March 26, 2025 • 25 mins
Mary Beth O’Connor’s life is a gripping redemption story of addiction recovery and resilience. From surviving childhood abuse, sexual assault, and decades of methamphetamine addiction to achieving 30 years of sobriety as a federal court judge, her journey inspires women over 50 to find purpose and passion.
In this Aging with Purpose and Passion podcast episode, O’Connor shares with Beverley Glazer the raw mechanics of transformation—how trauma fueled her dependency, starting with alcohol at 12 and escalating to injecting meth by 17. Despite addiction, she attended Berkeley, only to watch her potential fade. Recovery wasn’t a single rock-bottom moment but a gradual awakening at 32. She entered rehab doubting sobriety was possible, offering hope to anyone hesitant to start. O’Connor’s key insight? Address addiction andtrauma together—her PTSD proved tougher than quitting drugs.
From law school at 39 to judge at 53, her story, detailed in Junkie to Judge, proves it’s never too late to rebuild. Ready to ignite your next chapter? Tune in to discover how small steps can unlock your unstoppable potential with Aging with Purpose and Passion—the weekly podcast inspiring women over 50 to embrace bold shifts, redefine themselves, and craft a vibrant, fulfilling life.
Have you enjoyed this episode? Please drop a review and share this episode with a friend.
And you might also enjoy Fit Stong Women Over 50, a podcast for the here: Becoming Elli Community. Where fit strong women motivate eachother to stay on their goals.
Resources:
Mary Beth O'Connor
Website: junkietojudge.com
Linked In: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mary-beth-o-connor-8aaa4b121/
X/Twitter: @MaryBethO_
Beverley Glazer
https://reinventimpossible.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/beverleyglazer/
https://www.facebook.com/beverley.glazer
https://www.facebook.com/groups/womenover50rock
https://www.instagram.com/beverleyglazer_reinvention/
https://calendly.com/reinventimpossible/15min
🎁 BONUS: Take your first step to clarity, courage and momentum. Your free checklist: → From Stuck to Unstoppable – is here.
https://reinvent-impossible.aweb.page/from-stuck-to-unstoppable
Have feedback or a powerful story that's worth telling? Contact us at info@Reinventimpossible.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to Aging with Purpose and Passion, the
podcast designed to inspire yourgreatness and thrive through
life.
Get ready to conquer your fears.
Here's your hostpsychotherapist, coach and
empowerment expert, BeverleyGlazer therapist, coach and
(00:29):
empowerment expert, BeverleyGlazer.
Beverley Glazer (00:35):
How can you rise from the trauma of sexual
assault and many years ofaddiction to becoming a federal
court judge?
Well, welcome to Aging withPurpose and Passion.
I'm Beverley Glazer and I'm acoach and a therapist, and I
help women achieve the successthey know they deserve in their
lives and in their careers, andyou can find me on
reinventimpossiblecom or you cansend me a text in the show
(00:58):
notes below.
I want you to meet Mary BethO'Connor.
Mary Beth is an author, she's aspeaker, she's a recovery
advocate with 30 years ofsobriety, who worked her way up
to the position of a federalcourt judge, from surviving a
violent and abusive childhood toan advocate for recovery and
(01:22):
healing.
This story isn't just inspiring, it's a masterclass in
transformation.
If you've ever faced challengesthat seemed insurmountable,
this conversation willdemonstrate the power of hope
and the belief that it's nevertoo late to turn your life
(01:42):
around.
So welcome, Mary Beth O'Connor,or should I say Judge O'Connor.
Mary Beth O'Connor (01:50):
Well, I'm retired, so I think we can go
with Mary Beth.
Beverley Glazer (01:56):
Okay, so please share what it was like growing
up in that childhood home ofyours back in the day.
Mary Beth O'Connor (02:04):
Yeah, I mean , part of the reason I focused
on that and I'm glad you do isbecause it's such a common
pathway to substance usedisorder, which is what we call
drug addiction today.
And so I had a mother who wasn'treally connected to me or
focused on me and that sort ofcreated a lot of anxiety and
feeling like I was on my own.
I mean, even as a little girl Ihad like counting behaviors and
(02:26):
soothing behaviors.
But when I was nine she marriedmy stepfather and things got a
lot worse.
He was very violent with her,physically, sexually violent
with me.
It was just a very high stressenvironment and also an
environment where what I did andwhat happened to me were not
really connected.
On top of that, because I knewI didn't have like my mother as
(02:50):
a supportive parent, I reallyfelt alone and like I had to
handle this person on my own.
So it was a lot of stress andstrain and that sort of made the
drugs, when I first experiencedthem, seem in the beginning
like they were helping me,because they helped relieve the
tension, relieve the anxiety,put the pain at bay, and that's
sort of how that you oftentransition from that neglect and
(03:13):
or trauma into an excessivedrug use at a young age.
Beverley Glazer (03:18):
Yeah, and that happens a lot to children that
get into drugs and alcohol.
I mean they can test it out,but not everybody has a
substance dependency.
But I'm glad that you said it.
That soothing is what broughtyou to alcohol.
Was alcohol your first drug ofabuse?
Mary Beth O'Connor (03:36):
Alcohol was my first drug.
It was when I was 12, and itwas Boone's Farm Strawberry Hill
Wine, which a lot of peopleknow, a very sweet introductory
drug in my area.
Beverley Glazer (03:47):
Yeah, yeah.
And what escape did thatprovide for you?
Mary Beth O'Connor (03:51):
I mean, what I really noticed the first time
was that I sort of felt like mymuscles relaxed, like I could
take a deeper breath.
I was giggling with mygirlfriend in sort of like a
more openly joyful way and thatjust really captured my
attention, that this is a reallypositive experience and I
(04:12):
pursued it right away because Iwanted more.
I felt like I needed more, andso it was something that from
the beginning I was targetedtoward, my mind was focused on,
and then it just moved on.
I mean, I added in weed andpills, I did a lot of acid for a
while, and then at 16, I foundmethamphetamine, which became my
drug of choice, and I wasshooting meth at 17.
(04:33):
I mean, so it was a pretty fastand severe escalation.
Beverley Glazer (04:39):
But all the while you were going to college
as well, when you were 16, 17.
So how were you able to handleall that?
Because that's tricky.
What did you do?
Mary Beth O'Connor (04:53):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, for me school had always
been my one special place, likeit's, where I was special,
where I was seen.
I had always done wellacademically and the drug use
didn't really hit meacademically until I started
shooting math.
And so by the last few monthsof my senior year of high school
I was missing a lot of school,but I had always been a good
(05:16):
student and they let me make upthe work.
Plus, by the end of your senioryear I had already been
accepted to college.
You know, I was alreadyaccepted and ready to go and so
I went to.
I grew up in New Jersey and Icame to California for college.
I graduated from Berkeley and Idid do better for the first
couple of years of college, butmuch worse than everybody else.
But for me it was something ofan improvement.
But I had another reallylife-threatening sexual saw.
(05:38):
I had a violent boyfriend andthen I sort of like lost the
little bit of grip that I hadand in January of my senior year
I started using meth againregularly and I didn't get sober
till 32.
So that's sort of how the wholething played out.
Beverley Glazer (05:51):
Yeah.
So what was going on at thetime?
I mean here, what you weredoing was living the life of a
drug addict, trying to cope andgetting into like one experience
after another, because, I mean,I've dealt for many years
working with drug addicts andthey don't usually become
(06:12):
federal court judges.
So, before we even go back tothat, how did you go through
that insanity of methamphetamine, drugs and the lifestyle, mary
Beth?
Because it's a lifestyle on itsown.
You know that, yeah.
Mary Beth O'Connor (06:32):
Yeah, and I mean, and it's a pretty
miserable existence, right,because you know it's like
sometimes it was clear to methat, like you know, I was
poisoning myself with drugs andit was like a core problem.
And other times I didn't reallyunderstand how my life had
gotten so out of control.
I mean, I couldn't hold a job.
(06:53):
Every job was like less moneyand less responsibility, because
I couldn't get there and Icouldn't concentrate.
I was just getting more andmore trapped, more and more
hopeless, more and moredespairing.
And then my long-term partner,he was really done with me by 32
.
He was ready to throw me out.
And so your world just getssmaller and smaller and smaller
(07:16):
and smaller and you lose thingsthat you value.
I mean, you know, you losethings that are important to you
.
You're not making the progressthat others are making in their
life and it's very, very painful.
You're right, it's a verydebilitating and painful
experience.
Beverley Glazer (07:31):
Yeah, and you get used.
You get used.
You're using yourself, yourself-esteem is down and you get
used by people as well.
So how did you support yourself?
Like you said, you had menialjobs.
What did you do to supportyourself?
Mary Beth O'Connor (07:48):
I mean I was living with a partner who had a
regular job, so that was anadvantage you know that I had
and I would work and maybe I'dwork.
I hold a job for you know, ninemonths or a year and then I go
on employment for a while andthen I get another job and hold
it for nine months or a year,and so it was sort of like that
and my expenses were fairlyreasonable and methamphetamine
(08:10):
is not the most expensive of thedrugs you know.
Plus, I had a community of drugusers.
So a lot of drugs, you knowpeople give them to you Right.
If you're, if you're in withthe right crowd, a lot of drugs
are given to you, especiallywhen I was younger.
So it's sort of it was likethat.
But I was barely hanging on.
I mean, I had a Berkeley degreeand good grades and my last job
(08:31):
for rehab was word processing.
Beverley Glazer (08:45):
And I could only hold it for nine months,
Like that's sort of where I hadworked my way down to.
So did you go and work rightthrough and get that degree at
Berkeley, or did somehow thedrugs kicked in and you had to
stop and have to go back Likehow were you able to do all that
pressure?
I mean, a law degree is a lotof pressure.
How did you do that?
How did you manage that?
Mary Beth O'Connor (09:01):
Yeah.
And so for undergrad I did gostraight through and I worked
half time, but for the firstthree and a half years of
college my joke was better.
I mean, you know, not good, butit was a little better, but I
had actually.
I actually got accepted toBerkeley Law for right after,
you know, right after college.
But remember, in January of mysenior year of college I started
(09:23):
using meth again regularly.
So by the time I got to lawschool in the fall I was in no
shape to do it and like Icouldn't get the class, I would
literally miss weeks, you know,of class.
And so I had to withdraw.
I gave back a top 10 law schoolbecause I knew I would never be
able to finish, I'd never beable to pass the bar, and it was
a.
It was an agonizing loss.
(09:44):
It was an agonizing loss butthere was.
There was no way around it if Iwas going to keep using drugs,
and at the time I didn't see apath out of the drug use.
Beverley Glazer (09:54):
So what was that aha moment that you said
I'm going to have to stop this?
Mary Beth O'Connor (10:00):
Yeah, and so I mean, I know, in the movies
or television it's always thisepiphany right, right, that can
happen, like a DUI or you losecustody of your kids that can
happen.
But I think most people aremore like me, where it's the
cumulative impact of the lossesand the misery and the year
after year after year, and so by32, I'm having physical
(10:23):
problems.
As I said, I'm feeling veryhopeless, very trapped, very
debilitated.
My partner was ready to throwme out, and so it was all of
those things together that mademe finally say you know, maybe I
ought to go to rehab.
And when I went to rehab Ididn't think I could stop, like
I really didn't believe it waspossible.
I thought maybe I can figureout how to do better, like maybe
(10:45):
I can figure out how to do less.
It's not that I wanted to keepusing, it's that my imagination
didn't go all the way to stopright.
And I say that in part becauseI don't want people to feel like
there's this barrier tostarting the recovery process,
as in you have to be 100 percentsure that you're going to be
able to be sober before youstart.
(11:06):
Now many of us aren't sure,many of us are ambivalent or not
confident, and yet you canstill eventually get to success.
Just start where you are.
Start where you are eventuallyget to success.
Beverley Glazer (11:19):
Just start where you are.
Start where you are.
Yes, I would say just from theexperiences that I've had, and I
will go very general.
Really nobody that comes intorehab says I'm really going to
let this go.
I mean, it's really a slowprocess to even allow yourself
to believe that there's anotherlife possible for you, because
(11:40):
before you reach rehab you'vetried to succeed so many times
and fail.
So it's like and why?
Now you know?
And why now?
And so did you just have oneshot of rehab or did you go
through a few rehabs?
Because happens a lot, so whathappened?
Mary Beth O'Connor (11:59):
yeah, yeah, and I'll say that too.
Part of it is my biggest fearabout rehab was how will I
handle my pain?
Because I knew that my violencehistory, my, my you know my
trauma history was underneath mydrug use and so part of it was
that I couldn't imagine handlingmy pain without the drugs and
that was sort of like a barrierto seeking help.
But but I did do one rehab butI did a long-term program.
(12:22):
I went into a program that was90 days minimum and I stayed for
five months.
But I also didn't have perfectabstinence from day one, which
most of us don't have perfectabstinence from day one.
So I used three times in myfirst five months.
So not perfect, but that was avast improvement over where I
walked in right.
And so and the other thing ispart of the benefit of peer
(12:45):
support meetings like you know12 Steps or Life Ring or you
know she Recovers or whatever isthat you do start to see
examples of success and that canincrease your belief that it's
possible for you.
Like I think in early recoveryyou need to find hope that you,
that you can succeed, becauseearly recovery is hard work.
(13:06):
It's hard to do the hard workif you don't think success is
even on the table Right, and sothat is one of the advantages of
peer support is hearing peopletell their stories, getting to
know them and seeing people whoare like they were, as bad off
as I was, you know, in as longterm of an addiction as I was,
and now it's a year or two orthree years later and look at
(13:26):
where they are, and that canreally help a lot.
Beverley Glazer (13:29):
Yeah.
So peer support would beextremely important and if you
don't have peer support, youstill need support.
You cannot do this alone.
It is good to either have atherapist and have family that's
behind you, people that know,but it must have been very hard
(13:49):
to open up, because trauma Idon't have to tell you it's
trauma it's hard to open up tothat trauma.
So what allowed you to slowly,slowly share?
Was it peer support or 12 stepor therapy, or what allowed you
to do that?
Mary Beth O'Connor (14:06):
Yeah.
So I mean I did 12 steps.
But that was never a good fitfor me and so I used other peer
support programs like Women forSobriety, what today is Smart
Recovery, what today is LifeRing Secular Recovery.
But I also did do therapy.
So I went into rehab in 93, andthey actually didn't believe
that you should tackle both yourmental health and trauma at the
(14:29):
same time as your substance usedisorder.
But today we know you should,that you need to do both.
Dual diagnosis co-occurringdisorders we call today.
But I knew that the trauma wasunderneath my drug use and that
if I didn't get a handle on thatI wasn't going to ever be happy
or productive.
So when I got home from rehab Isearched for a therapist with
(14:50):
trauma expertise and I found one.
And that's when I started thatwork and I will say that my well
, she to my surprise butcorrectly diagnosed me with PTSD
, which for me today we wouldcall it complex PTSD, and it
showed up as very severe anxietywhich I struggled with.
It was harder, took more yearsand more effort to get my PTSD
(15:14):
and anxiety under good controlthan my substance use, because
it was more complicated and itcame first.
But I did need to tackle bothif I was ever going to.
You know, have a happy andproductive life.
Beverley Glazer (15:28):
How did you know your personal life affect
your work life, yourprofessional life?
How did that affect you, or didit?
Mary Beth O'Connor (15:37):
When I got sober.
Beverley Glazer (15:39):
Yes.
Mary Beth O'Connor (15:41):
Yeah, so I mean.
So I had some advantages inrecovery and one of them was
that I had a partner who wasready, willing to let me come
home and who was a safe partner,like I mean he was at, he was
really done with my drug use andwhen I was in rehab you know
they have those family sessionsand he would come up and he
would say I think it's too late,she's burned, you know, too
many bridges.
(16:01):
And but he, he did allow me tocome home and he sort of watched
and waited to see what wasgoing to happen and he was a
safe partner.
I mean, for example, alcoholwasn't my favorite drink but I
felt like I didn't want it inthe house because I didn't want
an impulse relapse and he drankwithout problems but he cleared
(16:23):
the alcohol out because I askedhim, he was supportive of my
recovery and that really didhelp.
And then once I was doing well,I mean my husband's always now
the, you know, the biggestcheerleader, like when I apply
for something, he's sure I'mgoing to get it, like he has all
the confidence in the world.
I'm the one who second guessesand isn't sure, and we know that
.
You know, having friends andfamily support can really make
(16:44):
the odds of recovery success alot higher, and so it is an
important factor.
Peer support is a way todevelop community, but it's also
helpful if you have otherfriends and family sort of on
your side and supporting you aswell 100%.
Beverley Glazer (16:59):
How did writing your memoir and that's quite a
name, from Junkie to Judge howdid that help you?
Yeah, yeah.
Mary Beth O'Connor (17:08):
So I mean when I was appointed a federal
judge and, by the way, I went toBerkeley Law like for real,
yeah, for real, for real.
When I had six and a half yearssober, at 39, I became a lawyer
at 42.
And so, because I didn't getsober till 32, right.
So six and a half years sober,I went to law school.
I became a federal judge at 20years sober.
(17:28):
So you know, it was aprogression from where I started
, when I got sober, with ahorrible, embarrassing resume,
although you know, a degree fromBerkeley and good grades to
work my way up to judge was a 20year process, a step by step,
you know, incremental, goingforward process.
And then when I was appointed ajudge, it was sort of a natural
(17:49):
reflection time, like yourquestion how the heck did I go
from shooting meth at 17 until32 to federal judge?
And so that's when I startedthinking about could my story be
of use?
You know, would my story be ofvalue?
And I, I actually hadn't read alot of recovery memoirs and so I
started reading them and andwhen I, when I, I didn't see the
(18:13):
book I wanted to write.
So I, a lot of recovery membersdon't show the why they don't
show what led up to theaddiction, and I wanted to do
that.
And so that's about the firstthird of my book.
And then I had the usual, youknow, drug chaos, misery, um, uh
, showing of that, um.
And then the last third is myfirst three years of recovery,
because a lot of members at theend it's like I went to a couple
(18:34):
of meetings and everything wasgreat and it's like, well,
that's not how recovery works.
And so the last third is thefirst three years of recovery,
both the substance and traumarecovery, but also about
building a more individualizedrecovery plan, not just doing a
12-step recovery.
I mean the way my techniquesand strategies can work for
(18:55):
12-step people.
But I didn't see a memoir thatwasn't explicitly 100% 12 steps
and I wanted to have anotherexample out there.
So that's sort of what I wasthinking about when I wrote the
book.
Beverley Glazer (19:06):
Okay, what's the key that you would say to
women who really want to nowreclaim their life?
What's the key thing they haveto do?
Mary Beth O'Connor (19:15):
I mean, I think it's important to do sort
of an honest assessment of whereyou are Right.
And I always say, you know, forme the analytical process is
sort of like who am I, where amI and where am I trying to get
to?
And like like when I got home Igot sober, I I would at 32, I
wanted to make up for lost time.
Like I would have loved to leapinto a professional job but
(19:36):
nobody would hire me for thatand I wasn't ready, you know.
So it's important, I think, tothink about sort of who am I as
an individual, what are my goalsand where am I?
What's my first step?
Because you know you reallyneed to focus on that
incremental Most things areincremental improvement, and so
if your dream job is four stepsaway, that's okay.
(20:00):
What's the next step?
How do you prepare yourself forthe next step?
Get the skills you need for thenext step, if you want to work
less or become an author orspend more time with your family
or, you know, join the, do amarathon or whatever it is.
I think it's sort of all thesame process about thinking
(20:21):
about what's the long-term goalbut then really focusing on
what's my first step to reachthat goal, because that's all
you can do today.
Is that first step, you know?
Beverley Glazer (20:30):
Yeah, no, that's right.
Just really think about it andlook at where you are and what
is that first step you know?
Yeah, no, that's right.
Just really think about it andlook at where you are and what's
the first thing you could doand then take action towards it.
Yes, yes, without the action,it's not going to happen.
Mary Beth O'Connor (20:43):
That's right .
That's right.
Sorry, I apologize.
Beverley Glazer (20:47):
Not at all.
I would just want to thank youso much for all this information
, because it's so important.
When people start thinking it'stoo late, for me to hear that
it's never too late.
Mary Beth O'Connor (21:06):
I got sober at 32.
I went to law school at 39.
I became a lawyer at 42, ajudge at 53, a published author
at 59.
You know, my book came out whenI was 61.
I mean, you know, there's a lotof different phases in our life
that we can keep on doingthings that are challenging and
interesting to us.
(21:27):
And so, yes, I like your aging,you know, with purpose, idea,
right.
And so it's really like when Iretired, it was about well, how
do I want to spend my time nowthat I don't have to, you know,
work full time and do a job?
I don't want to watch TV, Iwant to still be productive and,
you know, be of use and be ofservice in a new way.
And so it's sort of every phaseof life has its opportunity for
(21:51):
you to reevaluate and revisithow you want to spend your time,
what you're going to findrewarding, what you're going to
enjoy.
Beverley Glazer (21:58):
Yes, Thank you.
Thank you, Mary Beth O'Connor.
Mary Beth O'Connor is an author, a speaker and a recovery
advocate.
She has 30 years of sobrietyand has worked her way up to the
position of federal court judge.
Her book Junkie to Judge isavailable everywhere and, of
course, you can find that onAmazon as well.
(22:21):
Here are a few takeaways fromthis episode.
Find a safe place, Whether it'sschool, whether it's a trusted
friend or a supportive community.
This is your foundation.
Take bold steps like entering arecovery program or getting
professional help this can belife changing for you and always
(22:42):
believe that you can make yourlife different.
Mary Beth's journey fromaddiction to becoming a judge is
proof that transformation ispossible for anyone, as long as
you're willing to do the work.
If you've been relating to thisstory, take a moment and
reflect on how you can changeyour life for the better.
(23:03):
Perhaps it's by letting go someresentments or getting support,
or simply shifting your beliefthat you deserve better.
For similar inspiring storieson recovery and addiction, check
out episodes 98 and 101.
And where can people find you,Mary Beth?
(23:24):
What are your links?
Mary Beth O'Connor (23:26):
So my website is junketandjudgecom and
, like my opinion pieces arethere and so a lot of other
information.
My book, as you say, is onAmazon and all the usual sites,
and then I'm on LinkedIn.
You can reach me there.
I'm on X, you know, twitter, atMary Beth O underscore, and I
don't really argue with peoplethere, I just try to provide
(23:48):
information and ideas.
Right, and I just joined BlueSky and that's Mary Beth
O'Connor.
Beverley Glazer (23:54):
Terrific.
And if you didn't catch thoselinks, they're also going to be
in the show notes and they're onmy site too, that's
reinventimpossiblecom.
And now, my friends, what'snext for you?
Are you going through themotions or are you really
passionate about your life?
Get weekly self-coaching tipsto empower you through your
(24:15):
journey, and that link will alsobe in the show notes.
Yep, right below, right belowthis episode.
Okay, you can connect with me,Beverly Glazer, on all social
media platforms and in mypositive group of women on
Facebook.
That's Women Over 50 Rock.
And if you're looking forguidance in your own
transformation, I invite you toexplore reinventimpossiblecom.
(24:39):
Thank you for listening.
Have you enjoyed thisconversation?
Well, please subscribe so youdon't miss out on the next one,
and send this episode to afriend.
And always remember you onlyhave one life, so live it with
purpose and passion.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Thank you for joining us.
You can connect with Bev on herwebsite, reinventimpossiblecom
and, while you're there, joinour newsletter Subscribe so you
don't miss an episode.
Until next time, keep agingwith purpose and passion and
celebrate life.
Welcome to Aging with Purpose and Passion, the
podcast designed to inspire yourgreatness and thrive through
life.
Get ready to conquer your fears.
Here's your hostpsychotherapist, coach and
empowerment expert, BeverleyGlazer therapist, coach and
(00:29):
empowerment expert, BeverleyGlazer.
Beverley Glazer (00:35):
How can you rise from the trauma of sexual
assault and many years ofaddiction to becoming a federal
court judge?
Well, welcome to Aging withPurpose and Passion.
I'm Beverley Glazer and I'm acoach and a therapist, and I
help women achieve the successthey know they deserve in their
lives and in their careers, andyou can find me on
reinventimpossiblecom or you cansend me a text in the show
(00:58):
notes below.
I want you to meet Mary BethO'Connor.
Mary Beth is an author, she's aspeaker, she's a recovery
advocate with 30 years ofsobriety, who worked her way up
to the position of a federalcourt judge, from surviving a
violent and abusive childhood toan advocate for recovery and
(01:22):
healing.
This story isn't just inspiring, it's a masterclass in
transformation.
If you've ever faced challengesthat seemed insurmountable,
this conversation willdemonstrate the power of hope
and the belief that it's nevertoo late to turn your life
(01:42):
around.
So welcome, Mary Beth O'Connor,or should I say Judge O'Connor.
Mary Beth O'Connor (01:50):
Well, I'm retired, so I think we can go
with Mary Beth.
Beverley Glazer (01:56):
Okay, so please share what it was like growing
up in that childhood home ofyours back in the day.
Mary Beth O'Connor (02:04):
Yeah, I mean , part of the reason I focused
on that and I'm glad you do isbecause it's such a common
pathway to substance usedisorder, which is what we call
drug addiction today.
And so I had a mother who wasn'treally connected to me or
focused on me and that sort ofcreated a lot of anxiety and
feeling like I was on my own.
I mean, even as a little girl Ihad like counting behaviors and
(02:26):
soothing behaviors.
But when I was nine she marriedmy stepfather and things got a
lot worse.
He was very violent with her,physically, sexually violent
with me.
It was just a very high stressenvironment and also an
environment where what I did andwhat happened to me were not
really connected.
On top of that, because I knewI didn't have like my mother as
(02:50):
a supportive parent, I reallyfelt alone and like I had to
handle this person on my own.
So it was a lot of stress andstrain and that sort of made the
drugs, when I first experiencedthem, seem in the beginning
like they were helping me,because they helped relieve the
tension, relieve the anxiety,put the pain at bay, and that's
sort of how that you oftentransition from that neglect and
(03:13):
or trauma into an excessivedrug use at a young age.
Beverley Glazer (03:18):
Yeah, and that happens a lot to children that
get into drugs and alcohol.
I mean they can test it out,but not everybody has a
substance dependency.
But I'm glad that you said it.
That soothing is what broughtyou to alcohol.
Was alcohol your first drug ofabuse?
Mary Beth O'Connor (03:36):
Alcohol was my first drug.
It was when I was 12, and itwas Boone's Farm Strawberry Hill
Wine, which a lot of peopleknow, a very sweet introductory
drug in my area.
Beverley Glazer (03:47):
Yeah, yeah.
And what escape did thatprovide for you?
Mary Beth O'Connor (03:51):
I mean, what I really noticed the first time
was that I sort of felt like mymuscles relaxed, like I could
take a deeper breath.
I was giggling with mygirlfriend in sort of like a
more openly joyful way and thatjust really captured my
attention, that this is a reallypositive experience and I
(04:12):
pursued it right away because Iwanted more.
I felt like I needed more, andso it was something that from
the beginning I was targetedtoward, my mind was focused on,
and then it just moved on.
I mean, I added in weed andpills, I did a lot of acid for a
while, and then at 16, I foundmethamphetamine, which became my
drug of choice, and I wasshooting meth at 17.
(04:33):
I mean, so it was a pretty fastand severe escalation.
Beverley Glazer (04:39):
But all the while you were going to college
as well, when you were 16, 17.
So how were you able to handleall that?
Because that's tricky.
What did you do?
Mary Beth O'Connor (04:53):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, for me school had always
been my one special place, likeit's, where I was special,
where I was seen.
I had always done wellacademically and the drug use
didn't really hit meacademically until I started
shooting math.
And so by the last few monthsof my senior year of high school
I was missing a lot of school,but I had always been a good
(05:16):
student and they let me make upthe work.
Plus, by the end of your senioryear I had already been
accepted to college.
You know, I was alreadyaccepted and ready to go and so
I went to.
I grew up in New Jersey and Icame to California for college.
I graduated from Berkeley and Idid do better for the first
couple of years of college, butmuch worse than everybody else.
But for me it was something ofan improvement.
But I had another reallylife-threatening sexual saw.
(05:38):
I had a violent boyfriend andthen I sort of like lost the
little bit of grip that I hadand in January of my senior year
I started using meth againregularly and I didn't get sober
till 32.
So that's sort of how the wholething played out.
Beverley Glazer (05:51):
Yeah.
So what was going on at thetime?
I mean here, what you weredoing was living the life of a
drug addict, trying to cope andgetting into like one experience
after another, because, I mean,I've dealt for many years
working with drug addicts andthey don't usually become
(06:12):
federal court judges.
So, before we even go back tothat, how did you go through
that insanity of methamphetamine, drugs and the lifestyle, mary
Beth?
Because it's a lifestyle on itsown.
You know that, yeah.
Mary Beth O'Connor (06:32):
Yeah, and I mean, and it's a pretty
miserable existence, right,because you know it's like
sometimes it was clear to methat, like you know, I was
poisoning myself with drugs andit was like a core problem.
And other times I didn't reallyunderstand how my life had
gotten so out of control.
I mean, I couldn't hold a job.
(06:53):
Every job was like less moneyand less responsibility, because
I couldn't get there and Icouldn't concentrate.
I was just getting more andmore trapped, more and more
hopeless, more and moredespairing.
And then my long-term partner,he was really done with me by 32
.
He was ready to throw me out.
And so your world just getssmaller and smaller and smaller
(07:16):
and smaller and you lose thingsthat you value.
I mean, you know, you losethings that are important to you
.
You're not making the progressthat others are making in their
life and it's very, very painful.
You're right, it's a verydebilitating and painful
experience.
Beverley Glazer (07:31):
Yeah, and you get used.
You get used.
You're using yourself, yourself-esteem is down and you get
used by people as well.
So how did you support yourself?
Like you said, you had menialjobs.
What did you do to supportyourself?
Mary Beth O'Connor (07:48):
I mean I was living with a partner who had a
regular job, so that was anadvantage you know that I had
and I would work and maybe I'dwork.
I hold a job for you know, ninemonths or a year and then I go
on employment for a while andthen I get another job and hold
it for nine months or a year,and so it was sort of like that
and my expenses were fairlyreasonable and methamphetamine
(08:10):
is not the most expensive of thedrugs you know.
Plus, I had a community of drugusers.
So a lot of drugs, you knowpeople give them to you Right.
If you're, if you're in withthe right crowd, a lot of drugs
are given to you, especiallywhen I was younger.
So it's sort of it was likethat.
But I was barely hanging on.
I mean, I had a Berkeley degreeand good grades and my last job
(08:31):
for rehab was word processing.
Beverley Glazer (08:45):
And I could only hold it for nine months,
Like that's sort of where I hadworked my way down to.
So did you go and work rightthrough and get that degree at
Berkeley, or did somehow thedrugs kicked in and you had to
stop and have to go back Likehow were you able to do all that
pressure?
I mean, a law degree is a lotof pressure.
How did you do that?
How did you manage that?
Mary Beth O'Connor (09:01):
Yeah.
And so for undergrad I did gostraight through and I worked
half time, but for the firstthree and a half years of
college my joke was better.
I mean, you know, not good, butit was a little better, but I
had actually.
I actually got accepted toBerkeley Law for right after,
you know, right after college.
But remember, in January of mysenior year of college I started
(09:23):
using meth again regularly.
So by the time I got to lawschool in the fall I was in no
shape to do it and like Icouldn't get the class, I would
literally miss weeks, you know,of class.
And so I had to withdraw.
I gave back a top 10 law schoolbecause I knew I would never be
able to finish, I'd never beable to pass the bar, and it was
a.
It was an agonizing loss.
(09:44):
It was an agonizing loss butthere was.
There was no way around it if Iwas going to keep using drugs,
and at the time I didn't see apath out of the drug use.
Beverley Glazer (09:54):
So what was that aha moment that you said
I'm going to have to stop this?
Mary Beth O'Connor (10:00):
Yeah, and so I mean, I know, in the movies
or television it's always thisepiphany right, right, that can
happen, like a DUI or you losecustody of your kids that can
happen.
But I think most people aremore like me, where it's the
cumulative impact of the lossesand the misery and the year
after year after year, and so by32, I'm having physical
(10:23):
problems.
As I said, I'm feeling veryhopeless, very trapped, very
debilitated.
My partner was ready to throwme out, and so it was all of
those things together that mademe finally say you know, maybe I
ought to go to rehab.
And when I went to rehab Ididn't think I could stop, like
I really didn't believe it waspossible.
I thought maybe I can figureout how to do better, like maybe
(10:45):
I can figure out how to do less.
It's not that I wanted to keepusing, it's that my imagination
didn't go all the way to stopright.
And I say that in part becauseI don't want people to feel like
there's this barrier tostarting the recovery process,
as in you have to be 100 percentsure that you're going to be
able to be sober before youstart.
(11:06):
Now many of us aren't sure,many of us are ambivalent or not
confident, and yet you canstill eventually get to success.
Just start where you are.
Start where you are eventuallyget to success.
Beverley Glazer (11:19):
Just start where you are.
Start where you are.
Yes, I would say just from theexperiences that I've had, and I
will go very general.
Really nobody that comes intorehab says I'm really going to
let this go.
I mean, it's really a slowprocess to even allow yourself
to believe that there's anotherlife possible for you, because
(11:40):
before you reach rehab you'vetried to succeed so many times
and fail.
So it's like and why?
Now you know?
And why now?
And so did you just have oneshot of rehab or did you go
through a few rehabs?
Because happens a lot, so whathappened?
Mary Beth O'Connor (11:59):
yeah, yeah, and I'll say that too.
Part of it is my biggest fearabout rehab was how will I
handle my pain?
Because I knew that my violencehistory, my, my you know my
trauma history was underneath mydrug use and so part of it was
that I couldn't imagine handlingmy pain without the drugs and
that was sort of like a barrierto seeking help.
But but I did do one rehab butI did a long-term program.
(12:22):
I went into a program that was90 days minimum and I stayed for
five months.
But I also didn't have perfectabstinence from day one, which
most of us don't have perfectabstinence from day one.
So I used three times in myfirst five months.
So not perfect, but that was avast improvement over where I
walked in right.
And so and the other thing ispart of the benefit of peer
(12:45):
support meetings like you know12 Steps or Life Ring or you
know she Recovers or whatever isthat you do start to see
examples of success and that canincrease your belief that it's
possible for you.
Like I think in early recoveryyou need to find hope that you,
that you can succeed, becauseearly recovery is hard work.
(13:06):
It's hard to do the hard workif you don't think success is
even on the table Right, and sothat is one of the advantages of
peer support is hearing peopletell their stories, getting to
know them and seeing people whoare like they were, as bad off
as I was, you know, in as longterm of an addiction as I was,
and now it's a year or two orthree years later and look at
(13:26):
where they are, and that canreally help a lot.
Beverley Glazer (13:29):
Yeah.
So peer support would beextremely important and if you
don't have peer support, youstill need support.
You cannot do this alone.
It is good to either have atherapist and have family that's
behind you, people that know,but it must have been very hard
(13:49):
to open up, because trauma Idon't have to tell you it's
trauma it's hard to open up tothat trauma.
So what allowed you to slowly,slowly share?
Was it peer support or 12 stepor therapy, or what allowed you
to do that?
Mary Beth O'Connor (14:06):
Yeah.
So I mean I did 12 steps.
But that was never a good fitfor me and so I used other peer
support programs like Women forSobriety, what today is Smart
Recovery, what today is LifeRing Secular Recovery.
But I also did do therapy.
So I went into rehab in 93, andthey actually didn't believe
that you should tackle both yourmental health and trauma at the
(14:29):
same time as your substance usedisorder.
But today we know you should,that you need to do both.
Dual diagnosis co-occurringdisorders we call today.
But I knew that the trauma wasunderneath my drug use and that
if I didn't get a handle on thatI wasn't going to ever be happy
or productive.
So when I got home from rehab Isearched for a therapist with
(14:50):
trauma expertise and I found one.
And that's when I started thatwork and I will say that my well
, she to my surprise butcorrectly diagnosed me with PTSD
, which for me today we wouldcall it complex PTSD, and it
showed up as very severe anxietywhich I struggled with.
It was harder, took more yearsand more effort to get my PTSD
(15:14):
and anxiety under good controlthan my substance use, because
it was more complicated and itcame first.
But I did need to tackle bothif I was ever going to.
You know, have a happy andproductive life.
Beverley Glazer (15:28):
How did you know your personal life affect
your work life, yourprofessional life?
How did that affect you, or didit?
Mary Beth O'Connor (15:37):
When I got sober.
Beverley Glazer (15:39):
Yes.
Mary Beth O'Connor (15:41):
Yeah, so I mean.
So I had some advantages inrecovery and one of them was
that I had a partner who wasready, willing to let me come
home and who was a safe partner,like I mean he was at, he was
really done with my drug use andwhen I was in rehab you know
they have those family sessionsand he would come up and he
would say I think it's too late,she's burned, you know, too
many bridges.
(16:01):
And but he, he did allow me tocome home and he sort of watched
and waited to see what wasgoing to happen and he was a
safe partner.
I mean, for example, alcoholwasn't my favorite drink but I
felt like I didn't want it inthe house because I didn't want
an impulse relapse and he drankwithout problems but he cleared
(16:23):
the alcohol out because I askedhim, he was supportive of my
recovery and that really didhelp.
And then once I was doing well,I mean my husband's always now
the, you know, the biggestcheerleader, like when I apply
for something, he's sure I'mgoing to get it, like he has all
the confidence in the world.
I'm the one who second guessesand isn't sure, and we know that
.
You know, having friends andfamily support can really make
(16:44):
the odds of recovery success alot higher, and so it is an
important factor.
Peer support is a way todevelop community, but it's also
helpful if you have otherfriends and family sort of on
your side and supporting you aswell 100%.
Beverley Glazer (16:59):
How did writing your memoir and that's quite a
name, from Junkie to Judge howdid that help you?
Yeah, yeah.
Mary Beth O'Connor (17:08):
So I mean when I was appointed a federal
judge and, by the way, I went toBerkeley Law like for real,
yeah, for real, for real.
When I had six and a half yearssober, at 39, I became a lawyer
at 42.
And so, because I didn't getsober till 32, right.
So six and a half years sober,I went to law school.
I became a federal judge at 20years sober.
(17:28):
So you know, it was aprogression from where I started
, when I got sober, with ahorrible, embarrassing resume,
although you know, a degree fromBerkeley and good grades to
work my way up to judge was a 20year process, a step by step,
you know, incremental, goingforward process.
And then when I was appointed ajudge, it was sort of a natural
(17:49):
reflection time, like yourquestion how the heck did I go
from shooting meth at 17 until32 to federal judge?
And so that's when I startedthinking about could my story be
of use?
You know, would my story be ofvalue?
And I, I actually hadn't read alot of recovery memoirs and so I
started reading them and andwhen I, when I, I didn't see the
(18:13):
book I wanted to write.
So I, a lot of recovery membersdon't show the why they don't
show what led up to theaddiction, and I wanted to do
that.
And so that's about the firstthird of my book.
And then I had the usual, youknow, drug chaos, misery, um, uh
, showing of that, um.
And then the last third is myfirst three years of recovery,
because a lot of members at theend it's like I went to a couple
(18:34):
of meetings and everything wasgreat and it's like, well,
that's not how recovery works.
And so the last third is thefirst three years of recovery,
both the substance and traumarecovery, but also about
building a more individualizedrecovery plan, not just doing a
12-step recovery.
I mean the way my techniquesand strategies can work for
(18:55):
12-step people.
But I didn't see a memoir thatwasn't explicitly 100% 12 steps
and I wanted to have anotherexample out there.
So that's sort of what I wasthinking about when I wrote the
book.
Beverley Glazer (19:06):
Okay, what's the key that you would say to
women who really want to nowreclaim their life?
What's the key thing they haveto do?
Mary Beth O'Connor (19:15):
I mean, I think it's important to do sort
of an honest assessment of whereyou are Right.
And I always say, you know, forme the analytical process is
sort of like who am I, where amI and where am I trying to get
to?
And like like when I got home Igot sober, I I would at 32, I
wanted to make up for lost time.
Like I would have loved to leapinto a professional job but
(19:36):
nobody would hire me for thatand I wasn't ready, you know.
So it's important, I think, tothink about sort of who am I as
an individual, what are my goalsand where am I?
What's my first step?
Because you know you reallyneed to focus on that
incremental Most things areincremental improvement, and so
if your dream job is four stepsaway, that's okay.
(20:00):
What's the next step?
How do you prepare yourself forthe next step?
Get the skills you need for thenext step, if you want to work
less or become an author orspend more time with your family
or, you know, join the, do amarathon or whatever it is.
I think it's sort of all thesame process about thinking
(20:21):
about what's the long-term goalbut then really focusing on
what's my first step to reachthat goal, because that's all
you can do today.
Is that first step, you know?
Beverley Glazer (20:30):
Yeah, no, that's right.
Just really think about it andlook at where you are and what
is that first step you know?
Yeah, no, that's right.
Just really think about it andlook at where you are and what's
the first thing you could doand then take action towards it.
Yes, yes, without the action,it's not going to happen.
Mary Beth O'Connor (20:43):
That's right .
That's right.
Sorry, I apologize.
Beverley Glazer (20:47):
Not at all.
I would just want to thank youso much for all this information
, because it's so important.
When people start thinking it'stoo late, for me to hear that
it's never too late.
Mary Beth O'Connor (21:06):
I got sober at 32.
I went to law school at 39.
I became a lawyer at 42, ajudge at 53, a published author
at 59.
You know, my book came out whenI was 61.
I mean, you know, there's a lotof different phases in our life
that we can keep on doingthings that are challenging and
interesting to us.
(21:27):
And so, yes, I like your aging,you know, with purpose, idea,
right.
And so it's really like when Iretired, it was about well, how
do I want to spend my time nowthat I don't have to, you know,
work full time and do a job?
I don't want to watch TV, Iwant to still be productive and,
you know, be of use and be ofservice in a new way.
And so it's sort of every phaseof life has its opportunity for
(21:51):
you to reevaluate and revisithow you want to spend your time,
what you're going to findrewarding, what you're going to
enjoy.
Beverley Glazer (21:58):
Yes, Thank you.
Thank you, Mary Beth O'Connor.
Mary Beth O'Connor is an author, a speaker and a recovery
advocate.
She has 30 years of sobrietyand has worked her way up to the
position of federal court judge.
Her book Junkie to Judge isavailable everywhere and, of
course, you can find that onAmazon as well.
(22:21):
Here are a few takeaways fromthis episode.
Find a safe place, Whether it'sschool, whether it's a trusted
friend or a supportive community.
This is your foundation.
Take bold steps like entering arecovery program or getting
professional help this can belife changing for you and always
(22:42):
believe that you can make yourlife different.
Mary Beth's journey fromaddiction to becoming a judge is
proof that transformation ispossible for anyone, as long as
you're willing to do the work.
If you've been relating to thisstory, take a moment and
reflect on how you can changeyour life for the better.
(23:03):
Perhaps it's by letting go someresentments or getting support,
or simply shifting your beliefthat you deserve better.
For similar inspiring storieson recovery and addiction, check
out episodes 98 and 101.
And where can people find you,Mary Beth?
(23:24):
What are your links?
Mary Beth O'Connor (23:26):
So my website is junketandjudgecom and
, like my opinion pieces arethere and so a lot of other
information.
My book, as you say, is onAmazon and all the usual sites,
and then I'm on LinkedIn.
You can reach me there.
I'm on X, you know, twitter, atMary Beth O underscore, and I
don't really argue with peoplethere, I just try to provide
(23:48):
information and ideas.
Right, and I just joined BlueSky and that's Mary Beth
O'Connor.
Beverley Glazer (23:54):
Terrific.
And if you didn't catch thoselinks, they're also going to be
in the show notes and they're onmy site too, that's
reinventimpossiblecom.
And now, my friends, what'snext for you?
Are you going through themotions or are you really
passionate about your life?
Get weekly self-coaching tipsto empower you through your
(24:15):
journey, and that link will alsobe in the show notes.
Yep, right below, right belowthis episode.
Okay, you can connect with me,Beverly Glazer, on all social
media platforms and in mypositive group of women on
Facebook.
That's Women Over 50 Rock.
And if you're looking forguidance in your own
transformation, I invite you toexplore reinventimpossiblecom.
(24:39):
Thank you for listening.
Have you enjoyed thisconversation?
Well, please subscribe so youdon't miss out on the next one,
and send this episode to afriend.
And always remember you onlyhave one life, so live it with
purpose and passion.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Thank you for joining us.
You can connect with Bev on herwebsite, reinventimpossiblecom
and, while you're there, joinour newsletter Subscribe so you
don't miss an episode.
Until next time, keep agingwith purpose and passion and
celebrate life.
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