February 22, 2023 • 47 mins
On this episode of AFP Interviews Devang Desai is joined by his former EA Sports co-worker Chu Morah. The two friends caught up and discussed the rise of the EA FIFA franchise, FIFA Ultimate Team and Major League Soccer's investment in to esports.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:22):
Hello, and welcome to a footballpodcast. My name is Devangasi and I'm
joined as always by mister David Goss. David, how are you, sir?
I am fantastic. I'm excited,devang to step into your world because
you were the one who worked atEA. You are the FIFA expert.
So to talk to hear from oneof your guys, and to h to
learn a little bit as exciting.Indeed, we step beyond the computer screen
(00:45):
into the net or into the nineteenninety five movie Hackers to explain what is
coming next. I'm an I wasn'tthe ACE ORCFA guy. I did work
on a video game franchise, butI think I learned a lot coming out
of that place, and I learnedI knew coming in. It was an
eye opening experience. And Chew Moraknown as Chew Boy, now a YouTube
(01:06):
celebrity, a YouTube influencer, andthe FIFA landscape a host of multiple events.
He's really carved out his own nicheand it's crazy. David. I
feel like a couple of years ago, or maybe five years ago, even
the idea that FIFA as an esportwould be a thing I think was pine
the sky notion to a lot ofpeople, but we were kind of forced
(01:27):
into it in twenty twenty and towatch people play FIFA on TV, and
it was kind of seeing that betthat was made a few years ago come
to fruition and it was really interestingtalking to Chew about that. Yeah,
it's interesting, Dang, you talkabout it in the interview which we're about
to get to. But like alot of the angles that you and Chew
Boy talk about and are thinking about, I just never really thought about because
(01:49):
it, you know, it wasn'tmy world to make decisions on of like
will people want to watch this fulltime instead of soccer or you know,
as a supplement to soccer, andwho will people root for? And how
will people care about it? Butit's definitely grown heavily. It's definitely a
big reason. I remember people thatI knew getting into soccer and learning about
(02:09):
the game. And I think that'sstill the case. So it has a
huge place in the soccer world,whether it's instead of or just as part
of the whole organism. But it'sreally interesting to see how it's grown.
And I don't think we're even closeto there yet. I don't know where
there will be. But that's oneof the things that's fascinating about this is
(02:30):
how new it is and how muchpotential it has. Definitely, I think
the idea that you have this legionof entrepreneurs who skew younger, who know
frankly a lot more about the careerlandscape that a lot of people are trying
to operate in, and you cankind of see the people who are flailing
of it and the people who arethriving. And it's those early adapters like
(02:51):
who are leading the way. Sojust before we get to that, we
are on Patreon for four dollars amonth. You'll help us create more exclusive
content, more unique interviews one onone with some of the biggest newsmakers in
this sport that will drop monthly.Plus if you sign up before August fourth,
you'll get a very cool nineteen ninetyfour upper Deck World Cup card as
(03:13):
a special gift. Please share whatyou got or what you packed when you
open it up on Twitter at afootball podcast. All right, without further
ado, it's my interview with youboy. Welcome back to a football podcast.
(03:34):
My guest today is a content creator, host jack of all trades.
His name is Chew Mora, butyou might know him as Chew boy.
Chew what's happening? I'm not allright just I would say I'm just staying
inside, But I did you justgo outside? So that would be a
lot safely safely though right safely.Yes, I avoided all people good,
(03:57):
so very safe about that. Itreated them like they had they were the
like there were zombies. You know, that's a new thing now. I
don't. I don't make eye contactwith people out there. It's just you
go out, you get what youneed to get and you make it back
to base camp and wait for thenext chance. Even too, even in
Toronto now a while. But youcame from Vancouver, can you can?
I consider you in Toronto right now? Though I like, eat you more
(04:18):
Toronto than Vancouver. Honestly, I'velike since last year, I've already cleared
myself to be more Toronto than Vancouveras soon as I as soon as I
guy, I've been for two years, as soon as I die here in
twenty eighteen, like I just likeI went through that first summer and summers
in Toronto. Everyone that those arepretty they get pretty routing in a good
way. Um and they're a lotof fun. And as soon as that
(04:42):
hit, and you know, andI finally got to be in a city
that has basketball, which I've beenwatching a lot as much as soccer,
I guess, well not as muchas soccer. Excuse me, because I
was weirdly obsessed with that sport growingup, of course, um but that
was always my second sport. Iwas. You know, I played basketball
when I was in high school,but I never had seen like basketball games.
I've ever been in a city thathad basketball NBA games to go to
(05:04):
it all, this being the firsttime, I just went all out spent
way too much money on playoff ticketslast year. We won't talk about that,
but you know everything he saw theKawhi shot live. I mean,
that was good, that is true. I saw the Koi Charlotte. I
almost didn't go to that match becausethat game, because my friends didn't want
to go because they thought that likea hundred bucks was too much for a
(05:26):
game seven. Yeah, dude,I just I just ignored them from now
on when they talked about like playoffs, they thought one hundred bucks Canadian was
too much for a game seven,And I just was like, all,
I know what, I'm just gonnago, and it was like the best
sports moment I've ever seen in mylife. So I brought up Vancouver's and
it's because that's where you and Ifirst met in an interesting circumstance. Or
(05:48):
I was working at Electronic Arts,the maker of the FIFA video game franchise,
and you were visiting as our guest, but you had basically done my
job at EA prior to that.So I kind of wanted to start today
by asking you how you started withthe EA Sports FIFA franchise. Uh yeah,
(06:10):
So, um, I remember,this was like one thing I always
wanted to do. You know,in college, I was an industrial engineer,
but engineers kind of boring. Ifigured out once I started to do
like internships and stuff, and Iwas new in graduation and so I was
like, my two favorite things weresoccer and video games, you know,
any kind of big and not justFIFA, but like you know, college
duty, FIFA, you name it. Like, used to play a lot
(06:33):
of rock band actually, but Ialways want to work in that industry.
So you know, Um, Iwas in the US at the time.
I'm not a US citizen of majorin a Canadian so you have like this
one year visa that you get afteryou graduate from college, and you know,
after that visas done, then you'dhave to like get sponsored for like
another visa, like an H onevisa or something like that to stay in
(06:54):
the US permanently. Fortunately, mycompany don't want to sponsor me, so
I had to, you know,go to Canada. I'll go back to
Nigeria or something. So I waslike, all, you know, let
me try Canada out and let mejust go for video game jobs like nothing
but be to give jobs on thefirst job I happened to see online was
one for being the community manager forfor FIFA, the FIFA franchise. So
(07:15):
I literally that same night that Iwas told I was not going to get
sponsitive for the job, I stayedup, made a resume, sent it
off. You know, for anyonewho wants to get a foot in the
door, definitely stop people on LinkedInand trying to find their email and email
them your resume directly does work.That's how I got my foot in the
(07:36):
door. And then about a weekand a half later, I got the
job and moved up from Seattle toVancouver, and then I was the FIFA
community manager. So at that time, what year is this? This is
this is twenty twelve, This islike March twenty twelve. So how it's
where's Ultimate Team at at this pointthe FIFA Ultimate Team section? Is this
(07:58):
still just starting kind of thing oris it already going at this point?
Well, it was, I guessyou could say it was still in its
infancy. I mean it was aboutthree years old. I joined halfway through
FIFA twelve, and I guess anybody, you know, quick stumper for anyone
who doesn't know the Ultimate Team sideof FIFA all three team is like,
I guess, the Pokemon of FIFA, where like every every football player that
(08:22):
one has its own like trading cardand then you you know, you buypacks
to approve your team and then youplay against other people on like actual FIFA.
So I was hired because the marketingteam didn't really understand Ultimate Team as
a whole, like in terms oflike how to make it like mass market,
how to like understand what the communityis all about, what they talk
about, and also how to workbetter with the development team. So at
(08:48):
this time it was about three yearsinto fee FA Altima team. It was
starting FIFA nine in twelve. Itwas about three years old, but it
was still like that mode that likethe company was just like all right,
it sort of makes a lot ofmoney, but like what is it all
about? So my job was goingto be like, all right, this
is what it's like. It's funnybecause I think one of the first few
(09:09):
things people's asked used to ask mewhen I was working at EA was like,
oh, are you picking team ofa week? Or like why did
you pick that? Or like thingsthat on the outside it seemed like you
would have control, but you don'tbecause there's so many people involved in the
process, and the process is timestaking, and there's a lot of thought put
into it, and that's definitely somethingI don't think I considered when I was
(09:31):
outside those doors, but when Iwent inside there, I'm like, okay,
Like this isn't just watching some buddhisticagames on Saturday and picking it a
guy because of sustant chess, ButI asked him an ultimate team. Because
I think it took on in thein the history or the timeline of the
FIFA franchise. It became such animportant aspect, not only to the company
itself, because of what a moneymakerit was and how many people were involved
(09:56):
with because it began to shape theculture and the discourse and when we were
people who were able to begin creatingtheir own content based off of the Ultimate
team that they have for the Ultimateteam that they were creating, whether it
be from scratch and not buying packs, doing it with no money spent the
Road to glory, or people openingpacks like crazy. But you remember the
(10:16):
moment when that that kind of shifthappened and you saw that that merge maybe
from it's an EA possession and EAis going to push all this out too.
Now these guys are making all thiscontent. Let's let's go with them,
let's work together with them. Wasthat a kind of right away thing
or something that EA had to kindof talk themselves into, um, in
(10:37):
terms of the content side of things, I think it was something that was
initially started like right before I joined. I remember the first ever, you
know, we have these capture bentswhere you know, we invite YouTubers over
to record the game early and playthe game make videos for it, and
you know, this was about thishappened like three weeks before I actually enjoyed,
So you know, I had alittle a little old guy called k
(10:58):
Side hanging around. He was likesixteen or something like that. You know,
he's obviously gotten to do bigger andbetter things. But so that was
like the first ever i think captureor you know, content creator event that
they ever had. And then fromthen on I helped establish those events and
(11:18):
like established the relationship with the contentcreators influences things like that. That was
an ongoing process, and I wouldsay, you know, this was like
the infancy of like, yeah,serious YouTube content creation in general in terms
of video games, like when allthe big guys were just starting. So
this is again twenty twelve, andthen later and then I would say,
(11:39):
like when it really like hit,like all right, this is you know,
a big part of things, Iwould say, it's like FIFA fourteen.
I think m fourteen was just likethe time that like everything just took
off. Like either thirteen was probablymy favorite FIVA all twenteen, but I
think fourteen it was a mixture ofboth. It was when you know,
obviously content you know, just blewup, like the likes of like rhotor
(12:01):
Shaw managedd Game, Mary Kiss andall those kind of guys bateson as well,
but it was also the time thatlike, EA, finally like saw
FIFA Alter Team as like the mainthing in the company. I remember before
then it was kind of like,you know, those of us who were
working off people all of the team, we're just kind of those guys somewhere
(12:22):
in the office to like apparently didsome like magic and like all of a
sudden printed money and it was likecool, all right, And then I
think it was you know, Ithink like a round FIFA. I think
a year before that, I thinkwe got a new CEO. That's when
Andrew Wilson came in and he waslike, all right, he is all
about digital and so that's when thingsstarted to focus on you know, Ultimate
Team stuff like that, and thenthat led to the lots of people fourteen.
(12:45):
I think given fourteen was the firsttime the majority of people who played
FIVA actually played Ultimate Team. Andthen everything was like super you know serious,
like now we had people watching overwhat we did, and like when
we do promos and things like that, you know, people ask me when
when is the team of the season. I was like, you'd never There's
a lot of random messages as youget from random people, and it's uh,
(13:05):
it's it's time sensitive messages as well. I think it's it's the realization
that the stuff that you could hirean agency for or an outside firm forum
is being created by people who areactively playing your game for free and have
an audience of the exact kind ofpeople that you want to get on board.
(13:26):
And it connects the two those twoareas so well that it made so
much sense. And then you sawthis explosion that you mentioned too, of
these guys not only having careers offof it, but being able to do
things and visit football grounds and travelplaces that a lot of people wanted to
do. But I think for mewhen I when I started the role,
(13:46):
I think the interesting part from me, among any things to sell you highly
to is that when you left YEA, you decided to venture out on your
own and become a content creator yourself. So I want to ask you about
that process and meet that thought processin your mind. Is like when you
knew this is what you wanted todo? Uh yeah, well you know,
I guess they say, you know, if you can't beat them,
(14:07):
join them. But you know,since I was like, I had so
many roles um in the company,and then all of a sudden, I
became the influencer manager as well,and I was just kind of like,
you know, I was looking Iwas looking at what the future will look
like. I was looking at theseguys, and I'm like, they have
a way more control of their livesthan I didn't, Like, you know,
like I have, you know,a boss told me when I need
(14:28):
to show up at work, Ihave somebody teld me how much shalary I
can make. And I was lookingat these guys. I was like,
they're just I mean, they're startingout, but like, you know the
way things are going, like I'drather be on that side in terms of
control than like on my side.You know, like this isn't going to
stop, Like it's going to keepgoing, is the thinking? Right?
(14:48):
Like that's that's what I'm the pageI'm on as well, exactly. So
like this was like twenty fifteen again, like twenty fourteen everything like in like
FIFA sets had just it up andthen I was like, well, I
mean, like you just said,it's like, you know, they're average,
They're they're reaching people who like areliterally the target audience. I'm like,
(15:09):
that makes so much sense than likespending five million dollars in like a
super Bowl ad, and when youcould just give like a kid like K
Side, you know, thirty thousandor forty thousand, and you're probably gonna
reach the same people. So like, won't that just keep growing to the
point where like the K Sides orthe world are going to be paid the
same amount of the Super Bowl commercialin like ten years, is what I
was thinking to myself. I waslike, all right, you know what
(15:31):
one thing I don't like is I'mvery stubborn, so I don't like having,
you know, people telling what todo and like people tell me what
to show up. So I'm likethat and looking at the future, I'd
rather be on that side. SoI'm twenty fifteen. I think October after
the right after the launcher of Fsixteen. I wanted to make sure that
the P sixteen came out so Ididn't ditch the team or anything. I
(15:52):
decided to become a content creator.So this is where I and a crew
of others enter the picture in thetimeline, because shortly after True leaves,
the esports division at FIFA begins,and then I go to Vancouver to work
on that side of it, andthis is where I kind of wanted to
focus our conversation today too, becauseI think we mentioned the content creators and
(16:17):
the YouTubers who are well established andwho have a massive following. I mean
you mentioned Ksi. Ksi has fullygone out of the original zone he was
in and now become a figure acrossmultiple genres. And I think if you,
if you talk to anyone back inthat time, I don't think anyone
expected that, but that is wherewe are now. But I think the
question when I started at YEA,and I think it remains the question now
(16:41):
is is esports is obviously big?Esports is massive, There's millions of people
watching countless leagues and games. ButFIFA, can that be done for this
game where the equivalent is actually watchingpeople play it in real life, whereas
this is the video game version,And even though it's one of the most
massively successful games in the world,will that translate to viewership for people watching
(17:06):
the best people play FIFA around theworld. So that was the task that
we started with, and then fromthere I think it took. It's taken
many turns that I think we'll coverthem when we talk with Shoot right after
the break. Welcome back to afootball podcast. FIFA esports too. Your
(17:30):
first your first thought when this ideawas becoming less of an idea and more
of a reality, when the planswho were coming into fruition and it was
like we're going to do this,did you think highly of the idea?
What was your initial prognosis? Oh? Well, I definitely liked the idea
because it's something that you know,like I said, I left a FEVA
(17:52):
sixteen and before then, it wasn'tlike something I was thinking seriously, I
would say, yea. So Ijust like that that it was like some
thing that I've never seen before becausebeing a DYEA for four years, I
kind of had seen it all interms of FIFA. So I'm like,
oh, this is something new thatI haven't seen I experience, and you
know, yeah, I do probablywant to see competitive FIFA so it'll teach
(18:12):
me how to get better and I'llsee this entertainment, you know. Um.
I think I was worried that,like you know, as someone who's
worked that ya Um, I wouldsay my thing about the company sometimes that
they kind of, you know,they just want to go into an idea
without fully flushing it out and thinkingabout it because they just want to be
(18:33):
in the space that's gonna be thefuture. So they're just gonna jump in,
see what sticks, and then figureit out later. So that's something
I've known the company to do,so I kind of expected that, and
I think they're starting to figure outnow it's gonna I mean it's like literally
the genesis of EV sports and startingthe TVA seventeen, so three years ago,
three or four years ago. Sonow they're kind of start figuring out.
(18:56):
It's still a lot of growing pains, but you know, obviously only
get better. But I'm happy that'shere. But like you said, I
think the struggle that we have aFEV sports over you know, the counter
shrikes, the the pub gs,the Fortnites, things like that, is
that we're based off of something that'smore popular than the thing we're playing.
(19:18):
Um, so we're always going tobe I think for the long for the
long time. For a long timewas just going to be you know,
the supplement to the thing where we'rebased off of. Well, I think
now you see, during the pandemic, sports channels need to feel content and
some one of the few things thatare still going on our E sports,
and some of them involved s wordsgames, including Madden and FIEF. I
(19:42):
know that Madden Champion the guy didn'tthrow the ball the entire time in the
championship tournament, which is like crazy. It's hilarious to me, not hilarious
because I feel I know people onthat Madden team. But it's like,
on one way, it's like,Wow, the guy found a way to
beat the system, and it's supernews for it and people are talking about
it. But in another way,it's like, oh God, this game
(20:03):
is broken, and the sky ithas since exposed it on national TV,
so I could I was of twominds while I was watching that, but
I think I had the same thoughtsthat you can watch this already and it's
and even though FIFA is extremely popular, you ask anybody on the street,
and I feel like ninety percent wouldbe like, yeah, I'm pretty good
a FIFA, like I could beatyou. Like that's the way it was
said, of like, oh I'vegot game. But when you saw these
(20:26):
pros play, I was impressed.I was taking it back. I'm like,
this is insane. The ability isextremely high, but let's see if
it translates to actual viewership. AndI think the question I would ask you
is like within your audience, umduring this pandemic is A is your shot
viewership up? And B do youfeel like you are are are you as
(20:48):
are beat? Are you acting asa substitute possibly for for real footballs this
time? And maybe is this thetime for for FIFA sports. I would
say, you know, the firstquestion, yes, viewership is up usually
of this time with FIFA since it'sa yearly game. You know, Viva's
one of the few games that comesout of the year that like keeps people
interest, keeps people's interest for aboutten and twelve months. Usually the game
(21:10):
that comes out of the year.After the first three months, viewership goes
down, and viewership of Viva startsto go down around this time. But
you know, with all this pandemicstuff, things have actually been really good.
Like you probably had record breaking months, which usually doesn't happen. It
usually happens between September to December whenthe new FIVA comes out. So it's
been great. And in terms ofsubstituting for real Viva, I mean,
(21:34):
I would guess so because you're justkind of you know, I would say,
we're kind of substituting for not necessarilythe like I guess the actual playing
of football, but just kind oflike the discussion around it, you know,
like replacing what like Gary Neville wouldhave been doing. You know,
he has to wait for real football. Now he's just regurgitating like stuff about
(21:56):
like oh, like all these youknow, news sites and stuff, we're
just talking about, oh, whatis the greatest team to play in the
primary? Bula bla blom, Likewe've seen him before. Now we can
see something happening in FIFA, andlike you can interact with those actual players
right now, and you have guysplaying with content creators all the time,
which is which is something that Ithink when this started, when the Esports
(22:17):
Division started, it was like,let's let's try and involve real footballers as
well and get them to show howgood these players are who are playing the
video game, because I think that'salso something that's extremely hard to sell.
Like the average viewer if they seesomeone playing FIFA on TV, it's it's
like, how do you show themthat this person is extremely good and way
better than you are? Because Ithink that for me was something that you
(22:40):
can immediately ascertain that right when you'rewatching on the screen. But like two,
do you remember the first event wehad. Do you remember do you
have your initial thoughts going into that, because it was an incredibly big production
for the first goal around, andI think it's interesting to see where it
came from that beginning back in twentyseventeen to where it is now. Or
I think the scale, like youmentioned, is something that they've been working
(23:02):
on to find the right fit.Yeah, I think the skills definitely been
bigger. I think at first,you know, in twenty seventeen, I
guess, you know, any timewe do something for the first time,
you don't really know what to focuson. I think, you know,
I think they started they were tryingto like and this is something I still
disagree with where they They've gone awayfrom this a bit, But I think
(23:23):
at the start they were trying tosell FIFA to your mom and dad and
your brother that doesn't play video games, like anybody who is not a hardcore
fum of player. They're trying to, like, you know, make your
family members like some random random guy. So random guy walking down the streets
gonna be like, oh, Isaw this on at our screen and I'm
going to watch the now exactly right, Versus I think the best Way to
(23:47):
Go is just a cater to thepeople who like absolutely go nuts for FIFA
and want to watch and I wantto watch every time, go super technical,
super in depth about everything. ButI think the first year was just
kind of like, hey, thisis a show and there's a video and
we play and like anybody can watch, and let's make it super basic so
everybody understand what's going on, versuslike, you know, you talk to
(24:07):
the hardcore guy, you make himhappy with the show, he convisits his
friends to watch too, and you'remore lucky to get somebody to watch something
when their friend tells them instead.So I think they've gone away from that.
Of bits, they still I thinkfocus on that still quite a bit,
but I think they've gone away fromthat, and I think one thing
that's nice that they're doing now isthat, like I really have to give
(24:29):
them credit for that is um they'remaking like the players themselves feel like stars.
I think the production value around someof the things that they've done and
the way that they position the guysthat are like, yeah, you want
to be this guy you at homeon the couch and you want to be
everything starry like because this guy's livingthe life right now or you want to
be texts who's a teenager and who'sone? Everything there is to win?
(24:51):
Right like that that and I thinkthat that starmaking idea quote unquote was something
that was talked to you at thebeginning, and they hit their stride later
on in that. But I it'sit's funny because I think if they talked
about it more technically from the go, you probably would have lost some people
right away, but you would havewon the respective to people who maybe would
eat this stuff up. But Idon't know if that's enough numbers, right
(25:12):
Like, I don't know if thatthat balance could have been could have been
hit perfectly. But it's tough tostuff because but then you go to like
freaking like counterstrikes, like they don'tcare about the other people don't watch yeah,
and you tune in, You tunein randomly and have no idea what's
going on. Yeah. Well,and one thing that always upsets me about
like I was watching um I feelwould it's called exactly, but I was
(25:34):
watching the Rainbow six like finally likeMontreal and people are losing their absolute shit.
I'm like, you guys are likeit's a it's an arena that's passed
like two to three thousand people,and people are going like absolutely saying like
they're a football arena and like yellingand like screaming it's for Rainbow six.
And I'm like, and people,we don't get this because for people it's
(25:55):
like, wait this, like whywould I go nuts for this? When
I'm like, I can watch likethe actual thing and go nuts for that,
Like I can actually go watch BankUnited. So like that feels where
I feel like it feels weird topeople who watch FIFA because I feel like
one thing that we need to workon in FIFA is like when you there's
a there's a few leagues that doit really well. I have to give
a shout out to them. It'slike the Dutch League, the Eadivis and
(26:18):
the Danish League super leigua. Isthat like when we do like events,
maybe it's the location that we dothem, Like in London, like people
are really like very quiet, whichreally bothers me. But then um,
I think that's because it's not teambased because in the EEDI viz the Dutch
league, you know it's two playersfrom two FIVA problem is from a X
(26:38):
versus two players from Fine Ords.So it's like on Darby, So like
people are going nuts, but they'regoing nuts because it's I X persus Fine
Ord and because it's FIFA. Butthe added element of supporting your club that
you already support in real life andlike going at people, it gives you
that feeling that you are in afootball arena. And I think one thing
that FIFA needs to get a roundis that it needs to be more team
(27:03):
based than individuals, because you can, I feel like you only get go
so far with football if it's likefootball is a team sport. We watch
it because of teams, not becauseI mean except for maybe like the likes
of Ronaldo. Name aren't a pop, but you want to watch Ronaldo.
So like me, I'm a family, I go wherever he's going. But
you know, when it comes toFIFA, it's like all right, you
know we have the tax, youhave the MS side, but I think
(27:26):
that can only go so far.But then if it's like text the Liverpool
player text, oh my god,yeah, let's go support the Liverpool player.
Of text let's go support the torontocplayer Phil B. You know,
so the idea is like and likeyou're basically saying like pro clubs but souped
ups to that it's individual guys ona single team possibly, and then like
(27:48):
I wouldn't. I wouldn't say becausefor me, a lot of people are
on the eleven versus eleven train.I'm like, yeah, but honestly,
like, I don't. For me, it'll be hard to track like eleven
twenty two running around, right,I'd rather have it. So it's like
three or four v four I was, I was, I was actually two.
I was going to disagree because Ithink when I connected, it definitely
(28:11):
wasn't like who is who is playingwith who, because what you would see
is these are ultimate team bass playersand a lot of the pros are using
the exact same players, um black, exact same cards. But for me,
it was watching like a Dosari ora text be so dominant that you'd
be like, okay, like I'llrespect this individual guy has won me over,
so like I will support him.So in that idea, it was
(28:32):
kind of like tennis or golf maybewhere it's like you're you're chairing for one
guy and if he's out, I'mnot going to watch anymore. So I
could kind of see that, butI think it's it's it's it's there's a
lot of ways you can go andI think that's why it was so difficult
and it remains a tough thing todo, but they've definitely made strides that
team there in terms of UM findinga new angle of presenting FIVA's in es
(28:52):
sport. But I want to askyou to you about your experience with MLS
and then the CPL in that regardas well, because I guess off the
top, like you went to abunch you're a white Caps guy, you
went to a bunch of games,but like your your initial knowledge of the
league, was it super strong?Were you super big MLS guy or was
it kind of like, um,I'll pay attention every now and then.
UM, I mean it was definitely. I think when I first went to
(29:17):
Vancouver in twenty twelve, that's whatI really got into MLS because I can
actually, you know, go tothe games. Um, Because I think,
you know, I really got soldwhen I got to see Beckham for
the first time when he visited fromLa Galaxy to White Caps UM, and
I was like, Beckham was likemy biggest and the fact that I got
to see him I was like,all right, you know, like this
(29:38):
is a league where I can see, you know, Beckham, and then
it is a good league he's here. Yeah, see that exacting the exact
marketing they got it like lid likeliterally, I don't think I would have
initially even thought about it unless ifBeckham didn't go when he first went,
right, So it definitely wonders thatworked UM and then you know, just
to be able to go to thegames and like to be fair back then,
(30:00):
I mean not so much now.White Caps were pretty exciting to watch
UM back in the days of Kakutamneand later on to Alfonso Davies, who's
doing really great. Now not somuch. But you know, I think
unless is trying to move away fromthem, you know, just to bringing
the bringing the one guy that's likekind of old from Europe and you know,
(30:23):
things around him to like you know, building up their old stars.
So it's changed a bit, butI respect them. It was a weird
spot because I think you'd have peoplewho are super into the clubs and the
teams and the day one it's andyou'd have people who'd come if Pilot was
coming to town or Dada or anotherStar, So it's a really weird mix
of people watching the game, Likehalf of them would be like, oh,
this is terrible soccer, and halfof them are trying to just watch
(30:45):
the game because it's an important match. And they got kind of bad,
I would say, atmosphere wise,but the team got better at least in
Toronto and then, and I thinkthat atmosphere was changed by the product on
the field. But I have foundthat MLS is a league that because I
think obviously North America is still growingwhen it comes to soccer, and we
hear this all the time about growthand it's going to be massive, but
(31:06):
that is the case or MLS,but that's led them to try some new
stuff and that they were one ofthe first leagues to really go all in
on emls and have players affiliated withclubs and do it that route. But
I wonder sure if if you haveany any notes from those experiences of hosting
the events in Atlanta and being aroundMLS, because I think exposure is something
(31:29):
that they are looking for when theywhen they throw these kind of things to
get people who might have heard ofMLS the actual product, but they could
get through it too from FIFA andthe esports angle. Yeah. You know
where I first gave my respect forlike MLS as an organization was when I
was working at a sports and youknow, the thing with MLS the way
they um, they have a betterapproach to things because like unlike the Premier
(31:55):
League, unlike you know, leaguesereal like they came to ain't knowing that,
Like all right, kids will interactwith football through the game and our
league through the game. So wekind of need you as much as,
you know, more than you mightneed us. So you know, let's
do something. You know, likeyou rarely get the Premier League being like,
hey, let's do something at leastnot back in that in those days,
(32:16):
being like, oh, let's dosome like let's do like something that's
exclusive them, like exclusive DEFEATA ingame. MLS, let's do a whole
I remember, it's a lot ofhurdles you're jumping, right, It's a
lot of hurdles you're jumping to dodeals with those the bigger leagues. Oh
yeah, Like you know, evenback when I was starting, you know
again, when all that YouTube stuffare starting, like trying to get United
(32:37):
to do something in terms of YouTube, I think city I would say man
City, to be honest with you, was very forward facing when it comes
to the Premi League and then theother clubs starting to pick up, but
like just trying to convince them thatthis was the way forward, and then
MLS just like understood it. Justlike I think they were like the first
league to just have like all theirhighlights just like available instantly right after the
game. And then they really justknew that FIFA was just a way for
(33:02):
kids to know who the MLS playersare, even when the kids are watching
in Europe. So we would doa lot of activations with them. I
think one of my favorite events everat EA was was working an event for
MLS All Stars in twenty fifteen wherelike we're playing FIFA and like MS are
so cool, Like they were likefunnel Kaka to come say hi to us,
(33:22):
and like the promo we're streaming cashfrom ten twenty one and they were
just like, oh you want youwant ka come chill for a minute.
We're like, um, I don'tknow, maybe I don't know, you
know, And like Tada was intown because they're All Stars, they're playing
Tadam and like you just said,like Danny Rose Lo Reice just walking around,
um just in the background, justlike hanging out with us and stuff
(33:43):
like that. And they were justso like into that. So I had
a lot of respectrum in that sense. And then they were the first people
to like start to pick up thethe esports side of things. And again
they do it even I think theydo probably one of the best jobs that
like taking care of the players,trying to make them feel like they're stars.
You know, they have them thesame media days as like there's lots
(34:05):
on and stuff like that and wayto Rooney, so they're always really four
facing. So I always have togive the most a lot of credit for
them. It's it's the It seemsmaybe like the simplest thing when you think
about it, Like off, ifmore kids play at this game with our
teams and they recognize those names,those names will stick with them. But
at least for me growing up,that's how I retained a lot of the
(34:27):
random sports knowledge I had, andit was like random video games and random
things I would see and it wouldstick. And I think obviously times have
changed and maybe there are more distractions, but I still think it works if
you have outward facing attempts to getmore people to know who your players are.
And I think, like you're saying, like MLS is trying, and
when we were working with the biggerleagues, it's a lot more of us
(34:50):
pitching to them something to do withthem being like, hell, no,
we're not doing that. What areyou talking about? What do you talk
about? A terrible idea? Like, But the CPL now is also kind
of dipping their toes in the waterthere, and you've been working with them
on that. What's that project sortof entail? Yeah? So I mean
at first the CPL, the projectI have at CPL was to do like
(35:17):
a weekly series where they would havea tournament for FIFA sports players to represent
like CPL teams, and then they'llbe built up to a final. Unfortunately,
you know, with the COVID nineteenstuff, that got put on hold
halfway through, and then we endedup doing a livestream tourment where it was
(35:37):
kind of like a prom or likea pro in real life. CPL player
would team up with an E sportsplayer and would do a tournament every every
Friday between all the clubs and Iactually worked out pretty well and it was
a good idea, a good wayto pivot because it was a way to
(36:00):
pivot, because I mean, whatcan you do right? You have to
get something out of this situation.Yeah, and you know it was good
to see, like you got tosee the personalities of the actual players.
You know, a lot of theplayers actually played a lot of FIFA and
a lot of them I should reallyreally good at FIFA. So I think
that kind of helped them all becauseyou know, I think the thing that
(36:21):
they're facing is that they have asmall market, and I think FIVA's a
way for them to branch out ofthat small market. In terms of Canada,
it's an access accessibility thing huge,and when people can't really go outside
to access anything, this is theway to do it. And I think
it's been an interesting endeavor and itmakes sense. Um yeah, I mean
just a lot of a lot ofthings, a lot of life. I
(36:44):
feel like, not just sports isabout name recognition or recognizing something vaguely familiar.
And then I'd be like, allright, I'll stick with this a
bit longer, and then you getyou get stuck with it. And I
think the CPL had that momentum andhopefully they can can continue continue to carry
that on foods. Sorry to wrapup. I love you know. You
always used to get questions or Iused to get questions when I was working
(37:06):
at EA, And my favorite questionI ever used to get because it was
it was full of such anti Canadianhatred that it used to make me laugh
and also sides, why why isFIFA made in Vancouver? And what the
hell the Canadians at soccer? Wasone of the things that I always used
to get, and they made itand the people made it seem like it
(37:27):
like we wouldn't allow anyone not Canadianinto the building to work on the game,
like this was a strictly Canadian operation. Oh boy, yeah it was.
You still get that. I mean, you know, even now as
a conselicated well, people think ofAmerica for some reason, I guess because
of the year accent. So they'relike, you know, what what do
you know about? Like what Italked about you, Like, what do
you know about Reunited? Man?Like, dude, like I've literally seen
(37:50):
every single private league season. You'resixteen, what are you talking about?
Um? But in terms of likeEA, yeah, like it's made of
Vancouver. I mean, you know, Electronic Arts probably got a whole bunch
of you know initially like a lotof tax breaks and stuff like that in
that province. So that's why theymade a studio there. But I mean
most of the key designers, mostof the team leaders, most of the
(38:10):
lead developers are not even Canadian.They're all you know, European for the
most part. I would say,um, British, German, you name
it. Um, So a lotof the team are not uh, they're
not Canadian at all. It's kindof funny. It's literally the United Nations
and that that office, and sokeep that in mind when you're curising the
game or applying to a corporate accountsome nonsensical rambling. Um, it's not
(38:37):
only Canadians you make it. Theperson reading that that complaint probably not having
an issue with whatever you're mad andand and even the stats are like they're
the stats are literally the team todo the stats are than literally in Germany.
So if you're man in Germans aboutthe stats are um. I first
(39:00):
started there, and just not thepower, but like when you're running accounts
to like seven million people, followingthe fear at the beginning was quite hilarious.
I did because it was weird tofully grasp how many people actually play
this game and then to be workingbehind the scenes with it. But it's
definitely cool. It's definitely a careeraltering experience. And two, I mean
(39:22):
you are exhibit a of having beinga life changing experience. Oh yeah,
it was definitely a life changing.Um. You know. The good thing
about working of the is that youcan branch out to pretty much like whatever
you want, especially in the videogame scene. Usually you're able to branch
out so many things. And like, like he said, since given was
so big, I mean you kindof like experience the most like sometimes the
(39:46):
worst situations, and just being insuch a big franchise, you just have
to handle things that like are wayabove the level that you're at, and
that just like gives you way moreexperience than like you can go to somewhere
else and it's not even gonna beit's you know, I'm gonna break a
slat appeared to where you went throughthat EA. So it really gives you
(40:07):
up for a lot of things inlife. It's Chew Boy chew more official
Torontonian. He has sworn off Vancouverforever, but I'm glad we have this
breaking news to send back over theWest. Coast too. Thanks so much,
man Ain't no problem. Welcome backto a football podcast. That was
(40:32):
our interview with Chew Mora, alsoknown as Chew Boy on the interwebs.
David I mentioned this with you,and I think the rise of Ultimate Team
and basically everything FIFA as really alteredthe way we look at the game of
soccer in general. And I wonder, like, when you were growing up,
(40:57):
how big of a role did FIFAplay, like your your absorption of
soccer, because I mean in NorthAmerica, even though if you had family
or you had family from other countriesoriginally like to be able to really immerse
yourself in soccer in the nineties wasreally tough. I will say this.
I own an Alan Shear in Newcastle, Jersey. I have no idea where
it is, and it's because ofFIFA. So they made Newcastle seventy bucks
(41:20):
one time because Mike Ashley still youknow, Mike Ashley still has that somewhere
exactly. It's part of the pitchwhen he tries to sell the team,
he's well, one time we soldthis jersey to this guy on Long Island.
But it was huge. Oh toWorld Cup game. I still remember
you had the player with the starunderneath it who was the best player on
the field, and you could tackleguys off the field. So that was
(41:44):
awesome, but I still remembered itwas a massive part of getting into the
game. And I've talked to peopleI've worked around, some of the people
I'm sure that you've interacted with inthe MLS circles who say, like,
what it did for you for thesport, it can do for people who
already like soccer for amis and Ithink Two Boy talked about that of what
they've done in the efforts they've made. Because everyone already plays FIFA, everyone
(42:07):
plays as Chelsea Barcelona and Real Madrid. Everyone knows the players on Chelsea,
Barcelona and Real Madrid. So ifyou can get people to play as Atlanta
and La and Montreal and all thosethings, you start to learn about it,
you start to care about it alittle bit, get connected to it.
It has a ton of potential.I think even if they're using all
the superstar players, even if yousee that Atlanta United kit or that Nashville
(42:29):
kit being used by a FIFA proand they're playing on quote unquote the biggest
stage, it matters and people willremember what that looks like and some of
the rules that they put in.I think initially what happened was all of
the pros would use the best players, who would usually be the same guys.
And when MLS decided to put inthat quota for how many MLS guys
you needed in your squad, itmade more people talk about them, and
(42:52):
it made more people examine who whoto use, and through that that conversation
was generated and I think that isone of the goals I remember FIFA for
me, I think it was thebird Camp cover edition of FIFA that got
me onto Arsenal got me on tofollowing the sports super closely, so that
tie was forever forged. And whenI went to live in South Korea,
(43:12):
one of the things I did whenI taught English there was play FIFA with
the kids and talk about the gamesand do match reports in English. So
it's something that has been into intertwinedwith my life for so long. And
to be able to go work therewas a bit of a dream and I
have I have a lot of respectfor these guys who are doing something basically
(43:34):
that's really never been done. AndJimmy, Jimmy Conrad's one of those people,
and so is Cho so so itwas a treat to get to chat
with them. But David, I'mgonna ask you for a bold prediction in
the sense that like, do youdo you think things like FIFA or other
video games are the primary draw toget younger fans in or do you think
(43:58):
it is gone beyond that realm wherelike the influencers now don't even have to
be like associated with soccer. Ithink if I knew this, I'd have
a lot more money than I currentlydid. I was asking, Hey,
I was asking. I was askingyou because I'm trying to fill out this
last slide in my PowerPoint deck.Then I got to present, so I
was gonna I was gonna ask you. Then I'll take a stab. It
(44:22):
is a big problem for other sportsthat I like a lot, and I
use tennis as an example of Idon't think it's the problem with tennis is
it's an expensive sport in some cases, and I think the viewership generally tends
to skew older at the events becausethe tickets are so expensive. But for
the most part, young people stillwatch it. It's just really hard to
(44:43):
get into the game because there reallyis no good vehicle for it in video
games, and I think that's aconversation that people are having, and every
time that does happen, FIFA isthe example that's used. It's like,
this is the dream of what itcould be like to get people in.
So I don't think there is anequivalent. I think this remains the best
way, and it is. Reallyit's a huge money making operation for EA,
(45:05):
of course, but globally we talkyou about football in general and transfer
fees and everything, but this industryand what they're doing an ultimate team in
etc. It's pretty mindfuling. Yeah, I would agree with you. I
think the only comp is like theInstagram highlight culture of the NBA and how
that's brought people in who probably don'tsit and watch a full NBA game ever,
(45:28):
maybe outside of the finals, butthey're NBA fans and they know everything
that's going on because of the culturethat league's built. I think FIFA is
like the only comp to that ofa way to bring people in who maybe
don't really care or don't watch thegames, or you know, aren't that
into it. It's like a differentpart of the world that exists, but
it's I mean, it's amazing howbig it is. Just like everyone plays
(45:52):
of all ages. Anyone who hasever picked up a video game of any
sort, console, whatever individual onthem, doesn't matter. They've all everyone's
played FIFA. So it's huge andI think it's gonna be interesting. What
fascinates me is like you talk aboutchew Boy being an early adopter, is
like, we don't know where thisends. And so for me, people
(46:14):
who choose to operate in space likethat of like, there's potential, but
there's no guarantees that. I'm alwaysimpressed by people like that. And that's
like Jimmy Conrad. Jimmy Conrad goesto foot In with a thousand levels of
energy to things he has no ideawill work where I'm like, I don't
know, I'll just do the thingthat I've heard of before and like not
even put that much energy into it. People like that are impressive because those
(46:35):
are the people that change things andpush things and create new industries and create
new ways of operating in industries,and you remember them thirty years later as
like a big famous name. ButI think this is a space where you're
starting to see we're watching people becomethose people. Times have changed, mister
GOSSP but we move forward. Areminder, we are on Patreon. For
(46:57):
dollars a month gets you exclusive contentcutting our interview series where we talk to
the newsmakers in football. You alsoget a nineteen ninety four World Cup trading
card pack set from Upper Deck.That's it for this week for mister Goss
and myself. Thank you for listeningto a football podcast. We will talk
to you suit
Hello, and welcome to a footballpodcast. My name is Devangasi and I'm
joined as always by mister David Goss. David, how are you, sir?
I am fantastic. I'm excited,devang to step into your world because
you were the one who worked atEA. You are the FIFA expert.
So to talk to hear from oneof your guys, and to h to
learn a little bit as exciting.Indeed, we step beyond the computer screen
(00:45):
into the net or into the nineteenninety five movie Hackers to explain what is
coming next. I'm an I wasn'tthe ACE ORCFA guy. I did work
on a video game franchise, butI think I learned a lot coming out
of that place, and I learnedI knew coming in. It was an
eye opening experience. And Chew Moraknown as Chew Boy, now a YouTube
(01:06):
celebrity, a YouTube influencer, andthe FIFA landscape a host of multiple events.
He's really carved out his own nicheand it's crazy. David. I
feel like a couple of years ago, or maybe five years ago, even
the idea that FIFA as an esportwould be a thing I think was pine
the sky notion to a lot ofpeople, but we were kind of forced
(01:27):
into it in twenty twenty and towatch people play FIFA on TV, and
it was kind of seeing that betthat was made a few years ago come
to fruition and it was really interestingtalking to Chew about that. Yeah,
it's interesting, Dang, you talkabout it in the interview which we're about
to get to. But like alot of the angles that you and Chew
Boy talk about and are thinking about, I just never really thought about because
(01:49):
it, you know, it wasn'tmy world to make decisions on of like
will people want to watch this fulltime instead of soccer or you know,
as a supplement to soccer, andwho will people root for? And how
will people care about it? Butit's definitely grown heavily. It's definitely a
big reason. I remember people thatI knew getting into soccer and learning about
(02:09):
the game. And I think that'sstill the case. So it has a
huge place in the soccer world,whether it's instead of or just as part
of the whole organism. But it'sreally interesting to see how it's grown.
And I don't think we're even closeto there yet. I don't know where
there will be. But that's oneof the things that's fascinating about this is
(02:30):
how new it is and how muchpotential it has. Definitely, I think
the idea that you have this legionof entrepreneurs who skew younger, who know
frankly a lot more about the careerlandscape that a lot of people are trying
to operate in, and you cankind of see the people who are flailing
of it and the people who arethriving. And it's those early adapters like
(02:51):
who are leading the way. Sojust before we get to that, we
are on Patreon for four dollars amonth. You'll help us create more exclusive
content, more unique interviews one onone with some of the biggest newsmakers in
this sport that will drop monthly.Plus if you sign up before August fourth,
you'll get a very cool nineteen ninetyfour upper Deck World Cup card as
(03:13):
a special gift. Please share whatyou got or what you packed when you
open it up on Twitter at afootball podcast. All right, without further
ado, it's my interview with youboy. Welcome back to a football podcast.
(03:34):
My guest today is a content creator, host jack of all trades.
His name is Chew Mora, butyou might know him as Chew boy.
Chew what's happening? I'm not allright just I would say I'm just staying
inside, But I did you justgo outside? So that would be a
lot safely safely though right safely.Yes, I avoided all people good,
(03:57):
so very safe about that. Itreated them like they had they were the
like there were zombies. You know, that's a new thing now. I
don't. I don't make eye contactwith people out there. It's just you
go out, you get what youneed to get and you make it back
to base camp and wait for thenext chance. Even too, even in
Toronto now a while. But youcame from Vancouver, can you can?
I consider you in Toronto right now? Though I like, eat you more
(04:18):
Toronto than Vancouver. Honestly, I'velike since last year, I've already cleared
myself to be more Toronto than Vancouveras soon as I as soon as I
guy, I've been for two years, as soon as I die here in
twenty eighteen, like I just likeI went through that first summer and summers
in Toronto. Everyone that those arepretty they get pretty routing in a good
way. Um and they're a lotof fun. And as soon as that
(04:42):
hit, and you know, andI finally got to be in a city
that has basketball, which I've beenwatching a lot as much as soccer,
I guess, well not as muchas soccer. Excuse me, because I
was weirdly obsessed with that sport growingup, of course, um but that
was always my second sport. Iwas. You know, I played basketball
when I was in high school,but I never had seen like basketball games.
I've ever been in a city thathad basketball NBA games to go to
(05:04):
it all, this being the firsttime, I just went all out spent
way too much money on playoff ticketslast year. We won't talk about that,
but you know everything he saw theKawhi shot live. I mean,
that was good, that is true. I saw the Koi Charlotte. I
almost didn't go to that match becausethat game, because my friends didn't want
to go because they thought that likea hundred bucks was too much for a
(05:26):
game seven. Yeah, dude,I just I just ignored them from now
on when they talked about like playoffs, they thought one hundred bucks Canadian was
too much for a game seven,And I just was like, all,
I know what, I'm just gonnago, and it was like the best
sports moment I've ever seen in mylife. So I brought up Vancouver's and
it's because that's where you and Ifirst met in an interesting circumstance. Or
(05:48):
I was working at Electronic Arts,the maker of the FIFA video game franchise,
and you were visiting as our guest, but you had basically done my
job at EA prior to that.So I kind of wanted to start today
by asking you how you started withthe EA Sports FIFA franchise. Uh yeah,
(06:10):
So, um, I remember,this was like one thing I always
wanted to do. You know,in college, I was an industrial engineer,
but engineers kind of boring. Ifigured out once I started to do
like internships and stuff, and Iwas new in graduation and so I was
like, my two favorite things weresoccer and video games, you know,
any kind of big and not justFIFA, but like you know, college
duty, FIFA, you name it. Like, used to play a lot
(06:33):
of rock band actually, but Ialways want to work in that industry.
So you know, Um, Iwas in the US at the time.
I'm not a US citizen of majorin a Canadian so you have like this
one year visa that you get afteryou graduate from college, and you know,
after that visas done, then you'dhave to like get sponsored for like
another visa, like an H onevisa or something like that to stay in
(06:54):
the US permanently. Fortunately, mycompany don't want to sponsor me, so
I had to, you know,go to Canada. I'll go back to
Nigeria or something. So I waslike, all, you know, let
me try Canada out and let mejust go for video game jobs like nothing
but be to give jobs on thefirst job I happened to see online was
one for being the community manager forfor FIFA, the FIFA franchise. So
(07:15):
I literally that same night that Iwas told I was not going to get
sponsitive for the job, I stayedup, made a resume, sent it
off. You know, for anyonewho wants to get a foot in the
door, definitely stop people on LinkedInand trying to find their email and email
them your resume directly does work.That's how I got my foot in the
(07:36):
door. And then about a weekand a half later, I got the
job and moved up from Seattle toVancouver, and then I was the FIFA
community manager. So at that time, what year is this? This is
this is twenty twelve, This islike March twenty twelve. So how it's
where's Ultimate Team at at this pointthe FIFA Ultimate Team section? Is this
(07:58):
still just starting kind of thing oris it already going at this point?
Well, it was, I guessyou could say it was still in its
infancy. I mean it was aboutthree years old. I joined halfway through
FIFA twelve, and I guess anybody, you know, quick stumper for anyone
who doesn't know the Ultimate Team sideof FIFA all three team is like,
I guess, the Pokemon of FIFA, where like every every football player that
(08:22):
one has its own like trading cardand then you you know, you buypacks
to approve your team and then youplay against other people on like actual FIFA.
So I was hired because the marketingteam didn't really understand Ultimate Team as
a whole, like in terms oflike how to make it like mass market,
how to like understand what the communityis all about, what they talk
about, and also how to workbetter with the development team. So at
(08:48):
this time it was about three yearsinto fee FA Altima team. It was
starting FIFA nine in twelve. Itwas about three years old, but it
was still like that mode that likethe company was just like all right,
it sort of makes a lot ofmoney, but like what is it all
about? So my job was goingto be like, all right, this
is what it's like. It's funnybecause I think one of the first few
(09:09):
things people's asked used to ask mewhen I was working at EA was like,
oh, are you picking team ofa week? Or like why did
you pick that? Or like thingsthat on the outside it seemed like you
would have control, but you don'tbecause there's so many people involved in the
process, and the process is timestaking, and there's a lot of thought put
into it, and that's definitely somethingI don't think I considered when I was
(09:31):
outside those doors, but when Iwent inside there, I'm like, okay,
Like this isn't just watching some buddhisticagames on Saturday and picking it a
guy because of sustant chess, ButI asked him an ultimate team. Because
I think it took on in thein the history or the timeline of the
FIFA franchise. It became such animportant aspect, not only to the company
itself, because of what a moneymakerit was and how many people were involved
(09:56):
with because it began to shape theculture and the discourse and when we were
people who were able to begin creatingtheir own content based off of the Ultimate
team that they have for the Ultimateteam that they were creating, whether it
be from scratch and not buying packs, doing it with no money spent the
Road to glory, or people openingpacks like crazy. But you remember the
(10:16):
moment when that that kind of shifthappened and you saw that that merge maybe
from it's an EA possession and EAis going to push all this out too.
Now these guys are making all thiscontent. Let's let's go with them,
let's work together with them. Wasthat a kind of right away thing
or something that EA had to kindof talk themselves into, um, in
(10:37):
terms of the content side of things, I think it was something that was
initially started like right before I joined. I remember the first ever, you
know, we have these capture bentswhere you know, we invite YouTubers over
to record the game early and playthe game make videos for it, and
you know, this was about thishappened like three weeks before I actually enjoyed,
So you know, I had alittle a little old guy called k
(10:58):
Side hanging around. He was likesixteen or something like that. You know,
he's obviously gotten to do bigger andbetter things. But so that was
like the first ever i think captureor you know, content creator event that
they ever had. And then fromthen on I helped establish those events and
(11:18):
like established the relationship with the contentcreators influences things like that. That was
an ongoing process, and I wouldsay, you know, this was like
the infancy of like, yeah,serious YouTube content creation in general in terms
of video games, like when allthe big guys were just starting. So
this is again twenty twelve, andthen later and then I would say,
(11:39):
like when it really like hit,like all right, this is you know,
a big part of things, Iwould say, it's like FIFA fourteen.
I think m fourteen was just likethe time that like everything just took
off. Like either thirteen was probablymy favorite FIVA all twenteen, but I
think fourteen it was a mixture ofboth. It was when you know,
obviously content you know, just blewup, like the likes of like rhotor
(12:01):
Shaw managedd Game, Mary Kiss andall those kind of guys bateson as well,
but it was also the time thatlike, EA, finally like saw
FIFA Alter Team as like the mainthing in the company. I remember before
then it was kind of like,you know, those of us who were
working off people all of the team, we're just kind of those guys somewhere
(12:22):
in the office to like apparently didsome like magic and like all of a
sudden printed money and it was likecool, all right, And then I
think it was you know, Ithink like a round FIFA. I think
a year before that, I thinkwe got a new CEO. That's when
Andrew Wilson came in and he waslike, all right, he is all
about digital and so that's when thingsstarted to focus on you know, Ultimate
Team stuff like that, and thenthat led to the lots of people fourteen.
(12:45):
I think given fourteen was the firsttime the majority of people who played
FIVA actually played Ultimate Team. Andthen everything was like super you know serious,
like now we had people watching overwhat we did, and like when
we do promos and things like that, you know, people ask me when
when is the team of the season. I was like, you'd never There's
a lot of random messages as youget from random people, and it's uh,
(13:05):
it's it's time sensitive messages as well. I think it's it's the realization
that the stuff that you could hirean agency for or an outside firm forum
is being created by people who areactively playing your game for free and have
an audience of the exact kind ofpeople that you want to get on board.
(13:26):
And it connects the two those twoareas so well that it made so
much sense. And then you sawthis explosion that you mentioned too, of
these guys not only having careers offof it, but being able to do
things and visit football grounds and travelplaces that a lot of people wanted to
do. But I think for mewhen I when I started the role,
(13:46):
I think the interesting part from me, among any things to sell you highly
to is that when you left YEA, you decided to venture out on your
own and become a content creator yourself. So I want to ask you about
that process and meet that thought processin your mind. Is like when you
knew this is what you wanted todo? Uh yeah, well you know,
I guess they say, you know, if you can't beat them,
(14:07):
join them. But you know,since I was like, I had so
many roles um in the company,and then all of a sudden, I
became the influencer manager as well,and I was just kind of like,
you know, I was looking Iwas looking at what the future will look
like. I was looking at theseguys, and I'm like, they have
a way more control of their livesthan I didn't, Like, you know,
like I have, you know,a boss told me when I need
(14:28):
to show up at work, Ihave somebody teld me how much shalary I
can make. And I was lookingat these guys. I was like,
they're just I mean, they're startingout, but like, you know the
way things are going, like I'drather be on that side in terms of
control than like on my side.You know, like this isn't going to
stop, Like it's going to keepgoing, is the thinking? Right?
(14:48):
Like that's that's what I'm the pageI'm on as well, exactly. So
like this was like twenty fifteen again, like twenty fourteen everything like in like
FIFA sets had just it up andthen I was like, well, I
mean, like you just said,it's like, you know, they're average,
They're they're reaching people who like areliterally the target audience. I'm like,
(15:09):
that makes so much sense than likespending five million dollars in like a
super Bowl ad, and when youcould just give like a kid like K
Side, you know, thirty thousandor forty thousand, and you're probably gonna
reach the same people. So like, won't that just keep growing to the
point where like the K Sides orthe world are going to be paid the
same amount of the Super Bowl commercialin like ten years, is what I
was thinking to myself. I waslike, all right, you know what
(15:31):
one thing I don't like is I'mvery stubborn, so I don't like having,
you know, people telling what todo and like people tell me what
to show up. So I'm likethat and looking at the future, I'd
rather be on that side. SoI'm twenty fifteen. I think October after
the right after the launcher of Fsixteen. I wanted to make sure that
the P sixteen came out so Ididn't ditch the team or anything. I
(15:52):
decided to become a content creator.So this is where I and a crew
of others enter the picture in thetimeline, because shortly after True leaves,
the esports division at FIFA begins,and then I go to Vancouver to work
on that side of it, andthis is where I kind of wanted to
focus our conversation today too, becauseI think we mentioned the content creators and
(16:17):
the YouTubers who are well established andwho have a massive following. I mean
you mentioned Ksi. Ksi has fullygone out of the original zone he was
in and now become a figure acrossmultiple genres. And I think if you,
if you talk to anyone back inthat time, I don't think anyone
expected that, but that is wherewe are now. But I think the
question when I started at YEA,and I think it remains the question now
(16:41):
is is esports is obviously big?Esports is massive, There's millions of people
watching countless leagues and games. ButFIFA, can that be done for this
game where the equivalent is actually watchingpeople play it in real life, whereas
this is the video game version,And even though it's one of the most
massively successful games in the world,will that translate to viewership for people watching
(17:06):
the best people play FIFA around theworld. So that was the task that
we started with, and then fromthere I think it took. It's taken
many turns that I think we'll coverthem when we talk with Shoot right after
the break. Welcome back to afootball podcast. FIFA esports too. Your
(17:30):
first your first thought when this ideawas becoming less of an idea and more
of a reality, when the planswho were coming into fruition and it was
like we're going to do this,did you think highly of the idea?
What was your initial prognosis? Oh? Well, I definitely liked the idea
because it's something that you know,like I said, I left a FEVA
(17:52):
sixteen and before then, it wasn'tlike something I was thinking seriously, I
would say, yea. So Ijust like that that it was like some
thing that I've never seen before becausebeing a DYEA for four years, I
kind of had seen it all interms of FIFA. So I'm like,
oh, this is something new thatI haven't seen I experience, and you
know, yeah, I do probablywant to see competitive FIFA so it'll teach
(18:12):
me how to get better and I'llsee this entertainment, you know. Um.
I think I was worried that,like you know, as someone who's
worked that ya Um, I wouldsay my thing about the company sometimes that
they kind of, you know,they just want to go into an idea
without fully flushing it out and thinkingabout it because they just want to be
(18:33):
in the space that's gonna be thefuture. So they're just gonna jump in,
see what sticks, and then figureit out later. So that's something
I've known the company to do,so I kind of expected that, and
I think they're starting to figure outnow it's gonna I mean it's like literally
the genesis of EV sports and startingthe TVA seventeen, so three years ago,
three or four years ago. Sonow they're kind of start figuring out.
(18:56):
It's still a lot of growing pains, but you know, obviously only
get better. But I'm happy that'shere. But like you said, I
think the struggle that we have aFEV sports over you know, the counter
shrikes, the the pub gs,the Fortnites, things like that, is
that we're based off of something that'smore popular than the thing we're playing.
(19:18):
Um, so we're always going tobe I think for the long for the
long time. For a long timewas just going to be you know,
the supplement to the thing where we'rebased off of. Well, I think
now you see, during the pandemic, sports channels need to feel content and
some one of the few things thatare still going on our E sports,
and some of them involved s wordsgames, including Madden and FIEF. I
(19:42):
know that Madden Champion the guy didn'tthrow the ball the entire time in the
championship tournament, which is like crazy. It's hilarious to me, not hilarious
because I feel I know people onthat Madden team. But it's like,
on one way, it's like,Wow, the guy found a way to
beat the system, and it's supernews for it and people are talking about
it. But in another way,it's like, oh God, this game
(20:03):
is broken, and the sky ithas since exposed it on national TV,
so I could I was of twominds while I was watching that, but
I think I had the same thoughtsthat you can watch this already and it's
and even though FIFA is extremely popular, you ask anybody on the street,
and I feel like ninety percent wouldbe like, yeah, I'm pretty good
a FIFA, like I could beatyou. Like that's the way it was
said, of like, oh I'vegot game. But when you saw these
(20:26):
pros play, I was impressed.I was taking it back. I'm like,
this is insane. The ability isextremely high, but let's see if
it translates to actual viewership. AndI think the question I would ask you
is like within your audience, umduring this pandemic is A is your shot
viewership up? And B do youfeel like you are are are you as
(20:48):
are beat? Are you acting asa substitute possibly for for real footballs this
time? And maybe is this thetime for for FIFA sports. I would
say, you know, the firstquestion, yes, viewership is up usually
of this time with FIFA since it'sa yearly game. You know, Viva's
one of the few games that comesout of the year that like keeps people
interest, keeps people's interest for aboutten and twelve months. Usually the game
(21:10):
that comes out of the year.After the first three months, viewership goes
down, and viewership of Viva startsto go down around this time. But
you know, with all this pandemicstuff, things have actually been really good.
Like you probably had record breaking months, which usually doesn't happen. It
usually happens between September to December whenthe new FIVA comes out. So it's
been great. And in terms ofsubstituting for real Viva, I mean,
(21:34):
I would guess so because you're justkind of you know, I would say,
we're kind of substituting for not necessarilythe like I guess the actual playing
of football, but just kind oflike the discussion around it, you know,
like replacing what like Gary Neville wouldhave been doing. You know,
he has to wait for real football. Now he's just regurgitating like stuff about
(21:56):
like oh, like all these youknow, news sites and stuff, we're
just talking about, oh, whatis the greatest team to play in the
primary? Bula bla blom, Likewe've seen him before. Now we can
see something happening in FIFA, andlike you can interact with those actual players
right now, and you have guysplaying with content creators all the time,
which is which is something that Ithink when this started, when the Esports
(22:17):
Division started, it was like,let's let's try and involve real footballers as
well and get them to show howgood these players are who are playing the
video game, because I think that'salso something that's extremely hard to sell.
Like the average viewer if they seesomeone playing FIFA on TV, it's it's
like, how do you show themthat this person is extremely good and way
better than you are? Because Ithink that for me was something that you
(22:40):
can immediately ascertain that right when you'rewatching on the screen. But like two,
do you remember the first event wehad. Do you remember do you
have your initial thoughts going into that, because it was an incredibly big production
for the first goal around, andI think it's interesting to see where it
came from that beginning back in twentyseventeen to where it is now. Or
I think the scale, like youmentioned, is something that they've been working
(23:02):
on to find the right fit.Yeah, I think the skills definitely been
bigger. I think at first,you know, in twenty seventeen, I
guess, you know, any timewe do something for the first time,
you don't really know what to focuson. I think, you know,
I think they started they were tryingto like and this is something I still
disagree with where they They've gone awayfrom this a bit, But I think
(23:23):
at the start they were trying tosell FIFA to your mom and dad and
your brother that doesn't play video games, like anybody who is not a hardcore
fum of player. They're trying to, like, you know, make your
family members like some random random guy. So random guy walking down the streets
gonna be like, oh, Isaw this on at our screen and I'm
going to watch the now exactly right, Versus I think the best Way to
(23:47):
Go is just a cater to thepeople who like absolutely go nuts for FIFA
and want to watch and I wantto watch every time, go super technical,
super in depth about everything. ButI think the first year was just
kind of like, hey, thisis a show and there's a video and
we play and like anybody can watch, and let's make it super basic so
everybody understand what's going on, versuslike, you know, you talk to
(24:07):
the hardcore guy, you make himhappy with the show, he convisits his
friends to watch too, and you'remore lucky to get somebody to watch something
when their friend tells them instead.So I think they've gone away from that.
Of bits, they still I thinkfocus on that still quite a bit,
but I think they've gone away fromthat, and I think one thing
that's nice that they're doing now isthat, like I really have to give
(24:29):
them credit for that is um they'remaking like the players themselves feel like stars.
I think the production value around someof the things that they've done and
the way that they position the guysthat are like, yeah, you want
to be this guy you at homeon the couch and you want to be
everything starry like because this guy's livingthe life right now or you want to
be texts who's a teenager and who'sone? Everything there is to win?
(24:51):
Right like that that and I thinkthat that starmaking idea quote unquote was something
that was talked to you at thebeginning, and they hit their stride later
on in that. But I it'sit's funny because I think if they talked
about it more technically from the go, you probably would have lost some people
right away, but you would havewon the respective to people who maybe would
eat this stuff up. But Idon't know if that's enough numbers, right
(25:12):
Like, I don't know if thatthat balance could have been could have been
hit perfectly. But it's tough tostuff because but then you go to like
freaking like counterstrikes, like they don'tcare about the other people don't watch yeah,
and you tune in, You tunein randomly and have no idea what's
going on. Yeah. Well,and one thing that always upsets me about
like I was watching um I feelwould it's called exactly, but I was
(25:34):
watching the Rainbow six like finally likeMontreal and people are losing their absolute shit.
I'm like, you guys are likeit's a it's an arena that's passed
like two to three thousand people,and people are going like absolutely saying like
they're a football arena and like yellingand like screaming it's for Rainbow six.
And I'm like, and people,we don't get this because for people it's
(25:55):
like, wait this, like whywould I go nuts for this? When
I'm like, I can watch likethe actual thing and go nuts for that,
Like I can actually go watch BankUnited. So like that feels where
I feel like it feels weird topeople who watch FIFA because I feel like
one thing that we need to workon in FIFA is like when you there's
a there's a few leagues that doit really well. I have to give
a shout out to them. It'slike the Dutch League, the Eadivis and
(26:18):
the Danish League super leigua. Isthat like when we do like events,
maybe it's the location that we dothem, Like in London, like people
are really like very quiet, whichreally bothers me. But then um,
I think that's because it's not teambased because in the EEDI viz the Dutch
league, you know it's two playersfrom two FIVA problem is from a X
(26:38):
versus two players from Fine Ords.So it's like on Darby, So like
people are going nuts, but they'regoing nuts because it's I X persus Fine
Ord and because it's FIFA. Butthe added element of supporting your club that
you already support in real life andlike going at people, it gives you
that feeling that you are in afootball arena. And I think one thing
that FIFA needs to get a roundis that it needs to be more team
(27:03):
based than individuals, because you can, I feel like you only get go
so far with football if it's likefootball is a team sport. We watch
it because of teams, not becauseI mean except for maybe like the likes
of Ronaldo. Name aren't a pop, but you want to watch Ronaldo.
So like me, I'm a family, I go wherever he's going. But
you know, when it comes toFIFA, it's like all right, you
know we have the tax, youhave the MS side, but I think
(27:26):
that can only go so far.But then if it's like text the Liverpool
player text, oh my god,yeah, let's go support the Liverpool player.
Of text let's go support the torontocplayer Phil B. You know,
so the idea is like and likeyou're basically saying like pro clubs but souped
ups to that it's individual guys ona single team possibly, and then like
(27:48):
I wouldn't. I wouldn't say becausefor me, a lot of people are
on the eleven versus eleven train.I'm like, yeah, but honestly,
like, I don't. For me, it'll be hard to track like eleven
twenty two running around, right,I'd rather have it. So it's like
three or four v four I was, I was, I was actually two.
I was going to disagree because Ithink when I connected, it definitely
(28:11):
wasn't like who is who is playingwith who, because what you would see
is these are ultimate team bass playersand a lot of the pros are using
the exact same players, um black, exact same cards. But for me,
it was watching like a Dosari ora text be so dominant that you'd
be like, okay, like I'llrespect this individual guy has won me over,
so like I will support him.So in that idea, it was
(28:32):
kind of like tennis or golf maybewhere it's like you're you're chairing for one
guy and if he's out, I'mnot going to watch anymore. So I
could kind of see that, butI think it's it's it's it's there's a
lot of ways you can go andI think that's why it was so difficult
and it remains a tough thing todo, but they've definitely made strides that
team there in terms of UM findinga new angle of presenting FIVA's in es
(28:52):
sport. But I want to askyou to you about your experience with MLS
and then the CPL in that regardas well, because I guess off the
top, like you went to abunch you're a white Caps guy, you
went to a bunch of games,but like your your initial knowledge of the
league, was it super strong?Were you super big MLS guy or was
it kind of like, um,I'll pay attention every now and then.
UM, I mean it was definitely. I think when I first went to
(29:17):
Vancouver in twenty twelve, that's whatI really got into MLS because I can
actually, you know, go tothe games. Um, Because I think,
you know, I really got soldwhen I got to see Beckham for
the first time when he visited fromLa Galaxy to White Caps UM, and
I was like, Beckham was likemy biggest and the fact that I got
to see him I was like,all right, you know, like this
(29:38):
is a league where I can see, you know, Beckham, and then
it is a good league he's here. Yeah, see that exacting the exact
marketing they got it like lid likeliterally, I don't think I would have
initially even thought about it unless ifBeckham didn't go when he first went,
right, So it definitely wonders thatworked UM and then you know, just
to be able to go to thegames and like to be fair back then,
(30:00):
I mean not so much now.White Caps were pretty exciting to watch
UM back in the days of Kakutamneand later on to Alfonso Davies, who's
doing really great. Now not somuch. But you know, I think
unless is trying to move away fromthem, you know, just to bringing
the bringing the one guy that's likekind of old from Europe and you know,
(30:23):
things around him to like you know, building up their old stars.
So it's changed a bit, butI respect them. It was a weird
spot because I think you'd have peoplewho are super into the clubs and the
teams and the day one it's andyou'd have people who'd come if Pilot was
coming to town or Dada or anotherStar, So it's a really weird mix
of people watching the game, Likehalf of them would be like, oh,
this is terrible soccer, and halfof them are trying to just watch
(30:45):
the game because it's an important match. And they got kind of bad,
I would say, atmosphere wise,but the team got better at least in
Toronto and then, and I thinkthat atmosphere was changed by the product on
the field. But I have foundthat MLS is a league that because I
think obviously North America is still growingwhen it comes to soccer, and we
hear this all the time about growthand it's going to be massive, but
(31:06):
that is the case or MLS,but that's led them to try some new
stuff and that they were one ofthe first leagues to really go all in
on emls and have players affiliated withclubs and do it that route. But
I wonder sure if if you haveany any notes from those experiences of hosting
the events in Atlanta and being aroundMLS, because I think exposure is something
(31:29):
that they are looking for when theywhen they throw these kind of things to
get people who might have heard ofMLS the actual product, but they could
get through it too from FIFA andthe esports angle. Yeah. You know
where I first gave my respect forlike MLS as an organization was when I
was working at a sports and youknow, the thing with MLS the way
they um, they have a betterapproach to things because like unlike the Premier
(31:55):
League, unlike you know, leaguesereal like they came to ain't knowing that,
Like all right, kids will interactwith football through the game and our
league through the game. So wekind of need you as much as,
you know, more than you mightneed us. So you know, let's
do something. You know, likeyou rarely get the Premier League being like,
hey, let's do something at leastnot back in that in those days,
(32:16):
being like, oh, let's dosome like let's do like something that's
exclusive them, like exclusive DEFEATA ingame. MLS, let's do a whole
I remember, it's a lot ofhurdles you're jumping, right, It's a
lot of hurdles you're jumping to dodeals with those the bigger leagues. Oh
yeah, Like you know, evenback when I was starting, you know
again, when all that YouTube stuffare starting, like trying to get United
(32:37):
to do something in terms of YouTube, I think city I would say man
City, to be honest with you, was very forward facing when it comes
to the Premi League and then theother clubs starting to pick up, but
like just trying to convince them thatthis was the way forward, and then
MLS just like understood it. Justlike I think they were like the first
league to just have like all theirhighlights just like available instantly right after the
game. And then they really justknew that FIFA was just a way for
(33:02):
kids to know who the MLS playersare, even when the kids are watching
in Europe. So we would doa lot of activations with them. I
think one of my favorite events everat EA was was working an event for
MLS All Stars in twenty fifteen wherelike we're playing FIFA and like MS are
so cool, Like they were likefunnel Kaka to come say hi to us,
(33:22):
and like the promo we're streaming cashfrom ten twenty one and they were
just like, oh you want youwant ka come chill for a minute.
We're like, um, I don'tknow, maybe I don't know, you
know, And like Tada was intown because they're All Stars, they're playing
Tadam and like you just said,like Danny Rose Lo Reice just walking around,
um just in the background, justlike hanging out with us and stuff
(33:43):
like that. And they were justso like into that. So I had
a lot of respectrum in that sense. And then they were the first people
to like start to pick up thethe esports side of things. And again
they do it even I think theydo probably one of the best jobs that
like taking care of the players,trying to make them feel like they're stars.
You know, they have them thesame media days as like there's lots
(34:05):
on and stuff like that and wayto Rooney, so they're always really four
facing. So I always have togive the most a lot of credit for
them. It's it's the It seemsmaybe like the simplest thing when you think
about it, Like off, ifmore kids play at this game with our
teams and they recognize those names,those names will stick with them. But
at least for me growing up,that's how I retained a lot of the
(34:27):
random sports knowledge I had, andit was like random video games and random
things I would see and it wouldstick. And I think obviously times have
changed and maybe there are more distractions, but I still think it works if
you have outward facing attempts to getmore people to know who your players are.
And I think, like you're saying, like MLS is trying, and
when we were working with the biggerleagues, it's a lot more of us
(34:50):
pitching to them something to do withthem being like, hell, no,
we're not doing that. What areyou talking about? What do you talk
about? A terrible idea? Like, But the CPL now is also kind
of dipping their toes in the waterthere, and you've been working with them
on that. What's that project sortof entail? Yeah? So I mean
at first the CPL, the projectI have at CPL was to do like
(35:17):
a weekly series where they would havea tournament for FIFA sports players to represent
like CPL teams, and then they'llbe built up to a final. Unfortunately,
you know, with the COVID nineteenstuff, that got put on hold
halfway through, and then we endedup doing a livestream tourment where it was
(35:37):
kind of like a prom or likea pro in real life. CPL player
would team up with an E sportsplayer and would do a tournament every every
Friday between all the clubs and Iactually worked out pretty well and it was
a good idea, a good wayto pivot because it was a way to
(36:00):
pivot, because I mean, whatcan you do right? You have to
get something out of this situation.Yeah, and you know it was good
to see, like you got tosee the personalities of the actual players.
You know, a lot of theplayers actually played a lot of FIFA and
a lot of them I should reallyreally good at FIFA. So I think
that kind of helped them all becauseyou know, I think the thing that
(36:21):
they're facing is that they have asmall market, and I think FIVA's a
way for them to branch out ofthat small market. In terms of Canada,
it's an access accessibility thing huge,and when people can't really go outside
to access anything, this is theway to do it. And I think
it's been an interesting endeavor and itmakes sense. Um yeah, I mean
just a lot of a lot ofthings, a lot of life. I
(36:44):
feel like, not just sports isabout name recognition or recognizing something vaguely familiar.
And then I'd be like, allright, I'll stick with this a
bit longer, and then you getyou get stuck with it. And I
think the CPL had that momentum andhopefully they can can continue continue to carry
that on foods. Sorry to wrapup. I love you know. You
always used to get questions or Iused to get questions when I was working
(37:06):
at EA, And my favorite questionI ever used to get because it was
it was full of such anti Canadianhatred that it used to make me laugh
and also sides, why why isFIFA made in Vancouver? And what the
hell the Canadians at soccer? Wasone of the things that I always used
to get, and they made itand the people made it seem like it
(37:27):
like we wouldn't allow anyone not Canadianinto the building to work on the game,
like this was a strictly Canadian operation. Oh boy, yeah it was.
You still get that. I mean, you know, even now as
a conselicated well, people think ofAmerica for some reason, I guess because
of the year accent. So they'relike, you know, what what do
you know about? Like what Italked about you, Like, what do
you know about Reunited? Man?Like, dude, like I've literally seen
(37:50):
every single private league season. You'resixteen, what are you talking about?
Um? But in terms of likeEA, yeah, like it's made of
Vancouver. I mean, you know, Electronic Arts probably got a whole bunch
of you know initially like a lotof tax breaks and stuff like that in
that province. So that's why theymade a studio there. But I mean
most of the key designers, mostof the team leaders, most of the
(38:10):
lead developers are not even Canadian.They're all you know, European for the
most part. I would say,um, British, German, you name
it. Um, So a lotof the team are not uh, they're
not Canadian at all. It's kindof funny. It's literally the United Nations
and that that office, and sokeep that in mind when you're curising the
game or applying to a corporate accountsome nonsensical rambling. Um, it's not
(38:37):
only Canadians you make it. Theperson reading that that complaint probably not having
an issue with whatever you're mad andand and even the stats are like they're
the stats are literally the team todo the stats are than literally in Germany.
So if you're man in Germans aboutthe stats are um. I first
(39:00):
started there, and just not thepower, but like when you're running accounts
to like seven million people, followingthe fear at the beginning was quite hilarious.
I did because it was weird tofully grasp how many people actually play
this game and then to be workingbehind the scenes with it. But it's
definitely cool. It's definitely a careeraltering experience. And two, I mean
(39:22):
you are exhibit a of having beinga life changing experience. Oh yeah,
it was definitely a life changing.Um. You know. The good thing
about working of the is that youcan branch out to pretty much like whatever
you want, especially in the videogame scene. Usually you're able to branch
out so many things. And like, like he said, since given was
so big, I mean you kindof like experience the most like sometimes the
(39:46):
worst situations, and just being insuch a big franchise, you just have
to handle things that like are wayabove the level that you're at, and
that just like gives you way moreexperience than like you can go to somewhere
else and it's not even gonna beit's you know, I'm gonna break a
slat appeared to where you went throughthat EA. So it really gives you
(40:07):
up for a lot of things inlife. It's Chew Boy chew more official
Torontonian. He has sworn off Vancouverforever, but I'm glad we have this
breaking news to send back over theWest. Coast too. Thanks so much,
man Ain't no problem. Welcome backto a football podcast. That was
(40:32):
our interview with Chew Mora, alsoknown as Chew Boy on the interwebs.
David I mentioned this with you,and I think the rise of Ultimate Team
and basically everything FIFA as really alteredthe way we look at the game of
soccer in general. And I wonder, like, when you were growing up,
(40:57):
how big of a role did FIFAplay, like your your absorption of
soccer, because I mean in NorthAmerica, even though if you had family
or you had family from other countriesoriginally like to be able to really immerse
yourself in soccer in the nineties wasreally tough. I will say this.
I own an Alan Shear in Newcastle, Jersey. I have no idea where
it is, and it's because ofFIFA. So they made Newcastle seventy bucks
(41:20):
one time because Mike Ashley still youknow, Mike Ashley still has that somewhere
exactly. It's part of the pitchwhen he tries to sell the team,
he's well, one time we soldthis jersey to this guy on Long Island.
But it was huge. Oh toWorld Cup game. I still remember
you had the player with the starunderneath it who was the best player on
the field, and you could tackleguys off the field. So that was
(41:44):
awesome, but I still remembered itwas a massive part of getting into the
game. And I've talked to peopleI've worked around, some of the people
I'm sure that you've interacted with inthe MLS circles who say, like,
what it did for you for thesport, it can do for people who
already like soccer for amis and Ithink Two Boy talked about that of what
they've done in the efforts they've made. Because everyone already plays FIFA, everyone
(42:07):
plays as Chelsea Barcelona and Real Madrid. Everyone knows the players on Chelsea,
Barcelona and Real Madrid. So ifyou can get people to play as Atlanta
and La and Montreal and all thosethings, you start to learn about it,
you start to care about it alittle bit, get connected to it.
It has a ton of potential.I think even if they're using all
the superstar players, even if yousee that Atlanta United kit or that Nashville
(42:29):
kit being used by a FIFA proand they're playing on quote unquote the biggest
stage, it matters and people willremember what that looks like and some of
the rules that they put in.I think initially what happened was all of
the pros would use the best players, who would usually be the same guys.
And when MLS decided to put inthat quota for how many MLS guys
you needed in your squad, itmade more people talk about them, and
(42:52):
it made more people examine who whoto use, and through that that conversation
was generated and I think that isone of the goals I remember FIFA for
me, I think it was thebird Camp cover edition of FIFA that got
me onto Arsenal got me on tofollowing the sports super closely, so that
tie was forever forged. And whenI went to live in South Korea,
(43:12):
one of the things I did whenI taught English there was play FIFA with
the kids and talk about the gamesand do match reports in English. So
it's something that has been into intertwinedwith my life for so long. And
to be able to go work therewas a bit of a dream and I
have I have a lot of respectfor these guys who are doing something basically
(43:34):
that's really never been done. AndJimmy, Jimmy Conrad's one of those people,
and so is Cho so so itwas a treat to get to chat
with them. But David, I'mgonna ask you for a bold prediction in
the sense that like, do youdo you think things like FIFA or other
video games are the primary draw toget younger fans in or do you think
(43:58):
it is gone beyond that realm wherelike the influencers now don't even have to
be like associated with soccer. Ithink if I knew this, I'd have
a lot more money than I currentlydid. I was asking, Hey,
I was asking. I was askingyou because I'm trying to fill out this
last slide in my PowerPoint deck.Then I got to present, so I
was gonna I was gonna ask you. Then I'll take a stab. It
(44:22):
is a big problem for other sportsthat I like a lot, and I
use tennis as an example of Idon't think it's the problem with tennis is
it's an expensive sport in some cases, and I think the viewership generally tends
to skew older at the events becausethe tickets are so expensive. But for
the most part, young people stillwatch it. It's just really hard to
(44:43):
get into the game because there reallyis no good vehicle for it in video
games, and I think that's aconversation that people are having, and every
time that does happen, FIFA isthe example that's used. It's like,
this is the dream of what itcould be like to get people in.
So I don't think there is anequivalent. I think this remains the best
way, and it is. Reallyit's a huge money making operation for EA,
(45:05):
of course, but globally we talkyou about football in general and transfer
fees and everything, but this industryand what they're doing an ultimate team in
etc. It's pretty mindfuling. Yeah, I would agree with you. I
think the only comp is like theInstagram highlight culture of the NBA and how
that's brought people in who probably don'tsit and watch a full NBA game ever,
(45:28):
maybe outside of the finals, butthey're NBA fans and they know everything
that's going on because of the culturethat league's built. I think FIFA is
like the only comp to that ofa way to bring people in who maybe
don't really care or don't watch thegames, or you know, aren't that
into it. It's like a differentpart of the world that exists, but
it's I mean, it's amazing howbig it is. Just like everyone plays
(45:52):
of all ages. Anyone who hasever picked up a video game of any
sort, console, whatever individual onthem, doesn't matter. They've all everyone's
played FIFA. So it's huge andI think it's gonna be interesting. What
fascinates me is like you talk aboutchew Boy being an early adopter, is
like, we don't know where thisends. And so for me, people
(46:14):
who choose to operate in space likethat of like, there's potential, but
there's no guarantees that. I'm alwaysimpressed by people like that. And that's
like Jimmy Conrad. Jimmy Conrad goesto foot In with a thousand levels of
energy to things he has no ideawill work where I'm like, I don't
know, I'll just do the thingthat I've heard of before and like not
even put that much energy into it. People like that are impressive because those
(46:35):
are the people that change things andpush things and create new industries and create
new ways of operating in industries,and you remember them thirty years later as
like a big famous name. ButI think this is a space where you're
starting to see we're watching people becomethose people. Times have changed, mister
GOSSP but we move forward. Areminder, we are on Patreon. For
(46:57):
dollars a month gets you exclusive contentcutting our interview series where we talk to
the newsmakers in football. You alsoget a nineteen ninety four World Cup trading
card pack set from Upper Deck.That's it for this week for mister Goss
and myself. Thank you for listeningto a football podcast. We will talk
to you suit
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