July 23, 2025 • 41 mins
🚐 End-of-Life Caregiving Meets Viral Adventure
When Ramie Liddle’s 90-year-old mother-in-law said, “I’m hitting the road,” they skipped chemo, grabbed the RV keys—and unintentionally launched Driving Miss Norma, a global movement that redefined aging, caregiving, and midlife reinvention.
🎧 If you're a caregiver or a woman over 50 craving a second-act adventure, don’t miss this story of courage, connection, and finding joy on the road less traveled.
What if your biggest adventure began at 90?
Ramie Liddle and her husband, Tim, had been living a quiet, nomadic life in their Airstream trailer. But when Tim’s father passed suddenly—and his 90-year-old mother, Norma, was diagnosed with uterine cancer—everything changed.
Norma said, “I’m 90 years old. I’m hitting the road.” So they did.
No chemo. No nursing homes. Just a cross-country adventure that turned into a caregiving revolution.
What began as a small Facebook page became Driving Miss Norma—a viral social media sensation and bestselling book shared by millions around the world. Through Ramie’s lens, we witness a new model of end-of-life care: one built on dignity, choice, and love.
In this inspiring episode, Ramie shares:
- How caregiving became a global story of hope
- What people misunderstand about aging, dying, and legacy
- Her reinvention after 50—from grief to boat captain to motorcyclist
- Why saying yes can radically change your life—at any age
Whether you're navigating the realities of caregiving or dreaming of a reinvention chapter in your 50s, 60s, or beyond—Ramie’s story reminds us it’s never too late to start over.
🔗 Resources & Links
To hear the beginning of this incredible story and learn more about Norma, Ramie, Tim, and their therapy dog Ringo, Check out #21 of Aging With Purpose And Passion.
If you enjoy this podcast, I recommend "Older Women & Friends" with award-winning host Jane Leder. Jane and guests take a deep dive into the joys and challenges of being an older woman. "Older Women & Friends" is a podcast that sets the record straight, dispels the myths, explores the many contributions older women make, and the wisdom they have earned and are anxious to share.
- 📘 Driving Miss Norma – Official Site
- 📖 Get the Driving Miss Norma Book
- 🎁 Download Beverley’s Free Guide: From Stuck to Unstoppable
- 📩 Sign up for alerts for More Midlife Reinvention Stories and please help us spread the word by sending this episode to a friend.
Beverley Glazer
Website: https://reinventimpossible.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/beverleyglazer/
https://www.facebook.com/beverley.glazer
Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/womenover50rock
https://www.instagram.com/beverleyglazer_reinvention/
🎁 BONUS: Take your first step to clarity, courage and momentum. Your free checklist: → From Stuck to Unstoppable – is here.
https://reinvent-impossible.aweb.page/from-stuck-to-unstoppable
Have feedback or a powerful story that's worth telling? Contact us at info@Reinventimpossible.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to Aging with Purpose and Passion, the
podcast designed to inspire yourgreatness and thrive through
life.
Get ready to conquer your fears.
Here's your hostpsychotherapist, coach and
empowerment expert, BeverlyGlazer.
Beverley Glazer (00:37):
How can a full-time caregiver become an
international viral sensation?
Welcome to Aging with Purposeand Passion, the podcast for
women over 50 who are ready tostop settling and live life on
their own terms.
Each week, you'll hear rawconversations, inspiring stories
and get practical tools to helpyou reignite your own fire.
I'm Beverly Glaser, areinvention catalyst for women
(01:00):
who are ready to step up andstop settling, and you can find
me on re-inventimpossiblecom.
Rami Little is an accidentalphotojournalist, a reluctant
best-selling author and anunintentional creator of a
social media frenzy around theworld, all in the name of
(01:23):
protecting her mental healthwhile caring for her 90-year-old
mother-in-law with cancer.
Rami didn't set out to benoticed.
She just stepped up when lifedemanded, and sometimes the most
extraordinary lives begin whenwe stop waiting for permission.
Stop waiting for permission.
Keep listening to thisexceptional story, Rami.
(01:47):
Welcome.
Ramie Liddle (01:49):
Thank you, I'm really happy to be here.
Beverley Glazer (02:01):
It's a pleasure meeting you so far back.
You reminded me that it wasEpisode 21.
And oh my goodness, that was aremarkable journey back then.
And before we catch up, let'scircle back.
You and Tim never looked forattention, never.
The two of you chose to liveoff the grid.
(02:21):
That's how you didn't wantattention.
Chose to live off the gridthat's how you didn't want
attention.
And then you were nomads, andthat was before.
Even van life was cool, likewhat was going on.
Why did you decide to kind oflive off the grid and just
travel, live your life so freely?
Ramie Liddle (02:42):
Well, it went way back to before Tim and I met
each other.
We learned later, once we meteach other, that we had both
chosen to live in our vehicles.
This is in the 1980s.
I was just really tired ofpaying rent and I thought that
was a silly way to spend yourmoney is just to give it away to
somebody else when there wereother options.
(03:03):
And I worked in a YMCA so Ibought myself.
When all my friends weregetting their first cool car, I
bought a minivan and I turned itinto a little camper for myself
and stayed in the YMCA parkinglot.
No one knew the difference.
I'd go to work, take a shower,and there I was.
(03:26):
And I met Tim many, many yearslater and learned that he had
kind of the same idea and livedin his pickup truck as he was
remodeling homes around thecountry.
So we were kind of twolike-minded souls that found
each other, fortunately in thatregard.
And then over time we've livedin several different homes,
(03:46):
remodeled different homes, andevery time I was working as a
school counselor and so I wouldhave breaks, and every time our
break whether it was springbreak or fall break or summer
break or Christmas or whateverit was like where are we going?
What are we going to do?
And we had a little oldAirstream at the time and we
(04:06):
would hop in the Airstream andgo.
And it got to a point where werealized that we would much
rather live on the road than bein one place all the time.
And so we did it kind of as anexperiment, and we've been doing
it ever since.
So we're coming up on 22 yearsof nomadic living.
(04:30):
One way or another, yeah, oneway or another.
Beverley Glazer (04:32):
For sure we're going to be doing this nomadic
life.
It's incredible.
Yeah, so you and Tim were onthe road.
How did you support yourselves?
Ramie Liddle (04:43):
Well, like I said, he remodeled homes for a living
and so he was able to save alot of money.
We've been debt free since wegot married and it's just been
really important that you know.
People ask us all the time howdo you do this?
And really it's no debt and nokids.
Kids are expensive and so andwe're super frugal and so we
(05:05):
just continue to do that.
Now We'll probably talk alittle bit later.
We have a book out and sothat's supporting us as well
financially, but certainly it's.
It's been our lifestyle andjust kind of our frugality
that's afforded us thislifestyle.
Beverley Glazer (05:22):
So you were traveling around and did you
know that Tim's parents weresick or did you go specifically
to see them?
What went on there?
Ramie Liddle (05:33):
So every summer we kind of made this loop around
the country every year and thissummer we always found ourselves
in northern Michigan, where hisaging parents lived, and we
would spend, however amount oftime there and doing their kind
of honeydew list and they weredoing okay, you know, physically
, and we would make sure that wewould go every year and we'd
(05:55):
pull into the driveway and Tim'sdad would help us back up.
He was very particular, wantedus to be parked, just so, and
Norma would come out withcookies that she baked, and that
was our routine every year, andthis was the summer of 2015.
So now, 10 years ago, we pulledinto the driveway and they
(06:15):
didn't come out, and so we werelike that's odd.
And we had talked to them theday before, said we're on our
way, and they were excited, andso we got into the house and
right away realized somethingwas wrong.
We smelled something burning inthe oven.
They weren't in their lazy boychairs, which is where we would
have usually found them, andNorma had her cane in one hand
(06:40):
and Leo kind of in the other,with her arm around him, helping
walk him through the house fromthe bathroom, and he was in
extreme pain and we justhappened to show up right at
that moment and realized thatsomething was very wrong, and so
that was kind of the beginningof a shift for us into a
(07:03):
caregiving role.
Beverley Glazer (07:05):
And how long did you stay?
Ramie Liddle (07:08):
Well, leo ended up dying about 10 days later.
And, yeah, and two days afterthat, well, while he was in the
hospital and gettingtransitioned into hospice, norma
kind of leaned over to me shewas in one of those giant
hospital chairs, you know, forthe guests in the room and and
she said, can you take medownstairs?
(07:28):
I have an appointment.
And I was like sure, you know,here we go.
And so I, I took her downstairsat one o'clock and and we went
and, you know, had thisappointment and, um, it turned
out that they needed to run somemore tests and eventually we
learned that two days after Leodied, we learned that she had
(07:51):
uterine cancer, and so that was,you know, a lot of decisions
needed to make in a short periodof time.
And so we asked her, we said,you know, when the doctor gave
her the diagnosis, he wentthrough this process of, okay,
we're going to do a hysterectomy, she was 90 years old, we'll do
(08:13):
a hysterectomy and then we'regoing to do some radiation, then
some chemotherapy, and thenwe'll put you in a long-term or
into a therapeutic nursing homefor a while and then into
long-term care.
And so there it was.
They laid out her entire restof her life.
And he said so, mrs Bowershman,what would you like to do?
(08:35):
And he didn't give her anyother options.
He just put out those optionsand then said when should we
schedule the hysterectomy?
And so she sat up in herwheelchair.
We had had this conversationahead of time, so we knew what
was coming.
She sat up tall in herwheelchair and she said I'm 90
years old, I'm hitting the road.
And the OBGYN looked right atTim and he was like what is she
(09:02):
talking about?
And he said well, we kind oflive out of the box.
We live in a little Airstreamtravel trailer with our 73
pounds standard poodle and wetravel around.
And she doesn't, she can't liveat home by herself, she is not
interested anymore.
She said no more poking andprodding, I don't want any of
(09:24):
the treatment.
And so she decided she wants to.
She wanted to come live with us, like like a lot of adult kids
with aging parents, you know,bring your, bring your mom home,
um.
But our house had wheels andshe was, she was all for it and
and so we decided to.
I mean, tim, really Tim and Ihadn't talked about a pro and
con.
What is this going to do to ourmarriage, but we had already
(09:46):
put it out there.
And so here we go.
We're going to take this90-year-old mom who now has a
cancer diagnosis on the road.
And we asked the doctor.
We said you know, we do live alittle differently and perhaps
we're being irresponsible, andcan you give us a little reality
check on this?
And he said you know, asdoctors we see this every day.
(10:08):
She's very frail.
The side effects from thesurgery and then the treatment
following that are not going tobe friendly to her and it's
likely that this will be thebest day of the rest of her life
, like she will only go downhillfrom here.
And he said so if it were meand I was in this situation, I
(10:33):
would want to be in that motorhome.
And so there was the blessingfrom the doctor and we were like
, okay, let's give it a try.
And then we said what happenswhen she starts declining on the
road?
And he said well, if shehappens to die in her sleep in
the Walmart parking lotsomewhere, then just call 911
and they will help you.
(10:53):
If she starts to decline andyou need additional support, we
have no medical background atall.
And he said just call hospicewherever you are in the country
and they will help you.
And he said just call hospicewherever you are in the country
and they will help you.
And so we felt like we werearmed with these two options and
(11:13):
we went for it.
Beverley Glazer (11:14):
Well, now you're in a very enclosed space.
You're kids living, yes, yes,it sounds like it's easy.
The woman is 90 years old.
She's also grieving.
How did you go through that?
Ramie Liddle (11:32):
I thought I had it nailed.
I was like we can do this.
So we bought a bigger rig.
We lived in a little 19-footairstream that wasn't going to
work.
And so the three of us sat downand said what's it going to
take for us to live together?
And we had this greatconversation and wanted, you
know, separate living spaces anda bathroom that we didn't have
to walk through the otherperson's bedroom to use.
(11:54):
And, and Norma said what if wegot a washer and dryer?
And I was like whoa, that'srevolutionary.
So we got this, this motor home, and I was like we can totally
do this.
It's twice the size of anythingwe've lived in for a long time.
And so off we went, and well, Ishould say, you know, it took
(12:14):
us about five weeks to get thisall together before we pulled
out of her driveway.
And during that five weeks shecaught a cold and we thought
that's it, she's going to diebefore we leave.
You know, we had no idea whatwe were dealing with.
And um, so she, she got overthat cold and and we finally
left.
But but by this time I'm alittle bit nervous, like maybe I
(12:37):
am over my head, and and ourfirst stop was in um Mackinac
City, Michigan, and it was atthis beautiful campground that
overlooked Lake Huron andthere's a big for those, your
listeners, who know anythingabout that area.
There's a giant bridge thatgoes from the lower peninsula to
the northern peninsula ofMichigan, and it happened to be
(13:01):
really windy when we were thereand so they closed the bridge
and we couldn't go across thebridge for three days, and
during those three days I juststarted melting down Like what
have we done?
I had the whole year plannedout.
I knew where we were going tosleep every night, I had it all.
I was really organized and thenimmediately was not, because
(13:26):
everything had to get thrown outthe window, because we were
stuck, and so my very familiarfeelings of depression and
anxiety just trickled right inand I was like what am I going
to do?
How am I going to do this?
We never had kids.
I don't know how to care forsomebody.
(13:46):
And here we are, and Tim, he wasso sweet and he said he said,
honey, you love to takephotographs, so we're going to
go to some beautiful places.
Keep your camera.
This is before you know.
I had a cell phone in my pocketall the time.
He said keep your camera handyand take that as your self-care
is, to go and take these prettyphotographs of the natural world
(14:10):
that we're going to beexperiencing.
I was like, okay, I'll try that.
So I walked around thecampgrounds, windy and rainy and
I'm taking pictures of rocksand flowers and stuff, and then
we made our way on the road, wegot over the bridge and off we
went and we ended up eventuallyin Minnesota, in Blue Earth.
Minnesota, which not manypeople know, I don't think is
(14:32):
the home of the world's largestJolly Green Giant statue.
And so we're parked in aparking lot across the street
from this Jolly Green Giantstatue and I said, hey, norma,
let's go check this out.
So we got her in her wheelchairand wheeled over to the statue
and she locked the wheels of herwheelchair, grabbed her cane
(14:56):
and stood up and walked over infront of the statue.
And then she happened to have agreen sweater on that day she
put her hands on her hips, justlike the Jolly Green Giant does,
and she posed in front of thestatue.
And I had my camera with me.
So I took this photo andimmediately realized I don't
(15:17):
need to be taking pictures offlowers and rocks.
I need to be taking pictures ofNorma and I had no idea that
she was a ham and had this inher at all, and so that just
kind of started an uplift for meto be able to say, ok, this
will be fun.
If she's willing, this could bereally fun.
(15:38):
So that's kind of how thingsstarted.
Beverley Glazer (15:41):
And she did.
She stepped up to the plate allthe time.
Ramie Liddle (15:45):
She did.
And you know what's funny, bev,is that prior to that, for the
20 years that I knew her before,she was always like oh, I don't
take a good picture, don't takea photo of me, I just look
terrible in photos.
And she really did.
We went back through her photosand she just was like, hmm, and
something changed, and we likeand and something changed and
and we, um, we have a few reallysweet pictures of her.
(16:06):
Oh, yes, yeah.
Beverley Glazer (16:12):
So you were posting them on Facebook.
Is that what happened?
Ramie Liddle (16:22):
I used to keep a travel blog just of our travels
with Tim and I and and it wasway too cumbersome to keep up
with that blog there's a lot of,you know, layouts and stuff so
I thought I'll just throw it upon a Facebook page so my mom and
some of our friends who like toknow what we were doing could
follow along.
And so we started this Facebookpage.
It was called Driving MissNorma and there were 12 people
that followed it and those 12people were just like way to go,
(16:43):
that's how you do, you know,end of life care, and and they
were super supportive and so Ikept, I kept doing that and
that's.
That's.
That was the beginning, yeah.
Beverley Glazer (16:55):
So how did you go from 12 to millions?
Ramie Liddle (17:01):
Well, our, our friends started sharing it a
little bit, Like our one friend,susan.
She said you guys put it on herFacebook page.
She goes check out my friends,look what they're doing.
It's really cool.
And so she would share it.
And then we got started gettingpeople that we didn't know you
know they were friends offriends and Susan popped back on
(17:23):
and she said we were at like 88people and she said let's see
if we can get Ms Norman to ahundred people.
And we were like, yeah, we'llsend you a postcard from
wherever we are If we get to ahundred.
And we're kind of rolling oureyes, you know.
And and so we did, and we sentout a postcard from Estes park,
colorado and the Rocky Mountainsand we continued to go and
(17:45):
about six months in, we startedto notice that the people on
there were no longer likefriends of friends.
They were people that we had noconnection to at all and every
now and then when we were on theroad doing something, people
recognized it.
Norma was having a great time,we were having a great time and
(18:08):
they're like boy, you guys arewhat are you up to you?
know, and it would just bewheeling her down the street.
But I guess there was somethingthat people recognized.
And so about six months in wehad 500, I think 520 followers
and we were laughing.
We sat down to breakfast and wewere like I don't know 500.
(18:30):
Tim and I are introverts.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
I don't know 520 people Do you and he's like no,
norma, do you.
Ramie Liddle (18:34):
And she's like I don't even know five people.
And so we just couldn't believeit.
And right at that same timethere's an organization called
GNN it's the Good News Networkinstead of CNN.
So they heard about our storyand so they did a little story
on GNN and we had a conversationas a family Do we want to do
(18:57):
this?
Do we want to put ourselves outthere?
And Tim was like, oh, I don'tknow, this doesn't sound good to
me.
And Norma said you know, Ithink the world needs some more
good news, don't you?
And so we were like okay, ifNorma wants to do this and is
willing, then we'll go ahead anddo it.
And so this story came out fromGNN and they sent me a note and
(19:20):
said you know, it's up on ourpage now, if you want to see it
and send a link to the to thestory.
And we read it and was like oh,that's a nice story, that's
great.
And if it's GNN, nobody knowsabout GNN, We'll maybe get 50
more people, or something likethat.
And so then I went from that toour Facebook page and my
computer was flashing.
It was like 520, 612,.
(19:42):
It was like 520, 612, 738, 850.
And by the end of that day wehad CBS Evening News calling
they wanted to do a featurestory on it.
Journalists wanted to embedwith us and our whole life
exploded and I couldn't breathe.
Tim was like make it, stop, wecan't do this.
Unplug the internet, Stop, stop, stop, stop.
(20:04):
And we were just terrified andthere's no way you can really
stop the internet, and so itjust went from there.
My best friend was a teacher ofgifted students and she sat
them all down and opened up ourFacebook page and said, okay,
let's talk about statistics andhow things go viral and what
that means mathematically.
And they were just enthralledviral and what that means
(20:24):
mathematically.
And they were just enthralledwith the numbers that were
happening.
Beverley Glazer (20:30):
And so now you were recognized everywhere.
Ramie Liddle (20:33):
Everywhere.
Yeah, people were dropping totheir knees and weeping when
they saw us walking down thestreet.
Beverley Glazer (20:41):
Oh, my goodness , so did they invite you to
their towns, like how, that'swhat?
Ramie Liddle (20:49):
happened.
That's what happened.
Yeah, it was unbelievable.
We got invited to.
She got invited to throw outthe first pitch at a baseball
game.
She got invited to be the VIPat the Atlanta Hawks basketball
game.
She got invited.
So there was like big thingslike that, or someone that would
write and say we have the bestice cream in the entire country.
You have to come have a cone,you know.
(21:10):
Just all those kinds ofinvitations were happening, and
so we, from that point on, wewere riding a wave of love
across the continent.
That was just incredible.
And then, hearing from peopleall around the world, it was
unbelievable how significant ourlittle decision was to other
(21:34):
people.
We're still blown away by it 10years later.
Beverley Glazer (21:40):
And then you had to make the decision.
Hospice.
What was that day like?
Ramie Liddle (21:48):
Well, we were in San Juan Island, washington,
which is closer to Canada thanit is to the US.
It's off the coast of northwestWashington state and we had
friends that lived there andthey invited us to come and go
whale watching and there is abeautiful lavender farm there
(22:09):
and they said we have a greatspot for you to park your rig,
just hop on the ferry.
And we were like, oh, this willbe amazing.
And so we got there and we wereready to do all those things.
And it was right at that timewhere she just really started to
decline and it started gettingthe caregiving started getting
(22:31):
really hard and it kind oftransitioned from we're on
vacation with her and managingthis viral craziness to it's
time to really buckle down andunderstand what caregiving is.
Because she was, she was goingdownhill.
And then we remembered hospiceand and here we are more remote
(22:56):
than we could possibly be onthis little Island and sure
enough they had this wonderfulhospice.
The nurse would come in on theferry.
They had local people that thatwere supportive and and um, so
we had to go to their littlehealth center, um to get her, um
kind of prescription forhospice from from a doctor there
(23:17):
.
And so we did that and it andwe knew it was coming, but it
was still heavy, you know whenyou have to go through the
process.
And so we're like, okay, she'senrolled in hospice.
And that happened to be thefirst day of the San Juan County
Fair, and so we were wheelingthrough the parking lot back to
(23:41):
our car after getting thishospice recommendation and I
said, norma, do you want to goback to the motor home or the
county fairs in town?
Do you feel like going to thecounty fair?
And she said, do you think theyhave elephant ears at the
county fair?
I haven't had one in years.
(24:01):
And so we said, well, let's gofigure, find out.
And so we drove straight to thecounty fair from her hospice I
keep losing the word, but her,you know, hospice referral and
sure enough, they had elephantears and goats and chickens and
pigs and cows and all that stuff.
And we wheeled all around.
We were like this is hospice,miss norma style and um.
(24:24):
And so that was, that was a bigouting and we had a couple more
um before before.
Things kind of demanded thatshe stay at home.
Beverley Glazer (24:34):
Yeah, beautiful closure to the story.
Beautiful, but the story didn'tend.
And then I think it was HarperCollins you were invited to
write a book.
What happened so?
Ramie Liddle (24:53):
this is another thing of Tim.
Like honey, we are not writinga book.
Everyone's telling us write abook, you have to write a book.
There's a great story we can'twrite a book, we don't know how
to write a book, and, and thenwe really got convinced that, um
, that we needed to write a book.
And so we did, and, and we, we,we wrote it through Harper
(25:13):
Collins, which was such an honor, um, one of the biggest
publishing houses in the world,um, and so we spent our time her
last days while she was stillalive.
We were trying to meet thesedeadlines, and the last couple
of chapters were written livewhile she was dying, and so
(25:36):
there's no kind of surpriseending there.
We all know that's what all ofus are going to do, right, and
so we wrote this book.
We went on a 15-city book tour.
It ended up getting publishedin 10 languages around the world
and was really quite successful.
And so then the next questionwas what do we do now?
(26:02):
Our last stop on our book tourwas at the Little Public Library
in Northern Michigan, where Leoand Norma checked out books
every week of their last 30years.
They knew them very well, andso we went there and exceeded
the fire codes and had thiswonderful book, talk with a lot
of friends and loved ones, andthen the next day we were
(26:26):
sitting in their driveway in ourmotor home that we had done
this big adventure with, and itand all of it hit us like it was
delayed grief, um, about a yearafter the, um, the well, yeah,
about a year after Norma died.
And we were like, what do we donow?
(26:47):
Yeah, what do we do?
You know, like like there wasso much enthusiasm around our
story and our book and so muchattention and interviews and all
these things, and now it wasall over and we didn't know who
we were.
We didn't know how to act.
We really have had lostourselves, and I've learned
(27:08):
since that that's.
That's what happens withcaregivers, right, no matter
what, whether you have thisfantastical experience or not,
you lose yourself a little bitand sometimes a lot, and so it's
time for some real bigdecisions and some thinking and
(27:28):
some reinvention and things likethat.
And we just couldn't imaginecrawling back in that motorhome
and driving around.
It just didn't make any senseto us at all.
And so I was just being a totalsmart aleck, because Tim was in
a funk and I said why don't wejust escape it all and go live
on a boat somewhere?
(27:49):
And neither of us know how todrive a boat?
We've never.
Tim doesn't know how to swim.
It's not something that is partof our being.
And he was like what?
And I said yeah, we could godown the Mississippi River.
I was just being totally silly,trying to lighten up the mood.
(28:11):
And then I checked in with himlater in the day and he's on a
deep dive on the internetlooking for boats and and we we
actually, when we were withNorma at one point we were at
this little marina and there wasa rendezvous, these certain
little boats and and we werelike, oh, that that looks like
(28:31):
living in an RV, only on thewater.
And so he remembered that brandand so looked them up and the
name of the boat is called aRanger Tug and he found this
article that said Ranger Tugdash the Great Loop.
And we didn't know what thatwas.
But he was very interested andwe learned about America's Great
(28:52):
Loop, which is a 6,000 milescircumnavigation of the U?
S and Canada, eastern U?
S and Canada by waterway and ittakes about a year to to do
this loop and we were like Ithink we could do that.
And and we were.
We decided let's see if we canfind a boat.
So we did.
(29:12):
We sold our motorhome this isthe short version Sold the
motorhome, bought a boat.
Two weeks later we're on thegreat loop, on the 6,000 mile
journey, learning every singleday.
Beverley Glazer (29:22):
You did nothing , nothing, so how did you learn?
Ramie Liddle (29:27):
this when we bought the boat.
Part of the package from buyingthe boat is that we got four
lessons from a captain ateaching captain and I started
getting a little anxious again.
My anxiety was coming in, andTim's been the driver of our
(29:47):
motor home for our entire lives,and so I sometimes felt like a
passenger in my life and I waslike I don't want to feel that
way again, and is that going tobe more of the same if we do
this boat thing?
And I'm just sitting beside himas he's driving the boat, and
so I told him, I said I reallywould like to be the captain,
(30:08):
and he said I love that idea.
And so the four lessons were allhanded to me and I learned the
basics of how to operate thisboat, and then I taught myself
navigation, and then it wasreally like I have a few
(30:31):
advanced degrees and this was nojoke much more difficult than
any graduate school that I'vebeen through, right.
And so every night it was likea study session of OK, we made
it 30 miles, and now what doestomorrow look like?
And it was this series of oneday trips and and we crossed
(30:52):
Lake Michigan, went throughdowntown Chicago and down those
rivers all the way to the Gulfof Mexico.
And, and by the time we got toFlorida, there were other
captains following me, becausethey were like boy, you really
seem to know what you're doing,and I was like okay.
Beverley Glazer (31:08):
So From van life it was, boat life it was it
was boat life, it was, it wasboat life and then the pandemic
hit.
Ramie Liddle (31:17):
Yes, and what happened.
So we lived on the boat, for wedid the loop.
It took us about a year.
So we lived on the boat forthree years total and and we
really, by the end of threeyears, we're feeling quite
confident and and feeling likewe were ready for another
boating adventure.
And so our boat is trailerable,and so we decided to call a
(31:41):
trucking company and have itshipped to the West Coast and we
were going to go back to thesame area where Norma died, in
the San Juan Islands, and thenwe were going to go up the
inside passage to Alaska on ourboat.
We were very excited about that.
A friend of ours was going togo with us.
(32:02):
They bought a boat too, and thefour of us were going to have
this adventure to Alaska.
And right when we were gettingready to put the boat on the
truck is when everything shutdown, including the Canadian
waters, and so even if we gotour boat out there, it wouldn't
have, we couldn't have goneanywhere because we couldn't go
(32:22):
into the Canadian waters.
So at that point we sold ourboat.
Our friends, the same peoplethat that we were at their, at
their place when Norma passed,said why don't you come on out
here and wait for this to passand then see what happens.
And that's when it becamereally clear it's not going to
pass anytime soon.
So we sold our boat at thatpoint and ended up living in
(32:45):
their barn on San Juan Islandfor two years waiting for it to
pass.
Beverley Glazer (32:53):
And now you're not in a barn, but you are in a
ranch.
Ramie Liddle (32:57):
Yeah.
So now full circle back tocaregiving.
A dear friend of ours, who is ahorse breeder in Arizona and
significantly younger than us,got a really nasty cancer
diagnosis about a year and ahalf ago and she's a single mom.
She's we call her badass.
She's just amazing what shedoes and how she works with
(33:19):
these animals.
And that knocked her down andwe were coming back around to
pay a visit there for a coupleweeks and realized that she
needed help and her, her ranchwas really in in disrepair and
there was just way too much thatthat that needed to be done.
(33:42):
That she certainly couldn't doand she had some support for
some from some other friends.
But we were like, you know, wedon't have an agenda right now,
why don't we just stay?
And so we decided to stay hereand become ranch hands, and so
that you know, caregiving looksdifferent sometimes.
Right, it's not always amedical thing, it's how can you
(34:05):
support your loved one inwhatever aspect that they need?
Like she had the medicalsupport, she had the familial
support, but she didn't havesomeone that was there, you know
, training her horses andshoveling the stalls and just
making sure that the day-to-dayoperations mending fences, all
(34:26):
that stuff.
And so we were like well, wecan learn how to do that if we
can learn how to do all theseother things.
And so we've been here helpingwith the ranch, and this week a
new foal was born, which was abig first experience for me too,
so that was wonderful.
Beverley Glazer (34:41):
Wow yeah, how has caregiving shaped your views
on aging, Ramie?
Ramie Liddle (34:49):
You know we're all going there and I remember
looking at Norma at one point,at you know we're all going
there.
And I remember looking at Normaat one point at you know, 90,
91 years old, and and looking atall the creases and wrinkles in
her face and thinking, oh myGod, she is so beautiful.
And that was a huge shift forme.
You know I'm in my fifties atthe time and thinking, oh, you
(35:11):
know every little you know youget, you get to that place in
life where you're pickingyourself apart and, oh, I'm
trying to keep those wrinklesand and and the hair and all
that stuff.
And then I was like you knowwhat?
I think the older you get, themore beautiful.
Like there's, there's thiswisdom that comes into your face
and that this wisdom that comesinto your face and that really
(35:35):
hit me.
You know I let my hair go andI'm embracing this gray thing
now.
I am recognizing the joy thatcan come with aging and I'm also
really seeing that.
You know it's not over.
There's so many things.
Our next thing we're going toleave the ranch here in
(35:56):
September and we're going totravel around the world.
And so we started studying up onthe places that we wanted to go
and realized thattransportation in a big part of
the world is by motorcycle, andif you want to see the cool
things, you need to ride amotorcycle.
And again, no clue how to ridea motorcycle.
And so, at 60 years old, I justgot my motorcycle license and
(36:21):
have been riding my motorcycle.
I bought a motorcycle Tim and Iboth did and we're practicing
that so that we're ready to gowhen we're traveling in these
other countries to be able tolive like the locals and see
what they see.
And so those are all lessons of.
You know, when I was 30, wouldI have ever thought that at 60,
I was going to hop on amotorcycle and, you know, travel
(36:43):
in Thailand or something likethat?
No, and so just that kind ofpermission to continue living as
long as you can and, and withgreat joy, and, and, and, yeah,
yeah for someone,unintentionally, who made a
(37:04):
difference to millions allaround the world.
Beverley Glazer (37:07):
rami, what would you tell our listeners
about stepping up and saying yes?
Ramie Liddle (37:12):
Oh, that's well, you just said it is say yes.
You know there's so many waysto come up with ideas of oh,
that's not, that's not reallypractical, or I could, I could
never do that.
But if it's really in you, ifit's in your heart and your soul
, and or you're just supercurious about something, go for
it.
Go for it.
Oh my gosh about something.
Beverley Glazer (37:38):
Go for it.
Go for it.
Oh my gosh.
There's so much to do out there.
Oh my gosh.
Rami Little is a speaker, aworld traveler and a virtual
book club guest.
She is widely regarded for herstorytelling authenticity and
insight into caregiving and whatmatters at the end of life.
Rami's adventures have touchedthe hearts of millions.
In her 50s, she learned tocaptain a boat and took off on a
(38:03):
10,000-mile journey, and now,at 60, she bought a motorcycle
and she's planning her nextgrand adventure in Southeast
Asia and traveling the world.
Here's some takeaways from thisepisode Saying yes can change
your world.
Caregiving can be a burden, butit can also be a gift, and
(38:26):
you're never too old to reinventyourself and live the life of
your dreams.
If you've been relating to thisepisode, here are a few things
that you could do for yourselfright now.
Be courageous in micro moments.
Speak up, take the wheel, askfor help and say yes to one
(38:47):
small thing today, even if itscares you.
Thing today, even if it scaresyou.
If you've been relating to thisepisode and want to hear more
about Rami Little's journey withher incredible mother-in-law,
ms Norma, and Tim and we didn'tmention her as therapy dog Ringo
.
Check out episode 21 of Agingwith Purpose and Passion, and if
(39:14):
you love podcasts of olderwomen, you may also enjoy Older
Women and Friends withaward-winning host Jane Leder.
Jane takes a deep dive into thejoys and challenges of being
older, older Women and Friends,sets the record straight,
(39:36):
dispels the myth and exploresthe contribution and wisdom that
women are anxious to share.
That link will be in the shownotes here and so, rami, where
can people learn about you andNorma and, of course, ringo and
all of your amazing adventures?
Ramie Liddle (39:49):
I need to say one thing about Ringo.
At end of his life he was he at12.
He decided to be a formalhospice therapy dog, and so that
was when we were on our boat.
We would go from hospice tohospice and Ringo would would be
the therapy dog there.
So we miss him dearly, but youcan learn more at, of course,
(40:11):
the Facebook page at DrivingMiss Norma and MissNorma.
com are the best places to findus.
Beverley Glazer (40:19):
Yeah, all of Ramie's links, missnorma.
com and everything about her ison that website, and it will
also be on ReinventImpossiblecom.
And so, my friends, what's nextfor you?
Are you just going through themotions or are you living a life
that you truly love?
Get my free guide to go fromstuck to unstoppable, and that's
(40:41):
also in the show notes too.
You can connect with me,beverly Glazer, on all social
media platforms and in mypositive group of women on
Facebook, women Over 50 Rock,and thank you for listening.
Have you enjoyed thisconversation?
Please subscribe and help usspread the word by dropping a
review, sending it to a friend,and remember you only have one
(41:06):
life, so live it with purposeand passion, and passion.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Thank you for joining us.
You can connect with Bev on herwebsite, reinventimpossible.
com and, while you're there,join our newsletter subscribe so
you don't miss an episode.
Until next time, keep agingwith purpose and passion and
celebrate life.
Welcome to Aging with Purpose and Passion, the
podcast designed to inspire yourgreatness and thrive through
life.
Get ready to conquer your fears.
Here's your hostpsychotherapist, coach and
empowerment expert, BeverlyGlazer.
Beverley Glazer (00:37):
How can a full-time caregiver become an
international viral sensation?
Welcome to Aging with Purposeand Passion, the podcast for
women over 50 who are ready tostop settling and live life on
their own terms.
Each week, you'll hear rawconversations, inspiring stories
and get practical tools to helpyou reignite your own fire.
I'm Beverly Glaser, areinvention catalyst for women
(01:00):
who are ready to step up andstop settling, and you can find
me on re-inventimpossiblecom.
Rami Little is an accidentalphotojournalist, a reluctant
best-selling author and anunintentional creator of a
social media frenzy around theworld, all in the name of
(01:23):
protecting her mental healthwhile caring for her 90-year-old
mother-in-law with cancer.
Rami didn't set out to benoticed.
She just stepped up when lifedemanded, and sometimes the most
extraordinary lives begin whenwe stop waiting for permission.
Stop waiting for permission.
Keep listening to thisexceptional story, Rami.
(01:47):
Welcome.
Ramie Liddle (01:49):
Thank you, I'm really happy to be here.
Beverley Glazer (02:01):
It's a pleasure meeting you so far back.
You reminded me that it wasEpisode 21.
And oh my goodness, that was aremarkable journey back then.
And before we catch up, let'scircle back.
You and Tim never looked forattention, never.
The two of you chose to liveoff the grid.
(02:21):
That's how you didn't wantattention.
Chose to live off the gridthat's how you didn't want
attention.
And then you were nomads, andthat was before.
Even van life was cool, likewhat was going on.
Why did you decide to kind oflive off the grid and just
travel, live your life so freely?
Ramie Liddle (02:42):
Well, it went way back to before Tim and I met
each other.
We learned later, once we meteach other, that we had both
chosen to live in our vehicles.
This is in the 1980s.
I was just really tired ofpaying rent and I thought that
was a silly way to spend yourmoney is just to give it away to
somebody else when there wereother options.
(03:03):
And I worked in a YMCA so Ibought myself.
When all my friends weregetting their first cool car, I
bought a minivan and I turned itinto a little camper for myself
and stayed in the YMCA parkinglot.
No one knew the difference.
I'd go to work, take a shower,and there I was.
(03:26):
And I met Tim many, many yearslater and learned that he had
kind of the same idea and livedin his pickup truck as he was
remodeling homes around thecountry.
So we were kind of twolike-minded souls that found
each other, fortunately in thatregard.
And then over time we've livedin several different homes,
(03:46):
remodeled different homes, andevery time I was working as a
school counselor and so I wouldhave breaks, and every time our
break whether it was springbreak or fall break or summer
break or Christmas or whateverit was like where are we going?
What are we going to do?
And we had a little oldAirstream at the time and we
(04:06):
would hop in the Airstream andgo.
And it got to a point where werealized that we would much
rather live on the road than bein one place all the time.
And so we did it kind of as anexperiment, and we've been doing
it ever since.
So we're coming up on 22 yearsof nomadic living.
(04:30):
One way or another, yeah, oneway or another.
Beverley Glazer (04:32):
For sure we're going to be doing this nomadic
life.
It's incredible.
Yeah, so you and Tim were onthe road.
How did you support yourselves?
Ramie Liddle (04:43):
Well, like I said, he remodeled homes for a living
and so he was able to save alot of money.
We've been debt free since wegot married and it's just been
really important that you know.
People ask us all the time howdo you do this?
And really it's no debt and nokids.
Kids are expensive and so andwe're super frugal and so we
(05:05):
just continue to do that.
Now We'll probably talk alittle bit later.
We have a book out and sothat's supporting us as well
financially, but certainly it's.
It's been our lifestyle andjust kind of our frugality
that's afforded us thislifestyle.
Beverley Glazer (05:22):
So you were traveling around and did you
know that Tim's parents weresick or did you go specifically
to see them?
What went on there?
Ramie Liddle (05:33):
So every summer we kind of made this loop around
the country every year and thissummer we always found ourselves
in northern Michigan, where hisaging parents lived, and we
would spend, however amount oftime there and doing their kind
of honeydew list and they weredoing okay, you know, physically
, and we would make sure that wewould go every year and we'd
(05:55):
pull into the driveway and Tim'sdad would help us back up.
He was very particular, wantedus to be parked, just so, and
Norma would come out withcookies that she baked, and that
was our routine every year, andthis was the summer of 2015.
So now, 10 years ago, we pulledinto the driveway and they
(06:15):
didn't come out, and so we werelike that's odd.
And we had talked to them theday before, said we're on our
way, and they were excited, andso we got into the house and
right away realized somethingwas wrong.
We smelled something burning inthe oven.
They weren't in their lazy boychairs, which is where we would
have usually found them, andNorma had her cane in one hand
(06:40):
and Leo kind of in the other,with her arm around him, helping
walk him through the house fromthe bathroom, and he was in
extreme pain and we justhappened to show up right at
that moment and realized thatsomething was very wrong, and so
that was kind of the beginningof a shift for us into a
(07:03):
caregiving role.
Beverley Glazer (07:05):
And how long did you stay?
Ramie Liddle (07:08):
Well, leo ended up dying about 10 days later.
And, yeah, and two days afterthat, well, while he was in the
hospital and gettingtransitioned into hospice, norma
kind of leaned over to me shewas in one of those giant
hospital chairs, you know, forthe guests in the room and and
she said, can you take medownstairs?
(07:28):
I have an appointment.
And I was like sure, you know,here we go.
And so I, I took her downstairsat one o'clock and and we went
and, you know, had thisappointment and, um, it turned
out that they needed to run somemore tests and eventually we
learned that two days after Leodied, we learned that she had
(07:51):
uterine cancer, and so that was,you know, a lot of decisions
needed to make in a short periodof time.
And so we asked her, we said,you know, when the doctor gave
her the diagnosis, he wentthrough this process of, okay,
we're going to do a hysterectomy, she was 90 years old, we'll do
(08:13):
a hysterectomy and then we'regoing to do some radiation, then
some chemotherapy, and thenwe'll put you in a long-term or
into a therapeutic nursing homefor a while and then into
long-term care.
And so there it was.
They laid out her entire restof her life.
And he said so, mrs Bowershman,what would you like to do?
(08:35):
And he didn't give her anyother options.
He just put out those optionsand then said when should we
schedule the hysterectomy?
And so she sat up in herwheelchair.
We had had this conversationahead of time, so we knew what
was coming.
She sat up tall in herwheelchair and she said I'm 90
years old, I'm hitting the road.
And the OBGYN looked right atTim and he was like what is she
(09:02):
talking about?
And he said well, we kind oflive out of the box.
We live in a little Airstreamtravel trailer with our 73
pounds standard poodle and wetravel around.
And she doesn't, she can't liveat home by herself, she is not
interested anymore.
She said no more poking andprodding, I don't want any of
(09:24):
the treatment.
And so she decided she wants to.
She wanted to come live with us, like like a lot of adult kids
with aging parents, you know,bring your, bring your mom home,
um.
But our house had wheels andshe was, she was all for it and
and so we decided to.
I mean, tim, really Tim and Ihadn't talked about a pro and
con.
What is this going to do to ourmarriage, but we had already
(09:46):
put it out there.
And so here we go.
We're going to take this90-year-old mom who now has a
cancer diagnosis on the road.
And we asked the doctor.
We said you know, we do live alittle differently and perhaps
we're being irresponsible, andcan you give us a little reality
check on this?
And he said you know, asdoctors we see this every day.
(10:08):
She's very frail.
The side effects from thesurgery and then the treatment
following that are not going tobe friendly to her and it's
likely that this will be thebest day of the rest of her life
, like she will only go downhillfrom here.
And he said so if it were meand I was in this situation, I
(10:33):
would want to be in that motorhome.
And so there was the blessingfrom the doctor and we were like
, okay, let's give it a try.
And then we said what happenswhen she starts declining on the
road?
And he said well, if shehappens to die in her sleep in
the Walmart parking lotsomewhere, then just call 911
and they will help you.
(10:53):
If she starts to decline andyou need additional support, we
have no medical background atall.
And he said just call hospicewherever you are in the country
and they will help you.
And he said just call hospicewherever you are in the country
and they will help you.
And so we felt like we werearmed with these two options and
(11:13):
we went for it.
Beverley Glazer (11:14):
Well, now you're in a very enclosed space.
You're kids living, yes, yes,it sounds like it's easy.
The woman is 90 years old.
She's also grieving.
How did you go through that?
Ramie Liddle (11:32):
I thought I had it nailed.
I was like we can do this.
So we bought a bigger rig.
We lived in a little 19-footairstream that wasn't going to
work.
And so the three of us sat downand said what's it going to
take for us to live together?
And we had this greatconversation and wanted, you
know, separate living spaces anda bathroom that we didn't have
to walk through the otherperson's bedroom to use.
(11:54):
And, and Norma said what if wegot a washer and dryer?
And I was like whoa, that'srevolutionary.
So we got this, this motor home, and I was like we can totally
do this.
It's twice the size of anythingwe've lived in for a long time.
And so off we went, and well, Ishould say, you know, it took
(12:14):
us about five weeks to get thisall together before we pulled
out of her driveway.
And during that five weeks shecaught a cold and we thought
that's it, she's going to diebefore we leave.
You know, we had no idea whatwe were dealing with.
And um, so she, she got overthat cold and and we finally
left.
But but by this time I'm alittle bit nervous, like maybe I
(12:37):
am over my head, and and ourfirst stop was in um Mackinac
City, Michigan, and it was atthis beautiful campground that
overlooked Lake Huron andthere's a big for those, your
listeners, who know anythingabout that area.
There's a giant bridge thatgoes from the lower peninsula to
the northern peninsula ofMichigan, and it happened to be
(13:01):
really windy when we were thereand so they closed the bridge
and we couldn't go across thebridge for three days, and
during those three days I juststarted melting down Like what
have we done?
I had the whole year plannedout.
I knew where we were going tosleep every night, I had it all.
I was really organized and thenimmediately was not, because
(13:26):
everything had to get thrown outthe window, because we were
stuck, and so my very familiarfeelings of depression and
anxiety just trickled right inand I was like what am I going
to do?
How am I going to do this?
We never had kids.
I don't know how to care forsomebody.
(13:46):
And here we are, and Tim, he wasso sweet and he said he said,
honey, you love to takephotographs, so we're going to
go to some beautiful places.
Keep your camera.
This is before you know.
I had a cell phone in my pocketall the time.
He said keep your camera handyand take that as your self-care
is, to go and take these prettyphotographs of the natural world
(14:10):
that we're going to beexperiencing.
I was like, okay, I'll try that.
So I walked around thecampgrounds, windy and rainy and
I'm taking pictures of rocksand flowers and stuff, and then
we made our way on the road, wegot over the bridge and off we
went and we ended up eventuallyin Minnesota, in Blue Earth.
Minnesota, which not manypeople know, I don't think is
(14:32):
the home of the world's largestJolly Green Giant statue.
And so we're parked in aparking lot across the street
from this Jolly Green Giantstatue and I said, hey, norma,
let's go check this out.
So we got her in her wheelchairand wheeled over to the statue
and she locked the wheels of herwheelchair, grabbed her cane
(14:56):
and stood up and walked over infront of the statue.
And then she happened to have agreen sweater on that day she
put her hands on her hips, justlike the Jolly Green Giant does,
and she posed in front of thestatue.
And I had my camera with me.
So I took this photo andimmediately realized I don't
(15:17):
need to be taking pictures offlowers and rocks.
I need to be taking pictures ofNorma and I had no idea that
she was a ham and had this inher at all, and so that just
kind of started an uplift for meto be able to say, ok, this
will be fun.
If she's willing, this could bereally fun.
(15:38):
So that's kind of how thingsstarted.
Beverley Glazer (15:41):
And she did.
She stepped up to the plate allthe time.
Ramie Liddle (15:45):
She did.
And you know what's funny, bev,is that prior to that, for the
20 years that I knew her before,she was always like oh, I don't
take a good picture, don't takea photo of me, I just look
terrible in photos.
And she really did.
We went back through her photosand she just was like, hmm, and
something changed, and we likeand and something changed and
and we, um, we have a few reallysweet pictures of her.
(16:06):
Oh, yes, yeah.
Beverley Glazer (16:12):
So you were posting them on Facebook.
Is that what happened?
Ramie Liddle (16:22):
I used to keep a travel blog just of our travels
with Tim and I and and it wasway too cumbersome to keep up
with that blog there's a lot of,you know, layouts and stuff so
I thought I'll just throw it upon a Facebook page so my mom and
some of our friends who like toknow what we were doing could
follow along.
And so we started this Facebookpage.
It was called Driving MissNorma and there were 12 people
that followed it and those 12people were just like way to go,
(16:43):
that's how you do, you know,end of life care, and and they
were super supportive and so Ikept, I kept doing that and
that's.
That's.
That was the beginning, yeah.
Beverley Glazer (16:55):
So how did you go from 12 to millions?
Ramie Liddle (17:01):
Well, our, our friends started sharing it a
little bit, Like our one friend,susan.
She said you guys put it on herFacebook page.
She goes check out my friends,look what they're doing.
It's really cool.
And so she would share it.
And then we got started gettingpeople that we didn't know you
know they were friends offriends and Susan popped back on
(17:23):
and she said we were at like 88people and she said let's see
if we can get Ms Norman to ahundred people.
And we were like, yeah, we'llsend you a postcard from
wherever we are If we get to ahundred.
And we're kind of rolling oureyes, you know.
And and so we did, and we sentout a postcard from Estes park,
colorado and the Rocky Mountainsand we continued to go and
(17:45):
about six months in, we startedto notice that the people on
there were no longer likefriends of friends.
They were people that we had noconnection to at all and every
now and then when we were on theroad doing something, people
recognized it.
Norma was having a great time,we were having a great time and
(18:08):
they're like boy, you guys arewhat are you up to you?
know, and it would just bewheeling her down the street.
But I guess there was somethingthat people recognized.
And so about six months in wehad 500, I think 520 followers
and we were laughing.
We sat down to breakfast and wewere like I don't know 500.
(18:30):
Tim and I are introverts.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
I don't know 520 people Do you and he's like no,
norma, do you.
Ramie Liddle (18:34):
And she's like I don't even know five people.
And so we just couldn't believeit.
And right at that same timethere's an organization called
GNN it's the Good News Networkinstead of CNN.
So they heard about our storyand so they did a little story
on GNN and we had a conversationas a family Do we want to do
(18:57):
this?
Do we want to put ourselves outthere?
And Tim was like, oh, I don'tknow, this doesn't sound good to
me.
And Norma said you know, Ithink the world needs some more
good news, don't you?
And so we were like okay, ifNorma wants to do this and is
willing, then we'll go ahead anddo it.
And so this story came out fromGNN and they sent me a note and
(19:20):
said you know, it's up on ourpage now, if you want to see it
and send a link to the to thestory.
And we read it and was like oh,that's a nice story, that's
great.
And if it's GNN, nobody knowsabout GNN, We'll maybe get 50
more people, or something likethat.
And so then I went from that toour Facebook page and my
computer was flashing.
It was like 520, 612,.
(19:42):
It was like 520, 612, 738, 850.
And by the end of that day wehad CBS Evening News calling
they wanted to do a featurestory on it.
Journalists wanted to embedwith us and our whole life
exploded and I couldn't breathe.
Tim was like make it, stop, wecan't do this.
Unplug the internet, Stop, stop, stop, stop.
(20:04):
And we were just terrified andthere's no way you can really
stop the internet, and so itjust went from there.
My best friend was a teacher ofgifted students and she sat
them all down and opened up ourFacebook page and said, okay,
let's talk about statistics andhow things go viral and what
that means mathematically.
And they were just enthralledviral and what that means
(20:24):
mathematically.
And they were just enthralledwith the numbers that were
happening.
Beverley Glazer (20:30):
And so now you were recognized everywhere.
Ramie Liddle (20:33):
Everywhere.
Yeah, people were dropping totheir knees and weeping when
they saw us walking down thestreet.
Beverley Glazer (20:41):
Oh, my goodness , so did they invite you to
their towns, like how, that'swhat?
Ramie Liddle (20:49):
happened.
That's what happened.
Yeah, it was unbelievable.
We got invited to.
She got invited to throw outthe first pitch at a baseball
game.
She got invited to be the VIPat the Atlanta Hawks basketball
game.
She got invited.
So there was like big thingslike that, or someone that would
write and say we have the bestice cream in the entire country.
You have to come have a cone,you know.
(21:10):
Just all those kinds ofinvitations were happening, and
so we, from that point on, wewere riding a wave of love
across the continent.
That was just incredible.
And then, hearing from peopleall around the world, it was
unbelievable how significant ourlittle decision was to other
(21:34):
people.
We're still blown away by it 10years later.
Beverley Glazer (21:40):
And then you had to make the decision.
Hospice.
What was that day like?
Ramie Liddle (21:48):
Well, we were in San Juan Island, washington,
which is closer to Canada thanit is to the US.
It's off the coast of northwestWashington state and we had
friends that lived there andthey invited us to come and go
whale watching and there is abeautiful lavender farm there
(22:09):
and they said we have a greatspot for you to park your rig,
just hop on the ferry.
And we were like, oh, this willbe amazing.
And so we got there and we wereready to do all those things.
And it was right at that timewhere she just really started to
decline and it started gettingthe caregiving started getting
(22:31):
really hard and it kind oftransitioned from we're on
vacation with her and managingthis viral craziness to it's
time to really buckle down andunderstand what caregiving is.
Because she was, she was goingdownhill.
And then we remembered hospiceand and here we are more remote
(22:56):
than we could possibly be onthis little Island and sure
enough they had this wonderfulhospice.
The nurse would come in on theferry.
They had local people that thatwere supportive and and um, so
we had to go to their littlehealth center, um to get her, um
kind of prescription forhospice from from a doctor there
(23:17):
.
And so we did that and it andwe knew it was coming, but it
was still heavy, you know whenyou have to go through the
process.
And so we're like, okay, she'senrolled in hospice.
And that happened to be thefirst day of the San Juan County
Fair, and so we were wheelingthrough the parking lot back to
(23:41):
our car after getting thishospice recommendation and I
said, norma, do you want to goback to the motor home or the
county fairs in town?
Do you feel like going to thecounty fair?
And she said, do you think theyhave elephant ears at the
county fair?
I haven't had one in years.
(24:01):
And so we said, well, let's gofigure, find out.
And so we drove straight to thecounty fair from her hospice I
keep losing the word, but her,you know, hospice referral and
sure enough, they had elephantears and goats and chickens and
pigs and cows and all that stuff.
And we wheeled all around.
We were like this is hospice,miss norma style and um.
(24:24):
And so that was, that was a bigouting and we had a couple more
um before before.
Things kind of demanded thatshe stay at home.
Beverley Glazer (24:34):
Yeah, beautiful closure to the story.
Beautiful, but the story didn'tend.
And then I think it was HarperCollins you were invited to
write a book.
What happened so?
Ramie Liddle (24:53):
this is another thing of Tim.
Like honey, we are not writinga book.
Everyone's telling us write abook, you have to write a book.
There's a great story we can'twrite a book, we don't know how
to write a book, and, and thenwe really got convinced that, um
, that we needed to write a book.
And so we did, and, and we, we,we wrote it through Harper
(25:13):
Collins, which was such an honor, um, one of the biggest
publishing houses in the world,um, and so we spent our time her
last days while she was stillalive.
We were trying to meet thesedeadlines, and the last couple
of chapters were written livewhile she was dying, and so
(25:36):
there's no kind of surpriseending there.
We all know that's what all ofus are going to do, right, and
so we wrote this book.
We went on a 15-city book tour.
It ended up getting publishedin 10 languages around the world
and was really quite successful.
And so then the next questionwas what do we do now?
(26:02):
Our last stop on our book tourwas at the Little Public Library
in Northern Michigan, where Leoand Norma checked out books
every week of their last 30years.
They knew them very well, andso we went there and exceeded
the fire codes and had thiswonderful book, talk with a lot
of friends and loved ones, andthen the next day we were
(26:26):
sitting in their driveway in ourmotor home that we had done
this big adventure with, and itand all of it hit us like it was
delayed grief, um, about a yearafter the, um, the well, yeah,
about a year after Norma died.
And we were like, what do we donow?
(26:47):
Yeah, what do we do?
You know, like like there wasso much enthusiasm around our
story and our book and so muchattention and interviews and all
these things, and now it wasall over and we didn't know who
we were.
We didn't know how to act.
We really have had lostourselves, and I've learned
(27:08):
since that that's.
That's what happens withcaregivers, right, no matter
what, whether you have thisfantastical experience or not,
you lose yourself a little bitand sometimes a lot, and so it's
time for some real bigdecisions and some thinking and
(27:28):
some reinvention and things likethat.
And we just couldn't imaginecrawling back in that motorhome
and driving around.
It just didn't make any senseto us at all.
And so I was just being a totalsmart aleck, because Tim was in
a funk and I said why don't wejust escape it all and go live
on a boat somewhere?
(27:49):
And neither of us know how todrive a boat?
We've never.
Tim doesn't know how to swim.
It's not something that is partof our being.
And he was like what?
And I said yeah, we could godown the Mississippi River.
I was just being totally silly,trying to lighten up the mood.
(28:11):
And then I checked in with himlater in the day and he's on a
deep dive on the internetlooking for boats and and we we
actually, when we were withNorma at one point we were at
this little marina and there wasa rendezvous, these certain
little boats and and we werelike, oh, that that looks like
(28:31):
living in an RV, only on thewater.
And so he remembered that brandand so looked them up and the
name of the boat is called aRanger Tug and he found this
article that said Ranger Tugdash the Great Loop.
And we didn't know what thatwas.
But he was very interested andwe learned about America's Great
(28:52):
Loop, which is a 6,000 milescircumnavigation of the U?
S and Canada, eastern U?
S and Canada by waterway and ittakes about a year to to do
this loop and we were like Ithink we could do that.
And and we were.
We decided let's see if we canfind a boat.
So we did.
(29:12):
We sold our motorhome this isthe short version Sold the
motorhome, bought a boat.
Two weeks later we're on thegreat loop, on the 6,000 mile
journey, learning every singleday.
Beverley Glazer (29:22):
You did nothing , nothing, so how did you learn?
Ramie Liddle (29:27):
this when we bought the boat.
Part of the package from buyingthe boat is that we got four
lessons from a captain ateaching captain and I started
getting a little anxious again.
My anxiety was coming in, andTim's been the driver of our
(29:47):
motor home for our entire lives,and so I sometimes felt like a
passenger in my life and I waslike I don't want to feel that
way again, and is that going tobe more of the same if we do
this boat thing?
And I'm just sitting beside himas he's driving the boat, and
so I told him, I said I reallywould like to be the captain,
(30:08):
and he said I love that idea.
And so the four lessons were allhanded to me and I learned the
basics of how to operate thisboat, and then I taught myself
navigation, and then it wasreally like I have a few
(30:31):
advanced degrees and this was nojoke much more difficult than
any graduate school that I'vebeen through, right.
And so every night it was likea study session of OK, we made
it 30 miles, and now what doestomorrow look like?
And it was this series of oneday trips and and we crossed
(30:52):
Lake Michigan, went throughdowntown Chicago and down those
rivers all the way to the Gulfof Mexico.
And, and by the time we got toFlorida, there were other
captains following me, becausethey were like boy, you really
seem to know what you're doing,and I was like okay.
Beverley Glazer (31:08):
So From van life it was, boat life it was it
was boat life, it was, it wasboat life and then the pandemic
hit.
Ramie Liddle (31:17):
Yes, and what happened.
So we lived on the boat, for wedid the loop.
It took us about a year.
So we lived on the boat forthree years total and and we
really, by the end of threeyears, we're feeling quite
confident and and feeling likewe were ready for another
boating adventure.
And so our boat is trailerable,and so we decided to call a
(31:41):
trucking company and have itshipped to the West Coast and we
were going to go back to thesame area where Norma died, in
the San Juan Islands, and thenwe were going to go up the
inside passage to Alaska on ourboat.
We were very excited about that.
A friend of ours was going togo with us.
(32:02):
They bought a boat too, and thefour of us were going to have
this adventure to Alaska.
And right when we were gettingready to put the boat on the
truck is when everything shutdown, including the Canadian
waters, and so even if we gotour boat out there, it wouldn't
have, we couldn't have goneanywhere because we couldn't go
(32:22):
into the Canadian waters.
So at that point we sold ourboat.
Our friends, the same peoplethat that we were at their, at
their place when Norma passed,said why don't you come on out
here and wait for this to passand then see what happens.
And that's when it becamereally clear it's not going to
pass anytime soon.
So we sold our boat at thatpoint and ended up living in
(32:45):
their barn on San Juan Islandfor two years waiting for it to
pass.
Beverley Glazer (32:53):
And now you're not in a barn, but you are in a
ranch.
Ramie Liddle (32:57):
Yeah.
So now full circle back tocaregiving.
A dear friend of ours, who is ahorse breeder in Arizona and
significantly younger than us,got a really nasty cancer
diagnosis about a year and ahalf ago and she's a single mom.
She's we call her badass.
She's just amazing what shedoes and how she works with
(33:19):
these animals.
And that knocked her down andwe were coming back around to
pay a visit there for a coupleweeks and realized that she
needed help and her, her ranchwas really in in disrepair and
there was just way too much thatthat that needed to be done.
(33:42):
That she certainly couldn't doand she had some support for
some from some other friends.
But we were like, you know, wedon't have an agenda right now,
why don't we just stay?
And so we decided to stay hereand become ranch hands, and so
that you know, caregiving looksdifferent sometimes.
Right, it's not always amedical thing, it's how can you
(34:05):
support your loved one inwhatever aspect that they need?
Like she had the medicalsupport, she had the familial
support, but she didn't havesomeone that was there, you know
, training her horses andshoveling the stalls and just
making sure that the day-to-dayoperations mending fences, all
(34:26):
that stuff.
And so we were like well, wecan learn how to do that if we
can learn how to do all theseother things.
And so we've been here helpingwith the ranch, and this week a
new foal was born, which was abig first experience for me too,
so that was wonderful.
Beverley Glazer (34:41):
Wow yeah, how has caregiving shaped your views
on aging, Ramie?
Ramie Liddle (34:49):
You know we're all going there and I remember
looking at Norma at one point,at you know we're all going
there.
And I remember looking at Normaat one point at you know, 90,
91 years old, and and looking atall the creases and wrinkles in
her face and thinking, oh myGod, she is so beautiful.
And that was a huge shift forme.
You know I'm in my fifties atthe time and thinking, oh, you
(35:11):
know every little you know youget, you get to that place in
life where you're pickingyourself apart and, oh, I'm
trying to keep those wrinklesand and and the hair and all
that stuff.
And then I was like you knowwhat?
I think the older you get, themore beautiful.
Like there's, there's thiswisdom that comes into your face
and that this wisdom that comesinto your face and that really
(35:35):
hit me.
You know I let my hair go andI'm embracing this gray thing
now.
I am recognizing the joy thatcan come with aging and I'm also
really seeing that.
You know it's not over.
There's so many things.
Our next thing we're going toleave the ranch here in
(35:56):
September and we're going totravel around the world.
And so we started studying up onthe places that we wanted to go
and realized thattransportation in a big part of
the world is by motorcycle, andif you want to see the cool
things, you need to ride amotorcycle.
And again, no clue how to ridea motorcycle.
And so, at 60 years old, I justgot my motorcycle license and
(36:21):
have been riding my motorcycle.
I bought a motorcycle Tim and Iboth did and we're practicing
that so that we're ready to gowhen we're traveling in these
other countries to be able tolive like the locals and see
what they see.
And so those are all lessons of.
You know, when I was 30, wouldI have ever thought that at 60,
I was going to hop on amotorcycle and, you know, travel
(36:43):
in Thailand or something likethat?
No, and so just that kind ofpermission to continue living as
long as you can and, and withgreat joy, and, and, and, yeah,
yeah for someone,unintentionally, who made a
(37:04):
difference to millions allaround the world.
Beverley Glazer (37:07):
rami, what would you tell our listeners
about stepping up and saying yes?
Ramie Liddle (37:12):
Oh, that's well, you just said it is say yes.
You know there's so many waysto come up with ideas of oh,
that's not, that's not reallypractical, or I could, I could
never do that.
But if it's really in you, ifit's in your heart and your soul
, and or you're just supercurious about something, go for
it.
Go for it.
Oh my gosh about something.
Beverley Glazer (37:38):
Go for it.
Go for it.
Oh my gosh.
There's so much to do out there.
Oh my gosh.
Rami Little is a speaker, aworld traveler and a virtual
book club guest.
She is widely regarded for herstorytelling authenticity and
insight into caregiving and whatmatters at the end of life.
Rami's adventures have touchedthe hearts of millions.
In her 50s, she learned tocaptain a boat and took off on a
(38:03):
10,000-mile journey, and now,at 60, she bought a motorcycle
and she's planning her nextgrand adventure in Southeast
Asia and traveling the world.
Here's some takeaways from thisepisode Saying yes can change
your world.
Caregiving can be a burden, butit can also be a gift, and
(38:26):
you're never too old to reinventyourself and live the life of
your dreams.
If you've been relating to thisepisode, here are a few things
that you could do for yourselfright now.
Be courageous in micro moments.
Speak up, take the wheel, askfor help and say yes to one
(38:47):
small thing today, even if itscares you.
Thing today, even if it scaresyou.
If you've been relating to thisepisode and want to hear more
about Rami Little's journey withher incredible mother-in-law,
ms Norma, and Tim and we didn'tmention her as therapy dog Ringo
.
Check out episode 21 of Agingwith Purpose and Passion, and if
(39:14):
you love podcasts of olderwomen, you may also enjoy Older
Women and Friends withaward-winning host Jane Leder.
Jane takes a deep dive into thejoys and challenges of being
older, older Women and Friends,sets the record straight,
(39:36):
dispels the myth and exploresthe contribution and wisdom that
women are anxious to share.
That link will be in the shownotes here and so, rami, where
can people learn about you andNorma and, of course, ringo and
all of your amazing adventures?
Ramie Liddle (39:49):
I need to say one thing about Ringo.
At end of his life he was he at12.
He decided to be a formalhospice therapy dog, and so that
was when we were on our boat.
We would go from hospice tohospice and Ringo would would be
the therapy dog there.
So we miss him dearly, but youcan learn more at, of course,
(40:11):
the Facebook page at DrivingMiss Norma and MissNorma.
com are the best places to findus.
Beverley Glazer (40:19):
Yeah, all of Ramie's links, missnorma.
com and everything about her ison that website, and it will
also be on ReinventImpossiblecom.
And so, my friends, what's nextfor you?
Are you just going through themotions or are you living a life
that you truly love?
Get my free guide to go fromstuck to unstoppable, and that's
(40:41):
also in the show notes too.
You can connect with me,beverly Glazer, on all social
media platforms and in mypositive group of women on
Facebook, women Over 50 Rock,and thank you for listening.
Have you enjoyed thisconversation?
Please subscribe and help usspread the word by dropping a
review, sending it to a friend,and remember you only have one
(41:06):
life, so live it with purposeand passion, and passion.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Thank you for joining us.
You can connect with Bev on herwebsite, reinventimpossible.
com and, while you're there,join our newsletter subscribe so
you don't miss an episode.
Until next time, keep agingwith purpose and passion and
celebrate life.
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