February 11, 2025 • 22 mins
Leaving Lothal Alone.
Join Matt & John as they try to solve and unanswered question left from Star Wars Rebels: Why DIDN’T the Galactic Empire exact revenge on Lothal? Was Palpatine afraid? Was the bureaucracy inefficient? Was the Empire distracted?
Plus they have a free bit of advice for Disney+ to permanently woo subscribers back to the platform!
Host
John Mills and Matthew Rushing
Send us your feedback!
Twitter: @TheJediMasters
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheNerdParty/
Email: http://www.thenerdparty.com/contact
Subscribe in Apple Podcasts
Join Matt & John as they try to solve and unanswered question left from Star Wars Rebels: Why DIDN’T the Galactic Empire exact revenge on Lothal? Was Palpatine afraid? Was the bureaucracy inefficient? Was the Empire distracted?
Plus they have a free bit of advice for Disney+ to permanently woo subscribers back to the platform!
Host
John Mills and Matthew Rushing
Send us your feedback!
Twitter: @TheJediMasters
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheNerdParty/
Email: http://www.thenerdparty.com/contact
Subscribe in Apple Podcasts
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the ned Palty.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hi. This is Nick and Astasu, story editor on Star Wars,
the Clone Wars and Star Wars bad Batch, and you
are listening to Aggressive Negotiations.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
You have indeed landed at Aggressive Negotiations your stop in
the Star Wars galaxy. That is your gateway to all
of the things that you wanted to ask but maybe
we're afraid to or maybe just never realize that other
people out there are thinking them too. I'm Jedi Master
John Mills. I'm a humble host here on Aggressive Negotiations,
and joining me on this journey of discovery is the
(00:45):
illustrious Jedi Master Matthew Rushing. Matt, we have one hum
dinger of a topic tonight that I can't believe we
haven't hit on before. Are you ready to dive deep
and really get at the core of a question that's
never been answered in Star Wars lore?
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Well, I totally am.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
You know, I'm glad everybody's listening before we hit our topic.
Just to remind everybody, you know, you can follow us
over there on the old social media's.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Like ex Twitter.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
We're at the Jedi Masters, the entire network at Joint
Nerd Party We're on Facebook, Facebook, dot com, slash nerd Party.
We're on Instagram at the nerd Party in nerd Party
dot com. You can find us as well with all
the shows going on there on the network, So we
hope everybody will join us there. So, John, what is
this most excellent topic?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Well, I just finished rewatching Star Wars Rebels. It's my
third view through, I guess by this point or so,
you know, just like a beginning to finish view through.
I was introducing my youngest to it, and she took
to it. It's proven to be her gateway drug to
Star Wars finally, and so that's that's been a fun thing.
(01:58):
But I have you now, Yeah, right, But that beautiful
moment at the end where we get the little epilogue,
the coda where Sabine is narrating that you know how
things are after Ezra and Thron have disappeared with the Pergol,
and in that epilogue she says the Empire never came
(02:23):
back to Lothal, never acted in retribution for what had happened. Now,
given that we know that Rebels ends one full year
before the Battle of Yavin the original Star Wars, I
just wanted to ask why do you think the Empire
(02:44):
never came back and smashed lethal So.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
My first thought is that with Thron being a Grand
Admiral and having his own fleet, that means that, you know,
he kind of has his own preview of what he
wants to do and where he wants to go. And
does that necessarily mean that he is always reporting in
(03:10):
as to where he is and what he's doing and why.
So I'm wondering, does Thwan go to La Thal with
his fleet and then he just disappears and nobody in
the Empire really knows where or why. And then of course,
you know, you think a year later, you know, you
(03:32):
have the first death Star destroyed, and it does seem
as though the Empire gets very fixated on destroying this
rebellion and so a lost grand admiral and you know,
his own mini fleet doesn't seem to be the top
on their priority list of you know, what to find,
(03:54):
And so to me, that's the first thing that kind
of pops into my mind as to why l Thal.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Is safe.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Also, you know, the thought was the was the place
where Thron was, you know, doing his tie Defender project,
right and so, and that never took off with the
Empire either. So it's like I feel like the Empire
(04:26):
just kind of chalks it up to, ah, well that
was a loss. We move on, you know, because it's
like one grand admiral, you know, we got we got dozens, Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
I mean I would think that the Empire would have
the bureaucratic machine of the Empire would have been hardwired
to punish a system that had gotten out of line
as badly as Lothal did. Like, in my head, they
have a military that it wouldn't take tremendous effort for
them to come back and smack with all around. Sure,
(05:01):
Now the counterpoint piggybacking off what you're talking about there,
the Empire might have been afraid to come back to
Lethal because their greatest strategists, their greatest tactician, their greatest
grand admiral disappears and he's gone, and that's got to
be terrifying. Like you could almost see a comedy routine
(05:23):
of Oh, who's going to go find Grand Admiral Throng,
Who's going to go to Lethal? No, I have an assignment,
I got it. I can't go there. Oh no, my
start destroyer is getting cleaned that day. I can't make it.
But joking aside, you have something else, I think, because
while you were talking this sort of popped in my head.
Let me ask you a series of questions here. The
(05:44):
Empire is an extension of whose will, of whose desires?
Sidious right h with thal happens. He's tried to bait
Ezra into turning to the dark side, It's true, yeah,
and failed. Yes, And we can easily see that as
(06:05):
that dysfunctional sith thing where he sees Ezra as a
potential way to destroy Vader, who's a disappointment as an apprentice,
and take his rightful place. But then the Emperor realizes,
especially after the Battle of Yavin, what does he realize?
(06:26):
What does he find out? What a Vader and the
Emperor find out Luke? Yeah, do you think it's as
simple as lethal? Was a loss? Ezra cost them throng?
The planet itself was not a great threat after that,
and their focus simply was Luke, and so it wasn't
(06:48):
worth their time. They had a better spend of resources.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
You know, it's funny because as you were saying that,
I was like, well, I that makes sense, because you know,
what is Palpatine really care about Palpatine's machinations are really
all about him finding a way to keep his own power.
And so therefore, yes, with Ezra gone and then Luke
popping up his his goals do seem to shift in
(07:19):
the sense of I'm not here building the empire anymore.
I'm not even trying to maintain necessarily empire anymore. I'm
trying to make sure that my reign lasts forever, and
the best way to do that is through making sure
that I have an apprentice that is better than Vader.
And you know, who knows where Ezra went, who knows
(07:43):
where Thron went, But it's not worth looking for him
when I've got this other dude who is super powerful
and I know it and I know their lineage, and
this could be the guy. I mean, this could be
you know, Vader two point zero, and that's really what
(08:03):
he wants. And so I think I think that really
hits on something there as to why Lathall then is saved,
and and it also goes to show too, it's like
by Ezra making the sacrificial choice that is part of
the salvation, because if he was still there, I can't
(08:26):
imagine Lathal survives.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
They keep coming, they keep coming after him, and ye yep.
And additionally, I mean, let's layer this one on. What
do they lose in the pursuit of Ezra. They lose
that Jedi temple that was a doorway to the world
between Worlds, which we know Palpatine desperately wants to get into.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yes he does, yep, So maybe they.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Look at it and again the Emperor runs the Empire.
My lord, we have to go and punish la Thal. No,
it's not worth our time, and it's literally not worth
his time because of one thing he was looking for.
There is gone forever besides Ezra. Even with Ezra out
of the mix. Yeah, there's no point. It's just over with.
(09:10):
So yeah, I mean, maybe it's just as straightforward as
Lethal just wasn't worth it. But let me layer one
last question on then, and this is the part where
if you've if you've hung with us, I'm gonna throw
the controversial question. The Rebel Alliance has scored its first
victory against the Empire in the title crawl of the
(09:31):
original Star Wars and then leader in Rogue one, we
see that victory. Yeah, why does Lethal not count as
the Rebel Alliance victory? Against the Empire.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
I think it's a victory, but it's also very small
regional victory. You know, it's one planet, right, but the
loss of the technological marvel that is the Death Star
looms large, right all pun intended, uh And so I
(10:08):
think what we see is that the victory on le
Thal does allow somebody like Hara then to be involved
with the rest of the rebellion for the rest of
the you know, it's time. We know that that Hara
was at Yavin because Chopper was there, and so was
(10:30):
the ghost at and Rogue one, and we heard her
name being called, you know, we we know that that
she was all over the place, right we and and
makes it all the way past Return of the Jedi.
And so I think in some ways that probably would
(10:50):
become a story that was told too people who are
joining the rebellion, or maybe they would have heard about
the victory on La Thal, right, and that would be
something that then they would be hopeful for for.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Their own planet one day.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
Obviously, the baseline answer is because we didn't know until
you know, But I do think lethal becomes one of
those stories then where people hear it and they're immediately
drawn to the idea of if they can do it,
then we can do it, but we do it together,
because that's kind of the story of rebels, right is
(11:32):
this band coming together and they defeat a larger force.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
That's what happens, you know.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Obviously in all of the Original Trilogy g movies and
all of the stories we've read that take place in
the Original Trilogy era. And so I think Leathal probably
in the Rebellion, would have become a story told, you know,
especially since Hara becomes a major leader in it.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
And so I mean, I think I think it is
as simple as that. It's that semantics thing which Star
Wars excels at. Yeah, from a certain point of view,
But I do think it boils down to something as
simple as the rebel Alliance proper did not send support
to lethal you hit on it. I think where it's
(12:28):
a regional victory. So there were little pockets of resistance
popping up everywhere, but there was a formal rebel alliance.
We never count any of saw Guerrera's victories because he's
not part of the rebel alliance. He's just saw Guerrera
doing his thang. Yes, and so yes, I think it
(12:52):
is like you said it's a regional victory. It's semantics
the rebel alliance proper. These were rebels, but it was
not the rebel ends. It was lethal itself that was
doing what needed to be done. Yeah, with a little
assistance from the force and some really awesome wolves and
one fantastic droid that I gotta tell you after this rewatch.
(13:16):
As much as I love R two and I will
always adore our two, Chopper will forever hold a number
one spot in my heart, at least for a time,
because Chopper is pretty awesome.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
The other I mean, I think the cool thing about
this is when you think about Lathol, you think about
its place in the history of the rebellion, it does
lead me to wonder, you know, what are all of
the other stories of the other regions, of the other
people who end up joining the rebellion, who are able
to be successful. And you know, because Lathal is one
(13:49):
small part of that story, right, they're one microcosm of
the larger saga that's happening at that point. And I
think that's a really neat thing. And it also just
kind of reminds us of the fact that, you know,
in history, there are all of these. You know, there
are major events that happen, right, but when you read
(14:12):
a history book, say about World War Two, or you
read a history book about the American Revolution or any
of these things, right, any of these major conflicts that
have happened around the world. There are major events, but
then there are all of the little events that lead
to the major events, and they're just as important in
(14:33):
the story as everything else. And so that's I think
the beauty of that as well is that it allows
us to have explored one of the facets that went
into beating the Empire. And it wasn't just you know,
Luke destroying the Death Star or what Princess Leah did
or Han did. It's all these other people, which you know,
(14:55):
I think is also the story that we're getting an
and or right, and what we got in Road one.
There are so many people that are involved in the
defeat of the Empire whose names we don't know and
we'll never know. In Star Wars, you know, when we
think of it as a true historical thing, which is
you know that with Lucas, you know, creating Star Wars
(15:18):
as it was as if you know, documentary type of
filmmaking like that I think that's just really cool, and
so I think it makes then it makes it really neat,
you know. And I think of Rebels in the fact
that it started off kind of and it felt like
(15:40):
very much a Disney mandated thing. They had their grip
on it, tight of what they wanted, and slowly but
surely it gets turned into something that becomes pivotal and meaningful.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Core piece of law exactly, absolutely core piece of low.
And I couldn't be more delighted that if you had
given me a time machine and you go back to
when Rebels premieres, because I remember when it premiered and
you said, this is going to be somebody's gateway to
Star Wars, this is what's going to help make them
(16:16):
even if it's a casual fan, a fan of some sort,
I would have laughed at you. Yeah, I would have
been so skeptical, like, please, that's not even I've did,
you know, for Pete's sake, Like these characters are obviously
just drawn from the original sketches and stuff like that.
And now I wasn't showing outward disrespect to Rebels on
that level. I'm exaggerating for effect, But I think the
(16:40):
simple fact that rebels itself, which is a property people
might forget. It is a property that people were not
in the fan base in love with at first. Just
like while she's a treasured character now people had a
lot of trouble with Ahsoka and get them used to
her at first. It's just you just turning up the
(17:02):
temperature just a little bit. You just let people get there,
You show them the way with good storytelling, and they'll
get there. And I'm just delighted actually that this is
a discussion about rebels because it's been a decade and
here we are, we're talking about it. Because it winds
(17:22):
up that it's peaked Star Wars in a lot of ways. Yeah,
and so grateful for it that in its four seasons,
four short seasons, it made this type of impact on
the storytelling and the fan base and then winds up
opening everything up so that we can jump past Return
of the Jedi to explore Ahsoka and the world between
(17:44):
Worlds and Anakin's ghost.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yes, I mean, come on, yeah, all right, man, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
I mean, I think you just said it so well
on One of the things that I think we hit
on so much in the show, and we do it
on purpose, is because the animation is a core part
of Star Wars storytelling and it deserves more respect.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
It does not deserve to be the Rodney Dangerfield of
Star Wars. And because it's not, because, like you said,
Rebels has added core parts of the saga. Clone Wars
did that, Bad Batch has done that, you know. And
so these shows, I mean, you know, uh tells the Empire,
(18:30):
tells the Jedi.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
These are all things to which are telling good, important stories.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
And it deserves our respect and it deserves our love.
And so yeah, I mean, here's to hoping that you know,
we get more uh Star Wars animation and that they
finally give us the animation we don't have yet on
home release in four K.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
So yeah, four K, four k UHD discs please, you
know what, In fact, let me pitch this idea on
our way out the door. Disney Plus, you want to
win back a ton of subscribers. You get one free
home video release in four K each year. You give
a little gift to people for being on there, Like
(19:17):
make it a certain tier where it's like, oh you
know what, you pay an extra five bucks you're in
this tier. I mean, the Star Wars fan club used
to do that. I used to get little little gifts
in the mail every so often that were just like, hey,
thanks for being a fan. It's like, yep, well got.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Maybe you make it something that you can only buy
through the Disney Plus store.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Exactly right.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
You got to be subscribed to be a part of
Disney Plus Store. I'm just saying, you know.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Well, just like that's how That's how Target got my
Episode two soundtrack money was there. There was a track
actually one of the best tracks from the entire score
the Factory Adventure, like the score, the original score. It
was on the Target edition of the soundtrack, and I
was like, well, I love that track. Of course I'm
going to buy that. I loved listening to it because kids,
(20:03):
you couldn't always stream that easily. Just gonna put that
out there.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
It was true.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
It was very difficult. Don't come at me with that
naster nonsense. The compression rates were terrible on there. It's
just dumb. But anyway, Matt, you know, if people want
to talk about anything from compression rates to their own
thoughts about why the empire left with all alone, where
can they find you online?
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Yeah, hit me up on social media. If I'm on
the platform, you'll find me on the name Matt Rushing
zero two. You also find me, of course here on
the network with a completed show called Owlpost about every
single chapter the Harry Potter series. You also find me
over on the TFM network with the six of two Club,
which is a general geek show talking about all of
the franchises we love, and a lot of great star
(20:45):
trek talk over there as well. So I hope that
you will look that up over at trek dot FM.
But John, if people wanted to catch up with you
and see how you're doing, and maybe you know how
you're a luthel is doing your loath cat where people
find you.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
You know, loath cats are awesome. But I can tell
you that my daughter and I both love loath wolves too. Really, yes,
I want a loath wolf. Don't want to bite me though,
a little scared of that part of it. But you
can find me out there musing about such adorable creatures
and powerful creatures as Kessel Junkie on your social network
(21:25):
of choice. I'm not on many of them. Just look
for me if I'm there, love to talk to you,
And of course you can find me here on the
Network where I am one of three hosts on a
show called house Lights, where we look at the work
of directors and sometimes we torture each other with directors
that we don't all love, but we also delight each
(21:47):
other with directors that we learn to love along the way.
So why don't you join us over there. We have
a lot of fun. But Master Rushing, I gotta tell you,
I have found that the Temple Archives have actually located
four K discs of the original episodes of That's Just Palpatine,
the hit comedy show. So let's go spin that player up.
(22:11):
I think it's time to close these.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
Negotiations, John, negotiations are closed.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Join the Revolution, Join the Nerd Party.
Welcome to the ned Palty.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hi. This is Nick and Astasu, story editor on Star Wars,
the Clone Wars and Star Wars bad Batch, and you
are listening to Aggressive Negotiations.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
You have indeed landed at Aggressive Negotiations your stop in
the Star Wars galaxy. That is your gateway to all
of the things that you wanted to ask but maybe
we're afraid to or maybe just never realize that other
people out there are thinking them too. I'm Jedi Master
John Mills. I'm a humble host here on Aggressive Negotiations,
and joining me on this journey of discovery is the
(00:45):
illustrious Jedi Master Matthew Rushing. Matt, we have one hum
dinger of a topic tonight that I can't believe we
haven't hit on before. Are you ready to dive deep
and really get at the core of a question that's
never been answered in Star Wars lore?
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Well, I totally am.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
You know, I'm glad everybody's listening before we hit our topic.
Just to remind everybody, you know, you can follow us
over there on the old social media's.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Like ex Twitter.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
We're at the Jedi Masters, the entire network at Joint
Nerd Party We're on Facebook, Facebook, dot com, slash nerd Party.
We're on Instagram at the nerd Party in nerd Party
dot com. You can find us as well with all
the shows going on there on the network, So we
hope everybody will join us there. So, John, what is
this most excellent topic?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Well, I just finished rewatching Star Wars Rebels. It's my
third view through, I guess by this point or so,
you know, just like a beginning to finish view through.
I was introducing my youngest to it, and she took
to it. It's proven to be her gateway drug to
Star Wars finally, and so that's that's been a fun thing.
(01:58):
But I have you now, Yeah, right, But that beautiful
moment at the end where we get the little epilogue,
the coda where Sabine is narrating that you know how
things are after Ezra and Thron have disappeared with the Pergol,
and in that epilogue she says the Empire never came
(02:23):
back to Lothal, never acted in retribution for what had happened. Now,
given that we know that Rebels ends one full year
before the Battle of Yavin the original Star Wars, I
just wanted to ask why do you think the Empire
(02:44):
never came back and smashed lethal So.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
My first thought is that with Thron being a Grand
Admiral and having his own fleet, that means that, you know,
he kind of has his own preview of what he
wants to do and where he wants to go. And
does that necessarily mean that he is always reporting in
(03:10):
as to where he is and what he's doing and why.
So I'm wondering, does Thwan go to La Thal with
his fleet and then he just disappears and nobody in
the Empire really knows where or why. And then of course,
you know, you think a year later, you know, you
(03:32):
have the first death Star destroyed, and it does seem
as though the Empire gets very fixated on destroying this
rebellion and so a lost grand admiral and you know,
his own mini fleet doesn't seem to be the top
on their priority list of you know, what to find,
(03:54):
And so to me, that's the first thing that kind
of pops into my mind as to why l Thal.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Is safe.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Also, you know, the thought was the was the place
where Thron was, you know, doing his tie Defender project,
right and so, and that never took off with the
Empire either. So it's like I feel like the Empire
(04:26):
just kind of chalks it up to, ah, well that
was a loss. We move on, you know, because it's
like one grand admiral, you know, we got we got dozens, Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
I mean I would think that the Empire would have
the bureaucratic machine of the Empire would have been hardwired
to punish a system that had gotten out of line
as badly as Lothal did. Like, in my head, they
have a military that it wouldn't take tremendous effort for
them to come back and smack with all around. Sure,
(05:01):
Now the counterpoint piggybacking off what you're talking about there,
the Empire might have been afraid to come back to
Lethal because their greatest strategists, their greatest tactician, their greatest
grand admiral disappears and he's gone, and that's got to
be terrifying. Like you could almost see a comedy routine
(05:23):
of Oh, who's going to go find Grand Admiral Throng,
Who's going to go to Lethal? No, I have an assignment,
I got it. I can't go there. Oh no, my
start destroyer is getting cleaned that day. I can't make it.
But joking aside, you have something else, I think, because
while you were talking this sort of popped in my head.
Let me ask you a series of questions here. The
(05:44):
Empire is an extension of whose will, of whose desires?
Sidious right h with thal happens. He's tried to bait
Ezra into turning to the dark side, It's true, yeah,
and failed. Yes, And we can easily see that as
(06:05):
that dysfunctional sith thing where he sees Ezra as a
potential way to destroy Vader, who's a disappointment as an apprentice,
and take his rightful place. But then the Emperor realizes,
especially after the Battle of Yavin, what does he realize?
(06:26):
What does he find out? What a Vader and the
Emperor find out Luke? Yeah, do you think it's as
simple as lethal? Was a loss? Ezra cost them throng?
The planet itself was not a great threat after that,
and their focus simply was Luke, and so it wasn't
(06:48):
worth their time. They had a better spend of resources.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
You know, it's funny because as you were saying that,
I was like, well, I that makes sense, because you know,
what is Palpatine really care about Palpatine's machinations are really
all about him finding a way to keep his own power.
And so therefore, yes, with Ezra gone and then Luke
popping up his his goals do seem to shift in
(07:19):
the sense of I'm not here building the empire anymore.
I'm not even trying to maintain necessarily empire anymore. I'm
trying to make sure that my reign lasts forever, and
the best way to do that is through making sure
that I have an apprentice that is better than Vader.
And you know, who knows where Ezra went, who knows
(07:43):
where Thron went, But it's not worth looking for him
when I've got this other dude who is super powerful
and I know it and I know their lineage, and
this could be the guy. I mean, this could be
you know, Vader two point zero, and that's really what
(08:03):
he wants. And so I think I think that really
hits on something there as to why Lathall then is saved,
and and it also goes to show too, it's like
by Ezra making the sacrificial choice that is part of
the salvation, because if he was still there, I can't
(08:26):
imagine Lathal survives.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
They keep coming, they keep coming after him, and ye yep.
And additionally, I mean, let's layer this one on. What
do they lose in the pursuit of Ezra. They lose
that Jedi temple that was a doorway to the world
between Worlds, which we know Palpatine desperately wants to get into.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yes he does, yep, So maybe they.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Look at it and again the Emperor runs the Empire.
My lord, we have to go and punish la Thal. No,
it's not worth our time, and it's literally not worth
his time because of one thing he was looking for.
There is gone forever besides Ezra. Even with Ezra out
of the mix. Yeah, there's no point. It's just over with.
(09:10):
So yeah, I mean, maybe it's just as straightforward as
Lethal just wasn't worth it. But let me layer one
last question on then, and this is the part where
if you've if you've hung with us, I'm gonna throw
the controversial question. The Rebel Alliance has scored its first
victory against the Empire in the title crawl of the
(09:31):
original Star Wars and then leader in Rogue one, we
see that victory. Yeah, why does Lethal not count as
the Rebel Alliance victory? Against the Empire.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
I think it's a victory, but it's also very small
regional victory. You know, it's one planet, right, but the
loss of the technological marvel that is the Death Star
looms large, right all pun intended, uh And so I
(10:08):
think what we see is that the victory on le
Thal does allow somebody like Hara then to be involved
with the rest of the rebellion for the rest of
the you know, it's time. We know that that Hara
was at Yavin because Chopper was there, and so was
(10:30):
the ghost at and Rogue one, and we heard her
name being called, you know, we we know that that
she was all over the place, right we and and
makes it all the way past Return of the Jedi.
And so I think in some ways that probably would
(10:50):
become a story that was told too people who are
joining the rebellion, or maybe they would have heard about
the victory on La Thal, right, and that would be
something that then they would be hopeful for for.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Their own planet one day.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
Obviously, the baseline answer is because we didn't know until
you know, But I do think lethal becomes one of
those stories then where people hear it and they're immediately
drawn to the idea of if they can do it,
then we can do it, but we do it together,
because that's kind of the story of rebels, right is
(11:32):
this band coming together and they defeat a larger force.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
That's what happens, you know.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Obviously in all of the Original Trilogy g movies and
all of the stories we've read that take place in
the Original Trilogy era. And so I think Leathal probably
in the Rebellion, would have become a story told, you know,
especially since Hara becomes a major leader in it.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
And so I mean, I think I think it is
as simple as that. It's that semantics thing which Star
Wars excels at. Yeah, from a certain point of view,
But I do think it boils down to something as
simple as the rebel Alliance proper did not send support
to lethal you hit on it. I think where it's
(12:28):
a regional victory. So there were little pockets of resistance
popping up everywhere, but there was a formal rebel alliance.
We never count any of saw Guerrera's victories because he's
not part of the rebel alliance. He's just saw Guerrera
doing his thang. Yes, and so yes, I think it
(12:52):
is like you said it's a regional victory. It's semantics
the rebel alliance proper. These were rebels, but it was
not the rebel ends. It was lethal itself that was
doing what needed to be done. Yeah, with a little
assistance from the force and some really awesome wolves and
one fantastic droid that I gotta tell you after this rewatch.
(13:16):
As much as I love R two and I will
always adore our two, Chopper will forever hold a number
one spot in my heart, at least for a time,
because Chopper is pretty awesome.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
The other I mean, I think the cool thing about
this is when you think about Lathol, you think about
its place in the history of the rebellion, it does
lead me to wonder, you know, what are all of
the other stories of the other regions, of the other
people who end up joining the rebellion, who are able
to be successful. And you know, because Lathal is one
(13:49):
small part of that story, right, they're one microcosm of
the larger saga that's happening at that point. And I
think that's a really neat thing. And it also just
kind of reminds us of the fact that, you know,
in history, there are all of these. You know, there
are major events that happen, right, but when you read
(14:12):
a history book, say about World War Two, or you
read a history book about the American Revolution or any
of these things, right, any of these major conflicts that
have happened around the world. There are major events, but
then there are all of the little events that lead
to the major events, and they're just as important in
(14:33):
the story as everything else. And so that's I think
the beauty of that as well is that it allows
us to have explored one of the facets that went
into beating the Empire. And it wasn't just you know,
Luke destroying the Death Star or what Princess Leah did
or Han did. It's all these other people, which you know,
(14:55):
I think is also the story that we're getting an
and or right, and what we got in Road one.
There are so many people that are involved in the
defeat of the Empire whose names we don't know and
we'll never know. In Star Wars, you know, when we
think of it as a true historical thing, which is
you know that with Lucas, you know, creating Star Wars
(15:18):
as it was as if you know, documentary type of
filmmaking like that I think that's just really cool, and
so I think it makes then it makes it really neat,
you know. And I think of Rebels in the fact
that it started off kind of and it felt like
(15:40):
very much a Disney mandated thing. They had their grip
on it, tight of what they wanted, and slowly but
surely it gets turned into something that becomes pivotal and meaningful.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Core piece of law exactly, absolutely core piece of low.
And I couldn't be more delighted that if you had
given me a time machine and you go back to
when Rebels premieres, because I remember when it premiered and
you said, this is going to be somebody's gateway to
Star Wars, this is what's going to help make them
(16:16):
even if it's a casual fan, a fan of some sort,
I would have laughed at you. Yeah, I would have
been so skeptical, like, please, that's not even I've did,
you know, for Pete's sake, Like these characters are obviously
just drawn from the original sketches and stuff like that.
And now I wasn't showing outward disrespect to Rebels on
that level. I'm exaggerating for effect, But I think the
(16:40):
simple fact that rebels itself, which is a property people
might forget. It is a property that people were not
in the fan base in love with at first. Just
like while she's a treasured character now people had a
lot of trouble with Ahsoka and get them used to
her at first. It's just you just turning up the
(17:02):
temperature just a little bit. You just let people get there,
You show them the way with good storytelling, and they'll
get there. And I'm just delighted actually that this is
a discussion about rebels because it's been a decade and
here we are, we're talking about it. Because it winds
(17:22):
up that it's peaked Star Wars in a lot of ways. Yeah,
and so grateful for it that in its four seasons,
four short seasons, it made this type of impact on
the storytelling and the fan base and then winds up
opening everything up so that we can jump past Return
of the Jedi to explore Ahsoka and the world between
(17:44):
Worlds and Anakin's ghost.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yes, I mean, come on, yeah, all right, man, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
I mean, I think you just said it so well
on One of the things that I think we hit
on so much in the show, and we do it
on purpose, is because the animation is a core part
of Star Wars storytelling and it deserves more respect.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
It does not deserve to be the Rodney Dangerfield of
Star Wars. And because it's not, because, like you said,
Rebels has added core parts of the saga. Clone Wars
did that, Bad Batch has done that, you know. And
so these shows, I mean, you know, uh tells the Empire,
(18:30):
tells the Jedi.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
These are all things to which are telling good, important stories.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
And it deserves our respect and it deserves our love.
And so yeah, I mean, here's to hoping that you know,
we get more uh Star Wars animation and that they
finally give us the animation we don't have yet on
home release in four K.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
So yeah, four K, four k UHD discs please, you
know what, In fact, let me pitch this idea on
our way out the door. Disney Plus, you want to
win back a ton of subscribers. You get one free
home video release in four K each year. You give
a little gift to people for being on there, Like
(19:17):
make it a certain tier where it's like, oh you
know what, you pay an extra five bucks you're in
this tier. I mean, the Star Wars fan club used
to do that. I used to get little little gifts
in the mail every so often that were just like, hey,
thanks for being a fan. It's like, yep, well got.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Maybe you make it something that you can only buy
through the Disney Plus store.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Exactly right.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
You got to be subscribed to be a part of
Disney Plus Store. I'm just saying, you know.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Well, just like that's how That's how Target got my
Episode two soundtrack money was there. There was a track
actually one of the best tracks from the entire score
the Factory Adventure, like the score, the original score. It
was on the Target edition of the soundtrack, and I
was like, well, I love that track. Of course I'm
going to buy that. I loved listening to it because kids,
(20:03):
you couldn't always stream that easily. Just gonna put that
out there.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
It was true.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
It was very difficult. Don't come at me with that
naster nonsense. The compression rates were terrible on there. It's
just dumb. But anyway, Matt, you know, if people want
to talk about anything from compression rates to their own
thoughts about why the empire left with all alone, where
can they find you online?
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Yeah, hit me up on social media. If I'm on
the platform, you'll find me on the name Matt Rushing
zero two. You also find me, of course here on
the network with a completed show called Owlpost about every
single chapter the Harry Potter series. You also find me
over on the TFM network with the six of two Club,
which is a general geek show talking about all of
the franchises we love, and a lot of great star
(20:45):
trek talk over there as well. So I hope that
you will look that up over at trek dot FM.
But John, if people wanted to catch up with you
and see how you're doing, and maybe you know how
you're a luthel is doing your loath cat where people
find you.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
You know, loath cats are awesome. But I can tell
you that my daughter and I both love loath wolves too. Really, yes,
I want a loath wolf. Don't want to bite me though,
a little scared of that part of it. But you
can find me out there musing about such adorable creatures
and powerful creatures as Kessel Junkie on your social network
(21:25):
of choice. I'm not on many of them. Just look
for me if I'm there, love to talk to you,
And of course you can find me here on the
Network where I am one of three hosts on a
show called house Lights, where we look at the work
of directors and sometimes we torture each other with directors
that we don't all love, but we also delight each
(21:47):
other with directors that we learn to love along the way.
So why don't you join us over there. We have
a lot of fun. But Master Rushing, I gotta tell you,
I have found that the Temple Archives have actually located
four K discs of the original episodes of That's Just Palpatine,
the hit comedy show. So let's go spin that player up.
(22:11):
I think it's time to close these.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
Negotiations, John, negotiations are closed.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Join the Revolution, Join the Nerd Party.
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