November 12, 2025 • 34 mins
What if confidence comes from play, not perfection? Therapist, storyteller, and improv coach Jude Treder-Wolff shares how creativity can rebuild courage, calm anxiety, and spark transformation at any age.
What if the fastest way to feel confident isn’t control, but creativity? In this episode, therapist, storyteller, and improv coach Jude Treder-Wolff reveals how improv therapy, expressive arts therapy and playful daily habits help people break free from perfectionism, quiet fear, and navigate major life transitions with resilience.
Jude takes us from discovering the magic of New York as a kid to her early work in psychiatric hospitals, where she saw how small, consistent creatve actions create real emotional healing. We explore the origins of improv in Chicago settlement houses with Viola Spolin, and how those same structures still teach presence, trust, and courage today.
She shares powerful tools you can use right now: playful storytelling exercises, curiosity-based choices that calm the nervous system, and creativity practices that restore energy during grief, illness, or reinvention in midlife. Jude’s stories, including her “miracle on 57th Street,” show how creativity rewires self-belief and opens new possibilities.
This episode is a guide to aging with purpose and passion: use structure to feel safe, play to feel alive, and small creative steps to create change that lasts.
If this conversation inspires you, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs a creative reset, and leave a review with the smallest “yes” you’ll try this week. Your next scene starts the moment you choose it.
Resources
For a similar stories on aging and creativity, check episode 127 and 154 and The "Women in the Middle®" hosted by life coach Suzy Rosenstein and focuses on helping women in midlife, navigate life changes, set goals, and find happiness.
Jude Treder-Wolff – Therapist, Storyteller & Improv Coach
📧 judetrederwolff@gmail.com
🌐 https://www.lifestage.me
| https://www.judetrederwolff.com
📘 https://www.facebook.com/jude.trederwolff.9
📸 @lifestage_inc
💼 https://www.linkedin.com/in/jude-treder-wolff-294436221/
🎙️ Improv In Real Life (Apple, Spotify, all platforms)
Beverley Glazer – Transformation Coach & Host
📧 Bev@reinventImpossible.com
🌐 https://reinventImpossible.com
💼 https://www.linkedin.com/in/beverleyglazer
📘 https://www.facebook.com/reinventImpossible
👥 Women Over 50 Rock: https://www.facebook.com/groups/womenover50rock
📸 https://www.instagram.com/beverleyglazer_reinvention/
🎁 BONUS: Take your first step to clarity, courage and momentum. Your free checklist: → From Stuck to Unstoppable – is here.
https://reinvent-impossible.aweb.page/from-stuck-to-unstoppable
Have feedback or a powerful story that's worth telling? Contact us at info@Reinventimpossible.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Announcer (00:07):
Welcome to Aging with Purpose and Passion, the
podcast designed to inspire yourgreatness and thrive through
life.
Get ready to conquer yourfears.
Here's your host,psychotherapist, coach, and
empowerment expert, BeverleyGlazer.
Beverley Glazer (00:33):
What if the key to rediscovering yourself was
found in a story.
Welcome to Aging with Purposeand Passion.
I'm Beverley Glazer, atransition coach and catalyst
for women who are ready to raisethe bar in their own lives.
And you can find me onreInventimpossible.com.
Jude Treder Wolf turns messylives into being a kid.
(00:57):
She's a therapist, astoryteller, and an improv coach
who helps people rediscoverconfidence and creativity at any
stage of life.
Jude is a mock story swanwinner and host of the hit show
Mostly True Things.
She performed on DBS, Storiesfor the Stage, Risk, and the
(01:20):
Story Collider.
And through her company LifeStage, she blends psychology,
humor, and storytelling to turnlife's challenges into growth,
connection, and purpose.
Welcome, Jude.
Welcome.
Jude Treder-Wolff (01:36):
Thank you so much.
What a delight to be here.
Beverley Glazer (01:40):
It's wonderful having you.
And this is can be an improv,right?
Jude Treder-Wolff (01:44):
Every conversation is an improv when
you think about it.
It really is.
Beverley Glazer (01:49):
It sure is.
Jude, you grew up in Wisconsin,but always dreamed of the big
city New York.
Why New York?
Jude Treder-Wolff (02:00):
I loved cities when I was, I grew up on
a farm.
And my brothers, I havebrothers that are 10, 12, 14
years older than me from a verylong, you know, one of these
very large farm families thatare basically a generation.
And my older brothers went tocollege in Milwaukee, which was
(02:21):
the New York City of Wisconsin,when you live on a farm.
And it was very exciting todrop them off at school.
And then I watched onThanksgiving Day, every
Thanksgiving Day, we would watchMiracle on 34th Street.
It came on at like 2 p.m.
And our Thanksgiving dinner wasat noon.
We went to Mass in the morning.
We would have Thanksgivingdinner at noon.
(02:42):
And then we would watch moviesfor the rest of the day.
And a lot of those movies wereholiday movies that took place
in New York City, primarilyMiracle on 34th Street.
And that movie made me fall inlove with New York City because
of the parade.
There was a woman, you know,played by um, oh my gosh.
Oh my gosh, I'm blanking on hername that she's the most
(03:06):
amazing actress, but she was awoman who worked at Macy's and
she was a high-end performer,you know, administrative manager
at a Macy's department store inNew York City.
So she was a powerful womanthat was a great role model in
that sense.
She was a really strongpersonality and she worked and
she was a single mom.
(03:27):
So I thought the city was themost enchanting place.
That wasn't the only movie, butthat was the one that really
inspired me to want to be in thehollow, be in New York City at
the holidays, but also not justto visit New York City at the
holidays, to be part of the NewYork City culture.
And I read every book you canthink of.
J.D.
Salinger's uh books are alltake place in on the Upper West
(03:51):
Side.
And I was so I was justinspired by New York City.
Little Women was one of my thebooks that shaped my entire
personality, shaped my thinking,shaped my sense of the world
and what women could be.
And Jo March goes to New YorkCity when she is seeking to be a
(04:11):
novelist and meet people andexperience things beyond her
world of her home.
So I was always inspired to goto New York City.
And oddly enough, it was soscary to my family that I kept
talking about New York City, andmy mother would always say, in
her thick Wisconsin accent, shewould say, Oh no, you can't go
(04:32):
to Wisconsin.
If you go to New York, you'llbe robbed and you'll be shot and
you'll be lying in a ditch.
And who's gonna come get you?
It's too far.
We can't, so you can't go toNew York City.
She was so when I got to NewYork City, and it was the um
early 1980s, it wasn't thesafest version of New York City.
(04:53):
No, and so it was like liarsand thieves and murderers.
Oh my! I was like Dorothy inOz, but I absolutely loved New
York City.
And can I tell you a quick Iwant I want to tell can I tell
you a quick um New York Citystory that relates to Miracle on
34th Street, or is that gonnatake too much time?
Beverley Glazer (05:12):
Well, we're already in it, so go.
Jude Treder-Wolff (05:14):
Well, I because when I landed here on
the East Coast, um, it was to doan internship at a big uh
psychiatric hospital in NewJersey as a music therapist.
So you have to do a six-monthinternship that was unpaid.
And I was used to being poor, Iwas used to working check to
check until I would get mydegree.
And I my best friend lived onWest 73rd Street in Manhattan.
(05:35):
She was a struggling actress.
She had HBO and she had atelevision, and I lived in a
condemned building on thegrounds of the psychiatric
hospital because they didn't payus anything, but they gave us a
place to live.
And I had a job that gave me alittle bit of a paycheck.
It was a nighttime job, a nightand evening uh weekend job, so
(05:55):
that I would actually have moneyfor shampoo and toothpaste and
things over this course of thissix months.
And halfway through, about, andit was right around the
holidays, it was about the firstweek in December.
My best friend calls me up andshe's sobbing and she says, her
boyfriend broke up with her.
She is needs me to come for theweekend.
And I need to work thatweekend.
(06:16):
I need to work that weekend tohave any money at all for the
week.
But she's my best friend.
We were roommates in Wisconsin.
I I call in sick to my my jobat the pharmacy and I go and
spend the night with my friend.
She's sobbing, she's crying.
I'm like, we're women together,we can do it.
(06:36):
You don't need him.
I she and it's like having anewborn baby.
You know, I sleep when shesleeps, I feed her when she
wakes up, I get her to take ashower.
And by the end of Saturdaynight, I say, Lori, can I I need
to go back, I need to go towork tomorrow.
I need to work.
And she says, You can't leaveme, you can't leave me.
Please, I you stay one moreday.
I can't, and and I feel like Ijust can't abandon her.
(06:59):
So she has a job as a co-check,like all actors do, at a place
called Charlie O's on 57thStreet.
And it everybody goes there forSunday brunch.
That's what they do in New YorkCity.
So she said, just come with meto Charlie O's.
And I said, I call in the nextday.
I'm still like, I don't knowwhat I'm gonna do for money, but
I'm gonna stay here for myfriend.
We'll figure it out.
(07:19):
I go to Charlie O's, she'sdoing coat checking, she's on
the phone trying to get actingjobs.
I'm sitting at the barjournaling about my resentment
that I'm here, that I gave in.
And the the maider D or thehostess comes over to me and she
says, Could you take this trayof drinks over to that table
over there?
And I go, I don't work here.
She says, I know, I know, buttwo people called in and I'm
(07:40):
low, I'm short of people, andthese people are waiting for
their drinks, and there's morepeople coming in.
And I say, Okay, I'll do it.
I take the drinks over to thesepeople and they say, Can we
just place our order?
And I I say, Well, I don't workhere, and I go get a notebook
and I say, Should I take theirorder?
And she goes, Take their order.
So I take their order and I goand hang it up uh on this
clothespin that's between thebar and the kitchen, you know,
(08:03):
and then I start taking otherorders and taking other drinks
out to people.
And when I bring them theirtheir bill, they complain about
the service, and I say, I know,I understand, I don't work here.
And they say, You don't workhere.
I go, No, I don't.
I just was here with my friend,and they said, You just gave us
the most fun story of the day.
And they gave me a $20 tip.
(08:25):
Really nice.
The next table, when I gavethem the bill, they said, There
was a terrible draft for youknow, here.
And I go, I know.
It's I'm sorry about that.
You know what's really I don'twork here.
And they said, You don't workhere, and I go, no, not only
that, I'm a music therapiststruggling for uh doing an
unpaid internship, living in acondemned building in a
(08:46):
psychiatric hospital.
And they give me a $30 tip.
And at the end of the day, I gohome with $200 in tips in cash
because I stayed there with myfriend.
So I had my own little miracleon 57th Street.
People say good things don'thappen in New York, but they do.
And you stayed.
Yes, I stayed.
(09:07):
I stayed, and I got a job rightout of my internship in a
psychiatric hospital in downtownNewark, New Jersey, that I was
hired to be on a team oftherapists.
And I was very excited.
It was a great opportunitybecause creative arts therapy is
this, I feel, cutting edge kindof um mental health treatment.
(09:33):
It still is cutting edgebecause it's always been
marginalized.
It's never really mainstreamed,you know.
Um, and I get to this job and Ifeel like Maria in the Sound of
Music, just on my way to usemusic to change people's lives,
walking through the streets ofNewark, swinging my guitar, so
excited.
And I get there and they and Isay, Oh, I'm hired, you know,
(09:54):
I'm part of the team startingtoday.
And they said, Well, as ofyesterday, you are the team.
And so I discover that with inthe early 1980s, there were some
very savage cuts to socialservices in the United States.
And among those was things inanything that related to mental
health, anything that related topeople, especially marginalized
(10:16):
mental health, uh, uh peoplewith severe mental illness,
these people that that weretreated on this unit.
Really, this unit had reallyhad everybody.
It had college students thathad survived a suicide attempt,
or people with ongoingpsychiatric illness that would
filter in and out because theyhad an episode.
But lots of the patients weredramatically ill, you know,
(10:38):
chronically ill, mentally illpatients that cycled in and out.
And really, it was a very, itwas hard.
And they, the only reason myjob was spared was because it
was the lowest paying job.
So I spent the most time withthe patients, and I had the
least amount of experience.
It was a little bit like beingin the Peace Corps, and I loved
(10:58):
the patients, but I really did,I didn't do a lot of music
therapy.
I did some every day.
We would sing Here Comes theSun, and we would start our day
and end our day with music, butwe also went to Goodwill to get
them clothing, um, took them tochurch events, things that were
free.
Anyway, it was a it was a jobthat taught me on the ground
(11:19):
about the tough side of workingin mental health.
And I loved the work, but I wasvery glad a few years later to
land really my dream job in NewYork City.
So I made it.
It wasn't on 34th Street, itwas on the Upper East Side, but
that was okay.
Oh, yes.
Yeah.
And I was actually not only ona team of creative arts
(11:40):
therapists, but a department,all creative arts, music, art,
drama, dance.
We were the heart of thetherapy on uh on this in this
hospital.
And I loved that job so much.
Um, it was a life-changingexperience, and it was an
eight-year project to get tothat job.
And I and I at that point metsomeone and ended up staying
(12:03):
here for the rest of my life.
Beverley Glazer (12:09):
And how do you blend creativity into your
professional work?
Jude Treder-Wolff (12:16):
I think of creativity as the energy of
change.
So when you think about youjust even using the arts as an
example, the notes in a song, orthe paints that a painter uses,
or the words that a writeruses, these tools, these reasons
we use these tools and we mixthem up to create something
original, to create somethingnovel, something that is unique.
(12:39):
And along the way, we're gonnado some other version of it.
And I think the same is truefor when we seek to change
ourselves and we want to changehabits, we want to change the
way we think, we want to grow,expand.
Creativity is about managinguncertainty.
It's about taking what we haveand going to the growing edge of
(13:00):
what we know and experimentingand exploring using the tools
that we have, but to be in thatstate of uncertainty and
exploration and feel okay withit.
So, as a creative artstherapist, I feel like the
secret sauce of good therapy,any good therapy, you don't have
to be trained as a creativearts therapist, but a good
(13:22):
psychotherapist, is engagingwith that sense of uncertainty
and staying grounded at the sametime.
So there's kind of a Goldiluxamount of uncertainty.
There's enough that we knowwe're in the unknown, that we're
experimenting with versions ofourselves we haven't tried
before.
We're talking about things wehaven't maybe unearthed before.
(13:45):
And in so doing, expanding intoparts or expressions of
ourselves that are new anddifferent, uncomfortable,
unfamiliar.
And creativity is shaping that.
It's saying it's okay.
It's okay for it to feel weirdand uncomfortable.
It's not only okay, it's reallywhat we want.
And then it doesn't have to beright or wrong.
It's an expression of somethingthat we can then shape for the
(14:08):
world we want to, well, how wewant to shape our own reality,
which we can do to some extent.
I don't, I'm not one of thosepeople that says all of our
reality is our own creation.
Of course, we're co-creating aworld with everyone we know
intimately and also a social asocial world that we're a part
of and impacted by.
But creativity is that energywithin us that is capable of
(14:30):
seeing things in new ways,trying things.
And as a therapist, I try tohelp people to be okay with the
fact that we're not gonna get itright every time we're going to
try things and we're gonnaforget.
And because old defenses willcome up.
Old defenses that are part ofwho we used to be or what we
(14:53):
needed for survival.
Those are gonna come up whenwe're frightened.
But I really want to helppeople to experiment with the
idea of who can I be?
What can I become?
And then grow into it.
And it's really growing inch byinch.
I think of it as like the kithose, you know, the little
metal teeth on a zipper.
They have to click, they haveto connect firmly so that when
(15:18):
you put pressure on that zipper,it will hold.
And I think of real change asthat kind of click, click, click
of small shifts.
And we think of things in acreative way that even a small
creative shift can feeltransformative and feel like,
oh, I'm on to something withouthaving to take a big leap.
(15:39):
So that when we put pressure onthat change that we're trying
to make, it holds.
I think a lot of times peoplethink of creativity maybe as
wild and undisciplined, and it'spretty much the opposite.
It's a wild mind with adisciplined eye or the
disciplined practice.
It's it's the beginning, youknow, it's it's it's knowing
(16:01):
that we can be more than what wemaybe have scripted for
ourselves or the world hasscripted for us, and that we can
do that in a step-by-step waythat's building skills toward
the new.
Beverley Glazer (16:14):
Yes.
And we also think of improv asbeing the scariest thing because
you have to stand up there andlet's talk about that because
you're an improv coach, andimprov can help people just be
who they are and becomespontaneous, and that is scary
stuff.
So tell us about that.
(16:35):
What does improv do for you?
How did you find improv in thefirst place?
Jude Treder-Wolff (16:40):
Well, thank you so much for asking because
it is my very favorite topic.
Um, well, I discovered improvby watching it, which I think is
often how we discover things wewant in life, is we see them
just like I saw a miracle on34th Street and said, I want New
York City.
Um, in New York City, if youare poor, as I was for a very
(17:02):
long time, you know, just livingon the low end, you go to
things that are inexpensive.
And the inexpensive shows, the$12 shows, are improv shows
because there's no set, there'sno script, there's people who
are often not being paid,they're doing it for love, for
their own growth.
And a lot of those people mightgo on to be on Saturday Night
Live at some point.
(17:22):
However, a lot of years theyspent in front of real people in
a small black box theater.
And so when I was broke andliving in New York City, I would
go to improv shows because Icould afford them.
I really didn't even know whatit was.
And there's a kind of magicabout seeing people get on
stage, create something togetherwithout a script, without a
(17:43):
set, without costumes, and beginto find the they're finding it
with you, but when they're goodat it, there's an absolute
magic.
It looks like they that theyplanned it, but of course they
didn't.
And I had to know how thathappens.
I had to.
I I thought I need tounderstand how they do that.
Uh, because it was verycompelling and it would always
(18:05):
leave me with this feeling ofenergy and dynamism.
Like I love theater in general,and I and that generally
happens with music and theaterfor me.
I think for most people, therewas something about improv that
was extra special, and it had todo with that spontaneity that
the the players were bringing tothe room.
And of course, they could bomb,but it was always okay.
(18:26):
Like we all knew that it waspeople trying.
They were trying.
So when I began to take, that'show I discovered it as a art
form and as a way to findrenewal, but I also saw as
creative magic.
And I'm telling you, as a musictherapist, when you're trained,
and I was a musician all mylife, there's something about
music training that really turnsyou into a bit of a radical
(18:48):
perfectionist that is not good.
That part is not good.
I couldn't, I was never could,and it was partly in my
upbringing as well, but thisradical perfectionism shut me
down whenever it was a constantediting, just constant editing
of myself, and especially whenit came to trying to create
music or create something.
So to see people not doingthat, doing the opposite of
(19:11):
that, of course, like you said,it's scary, but I knew that it
could happen if they could doit.
I wanted to see how it works.
So when I went into classes,the thing, the beauty of improv
is that from the very beginning,the classes are designed for
someone who has never done thisbefore, to be able to connect to
another human being that theydon't know with a game.
(19:32):
Now, the roots of improv theway we know it come from a woman
named Viola Spolin who workedin settlement houses, which was
so there's the roots of socialwork and improv that are
intertwined in Chicago.
So when these immigrants wouldcome to the United States in the
early 1900s, late 1800s, early1900s, and they didn't speak the
(19:52):
language, they didn't know theculture, they were lonely, they
were, they didn't haveresources.
Viola Spolin was an actingteacher who worked with social
workers that were trying to helpthese people have resources,
and they created thesesettlement houses.
And in the settlement houseswould be all kinds of, there'd
be child care, there'd beclothes, there would be, but
they did theater.
(20:13):
And because there was alanguage barrier, they created
games that overcame theselanguage barriers, but would
teach people social skills forthe world they were in, but
mainly to connect with eachother.
Well, that's what the improvgames that I began to do in
classes were all grounded.
That's where Second City camefrom, which exactly has roots in
those settlement houses inChicago.
(20:35):
But so does the improv that welearn.
If somebody takes an improvclass today, it goes back to
that work of strangers comingtogether and creating something
so that they could then go outin the world and be more
effective and not as stressedout and more um adaptive and
agile in a high-tensionenvironment where everything was
(20:58):
new and different.
Well, improv, if you thinkabout our just going into a
class, yeah, it's a littleelectrifying to not know what's
going to happen, but the stakesare actually low.
There's really not, your lifeis not at stake.
Your well-being is not atstake.
You are it's it's designed toum bring us into the moment,
(21:20):
connect with another person in avery fun way.
So all exercises in improv aredesigned that way to make them
have maximum fun, stretch us alittle bit so we know we don't
quite know where it's gonna go,but we know we're okay because
the other people are gonnasupport us.
Um, and so that was why I wasable to do it from the very
(21:41):
beginning.
I realized, oh, something'svery different about this
creative training than when Iwas training to be a musician,
which where everything has to beperfect, and everybody notices
every mistake you make in music.
They do.
I mean, I was a performer froma very young age, and it made me
very self-conscious, not onlyas a musician, but just as a
person.
And improv began to replacethose defenses and that constant
(22:07):
censoring with an expansionthat actually made me more agile
on stage and in life, moreadaptive and better at music.
Beverley Glazer (22:21):
So it frees you, it liberates you.
It's a liber, yes.
Yes, yes.
And how can what could you sayto people who are over 50, have
all the troubles of the world atthat period of time?
Uh life could be treating thempretty rough.
And they feel stuck.
(22:42):
And here you're talking aboutthe joy in the community of
letting go.
What could you say to thesepeople?
Jude Treder-Wolff (22:49):
Well, first I have to say I do teach improv
in person and online, and justabout everybody in my classes is
over 50 and well over 50because partly because I I
started doing a lot of thisduring the pandemic online.
Um, and people were looking forsomething that would be a kind
(23:11):
of connector, not knowing thatthey would actually kind of fall
in love with it.
And the thing is, we arecapable over the course of our
lives of doing new things.
We just have to do them.
And the thing about improv isit's active, it's very
experiential, it's engaging.
We've never we're not there towatch, we're there to play.
So just like if you're in abaseball game, the ball isn't
(23:34):
constantly coming at you, right?
But you're part of an uh anunpredictable but structured
experience.
You know what you're if you'replaying outfield or if you're
hitting, or if you're on a baseor if you're hitting or
whatever, you know what you'resupposed to be doing, but you
don't know when you're gonnahave to use the skills that
you've learned.
You don't exactly know whichexactly skills you will be
(23:56):
called for in any given moment.
You're watching the play, andit's very exciting.
Well, that's the exact samething that we're learning in
improv, except it's about notabout a game, a baseball game,
but it's about a game of thatinvolves dynamics and
relationships, dynamics among inan environment.
And it calls on you to use yourimagination and at the same
(24:19):
time engage with other people inreal time.
So those two things, they're alittle bit, you know, unusual
for people to be in theirimagination.
Maybe they're think their lifeis very scripted, and maybe it
has been.
And maybe that's a veryuncomfortable place to be, and
yet just that little bit of astretch of stretching of that,
okay, now you're uh uh let'slet's hear you, let's hear you
(24:42):
talk about your day, but in thestyle of a preacher or
something.
That's a that's an exercise Imight do in the style of uh a
cheerleader, um um, in the styleof a spy who's not supposed to
be talking about this, in thestyle of a gossip.
That's a that's an exercise wemight just talk about your day,
but we're gonna give you astyle.
And it's surprising how peoplecan go, oh yeah, I can I can do
(25:05):
that.
That's and have a lot of fundoing it.
And I'll say, see, you justimprovised.
You just you are an improviser.
And then from that, we begin torealize, oh, we have all these
reserves of energy, we havethese parts of ourselves that
have maybe never really beengiven a good stretch.
And here you have anopportunity to do that and to be
(25:25):
more than you were before, andyou can take it or leave it,
what you want to do with it inlife.
But I do find even people indeep grief, I've had people that
were in deep grief, peoplegoing through um healing from
traumas, that when they wouldcome to an improv class, you
would think they would not beable to focus.
But in fact, it's the opposite.
The way we use our brain andthe relationship focus of improv
(25:50):
for that period of time takesus out of the suffering.
It's not that the suffering isgone, it takes us to it shifts
us out of it into the creativemind.
So we're not protecting againstthe pain, nor are we in the
pain.
We're in this other set of umpsychological skills and
(26:15):
energies, I guess the best wayto put it.
It sounds a little new agey,but it's a it's a it's a
psychological space where we'refocused on uh the other people
that we're with and usingourselves in a way that is so
unusual that you that it justputs that other thing to the
(26:36):
side.
I remember when my my uh in2014, my husband had a
life-threatening illness, had togo through a very big surgery.
It was scary, and we were tolda lot of things to be prepared
for.
So going into it, I was didn'tknow if my life was going to
(26:56):
change in a major way uh andbecome much more stressful, and
I was gonna lose something thatI'd had for a long time.
I didn't know.
We didn't know how he was gonnacome through it.
And I was in a three-hourimprov class from one to four on
Mondays.
And I would remember the firsttime I went to that class after
we got this diagnosis, and Ifelt so guilty and so dumb.
(27:19):
Why am I doing this?
What like this is not where Ishould be.
I should be, I don't, I didn'tknow what I should, I just
didn't think it didn't feelright.
During that three hours, Iforgot all about my troubles.
After the three hours, ofcourse I remembered my troubles.
(27:39):
And I had more energy for them.
I had more to bring to it, Ihad more resilience.
And I think of it this way thatyour life is gonna be filled
with troubles and struggles.
And you say, as we get older,of course, there are more
because we know more people,there are more losses, illnesses
(28:02):
start to happen, things likethis.
And think of your your life asa room and the troubles, the
room is filling up with water.
And comedy or improv doesn'thave to be comedy, but improv
can often become comedy.
But creative improvisationalexperiences are like a bubble
where you're riding that rise ofwater.
(28:24):
You're not denying it, you'rejust not drowning in it, you
know.
Beverley Glazer (28:31):
So you're giving yourself a break, just a
little bit of break, a break ofcreativity.
One last thing, what messagewould you give to help women
just find their joy?
Jude Treder-Wolff (28:45):
For women to find their joy, first
friendships, connections, maketime for your friends.
I think for my life, becauseI've been very poor in my life,
I've been alone at times, youknow, when where I really was on
my own, like in, you know, onmy own without family support or
(29:08):
without, and it was always anetwork of friends, sort of a
cosmic net, whether they werenearby or I had to connect them
by phone.
Friendships are theinfrastructure of our emotional
safety net.
So to find joy, talk aboutyourself with other people, with
(29:28):
but with other women who getyou.
Find people who get you andprotect that relationship if you
if you can find them.
Try new things.
I think joy comes fromdiscovery.
I mean, you we know what makesus happy, and of course, we have
to do the things we should dothe things that we know reliably
will uplift.
(29:49):
For me, it's music, theater,comedy.
I love that stuff, and itreliably will give me the energy
that I need to cope.
Um, for For some people, it'spainting, nature, oh love, you
know, love going into nature.
Um, and so my particularprescription, just being me,
because everybody has to findtheir their own path, is I say
(30:11):
tap into something new inyourself and find a lot of
support for it.
And that can bring joy, even inthe darkest of times.
And joy gives us resilience forthe hard things.
Yes.
Beverley Glazer (30:28):
Thank you.
Thank you, Jude.
Jude Trader Wolf is atherapist, a storyteller, and an
improv coach who helps peoplerediscover confidence and
creativity at any stage of life.
She is a moth story slam winnerand host of the hit show Mostly
True Things.
She's performed on PBS storiesfor the stage, Risk, and the
(30:53):
Story Collider.
And through her company lifestage, she blends psychology,
humor, and storytelling intolife's challenging moments.
And she can challenge anyoneinto growth, connection, and
purpose.
And here are a few takeawaysfrom this episode.
Life doesn't follow a script.
(31:15):
Stop trying to control it.
Creativity connects you to yourdreams and taking chances.
And when you share your ownstory, you help someone believe
in their story too.
If you've been relating to thisepisode, here are a few actions
that you can take for yourselfright now.
Do something spontaneous.
(31:35):
Sing, doodle, laugh, or for noreason at all, just act a little
crazy.
Share a story from your life,tell a friend, write a journal,
and notice how it changes yourperspective.
And say yes to something thatyou never do and be curious
instead of trying to control it.
(31:57):
For similar episodes on thepower of creativity, check out
episodes 120 and 126 of Agingwith Purpose and Passion.
And you might also enjoyWellness Wednesdays, which is
hosted by gerontologist SallyDuplantier.
These webinars that featuretopics about healthy aging,
(32:18):
visit MyZingLife.com to learnmore.
And so, Jude, where can peoplefind you and where can you share
your links so they can find youafter the show?
Jude Treder-Wolff (32:31):
I'll show that in one second.
I just want to say yoursummation is genius.
It was absolutely beautiful tohear your summation.
Thank you so much for that.
Those takeaways were so great.
I have a podcast called Improvin Real Life.
And on that podcast, there'slots of in-depth conversations
about applications of improv toreal life.
And there's exercises we dotogether, the guest and myself,
(32:54):
that people can just do withtheir friends or their kids or
their spouse, and you can justpractice in your real life
tapping into the spontaneity.
So I hope you'll take a listento improv in real life.
Um, I'm on Instagram aslifestage underscore inc,
Facebook, Jude Wolf, LinkedIn,JudeWolf.
That's about it.
(33:15):
And my website.
Well, my websites arelifestage.me and
judeTreadderwolf.com.
Beverley Glazer (33:22):
Perfect.
And all Jude's links and allthis information, they're going
to be in the show notes.
And they're also going to be onmy site too.
That's reinventimpossible.com.
And so, my friends, what's nextfor you?
Are you just going through themotions or are you living a life
that you truly love?
Get my free guide to go fromstuck to unstoppable.
(33:45):
And where do you think theyare?
Yep, they're in the show notes.
You can connect with me,Beverley Glazer, on all social
media platforms and in mypositive group of women on
Facebook.
That's Women Over50 Rock.
And thank you for listening.
Have you enjoyed thisconversation?
Please subscribe and help usspread the word by dropping a
(34:08):
review and sending it to afriend.
And remember, you only have onelife.
So live it with purpose andpassion.
Announcer (34:22):
Thank you for joining us.
You can connect with Bev on herwebsite,
reinventimpossible.com.
And while you're there, joinour newsletter.
Subscribe so you don't miss anepisode.
Until next time, keep agingwith purpose and passion.
And celebrate life.
Welcome to Aging with Purpose and Passion, the
podcast designed to inspire yourgreatness and thrive through
life.
Get ready to conquer yourfears.
Here's your host,psychotherapist, coach, and
empowerment expert, BeverleyGlazer.
Beverley Glazer (00:33):
What if the key to rediscovering yourself was
found in a story.
Welcome to Aging with Purposeand Passion.
I'm Beverley Glazer, atransition coach and catalyst
for women who are ready to raisethe bar in their own lives.
And you can find me onreInventimpossible.com.
Jude Treder Wolf turns messylives into being a kid.
(00:57):
She's a therapist, astoryteller, and an improv coach
who helps people rediscoverconfidence and creativity at any
stage of life.
Jude is a mock story swanwinner and host of the hit show
Mostly True Things.
She performed on DBS, Storiesfor the Stage, Risk, and the
(01:20):
Story Collider.
And through her company LifeStage, she blends psychology,
humor, and storytelling to turnlife's challenges into growth,
connection, and purpose.
Welcome, Jude.
Welcome.
Jude Treder-Wolff (01:36):
Thank you so much.
What a delight to be here.
Beverley Glazer (01:40):
It's wonderful having you.
And this is can be an improv,right?
Jude Treder-Wolff (01:44):
Every conversation is an improv when
you think about it.
It really is.
Beverley Glazer (01:49):
It sure is.
Jude, you grew up in Wisconsin,but always dreamed of the big
city New York.
Why New York?
Jude Treder-Wolff (02:00):
I loved cities when I was, I grew up on
a farm.
And my brothers, I havebrothers that are 10, 12, 14
years older than me from a verylong, you know, one of these
very large farm families thatare basically a generation.
And my older brothers went tocollege in Milwaukee, which was
(02:21):
the New York City of Wisconsin,when you live on a farm.
And it was very exciting todrop them off at school.
And then I watched onThanksgiving Day, every
Thanksgiving Day, we would watchMiracle on 34th Street.
It came on at like 2 p.m.
And our Thanksgiving dinner wasat noon.
We went to Mass in the morning.
We would have Thanksgivingdinner at noon.
(02:42):
And then we would watch moviesfor the rest of the day.
And a lot of those movies wereholiday movies that took place
in New York City, primarilyMiracle on 34th Street.
And that movie made me fall inlove with New York City because
of the parade.
There was a woman, you know,played by um, oh my gosh.
Oh my gosh, I'm blanking on hername that she's the most
(03:06):
amazing actress, but she was awoman who worked at Macy's and
she was a high-end performer,you know, administrative manager
at a Macy's department store inNew York City.
So she was a powerful womanthat was a great role model in
that sense.
She was a really strongpersonality and she worked and
she was a single mom.
(03:27):
So I thought the city was themost enchanting place.
That wasn't the only movie, butthat was the one that really
inspired me to want to be in thehollow, be in New York City at
the holidays, but also not justto visit New York City at the
holidays, to be part of the NewYork City culture.
And I read every book you canthink of.
J.D.
Salinger's uh books are alltake place in on the Upper West
(03:51):
Side.
And I was so I was justinspired by New York City.
Little Women was one of my thebooks that shaped my entire
personality, shaped my thinking,shaped my sense of the world
and what women could be.
And Jo March goes to New YorkCity when she is seeking to be a
(04:11):
novelist and meet people andexperience things beyond her
world of her home.
So I was always inspired to goto New York City.
And oddly enough, it was soscary to my family that I kept
talking about New York City, andmy mother would always say, in
her thick Wisconsin accent, shewould say, Oh no, you can't go
(04:32):
to Wisconsin.
If you go to New York, you'llbe robbed and you'll be shot and
you'll be lying in a ditch.
And who's gonna come get you?
It's too far.
We can't, so you can't go toNew York City.
She was so when I got to NewYork City, and it was the um
early 1980s, it wasn't thesafest version of New York City.
(04:53):
No, and so it was like liarsand thieves and murderers.
Oh my! I was like Dorothy inOz, but I absolutely loved New
York City.
And can I tell you a quick Iwant I want to tell can I tell
you a quick um New York Citystory that relates to Miracle on
34th Street, or is that gonnatake too much time?
Beverley Glazer (05:12):
Well, we're already in it, so go.
Jude Treder-Wolff (05:14):
Well, I because when I landed here on
the East Coast, um, it was to doan internship at a big uh
psychiatric hospital in NewJersey as a music therapist.
So you have to do a six-monthinternship that was unpaid.
And I was used to being poor, Iwas used to working check to
check until I would get mydegree.
And I my best friend lived onWest 73rd Street in Manhattan.
(05:35):
She was a struggling actress.
She had HBO and she had atelevision, and I lived in a
condemned building on thegrounds of the psychiatric
hospital because they didn't payus anything, but they gave us a
place to live.
And I had a job that gave me alittle bit of a paycheck.
It was a nighttime job, a nightand evening uh weekend job, so
(05:55):
that I would actually have moneyfor shampoo and toothpaste and
things over this course of thissix months.
And halfway through, about, andit was right around the
holidays, it was about the firstweek in December.
My best friend calls me up andshe's sobbing and she says, her
boyfriend broke up with her.
She is needs me to come for theweekend.
And I need to work thatweekend.
(06:16):
I need to work that weekend tohave any money at all for the
week.
But she's my best friend.
We were roommates in Wisconsin.
I I call in sick to my my jobat the pharmacy and I go and
spend the night with my friend.
She's sobbing, she's crying.
I'm like, we're women together,we can do it.
(06:36):
You don't need him.
I she and it's like having anewborn baby.
You know, I sleep when shesleeps, I feed her when she
wakes up, I get her to take ashower.
And by the end of Saturdaynight, I say, Lori, can I I need
to go back, I need to go towork tomorrow.
I need to work.
And she says, You can't leaveme, you can't leave me.
Please, I you stay one moreday.
I can't, and and I feel like Ijust can't abandon her.
(06:59):
So she has a job as a co-check,like all actors do, at a place
called Charlie O's on 57thStreet.
And it everybody goes there forSunday brunch.
That's what they do in New YorkCity.
So she said, just come with meto Charlie O's.
And I said, I call in the nextday.
I'm still like, I don't knowwhat I'm gonna do for money, but
I'm gonna stay here for myfriend.
We'll figure it out.
(07:19):
I go to Charlie O's, she'sdoing coat checking, she's on
the phone trying to get actingjobs.
I'm sitting at the barjournaling about my resentment
that I'm here, that I gave in.
And the the maider D or thehostess comes over to me and she
says, Could you take this trayof drinks over to that table
over there?
And I go, I don't work here.
She says, I know, I know, buttwo people called in and I'm
(07:40):
low, I'm short of people, andthese people are waiting for
their drinks, and there's morepeople coming in.
And I say, Okay, I'll do it.
I take the drinks over to thesepeople and they say, Can we
just place our order?
And I I say, Well, I don't workhere, and I go get a notebook
and I say, Should I take theirorder?
And she goes, Take their order.
So I take their order and I goand hang it up uh on this
clothespin that's between thebar and the kitchen, you know,
(08:03):
and then I start taking otherorders and taking other drinks
out to people.
And when I bring them theirtheir bill, they complain about
the service, and I say, I know,I understand, I don't work here.
And they say, You don't workhere.
I go, No, I don't.
I just was here with my friend,and they said, You just gave us
the most fun story of the day.
And they gave me a $20 tip.
(08:25):
Really nice.
The next table, when I gavethem the bill, they said, There
was a terrible draft for youknow, here.
And I go, I know.
It's I'm sorry about that.
You know what's really I don'twork here.
And they said, You don't workhere, and I go, no, not only
that, I'm a music therapiststruggling for uh doing an
unpaid internship, living in acondemned building in a
(08:46):
psychiatric hospital.
And they give me a $30 tip.
And at the end of the day, I gohome with $200 in tips in cash
because I stayed there with myfriend.
So I had my own little miracleon 57th Street.
People say good things don'thappen in New York, but they do.
And you stayed.
Yes, I stayed.
(09:07):
I stayed, and I got a job rightout of my internship in a
psychiatric hospital in downtownNewark, New Jersey, that I was
hired to be on a team oftherapists.
And I was very excited.
It was a great opportunitybecause creative arts therapy is
this, I feel, cutting edge kindof um mental health treatment.
(09:33):
It still is cutting edgebecause it's always been
marginalized.
It's never really mainstreamed,you know.
Um, and I get to this job and Ifeel like Maria in the Sound of
Music, just on my way to usemusic to change people's lives,
walking through the streets ofNewark, swinging my guitar, so
excited.
And I get there and they and Isay, Oh, I'm hired, you know,
(09:54):
I'm part of the team startingtoday.
And they said, Well, as ofyesterday, you are the team.
And so I discover that with inthe early 1980s, there were some
very savage cuts to socialservices in the United States.
And among those was things inanything that related to mental
health, anything that related topeople, especially marginalized
(10:16):
mental health, uh, uh peoplewith severe mental illness,
these people that that weretreated on this unit.
Really, this unit had reallyhad everybody.
It had college students thathad survived a suicide attempt,
or people with ongoingpsychiatric illness that would
filter in and out because theyhad an episode.
But lots of the patients weredramatically ill, you know,
(10:38):
chronically ill, mentally illpatients that cycled in and out.
And really, it was a very, itwas hard.
And they, the only reason myjob was spared was because it
was the lowest paying job.
So I spent the most time withthe patients, and I had the
least amount of experience.
It was a little bit like beingin the Peace Corps, and I loved
(10:58):
the patients, but I really did,I didn't do a lot of music
therapy.
I did some every day.
We would sing Here Comes theSun, and we would start our day
and end our day with music, butwe also went to Goodwill to get
them clothing, um, took them tochurch events, things that were
free.
Anyway, it was a it was a jobthat taught me on the ground
(11:19):
about the tough side of workingin mental health.
And I loved the work, but I wasvery glad a few years later to
land really my dream job in NewYork City.
So I made it.
It wasn't on 34th Street, itwas on the Upper East Side, but
that was okay.
Oh, yes.
Yeah.
And I was actually not only ona team of creative arts
(11:40):
therapists, but a department,all creative arts, music, art,
drama, dance.
We were the heart of thetherapy on uh on this in this
hospital.
And I loved that job so much.
Um, it was a life-changingexperience, and it was an
eight-year project to get tothat job.
And I and I at that point metsomeone and ended up staying
(12:03):
here for the rest of my life.
Beverley Glazer (12:09):
And how do you blend creativity into your
professional work?
Jude Treder-Wolff (12:16):
I think of creativity as the energy of
change.
So when you think about youjust even using the arts as an
example, the notes in a song, orthe paints that a painter uses,
or the words that a writeruses, these tools, these reasons
we use these tools and we mixthem up to create something
original, to create somethingnovel, something that is unique.
(12:39):
And along the way, we're gonnado some other version of it.
And I think the same is truefor when we seek to change
ourselves and we want to changehabits, we want to change the
way we think, we want to grow,expand.
Creativity is about managinguncertainty.
It's about taking what we haveand going to the growing edge of
(13:00):
what we know and experimentingand exploring using the tools
that we have, but to be in thatstate of uncertainty and
exploration and feel okay withit.
So, as a creative artstherapist, I feel like the
secret sauce of good therapy,any good therapy, you don't have
to be trained as a creativearts therapist, but a good
(13:22):
psychotherapist, is engagingwith that sense of uncertainty
and staying grounded at the sametime.
So there's kind of a Goldiluxamount of uncertainty.
There's enough that we knowwe're in the unknown, that we're
experimenting with versions ofourselves we haven't tried
before.
We're talking about things wehaven't maybe unearthed before.
(13:45):
And in so doing, expanding intoparts or expressions of
ourselves that are new anddifferent, uncomfortable,
unfamiliar.
And creativity is shaping that.
It's saying it's okay.
It's okay for it to feel weirdand uncomfortable.
It's not only okay, it's reallywhat we want.
And then it doesn't have to beright or wrong.
It's an expression of somethingthat we can then shape for the
(14:08):
world we want to, well, how wewant to shape our own reality,
which we can do to some extent.
I don't, I'm not one of thosepeople that says all of our
reality is our own creation.
Of course, we're co-creating aworld with everyone we know
intimately and also a social asocial world that we're a part
of and impacted by.
But creativity is that energywithin us that is capable of
(14:30):
seeing things in new ways,trying things.
And as a therapist, I try tohelp people to be okay with the
fact that we're not gonna get itright every time we're going to
try things and we're gonnaforget.
And because old defenses willcome up.
Old defenses that are part ofwho we used to be or what we
(14:53):
needed for survival.
Those are gonna come up whenwe're frightened.
But I really want to helppeople to experiment with the
idea of who can I be?
What can I become?
And then grow into it.
And it's really growing inch byinch.
I think of it as like the kithose, you know, the little
metal teeth on a zipper.
They have to click, they haveto connect firmly so that when
(15:18):
you put pressure on that zipper,it will hold.
And I think of real change asthat kind of click, click, click
of small shifts.
And we think of things in acreative way that even a small
creative shift can feeltransformative and feel like,
oh, I'm on to something withouthaving to take a big leap.
(15:39):
So that when we put pressure onthat change that we're trying
to make, it holds.
I think a lot of times peoplethink of creativity maybe as
wild and undisciplined, and it'spretty much the opposite.
It's a wild mind with adisciplined eye or the
disciplined practice.
It's it's the beginning, youknow, it's it's it's knowing
(16:01):
that we can be more than what wemaybe have scripted for
ourselves or the world hasscripted for us, and that we can
do that in a step-by-step waythat's building skills toward
the new.
Beverley Glazer (16:14):
Yes.
And we also think of improv asbeing the scariest thing because
you have to stand up there andlet's talk about that because
you're an improv coach, andimprov can help people just be
who they are and becomespontaneous, and that is scary
stuff.
So tell us about that.
(16:35):
What does improv do for you?
How did you find improv in thefirst place?
Jude Treder-Wolff (16:40):
Well, thank you so much for asking because
it is my very favorite topic.
Um, well, I discovered improvby watching it, which I think is
often how we discover things wewant in life, is we see them
just like I saw a miracle on34th Street and said, I want New
York City.
Um, in New York City, if youare poor, as I was for a very
(17:02):
long time, you know, just livingon the low end, you go to
things that are inexpensive.
And the inexpensive shows, the$12 shows, are improv shows
because there's no set, there'sno script, there's people who
are often not being paid,they're doing it for love, for
their own growth.
And a lot of those people mightgo on to be on Saturday Night
Live at some point.
(17:22):
However, a lot of years theyspent in front of real people in
a small black box theater.
And so when I was broke andliving in New York City, I would
go to improv shows because Icould afford them.
I really didn't even know whatit was.
And there's a kind of magicabout seeing people get on
stage, create something togetherwithout a script, without a
(17:43):
set, without costumes, and beginto find the they're finding it
with you, but when they're goodat it, there's an absolute
magic.
It looks like they that theyplanned it, but of course they
didn't.
And I had to know how thathappens.
I had to.
I I thought I need tounderstand how they do that.
Uh, because it was verycompelling and it would always
(18:05):
leave me with this feeling ofenergy and dynamism.
Like I love theater in general,and I and that generally
happens with music and theaterfor me.
I think for most people, therewas something about improv that
was extra special, and it had todo with that spontaneity that
the the players were bringing tothe room.
And of course, they could bomb,but it was always okay.
(18:26):
Like we all knew that it waspeople trying.
They were trying.
So when I began to take, that'show I discovered it as a art
form and as a way to findrenewal, but I also saw as
creative magic.
And I'm telling you, as a musictherapist, when you're trained,
and I was a musician all mylife, there's something about
music training that really turnsyou into a bit of a radical
(18:48):
perfectionist that is not good.
That part is not good.
I couldn't, I was never could,and it was partly in my
upbringing as well, but thisradical perfectionism shut me
down whenever it was a constantediting, just constant editing
of myself, and especially whenit came to trying to create
music or create something.
So to see people not doingthat, doing the opposite of
(19:11):
that, of course, like you said,it's scary, but I knew that it
could happen if they could doit.
I wanted to see how it works.
So when I went into classes,the thing, the beauty of improv
is that from the very beginning,the classes are designed for
someone who has never done thisbefore, to be able to connect to
another human being that theydon't know with a game.
(19:32):
Now, the roots of improv theway we know it come from a woman
named Viola Spolin who workedin settlement houses, which was
so there's the roots of socialwork and improv that are
intertwined in Chicago.
So when these immigrants wouldcome to the United States in the
early 1900s, late 1800s, early1900s, and they didn't speak the
(19:52):
language, they didn't know theculture, they were lonely, they
were, they didn't haveresources.
Viola Spolin was an actingteacher who worked with social
workers that were trying to helpthese people have resources,
and they created thesesettlement houses.
And in the settlement houseswould be all kinds of, there'd
be child care, there'd beclothes, there would be, but
they did theater.
(20:13):
And because there was alanguage barrier, they created
games that overcame theselanguage barriers, but would
teach people social skills forthe world they were in, but
mainly to connect with eachother.
Well, that's what the improvgames that I began to do in
classes were all grounded.
That's where Second City camefrom, which exactly has roots in
those settlement houses inChicago.
(20:35):
But so does the improv that welearn.
If somebody takes an improvclass today, it goes back to
that work of strangers comingtogether and creating something
so that they could then go outin the world and be more
effective and not as stressedout and more um adaptive and
agile in a high-tensionenvironment where everything was
(20:58):
new and different.
Well, improv, if you thinkabout our just going into a
class, yeah, it's a littleelectrifying to not know what's
going to happen, but the stakesare actually low.
There's really not, your lifeis not at stake.
Your well-being is not atstake.
You are it's it's designed toum bring us into the moment,
(21:20):
connect with another person in avery fun way.
So all exercises in improv aredesigned that way to make them
have maximum fun, stretch us alittle bit so we know we don't
quite know where it's gonna go,but we know we're okay because
the other people are gonnasupport us.
Um, and so that was why I wasable to do it from the very
(21:41):
beginning.
I realized, oh, something'svery different about this
creative training than when Iwas training to be a musician,
which where everything has to beperfect, and everybody notices
every mistake you make in music.
They do.
I mean, I was a performer froma very young age, and it made me
very self-conscious, not onlyas a musician, but just as a
person.
And improv began to replacethose defenses and that constant
(22:07):
censoring with an expansionthat actually made me more agile
on stage and in life, moreadaptive and better at music.
Beverley Glazer (22:21):
So it frees you, it liberates you.
It's a liber, yes.
Yes, yes.
And how can what could you sayto people who are over 50, have
all the troubles of the world atthat period of time?
Uh life could be treating thempretty rough.
And they feel stuck.
(22:42):
And here you're talking aboutthe joy in the community of
letting go.
What could you say to thesepeople?
Jude Treder-Wolff (22:49):
Well, first I have to say I do teach improv
in person and online, and justabout everybody in my classes is
over 50 and well over 50because partly because I I
started doing a lot of thisduring the pandemic online.
Um, and people were looking forsomething that would be a kind
(23:11):
of connector, not knowing thatthey would actually kind of fall
in love with it.
And the thing is, we arecapable over the course of our
lives of doing new things.
We just have to do them.
And the thing about improv isit's active, it's very
experiential, it's engaging.
We've never we're not there towatch, we're there to play.
So just like if you're in abaseball game, the ball isn't
(23:34):
constantly coming at you, right?
But you're part of an uh anunpredictable but structured
experience.
You know what you're if you'replaying outfield or if you're
hitting, or if you're on a baseor if you're hitting or
whatever, you know what you'resupposed to be doing, but you
don't know when you're gonnahave to use the skills that
you've learned.
You don't exactly know whichexactly skills you will be
(23:56):
called for in any given moment.
You're watching the play, andit's very exciting.
Well, that's the exact samething that we're learning in
improv, except it's about notabout a game, a baseball game,
but it's about a game of thatinvolves dynamics and
relationships, dynamics among inan environment.
And it calls on you to use yourimagination and at the same
(24:19):
time engage with other people inreal time.
So those two things, they're alittle bit, you know, unusual
for people to be in theirimagination.
Maybe they're think their lifeis very scripted, and maybe it
has been.
And maybe that's a veryuncomfortable place to be, and
yet just that little bit of astretch of stretching of that,
okay, now you're uh uh let'slet's hear you, let's hear you
(24:42):
talk about your day, but in thestyle of a preacher or
something.
That's a that's an exercise Imight do in the style of uh a
cheerleader, um um, in the styleof a spy who's not supposed to
be talking about this, in thestyle of a gossip.
That's a that's an exercise wemight just talk about your day,
but we're gonna give you astyle.
And it's surprising how peoplecan go, oh yeah, I can I can do
(25:05):
that.
That's and have a lot of fundoing it.
And I'll say, see, you justimprovised.
You just you are an improviser.
And then from that, we begin torealize, oh, we have all these
reserves of energy, we havethese parts of ourselves that
have maybe never really beengiven a good stretch.
And here you have anopportunity to do that and to be
(25:25):
more than you were before, andyou can take it or leave it,
what you want to do with it inlife.
But I do find even people indeep grief, I've had people that
were in deep grief, peoplegoing through um healing from
traumas, that when they wouldcome to an improv class, you
would think they would not beable to focus.
But in fact, it's the opposite.
The way we use our brain andthe relationship focus of improv
(25:50):
for that period of time takesus out of the suffering.
It's not that the suffering isgone, it takes us to it shifts
us out of it into the creativemind.
So we're not protecting againstthe pain, nor are we in the
pain.
We're in this other set of umpsychological skills and
(26:15):
energies, I guess the best wayto put it.
It sounds a little new agey,but it's a it's a it's a
psychological space where we'refocused on uh the other people
that we're with and usingourselves in a way that is so
unusual that you that it justputs that other thing to the
(26:36):
side.
I remember when my my uh in2014, my husband had a
life-threatening illness, had togo through a very big surgery.
It was scary, and we were tolda lot of things to be prepared
for.
So going into it, I was didn'tknow if my life was going to
(26:56):
change in a major way uh andbecome much more stressful, and
I was gonna lose something thatI'd had for a long time.
I didn't know.
We didn't know how he was gonnacome through it.
And I was in a three-hourimprov class from one to four on
Mondays.
And I would remember the firsttime I went to that class after
we got this diagnosis, and Ifelt so guilty and so dumb.
(27:19):
Why am I doing this?
What like this is not where Ishould be.
I should be, I don't, I didn'tknow what I should, I just
didn't think it didn't feelright.
During that three hours, Iforgot all about my troubles.
After the three hours, ofcourse I remembered my troubles.
(27:39):
And I had more energy for them.
I had more to bring to it, Ihad more resilience.
And I think of it this way thatyour life is gonna be filled
with troubles and struggles.
And you say, as we get older,of course, there are more
because we know more people,there are more losses, illnesses
(28:02):
start to happen, things likethis.
And think of your your life asa room and the troubles, the
room is filling up with water.
And comedy or improv doesn'thave to be comedy, but improv
can often become comedy.
But creative improvisationalexperiences are like a bubble
where you're riding that rise ofwater.
(28:24):
You're not denying it, you'rejust not drowning in it, you
know.
Beverley Glazer (28:31):
So you're giving yourself a break, just a
little bit of break, a break ofcreativity.
One last thing, what messagewould you give to help women
just find their joy?
Jude Treder-Wolff (28:45):
For women to find their joy, first
friendships, connections, maketime for your friends.
I think for my life, becauseI've been very poor in my life,
I've been alone at times, youknow, when where I really was on
my own, like in, you know, onmy own without family support or
(29:08):
without, and it was always anetwork of friends, sort of a
cosmic net, whether they werenearby or I had to connect them
by phone.
Friendships are theinfrastructure of our emotional
safety net.
So to find joy, talk aboutyourself with other people, with
(29:28):
but with other women who getyou.
Find people who get you andprotect that relationship if you
if you can find them.
Try new things.
I think joy comes fromdiscovery.
I mean, you we know what makesus happy, and of course, we have
to do the things we should dothe things that we know reliably
will uplift.
(29:49):
For me, it's music, theater,comedy.
I love that stuff, and itreliably will give me the energy
that I need to cope.
Um, for For some people, it'spainting, nature, oh love, you
know, love going into nature.
Um, and so my particularprescription, just being me,
because everybody has to findtheir their own path, is I say
(30:11):
tap into something new inyourself and find a lot of
support for it.
And that can bring joy, even inthe darkest of times.
And joy gives us resilience forthe hard things.
Yes.
Beverley Glazer (30:28):
Thank you.
Thank you, Jude.
Jude Trader Wolf is atherapist, a storyteller, and an
improv coach who helps peoplerediscover confidence and
creativity at any stage of life.
She is a moth story slam winnerand host of the hit show Mostly
True Things.
She's performed on PBS storiesfor the stage, Risk, and the
(30:53):
Story Collider.
And through her company lifestage, she blends psychology,
humor, and storytelling intolife's challenging moments.
And she can challenge anyoneinto growth, connection, and
purpose.
And here are a few takeawaysfrom this episode.
Life doesn't follow a script.
(31:15):
Stop trying to control it.
Creativity connects you to yourdreams and taking chances.
And when you share your ownstory, you help someone believe
in their story too.
If you've been relating to thisepisode, here are a few actions
that you can take for yourselfright now.
Do something spontaneous.
(31:35):
Sing, doodle, laugh, or for noreason at all, just act a little
crazy.
Share a story from your life,tell a friend, write a journal,
and notice how it changes yourperspective.
And say yes to something thatyou never do and be curious
instead of trying to control it.
(31:57):
For similar episodes on thepower of creativity, check out
episodes 120 and 126 of Agingwith Purpose and Passion.
And you might also enjoyWellness Wednesdays, which is
hosted by gerontologist SallyDuplantier.
These webinars that featuretopics about healthy aging,
(32:18):
visit MyZingLife.com to learnmore.
And so, Jude, where can peoplefind you and where can you share
your links so they can find youafter the show?
Jude Treder-Wolff (32:31):
I'll show that in one second.
I just want to say yoursummation is genius.
It was absolutely beautiful tohear your summation.
Thank you so much for that.
Those takeaways were so great.
I have a podcast called Improvin Real Life.
And on that podcast, there'slots of in-depth conversations
about applications of improv toreal life.
And there's exercises we dotogether, the guest and myself,
(32:54):
that people can just do withtheir friends or their kids or
their spouse, and you can justpractice in your real life
tapping into the spontaneity.
So I hope you'll take a listento improv in real life.
Um, I'm on Instagram aslifestage underscore inc,
Facebook, Jude Wolf, LinkedIn,JudeWolf.
That's about it.
(33:15):
And my website.
Well, my websites arelifestage.me and
judeTreadderwolf.com.
Beverley Glazer (33:22):
Perfect.
And all Jude's links and allthis information, they're going
to be in the show notes.
And they're also going to be onmy site too.
That's reinventimpossible.com.
And so, my friends, what's nextfor you?
Are you just going through themotions or are you living a life
that you truly love?
Get my free guide to go fromstuck to unstoppable.
(33:45):
And where do you think theyare?
Yep, they're in the show notes.
You can connect with me,Beverley Glazer, on all social
media platforms and in mypositive group of women on
Facebook.
That's Women Over50 Rock.
And thank you for listening.
Have you enjoyed thisconversation?
Please subscribe and help usspread the word by dropping a
(34:08):
review and sending it to afriend.
And remember, you only have onelife.
So live it with purpose andpassion.
Announcer (34:22):
Thank you for joining us.
You can connect with Bev on herwebsite,
reinventimpossible.com.
And while you're there, joinour newsletter.
Subscribe so you don't miss anepisode.
Until next time, keep agingwith purpose and passion.
And celebrate life.
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