February 24, 2025 • 58 mins
"Stories allow us to explore the world."
Join us for an inspiring conversation with Patricia Crisafulli, New York Times bestselling author, as she delves into the power of storytelling at any age. Patricia challenges the notion that aging is a decline, instead viewing it as an opportunity to reflect, share wisdom, and keep creating. She discusses her unique approach to mystery writing, weaving historical artifacts into her narratives to connect the past with the present. Learn about her creative process, research methods, and how mysteries can enhance critical thinking and problem-solving skills.
📖 Topics Covered:
✅ The power of storytelling as we age
✅ Using historical artifacts to craft compelling mysteries
✅ The importance of provenance in writing
✅ How mysteries sharpen critical thinking
✅ Embracing creativity and living fully
Subscribe for more insightful conversations!
#Storytelling #MysteryWriting #AgingGracefully #PatriciaCrisafulli Sponsored by Royal Hospice Oregon
Join us for an inspiring conversation with Patricia Crisafulli, New York Times bestselling author, as she delves into the power of storytelling at any age. Patricia challenges the notion that aging is a decline, instead viewing it as an opportunity to reflect, share wisdom, and keep creating. She discusses her unique approach to mystery writing, weaving historical artifacts into her narratives to connect the past with the present. Learn about her creative process, research methods, and how mysteries can enhance critical thinking and problem-solving skills.
📖 Topics Covered:
✅ The power of storytelling as we age
✅ Using historical artifacts to craft compelling mysteries
✅ The importance of provenance in writing
✅ How mysteries sharpen critical thinking
✅ Embracing creativity and living fully
Subscribe for more insightful conversations!
#Storytelling #MysteryWriting #AgingGracefully #PatriciaCrisafulli Sponsored by Royal Hospice Oregon
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
It might have been the first time that you were told you couldn't do something and you said,
(00:05):
"Oh, yes, I can."
Or you might have stepped in as an advocate for someone.
Or you might have seen generational differences in your family that is a young kid.
You don't pay attention to.
And then suddenly you realize, wow, the world I live in is different than the world.
Whatever it is, it could be any kind of theme.
(00:26):
But individual, smaller stories, anecdotes, this contains huge universal wisdom.
So rather than trying to write the history of the world, capture those emotionally charged,
positive or negative, emotionally charged, meaningful moments of story.
(00:48):
They have something to teach you about you and your world.
[Music]
And now the podcast we're together, we discuss proactive aging on your terms,
connecting to the professional advice of our special guests,
(01:10):
while creating better days throughout the aging process.
Now here's your host, Mark Turnbull.
Hello everyone and welcome back to another lively discussion on aging today.
We are the podcast where together we're exploring the many options to aging on your terms.
You can find aging today and our past nine years of programming on our website.
(01:33):
All you got to do is go to agingtoday.us.
And then I want to say thank you for all of you that have been following over the last nine
years.
It's been a privilege to walk beside you and thank you for walking beside us as well.
Well as you know this is a podcast about aging and we always say that if you're not too busy
(01:55):
being born, you're too busy aging.
And we're going to be addressing the big question is when you do get to that place where
you've aged and you're at that place of retirement, what do you do with all of the vast
knowledge and wisdom in your retirement?
(02:17):
And I think it's so important to capture that and who better to capture that than a person
that is great in storytelling.
And so we've invited many of you already know she's a she's a past friend of the program
and she's been on aging today.
It's Patricia, Chris, fully and she's a New York Times best selling author and she's a mystery
(02:42):
novelist and a woman full of energy, knowledge and wisdom.
Patricia, welcome back to aging today.
Thank you so much.
I've been looking forward to this.
Yeah.
Well, as usual, we're looking forward to having the conversation with you because you're
engaging.
You have such a vast depth in your pool of knowledge and wisdom.
(03:06):
And so let's let's begin to draw up on that.
But for those that have not had a chance to meet you, we always start out with what's in your
story.
What Patricia is in your story?
What has led you to this place in your life where you've become a New York Times best
selling author, a mystery novelist and on and on and goes and more?
(03:28):
Okay.
Well, for me, it's my writing journey has been very consistent.
It's been the dream of my heart since I was a young child.
I tell this story when I was seven years old, I had this big idea in my head and I took
a pencil and a piece of paper and I wrote down this huge epic that had been swirling in
my brain and I got four whole sentences down.
(03:52):
Clearly at the age of seven, I didn't quite understand what it meant to capture an entire
story like an an 80,000 word novel like my new one that's coming out this fall.
The journey of the writer is taking an idea, a concept, a story, a conflict, a coming together,
(04:13):
whatever that is and making the story out of it because from time in memorial storytelling
is how we humans defined who we are, what matters to us, what we believe in and where we're
going.
We think of the myths, we think of sacred story, we think of indigenous stories, all these
pieces of wisdom come together and the same applies in our own lives.
(04:37):
We have our story.
So for me, my story began as a young child discovering I loved to write through school,
through this that became a news journalist at the local paper when I was in college.
It is an intern through becoming a business journalist in New York and then Chicago, then
becoming a communications consultant, which is still my day job.
(05:02):
I work with large companies across the US helping to define and convey and articulate
their stories.
And then in my personal creative world, writing short stories, having my Anita Harbor mystery
series, again, stories.
To whether it's fact or fiction, it's something I've made up or something I'm reflecting
(05:27):
on, story contains my truth and I think this is valuable for anyone to look at their story
to say, what is my truth?
How have I explored it and expressed it and maybe how has my perception of it changed over
the years?
That's wisdom.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
(05:48):
And I think we all admire great storytellers and we all admire people that can put the
pen to the paper and begin to tell that story and so that it's memorable, it's exciting,
it's riveting, it's engaging.
What are some of the things that you've picked up over your life story of being a writer
(06:14):
and learning the craft of what it takes to be that engaging?
Well, I think there's two parts.
There's learning the craft and practicing the craft.
The second one is the most important.
So we're going to start with the second one, which is practicing the craft.
If you want to write, you got to write.
(06:35):
And we all are not very good at it in the beginning.
We don't know what we don't know and then we do know what we don't know and that's
even more than we thought.
So it's whether it's joining a writing group or taking a class at your community writer studio,
many cities have these.
Your library may have a writing club or you might be able to get together with a few friends
(06:59):
and say, hey, let's trade pieces and give each other feedback and encouragement.
Just keep writing.
And as you do, you'll see where you're comfortable, where you struggle, where somebody gives you
feedback, like, wow, you went from eye to weed to they, you know, first, but whatever it is.
(07:20):
That's craft that you can learn.
Once you know what you don't know, then you can explore.
I took it to the end degree.
I went back to school at 52 and got a master's in fine arts from Northwestern and creative
writing.
It's a workshop or something as formal as an MFA program.
(07:43):
Keep learning and engages your intellect.
It keeps you fresh, puts you in community with others and you're learning a craft and then
you practice, practice, practice, practice.
I love the fact that you did this at the age of 52.
And I mean, what was going through your mind?
I mean, I can think of all kinds of excuses at the age of 52, why you shouldn't be doing
(08:08):
this, listening to all of the naysayers out there that are saying, you shouldn't be doing
this and you should be retiring or at least thinking about retiring.
You should be building a nest egg.
You should be building your financial empire so you can retire.
And yet here you wander off at the age of 52 and you take it.
(08:28):
It was a program.
I worked all day and I went to school at night, but here's the thing.
All those things are important.
We all have to work.
We have to say we might be helping younger people in our lives, say for there, we may have
charities, we support or are volunteering that's also important in our own careers and our
(08:52):
businesses and whatever.
So the answer is yes, all of the above.
So what I found when I went decided to go into the MFA, what propelled me was to reach my
goal of becoming a novelist.
I had written short stories.
I'd been published.
I even won a couple of minor awards for my short stories.
(09:13):
I wanted to get to that long form fiction, that life long goal.
And I said, my life long goal is worth it.
And I'm going to make this investment in myself.
For me personally, any kind of education at any age is so important for our minds, for
our to see the world to become critical thinkers and creative expressors.
(09:38):
Education is fantastic.
So I knew I was going into this for personal development, not because I was going to go
off and make a scamillion dollars by selling my movie script.
No, I knew when I was after for craft practice and community.
(09:58):
It didn't take away from those other things like working and saving, but I had to prioritize
other things.
I had to say, what can I give up?
You know what I gave up?
I gave up a lot of time wasteers like I didn't talk on the telephone as much.
I didn't watch filler television, right?
(10:20):
Like listen, you want to watch a good streaming?
I can, that's your destination.
Go for it.
I streamlined my life, still worked full time, still did other things and was able to complete
this because I found I had both time and energy.
Yeah.
(10:40):
More than I realized and that in itself was quite, quite a lesson.
What would be the difference in a Patricia, Chrisophaly as a writer in your 20s as opposed
to 52?
What?
Or now older than 52, but we're not going to put a number on that.
(11:02):
Yeah, what?
Just say it's a few years.
But I think that, you know, here's my point.
My point is that, yeah, all of the experiences that happen in our younger
years are setting the table for something fantastic in our later years.
(11:23):
And so many of us in our later years dismiss everything that went on in the earlier years
and saying, well, I'm done.
I'm no longer useful to society.
And yet at the same time, I'm going, wait a minute.
This is the time when you should be bringing all of the nuggets of truth and wisdom to the
(11:46):
table to share with the rest of us to build up the younger generations.
And that's what you're doing.
Well, so a couple things.
The difference for me personally in 20s, to 50 and beyond was the fact of, I had gained
a confidence in myself.
You know, for so many of us when we're in our 20s, it's a time of discovery.
(12:10):
But it's also a time of feeling incredibly vulnerable and wondering, am I good enough,
am I worth enough, am I this enough, and that enough, and all that can really be an impediment
to expression.
In addition, there are some of my fondest pieces that I wrote in my 20s that express someone
(12:31):
seeing the world in a new way and a developing way who goes from, I saw myself as this.
And now I'm that.
I did an essay on the first time I ever went to the developing world.
I was in West Africa.
And it's an essay I love and I was 20 something when I wrote it.
And it was so vulnerable because I realized how scared I was by being outside a comfort zone.
(12:59):
Now I've had that experience many times more now, but capturing it then was helpful.
So conversely, we go to the other end of the timeline and we think of now I have so much
more to say, I can reflect on my own experiences back then through this wisdom of where I ended
(13:20):
up.
And as a fiction writer, I can also create a character in the case of my protagonist Gabriela,
she's 44 years younger than I am.
So I mean she and I might listen to different music, she and I might have different experiences
with what the technology she uses now or what I used in my 40s.
(13:42):
But I know what it was like to be a single mom then and she was.
She is then.
I know what it's like to be in a relationship later as she goes through and I went through
25 years ago.
All these things add my ability to create an empathetic character.
(14:02):
So whether it's fiction and we're looking back or it's memoir and we're making sense
of our lives or we're looking at now, what do I have to say?
It's about having a body of knowledge about the world, about our view of the world, about
our time stamp in the world, certain events we read or experienced or felt in our bodies
(14:28):
or our communities.
And it's all very valuable.
Each and our own way, we are witnesses to a collective history.
Maybe I grew up rural and it wasn't exactly, you know, the crossroads of dramatic change.
But even there as I look back on my early experiences, I can see the through line of
(14:51):
change and what it means to be a person of this world and a member of society.
So wherever you are, grab your story, look back with empathy and understanding and share
now, not with the fact that, oh, I earned this place, but we're learning from each other's
(15:14):
stories because we need to be in tune with those younger emerging stories as well.
Absolutely.
And one of the things that I find interesting in life is when I talk to people and I talk
to people about life is a story and not only is life a story, but your story is another
(15:34):
story inside of that bigger story of life.
How do you convey that to people?
How do you take, in other words, I know you do it through your books, but when you're talking
to people, how do you express that?
Well, it's interesting because one of the things I love to do is I love to teach and coach
(15:57):
other writers is something I kind of do on the side.
And there's an organization that's shout out to them out here in Eugene, Oregon called
Word Crafters.
And I have been one of their instructors, you know, for a weekend conference or something.
And here's what I like to say, whether it's something we've made up or it's something
that we're exploring like a memory or some combination.
(16:21):
Our stories, writ small, reflect a much bigger world.
So one of the things I say to people is if you've got a memory that just pushes on you
and it just picks your brain, remember me, remember me, it's got something to tell you.
Now it might be, I don't know, a memory of going to the county fair or it might be,
(16:46):
you know, something that happened at school.
It might be this little, perfect little crystal of an experience.
But if you poke at it a little bit and say, why is this so important?
Why was this so poignant or why did I have all this emotion around it?
(17:07):
It reflects the bigger world.
It might have been the first time that you were told you couldn't do something and you
said, oh yes, I can.
Or you might have stepped in as an advocate for someone or you might have seen generational
differences in your family that is a young kid, you don't pay attention to.
(17:30):
And then suddenly you realize, wow, the world I live in is different than the world, whatever
it is.
It could be any kind of theme, but individual, smaller stories, anecdotes.
This contains huge universal wisdom.
So rather than trying to write the history of the world, capture those emotionally charged,
(17:55):
positive or negative, emotionally charged, meaningful moments of story.
They have something to teach you about you and your world.
Yeah, absolutely.
That teaching and the knowledge that you're passing on through your writing is to enhance
and lift up other people's lives and building morale, building inspiration to maybe I can
(18:23):
capture some of the stories I think about my grandparents.
And I used to sit around the breakfast table as a kid and listen to the stories that my
grandfather would share if his experiences in the logging camps.
Oh, whole another world.
He used to say, Mark, today they talk about the good old days.
(18:47):
Let me tell you firsthand, there was nothing good about the good old days.
And from his perspective, he grew up at the age of 12 in a logging camp.
And he would go into these, because his dad died of a heart attack, he had to help his mom
make ends meet.
So he went to work in a logging camp, cutting wood to keep the stoves fired up so that when
(19:12):
the men came in from the woods, they would take off their clothes and then you got all these
wet clothes that are drying in these tents and then they would, they'd be sleeping in
these bunks and they didn't have mattresses so they would sleep on fur bows and then the
bed bugs would get in there.
(19:33):
Then they'd have to soak everything and caracene.
He goes, "Trust me, there was nothing good about the good old days."
Those are, that's not a romantic story.
But the story was amazing.
It was riveting.
It was taking and transporting me back into time of what it was really like to live in that
kind of an environment and how would I respond?
(19:57):
How would I adapt and you just do?
It's part of life.
And so another way of looking at that is to say, what I admire was this 12 year old who
just did what had to be done, a sense of loyalty, a sense of responsibility and a sense and
a resilience.
(20:18):
So part of that could be, well, gee, I'm very grateful so it inspires gratitude in us, right?
Number two, it's also a conviction that your grandfather and your parents probably had
of like, "I don't want my kids to have to go through this."
Right?
Thank you.
Our dream is parents as we want to make things easier and better for the next generation
(20:41):
to not have to struggle and face such hardships.
But at the same time to share the stories that explain what it's like to be resilient.
So whether we're facing a pandemic or the incursion of technology that feels very frightening
and unsettling, we know that is humans when we converse about our experiences, when we
(21:06):
share our feelings, when we reach into emotional reserves, we find strength and resilience and
an ability to stand up for ourselves and others in a way to advocate that we say, "Well, shoot,
that's what grandma and grandpa were doing during the Depression."
That's what mom and dad were talking about.
(21:28):
It's in our DNA.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm also thinking about how you've got all these stories that have been collected by all
these great individual lives.
And as you know, this is a podcast about the aging process.
(21:48):
As we age, if you're not too busy being born, you're too busy aging and you're too busy collecting
stories.
Then you get to that place in your life when they say, "Okay, it's time for you to retire."
My biggest thing about retirement is don't retire and just do nothing.
(22:11):
And find some outlet, find some way to continue to tell your story to the rest of the world.
And sometimes that can be done through writing.
Yes.
Tell us a little bit about what you're doing to encourage and inspire those of us that are
the boomers that are getting ready to retire to be able to capture your stories on paper.
(22:38):
And maybe there's a novel in there someplace.
Who knows?
That's exactly right.
So number first thing I say is, I hope my example is, you know, some people, you know, their
life's journey is different.
They get published very young.
They get the book deal and their 30s and off they go.
You know, my path went nonfiction first because I was a journalist.
(23:00):
I had my first book out at 39 and then books in my 40s, etc.
And fiction waited for me until I had a much different age.
You know, that was my path.
So number one, writing knows no age.
It's just right, your story.
To give yourself permission, I would have, would I have liked to have, I had my writing
(23:26):
journey be different sooner, faster?
Sometimes I say, well, yeah, but I go, well, wait a minute.
There are certain aspects to my writing now.
For example, in mysteries and creating small town characters that aren't just facing usual
mystery, but there are a lot of existential questions about being an other, about belonging,
(23:49):
about what community that takes some experience.
So first of all, own the fact that you've got something to say that you want to explore.
Don't worry about the output as much as the input when you begin.
I have memories, I have thoughts, I have experiences and I want to just start to write them down.
(24:12):
Number two, I also want to look at how I get motivated.
Maybe it's a, a, a, a class, a writing group, a presentation at your library, ask your librarians,
hey, I want to start doing this. You know of a group, chances are they know that.
(24:32):
And then begin to talk to other folks that you know who are doing the same thing.
Keep each other accountable.
Hey, I'm going to write five pages this week or two paid, whatever, what are you going
to do?
Create community because it doesn't matter where it goes.
(24:53):
In fact, I would say if you try to say, oh, well, this novel and this novel hit the best
seller list.
So I need to write this and it needs to be sci fi and you're like, no, maybe that's not
you.
Look at your input.
Worry about that first.
Find community, find a class or a group and just begin.
(25:15):
It is so rewarding.
Over time, you know, the output will find its way.
And it doesn't necessarily have to end in a novel.
It doesn't necessarily have to, it could be just writing down your memoirs for your family
to carry on.
(25:36):
And there's so many forms and ways to be able to capture that in paper on a book form
that they're going on in the world today.
And there's more.
Yeah.
So yes, you could self publish a memoir and give it to your three kids and your two nephews
or four nieces in the neighbors, okay?
Yeah.
Or, you know, you could catch the brass ring and then out it goes and you've got this thing.
(25:59):
But there's also blogs and websites that you might go to that are, for example, there's
one called 60 spelled out, sci x, dy, a, and d, me, 60 and me.
It's for women over the age of 60.
They're always looking for contributors and a lot of it is about advice or this or that.
(26:21):
There are a ton of websites blogs.
You might belong to a community organization that has a blog and you're like, well, is a volunteer
who does this and that.
I have a story to share.
So there are many little outlets where if you have a story or an experience or some advice
(26:42):
can find an avenue into the world that's between, you know, making, you know, the three
kids read your book and, um, and having, you know, an international book tour.
A lot of things in between, but it starts with input.
My, what do I have to put into my story machine?
(27:02):
Yeah.
Right.
Right.
And how can I stay motivated?
It is not selfish.
It is not a waste of time.
It is not a flight of fancy.
It is exploration.
It is just as important as any other kind of meditation or mindfulness or, uh, introspection
(27:23):
that you might engage in because stories allow us to explore the world and our place in
it.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
How do you see aging in the creative expression?
Okay.
So I was thinking about this getting ready for today's conversation and I have to say, I
(27:45):
did have this feeling of like, ooh, aging.
It's one of those words, because there can be a negative connotation, right?
You know, I put on all my creams at night to reverse the aging process.
My hair shouldn't be this brown, okay?
So we have this, but aging, think of the maturing of, um, of a crop of a stand of beautiful
(28:13):
trees.
Think of, you know, the rose bushes that somebody tends year over year until they more profusely
bloom.
Think of fine wine or good cheese or whatever else we consume.
We know that aging enhances flavor and experience and joy.
(28:35):
And aging is not becoming old and outdated and irrelevant and decrepit and what we
think of as right?
It is, it is maturing.
It is developing.
It is becoming fuller for creative expression.
(28:56):
It is so essential that we don't believe that a life is truncated at a certain age.
Well, you're 37.8 years old and nothing more to say.
No.
At every age, there is value in whatever story we share or want to explore.
(29:17):
So as in a community where we are aging today, we recognize the body of our knowledge and
our perspective, born of many decades that allows us to see the world now, a fresh and
new to be surprised, to be inspired and also to bring the perspective of, yes, I remember
(29:44):
what this looked like.
I remember what this was like.
I remember what my parents told me.
I remember our generational history.
We bring all of that to our stories.
And as they creatively is a good thing.
Absolutely.
And author, your unique approach to your creativity brings another perspective to the table.
(30:10):
Did you know that mysteries are one of the most popular genres of all books?
Patricia Crease of Foley believes one of the reasons for this popularity is that mysteries
engage our brains in critical thinking and creative problem solving.
This did you know segment was brought to you by this week's guest and sponsored by Royal
(30:31):
Hospice organ.
And so talk a little bit about your style, your uniqueness as a mystery novelist and what
sets you apart in that mystery genre from other authors.
Well, I love history.
(30:52):
So I am a mystery novelist.
My stories are all my Anita Harbor mystery series is all set in the present day.
But what makes me unique is there is always an artifact.
It's fictional, but it's true to life.
That is at the center of the story.
So there's the modern day mystery and being in the kind of the cozy genre, you know, there's
(31:16):
a dead body in the library lawn or floating in the river.
There's some murder and mayhem going on, but there's also an artifact.
It is an embodiment of history and my authenticator main character, Gabriela literally has to
figure out what is this and where did this come from, etc.
(31:37):
And the first novel, it was a medieval cross.
And the second novel, it's a nautical schematic from the early 19th century and the third
novel, which is coming out this fall called the Secrets of the Old Post Cemetery.
It is a revolutionary, revolutionary war, era map.
(31:57):
And the reason I bring these artifacts in is I want to literally bring history past into
the present for relevance.
So there is the, it's rare, it's cool.
It's worth a lot of money factor.
But beyond that.
Everything we have.
Did you know that the RMS Queen Mary designed to carry 2139 passengers in luxury accommodations
(32:25):
was used as a troop ship in World War II and carried 16,000 soldiers at a time.
This did you know moment was provided by today's guest and is brought to you by Royal
Hostess of Oregon evoking themes that are universal and timeless.
(32:47):
What inspired you though to bring in an artifact that's that's a really interesting approach.
And then how did you go about choosing because you've got three novels, three artifacts,
correct?
Yes, absolutely.
Okay.
So how did you go about choosing those artifacts?
Well, it started with the first novel, which is the Secrets of Onida Harbor.
(33:08):
And the artifact there is a little tiny medieval cross.
And I chose this one because I am obsessed with medieval art.
I've always loved it.
Don't ask me.
But it's, you know, from the four, 1800s and the 1500s and it's old and it tends to be
rare and have a lot of unusual materials in it.
(33:31):
And I did a ton of research.
In fact, it was the basis of my creative thesis at Northwestern.
So for me choosing the first artifact was pretty easy.
The second novel I wanted to choose something very different.
Okay.
Before you get into the second, I got to ask the question, how did that pop into your head?
(33:52):
Like, okay, might that the center of my mystery novels, I want an artifact.
I mean, did, were you just sitting around the breakfast table one morning and go, oh,
that's the, I mean, ding.
Is something went on?
Is that, yeah, I remember creating this artifact in a, in a previous work when I was, and I
was washing my hair.
Okay.
And I, maybe I was stimulating my brain.
(34:14):
So I'm washing my hair going, what am I going to call this thing?
I said, and I was, I was saying words out loud in the shower.
And I said the cross of Sienna.
And I just said it.
And I was like, wow, that's cool.
What the heck is it?
And so I invented a thing and a provenance back to Catherine of Sienna.
(34:37):
It was a woman before her time, born in like 1340 and, and, and whatever.
I, I, I, I'm either really creative or a little, cuckoo.
But that's how it started.
It just literally popped in my brain as I was washing my hair.
And then I was like, that's my thing.
(34:58):
I love history.
I love going to museums.
You know, again, I tapped into my real experience and then creating a character who was an
authenticator and a librarian was, was a natural progression.
So out of my own interest came this.
And then for each subsequent novel, the secrets of still waters, chasm, which is environmental.
(35:22):
I wanted to look at the deep water lakes in New York State and, and, and, and put a, a
storyline around that, therefore coming up with something nautical.
I don't want to, I don't want to be, give a spoiler was a natural outgrowth of some research.
In the third novel, which is coming out this October, the secrets of the old post cemetery,
(35:45):
I knew enough about the history of my hometown on the shores of Lake Ontario, my original
hometown, not where I live now, that I said, Oh, there's been three wars fought here.
The French and Indian War, the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, it is steeped into this
area.
I'm going to create an artifact that maps this shoreline that contains a story, not only
(36:12):
of its time, but of a bitter, bitter family rivalry, not ours, but I mean, in the fictional,
the fictional family.
Yeah, yeah.
And is the map, are these artifacts real?
No.
They're, they're, they're, they're, they're just hard to fit.
Yeah, they're true to life.
They're inspired by, but they're, they exist in my head.
(36:34):
There is no cross of Siena, except in my head.
And there is no schematic like there is in book two and this thing that I call the traitor's
map does not exist.
But there's enough truth and it historically that I can say you will feel like it's not
(36:58):
suddenly, you know, this, you know, this amazing glowing diamond came from outer space.
No, no, it came out of history.
Yeah.
Talk a little bit about that process of, you know, how you research all of the, you know,
facts to, to build the storyline because you got to make it credible.
(37:20):
Right.
So this is fun.
So I'm going to tell you a story because I, again, this is engaging all parts of our joy
and our interests and our, our sense of adventure, right?
So and if you're going to write a story, go do this.
Whether you're looking literally going back to the, the old family farm, which has been
(37:41):
sold and you're looking at the fence posts and where they came to, whatever, do it, go
into the field, do the research, look at the photo albums, talk to the, it's part of the
joy.
So for me, I'm creating a 14th century cross about this tall and about this wide tiny and
it has some structural flaws, all of which what did it look like?
(38:04):
Well, has to be gold with jewels.
No, that's a cliche.
Yeah.
And then I found out that they didn't start to facet jewels the way we think of in our
jewelry now until about the 1600s.
So there went that before a jewel was a cabochon cut flat with a rounded top.
(38:24):
How did I know that?
I call, I went to a museum.
I spoke to one of their gemologists so there you that you can have that job title apparently
in some places.
Explain that to me.
But I still wasn't convinced it should be precious metal with, because it feels like everything
else.
I went to a museum in New York City on a business trip to the Morgan Library and I went through
(38:50):
a wonderful display on Emily Dickinson, nothing to do with my novel and I was putting on my
coat on a very cold day and I dropped my gloves.
So I bent down, pick up my gloves and when I raised up, I came eye to eye with a display.
I had not seen of a chalice from 14th century Siena that was covered in enamel.
(39:20):
Something called bass tie enameling, which was perfected in Italy in around the 13th century.
And I was like, "Oh, now I know what this looks like.
It's this, it's got precious metal, it's got the low relief carving, it's got bass tie enameling.
(39:41):
It came to life for me through this research, which it happened because I dropped my gloves
in the lobby of the museum."
Yeah, yeah.
So that's what I mean by engaging in the adventure.
It's a great story for me.
And it also shows that we are living out the mysteries of our own lives.
(40:04):
I'm still trying to picture how they had attached jewelry to whether it was a cross or
whether it was any kind of a chalice, whatever.
So did they use a glue or?
No, okay.
So I'm a little confused with that.
Okay.
So, I mean, so we know what it looks like when we set a jewel into a ring, you know, there's
(40:30):
that little facet.
So, if you look at some medieval art that's got those cabochon jewels, you know, there's
a depression around it, the jewel set in, and then it's crimped in.
This is something that's enameled.
It looks like little tiles that are like little mini stained glass windows.
(40:52):
So what they would do is they would have their shape like a chalice or cross a pendant or
something.
They would be carving low relief.
So it would be 3D, right?
But it wouldn't, and in that, so you'd have like if you had somebody's face, their nose would
stick out, their eyes would be in, you know, they're hit.
It would be carved in and then they would apply layers of translucent colored enamel that
(41:20):
would make the garment blue and the hair brown and the wrap red.
And it looked like a little stained glass window.
So carving and then layers of enamel that built up this gorgeous image.
I will send you a link to the chalice of St. Michael's Abbey from the Morgan Library
(41:47):
that you can either put in the show notes or at least you yourself.
You'll be able to see this.
It will just blow your mind.
Do you have that on your website?
I don't, but they have it on their website and I can share that with you.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
All right.
Sounds good.
Well, I mean, these are the kind of the fascinating things behind this story behind the
story.
And this is what we're going to all engage in as we tell our stories.
(42:11):
Now you might say, well, it's fine for her, but my gosh, that exhausts me.
Maybe you want to write about memories of how your mom and your grandma made preserves
every fall.
And that's a childhood memory.
Well, you're going to have to figure out, wait a minute, did they use a canner?
Was it enamel?
You're going to look at pictures and engaging in those things.
(42:33):
When you pick them up or maybe you have that, you realize there's a story in this thing
that I didn't fully appreciate before because touching it, looking at it, I'm recalling
something I heard 40 years ago or longer that I'd forgotten about.
(42:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It does it by telling that or digging in and finding out what how this was all good.
Yeah.
And then it opens up a whole new genre inside your mind.
And it also brings forth the smells.
Yes, smell is very evocative.
Yeah, touches and all the things that go into that.
(43:20):
And that's a joy, that discovery.
I think it really increases our mental capacity to take things in because we're becoming mindful
in the moment about a time.
We're not just like, oh, squirrel, I call it squirrel brain.
Oh, I got to do this and I got to go here.
It's like, I am focused on this thing.
(43:41):
I'm listening to someone explain to me how this was used or where it was.
I'm looking at a map.
I'm looking at these photographs.
I'm sharing this and it's going deep, not broad.
Yeah.
I want to get back to your mystery novel that's coming out in October and I don't know how
much you can share without spilling too much.
(44:01):
Talk about it.
But, okay, let's get back to this map.
So this map was a map from what era?
Again, it was this.
So, I was, I have a memory, which might be a false memory of being told something when
I was like in fourth or fifth grade, maybe sixth grade, about somebody created a spine app
(44:24):
for the British of the shoreline that showed the swamps and some areas where the continental
army kept their boats and their supplies or whatever.
But, and the person who made the map made it purposefully inaccurate.
So, I had this memory.
Well, guess what?
(44:44):
All the research in the world never turned this up.
So, I was like, maybe I made it up, maybe I was, I don't know.
So, but I loved this idea of a map, of a place that is inaccurate for reasons we can't
quite understand, but like notoriously inaccurate.
Like if you looked at it, you'd be like, I can't use this, right?
(45:08):
So I went, I know my, you know, my shoreline, I have fictionalized the area, I give it different
names.
I put a few features on there and then I went to a cartographer.
I met out here in Oregon and I said, if I give you a sketch, could you make a map for
(45:30):
me?
And he said, I would love to.
So, shout out to Dave I'mus, I am U.S. and his I'mus Geo, Geo Graphics is his website and
he made a map for me that I can then put in the book.
So you can see, it's very simple.
It's not exactly, it isn't this gorgeous, beautiful map.
(45:51):
It's a quickly hand sketch map, the way it would have been done back then.
It captures a place, but the inaccuracies tell the story of why someone would change the way
a place looks.
And I don't want to say too much about that, but as Gabriela herself is an authenticator and
(46:14):
is a librarian and as an adjunct in the history department at the local college tells her students,
each of these things has a story waiting to be told.
It is as if the object itself wants to tell you what it means.
(46:34):
And I like that is a story element and I also like it as metaphor for ourselves.
There is more to us than meets the eye.
We have an abundance of experiences and perspectives and rises and falls and all that and in all
of that, what we present to the world is a topography of our lives, but maybe some of the
(47:01):
faults and the flaws and the inaccuracies are really what make us interesting.
Excellent.
Well said.
So when someone reads your mystery novels, what do you hope that they will walk away with?
Well, I mean, the obvious is that I hope that they are entertained and I really hope that
(47:23):
they see that there is a lot going on in this third one, the secrets of the old post-Semitary.
We got a modern day murder mystery.
I mean, we got murderers and we got crime and we got all kinds of stuff going on.
And then there is this historic context of something that happened during the revolution
and we have this going on.
(47:45):
So we got a couple of tears.
You got to pay attention.
So I hope that that is going on, but there is something about mysteries in general that
I think are very important.
I mean, they are a very popular genre.
We all like to be smarter than the, than, or inspector Gammasha and Louise Penny's wonderful
novels.
(48:05):
We want to solve the crime along with that person, that expert.
It engages our minds, our critical thinking.
Like we got to connect the dots.
And we know the author is going to send us over here and it is going to be a red herring
and we are going to be off on a tangent and whatever.
But we connect the dots and I think this is a wonderful skill in our own lives because
(48:31):
there are going to be situations in daily life where we have a problem to solve or we
have a mystery to figure out or it may be something grand and exciting or it could be something
as I couldn't figure out why the event in my bathroom kept dripping water on my head
every time I call my hair.
(48:52):
Where was the condensation coming from?
Not very exciting, right?
But we have little, we connect dots and the more we can do that in a story and be entertained,
our brain starts to see patterns that tells us even the most difficult problems can be
addressed.
(49:13):
Even the most intractable and tractable mysteries can be solved.
There is a solution.
We just have to stick with it and wait for the next clue and the next one and the next
one.
And in the aging process as our brains become less active, you know, because of what we choose
(49:38):
to do with our lives.
Being can play such a huge role in exactly stimulating the mind in keeping the paths
clear and I love the way you described how we connect the dots and that's exactly what
our brains need to continue to do in our latter years.
Right.
And there might be ways of taking that skill if you're someone who is very good at this problem
(50:03):
solving.
Maybe you get up on a volunteer, a group at a, you know, the local community center or
a park or something that says that we know we have a project here.
We're trying to solve and you can bring your critical thinking and your creativity there
and say, I have life experience.
I have these things and I got to bring the loves puzzles and that can figure things out.
(50:28):
And I want to be part of this team.
And suddenly we find that there's an outlet for all that we have to give.
And you call this the second act.
Third act in my case, hey, I don't know.
I may have an eight act play going on here, but we're not done.
You know, yeah, yeah, and the occasion of my 35th birthday a while ago, I called it my dad
(50:53):
who then was, uh, sort of been 76 and I said, Oh, damn, I turned 35 and he said, well, consider
the alternative to not turning 35.
And that's so weird me up.
And so I said to him, you know, he was 41 years older than me.
Like dad, what's the secret?
And my, with my father, it was always the wisdom of what he didn't say as well as what he
(51:14):
did say.
He said, well, if you're alive, you better be living.
And he didn't say anything about this and that, but this very simple thing.
If you are alive, you better be living.
And I think that's great advice for every age.
If you have the gift of life, if you are up and your eyes are open and you're looking at
(51:35):
this world and you are, have a pulse and a way to breathe in and out and you can be present
in your life, then be living for whatever that appears to be for you.
It's a blessing and to go.
Well said.
(51:55):
And I was going to ask the question, you know, what would advice would you give to people
that are looking at that second act?
And I think you answered it right there.
I would quote my dear old dad, if you're alive, you better be living.
What a great place to end our conversation.
And if others that are listening want to learn more about your craft, the way you write
(52:20):
and the novels that you put together, what's your website?
Okay.
Best way to find me and my novels and things.
I mean, first of all, I'm on the usual places wherever they sell books.
Yeah, Barnes and Old dot com and all that good stuff.
Put in my name, they'll pop up.
My website is called faith, F-A-I-T-H, Hope, H-O-P-E and A-N-D, Fiction, F-I-C-T-I-O-N dot com.
(52:48):
The faith part is is not, you know, you know, tenants of the whatever.
It is faith in ourselves, the leap of faith, inspiration, most broadly defined hope.
I hope because without hope, we can't get ourselves out of bed, let alone create anything.
(53:08):
Fiction, why fiction?
Because I believe that even in made up stories, there is deep truth.
So faith, hope, and fiction dot com is where you'll find me, my creative path, more about
my books and more about writers who I engage with and also publish on my website.
And on your website, the one thing I appreciate is that you have a lot of short stories or
(53:31):
a lot of books and stories.
Yeah, stories essays and poems, right?
Exactly.
And there's no, by the way, it's my labor of love.
So even though I publish other people, there's no ads, there's no registration.
You can sign up for my newsletter if you want.
And if you don't, you can just come back.
There's no impediment between the story and you because that's one of my values.
(53:53):
I'm blessed to be able to do this and fund it through my other work because I wanted
fake hope and fiction dot com to be an oasis on the web like your wonderful podcast were
information and inspiration is available just for asking.
Okay.
So if somebody is listening right now and they are inspired by your life, your life's
(54:18):
work and the way you write and they want to explore that is there's, is there something
on your website that they can get in contact with you to kind of get some guidance?
Sure.
You know, there's a contact, Trisha page.
Somebody could send me an email through there.
Because you mentioned us something about a 60's.
(54:40):
Whoa, that's 60 in me.
That's just happened to be a place where I've blogged the most.
So number one, if somebody wants to know send me an email through my website, I will reply.
Number two.
It's your local I wherever you live, your local librarian for help finding a writer's group,
(55:00):
a book discussion group, a group where you can physically meet with other people.
I mean, zoom is lovely.
We do this.
We love this.
We can be anywhere.
But there's something that's special like I teach it word crafters here in Eugene, Oregon.
There is a group.
There's a place where you can go to learn more being community.
(55:21):
Start with your local library.
Do you know of a writer's group?
Do you know of a reader's group?
I want to explore more and it'll be the best gift you ever gave yourself.
Amen to that.
And Chris, Patricia, Christopher Lee, thank you so much for being on aging today.
And I can't wait for your new book to come out in October.
(55:43):
Well, I might have to come back then to talk about it.
Yeah.
And we've got to learn all about this map.
Yeah.
You know, it's a big, you know, it's, you're trying to fool the enemy.
So it's a fictionalized map of a map that was a hoax that was a Bruce that was a, yeah, but all
(56:04):
based on some kind of historical context, or probability.
I love that.
Love that.
It's very exciting.
All right.
Well, thanks again once again for being on aging today.
Thank you.
All right.
This is Mark Terrible.
Listen, I want to thank all of you for tuning into aging today.
We are the podcast where together we're exploring the many options to aging on your terms.
(56:28):
You can join us every Monday when we release a new conversation and on the aging process
and to your favorite podcast channel.
And remember this, we're all in the process of aging.
And as we age, we really are better together.
So stay young at heart.
You make me feel so young.
(56:52):
You make me feel like spring is from and every time I see your face, I'm such a happy
individual, the moment that you speak.
I want to go play hide and see.
I want to go and bounce the moon just like a toy balloon, well, you and I.
(57:16):
I'll just like a bullet, running across the metal.
They can have lots of, forget me night so you made me feel so young.
You made me feel there are songs to be sung, there will still be wrong and wonderful thing
to be fun.
(57:36):
And remember, I'm old and grey.
You've been listening to aging today, where together we explore the options to aging on
your terms.
Join Mark and his guest next week for another lively discussion on proactively aging on your
terms, connecting you to the professional advice of his special guests with the goal of
(57:57):
creating better days throughout the aging process.
Your host has been Mark Turnbull.
Join Mark and his guest every week on aging today, your podcast to exploring your options
for aging on your terms.
I want to go play hide and see what you want to see.
It might have been the first time that you were told you couldn't do something and you said,
(00:05):
"Oh, yes, I can."
Or you might have stepped in as an advocate for someone.
Or you might have seen generational differences in your family that is a young kid.
You don't pay attention to.
And then suddenly you realize, wow, the world I live in is different than the world.
Whatever it is, it could be any kind of theme.
(00:26):
But individual, smaller stories, anecdotes, this contains huge universal wisdom.
So rather than trying to write the history of the world, capture those emotionally charged,
positive or negative, emotionally charged, meaningful moments of story.
(00:48):
They have something to teach you about you and your world.
[Music]
And now the podcast we're together, we discuss proactive aging on your terms,
connecting to the professional advice of our special guests,
(01:10):
while creating better days throughout the aging process.
Now here's your host, Mark Turnbull.
Hello everyone and welcome back to another lively discussion on aging today.
We are the podcast where together we're exploring the many options to aging on your terms.
You can find aging today and our past nine years of programming on our website.
(01:33):
All you got to do is go to agingtoday.us.
And then I want to say thank you for all of you that have been following over the last nine
years.
It's been a privilege to walk beside you and thank you for walking beside us as well.
Well as you know this is a podcast about aging and we always say that if you're not too busy
(01:55):
being born, you're too busy aging.
And we're going to be addressing the big question is when you do get to that place where
you've aged and you're at that place of retirement, what do you do with all of the vast
knowledge and wisdom in your retirement?
(02:17):
And I think it's so important to capture that and who better to capture that than a person
that is great in storytelling.
And so we've invited many of you already know she's a she's a past friend of the program
and she's been on aging today.
It's Patricia, Chris, fully and she's a New York Times best selling author and she's a mystery
(02:42):
novelist and a woman full of energy, knowledge and wisdom.
Patricia, welcome back to aging today.
Thank you so much.
I've been looking forward to this.
Yeah.
Well, as usual, we're looking forward to having the conversation with you because you're
engaging.
You have such a vast depth in your pool of knowledge and wisdom.
(03:06):
And so let's let's begin to draw up on that.
But for those that have not had a chance to meet you, we always start out with what's in your
story.
What Patricia is in your story?
What has led you to this place in your life where you've become a New York Times best
selling author, a mystery novelist and on and on and goes and more?
(03:28):
Okay.
Well, for me, it's my writing journey has been very consistent.
It's been the dream of my heart since I was a young child.
I tell this story when I was seven years old, I had this big idea in my head and I took
a pencil and a piece of paper and I wrote down this huge epic that had been swirling in
my brain and I got four whole sentences down.
(03:52):
Clearly at the age of seven, I didn't quite understand what it meant to capture an entire
story like an an 80,000 word novel like my new one that's coming out this fall.
The journey of the writer is taking an idea, a concept, a story, a conflict, a coming together,
(04:13):
whatever that is and making the story out of it because from time in memorial storytelling
is how we humans defined who we are, what matters to us, what we believe in and where we're
going.
We think of the myths, we think of sacred story, we think of indigenous stories, all these
pieces of wisdom come together and the same applies in our own lives.
(04:37):
We have our story.
So for me, my story began as a young child discovering I loved to write through school,
through this that became a news journalist at the local paper when I was in college.
It is an intern through becoming a business journalist in New York and then Chicago, then
becoming a communications consultant, which is still my day job.
(05:02):
I work with large companies across the US helping to define and convey and articulate
their stories.
And then in my personal creative world, writing short stories, having my Anita Harbor mystery
series, again, stories.
To whether it's fact or fiction, it's something I've made up or something I'm reflecting
(05:27):
on, story contains my truth and I think this is valuable for anyone to look at their story
to say, what is my truth?
How have I explored it and expressed it and maybe how has my perception of it changed over
the years?
That's wisdom.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
(05:48):
And I think we all admire great storytellers and we all admire people that can put the
pen to the paper and begin to tell that story and so that it's memorable, it's exciting,
it's riveting, it's engaging.
What are some of the things that you've picked up over your life story of being a writer
(06:14):
and learning the craft of what it takes to be that engaging?
Well, I think there's two parts.
There's learning the craft and practicing the craft.
The second one is the most important.
So we're going to start with the second one, which is practicing the craft.
If you want to write, you got to write.
(06:35):
And we all are not very good at it in the beginning.
We don't know what we don't know and then we do know what we don't know and that's
even more than we thought.
So it's whether it's joining a writing group or taking a class at your community writer studio,
many cities have these.
Your library may have a writing club or you might be able to get together with a few friends
(06:59):
and say, hey, let's trade pieces and give each other feedback and encouragement.
Just keep writing.
And as you do, you'll see where you're comfortable, where you struggle, where somebody gives you
feedback, like, wow, you went from eye to weed to they, you know, first, but whatever it is.
(07:20):
That's craft that you can learn.
Once you know what you don't know, then you can explore.
I took it to the end degree.
I went back to school at 52 and got a master's in fine arts from Northwestern and creative
writing.
It's a workshop or something as formal as an MFA program.
(07:43):
Keep learning and engages your intellect.
It keeps you fresh, puts you in community with others and you're learning a craft and then
you practice, practice, practice, practice.
I love the fact that you did this at the age of 52.
And I mean, what was going through your mind?
I mean, I can think of all kinds of excuses at the age of 52, why you shouldn't be doing
(08:08):
this, listening to all of the naysayers out there that are saying, you shouldn't be doing
this and you should be retiring or at least thinking about retiring.
You should be building a nest egg.
You should be building your financial empire so you can retire.
And yet here you wander off at the age of 52 and you take it.
(08:28):
It was a program.
I worked all day and I went to school at night, but here's the thing.
All those things are important.
We all have to work.
We have to say we might be helping younger people in our lives, say for there, we may have
charities, we support or are volunteering that's also important in our own careers and our
(08:52):
businesses and whatever.
So the answer is yes, all of the above.
So what I found when I went decided to go into the MFA, what propelled me was to reach my
goal of becoming a novelist.
I had written short stories.
I'd been published.
I even won a couple of minor awards for my short stories.
(09:13):
I wanted to get to that long form fiction, that life long goal.
And I said, my life long goal is worth it.
And I'm going to make this investment in myself.
For me personally, any kind of education at any age is so important for our minds, for
our to see the world to become critical thinkers and creative expressors.
(09:38):
Education is fantastic.
So I knew I was going into this for personal development, not because I was going to go
off and make a scamillion dollars by selling my movie script.
No, I knew when I was after for craft practice and community.
(09:58):
It didn't take away from those other things like working and saving, but I had to prioritize
other things.
I had to say, what can I give up?
You know what I gave up?
I gave up a lot of time wasteers like I didn't talk on the telephone as much.
I didn't watch filler television, right?
(10:20):
Like listen, you want to watch a good streaming?
I can, that's your destination.
Go for it.
I streamlined my life, still worked full time, still did other things and was able to complete
this because I found I had both time and energy.
Yeah.
(10:40):
More than I realized and that in itself was quite, quite a lesson.
What would be the difference in a Patricia, Chrisophaly as a writer in your 20s as opposed
to 52?
What?
Or now older than 52, but we're not going to put a number on that.
(11:02):
Yeah, what?
Just say it's a few years.
But I think that, you know, here's my point.
My point is that, yeah, all of the experiences that happen in our younger
years are setting the table for something fantastic in our later years.
(11:23):
And so many of us in our later years dismiss everything that went on in the earlier years
and saying, well, I'm done.
I'm no longer useful to society.
And yet at the same time, I'm going, wait a minute.
This is the time when you should be bringing all of the nuggets of truth and wisdom to the
(11:46):
table to share with the rest of us to build up the younger generations.
And that's what you're doing.
Well, so a couple things.
The difference for me personally in 20s, to 50 and beyond was the fact of, I had gained
a confidence in myself.
You know, for so many of us when we're in our 20s, it's a time of discovery.
(12:10):
But it's also a time of feeling incredibly vulnerable and wondering, am I good enough,
am I worth enough, am I this enough, and that enough, and all that can really be an impediment
to expression.
In addition, there are some of my fondest pieces that I wrote in my 20s that express someone
(12:31):
seeing the world in a new way and a developing way who goes from, I saw myself as this.
And now I'm that.
I did an essay on the first time I ever went to the developing world.
I was in West Africa.
And it's an essay I love and I was 20 something when I wrote it.
And it was so vulnerable because I realized how scared I was by being outside a comfort zone.
(12:59):
Now I've had that experience many times more now, but capturing it then was helpful.
So conversely, we go to the other end of the timeline and we think of now I have so much
more to say, I can reflect on my own experiences back then through this wisdom of where I ended
(13:20):
up.
And as a fiction writer, I can also create a character in the case of my protagonist Gabriela,
she's 44 years younger than I am.
So I mean she and I might listen to different music, she and I might have different experiences
with what the technology she uses now or what I used in my 40s.
(13:42):
But I know what it was like to be a single mom then and she was.
She is then.
I know what it's like to be in a relationship later as she goes through and I went through
25 years ago.
All these things add my ability to create an empathetic character.
(14:02):
So whether it's fiction and we're looking back or it's memoir and we're making sense
of our lives or we're looking at now, what do I have to say?
It's about having a body of knowledge about the world, about our view of the world, about
our time stamp in the world, certain events we read or experienced or felt in our bodies
(14:28):
or our communities.
And it's all very valuable.
Each and our own way, we are witnesses to a collective history.
Maybe I grew up rural and it wasn't exactly, you know, the crossroads of dramatic change.
But even there as I look back on my early experiences, I can see the through line of
(14:51):
change and what it means to be a person of this world and a member of society.
So wherever you are, grab your story, look back with empathy and understanding and share
now, not with the fact that, oh, I earned this place, but we're learning from each other's
(15:14):
stories because we need to be in tune with those younger emerging stories as well.
Absolutely.
And one of the things that I find interesting in life is when I talk to people and I talk
to people about life is a story and not only is life a story, but your story is another
(15:34):
story inside of that bigger story of life.
How do you convey that to people?
How do you take, in other words, I know you do it through your books, but when you're talking
to people, how do you express that?
Well, it's interesting because one of the things I love to do is I love to teach and coach
(15:57):
other writers is something I kind of do on the side.
And there's an organization that's shout out to them out here in Eugene, Oregon called
Word Crafters.
And I have been one of their instructors, you know, for a weekend conference or something.
And here's what I like to say, whether it's something we've made up or it's something
that we're exploring like a memory or some combination.
(16:21):
Our stories, writ small, reflect a much bigger world.
So one of the things I say to people is if you've got a memory that just pushes on you
and it just picks your brain, remember me, remember me, it's got something to tell you.
Now it might be, I don't know, a memory of going to the county fair or it might be,
(16:46):
you know, something that happened at school.
It might be this little, perfect little crystal of an experience.
But if you poke at it a little bit and say, why is this so important?
Why was this so poignant or why did I have all this emotion around it?
(17:07):
It reflects the bigger world.
It might have been the first time that you were told you couldn't do something and you
said, oh yes, I can.
Or you might have stepped in as an advocate for someone or you might have seen generational
differences in your family that is a young kid, you don't pay attention to.
(17:30):
And then suddenly you realize, wow, the world I live in is different than the world, whatever
it is.
It could be any kind of theme, but individual, smaller stories, anecdotes.
This contains huge universal wisdom.
So rather than trying to write the history of the world, capture those emotionally charged,
(17:55):
positive or negative, emotionally charged, meaningful moments of story.
They have something to teach you about you and your world.
Yeah, absolutely.
That teaching and the knowledge that you're passing on through your writing is to enhance
and lift up other people's lives and building morale, building inspiration to maybe I can
(18:23):
capture some of the stories I think about my grandparents.
And I used to sit around the breakfast table as a kid and listen to the stories that my
grandfather would share if his experiences in the logging camps.
Oh, whole another world.
He used to say, Mark, today they talk about the good old days.
(18:47):
Let me tell you firsthand, there was nothing good about the good old days.
And from his perspective, he grew up at the age of 12 in a logging camp.
And he would go into these, because his dad died of a heart attack, he had to help his mom
make ends meet.
So he went to work in a logging camp, cutting wood to keep the stoves fired up so that when
(19:12):
the men came in from the woods, they would take off their clothes and then you got all these
wet clothes that are drying in these tents and then they would, they'd be sleeping in
these bunks and they didn't have mattresses so they would sleep on fur bows and then the
bed bugs would get in there.
(19:33):
Then they'd have to soak everything and caracene.
He goes, "Trust me, there was nothing good about the good old days."
Those are, that's not a romantic story.
But the story was amazing.
It was riveting.
It was taking and transporting me back into time of what it was really like to live in that
kind of an environment and how would I respond?
(19:57):
How would I adapt and you just do?
It's part of life.
And so another way of looking at that is to say, what I admire was this 12 year old who
just did what had to be done, a sense of loyalty, a sense of responsibility and a sense and
a resilience.
(20:18):
So part of that could be, well, gee, I'm very grateful so it inspires gratitude in us, right?
Number two, it's also a conviction that your grandfather and your parents probably had
of like, "I don't want my kids to have to go through this."
Right?
Thank you.
Our dream is parents as we want to make things easier and better for the next generation
(20:41):
to not have to struggle and face such hardships.
But at the same time to share the stories that explain what it's like to be resilient.
So whether we're facing a pandemic or the incursion of technology that feels very frightening
and unsettling, we know that is humans when we converse about our experiences, when we
(21:06):
share our feelings, when we reach into emotional reserves, we find strength and resilience and
an ability to stand up for ourselves and others in a way to advocate that we say, "Well, shoot,
that's what grandma and grandpa were doing during the Depression."
That's what mom and dad were talking about.
(21:28):
It's in our DNA.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm also thinking about how you've got all these stories that have been collected by all
these great individual lives.
And as you know, this is a podcast about the aging process.
(21:48):
As we age, if you're not too busy being born, you're too busy aging and you're too busy collecting
stories.
Then you get to that place in your life when they say, "Okay, it's time for you to retire."
My biggest thing about retirement is don't retire and just do nothing.
(22:11):
And find some outlet, find some way to continue to tell your story to the rest of the world.
And sometimes that can be done through writing.
Yes.
Tell us a little bit about what you're doing to encourage and inspire those of us that are
the boomers that are getting ready to retire to be able to capture your stories on paper.
(22:38):
And maybe there's a novel in there someplace.
Who knows?
That's exactly right.
So number first thing I say is, I hope my example is, you know, some people, you know, their
life's journey is different.
They get published very young.
They get the book deal and their 30s and off they go.
You know, my path went nonfiction first because I was a journalist.
(23:00):
I had my first book out at 39 and then books in my 40s, etc.
And fiction waited for me until I had a much different age.
You know, that was my path.
So number one, writing knows no age.
It's just right, your story.
To give yourself permission, I would have, would I have liked to have, I had my writing
(23:26):
journey be different sooner, faster?
Sometimes I say, well, yeah, but I go, well, wait a minute.
There are certain aspects to my writing now.
For example, in mysteries and creating small town characters that aren't just facing usual
mystery, but there are a lot of existential questions about being an other, about belonging,
(23:49):
about what community that takes some experience.
So first of all, own the fact that you've got something to say that you want to explore.
Don't worry about the output as much as the input when you begin.
I have memories, I have thoughts, I have experiences and I want to just start to write them down.
(24:12):
Number two, I also want to look at how I get motivated.
Maybe it's a, a, a, a class, a writing group, a presentation at your library, ask your librarians,
hey, I want to start doing this. You know of a group, chances are they know that.
(24:32):
And then begin to talk to other folks that you know who are doing the same thing.
Keep each other accountable.
Hey, I'm going to write five pages this week or two paid, whatever, what are you going
to do?
Create community because it doesn't matter where it goes.
(24:53):
In fact, I would say if you try to say, oh, well, this novel and this novel hit the best
seller list.
So I need to write this and it needs to be sci fi and you're like, no, maybe that's not
you.
Look at your input.
Worry about that first.
Find community, find a class or a group and just begin.
(25:15):
It is so rewarding.
Over time, you know, the output will find its way.
And it doesn't necessarily have to end in a novel.
It doesn't necessarily have to, it could be just writing down your memoirs for your family
to carry on.
(25:36):
And there's so many forms and ways to be able to capture that in paper on a book form
that they're going on in the world today.
And there's more.
Yeah.
So yes, you could self publish a memoir and give it to your three kids and your two nephews
or four nieces in the neighbors, okay?
Yeah.
Or, you know, you could catch the brass ring and then out it goes and you've got this thing.
(25:59):
But there's also blogs and websites that you might go to that are, for example, there's
one called 60 spelled out, sci x, dy, a, and d, me, 60 and me.
It's for women over the age of 60.
They're always looking for contributors and a lot of it is about advice or this or that.
(26:21):
There are a ton of websites blogs.
You might belong to a community organization that has a blog and you're like, well, is a volunteer
who does this and that.
I have a story to share.
So there are many little outlets where if you have a story or an experience or some advice
(26:42):
can find an avenue into the world that's between, you know, making, you know, the three
kids read your book and, um, and having, you know, an international book tour.
A lot of things in between, but it starts with input.
My, what do I have to put into my story machine?
(27:02):
Yeah.
Right.
Right.
And how can I stay motivated?
It is not selfish.
It is not a waste of time.
It is not a flight of fancy.
It is exploration.
It is just as important as any other kind of meditation or mindfulness or, uh, introspection
(27:23):
that you might engage in because stories allow us to explore the world and our place in
it.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
How do you see aging in the creative expression?
Okay.
So I was thinking about this getting ready for today's conversation and I have to say, I
(27:45):
did have this feeling of like, ooh, aging.
It's one of those words, because there can be a negative connotation, right?
You know, I put on all my creams at night to reverse the aging process.
My hair shouldn't be this brown, okay?
So we have this, but aging, think of the maturing of, um, of a crop of a stand of beautiful
(28:13):
trees.
Think of, you know, the rose bushes that somebody tends year over year until they more profusely
bloom.
Think of fine wine or good cheese or whatever else we consume.
We know that aging enhances flavor and experience and joy.
(28:35):
And aging is not becoming old and outdated and irrelevant and decrepit and what we
think of as right?
It is, it is maturing.
It is developing.
It is becoming fuller for creative expression.
(28:56):
It is so essential that we don't believe that a life is truncated at a certain age.
Well, you're 37.8 years old and nothing more to say.
No.
At every age, there is value in whatever story we share or want to explore.
(29:17):
So as in a community where we are aging today, we recognize the body of our knowledge and
our perspective, born of many decades that allows us to see the world now, a fresh and
new to be surprised, to be inspired and also to bring the perspective of, yes, I remember
(29:44):
what this looked like.
I remember what this was like.
I remember what my parents told me.
I remember our generational history.
We bring all of that to our stories.
And as they creatively is a good thing.
Absolutely.
And author, your unique approach to your creativity brings another perspective to the table.
(30:10):
Did you know that mysteries are one of the most popular genres of all books?
Patricia Crease of Foley believes one of the reasons for this popularity is that mysteries
engage our brains in critical thinking and creative problem solving.
This did you know segment was brought to you by this week's guest and sponsored by Royal
(30:31):
Hospice organ.
And so talk a little bit about your style, your uniqueness as a mystery novelist and what
sets you apart in that mystery genre from other authors.
Well, I love history.
(30:52):
So I am a mystery novelist.
My stories are all my Anita Harbor mystery series is all set in the present day.
But what makes me unique is there is always an artifact.
It's fictional, but it's true to life.
That is at the center of the story.
So there's the modern day mystery and being in the kind of the cozy genre, you know, there's
(31:16):
a dead body in the library lawn or floating in the river.
There's some murder and mayhem going on, but there's also an artifact.
It is an embodiment of history and my authenticator main character, Gabriela literally has to
figure out what is this and where did this come from, etc.
(31:37):
And the first novel, it was a medieval cross.
And the second novel, it's a nautical schematic from the early 19th century and the third
novel, which is coming out this fall called the Secrets of the Old Post Cemetery.
It is a revolutionary, revolutionary war, era map.
(31:57):
And the reason I bring these artifacts in is I want to literally bring history past into
the present for relevance.
So there is the, it's rare, it's cool.
It's worth a lot of money factor.
But beyond that.
Everything we have.
Did you know that the RMS Queen Mary designed to carry 2139 passengers in luxury accommodations
(32:25):
was used as a troop ship in World War II and carried 16,000 soldiers at a time.
This did you know moment was provided by today's guest and is brought to you by Royal
Hostess of Oregon evoking themes that are universal and timeless.
(32:47):
What inspired you though to bring in an artifact that's that's a really interesting approach.
And then how did you go about choosing because you've got three novels, three artifacts,
correct?
Yes, absolutely.
Okay.
So how did you go about choosing those artifacts?
Well, it started with the first novel, which is the Secrets of Onida Harbor.
(33:08):
And the artifact there is a little tiny medieval cross.
And I chose this one because I am obsessed with medieval art.
I've always loved it.
Don't ask me.
But it's, you know, from the four, 1800s and the 1500s and it's old and it tends to be
rare and have a lot of unusual materials in it.
(33:31):
And I did a ton of research.
In fact, it was the basis of my creative thesis at Northwestern.
So for me choosing the first artifact was pretty easy.
The second novel I wanted to choose something very different.
Okay.
Before you get into the second, I got to ask the question, how did that pop into your head?
(33:52):
Like, okay, might that the center of my mystery novels, I want an artifact.
I mean, did, were you just sitting around the breakfast table one morning and go, oh,
that's the, I mean, ding.
Is something went on?
Is that, yeah, I remember creating this artifact in a, in a previous work when I was, and I
was washing my hair.
Okay.
And I, maybe I was stimulating my brain.
(34:14):
So I'm washing my hair going, what am I going to call this thing?
I said, and I was, I was saying words out loud in the shower.
And I said the cross of Sienna.
And I just said it.
And I was like, wow, that's cool.
What the heck is it?
And so I invented a thing and a provenance back to Catherine of Sienna.
(34:37):
It was a woman before her time, born in like 1340 and, and, and whatever.
I, I, I, I'm either really creative or a little, cuckoo.
But that's how it started.
It just literally popped in my brain as I was washing my hair.
And then I was like, that's my thing.
(34:58):
I love history.
I love going to museums.
You know, again, I tapped into my real experience and then creating a character who was an
authenticator and a librarian was, was a natural progression.
So out of my own interest came this.
And then for each subsequent novel, the secrets of still waters, chasm, which is environmental.
(35:22):
I wanted to look at the deep water lakes in New York State and, and, and, and put a, a
storyline around that, therefore coming up with something nautical.
I don't want to, I don't want to be, give a spoiler was a natural outgrowth of some research.
In the third novel, which is coming out this October, the secrets of the old post cemetery,
(35:45):
I knew enough about the history of my hometown on the shores of Lake Ontario, my original
hometown, not where I live now, that I said, Oh, there's been three wars fought here.
The French and Indian War, the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, it is steeped into this
area.
I'm going to create an artifact that maps this shoreline that contains a story, not only
(36:12):
of its time, but of a bitter, bitter family rivalry, not ours, but I mean, in the fictional,
the fictional family.
Yeah, yeah.
And is the map, are these artifacts real?
No.
They're, they're, they're, they're, they're just hard to fit.
Yeah, they're true to life.
They're inspired by, but they're, they exist in my head.
(36:34):
There is no cross of Siena, except in my head.
And there is no schematic like there is in book two and this thing that I call the traitor's
map does not exist.
But there's enough truth and it historically that I can say you will feel like it's not
(36:58):
suddenly, you know, this, you know, this amazing glowing diamond came from outer space.
No, no, it came out of history.
Yeah.
Talk a little bit about that process of, you know, how you research all of the, you know,
facts to, to build the storyline because you got to make it credible.
(37:20):
Right.
So this is fun.
So I'm going to tell you a story because I, again, this is engaging all parts of our joy
and our interests and our, our sense of adventure, right?
So and if you're going to write a story, go do this.
Whether you're looking literally going back to the, the old family farm, which has been
(37:41):
sold and you're looking at the fence posts and where they came to, whatever, do it, go
into the field, do the research, look at the photo albums, talk to the, it's part of the
joy.
So for me, I'm creating a 14th century cross about this tall and about this wide tiny and
it has some structural flaws, all of which what did it look like?
(38:04):
Well, has to be gold with jewels.
No, that's a cliche.
Yeah.
And then I found out that they didn't start to facet jewels the way we think of in our
jewelry now until about the 1600s.
So there went that before a jewel was a cabochon cut flat with a rounded top.
(38:24):
How did I know that?
I call, I went to a museum.
I spoke to one of their gemologists so there you that you can have that job title apparently
in some places.
Explain that to me.
But I still wasn't convinced it should be precious metal with, because it feels like everything
else.
I went to a museum in New York City on a business trip to the Morgan Library and I went through
(38:50):
a wonderful display on Emily Dickinson, nothing to do with my novel and I was putting on my
coat on a very cold day and I dropped my gloves.
So I bent down, pick up my gloves and when I raised up, I came eye to eye with a display.
I had not seen of a chalice from 14th century Siena that was covered in enamel.
(39:20):
Something called bass tie enameling, which was perfected in Italy in around the 13th century.
And I was like, "Oh, now I know what this looks like.
It's this, it's got precious metal, it's got the low relief carving, it's got bass tie enameling.
(39:41):
It came to life for me through this research, which it happened because I dropped my gloves
in the lobby of the museum."
Yeah, yeah.
So that's what I mean by engaging in the adventure.
It's a great story for me.
And it also shows that we are living out the mysteries of our own lives.
(40:04):
I'm still trying to picture how they had attached jewelry to whether it was a cross or
whether it was any kind of a chalice, whatever.
So did they use a glue or?
No, okay.
So I'm a little confused with that.
Okay.
So, I mean, so we know what it looks like when we set a jewel into a ring, you know, there's
(40:30):
that little facet.
So, if you look at some medieval art that's got those cabochon jewels, you know, there's
a depression around it, the jewel set in, and then it's crimped in.
This is something that's enameled.
It looks like little tiles that are like little mini stained glass windows.
(40:52):
So what they would do is they would have their shape like a chalice or cross a pendant or
something.
They would be carving low relief.
So it would be 3D, right?
But it wouldn't, and in that, so you'd have like if you had somebody's face, their nose would
stick out, their eyes would be in, you know, they're hit.
It would be carved in and then they would apply layers of translucent colored enamel that
(41:20):
would make the garment blue and the hair brown and the wrap red.
And it looked like a little stained glass window.
So carving and then layers of enamel that built up this gorgeous image.
I will send you a link to the chalice of St. Michael's Abbey from the Morgan Library
(41:47):
that you can either put in the show notes or at least you yourself.
You'll be able to see this.
It will just blow your mind.
Do you have that on your website?
I don't, but they have it on their website and I can share that with you.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
All right.
Sounds good.
Well, I mean, these are the kind of the fascinating things behind this story behind the
story.
And this is what we're going to all engage in as we tell our stories.
(42:11):
Now you might say, well, it's fine for her, but my gosh, that exhausts me.
Maybe you want to write about memories of how your mom and your grandma made preserves
every fall.
And that's a childhood memory.
Well, you're going to have to figure out, wait a minute, did they use a canner?
Was it enamel?
You're going to look at pictures and engaging in those things.
(42:33):
When you pick them up or maybe you have that, you realize there's a story in this thing
that I didn't fully appreciate before because touching it, looking at it, I'm recalling
something I heard 40 years ago or longer that I'd forgotten about.
(42:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It does it by telling that or digging in and finding out what how this was all good.
Yeah.
And then it opens up a whole new genre inside your mind.
And it also brings forth the smells.
Yes, smell is very evocative.
Yeah, touches and all the things that go into that.
(43:20):
And that's a joy, that discovery.
I think it really increases our mental capacity to take things in because we're becoming mindful
in the moment about a time.
We're not just like, oh, squirrel, I call it squirrel brain.
Oh, I got to do this and I got to go here.
It's like, I am focused on this thing.
(43:41):
I'm listening to someone explain to me how this was used or where it was.
I'm looking at a map.
I'm looking at these photographs.
I'm sharing this and it's going deep, not broad.
Yeah.
I want to get back to your mystery novel that's coming out in October and I don't know how
much you can share without spilling too much.
(44:01):
Talk about it.
But, okay, let's get back to this map.
So this map was a map from what era?
Again, it was this.
So, I was, I have a memory, which might be a false memory of being told something when
I was like in fourth or fifth grade, maybe sixth grade, about somebody created a spine app
(44:24):
for the British of the shoreline that showed the swamps and some areas where the continental
army kept their boats and their supplies or whatever.
But, and the person who made the map made it purposefully inaccurate.
So, I had this memory.
Well, guess what?
(44:44):
All the research in the world never turned this up.
So, I was like, maybe I made it up, maybe I was, I don't know.
So, but I loved this idea of a map, of a place that is inaccurate for reasons we can't
quite understand, but like notoriously inaccurate.
Like if you looked at it, you'd be like, I can't use this, right?
(45:08):
So I went, I know my, you know, my shoreline, I have fictionalized the area, I give it different
names.
I put a few features on there and then I went to a cartographer.
I met out here in Oregon and I said, if I give you a sketch, could you make a map for
(45:30):
me?
And he said, I would love to.
So, shout out to Dave I'mus, I am U.S. and his I'mus Geo, Geo Graphics is his website and
he made a map for me that I can then put in the book.
So you can see, it's very simple.
It's not exactly, it isn't this gorgeous, beautiful map.
(45:51):
It's a quickly hand sketch map, the way it would have been done back then.
It captures a place, but the inaccuracies tell the story of why someone would change the way
a place looks.
And I don't want to say too much about that, but as Gabriela herself is an authenticator and
(46:14):
is a librarian and as an adjunct in the history department at the local college tells her students,
each of these things has a story waiting to be told.
It is as if the object itself wants to tell you what it means.
(46:34):
And I like that is a story element and I also like it as metaphor for ourselves.
There is more to us than meets the eye.
We have an abundance of experiences and perspectives and rises and falls and all that and in all
of that, what we present to the world is a topography of our lives, but maybe some of the
(47:01):
faults and the flaws and the inaccuracies are really what make us interesting.
Excellent.
Well said.
So when someone reads your mystery novels, what do you hope that they will walk away with?
Well, I mean, the obvious is that I hope that they are entertained and I really hope that
(47:23):
they see that there is a lot going on in this third one, the secrets of the old post-Semitary.
We got a modern day murder mystery.
I mean, we got murderers and we got crime and we got all kinds of stuff going on.
And then there is this historic context of something that happened during the revolution
and we have this going on.
(47:45):
So we got a couple of tears.
You got to pay attention.
So I hope that that is going on, but there is something about mysteries in general that
I think are very important.
I mean, they are a very popular genre.
We all like to be smarter than the, than, or inspector Gammasha and Louise Penny's wonderful
novels.
(48:05):
We want to solve the crime along with that person, that expert.
It engages our minds, our critical thinking.
Like we got to connect the dots.
And we know the author is going to send us over here and it is going to be a red herring
and we are going to be off on a tangent and whatever.
But we connect the dots and I think this is a wonderful skill in our own lives because
(48:31):
there are going to be situations in daily life where we have a problem to solve or we
have a mystery to figure out or it may be something grand and exciting or it could be something
as I couldn't figure out why the event in my bathroom kept dripping water on my head
every time I call my hair.
(48:52):
Where was the condensation coming from?
Not very exciting, right?
But we have little, we connect dots and the more we can do that in a story and be entertained,
our brain starts to see patterns that tells us even the most difficult problems can be
addressed.
(49:13):
Even the most intractable and tractable mysteries can be solved.
There is a solution.
We just have to stick with it and wait for the next clue and the next one and the next
one.
And in the aging process as our brains become less active, you know, because of what we choose
(49:38):
to do with our lives.
Being can play such a huge role in exactly stimulating the mind in keeping the paths
clear and I love the way you described how we connect the dots and that's exactly what
our brains need to continue to do in our latter years.
Right.
And there might be ways of taking that skill if you're someone who is very good at this problem
(50:03):
solving.
Maybe you get up on a volunteer, a group at a, you know, the local community center or
a park or something that says that we know we have a project here.
We're trying to solve and you can bring your critical thinking and your creativity there
and say, I have life experience.
I have these things and I got to bring the loves puzzles and that can figure things out.
(50:28):
And I want to be part of this team.
And suddenly we find that there's an outlet for all that we have to give.
And you call this the second act.
Third act in my case, hey, I don't know.
I may have an eight act play going on here, but we're not done.
You know, yeah, yeah, and the occasion of my 35th birthday a while ago, I called it my dad
(50:53):
who then was, uh, sort of been 76 and I said, Oh, damn, I turned 35 and he said, well, consider
the alternative to not turning 35.
And that's so weird me up.
And so I said to him, you know, he was 41 years older than me.
Like dad, what's the secret?
And my, with my father, it was always the wisdom of what he didn't say as well as what he
(51:14):
did say.
He said, well, if you're alive, you better be living.
And he didn't say anything about this and that, but this very simple thing.
If you are alive, you better be living.
And I think that's great advice for every age.
If you have the gift of life, if you are up and your eyes are open and you're looking at
(51:35):
this world and you are, have a pulse and a way to breathe in and out and you can be present
in your life, then be living for whatever that appears to be for you.
It's a blessing and to go.
Well said.
(51:55):
And I was going to ask the question, you know, what would advice would you give to people
that are looking at that second act?
And I think you answered it right there.
I would quote my dear old dad, if you're alive, you better be living.
What a great place to end our conversation.
And if others that are listening want to learn more about your craft, the way you write
(52:20):
and the novels that you put together, what's your website?
Okay.
Best way to find me and my novels and things.
I mean, first of all, I'm on the usual places wherever they sell books.
Yeah, Barnes and Old dot com and all that good stuff.
Put in my name, they'll pop up.
My website is called faith, F-A-I-T-H, Hope, H-O-P-E and A-N-D, Fiction, F-I-C-T-I-O-N dot com.
(52:48):
The faith part is is not, you know, you know, tenants of the whatever.
It is faith in ourselves, the leap of faith, inspiration, most broadly defined hope.
I hope because without hope, we can't get ourselves out of bed, let alone create anything.
(53:08):
Fiction, why fiction?
Because I believe that even in made up stories, there is deep truth.
So faith, hope, and fiction dot com is where you'll find me, my creative path, more about
my books and more about writers who I engage with and also publish on my website.
And on your website, the one thing I appreciate is that you have a lot of short stories or
(53:31):
a lot of books and stories.
Yeah, stories essays and poems, right?
Exactly.
And there's no, by the way, it's my labor of love.
So even though I publish other people, there's no ads, there's no registration.
You can sign up for my newsletter if you want.
And if you don't, you can just come back.
There's no impediment between the story and you because that's one of my values.
(53:53):
I'm blessed to be able to do this and fund it through my other work because I wanted
fake hope and fiction dot com to be an oasis on the web like your wonderful podcast were
information and inspiration is available just for asking.
Okay.
So if somebody is listening right now and they are inspired by your life, your life's
(54:18):
work and the way you write and they want to explore that is there's, is there something
on your website that they can get in contact with you to kind of get some guidance?
Sure.
You know, there's a contact, Trisha page.
Somebody could send me an email through there.
Because you mentioned us something about a 60's.
(54:40):
Whoa, that's 60 in me.
That's just happened to be a place where I've blogged the most.
So number one, if somebody wants to know send me an email through my website, I will reply.
Number two.
It's your local I wherever you live, your local librarian for help finding a writer's group,
(55:00):
a book discussion group, a group where you can physically meet with other people.
I mean, zoom is lovely.
We do this.
We love this.
We can be anywhere.
But there's something that's special like I teach it word crafters here in Eugene, Oregon.
There is a group.
There's a place where you can go to learn more being community.
(55:21):
Start with your local library.
Do you know of a writer's group?
Do you know of a reader's group?
I want to explore more and it'll be the best gift you ever gave yourself.
Amen to that.
And Chris, Patricia, Christopher Lee, thank you so much for being on aging today.
And I can't wait for your new book to come out in October.
(55:43):
Well, I might have to come back then to talk about it.
Yeah.
And we've got to learn all about this map.
Yeah.
You know, it's a big, you know, it's, you're trying to fool the enemy.
So it's a fictionalized map of a map that was a hoax that was a Bruce that was a, yeah, but all
(56:04):
based on some kind of historical context, or probability.
I love that.
Love that.
It's very exciting.
All right.
Well, thanks again once again for being on aging today.
Thank you.
All right.
This is Mark Terrible.
Listen, I want to thank all of you for tuning into aging today.
We are the podcast where together we're exploring the many options to aging on your terms.
(56:28):
You can join us every Monday when we release a new conversation and on the aging process
and to your favorite podcast channel.
And remember this, we're all in the process of aging.
And as we age, we really are better together.
So stay young at heart.
You make me feel so young.
(56:52):
You make me feel like spring is from and every time I see your face, I'm such a happy
individual, the moment that you speak.
I want to go play hide and see.
I want to go and bounce the moon just like a toy balloon, well, you and I.
(57:16):
I'll just like a bullet, running across the metal.
They can have lots of, forget me night so you made me feel so young.
You made me feel there are songs to be sung, there will still be wrong and wonderful thing
to be fun.
(57:36):
And remember, I'm old and grey.
You've been listening to aging today, where together we explore the options to aging on
your terms.
Join Mark and his guest next week for another lively discussion on proactively aging on your
terms, connecting you to the professional advice of his special guests with the goal of
(57:57):
creating better days throughout the aging process.
Your host has been Mark Turnbull.
Join Mark and his guest every week on aging today, your podcast to exploring your options
for aging on your terms.
I want to go play hide and see what you want to see.
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