September 3, 2025 • 25 mins
Your brain is naturally wired for joy — stress is simply blocking the signal. This insight forms the foundation of Dr. Laurel Mellin's Emotional Brain Training (EBT), a revolutionary approach grounded in neuroscience of resilience and proven tools for healing after trauma.
Your brain is wired for joy — stress just blocks the signal. That’s the foundation of Emotional Brain Training (EBT), a neuroscience-based method for stress relief, trauma healing, and emotional resilience created by Dr. Laurel Mellin.
With 40 years at UCSF, Dr. Mellin developed practical tools to rewire the brain for joy, strengthen mental health, and support midlife reinvention. Her research shows there are five levels of stress in the brain, each requiring a specific emotional resilience tool. By matching the right tool to your stress level, you can shift from survival to joy — naturally, without medication.
Dr. Mellin reframes trauma as “pre-joy” — not permanent damage, but a doorway to wisdom, compassion, and growth. Whether you’re healing after trauma, managing relationships, or rebuilding in midlife, EBT offers proven strategies to reset stress circuits and reclaim joy.
Through her personal stories — from professional setbacks to finding love later in life — Dr. Mellin demonstrates that joy isn’t random. Joy is a brain skill you can practice, strengthen, and carry with you for life.
🎧 Ready to reclaim your natural state of joy? Listen and begin your own journey with Emotional Brain Training.
Resources & Links -
For similar episodes on discovering joy, check out episodes 116 and 139 of Aging with Purpose and Passion.
And if you're a caregiver navigating the challenges of caring for a loved one with dementia, I highly recommend that you listen to Fading Memories. This is a podcast that will give you insights and guidance on communicating, managing stress, navigating grief and loss and prioritizing the wellbeing of both caregivers and those they love.
Dr. Laurel Mellin – Founder of Emotional Brain Training (EBT)
📧 Email: laurel@ebt.org
📘 Facebook
📸 Instagram
💼 LinkedIn
Beverley Glazer – Transformation Coach & Host of Aging with Purpose and Passion
📧 Email: Bev@reinventImpossible.com
🌐 Website
💼 LinkedIn
📘 Facebook
👥 Women Over 50 Rock Group
📸 Instagram
🎁 BONUS: Take your first step to clarity, courage and momentum. Your free checklist: → From Stuck to Unstoppable – is here.
https://reinvent-impossible.aweb.page/from-stuck-to-unstoppable
Have feedback or a powerful story that's worth telling? Contact us at info@Reinventimpossible.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to Aging with Purpose and Passion, the
podcast designed to inspire yourgreatness and thrive through
life.
Get ready to conquer your fears.
Here's your hostpsychotherapist, coach and
empowerment expert, BeverlyGlazer.
Beverley Glazer (00:38):
What if your brain was wired for joy but
stress was blocking the signal?
Welcome to Aging with Purposeand Passion, the podcast for
women in midlife and beyond wholive on their own terms.
Each week, you'll hear powerfulconversations, challenging
stories and get practical toolsto help you ignite your own fire
.
I'm Beverley Glazer, areinvention catalyst for women
who are ready to raise the barin their own life, and you can
(01:01):
find me on reinventimpossiblecom.
Dr Laurel Mellin is a healthpsychologist and New York Times
bestselling author.
During the 40 years as aprofessor of medicine at the
University of California, shedeveloped emotional brain
training.
That's EBT rewiring trauma,circuits of joy and purpose.
(01:26):
Dr Laurel Millen trains healthprofessionals in EBT, conducts
research in EBT and uses it inher private practice.
In this episode, she'll revealthe tools to rewire your brain
and reclaim your natural stateof joy.
So keep listening.
(01:47):
Welcome, laurel.
Dr. Laurel Mellin (01:50):
What a joy to be here.
Beverley, Thanks for invitingme.
Beverley Glazer (01:54):
Laurel, your father's struggle with diabetes
had a huge impact on you.
Take us back to that time.
Dr. Laurel Mellin (02:03):
Well, my father.
I was very much in love with myfather.
We were very much alikegenetically.
He really understood me, hereally connected with me and he
had this terrible problem withdiabetes.
It was extremely what we calledbrittle, so he would end up on
the floor at times and I wouldneed to bring him a glass of
(02:24):
orange juice to get him up, andI saw him suffer so much that I
wanted to help.
I mean, I wanted to help him.
My mother was actually depressedand I was sort of the good girl
and the one that was comingforward with lots of good ideas
and I really got hooked at avery young age in stopping
(02:48):
suffering.
I saw my father suffer and Iwanted to stop that and little
did.
I know that suffering isactually part of life.
It's those moments of sufferingand what we do with them that
define who we really are.
But I became a nutritionistbefore I realized it really
(03:09):
wasn't about nutrition.
Nutrition is important but it'sreally biochemical that
effectively, if you're in stress, you're going to be having one
addiction or another, onechronic disease or another and
mental health problems.
And I switched over tobeginning to look at the stress
response and how we could rewireit to create joy.
Beverley Glazer (03:30):
Right, right.
But it led you from that girlwho was taking care of her dad
to that girl at 21 who gotmarried really early and began
to study nutrition.
And so what was going?
During those days you weretrying to help your dad.
(03:50):
I'm sure you were interested innutrition.
I mean, I got into mentalhealth for pretty well the same
reason.
There was schizophrenia in myfamily.
I was curious about that.
You know like we all come fromsomewhere.
So you went and seriouslystudied nutrition.
Dr. Laurel Mellin (04:08):
I did, in part because I had my own eating
disorder.
I was really addicted to sugar.
I was also addicted to bodysize.
I judged my body for not beingperfect, so I had multiple
sources of addiction related tofood.
And because of that I wascurious, because the current
(04:31):
methods simply were not working.
And so I began, because I wasfortunate enough to have a
position at the university and Iwas in nutrition at the time,
even though I knew I was goingto I didn't know at the time I
was going to go into healthpsychology, but I knew it wasn't
working.
And so I began to look into themedical literature and
(04:52):
discovered that a little ladynamed Hilda Brooke, in 1940, who
was probably 90 pounds, soppingwet, and she's this little bit
of a woman who, at BaylorCollege of Medicine, started
doing research that showed thatthe root cause of overeating was
actually a disconnectionemotionally in the family.
And what that said to me iswell, that's not a problem,
(05:16):
because essentially I'll teachemotional tools to families and
see what happens.
And what happened was somethingbeyond my wildest dreams, which
is they actually changed.
You know those of us inresearch we try different things
, we build them on the science,but most things don't work.
But all of a sudden, thesesimple emotional tools that
(05:38):
became emotional brain trainingwere changing not only the
children's habits and their mood, but changing the family system
.
So people were emotionallyconnecting with others and
really getting relief from a lotof chronic diseases and mental
health problems.
The issue was I had no idea whyit was working.
(05:59):
But the good news was this onewoman you know how one person
can change your life.
But the good news was this onewoman, you know how one person
can change your life.
This mother came up to me andsaid my daughter was binging on
food, was stealing money from mypurse so that she could get
that food that she needed, andnow, since she's been using
these emotional tools, she justwants to go out and play.
(06:20):
Whatever you did for her, dofor me.
And we began moving EBT to theadult population.
Still at that time I knew Iwould be a bad person if I
didn't do the diligence anddedicate my career to finding
out what was the root cause ofthat person's transformation
from being stressed andmiserable to being connected and
(06:41):
enjoy.
It would take 25 years beforethe research actually showed
what was going on in her brain,but finally it showed.
And what happened at that pointis EBT became available for all
kinds of problems, fromdepression and anxiety and
trauma to addiction andoverweight.
(07:03):
So it took a time, but it wasworth it.
Beverley Glazer (07:07):
Now we do understand about the brain, but
way back then people must havejust rejected all of your ideas.
Dr. Laurel Mellin (07:17):
Well, I was fortunate in some ways in that I
was a woman and at a time whenthe university was really held
accountable for how they weretreating women, and so otherwise
I would have been long gone,because my ideas were not
consistent with this party lineabout changing your behaviors
and taking medications.
(07:37):
But they had to do somethingwith me, so they tolerated me.
They tolerated me, but it wasreally hard because I knew all
of that time that I was notaccepted, that they couldn't
gracefully get rid of me andthey could have me be on the
clinical faculty instead of thepaid faculty.
They could move me around, butthey couldn't easily get rid of
(07:59):
me, and so I stayed in thatappointment for more than 40
years one way or the other, butit wasn't pleasant and it wasn't
easy.
It required a tremendous amountof commitment.
What I was committed to is Iknew that I had happened to get
onto something, that these toolswere changing people in ways
that we didn't fully understand,and I believe that being part
(08:22):
of the university would be veryimportant to its eventual
acceptance, and it has been.
Beverley Glazer (08:27):
Sure.
So you're looking to find joyand you're realizing the joy was
something that was neurological, something that we change in
our brain.
It's something that allows usto take care of ourselves better
, eat better, not have theaddictive personality, as they
(08:51):
call it.
But Throughout your life, therewasn't always joy either.
So here you are going to theuniversity, working on this and
yet going through a divorce,taking care of children.
How did you manage your own joyduring that period?
Dr. Laurel Mellin (09:08):
I think there's only really one way to
do it To understand that whenyou feel terrible, when you feel
all is lost, when you feel likethere is no hope, to have
something in the back of yourmind from brain science that
says under stress is joy, ourvery nature is joy.
(09:28):
All of us have these beautifulemotional brains that if we just
emotionally clear the stress,it doesn't listen to thoughts,
emotionally process the stress.
It brings us right back to astate of such connection, such
beautiful, flowing, healingchemicals, that in fact we're
just happy to be alive.
(09:49):
So under stress there is joy.
But also knowing that whenwe're in the worst moments of
stress, the stress response isso powerful that we will feel
like there is no hope.
And that's part of the stressresponse.
And all we need to do is holdon just a little bit and go
(10:10):
through a process that inemotional brain training we call
a transcendence tool.
A transcendence tool and itreally functions in accord with
our very nature, which is to bein joy and to learn from our
adversity.
When, for example, one time Iwas in bed it was midnight I had
(10:31):
just, you know, worked all dayand all night and I was.
Nothing was going well, theresearch was going poorly, our
nonprofit was doing poorly, ourservice nothing was really
working.
And I was in tears, I was justsobbing buckets and I sobbed,
and I sobbed, and I sobbed andthen I connected to the deepest
(10:54):
part of myself and I said I giveup, it's not my way, it's thy
way.
I'm going to open my hand tothe spiritual, I'm going to
appreciate that I'm going to bepart of something that's more
and I'm here to be of service.
And then something shifts andyou can see expansively that we
(11:20):
are part of something muchbeyond ourselves.
And then we do the logicalthing because now we're of
purpose.
And for me I said and I needhelp.
And since that time thattranscendence tool has become
part of EBT so that when yourelease over control experience
(11:42):
being part of something more,and then ask for help, it always
comes.
It either comes within a fewnanoseconds and definitely
within one day.
It just happened for me thisweek.
It just happened for me thisweek.
That is a process in the brain,because we're basically
spiritual creatures and oursurvival is based in clearing
(12:03):
the stress, opening our mind tosomething new so our circuits
can change, and getting back toour natural state of joy and
purpose.
Beverley Glazer (12:13):
I love that you said that, because here you are
a scientist and a lot of peoplewould say joy, that's so
woo-woo.
You know?
I don't think so.
You're now doing academicresearch.
Did anybody say you know drlaurel mellon?
(12:33):
I'm not so sure about her.
Dr. Laurel Mellin (12:36):
Well, more people have said that than I can
even imagine.
I'll tell you two quick stories.
One of them is from ascientific standpoint, antonio
Damasio, who's a very respectedneuroscientist in 2000.
One of the stories is reallyabout neuroscience, which is
(12:59):
there's this wonderful man namedAntonio Damasio, who is a
renowned neuroscientist, and in2003, he wrote in the scientific
literature that it was nolonger advisable to get to a
mediocre, peaceful mood state.
You had to get to joy, becausejoy signals optimal biochemistry
(13:21):
and ultimately, psychology isbiochemical.
It all comes down toelectricity and to chemicals.
So that changed the idea of joyfrom being positive psychology
to having these emotions of joy.
Positive psychology, to havingthese emotions of joy signify
(13:43):
optimal biochemistry, which iswhat we all need.
But the issue is that some ofthe times were worse than others
, and one of the times I mostremember was when I had just
done a series of reallywell-received talks for social
workers nationally and I wasinvited yet again to give
another one.
This one was going to be bigger, this was going to be 800
people, and so during the middleof the night, before the talk
(14:06):
was in the morning, it was onZoom, and I get this experience
in a dream I feel like there'swood all around me and there
something holding me.
And then this voice appears.
And the voice is says um, donot quit.
(14:27):
I thought, do not quit.
I'm about to have one of thegreatest talks of my life.
And then the voice came againand said and be proud of
yourself.
And then the voice came againand said and be proud of
yourself.
So the next morning I wake up,I'm all ready to go in front of
the and going, and someonearrives and says oh we, we
(14:47):
didn't tell you this, but yourprogram has not been accepted
for continuing education, and soeveryone was told that that's
the case and we don't expect 800people.
We'll be lucky to have eight.
So my belief is in that if youstay connected to the deepest
(15:09):
part of ourselves, our veryspiritual core, and ask for help
, that we will be protected andguided both ask for help, that
we will be protected and guidedboth.
Beverley Glazer (15:24):
Well, that definitely was a learning
experience.
Let me ask you, tell me aboutthat five-point EBT system.
Dr. Laurel Mellin (15:35):
Okay, so what's so surprising is that the
more I learned aboutneuroscience and the more the
science became more robust, thesimpler emotional brain training
became.
It became so simple that Istill, to this day, am
astonished, because there areonly five levels of stress in
the brain.
Low stress the top of the brainis in charge, and all your
(15:58):
happy memories, and then it goesdownhill from there all the way
to two, feeling good, and thenat three, four and five, you're
in trouble.
At five, the reptilian brain'sin charge and you're
biochemically careening out ofcontrol.
So that means to completelycontrol your biochemistry,
naturally without medications.
You only need five skills.
(16:19):
You need to know what stressnumber you're in and then use
the corresponding emotionalprocessing tools.
For that it's on an app.
Anyone can use it.
But the real beauty is that, nomatter which of those five
tools you use, the brain itself,with its beautiful resiliency
pathways, will take you back tojoy.
Beverley Glazer (16:43):
That was so easy, and today we have an app
and so we can monitor this likewe could monitor everything else
.
So the brain responds and we goback to joy, and you found joy
in your life on matchcom.
Dr. Laurel Mellin (17:02):
Oh my gosh, I had been alone for 12 years and
you know I love my work.
I mean, I have to tell you Ilove my work.
I get so much joy from it.
And I started to think about mychildren because they were
grand ground and I thought well,you know what's going on with
them?
They think they have thismother at home working herself,
(17:22):
silly, and you know what?
I don't want to be that person.
I don't want to be that person.
I don't know if I want to have arelationship again, but I do
know that I'm not going to hidecommitment to myself that every
Tuesday night I would scroungeout somebody from matchcom who
would be willing to go and meetme for a cup of coffee or a
(17:43):
drink or something like that.
And what happened in thatmoment?
Is I committed to Tuesdaynights after I saw my last
patient, to meeting up with thisperson.
And on the fourth time that Idid this, the fourth date
meeting up with this person andon the fourth time that I did
this, the fourth date, I met thelove of my life.
(18:03):
And I looked at him.
He looked at me.
He started opening up and thisis not a person that opens up a
lot.
He starts telling me his lifestory.
I started feeling he remindedme a lot of my father, who I was
a caretaker of at the time, andI just felt so safe with him
and so loved by him.
And the rest is history.
(18:23):
However, I know for sure if Ididn't have the EBT tools, I
would have messed it up.
And the reason is, likeeveryone, he's got his dark side
.
I've got my dark side, but Ilearned to get to joy and to
make the decision not to judge,to set really good boundaries
and to allow myself to love moredeeply, and that changed my
(18:47):
life.
It changed my children's lifebecause they saw me happily
coupled.
Beverley Glazer (19:04):
I know for sure that I've learned more in that
relationship because of my lovefor him and his love for me and
felt more of the spiritualconnection than I've ever felt
before.
Beautiful.
What can you tell someone,though, that's listening and
says I don't know, I've sufferedtrauma, I have stress and
you're telling me to find joyfrom an act?
What could you tell someonethat's listening that's
skeptical?
Dr. Laurel Mellin (19:22):
On the day you were born you had all the
inherent strength, goodness andwisdom you would ever need to
solve any problem and clear anytrauma.
The trauma itself, even thoughwe wouldn't look for it, is
essentially pre-joy.
The people you feel reallysorry for are people who have
led the charmed life.
They will never know the depthof compassion and empathy that
(19:47):
you will know.
All you have to do is just fora moment appreciate that your
biology is set up for joy.
Science shows that you justneed to step over that thinking
brain barrier that we get intothinking too much.
Get into that beautifulemotional brain with those
wonderful resiliency pathwaysand go slow and just, step by
(20:14):
step, create tiny minutes of joy, tiny minutes of joy that give
you all those healing chemicalsand begin to encroach on the
trauma.
You start with EBT by collectingjoy points.
It just takes one minute andthere's seven ways to do it.
And then you get bored withthat and you say I want to
spiral up out of stress throughmy emotional pathways.
(20:36):
And then you do that.
And then you get bored withthat and you say I want to go
into that trauma and actuallykind of break it up a little bit
.
It's just emotional clutter andyou rewire circuits until your
brain is happily going back tojoy automatically, still going
through all five brain states,because we need that stress.
It's what disrupts whatevercircuits are there and makes us
(20:59):
happier and healthier and morejoyful.
But you don't stay stuck in itanymore because your brain has
established a new habit.
The brain changes withexperience.
Just start wherever you are andkeep it fun, because if it's
not fun, the brain won't do itand it's not EBT.
Beverley Glazer (21:16):
Thank you.
Thank you, laurel.
Dr Laurel Mellin is a healthpsychologist and New York Times
bestselling author.
During her 40 years as aprofessor of medicine at the
University of California, shedeveloped emotional brain
training, ebt rewiring traumainto the circuits of joy and
(21:39):
purpose.
She trains health professionalsin EBT, conducts research in
EBT and has a private practicein the method.
Here are a few takeaways fromthis episode.
Your brain is wired for joy.
Stress is just blocking thepathways.
Joy is not random.
(22:00):
It's a brain skill that you canpractice and you can strengthen
and you can rewire those oldtrauma circuits.
They don't need to define yourfuture.
If you've been relating to thisepisode, here are a few quick
actions that you could do rightnow.
Take one minute, one minutepause and breathe deeply, and
(22:21):
this may shift your awareness.
Find one micro joy some musicor a scent or a memory and savor
it fully.
And practice small, consistent,daily resets to build a
resilient brain.
For a previous episode ondiscovering joy, check out
(22:43):
episodes 116 and 139 of Agingwith Purpose and Passion.
And if you're navigating thecomplex journey of caring for a
loved one with dementia, fadingMemories is a podcast that
offers clear, compassionateguidance on everything from
communication to managing stressand coping with grief, and that
(23:04):
link will be in the show notesbelow.
And so, laurel, where canpeople find you and learn more
about you and learn abouteverything, all the works that
you do and the apps andeverything?
Please share your links.
Dr. Laurel Mellin (23:19):
There is one central place to visit, which is
EBT like emotional braintraining, also like food stamps
ebtorg and there it's a hubinternationally for getting the
app, which is essential becausethere's 23 different steps in
this pathway and you need to beguided through it.
(23:40):
But also community love support, coaching groups, because it
has to stay fun and exciting, soit would be EBT.
There are books, butessentially the app is really at
our website because we onlyrelease it when you have the
support to make it reallyeffective, so it would be ebtorg
(24:01):
terrific.
Beverley Glazer (24:03):
That link dr laurel's link is in the show
notes as well, and it's going tobe on my site too.
That's reinventedpossiblecom.
And so, my friends, what's nextfor you?
Are you just going through themotions or are you living the
life that you truly love?
Get my free guide to go fromstuck to unstoppable, and that's
(24:24):
also in the show notes, too.
You can connect with me,Beverley Glazer, on all social
media platforms and in mypositive group of women on
Facebook.
That's #Women Over 50 Rock.
And thank you for listening.
Have you enjoyed thisconversation?
Please subscribe.
Help us spread the word bydropping a review and sending it
(24:45):
to a friend, and remember youonly have one life, so live it
with purpose and passion.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Thank you for joining us.
You can connect with Bev on herwebsite, reinventimpossiblecom
and, while you're there, joinour newsletter Subscribe so you
don't miss an episode.
Until next time, keep agingwith purpose and passion and
celebrate life.
Welcome to Aging with Purpose and Passion, the
podcast designed to inspire yourgreatness and thrive through
life.
Get ready to conquer your fears.
Here's your hostpsychotherapist, coach and
empowerment expert, BeverlyGlazer.
Beverley Glazer (00:38):
What if your brain was wired for joy but
stress was blocking the signal?
Welcome to Aging with Purposeand Passion, the podcast for
women in midlife and beyond wholive on their own terms.
Each week, you'll hear powerfulconversations, challenging
stories and get practical toolsto help you ignite your own fire
.
I'm Beverley Glazer, areinvention catalyst for women
who are ready to raise the barin their own life, and you can
(01:01):
find me on reinventimpossiblecom.
Dr Laurel Mellin is a healthpsychologist and New York Times
bestselling author.
During the 40 years as aprofessor of medicine at the
University of California, shedeveloped emotional brain
training.
That's EBT rewiring trauma,circuits of joy and purpose.
(01:26):
Dr Laurel Millen trains healthprofessionals in EBT, conducts
research in EBT and uses it inher private practice.
In this episode, she'll revealthe tools to rewire your brain
and reclaim your natural stateof joy.
So keep listening.
(01:47):
Welcome, laurel.
Dr. Laurel Mellin (01:50):
What a joy to be here.
Beverley, Thanks for invitingme.
Beverley Glazer (01:54):
Laurel, your father's struggle with diabetes
had a huge impact on you.
Take us back to that time.
Dr. Laurel Mellin (02:03):
Well, my father.
I was very much in love with myfather.
We were very much alikegenetically.
He really understood me, hereally connected with me and he
had this terrible problem withdiabetes.
It was extremely what we calledbrittle, so he would end up on
the floor at times and I wouldneed to bring him a glass of
(02:24):
orange juice to get him up, andI saw him suffer so much that I
wanted to help.
I mean, I wanted to help him.
My mother was actually depressedand I was sort of the good girl
and the one that was comingforward with lots of good ideas
and I really got hooked at avery young age in stopping
(02:48):
suffering.
I saw my father suffer and Iwanted to stop that and little
did.
I know that suffering isactually part of life.
It's those moments of sufferingand what we do with them that
define who we really are.
But I became a nutritionistbefore I realized it really
(03:09):
wasn't about nutrition.
Nutrition is important but it'sreally biochemical that
effectively, if you're in stress, you're going to be having one
addiction or another, onechronic disease or another and
mental health problems.
And I switched over tobeginning to look at the stress
response and how we could rewireit to create joy.
Beverley Glazer (03:30):
Right, right.
But it led you from that girlwho was taking care of her dad
to that girl at 21 who gotmarried really early and began
to study nutrition.
And so what was going?
During those days you weretrying to help your dad.
(03:50):
I'm sure you were interested innutrition.
I mean, I got into mentalhealth for pretty well the same
reason.
There was schizophrenia in myfamily.
I was curious about that.
You know like we all come fromsomewhere.
So you went and seriouslystudied nutrition.
Dr. Laurel Mellin (04:08):
I did, in part because I had my own eating
disorder.
I was really addicted to sugar.
I was also addicted to bodysize.
I judged my body for not beingperfect, so I had multiple
sources of addiction related tofood.
And because of that I wascurious, because the current
(04:31):
methods simply were not working.
And so I began, because I wasfortunate enough to have a
position at the university and Iwas in nutrition at the time,
even though I knew I was goingto I didn't know at the time I
was going to go into healthpsychology, but I knew it wasn't
working.
And so I began to look into themedical literature and
(04:52):
discovered that a little ladynamed Hilda Brooke, in 1940, who
was probably 90 pounds, soppingwet, and she's this little bit
of a woman who, at BaylorCollege of Medicine, started
doing research that showed thatthe root cause of overeating was
actually a disconnectionemotionally in the family.
And what that said to me iswell, that's not a problem,
(05:16):
because essentially I'll teachemotional tools to families and
see what happens.
And what happened was somethingbeyond my wildest dreams, which
is they actually changed.
You know those of us inresearch we try different things
, we build them on the science,but most things don't work.
But all of a sudden, thesesimple emotional tools that
(05:38):
became emotional brain trainingwere changing not only the
children's habits and their mood, but changing the family system
.
So people were emotionallyconnecting with others and
really getting relief from a lotof chronic diseases and mental
health problems.
The issue was I had no idea whyit was working.
(05:59):
But the good news was this onewoman you know how one person
can change your life.
But the good news was this onewoman, you know how one person
can change your life.
This mother came up to me andsaid my daughter was binging on
food, was stealing money from mypurse so that she could get
that food that she needed, andnow, since she's been using
these emotional tools, she justwants to go out and play.
(06:20):
Whatever you did for her, dofor me.
And we began moving EBT to theadult population.
Still at that time I knew Iwould be a bad person if I
didn't do the diligence anddedicate my career to finding
out what was the root cause ofthat person's transformation
from being stressed andmiserable to being connected and
(06:41):
enjoy.
It would take 25 years beforethe research actually showed
what was going on in her brain,but finally it showed.
And what happened at that pointis EBT became available for all
kinds of problems, fromdepression and anxiety and
trauma to addiction andoverweight.
(07:03):
So it took a time, but it wasworth it.
Beverley Glazer (07:07):
Now we do understand about the brain, but
way back then people must havejust rejected all of your ideas.
Dr. Laurel Mellin (07:17):
Well, I was fortunate in some ways in that I
was a woman and at a time whenthe university was really held
accountable for how they weretreating women, and so otherwise
I would have been long gone,because my ideas were not
consistent with this party lineabout changing your behaviors
and taking medications.
(07:37):
But they had to do somethingwith me, so they tolerated me.
They tolerated me, but it wasreally hard because I knew all
of that time that I was notaccepted, that they couldn't
gracefully get rid of me andthey could have me be on the
clinical faculty instead of thepaid faculty.
They could move me around, butthey couldn't easily get rid of
(07:59):
me, and so I stayed in thatappointment for more than 40
years one way or the other, butit wasn't pleasant and it wasn't
easy.
It required a tremendous amountof commitment.
What I was committed to is Iknew that I had happened to get
onto something, that these toolswere changing people in ways
that we didn't fully understand,and I believe that being part
(08:22):
of the university would be veryimportant to its eventual
acceptance, and it has been.
Beverley Glazer (08:27):
Sure.
So you're looking to find joyand you're realizing the joy was
something that was neurological, something that we change in
our brain.
It's something that allows usto take care of ourselves better
, eat better, not have theaddictive personality, as they
(08:51):
call it.
But Throughout your life, therewasn't always joy either.
So here you are going to theuniversity, working on this and
yet going through a divorce,taking care of children.
How did you manage your own joyduring that period?
Dr. Laurel Mellin (09:08):
I think there's only really one way to
do it To understand that whenyou feel terrible, when you feel
all is lost, when you feel likethere is no hope, to have
something in the back of yourmind from brain science that
says under stress is joy, ourvery nature is joy.
(09:28):
All of us have these beautifulemotional brains that if we just
emotionally clear the stress,it doesn't listen to thoughts,
emotionally process the stress.
It brings us right back to astate of such connection, such
beautiful, flowing, healingchemicals, that in fact we're
just happy to be alive.
(09:49):
So under stress there is joy.
But also knowing that whenwe're in the worst moments of
stress, the stress response isso powerful that we will feel
like there is no hope.
And that's part of the stressresponse.
And all we need to do is holdon just a little bit and go
(10:10):
through a process that inemotional brain training we call
a transcendence tool.
A transcendence tool and itreally functions in accord with
our very nature, which is to bein joy and to learn from our
adversity.
When, for example, one time Iwas in bed it was midnight I had
(10:31):
just, you know, worked all dayand all night and I was.
Nothing was going well, theresearch was going poorly, our
nonprofit was doing poorly, ourservice nothing was really
working.
And I was in tears, I was justsobbing buckets and I sobbed,
and I sobbed, and I sobbed andthen I connected to the deepest
(10:54):
part of myself and I said I giveup, it's not my way, it's thy
way.
I'm going to open my hand tothe spiritual, I'm going to
appreciate that I'm going to bepart of something that's more
and I'm here to be of service.
And then something shifts andyou can see expansively that we
(11:20):
are part of something muchbeyond ourselves.
And then we do the logicalthing because now we're of
purpose.
And for me I said and I needhelp.
And since that time thattranscendence tool has become
part of EBT so that when yourelease over control experience
(11:42):
being part of something more,and then ask for help, it always
comes.
It either comes within a fewnanoseconds and definitely
within one day.
It just happened for me thisweek.
It just happened for me thisweek.
That is a process in the brain,because we're basically
spiritual creatures and oursurvival is based in clearing
(12:03):
the stress, opening our mind tosomething new so our circuits
can change, and getting back toour natural state of joy and
purpose.
Beverley Glazer (12:13):
I love that you said that, because here you are
a scientist and a lot of peoplewould say joy, that's so
woo-woo.
You know?
I don't think so.
You're now doing academicresearch.
Did anybody say you know drlaurel mellon?
(12:33):
I'm not so sure about her.
Dr. Laurel Mellin (12:36):
Well, more people have said that than I can
even imagine.
I'll tell you two quick stories.
One of them is from ascientific standpoint, antonio
Damasio, who's a very respectedneuroscientist in 2000.
One of the stories is reallyabout neuroscience, which is
(12:59):
there's this wonderful man namedAntonio Damasio, who is a
renowned neuroscientist, and in2003, he wrote in the scientific
literature that it was nolonger advisable to get to a
mediocre, peaceful mood state.
You had to get to joy, becausejoy signals optimal biochemistry
(13:21):
and ultimately, psychology isbiochemical.
It all comes down toelectricity and to chemicals.
So that changed the idea of joyfrom being positive psychology
to having these emotions of joy.
Positive psychology, to havingthese emotions of joy signify
(13:43):
optimal biochemistry, which iswhat we all need.
But the issue is that some ofthe times were worse than others
, and one of the times I mostremember was when I had just
done a series of reallywell-received talks for social
workers nationally and I wasinvited yet again to give
another one.
This one was going to be bigger, this was going to be 800
people, and so during the middleof the night, before the talk
(14:06):
was in the morning, it was onZoom, and I get this experience
in a dream I feel like there'swood all around me and there
something holding me.
And then this voice appears.
And the voice is says um, donot quit.
(14:27):
I thought, do not quit.
I'm about to have one of thegreatest talks of my life.
And then the voice came againand said and be proud of
yourself.
And then the voice came againand said and be proud of
yourself.
So the next morning I wake up,I'm all ready to go in front of
the and going, and someonearrives and says oh we, we
(14:47):
didn't tell you this, but yourprogram has not been accepted
for continuing education, and soeveryone was told that that's
the case and we don't expect 800people.
We'll be lucky to have eight.
So my belief is in that if youstay connected to the deepest
(15:09):
part of ourselves, our veryspiritual core, and ask for help
, that we will be protected andguided both ask for help, that
we will be protected and guidedboth.
Beverley Glazer (15:24):
Well, that definitely was a learning
experience.
Let me ask you, tell me aboutthat five-point EBT system.
Dr. Laurel Mellin (15:35):
Okay, so what's so surprising is that the
more I learned aboutneuroscience and the more the
science became more robust, thesimpler emotional brain training
became.
It became so simple that Istill, to this day, am
astonished, because there areonly five levels of stress in
the brain.
Low stress the top of the brainis in charge, and all your
(15:58):
happy memories, and then it goesdownhill from there all the way
to two, feeling good, and thenat three, four and five, you're
in trouble.
At five, the reptilian brain'sin charge and you're
biochemically careening out ofcontrol.
So that means to completelycontrol your biochemistry,
naturally without medications.
You only need five skills.
(16:19):
You need to know what stressnumber you're in and then use
the corresponding emotionalprocessing tools.
For that it's on an app.
Anyone can use it.
But the real beauty is that, nomatter which of those five
tools you use, the brain itself,with its beautiful resiliency
pathways, will take you back tojoy.
Beverley Glazer (16:43):
That was so easy, and today we have an app
and so we can monitor this likewe could monitor everything else
.
So the brain responds and we goback to joy, and you found joy
in your life on matchcom.
Dr. Laurel Mellin (17:02):
Oh my gosh, I had been alone for 12 years and
you know I love my work.
I mean, I have to tell you Ilove my work.
I get so much joy from it.
And I started to think about mychildren because they were
grand ground and I thought well,you know what's going on with
them?
They think they have thismother at home working herself,
(17:22):
silly, and you know what?
I don't want to be that person.
I don't want to be that person.
I don't know if I want to have arelationship again, but I do
know that I'm not going to hidecommitment to myself that every
Tuesday night I would scroungeout somebody from matchcom who
would be willing to go and meetme for a cup of coffee or a
(17:43):
drink or something like that.
And what happened in thatmoment?
Is I committed to Tuesdaynights after I saw my last
patient, to meeting up with thisperson.
And on the fourth time that Idid this, the fourth date
meeting up with this person andon the fourth time that I did
this, the fourth date, I met thelove of my life.
(18:03):
And I looked at him.
He looked at me.
He started opening up and thisis not a person that opens up a
lot.
He starts telling me his lifestory.
I started feeling he remindedme a lot of my father, who I was
a caretaker of at the time, andI just felt so safe with him
and so loved by him.
And the rest is history.
(18:23):
However, I know for sure if Ididn't have the EBT tools, I
would have messed it up.
And the reason is, likeeveryone, he's got his dark side
.
I've got my dark side, but Ilearned to get to joy and to
make the decision not to judge,to set really good boundaries
and to allow myself to love moredeeply, and that changed my
(18:47):
life.
It changed my children's lifebecause they saw me happily
coupled.
Beverley Glazer (19:04):
I know for sure that I've learned more in that
relationship because of my lovefor him and his love for me and
felt more of the spiritualconnection than I've ever felt
before.
Beautiful.
What can you tell someone,though, that's listening and
says I don't know, I've sufferedtrauma, I have stress and
you're telling me to find joyfrom an act?
What could you tell someonethat's listening that's
skeptical?
Dr. Laurel Mellin (19:22):
On the day you were born you had all the
inherent strength, goodness andwisdom you would ever need to
solve any problem and clear anytrauma.
The trauma itself, even thoughwe wouldn't look for it, is
essentially pre-joy.
The people you feel reallysorry for are people who have
led the charmed life.
They will never know the depthof compassion and empathy that
(19:47):
you will know.
All you have to do is just fora moment appreciate that your
biology is set up for joy.
Science shows that you justneed to step over that thinking
brain barrier that we get intothinking too much.
Get into that beautifulemotional brain with those
wonderful resiliency pathwaysand go slow and just, step by
(20:14):
step, create tiny minutes of joy, tiny minutes of joy that give
you all those healing chemicalsand begin to encroach on the
trauma.
You start with EBT by collectingjoy points.
It just takes one minute andthere's seven ways to do it.
And then you get bored withthat and you say I want to
spiral up out of stress throughmy emotional pathways.
(20:36):
And then you do that.
And then you get bored withthat and you say I want to go
into that trauma and actuallykind of break it up a little bit
.
It's just emotional clutter andyou rewire circuits until your
brain is happily going back tojoy automatically, still going
through all five brain states,because we need that stress.
It's what disrupts whatevercircuits are there and makes us
(20:59):
happier and healthier and morejoyful.
But you don't stay stuck in itanymore because your brain has
established a new habit.
The brain changes withexperience.
Just start wherever you are andkeep it fun, because if it's
not fun, the brain won't do itand it's not EBT.
Beverley Glazer (21:16):
Thank you.
Thank you, laurel.
Dr Laurel Mellin is a healthpsychologist and New York Times
bestselling author.
During her 40 years as aprofessor of medicine at the
University of California, shedeveloped emotional brain
training, ebt rewiring traumainto the circuits of joy and
(21:39):
purpose.
She trains health professionalsin EBT, conducts research in
EBT and has a private practicein the method.
Here are a few takeaways fromthis episode.
Your brain is wired for joy.
Stress is just blocking thepathways.
Joy is not random.
(22:00):
It's a brain skill that you canpractice and you can strengthen
and you can rewire those oldtrauma circuits.
They don't need to define yourfuture.
If you've been relating to thisepisode, here are a few quick
actions that you could do rightnow.
Take one minute, one minutepause and breathe deeply, and
(22:21):
this may shift your awareness.
Find one micro joy some musicor a scent or a memory and savor
it fully.
And practice small, consistent,daily resets to build a
resilient brain.
For a previous episode ondiscovering joy, check out
(22:43):
episodes 116 and 139 of Agingwith Purpose and Passion.
And if you're navigating thecomplex journey of caring for a
loved one with dementia, fadingMemories is a podcast that
offers clear, compassionateguidance on everything from
communication to managing stressand coping with grief, and that
(23:04):
link will be in the show notesbelow.
And so, laurel, where canpeople find you and learn more
about you and learn abouteverything, all the works that
you do and the apps andeverything?
Please share your links.
Dr. Laurel Mellin (23:19):
There is one central place to visit, which is
EBT like emotional braintraining, also like food stamps
ebtorg and there it's a hubinternationally for getting the
app, which is essential becausethere's 23 different steps in
this pathway and you need to beguided through it.
(23:40):
But also community love support, coaching groups, because it
has to stay fun and exciting, soit would be EBT.
There are books, butessentially the app is really at
our website because we onlyrelease it when you have the
support to make it reallyeffective, so it would be ebtorg
(24:01):
terrific.
Beverley Glazer (24:03):
That link dr laurel's link is in the show
notes as well, and it's going tobe on my site too.
That's reinventedpossiblecom.
And so, my friends, what's nextfor you?
Are you just going through themotions or are you living the
life that you truly love?
Get my free guide to go fromstuck to unstoppable, and that's
(24:24):
also in the show notes, too.
You can connect with me,Beverley Glazer, on all social
media platforms and in mypositive group of women on
Facebook.
That's #Women Over 50 Rock.
And thank you for listening.
Have you enjoyed thisconversation?
Please subscribe.
Help us spread the word bydropping a review and sending it
(24:45):
to a friend, and remember youonly have one life, so live it
with purpose and passion.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Thank you for joining us.
You can connect with Bev on herwebsite, reinventimpossiblecom
and, while you're there, joinour newsletter Subscribe so you
don't miss an episode.
Until next time, keep agingwith purpose and passion and
celebrate life.
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