February 1, 2023 • 39 mins
On this special episode of AFP 1v1 Devang Desai And David Gass are joined by Columbus Crew SC President Tim Bezbatchenko. The three of them discuss winning the MLS Cup with Columbus, the next chapter for the Crew, their brand new signing Bradley Wright-Phillips, the future of the MLS and his time with Toronto and Greg Vanney departing TFC.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:22):
Hello, and welcome to a footballpodcast. My name is Debang Desai and
I'm joined as always by mister DavidGoss. On today's show, we interview
Columbus crew president Tim Besbachenko, freshoff the twenty twenty MLS Cup triumph.
David, it's been quite the yearfor Tea Bez, hasn't it. Yeah?
For sure. I think this isprobably what he had planned, right.
(00:45):
He was like, I gotta builda roster that is resilient, two
global pandemics, massive layoffs, Orlandobased full tournaments, and then home based
on ls cups. So you know, I'm assuming that was his blueprint and
he nailed it. I think thisis our final show of twenty twenty,
and it made sense to talk tosomeone who, as you touched on,
(01:06):
David, I think, maneuvered allthe wildness that was twenty twenty, the
best of anyone in MLS to assemblethe squad that was good enough and built
well enough to peek at the righttime and frankly stunned Seattle in the final.
We talked to Vez about that aboutColumbus' roster construction, and we also
(01:26):
get a little nerdy David, listen, I think anyone who listens to this
show knows kind of what we knowof, like how weird Major League Soccer
is. But we spoke to AngusMcNab a few weeks ago from the CPL,
and these leagues fascinate me of likewhat's the plan, what's the goal?
How do you win? But alsobuild a league and build players.
(01:46):
There's so much going on, andI think, in my mind, Bez
is the best guy to ask thesequestions too, because he has done a
lot of these things already, buthe's thought about all of them. I
mean, he's going to be oneof the ones who creates the future of
soccer and this continent. So Ithink you and me have talked a lot
so far since we've started this showabout a lot of these things. What
(02:08):
does MLS want to be, whatis the future of the sport, what
type of players? Transactions? Allthese things, And I think we kind
of came around at the end too. Bez is the best guy to answer
all these questions for us so thatit's not just us wondering constantly. I
think the puzzle that is Tan gametc. Is hard for anyone to work
out, but Bez is one ofthose guys and just going back DG through
(02:31):
some of the successful teams he's builtand the rosters he's built. It's the
way he's acquired these players that screamsMLS and knowing the league. And not
to say that someone who doesn't haveexperienced league couldn't pull these off, but
I think has definitely helped him.And a lot of similarities as well between
that twenty twenty crew side and theteam that won for Toronto in twenty seventeen.
Yeah, absolutely, I think wewere talking about Marquis Delcado as an
(02:54):
acquisition before we jumped out of likethey got that guy in the chief USA
Dispersal Draft who ended up starting anMLS Cup in a CCL final for his
team. Now you look at Columbus, where in Toronto was mainly overseas acquisitions
and signings, and now in Columbusit's been a lot of trades homegrown players
(03:15):
on top of Zellion, So he'skind of pushed every lever in MLS history
and he's done it pretty well andeven moves where it's like I'm pretty sure
he traded for Evan Bush before MLSCup even happened. So he's constantly working
and moving and doing these things.But it's the reason his teams remain competitive
year after year. We get intosome future stuff regarding MLS in the league
(03:36):
in general, but we also touchon the pass and I know a section
of our fan base is supporters ofToronto FC and what happened in twenty fourteen,
the change of this franchise, thecourse change of bringing Greg Vanny on
and what happened after that. Wetouch on that, David. I think
you're talking about alternate histories that arewhere things could have gone a different path,
(03:57):
the butterfly effect of those series ofevents twenty fourteen. What a different
timeline we could have seen. Yeah, And I've been thinking a lot about
it too, because full discloses everyone. We're recording this a week or so
early. LAFC just lost to Tgressin the CCL final, and I've been
talking to a friend who me andhim been doing this for fifteen years of
watching CCL and being heartbroken, andyou'd started talking about the finals and twenty
(04:20):
twenty eighteen, sorry comes to mind, and then the error of Toronto FC,
and now what can COLUMBUSOO going forward? And Bob Bradley and Michael Bradley,
And there's so much going on rightnow that I've been thinking about with
how close MLS is, how farit is, where it even is that
I'm talking about getting too and allthose things. And I think we mentioned
(04:45):
it a few weeks ago on theshow, but I think Garth Logerway taking
over in Seattle and Timbezbachenko taking overin Toronto, and I would put Ali
Curtis as well taking over in NewYork kind of to me is another era
of MLS in the Point os Um. And so it's pretty cool to think
about the way these guys have changedthis league. You choose, You chose
(05:05):
to bring this up, so Iwill pick up this gab. Do you
think Marky should have scored on thatchance in the twenty eighteen final an extra
time? And that was my friend'sfirst response yesterday when I was like,
it happens this way every time.That was but you know what, whatever,
we don't need to dig back intoit. But didn't Michael start in
(05:25):
center back that game? And Vasquezwas healthy for forty five minutes and Josie
was hurt. That's a rough run, man. A lot of things happened.
I can still picture Presaro's free kickjust floating in over Bono. I
was like right behind it when itgot hit at BMO and was like,
there's no chance that goes in andstill haunts me. I'm sure it haunts
you worse. Good times. Okay, Quickly moving on from that street talking
(05:49):
to Bezu David, I think aswe capped this year and go on to
twenty twenty, where a molest goesfrom here is one of the things that
we talked between ourselves the most.And I listen, the pandemic isn't over,
and the league has to plan aroundthat and how they get these games
off and what what the schedule reallylooks like going forward. So there's plenty
(06:09):
to discuss with Tim Besbachenko of theCrew. Enjoy our discussion with him after
the break. Welcome back to afootball podcast. Joining us on the line,
Columbus Crew president and recently crowned MLSCup Champion. It's Tim Bespachenko.
(06:30):
What's ups, nothing, guys?How are you guys doing? We're doing
well. I think it's serendipitous you'rechatting with us on air Canada headphones.
I believe that's right. Uh,you know it's it's kind of a symbolic
of how this year has been,you know. It's it's, uh,
there's not a lot of people inthe office today, and so trying to
find headphones so that Gas can hearhimself speak, can I hear himself speaks?
(06:56):
So it's it's a gift for Gas. But I didn't have my you
know, my Bluetooth around here.So I looked in the back of my
drawer and I found this nice setof Bluetooth Airline headphones. So, uh,
it's it's sort of how twenty twentyworks, right, You may do
with what you got. It's alsoclassic Air Canada, always reliable, never
let you down. Oh that's right, great airline. Nothing but great things
(07:16):
to say about air kenuh fs.We've had a few days a week or
so to to kind of regroup afteryour club's triumph against Seattle and MLS Cup.
I was wondering the final few minutesof that game, what were what
was going through your head as yousaw this club win they cut for the
second time in its history. Therewere so many emotions, to be honest.
(07:39):
Um, we sit in in ain a suite that has a mix
of technical people and commercial folks,and um, there's so many emotions because
there's so many layers to this,this this win and this championship for this
city and this ownership. So um, during the game, you're trying not
to think about what, uh whatthe result will be until it happens,
(08:01):
because we've all you know, beenpart of teams and games that it takes
a quick turn. So it's notuntil that final whistle, even though we
were winning, that you really letit sink in and and and so my
emotions were were deep, um,you know, first and foremost for the
city and the fans, including myfamily who who who even when I was
with a different club up in Toronto, they stayed true to their their uh
(08:26):
they're black and gold. So um, you know, I think, I
think just just tremendous satisfaction and enjoyand humility of the fact that we were
able to come back here and andand build something that the city could be
proud of a second um our ownership, you know, thinking about their their
you know, in ways trials andtribulations with with with sports so far with
(08:50):
the Cleveland Browns who are now aredoing very well, by the way,
but but the ability to give themand the hass sums and then obviously doctor
Pete Edwards, um, you know, not only the first playoffs, but
but but their first championship I thinkwas extremely meaningful to everybody involved. And
then the last layer is is sortof this idea that we're moving into a
(09:11):
new era and what it means forour ability to um close what was Mottfrey
Stadium which has now been removed.As I look out my window, it's
it's now we're calling it back tocru Stadium. UM, but what was
what it is a historic venue forthis building that I've I've had so many
experiences dating back to my high schooldays, and so for me, it's
(09:35):
there were so many sort of offfield issues that were sort of coming together.
Uh. And then and then youtalk about the work that that Caleb
and the players and pat onstat andIs Satall and Neal McGinnis, all of
our soccer operations put in just tomake sure that we could be playing the
game, let alone putting out ourbest starting eleven because we weren't even sure,
(09:58):
you know, leading up to theNew England game and leading up to
to to MLS Cup who would beavailable for our team. So I can't
tell you how nerve wracking that is. Uh, that's probably the hardest thing
I've ever had to experience in myprofessional career, is going day to day
waiting for the results to come in, having the calls, uh, not
(10:18):
knowing if on the other end ofthe line, you know, Christenberg or
a head athletic trainer is the personthat's sharing the information with me, but
not knowing if if if if you'regoing to have who you're going to have
the next day, or who Caleb'sgoing to have it at his disposable for
the game. So I could goon and on, but the emotions were
plenty, but it was it wasyou know, at the end of the
(10:39):
day, it was tremendous joy andsatisfaction and relief. I'm curious, obviously
you've won MLS Cup before, butin different times. What was a twenty
twenty MLS Cup win and celebration,Like, I mean, you mentioned the
pregame of you don't know who's available. Now you're not really allowed to be
in places and see people. Youcan't get to the parade. What what
(11:01):
has it been like since that victory? This time maybe compares the last.
Yeah, it's been a little bitdifferent because last time in Toronto and after
twenty sixteen where we played so well, they didn't have a shot on goal,
and yet we failed to win becausewe lost in penalty kicks. And
so all of twenty seventeen was thisthis idea that we need to make H
(11:24):
make good for what happened the yearbefore H. And then it turned into
a historic season with a trouble,so it became this the capstone of something
that was was was a historic seasonand there was a lot of pressure on
the guys and I think you feltit, and so there was tremendous relief
and then it quickly rolled into uh, well, let's let's win Champions League
(11:46):
as well. So I think inToronto there's this idea of let's keep it
going and um, whereas this oneis certainly that, I mean, we
want to keep it going, butin a year of COVID, I think
it means so much something different tothe people and the city, given what
everybody has gone through. So uh, the emotions on the night were a
little bit different. And then sincethen, the buzz in the city is
(12:09):
still here. Um, I thinkeveryone is talking about how they can't wait
from the new stadium to open,and uh and and and they're just talking
about the story right that that thatyou know, three years ago, we
weren't sure that the team was goingto be here. The owner wanted to
take the team and leave. UM. And and now we are sitting here
champions MLS Cup, Champions, AndI think it everywhere I go. UM.
(12:33):
You know, I'm not going toto many public places, but but
certainly in my neighborhood and and andand all all the zoom calls and then
all the notes. The outpouring ofof joy and happiness for for for the
club from all of our new parta lot of new partners and old partners
alike are is tremendous. And it'sso it's uh, it's been. It's
everywhere still on high um even youknow where it's draft season here in MLS,
(12:56):
and as we get on all thesecalls to do drafts, uh,
thinking about roster building for next year. It's it's just there's a sense of
pride that you have and what youwere able to accomplish accomplish a last season,
and and what was great about itwas the way that you know,
the way that we I felt wedid it. The guys overcame a number
of challenges COVID throughout the entire season, but they played so well throughout the
(13:18):
playoffs. We were in first placeI think over half of the entire season
in the standings, over almost theentire I think a half of the season.
Of the weeks, we were infirst place. And so it wasn't
a surprise to us that we werein the finals. I think other people
like other storylines. But we hityou know, an injury, a spell
with injuries that that hurt us.And but but we knew once if we
(13:39):
could be able to get some momentumand get a couple of wins before the
playoffs, that we were going tobe a team that was going to be
hard to beat in the playoffs.And we were just so excited to have
that opportunity and finish it off againstyou know, a team that has been
so good over the last you know, three or four years in Seattle.
Well, when it was confirmed thatDarlington, AGB and Santos would be out,
as when was the decision made thatAidan Morris would be the guy.
(14:01):
Was this the sort of thing whereit's like, all right, we know
who we're going to pivot to you, he's ready for this amongst the club.
Yeah, So Pedro was early inthe week because we played the game
on Saturday, I believe against NewEngland. He's a Saturday. And then
we found out we do testing thatnight right after the game, and maybe
that was a Sunday, and thenso we found out on a sort of
Sunday night Monday on Pedro. Imean, Darlington was was, you know,
(14:26):
Thursday morning when we officially knew duringtraining and so we Caleb ass to
be told regardless of the outcome ofthe confirmation of the positive during you know,
even if it's during training, andso he had he already he already
had Aiden in sort of the walkthrough, the tactical walkthrough set up. So
(14:48):
I would say it was it wasimmediate. I think right when we had
a sense that there was a positive. I think you looked down and um
and I think in terms of whatwe needed out of the game and what
we wanted to do versus Seattle,it's going to look a little bit different
than Darlington. But but Aiden hasa tenacity and an intensity that probably one
(15:11):
of the one of the highest inthe team in terms of his ability to
attack the ball and and and wintackles, and people don't give him enough
credit of what he can do onthe ball. You know, he's he's
an eight that that can play andsort of that double pivot is sort of
the six to eight. Uh,And he looks to play the ball forward.
So in some ways he's a littlemore vertical than than Darlington, who's
going to wiggle around players and keeppossession. Aiden can do that or Archer
(15:35):
sort of assume that position from fromDarlington. Then Adio plays more the direct
vertical ball. So I think,you know, I think to answer your
question, it was pretty immediate.There wasn't a whole lot of back and
forth. Now, now Klin mighttell you in his mind he was thinking
about it for twenty four hours,but I think we all knew that that
what was probably going to happen.I want to ask, and we're going
(15:56):
to talk about academies a little bitmore coming up, But I remember being
in bemo field when Jonathan Osorio startedin the final and it was like,
Wow, this guy's an academy guywho played at this level. But you
know, that was a much differentage. Did you ever think you'd see
something like this, where and anacademy player as a teenager would be able
to step into MLS Cup and notjust even be at that level, right,
(16:18):
but highly performed, be one ofthe better players on the field.
Like did you think this day wassomething you'd ever see or see this quickly?
Um? Probably not this quickly.But I don't think we don't think
about that too much. We don'tthink about kind of I mean, that's
that's I think that's fun to talkabout sort of on on shows like this.
But you know, we're we're tryingto build a winner. It's important,
(16:41):
no, I think in Toronto,I remember we had we had a
goal of, you know, overhalf the roster to be homegrown by twenty
twenty two. Um. And andI think the first step is to is
that where building your roster where thebackbone is your academy and we're trying to
do that here as well. Um. The next step is to have a
(17:02):
certain number of players actually performing foryour team and winning championships. And I
think Asorio is a good example ofthat. I think there are other players
in Toronto's roster that that you're actuallywinning trophies. They're on the field when
you are playing in championship games,and I think that's the next step.
And I think we were able toshowcase what that meant to what that means
(17:25):
to have a player like Aiden who'snineteen years old. But we see it
around the world, UM, andso I think it's really just us sort
of catching up to the rest ofthe world in terms of our our our
academy blossoming into into these these thesethese um these feeder systems to the first
team and now that we're going tobe part of players need to show that
(17:45):
they can win because then they wouldmaybe be available to be sold or um
they actually help you save money onyour salary cap or that's a higher return
on your investment to the community becausethe community that sees themselves in the players
that are on the field, souh, you know, the returns are
three or four or fold compared tomaybe another type of player. And I
(18:07):
think that's what's so exciting is Ithink this is the evolution of the league,
UM in terms of of of ofof being able to showcase our homegrown
talent on the fields in important matchesthat help you win games. And he
did that. Aiden did that,and so happy for him. And then
there's other players that did that throughoutthe year. I think, um,
you know Bubakar Kata and Sebastian BurhalterUm. And then let's talk about the
(18:30):
other homegrown players on a roster.Jossy's artis and the first DP homegrown player
who is a homegrown player, youknow, Derek Etienne is a homegrown player,
and and and the Red Bulls andGalaxy should be proud of that because
they were able to get you know, an asset in return and then that
player goes on and has success inhis career. And so I think MS
should be proud of of of thefinal uh and the players that are out
(18:52):
there because it did reflect it doesreflect the investment in our, in our
in our full player pathway, asevidence by players who won the field.
I think in regular times, theoff season sneaks up pretty quickly on on
clubs, cup ends, and it'sit's onto roster deliberations. But I think
the season that takes on some moresignificance as we are basically right into it.
(19:15):
But as I was wondering building achampionship team within the MLS mechanisms and
the roster structures with performance incentives andincreasing salaries. Keeping a good MLS roster
together from year to year. It'snot an easy task. And we already
have had the re entry draft starting. But you've done this a couple of
(19:37):
times now. I guess overall,as you re enter planning for the next
season, how hectic is this periodand have this ability to keep this team
in place changed over the years.This is a different process now in twenty
twenty than it was maybe in twentyseventeen. Well, first and foremost,
it's it's it's brutal having to haveconversations and these changes, like the day
literally the day after you win onthe last Cup or lose it in the
(19:59):
case of what happened in sixteen,so you are literally celebrating on a Saturday
night and then on Sunday because playersand families were not allowed on the field,
we had a family and friends gatheringon the pitch on Sunday, tiered
and separated based you know, dueto covid um. And then right after
(20:19):
that celebration, I think that wasfrom twelve to two, you know,
we had player meetings from two tothree, and you're talking about talking about
how quickly I have to shift frombeing you know, celebrating to having some
difficult conversation. It's brutal, andit's not frank, it's not fair,
and I think we have to changeit, and I think everybody would be
open to changing it. I knowI've talked it to Garth about it because
(20:41):
we've had to do us a numberof times. And and and luckily we
weren't a part of the expansion draftthis year, because that is actually probably
the one of the harder conversations.The players who are coming out of contract
or you're not exercising their options,you've you've spoken to their agent already.
The expansion draft is really the hardone. And when you're telling a player
that he's not protected even though maybethey started in MLS Cup the night before.
(21:03):
So we were able to avoid thatdue to Luis Argudo getting picked up
last year by Miami, so wedidn't have to worry about having that conversation
with players. Um. But butto answer your question about roster building,
it's it's not hard to keep theteam together. It's actually impossible. You
literally, in a salary cap world, cannot keep your roster together like you
(21:23):
can another if you really wanted to, you could in other and other leagues
and other places around the world.So um, so you have to make
tough, you know, hard decisions. You have to you have to prepare
for it. You have to accumulateassets to help buy down certain players.
You have to plan your dp UHsignings and your TAM signings well ahead.
Um. And you know that youhave to have contingency scenarios so that if
(21:47):
you win, you know, it'sgoing to look like this because of the
bonuses. If you lose, it'sgoing to look like this. Uh.
And so there's a number of there'sa number of of of of of models
and that you have to run andto plan for for different different scenarios.
But it's it's it's impossible in ourleague, you could do it. You
can hang on for a couple ofyears and and sort of uh you know,
(22:10):
um sort of you know what Iwant to say, sort of put
glue and and and and tape andand try to hang on for as long
as you can. But eventually thesalary cap uh sort of monster comes and
you're going to have to make abig decision on a player. And that
happens sometimes naturally with age. UM. Maybe a positional change, maybe a
(22:33):
coach wants to change things tactically.But but right now we're still in the
building up and that's it's so soexcited. Why I'm so excited about this
roster is that we're having success rightnow, but we feel like we haven't
hit our peak. And going intothe new stadium, we had always planned
on on adding more more players,more special players, maybe another designated player
(22:55):
um, but but now we don'tfeel like we don't have to. We
don't have to do it right duringa period where it's hard to scout in
person and live, so you haveto factor that in. And and there's
so excitement around this team, andthis team's playing well enough that you don't
necessarily have to sign another zelaryon justyet. Not that you could find another
(23:15):
player at that level, but butyou know what I mean. You know
you don't find the Javinkas and theZealands every day? Are those? Are?
Those? Are? You know?Every few years? But you did
mention another DP. You do havetwo dps on your team that are on
the lower end and could be boughtdown and create that spot. I guess
that leads into a bigger question ofjust for Columbus as a market, as
a franchise, as a club,and then maybe MLS in general. Do
(23:37):
you have to make another big signingto keep up? Is there a spot
that you think you need that playerat or is that a projection on where
the league's going? Where's that thoughtprocess? Yes, so I answer your
question, No, I don't thinkwe have to do it, And I
think that's where are What we're tryingto build here is going to be a
little bit different than my former club, where I think the expectations from ownership
(24:00):
in the city and um, isthat that you're going to be, you
know, a super club, signingsome of the highest paid players around,
you know, in the league,and and that's great and I love being
a part of that. And Ithink the model of what we're trying to
do here is a little bit different, which is how can you build a
roster in the outside of the topquarter in spending but still build a championship
(24:22):
team and a team that can contendeach year. And I think that's the
challenge. I don't think you've reallyseen it since maybe you know, Kansas
City in twenty thirteen. Um,who's really sort of build a roster around
players that you know not are notyou know, you don't have three players
in the top sort of twenty tothirty spend in the league. I think
it's more of a balanced roster.And and that's okay, And I think
(24:44):
I think you talk people talk aboutyou guys talk about it all the time
in terms of different identities. Butwe want to be a profitable club.
That's the other hat I wear ona day to day basis is as we're
not going to spend, you know, with the highest top sort of five
or six in the league. We'rejust not because frankly, our revenues don't
justify it. And we're already buildingover three hundred million dollars stadium, a
(25:04):
thirty five million dollars training facility.And so we want to be balanced,
not just a balance roster, buta balance club, and we want to
build to a profitability. And Ithink that's that's that's a good thing for
our league, is how do weget to a place where we're spending within
our means, but we're also buildingan exciting attacking roster that's fun to watch
and we're winning and and I thinkor I know that that's that's that's our
(25:29):
vision for the club, and it'sgoing to be different from from every club,
from other clubs because they want tomaybe do something different. In Philadelphia
they're doing something different. In Torontothey're doing something different. As you had
a big opportunity to flex there whenyou said not everyone can find is Laon
or a Javinko or a Vasquez.You have several times there. Yeah,
we we have. Thank you.I appreciate that. You know, first
(25:49):
of all, uh, it's notme, you know, you know,
it's a whole team. So whetheror not it's Jack, Jack Dodd and
Cory Ray up up up in Toronto, and then Greg was heavily involved up
there, and then down here,it's I mean, you know the work
that Neil McGinnis does, and IssaTall and a certainly pad Onstad and then
(26:10):
Caleb was heavily involved. It's notlike in other sports where you just signed
the player and you say here yougo. Uh, and soccer it is
eleven players that have to work togetheralmost as one. And as you guys
all know that, it's it's howthe pieces fit together because they take up
certain spaces on the field. Sohow does Zelereon work because he likes to
drift left, and how does hework with Darlington and Pedro and how are
(26:33):
those going to work together. Soit's going to take uh, you know,
Caleb's tactical mind and then uh sortof you know Pat's pragmatism and uh
and then our entire scouting network Neilwho's there first and seves players, and
then our our ground scouts in variouscountries. So um, I think that's
what changed when I came here waswas, you know, we've replicated some
(26:55):
of the processes that we did upin Toronto, and I think it bear
fruit in zelereon um um because becauseI think we we we followed the process
and we created a competitive process sothat at the end you you're coming together
with three or four names that youwould be satisfied with. But Zeleron just
just just fit the best within thatpuzzle. Time for a quick break for
(27:17):
our sponsors. After the break,more with Bez in terms of adding now
to this puzzle, the crew ofadded Broudley right Phillips to the squad and
touching on that puzzle, Bez,how does how does BWP fit into this
squad? Um? He fits becausefirst and foremost, he is by all
(27:41):
accounts a great human being and agreat teammate. And you know, when
you when you go through championship winningseasons, you want to be careful about
who you bring onto your team andthe dynamic that that that that it creates
in the locker room, on thetraining pitch every day, because it's not
just about the talent on paper,it's about how these players interact. And
(28:03):
and every time I've interacted with BradleyUm as well as all of his interviews,
he's always giving credit to his teammates. He's always speaking on the about
the collective Um. The way heplays the game, he defends for the
team. Uh, just the amountof sheer work that he did for the
Red Pulse over a number of yearsis remarkable. UM. So we're just
(28:23):
so excited about the person we're bringinginto the club, and I think that
speaks to what we're trying to buildhere. Um. This isn't about the
star players and about themselves or theor the coaching staff or the front office.
This is we're just trying to We'retrying to make sure that we're reflective
of the values of the city andand and so he's a humble player and
(28:45):
then you know, I could goon and on about his skill in the
pitch. We all know he's he'she's he's multi UH time supporter, shield
winner, Golden Boot winner, um. So we're excited about what he brings
to the team on the field offthe field, but he will allow us
to present a different look up topthan GIOSC at times. We also know
(29:07):
that we're likely to lose GOC toGold Cup. We have Champions League,
we have US Open Cup, butwe don't know how congested the schedule will
be if COVID comes back in adifferent way and affects this season. So
there's so many variables at play thathaving a player like BWP available for your
coach allows us to play a certainstyle and play it both on the road
(29:32):
and at home. We're gonna havea heavy away schedule first because we're we're
backloading our games, our home gamesbecause we have the opening of the stadium
in July. So there's so manyreasons why it makes sense for us to
sign a player like BWP and andso we're excited about having him, but
but we're also not finished with theroster changes. We're looking to make a
couple other signings. You know betweennow and the beginning of the year.
(29:56):
Now excuse me not being in theyearbeginning of the season. I'm excit just
for Brad to potentially win a youknow, a cup competition. He's been
waiting for a little while. Yeah, yeah, you're right, he hasn't
done that. That's right, that'sright that we would love to give it
to him. And you know howexcited would exciting would it be to go
and make a run and try todo something similar to we did this year,
(30:18):
but in the new stadium for playerslike b WP and then and then
obviously Pedro and Darlington who were notable to participate in the final, I
think they're going to be out lookingto right that wrong next year as well.
I wanted to ask you about oneof the big players that you're coach
wanted in Darlington Nagbe, and notjust him coming in, but made mainly
kind of what's gone on in theleague around his acquisition, which is these
(30:41):
big allocation money trades um. Andyou know, we were thinking back to
your time in Toronto for a longtime, you didn't really make a move
like that, and I don't knowthat the league really saw these moves until
the last two three years and nowyou're talking about a million one point two
one point five million allocation moving andNagby was one of those. Is this
a trend that you saw coming andhow is it maybe different from your point
(31:04):
of view in making this move comparedto bringing a player in from overseas for
a large amount of outlay. Soin Toronto I never had that money.
We didn't have allocation. We hadwe had, we had money obviously at
ownership investment in DPS, but wenever had allocation. And that's because you
know, we sold Daniel Henry,but we are never able to pick up
(31:27):
a big chunk of of allocation.That's the only way you can do it
by by selling a player. Ifif you don't trade a player and pick
up allocation. So it's a directorson my opinion of the influx of cash
from expansion. So as you know, the expansion draft used to be ten
players and then it went they cutit down to five and gave these expansion
(31:47):
teams more money to spend in theopen market and the econ major and me
as talking it thinks about the moneysupply, and you're increasing the money supply
and that's going to cause wages toincrease because there's more money in the system,
and so they're the expansion teams haveto go out and build rosters and
they want cornerstone pieces. And sothat was Atlanta, you know, from
(32:12):
Portland buying Darlington because they had cash. And so I'm not saying that that
they overspent on him, but atthe time that was that was more money
I think than ever had been paidfor a player. But that's a direct
result of the cash in the systemwhat's called allocation, right, And and
so what you're just seeing as aa trend of of of of expansion teams
(32:34):
being forced to go out and buythese players at these at these prices.
And so it's not a reasonable spending. It's not irrational exuberances as they would
call it in the in the inthe economy. It's just, um,
it's actually rational decisions. And sowhen you're looking to build a team like
we were coming in like I wascoming in in nineteen with Caleb, we're
looking at key pieces that would putus in contention for for championships and and
(32:59):
and play it in a style thatwas you know, that was reflective of
Caleb Porter and also myself and Patand Darlington. It was a key piece,
and so it became apparent that thatwe would need to spend. We
knew right away that we were goingto have to sort of collect and save
up to make us spend like wedid for Darlington. As we could talk
(33:20):
to you all day, but weknow you're a busy man, so we
will end on this. It wasthe end of an era in Toronto.
I think a chapter fully closed.I think when when Tim Lightwicky left and
then you departed for Columbus, thatwas a change, and then and then
Greg Vanny departing the club himself thisyear. I wanted to go back kind
of to twenty fourteen or maybe evenbeyond that, when you knew that Greg
(33:44):
was going to be the next headcoach of TFC, because I think by
all accounts there was a resounding successby by choosing him, and as he
goes forward, I think your decisionto make that change will last long in
the memories of TFC fans. SoI was just wondering if you could look
back on that before we go.Yeah. I mean, it's it's funny
because Jamie McMillan and Corey Ray twoemployees to two of my colleagues up in
(34:07):
Toronto have joined us since and andand down here and Crew UH and Crew
Land and Columbus as well as Esatalwho who left Toronto and then went to
FIFA. Actually for a number ofyears worked the World Cup, was on
the pitch with France when they whenthey won. Actually and then Uh joined
us here in Toronto, but inColumbus. But we talk about obviously the
(34:28):
family up and in Toronto that wehad left, and Greg and his staff
and Jim Liston and Dan Collisman,Robin Frasier, Nick teslaf there they were
part of the family and you getyou become really close with them and certainly
even more closer closer when you gothrough hard times like we did in Toronto,
and certainly the coaching change we madein fourteen was one of the most
difficult experiences and things I've ever hadto go through. Um, we were
(34:52):
we were actually part of we're inthe middle of a build up in Toronto
when we made that change. Gregcame on brit greg On as our academy
director and my assistant GM to actuallybuild our academy up there and are and
we started TFC two at the time, and so it was actually not part
of the plan. I know peoplelike to think it was. They've talked
(35:15):
about like it was, but Gregwasn't sure he was ready to be the
head coach at the time. Andhe'll tell you that, um he he.
He loves player development. He lovesbringing kids along and as they become
men and working to the first team. And so that's what what I was
so excited about was was giving Gregthe opportunity to to find himself as a
(35:37):
head coach, but to do itin a way where I knew he would
invest in the players from the academy, he knew them. He traveled with
them too. I think we thatthey went to Qatar and South Africa together.
This is I think this is likeeight io akonols the two thousand class.
You know, Greg literally went ontrips with them because as the academy
(35:58):
director, and so to see himsucceed and change and evolve into a not
just a good head coach, buta great head coaches is Uh. It's
really special for me and I thinkour everyone that has watched Greg uh succeed
over the years, and he's sucha good person and so I'm just so
happy for for for him and hisfamily, you know, for him,
(36:21):
that's just a great story. It'svery similar. I'm returning to in a
way to sort of reminder of sortof coming back to Columbus. This is
my hometown club. And I thinkGreg's meant so much to um To,
to the people in la And Idon't know if that's where he's going,
but it seems like it. Ihaven't spoken to him about it directly,
but you know, if he doesend up there, then what a great
(36:42):
homecoming it would be for him.Um But but it is. You know,
clubs change, club clubs evolve,projects, you know, end,
and and I think Greg's spoken aboutthe project ending up in Toronto, and
I felt in some ways that wasalso part of the decision for me to
leave. I felt like some ofthe building was already done there and they
were moving into a new era.But but you know, leave it to
(37:05):
great people and Bill, Bill Manningand Olie Curtis, who are some of
the closest friends and friends of mine, and great executives who no doubt,
well, we'll figure things out andmake great decisions to keep Toronto at the
top. Up in Toronto, obviously, I'll give shout out to Larry Tannebaum
as well, who's going to dowhatever it takes to win in such a
great ownership that they have up there. Be hope you can take some brief
(37:28):
time at least to celebrate the holidaysat their family and everyone in Columbus and
celebrate this massive achievement by yourself inthe club in twenty twenty. Thanks so
much for joining us. Hey,thanks for having me guys. You guys,
stay safe, happy holidays, andI'll see you in a few weeks,
I'm sure. Yeah, thank you, bass, all right, thanks
having guys. Major thanks to crewpresident Tim Bezbachenko for joining AFP. And
(37:52):
that's it. We did it.Twenty twenty is in the books, David.
There's what we do. We finishon a high. I'm ready to
just eat carbs for the next fourdays. That's kind of my plan.
So that's what referencing towards. Andyeah, I don't know, I guess
we'll be back in a week orso. So it's not really that big
a deal, um, exactly,it's the globe keep spinning. Um.
(38:15):
But he's he's on the show rightnow. He's just on in the background,
working in once and twos, butI wanted to take this time to
thank Nick and for being great,being a great producer and co host of
the show, and anyways, oneof the remind you guys, we're on
Twitter at a football Pod, sojoin us there. We're on Patreon dot
com forward slash a football pod.Join us, get the show at free
(38:37):
chat on the discord, and getmore interviews like the one we just did
with Bess, which I think ispretty cool, and we'll hopefully get to
do more of those. David,anything else you want to say before we
depart, not just happy whatever peopledo to everyone out there. I guess
happy New Year technically, and jumpon Patreon. That's where we're gonna all
(39:00):
our soccer takes out aka trash Liverpoolsomehow and get Nick rowled up even though
the best team in the world.So yeah, jump on over there for
Nick, David and myself. Thankyou so much for listening to AFP.
We'll talk to you next week.
Hello, and welcome to a footballpodcast. My name is Debang Desai and
I'm joined as always by mister DavidGoss. On today's show, we interview
Columbus crew president Tim Besbachenko, freshoff the twenty twenty MLS Cup triumph.
David, it's been quite the yearfor Tea Bez, hasn't it. Yeah?
For sure. I think this isprobably what he had planned, right.
(00:45):
He was like, I gotta builda roster that is resilient, two
global pandemics, massive layoffs, Orlandobased full tournaments, and then home based
on ls cups. So you know, I'm assuming that was his blueprint and
he nailed it. I think thisis our final show of twenty twenty,
and it made sense to talk tosomeone who, as you touched on,
(01:06):
David, I think, maneuvered allthe wildness that was twenty twenty, the
best of anyone in MLS to assemblethe squad that was good enough and built
well enough to peek at the righttime and frankly stunned Seattle in the final.
We talked to Vez about that aboutColumbus' roster construction, and we also
(01:26):
get a little nerdy David, listen, I think anyone who listens to this
show knows kind of what we knowof, like how weird Major League Soccer
is. But we spoke to AngusMcNab a few weeks ago from the CPL,
and these leagues fascinate me of likewhat's the plan, what's the goal?
How do you win? But alsobuild a league and build players.
(01:46):
There's so much going on, andI think, in my mind, Bez
is the best guy to ask thesequestions too, because he has done a
lot of these things already, buthe's thought about all of them. I
mean, he's going to be oneof the ones who creates the future of
soccer and this continent. So Ithink you and me have talked a lot
so far since we've started this showabout a lot of these things. What
(02:08):
does MLS want to be, whatis the future of the sport, what
type of players? Transactions? Allthese things, And I think we kind
of came around at the end too. Bez is the best guy to answer
all these questions for us so thatit's not just us wondering constantly. I
think the puzzle that is Tan gametc. Is hard for anyone to work
out, but Bez is one ofthose guys and just going back DG through
(02:31):
some of the successful teams he's builtand the rosters he's built. It's the
way he's acquired these players that screamsMLS and knowing the league. And not
to say that someone who doesn't haveexperienced league couldn't pull these off, but
I think has definitely helped him.And a lot of similarities as well between
that twenty twenty crew side and theteam that won for Toronto in twenty seventeen.
Yeah, absolutely, I think wewere talking about Marquis Delcado as an
(02:54):
acquisition before we jumped out of likethey got that guy in the chief USA
Dispersal Draft who ended up starting anMLS Cup in a CCL final for his
team. Now you look at Columbus, where in Toronto was mainly overseas acquisitions
and signings, and now in Columbusit's been a lot of trades homegrown players
(03:15):
on top of Zellion, So he'skind of pushed every lever in MLS history
and he's done it pretty well andeven moves where it's like I'm pretty sure
he traded for Evan Bush before MLSCup even happened. So he's constantly working
and moving and doing these things.But it's the reason his teams remain competitive
year after year. We get intosome future stuff regarding MLS in the league
(03:36):
in general, but we also touchon the pass and I know a section
of our fan base is supporters ofToronto FC and what happened in twenty fourteen,
the change of this franchise, thecourse change of bringing Greg Vanny on
and what happened after that. Wetouch on that, David. I think
you're talking about alternate histories that arewhere things could have gone a different path,
(03:57):
the butterfly effect of those series ofevents twenty fourteen. What a different
timeline we could have seen. Yeah, And I've been thinking a lot about
it too, because full discloses everyone. We're recording this a week or so
early. LAFC just lost to Tgressin the CCL final, and I've been
talking to a friend who me andhim been doing this for fifteen years of
watching CCL and being heartbroken, andyou'd started talking about the finals and twenty
(04:20):
twenty eighteen, sorry comes to mind, and then the error of Toronto FC,
and now what can COLUMBUSOO going forward? And Bob Bradley and Michael Bradley,
And there's so much going on rightnow that I've been thinking about with
how close MLS is, how farit is, where it even is that
I'm talking about getting too and allthose things. And I think we mentioned
(04:45):
it a few weeks ago on theshow, but I think Garth Logerway taking
over in Seattle and Timbezbachenko taking overin Toronto, and I would put Ali
Curtis as well taking over in NewYork kind of to me is another era
of MLS in the Point os Um. And so it's pretty cool to think
about the way these guys have changedthis league. You choose, You chose
(05:05):
to bring this up, so Iwill pick up this gab. Do you
think Marky should have scored on thatchance in the twenty eighteen final an extra
time? And that was my friend'sfirst response yesterday when I was like,
it happens this way every time.That was but you know what, whatever,
we don't need to dig back intoit. But didn't Michael start in
(05:25):
center back that game? And Vasquezwas healthy for forty five minutes and Josie
was hurt. That's a rough run, man. A lot of things happened.
I can still picture Presaro's free kickjust floating in over Bono. I
was like right behind it when itgot hit at BMO and was like,
there's no chance that goes in andstill haunts me. I'm sure it haunts
you worse. Good times. Okay, Quickly moving on from that street talking
(05:49):
to Bezu David, I think aswe capped this year and go on to
twenty twenty, where a molest goesfrom here is one of the things that
we talked between ourselves the most.And I listen, the pandemic isn't over,
and the league has to plan aroundthat and how they get these games
off and what what the schedule reallylooks like going forward. So there's plenty
(06:09):
to discuss with Tim Besbachenko of theCrew. Enjoy our discussion with him after
the break. Welcome back to afootball podcast. Joining us on the line,
Columbus Crew president and recently crowned MLSCup Champion. It's Tim Bespachenko.
(06:30):
What's ups, nothing, guys?How are you guys doing? We're doing
well. I think it's serendipitous you'rechatting with us on air Canada headphones.
I believe that's right. Uh,you know it's it's kind of a symbolic
of how this year has been,you know. It's it's, uh,
there's not a lot of people inthe office today, and so trying to
find headphones so that Gas can hearhimself speak, can I hear himself speaks?
(06:56):
So it's it's a gift for Gas. But I didn't have my you
know, my Bluetooth around here.So I looked in the back of my
drawer and I found this nice setof Bluetooth Airline headphones. So, uh,
it's it's sort of how twenty twentyworks, right, You may do
with what you got. It's alsoclassic Air Canada, always reliable, never
let you down. Oh that's right, great airline. Nothing but great things
(07:16):
to say about air kenuh fs.We've had a few days a week or
so to to kind of regroup afteryour club's triumph against Seattle and MLS Cup.
I was wondering the final few minutesof that game, what were what
was going through your head as yousaw this club win they cut for the
second time in its history. Therewere so many emotions, to be honest.
(07:39):
Um, we sit in in ain a suite that has a mix
of technical people and commercial folks,and um, there's so many emotions because
there's so many layers to this,this this win and this championship for this
city and this ownership. So um, during the game, you're trying not
to think about what, uh whatthe result will be until it happens,
(08:01):
because we've all you know, beenpart of teams and games that it takes
a quick turn. So it's notuntil that final whistle, even though we
were winning, that you really letit sink in and and and so my
emotions were were deep, um,you know, first and foremost for the
city and the fans, including myfamily who who who even when I was
with a different club up in Toronto, they stayed true to their their uh
(08:26):
they're black and gold. So um, you know, I think, I
think just just tremendous satisfaction and enjoyand humility of the fact that we were
able to come back here and andand build something that the city could be
proud of a second um our ownership, you know, thinking about their their
you know, in ways trials andtribulations with with with sports so far with
(08:50):
the Cleveland Browns who are now aredoing very well, by the way,
but but the ability to give themand the hass sums and then obviously doctor
Pete Edwards, um, you know, not only the first playoffs, but
but but their first championship I thinkwas extremely meaningful to everybody involved. And
then the last layer is is sortof this idea that we're moving into a
(09:11):
new era and what it means forour ability to um close what was Mottfrey
Stadium which has now been removed.As I look out my window, it's
it's now we're calling it back tocru Stadium. UM, but what was
what it is a historic venue forthis building that I've I've had so many
experiences dating back to my high schooldays, and so for me, it's
(09:35):
there were so many sort of offfield issues that were sort of coming together.
Uh. And then and then youtalk about the work that that Caleb
and the players and pat onstat andIs Satall and Neal McGinnis, all of
our soccer operations put in just tomake sure that we could be playing the
game, let alone putting out ourbest starting eleven because we weren't even sure,
(09:58):
you know, leading up to theNew England game and leading up to
to to MLS Cup who would beavailable for our team. So I can't
tell you how nerve wracking that is. Uh, that's probably the hardest thing
I've ever had to experience in myprofessional career, is going day to day
waiting for the results to come in, having the calls, uh, not
(10:18):
knowing if on the other end ofthe line, you know, Christenberg or
a head athletic trainer is the personthat's sharing the information with me, but
not knowing if if if if you'regoing to have who you're going to have
the next day, or who Caleb'sgoing to have it at his disposable for
the game. So I could goon and on, but the emotions were
plenty, but it was it wasyou know, at the end of the
(10:39):
day, it was tremendous joy andsatisfaction and relief. I'm curious, obviously
you've won MLS Cup before, butin different times. What was a twenty
twenty MLS Cup win and celebration,Like, I mean, you mentioned the
pregame of you don't know who's available. Now you're not really allowed to be
in places and see people. Youcan't get to the parade. What what
(11:01):
has it been like since that victory? This time maybe compares the last.
Yeah, it's been a little bitdifferent because last time in Toronto and after
twenty sixteen where we played so well, they didn't have a shot on goal,
and yet we failed to win becausewe lost in penalty kicks. And
so all of twenty seventeen was thisthis idea that we need to make H
(11:24):
make good for what happened the yearbefore H. And then it turned into
a historic season with a trouble,so it became this the capstone of something
that was was was a historic seasonand there was a lot of pressure on
the guys and I think you feltit, and so there was tremendous relief
and then it quickly rolled into uh, well, let's let's win Champions League
(11:46):
as well. So I think inToronto there's this idea of let's keep it
going and um, whereas this oneis certainly that, I mean, we
want to keep it going, butin a year of COVID, I think
it means so much something different tothe people and the city, given what
everybody has gone through. So uh, the emotions on the night were a
little bit different. And then sincethen, the buzz in the city is
(12:09):
still here. Um, I thinkeveryone is talking about how they can't wait
from the new stadium to open,and uh and and and they're just talking
about the story right that that thatyou know, three years ago, we
weren't sure that the team was goingto be here. The owner wanted to
take the team and leave. UM. And and now we are sitting here
champions MLS Cup, Champions, AndI think it everywhere I go. UM.
(12:33):
You know, I'm not going toto many public places, but but
certainly in my neighborhood and and andand all all the zoom calls and then
all the notes. The outpouring ofof joy and happiness for for for the
club from all of our new parta lot of new partners and old partners
alike are is tremendous. And it'sso it's uh, it's been. It's
everywhere still on high um even youknow where it's draft season here in MLS,
(12:56):
and as we get on all thesecalls to do drafts, uh,
thinking about roster building for next year. It's it's just there's a sense of
pride that you have and what youwere able to accomplish accomplish a last season,
and and what was great about itwas the way that you know,
the way that we I felt wedid it. The guys overcame a number
of challenges COVID throughout the entire season, but they played so well throughout the
(13:18):
playoffs. We were in first placeI think over half of the entire season
in the standings, over almost theentire I think a half of the season.
Of the weeks, we were infirst place. And so it wasn't
a surprise to us that we werein the finals. I think other people
like other storylines. But we hityou know, an injury, a spell
with injuries that that hurt us.And but but we knew once if we
(13:39):
could be able to get some momentumand get a couple of wins before the
playoffs, that we were going tobe a team that was going to be
hard to beat in the playoffs.And we were just so excited to have
that opportunity and finish it off againstyou know, a team that has been
so good over the last you know, three or four years in Seattle.
Well, when it was confirmed thatDarlington, AGB and Santos would be out,
as when was the decision made thatAidan Morris would be the guy.
(14:01):
Was this the sort of thing whereit's like, all right, we know
who we're going to pivot to you, he's ready for this amongst the club.
Yeah, So Pedro was early inthe week because we played the game
on Saturday, I believe against NewEngland. He's a Saturday. And then
we found out we do testing thatnight right after the game, and maybe
that was a Sunday, and thenso we found out on a sort of
Sunday night Monday on Pedro. Imean, Darlington was was, you know,
(14:26):
Thursday morning when we officially knew duringtraining and so we Caleb ass to
be told regardless of the outcome ofthe confirmation of the positive during you know,
even if it's during training, andso he had he already he already
had Aiden in sort of the walkthrough, the tactical walkthrough set up. So
(14:48):
I would say it was it wasimmediate. I think right when we had
a sense that there was a positive. I think you looked down and um
and I think in terms of whatwe needed out of the game and what
we wanted to do versus Seattle,it's going to look a little bit different
than Darlington. But but Aiden hasa tenacity and an intensity that probably one
(15:11):
of the one of the highest inthe team in terms of his ability to
attack the ball and and and wintackles, and people don't give him enough
credit of what he can do onthe ball. You know, he's he's
an eight that that can play andsort of that double pivot is sort of
the six to eight. Uh,And he looks to play the ball forward.
So in some ways he's a littlemore vertical than than Darlington, who's
going to wiggle around players and keeppossession. Aiden can do that or Archer
(15:35):
sort of assume that position from fromDarlington. Then Adio plays more the direct
vertical ball. So I think,you know, I think to answer your
question, it was pretty immediate.There wasn't a whole lot of back and
forth. Now, now Klin mighttell you in his mind he was thinking
about it for twenty four hours,but I think we all knew that that
what was probably going to happen.I want to ask, and we're going
(15:56):
to talk about academies a little bitmore coming up, But I remember being
in bemo field when Jonathan Osorio startedin the final and it was like,
Wow, this guy's an academy guywho played at this level. But you
know, that was a much differentage. Did you ever think you'd see
something like this, where and anacademy player as a teenager would be able
to step into MLS Cup and notjust even be at that level, right,
(16:18):
but highly performed, be one ofthe better players on the field.
Like did you think this day wassomething you'd ever see or see this quickly?
Um? Probably not this quickly.But I don't think we don't think
about that too much. We don'tthink about kind of I mean, that's
that's I think that's fun to talkabout sort of on on shows like this.
But you know, we're we're tryingto build a winner. It's important,
(16:41):
no, I think in Toronto,I remember we had we had a
goal of, you know, overhalf the roster to be homegrown by twenty
twenty two. Um. And andI think the first step is to is
that where building your roster where thebackbone is your academy and we're trying to
do that here as well. Um. The next step is to have a
(17:02):
certain number of players actually performing foryour team and winning championships. And I
think Asorio is a good example ofthat. I think there are other players
in Toronto's roster that that you're actuallywinning trophies. They're on the field when
you are playing in championship games,and I think that's the next step.
And I think we were able toshowcase what that meant to what that means
(17:25):
to have a player like Aiden who'snineteen years old. But we see it
around the world, UM, andso I think it's really just us sort
of catching up to the rest ofthe world in terms of our our our
academy blossoming into into these these thesethese um these feeder systems to the first
team and now that we're going tobe part of players need to show that
(17:45):
they can win because then they wouldmaybe be available to be sold or um
they actually help you save money onyour salary cap or that's a higher return
on your investment to the community becausethe community that sees themselves in the players
that are on the field, souh, you know, the returns are
three or four or fold compared tomaybe another type of player. And I
(18:07):
think that's what's so exciting is Ithink this is the evolution of the league,
UM in terms of of of ofof being able to showcase our homegrown
talent on the fields in important matchesthat help you win games. And he
did that. Aiden did that,and so happy for him. And then
there's other players that did that throughoutthe year. I think, um,
you know Bubakar Kata and Sebastian BurhalterUm. And then let's talk about the
(18:30):
other homegrown players on a roster.Jossy's artis and the first DP homegrown player
who is a homegrown player, youknow, Derek Etienne is a homegrown player,
and and and the Red Bulls andGalaxy should be proud of that because
they were able to get you know, an asset in return and then that
player goes on and has success inhis career. And so I think MS
should be proud of of of thefinal uh and the players that are out
(18:52):
there because it did reflect it doesreflect the investment in our, in our
in our full player pathway, asevidence by players who won the field.
I think in regular times, theoff season sneaks up pretty quickly on on
clubs, cup ends, and it'sit's onto roster deliberations. But I think
the season that takes on some moresignificance as we are basically right into it.
(19:15):
But as I was wondering building achampionship team within the MLS mechanisms and
the roster structures with performance incentives andincreasing salaries. Keeping a good MLS roster
together from year to year. It'snot an easy task. And we already
have had the re entry draft starting. But you've done this a couple of
(19:37):
times now. I guess overall,as you re enter planning for the next
season, how hectic is this periodand have this ability to keep this team
in place changed over the years.This is a different process now in twenty
twenty than it was maybe in twentyseventeen. Well, first and foremost,
it's it's it's brutal having to haveconversations and these changes, like the day
literally the day after you win onthe last Cup or lose it in the
(19:59):
case of what happened in sixteen,so you are literally celebrating on a Saturday
night and then on Sunday because playersand families were not allowed on the field,
we had a family and friends gatheringon the pitch on Sunday, tiered
and separated based you know, dueto covid um. And then right after
(20:19):
that celebration, I think that wasfrom twelve to two, you know,
we had player meetings from two tothree, and you're talking about talking about
how quickly I have to shift frombeing you know, celebrating to having some
difficult conversation. It's brutal, andit's not frank, it's not fair,
and I think we have to changeit, and I think everybody would be
open to changing it. I knowI've talked it to Garth about it because
(20:41):
we've had to do us a numberof times. And and and luckily we
weren't a part of the expansion draftthis year, because that is actually probably
the one of the harder conversations.The players who are coming out of contract
or you're not exercising their options,you've you've spoken to their agent already.
The expansion draft is really the hardone. And when you're telling a player
that he's not protected even though maybethey started in MLS Cup the night before.
(21:03):
So we were able to avoid thatdue to Luis Argudo getting picked up
last year by Miami, so wedidn't have to worry about having that conversation
with players. Um. But butto answer your question about roster building,
it's it's not hard to keep theteam together. It's actually impossible. You
literally, in a salary cap world, cannot keep your roster together like you
(21:23):
can another if you really wanted to, you could in other and other leagues
and other places around the world.So um, so you have to make
tough, you know, hard decisions. You have to you have to prepare
for it. You have to accumulateassets to help buy down certain players.
You have to plan your dp UHsignings and your TAM signings well ahead.
Um. And you know that youhave to have contingency scenarios so that if
(21:47):
you win, you know, it'sgoing to look like this because of the
bonuses. If you lose, it'sgoing to look like this. Uh.
And so there's a number of there'sa number of of of of of models
and that you have to run andto plan for for different different scenarios.
But it's it's it's impossible in ourleague, you could do it. You
can hang on for a couple ofyears and and sort of uh you know,
(22:10):
um sort of you know what Iwant to say, sort of put
glue and and and and tape andand try to hang on for as long
as you can. But eventually thesalary cap uh sort of monster comes and
you're going to have to make abig decision on a player. And that
happens sometimes naturally with age. UM. Maybe a positional change, maybe a
(22:33):
coach wants to change things tactically.But but right now we're still in the
building up and that's it's so soexcited. Why I'm so excited about this
roster is that we're having success rightnow, but we feel like we haven't
hit our peak. And going intothe new stadium, we had always planned
on on adding more more players,more special players, maybe another designated player
(22:55):
um, but but now we don'tfeel like we don't have to. We
don't have to do it right duringa period where it's hard to scout in
person and live, so you haveto factor that in. And and there's
so excitement around this team, andthis team's playing well enough that you don't
necessarily have to sign another zelaryon justyet. Not that you could find another
(23:15):
player at that level, but butyou know what I mean. You know
you don't find the Javinkas and theZealands every day? Are those? Are?
Those? Are? You know?Every few years? But you did
mention another DP. You do havetwo dps on your team that are on
the lower end and could be boughtdown and create that spot. I guess
that leads into a bigger question ofjust for Columbus as a market, as
a franchise, as a club,and then maybe MLS in general. Do
(23:37):
you have to make another big signingto keep up? Is there a spot
that you think you need that playerat or is that a projection on where
the league's going? Where's that thoughtprocess? Yes, so I answer your
question, No, I don't thinkwe have to do it, And I
think that's where are What we're tryingto build here is going to be a
little bit different than my former club, where I think the expectations from ownership
(24:00):
in the city and um, isthat that you're going to be, you
know, a super club, signingsome of the highest paid players around,
you know, in the league,and and that's great and I love being
a part of that. And Ithink the model of what we're trying to
do here is a little bit different, which is how can you build a
roster in the outside of the topquarter in spending but still build a championship
(24:22):
team and a team that can contendeach year. And I think that's the
challenge. I don't think you've reallyseen it since maybe you know, Kansas
City in twenty thirteen. Um,who's really sort of build a roster around
players that you know not are notyou know, you don't have three players
in the top sort of twenty tothirty spend in the league. I think
it's more of a balanced roster.And and that's okay, And I think
(24:44):
I think you talk people talk aboutyou guys talk about it all the time
in terms of different identities. Butwe want to be a profitable club.
That's the other hat I wear ona day to day basis is as we're
not going to spend, you know, with the highest top sort of five
or six in the league. We'rejust not because frankly, our revenues don't
justify it. And we're already buildingover three hundred million dollars stadium, a
(25:04):
thirty five million dollars training facility.And so we want to be balanced,
not just a balance roster, buta balance club, and we want to
build to a profitability. And Ithink that's that's that's a good thing for
our league, is how do weget to a place where we're spending within
our means, but we're also buildingan exciting attacking roster that's fun to watch
and we're winning and and I thinkor I know that that's that's that's our
(25:29):
vision for the club, and it'sgoing to be different from from every club,
from other clubs because they want tomaybe do something different. In Philadelphia
they're doing something different. In Torontothey're doing something different. As you had
a big opportunity to flex there whenyou said not everyone can find is Laon
or a Javinko or a Vasquez.You have several times there. Yeah,
we we have. Thank you.I appreciate that. You know, first
(25:49):
of all, uh, it's notme, you know, you know,
it's a whole team. So whetheror not it's Jack, Jack Dodd and
Cory Ray up up up in Toronto, and then Greg was heavily involved up
there, and then down here,it's I mean, you know the work
that Neil McGinnis does, and IssaTall and a certainly pad Onstad and then
(26:10):
Caleb was heavily involved. It's notlike in other sports where you just signed
the player and you say here yougo. Uh, and soccer it is
eleven players that have to work togetheralmost as one. And as you guys
all know that, it's it's howthe pieces fit together because they take up
certain spaces on the field. Sohow does Zelereon work because he likes to
drift left, and how does hework with Darlington and Pedro and how are
(26:33):
those going to work together. Soit's going to take uh, you know,
Caleb's tactical mind and then uh sortof you know Pat's pragmatism and uh
and then our entire scouting network Neilwho's there first and seves players, and
then our our ground scouts in variouscountries. So um, I think that's
what changed when I came here waswas, you know, we've replicated some
(26:55):
of the processes that we did upin Toronto, and I think it bear
fruit in zelereon um um because becauseI think we we we followed the process
and we created a competitive process sothat at the end you you're coming together
with three or four names that youwould be satisfied with. But Zeleron just
just just fit the best within thatpuzzle. Time for a quick break for
(27:17):
our sponsors. After the break,more with Bez in terms of adding now
to this puzzle, the crew ofadded Broudley right Phillips to the squad and
touching on that puzzle, Bez,how does how does BWP fit into this
squad? Um? He fits becausefirst and foremost, he is by all
(27:41):
accounts a great human being and agreat teammate. And you know, when
you when you go through championship winningseasons, you want to be careful about
who you bring onto your team andthe dynamic that that that that it creates
in the locker room, on thetraining pitch every day, because it's not
just about the talent on paper,it's about how these players interact. And
(28:03):
and every time I've interacted with BradleyUm as well as all of his interviews,
he's always giving credit to his teammates. He's always speaking on the about
the collective Um. The way heplays the game, he defends for the
team. Uh, just the amountof sheer work that he did for the
Red Pulse over a number of yearsis remarkable. UM. So we're just
(28:23):
so excited about the person we're bringinginto the club, and I think that
speaks to what we're trying to buildhere. Um. This isn't about the
star players and about themselves or theor the coaching staff or the front office.
This is we're just trying to We'retrying to make sure that we're reflective
of the values of the city andand and so he's a humble player and
(28:45):
then you know, I could goon and on about his skill in the
pitch. We all know he's he'she's he's multi UH time supporter, shield
winner, Golden Boot winner, um. So we're excited about what he brings
to the team on the field offthe field, but he will allow us
to present a different look up topthan GIOSC at times. We also know
(29:07):
that we're likely to lose GOC toGold Cup. We have Champions League,
we have US Open Cup, butwe don't know how congested the schedule will
be if COVID comes back in adifferent way and affects this season. So
there's so many variables at play thathaving a player like BWP available for your
coach allows us to play a certainstyle and play it both on the road
(29:32):
and at home. We're gonna havea heavy away schedule first because we're we're
backloading our games, our home gamesbecause we have the opening of the stadium
in July. So there's so manyreasons why it makes sense for us to
sign a player like BWP and andso we're excited about having him, but
but we're also not finished with theroster changes. We're looking to make a
couple other signings. You know betweennow and the beginning of the year.
(29:56):
Now excuse me not being in theyearbeginning of the season. I'm excit just
for Brad to potentially win a youknow, a cup competition. He's been
waiting for a little while. Yeah, yeah, you're right, he hasn't
done that. That's right, that'sright that we would love to give it
to him. And you know howexcited would exciting would it be to go
and make a run and try todo something similar to we did this year,
(30:18):
but in the new stadium for playerslike b WP and then and then
obviously Pedro and Darlington who were notable to participate in the final, I
think they're going to be out lookingto right that wrong next year as well.
I wanted to ask you about oneof the big players that you're coach
wanted in Darlington Nagbe, and notjust him coming in, but made mainly
kind of what's gone on in theleague around his acquisition, which is these
(30:41):
big allocation money trades um. Andyou know, we were thinking back to
your time in Toronto for a longtime, you didn't really make a move
like that, and I don't knowthat the league really saw these moves until
the last two three years and nowyou're talking about a million one point two
one point five million allocation moving andNagby was one of those. Is this
a trend that you saw coming andhow is it maybe different from your point
(31:04):
of view in making this move comparedto bringing a player in from overseas for
a large amount of outlay. Soin Toronto I never had that money.
We didn't have allocation. We hadwe had, we had money obviously at
ownership investment in DPS, but wenever had allocation. And that's because you
know, we sold Daniel Henry,but we are never able to pick up
(31:27):
a big chunk of of allocation.That's the only way you can do it
by by selling a player. Ifif you don't trade a player and pick
up allocation. So it's a directorson my opinion of the influx of cash
from expansion. So as you know, the expansion draft used to be ten
players and then it went they cutit down to five and gave these expansion
(31:47):
teams more money to spend in theopen market and the econ major and me
as talking it thinks about the moneysupply, and you're increasing the money supply
and that's going to cause wages toincrease because there's more money in the system,
and so they're the expansion teams haveto go out and build rosters and
they want cornerstone pieces. And sothat was Atlanta, you know, from
(32:12):
Portland buying Darlington because they had cash. And so I'm not saying that that
they overspent on him, but atthe time that was that was more money
I think than ever had been paidfor a player. But that's a direct
result of the cash in the systemwhat's called allocation, right, And and
so what you're just seeing as aa trend of of of of expansion teams
(32:34):
being forced to go out and buythese players at these at these prices.
And so it's not a reasonable spending. It's not irrational exuberances as they would
call it in the in the inthe economy. It's just, um,
it's actually rational decisions. And sowhen you're looking to build a team like
we were coming in like I wascoming in in nineteen with Caleb, we're
looking at key pieces that would putus in contention for for championships and and
(32:59):
and play it in a style thatwas you know, that was reflective of
Caleb Porter and also myself and Patand Darlington. It was a key piece,
and so it became apparent that thatwe would need to spend. We
knew right away that we were goingto have to sort of collect and save
up to make us spend like wedid for Darlington. As we could talk
(33:20):
to you all day, but weknow you're a busy man, so we
will end on this. It wasthe end of an era in Toronto.
I think a chapter fully closed.I think when when Tim Lightwicky left and
then you departed for Columbus, thatwas a change, and then and then
Greg Vanny departing the club himself thisyear. I wanted to go back kind
of to twenty fourteen or maybe evenbeyond that, when you knew that Greg
(33:44):
was going to be the next headcoach of TFC, because I think by
all accounts there was a resounding successby by choosing him, and as he
goes forward, I think your decisionto make that change will last long in
the memories of TFC fans. SoI was just wondering if you could look
back on that before we go.Yeah. I mean, it's it's funny
because Jamie McMillan and Corey Ray twoemployees to two of my colleagues up in
(34:07):
Toronto have joined us since and andand down here and Crew UH and Crew
Land and Columbus as well as Esatalwho who left Toronto and then went to
FIFA. Actually for a number ofyears worked the World Cup, was on
the pitch with France when they whenthey won. Actually and then Uh joined
us here in Toronto, but inColumbus. But we talk about obviously the
(34:28):
family up and in Toronto that wehad left, and Greg and his staff
and Jim Liston and Dan Collisman,Robin Frasier, Nick teslaf there they were
part of the family and you getyou become really close with them and certainly
even more closer closer when you gothrough hard times like we did in Toronto,
and certainly the coaching change we madein fourteen was one of the most
difficult experiences and things I've ever hadto go through. Um, we were
(34:52):
we were actually part of we're inthe middle of a build up in Toronto
when we made that change. Gregcame on brit greg On as our academy
director and my assistant GM to actuallybuild our academy up there and are and
we started TFC two at the time, and so it was actually not part
of the plan. I know peoplelike to think it was. They've talked
(35:15):
about like it was, but Gregwasn't sure he was ready to be the
head coach at the time. Andhe'll tell you that, um he he.
He loves player development. He lovesbringing kids along and as they become
men and working to the first team. And so that's what what I was
so excited about was was giving Gregthe opportunity to to find himself as a
(35:37):
head coach, but to do itin a way where I knew he would
invest in the players from the academy, he knew them. He traveled with
them too. I think we thatthey went to Qatar and South Africa together.
This is I think this is likeeight io akonols the two thousand class.
You know, Greg literally went ontrips with them because as the academy
(35:58):
director, and so to see himsucceed and change and evolve into a not
just a good head coach, buta great head coaches is Uh. It's
really special for me and I thinkour everyone that has watched Greg uh succeed
over the years, and he's sucha good person and so I'm just so
happy for for for him and hisfamily, you know, for him,
(36:21):
that's just a great story. It'svery similar. I'm returning to in a
way to sort of reminder of sortof coming back to Columbus. This is
my hometown club. And I thinkGreg's meant so much to um To,
to the people in la And Idon't know if that's where he's going,
but it seems like it. Ihaven't spoken to him about it directly,
but you know, if he doesend up there, then what a great
(36:42):
homecoming it would be for him.Um But but it is. You know,
clubs change, club clubs evolve,projects, you know, end,
and and I think Greg's spoken aboutthe project ending up in Toronto, and
I felt in some ways that wasalso part of the decision for me to
leave. I felt like some ofthe building was already done there and they
were moving into a new era.But but you know, leave it to
(37:05):
great people and Bill, Bill Manningand Olie Curtis, who are some of
the closest friends and friends of mine, and great executives who no doubt,
well, we'll figure things out andmake great decisions to keep Toronto at the
top. Up in Toronto, obviously, I'll give shout out to Larry Tannebaum
as well, who's going to dowhatever it takes to win in such a
great ownership that they have up there. Be hope you can take some brief
(37:28):
time at least to celebrate the holidaysat their family and everyone in Columbus and
celebrate this massive achievement by yourself inthe club in twenty twenty. Thanks so
much for joining us. Hey,thanks for having me guys. You guys,
stay safe, happy holidays, andI'll see you in a few weeks,
I'm sure. Yeah, thank you, bass, all right, thanks
having guys. Major thanks to crewpresident Tim Bezbachenko for joining AFP. And
(37:52):
that's it. We did it.Twenty twenty is in the books, David.
There's what we do. We finishon a high. I'm ready to
just eat carbs for the next fourdays. That's kind of my plan.
So that's what referencing towards. Andyeah, I don't know, I guess
we'll be back in a week orso. So it's not really that big
a deal, um, exactly,it's the globe keep spinning. Um.
(38:15):
But he's he's on the show rightnow. He's just on in the background,
working in once and twos, butI wanted to take this time to
thank Nick and for being great,being a great producer and co host of
the show, and anyways, oneof the remind you guys, we're on
Twitter at a football Pod, sojoin us there. We're on Patreon dot
com forward slash a football pod.Join us, get the show at free
(38:37):
chat on the discord, and getmore interviews like the one we just did
with Bess, which I think ispretty cool, and we'll hopefully get to
do more of those. David,anything else you want to say before we
depart, not just happy whatever peopledo to everyone out there. I guess
happy New Year technically, and jumpon Patreon. That's where we're gonna all
(39:00):
our soccer takes out aka trash Liverpoolsomehow and get Nick rowled up even though
the best team in the world.So yeah, jump on over there for
Nick, David and myself. Thankyou so much for listening to AFP.
We'll talk to you next week.
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