December 17, 2025 • 63 mins
WWE having John Cena tap out to Gunther was the right decision:
John Cena taps out to Gunther in retirement match
WWE Faces Nuclear Fan Backlash
Working with ICP and JCW
Burning Question With Vince Russo
This week, we welcome Vince Russo back to the show to discuss the controversial ending to WWE Saturday Night’s Main Event and John Cena’s career. The character who has preached to “Never Give Up” gave up in his final match, leaving wrestling fans outraged at WWE and causing boos and hostile chants toward Triple H Paul Levesque.
We discuss a variety of topics, including John Cena’s tap out to Gunther and how this affects his legacy, WWE’s damage control, if they can recover from this decision and much more.
We’ll also talk to Vince about his role in creative and on-screen with JCW, working with ICP and the vision for the future of Juggalo Championship Wrestling.
We discuss and debate all of this, plus some random wrestling topics and questions for one of the most brilliant and controversial figures in the history of professional wrestling on a fiery episode of the Lazy Booking Podcast!
S/P: Specialized Physical Therapy | specializedphysicaltherapy.com
John Cena taps out to Gunther in retirement match
WWE Faces Nuclear Fan Backlash
Working with ICP and JCW
Burning Question With Vince Russo
This week, we welcome Vince Russo back to the show to discuss the controversial ending to WWE Saturday Night’s Main Event and John Cena’s career. The character who has preached to “Never Give Up” gave up in his final match, leaving wrestling fans outraged at WWE and causing boos and hostile chants toward Triple H Paul Levesque.
We discuss a variety of topics, including John Cena’s tap out to Gunther and how this affects his legacy, WWE’s damage control, if they can recover from this decision and much more.
We’ll also talk to Vince about his role in creative and on-screen with JCW, working with ICP and the vision for the future of Juggalo Championship Wrestling.
We discuss and debate all of this, plus some random wrestling topics and questions for one of the most brilliant and controversial figures in the history of professional wrestling on a fiery episode of the Lazy Booking Podcast!
S/P: Specialized Physical Therapy | specializedphysicaltherapy.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Everybody's got a price for the million dollar man. Oh
who's that kid?
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Nick?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
He looks like Beaker from.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Puppets The One on one Nick. Right, Yeah, yeah, I
got something amazing.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
I did not even I love I love that. If
I get five limit and they're all in the same
room with me, we're going at it at one hundred.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
What's going on? Everybody?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Welcome back Tuesday Night on a two D radio means
lazy booking podcast coming at you live on niche Night.
Happy to welcome back our guests this week. I'm chrome
joined as always by my guy Eric Archer.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
What's up, brother, what's happening? Did anything go on the
last couple of days? I'm not sure? He catch me
up to speed?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Well, we'll catch everybody up to speed, and we are
happy to welcome back the one and only the creative
genius himself, who had quite a week this week, mister
Vince Russo, what's up, brother?
Speaker 1 (01:11):
What is going on? My friends? How you guys doing tonight?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Good good? I hope you got those boot birds ready?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Oh yeah, boot birds are always ready.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Man.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Let me see, let me let me make let me
make sure they are, let me make sure they are
warmed up.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Let's have them cute up. Brother, Listen, we go, here,
we go. I love having them. Oh we heard a
lot of that this week.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Let's show a little love to our sponsor before we
dive into it at Specialized Physical Therapy doctor Paul Videll.
Oh doctor. You can find him at Burlington and Cheriol,
New Jersey, and find him on the web Specialized Physical
Therapy dot Com. No appointment necessary, So any aches, pains,
long lasting issues, anything, and you please contact him and
his award winning team to take a look at you
(02:04):
and get your set to go in the right direction
to get yourself feeling back at your peak performance. What
a week. I gotta tell you, Vince, since last week
when we had you, brother, I mean fire last week,
and we dropped some clips throughout the week of things
that you said, and I got to tell you, especially
(02:25):
the night after Saturday Night's main event, a lot of
the stuff that you put out with Trip, I mean
it went flying when you talk to it. And I
got to tell you before we dive in here one
of the things that really stuck in my head and
like me and Eric were texting about it. Of course,
the intro, the cold open for Saturday night's main event
(02:46):
has whose voice doing the intro? Yeah, And immediately I
texted me, I said, I can't get it out of
my head what Vince said, because he's one hundred percent
and I think about it. But dude, you were spot
on with it. You were on fire last week. We're excited.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, it's listen, this is this. There's a pattern here,
there's a pattern here, and guys, I have to man,
I wanna, I want, I wanna, I wanna. I want
to share something with you. Man, I gotta go. I
gotta go to my mail real quick with you, because
I guarantee you you have not seen this and and
(03:23):
you guys will pop huge. Yeah, let me let me
just stall for a little bit of time before I
I'm trying to get to my mail. I don't know
why you're doing that. Let me.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I'll say hello to everybody.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Make sure we're live on Facebook, YouTube, and x. Make
sure you guys like, subscribe, follow, and please most importantly,
we got Vince here. We're gonna pull your comments up
on the show. Join the conversation.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Questions. We're gonna talk about.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
The John Cena controversial ending to the retirement Saturday Night's
main event maybe whereas his legacy at and we're also
gonna talk about.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
J c W.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
We just had another fantastic week. We're gonna dive into
all Evince's uh projects right now and everything he's working
with with them. What's what's the what's the future look like?
We want to talk about that as well as uh,
maybe a few firing points in a segment we call
hot tag where we just kind of throw out some
random stuff and have a conversation about it.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Yeah, and we want to join the conversation. We want
to thank you all for last week, you know, all
the interaction engagement. It's awesome. Bring it on again this week.
We love it and uh ready to go, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Hold on, all right, guys, you got to let me
get the volume on this. I think you guys got
to pull it up, bro. Play this, play this, play
this clip with the with the audio sure now hold wait,
wait a minute, Hold on for a second. Wait a minute,
Wait a minute. I gotta kill I gotta kill audio
(04:57):
on another channel. Hold on for a second. He's got
you got okay, I got that dead. Okay, hold on,
let me go here let me come back to you, guys.
Hold on, hold on, I hate when I got okay,
you should you, guys. I gotta play this clip right,
(05:19):
all right, listen, listen to this clip, guys, watch this
freaking clip before we say goodbye.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
I hear since it is the holiday season, you brought
a gift over here to first Yes, very true.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I got sent here with a gift.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
There's a beautiful piece of w TW memorbilia. So Nick
Can and all your friends at wy.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Okay, Bro, are you fing kidding me? Boonther is on
steven A Smith to promote Saturday night's main event. It's
seen as last match, and freaking Triple H shoehorns himself
into that. You mean to tell me, Bro, you're not
(06:14):
gonna give steven A. Smith a piece of memorabilia from
John Cena. He's a pair of shorts that Scena. You
know what I'm saying, Bro, This guy is I I
did a show today and I Bro, listen, I swear
to you at this point with Triple H. When it
(06:35):
comes to ego, Bro, he has far and away, wait,
surpassed everybody. I'm talking Hogan, I'm talking Flair. He is
eons above everybody when it comes to this guy's ego. Bro,
I swear to god, it's it's to the point that
it's it's almost like a Christopher Guest movie. I mean,
(06:58):
every time this freaking guy turns around. Bro, you guys
saw the end of Sina Where is he? He's up
on the apron point into Oh my god, Bro, can
you imagine if Vince Russo We're doing all this stuff
opening up the trading cards with Sam Roberts, and my
(07:18):
voice over is all like, can you imagine if it
were me doing this stuff?
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Man?
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Bro, this guy I'm I'm I'm really at the point
where it's like, dude, you got issues, like you You've
really got issues to have to constantly be putting such
a spotlight on yourself. Bro, You've got You've got deep,
deep issues. Bro.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
I almost wonder if it comes from the fact that
he didn't get the retirement that he that that everybody
else is getting right because of the medical issue. This
is not an excuse by any means, because You're right,
there's a lot of self serving that's been going on.
And I do see it a lot more too after
our conversation last week, and I did feel like it
(08:04):
was very like self deprecat or self self serving to
come out and do the whole pomp and circumstance. And
the same thing can be said after WrestleMania forty right
comes out with Cody when he has his moment in
the ring.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
What about Boston? What about Boston when he's standing in
the ring the entire time with John Cena. I mean, bro,
it's it's it's it's situation. If the situation, if the situation.
He does the voice over for the WrestleMania spot for
the guys, and then he does it for the girls
(08:39):
as well, like why why why didn't Trish Stratus, you know,
do the voiceover for that spot that should have been
a female voice doing that voice over. It's bro, Honestly,
the guys got deep, deep rooted issues at this point.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
Do you think it's I know we talked about you
know what it's stemming from. But do you think and
and I heard you talk about it on one of
the shows this week, do you think it would be
beneficial for them to lean into this heal character Like
the first guy that walked out when Senior retired, it
was him and Stephanie hand in hand. Do you and
(09:16):
he got the booze on the post show and he's, Oh,
it should have been louder. Do you think it would
be beneficial for them to capitalize on this or do
you think it's kind of been used already?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
And no, no, I think that's the only thing that
could save it. And I think that's the only thing
that can save him. I really really do, because I
got to tell you, man, when you've gotten to the
point now where okay, Bro, this isn't Vince Russo just
saying it now, your own fans are saying, ufed up. Bro,
(09:48):
that's the beginning of the end. That's the beginning of
the end when your own fans are turning on you.
So if I were him, Bro, I would do that
in an absolute heartbeat. I would I would do that
in a heartbeat. And guys, guess what now The mystery
is over, Bro, because there was all that talk about
(10:09):
why seen his final match wasn't in Boston, and the
story was because the WWE wanted the building to pay
extra money for it, and the building said, no, Bro,
that's bullshit. They knew what this finish. He knew what
this finish was gonna be all along. Bro, could you
imagine if this finish would have took place in Boston.
(10:31):
Can you imagine if this finish would have taken place
in seeing his hometown, Bro, they would have rioted. They
literally would have rioted. That was nothing what we saw
on Saturday night. If that was in Boston and that
was the finish, forget about it, Bro, That's why the
match wasn't in Boston.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Oh, it would have been absolutely insane, and they did.
They took advantage of it as if it was like
a bidding process, Like it's like we're talking about bidding
for WrestleMania in the super Bowl, which hard of me says,
I can't. I can't blame him for that because it's
it's it's a huge thing that that people obviously wanted
their city to partake in. I do think it's a
(11:13):
huge missed opportunity. But again, if that finish happens in Boston,
like we talk about one night's standing against Rob van
Dam and how that was kind of an iconic scenic moment,
right and one of the more visceral crowd reactions of
all time. I mean, they legitimately might have rioted. This
might have been horsemen inside the cage breaking Dusty's leg
(11:36):
level of rioting.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yeah, no, absolutely, Bro, And that's why this had never
happened before. Where Okay, Bro, this is a special night
and we want X amount of dollars extra from the arena.
This is the first time that ever happened. And that's why.
That is exactly why, Bro, they had to come up
(11:59):
with some kind of reason, in some kind of situation
for that last match not to be in Boston because
they knew what they were going to do. That would
oh my god, Bro, Triple H would have had a
crawl under the ring if that was in Boston.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Do you think that's Nick con or do you think
that's further up from him? Or do you think it's
just all of them conglomorate like we're just seeing the
dollar signs. We want to go where someone's gonna pay
for it.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Nah? Well, Bro, in this case, Bro, there is no way,
there is no way anybody can look at seen as
farewell tor and and ask the question, Okay, who was
in charge of creative? Who was behind that Triple H? Fine,
(12:50):
there's no way anybody can look at that and say
this guy should not be fired. Bro. When you look
at the last of John Cena, Bro, what was the
John Cena highlight? He got killed by brock Lessner. He
lost his last two matches on the way out. Even
(13:11):
when he won the title, it was because of Travis Scott.
Then they did that horrible heel turn. What was Seena's
moment in this last year beating aj Styles? I think
he beat jay Us So those were the moments. And
then and then, Bro, Triple H is gonna sit there
(13:32):
and talk about a time honored tradition. Bro, what time
honored tradition is you put the guy over on the
way out, not two guys over. He lost his last
two match. That's it, Bro, Nobody's ever done that. Nobody's
ever done that. What they've done in the past is
they've built somebody built, somebody built somebody, and then the
(13:54):
guy on his way out does the favor. That's the
way it's done. First of all, they never built good
going through, never built I mean, what a freaking tournament.
And then you beat Sina his last two matches, Bro,
somebody needs to be fired over that. Somebody's gonna sit
there and tell me Vince McMahon would have booked Scena
(14:15):
this way?
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Yeah, I think so, let's get into the topic because
we're in it right you kind of already touched on it.
Let's jump in or agree to disagree for the night,
and everybody wants to jump in, please do ww having
John Cena tap out to Gunther was the right decision?
Agree or disagreeing? Wherever you guys are at, please drop
the comments in comments again is last week? Are already
(14:39):
starting to fly in. But I think you've been touching
on it, Vince. But but your thoughts on that, I'm
sure you're gonna disagree with.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
This, Bro. The guy built a twenty five year career
of never give up. When you talk John Cena, one
of the first things you think about off the bat
are all the make a Wish kids. Bro. That's where
never gives Up come from is dealing with kids that
(15:11):
have terminal illnesses and they're going to die. And my god, Bro,
he's met with thousands of kids over his career spreading
that message never give up, and in his very last match,
he gives up. So you're telling those kids that, hey,
you know what, guys like, Let's be honest, eventually you're
(15:33):
going to give up in life. You're eventually going to
give up. Bro. That was so clearly the wrong finish
without a shadow of a doubt. And I don't care
what anybody says, I one million percent hold Triple H
(15:55):
responsible for that, because let me tell you this, Bro,
everybody knows like see has got a reputation of being
a nice guy and what puts everybody over and this,
that and the other thing great. So I'm gonna give
them the benefit of the doubt. If Sena pitches that,
if he's the one pitching that, Bro, somebody's gotta be
(16:16):
there saying, John, we appreciate that it ain't happening, okay, Bro.
And I'll be honest with you, I would believe that
Sena pitched that thinking somebody else was gonna say that,
thinking somebody else was gonna say, John, we appreciate that.
(16:36):
We know what you're trying to do, but we can't
do that. And nobody said anything, Bro, And that was
one billion percent the wrong finish, And it was a
finish for for for Triple H to make sure the
John Cena legacy is not gonna be greater than his legacy.
(17:01):
And Bro, that that's what this entire thing was about,
because if it wasn't about spite and jealousy. Then literally,
Triple H is a moron and and he's not qualified
for the job. It's that simple. So, Bro, it's one
of two things. You either did this whole thing on
(17:21):
purpose or Bro, you are not qualified for this job whatsoever.
And I want to believe it's not the latter. I
don't think Triple H is stupid. I think Triple H
knows exactly what he's doing, and he knew exactly what
he was doing.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
My initial reaction, So I don't think it was necessarily
the wrong decision to lose. I saw the story, I
would make the argument. Now again, I'm gonna there's gonna
be a different ending to this, but I would make
the argument.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Right.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
We talked all week last week about story and consistency
and story. And then when I sit and I hear
John Cena say I'm going to ruin wrestling, and all
week he talks on Pat McAfee about how you know Matt,
Pat McAfee and ESPN, all these different networks about how
you know the character is coming to an end, but
(18:22):
the man still moves on. So when I look at
the story, this might have been the most consistent story
in the beginning. He says, I'm going to go till
the end of this he ends up winning this title.
He's going to do what he has to do. He's
gonna be desphere, He's gonna go around. He wins the title,
he's going to ruin wrestling. And I do feel like
(18:43):
when you look at the commentary, wrestling defeated or wrestling
killed sports entertainment, right, Uh, I felt like that all.
I felt like he was telling us it was going
to be Gunther, and Gunther was going to go over
all along. If you really start to look, a lot
of the context closed through now the road there was
all over the place. I mean, this is GPS taking
(19:07):
you up and downhills and all around and trying to
detour all over the place. I think we got there.
And initially when I saw how it ended, it was
it was almost kind of foreshadowing. When I heard him
talk on McAfee and I heard him talk on Chris
flad Lead about the you know the character is ending,
but the man's going to go on. It was like
(19:27):
the light switch is on now that this character is done.
And that's why he had kind of the face nothing
left in the character because he talked about how his
body can't handle it like it used to.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
So I just kind of.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Put all those pieces together and I thought, oh, I
thought it actually.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Told a really beautiful story.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
But again, after I kind of removed myself and everything
that you talked about, it's what does the character mean,
and it's the legacy of the character. And I have
to agree that the tap out was a terrible, terrible decision.
The pass out could have had. You don't think Sena
should have won the match. I think that what you're
seeing with Guntherro is what you could have got. Like
(20:05):
his promo last night on Raw was short and sweet,
and then the whole kind of carrying himself with an
arrogance in the back around everybody and making the comments
and moxy. You could have did that with the pass
out to.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Bro, you could have You could have done that with
Goonther pinning him. BRO. Think about think about this. Just
think about the WWE is all about moments. They were
all about moments. BRO. Think about this. You're going into
that match, Bro, you invite two hundred Make a Wish
kids to sit ringside. Okay, they're there for the entire match. Bro,
(20:43):
You're getting shots of them throughout the entire match. Bro,
Goonther beats Sena. Makes sense. Bro, He's younger, he's quicker,
he's stronger. No, nobody would have a hard time believing that. Okay,
he beats them, Bro, he outlast them. Scene is out
of gas. Okay, Goontha gets the victory. You know, realizes
(21:08):
the moment like any wrestler would have, that this is
John Cena's last match. All Gounth has gotta do is
reach out, help him up, look him in the eye,
shake his hand, and walk out of the ring. Now
scene is up. Uh, you know he didn't tap, he
(21:31):
didn't pass out. He got beat Bro. Now you let
those kids in the ring, and you let those kids
share that last moment with John Cena. That was John
Cena's career. The kids, the make a wish, don't ever
give up. That's the scene, Bro. There would not have
(21:53):
been a dry eye in the freaking house. It would
not have hurt Gotha. All Gluther could have came back
the next night when Seene is gone. I told you
what I was gonna do. I retired. He could have
cut the same exact promo and been in the same
exact place. This was one thousand percent the obsolute, absolute
(22:20):
opposite of what the finish should have been, and freaking
Triple H knows it, and shame on him. And I
got one thing to say to Triple H. Bro, And
I'm telling you, guys, Karma is a bitch.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Man.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Karma is a bitch and all this stuff man is
gonna come around and bite you in the ass. And
the fact that you're getting booed out of the building, Bro,
Vince Russo isn't the only one that's onto you. You've
actually done this so many times that now you've smartened
up your own audience to see and understand what you've
(22:57):
done here.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Yeah, I agree with both of you and that the
finish just wasn't what should have happened to tap out
just the way it was done. It was just I
think it just just the nonchalantness of it, the unnecessariness
of it.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Right.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
But I think I'm seeing a lot of people kind
of saying they thought that Sina was gonna win this match.
I was not one of those. I thought for sure
he was not winning this match. I think people thought
that because of losing a Survivor series and like having
him lose two matches on the way out, and I
(23:36):
don't I looking back and saying like I didn't think
he needed to win those matches or any of those matches.
It just it just doesn't sit right with me that
he I don't and I don't know if I find
it hard to believe that he would even sign off
on losing unless he was just like, you know what, whatever,
let me get out of here. I'm done. I just
(23:58):
have a hard time thinking that he would even sign
off on losing two matches going out, unless to your point,
Vincent's him being the good soldier and he's just like,
all right, do it, do whatever you want. I'm out
of here on the thirteenth and that's it.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah, Well I think he.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
I don't think it's the issue of losing two matches
on the way out as as much as it is
because to what Vince said last week, right, they did
the fuck finish when it comes to Dominic Mysterio, right,
completely crazily overbooked. But that's what he did because that's
what the judgment day does. So you have an out
with that. But coupling that with how this one finished,
(24:38):
that's where the issue comes in because it makes them
it just it leaves a really bad taste in your mouth.
You wanted some kind of a definitive ending, right, You
didn't get that with the Dom match. He lost the match,
he lost the title, He had all the whole big.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Schmas of everything.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
You wanted something definitive and in a fashion that was
celebratory for the character. So whether that ended up being
a victory where he overcomes and he's Superscena one last time,
or you get the pass out where you can preserve
the integrity of the character. At the end of the day,
(25:18):
I think that John Cena's character, more than any character
in the history of professional wrestling, needed to be preserved.
It's the reason they didn't turn them heal all those years,
including when he was as hot as can be and
as spry as can be. So why on the way
out is it all of a sudden, Okay, to completely
(25:41):
destroy the integrity.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Of it, Because that's how Triple H wants you to
remember them. That's why that's how Triple H wants you
to remember without a shadow. Guys, listen, We've got to
go back here a little bit. Okay, they had Gouther
on a role when was champion. Okay, Guther lost to
(26:05):
Sammy's Ain. Bro, Guther lost to jay Usso, Bro, those
losses are not gonna go away. So let me let
me make the comparison to you. Okay, bro, everybody can
and and you know again, keep it simple, stupid. Let's
go right to Sylvester Stallone and Rocky. Did clubber Lang
(26:28):
lose a match? Lose a fight before he got to Raki?
Did Ivan Drago lose a match before you get to Rocky?
That's how you make a guy. Bro. If Gunther would
have never lost, that would have been one thing. If
that if that run would have never ended where he
(26:48):
lost to Sammy's Ain and he was done right there, Bro,
I don't care who you are. You're not gonna rebuild
anybody after they lost to Sammy's Ain because I could
beat Sammy's ain. So so, so let's be honest. So
if he would have never lost, and then he's going
into that match with Sena, okay, fine, but you beat him, bro,
(27:12):
and you didn't beat him just once, you beat him
freaking twice the so so, so, don't sit there, you
you think for one second people are gonna think gouther
Is is invincible now because he beat a forty eight
year old John Cena. You really think that's what people
are gonna be and and they're just gonna forget the
(27:34):
same losing to Sammy's Ain and losing the Jay Huso
and Bro not only that, Let's be honest. You know,
they're horribly gonna book Gunther after this. You know they are.
They don't know how to book Bro. They don't have
a clue. Triple As doesn't have a clue how to
write a wrestling show. So you you know, Bro, They're
gonna book Gunther like shit after this.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
That's my worry. That's the worry that I have.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
Yeah, I mean I think I think they got off
to a good start on on RAW. But to your point,
it's where do they go from here? It looks like
maybe the next guy's AJ styles. You know, there's some
rumors that brock Lesnar is gonna hang it up next year,
Like maybe that's the direction they go, but we shall
see Vince real quick.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
I think there is the beneficiary of it, right, So
like that's the direction I feel like you have to go.
If brox Rea, it has to be Gunther. If AJ's
retiring and it has to be Gunther.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Did we not do that with freaking Randy Orton. Have
we not done that story Have we not done that
storyline before? We've done that exact freaking storyline, bro. So,
So Goonther's beaten old guys, like, that's what's getting him over.
He's beating old guys seen as what how old is
Sena forty as that age AJ brock Lesner is forty five.
(28:57):
So Goonther's beaten old men, and that's it's gonna get
Guther over.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
It seems that way.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
I mean, but but but where can you go? I
mean they backed it into a corner, that's the direction.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
They can go. Nowhere, bro, Because they don't know how
to make stars. They don't know how to make stars.
There's nowhere to go. There's nowhere to go. So okay,
have have have Gunther beat old men and and that
that'll be wise over because he's beaten guys that he's
freaking ten years younger than Okay, that makes sense, Vince.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
I know in other on other podcasts, you've talked about
Sena before this final match being on the Mount rushmore
of professional wrestling. Does this match and the retirement tour
and how it panned out? Does that take him off
of the Mount Rushmore or do you think he's still.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Throw Your wrestling fans, Bro, are always good. Not wrestling
fans in general, Bro, in general, You're always going to
remember the last thing you see. Bro. I remember, you know.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
Bro.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Listen, I'm going back a long time now, but I
remember you know. Bro. You know I was a huge
fan of Willie Mays. Willie May's overstayed is welcome, Bro.
And in nineteen seventy three, when the Mets played DA's
in the World Series, Willy Mays was horrible. And that's
(30:20):
how a lot of people remember Willie Mays. They forget
the unbelievable career. This guy had six hundred and sixty
home runs. They remember that last year and that that's
why I'm saying, Bro, this was clearly a way for
a triple h to put a kink in the armor
(30:40):
and and and that's that's exactly what he did.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Yeah, it's it's it's tough, you know again. I do
think that that time will do John Cena a lot
more justice in the one moment, but there are a
number of moments through this that are going to be
very difficult, I think for people to get past because
you are right when you talk about there's always a
(31:07):
recency kind of a bias. When you look at things
and you say, okay, you know me and Eric and
certain people who are big time followers in a long time,
there are certain other moments that you go back and
you listen to or you watch and you remember and
you say, okay, I can separate this from that. But
in a business in a business model where the casual
(31:30):
fan is what the target audience and the kids are
the target audience to bring in, because that's that's more
of a mass majority of a fan base. Yeah, it's
gonna be tough. I mean they tried. They used ESPN
and and all these different platforms to bring in fresh
eyes to people who may know John Cena but have
(31:51):
never seen him wrestle, and then that's the last thing
legacy that you kind of left with the character, and
it's it's tough to see that.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Yeah, I bro, I agree with you one thousand.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Bench. You've been doing a lot of really good stuff
with j C w Brother and it's been very exciting
to see, uh, what I would call an alternative or
a different version of professional wrestling that has a throwback.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Feel to it right.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
So we we talked to We've talked to a number
of NWA superstars on here, and I think what's super
appealing about the nw A is it does have a
a very traditional feel, but a fresh feel to it.
And when you talk about j c W I know, Eric,
before we jumped in here, was talking about this week's episode.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Love your Office. By the way the bar.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
You could see your fingerprints all over the product, And
I mean that as a compliment, very very complimentary. I
want to ask for you to join the same clown
posse and to jump into this world in the capacity.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
That you are.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
What is it like to work with those guys and
that situation and and kind of reinvent, you know, another
alternative of wrestling again.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Yeah, well, I want I want to make one thing
clear because a lot of people, I don't think understand
this and I didn't even really know this going in.
Shaggy is not involved with the wrestling at all. Shaggy's
not there. Uh, he's not going to be written in.
Shaggy's had a lot of bad injuries and you know,
(33:40):
Shaggy wants to stay away and that's good. Kind of
like me with Ed Ferrara, you know, Ed's Ed's been
done with wrestling for a long time and I respect that.
So it's violent Jay, it's really working with Jay. And Man,
I just got to tell you from a from a
writer's point of you. When you got a guy that
(34:04):
has created just an entire roster of these unbelievable characters
that they're already ready to go the look you know
who they are the stories, when somebody just hands that
over to a writer, Bro, that's like that, that's like
(34:26):
just you're in a candy store. Man, he did all
the work. He created all these characters. Now it's just
a matter of me, as the writer, put to put
these characters in storylines and situations. But man, Bro, he
did all the heavy lifting. He's created some unbelievable characters.
I love working with all of them. And Bro, let's
(34:49):
make let's make one thing as clear as possible. This
is not professional wrestling. This is sports entertainment. This is
not professor wrestling. And Guys, I'm going to tell you
something that has been a fact since nineteen ninety five.
So this has been a fact for thirty years. Bro.
(35:14):
When we run these shows an hour and a half,
I get a graph of the peaks and valleys of
the show from beginning to end. And Bro, when you
look at this graft, every time there is a wrestling
match in the ring, it is a valley. As soon
(35:37):
as we go to the back, it is a peak.
We go back to a wrestling match, it's a valley.
One thousand percent. There is no exception. No matter who's
in that ring, there is no exception. And I don't
know if you guys saw this last week's show, but
(35:58):
the end of the show was the teas that if
Jasmine Saint Clair loses, she's gonna have to strip down
to her bra and panties. That was the peak of
the show. Yeah, the most people were watching that at
the end of the show. And listen, guys, I am
not going to apologize for that. Those are the numbers
(36:22):
that I am looking at that I've been looking at
since nineteen ninety five, and they have not changed. They
want a television show. That's what they want, and that's
what the WWE doesn't understand the law. Bro. I did this.
I studied this. Bro. The longer matches go on, the
(36:47):
more and more the audience disappears. That's a fact that
that's that's I'm not talking opinions here. This is a fact.
It has been this way since I got in the
game thirty freaking years ago, and it has not changed.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
And then you add in three two three minute four
minute commercial breakstoreing an eight minute match, and it makes.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
It really exactly exactly, So yeah, BRO, make no bones
about it. This is sports entertainment.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
So I watched the show, and now that you're the
primary owner of JCW, what is the vision? What is
what are you looking to accomplish short term? And what
are some of the long term goals?
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Bro? The vision is what it's always been for me.
Get as many people to watch the show as possible.
Get as many people to watch your show as possible.
That's what I am there to do. And you know,
I always say, next week's show has got to be
(37:54):
better than this week's show. The show after that's got
to be better than that show. And that's what it
is all about, for me to write the best possible
show I can and just get as many people to
watch it as possible. It's that simple.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
I'll tell you when I when I was watching it,
and I noticed that too. There were more segments than
there were matches, and each segment told a different story,
like you're telling the story of James Storm, you're telling
the story of Veto, You're telling a story of Jasmine
Saint Clair. So each each segment has its own independent
(38:33):
story that you're telling. And now you're telling the story
with violent Jay losing. Now he's a wrestler. So it's
I found it to where it's it's easy to watch
because and you and you're telling a story each way
you go, and it's it really just uh it was,
it was fun and I have to say, I will
be watching next week. I thought, I thought it was
(38:54):
really good.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Yeah, Thursday show is really really, really good. And I
could tell you, like there's a shocker at the at
the end of this week's show. It's a really good show. Guys.
You gotta understand too, like this show coming up on
Thursday is only my seventh show. I would say by
the time we hit the tenth show, we hit our stride.
(39:19):
And what I mean by that is at the beginning,
the way it had to work with Violin Jay was
the way him and I worked was I was writing
all the stories, but he was booking the matches, and
the matches were cold. But now you know through these weeks, Okay,
now this story is coming out of a this match
(39:42):
is coming out of a story. Now we got two
matches coming out of stories. By the time we get
to the tenth show, every single match on that show
is related to story. There are no cold matches. And
it took it literally took two and a half months
to get there, to to build the stories and to
(40:02):
build the characters. But once we got to that tent show,
every single match now is related to stories and characters,
every single match.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Yeah, and you you too, obviously have a synchronicity that's
that's developing week by week, and you're starting to see
how that's starting to come together. How far in evance
do you guys write these shows out or is this
is this we're on the fly and seeing looking at
the numbers and seeing what's working.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Yeah, No, I I I wish it could be that.
I wish it could be that, but it's it's very
hard with with their schedule because what these guys do
is they do a wrestling show and then ic ICP
performs right after the wrestling show. So when I've got
to turn around and write for these guys in January,
(40:52):
Bro they're they're doing twelve straight shows, twelve straight days.
I've I've got to sit down and write twelve shows.
It's very very very hard and very difficult. But that
that has been a model that has been very very
successful for them, you know, combining the music and the wrestling.
(41:14):
I'm certainly not going to come in and say, guys,
you can't do this. They know what works. But from
a writing perspective, to do twelve wrestling shows twelve days
in a row is very very difficult, Vince.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
With with the wrestlers that are currently in other companies,
is there one guy or one girl that you would
just say would be perfect for JCW doesn't have to
be a current WW or aw maybe somebody's I know
you mentioned carrying Cross and Story.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Those two. I would love to. I would love to
use Cross and Scarlett. I would absolutely love to use them. Bro.
In the coming weeks, you're gonna see Nick Nemith, You're
going to see Matt Carr, you know, so we are
using a lot of those guys. But I would love to.
I would love to get into cross his head and
work with him.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
That'd be awesome.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
Oh my god, you guys would be tremendous two together. Yeah,
I was gonna ask that question. You know, you have
a well known talent too, starting to work with you guys.
When you talk about James Storm, Willie Mack, big veto
who by the way, he wouldn't know me like personally,
personally he's a great guy though he actually he lives
and I won't say like specific locations. He lives in
(42:32):
the same community as my dad. Oh when I say
it was Eric's fifty ninth birthday, then was or something?
Speaker 2 (42:39):
It was like two years.
Speaker 4 (42:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
I ran into him at the bar in that place
and talked him. We did a shot for his birthday,
took a picture with him, and then for the longest time,
every time I would see him, he would always say
hi and wave to me.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
So awesome guy.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
By the way, he is awesome. I've known him a
real long time. Bro. He's a great guy.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
Yeah, yeah, But you know you talk about Nick Namath
and Matt Cardona. When you're talking to this town and
you guys are talking about, hey, we'd like to bring
in and talk and work with you, you know what
is that like? Because again this is we haven't seen this,
this presentation of professional wrestling in you know, or sports
entertainment at this level. Uh, since the attitude here, so
(43:23):
you know, what is it like having those conversations.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Oh, the people that have called and contacted us will
blow your mind. And here here's what we get. I
I get this, and Jay gets this. This is this
is what everybody tells us. We're watching the show. It
looks like a blast. We just want to come and
have some fun. I mean that's from from from guys.
(43:48):
I mean that that you would know that have been around.
It's we we want to come and play in the sandbox.
And that's awesome.
Speaker 4 (43:57):
Man.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Because I got out of the wrestling business because of
the politics. That that's why I got out. I had enough.
It was enough. I was getting too old for it.
I wasn't gonna play the game. It was freaking enough.
When when when when Dixie got to the point of
having Pritchard there, and Hogan there, and and and and
(44:18):
Bischoff there, I was done. And I never ever ever
thought I was gonna go back again, never wanted to
go back again and again. Man. The the reason why
I really did was because I've known violent Jay bro
I've known him probably since ninety six. I've known him
for a really long time, and I know he's not
(44:40):
a political guy. He's not that guy. And the only
way this was ever gonna work for me was to
be working with somebody like him. And that's why, you know,
so far we've had a great experience, you know.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Yeah, I mean it's very, very exciting.
Speaker 4 (44:57):
You're hanging on for a few more Eric or yeah,
I got I got a I got a couple more minutes.
One of turn. Want to switch gears real quick and
talk about something you said on Coach and Pro about
about Cody Rhodes and his UH and his suspenders, and
they brought up Bob Backland. I think he also needs
a bow tie as well. Do you have stood up at.
Speaker 3 (45:20):
The Eagles of the game the other day in a suit?
Speaker 2 (45:22):
By the way, Yeah, he was.
Speaker 4 (45:24):
Him and Nicky Beller were at the Eagles game, and
and she was at the Flyers game, which was funny.
They kept her away from from d C. But nonetheless,
do you have any fun stories about Bob Beckland. It's
somebody somebody that myself and Rue will tell you. I
put a chicken wing on somebody in middle school and
he dared me to do it. We we We still
(45:47):
talk about Backland all the time. It was just like
an amazing character in the.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
The freaking mister Backland at the tail end of his career.
And I got to produce those vignettes with him, and Bro,
I would be there with literally tears in my eyes.
He was so freaking good, Bro, and it was so entertaining.
(46:15):
And I never produced him. I'm like, go and he
would go, and Oh my god, Bro, what a what
an unbelievable experience. I got to bring him down to
spring break when all the kids were on spring break.
This is about probably nineteen ninety four. And Bro, Bro,
here's the most unbelievable thing about this. I swear to god, Bro,
(46:40):
it's nineteen ninety four. It legitimately is spring break, and
it's Daytona Beach, and it's one hundred degrees right freaking
backling full suit, full wool suit, nine yards. Bro, He's
in full suit, and he put the white shit on
his numb So then Bro, we we get to the pool.
(47:05):
We get to the pool area. Bro, he rolls up
his pant legs, sits at the edge of the pool
and puts his feet in the pool. One person comes
over and these are students now, and he starts talking
to that student, and another one comes, and another one comes. Bro,
I swear to you he was holding court at spring
(47:30):
break and these freaking drunk, young partying kids were sitting
there listening to every word. He said. I I will
never forget that as long as I live. What a great,
great freaking experience. Man, that's awesome.
Speaker 4 (47:49):
Thank you for sharing this.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Oh my god, I I love love love working with him.
Speaker 3 (47:54):
Then. Yeah, I mean I met Bob Beck when in
probably about twenty thirteen, and and it was like a
like a meet and great thing and ended up talking
for like ten minutes, and he put I have a
picture of it. He put me in a chicken wing
and said, oh, we'll take a picture. And I thought
we were just gonna pose for it. Well no, he
(48:16):
locked it in on me, and it hurt, like I
did no joke. Yeah, I mean you could see in
the picture it looks like I'm not posing. That is
actual pain. But it was just so on brand with
the character and the person out And I talked to
him for like ten He was really such a great guy.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
Yeah. Do you guys remember when he got Luis g
and Frido in that chicken. Oh yeah, he was my
assistant editor. I mean that that like was a shoe?
What that was? Can can you imagine if the fans
today saw that, like, what would they think? Like? What
would they think if they saw something like that?
Speaker 3 (48:55):
Oh, it'd be wild, It will be absolutely wild.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
And this was back in.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
The vic M days, right, yes, sir, yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:02):
Which I I to this day. I started to recollect
the old WWF magazines and I go through when I
look and I read some of that old stuff in
the VIC I mean for us, you know, I was
in my preteens, teenageers.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
That was a dirt sheet for me.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
Was was I'll be honest with you, that was the
beginning of the attitude Heero. There's no question about that
VIC venom and the stuff I was saying in the
magazine was really the beginning of the attitude Heroo.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
Oh, it's tremendous. And we didn't have to call a
nine hundred hotline either to get.
Speaker 4 (49:39):
Eric. What else you got there, bud uh No, I'm
gonna drop. But then I want to just thank you
for joining us, and we hope we have you back,
you know, and we really appreciate it and it has
been fun off to the course concert I.
Speaker 3 (49:53):
Go out of the family, but yeah, I wanted to
give him a chance.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
We had another question I.
Speaker 3 (50:00):
Did want to ask you so obviously in the attitude
ere I mean, you talk about the evolution of WrestleMania,
right and the characters that developed in that, and we
talk about WrestleMania fourteen in the rise of Austin and
then with the iconic match between Rock and Austin their
first face off at WrestleMania fifteen when you were there,
(50:21):
can you talk about your experience of WrestleMania and the
rise of we'll say Steve Austin specifically right through thirteen,
fourteen and fifteen, and what it was kind of like
to be a part of writing those moments at WrestleMania
that made you know, arguably the most popular character of
(50:42):
all time.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Bro, I got to tell you this, and this is
so hard for people to believe, but this is the
god honest truth.
Speaker 3 (50:51):
Bro.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
WrestleMania was just another show. It was just another show.
It really was, I mean, because we were more like
you know, for us, you know, WrestleMania is the end
of the story, like we're done with it. We know
you know, we're more focused on the next night because
you know, Monday Night Raw is a brand new chapter.
(51:13):
We are more focused on that than WrestleMania because WrestleMania
is where at the end of the story, these are
the finishes, you know, we know that we got to
start thinking about, you know, the next cycle. So I swear, bro,
like WrestleMania was really just another show. I mean, my
(51:34):
first one that I worked was WrestleMania ten, and I
was an official, an official employee of the company at
that time. That was the first one I worked. But
you know, after those, Bro, when I was involved in
the writing and the creative, it was really just another show. Really.
Speaker 3 (51:52):
Yeah, I would imagine too, because you're right, it's like
the season finale and then the next night though there's
no break, you go right into the season.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
Man, that's exactly it, one thousand percent, and that that
show after WrestleMania, that Raw, Bro, that's your most important
Raw of the year, of the year, because you know
you're gonna have a huge audience turning in to see
the fallout from WrestleMania, and you got to hook those people,
so you know you're gonna have a huge audience and
(52:22):
you've got to go balls to the wall to keep
that audience coming back. So the Monday after is really
the biggest show of the year.
Speaker 3 (52:31):
Yeah, particularly at that time too, because you didn't have
all the internet clips. I mean, I know you had
the Sonny in ninety five, most Downloaded Superstar and all that,
but you didn't have the YouTube clips. And for the
people who couldn't afford to pay the nineteen ninety nine
or whatever WrestleMania's price point was at that time, it
was I need to tune in because I need to
(52:53):
see the stills that they would put up a.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
Yep, yep. All they would do is put up stills
one thousand percent.
Speaker 3 (53:00):
Yeah, you'll put the stills up, and then that would
be what would hook people to stay to your show.
And you remember that being so important. So yeah, those
shows were really tremendous.
Speaker 2 (53:10):
Kind of fast forward.
Speaker 3 (53:11):
A little bit, just talk a little bit about your
time with wcw Right. I mean, we've heard a lot
of things. If you've participated in you know, Dark Side
of the Ring.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
Actually, I want to ask about that.
Speaker 3 (53:23):
Because we've had quite a few people on here who
have been a part of that, and we always like
it's something we like to cover as well. Right, So
you know we had Tony Atlas on here when he
talked about the episode with Bruiser. Brody, You've been a
part of a lot of episodes, but just your experience
to work with the producers of that show.
Speaker 2 (53:45):
What was that?
Speaker 3 (53:46):
What has that experience been?
Speaker 2 (53:47):
Because you might not be.
Speaker 1 (53:49):
Done yet, Bro, I will tell you this, and I don't.
I don't want to. They've not they they haven't told
me to not talk about it, but I don't know
if they want me to talk about it. Bro. I
just did five hours with them about two weeks ago.
Oh good, Yeah, I just did five hours with them,
A grueling five hours, bro. I They've always been great
(54:12):
to me. They've always been great to me. They've always
treated me well, they've always paid me well, They've always
treated me with the utmost respect. I always tell them this, Bro,
because I don't watch them. And here's why I don't
watch them, because wrestler is are full of shit and
I'm not gonna sit here and watch you freaking blatantly lie.
(54:34):
You know this is what I've told them, Bro. I've
told them this too. I said, you know, you guys,
you have no idea of who's lying to you and
who's telling you the truth. You have no freaking idea,
I said, if it's me producing the show, I said,
guess what we're doing. When you're sitting somebody down in
your interviewing them, Bro, you're hooking their ass up to
(54:56):
a live detective test. Oh man, that would be amazing exactly.
I said, that's what you're doing. And I said, I'll
tell you right now. I will be the first in line.
I will be the first line. I'm like, because you guys,
I've watched what I have watched, and I have not
watched a lot, but guys are like blatantly lying, Like
it's a blatant lie. So it's like, what good is it? Man?
(55:20):
You don't know who's telling you the truth and who's lying.
And I said, to them, hook us up on a
lie detective test. I said, first of all, you wouldn't
get half of the people that you get. I said,
let's just get that off the bat. There is you
would eliminate half of your phone calls because no way
they would do it, absolutely no way. But at least
(55:41):
this way you'll get you know, you're always hearing ten
sides to a story. At least this way, maybe you'll
get the truth with some of these stories. Otherwise, what's
the point.
Speaker 3 (55:51):
No, it's true, man. You talk about reality television, that
would be I mean, that might be the next thing
we need to put on the.
Speaker 2 (55:58):
Russo brand over here.
Speaker 3 (56:00):
Yeah, but no, And I think that what they do
do really well, you know, is it seems like they
try to present all points in all angles without a bias.
Speaker 1 (56:10):
Yeah. And they're they're very, very very thorough, bro. I
mean when when you're when you're sitting on the other
side of that interview, bro, they ask you everything you
can possibly imagine, man, Like it's it's grueling and exhausting
because they don't leave any question on the table. Man.
Speaker 3 (56:31):
Yeah, you can tell that they're they they really take
the integrity of what they're doing to heart.
Speaker 1 (56:38):
And I got a little pissed off with them after
the first one. I got a little pissed off at
them because the first one I did was brawl for
All and they tried freaking turning that into a Vince
Russo Jim Cornett angle and and I call them on it.
I call them on it. And as a matter of fact,
(56:59):
when they call me to do the next one. I said, no,
I said, guys, come on, man, after what you did
on the on the first one, you're trying to turn
this stupid thing into an angle of me. And like, like,
I'm even gonna entertain being in an angle with Jim
Cornett and bro and literally, I'll be honest, man, I
like quadruple my price. I said, man, after that experience,
(57:23):
if you want me to do it again, this is
what it's gonna cost. But I will say this after that.
They never they never pull that again with me. They
they never did that again because because they knew I
was pretty pissed off about it.
Speaker 3 (57:37):
Yeah, and and and you could see that. You could
you could sense that when you watch that episode, I
did feel like it's in terms of, like say to
Bash at the Beach episode, you could tell there was
a little more of a neutral We're telling both sides
and listen, there's a lot of conflicting stories on things,
and we'd love to have you back at some point
and maybe talk a little bit about that. But you
can see the difference in the tone of how that
(57:59):
episod So it went where it wasn't pinted at you.
You versus Bischoff, so to speak, right, it was a
little bit more of we're going to tell our the story.
But this was awesome, man. We I'm so glad that
we got to have you on these last two weeks.
I mean what, we booked this like a month and
a half ago, so what an important two weeks to
end up having you on here. But we would love
(58:21):
to have you back again at some point in the
new year, maybe WrestleMania time or some other time.
Speaker 2 (58:26):
But but again, we've been posting up.
Speaker 3 (58:30):
We talked a lot about it, JCW and all that,
but tell us again where we can find.
Speaker 1 (58:34):
Hey, guys, I want to tell you this because I
on one of my shows today I watched and I've
seen it about three times. I've watched Tony Khan on
the Aerial Hawani show. Guys, I am not going to
sit here and pull a Tony Khan and say, guys,
(58:57):
watch Wednesday night, we did a great show and so
and so had a great match, and then next Monday
we got this and this is gonna be a great show. No,
I'm not gonna do that. Here's what I'm going to do.
Here's what I'm going to do. I'm gonna ask you
to watch two episodes. And these are not two and
a half three hour shows. There may be an hour
and twenty minutes. I am going to ask you to
(59:20):
watch two episodes, and you know what, bro in those
two episodes, We're either gonna hook you or you're gonna
turn it off. And that's fine. All I ask is
that I've been hearing for twenty five years, what happened
to sports entertainment? What happened to the attitude era? What
(59:40):
happened to crash TV. It's on Thursday nights at seven
o'clock Eastern on JCW Lunacy. But here's the bottom line.
If you guys don't watch it, and you guys don't
try it out, it's gonna go way. I mean, I mean,
it's that simple. And I'm not gonna sit here and
tell you how great it is. I put my money
(01:00:01):
where my mouthits. So all I'm gonna ask you to do.
There is a brand new episode on Thursday. Uh, just
go on YouTube JCW Lunacy when seven o'clock Eastern, and
I'm always in the chat room for the first viewing
of the show. I'm always in the chat room. But
that's all I ask guys, check it out and watch it,
(01:00:23):
and we're either gonna hook you or we're not. It's
really that simple.
Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
Which is awesome that you do.
Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
You go in, you live chat with people and talk
about the show, which is not something that we can say.
You know, it's not a tweet like you see from
TK or you know it's it's it's awesome. And that's
that's some of the kind of experience I think that
a lot of wrestling fans want, and and and it's
a unique thing. Also, we can find you at Patreon.
Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
Yeah, that's awesome. Thanks for putting that up. Guys. If
you've never been a brand member, we give you a
free week man, no strings attached, free week of the brand.
You go to patreon dot com fo it's the last
free so TWC. Yeah, if you like it and you
want to subscribe, Bro, it's only three bucks a month.
It literally seventy five cents a week. But you know,
my father always taught me, bro and something's free, take it,
(01:01:11):
so at least go get you a free week. You'll
get a week of shows. Bro, it won't cost you anything.
Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
Yeah, make sure you guys do good on check it out.
I mean Vince's and check out all the shows coaching, bro.
I mean, you're doing such good stuff, I'm telling you,
and I'm not just blowing smoke up your ass either.
You know, it's been a while, honestly, outside of certain
things like Dark Side of the Ring, where I've really
focused in on a lot of your material, and I've
really made it a point to over the last two
(01:01:39):
or three months, which is why I said we got
to get we gotta have them on. You're just such
an honest guy and whether whether you're everybody's flavor or not,
you don't. You stay true to yourself and that's something
to be commended. And again, you know what, listen over
the last week, I think a lot of things where
people might have said Vince Bruzo's full of shit. I
think after Sadday Night a lot I saw it with
(01:02:02):
my own eyes. A lot of people said, maybe the
guy doesn't get a lot enough credit for a lot
of the things that he says. So we appreciate what
you're doing. I'm glad to see you back in pro wrestling.
We hope to talk to you again. But in the meantime, brother,
best of luck to you at everything with J c
W looking forward to following it. Have a wonderful holiday,
(01:02:22):
Merry Christmas.
Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
Man. I appreciate Man. I had a great time the
last couple of weeks Man, and I really do appreciate
you guys having me on.
Speaker 3 (01:02:29):
Man anytime, brother anytime, but for myself, for Eric who
jumped off, for Vince, for tom Marknoon, godfather of a
two D radio, and everybody out there, for our doctor,
doctor Paul Vitel especialized physicotherapy. Make sure you guys get
out there. If there's somebody that you love, make sure
you give them a hug, telling me you love them.
And until next week, we'll talk to you guys soon.
Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
Go birds.
Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
Five
Everybody's got a price for the million dollar man. Oh
who's that kid?
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Nick?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
He looks like Beaker from.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Puppets The One on one Nick. Right, Yeah, yeah, I
got something amazing.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
I did not even I love I love that. If
I get five limit and they're all in the same
room with me, we're going at it at one hundred.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
What's going on? Everybody?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Welcome back Tuesday Night on a two D radio means
lazy booking podcast coming at you live on niche Night.
Happy to welcome back our guests this week. I'm chrome
joined as always by my guy Eric Archer.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
What's up, brother, what's happening? Did anything go on the
last couple of days? I'm not sure? He catch me
up to speed?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Well, we'll catch everybody up to speed, and we are
happy to welcome back the one and only the creative
genius himself, who had quite a week this week, mister
Vince Russo, what's up, brother?
Speaker 1 (01:11):
What is going on? My friends? How you guys doing tonight?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Good good? I hope you got those boot birds ready?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Oh yeah, boot birds are always ready.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Man.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Let me see, let me let me make let me
make sure they are, let me make sure they are
warmed up.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Let's have them cute up. Brother, Listen, we go, here,
we go. I love having them. Oh we heard a
lot of that this week.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Let's show a little love to our sponsor before we
dive into it at Specialized Physical Therapy doctor Paul Videll.
Oh doctor. You can find him at Burlington and Cheriol,
New Jersey, and find him on the web Specialized Physical
Therapy dot Com. No appointment necessary, So any aches, pains,
long lasting issues, anything, and you please contact him and
his award winning team to take a look at you
(02:04):
and get your set to go in the right direction
to get yourself feeling back at your peak performance. What
a week. I gotta tell you, Vince, since last week
when we had you, brother, I mean fire last week,
and we dropped some clips throughout the week of things
that you said, and I got to tell you, especially
(02:25):
the night after Saturday Night's main event, a lot of
the stuff that you put out with Trip, I mean
it went flying when you talk to it. And I
got to tell you before we dive in here one
of the things that really stuck in my head and
like me and Eric were texting about it. Of course,
the intro, the cold open for Saturday night's main event
(02:46):
has whose voice doing the intro? Yeah, And immediately I
texted me, I said, I can't get it out of
my head what Vince said, because he's one hundred percent
and I think about it. But dude, you were spot
on with it. You were on fire last week. We're excited.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, it's listen, this is this. There's a pattern here,
there's a pattern here, and guys, I have to man,
I wanna, I want, I wanna, I wanna. I want
to share something with you. Man, I gotta go. I
gotta go to my mail real quick with you, because
I guarantee you you have not seen this and and
(03:23):
you guys will pop huge. Yeah, let me let me
just stall for a little bit of time before I
I'm trying to get to my mail. I don't know
why you're doing that. Let me.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I'll say hello to everybody.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Make sure we're live on Facebook, YouTube, and x. Make
sure you guys like, subscribe, follow, and please most importantly,
we got Vince here. We're gonna pull your comments up
on the show. Join the conversation.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Questions. We're gonna talk about.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
The John Cena controversial ending to the retirement Saturday Night's
main event maybe whereas his legacy at and we're also
gonna talk about.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
J c W.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
We just had another fantastic week. We're gonna dive into
all Evince's uh projects right now and everything he's working
with with them. What's what's the what's the future look like?
We want to talk about that as well as uh,
maybe a few firing points in a segment we call
hot tag where we just kind of throw out some
random stuff and have a conversation about it.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Yeah, and we want to join the conversation. We want
to thank you all for last week, you know, all
the interaction engagement. It's awesome. Bring it on again this week.
We love it and uh ready to go, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Hold on, all right, guys, you got to let me
get the volume on this. I think you guys got
to pull it up, bro. Play this, play this, play
this clip with the with the audio sure now hold wait,
wait a minute, Hold on for a second. Wait a minute,
Wait a minute. I gotta kill I gotta kill audio
(04:57):
on another channel. Hold on for a second. He's got
you got okay, I got that dead. Okay, hold on,
let me go here let me come back to you, guys.
Hold on, hold on, I hate when I got okay,
you should you, guys. I gotta play this clip right,
(05:19):
all right, listen, listen to this clip, guys, watch this
freaking clip before we say goodbye.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
I hear since it is the holiday season, you brought
a gift over here to first Yes, very true.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I got sent here with a gift.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
There's a beautiful piece of w TW memorbilia. So Nick
Can and all your friends at wy.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Okay, Bro, are you fing kidding me? Boonther is on
steven A Smith to promote Saturday night's main event. It's
seen as last match, and freaking Triple H shoehorns himself
into that. You mean to tell me, Bro, you're not
(06:14):
gonna give steven A. Smith a piece of memorabilia from
John Cena. He's a pair of shorts that Scena. You
know what I'm saying, Bro, This guy is I I
did a show today and I Bro, listen, I swear
to you at this point with Triple H. When it
(06:35):
comes to ego, Bro, he has far and away, wait,
surpassed everybody. I'm talking Hogan, I'm talking Flair. He is
eons above everybody when it comes to this guy's ego. Bro,
I swear to god, it's it's to the point that
it's it's almost like a Christopher Guest movie. I mean,
(06:58):
every time this freaking guy turns around. Bro, you guys
saw the end of Sina Where is he? He's up
on the apron point into Oh my god, Bro, can
you imagine if Vince Russo We're doing all this stuff
opening up the trading cards with Sam Roberts, and my
(07:18):
voice over is all like, can you imagine if it
were me doing this stuff?
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Man?
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Bro, this guy I'm I'm I'm really at the point
where it's like, dude, you got issues, like you You've
really got issues to have to constantly be putting such
a spotlight on yourself. Bro, You've got You've got deep,
deep issues. Bro.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
I almost wonder if it comes from the fact that
he didn't get the retirement that he that that everybody
else is getting right because of the medical issue. This
is not an excuse by any means, because You're right,
there's a lot of self serving that's been going on.
And I do see it a lot more too after
our conversation last week, and I did feel like it
(08:04):
was very like self deprecat or self self serving to
come out and do the whole pomp and circumstance. And
the same thing can be said after WrestleMania forty right
comes out with Cody when he has his moment in
the ring.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
What about Boston? What about Boston when he's standing in
the ring the entire time with John Cena. I mean, bro,
it's it's it's it's situation. If the situation, if the situation.
He does the voice over for the WrestleMania spot for
the guys, and then he does it for the girls
(08:39):
as well, like why why why didn't Trish Stratus, you know,
do the voiceover for that spot that should have been
a female voice doing that voice over. It's bro, Honestly,
the guys got deep, deep rooted issues at this point.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
Do you think it's I know we talked about you
know what it's stemming from. But do you think and
and I heard you talk about it on one of
the shows this week, do you think it would be
beneficial for them to lean into this heal character Like
the first guy that walked out when Senior retired, it
was him and Stephanie hand in hand. Do you and
(09:16):
he got the booze on the post show and he's, Oh,
it should have been louder. Do you think it would
be beneficial for them to capitalize on this or do
you think it's kind of been used already?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
And no, no, I think that's the only thing that
could save it. And I think that's the only thing
that can save him. I really really do, because I
got to tell you, man, when you've gotten to the
point now where okay, Bro, this isn't Vince Russo just
saying it now, your own fans are saying, ufed up. Bro,
(09:48):
that's the beginning of the end. That's the beginning of
the end when your own fans are turning on you.
So if I were him, Bro, I would do that
in an absolute heartbeat. I would I would do that
in a heartbeat. And guys, guess what now The mystery
is over, Bro, because there was all that talk about
(10:09):
why seen his final match wasn't in Boston, and the
story was because the WWE wanted the building to pay
extra money for it, and the building said, no, Bro,
that's bullshit. They knew what this finish. He knew what
this finish was gonna be all along. Bro, could you
imagine if this finish would have took place in Boston.
(10:31):
Can you imagine if this finish would have taken place
in seeing his hometown, Bro, they would have rioted. They
literally would have rioted. That was nothing what we saw
on Saturday night. If that was in Boston and that
was the finish, forget about it, Bro, That's why the
match wasn't in Boston.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Oh, it would have been absolutely insane, and they did.
They took advantage of it as if it was like
a bidding process, Like it's like we're talking about bidding
for WrestleMania in the super Bowl, which hard of me says,
I can't. I can't blame him for that because it's
it's it's a huge thing that that people obviously wanted
their city to partake in. I do think it's a
(11:13):
huge missed opportunity. But again, if that finish happens in Boston,
like we talk about one night's standing against Rob van
Dam and how that was kind of an iconic scenic moment,
right and one of the more visceral crowd reactions of
all time. I mean, they legitimately might have rioted. This
might have been horsemen inside the cage breaking Dusty's leg
(11:36):
level of rioting.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yeah, no, absolutely, Bro, And that's why this had never
happened before. Where Okay, Bro, this is a special night
and we want X amount of dollars extra from the arena.
This is the first time that ever happened. And that's why.
That is exactly why, Bro, they had to come up
(11:59):
with some kind of reason, in some kind of situation
for that last match not to be in Boston because
they knew what they were going to do. That would
oh my god, Bro, Triple H would have had a
crawl under the ring if that was in Boston.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Do you think that's Nick con or do you think
that's further up from him? Or do you think it's
just all of them conglomorate like we're just seeing the
dollar signs. We want to go where someone's gonna pay
for it.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Nah? Well, Bro, in this case, Bro, there is no way,
there is no way anybody can look at seen as
farewell tor and and ask the question, Okay, who was
in charge of creative? Who was behind that Triple H? Fine,
(12:50):
there's no way anybody can look at that and say
this guy should not be fired. Bro. When you look
at the last of John Cena, Bro, what was the
John Cena highlight? He got killed by brock Lessner. He
lost his last two matches on the way out. Even
(13:11):
when he won the title, it was because of Travis Scott.
Then they did that horrible heel turn. What was Seena's
moment in this last year beating aj Styles? I think
he beat jay Us So those were the moments. And
then and then, Bro, Triple H is gonna sit there
(13:32):
and talk about a time honored tradition. Bro, what time
honored tradition is you put the guy over on the
way out, not two guys over. He lost his last
two match. That's it, Bro, Nobody's ever done that. Nobody's
ever done that. What they've done in the past is
they've built somebody built, somebody built somebody, and then the
(13:54):
guy on his way out does the favor. That's the
way it's done. First of all, they never built good
going through, never built I mean, what a freaking tournament.
And then you beat Sina his last two matches, Bro,
somebody needs to be fired over that. Somebody's gonna sit
there and tell me Vince McMahon would have booked Scena
(14:15):
this way?
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Yeah, I think so, let's get into the topic because
we're in it right you kind of already touched on it.
Let's jump in or agree to disagree for the night,
and everybody wants to jump in, please do ww having
John Cena tap out to Gunther was the right decision?
Agree or disagreeing? Wherever you guys are at, please drop
the comments in comments again is last week? Are already
(14:39):
starting to fly in. But I think you've been touching
on it, Vince. But but your thoughts on that, I'm
sure you're gonna disagree with.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
This, Bro. The guy built a twenty five year career
of never give up. When you talk John Cena, one
of the first things you think about off the bat
are all the make a Wish kids. Bro. That's where
never gives Up come from is dealing with kids that
(15:11):
have terminal illnesses and they're going to die. And my god, Bro,
he's met with thousands of kids over his career spreading
that message never give up, and in his very last match,
he gives up. So you're telling those kids that, hey,
you know what, guys like, Let's be honest, eventually you're
(15:33):
going to give up in life. You're eventually going to
give up. Bro. That was so clearly the wrong finish
without a shadow of a doubt. And I don't care
what anybody says, I one million percent hold Triple H
(15:55):
responsible for that, because let me tell you this, Bro,
everybody knows like see has got a reputation of being
a nice guy and what puts everybody over and this,
that and the other thing great. So I'm gonna give
them the benefit of the doubt. If Sena pitches that,
if he's the one pitching that, Bro, somebody's gotta be
(16:16):
there saying, John, we appreciate that it ain't happening, okay, Bro.
And I'll be honest with you, I would believe that
Sena pitched that thinking somebody else was gonna say that,
thinking somebody else was gonna say, John, we appreciate that.
(16:36):
We know what you're trying to do, but we can't
do that. And nobody said anything, Bro, And that was
one billion percent the wrong finish, And it was a
finish for for for Triple H to make sure the
John Cena legacy is not gonna be greater than his legacy.
(17:01):
And Bro, that that's what this entire thing was about,
because if it wasn't about spite and jealousy. Then literally,
Triple H is a moron and and he's not qualified
for the job. It's that simple. So, Bro, it's one
of two things. You either did this whole thing on
(17:21):
purpose or Bro, you are not qualified for this job whatsoever.
And I want to believe it's not the latter. I
don't think Triple H is stupid. I think Triple H
knows exactly what he's doing, and he knew exactly what
he was doing.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
My initial reaction, So I don't think it was necessarily
the wrong decision to lose. I saw the story, I
would make the argument. Now again, I'm gonna there's gonna
be a different ending to this, but I would make
the argument.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Right.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
We talked all week last week about story and consistency
and story. And then when I sit and I hear
John Cena say I'm going to ruin wrestling, and all
week he talks on Pat McAfee about how you know Matt,
Pat McAfee and ESPN, all these different networks about how
you know the character is coming to an end, but
(18:22):
the man still moves on. So when I look at
the story, this might have been the most consistent story
in the beginning. He says, I'm going to go till
the end of this he ends up winning this title.
He's going to do what he has to do. He's
gonna be desphere, He's gonna go around. He wins the title,
he's going to ruin wrestling. And I do feel like
(18:43):
when you look at the commentary, wrestling defeated or wrestling
killed sports entertainment, right, Uh, I felt like that all.
I felt like he was telling us it was going
to be Gunther, and Gunther was going to go over
all along. If you really start to look, a lot
of the context closed through now the road there was
all over the place. I mean, this is GPS taking
(19:07):
you up and downhills and all around and trying to
detour all over the place. I think we got there.
And initially when I saw how it ended, it was
it was almost kind of foreshadowing. When I heard him
talk on McAfee and I heard him talk on Chris
flad Lead about the you know the character is ending,
but the man's going to go on. It was like
(19:27):
the light switch is on now that this character is done.
And that's why he had kind of the face nothing
left in the character because he talked about how his
body can't handle it like it used to.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
So I just kind of.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Put all those pieces together and I thought, oh, I
thought it actually.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Told a really beautiful story.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
But again, after I kind of removed myself and everything
that you talked about, it's what does the character mean,
and it's the legacy of the character. And I have
to agree that the tap out was a terrible, terrible decision.
The pass out could have had. You don't think Sena
should have won the match. I think that what you're
seeing with Guntherro is what you could have got. Like
(20:05):
his promo last night on Raw was short and sweet,
and then the whole kind of carrying himself with an
arrogance in the back around everybody and making the comments
and moxy. You could have did that with the pass
out to.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Bro, you could have You could have done that with
Goonther pinning him. BRO. Think about think about this. Just
think about the WWE is all about moments. They were
all about moments. BRO. Think about this. You're going into
that match, Bro, you invite two hundred Make a Wish
kids to sit ringside. Okay, they're there for the entire match. Bro,
(20:43):
You're getting shots of them throughout the entire match. Bro,
Goonther beats Sena. Makes sense. Bro, He's younger, he's quicker,
he's stronger. No, nobody would have a hard time believing that. Okay,
he beats them, Bro, he outlast them. Scene is out
of gas. Okay, Goontha gets the victory. You know, realizes
(21:08):
the moment like any wrestler would have, that this is
John Cena's last match. All Gounth has gotta do is
reach out, help him up, look him in the eye,
shake his hand, and walk out of the ring. Now
scene is up. Uh, you know he didn't tap, he
(21:31):
didn't pass out. He got beat Bro. Now you let
those kids in the ring, and you let those kids
share that last moment with John Cena. That was John
Cena's career. The kids, the make a wish, don't ever
give up. That's the scene, Bro. There would not have
(21:53):
been a dry eye in the freaking house. It would
not have hurt Gotha. All Gluther could have came back
the next night when Seene is gone. I told you
what I was gonna do. I retired. He could have
cut the same exact promo and been in the same
exact place. This was one thousand percent the obsolute, absolute
(22:20):
opposite of what the finish should have been, and freaking
Triple H knows it, and shame on him. And I
got one thing to say to Triple H. Bro, And
I'm telling you, guys, Karma is a bitch.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Man.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Karma is a bitch and all this stuff man is
gonna come around and bite you in the ass. And
the fact that you're getting booed out of the building, Bro,
Vince Russo isn't the only one that's onto you. You've
actually done this so many times that now you've smartened
up your own audience to see and understand what you've
(22:57):
done here.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Yeah, I agree with both of you and that the
finish just wasn't what should have happened to tap out
just the way it was done. It was just I
think it just just the nonchalantness of it, the unnecessariness
of it.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Right.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
But I think I'm seeing a lot of people kind
of saying they thought that Sina was gonna win this match.
I was not one of those. I thought for sure
he was not winning this match. I think people thought
that because of losing a Survivor series and like having
him lose two matches on the way out, and I
(23:36):
don't I looking back and saying like I didn't think
he needed to win those matches or any of those matches.
It just it just doesn't sit right with me that
he I don't and I don't know if I find
it hard to believe that he would even sign off
on losing unless he was just like, you know what, whatever,
let me get out of here. I'm done. I just
(23:58):
have a hard time thinking that he would even sign
off on losing two matches going out, unless to your point,
Vincent's him being the good soldier and he's just like,
all right, do it, do whatever you want. I'm out
of here on the thirteenth and that's it.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah, Well I think he.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
I don't think it's the issue of losing two matches
on the way out as as much as it is
because to what Vince said last week, right, they did
the fuck finish when it comes to Dominic Mysterio, right,
completely crazily overbooked. But that's what he did because that's
what the judgment day does. So you have an out
with that. But coupling that with how this one finished,
(24:38):
that's where the issue comes in because it makes them
it just it leaves a really bad taste in your mouth.
You wanted some kind of a definitive ending, right, You
didn't get that with the Dom match. He lost the match,
he lost the title, He had all the whole big.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Schmas of everything.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
You wanted something definitive and in a fashion that was
celebratory for the character. So whether that ended up being
a victory where he overcomes and he's Superscena one last time,
or you get the pass out where you can preserve
the integrity of the character. At the end of the day,
(25:18):
I think that John Cena's character, more than any character
in the history of professional wrestling, needed to be preserved.
It's the reason they didn't turn them heal all those years,
including when he was as hot as can be and
as spry as can be. So why on the way
out is it all of a sudden, Okay, to completely
(25:41):
destroy the integrity.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Of it, Because that's how Triple H wants you to
remember them. That's why that's how Triple H wants you
to remember without a shadow. Guys, listen, We've got to
go back here a little bit. Okay, they had Gouther
on a role when was champion. Okay, Guther lost to
(26:05):
Sammy's Ain. Bro, Guther lost to jay Usso, Bro, those
losses are not gonna go away. So let me let
me make the comparison to you. Okay, bro, everybody can
and and you know again, keep it simple, stupid. Let's
go right to Sylvester Stallone and Rocky. Did clubber Lang
(26:28):
lose a match? Lose a fight before he got to Raki?
Did Ivan Drago lose a match before you get to Rocky?
That's how you make a guy. Bro. If Gunther would
have never lost, that would have been one thing. If
that if that run would have never ended where he
(26:48):
lost to Sammy's Ain and he was done right there, Bro,
I don't care who you are. You're not gonna rebuild
anybody after they lost to Sammy's Ain because I could
beat Sammy's ain. So so, so let's be honest. So
if he would have never lost, and then he's going
into that match with Sena, okay, fine, but you beat him, bro,
(27:12):
and you didn't beat him just once, you beat him
freaking twice the so so, so, don't sit there, you
you think for one second people are gonna think gouther
Is is invincible now because he beat a forty eight
year old John Cena. You really think that's what people
are gonna be and and they're just gonna forget the
(27:34):
same losing to Sammy's Ain and losing the Jay Huso
and Bro not only that, Let's be honest. You know,
they're horribly gonna book Gunther after this. You know they are.
They don't know how to book Bro. They don't have
a clue. Triple As doesn't have a clue how to
write a wrestling show. So you you know, Bro, They're
gonna book Gunther like shit after this.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
That's my worry. That's the worry that I have.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
Yeah, I mean I think I think they got off
to a good start on on RAW. But to your point,
it's where do they go from here? It looks like
maybe the next guy's AJ styles. You know, there's some
rumors that brock Lesnar is gonna hang it up next year,
Like maybe that's the direction they go, but we shall
see Vince real quick.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
I think there is the beneficiary of it, right, So
like that's the direction I feel like you have to go.
If brox Rea, it has to be Gunther. If AJ's
retiring and it has to be Gunther.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Did we not do that with freaking Randy Orton. Have
we not done that story Have we not done that
storyline before? We've done that exact freaking storyline, bro. So,
So Goonther's beaten old guys, like, that's what's getting him over.
He's beating old guys seen as what how old is
Sena forty as that age AJ brock Lesner is forty five.
(28:57):
So Goonther's beaten old men, and that's it's gonna get
Guther over.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
It seems that way.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
I mean, but but but where can you go? I
mean they backed it into a corner, that's the direction.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
They can go. Nowhere, bro, Because they don't know how
to make stars. They don't know how to make stars.
There's nowhere to go. There's nowhere to go. So okay,
have have have Gunther beat old men and and that
that'll be wise over because he's beaten guys that he's
freaking ten years younger than Okay, that makes sense, Vince.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
I know in other on other podcasts, you've talked about
Sena before this final match being on the Mount rushmore
of professional wrestling. Does this match and the retirement tour
and how it panned out? Does that take him off
of the Mount Rushmore or do you think he's still.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Throw Your wrestling fans, Bro, are always good. Not wrestling
fans in general, Bro, in general, You're always going to
remember the last thing you see. Bro. I remember, you know.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
Bro.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Listen, I'm going back a long time now, but I
remember you know. Bro. You know I was a huge
fan of Willie Mays. Willie May's overstayed is welcome, Bro.
And in nineteen seventy three, when the Mets played DA's
in the World Series, Willy Mays was horrible. And that's
(30:20):
how a lot of people remember Willie Mays. They forget
the unbelievable career. This guy had six hundred and sixty
home runs. They remember that last year and that that's
why I'm saying, Bro, this was clearly a way for
a triple h to put a kink in the armor
(30:40):
and and and that's that's exactly what he did.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Yeah, it's it's it's tough, you know again. I do
think that that time will do John Cena a lot
more justice in the one moment, but there are a
number of moments through this that are going to be
very difficult, I think for people to get past because
you are right when you talk about there's always a
(31:07):
recency kind of a bias. When you look at things
and you say, okay, you know me and Eric and
certain people who are big time followers in a long time,
there are certain other moments that you go back and
you listen to or you watch and you remember and
you say, okay, I can separate this from that. But
in a business in a business model where the casual
(31:30):
fan is what the target audience and the kids are
the target audience to bring in, because that's that's more
of a mass majority of a fan base. Yeah, it's
gonna be tough. I mean they tried. They used ESPN
and and all these different platforms to bring in fresh
eyes to people who may know John Cena but have
(31:51):
never seen him wrestle, and then that's the last thing
legacy that you kind of left with the character, and
it's it's tough to see that.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Yeah, I bro, I agree with you one thousand.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Bench. You've been doing a lot of really good stuff
with j C w Brother and it's been very exciting
to see, uh, what I would call an alternative or
a different version of professional wrestling that has a throwback.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Feel to it right.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
So we we talked to We've talked to a number
of NWA superstars on here, and I think what's super
appealing about the nw A is it does have a
a very traditional feel, but a fresh feel to it.
And when you talk about j c W I know, Eric,
before we jumped in here, was talking about this week's episode.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Love your Office. By the way the bar.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
You could see your fingerprints all over the product, And
I mean that as a compliment, very very complimentary. I
want to ask for you to join the same clown
posse and to jump into this world in the capacity.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
That you are.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
What is it like to work with those guys and
that situation and and kind of reinvent, you know, another
alternative of wrestling again.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Yeah, well, I want I want to make one thing
clear because a lot of people, I don't think understand
this and I didn't even really know this going in.
Shaggy is not involved with the wrestling at all. Shaggy's
not there. Uh, he's not going to be written in.
Shaggy's had a lot of bad injuries and you know,
(33:40):
Shaggy wants to stay away and that's good. Kind of
like me with Ed Ferrara, you know, Ed's Ed's been
done with wrestling for a long time and I respect that.
So it's violent Jay, it's really working with Jay. And Man,
I just got to tell you from a from a
writer's point of you. When you got a guy that
(34:04):
has created just an entire roster of these unbelievable characters
that they're already ready to go the look you know
who they are the stories, when somebody just hands that
over to a writer, Bro, that's like that, that's like
(34:26):
just you're in a candy store. Man, he did all
the work. He created all these characters. Now it's just
a matter of me, as the writer, put to put
these characters in storylines and situations. But man, Bro, he
did all the heavy lifting. He's created some unbelievable characters.
I love working with all of them. And Bro, let's
(34:49):
make let's make one thing as clear as possible. This
is not professional wrestling. This is sports entertainment. This is
not professor wrestling. And Guys, I'm going to tell you
something that has been a fact since nineteen ninety five.
So this has been a fact for thirty years. Bro.
(35:14):
When we run these shows an hour and a half,
I get a graph of the peaks and valleys of
the show from beginning to end. And Bro, when you
look at this graft, every time there is a wrestling
match in the ring, it is a valley. As soon
(35:37):
as we go to the back, it is a peak.
We go back to a wrestling match, it's a valley.
One thousand percent. There is no exception. No matter who's
in that ring, there is no exception. And I don't
know if you guys saw this last week's show, but
(35:58):
the end of the show was the teas that if
Jasmine Saint Clair loses, she's gonna have to strip down
to her bra and panties. That was the peak of
the show. Yeah, the most people were watching that at
the end of the show. And listen, guys, I am
not going to apologize for that. Those are the numbers
(36:22):
that I am looking at that I've been looking at
since nineteen ninety five, and they have not changed. They
want a television show. That's what they want, and that's
what the WWE doesn't understand the law. Bro. I did this.
I studied this. Bro. The longer matches go on, the
(36:47):
more and more the audience disappears. That's a fact that
that's that's I'm not talking opinions here. This is a fact.
It has been this way since I got in the
game thirty freaking years ago, and it has not changed.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
And then you add in three two three minute four
minute commercial breakstoreing an eight minute match, and it makes.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
It really exactly exactly, So yeah, BRO, make no bones
about it. This is sports entertainment.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
So I watched the show, and now that you're the
primary owner of JCW, what is the vision? What is
what are you looking to accomplish short term? And what
are some of the long term goals?
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Bro? The vision is what it's always been for me.
Get as many people to watch the show as possible.
Get as many people to watch your show as possible.
That's what I am there to do. And you know,
I always say, next week's show has got to be
(37:54):
better than this week's show. The show after that's got
to be better than that show. And that's what it
is all about, for me to write the best possible
show I can and just get as many people to
watch it as possible. It's that simple.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
I'll tell you when I when I was watching it,
and I noticed that too. There were more segments than
there were matches, and each segment told a different story,
like you're telling the story of James Storm, you're telling
the story of Veto, You're telling a story of Jasmine
Saint Clair. So each each segment has its own independent
(38:33):
story that you're telling. And now you're telling the story
with violent Jay losing. Now he's a wrestler. So it's
I found it to where it's it's easy to watch
because and you and you're telling a story each way
you go, and it's it really just uh it was,
it was fun and I have to say, I will
be watching next week. I thought, I thought it was
(38:54):
really good.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Yeah, Thursday show is really really, really good. And I
could tell you, like there's a shocker at the at
the end of this week's show. It's a really good show. Guys.
You gotta understand too, like this show coming up on
Thursday is only my seventh show. I would say by
the time we hit the tenth show, we hit our stride.
(39:19):
And what I mean by that is at the beginning,
the way it had to work with Violin Jay was
the way him and I worked was I was writing
all the stories, but he was booking the matches, and
the matches were cold. But now you know through these weeks, Okay,
now this story is coming out of a this match
(39:42):
is coming out of a story. Now we got two
matches coming out of stories. By the time we get
to the tenth show, every single match on that show
is related to story. There are no cold matches. And
it took it literally took two and a half months
to get there, to to build the stories and to
(40:02):
build the characters. But once we got to that tent show,
every single match now is related to stories and characters,
every single match.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Yeah, and you you too, obviously have a synchronicity that's
that's developing week by week, and you're starting to see
how that's starting to come together. How far in evance
do you guys write these shows out or is this
is this we're on the fly and seeing looking at
the numbers and seeing what's working.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Yeah, No, I I I wish it could be that.
I wish it could be that, but it's it's very
hard with with their schedule because what these guys do
is they do a wrestling show and then ic ICP
performs right after the wrestling show. So when I've got
to turn around and write for these guys in January,
(40:52):
Bro they're they're doing twelve straight shows, twelve straight days.
I've I've got to sit down and write twelve shows.
It's very very very hard and very difficult. But that
that has been a model that has been very very
successful for them, you know, combining the music and the wrestling.
(41:14):
I'm certainly not going to come in and say, guys,
you can't do this. They know what works. But from
a writing perspective, to do twelve wrestling shows twelve days
in a row is very very difficult, Vince.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
With with the wrestlers that are currently in other companies,
is there one guy or one girl that you would
just say would be perfect for JCW doesn't have to
be a current WW or aw maybe somebody's I know
you mentioned carrying Cross and Story.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Those two. I would love to. I would love to
use Cross and Scarlett. I would absolutely love to use them. Bro.
In the coming weeks, you're gonna see Nick Nemith, You're
going to see Matt Carr, you know, so we are
using a lot of those guys. But I would love to.
I would love to get into cross his head and
work with him.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
That'd be awesome.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
Oh my god, you guys would be tremendous two together. Yeah,
I was gonna ask that question. You know, you have
a well known talent too, starting to work with you guys.
When you talk about James Storm, Willie Mack, big veto
who by the way, he wouldn't know me like personally,
personally he's a great guy though he actually he lives
and I won't say like specific locations. He lives in
(42:32):
the same community as my dad. Oh when I say
it was Eric's fifty ninth birthday, then was or something?
Speaker 2 (42:39):
It was like two years.
Speaker 4 (42:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
I ran into him at the bar in that place
and talked him. We did a shot for his birthday,
took a picture with him, and then for the longest time,
every time I would see him, he would always say
hi and wave to me.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
So awesome guy.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
By the way, he is awesome. I've known him a
real long time. Bro. He's a great guy.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
Yeah, yeah, But you know you talk about Nick Namath
and Matt Cardona. When you're talking to this town and
you guys are talking about, hey, we'd like to bring
in and talk and work with you, you know what
is that like? Because again this is we haven't seen this,
this presentation of professional wrestling in you know, or sports
entertainment at this level. Uh, since the attitude here, so
(43:23):
you know, what is it like having those conversations.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Oh, the people that have called and contacted us will
blow your mind. And here here's what we get. I
I get this, and Jay gets this. This is this
is what everybody tells us. We're watching the show. It
looks like a blast. We just want to come and
have some fun. I mean that's from from from guys.
(43:48):
I mean that that you would know that have been around.
It's we we want to come and play in the sandbox.
And that's awesome.
Speaker 4 (43:57):
Man.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Because I got out of the wrestling business because of
the politics. That that's why I got out. I had enough.
It was enough. I was getting too old for it.
I wasn't gonna play the game. It was freaking enough.
When when when when Dixie got to the point of
having Pritchard there, and Hogan there, and and and and
(44:18):
Bischoff there, I was done. And I never ever ever
thought I was gonna go back again, never wanted to
go back again and again. Man. The the reason why
I really did was because I've known violent Jay bro
I've known him probably since ninety six. I've known him
for a really long time, and I know he's not
(44:40):
a political guy. He's not that guy. And the only
way this was ever gonna work for me was to
be working with somebody like him. And that's why, you know,
so far we've had a great experience, you know.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Yeah, I mean it's very, very exciting.
Speaker 4 (44:57):
You're hanging on for a few more Eric or yeah,
I got I got a I got a couple more minutes.
One of turn. Want to switch gears real quick and
talk about something you said on Coach and Pro about
about Cody Rhodes and his UH and his suspenders, and
they brought up Bob Backland. I think he also needs
a bow tie as well. Do you have stood up at.
Speaker 3 (45:20):
The Eagles of the game the other day in a suit?
Speaker 2 (45:22):
By the way, Yeah, he was.
Speaker 4 (45:24):
Him and Nicky Beller were at the Eagles game, and
and she was at the Flyers game, which was funny.
They kept her away from from d C. But nonetheless,
do you have any fun stories about Bob Beckland. It's
somebody somebody that myself and Rue will tell you. I
put a chicken wing on somebody in middle school and
he dared me to do it. We we We still
(45:47):
talk about Backland all the time. It was just like
an amazing character in the.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
The freaking mister Backland at the tail end of his career.
And I got to produce those vignettes with him, and Bro,
I would be there with literally tears in my eyes.
He was so freaking good, Bro, and it was so entertaining.
(46:15):
And I never produced him. I'm like, go and he
would go, and Oh my god, Bro, what a what
an unbelievable experience. I got to bring him down to
spring break when all the kids were on spring break.
This is about probably nineteen ninety four. And Bro, Bro,
here's the most unbelievable thing about this. I swear to god, Bro,
(46:40):
it's nineteen ninety four. It legitimately is spring break, and
it's Daytona Beach, and it's one hundred degrees right freaking
backling full suit, full wool suit, nine yards. Bro, He's
in full suit, and he put the white shit on
his numb So then Bro, we we get to the pool.
(47:05):
We get to the pool area. Bro, he rolls up
his pant legs, sits at the edge of the pool
and puts his feet in the pool. One person comes
over and these are students now, and he starts talking
to that student, and another one comes, and another one comes. Bro,
I swear to you he was holding court at spring
(47:30):
break and these freaking drunk, young partying kids were sitting
there listening to every word. He said. I I will
never forget that as long as I live. What a great,
great freaking experience. Man, that's awesome.
Speaker 4 (47:49):
Thank you for sharing this.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Oh my god, I I love love love working with him.
Speaker 3 (47:54):
Then. Yeah, I mean I met Bob Beck when in
probably about twenty thirteen, and and it was like a
like a meet and great thing and ended up talking
for like ten minutes, and he put I have a
picture of it. He put me in a chicken wing
and said, oh, we'll take a picture. And I thought
we were just gonna pose for it. Well no, he
(48:16):
locked it in on me, and it hurt, like I
did no joke. Yeah, I mean you could see in
the picture it looks like I'm not posing. That is
actual pain. But it was just so on brand with
the character and the person out And I talked to
him for like ten He was really such a great guy.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
Yeah. Do you guys remember when he got Luis g
and Frido in that chicken. Oh yeah, he was my
assistant editor. I mean that that like was a shoe?
What that was? Can can you imagine if the fans
today saw that, like, what would they think? Like? What
would they think if they saw something like that?
Speaker 3 (48:55):
Oh, it'd be wild, It will be absolutely wild.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
And this was back in.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
The vic M days, right, yes, sir, yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:02):
Which I I to this day. I started to recollect
the old WWF magazines and I go through when I
look and I read some of that old stuff in
the VIC I mean for us, you know, I was
in my preteens, teenageers.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
That was a dirt sheet for me.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
Was was I'll be honest with you, that was the
beginning of the attitude Heero. There's no question about that
VIC venom and the stuff I was saying in the
magazine was really the beginning of the attitude Heroo.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
Oh, it's tremendous. And we didn't have to call a
nine hundred hotline either to get.
Speaker 4 (49:39):
Eric. What else you got there, bud uh No, I'm
gonna drop. But then I want to just thank you
for joining us, and we hope we have you back,
you know, and we really appreciate it and it has
been fun off to the course concert I.
Speaker 3 (49:53):
Go out of the family, but yeah, I wanted to
give him a chance.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
We had another question I.
Speaker 3 (50:00):
Did want to ask you so obviously in the attitude
ere I mean, you talk about the evolution of WrestleMania,
right and the characters that developed in that, and we
talk about WrestleMania fourteen in the rise of Austin and
then with the iconic match between Rock and Austin their
first face off at WrestleMania fifteen when you were there,
(50:21):
can you talk about your experience of WrestleMania and the
rise of we'll say Steve Austin specifically right through thirteen,
fourteen and fifteen, and what it was kind of like
to be a part of writing those moments at WrestleMania
that made you know, arguably the most popular character of
(50:42):
all time.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Bro, I got to tell you this, and this is
so hard for people to believe, but this is the
god honest truth.
Speaker 3 (50:51):
Bro.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
WrestleMania was just another show. It was just another show.
It really was, I mean, because we were more like
you know, for us, you know, WrestleMania is the end
of the story, like we're done with it. We know
you know, we're more focused on the next night because
you know, Monday Night Raw is a brand new chapter.
(51:13):
We are more focused on that than WrestleMania because WrestleMania
is where at the end of the story, these are
the finishes, you know, we know that we got to
start thinking about, you know, the next cycle. So I swear, bro,
like WrestleMania was really just another show. I mean, my
(51:34):
first one that I worked was WrestleMania ten, and I
was an official, an official employee of the company at
that time. That was the first one I worked. But
you know, after those, Bro, when I was involved in
the writing and the creative, it was really just another show. Really.
Speaker 3 (51:52):
Yeah, I would imagine too, because you're right, it's like
the season finale and then the next night though there's
no break, you go right into the season.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
Man, that's exactly it, one thousand percent, and that that
show after WrestleMania, that Raw, Bro, that's your most important
Raw of the year, of the year, because you know
you're gonna have a huge audience turning in to see
the fallout from WrestleMania, and you got to hook those people,
so you know you're gonna have a huge audience and
(52:22):
you've got to go balls to the wall to keep
that audience coming back. So the Monday after is really
the biggest show of the year.
Speaker 3 (52:31):
Yeah, particularly at that time too, because you didn't have
all the internet clips. I mean, I know you had
the Sonny in ninety five, most Downloaded Superstar and all that,
but you didn't have the YouTube clips. And for the
people who couldn't afford to pay the nineteen ninety nine
or whatever WrestleMania's price point was at that time, it
was I need to tune in because I need to
(52:53):
see the stills that they would put up a.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
Yep, yep. All they would do is put up stills
one thousand percent.
Speaker 3 (53:00):
Yeah, you'll put the stills up, and then that would
be what would hook people to stay to your show.
And you remember that being so important. So yeah, those
shows were really tremendous.
Speaker 2 (53:10):
Kind of fast forward.
Speaker 3 (53:11):
A little bit, just talk a little bit about your
time with wcw Right. I mean, we've heard a lot
of things. If you've participated in you know, Dark Side
of the Ring.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
Actually, I want to ask about that.
Speaker 3 (53:23):
Because we've had quite a few people on here who
have been a part of that, and we always like
it's something we like to cover as well. Right, So
you know we had Tony Atlas on here when he
talked about the episode with Bruiser. Brody, You've been a
part of a lot of episodes, but just your experience
to work with the producers of that show.
Speaker 2 (53:45):
What was that?
Speaker 3 (53:46):
What has that experience been?
Speaker 2 (53:47):
Because you might not be.
Speaker 1 (53:49):
Done yet, Bro, I will tell you this, and I don't.
I don't want to. They've not they they haven't told
me to not talk about it, but I don't know
if they want me to talk about it. Bro. I
just did five hours with them about two weeks ago.
Oh good, Yeah, I just did five hours with them,
A grueling five hours, bro. I They've always been great
(54:12):
to me. They've always been great to me. They've always
treated me well, they've always paid me well, They've always
treated me with the utmost respect. I always tell them this, Bro,
because I don't watch them. And here's why I don't
watch them, because wrestler is are full of shit and
I'm not gonna sit here and watch you freaking blatantly lie.
(54:34):
You know this is what I've told them, Bro. I've
told them this too. I said, you know, you guys,
you have no idea of who's lying to you and
who's telling you the truth. You have no freaking idea,
I said, if it's me producing the show, I said,
guess what we're doing. When you're sitting somebody down in
your interviewing them, Bro, you're hooking their ass up to
(54:56):
a live detective test. Oh man, that would be amazing exactly.
I said, that's what you're doing. And I said, I'll
tell you right now. I will be the first in line.
I will be the first line. I'm like, because you guys,
I've watched what I have watched, and I have not
watched a lot, but guys are like blatantly lying, Like
it's a blatant lie. So it's like, what good is it? Man?
(55:20):
You don't know who's telling you the truth and who's lying.
And I said, to them, hook us up on a
lie detective test. I said, first of all, you wouldn't
get half of the people that you get. I said,
let's just get that off the bat. There is you
would eliminate half of your phone calls because no way
they would do it, absolutely no way. But at least
(55:41):
this way you'll get you know, you're always hearing ten
sides to a story. At least this way, maybe you'll
get the truth with some of these stories. Otherwise, what's
the point.
Speaker 3 (55:51):
No, it's true, man. You talk about reality television, that
would be I mean, that might be the next thing
we need to put on the.
Speaker 2 (55:58):
Russo brand over here.
Speaker 3 (56:00):
Yeah, but no, And I think that what they do
do really well, you know, is it seems like they
try to present all points in all angles without a bias.
Speaker 1 (56:10):
Yeah. And they're they're very, very very thorough, bro. I
mean when when you're when you're sitting on the other
side of that interview, bro, they ask you everything you
can possibly imagine, man, Like it's it's grueling and exhausting
because they don't leave any question on the table. Man.
Speaker 3 (56:31):
Yeah, you can tell that they're they they really take
the integrity of what they're doing to heart.
Speaker 1 (56:38):
And I got a little pissed off with them after
the first one. I got a little pissed off at
them because the first one I did was brawl for
All and they tried freaking turning that into a Vince
Russo Jim Cornett angle and and I call them on it.
I call them on it. And as a matter of fact,
(56:59):
when they call me to do the next one. I said, no,
I said, guys, come on, man, after what you did
on the on the first one, you're trying to turn
this stupid thing into an angle of me. And like, like,
I'm even gonna entertain being in an angle with Jim
Cornett and bro and literally, I'll be honest, man, I
like quadruple my price. I said, man, after that experience,
(57:23):
if you want me to do it again, this is
what it's gonna cost. But I will say this after that.
They never they never pull that again with me. They
they never did that again because because they knew I
was pretty pissed off about it.
Speaker 3 (57:37):
Yeah, and and and you could see that. You could
you could sense that when you watch that episode, I
did feel like it's in terms of, like say to
Bash at the Beach episode, you could tell there was
a little more of a neutral We're telling both sides
and listen, there's a lot of conflicting stories on things,
and we'd love to have you back at some point
and maybe talk a little bit about that. But you
can see the difference in the tone of how that
(57:59):
episod So it went where it wasn't pinted at you.
You versus Bischoff, so to speak, right, it was a
little bit more of we're going to tell our the story.
But this was awesome, man. We I'm so glad that
we got to have you on these last two weeks.
I mean what, we booked this like a month and
a half ago, so what an important two weeks to
end up having you on here. But we would love
(58:21):
to have you back again at some point in the
new year, maybe WrestleMania time or some other time.
Speaker 2 (58:26):
But but again, we've been posting up.
Speaker 3 (58:30):
We talked a lot about it, JCW and all that,
but tell us again where we can find.
Speaker 1 (58:34):
Hey, guys, I want to tell you this because I
on one of my shows today I watched and I've
seen it about three times. I've watched Tony Khan on
the Aerial Hawani show. Guys, I am not going to
sit here and pull a Tony Khan and say, guys,
(58:57):
watch Wednesday night, we did a great show and so
and so had a great match, and then next Monday
we got this and this is gonna be a great show. No,
I'm not gonna do that. Here's what I'm going to do.
Here's what I'm going to do. I'm gonna ask you
to watch two episodes. And these are not two and
a half three hour shows. There may be an hour
and twenty minutes. I am going to ask you to
(59:20):
watch two episodes, and you know what, bro in those
two episodes, We're either gonna hook you or you're gonna
turn it off. And that's fine. All I ask is
that I've been hearing for twenty five years, what happened
to sports entertainment? What happened to the attitude era? What
(59:40):
happened to crash TV. It's on Thursday nights at seven
o'clock Eastern on JCW Lunacy. But here's the bottom line.
If you guys don't watch it, and you guys don't
try it out, it's gonna go way. I mean, I mean,
it's that simple. And I'm not gonna sit here and
tell you how great it is. I put my money
(01:00:01):
where my mouthits. So all I'm gonna ask you to do.
There is a brand new episode on Thursday. Uh, just
go on YouTube JCW Lunacy when seven o'clock Eastern, and
I'm always in the chat room for the first viewing
of the show. I'm always in the chat room. But
that's all I ask guys, check it out and watch it,
(01:00:23):
and we're either gonna hook you or we're not. It's
really that simple.
Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
Which is awesome that you do.
Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
You go in, you live chat with people and talk
about the show, which is not something that we can say.
You know, it's not a tweet like you see from
TK or you know it's it's it's awesome. And that's
that's some of the kind of experience I think that
a lot of wrestling fans want, and and and it's
a unique thing. Also, we can find you at Patreon.
Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
Yeah, that's awesome. Thanks for putting that up. Guys. If
you've never been a brand member, we give you a
free week man, no strings attached, free week of the brand.
You go to patreon dot com fo it's the last
free so TWC. Yeah, if you like it and you
want to subscribe, Bro, it's only three bucks a month.
It literally seventy five cents a week. But you know,
my father always taught me, bro and something's free, take it,
(01:01:11):
so at least go get you a free week. You'll
get a week of shows. Bro, it won't cost you anything.
Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
Yeah, make sure you guys do good on check it out.
I mean Vince's and check out all the shows coaching, bro.
I mean, you're doing such good stuff, I'm telling you,
and I'm not just blowing smoke up your ass either.
You know, it's been a while, honestly, outside of certain
things like Dark Side of the Ring, where I've really
focused in on a lot of your material, and I've
really made it a point to over the last two
(01:01:39):
or three months, which is why I said we got
to get we gotta have them on. You're just such
an honest guy and whether whether you're everybody's flavor or not,
you don't. You stay true to yourself and that's something
to be commended. And again, you know what, listen over
the last week, I think a lot of things where
people might have said Vince Bruzo's full of shit. I
think after Sadday Night a lot I saw it with
(01:02:02):
my own eyes. A lot of people said, maybe the
guy doesn't get a lot enough credit for a lot
of the things that he says. So we appreciate what
you're doing. I'm glad to see you back in pro wrestling.
We hope to talk to you again. But in the meantime, brother,
best of luck to you at everything with J c
W looking forward to following it. Have a wonderful holiday,
(01:02:22):
Merry Christmas.
Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
Man. I appreciate Man. I had a great time the
last couple of weeks Man, and I really do appreciate
you guys having me on.
Speaker 3 (01:02:29):
Man anytime, brother anytime, but for myself, for Eric who
jumped off, for Vince, for tom Marknoon, godfather of a
two D radio, and everybody out there, for our doctor,
doctor Paul Vitel especialized physicotherapy. Make sure you guys get
out there. If there's somebody that you love, make sure
you give them a hug, telling me you love them.
And until next week, we'll talk to you guys soon.
Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
Go birds.
Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
Five
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