April 22, 2025 • 55 mins
Andor: We’ll Always Have Rix Road.
The final two episodes of Star Wars Andor give Matt and John plenty to discuss as the arc resolves from Season 1. We see the fear, anger and hate boil over into a riotous uprising on Ferrix, with Andor caught in the middle as he returns to try to save Bix and mourn his mother. Did they hit the right pace? Did they break the story effectively across two episodes? And what in the name of weirdness is going on with Syril and Dedra?
Host
John Mills and Matthew Rushing
Love listening to Aggressive Negotiations, a Star Wars podcast that’s different from all the rest? Then you’ll love The Nerd Party, a one-of-a-kind podcast network focused on all the best of Star Trek, the magical realm of the Harry Potter books, the works of the best film directors in history, the latest from international film and comic stars, and so much more!
Send us your feedback!
Twitter: @TheJediMasters
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheNerdParty/
Email: http://www.thenerdparty.com/contact
Subscribe in Apple Podcasts
The final two episodes of Star Wars Andor give Matt and John plenty to discuss as the arc resolves from Season 1. We see the fear, anger and hate boil over into a riotous uprising on Ferrix, with Andor caught in the middle as he returns to try to save Bix and mourn his mother. Did they hit the right pace? Did they break the story effectively across two episodes? And what in the name of weirdness is going on with Syril and Dedra?
Host
John Mills and Matthew Rushing
Love listening to Aggressive Negotiations, a Star Wars podcast that’s different from all the rest? Then you’ll love The Nerd Party, a one-of-a-kind podcast network focused on all the best of Star Trek, the magical realm of the Harry Potter books, the works of the best film directors in history, the latest from international film and comic stars, and so much more!
Send us your feedback!
Twitter: @TheJediMasters
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheNerdParty/
Email: http://www.thenerdparty.com/contact
Subscribe in Apple Podcasts
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the ned Palty.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hi. This is Nick and Astasu, story editor on Star Wars,
The Clone Wars and Star Wars bad Batch. And you
are listening to aggressive negotiations.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Well, hello, and welcome to aggressive negotiations coming at you
again from Ferrex. We can't seem to get away from
this place. And I am just one of your hosts,
Matthew rushing and with me as he is every single
week quaffing his Ferrexian Ale Jedi Master John Mills.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Oh, quaffing and Ale. That sounds really, that sounds just right.
It's not too high brow exactly. It makes me I
feel like I'm part of the Ferris crew. Now, yeah, yeah.
Ferrex is the is the Star Wars and Or version
of Tatouine. It's a planet you just keep coming back to.
It seems to be a nexus of activity, which is
(01:10):
fine by me. It's fine by me, especially if you're
going to build a practical set, you might as well
get as much out of it as.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
I mean, absolutely absolutely. But before we you know, dive
into the last two episodes here of and Or. As
this episode will drop, everybody will be watching the second
season of and Or this evening. But find us wherever
you get your podcasts. We really appreciate all of you
(01:38):
who have continued to listen to us for all these years. John,
I don't know if you know this, but this is
episode three ninety seven, so I.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Do now I know that. Now we're almost but you
know what, Hey, you know what, Disney, you did nine
episodes of Star Wars. We've done three hundred and ninety seven.
We rule, that's true, we do.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
And I'd just like to say, if you would like
to give us a gift for our upcoming four hundredth episode,
flood us with reviews over on Apple Podcasts. We would
really appreciate that. Plus to share out the show on
places on social media like x Twitter. You can follow
(02:22):
us at the Jedi Masters. We've got the entire network
on Facebook at Facebook dot com, slash the Nerd Party
at the nerd Party dot com, or you can see
all the shows happening here on the network, and of
course you can find us at Joint at Joint Nerd Party,
on x Twitter for the entire network, and on Instagram
at the Nerd Party. But John, as we round out
(02:43):
the season here, one of the things that I was
really struck by in in the episode Daughters of Farix
was how good they have gotten at creating the practical
(03:04):
droids so that there is so much emotion that is
felt with them from all of the movement, especially with
the way in which there's just something very powerful about
the way be deals with Marva's death and then the
performance that they give that droid to sell it to you.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, I mean it's great puppetry. It reminds me of
Jim Henson's style stuff where you believe in the uh,
you know, the skexists and stuff like that, Like they
figure out how to make the thing work really well.
And yeah, I agree. I think B is a is
(03:47):
a charming piece of practical effects work, and I think
that it enhances the scenes because it gives people something
physical to interact with. You know, it's all make believe.
We know it's all make believe, but it's nice to
see somebody talking. I mean basically it B is a
(04:11):
dog that can talk, and it's the conversation we all
think we're having with our pets when we talk to them.
And you know, I think that as part of that, though,
what you're calling to the front here is that can't
be ignored. What is the use of sound, And I
(04:32):
mean the voice, the servo motor sounds that they put
over it, that really brings it to life as well.
It's sort of like the sound of C three Po's
walk helps give him weight and reality. And he's a
guy in a gold suit, but I believe he's adroid
because of the way he sounds when he moves, and
I think that be they've they've blended that puppetry and
(04:56):
that sound work to make it really come to life.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's just one of those things
where and I think it's just endemic of the entire series,
is that they've really just been paying attention to the
details of every single little thing like you just mentioned.
I mean, it's not just the puppetry work, but it's
(05:21):
all of the ways in which every single part of
the production of that droid brings it to life. And
they have just gotten so good at that, you know,
and which also I think makes sense that they would
do that, because that's how we all felt watching K
two s in Rogue one. You know, he became just
(05:44):
another character the way all of the best droids do
in Star Wars. And in some ways, I feel like
kind of brought that to a next level.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
But you know, yeah, well hold on before you go forward.
This is what I want to ask, is you see
B and we both agree, great job. And yes, I
know that K two s O is computer generated, but
you know, Alan Tudic is on set giving weight to
that and it's you know, terrific work and all of
(06:16):
those sorts of things. I want to ask you because
in this era of Disney Star Wars quote unquote so called,
we have droids really taking a forefront here. So where
would you put B in the pantheon? Man? So I'm
talking this is post C three PO and R two
D two sort of time. We've got L three, we've
(06:40):
got B, we've got BB eight, we've got Evil BB
eight from the Last Jedi. But basically, where is B
in that new pantheon that they're putting together? You know?
Speaker 3 (06:55):
I would say that for me, the epitome of the
newer droid is K two s O is my favorite.
I think B is kind of like right there with him,
but below And I mean BB eight was just an
incredible achievement as well. And regardless of what I feel
(07:15):
about those films, really cool, very fun design. I think
that was one of maybe the best designs of this
equal trilogy, right, I mean, because it took something that
we're so familiar with and it really did put no
pun intended a fun spin on it, right, And so
(07:36):
I think that they really did a great job. And
so you know, that's that's kind of where I would
land with that.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
What what about you? I mean L three and K
two s O are basically tied for me, Yeah, because
I like the sas that they both bring. I found
L three to be equally as funny two K two,
So it's like they're sort of tied there. B I
(08:05):
have more of an appreciation for after rewatching the series,
I feel bad in the sense because you're right, BB
eight was a charming creation and I like BB eight.
I think that what's unfortunate is that BB eight is
tied to a piece of the franchise that I'm least
(08:29):
likely to rewatch. So my estimation of BB eight is
going to lessen over time through no fault of the
great work done there. Yeah, and I think that's a
damn shame. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
No, I mean I think that that's I get it,
you know, I think for me, at L three, there's
there's some over the topness to it that I don't
love as much as my other part of the list,
but still an incredible creation and just looks so. I
(09:01):
mean again, this is one of the things I think
that they're doing so well with these droids. Whether they're
CGI or whether they're real, they all feel real. I
never question their reality or their interaction with the other characters.
And I do think a big part of that is
that so many times, you know, even if they are CGI,
(09:26):
you know a lot of times they'll try to do
when they can through puppetry, right, And so yeah, I
think it's great.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Now.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
I wanted to ask you something because with Daughters of Feriks,
something that stood out to me was this whole moment
between Val and Man as they are watching Man's daughter
with this group of chendrill and girls, and Lee has
(10:02):
kind of glommed onto this culture and tradition from Chandrilla
that many people like Man, Mathma and Val have kind
of like rebuffed in many ways. And yet these kids,
(10:23):
especially on Chorussant specifically that she mentions, you know, they
this is something that you're seeing more on coreconth than
you are even on Chandrilla. And I was really struck
by this because of the way in which I think
it just even comports with the reality that we see
(10:47):
in our world today with the ever shifting sands. In
an ever shifting world, we do see kids looking for
some kind of stability, and many of them are reaching backwards,
whether it's towards religion or towards a closer identification with
a culture or an ideology. And I really enjoyed the
(11:11):
way in which this show is tapping into that idea
because I would suspect that again, this is a microcosm
of the larger culture all over the galaxy as the
Empire continues to just kind of squeeze people. Because I mean,
I feel like you even seeing the same thing on Pherix, right,
(11:32):
These people are doubling down on their own life, and
we kind of see that in the speech that Marv
gives in the last episode right about how we clung
to ourselves here on Pherix. We clung to our way
of life at the exclusion of everything else. And so
I really liked the way that this plays in both
(11:55):
of these episodes because I think, again, it feels so
real without necessarily just being a one for one for
necessarily anything we see in our world, but it's just
a something that is kind of like a thing that
you would expect to see kind of historically throughout the generation.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
I mean, I think, you know, I don't. I don't
know how how true it is either way in the
real world, but there is definitely to your point, basically,
as kids are finding their identity, they're going to be
reaching for anything that they can hold on to. Like
(12:38):
you're saying with stability, absolutely agree. We all do it.
We're looking for we're trying to figure out who we are.
And I think that if there's any sort of meta
commentary on culture or society as a whole in the show,
it has specifically to do with this character because she
(13:05):
doesn't have parents to hold on to. The parents are there,
but there's a distance, there's a you know, a lack
of intimacy, and so that's when somebody goes searching for belonging.
And I think to your point, what should be really
(13:29):
looked at is with with Val being critical of it
and mon being critical of it, is they're looking for
their tribe in the rebellion, for people who are in
their own ideology, and they're being very critical of looking
(13:52):
at the daughter going after this more traditional chandrilline lifestyle,
and it's like, well, she's looking for the same thing
that you're looking for. If you want her not to
seek it, provide some more guidance to lead her towards that.
And I think that's more. That's more what I glom
(14:16):
onto with that stary line, where it's like, it's more
of a critique of when people seek belonging, why are
they seeking that thing as opposed to you know what
it is, and if it's a quote unquote bad thing
from your point of view, thank you, Obi wan Kenobi,
(14:38):
then be an example to show them why they shouldn't
do that.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
No. I think that's a great point, and I think
it makes a lot of sense because and I think
it's one of the things that we're seeing. It's something
that we've been seeing throughout this entire series. Right man,
Mathma's own issue use in her own marriage that have
(15:04):
her basically at odds with her husband are something that
I are immediately and automatically felt by her daughter, and
I think that's one of the things that is making
her daughter then cling to something like this, this tradition
from Chandrilla because she needs something secure, and what's more
(15:29):
secure than a tradition in your culture that goes back
you know, who knows thousands of years. Possibly we don't
know a ton about Chandrilla and culture, but like if
it's anything else, like the rest of the Star Wars universe,
you know this is at least a thousand years old
or more so.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Right, you know. The thing is, though, with you mentioning
man Mathma and the husband, I want to give a
lot of credit to the fact that the relationship between
man and her husband is very believably dysfunctional. There's not
(16:08):
the traditional sort of dysfunction you encounter in a show.
Is there's the yelling, there's the cheating, there's the throwing,
there's the tears. It's this, it's it's instead this real
distant iciness between them, and it's like, that's such a
(16:28):
a I think it's relatable, not necessarily for everybody with
you know, with parents's, but we have all encountered in
a relationship like that, and that's how relationships go off
the rails. More than anything else, I would say, is
that sort of distance that grows and then it just
becomes so far apart that you just can't come back
(16:50):
from it. Yep. So I got to give them credit.
It's a really well done piece of the show.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
I agree, because you know, that is a huge part
of the second episode. And you know, I think of
our discussion tonight, and it's one of those things where
you know, we've known that they're kind of being watched
this entire time, uh and and now we get the
full confirmation as to who's watching them and why. But
(17:22):
I also, you know, find it just so interesting because.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
And and.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I think one of the reasons too that I really
see their daughter struggling so much is because her dad
is just a big man boy who's really never grown up,
right and and and so and that's really the biggest issue,
and in even just his and Mon's relationship as well,
(17:50):
is that man Mathma has been senator and been doing
things that are important her entire life, and he has
just it seems like almost seel like he's never worked,
he's never done any thing, and so he's really just bored,
and so he's just kind of given into all of
these vices. And you know, I find that to be
incredibly fascinating because it's a very interesting commentary on manhood
(18:18):
and how men who do nothing, I think, lack a
sense of like purpose and identity and then just kind
of get lost and and like, of course, you know,
in our world into just things like video games and YadA, YadA, YadA,
whereas here it's like, you know, it's the drinking, it's
the gambling, it's it's those type of vices that are.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Are I would I would argue that that's very you know,
that's still very prevalent. Yeah, yeah, but you know songs.
We're moving on to the second episode. Two things. One,
I think that the way that man Mathma politically gives
herself cover by then sacrificing her husband to the isb
(19:06):
and painting that picture that it's his gambling that's the problem,
and no matter how much he denies it, she's just
hung everything on him. Yea. And what I love about
Genevieve O'Reilly's performance is you can read in her face
the fact that she regrets doing it. Yeah, she's you know,
her whole manner is he doesn't really deserve this, but
(19:29):
I have no other choice here. She doesn't want to
do something mean for the sake of it, which you
got to admire. Second though, since we're you know, we
jumped forward to the second episode and everything. How do
you feel about the way these episodes are split, because,
you know, the thing we've gone back and forth on
repeatedly is like, I feel the first three episodes, you
(19:49):
should have put them together and just had a little
mini movie sort of thing, no credit breaks or anything
like that. Go dark for an extra second between chapters
if you need to. I found it to work better
with the whole Marquina five arc. But how do you
feel about these two episodes in the way that they flow.
(20:10):
Do you feel that this is a satisfying splitting point
that they found between the two of them.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Yeah, I think that this one is really interesting because
it's all the stuff that needs to happen so that
the next episode can happen. But in and of itself,
there's so many great moments that happen in this episode.
(20:36):
You know, I think of the whole conversation between you know,
Saw and Oh and and Luthan, you know, about the sacrifices,
the hard choices that we have to make in war,
and that's where you know, he Saw just finally says,
let's call it war. That's what we're at we're at
(20:58):
war and we know all the way from the Clone,
and it's such a great callback right to that original
Clone Wars arc where we're introduced to Saul and he's
taught to fight war by none other than Anakin Skywalker.
Uh and so it's just it's so wonderful. But that
whole discussion is fantastic. Then you have the escape by
(21:20):
luthan in the coolest ship in Star Wars, also known
as the James Bond Gadget Ship because that's exactly what
they're modeling it after.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Now, now hang on a second. The listening this the
inverted start as Storier with three radar dishes. Okay, don't
don't come at me. I want that toy.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
It's cool.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
It's very cool design.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
But I mean we haven't got a fon door Haullcraft yet.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
The fact that they called it a can't well class
as a callback to Colin can't Well Like, that's the
type of thing I salute because it's like, yes, calling
back to the legend. Thank you for doing that, because
it definitely did look like a can't well designed You
know that that that more you know, fifty sixty sci
(22:09):
fi type of design. Sorry, I'm sorry to cut you off,
but you mentioned because you're absolutely just badass.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Yes, because that whole sequence is just incredible, right, And
and then there's that there's such an incredibly small moment
in that scene though, where they have registered his ship
right as Alderanian, and yet what do they do. They say, No,
(22:37):
we're gonna We're gonna search him anyway, because it's good practice.
It's that imperial overreach. And this show has done such
a great job of continuing to show how the Empire
doesn't care anymore because it doesn't think anybody can stop them.
And that's just a tiny little moment there, but it
reminds you of exactly why Lutha is out there in
(23:00):
the first place, and why they're willing basically to be
at war.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
And it's just so good. So I actually think that
the breakup of the episode is really work because the
other thing is coming into the final episode of Rick's Road.
That whole piece is just a movement that does need
to sit on its own, I believe, because it is
(23:33):
marvelously crafted. Uh and uh, it's it's it's like the
final movement of a dirge, which that's what is being
played at of course for the funeral and and the
music of course, having such an incredible uh part to this.
(23:54):
I mean it it is the episode is defined by
the music as well, and so so I think it
needs it does need to stand alone by itself, because
the way that they crafted it is incredibly moving, and
I would say picture perfect. But I don't know what
did you think, because I know that you know for
(24:16):
you that editing has been a little more up and
down of course than it has been for me.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
I was fine with the split point that they had.
I think I think it works. This is I think
this is an example of when a series splits the
episodes right. If I were to quibble with the individual episodes,
I think there are certain things that could have moved
a little bit quicker, been a little bit tighter, But
that's me. I'm impatient. I guess there are certain things
(24:46):
where I would have, you know, maybe cut some of
the bridge moments. I would have leaving alone something like
the funeral scene that functions the way it needs to.
Maybe there's some other stuff, ships landing, people walking on
like they could be tightened up a little bit more,
you know, like and I would point back to something
(25:07):
like how a return of the Jedi handles Vader going
from the Death Star down to Endoor. That's pretty quick
compared to the shuttle landing here with Deirdre. I'm not
trashing it. I'm just saying, like, just just a little
bit quicker in those type of moments is where I
(25:27):
would throw the flag on that. But overall, I think
the two episodes work right in terms of the way
that they're cut. So I guess a lot of my
stuff winds up being anchored to the way the show
began with a lot of those complaints, but it really
seems like they figured it out by the time they
(25:49):
got to hear But the thing is, I'm going to
move backwards for a second because mon Mathma is going
to a lot of effort to frame her husband as
the reason for their money troubles, and I think that
I want to ask you, do you think they've done
a good enough job establishing that the Emperor is not
(26:12):
in a position to make a move against any senators
at this point because man Mathma, and with how powerful
the ISP is, they could they could get her no problem,
They could make it look worse than it is. They
could do whatever they wanted to what do you think
(26:32):
holds the Emperor's hand? Because you know, I have my
head cannon about it. You know, where do you land
with that? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:39):
I putting it all into context of where we are.
I believe that the Emperor is basically waiting until he
thinks he has ultimate power, which is going to be
the Death Star.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Yeah, well, I mean that in the original Star Wars exactly.
But but but it's not just that.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
But it's like and hence that's why you know, they
are specifically looking for a way to discredit Mond Mathmah financially.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
You know, they are.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
They are looking into her life. They're trying to find
a way to discredit her because what they need to
do is they need to be able to paint her
to the hollow net. As you know this she portrays
herself as being this great you know, uh person who
cares about liberty and justice for all. And look what
she's been doing, you know, with her own finances. You know,
they need that kind of scandal so they can completely
(27:40):
smear her, ruin her, and discredit her in a way that.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
You know, and and.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Which terrifyingly feels so real in our world, right like
like that the same type of thing is happening here.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
So so that's how I care that she becomes a mark.
She becomes a martyr if you arrest herself. But if
you character assassinate her, you plan enough doubt in everybody's
mind with like, oh, she's just another corrupt politician. Exactly. Yeah,
I agree with that. And yes, obviously, once the death
Star has made the emperors like, hey, I don't got
(28:16):
to worry about this anymore. Womp wamp, sorry Luke Skywalker
shows up. Yeah, yeah, I accept that. I mean, it's
it's like any other KGB style thing exactly where it's like,
you know, it's it's more worthwhile to discredit the person
in the public's eye so that their value as a
(28:39):
symbol is is is tarnished.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Yeah, exactly, Like, and I think I think you just
you know, you said that really well because you can't, Yeah,
you can't make this person a martyr that that people
then want to to follow and and and to prop
up as being then another reason for people to rebel right.
And so especially since you know, all of mon Mathma's
(29:05):
actions have been ones to which you can kind of
see the ways where if it's not done correctly, she
she would become a beacon of rebellion and that's the
last thing obviously that they want. And so I wanted
(29:25):
to ask you to you know, this last episode, right,
will always have Feryx, Like it all comes back to
Feryx here. And the entire season has slowly been building
to this moment where all of our characters come together.
They're literally all you know, on the same street, right
(29:48):
and even if sometimes they don't know that the other
is there. And how does that play out for you?
Do you feel like that moment of having all of
these characters in the same space is actually earned?
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Yeah, because they're all there to try to kill and Or.
So I'm like, okay, that works, and they give they
they write the right reason for and Or to ever
come back, right, Well, I mean he has two reasons.
You know that there's the death of his mom, but
there's also Bicks there and you know she's going to
be on his mind. What I'll give them credit for
(30:25):
bringing everybody together in one spot. Really well done. Thought
it was very slick. But I have to I haven't
done a lot of watching of behind the scenes stuff.
It's just attrition of time, folks. It's it's not in
personal since the show, but there's a specific shot when
(30:46):
they're just starting to march down the road and the
empires on the other side. It's like a you know,
the building in the center and everybody's marching toward this
climactic point. It very much evoked and I have to
find out if this is on perpose the gunfight that
kicks off The Wild Bunch by Sam pecketfah, yeah, And
(31:06):
it's a really great way to build tension. But when
I saw it this time, I was like, oh, that
feels like The Wild Bunch. I have to find out
if I'm inventing a connection in my brain or if
that's on purpose, because that's a good question. Feels like
it asked beyond purpose.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
And I can't remember because I did I did watch
the behind the scenes extras, and I can't remember if
they said that that was one of one of their inspirations.
But you know, honestly, from what we know of Gilroy,
I can't imagine something like that wouldn't be one of
their inspirations, you know. And so because you know these
(31:45):
guys are very steeped and you know that type of
lore from film.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Well, let me ask you this question. You know, obviously
it boils over. We have a big you know, the
big riot and and pacification scene and everything like that.
How do you feel that plays out? Do you ever
lose your sense of place in the edit of all
of the mayhem going around? Do you ever lose your
(32:14):
sense of place? You ever say, wait, how did he
get over there? Like? Does it ever not track for you?
Speaker 3 (32:20):
I will say that it doesn't feel like that. I
feel like it intentionally sometimes feels discombobulating because you are
right in the action. Like there's that moment, you know,
where Deirdre's on the ground and you know then she
gets saved by Cyril, and you're with her in that
moment of feeling her try to crawl for her gun
(32:43):
and basically almost kind of in a space where you
can see a little bit more than she can, but
in many ways her view is kind of your view,
and so you don't get a sense of the greater
goings on. And I thought that was really well done.
And I loved the way in which this and a
(33:05):
lot of it pulled from you know, I think some
more modern filmmaking when it comes to like the films
you would see like black hawk down or something like that,
where there's just that ultra confusion of the moment, so
that you really do feel that fog of war when
you're literally in the moment.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Oh yeah, well, I'm not talking about that in specific.
I'm talking about when like Cyril is on the steps
and he gets to hurt, like building up to that.
Do you ever feel that the pieces of where people
are I mean, yeah, that's a good question. Yeah. I'm
not trying to I'm not trying to lead the witness here. No, No,
I think there are certain moments where I'm like, wait,
(33:46):
how are they looking at that there?
Speaker 3 (33:48):
I think that's a good question. I don't honestly. I
mean for myself personally, I don't think I put too
much thought into it. And I think so I I
would say I wasn't personally bothered by anything like that,
And so, but were you Did you find yourself pulled
out or did you find yourself a little bit lost
(34:10):
in the edit at all?
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Bothered? Is not? Is that's too big a word for me?
I think it. I think it gets to something so
basic as there are a couple of moments where the
guy who stabs them in the back and goes to
the Imperials to tell them that he's seen the guy
and or has got to be in that building, Like
(34:34):
where that building is in relation to everything else? You know,
I couldn't draw a map on the street of where
it was in relation to everything. That's the type of
thing I'm talking about. Is it enough for me to
be like this show sucks, not in the least, but
there are moments where it feels a little bit, oh okay, yeah,
when you're in the riot scene absolutely should feel exactly
(34:57):
the way that it did. Absolutely appropriate. Nobody knows what's
going on. There's the literal fog of war everywhere. What
do you think of Marv's speech though? Do you think
that was well done? Was that a great way to
kick it off? What do you think.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
It's I think it's it's perfect. It's incredibly moving, I
think I especially even watching that whole scene again, the
moment that she begins the speech, I just found myself
being moved by this moment. And because it really does
(35:38):
feel in a lot of ways like this series is
kicking off the true birth of the rebellion. This this
this moment on Faryx, in this this call by Marva
is legitimately the call of those under this type of oppression,
(36:03):
which is wake up from your sleep and see what's
going on and be willing to do something about it.
And I think that it's great. I also think that,
you know, we don't really praise Disney very much on
this show for the choices that they make, maybe notes
(36:23):
wise for the series, but I do believe that their
call to not have her say f the Empire was
one hundred percent the right call because I think that
word puts this in a place that does not work
for Star Wars and pulls you out of the episode
in a way you wouldn't want that to happen. So yeah,
(36:45):
I thought it all works because they didn't allow them
to do that. And even Gilroy at this point agrees
with Disney and saying, yes, they made the right call there.
That would have been too far.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
So for somebody like me who's too lazy to look
at the behind the scenes stuff. They actually filmed this, Yeah,
did they actually film it and then cut it or
did they just write it and they looked at the
script and they were like.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
And they cut it and they changed it to fight
the Empire?
Speaker 1 (37:15):
But see, this is this is something that's crazy to me, right,
is we all have in our brains this idea that
the studios, whether it's for a Marvel movie, whether it's
for a DC movie, whether it's for Star Wars, and
or that there's somebody on set at all times from
(37:38):
the board like this evil. You know, it's almost like
Cancer Man from the X Files. They're standing in shadow
behind the production team, like you can't put that in there.
It's so fascinating to me that something like that made
it all the way to the point where like here's
our finished episode and somebody's sitting in the room like, yeah,
one note, let's just change She's already saying, yeah, yeah,
(38:02):
the f sound is already coming out. She's changed that
to height.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
So I think it's crazy that it made it that far.
I agree before they made that.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Change one of the things because you know, it plays
with both of the episodes. But we learn here and
it seems to do the very thing that Luthen wanted
it to. By Saul not going to help Krieger, the
empire feels like it's one. And yet the only person
(38:33):
who seems to not think that is Dedra, and that
is because she seems to be the only one who's
thinking with the mind of a scalpel, and the rest
of the empire is thinking as a bludgeoning hammer.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
And well, you see, you see the politics come in.
I'm sorry to catch off, but yeah, yeah, you see
the politics come in. It's about wiping the taste of
al Dan from the Emperor's mouth.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Yeah, which is interesting because I think that's a nuance
that we haven't necessarily gotten a ton in Star Wars
is showing that side of the undermining of the rebellion
because you're all beholden to this one all powerful person
who you're trying to make happy, and trying to make
(39:24):
them happy isn't always the best thing for the best thing, right, Like,
I find that to be incredibly fascinating.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
I think there are a lot of people that work
for companies that are relating to the feeling of that
scene where yea, it's like, but this is what we
should do. No, this is not about what we should do.
It's about keeping you know, the c suite or the
execs happy. That's basically this conversation. Yeah, And I guarantee
(39:56):
you there are tons of people who watch that scene
and they're like, oh yeah, this is I get this one.
A beautifully played scene though, I really, I really love
the way the scene is played. But you know what,
I want to go back to the inciting thing with that,
because what really really stuck with me is two things
(40:19):
about Forrest Whittaker, you know as Sawgerera. Three things. One,
I mean, one of the best casting decisions they've ever
made in high gred I mean his casting is Sawgerera.
They didn't know they were going to make this series
at the time, but this goes up there with Ian
(40:39):
mcjarmidge stepping in as the Emperor in Return of the Jedi.
It works so well that you're like, this is literally
no other person on the planet could have played this
this way. Item number two, I want an episode in
season two explaining how he goes from having hair to
(41:00):
being shaved at the beginning of Rogue one to having
hair again. Just put it out there. Although no weight,
he would have no Rogue one, that teaser in Rogue
one would have been before this. Ah, there you go.
I just explained it for myself. All right, I'm gonna
pull that note back, all right, Sorry, mister Gilroy. Continuity
(41:22):
is okay on that one. You heard me correct myself
in real time. But third, what I thought was a
really interesting thing was with Saw. Obviously, what's breaking him
is Luthen has proven to you know, not necessarily trustworthy,
not dealing with them on the level. But you see
(41:43):
Saws fear when he's basically piecing together. So if you
suddenly thought I was expendable, would you just take me it?
Would you just let me go die? Like? Bro hey? Right?
So I mean, you know, like, is that the best
(42:04):
conversational scene in both of these episodes or is there
one that's in contention with it?
Speaker 3 (42:09):
I think that's one of the best conversations in the series.
And the reason for that is is because I think
the reason that Saw actually ends up choosing to not
go save Krieger is that he realizes, if I truly
(42:29):
believe that this is worth fighting, then whether I survive
or not is not the point. Whether I'm expendable or
not is not even the point, because the point is
us freeing the galaxy from the Empire. And to me,
(42:52):
that's the rationale that allows me to understand. Then why
he chooses to do what he does is because that
clicks for him. Does he like it?
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Probably not?
Speaker 3 (43:04):
But does he I think he get it. Yeah, I
think he gets that. And I also think though, that
it builds into the idea of, you know, when we
see Saw in Rogue one, is it's just one more
you know, brick in the wall for him of his
(43:25):
paranoia to the point where he's almost completely paralyzed in
inque Can.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
I be honest with you that what I sincerely hope
does not happen in season two is I hope they
don't spend screen time showing him hanging out with or
getting or capturing the poor gullet. Oh. I don't think
they're gonna have time with that moment, you know, Yeah,
I sincerely hope not. I don't like that. That's the
(43:54):
one thing I'll give the show credit for is there
are other shows that would waste that scene of you know,
here is my due pet the boor gut right. I'm
just hoping that doesn't agree.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
So yeah, So we we talked just a little bit
about this. But on the other side of the choice
that Mon makes is that yes, she sells out her
husband basically yep, but she's also still moving forward with
(44:33):
Davos in his offer for her daughter, And so I
wanted to ask you about how you felt about that,
because if she does this thing where she sells out
her husband, you know, I mean, is it necessary for
her to necessarily go down this route or is she
doing this just because she also still needs to have access,
(44:57):
you know, to the money.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
I think it's more noble than that. Honestly, I think
that mon Mathma sees the way things can go, the
way things are pointing, and I think she is sacrificing
her husband to buy herself time, but she understands her
daughter at least has to be taken care of if
things go south as okay, the possible escape routs shrink,
(45:24):
she's at least got her daughter in a spot where
she's going to be safe. So she's making one of
those like really noble choices that you never get credit
for making, because that's just how the world works sometimes,
where you just don't get credit for taking the right
path or protecting someone because they just don't see it
(45:46):
and you'll ruin everything if you tip your hand.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
Well, and I mean, her daughter is not actually against this, right,
her daughter is actually into the idea of the traditional
ways on chin and so therefore this might actually be
the first thing that her daughter sees her doing for
her that she's appreciative of, which is interesting, right even
(46:10):
though my Mathma clearly isn't excited about this still and
you know, yeah, we the episode culminates obviously in rebellion,
and then well we have our favorite characters escape, and
(46:35):
we have then the end where and Or selflessly offers
himself to Luthen saying, take me in, Or, let's do
this thing. And so I wanted to ask you about
how you felt about that, as you know, kind of
(46:55):
the end of the season, because I don't know, coming
end of the season if we would all think of
I mean, obviously we know and Or's going to survive,
but all these other people, it's like, I don't expect
there to really to be a happy ending for a
lot of people at the end of the season, and
there was a way happier ending for a lot of
them that I was glad that they did survive than
(47:15):
I thought might.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
Yeah. I think I think it's a very good ending.
I like the fact that they have that quasi cliffhanger
because it feels right that even if they didn't have
a season two, if I go from this and pick
up and or in rogue one. I'm okay with that.
(47:42):
It works. It still works, you know, kill me or
take me in boom and the next time you see him,
Oh okay, Well it's like that whole serial mentality. Maybe
I'll get an episode that fills in those too late
or something like that. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think
it's very effective. I think that the part of it
(48:05):
that I still I don't know. I mean, this is
the thing that I'm trying to sort of like hold
on to here is, you know, as we're talking about
the ending and everything, and we're coming to the close
of the discussion and everything, how do you feel about
the quasi sexual energy that Dider and Cyril are given
(48:26):
off at the end of this Like it just feels weird.
You know.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
It's one of those things where I pretty much remember.
I was trying to remember it. I thought, I think
we talked about this a little bit when we actually
discussed you know, the episode for six o two club,
you know, back when it came out. And look, I mean,
(48:56):
what's weird about it is that it's not all that
an ununderstandable that in this moment of incredibly heightened emotion,
there's this you know, she's had this person save her,
and then she has this person who seems to just
(49:19):
be there for her when she almost could have died,
right and and so yes, I think it's incredibly weird,
and I agree with you on that.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
Other than that, though, I mean, I don't know it. Yeah,
it's it's not the greatest. And again, I still, you know,
the weird part about this is that I'm still left
wondering as to exactly what his purpose is on the
(49:57):
show other than the fact that he's like there to
save her at the end. It still seems just incredibly
strange to me.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
So no, that's it, you know, that's it. Cyril's a
character I still struggle with. It's the one major criticism
I'll have, and I'll wrap myself up with this one.
Is for some reason, there's a part of me that
just feels that the wrap up with the aftermath of
(50:27):
the riot. I'm very satisfied with what they do with
the Indoor, getting everybody to the ship and the way
it ends with Luthen, but I don't feel that it
was wrapped up neatly enough with Deirdre and the Imperial Garrison.
I would have liked to see something extra there establishing Okay,
(50:49):
we've quelled it, and like her having a moment where
she's like, I'm going to have to go back and
report this, and she's going to go back kind of humiliated,
tail between her legs, this that she champion and was
so focused on, and we don't need to see her
go there, but like at least have a moment where
she's like realizing, she's like, oh my career just took
(51:10):
a massive hita. You know that I would have liked that.
And also, you know, it's just a little too unresolved
with her and Ceial, so you know.
Speaker 3 (51:23):
Yeah, I agree. I do think it's it's a strange thing.
And I again I think that I said it from
you know, then the beginning of our discussions that he's
just the one storyline that I just don't quite understand
(51:43):
and I don't quite get. But I think that on
a whole for me, I give this season probably like two.
I'd say I give this season four point seventy five
out of and the reason it can't be a full
on five is because the serial storyline, even by the end,
(52:08):
still doesn't quite make sense.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
I wind up giving it a four because it wraps
up well that if the ending of your movie is
the best part of the movie, then you'll forgive a
lot of stuff. If the beginning of your movie is
the best part of your movie, then the ending you've
burned all your goodwill. By the end. This does the
right thing, which is it settles itself down and gets
(52:32):
everything out. For me, the serial storyline is more of
a detriment to it. Yeah, it never feels like it
finds its place again. None of this is the fault
of the actors with it. None of this is the
fault of anything except they just didn't seem to know
(52:54):
in the writer's room how to make that one work.
I understand, it's the inciting blah blah blah blah. So
I wound up with a four. In a crankier day,
I probably wound up giving it a three and a half.
But at the end of this rewatch series overall four
star series.
Speaker 3 (53:11):
Nice man, that's great. Well, you know, if people wanted
to catch up with you then and see what you've
got going as we look towards and or season two,
where can they find you?
Speaker 1 (53:25):
Well, gosh, you can find me. As Kessel Junkie out
there in the wild space of the Internet, and you
can find me right here on the network, co hosting
a show called house Lights with Darren Moser and Tristan Radel,
where we have a lot of fun talking about different
directors and their movie efforts and everything. It's a time
come on by and hang out. And speaking of hanging out,
(53:45):
I find myself over the six oh two Club, which
is someplace that is where people can find you online.
But where else can they find you?
Speaker 3 (53:54):
Yeah, you can find me all over social media and
the named Matt rushing Zo two. Of course, here on
the network, you'll find me the show called Our Post
with Drake Kaufman as we talked about every single chapter
the Harry Potter series, one chapter at a time. You also
find me outside of the six poho two Club on
the TFM network talking about a lot of different Star
Trek shows, Warp five, Artificial Tango, Saddle Up, Strange, We're
(54:18):
talking about Strange New Worlds. You know, we've got to
the Journey or the ORB. I mean, there's so many
great shows over there, so I hope you'll check all
of those out. But John, you know, I think it's
I think it's Corelli and whiskey night over at the temple.
So I think it's time to close these negotiations.
Speaker 1 (54:39):
Perfect timing. I also want to have them replace the
chimes with a gong. Fantastic. That would be pretty cool. Good,
good way to bring us back. So Master Rushing negotiations
are closed.
Speaker 3 (54:59):
Join the Revolution, Join the Nerd Party on program
Welcome to the ned Palty.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hi. This is Nick and Astasu, story editor on Star Wars,
The Clone Wars and Star Wars bad Batch. And you
are listening to aggressive negotiations.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Well, hello, and welcome to aggressive negotiations coming at you
again from Ferrex. We can't seem to get away from
this place. And I am just one of your hosts,
Matthew rushing and with me as he is every single
week quaffing his Ferrexian Ale Jedi Master John Mills.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Oh, quaffing and Ale. That sounds really, that sounds just right.
It's not too high brow exactly. It makes me I
feel like I'm part of the Ferris crew. Now, yeah, yeah.
Ferrex is the is the Star Wars and Or version
of Tatouine. It's a planet you just keep coming back to.
It seems to be a nexus of activity, which is
(01:10):
fine by me. It's fine by me, especially if you're
going to build a practical set, you might as well
get as much out of it as.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
I mean, absolutely absolutely. But before we you know, dive
into the last two episodes here of and Or. As
this episode will drop, everybody will be watching the second
season of and Or this evening. But find us wherever
you get your podcasts. We really appreciate all of you
(01:38):
who have continued to listen to us for all these years. John,
I don't know if you know this, but this is
episode three ninety seven, so I.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Do now I know that. Now we're almost but you
know what, Hey, you know what, Disney, you did nine
episodes of Star Wars. We've done three hundred and ninety seven.
We rule, that's true, we do.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
And I'd just like to say, if you would like
to give us a gift for our upcoming four hundredth episode,
flood us with reviews over on Apple Podcasts. We would
really appreciate that. Plus to share out the show on
places on social media like x Twitter. You can follow
(02:22):
us at the Jedi Masters. We've got the entire network
on Facebook at Facebook dot com, slash the Nerd Party
at the nerd Party dot com, or you can see
all the shows happening here on the network, and of
course you can find us at Joint at Joint Nerd Party,
on x Twitter for the entire network, and on Instagram
at the Nerd Party. But John, as we round out
(02:43):
the season here, one of the things that I was
really struck by in in the episode Daughters of Farix
was how good they have gotten at creating the practical
(03:04):
droids so that there is so much emotion that is
felt with them from all of the movement, especially with
the way in which there's just something very powerful about
the way be deals with Marva's death and then the
performance that they give that droid to sell it to you.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, I mean it's great puppetry. It reminds me of
Jim Henson's style stuff where you believe in the uh,
you know, the skexists and stuff like that, Like they
figure out how to make the thing work really well.
And yeah, I agree. I think B is a is
(03:47):
a charming piece of practical effects work, and I think
that it enhances the scenes because it gives people something
physical to interact with. You know, it's all make believe.
We know it's all make believe, but it's nice to
see somebody talking. I mean basically it B is a
(04:11):
dog that can talk, and it's the conversation we all
think we're having with our pets when we talk to them.
And you know, I think that as part of that, though,
what you're calling to the front here is that can't
be ignored. What is the use of sound, And I
(04:32):
mean the voice, the servo motor sounds that they put
over it, that really brings it to life as well.
It's sort of like the sound of C three Po's
walk helps give him weight and reality. And he's a
guy in a gold suit, but I believe he's adroid
because of the way he sounds when he moves, and
I think that be they've they've blended that puppetry and
(04:56):
that sound work to make it really come to life.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's just one of those things
where and I think it's just endemic of the entire series,
is that they've really just been paying attention to the
details of every single little thing like you just mentioned.
I mean, it's not just the puppetry work, but it's
(05:21):
all of the ways in which every single part of
the production of that droid brings it to life. And
they have just gotten so good at that, you know,
and which also I think makes sense that they would
do that, because that's how we all felt watching K
two s in Rogue one. You know, he became just
(05:44):
another character the way all of the best droids do
in Star Wars. And in some ways, I feel like
kind of brought that to a next level.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
But you know, yeah, well hold on before you go forward.
This is what I want to ask, is you see
B and we both agree, great job. And yes, I
know that K two s O is computer generated, but
you know, Alan Tudic is on set giving weight to
that and it's you know, terrific work and all of
(06:16):
those sorts of things. I want to ask you because
in this era of Disney Star Wars quote unquote so called,
we have droids really taking a forefront here. So where
would you put B in the pantheon? Man? So I'm
talking this is post C three PO and R two
D two sort of time. We've got L three, we've
(06:40):
got B, we've got BB eight, we've got Evil BB
eight from the Last Jedi. But basically, where is B
in that new pantheon that they're putting together? You know?
Speaker 3 (06:55):
I would say that for me, the epitome of the
newer droid is K two s O is my favorite.
I think B is kind of like right there with him,
but below And I mean BB eight was just an
incredible achievement as well. And regardless of what I feel
(07:15):
about those films, really cool, very fun design. I think
that was one of maybe the best designs of this
equal trilogy, right, I mean, because it took something that
we're so familiar with and it really did put no
pun intended a fun spin on it, right, And so
(07:36):
I think that they really did a great job. And
so you know, that's that's kind of where I would
land with that.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
What what about you? I mean L three and K
two s O are basically tied for me, Yeah, because
I like the sas that they both bring. I found
L three to be equally as funny two K two,
So it's like they're sort of tied there. B I
(08:05):
have more of an appreciation for after rewatching the series,
I feel bad in the sense because you're right, BB
eight was a charming creation and I like BB eight.
I think that what's unfortunate is that BB eight is
tied to a piece of the franchise that I'm least
(08:29):
likely to rewatch. So my estimation of BB eight is
going to lessen over time through no fault of the
great work done there. Yeah, and I think that's a
damn shame. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
No, I mean I think that that's I get it,
you know, I think for me, at L three, there's
there's some over the topness to it that I don't
love as much as my other part of the list,
but still an incredible creation and just looks so. I
(09:01):
mean again, this is one of the things I think
that they're doing so well with these droids. Whether they're
CGI or whether they're real, they all feel real. I
never question their reality or their interaction with the other characters.
And I do think a big part of that is
that so many times, you know, even if they are CGI,
(09:26):
you know a lot of times they'll try to do
when they can through puppetry, right, And so yeah, I
think it's great.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Now.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
I wanted to ask you something because with Daughters of Feriks,
something that stood out to me was this whole moment
between Val and Man as they are watching Man's daughter
with this group of chendrill and girls, and Lee has
(10:02):
kind of glommed onto this culture and tradition from Chandrilla
that many people like Man, Mathma and Val have kind
of like rebuffed in many ways. And yet these kids,
(10:23):
especially on Chorussant specifically that she mentions, you know, they
this is something that you're seeing more on coreconth than
you are even on Chandrilla. And I was really struck
by this because of the way in which I think
it just even comports with the reality that we see
(10:47):
in our world today with the ever shifting sands. In
an ever shifting world, we do see kids looking for
some kind of stability, and many of them are reaching backwards,
whether it's towards religion or towards a closer identification with
a culture or an ideology. And I really enjoyed the
(11:11):
way in which this show is tapping into that idea
because I would suspect that again, this is a microcosm
of the larger culture all over the galaxy as the
Empire continues to just kind of squeeze people. Because I mean,
I feel like you even seeing the same thing on Pherix, right,
(11:32):
These people are doubling down on their own life, and
we kind of see that in the speech that Marv
gives in the last episode right about how we clung
to ourselves here on Pherix. We clung to our way
of life at the exclusion of everything else. And so
I really liked the way that this plays in both
(11:55):
of these episodes because I think, again, it feels so
real without necessarily just being a one for one for
necessarily anything we see in our world, but it's just
a something that is kind of like a thing that
you would expect to see kind of historically throughout the generation.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
I mean, I think, you know, I don't. I don't
know how how true it is either way in the
real world, but there is definitely to your point, basically,
as kids are finding their identity, they're going to be
reaching for anything that they can hold on to. Like
(12:38):
you're saying with stability, absolutely agree. We all do it.
We're looking for we're trying to figure out who we are.
And I think that if there's any sort of meta
commentary on culture or society as a whole in the show,
it has specifically to do with this character because she
(13:05):
doesn't have parents to hold on to. The parents are there,
but there's a distance, there's a you know, a lack
of intimacy, and so that's when somebody goes searching for belonging.
And I think to your point, what should be really
(13:29):
looked at is with with Val being critical of it
and mon being critical of it, is they're looking for
their tribe in the rebellion, for people who are in
their own ideology, and they're being very critical of looking
(13:52):
at the daughter going after this more traditional chandrilline lifestyle,
and it's like, well, she's looking for the same thing
that you're looking for. If you want her not to
seek it, provide some more guidance to lead her towards that.
And I think that's more. That's more what I glom
(14:16):
onto with that stary line, where it's like, it's more
of a critique of when people seek belonging, why are
they seeking that thing as opposed to you know what
it is, and if it's a quote unquote bad thing
from your point of view, thank you, Obi wan Kenobi,
(14:38):
then be an example to show them why they shouldn't
do that.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
No. I think that's a great point, and I think
it makes a lot of sense because and I think
it's one of the things that we're seeing. It's something
that we've been seeing throughout this entire series. Right man,
Mathma's own issue use in her own marriage that have
(15:04):
her basically at odds with her husband are something that
I are immediately and automatically felt by her daughter, and
I think that's one of the things that is making
her daughter then cling to something like this, this tradition
from Chandrilla because she needs something secure, and what's more
(15:29):
secure than a tradition in your culture that goes back
you know, who knows thousands of years. Possibly we don't
know a ton about Chandrilla and culture, but like if
it's anything else, like the rest of the Star Wars universe,
you know this is at least a thousand years old
or more so.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Right, you know. The thing is, though, with you mentioning
man Mathma and the husband, I want to give a
lot of credit to the fact that the relationship between
man and her husband is very believably dysfunctional. There's not
(16:08):
the traditional sort of dysfunction you encounter in a show.
Is there's the yelling, there's the cheating, there's the throwing,
there's the tears. It's this, it's it's instead this real
distant iciness between them, and it's like, that's such a
(16:28):
a I think it's relatable, not necessarily for everybody with
you know, with parents's, but we have all encountered in
a relationship like that, and that's how relationships go off
the rails. More than anything else, I would say, is
that sort of distance that grows and then it just
becomes so far apart that you just can't come back
(16:50):
from it. Yep. So I got to give them credit.
It's a really well done piece of the show.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
I agree, because you know, that is a huge part
of the second episode. And you know, I think of
our discussion tonight, and it's one of those things where
you know, we've known that they're kind of being watched
this entire time, uh and and now we get the
full confirmation as to who's watching them and why. But
(17:22):
I also, you know, find it just so interesting because.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
And and.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I think one of the reasons too that I really
see their daughter struggling so much is because her dad
is just a big man boy who's really never grown up,
right and and and so and that's really the biggest issue,
and in even just his and Mon's relationship as well,
(17:50):
is that man Mathma has been senator and been doing
things that are important her entire life, and he has
just it seems like almost seel like he's never worked,
he's never done any thing, and so he's really just bored,
and so he's just kind of given into all of
these vices. And you know, I find that to be
incredibly fascinating because it's a very interesting commentary on manhood
(18:18):
and how men who do nothing, I think, lack a
sense of like purpose and identity and then just kind
of get lost and and like, of course, you know,
in our world into just things like video games and YadA, YadA, YadA,
whereas here it's like, you know, it's the drinking, it's
the gambling, it's it's those type of vices that are.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Are I would I would argue that that's very you know,
that's still very prevalent. Yeah, yeah, but you know songs.
We're moving on to the second episode. Two things. One,
I think that the way that man Mathma politically gives
herself cover by then sacrificing her husband to the isb
(19:06):
and painting that picture that it's his gambling that's the problem,
and no matter how much he denies it, she's just
hung everything on him. Yea. And what I love about
Genevieve O'Reilly's performance is you can read in her face
the fact that she regrets doing it. Yeah, she's you know,
her whole manner is he doesn't really deserve this, but
(19:29):
I have no other choice here. She doesn't want to
do something mean for the sake of it, which you
got to admire. Second though, since we're you know, we
jumped forward to the second episode and everything. How do
you feel about the way these episodes are split, because,
you know, the thing we've gone back and forth on
repeatedly is like, I feel the first three episodes, you
(19:49):
should have put them together and just had a little
mini movie sort of thing, no credit breaks or anything
like that. Go dark for an extra second between chapters
if you need to. I found it to work better
with the whole Marquina five arc. But how do you
feel about these two episodes in the way that they flow.
(20:10):
Do you feel that this is a satisfying splitting point
that they found between the two of them.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Yeah, I think that this one is really interesting because
it's all the stuff that needs to happen so that
the next episode can happen. But in and of itself,
there's so many great moments that happen in this episode.
(20:36):
You know, I think of the whole conversation between you know,
Saw and Oh and and Luthan, you know, about the sacrifices,
the hard choices that we have to make in war,
and that's where you know, he Saw just finally says,
let's call it war. That's what we're at we're at
(20:58):
war and we know all the way from the Clone,
and it's such a great callback right to that original
Clone Wars arc where we're introduced to Saul and he's
taught to fight war by none other than Anakin Skywalker.
Uh and so it's just it's so wonderful. But that
whole discussion is fantastic. Then you have the escape by
(21:20):
luthan in the coolest ship in Star Wars, also known
as the James Bond Gadget Ship because that's exactly what
they're modeling it after.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Now, now hang on a second. The listening this the
inverted start as Storier with three radar dishes. Okay, don't
don't come at me. I want that toy.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
It's cool.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
It's very cool design.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
But I mean we haven't got a fon door Haullcraft yet.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
The fact that they called it a can't well class
as a callback to Colin can't Well Like, that's the
type of thing I salute because it's like, yes, calling
back to the legend. Thank you for doing that, because
it definitely did look like a can't well designed You
know that that that more you know, fifty sixty sci
(22:09):
fi type of design. Sorry, I'm sorry to cut you off,
but you mentioned because you're absolutely just badass.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Yes, because that whole sequence is just incredible, right, And
and then there's that there's such an incredibly small moment
in that scene though, where they have registered his ship
right as Alderanian, and yet what do they do. They say, No,
(22:37):
we're gonna We're gonna search him anyway, because it's good practice.
It's that imperial overreach. And this show has done such
a great job of continuing to show how the Empire
doesn't care anymore because it doesn't think anybody can stop them.
And that's just a tiny little moment there, but it
reminds you of exactly why Lutha is out there in
(23:00):
the first place, and why they're willing basically to be
at war.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
And it's just so good. So I actually think that
the breakup of the episode is really work because the
other thing is coming into the final episode of Rick's Road.
That whole piece is just a movement that does need
to sit on its own, I believe, because it is
(23:33):
marvelously crafted. Uh and uh, it's it's it's like the
final movement of a dirge, which that's what is being
played at of course for the funeral and and the
music of course, having such an incredible uh part to this.
(23:54):
I mean it it is the episode is defined by
the music as well, and so so I think it
needs it does need to stand alone by itself, because
the way that they crafted it is incredibly moving, and
I would say picture perfect. But I don't know what
did you think, because I know that you know for
(24:16):
you that editing has been a little more up and
down of course than it has been for me.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
I was fine with the split point that they had.
I think I think it works. This is I think
this is an example of when a series splits the
episodes right. If I were to quibble with the individual episodes,
I think there are certain things that could have moved
a little bit quicker, been a little bit tighter, But
that's me. I'm impatient. I guess there are certain things
(24:46):
where I would have, you know, maybe cut some of
the bridge moments. I would have leaving alone something like
the funeral scene that functions the way it needs to.
Maybe there's some other stuff, ships landing, people walking on
like they could be tightened up a little bit more,
you know, like and I would point back to something
(25:07):
like how a return of the Jedi handles Vader going
from the Death Star down to Endoor. That's pretty quick
compared to the shuttle landing here with Deirdre. I'm not
trashing it. I'm just saying, like, just just a little
bit quicker in those type of moments is where I
(25:27):
would throw the flag on that. But overall, I think
the two episodes work right in terms of the way
that they're cut. So I guess a lot of my
stuff winds up being anchored to the way the show
began with a lot of those complaints, but it really
seems like they figured it out by the time they
(25:49):
got to hear But the thing is, I'm going to
move backwards for a second because mon Mathma is going
to a lot of effort to frame her husband as
the reason for their money troubles, and I think that
I want to ask you, do you think they've done
a good enough job establishing that the Emperor is not
(26:12):
in a position to make a move against any senators
at this point because man Mathma, and with how powerful
the ISP is, they could they could get her no problem,
They could make it look worse than it is. They
could do whatever they wanted to what do you think
(26:32):
holds the Emperor's hand? Because you know, I have my
head cannon about it. You know, where do you land
with that? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:39):
I putting it all into context of where we are.
I believe that the Emperor is basically waiting until he
thinks he has ultimate power, which is going to be
the Death Star.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Yeah, well, I mean that in the original Star Wars exactly.
But but but it's not just that.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
But it's like and hence that's why you know, they
are specifically looking for a way to discredit Mond Mathmah financially.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
You know, they are.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
They are looking into her life. They're trying to find
a way to discredit her because what they need to
do is they need to be able to paint her
to the hollow net. As you know this she portrays
herself as being this great you know, uh person who
cares about liberty and justice for all. And look what
she's been doing, you know, with her own finances. You know,
they need that kind of scandal so they can completely
(27:40):
smear her, ruin her, and discredit her in a way that.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
You know, and and.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Which terrifyingly feels so real in our world, right like
like that the same type of thing is happening here.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
So so that's how I care that she becomes a mark.
She becomes a martyr if you arrest herself. But if
you character assassinate her, you plan enough doubt in everybody's
mind with like, oh, she's just another corrupt politician. Exactly. Yeah,
I agree with that. And yes, obviously, once the death
Star has made the emperors like, hey, I don't got
(28:16):
to worry about this anymore. Womp wamp, sorry Luke Skywalker
shows up. Yeah, yeah, I accept that. I mean, it's
it's like any other KGB style thing exactly where it's like,
you know, it's it's more worthwhile to discredit the person
in the public's eye so that their value as a
(28:39):
symbol is is is tarnished.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Yeah, exactly, Like, and I think I think you just
you know, you said that really well because you can't, Yeah,
you can't make this person a martyr that that people
then want to to follow and and and to prop
up as being then another reason for people to rebel right.
And so especially since you know, all of mon Mathma's
(29:05):
actions have been ones to which you can kind of
see the ways where if it's not done correctly, she
she would become a beacon of rebellion and that's the
last thing obviously that they want. And so I wanted
(29:25):
to ask you to you know, this last episode, right,
will always have Feryx, Like it all comes back to
Feryx here. And the entire season has slowly been building
to this moment where all of our characters come together.
They're literally all you know, on the same street, right
(29:48):
and even if sometimes they don't know that the other
is there. And how does that play out for you?
Do you feel like that moment of having all of
these characters in the same space is actually earned?
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Yeah, because they're all there to try to kill and Or.
So I'm like, okay, that works, and they give they
they write the right reason for and Or to ever
come back, right, Well, I mean he has two reasons.
You know that there's the death of his mom, but
there's also Bicks there and you know she's going to
be on his mind. What I'll give them credit for
(30:25):
bringing everybody together in one spot. Really well done. Thought
it was very slick. But I have to I haven't
done a lot of watching of behind the scenes stuff.
It's just attrition of time, folks. It's it's not in
personal since the show, but there's a specific shot when
(30:46):
they're just starting to march down the road and the
empires on the other side. It's like a you know,
the building in the center and everybody's marching toward this
climactic point. It very much evoked and I have to
find out if this is on perpose the gunfight that
kicks off The Wild Bunch by Sam pecketfah, yeah, And
(31:06):
it's a really great way to build tension. But when
I saw it this time, I was like, oh, that
feels like The Wild Bunch. I have to find out
if I'm inventing a connection in my brain or if
that's on purpose, because that's a good question. Feels like
it asked beyond purpose.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
And I can't remember because I did I did watch
the behind the scenes extras, and I can't remember if
they said that that was one of one of their inspirations.
But you know, honestly, from what we know of Gilroy,
I can't imagine something like that wouldn't be one of
their inspirations, you know. And so because you know these
(31:45):
guys are very steeped and you know that type of
lore from film.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Well, let me ask you this question. You know, obviously
it boils over. We have a big you know, the
big riot and and pacification scene and everything like that.
How do you feel that plays out? Do you ever
lose your sense of place in the edit of all
of the mayhem going around? Do you ever lose your
(32:14):
sense of place? You ever say, wait, how did he
get over there? Like? Does it ever not track for you?
Speaker 3 (32:20):
I will say that it doesn't feel like that. I
feel like it intentionally sometimes feels discombobulating because you are
right in the action. Like there's that moment, you know,
where Deirdre's on the ground and you know then she
gets saved by Cyril, and you're with her in that
moment of feeling her try to crawl for her gun
(32:43):
and basically almost kind of in a space where you
can see a little bit more than she can, but
in many ways her view is kind of your view,
and so you don't get a sense of the greater
goings on. And I thought that was really well done.
And I loved the way in which this and a
(33:05):
lot of it pulled from you know, I think some
more modern filmmaking when it comes to like the films
you would see like black hawk down or something like that,
where there's just that ultra confusion of the moment, so
that you really do feel that fog of war when
you're literally in the moment.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Oh yeah, well, I'm not talking about that in specific.
I'm talking about when like Cyril is on the steps
and he gets to hurt, like building up to that.
Do you ever feel that the pieces of where people
are I mean, yeah, that's a good question. Yeah. I'm
not trying to I'm not trying to lead the witness here. No, No,
I think there are certain moments where I'm like, wait,
(33:46):
how are they looking at that there?
Speaker 3 (33:48):
I think that's a good question. I don't honestly. I
mean for myself personally, I don't think I put too
much thought into it. And I think so I I
would say I wasn't personally bothered by anything like that,
And so, but were you Did you find yourself pulled
out or did you find yourself a little bit lost
(34:10):
in the edit at all?
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Bothered? Is not? Is that's too big a word for me?
I think it. I think it gets to something so
basic as there are a couple of moments where the
guy who stabs them in the back and goes to
the Imperials to tell them that he's seen the guy
and or has got to be in that building, Like
(34:34):
where that building is in relation to everything else? You know,
I couldn't draw a map on the street of where
it was in relation to everything. That's the type of
thing I'm talking about. Is it enough for me to
be like this show sucks, not in the least, but
there are moments where it feels a little bit, oh okay, yeah,
when you're in the riot scene absolutely should feel exactly
(34:57):
the way that it did. Absolutely appropriate. Nobody knows what's
going on. There's the literal fog of war everywhere. What
do you think of Marv's speech though? Do you think
that was well done? Was that a great way to
kick it off? What do you think.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
It's I think it's it's perfect. It's incredibly moving, I
think I especially even watching that whole scene again, the
moment that she begins the speech, I just found myself
being moved by this moment. And because it really does
(35:38):
feel in a lot of ways like this series is
kicking off the true birth of the rebellion. This this
this moment on Faryx, in this this call by Marva
is legitimately the call of those under this type of oppression,
(36:03):
which is wake up from your sleep and see what's
going on and be willing to do something about it.
And I think that it's great. I also think that,
you know, we don't really praise Disney very much on
this show for the choices that they make, maybe notes
(36:23):
wise for the series, but I do believe that their
call to not have her say f the Empire was
one hundred percent the right call because I think that
word puts this in a place that does not work
for Star Wars and pulls you out of the episode
in a way you wouldn't want that to happen. So yeah,
(36:45):
I thought it all works because they didn't allow them
to do that. And even Gilroy at this point agrees
with Disney and saying, yes, they made the right call there.
That would have been too far.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
So for somebody like me who's too lazy to look
at the behind the scenes stuff. They actually filmed this, Yeah,
did they actually film it and then cut it or
did they just write it and they looked at the
script and they were like.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
And they cut it and they changed it to fight
the Empire?
Speaker 1 (37:15):
But see, this is this is something that's crazy to me, right,
is we all have in our brains this idea that
the studios, whether it's for a Marvel movie, whether it's
for a DC movie, whether it's for Star Wars, and
or that there's somebody on set at all times from
(37:38):
the board like this evil. You know, it's almost like
Cancer Man from the X Files. They're standing in shadow
behind the production team, like you can't put that in there.
It's so fascinating to me that something like that made
it all the way to the point where like here's
our finished episode and somebody's sitting in the room like, yeah,
one note, let's just change She's already saying, yeah, yeah,
(38:02):
the f sound is already coming out. She's changed that
to height.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
So I think it's crazy that it made it that far.
I agree before they made that.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Change one of the things because you know, it plays
with both of the episodes. But we learn here and
it seems to do the very thing that Luthen wanted
it to. By Saul not going to help Krieger, the
empire feels like it's one. And yet the only person
(38:33):
who seems to not think that is Dedra, and that
is because she seems to be the only one who's
thinking with the mind of a scalpel, and the rest
of the empire is thinking as a bludgeoning hammer.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
And well, you see, you see the politics come in.
I'm sorry to catch off, but yeah, yeah, you see
the politics come in. It's about wiping the taste of
al Dan from the Emperor's mouth.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Yeah, which is interesting because I think that's a nuance
that we haven't necessarily gotten a ton in Star Wars
is showing that side of the undermining of the rebellion
because you're all beholden to this one all powerful person
who you're trying to make happy, and trying to make
(39:24):
them happy isn't always the best thing for the best thing, right, Like,
I find that to be incredibly fascinating.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
I think there are a lot of people that work
for companies that are relating to the feeling of that
scene where yea, it's like, but this is what we
should do. No, this is not about what we should do.
It's about keeping you know, the c suite or the
execs happy. That's basically this conversation. Yeah, And I guarantee
(39:56):
you there are tons of people who watch that scene
and they're like, oh yeah, this is I get this one.
A beautifully played scene though, I really, I really love
the way the scene is played. But you know what,
I want to go back to the inciting thing with that,
because what really really stuck with me is two things
(40:19):
about Forrest Whittaker, you know as Sawgerera. Three things. One,
I mean, one of the best casting decisions they've ever
made in high gred I mean his casting is Sawgerera.
They didn't know they were going to make this series
at the time, but this goes up there with Ian
(40:39):
mcjarmidge stepping in as the Emperor in Return of the Jedi.
It works so well that you're like, this is literally
no other person on the planet could have played this
this way. Item number two, I want an episode in
season two explaining how he goes from having hair to
(41:00):
being shaved at the beginning of Rogue one to having
hair again. Just put it out there. Although no weight,
he would have no Rogue one, that teaser in Rogue
one would have been before this. Ah, there you go.
I just explained it for myself. All right, I'm gonna
pull that note back, all right, Sorry, mister Gilroy. Continuity
(41:22):
is okay on that one. You heard me correct myself
in real time. But third, what I thought was a
really interesting thing was with Saw. Obviously, what's breaking him
is Luthen has proven to you know, not necessarily trustworthy,
not dealing with them on the level. But you see
(41:43):
Saws fear when he's basically piecing together. So if you
suddenly thought I was expendable, would you just take me it?
Would you just let me go die? Like? Bro hey? Right?
So I mean, you know, like, is that the best
(42:04):
conversational scene in both of these episodes or is there
one that's in contention with it?
Speaker 3 (42:09):
I think that's one of the best conversations in the series.
And the reason for that is is because I think
the reason that Saw actually ends up choosing to not
go save Krieger is that he realizes, if I truly
(42:29):
believe that this is worth fighting, then whether I survive
or not is not the point. Whether I'm expendable or
not is not even the point, because the point is
us freeing the galaxy from the Empire. And to me,
(42:52):
that's the rationale that allows me to understand. Then why
he chooses to do what he does is because that
clicks for him. Does he like it?
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Probably not?
Speaker 3 (43:04):
But does he I think he get it. Yeah, I
think he gets that. And I also think though, that
it builds into the idea of, you know, when we
see Saw in Rogue one, is it's just one more
you know, brick in the wall for him of his
(43:25):
paranoia to the point where he's almost completely paralyzed in
inque Can.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
I be honest with you that what I sincerely hope
does not happen in season two is I hope they
don't spend screen time showing him hanging out with or
getting or capturing the poor gullet. Oh. I don't think
they're gonna have time with that moment, you know, Yeah,
I sincerely hope not. I don't like that. That's the
(43:54):
one thing I'll give the show credit for is there
are other shows that would waste that scene of you know,
here is my due pet the boor gut right. I'm
just hoping that doesn't agree.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
So yeah, So we we talked just a little bit
about this. But on the other side of the choice
that Mon makes is that yes, she sells out her
husband basically yep, but she's also still moving forward with
(44:33):
Davos in his offer for her daughter, And so I
wanted to ask you about how you felt about that,
because if she does this thing where she sells out
her husband, you know, I mean, is it necessary for
her to necessarily go down this route or is she
doing this just because she also still needs to have access,
(44:57):
you know, to the money.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
I think it's more noble than that. Honestly, I think
that mon Mathma sees the way things can go, the
way things are pointing, and I think she is sacrificing
her husband to buy herself time, but she understands her
daughter at least has to be taken care of if
things go south as okay, the possible escape routs shrink,
(45:24):
she's at least got her daughter in a spot where
she's going to be safe. So she's making one of
those like really noble choices that you never get credit
for making, because that's just how the world works sometimes,
where you just don't get credit for taking the right
path or protecting someone because they just don't see it
(45:46):
and you'll ruin everything if you tip your hand.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
Well, and I mean, her daughter is not actually against this, right,
her daughter is actually into the idea of the traditional
ways on chin and so therefore this might actually be
the first thing that her daughter sees her doing for
her that she's appreciative of, which is interesting, right even
(46:10):
though my Mathma clearly isn't excited about this still and
you know, yeah, we the episode culminates obviously in rebellion,
and then well we have our favorite characters escape, and
(46:35):
we have then the end where and Or selflessly offers
himself to Luthen saying, take me in, Or, let's do
this thing. And so I wanted to ask you about
how you felt about that, as you know, kind of
(46:55):
the end of the season, because I don't know, coming
end of the season if we would all think of
I mean, obviously we know and Or's going to survive,
but all these other people, it's like, I don't expect
there to really to be a happy ending for a
lot of people at the end of the season, and
there was a way happier ending for a lot of
them that I was glad that they did survive than
(47:15):
I thought might.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
Yeah. I think I think it's a very good ending.
I like the fact that they have that quasi cliffhanger
because it feels right that even if they didn't have
a season two, if I go from this and pick
up and or in rogue one. I'm okay with that.
(47:42):
It works. It still works, you know, kill me or
take me in boom and the next time you see him,
Oh okay, Well it's like that whole serial mentality. Maybe
I'll get an episode that fills in those too late
or something like that. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think
it's very effective. I think that the part of it
(48:05):
that I still I don't know. I mean, this is
the thing that I'm trying to sort of like hold
on to here is, you know, as we're talking about
the ending and everything, and we're coming to the close
of the discussion and everything, how do you feel about
the quasi sexual energy that Dider and Cyril are given
(48:26):
off at the end of this Like it just feels weird.
You know.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
It's one of those things where I pretty much remember.
I was trying to remember it. I thought, I think
we talked about this a little bit when we actually
discussed you know, the episode for six o two club,
you know, back when it came out. And look, I mean,
(48:56):
what's weird about it is that it's not all that
an ununderstandable that in this moment of incredibly heightened emotion,
there's this you know, she's had this person save her,
and then she has this person who seems to just
(49:19):
be there for her when she almost could have died,
right and and so yes, I think it's incredibly weird,
and I agree with you on that.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (49:34):
Other than that, though, I mean, I don't know it. Yeah,
it's it's not the greatest. And again, I still, you know,
the weird part about this is that I'm still left
wondering as to exactly what his purpose is on the
(49:57):
show other than the fact that he's like there to
save her at the end. It still seems just incredibly
strange to me.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
So no, that's it, you know, that's it. Cyril's a
character I still struggle with. It's the one major criticism
I'll have, and I'll wrap myself up with this one.
Is for some reason, there's a part of me that
just feels that the wrap up with the aftermath of
(50:27):
the riot. I'm very satisfied with what they do with
the Indoor, getting everybody to the ship and the way
it ends with Luthen, but I don't feel that it
was wrapped up neatly enough with Deirdre and the Imperial Garrison.
I would have liked to see something extra there establishing Okay,
(50:49):
we've quelled it, and like her having a moment where
she's like, I'm going to have to go back and
report this, and she's going to go back kind of humiliated,
tail between her legs, this that she champion and was
so focused on, and we don't need to see her
go there, but like at least have a moment where
she's like realizing, she's like, oh my career just took
(51:10):
a massive hita. You know that I would have liked that.
And also, you know, it's just a little too unresolved
with her and Ceial, so you know.
Speaker 3 (51:23):
Yeah, I agree. I do think it's it's a strange thing.
And I again I think that I said it from
you know, then the beginning of our discussions that he's
just the one storyline that I just don't quite understand
(51:43):
and I don't quite get. But I think that on
a whole for me, I give this season probably like two.
I'd say I give this season four point seventy five
out of and the reason it can't be a full
on five is because the serial storyline, even by the end,
(52:08):
still doesn't quite make sense.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
I wind up giving it a four because it wraps
up well that if the ending of your movie is
the best part of the movie, then you'll forgive a
lot of stuff. If the beginning of your movie is
the best part of your movie, then the ending you've
burned all your goodwill. By the end. This does the
right thing, which is it settles itself down and gets
(52:32):
everything out. For me, the serial storyline is more of
a detriment to it. Yeah, it never feels like it
finds its place again. None of this is the fault
of the actors with it. None of this is the
fault of anything except they just didn't seem to know
(52:54):
in the writer's room how to make that one work.
I understand, it's the inciting blah blah blah blah. So
I wound up with a four. In a crankier day,
I probably wound up giving it a three and a half.
But at the end of this rewatch series overall four
star series.
Speaker 3 (53:11):
Nice man, that's great. Well, you know, if people wanted
to catch up with you then and see what you've
got going as we look towards and or season two,
where can they find you?
Speaker 1 (53:25):
Well, gosh, you can find me. As Kessel Junkie out
there in the wild space of the Internet, and you
can find me right here on the network, co hosting
a show called house Lights with Darren Moser and Tristan Radel,
where we have a lot of fun talking about different
directors and their movie efforts and everything. It's a time
come on by and hang out. And speaking of hanging out,
(53:45):
I find myself over the six oh two Club, which
is someplace that is where people can find you online.
But where else can they find you?
Speaker 3 (53:54):
Yeah, you can find me all over social media and
the named Matt rushing Zo two. Of course, here on
the network, you'll find me the show called Our Post
with Drake Kaufman as we talked about every single chapter
the Harry Potter series, one chapter at a time. You also
find me outside of the six poho two Club on
the TFM network talking about a lot of different Star
Trek shows, Warp five, Artificial Tango, Saddle Up, Strange, We're
(54:18):
talking about Strange New Worlds. You know, we've got to
the Journey or the ORB. I mean, there's so many
great shows over there, so I hope you'll check all
of those out. But John, you know, I think it's
I think it's Corelli and whiskey night over at the temple.
So I think it's time to close these negotiations.
Speaker 1 (54:39):
Perfect timing. I also want to have them replace the
chimes with a gong. Fantastic. That would be pretty cool. Good,
good way to bring us back. So Master Rushing negotiations
are closed.
Speaker 3 (54:59):
Join the Revolution, Join the Nerd Party on program
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!