA coaches and later details his own transition from a player to a coach. The longtime Duke assistant explains what it’s like to spend time inside the Blue Devil program and tells the remarkable story of how a friendship with the late great Derek Smith came full circle when Smith’s son was a star recruit being coveted by Duke. Dawkins also lays out some of the challenges he faced as head coach at Stanford and offers advice to up-and-coming coaches.
Find out more at 40YearCoach.com and follow us on Twitter...

Adam Stanco: @naismtihlives

40 Year Coach Podcast: @40YearCoach

Johnny Dawkins: @Coach_Dawkins

Sydney Smith: @SydGSmitty

Episode Transcript

(00:15):
This is the forty Year Coach Podcast, and we'd love for you to check
out our stuff forty year coach dotcom. A lot of great services for
up and coming coaches, coaches who'vebeen around for a while, and anyone
who wants to get involved in thecoaching community. O Our guest today is

(00:36):
a very special man. One ofthe greatest players in college basketball history,
a two time first team All AmericanNaismith Player of the Year in nineteen eighty
six, left Duke because the school'sall time leading scorers number twenty four.
Jersey was retired by Duke nine yearNBA career that spanned the Spurs, Sixers,
Pistons, and of course was anassociate head coach at Duke for many

(01:02):
years, plus head coach at Stanfordand now the current head coach at the
University of Central Florida. Johnny Dawkins, Welcome to the forty Year Coach Podcast.
Hey, thank you. I'm excitedto talk to you about about so
many things, but I always wantto take it back to the beginning,

(01:22):
when when things first started out.So you're a high school star in the
DC area, macklen Catholic. Howmuch thought at that time did you have
to coaching and your future beyond actuallyplaying basketball all At that time, I
had no idea I would get intocoaching. You know, I didn't know.

(01:42):
I love the game. I alwayshad a passion forward ever since I
picked up the basketball. I justdidn't know I would end up continuing to
teach it as as I grew older. But I'm very happy that I've had
the opportunity to do that. Whenyou were a star at the high school
level and Duke comes calling, andDuke at that time, wasn't that the

(02:04):
powerhouse that we know now, theperennial powerhouse that we know it is now?
Uh, what were your first impressionsof coach k when when he started
recruiting you. Well, you know, I'm big on relationships, and uh,
the thing that I noticed right awayis that he was willing to take
the time to develop that and andthat's something that that really stood out to

(02:25):
me. He got on me earlyin the process and they recruited me hard
for the entire time, and Ialways appreciated that, you know, and
uh, you know, I wantedto go to a place where I felt
that that connection with the coach andwith the institution what was it about his

(02:46):
personality and the connection that you hadthat that made you finally, you know,
sign your name on the dotted line. Well, he's a straight shooter,
and uh, he just explained hisvision for you know, what he
thought the program could become. Anduh, you know I really liked it.
You know, you know, Ibelieved in him. At that time
we had developed a relationship good enoughwhere you know, I believe didn't know

(03:07):
what he was saying and wanted tobe a part of what you wanted,
you know, try to accomplish.You know, at Duke University, many
people credit you and the core groupthat you came up with as completely changing
the culture at Duke. The youguys came in eleven and seventeen at your
freshman season, twenty four and tenis a sophomore, twenty three and eight

(03:30):
as a junior, and then theseason that that changed everything probably for the
program historically thirty seven and three asa senior. As I mentioned, Nay
Smith player the year. But thething that's interesting to me, in addition
to that eighty sixteen just you know, breaking the ceiling, if you will,
was that that that year featured ahost of players who've gone on to

(03:53):
play significant roles in the coaching andexecutive basketball community. So Mark Allery,
assistant coach at Navy at one point, coach is au U. David Henderson,
former head coach at Delaware. JBillis of course we all know for
his work as a basketball analyst,but also coached the Duke. Tommy Amaker,
head coach at Harvard, Danny Ferry, former GM for the Cavs and

(04:15):
Hawks, Billy King, former GMfor the Next six and Sixers, and
Quinn Snyder, head coach of theUtah Jazz. Plush yourself. What do
you think it was about that groupin particular that's led to so many of
those guys going on to play majorroles in the coaching and executive professionals.
Well, I think I think allof them loved the game. Uh,

(04:36):
they all had a real healthy respectfor the game. And they all,
you know, I think we're verycompetitive and uh and you know, and
that I think that combination of youknow, being so competitive and loving the
game there's really you know, youknow, there're not many outlets for that.
I mean, coaching is one,but being an executive in the NBA
as another, Being an analysts another. And I think you've seen that,

(05:00):
you know, from that group ofplayers, they all kind of chosen those
paths, and uh, I thinkthat's good for the game. I think
what they've done has been good forthe game as well. While you guys
were in school at Duke, obviouslyagain you're sort of development, not just
as a player, but obviously asa group and as a program just was

(05:23):
going up leaps and mounds each year. It seemed like that you were there,
Um, what was changing within theDuke program and what were you learning
from from coach k On on adaily basis? Well, I mean,
I think we were learning, youknow, just the importance of preparation.
We were learning how important is toalways be ready for whatever the task kids

(05:44):
at hand in our case, youknow, just very competitive basketball during that
time, and so every day wasevery day was a major learning experience,
you know, about how to win, you know, how to approach winning,
how to you know, approach notjust winning in basketball, winning in
life, you know, And it'sit's always a tutorial going on about how
to you know, how to getbetter. And I think, you know,

(06:05):
we all took that to heart andevery day we grew, you know,
we grew as individuals and we grewcollectively. How much of what practices
look like on a daily basis filmsession? The game has changed so much
since then, But in terms ofthe structure that you talk about, how

(06:27):
much do you still implement on adaily basis? Well, I take a
lot of what we learned, youknow, of course, uh from my
experiences that do can my experiences youknow under coach k and for us.
I mean, you know, wewant to practice, you know, be
tougher than games. So we wantto you know, we wanted to be
intense. We want we want alot of energy and enthusiasm out there the

(06:48):
entire time. And the same thingin film sessions. Even though you're not
moving, you're still working mentally.You still want our guys engaged to.
We want our guys, you know, locked in so that when we are
scouting some one, we're going oversomething to get better, watching practice or
watching some film on whatever it maybe, that our guys are growing from
that experience. And uh so youknow, we want everybody, you know,

(07:09):
we always say we want everybody toyou know, you know, to
be going and maxed out all thetime, maxed out on the court,
and maxed out, you know inthe classroom. Max we wanted we wanted
to max themselves out in the filmroom. Uh, that's the standards we
want. You know, every placehas to start with standards, and we
want to high standards possible for ouryoung student athletes. As a young student

(07:30):
athlete, you were also an exceptionalplayer, good enough to reach the NBA
level. So you're drafted number tenin the eighty six draft. Brad Doherty
goes number one, and and andLen Bias, an old high school friend,
Um the goes number two. Um. I just I have to ask

(07:50):
um your relationship with with Len Bias. I'm a most curious for people who
were around him. Just what madeLen Bias so special? Um? And
what did you think about his futureat that time? Oh? Well,
I mean I think what made Lennyspecial was, you know, he had
an unbelievable work ethic. You know, you know, I watched Lenny's game

(08:13):
just grow by leaps and bounds overthe years from you know, high school,
you know, through college, andit was amazing to see that.
And it was fun for me becauseI like to see you know, young
you know, student athletes get betteras the years go on and he was
a shining example of that of whathard work could do for you. And
so he really improved every year,just so him adding more into his game,

(08:35):
you know, each year, eachseason, he was gaining in confidence.
And I think he was going toend up being one of the greatest
players of playing in the NBA,you know, I really do. I
think, Uh he was on thattype of trajectory with his skill set,
with his size, uh, youknow, the ability to shoot the basketball
the way he could, but healso was, you know, very athletic
around the rim, had a goodunderstanding of the game. He had all
the qualities to be, you know, one of the greats in that game.

(08:58):
And it's just sad that he's aroundto uh and and and and you
know, none of us have beenable to see what he could have become.
Yeah, the only silver lining isthat just the whole generation of kids
grew up, um, you know, fearful of of getting involved in in
drugs and uh, you know,just just such a great individual from from

(09:20):
all accounts, and obviously you're oneof them. But he's certainly changed so
many lives and UH could have beenso it was already such a special player
and it's uh remarkable to think.No, No, you make a good
point. You mean the fact thathe has impacted so many lives by tragedy

(09:41):
that uh, you know, there'snot time that comes around, you know,
around the NBA draft that that youknow, I don't think about you
know, Lenny, I think abouthim all the time, but especially when
you know the draft comes around,because shortly thereafter was when uh, you
know, the tragedy took place.And I think a lot of people,
as you mentioned before, uh,you know, know the story or have
heard the story, and it's probablypreventing a lot of young people from from

(10:07):
from some tragedies themselves. And soyou know, in that regard, it
has you know, I had apositive effect on some young people in a
generation of young people that came behind. Yeah, and it's really incredible.
I mean, you look throughout yourcareer, how many people that that you've
interacted with, and and and thelives you've changed and who I'm assuming as

(10:28):
we run through this, the amountof people who have who've changed your lives
and who's changed your life, andit's it's wild. You never know how
a story is going to play out. And yeah, so That's one of
the remarkable things about about the wholeLembis story. Um, you get drafted
by the Spurs and played for BobWeis and eventually Larry Brown. Um,

(10:52):
I'm so curious as to the LarryBrown experience and just your NBA experience early
on. Just how different was thecoaching and the experience as you reached the
NBA level as it compared to whatyou were dealing with daily in college.
It's two different, two different games, and so you know, you have
to literally learn another way of beingsuccessful. Really, I mean when you

(11:16):
when you're thinking about the NBA backthen, I mean it was a post
dominated game. Uh, you know, where isolation basketball and you know,
and so you had to really makethose adjustments to your game to fit with
what was going on. And incollege, of course, it was you
know, we were coming from motionofferense, uh, ball movement, body

(11:39):
movement, you know, you know, trying to space the floor as best
we could. Kind of what yousee happening now in the NBA. The
NBA's kind of transforming into playing theway we used to play in college.
And so that's kind of interesting tosee. But you know, for us
that that was probably the difference.And then with Larry Brown, I mean
it was a great you know,great coach, I mean, great,
great teacher at a game. Youknow, I learned a lot from him,

(12:01):
you know, uh by being apart of part of his team for
a year. Uh just uh,you know, the way we approached the
game on the professional level. Ithink he he helped my transition by being
a part of the organization for thattime that I was there, and uh,
brother, thankful for that. Peopletalking about Larry Brown playing you know,

(12:22):
his mantra playing the game the rightway? What exactly does that does
that entail? I think what Ithink what he means by that is I
think we as players all got anidea like a young person at some point
knows a difference between right and wrong, just like a player understands, you
know, playing the right way andthen in that playing the right way.

(12:43):
I think we all understand it ata certain age. And I think for
him it means understanding that it's ateam game and that you know, it's
it should be a shared experience.I think he's very big on that understanding,
you know about you know, justshot selection and in that being selfish
with the basketball, you know,searching out great shots, you know,
not just settling for you know,mediocre shots. I think he talks about,

(13:07):
you know, understanding the importance ofdefending, that defending as a team
thing and it brings teams together,and that he wants you defending you know,
five guys defending is one. Youknow, those are things that I
think he means by playing the rightway is just understanding that I like,
you understand right from wrong. Ata certain age, you understand, you
know, the right way to playingthe wrong way to play our game.

(13:30):
And now he wants you playing,you know, a way that honors our
game and that and that really takesfrom our game. And that's that's sharing
that experience and doing everything with teamfirst mentality. And if you put that,
you know, team first mentality there, you're not gonna make brain me
mistakes on the court. We thinkabout team first mentality with him. You
also think about his development of pointguards and that's also what he's gained such

(13:52):
a great reputation for through the yearsand working with point guards as a formal
point guard himself very successful at NorthCarolina. And then you know, in
the aba um in terms of youractual point guard skills. What kind of
things that he did he teach you? Well, I mean he told me
you know that you know really thatthat at the point guard spot, you

(14:15):
know, you gotta can take yougot to take control of the team.
Uh. You have to you know, you have to be the face of
what's going on out there on thefloor. Uh. And and and about
setting the tone defensively that Uh,you know, I have to come out
every die and I have to seta tone with a certain amount of energy.
How hard I worked the other pointguard and compete against that guy where
things that were going to be veryvery important. You know, I had

(14:35):
to understand what we were running.I had to had to know every position
on the floor so I could makesure everybody was in the right place.
And like I said, I hadto have a presence on the floor.
You know. I had to bekind of connected with him and and thinking,
which means that the idea of whathe wanted to do at certain points
in the game, and almost likeread his mind, like Okay, he
wants me to run this set,or he wants us to call this defensive

(14:56):
alignment coming out of time out,or or you know, while coming off
of a free throw and uh,basically be connected with what he wanted out
there on the floor. It's goingto be very important. Uh. In
nineteen seven, you participated in theNBA Dunk Contest and Michael Jordan won that
that dunk contest. Um, whatdo you remember about about that day and

(15:18):
being part of such an iconic event. Uh, you know what it was
special to be to be a partof, you know, the All Star
weekend is great and uh and actuallybeing to participate in it was was was
even better. So I really enjoyedit. Of course it was you know,
Michael Jordan was amazing and he's agreat dunker. And but you know,

(15:41):
for me, it was my firstchance on that, you know,
on that type of a stage,and and I just I learned a lot
about preparation. And you know,I always pride in myself on being prepared
for every situation, nine encounter,you know, in the quarters, as
as a basketball play, as acompetitor, and uh, you know,
for that event. You know,it's been a tough year for us,
as you know, first year woulddispurged. We had we hadn't won very

(16:03):
much. And I just come offwinning thirty seven games. And I wasn't
going to approach half that. Hell, by the time we were at the
All Star break, we had probablywon about ten eleven twelve games, So
it was a long year and thatI hadn't faced in a long time in
my career playing basketball. So Umy mind really wasn't on the contest as
much as h as it should havebeen. And not saying I would have

(16:27):
won it, because like I said, Michael and the rest of the competitors
were amazing, but uh, Ithink I could have done a better job
if I had prepared myself better forit. So I use that all the
time as a as a way togrow in this profession that I'm in now
and and from the rest of mycareer as a player, because I always
said I would never be, youknow, not prepared, because I didn't
think I did a good job ofyou know of that, and you know,

(16:49):
before I went to that All Starevent. It's it's interesting that you
mentioned that. So usually people talkabout lack of preparation something that they are
impacted by for a particular game ora season, or you know, a
stretch of games or a series.But in your case, you're talking about

(17:11):
it's a memory that you have lackof preparation even for an All Star Games
strictly because you guys weren't winning.When you think about that that time period
of your life, there's also hasto be some lessons I'd imagine in the
idea that you go through a stretchwhere you're really not winning games, and
what you glean from that, especiallybecause of the success you ended up having

(17:36):
in college, What ultimately did youlearn from What do you learn? I
guess is a better way to phrasethat. What do you learn from going
through a stretch in the NBA whenevery night you step on the floor there's
a good chance that you're not goingto win that game. Well, man,
you learned that winning is hard.I mean, it's simple as that
sounds. Winning is hard. Andteams that do it consistently, they make

(18:00):
it look like it's easy and that, oh, this is just how it
should happen, but it doesn't.And whenever, you know, the thing
I've been fortunate is I've been apart of winning programs and I've been a
part of losing programs. I tellpeople that all the time, you know,
unfortunate because I've had a chance tokind of study both and doing that,
you know, certain habits that youget when you on losing teams that

(18:22):
you have to try to guard against. And one is just your overall your
energy and your effort. You know, you think you're giving, you know,
as much effort as you can give, but you still have more in
your tank. And that's something thatI think a lot of losing teams fall
into it think, oh, I'mgiven everything. No, that's more you
can give. It's always more youcan give. And that's something that I
think when I was a part ofteams that weren't winning, I look around

(18:44):
and like, we we got tobe able to give more. We have
to be able to do more andu and that was always difficult until we're
able to turn it around and thenwe understood that was one of the things
you learned that you know and thenthe other thing you learned that both are
habits. I mean, winning isa happit. It's like losing it.
Once you fall into that habit oflosing multiple games in a road, you
don't snap out of it. Youknow it can lead to a lot of

(19:07):
tragedy. You know, from thestandpoint of you know a season, you
know it can it can just derailyour entire season. You have to understand
that you have to change that andcreate a new habit as soon as popular
new habits as winning, and youhave to find a way to get that
done. And uh and and soyou can start a new habit of winning,
it's like you started one of losing. So the two things, your
energy and your effort has got tobe you know, greater. You know,

(19:30):
it has to be a greater senseof urgency one and two you know,
you know both are habits, andso you want to make sure that
you you know, you want towin habit, not to losing habit.
And so you have to snap thosethings when it happens right away. You
can't wait. It can't linger forweeks and months where you're all seeing that
winning. But a few games orhandful of games that happens, you can

(19:52):
end up going down that road consistentlyfor the rest of that season unless you
have some guys that are strong enoughto really uh. You know, whether
it's the leadership from the coaching standpointor from a player's perspective that can get
those guys refocused. Well, allall teams face adversity, regardless of what
the adversity is so of those thosetwo things that you mentioned, how did

(20:15):
you find the great coaches that youhave been around in your career, how
have they gotten better energy and focusedfrom their players and how have they turned
winning into a habit? Well,the great coaches I play with One,
like I said, preparation has alwaysbeen at the highest level. Two,
you know, there's a there's alevel that they put that they perform at

(20:37):
and they expect everyone in the organizationto perform at. That's of a championship
ilk. So you know, tome, it's like they winning championships every
day, not because they play thegame, but because of how they practice,
how they how they how they howthey study the film, how they
how they you know, just team, how the team meeting went. Everything
that they do is at a championshiplevels or is reflected in everybody of work.

(21:02):
And so when they play, that'sjust a reflection again of what they
do on a daily basis, howthey live their lives. And that's the
thing that I saw that stood outto me most With the guys that are
you know, that consistently win andhave had success. It's a way of
life. It's not just a youknow, game time thing that they're gonna
do and they're gonna win. It'sa lot more that goes into that besides

(21:25):
just that game. And uh,it's that culture that's established that that permeates
that you eventually you're part of thetrade for for Mo Cheeks. So I
think a lot of people forget inNBA history. So you know Sixers fans
that are upset that Mo Cheeks leftthe Sixers. Um, well, they

(21:47):
don't have you to blame. Butyou're part of the trade there. But
you become part of some talented Sixersteams playing for for Jim Lyneham, Um,
eventually a little bit Doug mo andthen Fred Carter later. But um,
you played four gym lineham and withCharles Barkley. Uh, what are
some of your memories from those uhthose Sixers teams in the late eighties early

(22:10):
nineties. My first year there wasone of the one of my best experiences
in NBA as a as a competitor. You know, we won the we
won the Atlantic Conference. Uh,we beat Boston off by one game that
year and they had a terrific teamwith Bird, Paris McHale, DJ you
know, Dennis Johnson, Danny Ames. They were really good and uh so

(22:33):
to win that that conference, towin that division that year was was was
great. You know, we wonfifty plus games that first season, and
Charles was amazing, you know,Charles to me, you know, he
was me talking about a dominant player. I mean, he just imposed his
will on team at the team,and uh so that's probably the funnest team
I'd been on the NBA. Imean, we're in the closest team I

(22:53):
had that i'd been on in NBA. You know, I actually mirrored,
you know, collegiate team to me, and uh and so I really enjoyed
that experience and that's probably you knowwhat I remember most. And then,
uh of course I end up gettinginjured shortly thereafter, so that you had
Torol ACL so things changed. Butuh but it was a it was a
good run. You know. Ienjoyed that team, and I thought we

(23:15):
had a lot of proms. Ithought we had a potential to compete for
championships with that team, and unfortunatelygot broken up, you know, after
the ACL care and uh, youknow, when we were in a different
direction before we get into some ofthat stuff with the injury. I'm just
curious. So with jim Lynam heseemed to have a good relationship with with

(23:36):
Charles Barkley, what kind of thingsdid you witness between the relationship with those
two and anything you may have learnedfrom from watching them on you know every
day. Well, No, Jimmy'sJimmy's a great people person, great people
person, very knowledgeable guy, reallygood understanding of the game. And uh,
yeah, and Charles had had aspecial relationship. And I think it's

(23:56):
important for your especially for your coach, your best player, to have that
type of relationship, you know.And uh, and they had it,
And uh, I think that wasdeveloped. I think that trust was just
developed over time of getting to knoweach other, spending time and practice and
spending some time out of practice.Uh. But but coach Ainum always has
some you know, just some goodthings to say, so good wisdom about

(24:18):
how you know how the game shouldbe played. And and uh and and
I say, he Charles connected,and I think that made for a really
good, you know relationship. What'ssomething about Charles Barkley the rest of the
world doesn't know. Uh. Ijust don't think the world really knows how
generous a man he is. Uh. You know, I've been in you
know, places with Charles and youknow, a restaurant for instance, and

(24:41):
you know, all of a sudden, the bill may come at all the
different tables in the restaurant. He'spaid for everybody. I mean, he's
just that type of guy. Thingsthat you know, you wouldn't know.
It's very is a you know,a big heart, very generous guy,
and that's something that you know peoplemay not know. Did you see all
this coming in ms of his futureas a as a wonderful broadcaster? You

(25:03):
know, I didn't. I probablyshould have because he was so good in
the Philadelphia area and a lot ofthe broadcasters and and uh that you know
they were you know, of coursewon the interview him and he'd always had
you know, some amazing things tosay, like he does, like he
still does now. So I shouldhave probably seen him transitioning into that you
know, you know, earlier,but but I didn't. But he's been

(25:25):
he's been great, been great forour game, you know, his candor
his approach to it, and uh, he's been good for our game and
I think good for viewers. Yeah. I always talking about important it is
to see analysts who who are honestand honesty seems to go such a a
long way amongst entertainers. People arejust drawn to people that are that are

(25:47):
honest and true to themselves, andhe always feel that way with with Charles
Um. Another guy who who youplayed with that impacted so many people is
Derek Smith. And Derek Smith obviouslyhas a connection to this podcast because his
daughter, Sidney Smith, is partof the forty year Coach team and it's

(26:11):
a great young woman and wanting toprops to her, but also just talking
about her father and Derek Smith whoplayed on the Sixers with you, and
the stories about Derek Smith as aas a teammate, I've heard many of
them, Um. But for thosewho don't know me and Derek Smith died
tragically is the age of thirty four, and there's a lot between the relationship

(26:33):
you had with Derek Smith that thatcarries on even to this day, and
I want to get into that.But just as a person first who for
people who don't know who was DerekSmith? Uh, Derek Smith was one
of the best men I ever met. I mean, just a unbelievable guy,

(26:55):
huge heart, you know, andjust like I said, does things
that that stand out to me.He was like a big brother, I
think to a lot of us onon a team. I mean, he
was the guy that you that youturn to, uh, spend time with,
you know, probably the most.You know, he's the guy that
probably got most of the guys together, you know on the team. Uh.

(27:15):
It's a real team guy and likeI said, a huge heart and
uh one of them. You know, it's one of the best guys,
one of the best men that Ihad never that I'd ever known. So
so you had from all that I'veread and understood, is that knowing Derek

(27:37):
Smith also meant that you knew thathis children, uh Sydney and Nolan,
and that Nolan was such a partof the the NBA family. So what
was your relationship like Nolan Smith atthat time? Um, you know,
before his passing and then and thenafter you know, his his unfortunate passing.

(27:59):
Well, you know, Nolan wasso young when I when I when
I met Derek, he was hewas he was literally he was teaming you
know here talking about under five yearsold. So, uh, just watching
him grow up. And Derek justso like any dad, just so proud
of him and Sitney both he andSydney just so proud of him, and
I you know, go by thehouse and sit down and spend some time
with Derek and get to see themrunning around a little bit in the house

(28:22):
and and uh, you know it'sneat to see him. And of course,
uh, you know, as whenDerek passed, just stayed in touch,
you know, wanted to stay intouch and making sure that that everything
was okay, you know with Nolanand Sydney and and and Monica of course
Derek's wife, and just you know, just being you know, friends and
like we were before, and uh, just staying in touch and kind of

(28:45):
watched his watch his career progress,Uh, watched kind of how he start
to evolve as a player, andand uh was always in touch during that
time. And of course we hada chance to recruit him, and and
I was a no brainer. Youknow, you look at him and who
he is, and you look atyou know, what he's come from,
and I mean, you know,it was just a no brainer that you

(29:07):
know he would be you know,like said, apple, don't fall too
far from the tree. I mean, just his father was a great man,
and uh, and so you knewwhat someone was going to be you
know, similar, you know,and in some regard, and and he
has been known has been, youknow, a terrific human being. You
know, you know, he caresabout other people. He is he has

(29:27):
that word empathy, you know,you can empathize with others and uh,
which it's a great quality. AndI think he helped can help to bring
the best out of others because ofthat. And Derek was able to do
that same thing. So for me, it's kind of reliving some of those
things when I see Nolan. That'sfascinating. What were some of those uh
official visits? Like since you kneweach other? So, well, what

(29:51):
do you talk about? Um asyou're as you're sitting there quote unquote recruiting
him, I was just you know, just telling our story, talking about
our program, letting them know whowe are. And here, of course
he knew me by then. He'scalling me uncle, uncle, uncle Johnny
before well, uh, well beforethat anyway. So he so he had

(30:11):
followed us some and uh I stillwanted him that, you know, had
the full experience. It's only fairthat he has the same experience of anybody
else that's being recruited to Duke andso and we recruited him. Coach k
recruited him, of course, andand and and developed a great relationship with
him. I thought that was goingto be very important because as much as
I had known him and we havea terrific relationship, you know, I
wasn't the head coach. So it'simportant for you know, Coach Kay to

(30:34):
get to know him and devout thatrelationship. And he did, Coach Ky,
you know, recruit him and spenttime with them, and and uh,
and of course they grew together,and I had had a wonderful experience.
Yeah, it really is a remarkablestory. Um. When you when
you finish your BA career, youobviously, as we're talking about, you
know, you go on to this, uh, you go on to Duke,

(30:57):
but you weren't at a coach rightaway. So when you go back
to the school in nineteen ninety six, how do you start to work towards
your career as a life beyond professionalbasketball. What was the beginning stages of
that, like just in nineteen ninetysix when you head back to do well?

(31:18):
When I first went back, uh, you know, I took a
year and a half off, youknow, I've been traveling and playing ball,
you know, all my life,and I wanted to spend some time
with my family. I had ayoung family, and I wanted to spend
some time with my wife and mychildren. And uh, you know,
about a year and a half wentby. You know, I'm like,
Okay, now what's next for me? And I made a couple of calls,

(31:40):
and I made a call to Coachk of course, and a great
talk with him and a leg directorabout you know, potentially being an athlet
director. You know, I puta call into the Spurs and and and
coach Papa Bitch at the time andmaybe exploring you know, getting into the
NBA at some capacity, and uh, you know, he was very open

(32:00):
to that as well. And soI'll always be appreciative of him, you
know, doing that for me.And you know, ultimately I chose to
to uh to to you know,work toward being an athletic director. Well,
six months into that program and themanagement program at Duke, uh coach
America Tommy America got the head coachmusician at Seton Hall, and Uh,

(32:22):
I had been doing the radio side, had been traveling with the team,
although you know, I hadn't doneanything other than just travel with them and
and and talk basketball with regards towhat they were doing on the court.
H you know, I had aninterest, you know, and uh I
didn't know about you know, itwas something I would be able to pursue.
But coach came to me and hesaid, you know, would you

(32:45):
be interested in coaching? And ofcourse I was like, you know,
absolutely, you know, but anytimeyour coach comes to you and ask you
that question, I think that meansthat means that's what you're getting ready to
do. So I transitioned to toa coach, and uh, I have
loved it ever since. I wasjust so happy that Coach K saw that
in me, that that that Iwould be able to give back to young

(33:07):
people. I'd be able to mentoryoung guys in our profession. And uh,
you know, I've loved it everyday. You know. I put
I'd get the same joy out ofit being an athletic director because I thought
I'd be in a position where Icould still mentor young people, you know,
on a campus. But uh,but coaching, though haven't played it
and still can be competitive and stillmentor young people. That combination has been

(33:29):
the best for me. And uh, like I said, I'll always be
grateful that he gave me an opportunityand he saw that in me to allow
me to be on the court.Now, you told me early in your
career. You um, earlier inyour career, when you're just in high
school, you hadn't given much thoughtto to becoming a coach, as as

(33:52):
your career had had developed, though, and as you had played for coach
K Larry Brown and all these othergreat coaches you line them. Um,
how much thought during even your tailinto your NBA career was there. I
mean you said you were looking toget and do you know, management or
becoming an ad But how much thoughtat all, if any was to actually

(34:14):
becoming a coach. Uh? Stillnot as much, I mean properly,
I would say, Uh, didI think about it a little, yes,
but still not as much. Youknow, I hadn't you know,
I hadn't hit me yet. AndUh, the reason why I thought about
the summits because I was always intoBRILLIANTO player development, you know, even
when I was a player before.Now you know where they have all these

(34:37):
guys on the floor working with playersnow, I was doing that from a
players perspective. Even back then,I would always, you know, come
to practice early, stay late,work with the players on the team,
the guys that wanted to get upextra shots and do extra you know,
ballham or whatever they wanted to do. I was doing that, you know,
in the off season. I wasdoing it during the season when I
was playing. So I was oneof those guys, even though I was

(34:59):
on accorded the player. I justalways wanted to get better. I always
wanted to work with guys to helpthem get better. So that's where I
had just come from. So fromthat regard, that part of the coaching
did interest me. But all theother parts of it, you know,
I'd never really thought too much aboutbecause I had been playing all my life
and something that I don't think youthink about too much when you out there

(35:22):
playing. I'm curious about that.So when you when you are actually on
the bench for the first time andno longer as as a player that's out
there on the floor, and guystalk about that adjustment all the time.
I know. I spoke to oneanalyst at one point that told me about
another basketball analyst that yeah, hestill thinks of himself as as a player

(35:45):
and hasn't really even transition, beendoing this for years and doesn't even think
about himself as an analyst, stillviews the game as as a player.
When you're there on the bench nowand as a coach. You know,
how difficult is that transition to getyour mindset even before we get into the
specifics, but just the mindset ofI'm not a player anymore, I'm now

(36:07):
I'm now a coach. There's there'sa transitions you have to make. I
mean, you have to, youknow, mentally make that transition, and
you have to realize that you canno longer go out there and demonstrate the
things you used to do. Youhave to be able to teach. And
that's when you realize that the limitof your of your knowledge I mean,
because because you may go out thereand can just go out there and do

(36:29):
something, but without any idea ofhow to tell someone else how to get
that done. And to be acoach, you have to be able to
articulate that point, not just beable to go out there and demonstrate.
You're not gonna be able to goout there and dunk every time as you
get oh, you're not gonna beable to go out there where you did
when you were younger or make acertain move the way you did, but
you have to be able to explainthat to some young person so that they
can you know, follow that scriptand they can become better at it.

(36:52):
So I have to really study thegame, learn, you know, how
to get my points across, tolearn how to you know, you know,
get you know, young people tokind of moving in direction I wanted
them to move into with regards tocertain skills. And uh, way you
can do that is continue to learnand get better at it. What else
was it about becoming a coach thatmaybe you hadn't realized when you were a

(37:15):
player or appreciated that that coaches havedone for you while they were on the
sideline. Well, I mean Iloved our game. I lived it,
you know, I did something.I lived it all my life. I
mean I couldn't get enough of it. You know, I was a gym
rat, and I didn't realize thatthe same thing can apply to coaching that
coaches. You know, they're coachesat the gym rats from the standpoint of

(37:36):
you know, are they out thereshooting and dribbling, No, but are
they in that office and studying andgoing and reviewing tape? And reading and
getting better their craft. Absolutely,and uh, I learned that, you
know, you can trans transition intocoaching and you can you can attack it
the same way I did a playerattacking you know, getting better on the
court. And uh. And that'ssomething that I didn't realize. It's amount

(38:00):
of time and I didn't realize that. You know that basketball probably is twenty
percent of what we do from afrom a coach's perspective, When you think
about you know, your students,you know in class, when you think
about you know, you know alumniaffairs, you know, doing a relations
you think about you know, appearancesto speak, when you think about you

(38:22):
know, the travel that you have, probably the actual coaching, you know,
the thirty thirty plus games you havea year, probably twenty percent of
what you do. And it's justso many other things that you that you're
responsible for. Uh. You knowwhen you are head coach that that you
have to prepare yourself for to besuccessful. And that's something that you don't

(38:44):
know unless you're in a program thatallows you to touch those different areas or
you know, when you get thrownto the worlds you signed out very quickly
when you take the head coaching position. Uh, you talk about twenty percent
is the actual coaching. So forthat other eighty percent, how much of
that when you're back at Duke,is Coach K actually instructing you on and

(39:07):
how much of that are you justlearning from watching? Oh? No,
he's the best that he's the bestat providing both for you. I mean,
of course you're always learning every dayyou go in. You know,
it's a tutorial every day that you'resitting in the room with him, or
you're on the court with him,you're on the staff meeting with him every
day. You know that's that's goingto go. But then you also in

(39:27):
a position where he allowed us togrow because you know, he allowed us
to participate in that process. Heallowed us to go and speak to donors
or or to speak to different groupsor you know, you're able to touch
every part of the program. Andwhen you're able to touch every part of
the program, you grow. Sowhen you transition to becoming a head coach
on your own, it's nothing thatyou hadn't already seen or face by being

(39:50):
by working with him. And nowyou don't realize that when you're there,
You know, you realize that whenyou're gone and you're you know, you're
throwing that curveball and someone wants youto go do something like, oh,
already done that before. I didthat when I was here as an assistant.
And so, you know, andtalking to other you know, coaches
that I know, um, youknow some of them you know hadn't had
those experiences and and uh, Ithink that gives you a little bit of

(40:14):
a head start, a little bitof an advantage and your preparation and being
prepared for, like a head coach, a head coaching job. Okay,
So on the flip side, howdifficult is that when you're a head coach
then to give up some of thoseresponsibilities and delegate that to your staff when
when it's your turn to do itfor others? Well, I think it

(40:35):
all depends on who you hire.I think if you hire the people that
you have confidence in that can dothe job, then it's not difficult to
to let them go out and anddo some of those things. If you're
not sure about, you know,the people you've hired, of course,
I think you have a tendency tokind of, you know, maybe not
delegate as much. And so theconfidence in your staff and you hire a
great staff, you should feel,you know, confident they can go out

(41:00):
and represent you very well at thehighest level. UH Sean Dockery, one
of the many talented UH Duke playersthat that came through the program through the
years, was quoted as saying CoachDawkins was like a father figure to me.
He talked to us about everything andhelped with situations on and off the
court. From a coaching view,he helped us with everything and he also

(41:22):
got us on the punishment side whenwe were doing things wrong. He's just
a great guy. I'm curious asto the relationship with with the players.
You know, there's there's um sortof a stereotype that people envision with with
Duke guys, you know that thatthey bring in that they're you know,

(41:43):
high character kids, work their tailsoff. Um, they're always so impressive
when when speaking to the media ina lot of ways, so much like
Stanford kids are. Um, whatas you're doing the player development and and
you're in it's to coach there withyou. Who's your relationship like with with
the players that you had in theBlue Devil program. No, you know,

(42:07):
I like to think I had greatrelationships with the players. Uh,
you know, haven't been a formerplayer there. I I had an understanding
of exactly what they were going tofrom the day step foot on campus and
the great day they graduated. Ithink they gave me a great advantage to
understanding how to work with them andhelp mentor them and uh, and that's
what I love to do. Anduh, I'm I really appreciate you know,
the kind words that that that Seanjust shared, because you know,

(42:30):
you know, you sometimes don't know, uh, in this profession, you
know the impact you're having until youknow, well after the young you know,
you know, I said the youngmen had left the university, and
so it's always good to hear andthat some thoughts from a player's perspective.
But but I've always loved working withthe young student athletes. I loved to
help them to develop them on thecourt, but month point, I'd love

(42:52):
to help them develop them off thecourt, you know, I think,
Uh, and that's so important foryoung people because as they transition, you
know, out of basketball into intothe world, they have to be prepared
and uh, there's some things thathave to be meaningful that happens during that
for year experience in college that Ithink puts them on that right path.

(43:12):
And those are things that we tryto do that we've done there and I
try to continue to do, youknow here at UCF is to make sure
that our kids get that foundation sothat when they do transition, you know,
out of basketball into whatever they choose, they're confident and prepare it to
be successful. Before we move onto your head coaching stops, I'm just

(43:34):
curious in terms of being a coachat two can being part of the quote
unquote Duke family, what is itthat you would tell people about the Duke
program that they might not really knowviewing it from the outside. I think
just our family oriented program is Imean there's a there's a true brotherhood there

(43:55):
where, you know where like inany family, man everybody know as a
different role in that family, butthey all every role is appreciated at the
highest level. And I think that'ssomething that that you get from it from
your Duke experience and uh and fromplaying you know, for coach Kat,
what's your best memory from the NationalChampionship? Just the whole run was was

(44:21):
was amazing for us. I mean, the opportunity to go to compete for
a National championship. It's a dreamcome true. And uh, you know,
just just getting there, you know, just that journey was. You
know, I wouldn't trade it,just east one of those games and how
much they meant and how they youknow, how that momentum belt to finally
we're actually in the final four andthen playing for a championship. I just

(44:43):
I love that journey. I lovedI loved for every kid, you know,
every young man to have that experience, because it's nothing like it.
It's something they'll carry with them forthe rest of their life. No one
Smith got a ring too, soum he got one. I didn't.
Family, I know, I know, yes, uh so Uh. How

(45:09):
difficult was the decision to, youknow, to leave Duke? And you
know, you were one of thehottest names in terms of assistant coaches just
because of your playing career, whatyou had done while you were at Duke,
not just as a player, butthen obviously what you did as as

(45:29):
a player development guy as an assistantcoach. You're you're a hot commodity.
A lot of schools are calling.How difficult was it, though, um,
to make the decision to leave andbecome a head coach? And um,
and why Stanford, Well, Ithink you know, well, of
course it's very difficult, uh believeyou know, I've been you know,

(45:50):
an assistant for a decade plus thereand and loved my experience. And of
course I really wasn't looking to movebecause I you know, I enjoyed it
that much. But that you know, at some point in time, I
mean as a as a young man, and you know, being a part
of so many special teams and beingas part of a special program, you
just you started to realize it's justtime. I mean, it's really that

(46:14):
simple. You realize it's time.And uh, you know, and and
and because the opportunity was presented itselfat Stanford, which was, you know,
a similar institution to where I coachedand and and graduated from, except
it was you know, on theWest coast, so there was really no
conflict of interest. And you're takinga position like that, you know,

(46:34):
it's just far en up away,no real conflict of interests. And uh
and and and I was ready,you know, it was it was that
time. I was forty five yearsold or so forty four, I think
forty five years old. And uhand and I said it being assistant,
you know, for for a decadeplus and and uh, and like I
said, loved it, and Ilearned so much under coach k It was

(46:55):
it was it was it was time, you know, it was just really
that simple that it was time tomove on and uh, as tough as
it may have been. And uhand and and provide an opportunity for some
younger player or younger UH coach tocome in and and I continue to you
know, to do the things thatwe had done there prior. So you

(47:16):
talk about conflict interests. I'm curiousabout that just in terms of that was
a real concern for you. Thenthe idea that uh, you'd be recruiting
the same kids I assume or orwas it other things? No, that's
that's that's pretty much it. Thefact that you know, it would be
overlapping and recruiting as much. Anduh, you know, because you know

(47:38):
you're so far, you just threethousand miles away, you all have a
different recruiting base, So you wouldn'thave those recruiting battles and those things of
that nature. You wouldn't have torun into those that often. Of course,
I mean other things that you knowthat I thought about uh in that
type of decision. That's really interesting. So, um, as far as

(48:00):
the Stanford experience, first of all, as a head coach, I've heard
other coaches talk about just the difficultiesand the challenges they face and not realizing
how different it is to move overthose six inches is they talk about,
you know, on the bench.Um, So, what are the biggest
challenges for moving from an assistant totaking over your own program? Well,

(48:22):
well, the biggest challenge is alwaysyou go from always making suggestions which you
know you can hardly ever be wronghe accountable for, to making decisions which
you can be held accountable for eachone of them. So the biggest thing
is the responsibility level that that thatgets ratcheted way way up and U you
know, so once you once youget that under control, Hey, you

(48:45):
know, I'm no longer making suggestions, I'm the decision maker. I'm the
deciding decision on each one of thesethings. Once you get that, you
know, mapped out, then everythingelse kind of falls in line for you.
You know, because you know youmake decision, you live with it.
You realize that you're not gonna makeevery right decision and uh, but

(49:05):
you know your job is to tryyour best with that and try to do
the best job you can at atmaking a decision, you know, and
being thoughtful and making sure thought outand then you just move forward with it
and uh and then other than that, you know that the biggest adjustment is,
you know you are now you knowyou're you're at the ultimate leaders So
you're actually, you know, nowyou're directing and telling people what to do.

(49:27):
You know, you're you're you're youknow you're you're giving everyone their marching
orders and uh, so you haveto be comfortable with that, you know,
and telling people you know where tobe, what to do and uh.
Where as an assistant, of course, you don't have that responsibility,
so that responsibility falls on the headcoach. So that's that's another adjustment you
alluded earlier to making sure that you'vegot a great staff around you. How

(49:51):
did you go about figuring out whois going to be making up the rest
of your staff? You have determinewhat you need. I mean, everybody
you know has a strength. Youknow, you determine what your strengths are.
And now you try to, youknow, find people that compliment who
you are and what you do.I mean, so you're looking for people
that, of course are highly qualified, and you're looking for people that compliment

(50:15):
you. And so I think you'relooking for you know, for me,
you're out there val You're looking fortrust, you're looking for loyalty, and
you're looking for aptitude. You know, people that you have a really good
understanding of the game. But youknow, there are number of people you
can look at that may have someof those qualities, but then do they
fit your personality. You have tomake sure that you know when you come
to work every day that you don'twant everybody to be like minded, everyone

(50:36):
thinking exactly like you. You don'twant yes man, people that are only
gonna tell you what you know youwant to hear, you know, and
you're to try to find that balancedby, you know, through the interviewing
process, to getting to know peoplearound the people that you're interviewing, to
try to determine if you know thatwill fit kind of who you are.
I've often heard that one of thegreat challenges to taking over a program is

(50:59):
that for the first time, youstart to get a lot of phone calls
for people asking for favors in termsof jobs. I'm not talking about other
types of favors, but just interms of getting positions and jobs within the
staff, and not just from peopleyou're connected with, but all of a
sudden, big name head coaches willstart calling you up and say, hey,

(51:20):
I have a guy I really wantsyou to, you know, bring
on as an ops guy or whathave you. How much do you have
to say no when you first takea head coaching job. Uh, you
know, an unbelievable amount of times, unfortunately. I mean it's a great
profession and because of that, there'sso many people hungry to get in and
to move up and the change positionsyou know at all times. That makes
it so difficult because you really wantto hire every one of them, all

(51:44):
of them highly recommended from people thatyou believe in. But unfortunately, there's
there's such a there's just a limitto what you can do. So,
you know, that's one of yourfirst lessons of the head coach. You're
gonna you know, you're gonna youknow, you're gonna disappoint some people right
away. I mean people that thatare you know, starving for these positions
that you're gonna have to tell andtell them no. And so, uh,

(52:06):
that's your introduction right away to makingtough decisions and tough calls. So
how do you how do you dothat with some people that maybe you're really
close with, you know, oror that assume. Oh, once once
Johnny gets a head job, I'mgonna be set up. I'll be an
assistant for sure, or I'll bean associate head coach. Well, you

(52:27):
just have to make a decision.I mean, I mean, I mean,
you have to make the phone call. You have to be professional about
it. And you're hoping for understandingwhen you when you let people down,
when you when you can't hire them. I mean, it's just really that
simple. I mean you can't.I mean you can't. You can't avoid
it. You mean, you haveto think tackle, you have to go
right, you know, meet ithead on and just hey, and you
make the phone call and unfortunately I'vegone another direction. If you've gone another

(52:51):
direction, or you're looking for somethingelse that this person doesn't divide and uh,
and you keep moving. It's allyou can do and stand for you
found success. You won the nI T twice in twenty and twelve,
twenty and fifteen. You also reachedthe Sweet sixteen in two thousand and fourteen.
Um, I think among schools nationally, I think you're looking about as

(53:14):
as as difficult a job as you'llfind. Uh what did you find was
the greatest challenge of coaching at Stanford? Well, you know, I've never
been afraid of difficult, so forme, it wasn't. I didn't never
looked at it that way because Ilike to compete no matter what, and
so uh, of course, youknow in every place has different standards and

(53:35):
and and things that they're looking forand you're just trying to provide those the
best that you can. And uh, you know, of course it was
in a you know, really goodconference in the Pact twelve, very competitive,
and there's been some perennial teams thathave been you know, perennial champions
like you know Arizona, like UCLA. As a competitor, you love that.
You want to compete against teams youknow all the time, and h

(54:00):
and dat afford us the opportunity todo that. And you know, just
uh, like I said, justit was an amazing institution. Uh,
you know, I didn't see it, you know any other ways of an
amazing institution with an opportunity to tobe one of the best programs in the
country and out our sports and nowit was the goal. The goal was
to try to you know, bringinto that type of light and uh and

(54:24):
so and I enjoyed the experience.I really did. I mean, it
was a eight year run and becauseI really enjoyed being able to to work
and compete there. The academic standardsare so high. And I'm always curious
for coaches and that have been inplaces and obviously you've experienced this a ton

(54:45):
for coaches that have been in placesin which the academic standards are so high.
Well, what's typically the process inrecruiting, especially because you're in on
kids so early, um, interms of understanding where they are academically and
also you know, getting them tounderstand where the school is from an academic

(55:06):
standpoint. How does that specifically workduring the recruiting process. Well, it's
tough for me to talk about,you know, I don't really talk about
recruiting it, you know, andwhat we have to do standard wise at
one place or another. That coachit's just that you know, they're looking
for, you know, student athletesthat fit their profile and uh, they're
out there. You know, that'sthe thing about profession. You know,

(55:28):
whatever your profile is, you canfind student athletes that fit it. Man,
your job is to make sure tobe secure those guys in recruiting,
and that becomes the things you haveto be able to do. You have
to get the kids that can impactyour program, that that fits your profile.
Well, you talk about that,UCF, you're having the opportunity to
coach your son. Your youngest son, Aubrey Michigan transfer joined the team twenty

(55:52):
sixteen. Um, it's obviously hadsome injury setbacks, But how how do
you coach your son? What's thefirst time. I've never really wanted to
coach him. Work from all thetime on his game and try to help
to develop them. But I neverreally wanted to coach him. That wasn't
my goal. It just kind ofI think we both got to a stage

(56:15):
in our careers where the timing wasright, and uh, you know,
I had a chance to you know, really uh, you know, work
with him, and and uh andI've enjoyed the experience, you know,
and some years that we may havemissed connecting because this profession takes you away
from your family a lot. Asyou know, I've been able to you

(56:35):
know, connect it, you know, in another way because he has been
here with me, and so that'sbeen Uh, that's been it's been a
joy to be able to do thatbecause not many people had a chance to
get those years back in our professionand kind of the way I've been able
to get some of those years backbecause he's been with me. And uh,
I think it's been good. Ithink it's been good for both of

(56:58):
us. And the timing, asI said before, was was was I
believe the right timing for us,and it wouldn't have been the right timing
maybe a year or two before that, but uh it is. Now.
What what advice would you give toyoung coaches that are that are first getting
their their feet wet in this profession? Uh? I think the device I

(57:22):
probably would give them this to tothe that skip steps, take it slow,
you know, and take it,you know, step by step,
and uh there's a process to this. It's like like in anything in life.
And I think patience and and thatskipping steps is the way you become
successful. And I think the otherthing would be is, uh, you

(57:43):
know, understand, you know,what's the most important thing that you're in
this profession? For and that's tohelp young people to grow and to develop.
And uh, it's important that youknow, I think you placed them
first because if their opportunities, theirtime and uh, we we all had
our time, and that's why we'recoaching and as their time now as players

(58:04):
and as our job to mentor andhelp them grow both lying off the court
and put that to forefront of everythingthat you do. Before before I let
you go, UM, I wasjust curious in terms of you know,
some of these guys that you haveworked with through the years, as we've

(58:24):
mentioned so many great coaches, UM, that you've learned so much from.
Um. Is there a common threadthat you find throughout throughout all tremendous coaches.
Uh. I think I think allof amazingly passionate people for the for

(58:45):
their sport, whatever that sport is. I think they have an amazing passion.
I think they all are you know, are really good with people.
I think they all have really goodpeople's skills. They're able to get people
on the team all you know,pulling in the same direction of working as
one on the two qualities I thinkthey have is passion and there they're great

(59:07):
and relationship building and the last questionfor you in terms of yourself, how
do you think you found you know, with the influence of all these different
coaches, how do you think youfound your own voice as as a head
coach? You know, for me, you know, like Coach k made

(59:27):
a great point when I was,you know, just getting into profession and
and you know, especially when Ibecame a head coaches, you know,
don't try to you know, beto be the best you know you you
can be. Don't try to besomeone else. In other words, you
know, I could never be him. It was like he could never be
you know, coach Night. Youknow, just like you have to be
yourself. And uh, because ifyou're not, you know, it will

(59:49):
come through people. You know theywill, they will, they will recognize
that. And and uh and that'snot the quality as you want to have,
you know, you want to do. You want people to understand that
you're you know, you're the bestperson to yourself and that you're real.
And I think they know it.They know if you're not someone else,
you know, they know if you'rethat you know, if you're trying to
be someone else, that you're not. And that's that's important to always stay

(01:00:13):
true to yourself. I think inthe coaching community everybody knows that Johnny Dawkins
is authentic. I really can't thankyou enough. One of the greatest players
in college basketball history, and youfound great success as an assistant at Duke
and then obviously as a head coachat Stanford and now really excelling with the
UCF program. Can't thank you enoughfor jumping on the forty Year Coach podcast.

(01:00:37):
Hey, thank thank you. Ireally appreciate it. You guys take
care all right, you as well, really appreciate Johnny Dawkins jumping on the
podcast again. Just an outstanding collegebasketball player and a Smith Player of the
Year in eighty six nine year NBAcareers number twenty four Jersey retired by Duke,
but more importantly, just a specialindividual and obviously again has had some

(01:01:00):
great success as a head coach atStanford and at UCF. I'm really excited
to see what he ends up doingwith that program, especially once his son
Aubrey jumps into the fold. Formore information on the forty Year Coach,
please go to our website forty yearCoach dot com. Again, there's some

(01:01:20):
great resources for up and coming coaches. Coaches of all levels, really,
and we're going to try to keepthis podcast rolling. Appreciate listening and catch
next time.