Replay: That Time Pa-Modou Kah Stopped By

On this episode of AFP, David is joined by Pacific FC manager Pa-Modou Kah, fresh off a CPL championship and coach of the year award. The two discuss winning it all, his future in coaching, his experience playing all around the world and MLS.

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Episode Transcript

(00:23):
Hi, everybody, Welcome to afootball pod. Of course, I'm David
Guss. We are excited. Werecord a couple interviews to keep you warm
during these cold winter months when weare taking a little bit of a break.
And I think this interview has meas excited as any we've ever done,
because it's someone who I consider ahero and someone I look up to
and love supporting and obviously now achampion as well. The head coach and

(00:47):
director of soccer operations for Pacific FCPamouka. What's up man? Oh,
thank you, thank you for havingme. I'm great. You're on,
so that means I'm good. Socceron in the background, I'm chilling.
It's the holiday season. Everything's sloweddown. Are you a fan of this
time of year? Or as inNorwegian, is this too cold and dark
for you? Nah? It's I'mon the island, so there's there's nothing

(01:10):
but the rain and once in awhile sony clouds, so no snow,
no nothing. So yeah, andwith the pandemic there's no place we can
go, so we're at home.Maybe take a swim in the sea in
the ocean's not agreeze out here?Oh man, you're lucky. It's health
is good. It's good for thebody and soul. I did I did

(01:33):
a dunk in the Arctic sea oncewhen I was in Helsinki doing the saunas
and stuff. You guys can handleway more cold than I can. Yeah,
that's the fact. We love it. We enjoy it. We love
it and we enjoy it. Solet's start with Pacific FC obviously, and
what's gone on the last few weeks, and then we'll get into your life
and career, and I'll try andjam as much as I can in because

(01:53):
I could talk to you for fivehours. M Obviously, sports are about
a lot of things, right,groups, teamwork, relationships, all these
things, but at their core,they are about winning. You're a champion
now since winning the championship, what'schanged in your life? What's changed for
you? For me personally, Idon't think nothing has changed. I think

(02:16):
what may have changes it's the perceptionand the view of somebody like me who
is a minority win a championship tomaybe inspire all the people like myself to
see it and chase after their dream. I think that's that's the only thing
that's changed. But other than that, for me, nothing has changed.

(02:38):
Everything remained the same. I gettoo able to spend time with my family
now, which I'm happy with.During the court of a season, you
don't get to do much because you'realways on the movie, you're always traveling,
you're always going. So at theend of the day, my wife
is the real MVP because she's holdthe foot down and allowed me to chase
my dream. So I couldn't bemore grateful to that. She's also okay

(03:00):
with you dancing next to moving cars. Oh, she was the one driving.
I could hear one of your kidsin the background. Yeah, actually
my youngest one was in the car, and then we regarded it a couple
of days pry and I'm like,I was saving it for Friday because of
the song. But she was theone was recording and driving the car.
You mentioned in terms of winning whatit means for other people, How often

(03:23):
when you're going through your day today of coaching, of putting this roster
together, of playing games, areyou thinking about yourself as a role model
and what you represent for other people. The best thing I can be is
be myself, right because in thegame of football, we know in soccer
or football everything there's always this perstection, there's always this narrative that we cannot

(03:46):
be a certain way. And forme, no, You're supposed to be
who you are because who you aredefines you. So for me, being
authentic, I think is the bestthing that you can be, whether good
or bad, because there are alwayspeople that are gonna like you, and
there's always going to be people thatdoesn't like you. That's that's part of
life. But for me, Ilike being me and that's the biggest thing.

(04:09):
Also, tell the players and peoplethat are surrounding me, be you
because that's who you are, that'show you created. You don't need to
be somebody else because the expectation ofpeople is for you to be a certain
way. You're supposed to be whoyou are. That's me on this earth.
One of the things we talk abouta lot with representation is it's hard
to see yourself in a role,see yourself being successful if you've never seen

(04:30):
anyone do it before. For you, yeah, you talk about being yourself
and now being a coach. Yeah, did you have role models like you
that you are embodying or do youfeel like you're sort of blazing your own
trail of your style for me,I'm I don't have a football hero,
never had one. The only onethat I see as an idol and somebody

(04:54):
that I see do good things isfor me was Muhammed Ali. That is,
that is the only one for whathe stood for and how we act
upon it. And for me thatwas that was, that was the only
one. And obviously you read books, obviously you see things happening around you,

(05:15):
right, you're witnessing it. Andagain for me to see friends that
con visit and they were we werechatting there, he was talking to my
wife. You say, man forhim to open the doors for immigrant people
back in Norway and being the firstone to do with those things after a
while sticks because then then you thenyou're like, oh, yeah, that's

(05:35):
true. But me thinking of it, No, But am I aware of
my surroundings and things happening in mysurroundings? One, Am I a role
model? I would say no?Why? And the reason why I say
no one is not to get misunderstoodis people should be their own role model.

(05:55):
Yes, you can look into somebodyand say, you know what,
I like what he's doing. I'lltake that. But if everybody is their
own role model for the right reasonwe're live in a better world, right,
and the things some of the thingsthat we see and happening around the
world that can be dealt with ina mannerism of us understanding of what is
it to be a human? Andbeing human is about having compassionship and love.

(06:18):
You brought up representing Norway. Iwant to ask you about this later,
but yeah, you know you're leadingthe convo, and so I'm going
to follow you like you're under tentoday instead of my center back. Oh
wow, what Anna? You couldbe a six? We could you could
be a ball playing six that's dictatingour play. Yeah, I like it
to six. I like the sixall right. So being who you are,

(06:40):
your background, moving from Gambia,growing up black Muslim in Norway.
Yeah, when you put on thatjersey, did you feel like it represented
you? Did you feel like thatpride that you think the other players felt
or was it different for you?I felt pride because that's just who I
am. Norway gave me the opportunityunity. I was born and raising Gambier

(07:01):
till I was eight, but noWay gave me the opportunity to become the
football player. So I also haveto represent with heart and with dignity,
and I still do. I'm aGambian Norwegian and I'm very proud of it.
What is it that maybe you wouldexpress to other Norwegians about your experience
growing up like that? I mean, obviously nowhere as as when I came

(07:24):
to Norway, it was it wasobviously different. It's not like it was
foreigners everywhere, but you know,it was a very accepting nation culture wise.
You know, conservative people. Buttwo sports, which for me is
the most about two sports. Youknow, you get to leave and enjoy

(07:46):
and people are equal. Right,doesn't matter your agenda, doesn't matter who
you are, right because sports doesn'tsee none of that. Right, Sports
it's about bringing people and having theirunity. So through the sports you get
to see society a different way.So for me, it's it's it's I'm
I'm grateful. I'm truly grateful forno Way opening doors for me, allowing

(08:11):
me to live my life as aprofessional as well as as a soccer coach
now. So I have everything toothankful. So let me spring us back
to CPL a little moment. We'llprobably get back into this, Yeah,
because your journey has been a uniqueone to say the least since the championship.

(08:33):
So you say, nothing's changed foryou in terms of the celebrations,
the moments, the shout outs,the different awards. What's been one of
the cooler experiences that you've had sincewinning the title? The greatest joy was
just to see the boys, youknow how much it meant to them and
the journey that we embarked through thesepast two years. Right, So I

(08:54):
took over when in twenty twenty nineteenthey had a rough sea, rough start
of a franchise, and then youtake over twenty twenty, you get hit
by pandemic, you only play tengames, right, and then you come
to a new season where you gointo a bubble for a month, and

(09:15):
then you get back to your homemarkets and you get to play, and
then you get to see the fans, You see the joy that you bring
to their face, and then youcrown it being a champion. It's fantastic
feeling and one that one that beforeever going to be forever, first on
the island, bringing back a championshipwith a group of guys that for the

(09:35):
past three years they were never givenan opportunity elsewhere, and now the champion
that is for me, the greatestfeeling. That's why the time that I
enjoyed was actually when as soon asthe whistle went. I don't know if
people see that, you see thecameras, but you see me just looking
up to the sky and just thatwas my moment. That was my moment
to enjoy. And obviously coming backhome and see my wife and seeing my

(10:00):
two kids with the trophy, Ithink that was also the greatest joint after
seeing seeing our players and the organizationhow much it meant to them and as
well for the island. Is thereany shout out that you were surprised by
or touched by specifically, or youknow you were like, oh, yeah,
that's really cool. Yeah, Imean obviously how how it meant,

(10:22):
how much it meant for our fanbase. You know, how much it
meant for the people, because that'swhat I said, like, we serve
the people, and the people arethe fans and the people that care about
the club. So to see howmuch it meant for them, for me,
it was like it was wonderful andsomething that I will ever be grateful
for, as well as the players, because I have a video where where

(10:43):
one of the players that Matthew Bullissimo. It was after the celebration we write
him back home and he was andhe was talking to me and right and
the things that he was saying washilarious but also truly appreciative. You know.
It was then then you see howmuch of so it meant to them
being a champion and truly believing inthat we could do it. You've connected

(11:05):
with this community so quickly. Youobviously played for the Vancouver Whitecaps, but
you've moved around a lot. Iwonder what's your process in terms of how
do you find your feet in anew community, in a new place.
Do you do research? Is itjust going out and talking to people?
How do you make that happen?The researcher in the families my wife than

(11:28):
my wife does. The researchers areaspeople and it's me I never do.
I'm like, I'm always up forI'm always up for adventure. So is
she. But she's more calculated meand that I'm a little bit free flowing,
and I do believe that wherever Iam going, it's my job to

(11:48):
go into the communities, to understandthe communities and talk to the communities for
them to get a better understanding ofme and that gives me also the teaching
of Okay, I understand them better. I know maybe what will drive them
things that they love to see andin their players or in their coach.
So you know, for me asalways being together with the fans and and

(12:11):
and the community, because the communityis is football these other things that you
leave and die by. It's oneof the special things about the game,
right, it's so glad personally,like I use it as a prism to
meet people. Yes, it's anentry into a community. So it makes
sense that it would work for youbeing a pretty great football I'm pretty great.

(12:31):
I don't know, I did,I did? I did good for
myselvious. Does your wife put togethera fact sheet because I've I've heard you
talk about the former World Cup playersfrom the area, Yeah, the history
of the game. Does she does? She lay that all out for you
on no cards? No, no, no, she she's more on the
family side. When it comes tothe soccer side, that is me because

(12:54):
I love the game and I lovethe history of the game. So so
for that part, it's it's thatthat that side is me. But how
we leave things to do for familyreason that my wife. That is that
that is our side of it.And when it comes to the game,
she also she's my she's my biggestcritique. Perfect you know, well,

(13:16):
we play well when we don't playwell, so and we are enjoying because
I know it's always coming from agood heart, you know, and things
if I do some things that I'mnot supposed to do either way. So
for that support, I'm always forevergrateful. You know. It's always good
to have that on your corner.And she's never satisfied whatever we do.
It is like she pushed me alot, which which I truly enjoy as

(13:39):
well. But you have moved thetime. What's your biggest piece of advice
to people who are moving to aforeign place? Wow? If they're tough
on if you move into a foreignplace, I always say, get to
know the culture and get to knowthe people, right, don't be shy,
be be out there, get tounderstand the people because you are coming

(14:01):
to people, so it's not theirjob to integrate you. It's your job
to integrate yourself. Okay, that'sa really good one. It also helps
that you speak like nineteen languages soyou can talk to everyone. No.
Yeah, but with languages. That'swhat I tell people with languages. Just
gotta be out there. That's whatI said to people said, You've got
to be out there. Languages aretough. It's never easy. Maybe I

(14:22):
was born with a gift, butI do believe that be out there,
Go speak to people and meet them, make mistakes. Don't make fun of
yourself. If you cannot make funof yourself, then then you don't learn
right. For me, there's abig thing I don't know. Yeah,
my head coach, but still doesn'tmean that I cannot enjoy being who I
am, and I think that's themost sometimes the most difficult thing for people.

(14:45):
I am very much comfortable in myown skin, so that's the only
thing that can be me. Icould ask you about all these places you've
lived, but one that sticks outto me for you is Saudi Arabia and
obviously what it means as a placeyou know in Muslim world. What was
it like when you finally got thereand you spend some time playing in KSA.

(15:07):
The domestic league is very strong.People don't realize that. I think
it's the strongest league in the MiddleEast. Their league is very strong.
But living in there obviously you youthere's a lot of stuff that for the
outside world they don't see and peopletalk talk about the year. It is.
It is a different country towards whatthe Western world, their values,

(15:31):
the piece that people do. ButI mean, I think changes are coming
around the world. Places where womencannot drive, but now they're opening to
it. More women are driving.I think that is very huge and important
for society as well, I think. But it is a it is a

(15:54):
different place. It's it's there's alot of things that you see that you
like. Okay, well, forexample, me being a Muslim being able
to go to Puilgram to the heartand you see all millions of people.
It was it was an eye openerfor myself and my wife. You know,
these things you only see but getto witness. It was fantastic and

(16:15):
it is. It is a massive, massive country. It is a massive,
massive country. The size of thecountry is massive. So for ouray
games, it's not It's not likein Kata where within twenty minutes I can
I can be at the stadium.Here you talk about flying right, flying
for hours. So it is itis a massive country. But the country
that taught me a lot as well, you know things, things you see,

(16:37):
things you take for granted, butit's not for other people. So
you learned and I learned a lotin that country, but I truly enjoyed
it, not so much for mywife because I was looked at as a
chauffeur. So that's the crazy part, right or you talk about differences,
right me being in Saudi, peoplethought people like myself they were not supposed

(16:59):
to be, maybe in a certainroles, because yeah, we were looked
differently. So when I was withmy wife, they viewed me a sasha
fur or somebody that is help athome. So when we went to the
to the groceries and me I'm standingnext to her, and then the question
is about why isn't he packing thebag? So why he's not doing that?

(17:22):
And then you pay and then he'slike huh okay, he's what is
he? And then you start speakingtheir language, it's like huh okay.
So again the perception and the narrativeof what people have in certain ways.
But it was a great learning point. But my wife couldn't drive, so
that was a little bit sad forher, and she couldn't get out if
I was not out, so thatpart also we learned, so you learn

(17:45):
a little bit about when you havecertain freedom or certain things that you take
for granted in all the places it'snot. Yeah, it's definitely a unique
experience. Yeah, I don't knowthat there's anything else in the world like
it, which is why it stoodout to me. I'm curious what was
going through your mind? What wasthat experience? Like I mean, And
that's why that's why me I'm gratefulbecause true football, I get to go

(18:07):
to places because normally you go toHi when you when you have saved the
money or you have wealth, whereyou can do it because it's part of
the five Saka that you have todo. So for me to be able
to do the true football with mywife and see it and experience it is
something unique and something like I saidthat that will forever be grateful, you

(18:29):
know. So those are other thingsthat when you go to places. It
was there for us and our ourteam was in Macca, so that makes
it even more special. So that'swhy I'm grateful for these football experiences.
I want to ask you one moreabout this and then we'll get back to
you've talked about, you know,representation and what you stand for as a

(18:52):
blackhead coach in a unique situation orunfortunately, as you know, part of
that minority um. But we don'thear toime about being a Muslim player or
coach. And you're very open aboutyour faith and what it means to you
and how it affects you. Whatdo you say to to young Muslim boys,
girls, change that or whatever itis who want to get into football

(19:15):
and soccer, and maybe how youmanage your faith and your religion and that
schedule and that experience with trying toget to the top. For me,
I respect all religions because what Ialways say is like did we all get
the message? Because there were messages? We always see the message, and
we always see the message. Thenwe know that religion is and faith is.

(19:37):
No, it's about respect, it'sabout it's about love. It's about
being compassionate. It's not about yourcolor, it's not about anything, but
that's what it's about. Muslim isthe youngest faith, but it's about love.
It gives you choices. What choicesare you being life? Choices?
With choices? Do you want tomake good or bad? You're okay living

(19:57):
with that? That's Muslimits And forme. That's why I say religion and
transition is two different stuff. That'ssomething that people should not bring in,
right, the Muslim faith, theJewish faith, the Hindu everything is about
love and compassionship. Right, Sofor me being a Muslim, I should

(20:18):
not act differently because that was theperception of being a Muslimits. Right.
We have we have good Muslims,we have bad Muslims. We have good
Christians, we have bad Christians.For me is about who do you want
to be? Right, be theperson that you want to be. Because
you live here on this earth.When you're gone, you're gone, what

(20:41):
do you want to leave behind you? And for me, I believe in
living in legacy behind for people tosee that at least he was a good
person. He tried to do goodthings. That's the only thing. For
me. I'm not here to judgenobody. I'm not here to say anything,
but I do believe that and mebeing a Muslim should not stop me.

(21:03):
That's that's my faith and faith I'mvery proud of. So whatever,
I'm proud of them, whatever,I'll never hide it because it shows me
then I'm asking to hide my identity. Right. So, so being a
Muslim doesn't need to freak people out. And that's the and that's the cool
part. If I don't talk aboutit or be about it, people that
know I don't think they ask meoh, And now that acts uprise because

(21:25):
maybe the perception of what is itto be a Muslim and what is associated
with but that shouldn't be that ifit makes sense, So for me,
I'll not hide who I am.Yeah, absolutely no. There there are
obviously those negative connotations, but itis I know, growing up Jewish and
religious in my community, and Ithink it's even less. But um,

(21:48):
you know, there are these momentswhere people just assume things. People order
a meal exactly, they don't askwhat you or people are like, oh,
I can give you off for theholidays, and it's like, well
I don't need December, I needoff in September. And so it's those
things which I think people don't thinkabout. And then I think in Islam
it's even more different at times thanwhat Western society has become. And so

(22:11):
I'm always curious coming up as aplayer, like how did you deal with
Ramedan? Talking to you know,your coaching staffs and your medical trainers as
you became an adult player. Wehad a plan because they're understood. Because
when you explain to people and theyunderstand it, then it becomes easy.
So they understood it's part of myfaith, is something I do. And

(22:32):
because you think about it for elevenmonths, you get to eat, do
whatever you want, like in theterms of food and all of this stuff.
Right, So God is asking you, could you give me a month
where you understand the choices of nothaving food, choice of having water,
and that becomes because also that wasAbraham did, right, Abraham had to

(22:56):
sacrifice for his to see whether God, whether he had faith in God,
you know, ask him to sacrificeas a son. So those are the
things that God is asking you.And who am I not to be able
to give a month? And ifwe're talking about hours, we're talking about
twenty four hours. We're talking abouthours where you just understand what is it

(23:18):
not to have food and drink?Like homeless people, You go this without
eating, So how does that feellike? And then you appreciate what is
it that you have and all yourclubs that you've been with have worked with
you on that. Oh yeah theyknow, yeah, they work the nutrition.
They give me stuff but also Icooked. My wife she helps me,

(23:42):
you know, she she organized everythingfor me. And it's the only
month where let's say, I don'tneed to do anything at home, like
come home after practice or working straight, sleep or do any something else.
But deal I try to do somethingin the family because even though it's Amanda

(24:03):
assuldn't stopped me from doing stuff right. And after years and years of practice,
it just become easy. You justbecome natural. It's just like intimate
fasting. That's another way to lookat it. It's just intimate fasting.
It's always fascinating me and we've talkedabout it a little bit before. But
it's such a unique thing in theworld. And then you add into sports

(24:26):
and the way sports science happens nowand they're recording every single crumb you put
in your mouth over the course ofthe year, and then yeah, you
have this unique setup. So youtalked a little bit about legacy before and
one of the things you've you've builtyour team on and you've stated that matters
to you is giving young players opportunitiesand looking at this specific FC roster that

(24:49):
has been the case. It's aconversation we have fairly often and we don't.
No one's perfected it yet. Butwith young players, where does the
balance come between winning and deserved opportunityand pushing players? How have you maybe
over these two years and in thischampionship run, what have you seen or

(25:10):
learned or where you land in termsof when is a player ready? How
do you get a young player opportunitywhile also still sticking to your promise,
which was to your ownership group,I'm going to win a championship. Yeah,
that is. That is That isbased upon again violence of who you
are and the belief that you installedin your players and the value that you

(25:32):
yourself believe in that you can achievebecause I always say this, what you
believe of yourself is what you become. And you're supposed to go through challenges,
we're supposed to face adversity if weif if we all have the right
and so we all we've all beenpsyching now to install. But the balance

(25:53):
is finding with young players is nowadaysyoung kind of teach you on. So
it's up to the coach if you'regoing young to fully balance it. Believe
it trusted and working and given theopportunity because it is it is. It
is not easy into the world whereeverybody want to win. But I always
say it's easy in MLS. Ina sense of MLS in North America.

(26:15):
Why there's no relegation. You're playingno relegation, So that gives you the
time to if you have a processand you trust it, to walk on
it. So that's no excuse.It's the external when the externals start making
talks and everything that people actually inthe internal start Okay, now we've got

(26:36):
to do something. But if youtruly believe that you want to achieve something,
you gotta believe in it. Andalso you've got to allow time for
people to do that. When Icame to the ownership group, it was
right we developed players. Why shouldn'twe because everybody was a young player before,
even including myself. I got mychance at sixteen. Was I ready
to play at sixteen? No,definitely not. Didn't have to go through

(27:00):
some challenges, some adversities one hundredpercent. Did it shape me one hundred
percent? So why shouldn't I notgive it to the young player knowing that
they're gonna experience some of the thingscourtship that I've experienced, and for me,
that is that is where the differencesformason about winning. I don't care
about winning because those winning actually careabout us. But you do win,

(27:25):
so it works out free here.Yeah, yeah, it did work out.
But for me, the whole packageis and that's what I said,
after you win and you see howthese kids are and now they finally understand.
Now they get it. Okay,this is what he's been preaching about.
This is what winnings feel like.This is what he's achieving something together.

(27:45):
And and for me, that's whyI said, the growth is the
most important thing, not even winning, the growth of how you can change
people's life for the rest of theircareer. Our boys being champions is something
that will live for their life.It's something that will open those for them,
for other clubs, you know,those other opportunities. Those are the

(28:07):
things that for me that that's theway that I see it, you know,
that is the way I see it. So when it comes down to
that and giving these young kids theopportunity, I always will do it because
I'm not afraid of because that's whatyou do. I'm in a position to
help young kids achieve their dream thenwho am I not to give them the

(28:30):
opportunity and fight for it, fightfor it so that they understand what they
gotta do. So for me,I will always do it. I always
believe in it, and I willnever change my mindset about it. Since
you've been in North America since Ithink twenty thirteen, because when he came
over, obviously Portland and Vancouver andnow in the CPL, it feels like

(28:53):
we're seeing young players get more opportunity, right, Obviously from the national teams
down in Canada and the US that'sthat's been the big team. Is it
that players are getting more opportunity orhave you seen a change in the development
process and where players are at ata younger age. Football is always evolution,
right, is always changing. Andwhen I came to MLS, it

(29:15):
was a league of experience, right, which is one of the most valid
thing you can have, but itwas all the players and you and you
fast forward eight years later, you'reseeing more in young players coming in,
right. You see clubs like Dallasbringing young players. You see clubs like
a Philadelphia, And also you areseeing people have more and more respect for

(29:41):
what MLS is doing because we areseeing more and more North American players go
into Europe and having success and whenyou have those components in it, people
will take notice. And you havepeople like Jonathan David from Canada Polish not
the mention that Fronsa Davis. Soyou have with those three transfers, you

(30:03):
got to mention your little brother.You can't leave them out. No,
I will never leave my little brout. But you take Funzi who went for
twenty twenty million. Imagine Funcy stayedanother year and still continuous development. So
today Funcy would have been worth whatto leave the MLS right, but imagine
Fundsy now being buy from another club. You know it's gonna cause. So
Polishes went for seventy five, JonathanDavid went for thirty forty million, Funcy

(30:26):
for twenty so in three years NorthAmerica. Not to mention all others,
but they've made transfer of over onehundred and twenty million on three plays.
Two of them who actually didn't evenplay in North America. Yeah, two
of them didn't actually get no professionaldebut in North America. That's for me,

(30:47):
it's crazy. That just shows youthe landscape of North America and where
soccer can bring both nations Canada andthe US and seeing them in this conquer
cover region and how well doing itin this qualification is fantastic, right and
people will take more and more interest. That means that the MLS for me,
when you look at the league withinthe next World Cup, I think

(31:14):
MLS will be if you take awayEngland obviously, Italy, Spain, Germany,
France, I think MLS will bethe sixth most rank league in the
world. For me, that's justmy vision, my opinion because the way
I'm seeing how the game is continuingto developmental path and where the success is

(31:37):
coming from because you look now yougot American players in the top teams.
You got to make any Chelsea Stephanin Man City. Are you talking about
three of the best clubs in wholeEurope? And Americans are there and you
get Fantasy who's in buying and JonathanDavid in lil winning the league doing well,

(32:00):
and there's multiples Brian Reynolds in Romaright, So there's plenty of North
American players that are going to Europebecause as well as it's not the money,
it's not everywhere, and they understoodthat let's be best in our country
first to make a move and that'swhat MLS is providing. You see Almiroun
getting bought for twenty million as wellgoing there. So it is a league

(32:22):
that is in changing. So theevolution is there, right, the landscape
change, coach is changing and ifyou see the past now obviously we have
Ezra and we have Robin Fraser righton that side also is changing, like
we see new people in new leadershiproles gonzaloa which is important because also players

(32:45):
to look into this. Okay,who's the coach? There? Is he
like me? Does he think likeme? Does he act like me?
Will he understand me? And youneed that because there's a certain aspect of
life that if you're not that person, you cannot understand. And it's okay
saying that it has to be thatway, but also evolution has to happen,

(33:05):
right, and I'm thinking evolution iscontinuous, is to happen. That's
why for me when you ask mefirst, I'm like the title for me
when I wanted my mind went tothat. Will this inspire other people to
believe that they can achieve this?So for you, we have are you

(33:30):
connected with MLS head coaching jobs?And obviously you play in the league.
And from this conversation and a millionother we've had. I know you follow
the league very closely. Yeah,we know you're connected with DC United.
The rumors have come out about FCDallas as well. Yeah. Is that
one hundred percent your future? Orare you looking at Europe? Are you
looking back at the middle of Areyou looking at other places where you've played

(33:52):
or are connected to around the world. Yes, obviously wherever you've been,
you or you wou you would loveto go back as a coach, maybe
to help the game. Me mynext step is MLS, but just may
being honest about it, I foreseenmy future in MLS. Europe. Europe
is more cut truth. MLS isgetting more and more cut truth. But

(34:14):
Europe is absolutely you see it.It's it's it's it's it's clear and night
and day. Right, it's clearand night and day. You can and
the best possible way I can sayit is you look at Patrick Vera right.
Don't get me wrong. I loveAtteta. I love everything he's doing
with Arsenal, the way he gotthem playing. Patrick Vera, who had

(34:37):
who started his career in North America, went back to France, did well
with France. Arsenal legend he's workingfor Crystal Palace Atteta, who played three
four years for Arsenal, became PEPassistant. Good he get the job,
So, well, how do youbasically, people say experience which experience as

(35:00):
a head coach? He had thathe had an experience of that assistant on
the PEP. Patrick was a headcoach for two teams, So how do
you base to the problem? Andit's very simple for me because we may
not look like the ones to bein those leadership positions. People may not
be ready for us to be inthose leadership positions. But he proven.

(35:22):
Patrick proven that he can take ateam and lead Robin Fraser the same.
The season that Colorado is having isunbelievable, but it was actually talking about
it, I know that he gotover a little bit overshadow of Bruce.
What Bruce did with New England wasat was a magnificent turnaround. Bruce is
a proven winner. What he didwith New England is a magnificent turnaround from

(35:44):
an organization that we all know didn'tlike to spend all of this, but
look now, Bruce stoning all around. But to see Colorado was for me
fantastic. It was just fantastic towatch somebody that like Robin Fraser turned this
organization into what there now and ittook a last minute goal from my timbers,

(36:06):
you know, to to knock himout. But if they had won
that game, I do believe theywould have won that championship. Yeah,
not Cambia dr Congo from Laris Malvilla, but know that African love at the
center back spot. So in listeningto what you're saying, and in fairness,
I had not thought of it inthis exact way of you know,
Nico Esteva has great experience in thefootballing world, but has only been a

(36:30):
head coach for three months. Hegets Stepsi Dallas shop. Obviously Pat Noonan
connected with Chris Albright, but hasnever been a head coach. He gets
steps since the night job. Doyou feel like that is the the response
you're getting from these opportunities is youneed more experience? No no, no,
no, no no no. Peoplewill always speak experience, But for

(36:52):
me is what is experience? Whatwe've won with the experience, no experience?
What you gain What people do islike you say, are you willing
to take a risk on somebody thatit's not you. Pat Noonan as a
relationship with Albran, so it's easy. You go for what you know,

(37:13):
which for me I'm okay with.I would never see it and say,
ah, there's no And for meis I always believe in do your work,
and whatever you do your work,whatever it's meant for you, it
is for you. My destiny isalready said, I'm figuring out what my
destiny is. All these other coachestheir destiny is that's what's coming to them,
and for that, I'm always goingto be happy. Me. I'm
always happy for people making it.I'm happy for Pat because Pat is an

(37:37):
explayer who's done well and I thinkhe's getting it shot something he always wanted
and it's rightfully, so go getit right. Go make a difference with
actually Cincinnati because it's a it's afranchise that truly deserved after three years of
hardship. You know, hopefully ChrisAlbright and and Pat can bring success to
the right. So for me,I'm never envious of all the people's reaching

(38:00):
their goals because if their goals isto be meant, their goals is meant
for them. My pathway, That'swhat I always say. In my path
is different, and I'm happy.All I'm saying is for people to get
people to understand more how it works. And that's just the reality of it.
Right. Let's say if I didn'tplay with Rob or no Rob,

(38:22):
would i've been given the job.You understand what I mean. It's that
right, that's it. Do Ibelieve that I can do a job hopefully,
so hopefully the players and the ownershipsees that. Right. But for
the next steps, it's also goodfor me to win because everybody wants in
the topo is about results and winning. I care about anything. Can you

(38:45):
bring us results? Can you bethe leader that they're looking for? Right?
So for me being associated with thejob, it's great, it's fantastic.
So that gives me hope to keepworking, right, keep working.
But also if people want somebody tobe in the leadership that it doesn't look

(39:05):
like them or field like them,let's do it for the right reason.
You do it because you believe hecan make a change on and off the
field. Obviously, asking this question, I'm clearly curious. That's a question
for POB but I'm going for itanyway. We've all interviewed for jobs.
We've never interviewed to be a manager. Do you show up with reference letters?
Do you bring clips of your games? Do you like What is the

(39:27):
actual interview process for a job likethis for certain people is different what they
want to see obviously people that youwork with, the references always good to
have, it's it, But alsowho you know in the game, you
like, who you talk to andwhat you are about, because, like
I say, if you're going tobe the leaders, it's okay. What
kind of leadership qualities do you bring? Obviously of philosophy, how do you

(39:52):
play? But I will never bringI never I've never saw far Up brought
a video of things like this.I've never been asked to. And you'd
assume they've watched your games and sothey should have an idea of what your
style is. No, absolutely,I mean you take a brand Smetzer,
who still I talked to, whoI respected, Jim Certain who also I

(40:16):
talked to, Peter Ans. Youknow, Bob Bradley, who I remember
when I was starting as a coach, who invited me into his scouting room
in like in Swansea, and Istill believe if Bob was given time in
Swansea he would have changed that club. I'm still annoyed that he was viewed

(40:37):
a certain way. No, I'mstill annoyed because it is the press in
England is like the way they didit for me was very annoying because I
was looking at him like you.And that's the one part in Europe,
like you see that when people wantto hold you down, they will hold
you down and they will make funof you. And it's the narrative that
they created. The narrative that theycreated about Bob was very poor because his

(41:00):
assistant was actually black. And thenhe was droving me back to the hotel
and we were talking about how Iknew Bob and all of this stuff,
and you see that he truly hadpassionate football, but he was not helped.
Bob was not helped in like inSwansea that some of the stuff didn't
didn't didn't even one in there.And when you don't know when you have
that, it's it's it's sad.But seen his resume as a coach,

(41:22):
why shouldn't Bob succeed? That's whathe's a young because so called Yanks the
football is not it's not English.When he's not owned by the English,
it's not owned by nobody. Sopeople like Bob, I thought that didn't
give him the deserved justice that hedeserved to make a difference because it would

(41:44):
have opened those for Americans, andit did with Jesse Marsh unfortunately now getting
fired, I think he got stuckin the same thing. His timeline looks
very similar to what Bob's is.And obviously you talk about the pressure and
the cutthroat, but it does feellike there's a little bit of a different
view for people who come from maybethis region of the world that doesn't have

(42:04):
the history. I'm sending coaches tothese different clubs one hundred percent, But
I think football is about evolution.Football is about change, you know.
It's it's it's like people have thisnarrative that football is only in Europe.
Okay, all right, the best, all the best players goes in Europe.
One percent. You have the EPL, you have all of this,
which is fantastic. But for me, it's about the growth of a person.

(42:29):
Am I growing? Where am I? Am? I? Am?
I? Am I challenging myself toget better? Everything? Am I challenging
people around me? Obviously you wantto go coach in Europe and all of
this stuff, But if my careerand my destinies and analys that's what I'm
going for. Will that make mehappy? One? Because for me,

(42:50):
it's about making change. That's allit is. For me. It's not
the glory. So you talk aboutchallenging yourself and we get this question on
our show a lot. So I'mgonna ask you and you can ignore it,
you can work around it, oryou can answer it. The question
is always what's next for Alfonso Davies? And obviously you've known him since he

(43:14):
was a young player, and he'sthe best left back in the world.
Now is it playing in an attackingrole? I don't know if the last
banks he's one of the best.He's one of the best. Ooh okay,
I think FIFA and some of theorganizations have put him on the world.
You don't want you don't want himto get a big head. You

(43:35):
are on the best eleven? Okay, congratulation. What do you want me
to say? He knows, heknows what I think of him, and
he knows that I'm very critical ofhim. So what's next for him?
What's next? Is it playing ina more attacking role, is it playing
at a different club, Is itleading a team and being a captain?
I think yes, you can youcan put those things down? I think

(43:57):
those are the next step frame inhis development. Don't forget that he's only
twenty one years old. You're sturntwenty one years old, years ago,
a month ago. And that's theone thing that people forget about Funzi.
Funzy is twenty one years old.Funzi is maturing to a person. Funzy
is not that old. And Fundsleft when he was eighteen, so he's
had three years of success, wildsuccess. But the most part that I'm

(44:22):
still proud of Funds is how humbleand how down to earth he is.
He hasn't let success get over hishead. That tells you a lot about
him. So where can he goafter buying? That is tough question.
Where can you go after buying?He's one of the best clubs in the
league. So where in the worldwhere do you go after buying? Where?

(44:42):
Real Madrid? I have no answer. So for me, if you
look at if you look at statusname, then it's buy a Minick,
Liverpool, Chelsea, Real, Madrid, Manchester City. Where else can he
go? I don't have an answerfor it, and we get asked it
every once in a while. Theone thing I got back to, though,
a little bit is is he wasa winger when he was in Vancouver.

(45:04):
Is that has he accomplished becoming anelite fallback and now it's that's the
next challenge or is I think Ithink he's still I think the great thing
responses he is very firstile in thenational team. He plays striker, which
is good, so that so thatteaches him how to play different So when
he's a left back, he exactlyknows how maybe to serve a ball to

(45:27):
the striker. That's why the biggestimprovement I saw him make was his end
product, which we talked about alot about which I was always on him
because when you look at the gameagainst Chelsea, how he skipped to defenders
with his agility, with his pace, with his mobility. He was doing

(45:49):
that the Whitecaps, but then hisfinal ball will never result into goal.
And when he gave that to Lewandowski, it was a great satisfaction because of
the things that we worked and hecame to life and he was and he
came to life with great players,and there was the things that we were
talking about. I'm like, whereyou going, It's going to be different
because you're everyday training with world classplayers, so you're only bound to get

(46:13):
better with that high ceiling as hehas and learning from Lebanoski as a strike
of being the national team scene,how the Funci is best when the game,
when he can face the game.So I think he can he can
be immortal as as a left backfor the coming fifteen twenty years. The
potential there is exciting. Obviously,the reality has been exciting as well,

(46:36):
and we've been enjoying following him withyou know, of course in Europe,
but what the Canadian national team hasdone, and the rumors are that the
game in Hamilton's already sold out againstthe US and it should be. It
should be. That's that's why thelevel of that there's the rivalry you want
to create that with Canada and US, and not only US with Mexico,

(46:58):
that they also know that there's athere's a country up north with the North,
like like the Canadian slogan and wethe North, that there's also producing
players because there's a lot of goodplayers in Canada. It's just because Canada
has not had this on domestic leaguelike they haven't right now with the CPL,
so where you can see young playersgrow and the league is only two
years old. But there's a lotof talents in Canada. There's a lot

(47:22):
of lot of lots of lots oftalents that people don't see. What what's
something that you want to see forthe CPL in the next two, three,
four or five years. What's indicationsfor you that the league is continuing
to grow and that it's on theright path in terms of what it wants
to do for me more profitsionalism,which is okay, which is normal that

(47:45):
you get. And that's why Ialways tell let's let's look into what MLS
is doing, and let's look intowhat MLS has done, because I always
say you, I always say forsomething, if you want to start something,
look at the past, take thegood things from the past, bring
it into the present so that wecan involve in the future. So every
to see where MLS was in ninetysix to where MLS is now. Even

(48:09):
when you showed up in twenty thirteen, Oh yeah, it was much further
along. But in the last eightyears. It's wild because you know,
I'm in Portland Farmlesque Cup and you'rethinking back to when Chris Boyd was on
the team and when they debuted.It just feels like the league is in
a different stratosphere every four or fiveyears. No, I mean it's it's
it's it's it's huge. It's amassive and owners are understanding and the league

(48:32):
is understanding for the evolution it hasto go through. Mavery was the first
Socco Pacific stadium and now almost everybodyhas a Socco Pacific stadium and training ground,
which is some of the best inthe world. Some of the best
in the world, right, Andthat's the beauty of America is when they

(48:54):
decide to do something, they doit properly, which is a great thing.
Right in Europe, if you lookat some of the training facilities they
steed on school, they haven't hadany upgrades on anything. And now you
come to American and the players seethis, You're like wow. So that's
the way it is heading. Thefuture of football is going to come to

(49:15):
America. Believe in them. Itfeels that way, And obviously twenty twenty
six is there's an important date thata lot of it's leading up too.
I could do this for five hours. I don't want to appreciate you coming.
I'll bring you back again next year, don't worry. I want to
close you out on this though you'reobviously a fan of the game, you're
always watching and now with your seasonoff, you have a little bit of

(49:37):
time. What's your number one joyof team or player around the world to
watch? What is the you know, this game's on, this team's playing
or this person's playing on a weekend, and that's the one that you're circling
and going to watch the one game, team, club style, coach,

(49:57):
whatever it is. Me, I'ma Liverpool fan, so I've always been
a Liverpool fan since since I waseight. So for me, I try
to catch as much as Liverpool games, but the most fascinating games that I
like to watch is actually Liverpool againstLeeds because of Marcelo Bisa and man City

(50:22):
because I think I think those threecoaches for me, I especially b I
enjoy a lot. I enjoy alot watching him seeing and seeing what he
does, taking teams that don't havesuccess and just and just hit it going
right. I enjoy watching pop Pepand how he how he brought back the

(50:46):
love for the game. Like Isaid, I will call it with the
basil play and what the game shouldlook like and then club you know,
for for a way that he's takinghis mind's dot Mund and now Liverpool show
that you can have success in differentclub with your beliefs as a human being,
which which he always put forward thento have success. So those three

(51:08):
coaches I actually enjoy toally much watchingand I will always rewatch the games just
for learning purposes as well. Andin MLS I will always follow the Timbers.
I always follow follow white Caps,but also I watch every other game.
That is he is sometimes more whiteget mad at me because but but

(51:31):
every MLS games I watch because forlearning purposes for me as well. Yeah,
another team coming in next year,so it only makes it harder,
only more games to watch, moregames, which is great man, It's
it's a great development for the league. It's going to be an interesting year.
Bob Bradley in Toronto, he talkedabout Bob. It's still his LAFC

(51:52):
teams. The style they played tome is the best I've ever seen in
MLS. It was one of thegreat don't forget answers. I don't don't
don't forget cancers, but don't alsoforget us in twenty thirteen. Don't forget
us in twenty thirteen. In twentythirteen. We played, we played,
We played a very exciting brand offootball. But Cancer also Cancers also has

(52:13):
been fantastic in the way that theyplay Philly with Jim Curtain. They also
have the undefined style that they played. No matter what you know, it
may not always be pleasing or excitingon the eye. But I don't want
to watch Theirs as much as LAFC. You're talking about the ball, but
Philly pressing people off the field,No, but that is also part of

(52:36):
the game, you know. That'swhy I said there's different ways to play.
But if you look at even ifyou look at New England this year,
they were very much attacking. NewEngland was very much attacking. But
LAFC it's it's it's one Bob hadthere and got them going. Was was
obviously one of the best. Butalso I enjoy Cancers when Cancers playing their

(52:59):
fourteen at times. Also they canplay good brand. About the LAFC won
this, I don't they will theywill be. Yeah, we didn't win
the league. We didn't win withso many points that they did. But
I think the twenty thirty in Portland, if you go back and watch us,
we also played the exciting Bana forYeah, it was it was good.

(53:22):
It was Nagbi at one of hispeaks as well, which was always
fun to watch nigge Man nag Me. I don't think people understand how of
a great player, but mostly ofa person he is. If Nague was
a player that was always talking abouthimself, people will take notice. But
how humble he is and still dothe things that he does. And he's

(53:43):
a winner right everywhere he's gone,he's won. Any team that he's gone,
he's won, and that's remarkable.And every time he leaves that team
doesn't get better. Yeah, SoI just tell you, They just tell
you how much of a talent heis and how much of he commands in
the team when he's in there,and when you look at one of the

(54:05):
best midfielders in this league, togo through the history of twenty five years
in MLS, he's up there.And I will fight anybody on that,
Pam. I think there's a lotof people who not only would they be
alongside you, but then they wouldturn and say, talented play for the
US, We'd love to have youin the national team. To have the
things he does in an Azteca,No, he has he has something that

(54:30):
is very unique. That's why heknows this. And I've always told him
that my greatest joy would have beento see him in Europe. Yeah,
because the way that he would haverepresented America for people to see where you've
been incredible. You can join himin any team he can play. And
people are saying maybe I'm being biased, No, I'm speaking of from the

(54:51):
footballistic and holistic place when it comesto the game. Darlington nine, you
can chuck him into any team hewill play. That's just that's just how
good of a player he is.And I do believe that everybody that plays
around with him or against him recognizethat he is probably the most technical player
that this country has ever produced.And and as you said, in that

(55:15):
top twenty or top whatever in thetwenty five twenty six years of this league,
that puts him in there. Ohyeah, may yeah, I'll put
him up there. And I knowpeople like to speak about stats all like
this, but his stats speaks forhimself. He's a champion. Yeah,
yeah, Yeah, he's a champion. He's won everywhere he's been um and

(55:36):
there's no mistake about that. Sohe won with Portland, he won with
Atlanta and he won with Columbus.And how many how many players I've actually
gone to different teams and one inMLS? How many have done it?
Maybe I think it's two three,Maybe I believe it's maybe. If I'm
not mistaken, I think it's onlytwo or three players that I've done it,

(55:57):
if I'm not mistaken. Yeah,I'm trying to think of names right
now, and everyone's lost in myhead. Kai Kamar has been to a
couple of finals with different teams.Yeah, both finals and winning. For
me, it's different because ultimately that'swhat you remember. And I love guy
Michael Parkhurst another guy finals, butonly with wins with Atlanta exactly. Yeah,

(56:19):
that's a great question. Okay,Well, Paul, thank you for
taking the time. I appreciate it. We're looking forward to next year.
We're looking forward to what you puttogether with Pacific FC. We're looking forward
to the future for the CPL andof course for your future. And obviously
everyone who listens to this show onthe show is a big supporter of you,
and we are excited for what thefuture may bring. Thank you so

(56:42):
much for taking the time, andhappy New year. Thank you man.
Pleasures over mind Oh, it's fourpeople. Sorry, it's four people.
Sorry to that because I got gotto it's four people. It's Brian Moullin.
He won with La San Jose andHouston and Colorado. Then it's Craig
Wieble with La San Jose and Houston, and then Moreno with LA Houston,

(57:07):
Columbus, Crew Ezra with LA DCColumbus, and I think Will Johnson Darlington
and Will Johnson. So here's onething all throughout, Wibles is a little
different because San Jose became Houston.So while he did win with multiple clubs,
the club moved. I don't knowthat that counts. Is the same.

(57:29):
Oh, it's counts because it's abecause because it's an expansion, it
was looked at his viewed as anexpansion. No, but the same club
with the same coach and players movedfrom one city to the other and change
it doesn't matter, they change name, they change name. So it's a
new club that I'm putting it ina different category. Give give the guy

(57:50):
something. It's him now, Craigknows I'm a fan of his and what
he's built. He's he's a goodguy. So then you put Nigie in
there and and that's that's proper MLSVENs with with with great names in MLS,
done well for the league and tobe up there that is from thastic.
Same with Ezra is a huge one, you know, and him now

(58:12):
going into coaching, it's massive andit's now hope he does fantastic. We're
excited for what he can bring forChicago. It's a club that needed that
that refreshed, They needed vision,they needed someone who could kind of guide
them. It feels like it's beensort of floating aimlessly in the water.
And obviously, as you said,he has won everywhere he's been, both

(58:34):
as an assistant coach, as aUSL coach, and as a player of
course. Um so he seems likethe right guy to do it. Okay,
And on that note, send usall your questions. You know,
you can follow us on Patreon andthen join the discord. You can tweet
at us as well, add afootball pod and um at pomodica as well,
and let us know what you thinkbecause we've gone around in this conversation,

(58:58):
which I'm very happy about. UmSo, let us know what you
thought it and if you left youwith any burning questions or any burning thoughts
as well, or if you justwant to talk about the greatness that is
Challegeton Magbie. All right, that'sall for us. We'll talk to you
next time.