February 18, 2025 • 23 mins
Can Clones Be Jedi?
Inspired by a new Star Wars: The Clone Wars rewatch, John surprises Matt with a core question spurred by Yoda’s declaration that all life, even clones, are unique beings within the Force. Given that George Lucas himself said that midichlorian count alone didn’t determine if someone could learn to be a Force user, and that the first time the comics ever resurrected Palpatine was through cloning, they tackle this ultimate question:
Could a Clone become a Jedi? Why…or Why Not?
Host
John Mills and Matthew Rushing
Love listening to Aggressive Negotiations, a Star Wars podcast that’s different from all the rest? Then you’ll love The Nerd Party, a one-of-a-kind podcast network focused on all the best of Star Trek, the magical realm of the Harry Potter books, the works of the best film directors in history, the latest from international film and comic stars, and so much more!
Send us your feedback!
Twitter: @TheJediMasters
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheNerdParty/
Email: http://www.thenerdparty.com/contact
Subscribe in Apple Podcasts
Inspired by a new Star Wars: The Clone Wars rewatch, John surprises Matt with a core question spurred by Yoda’s declaration that all life, even clones, are unique beings within the Force. Given that George Lucas himself said that midichlorian count alone didn’t determine if someone could learn to be a Force user, and that the first time the comics ever resurrected Palpatine was through cloning, they tackle this ultimate question:
Could a Clone become a Jedi? Why…or Why Not?
Host
John Mills and Matthew Rushing
Love listening to Aggressive Negotiations, a Star Wars podcast that’s different from all the rest? Then you’ll love The Nerd Party, a one-of-a-kind podcast network focused on all the best of Star Trek, the magical realm of the Harry Potter books, the works of the best film directors in history, the latest from international film and comic stars, and so much more!
Send us your feedback!
Twitter: @TheJediMasters
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheNerdParty/
Email: http://www.thenerdparty.com/contact
Subscribe in Apple Podcasts
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the ned Palty.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hi. This is Nick and Astasu, story editor on Star Wars,
the Clone Wars and Star Wars bad Batch, and you
are listening to Aggressive Negotiations.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
We welcome you back to Aggressive Negotiations, the Star Wars
podcast here on the Nerd Party Network that explores all
of the different regions and nooks and crannies and whatever
else you want to call a crevis in a galactic map.
I am one of your hosts, Jedi Master John Mills,
and I'm joined once again by my dear friend, Jedi
Master Matthew Rushing. Matt, I have a surprise topic for you.
(00:46):
The listeners of this show are big fans of the
surprise topics, and I want to know, are you well.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I'm a big fan of you stopping getting us caught
in the crevice of another spaceworm. So can you please
can we please stop exploring those crevices because the mine
ox in here keep eating the power cables on our
ship and I'm really frustrated, and so yes, fire away
with your surprise topic, but can we just get out
(01:15):
of here.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
We can get out of here, but on the condition
that people fire away their reviews over on Apple Podcasts
and let us know what they think of the show.
We do this for the love of the game. Give
us a review for the love of the show. And
of course you can find us over on the socials
at the Jedi Masters on ex Twitter, the Nerd Party
on Facebook and Instagram, and at Join nerd Party on
ex Twitter. So here's the surprise topic. As everybody knows,
(01:39):
my youngest loves Rebels. Chopper is her favorite droid, and
I think maybe Chopper might be mine too. So the
next logical step was, well, you know, there's a delightful
little show called The Clone Wars. You want to give
that a try, And we've been easing into it and
she's been taking to it, and like all sane and
rational people, we jump around watched the episodes in a
(02:01):
jumble as they were released, and we very recently got
to the first aired episode, Ambush, featuring Yoda and the
three Clones battling the Droid Army to try to get
to King Katunko of the toy Darians. At one point
during that show, Yoda sits down, has the Clones take
off their helmets and says to them, you think you
(02:23):
look the same, But in the Force. Everybody is their
own person, and it made me think for a second.
George Lucas himself said Midchlorians alone were not the determinant
factor of whether you were a Jedi. People misinterpreted Midchlorians
that think you had to have a certain score like
an sat to become a Jedi. He's like, no, anybody
(02:45):
can become a Jedi. It's just easier for some people
than others. And of course, you know, the Mediclorians are
also a vehicle for talking about the prophecy conceived by
the Force, that sort of thing. So I was thinking
to myself, if that's so, if all living beings have
the Force in them, is it possible that a clone
of their own accord could become a Jedi.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
I think that's a really interesting question. You know, it
makes me think of then, you know, you would kind
of look to a Jango fet as because you know,
all their DNA comes from him, and and they're all
clones of him, and of course even you know they're
(03:28):
they're augmented by the Caminoans. But you know, whether or
not Django kind of ever exhibited any forced sensitivity, you know,
And yes, you know, George talks about the idea that yes,
you know, if you really put in enough dedication, you
(03:50):
could become some semblance of a Jedi.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Right.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
You may never be the world's strongest Jedi, you could
probably do it. I think we see that kind of
play out in the Ahsoka series with Sabine and her journey.
The hard thing about this, though, is is that you know,
I think a clone would have been had to have
been given the time and the place to even try that.
(04:17):
And you know, as watching as we watched through the
Clone Wars, you get the episodes that there's very few
of them where clones don't just do the job that
they're given, you know, because they are so programmed. You
get the deserter where that happens.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
And so.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
I wonder if, because of the augmentation for personality that
was given to the clones, if that wouldn't have made
it very very, very difficult, nine near impossible for a
Clone to kind of reach out in that way, because
(05:00):
they wouldn't have even just had to desire. And that
seems like that would be the first step towards that
very long journey of somebody working towards being a Jedi
in the first place.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Sure, I agree that it's a question of perception. Where
the clones are raised, they're given subliminal messaging from inside
the Kresh, they are continually bombarded with lessons, they're growth accelerated,
they're all of these things. They are conditioned. They are
(05:37):
born to kill and serve the Republic. But within that
question of will, there's still the capability. And I would
point to actually, I'll bring it back to Jango fet
what do we see that's a core difference between Django
(05:57):
and obi Wan. For instance, in episode two, obi Wan
flies with a droid to get you know, and he
has now, yes, I know that there's a functional aspect
of it. He needs somebody to talk to, so he's
not just talking to himself while he's flying the fighter.
All of that stuff, say take that out of it.
Django flies through the rings above Geonosis on his own,
(06:20):
whereas obi Wan says flying is for droids, not because
Jedi can't fly, but even they have a little droid
copilot that goes with them. Jango has a natural aptitude
and so my counter would be a hunting like Han
Solo does. But that even speaks to a mindset thing.
(06:41):
It's that inculcation of the clones are raised to be
very materialist. I concede that point, but you could if
you found one like the Deserter who is more open
to the idea of a different type of life and mindset.
I think it's possible that you could have somebody trained up.
(07:01):
I agree they'll never be Anakin Skywalker, but considering Jedi,
according to the lure established by Lucas himself as well,
the Jedi existed before knowledge of the Medichlorians even existed.
It was a monastic order, it was a lifestyle. It
was a communing with the force sort of thing, as
(07:23):
opposed to the warriors that we encounter near the end
of the Golden Age in the prequels.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Another question that I would think might have an implication
on whether or not this would be possible. I immediately
think of the idea of does the growth acceleration that
all clones are given do something to their physiology which
(07:51):
would also make this more difficult for them, because it's
not a truly natural in the same way in which
you know, we know Anakin Skywalker was never as strong
as he was beforehand because he had started to lose
parts of his body when you know he had the
(08:14):
fight with Obu and Kenobi and what that did to him.
And so because of that that natural connection to the
force being about one's actual natural nature, does this type
of manipulation have an impact on the relationship between you know,
(08:35):
any minicolorians a person would have in the first place,
and then therefore their connection with the force.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
I like where you're going with that. I think that
that growth acceleration would have a huge impact on how old,
quote unquote would a clone have to be in order
to even be open to this. So let me build
on what you're saying. Is saying a clone say episode
two era that comes out of the batch, No, I
(09:05):
don't think there's any chance. Their growth acceleration, combined with
their training, probably stunts their mental development in the sense
that they think a certain way and they don't have
life like they're intelligent and they're creative thinkers, but they're
creative thinkers within a certain problem solving mindset. But then
(09:30):
if you go down the line and you encounter somebody,
say one of the Batcher's or later on Rex after
the Clone wars are done, those are clones who have
had enough of an emotional and developmental arc to have
their those centers of their brains fully mature to the
(09:52):
point where they could consider the possibility of training. You know,
but there could be clones the same age that wouldn't
be able to do that because they just never got
to that point. Like I would argue, you could say
Rex yes, Cody no, because you look at where they
(10:13):
are in their development. Cody's able to follow Order sixty
six without without even blinking. Rex shows that development because
he's able to understand something's happening that he doesn't want
to do. So you have right there. Actually, if you
watch Episode three and The Phantom Apprentice side by side,
(10:34):
you see two clones of similar age and experience reacting
differently to Order sixty six.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Yeah, I mean, and I think a big part of that,
you know, it seems to come down to the Rex
is with obi Wan and Anakin for so long and
in their orbit, and then of course with Ahsoka. You know,
Cody seems to be a slight the newer addition to
obi Wan to orbit and therefore not quite as he
(11:10):
hasn't had the impact on the relationship. You know. One
of the things we've always seen is the way in
which the clones became more than just an automaton basically
programmed because of their relationship with the Jedi, and so
in that I think though, that's the thing that would
(11:32):
have opened up a clone to the possibility of Jedi
training at all. And yet because in some ways that
is the relationship between and this is I think what
really came down to, that relationship between that trinity of Anakin,
Obi Wan and Ahsoka. You know, they have such an
(11:55):
impact on those clones that are in their orbit because
I think they just kind of rightly show and they're
all willing to treat the clones like Yoda did right
with an ambush with those clones that there are more
than meets the eye in some ways. And it seems
(12:20):
like a lot of the other Jedi that they were
not as close to their clones and and they weren't
me into their clones or bad to their clones or whatever,
but they're there didn't seem to be that personality that
was given to them in that way. Uh, And so
I could really see somebody like a Rex, you know,
(12:43):
growing into that if there had been more time, you know.
And and yet, you know, I think we can look
at Sabine as a good example of how difficult. This
is for somebody who is not what we would consider
classically for sensitive, right, right, and the difficulty and the
(13:08):
absolute dedication and focus that it takes, you know, it's
it's akin to I feel like, you can become an
incredible You can become a good basketball player, right if
you really dedicate yourself to it. But there's also those
(13:31):
people who just have that natural proclivity that also then
dedicate themselves and they become masters of it. And that
seems to be very much what we're kind of talking
about with this idea of what whether or not a
clone trooper could could become a Jedi in any way,
shape or form. They're probably those people who basically, when
(13:56):
it comes to the force, they've been delta pair of threes,
and you know, Anakin has been dealt to pair of
aces right when it comes to for sensitivity, And so
each one, if applying themselves, could become a Jedi, but
it's definitely going to be a much more difficult road
(14:18):
for the person who's dealt pair threes.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah, I mean, you know, the thing is, as we
sit here and we talk about it, you know, obviously
we agree. Yeah, you know, under the right circumstances, right application,
right work at it. We also know that midichlorian levels
can't be directly manipulated. They're resistant to it. There's a
lot of there's a lot of subtle exploration in The
(14:44):
Bad Batch, which will I expect play into all of
our speculations about how Palpatine was engineering his own shot
at immortality inspired by things like Dark Empire. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Well, excuse me for interrupting, but Omega is a an
example of somebody that we know to be more for
sensitive than than other clones. Right there, there's that hint
in the series that it would be.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
More open to the experimentation.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Just what made her incredibly special?
Speaker 1 (15:28):
And we know that Grogu somehow tied into maff Gideon's
experiments to try to make clones of himself that were
exactly Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
So, I mean I think there was something about Omega
that had it had gotten close, it had gotten much
closer than than Palpatine had ever been before. And I
think that's a really interesting, uh thing. And and I
what what it means for me is I think I
want more about Omega as a character because I feel like, oh, yes,
(16:03):
you know, she really truly is in some ways an
answer to a lot of these questions that we have
about the ability of clones and therefore sensitivity and what
could happen. And something about her in the cloning process
(16:26):
allowed her to have a better reception to the force.
You know, I don't know if somebody was holding her
antennas or something while she was being cloned, but her
reception was definitely better.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Well, I think that with Omega it does. What's so
fascinating is, you know, we switch into Omega. You're right,
there's the whole cloning aspect of that, and the fact
that she was cloned with the idea that the Caminoans
would be able to use her as leverage with the Emperor.
Of course, right, that never works out right. But while
(16:59):
you're talking about that, of course I want more Omega stories.
I need more Omega stories in my life. I do.
I would be happy as a pig and slop if
they were to say, oh, you know what new limited
series with Omega, or like, oh yea Omega is going
to show up in a Sosoca season too, I'd be like,
oh my gosh, yes, yeah, but yeah, I'm also thinking
(17:23):
now and I know this is going down the rabbit hole,
but this, this is what you triggered in my brain.
Wouldn't it be so cool? Also because we know that
a lot of this the cloning and Omega and all
in this discussion about how receptive clones could be to
force training and stuff like that. Wouldn't it be so
interesting to have a series? You could make a really
(17:43):
spooky Star Wars series, make it animated, to make a
live action, whatever you want to do. And what it
is is it's almost like a Twilight Zone type of thing.
But the tying thread is that somehow, you know, you
communicate to the audience that Palpatines rip on the material
world is is extended through these whether it's clones, whether
(18:09):
it's something else. These clones and artifacts and stuff like
that that keep him going, and it's like it's like
it can it. He can possess somebody for a short
amount of time, but then he loses it and it's
like it's it's this like wouldn't that be like a
great like ten episode series. But along the way he
(18:29):
could find an old clone who has been decommissioned and
has gone off, and it is like fine, I'm just
I'm done with everything. I'm gonna go off nowhere and
then all of a sudden his life gets subsumed by
you know, Palpatine sidious spirit. Yeah, and it we get
even more you know, more background to that, you know.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
So you know, I think we talked about here on
the show that that Darth Vader comics series, uh, and
the artifact with Old exactly, and and so that idea
of that there was some way to kind of pass
some sort of essence along uh. And so you know,
I think that's something that you know, you absolutely could see.
(19:16):
But you know, I think the interesting part about this
question is that, uh, it does open up a lot
of possibilities, but I also just think it reminds me
of just how much storytelling there still is to tell
with somebody like and Omega, where there are still so
(19:37):
many questions that we don't have answered about her, and
and I hope and pray that at some point we
will get more content with her and so we can
really kind of dive into some of those mysteries, because
I think a lot of those mysteries surrounding that whole
(19:59):
everything that was even happening there on Mount Tantas, right,
is fascinating stuff. And uh, and it's the thing that
you know, obviously Filony and the creators the Bad Batch
were using to kind of help tie into the whole
sequel series in general and then try and create cohesion
between everything. And it isn't it. It's a totally fascinating
(20:21):
story because you know, it completely ties into the whole
idea of the Sith desire to uh stay with the material,
uh and discount yes, and in that way, you know,
it's something akin to something we were kind of talking
(20:42):
about before we start recording. But you know, it's it's
the same it's the same problem that you know Voldemort
has in Harry Potter, which is that that you think
that death is the ultimate enemy, and so that that
(21:03):
the whole storyline is incredibly interesting. It's it's the thing
that you know, makes then all the stories we got
with Yoda and and and learning from Qui Gon and
putting all that together. I mean, it's just I think
there's there's so many fun mysteries about the Force that
are really exciting and so and and you know, it's
(21:29):
one of the fun things about you know, as we
tie in as well to where we are in the
Auhsoka series, and you know, them being left in the
other galaxy and the fact that there's a connection with
the Mortis gods there. Uh, and there's also you know,
Sabine being trained and everything. I just think all of
(21:49):
that is so fascinating and it makes me very excited
for the fact that we'll be able to you know,
continue uh these stories and Star Wars, and it just
goes to show how many great stories are still left
in the Star Wars galaxy to mine.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Absolutely, there are a lot of great stories left to mine.
And there are also a lot of great ways to
harass you online. So, Matt, why don't you tell people
where they can find you?
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Well, if you're up for it, you can find me
on social media under the name Matt Rushing zero two.
If I'm on the platform, that's my name. You can
also find me here on the network with a completed
show about the Harry Potter series called The Outpost, talking
about every single chapter of the Harry Potter series. You
can also find me over on the TFM network with
a lot of different shows. One is the six oh
(22:35):
two Club is talking about all of the franchises that
we love, plus a lot of great Star Trek talk
over there. So please do go over there and check
that out. Now, John, when you're trying to figure out
what's going on with your reception to the Force, where
can people find you? Oh?
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Well, I'm receiving lots of the Force online as Kessel
Junkie K S s E l j u n Kie,
and you can find me right here on the network,
co hosting a show called house Lights where we look
at the work of directors with Trician Rudel and Darren Moser.
Have a lot of fun doing that. But Matt, you know,
I think that they are a little angry about my
(23:13):
vials that I left for my experiments back at the
Jedi Temple. So I'm gonna have to ask you, can
we please close these negotiations?
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Well, John, we better get back, so negotiations are closed.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Join the Revolution, Join the Nerd Party.
Welcome to the ned Palty.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hi. This is Nick and Astasu, story editor on Star Wars,
the Clone Wars and Star Wars bad Batch, and you
are listening to Aggressive Negotiations.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
We welcome you back to Aggressive Negotiations, the Star Wars
podcast here on the Nerd Party Network that explores all
of the different regions and nooks and crannies and whatever
else you want to call a crevis in a galactic map.
I am one of your hosts, Jedi Master John Mills,
and I'm joined once again by my dear friend, Jedi
Master Matthew Rushing. Matt, I have a surprise topic for you.
(00:46):
The listeners of this show are big fans of the
surprise topics, and I want to know, are you well.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I'm a big fan of you stopping getting us caught
in the crevice of another spaceworm. So can you please
can we please stop exploring those crevices because the mine
ox in here keep eating the power cables on our
ship and I'm really frustrated, and so yes, fire away
with your surprise topic, but can we just get out
(01:15):
of here.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
We can get out of here, but on the condition
that people fire away their reviews over on Apple Podcasts
and let us know what they think of the show.
We do this for the love of the game. Give
us a review for the love of the show. And
of course you can find us over on the socials
at the Jedi Masters on ex Twitter, the Nerd Party
on Facebook and Instagram, and at Join nerd Party on
ex Twitter. So here's the surprise topic. As everybody knows,
(01:39):
my youngest loves Rebels. Chopper is her favorite droid, and
I think maybe Chopper might be mine too. So the
next logical step was, well, you know, there's a delightful
little show called The Clone Wars. You want to give
that a try, And we've been easing into it and
she's been taking to it, and like all sane and
rational people, we jump around watched the episodes in a
(02:01):
jumble as they were released, and we very recently got
to the first aired episode, Ambush, featuring Yoda and the
three Clones battling the Droid Army to try to get
to King Katunko of the toy Darians. At one point
during that show, Yoda sits down, has the Clones take
off their helmets and says to them, you think you
(02:23):
look the same, But in the Force. Everybody is their
own person, and it made me think for a second.
George Lucas himself said Midchlorians alone were not the determinant
factor of whether you were a Jedi. People misinterpreted Midchlorians
that think you had to have a certain score like
an sat to become a Jedi. He's like, no, anybody
(02:45):
can become a Jedi. It's just easier for some people
than others. And of course, you know, the Mediclorians are
also a vehicle for talking about the prophecy conceived by
the Force, that sort of thing. So I was thinking
to myself, if that's so, if all living beings have
the Force in them, is it possible that a clone
of their own accord could become a Jedi.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
I think that's a really interesting question. You know, it
makes me think of then, you know, you would kind
of look to a Jango fet as because you know,
all their DNA comes from him, and and they're all
clones of him, and of course even you know they're
(03:28):
they're augmented by the Caminoans. But you know, whether or
not Django kind of ever exhibited any forced sensitivity, you know,
And yes, you know, George talks about the idea that yes,
you know, if you really put in enough dedication, you
(03:50):
could become some semblance of a Jedi.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Right.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
You may never be the world's strongest Jedi, you could
probably do it. I think we see that kind of
play out in the Ahsoka series with Sabine and her journey.
The hard thing about this, though, is is that you know,
I think a clone would have been had to have
been given the time and the place to even try that.
(04:17):
And you know, as watching as we watched through the
Clone Wars, you get the episodes that there's very few
of them where clones don't just do the job that
they're given, you know, because they are so programmed. You
get the deserter where that happens.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
And so.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
I wonder if, because of the augmentation for personality that
was given to the clones, if that wouldn't have made
it very very, very difficult, nine near impossible for a
Clone to kind of reach out in that way, because
(05:00):
they wouldn't have even just had to desire. And that
seems like that would be the first step towards that
very long journey of somebody working towards being a Jedi
in the first place.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Sure, I agree that it's a question of perception. Where
the clones are raised, they're given subliminal messaging from inside
the Kresh, they are continually bombarded with lessons, they're growth accelerated,
they're all of these things. They are conditioned. They are
(05:37):
born to kill and serve the Republic. But within that
question of will, there's still the capability. And I would
point to actually, I'll bring it back to Jango fet
what do we see that's a core difference between Django
(05:57):
and obi Wan. For instance, in episode two, obi Wan
flies with a droid to get you know, and he
has now, yes, I know that there's a functional aspect
of it. He needs somebody to talk to, so he's
not just talking to himself while he's flying the fighter.
All of that stuff, say take that out of it.
Django flies through the rings above Geonosis on his own,
(06:20):
whereas obi Wan says flying is for droids, not because
Jedi can't fly, but even they have a little droid
copilot that goes with them. Jango has a natural aptitude
and so my counter would be a hunting like Han
Solo does. But that even speaks to a mindset thing.
(06:41):
It's that inculcation of the clones are raised to be
very materialist. I concede that point, but you could if
you found one like the Deserter who is more open
to the idea of a different type of life and mindset.
I think it's possible that you could have somebody trained up.
(07:01):
I agree they'll never be Anakin Skywalker, but considering Jedi,
according to the lure established by Lucas himself as well,
the Jedi existed before knowledge of the Medichlorians even existed.
It was a monastic order, it was a lifestyle. It
was a communing with the force sort of thing, as
(07:23):
opposed to the warriors that we encounter near the end
of the Golden Age in the prequels.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Another question that I would think might have an implication
on whether or not this would be possible. I immediately
think of the idea of does the growth acceleration that
all clones are given do something to their physiology which
(07:51):
would also make this more difficult for them, because it's
not a truly natural in the same way in which
you know, we know Anakin Skywalker was never as strong
as he was beforehand because he had started to lose
parts of his body when you know he had the
(08:14):
fight with Obu and Kenobi and what that did to him.
And so because of that that natural connection to the
force being about one's actual natural nature, does this type
of manipulation have an impact on the relationship between you know,
(08:35):
any minicolorians a person would have in the first place,
and then therefore their connection with the force.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
I like where you're going with that. I think that
that growth acceleration would have a huge impact on how old,
quote unquote would a clone have to be in order
to even be open to this. So let me build
on what you're saying. Is saying a clone say episode
two era that comes out of the batch, No, I
(09:05):
don't think there's any chance. Their growth acceleration, combined with
their training, probably stunts their mental development in the sense
that they think a certain way and they don't have
life like they're intelligent and they're creative thinkers, but they're
creative thinkers within a certain problem solving mindset. But then
(09:30):
if you go down the line and you encounter somebody,
say one of the Batcher's or later on Rex after
the Clone wars are done, those are clones who have
had enough of an emotional and developmental arc to have
their those centers of their brains fully mature to the
(09:52):
point where they could consider the possibility of training. You know,
but there could be clones the same age that wouldn't
be able to do that because they just never got
to that point. Like I would argue, you could say
Rex yes, Cody no, because you look at where they
(10:13):
are in their development. Cody's able to follow Order sixty
six without without even blinking. Rex shows that development because
he's able to understand something's happening that he doesn't want
to do. So you have right there. Actually, if you
watch Episode three and The Phantom Apprentice side by side,
(10:34):
you see two clones of similar age and experience reacting
differently to Order sixty six.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Yeah, I mean, and I think a big part of that,
you know, it seems to come down to the Rex
is with obi Wan and Anakin for so long and
in their orbit, and then of course with Ahsoka. You know,
Cody seems to be a slight the newer addition to
obi Wan to orbit and therefore not quite as he
(11:10):
hasn't had the impact on the relationship. You know. One
of the things we've always seen is the way in
which the clones became more than just an automaton basically
programmed because of their relationship with the Jedi, and so
in that I think though, that's the thing that would
(11:32):
have opened up a clone to the possibility of Jedi
training at all. And yet because in some ways that
is the relationship between and this is I think what
really came down to, that relationship between that trinity of Anakin,
Obi Wan and Ahsoka. You know, they have such an
(11:55):
impact on those clones that are in their orbit because
I think they just kind of rightly show and they're
all willing to treat the clones like Yoda did right
with an ambush with those clones that there are more
than meets the eye in some ways. And it seems
(12:20):
like a lot of the other Jedi that they were
not as close to their clones and and they weren't
me into their clones or bad to their clones or whatever,
but they're there didn't seem to be that personality that
was given to them in that way. Uh, And so
I could really see somebody like a Rex, you know,
(12:43):
growing into that if there had been more time, you know.
And and yet, you know, I think we can look
at Sabine as a good example of how difficult. This
is for somebody who is not what we would consider
classically for sensitive, right, right, and the difficulty and the
(13:08):
absolute dedication and focus that it takes, you know, it's
it's akin to I feel like, you can become an
incredible You can become a good basketball player, right if
you really dedicate yourself to it. But there's also those
(13:31):
people who just have that natural proclivity that also then
dedicate themselves and they become masters of it. And that
seems to be very much what we're kind of talking
about with this idea of what whether or not a
clone trooper could could become a Jedi in any way,
shape or form. They're probably those people who basically, when
(13:56):
it comes to the force, they've been delta pair of threes,
and you know, Anakin has been dealt to pair of
aces right when it comes to for sensitivity, And so
each one, if applying themselves, could become a Jedi, but
it's definitely going to be a much more difficult road
(14:18):
for the person who's dealt pair threes.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah, I mean, you know, the thing is, as we
sit here and we talk about it, you know, obviously
we agree. Yeah, you know, under the right circumstances, right application,
right work at it. We also know that midichlorian levels
can't be directly manipulated. They're resistant to it. There's a
lot of there's a lot of subtle exploration in The
(14:44):
Bad Batch, which will I expect play into all of
our speculations about how Palpatine was engineering his own shot
at immortality inspired by things like Dark Empire. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Well, excuse me for interrupting, but Omega is a an
example of somebody that we know to be more for
sensitive than than other clones. Right there, there's that hint
in the series that it would be.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
More open to the experimentation.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Just what made her incredibly special?
Speaker 1 (15:28):
And we know that Grogu somehow tied into maff Gideon's
experiments to try to make clones of himself that were
exactly Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
So, I mean I think there was something about Omega
that had it had gotten close, it had gotten much
closer than than Palpatine had ever been before. And I
think that's a really interesting, uh thing. And and I
what what it means for me is I think I
want more about Omega as a character because I feel like, oh, yes,
(16:03):
you know, she really truly is in some ways an
answer to a lot of these questions that we have
about the ability of clones and therefore sensitivity and what
could happen. And something about her in the cloning process
(16:26):
allowed her to have a better reception to the force.
You know, I don't know if somebody was holding her
antennas or something while she was being cloned, but her
reception was definitely better.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Well, I think that with Omega it does. What's so
fascinating is, you know, we switch into Omega. You're right,
there's the whole cloning aspect of that, and the fact
that she was cloned with the idea that the Caminoans
would be able to use her as leverage with the Emperor.
Of course, right, that never works out right. But while
(16:59):
you're talking about that, of course I want more Omega stories.
I need more Omega stories in my life. I do.
I would be happy as a pig and slop if
they were to say, oh, you know what new limited
series with Omega, or like, oh yea Omega is going
to show up in a Sosoca season too, I'd be like,
oh my gosh, yes, yeah, but yeah, I'm also thinking
(17:23):
now and I know this is going down the rabbit hole,
but this, this is what you triggered in my brain.
Wouldn't it be so cool? Also because we know that
a lot of this the cloning and Omega and all
in this discussion about how receptive clones could be to
force training and stuff like that. Wouldn't it be so
interesting to have a series? You could make a really
(17:43):
spooky Star Wars series, make it animated, to make a
live action, whatever you want to do. And what it
is is it's almost like a Twilight Zone type of thing.
But the tying thread is that somehow, you know, you
communicate to the audience that Palpatines rip on the material
world is is extended through these whether it's clones, whether
(18:09):
it's something else. These clones and artifacts and stuff like
that that keep him going, and it's like it's like
it can it. He can possess somebody for a short
amount of time, but then he loses it and it's
like it's it's this like wouldn't that be like a
great like ten episode series. But along the way he
(18:29):
could find an old clone who has been decommissioned and
has gone off, and it is like fine, I'm just
I'm done with everything. I'm gonna go off nowhere and
then all of a sudden his life gets subsumed by
you know, Palpatine sidious spirit. Yeah, and it we get
even more you know, more background to that, you know.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
So you know, I think we talked about here on
the show that that Darth Vader comics series, uh, and
the artifact with Old exactly, and and so that idea
of that there was some way to kind of pass
some sort of essence along uh. And so you know,
I think that's something that you know, you absolutely could see.
(19:16):
But you know, I think the interesting part about this
question is that, uh, it does open up a lot
of possibilities, but I also just think it reminds me
of just how much storytelling there still is to tell
with somebody like and Omega, where there are still so
(19:37):
many questions that we don't have answered about her, and
and I hope and pray that at some point we
will get more content with her and so we can
really kind of dive into some of those mysteries, because
I think a lot of those mysteries surrounding that whole
(19:59):
everything that was even happening there on Mount Tantas, right,
is fascinating stuff. And uh, and it's the thing that
you know, obviously Filony and the creators the Bad Batch
were using to kind of help tie into the whole
sequel series in general and then try and create cohesion
between everything. And it isn't it. It's a totally fascinating
(20:21):
story because you know, it completely ties into the whole
idea of the Sith desire to uh stay with the material,
uh and discount yes, and in that way, you know,
it's something akin to something we were kind of talking
(20:42):
about before we start recording. But you know, it's it's
the same it's the same problem that you know Voldemort
has in Harry Potter, which is that that you think
that death is the ultimate enemy, and so that that
(21:03):
the whole storyline is incredibly interesting. It's it's the thing
that you know, makes then all the stories we got
with Yoda and and and learning from Qui Gon and
putting all that together. I mean, it's just I think
there's there's so many fun mysteries about the Force that
are really exciting and so and and you know, it's
(21:29):
one of the fun things about you know, as we
tie in as well to where we are in the
Auhsoka series, and you know, them being left in the
other galaxy and the fact that there's a connection with
the Mortis gods there. Uh, and there's also you know,
Sabine being trained and everything. I just think all of
(21:49):
that is so fascinating and it makes me very excited
for the fact that we'll be able to you know,
continue uh these stories and Star Wars, and it just
goes to show how many great stories are still left
in the Star Wars galaxy to mine.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Absolutely, there are a lot of great stories left to mine.
And there are also a lot of great ways to
harass you online. So, Matt, why don't you tell people
where they can find you?
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Well, if you're up for it, you can find me
on social media under the name Matt Rushing zero two.
If I'm on the platform, that's my name. You can
also find me here on the network with a completed
show about the Harry Potter series called The Outpost, talking
about every single chapter of the Harry Potter series. You
can also find me over on the TFM network with
a lot of different shows. One is the six oh
(22:35):
two Club is talking about all of the franchises that
we love, plus a lot of great Star Trek talk
over there. So please do go over there and check
that out. Now, John, when you're trying to figure out
what's going on with your reception to the Force, where
can people find you? Oh?
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Well, I'm receiving lots of the Force online as Kessel
Junkie K S s E l j u n Kie,
and you can find me right here on the network,
co hosting a show called house Lights where we look
at the work of directors with Trician Rudel and Darren Moser.
Have a lot of fun doing that. But Matt, you know,
I think that they are a little angry about my
(23:13):
vials that I left for my experiments back at the
Jedi Temple. So I'm gonna have to ask you, can
we please close these negotiations?
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Well, John, we better get back, so negotiations are closed.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Join the Revolution, Join the Nerd Party.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!