January 18, 2023 • 42 mins
On this week’s episode of AskAFP we replay a couple of earlier interviews we’ve had. We welcome to the show Jimmy Conrad and Andrew May to discuss where things stand with the American Soccer program, and Americans abroad and in the MLS. You wont want to miss it!
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Follow @AFootballPod on Twitter! While you're there say hello to @DesaiDevang, @EmpireGass and @SeanKeay.
If you enjoyed today’s show, please rate A Football Podcast 5-Stars on Apple Podcasts. See you again next week for an all new AFP.
Have you joined Patreon? Get ad-free episodes and access to discord: https://www.patreon.com/afootballpodcast
Follow @AFootballPod on Twitter! While you're there say hello to @DesaiDevang, @EmpireGass and @SeanKeay.
If you enjoyed today’s show, please rate A Football Podcast 5-Stars on Apple Podcasts. See you again next week for an all new AFP.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:22):
Hello, and welcome to AFP.My name is Today to side. I'm
joined as usual by mister David Gass, continuing our lookback series through January.
David, as we take some timeoff, but we didn't want to keep
the content well dry, so welook back to some interviews that you and
I did respectively a while back,and we'll called us the US based episode,
(00:46):
the US focused episode. But Italked to Jimmy Conrad a while back
about a lot of things. Imet Jimmy when I was working with the
EA Sports Chief of Franchise, andhe was really really lovely person to meet
at that time as I was findingmy feet in the new industry. But
he's remained a good friend, andwe talked about a variety of US soccer
(01:07):
topics, including some run ins withsome some coaches in this day. I
know there's a great Octavio Zimbrono anecdotethat led to someone jumping in our DM
soon after, which was quite hilarious. David, But yeah, I'm just
saying that got us all a follower. Yeah, we'll let you guess who
that is. But yeah, David, Jimmy's a great dude and enjoy chatting
(01:30):
with him. Who did you talkto? Yeah, Jip, I just
want to echo Jimmy is fantastic.There are not a lot of people you
meet in this industry that aren't genuinelike the way they are, and I
think he's He's also a brilliant soccermine. Which is what I'm excited about
with him is he draws so manypeople in because of his energy, because
of his sense of humor and allthose things. But then he really does
(01:53):
like help raise the level of thesoccer conversation while doing that, which is
exactly what we need. And Ichatted with Andrew May who's an academy coach
at RSL. He was an academycoach at the LA Galaxy before and before
that. I've known him for anumber of years. I think he's one
of the best youth coaches in thecountry, and he is someone who is
(02:15):
using his life to build better playersand better experiences for soccer young soccer players
in our country. And for anyonewho watched the World Cup on the US
or Canada side and said, what'snext or how do we get from where
they're at to where Argentina and Portugaland Spain are at, that's a lot
(02:37):
of what we talked about in Andrew'sone of the people who's working on that,
and I have a ton of respectfor him as a professional. I'm
fortunate enough to know him very well. I love watching his team's play wherever
I've seen them. Awesome. Yeah, two great interviews that we really enjoyed,
and we hope you enjoyed them aswell, and look forward to chat
(03:00):
with you all soon as we getback to live AFPs. But hope you
enjoyed these sit downs with Jimmy Conradand Andrew May and welcome back to a
Football podcast. Our guest today andMLS Best eleven member, a member of
(03:21):
the US MES national team, acontent creator. He's got more hats on
than Carmelo Anthony and Cam Newton combined. It's Jimmy Conrad. That's my favorite
intro, I think of all time. I appreciate that. Jimmy. The
first time we met, I thinkit was twenty seventeen in Miami at a
(03:43):
FIFA E Sports event, and youwere busy at the time, much busier
than I was, as I wasbehind the scenes and you're on camera.
But we got to talking briefly aboutjust your experiences in general. Once.
Since that time, you've been awell of information. And today I wanted
to start with a name, andI wonder what you could tell me about
him right off the hop. Okay, I'm nervous. Now, Okay,
(04:09):
let's go with Bob Gansler. Oh, Bob Gansler. So he was the
nineteen ninety World Cup coach for US, the US the first time we had
qualified for the World Cup in fortyyears, And so he was somebody that
I admired from afar. I usedto be a loyal subscriber to Soccer America
(04:30):
when you get those print newspaper magazinesthat they'd send to your house, and
so I knew a lot about Bob. I didn't necessarily know a lot about
his playing style, but I wasfamiliar or his coaching style and how he
liked his teams to play. ButI was familiar with all the players and
the fact that he was part ofhistory getting us back into the World Cup.
And then I had a chance toplay for him in two thousand and
(04:50):
three with the Kansas City Wizards atthe time, and I got traded from
the Santa's Earthquakes. And he istough. He is a tough customer.
You have to do a lot totry to please him, and even then
I don't feel like it's possible.I don't know if he's ever entirely pleased.
(05:11):
And I think ultimately that toughened meup, and I think it helped
prepare me for adversity down the lineand not to maybe seek out approval from
an authority figure in some ways thatI just had to go out there and
put myself in a good position tomake plays and just kind of focus on
the here and now and not I'ma bit of a people pleaser. I
think that's still comes out, youknow, in some ways, and even
(05:34):
in the media career that I havenow, I still like to make people
smile and try to gain approval insome ways. But when it's your coach,
it's different. It's a little bitmore of an intimate relationship. And
to give you a good example ofour let's say tough love. I got
named as the two thousand and fiveMLS Defender of the Year and we found
out the morning before they were goingto announce it, and obviously I'm buzzing.
(05:56):
Everybody's really thrilled for me. Inthe locker room and as we had
out to the training fields. Bobpulls me aside and he says, I
should probably set this up better.We're walking. It's kind of like a
like a I don't know if youguys have Taster's Choice in Canada, but
like this, this really soft likefrom Afar probably looks like this really intimate
moment. This this coach has hisarm around me and he's telling me how
(06:17):
how great I am and all thisstuff, you know, but really what
he tells me is you only deservethat for sixty percent of the year.
And yeah, and I was Thathurt me. It hurt me a lot.
And then he went on to givethe Defender of the Year for our
team to another player, and hewas really trying to send a message that
it still wasn't good enough. AndI went home. So you think you'd
(06:39):
go home, you'd be proud ofyourself. You're calling your parents, you
know, my wife, You're tellingeverybody that you got named MLS Defender of
the Year. And obviously, inthe big picture, it's an individual award,
so you know, I'm more ofa team guy. But it did
reinforce and it's something you can nevertake away from you. And really be
kind of an example of look whathard work can get you if you put
(07:00):
your mind to it. But Iwent home and I cried. I cried.
I was upset that my coach,who I thought had my back,
didn't really feel like he did havemy back. But ultimately he did.
You know, we worked through it. I don't remember actually ever talking about
it, but you know, hemade a men's for it, and he
said some really nice things about me, you know, ahead of the World
Cup, and I think he thoughthe was preparing me to be even better
(07:23):
that that wasn't good enough, Andin some ways I thank him for that,
but it was. It was hardat the time. So I think
that's that's a piece of evidence forour the tough love that him and I
shared. I mentioned Ganzler because I'veread in interviews you've done in the past
you cite that time period you mentionedas kind of a turning point for you
in your career, like the Preckygets hurt in Kansas City and the formation
(07:45):
changes and you guys have to dosomething different, and that at least is
something different for you where you're playingand maybe where you're you're more natural position
where you want to play. Youbecome an All Star defended of your finalists,
and it's that that tough love approachfrom Bob Gansler kind of helps you
get there. But I wonder ifwe pivot to someone else and the coach
you had right before that of frankyallab By all counts. Frank allab and
(08:09):
yourself had a good relationship with SanJose. But that trade obviously might have
been a surprise to you. Butwas there a big change? Was there
a big gap? Did you findyourself gravitating more to that kind of tough
love here? Did you find yourselfbeing able to be malleable and adapting to
a situation. I would like tosay more of the latter that I was
(08:30):
trying to please whoever was in chargein some ways, so malluable is probably
the best way to describe it.I would like to think that with regard
to frank Yallup in particular, whenhe came into San Jose his first year
in two thousand and one, thatwas his first year ever as a head
coach, and he and to hiscredit, didn't try to pretend that he
(08:54):
knew at all. And I lovethat part of him. I love that
first year with him, we obviouslyhad a special team did a very good
job along with the organization of gettingJeff a goose. We won the Landon
Donovan Sweepstakes. We ended up winningMLS Cup that year, but we had
a really hungry, hungry team.And what I loved about him is that
he would push us, but hewould say, hey, listen, I
know you guys are out here becauseyou love it. I know you're not
(09:16):
out here to make money. Imean, obviously you're trying to pay bills,
but it's not because you're making millionsof dollars. You're doing it because
you have a passion for the game. And he really tapped into that for
that group in particular. And Iremember something I'll always think about was that
he gave us Wednesdays off, likeWednesdays were completely off, which I thought
was a really bold move. Alot of young coaches in particular are probably
(09:37):
want to be control freaks. Theywant to control every element of it because
they just don't know how to coachyet. But for him it was the
opposite. He had Dom Kineers asan assistant, who ended up being a
very successful head coach at his timewith San jose And and Houston Dynamo,
and they just had a nice vibeabout him, and we had a good,
solid core guys. And I lovedthe Wednesdays off because for me,
(09:58):
in particul it gave you a dayof the week where the shine wasn't on.
We didn't have to perform. Soyou could either have that that time
off as a mental break, oryou could use it go work on your
game. I would go into racquetballcourts and kick the ball around, or
kick a tennis ball to keep continuingto sharpen my skills, or work on
a long ball. I couldn't hita very good long ball consistently, let's
say, so working on what thatthat technique looked like. Or go hit
(10:20):
the weight room and not have anyeyes on you. You had a day
not to have that pressure to perform. And I love that. Now his
second year, after we had thatsuccess, we didn't have those Wednesdays off
anymore. I feel like he gotinto his own head a little bit,
like he started to he's written thepress. Maybe may I don't know.
I mean, you'd have to askhim. But I really was always disappointed
(10:41):
that we didn't stick with it,you know, it clearly worked in some
ways, and it allowed i'd say, other players who were dads maybe to
spend some more time with their kids. He gave us those meaningful moments,
and so that was I always wonderedthat I never actually followed up with him.
I thought Frank was a good coachand very approachable, you know,
you could talk to him. However, that being said, I my foot,
you know, like in the preseason, like a month into his tenure,
(11:05):
and when I come back full health, the team's on a nineteen game
on beaten streak, and I couldn'tget back into the team, and so
I was starting to play, Iwas training well and all that stuff,
and I went in there and said, Hey, what do I have to
do to get back on the team. And so he just told me a
list of things, and I wroteeverything down, because that's that's just how
I am. I'd like, tellme what I got to do, and
I'll do it. And so Iwrote everything down. And fast forward two
(11:26):
months later, and we're still kindof in the midst of the unbeaten streak,
but we're starting there's some more cracks. We're not winning games, were
drawing a lot more of them.And I just needed to talk. I
needed to have him listen to beingfrustrated and I'm training well, I'm training
maybe better than the other guys.But he didn't want to change anything up
and I respect that, but Ishowed him this list. I remember clear
(11:46):
as day. We were in Tampa. I didn't get to play, so
I went for a run and Icame back in and we had a talk
and I'm like, hey, Idid all these things that you asked me
to do, and I still can'tget in the team. And he was
he didn't know what to say.I don't think he'd ever really been around
a player that was that maybe dedicatedto getting better at their craft and in
that way and maybe that OCD aboutit. So that was a good learning
(12:09):
experience, I think for both ofus, and really informs how all coach
as well, in terms of howyou communicate to players and how they absorbed
information. And I've learned little thingsfrom a lot of my coaches. But
yeah, Frank Alp I thought itwas great, you know. I he
ended up winning. In two thousandand three, they traded me away and
I was so bummed because we lostthem in the playoffs. I really wanted
to beat them to prove that theyhad made a bad decision, like any
(12:31):
player would in that situation, andwe were unfortunate to loose to them.
That was the famous San Jose theycame back from four goals down against the
Galaxy one five four. We would, we would, we were playing the
winner of that, and we thoughtwe had the Galaxy for sure. We
had the Galaxy's number, I thinkfor a couple of years there, and
unfortunately San Jose pulled it out andthey end up coming back and beating us
as well. So yeah, I'mpulling a bit of the Last Dance timeline
(12:56):
jumping here, So forgive me ifI jump from nineteen ninety nine to two
thousand and six and then back tonineteen ninety seven. But I do actually
want to start at the very beginning, Jimmy, because we're in Canada,
we're based in Canada's a lot ofTFC alum involved in this podcast. And
as I was going through your career, and I've noticed a very familiar name
(13:16):
in Octavio Zambrano, who is coachingthe Galaxy. When you first tried to
enter the lead when you did thetrial, was he was he the coach,
observing that he was Yeah, it'san interesting name you bring up.
So I don't have very fond memoriesof Octavio Zambrado. He lied to my
face a couple of times, andit's hard when you're a young player and
(13:37):
you're hungry for that attention and love. In some ways, I should probably
is this a therapy session. Ifeel like we should be, And I
think there's a consistent theme here ofme searching for approval. But I would
say that when I went into Ididn't get drafted. We won the national
championship at UCLA ninety seven and therewas five seniors and the other four guys
(13:58):
got afted into MLS and I didn't, And I was pretty heartbroken. I
thought, I'm on the best collegeteam in the country. How do I
not get at least a sniff intoa trial for an MLS team or get
drafted or whatever. Now that endedup being a blessing in disguise, and
I can get into that in asecond. But I went into the office.
Was Ziggi Schmid, who was thecoach, rest in peace, and
(14:20):
he or I could tell that heknew that he should have done something more
for me. Now, I wasthe one player that he didn't recruit out
of those seniors. I was thewalk on, and he didn't make any
promises to my family about getting meto a higher level. I'm sure he
did that for the other guys.You know, once MLS starts and all
this stuff, I'm going to makesure that your players or your kids go
(14:41):
on to play in MLS. Andso I know he worked very hard to
get those guys drafted. He didn'thave to do that for me. He
didn't make any promises to my parents. And so when I went into his
office and be like, I don'tknow what to do, can you help
me? He immediately called picked upthe phone and called Octavo and just got
me to start training with the Galaxy. So I went there and I I
thought I played really well. Iwas pretty proud of myself. I thought
(15:03):
that I had done enough to warrantmore consideration, more of a longer look,
and he did as well. Sothere's this one day at the end
of these two weeks before they're leavingfor Florida for the official quote unquote,
I'm doing air quotes. Can't seeme, but the official preseason camp.
So as I walk in for thatlast day. The equipment manager brings me
(15:24):
a full bag of stuff and hegoes, hey, you're gonna go to
Florida with us, And everybody's buzzingfor me at this point. And on
the team at that point are GregVanny, Robin, Frasier Cowichman. I
think these are familiar names for youguys, and they're all they're all defenders
as well, so right, so, I think they were really looking out
for me and always had been lookingout for me ever since that time when
(15:46):
I won them over that you know, somebody heart on his sleeve, given
everything that he can for the team, type player and so. And then
Matt Reis was there too, hehad gotten drafted. And this is a
really important part of the story.So at that point, go to practice.
I am buzzing, man, I'mlooking through them my stuff. I
can't wait to go home. Thisis pre cell phone, so you know,
tell my parents and my friends andtell everybody and Matt Reese. We're
(16:11):
still UCLA kids, you know,we're still trying to tie up our school
stuff. We're still living on campusor whatever. Well, he leaves about
fifteen to twenty minutes before me,so he's getting back to campus before I'm
gonna get there. And as Iwalk out, I'm one of the last
people to leave because I just can'tbelieve it. You know, I'm getting
they're giving me a pair of cleats, like I don't have to buy a
(16:32):
pair of cleats, you know,my gaps at this buzzing dude. I
mean so, so if if youcan imagine this, I was a kid.
I grew up in LA and likethe Galaxy played inside the Rose Bowl.
When I was a kid growing up, I played outside the Rose Bowl
and where they where they parked carsduring big games. So so I was
always on the outside looking in.And to have the opportunity to maybe play
(16:53):
for the team that plays inside thestadium was pretty surreal for me. So
there's a lot of emotion hied upin the possibility of playing for the Galaxy.
As I walk out, Octavio opensthe door from his coach coach or
his coach's office and says, hey, actually, can you can you leave
(17:14):
your bag of stuff here because wedon't know for sure if we can take
you. And I said, oh, okay, okay, yeah, So
I went and sat back down.I sat well, they're kind of explain
it to man, I went andsat down and put it. They brought
me in and this kind of meansitting down there telling me this, and
I said, well, what areyou gonna say? Okay, so I
just set my stuff down, andyou don't know whether to cry yet,
(17:36):
because there's really nothing to cry aboutyet. You know, you're like,
oh, what's happening here? SoI walk out and now I'm a little
like uncertain, and I don't Idon't know how to act. I don't
know who. I don't want totell anybody at this point until I know
for sure. But to remind youof what Matt Reid and Matt Reese was
already twenty minutes ahead of me goingback home. So I get back to
(17:57):
UCLA and I'm trying. I hadto just keep it cool and not say
anything. And Matt Reesis told everybody. I mean, he's so excited for
me because he knew I was alittle crestfallen that I didn't get drafted,
and he told everybody. Everybody's givingme high five, pat me on the
back, and you know, comingover to like, oh, going out
of their way to come over tomy apartment to say congratulations, you know,
and I dude, at that point, you're faking it. So Octavio
(18:22):
told me, hey, hey,we'll call you at six pm. This
is at this is at noon orone pm or whatever. We'll call you
at six pm and let you knowwhether you're going or not. So I'm
just sitting there by the phone thewhole time, waiting, waiting, waiting.
Six pm comes nothing, nothing,nothing, No, nobody calls me.
Seven pm. I track down Octavio'snumber. I call and he goes,
(18:44):
yeah, you're not going. We'llsee in two weeks. And he
hangs out wow, yeah, andthat was Yeah. Is that man management,
Jimmy, Is that reverse man management? Not managing man at all.
I think he just didn't care.I just don't think he saw me as
the player that I was gonna be. I don't think he saw any of
(19:04):
the potential. I think he probablyhad other people in mind. There's rumors
that Octavio was a guy that wason the take, you know, So
I don't mean that in a waywhere anything illegal. He was just doing
where I think happens a lot aroundthe world. So yeah, yeah,
(19:25):
So he would take a cut ofany player that they signed, so if
a player signed for a hundred,he would tell that player, yeah,
you're getting ninety, and he'd takethe ten. You know, I think
that's common practice frankly around the world, So I don't I don't begrudge him
for that if especially if that's howyou grew up and that's the game that
you know. But it wasn't helpingme at all because I wasn't in a
position to to grease Grease's pockets.I will say though, when I went
(19:49):
down to the San Diego Flash atthat point, I was still training with
the Galaxy and they came back andI felt sorry for myself and work through
that. But I went down tothe Flash and that was That was the
A League at the time, whichis probably comparable to USL Championship or similar
level, And it was the bestthing that ever could have happened to me.
(20:10):
Had I been with the Galaxy rightaway, with the defenders I mentioned
in front of me, Vanni FrasiercallichmanOn, Danny Pania, all these guys,
I wouldn't have played. Sure Iwould have gained some knowledge and to
be around those guys and to seewhat it takes to be a professional but
I wouldn't have played, and Ithink that would have stunted my development a
little bit. Instead, I godown to San Diego, though I make
(20:32):
barely any money, and I'm sleepingon floors and eating top ramen and all
that stuff. Is one of myfavorite years as a pro, because you
have to really decide if you wantit or not. And I played thirty
games in six months, and becausewe were so close to the border,
we got to play against n Coaxaand the Zolas Cholos and a couple of
(20:52):
Legua ma Keys teams that were comingup to just for their training or their
preseason or whatever. So you're addingsome really meaningful games against some very good
competition, and not only that,you learn what it takes to to be
a pro. How to prepare fora game, how to deal with adversity
within the game, how to adaptto different formations and the players that are
better than you. How do youdefend a players that you know is better
(21:15):
than you? How do you figurethat stuff out? That's stuff that you
probably can't get in training. Youcan maybe get a little bit of it,
but you can't get it as consistentlyas you do when you play in
games, so going down to thelower levels as a blessing in disguise.
And what the best part about this. And I'm bringing this up because me
and Joe Cannon, who ended upwas on that team as well, we
both got called up to San Josefor a friendly and we did well enough
(21:36):
that he wanted to sign us thenext year. And I got a call,
and I think you'll recognize this name, but I got a call at
my home from Ivan Gazitis, who'snow no, yeah, yeah, Gazitis
was the He's like a deputy commissionerunder I think it was Doug something.
I can't remember the first thing.I can't remember the first names commissioners name.
(21:56):
But he he called and he said, hey, listen, Santose wants
to extend you an offer for twentyfour thousand dollars a year. I was
like, oh my god, that'samazing. I'm so excited it get to
me be a professional athlete. Imean the money, but whatever, it
didn't matter so much as just thechance to be able to say I play
an MLS. But he added,the Galaxy have also put an offer for
(22:18):
you as well, so you arein a unique position that you can sign
for either team, and I saidthe Galaxy now now Octavio's Sombrono wants me,
because somebody else wants me. Iwas like, this is some bullshit,
dude like that. No, asmuch as I wanted to play in
the Rose Bowl and I wanted toplay for the Galaxy and I wanted to
play for the team that is inthe area where I grew up, I
(22:41):
can absolutely not play for Octavio's Sombrono, and so I signed with San Jose.
That's what you call a gangster.Ladies and gentlemen, mister Conrad.
Always a pleasure. Yeah, thanksfor having me. All right, Well,
(23:02):
you guys asked about academies. Youwanted to know about MLS academies.
Where have they been, where arethey going, what's been successful, what
hasn't. So I've racked my brainand found the expert, the one person
to come on that ows this insideand out, has had so much success
continuing to push the envelope though,and that's Andrew may rsl Academy Staff Coast.
Andrew, thanks for joining us.Oh, thank you for having me.
(23:25):
Happy New Year, So happy NewYear to you. You're currently I
think still in Southern California where you'refrom, but you are heading back to
Salt Lake City in a little bitwhere you're currently coaching. And then of
course you have a deep background coachingin southern California as well. Give people
a quick rundown on your background andwhat you've done. Yeah, perfect.
(23:45):
So born race here in southern California, Orange County, to be more specific,
have basically done everything, you know, like every young player aspiring to
be a professional, you know,didn't really happen for me, how to
go in different different directions and reallyenjoyed youth and really enjoyed coaching and started
doing that full time very very young. So now I'm entering my twentieth season
(24:08):
as a as a coach, andyeah, so all my experiences I think
have helped me. As you guysknow, Southern California is a beast of
its own um and yeah, doneeverything from grassroots to high schools to colleges,
and then of course when the MLSacademies came around, I had got
an opportunity to work with Achieva's USA, you remember that one, And then
(24:33):
went from there and worked at Strikersfor a little bit, which is a
club here with Matthew Hoppy and playerslike that. Uh and then yeah,
when went off to the Galaxy andwas there for a few years with the
Galaxy, and now I find myselfin Utah working with Rialsa Lake Southern California
kid in Salt Lake City. That'sthe dream, That's that's what we all
put together, right. Yeah,so I get I've I beat the storm.
(24:56):
I came here and back to Californiaand enjoyed the beach for a little
bit, and as I go backtoday, it'll be snowing. So so
let's let's start with the big questionthat that prompted this interview, and then
we'll get into all the pieces ofit. But had a fan, Jason
g ask, I'd be interested toget your take on MLS academies across MLS.
He said, where have they been, where are they now? And
(25:18):
what would you like to see goingforward? And we've talked about that a
little bit on the show, butyou are now the expert, So let's
start with where have they been?What would you say from your time with
chief us USA to where you whatyou see in RSL and around the league.
Now, where have MLS academies beenand where are they now, I
mean it's night and day nowhere whereit's been. You know, achieve us,
(25:41):
you know, going back there.Like I said, I had done
grass roots before, I had doneregular clubs and different things like that,
and going to achieve us there wasa professional feel to it. But at
the same time we were training ata park in Bell Gardens, California here
and you know, yes, youhave a certain connection with the first team,
(26:02):
but in reality it there was aseparation, right. You just kind
of felt like a little bit betterthan normal club soccer. So we had
to be creative, find different waysto connect everybody and do different things like
that. But you know, likeI said, I think that having experience
moving from Chivas and seeing different academiesnot only in this country but across the
(26:26):
world, you could see that wewere still far behind in terms of infrastructure
and everything. So although it wasa step up for me and it was
eye opening for me, I couldstill see that it was you know,
still needed massive, massive improvement andneeded a better infrastructure, that's for sure.
So let's start with facilities, becauseyou mentioned the field. You talk
about infrastructure, not every academy aroundthe world, right, I think San
(26:48):
Lorenzo talks about they used two fieldsand a brick wall. But they've had
you know, I think the lastWorld Cup they had the most players out
of their academy in a World Cup, all of them obviously playing for a
Tina. So it's not everything,but what have you seen in the jump
in facilities and infrastructure and maybe whatare the keys that are necessary? Yeah,
(27:08):
so that's crazy. Uh, Likeyou said, a lot of European
teams they come here and they areblown away by the facilities. You know,
the amount of investment that has beenput in, you know, to
these things. And you look atAustin's, you look at Atlanta as Philly,
and obviously at Salt Lake we haveeverything, but it's it's incredible the
amount of investment that has been putinto these academies and these guys are blown
away by it. And um andthat's just the testament to the owners and
(27:33):
everything and in the front office andeverything to to put those visions into place
and for the improvement of youth development. And I just think that when I
when I when I look at theinfrastructure, when I look at the facilities,
um. You know, of coursethat's only one piece of the pie,
right, and there has to bedifferent layers to it and how it
all works, right, Um,but I think that without that, without
(27:56):
that in place, I'm just notsure you can be taken as serious.
I love San Lorenzo's example. I'ma big Argentinian fan as well, but
uh but yeah, the reality isyou need a field, right, You
need you need fields, You needyour own you need your own area because
(28:17):
that's contact hours, that's an abilityto train when you need to and work
around those types of things. Notoh this other club has it in you
know, a half an hour andhey, you guys, you got to
get off or you're waiting for themto. So to have your own facility
is key, you know, Butthen what you do with it is uh
yeah, a different story. Andobviously at RSL you mentioned you guys have
(28:41):
maybe the best in the country orin the league across the US and Canada.
Outside of those playing fields, whatare the things that are important when
you talk about weight rooms and videoand all that stuff, even for players
at a young level. Yeah,I mean that that's the key, the
contact hours that you're able to have. And so you know, at Ursel
(29:06):
having you know, the dormitories,right, So we have a living on
the campus, right, So there'sthis living situation where the players are are
are living together, they're eating together. We have a school there as well,
right, so they go to acharter school that's on site. Everything
is in the same location. Andthen from there, you know, they
go and train. The first teamtrains um you know, the Monarchs are
(29:29):
there as well, so everybody's inone's central area. And when I talk
about infrastructure, I mean that's it. That's everything. The weight room,
the video the dorms, the school, you know, the professional team right
there for these for these young players, and that is what inspires them that
it's just within reach. And again, like I said, where we were,
(29:51):
where I was at achieve Us,Yeah it was. It just didn't
it didn't have it right you wereyou were worried about could they get a
ride to training? You know,where were their parents at, where were
they eating? You know, allthe different distractions that come with being a
teenager, you know, and allthose types of things. So this helps
with contact hours. We can goon forever about contact hours and how important
that is, but essentially your facilityand infrastructure can help that you mentioned the
(30:17):
residency at RSL. I was goingto save this for later, but it
fits in here. So my understandingis at RSL's academy, even if you
live in Salt Lake, you livein the residency. Is that correct?
So every player lives on the campus. Yeah, that's correct, that's correct.
We have a we have a fewthat will commute, but yeah,
like one or two, but yeah, mostly everybody lives there. Then you
(30:41):
have clubs in other cities. Ithink c Cincinnati is one of them where
they don't really have any residency andevery player is a local player who comes
and plays. Do you think aresidency setup is the future one hundred percent
for every club or is it justwhat works for RSL but and Philly.
But maybe it's different for other people. Yeah, I think it's I think
it's uh, it's different for everybody. And I say that because in Utah
(31:07):
there's to a certain degree there's anisolation, right of clubs, of teams
and different things like that, anduh, you know, you need to
bring in players like Arizona as ahot market for us. Good players have
come out of there and we willcontinue to use that and we have oursel
Arizona which is down there, andso I think that that is huge,
(31:27):
huge to have, But I don'tthink it's for everybody. You know,
it has to be the right situation. I think just having a place for
the kids to stay is again it'sjust one one piece and if it fits
your vision for your club, great. For ourselves, it's perfect for us,
and yeah, maybe not necessarily forSan Jose earthquakes or you know,
(31:48):
or Portland or something like that.I know there's homestays, which is another
thing I see a lot, andyou want to talk about growth, look
at those initiatives. Right, Seattledid a really good initiative where they started
having homestays and guys like Danny Levahad opportunities to go from Vegas to there,
you know, and so you cansee that John Lucabuco same right,
(32:09):
homestay and how that has benefited ouryouth development here. So it doesn't necessarily
have to be the residency program.But again, how you how you're looking
at your contact hours and bringing thesetop players and making them better, so
and hearing what you're saying, andI think sort of how I see it
(32:30):
as well is maybe if you're ina city like a Dallas, LA,
and New York where there are playersthat are all right there that can also
get challenging games against each other withouthaving to live somewhere. Maybe those are
the places where residency isn't as necessary. Is that how you see it?
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, And and and you know there's there's
of course, you know, withtechnology and everything growing now in the world,
(32:54):
and especially with you know, kidsdoing these online schools and having the
courses and they're so used to itnow, you know, because that's school
is a big piece of it.Right, They still need an education.
These are still young players, butthey can supplement that with first team trainings,
(33:15):
second team trainings, different things likethat because they're online school right.
So there's there's some scenarios where academieswill put their top players in online programs
and monitor them and different things likethat. So again that way they're able
to, you know, again usemore contact hours for their development plans individually
(33:35):
for them or just allowing them toget more training or more video or different
things like that. So in mymind, the next step of where academies
have been where are they now iscoaching. And you've talked about facilities and
contact hours and all this. Thenyou have the coaches, who you know,
are the ones who kind of shapethe players. What have you seen
in the changes of maybe quality ofcoaches or coaching education and coaching ideas in
(34:00):
MLS from when you started to whereit stands now. Well, I think
the big thing that that we seea lot now is ex players, right
X players working and getting their badgesand going through those things, and and
uh, you know, been ableto I've been able to work with with
some former ex players that have beenworking on their licenses, and of course
(34:22):
they're sitting here thinking, wow,this is actually really hard, or hey
I never thought about that. Ijust played, you know. Um.
So the fact that education is there, um, you know, I know
there's a French course right that alot of coaches have taken, Academy directors
courses. Of course, they've they'verevamped US soccers revamped A licenses and all
(34:44):
their licenses really but so there's somuch opportunity for knowledge out there, um,
you know, and we're seeing thatpeople are interested in getting into the
game and coaching. Uh, coacheshave to be knowledgeable. I like the
fact that that you know, youkind of put them into these pieces infrastructure
and you know, and all thistype of stuff. But then the coaches,
(35:06):
right, they're the heartbeat to me. And maybe I'm biased because I'm
a coach, right, but they'rethe heartbeat of everything. Right. You
can have everything, but if youdon't have a good teacher in front of
you, you don't have a goodinstructor in front of you that understands how
to teach, well, then everythingcould be lost. Right. But yeah,
it's good coaching, education X players, different things like that I think
(35:27):
has really really helped. Have therebeen any specific drastic changes of the way
to coach players, game models,things that are focused on because I can
just say from me, you watcha young player in this country ten years
ago to now, Technically they're moreproficient now, So it feels like something
has changed, or maybe that's justthe way I'm choosing to see it.
(35:50):
I'm curious what you think, No, I think I think you're spot on.
You know, there's there's a lotof coaches that are serious thinkers about
the game. They want to begood at their craft, they're improving on
it. And this is how Isee coaching. Coaching is being able to
convey your thoughts of the game tothe players in a way that they can
understand. And to me, that'sthe big, big key. I think
within game models, within ways ofteaching, there's hundreds of ways to do
(36:15):
different things right. And we cantake from Spain, we can take from
Germany because that's what we do right. We can take from England, and
we can take all these these differentthings and we can say, oh,
we want to play like them orthe Barcelona where you know, we can
do all that. But the realityis, whichever one it is, the
coaches have to be able to conveythose ideas and thoughts to their players and
(36:37):
they have to have feel for that. I use a word I'm going to
say experience. My friends love whenI talk about experience. Experience plays a
role. And what I mean bythat is when you're a young coach and
you're starting out, you think it'soh, I drew it up on the
paper, it's going to be easy, no problem. Players will be able
to do this, They'll be ableto do that. That's how I see
it. But remember these are youngplayers. These are young players that are
(37:00):
uh, you know, coming intoa different environment where it's more and more
competitive, and there you maybe youused to being the best player on the
team. They haven't really been coached. Like all of a sudden, these
things hit you as a coach,and sometimes you freeze up as a young
you know, as a young coach, I remember, you know, I
would use high school trainings as experiments. That sounds funny, but I'd use
(37:21):
high school training as experiments to tobetter myself. I would use different exercises.
Did I like it? Did I'dnot like it? Did the players
like it? How did I delivermy message? And so I think that
that, you know, although wehave coaching education, although we have all
these licenses and things like that,it's experience that these these new coaches have
to get in front of the playersand they have to work with them,
(37:43):
and they don't necessarily have to behigh level players. That has nothing to
do with with with coaching whatsoever.It's being in front of a group of
players and being able to, youknow, convey those thoughts to them.
So the other part of conveying athought is sometimes a player physical being able
to understand you in terms of language. And one of the big conversations across
(38:04):
North American soccer has always been thereare so many communities that aren't being tapped
into, that aren't being given theopportunities. It feels, I think from
the outside for a lot of peoplethat what you and some of your co
workers that achieve us and then they'relike Galaxy was sort of the first time
we saw, especially that Southern CaliforniaMexican and Latin background start to get opportunities
(38:27):
in MLS. What do you seein terms of scouting recruitment into all communities
rather than maybe just the cliche communitiesthat were being represented in the eighties and
nineties and early two thousands in thepro soccer scene. Let me first off
by saying that having this pay toplay and you know, having these academies
(38:47):
again invest so much money and opportunitiesfor everybody without having a cost to it,
because like look at for re alsoLake, we fly everywhere to go
play teams. There's a massive costto that that most people wouldn't be able
to afford. Most players wouldn't beable to afford or go to a charter
school. So, you know,first and foremost that again is the growth
(39:12):
of MLS academies, right being ableto say, hey, we want you
to play for us. We're investingin you. Everything is you know,
virtually free of charge, right,So that's number one. But I guess
to the second point of the questionis whether or not I've seen the Latin
culture get more opportunities. Yes,I have, I've seen it. We
(39:32):
know that they're good players. Ithink we just need to get away from
just athletes and that's it. Ithink there's just there's I guess it's how
you define athletes and athleticism. Wecan get into that another day. But
but just the fact that I haveseen that, I think there's you know,
you guys, you have guys likeGoogle Perez as well. You know
who's Sho's now with El Salvador anddifferent things like that. Massive scouting,
(39:55):
massive scouting everywhere because there's talented playersin this country. But again, we
were so big. But it's peopleknowing the markets and that's key. Knowing
the markets, knowing that there's hotbedshere and just going out and finding them,
you know. And you see nowa lot of clubs again where we've
been and where we're going. Yousee that there's head of recruitment or head
(40:16):
of head of scouting for academies.I'm not talking about first teams. We're
talking about academies and they're out thereand they're looking and they're seeing, you
know, with with affiliate clubs thatthey have that that clubs have or not,
and doing partnerships with of course withall levels of soccer here in this
country. So it can be fromclubs, it can be from ODP,
(40:37):
it can be from ID two,all these things and and and the scouts
are out there, so again theinvestment is being put in to find these
and that's just giving more opportunity forplayers to be seen. And really that's
all they need. They just needopportunities to be seen, you know,
um and the serious player that isdedicated to it, you'll know right away,
(40:58):
you know when when you're when you'reout there watching. Andrew, thanks
for taking the time to join us. Good luck in your snow venture coming
forward, and we'll see you nexttime. I appreciate thank you so much
for having me on amazing stuff withAndrew. I could have gone for three
hours. We didn't talk about collegesoccer and homegrown territory rights and coaching development
(41:19):
and coaching licensing and youth national teamsand whether they matter anymore, and there's
just so many places we could go, and I hope that we get to
explore a lot of it here onAFP. That's what we're here for.
That's why I love this show.So if you have more great questions about
stuff like this or anything in thesoccer world, like Jason G, you
can go to our discord. Ifyou are a Patreon subscriber, and I
(41:42):
urge you to be a Patreon subscriber, jump on the discord, go to
our hashtag ask AFP section and sendingquestions because I'm always looking to be inspired
for new interviews and who should wetalk to and what should we talk about?
So I really appreciate it when allof you tell us what you're passionate
about and we can sort of learnabout it together. With that, that's
the end of our show. Soas I said, we'll be back with
(42:02):
normal programming coming up next week.And thanks so much for listening everyone,
and have a great one happy NewYear.
Hello, and welcome to AFP.My name is Today to side. I'm
joined as usual by mister David Gass, continuing our lookback series through January.
David, as we take some timeoff, but we didn't want to keep
the content well dry, so welook back to some interviews that you and
I did respectively a while back,and we'll called us the US based episode,
(00:46):
the US focused episode. But Italked to Jimmy Conrad a while back
about a lot of things. Imet Jimmy when I was working with the
EA Sports Chief of Franchise, andhe was really really lovely person to meet
at that time as I was findingmy feet in the new industry. But
he's remained a good friend, andwe talked about a variety of US soccer
(01:07):
topics, including some run ins withsome some coaches in this day. I
know there's a great Octavio Zimbrono anecdotethat led to someone jumping in our DM
soon after, which was quite hilarious. David, But yeah, I'm just
saying that got us all a follower. Yeah, we'll let you guess who
that is. But yeah, David, Jimmy's a great dude and enjoy chatting
(01:30):
with him. Who did you talkto? Yeah, Jip, I just
want to echo Jimmy is fantastic.There are not a lot of people you
meet in this industry that aren't genuinelike the way they are, and I
think he's He's also a brilliant soccermine. Which is what I'm excited about
with him is he draws so manypeople in because of his energy, because
of his sense of humor and allthose things. But then he really does
(01:53):
like help raise the level of thesoccer conversation while doing that, which is
exactly what we need. And Ichatted with Andrew May who's an academy coach
at RSL. He was an academycoach at the LA Galaxy before and before
that. I've known him for anumber of years. I think he's one
of the best youth coaches in thecountry, and he is someone who is
(02:15):
using his life to build better playersand better experiences for soccer young soccer players
in our country. And for anyonewho watched the World Cup on the US
or Canada side and said, what'snext or how do we get from where
they're at to where Argentina and Portugaland Spain are at, that's a lot
(02:37):
of what we talked about in Andrew'sone of the people who's working on that,
and I have a ton of respectfor him as a professional. I'm
fortunate enough to know him very well. I love watching his team's play wherever
I've seen them. Awesome. Yeah, two great interviews that we really enjoyed,
and we hope you enjoyed them aswell, and look forward to chat
(03:00):
with you all soon as we getback to live AFPs. But hope you
enjoyed these sit downs with Jimmy Conradand Andrew May and welcome back to a
Football podcast. Our guest today andMLS Best eleven member, a member of
(03:21):
the US MES national team, acontent creator. He's got more hats on
than Carmelo Anthony and Cam Newton combined. It's Jimmy Conrad. That's my favorite
intro, I think of all time. I appreciate that. Jimmy. The
first time we met, I thinkit was twenty seventeen in Miami at a
(03:43):
FIFA E Sports event, and youwere busy at the time, much busier
than I was, as I wasbehind the scenes and you're on camera.
But we got to talking briefly aboutjust your experiences in general. Once.
Since that time, you've been awell of information. And today I wanted
to start with a name, andI wonder what you could tell me about
him right off the hop. Okay, I'm nervous. Now, Okay,
(04:09):
let's go with Bob Gansler. Oh, Bob Gansler. So he was the
nineteen ninety World Cup coach for US, the US the first time we had
qualified for the World Cup in fortyyears, And so he was somebody that
I admired from afar. I usedto be a loyal subscriber to Soccer America
(04:30):
when you get those print newspaper magazinesthat they'd send to your house, and
so I knew a lot about Bob. I didn't necessarily know a lot about
his playing style, but I wasfamiliar or his coaching style and how he
liked his teams to play. ButI was familiar with all the players and
the fact that he was part ofhistory getting us back into the World Cup.
And then I had a chance toplay for him in two thousand and
(04:50):
three with the Kansas City Wizards atthe time, and I got traded from
the Santa's Earthquakes. And he istough. He is a tough customer.
You have to do a lot totry to please him, and even then
I don't feel like it's possible.I don't know if he's ever entirely pleased.
(05:11):
And I think ultimately that toughened meup, and I think it helped
prepare me for adversity down the lineand not to maybe seek out approval from
an authority figure in some ways thatI just had to go out there and
put myself in a good position tomake plays and just kind of focus on
the here and now and not I'ma bit of a people pleaser. I
think that's still comes out, youknow, in some ways, and even
(05:34):
in the media career that I havenow, I still like to make people
smile and try to gain approval insome ways. But when it's your coach,
it's different. It's a little bitmore of an intimate relationship. And
to give you a good example ofour let's say tough love. I got
named as the two thousand and fiveMLS Defender of the Year and we found
out the morning before they were goingto announce it, and obviously I'm buzzing.
(05:56):
Everybody's really thrilled for me. Inthe locker room and as we had
out to the training fields. Bobpulls me aside and he says, I
should probably set this up better.We're walking. It's kind of like a
like a I don't know if youguys have Taster's Choice in Canada, but
like this, this really soft likefrom Afar probably looks like this really intimate
moment. This this coach has hisarm around me and he's telling me how
(06:17):
how great I am and all thisstuff, you know, but really what
he tells me is you only deservethat for sixty percent of the year.
And yeah, and I was Thathurt me. It hurt me a lot.
And then he went on to givethe Defender of the Year for our
team to another player, and hewas really trying to send a message that
it still wasn't good enough. AndI went home. So you think you'd
(06:39):
go home, you'd be proud ofyourself. You're calling your parents, you
know, my wife, You're tellingeverybody that you got named MLS Defender of
the Year. And obviously, inthe big picture, it's an individual award,
so you know, I'm more ofa team guy. But it did
reinforce and it's something you can nevertake away from you. And really be
kind of an example of look whathard work can get you if you put
(07:00):
your mind to it. But Iwent home and I cried. I cried.
I was upset that my coach,who I thought had my back,
didn't really feel like he did havemy back. But ultimately he did.
You know, we worked through it. I don't remember actually ever talking about
it, but you know, hemade a men's for it, and he
said some really nice things about me, you know, ahead of the World
Cup, and I think he thoughthe was preparing me to be even better
(07:23):
that that wasn't good enough, Andin some ways I thank him for that,
but it was. It was hardat the time. So I think
that's that's a piece of evidence forour the tough love that him and I
shared. I mentioned Ganzler because I'veread in interviews you've done in the past
you cite that time period you mentionedas kind of a turning point for you
in your career, like the Preckygets hurt in Kansas City and the formation
(07:45):
changes and you guys have to dosomething different, and that at least is
something different for you where you're playingand maybe where you're you're more natural position
where you want to play. Youbecome an All Star defended of your finalists,
and it's that that tough love approachfrom Bob Gansler kind of helps you
get there. But I wonder ifwe pivot to someone else and the coach
you had right before that of frankyallab By all counts. Frank allab and
(08:09):
yourself had a good relationship with SanJose. But that trade obviously might have
been a surprise to you. Butwas there a big change? Was there
a big gap? Did you findyourself gravitating more to that kind of tough
love here? Did you find yourselfbeing able to be malleable and adapting to
a situation. I would like tosay more of the latter that I was
(08:30):
trying to please whoever was in chargein some ways, so malluable is probably
the best way to describe it.I would like to think that with regard
to frank Yallup in particular, whenhe came into San Jose his first year
in two thousand and one, thatwas his first year ever as a head
coach, and he and to hiscredit, didn't try to pretend that he
(08:54):
knew at all. And I lovethat part of him. I love that
first year with him, we obviouslyhad a special team did a very good
job along with the organization of gettingJeff a goose. We won the Landon
Donovan Sweepstakes. We ended up winningMLS Cup that year, but we had
a really hungry, hungry team.And what I loved about him is that
he would push us, but hewould say, hey, listen, I
know you guys are out here becauseyou love it. I know you're not
(09:16):
out here to make money. Imean, obviously you're trying to pay bills,
but it's not because you're making millionsof dollars. You're doing it because
you have a passion for the game. And he really tapped into that for
that group in particular. And Iremember something I'll always think about was that
he gave us Wednesdays off, likeWednesdays were completely off, which I thought
was a really bold move. Alot of young coaches in particular are probably
(09:37):
want to be control freaks. Theywant to control every element of it because
they just don't know how to coachyet. But for him it was the
opposite. He had Dom Kineers asan assistant, who ended up being a
very successful head coach at his timewith San jose And and Houston Dynamo,
and they just had a nice vibeabout him, and we had a good,
solid core guys. And I lovedthe Wednesdays off because for me,
(09:58):
in particul it gave you a dayof the week where the shine wasn't on.
We didn't have to perform. Soyou could either have that that time
off as a mental break, oryou could use it go work on your
game. I would go into racquetballcourts and kick the ball around, or
kick a tennis ball to keep continuingto sharpen my skills, or work on
a long ball. I couldn't hita very good long ball consistently, let's
say, so working on what thatthat technique looked like. Or go hit
(10:20):
the weight room and not have anyeyes on you. You had a day
not to have that pressure to perform. And I love that. Now his
second year, after we had thatsuccess, we didn't have those Wednesdays off
anymore. I feel like he gotinto his own head a little bit,
like he started to he's written thepress. Maybe may I don't know.
I mean, you'd have to askhim. But I really was always disappointed
(10:41):
that we didn't stick with it,you know, it clearly worked in some
ways, and it allowed i'd say, other players who were dads maybe to
spend some more time with their kids. He gave us those meaningful moments,
and so that was I always wonderedthat I never actually followed up with him.
I thought Frank was a good coachand very approachable, you know,
you could talk to him. However, that being said, I my foot,
you know, like in the preseason, like a month into his tenure,
(11:05):
and when I come back full health, the team's on a nineteen game
on beaten streak, and I couldn'tget back into the team, and so
I was starting to play, Iwas training well and all that stuff,
and I went in there and said, Hey, what do I have to
do to get back on the team. And so he just told me a
list of things, and I wroteeverything down, because that's that's just how
I am. I'd like, tellme what I got to do, and
I'll do it. And so Iwrote everything down. And fast forward two
(11:26):
months later, and we're still kindof in the midst of the unbeaten streak,
but we're starting there's some more cracks. We're not winning games, were
drawing a lot more of them.And I just needed to talk. I
needed to have him listen to beingfrustrated and I'm training well, I'm training
maybe better than the other guys.But he didn't want to change anything up
and I respect that, but Ishowed him this list. I remember clear
(11:46):
as day. We were in Tampa. I didn't get to play, so
I went for a run and Icame back in and we had a talk
and I'm like, hey, Idid all these things that you asked me
to do, and I still can'tget in the team. And he was
he didn't know what to say.I don't think he'd ever really been around
a player that was that maybe dedicatedto getting better at their craft and in
that way and maybe that OCD aboutit. So that was a good learning
(12:09):
experience, I think for both ofus, and really informs how all coach
as well, in terms of howyou communicate to players and how they absorbed
information. And I've learned little thingsfrom a lot of my coaches. But
yeah, Frank Alp I thought itwas great, you know. I he
ended up winning. In two thousandand three, they traded me away and
I was so bummed because we lostthem in the playoffs. I really wanted
to beat them to prove that theyhad made a bad decision, like any
(12:31):
player would in that situation, andwe were unfortunate to loose to them.
That was the famous San Jose theycame back from four goals down against the
Galaxy one five four. We would, we would, we were playing the
winner of that, and we thoughtwe had the Galaxy for sure. We
had the Galaxy's number, I thinkfor a couple of years there, and
unfortunately San Jose pulled it out andthey end up coming back and beating us
as well. So yeah, I'mpulling a bit of the Last Dance timeline
(12:56):
jumping here, So forgive me ifI jump from nineteen ninety nine to two
thousand and six and then back tonineteen ninety seven. But I do actually
want to start at the very beginning, Jimmy, because we're in Canada,
we're based in Canada's a lot ofTFC alum involved in this podcast. And
as I was going through your career, and I've noticed a very familiar name
(13:16):
in Octavio Zambrano, who is coachingthe Galaxy. When you first tried to
enter the lead when you did thetrial, was he was he the coach,
observing that he was Yeah, it'san interesting name you bring up.
So I don't have very fond memoriesof Octavio Zambrado. He lied to my
face a couple of times, andit's hard when you're a young player and
(13:37):
you're hungry for that attention and love. In some ways, I should probably
is this a therapy session. Ifeel like we should be, And I
think there's a consistent theme here ofme searching for approval. But I would
say that when I went into Ididn't get drafted. We won the national
championship at UCLA ninety seven and therewas five seniors and the other four guys
(13:58):
got afted into MLS and I didn't, And I was pretty heartbroken. I
thought, I'm on the best collegeteam in the country. How do I
not get at least a sniff intoa trial for an MLS team or get
drafted or whatever. Now that endedup being a blessing in disguise, and
I can get into that in asecond. But I went into the office.
Was Ziggi Schmid, who was thecoach, rest in peace, and
(14:20):
he or I could tell that heknew that he should have done something more
for me. Now, I wasthe one player that he didn't recruit out
of those seniors. I was thewalk on, and he didn't make any
promises to my family about getting meto a higher level. I'm sure he
did that for the other guys.You know, once MLS starts and all
this stuff, I'm going to makesure that your players or your kids go
(14:41):
on to play in MLS. Andso I know he worked very hard to
get those guys drafted. He didn'thave to do that for me. He
didn't make any promises to my parents. And so when I went into his
office and be like, I don'tknow what to do, can you help
me? He immediately called picked upthe phone and called Octavo and just got
me to start training with the Galaxy. So I went there and I I
thought I played really well. Iwas pretty proud of myself. I thought
(15:03):
that I had done enough to warrantmore consideration, more of a longer look,
and he did as well. Sothere's this one day at the end
of these two weeks before they're leavingfor Florida for the official quote unquote,
I'm doing air quotes. Can't seeme, but the official preseason camp.
So as I walk in for thatlast day. The equipment manager brings me
(15:24):
a full bag of stuff and hegoes, hey, you're gonna go to
Florida with us, And everybody's buzzingfor me at this point. And on
the team at that point are GregVanny, Robin, Frasier Cowichman. I
think these are familiar names for youguys, and they're all they're all defenders
as well, so right, so, I think they were really looking out
for me and always had been lookingout for me ever since that time when
(15:46):
I won them over that you know, somebody heart on his sleeve, given
everything that he can for the team, type player and so. And then
Matt Reis was there too, hehad gotten drafted. And this is a
really important part of the story.So at that point, go to practice.
I am buzzing, man, I'mlooking through them my stuff. I
can't wait to go home. Thisis pre cell phone, so you know,
tell my parents and my friends andtell everybody and Matt Reese. We're
(16:11):
still UCLA kids, you know,we're still trying to tie up our school
stuff. We're still living on campusor whatever. Well, he leaves about
fifteen to twenty minutes before me,so he's getting back to campus before I'm
gonna get there. And as Iwalk out, I'm one of the last
people to leave because I just can'tbelieve it. You know, I'm getting
they're giving me a pair of cleats, like I don't have to buy a
(16:32):
pair of cleats, you know,my gaps at this buzzing dude. I
mean so, so if if youcan imagine this, I was a kid.
I grew up in LA and likethe Galaxy played inside the Rose Bowl.
When I was a kid growing up, I played outside the Rose Bowl
and where they where they parked carsduring big games. So so I was
always on the outside looking in.And to have the opportunity to maybe play
(16:53):
for the team that plays inside thestadium was pretty surreal for me. So
there's a lot of emotion hied upin the possibility of playing for the Galaxy.
As I walk out, Octavio opensthe door from his coach coach or
his coach's office and says, hey, actually, can you can you leave
(17:14):
your bag of stuff here because wedon't know for sure if we can take
you. And I said, oh, okay, okay, yeah, So
I went and sat back down.I sat well, they're kind of explain
it to man, I went andsat down and put it. They brought
me in and this kind of meansitting down there telling me this, and
I said, well, what areyou gonna say? Okay, so I
just set my stuff down, andyou don't know whether to cry yet,
(17:36):
because there's really nothing to cry aboutyet. You know, you're like,
oh, what's happening here? SoI walk out and now I'm a little
like uncertain, and I don't Idon't know how to act. I don't
know who. I don't want totell anybody at this point until I know
for sure. But to remind youof what Matt Reid and Matt Reese was
already twenty minutes ahead of me goingback home. So I get back to
(17:57):
UCLA and I'm trying. I hadto just keep it cool and not say
anything. And Matt Reesis told everybody. I mean, he's so excited for
me because he knew I was alittle crestfallen that I didn't get drafted,
and he told everybody. Everybody's givingme high five, pat me on the
back, and you know, comingover to like, oh, going out
of their way to come over tomy apartment to say congratulations, you know,
and I dude, at that point, you're faking it. So Octavio
(18:22):
told me, hey, hey,we'll call you at six pm. This
is at this is at noon orone pm or whatever. We'll call you
at six pm and let you knowwhether you're going or not. So I'm
just sitting there by the phone thewhole time, waiting, waiting, waiting.
Six pm comes nothing, nothing,nothing, No, nobody calls me.
Seven pm. I track down Octavio'snumber. I call and he goes,
(18:44):
yeah, you're not going. We'llsee in two weeks. And he
hangs out wow, yeah, andthat was Yeah. Is that man management,
Jimmy, Is that reverse man management? Not managing man at all.
I think he just didn't care.I just don't think he saw me as
the player that I was gonna be. I don't think he saw any of
(19:04):
the potential. I think he probablyhad other people in mind. There's rumors
that Octavio was a guy that wason the take, you know, So
I don't mean that in a waywhere anything illegal. He was just doing
where I think happens a lot aroundthe world. So yeah, yeah,
(19:25):
So he would take a cut ofany player that they signed, so if
a player signed for a hundred,he would tell that player, yeah,
you're getting ninety, and he'd takethe ten. You know, I think
that's common practice frankly around the world, So I don't I don't begrudge him
for that if especially if that's howyou grew up and that's the game that
you know. But it wasn't helpingme at all because I wasn't in a
position to to grease Grease's pockets.I will say though, when I went
(19:49):
down to the San Diego Flash atthat point, I was still training with
the Galaxy and they came back andI felt sorry for myself and work through
that. But I went down tothe Flash and that was That was the
A League at the time, whichis probably comparable to USL Championship or similar
level, And it was the bestthing that ever could have happened to me.
(20:10):
Had I been with the Galaxy rightaway, with the defenders I mentioned
in front of me, Vanni FrasiercallichmanOn, Danny Pania, all these guys,
I wouldn't have played. Sure Iwould have gained some knowledge and to
be around those guys and to seewhat it takes to be a professional but
I wouldn't have played, and Ithink that would have stunted my development a
little bit. Instead, I godown to San Diego, though I make
(20:32):
barely any money, and I'm sleepingon floors and eating top ramen and all
that stuff. Is one of myfavorite years as a pro, because you
have to really decide if you wantit or not. And I played thirty
games in six months, and becausewe were so close to the border,
we got to play against n Coaxaand the Zolas Cholos and a couple of
(20:52):
Legua ma Keys teams that were comingup to just for their training or their
preseason or whatever. So you're addingsome really meaningful games against some very good
competition, and not only that,you learn what it takes to to be
a pro. How to prepare fora game, how to deal with adversity
within the game, how to adaptto different formations and the players that are
better than you. How do youdefend a players that you know is better
(21:15):
than you? How do you figurethat stuff out? That's stuff that you
probably can't get in training. Youcan maybe get a little bit of it,
but you can't get it as consistentlyas you do when you play in
games, so going down to thelower levels as a blessing in disguise.
And what the best part about this. And I'm bringing this up because me
and Joe Cannon, who ended upwas on that team as well, we
both got called up to San Josefor a friendly and we did well enough
(21:36):
that he wanted to sign us thenext year. And I got a call,
and I think you'll recognize this name, but I got a call at
my home from Ivan Gazitis, who'snow no, yeah, yeah, Gazitis
was the He's like a deputy commissionerunder I think it was Doug something.
I can't remember the first thing.I can't remember the first names commissioners name.
(21:56):
But he he called and he said, hey, listen, Santose wants
to extend you an offer for twentyfour thousand dollars a year. I was
like, oh my god, that'samazing. I'm so excited it get to
me be a professional athlete. Imean the money, but whatever, it
didn't matter so much as just thechance to be able to say I play
an MLS. But he added,the Galaxy have also put an offer for
(22:18):
you as well, so you arein a unique position that you can sign
for either team, and I saidthe Galaxy now now Octavio's Sombrono wants me,
because somebody else wants me. Iwas like, this is some bullshit,
dude like that. No, asmuch as I wanted to play in
the Rose Bowl and I wanted toplay for the Galaxy and I wanted to
play for the team that is inthe area where I grew up, I
(22:41):
can absolutely not play for Octavio's Sombrono, and so I signed with San Jose.
That's what you call a gangster.Ladies and gentlemen, mister Conrad.
Always a pleasure. Yeah, thanksfor having me. All right, Well,
(23:02):
you guys asked about academies. Youwanted to know about MLS academies.
Where have they been, where arethey going, what's been successful, what
hasn't. So I've racked my brainand found the expert, the one person
to come on that ows this insideand out, has had so much success
continuing to push the envelope though,and that's Andrew may rsl Academy Staff Coast.
Andrew, thanks for joining us.Oh, thank you for having me.
(23:25):
Happy New Year, So happy NewYear to you. You're currently I
think still in Southern California where you'refrom, but you are heading back to
Salt Lake City in a little bitwhere you're currently coaching. And then of
course you have a deep background coachingin southern California as well. Give people
a quick rundown on your background andwhat you've done. Yeah, perfect.
(23:45):
So born race here in southern California, Orange County, to be more specific,
have basically done everything, you know, like every young player aspiring to
be a professional, you know,didn't really happen for me, how to
go in different different directions and reallyenjoyed youth and really enjoyed coaching and started
doing that full time very very young. So now I'm entering my twentieth season
(24:08):
as a as a coach, andyeah, so all my experiences I think
have helped me. As you guysknow, Southern California is a beast of
its own um and yeah, doneeverything from grassroots to high schools to colleges,
and then of course when the MLSacademies came around, I had got
an opportunity to work with Achieva's USA, you remember that one, And then
(24:33):
went from there and worked at Strikersfor a little bit, which is a
club here with Matthew Hoppy and playerslike that. Uh and then yeah,
when went off to the Galaxy andwas there for a few years with the
Galaxy, and now I find myselfin Utah working with Rialsa Lake Southern California
kid in Salt Lake City. That'sthe dream, That's that's what we all
put together, right. Yeah,so I get I've I beat the storm.
(24:56):
I came here and back to Californiaand enjoyed the beach for a little
bit, and as I go backtoday, it'll be snowing. So so
let's let's start with the big questionthat that prompted this interview, and then
we'll get into all the pieces ofit. But had a fan, Jason
g ask, I'd be interested toget your take on MLS academies across MLS.
He said, where have they been, where are they now? And
(25:18):
what would you like to see goingforward? And we've talked about that a
little bit on the show, butyou are now the expert, So let's
start with where have they been?What would you say from your time with
chief us USA to where you whatyou see in RSL and around the league.
Now, where have MLS academies beenand where are they now, I
mean it's night and day nowhere whereit's been. You know, achieve us,
(25:41):
you know, going back there.Like I said, I had done
grass roots before, I had doneregular clubs and different things like that,
and going to achieve us there wasa professional feel to it. But at
the same time we were training ata park in Bell Gardens, California here
and you know, yes, youhave a certain connection with the first team,
(26:02):
but in reality it there was aseparation, right. You just kind
of felt like a little bit betterthan normal club soccer. So we had
to be creative, find different waysto connect everybody and do different things like
that. But you know, likeI said, I think that having experience
moving from Chivas and seeing different academiesnot only in this country but across the
(26:26):
world, you could see that wewere still far behind in terms of infrastructure
and everything. So although it wasa step up for me and it was
eye opening for me, I couldstill see that it was you know,
still needed massive, massive improvement andneeded a better infrastructure, that's for sure.
So let's start with facilities, becauseyou mentioned the field. You talk
about infrastructure, not every academy aroundthe world, right, I think San
(26:48):
Lorenzo talks about they used two fieldsand a brick wall. But they've had
you know, I think the lastWorld Cup they had the most players out
of their academy in a World Cup, all of them obviously playing for a
Tina. So it's not everything,but what have you seen in the jump
in facilities and infrastructure and maybe whatare the keys that are necessary? Yeah,
(27:08):
so that's crazy. Uh, Likeyou said, a lot of European
teams they come here and they areblown away by the facilities. You know,
the amount of investment that has beenput in, you know, to
these things. And you look atAustin's, you look at Atlanta as Philly,
and obviously at Salt Lake we haveeverything, but it's it's incredible the
amount of investment that has been putinto these academies and these guys are blown
away by it. And um andthat's just the testament to the owners and
(27:33):
everything and in the front office andeverything to to put those visions into place
and for the improvement of youth development. And I just think that when I
when I when I look at theinfrastructure, when I look at the facilities,
um. You know, of coursethat's only one piece of the pie,
right, and there has to bedifferent layers to it and how it
all works, right, Um,but I think that without that, without
(27:56):
that in place, I'm just notsure you can be taken as serious.
I love San Lorenzo's example. I'ma big Argentinian fan as well, but
uh but yeah, the reality isyou need a field, right, You
need you need fields, You needyour own you need your own area because
(28:17):
that's contact hours, that's an abilityto train when you need to and work
around those types of things. Notoh this other club has it in you
know, a half an hour andhey, you guys, you got to
get off or you're waiting for themto. So to have your own facility
is key, you know, Butthen what you do with it is uh
yeah, a different story. Andobviously at RSL you mentioned you guys have
(28:41):
maybe the best in the country orin the league across the US and Canada.
Outside of those playing fields, whatare the things that are important when
you talk about weight rooms and videoand all that stuff, even for players
at a young level. Yeah,I mean that that's the key, the
contact hours that you're able to have. And so you know, at Ursel
(29:06):
having you know, the dormitories,right, So we have a living on
the campus, right, So there'sthis living situation where the players are are
are living together, they're eating together. We have a school there as well,
right, so they go to acharter school that's on site. Everything
is in the same location. Andthen from there, you know, they
go and train. The first teamtrains um you know, the Monarchs are
(29:29):
there as well, so everybody's inone's central area. And when I talk
about infrastructure, I mean that's it. That's everything. The weight room,
the video the dorms, the school, you know, the professional team right
there for these for these young players, and that is what inspires them that
it's just within reach. And again, like I said, where we were,
(29:51):
where I was at achieve Us,Yeah it was. It just didn't
it didn't have it right you wereyou were worried about could they get a
ride to training? You know,where were their parents at, where were
they eating? You know, allthe different distractions that come with being a
teenager, you know, and allthose types of things. So this helps
with contact hours. We can goon forever about contact hours and how important
that is, but essentially your facilityand infrastructure can help that you mentioned the
(30:17):
residency at RSL. I was goingto save this for later, but it
fits in here. So my understandingis at RSL's academy, even if you
live in Salt Lake, you livein the residency. Is that correct?
So every player lives on the campus. Yeah, that's correct, that's correct.
We have a we have a fewthat will commute, but yeah,
like one or two, but yeah, mostly everybody lives there. Then you
(30:41):
have clubs in other cities. Ithink c Cincinnati is one of them where
they don't really have any residency andevery player is a local player who comes
and plays. Do you think aresidency setup is the future one hundred percent
for every club or is it justwhat works for RSL but and Philly.
But maybe it's different for other people. Yeah, I think it's I think
it's uh, it's different for everybody. And I say that because in Utah
(31:07):
there's to a certain degree there's anisolation, right of clubs, of teams
and different things like that, anduh, you know, you need to
bring in players like Arizona as ahot market for us. Good players have
come out of there and we willcontinue to use that and we have oursel
Arizona which is down there, andso I think that that is huge,
(31:27):
huge to have, But I don'tthink it's for everybody. You know,
it has to be the right situation. I think just having a place for
the kids to stay is again it'sjust one one piece and if it fits
your vision for your club, great. For ourselves, it's perfect for us,
and yeah, maybe not necessarily forSan Jose earthquakes or you know,
(31:48):
or Portland or something like that.I know there's homestays, which is another
thing I see a lot, andyou want to talk about growth, look
at those initiatives. Right, Seattledid a really good initiative where they started
having homestays and guys like Danny Levahad opportunities to go from Vegas to there,
you know, and so you cansee that John Lucabuco same right,
(32:09):
homestay and how that has benefited ouryouth development here. So it doesn't necessarily
have to be the residency program.But again, how you how you're looking
at your contact hours and bringing thesetop players and making them better, so
and hearing what you're saying, andI think sort of how I see it
(32:30):
as well is maybe if you're ina city like a Dallas, LA,
and New York where there are playersthat are all right there that can also
get challenging games against each other withouthaving to live somewhere. Maybe those are
the places where residency isn't as necessary. Is that how you see it?
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, And and and you know there's there's
of course, you know, withtechnology and everything growing now in the world,
(32:54):
and especially with you know, kidsdoing these online schools and having the
courses and they're so used to itnow, you know, because that's school
is a big piece of it.Right, They still need an education.
These are still young players, butthey can supplement that with first team trainings,
(33:15):
second team trainings, different things likethat because they're online school right.
So there's there's some scenarios where academieswill put their top players in online programs
and monitor them and different things likethat. So again that way they're able
to, you know, again usemore contact hours for their development plans individually
(33:35):
for them or just allowing them toget more training or more video or different
things like that. So in mymind, the next step of where academies
have been where are they now iscoaching. And you've talked about facilities and
contact hours and all this. Thenyou have the coaches, who you know,
are the ones who kind of shapethe players. What have you seen
in the changes of maybe quality ofcoaches or coaching education and coaching ideas in
(34:00):
MLS from when you started to whereit stands now. Well, I think
the big thing that that we seea lot now is ex players, right
X players working and getting their badgesand going through those things, and and
uh, you know, been ableto I've been able to work with with
some former ex players that have beenworking on their licenses, and of course
(34:22):
they're sitting here thinking, wow,this is actually really hard, or hey
I never thought about that. Ijust played, you know. Um.
So the fact that education is there, um, you know, I know
there's a French course right that alot of coaches have taken, Academy directors
courses. Of course, they've they'verevamped US soccers revamped A licenses and all
(34:44):
their licenses really but so there's somuch opportunity for knowledge out there, um,
you know, and we're seeing thatpeople are interested in getting into the
game and coaching. Uh, coacheshave to be knowledgeable. I like the
fact that that you know, youkind of put them into these pieces infrastructure
and you know, and all thistype of stuff. But then the coaches,
(35:06):
right, they're the heartbeat to me. And maybe I'm biased because I'm
a coach, right, but they'rethe heartbeat of everything. Right. You
can have everything, but if youdon't have a good teacher in front of
you, you don't have a goodinstructor in front of you that understands how
to teach, well, then everythingcould be lost. Right. But yeah,
it's good coaching, education X players, different things like that I think
(35:27):
has really really helped. Have therebeen any specific drastic changes of the way
to coach players, game models,things that are focused on because I can
just say from me, you watcha young player in this country ten years
ago to now, Technically they're moreproficient now, So it feels like something
has changed, or maybe that's justthe way I'm choosing to see it.
(35:50):
I'm curious what you think, No, I think I think you're spot on.
You know, there's there's a lotof coaches that are serious thinkers about
the game. They want to begood at their craft, they're improving on
it. And this is how Isee coaching. Coaching is being able to
convey your thoughts of the game tothe players in a way that they can
understand. And to me, that'sthe big, big key. I think
within game models, within ways ofteaching, there's hundreds of ways to do
(36:15):
different things right. And we cantake from Spain, we can take from
Germany because that's what we do right. We can take from England, and
we can take all these these differentthings and we can say, oh,
we want to play like them orthe Barcelona where you know, we can
do all that. But the realityis, whichever one it is, the
coaches have to be able to conveythose ideas and thoughts to their players and
(36:37):
they have to have feel for that. I use a word I'm going to
say experience. My friends love whenI talk about experience. Experience plays a
role. And what I mean bythat is when you're a young coach and
you're starting out, you think it'soh, I drew it up on the
paper, it's going to be easy, no problem. Players will be able
to do this, They'll be ableto do that. That's how I see
it. But remember these are youngplayers. These are young players that are
(37:00):
uh, you know, coming intoa different environment where it's more and more
competitive, and there you maybe youused to being the best player on the
team. They haven't really been coached. Like all of a sudden, these
things hit you as a coach,and sometimes you freeze up as a young
you know, as a young coach, I remember, you know, I
would use high school trainings as experiments. That sounds funny, but I'd use
(37:21):
high school training as experiments to tobetter myself. I would use different exercises.
Did I like it? Did I'dnot like it? Did the players
like it? How did I delivermy message? And so I think that
that, you know, although wehave coaching education, although we have all
these licenses and things like that,it's experience that these these new coaches have
to get in front of the playersand they have to work with them,
(37:43):
and they don't necessarily have to behigh level players. That has nothing to
do with with with coaching whatsoever.It's being in front of a group of
players and being able to, youknow, convey those thoughts to them.
So the other part of conveying athought is sometimes a player physical being able
to understand you in terms of language. And one of the big conversations across
(38:04):
North American soccer has always been thereare so many communities that aren't being tapped
into, that aren't being given theopportunities. It feels, I think from
the outside for a lot of peoplethat what you and some of your co
workers that achieve us and then they'relike Galaxy was sort of the first time
we saw, especially that Southern CaliforniaMexican and Latin background start to get opportunities
(38:27):
in MLS. What do you seein terms of scouting recruitment into all communities
rather than maybe just the cliche communitiesthat were being represented in the eighties and
nineties and early two thousands in thepro soccer scene. Let me first off
by saying that having this pay toplay and you know, having these academies
(38:47):
again invest so much money and opportunitiesfor everybody without having a cost to it,
because like look at for re alsoLake, we fly everywhere to go
play teams. There's a massive costto that that most people wouldn't be able
to afford. Most players wouldn't beable to afford or go to a charter
school. So, you know,first and foremost that again is the growth
(39:12):
of MLS academies, right being ableto say, hey, we want you
to play for us. We're investingin you. Everything is you know,
virtually free of charge, right,So that's number one. But I guess
to the second point of the questionis whether or not I've seen the Latin
culture get more opportunities. Yes,I have, I've seen it. We
(39:32):
know that they're good players. Ithink we just need to get away from
just athletes and that's it. Ithink there's just there's I guess it's how
you define athletes and athleticism. Wecan get into that another day. But
but just the fact that I haveseen that, I think there's you know,
you guys, you have guys likeGoogle Perez as well. You know
who's Sho's now with El Salvador anddifferent things like that. Massive scouting,
(39:55):
massive scouting everywhere because there's talented playersin this country. But again, we
were so big. But it's peopleknowing the markets and that's key. Knowing
the markets, knowing that there's hotbedshere and just going out and finding them,
you know. And you see nowa lot of clubs again where we've
been and where we're going. Yousee that there's head of recruitment or head
(40:16):
of head of scouting for academies.I'm not talking about first teams. We're
talking about academies and they're out thereand they're looking and they're seeing, you
know, with with affiliate clubs thatthey have that that clubs have or not,
and doing partnerships with of course withall levels of soccer here in this
country. So it can be fromclubs, it can be from ODP,
(40:37):
it can be from ID two,all these things and and and the scouts
are out there, so again theinvestment is being put in to find these
and that's just giving more opportunity forplayers to be seen. And really that's
all they need. They just needopportunities to be seen, you know,
um and the serious player that isdedicated to it, you'll know right away,
(40:58):
you know when when you're when you'reout there watching. Andrew, thanks
for taking the time to join us. Good luck in your snow venture coming
forward, and we'll see you nexttime. I appreciate thank you so much
for having me on amazing stuff withAndrew. I could have gone for three
hours. We didn't talk about collegesoccer and homegrown territory rights and coaching development
(41:19):
and coaching licensing and youth national teamsand whether they matter anymore, and there's
just so many places we could go, and I hope that we get to
explore a lot of it here onAFP. That's what we're here for.
That's why I love this show.So if you have more great questions about
stuff like this or anything in thesoccer world, like Jason G, you
can go to our discord. Ifyou are a Patreon subscriber, and I
(41:42):
urge you to be a Patreon subscriber, jump on the discord, go to
our hashtag ask AFP section and sendingquestions because I'm always looking to be inspired
for new interviews and who should wetalk to and what should we talk about?
So I really appreciate it when allof you tell us what you're passionate
about and we can sort of learnabout it together. With that, that's
the end of our show. Soas I said, we'll be back with
(42:02):
normal programming coming up next week.And thanks so much for listening everyone,
and have a great one happy NewYear.
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