September 10, 2025 • 28 mins
The fastest-growing group facing homelessness today? Women over 50. In this episode, we reimagine what housing and financial security could look like when profit meets purpose. Dionne Payn, founder of Women for Housing, shares how ethical property investing and social impact real estate are creating affordable housing solutions and pathways to midlife financial resilience. Whether you’ve feared outliving your money, struggled to see homeownership as possible, or want your investments to align with your values, this conversation offers fresh hope, practical tools, and new ways forward.
Dionne’s own reinvention — from her Jamaican Pentecostal roots in the UK to becoming a global leader in ethical property investment — makes her mission even more powerful. She proves that investing with purpose can deliver strong returns while also creating community housing solutions that change lives.
Through collective models like community homeownership, intergenerational living, and collaborative land acquisitions, Dionne shows how women traditionally excluded from the market can access financial independence and long-term security.
If you’ve ever worried about your financial future in midlife or wondered whether you’ll be secure in the years ahead, this conversation offers practical strategies, fresh perspectives, and inspiring possibilities .
🎧 Ready to rethink what homeownership and investing can look like for women? Listen in — and check out Dionne’s book Ethical Property Investing on Amazon or visit women4homes.com to be part of the solution.
Resources & Links -
For similar episodes on financial empowerment, check out episodes 118 and 134 of Aging with Purpose and Passion. And if you're a caregiver navigating the challenges of caring for a loved one with dementia, I highly recommend that you listen to Fading Memories. This podcast will give you insights and guidance on communicating, managing stress, navigating grief and loss and prioritizing the wellbeing of both caregivers and those they love.
Dionne Payn – Founder of Women4Homes
📧 Email: dionne@women4homes.com
🌐 Website
📘 Facebook
📸 Instagram
Beverley Glazer – Transformation Coach & Host of Aging with Purpose and Passion
📧 Email: Bev@reinventImpossible.com
🌐 Website
💼 LinkedIn
📘 Facebook
👥 Women Over 50 Rock Group
📸 Instagram
🎁 BONUS: Take your first step to clarity, courage and momentum. Your free checklist: → From Stuck to Unstoppable – is here.
https://reinvent-impossible.aweb.page/from-stuck-to-unstoppable
Have feedback or a powerful story that's worth telling? Contact us at info@Reinventimpossible.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to Aging with Purpose and Passion, the
podcast designed to inspire yourgreatness and thrive through
life.
Get ready to conquer your fears.
Here's your hostpsychotherapist, coach and
empowerment expert, BeverlyGlazer psychotherapist, coach
(00:30):
and empowerment expert, BeverlyGlazer.
Beverley Glazer (00:38):
Why is homelessness hitting women over
50 more than ever before?
Welcome to Aging with Purposeand Passion, the podcast for
women over 50 who are ready tostop settling and live life on
their own terms.
Each week, you'll hear rawconversations, inspiring stories
and get practical tools to helpyou reignite your own fire.
I'm Beverly Glazer, areinvention catalyst for women
(00:59):
who are ready to keep raisingthe bar, and you can find me on
reinventimpossiblecom.
Dionne Payne didn't set out tobe a property developer.
She set out to solve a crisis.
Dionne is the founder and CEOof Women for Housing, a social
impact company tackling the rootof homelessness for women by
(01:22):
creating affordable, sustainablehousing and low-risk
opportunities for propertyinvestment.
Dionne has raised over $45million for ethical developments
and helped over 40 investorsearn double-digit returns.
She is a number one Amazonbest-selling author of ethical
(01:45):
property investing and atrailblazing advocate for
financial security for womenwho've been underserved for far
too long.
But this episode is not justabout real estate.
It's about claiming your powerand your self-worth.
So keep listening.
Welcome, dionne.
Dionne Payn (02:06):
Welcome.
Thank you, Beverley, it'swonderful to be here.
You're in.
Beverley Glazer (02:10):
Australia.
Dionne Payn (02:12):
That's right.
Beverley Glazer (02:13):
And you were brought up in the UK a
completely different place andfrom a Pentecostal family.
And what was life like livingin a Pentecostal family in the
UK?
Dionne Payn (02:31):
Interesting.
That's how I would start.
Look, there were some reallywonderful things about it.
The Pentecostal church that wewere in there was a big
community, a big church goingcommunity and, overlaid on that,
my family and and a lot of thechurch community were migrated
(02:52):
from Jamaica to the UK.
So I had both the, the religionand the culture, which was a
really beautiful mix.
And, and so my childhood I justremember lots of celebration and
togetherness and community, andI remember when I moved away, I
did actually miss that, but youknow, and no childhood is ever
(03:14):
perfect, right so I remember myparents being very strict and
loving and, you know, absolutelywanting the best for all of us
as children and you know,absolutely wanting the best for
all of us as children.
But, yeah, they were strict andI, yeah, look, I remember just
having a pretty good childhood,full of love, full of community,
(03:37):
full of celebration.
And, yeah, on the side of thechurch, I do remember I got to a
point where I just, you know, Iwas sort of in my mid-teens and
I wanted to party and enjoylife and church seemed to be
restricting that, so I ended upleaving church.
Beverley Glazer (04:02):
But still in terms of the community.
It was one thing that Idefinitely missed when I left
and in your 20s and 30s.
Dionne Payn (04:09):
What was life like for you?
Good, good.
I went to university.
I met my husband my now husbandwhen I was in my early 20s.
We moved to Australia and Icontinued studying here.
I remember when I first came toAustralia, we landed in
Brisbane and a friend of oursthat we'd gone to university
(04:30):
with when we were in the UK.
He was living there and hebrought us down to Byron Bay and
I just remember thinking thisis heaven, this is just the most
beautiful place that I've everbeen, and when we realized that
we could stay, we made thechoice.
I remember asking my husbandcan we stay?
And everything just fell intoplace.
(04:50):
And so we've been here eversince, not directly in Byron Bay
, but just in the outskirts ofit.
And it's a beautiful location,a wonderful community.
It's lush and green, it's fullof nature, and when it came time
for us to have children whichwe started in our early 30s I
just felt so grateful that wecould do that in an environment
(05:13):
like this.
Beverley Glazer (05:15):
So when were you attracted to this cult that
you said that you were in?
Oh, that was a reallyinteresting story.
So I and you know it comes backto that sense of community and
wanting that sense of communitythat we're doing good things.
And I just remember I was at apoint in my life where and it
(05:38):
was when I started propertydevelopment actually and I just
remember the first big projectthat I had and I was hitting
brick walls and, you know,everything was kind of in place
but it wasn't quite working.
I remember going to a networkingevent and meeting somebody who
just I don't know, there wassomething really beautiful about
(05:59):
her and I just rememberthinking I want whatever she's
got.
And we got talking and she toldme about a course that was
happening in a couple ofweekends' time.
And I went along to the courseand I remember, you know, I was
still sort of in this, like I'mhitting a brick wall.
I know that, like I said,everything's there, everything's
in place, but there's somethinghere that's not working.
And so, you know, I did thisweekend course and after that
(06:22):
weekend course everything fellinto place because I discovered
a limiting belief that I had,and so from that point I was
hooked.
I was like, oh my gosh, this isthe best thing ever.
And so I still, you know, Ikept going, I kept going along
and I ended up.
I did a number of courses.
I ended up teaching otherpeople and the teachings are
(06:42):
really beautiful.
Teaching other people and theteachings are really beautiful,
um, but the, the I would call ita, a spiritual multi-level
marketing scheme.
So you kind of get in andyou're um, you're inducted and
your responsibility is to get asmany people as you can
underneath you.
Um, and all the money's goingto the top, the top, and as
(07:04):
somebody in that I saw verylittle of that.
So it was a period of my lifewhere it was quite confusing,
actually, because I knew thatthe techniques worked, but at a
certain because otherwise Iwouldn't have continued with it
had it not Sorry, I should say Iwouldn't have started with it
(07:24):
had it not.
But at some point there was a,there was a definite shift in me
using the techniques to thetechniques being used against me
and and it took you know, I wasinvolved in it for four years
the pandemic hits and and youknow, sort of it petered off,
which was great.
And then, and then, about fouryears later, I realized what it
(07:44):
was and you know, sort of havingspoken to some people that had
also left and, you know, for methe pennies fell into place.
But the biggest thing for methat came out of that was when I
asked the question well, whydid I override the red flags in
myself that you know, I saw atthe beginning, the red flags in
(08:05):
myself that you know, I saw atthe beginning.
And the answer to that was thatI'd been trained to place my
power outside of myself.
So, rather than looking atmyself for the answers, I'd been
trained into, you know, sort ofseeking the answers from
somebody higher than me.
And once I got that realization,I just went ah, so you know,
(08:28):
and I'd been doing otherspiritual courses after I left
the cult and just realized that,yeah, the answers are in me and
I can, you know, sort of gowithin for that guidance and you
know, in terms of what I want.
So it was really powerful.
And what's interesting was, atthe same time that I made that
realization about the cult andabout the giving of my power was
(08:50):
the same time that Women forHomes, the company, actually
landed for me in terms of thisis something that I need to do.
So quite spooky how it happened, but quite beautiful in the
sense of that time wasn't wasted, and so something really
beautiful has come out of that.
(09:11):
When did you see that there was a problem for
women over 50, for older women,for property?
Where did you see there wasthat gap?
Dionne Payn (09:20):
Oh, all the way through my developing career.
So I started in 2013, which wasour first development, and you
know it was really small.
It was a subdivision and arenovation and we did a number
of those.
So that first three projects Ididn't really see it.
It wasn't until I did theaffordable housing project,
(09:41):
which was about four projects in, and I didn't do it because it
was an affordable housingproject, which was about four
projects in, and I didn't do itbecause it was an affordable
housing project initially.
I did it because I looked at itand I looked at the scale of it
and I was ready to do somethinga bit bigger than I'd done
before and my whole thought waswow, we're going to make a mozza
out of this.
Mozza is an Australian word forlots of money, right.
(10:03):
So I just thought, oh, wow,like we're going to do really
well financially out of thisproject.
Um, and so the way that itworked was that the homes were.
I'd calculated that we couldsell the homes for $350,000.
When we were doing in the areaitself, most homes were selling
(10:31):
for $600,000 or $650,000.
So I remember the very firstthing I did once we'd secured
the site we hadn't bought it,but we just put an option across
the property so that it meantthat we had the right but we
weren't obligated to buy it.
But once we'd secured the land,I then went and put a post out
(10:52):
on Facebook, actually to myfriend group, and said, hey, I'm
thinking of doing this project,is there any interest?
Because I really needed to knowbefore we went.
You know, signed the piece ofpaper but it was going to sell,
and the very first person thatresponded to me was a friend of
mine and she had recently comeinto inheritance.
It was tiny but it was enoughto get her into one of these.
(11:14):
So, you know, for her it wasquite scary because it was the
first property she'd ever boughtand she was on her own.
For me it was quite scarybecause it was, you know, the
first time I'd done anythingthis big.
But you know, talking about the, because it was, you know, the
first time I'd done anythingthis big.
But you know, talking about thecult.
It was actually that weekendworkshop that I did where I said
everything came together, Ifound the partners, I found the
(11:35):
first client, and it just feltlike everything was on a roll,
and so for me at that time itwas like, okay, this is
fantastic, this is what I needto do.
So the very first time to goback to your question that I
realized that there was aproblem was when that friend of
mine came on board and I thought, oh well, if she's struggling
(11:57):
to find something that she canafford, who else is out there
that's struggling?
And and from that project wehad nurses and teachers and
paramedics that were able topurchase those properties.
Three of the homes were forsocial housing, so they had to
be managed by a housing providerthat specialises in providing
(12:18):
social housing for people withlow incomes, and so it all just
came together really beautifullythat three of those homes were
for social housing, so we knewthat very low income people were
being served by that, and atleast two of those were women.
I knew that and just alsorecognising that for single
(12:39):
women at that time it was reallyhard and it was just by grace
that my friend who was the onlyperson that I knew in that
development, but it was by gracethat she had the means to be
able to get into something likethat.
So that was the first time thatI realized it, but it was when
I was and I actually saw it aswell during the pandemic and I
(13:01):
did a bit of surveying of womenin my local community.
I remember hearing somebody thatwas saying look, I'm looking
for a home.
The only things that I canafford at the moment will be 80%
of my rent.
I need to have medication.
I can't afford to pay rent andbuy medication.
I don't know what I'm going todo.
And I just kept hearing thatkind of story repeated again and
(13:24):
again and again, to the pointof I heard that story about this
time last week as well.
So, yeah, homelessness, thehomelessness problem for older
women is it's increased sincethe pandemic and it was probably
going on before then and I justdidn't have the awareness of it
and but it's certainly notgetting any better.
(13:47):
I talk with community housingproviders and I was with one
early this week and they'recelebrating because they've got,
you know, homes for 20, 30, 60people and it's like that's
fantastic and I'm not knockingthe achievement at all, it
really is fantastic.
But we have a backlog ofthousands of women, thousands of
(14:08):
thousands of families.
Beverley Glazer (14:09):
So, um, yeah, this is a really significant
problem yes, but people whoinvest in property Dion, they're
doing this as an investment.
They want to make money, and sowhat do you tell to those
investors?
How will they be able to makemoney if they're going to be
(14:30):
investing in social housing?
Dionne Payn (14:34):
So that's a really great question, and I the thing
that just sort of came to mejust then was that if all of the
property investors around theworld invested into affordable
and sustainable housing, wewould not have a housing crisis.
We just wouldn't.
So the what we're dealing withhere is a shift in paradigm from
(14:59):
business as usual, which isn'tworking, to property investment
in a way that serves people andplanet.
And we can absolutely do that,and that's why I talk about, you
know, women for Homes.
We will inspire a million womento invest $5,000 to end
homelessness by 2030, whilstbeing financially empowered
(15:21):
along the way.
And that bit is important,because we're not talking about
charity.
There is absolutely a place forcharity, but what I see is that
lots of charities are, you know, it's very competitive for
donations, and so charities arefighting amongst the scraps, and
so charities are fightingamongst the scraps.
Again, I'm not disregarding orputting down any of the
(15:43):
charities that are doing thisimportant work, because in these
communities, it's reallyimportant, but what I'm seeing
is that charities are stretchedand they're not able to service
the number of people that theyneed to.
So the model that I'm talkingabout it's a win-win-win.
It's a win for propertyinvestors, and particularly for
women, because they're notmissing out on the property
(16:06):
investment gains.
They're still getting thosegood returns.
It's a win for the tenantsbecause they're then able to pay
an affordable rent, which thenhelps them to get out of crisis
into stability, into being ableto thrive.
And it's a win for society atlarge as well, because when we
have people that can afford tolive in homes that do offer them
(16:29):
dignity, we have a much bettersociety.
When we have that, you know,the gap between the haves and
the have-nots ever widening, thegap between the haves and the
have-nots ever widening, and thehave-nots and I'm just using
that word because it's a wordthat we use in our common
(16:52):
vernacular so the have-nots thenjust feeling resentful and
disenfranchised and that's justnot a great society to be living
in.
So if we want a cohesivesociety, we have to address that
inequality.
Now to get back to your questionspecifically how do we make it
happen?
It's using all of the leversthat we have access to.
So we have access to governmentfunding, we have access to
philanthropy.
(17:12):
Those organizations are puttingmoney into these kinds of
projects on a large scalebecause they recognize that they
need to.
They absolutely need to, butbecause they're putting the
money in on a large scale andthe amount of money or the
amount of interest that they'recharging on that money is really
low.
That's where the opportunity isfor investors to fill that gap
(17:36):
and to get the good returns.
Because the thing about propertydevelopment and property
development 101, which is what Ilearned back in the day was you
need to make sure that you havea minimum of a 20% profit
margin when you do a developmentIn this economic climate.
You need to make sure that it'sat least 25% to 30%, because it
(17:57):
only takes a period ofprolonged bad weather and your
margins slip.
It takes, you know, a supplychain disruption your margins
slip.
It takes your builder to breakhis leg, which happened to me on
my project your margins slip.
So, yeah, it's basicallydevelopers up until now have
(18:20):
taken the risk and they're notwilling to share the reward and,
to be fair, I don't reallyblame them.
You know there's a bit of acharacter of developers and some
of them are complete, not verynice people and just focused on
the profit.
However, what I want to say isthat I don't blame developers
(18:42):
for not wanting to share theprofit, because they've taken
all the risk, and it's a bigrisk and any project can just
take them out.
But what happens if we sharethat risk?
So we share that risk with thegovernment, we share that risk
with philanthropy.
We share that risk witheveryday investors, not just the
wealthy, everyday investors.
We share that risk with theinvestors, not just the wealthy,
everyday investors.
We share that risk with thedevelopers as well, so that
(19:03):
everybody gets to benefit.
And that is the way that youprovide affordable and
sustainable homes that peoplefeel good about being in, and
and then the tenants get tobenefit from that as well,
because everybody's likedevelopers are not trying to
extract the last little bit, andso that the tenants are the
ones that end up falling shortyeah.
Beverley Glazer (19:24):
So basically that feeling when you have a
home that you can call your own,you feel so very empowered.
And what can you do to tellpeople women in, who couldn't
imagine that they wouldn't bepaying rent that they actually
have this ground, that this istheirs, they own it and they're
(19:48):
putting money down?
How can you advise them tostart saving or to realize, even
with their minimal savings orperhaps an inheritance or
something that they can start,that there is promise there?
What can you tell them?
Dionne Payn (20:10):
There's a graph that I saw recently and it talks
about house prices.
So I'll just do this.
So you've got wage growth onthis angle and then you've got
house prices here.
(20:30):
So the gap between wage growthand house price increases is
just widening and widening, andwidening and there's just no way
that it's going to come backand come back to an equilibrium.
So for my friend who purchasedher property for $330,000, she
(20:53):
was able to sell that propertyfive years later for $600,000.
So that is a $270,000 increasein five years that she would not
have got from just working ajob.
That is why property is sotransformative and everybody
needs to get on this train, Ibelieve, in some way shape or
(21:14):
form.
So how do you do that?
There's lots of different ways.
One of things about um growingup in a Jamaican family and a
you know sort of church, umchurch community was that sense
of helping each other.
And I remember my grandparentswhen they first arrived from
sorry, I don't remember becauseI wasn't there, but I remember
(21:35):
the story of when they came fromJamaica to the UK and they were
in a position where theycouldn't afford to buy a home.
The community worked togetherto buy the home and then that
gave them the opportunity tohelp somebody else buy the home
and the opportunity to helpsomebody else buy the home, and
it was that sharing and thatworking together that made it
(21:57):
work.
And what I feel is theopportunity in this housing
crisis is for that to come backin, for us to be working
together to make it work.
So I think I look at thingslike okay, sorry, I just had a
bit of a mental black, but Ilook at things like two sisters,
(22:21):
for example, and a mortgagebroker that I know was sharing
that two sisters came to her.
They'd both divorced, both hadvery little out of the divorce
settlement.
They came together.
They didn't think it waspossible, but they came together
and they purchased a home andthe mortgage broker helped them
to do that.
So it's that sharing.
You know, we've got ageneration now where kids cannot
(22:45):
move out of home because theycannot get onto the property
ladder.
I think this is a fantasticopportunity to explore
intergenerational living wherewe're not living on top of each
other, but we are sharingresources in a space that feels
really good for us to be in.
So there's, you know, there's,you know, even not even family
(23:06):
members coming together, friendscoming together, small
communities coming together andpurchasing land and building
something for themselves.
So there's so many ways to makeit happen.
I am very privileged to havecome through this development
pathway to understand that thereare creative strategies to make
things work, and so my realmission is sharing that
(23:30):
information, expanding people'sawareness to what is possible.
There is the practicality of,yes, you do need money to get
started, but it doesn'tnecessarily need to be your
money either, and so there'sreally creative ways that people
can come together and sharethose resources.
For some people it might betime, for some people it might
(23:50):
be money, for some people itmight be connections, but this
is the opportunity that we haveto come together and just go.
How are we going to make thiswork?
Because the old system is notworking.
It is dying.
It's time for a new system tobe born.
Beverley Glazer (24:06):
Awesome, diane, awesome.
So the message here and I telleverybody listening is to read
Diane Dionne's book.
Dionne Payne is the founder andCEO of Women for Housing, a
social impact company tacklingthe root of homelessness for
women by creating affordable,sustainable housing with low
(24:28):
property investment.
Dionne has raised more than $45billion for ethical
developments and has helped over40 investors earn double-digit
returns.
She is the number one Amazonbest-selling author of ethical
development.
(24:48):
I'm tripping all over my words,but listen people.
Ethical property investing butethical property investing, by
the way, is each individualletter E-T-H-I-C-A-L property
investing.
And she's also a trailblazingadvocate for financial security
(25:10):
for women who have beenunderserved for much too long.
Here's some takeaways from thisepisode long.
Here's some takeaways from thisepisode.
Financial empowerment startswith awareness, education and
asking questions.
Please keep asking for help andface up to your situation
(25:31):
powerfully.
You can always find a way torebuild if you believe that you
can.
If you've been relating to thisepisode, here are a few actions
that you could take right now.
Audit your finances, get clearon what you own, what you owe,
what you earn and what you spend.
Awareness gives you power anddon't wait for the system to
(25:53):
save you.
Take one small step to buildingyour own resources.
It's never too late to startnow For similar episodes on
financial empowerment.
Please check out episodes 118and 134 of Aging with Purpose
and Passion.
And if you're a caregivernavigating the challenges of
(26:14):
caring for a loved one withdementia, I highly recommend
that you listen to FadingMemories, a podcast that will
give you insights and guidanceon communicating and managing
stress and navigating grief andloss, and prioritizing your own
well-being and the caregiving ofyour loved one.
(26:37):
Fading Memory podcast offersessential tools for anyone
facing disability and chronicillness, and please check out
the links, because they're alsoin the show notes.
So, Dionne, where can peoplelearn more about you and buy
your book?
Dionne Payn (26:54):
Oh, fantastic.
Well, the book is available onAmazon and and the.
My website is wwwwomen4homescom, and it's so women number four,
homescom, and I'm also veryactive on LinkedIn, so anybody
(27:15):
can search my name and andconnect with me that way as well
.
Beverley Glazer (27:18):
So anybody can search my name and connect with
me that way as well.
Terrific, Dionne's links are inthe show notes and they'll also
be on my site, too.
That's reinventimpossiblecom.
And so, my friends, what's nextfor you?
Are you just going through themotions or are you living the
life that you truly love?
Please get my free guide to gofrom stuck to unstoppable, and
(27:40):
guess where that is.
That's in the show notes, too.
You can connect with me,Beverly Glazer, on all social
media platforms and in mypositive group on women on
Facebook, that is Women Over 50Rock, and thank you for
listening.
Have you enjoyed thisconversation?
Please subscribe to help usspread the word by dropping a
(28:03):
review and sending it out to afriend.
And remember you only have onelife, so live it with purpose
and passion.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Thank you for joining us.
You can connect with Bev on herwebsite, reinventimpossiblecom
and, while you're there, joinour newsletter Subscribe so you
don't miss an episode.
Until next time, keep agingwith purpose and passion and
celebrate life.
Welcome to Aging with Purpose and Passion, the
podcast designed to inspire yourgreatness and thrive through
life.
Get ready to conquer your fears.
Here's your hostpsychotherapist, coach and
empowerment expert, BeverlyGlazer psychotherapist, coach
(00:30):
and empowerment expert, BeverlyGlazer.
Beverley Glazer (00:38):
Why is homelessness hitting women over
50 more than ever before?
Welcome to Aging with Purposeand Passion, the podcast for
women over 50 who are ready tostop settling and live life on
their own terms.
Each week, you'll hear rawconversations, inspiring stories
and get practical tools to helpyou reignite your own fire.
I'm Beverly Glazer, areinvention catalyst for women
(00:59):
who are ready to keep raisingthe bar, and you can find me on
reinventimpossiblecom.
Dionne Payne didn't set out tobe a property developer.
She set out to solve a crisis.
Dionne is the founder and CEOof Women for Housing, a social
impact company tackling the rootof homelessness for women by
(01:22):
creating affordable, sustainablehousing and low-risk
opportunities for propertyinvestment.
Dionne has raised over $45million for ethical developments
and helped over 40 investorsearn double-digit returns.
She is a number one Amazonbest-selling author of ethical
(01:45):
property investing and atrailblazing advocate for
financial security for womenwho've been underserved for far
too long.
But this episode is not justabout real estate.
It's about claiming your powerand your self-worth.
So keep listening.
Welcome, dionne.
Dionne Payn (02:06):
Welcome.
Thank you, Beverley, it'swonderful to be here.
You're in.
Beverley Glazer (02:10):
Australia.
Dionne Payn (02:12):
That's right.
Beverley Glazer (02:13):
And you were brought up in the UK a
completely different place andfrom a Pentecostal family.
And what was life like livingin a Pentecostal family in the
UK?
Dionne Payn (02:31):
Interesting.
That's how I would start.
Look, there were some reallywonderful things about it.
The Pentecostal church that wewere in there was a big
community, a big church goingcommunity and, overlaid on that,
my family and and a lot of thechurch community were migrated
(02:52):
from Jamaica to the UK.
So I had both the, the religionand the culture, which was a
really beautiful mix.
And, and so my childhood I justremember lots of celebration and
togetherness and community, andI remember when I moved away, I
did actually miss that, but youknow, and no childhood is ever
(03:14):
perfect, right so I remember myparents being very strict and
loving and, you know, absolutelywanting the best for all of us
as children and you know,absolutely wanting the best for
all of us as children.
But, yeah, they were strict andI, yeah, look, I remember just
having a pretty good childhood,full of love, full of community,
(03:37):
full of celebration.
And, yeah, on the side of thechurch, I do remember I got to a
point where I just, you know, Iwas sort of in my mid-teens and
I wanted to party and enjoylife and church seemed to be
restricting that, so I ended upleaving church.
Beverley Glazer (04:02):
But still in terms of the community.
It was one thing that Idefinitely missed when I left
and in your 20s and 30s.
Dionne Payn (04:09):
What was life like for you?
Good, good.
I went to university.
I met my husband my now husbandwhen I was in my early 20s.
We moved to Australia and Icontinued studying here.
I remember when I first came toAustralia, we landed in
Brisbane and a friend of oursthat we'd gone to university
(04:30):
with when we were in the UK.
He was living there and hebrought us down to Byron Bay and
I just remember thinking thisis heaven, this is just the most
beautiful place that I've everbeen, and when we realized that
we could stay, we made thechoice.
I remember asking my husbandcan we stay?
And everything just fell intoplace.
(04:50):
And so we've been here eversince, not directly in Byron Bay
, but just in the outskirts ofit.
And it's a beautiful location,a wonderful community.
It's lush and green, it's fullof nature, and when it came time
for us to have children whichwe started in our early 30s I
just felt so grateful that wecould do that in an environment
(05:13):
like this.
Beverley Glazer (05:15):
So when were you attracted to this cult that
you said that you were in?
Oh, that was a reallyinteresting story.
So I and you know it comes backto that sense of community and
wanting that sense of communitythat we're doing good things.
And I just remember I was at apoint in my life where and it
(05:38):
was when I started propertydevelopment actually and I just
remember the first big projectthat I had and I was hitting
brick walls and, you know,everything was kind of in place
but it wasn't quite working.
I remember going to a networkingevent and meeting somebody who
just I don't know, there wassomething really beautiful about
(05:59):
her and I just rememberthinking I want whatever she's
got.
And we got talking and she toldme about a course that was
happening in a couple ofweekends' time.
And I went along to the courseand I remember, you know, I was
still sort of in this, like I'mhitting a brick wall.
I know that, like I said,everything's there, everything's
in place, but there's somethinghere that's not working.
And so, you know, I did thisweekend course and after that
(06:22):
weekend course everything fellinto place because I discovered
a limiting belief that I had,and so from that point I was
hooked.
I was like, oh my gosh, this isthe best thing ever.
And so I still, you know, Ikept going, I kept going along
and I ended up.
I did a number of courses.
I ended up teaching otherpeople and the teachings are
(06:42):
really beautiful.
Teaching other people and theteachings are really beautiful,
um, but the, the I would call ita, a spiritual multi-level
marketing scheme.
So you kind of get in andyou're um, you're inducted and
your responsibility is to get asmany people as you can
underneath you.
Um, and all the money's goingto the top, the top, and as
(07:04):
somebody in that I saw verylittle of that.
So it was a period of my lifewhere it was quite confusing,
actually, because I knew thatthe techniques worked, but at a
certain because otherwise Iwouldn't have continued with it
had it not Sorry, I should say Iwouldn't have started with it
(07:24):
had it not.
But at some point there was a,there was a definite shift in me
using the techniques to thetechniques being used against me
and and it took you know, I wasinvolved in it for four years
the pandemic hits and and youknow, sort of it petered off,
which was great.
And then, and then, about fouryears later, I realized what it
(07:44):
was and you know, sort of havingspoken to some people that had
also left and, you know, for methe pennies fell into place.
But the biggest thing for methat came out of that was when I
asked the question well, whydid I override the red flags in
myself that you know, I saw atthe beginning, the red flags in
(08:05):
myself that you know, I saw atthe beginning.
And the answer to that was thatI'd been trained to place my
power outside of myself.
So, rather than looking atmyself for the answers, I'd been
trained into, you know, sort ofseeking the answers from
somebody higher than me.
And once I got that realization,I just went ah, so you know,
(08:28):
and I'd been doing otherspiritual courses after I left
the cult and just realized that,yeah, the answers are in me and
I can, you know, sort of gowithin for that guidance and you
know, in terms of what I want.
So it was really powerful.
And what's interesting was, atthe same time that I made that
realization about the cult andabout the giving of my power was
(08:50):
the same time that Women forHomes, the company, actually
landed for me in terms of thisis something that I need to do.
So quite spooky how it happened, but quite beautiful in the
sense of that time wasn't wasted, and so something really
beautiful has come out of that.
(09:11):
When did you see that there was a problem for
women over 50, for older women,for property?
Where did you see there wasthat gap?
Dionne Payn (09:20):
Oh, all the way through my developing career.
So I started in 2013, which wasour first development, and you
know it was really small.
It was a subdivision and arenovation and we did a number
of those.
So that first three projects Ididn't really see it.
It wasn't until I did theaffordable housing project,
(09:41):
which was about four projects in, and I didn't do it because it
was an affordable housingproject, which was about four
projects in, and I didn't do itbecause it was an affordable
housing project initially.
I did it because I looked at itand I looked at the scale of it
and I was ready to do somethinga bit bigger than I'd done
before and my whole thought waswow, we're going to make a mozza
out of this.
Mozza is an Australian word forlots of money, right.
(10:03):
So I just thought, oh, wow,like we're going to do really
well financially out of thisproject.
Um, and so the way that itworked was that the homes were.
I'd calculated that we couldsell the homes for $350,000.
When we were doing in the areaitself, most homes were selling
(10:31):
for $600,000 or $650,000.
So I remember the very firstthing I did once we'd secured
the site we hadn't bought it,but we just put an option across
the property so that it meantthat we had the right but we
weren't obligated to buy it.
But once we'd secured the land,I then went and put a post out
(10:52):
on Facebook, actually to myfriend group, and said, hey, I'm
thinking of doing this project,is there any interest?
Because I really needed to knowbefore we went.
You know, signed the piece ofpaper but it was going to sell,
and the very first person thatresponded to me was a friend of
mine and she had recently comeinto inheritance.
It was tiny but it was enoughto get her into one of these.
(11:14):
So, you know, for her it wasquite scary because it was the
first property she'd ever boughtand she was on her own.
For me it was quite scarybecause it was, you know, the
first time I'd done anythingthis big.
But you know, talking about the, because it was, you know, the
first time I'd done anythingthis big.
But you know, talking about thecult.
It was actually that weekendworkshop that I did where I said
everything came together, Ifound the partners, I found the
(11:35):
first client, and it just feltlike everything was on a roll,
and so for me at that time itwas like, okay, this is
fantastic, this is what I needto do.
So the very first time to goback to your question that I
realized that there was aproblem was when that friend of
mine came on board and I thought, oh well, if she's struggling
(11:57):
to find something that she canafford, who else is out there
that's struggling?
And and from that project wehad nurses and teachers and
paramedics that were able topurchase those properties.
Three of the homes were forsocial housing, so they had to
be managed by a housing providerthat specialises in providing
(12:18):
social housing for people withlow incomes, and so it all just
came together really beautifullythat three of those homes were
for social housing, so we knewthat very low income people were
being served by that, and atleast two of those were women.
I knew that and just alsorecognising that for single
(12:39):
women at that time it was reallyhard and it was just by grace
that my friend who was the onlyperson that I knew in that
development, but it was by gracethat she had the means to be
able to get into something likethat.
So that was the first time thatI realized it, but it was when
I was and I actually saw it aswell during the pandemic and I
(13:01):
did a bit of surveying of womenin my local community.
I remember hearing somebody thatwas saying look, I'm looking
for a home.
The only things that I canafford at the moment will be 80%
of my rent.
I need to have medication.
I can't afford to pay rent andbuy medication.
I don't know what I'm going todo.
And I just kept hearing thatkind of story repeated again and
(13:24):
again and again, to the pointof I heard that story about this
time last week as well.
So, yeah, homelessness, thehomelessness problem for older
women is it's increased sincethe pandemic and it was probably
going on before then and I justdidn't have the awareness of it
and but it's certainly notgetting any better.
(13:47):
I talk with community housingproviders and I was with one
early this week and they'recelebrating because they've got,
you know, homes for 20, 30, 60people and it's like that's
fantastic and I'm not knockingthe achievement at all, it
really is fantastic.
But we have a backlog ofthousands of women, thousands of
(14:08):
thousands of families.
Beverley Glazer (14:09):
So, um, yeah, this is a really significant
problem yes, but people whoinvest in property Dion, they're
doing this as an investment.
They want to make money, and sowhat do you tell to those
investors?
How will they be able to makemoney if they're going to be
(14:30):
investing in social housing?
Dionne Payn (14:34):
So that's a really great question, and I the thing
that just sort of came to mejust then was that if all of the
property investors around theworld invested into affordable
and sustainable housing, wewould not have a housing crisis.
We just wouldn't.
So the what we're dealing withhere is a shift in paradigm from
(14:59):
business as usual, which isn'tworking, to property investment
in a way that serves people andplanet.
And we can absolutely do that,and that's why I talk about, you
know, women for Homes.
We will inspire a million womento invest $5,000 to end
homelessness by 2030, whilstbeing financially empowered
(15:21):
along the way.
And that bit is important,because we're not talking about
charity.
There is absolutely a place forcharity, but what I see is that
lots of charities are, you know, it's very competitive for
donations, and so charities arefighting amongst the scraps, and
so charities are fightingamongst the scraps.
Again, I'm not disregarding orputting down any of the
(15:43):
charities that are doing thisimportant work, because in these
communities, it's reallyimportant, but what I'm seeing
is that charities are stretchedand they're not able to service
the number of people that theyneed to.
So the model that I'm talkingabout it's a win-win-win.
It's a win for propertyinvestors, and particularly for
women, because they're notmissing out on the property
(16:06):
investment gains.
They're still getting thosegood returns.
It's a win for the tenantsbecause they're then able to pay
an affordable rent, which thenhelps them to get out of crisis
into stability, into being ableto thrive.
And it's a win for society atlarge as well, because when we
have people that can afford tolive in homes that do offer them
(16:29):
dignity, we have a much bettersociety.
When we have that, you know,the gap between the haves and
the have-nots ever widening, thegap between the haves and the
have-nots ever widening, and thehave-nots and I'm just using
that word because it's a wordthat we use in our common
(16:52):
vernacular so the have-nots thenjust feeling resentful and
disenfranchised and that's justnot a great society to be living
in.
So if we want a cohesivesociety, we have to address that
inequality.
Now to get back to your questionspecifically how do we make it
happen?
It's using all of the leversthat we have access to.
So we have access to governmentfunding, we have access to
philanthropy.
(17:12):
Those organizations are puttingmoney into these kinds of
projects on a large scalebecause they recognize that they
need to.
They absolutely need to, butbecause they're putting the
money in on a large scale andthe amount of money or the
amount of interest that they'recharging on that money is really
low.
That's where the opportunity isfor investors to fill that gap
(17:36):
and to get the good returns.
Because the thing about propertydevelopment and property
development 101, which is what Ilearned back in the day was you
need to make sure that you havea minimum of a 20% profit
margin when you do a developmentIn this economic climate.
You need to make sure that it'sat least 25% to 30%, because it
(17:57):
only takes a period ofprolonged bad weather and your
margins slip.
It takes, you know, a supplychain disruption your margins
slip.
It takes your builder to breakhis leg, which happened to me on
my project your margins slip.
So, yeah, it's basicallydevelopers up until now have
(18:20):
taken the risk and they're notwilling to share the reward and,
to be fair, I don't reallyblame them.
You know there's a bit of acharacter of developers and some
of them are complete, not verynice people and just focused on
the profit.
However, what I want to say isthat I don't blame developers
(18:42):
for not wanting to share theprofit, because they've taken
all the risk, and it's a bigrisk and any project can just
take them out.
But what happens if we sharethat risk?
So we share that risk with thegovernment, we share that risk
with philanthropy.
We share that risk witheveryday investors, not just the
wealthy, everyday investors.
We share that risk with theinvestors, not just the wealthy,
everyday investors.
We share that risk with thedevelopers as well, so that
(19:03):
everybody gets to benefit.
And that is the way that youprovide affordable and
sustainable homes that peoplefeel good about being in, and
and then the tenants get tobenefit from that as well,
because everybody's likedevelopers are not trying to
extract the last little bit, andso that the tenants are the
ones that end up falling shortyeah.
Beverley Glazer (19:24):
So basically that feeling when you have a
home that you can call your own,you feel so very empowered.
And what can you do to tellpeople women in, who couldn't
imagine that they wouldn't bepaying rent that they actually
have this ground, that this istheirs, they own it and they're
(19:48):
putting money down?
How can you advise them tostart saving or to realize, even
with their minimal savings orperhaps an inheritance or
something that they can start,that there is promise there?
What can you tell them?
Dionne Payn (20:10):
There's a graph that I saw recently and it talks
about house prices.
So I'll just do this.
So you've got wage growth onthis angle and then you've got
house prices here.
(20:30):
So the gap between wage growthand house price increases is
just widening and widening, andwidening and there's just no way
that it's going to come backand come back to an equilibrium.
So for my friend who purchasedher property for $330,000, she
(20:53):
was able to sell that propertyfive years later for $600,000.
So that is a $270,000 increasein five years that she would not
have got from just working ajob.
That is why property is sotransformative and everybody
needs to get on this train, Ibelieve, in some way shape or
(21:14):
form.
So how do you do that?
There's lots of different ways.
One of things about um growingup in a Jamaican family and a
you know sort of church, umchurch community was that sense
of helping each other.
And I remember my grandparentswhen they first arrived from
sorry, I don't remember becauseI wasn't there, but I remember
(21:35):
the story of when they came fromJamaica to the UK and they were
in a position where theycouldn't afford to buy a home.
The community worked togetherto buy the home and then that
gave them the opportunity tohelp somebody else buy the home
and the opportunity to helpsomebody else buy the home, and
it was that sharing and thatworking together that made it
(21:57):
work.
And what I feel is theopportunity in this housing
crisis is for that to come backin, for us to be working
together to make it work.
So I think I look at thingslike okay, sorry, I just had a
bit of a mental black, but Ilook at things like two sisters,
(22:21):
for example, and a mortgagebroker that I know was sharing
that two sisters came to her.
They'd both divorced, both hadvery little out of the divorce
settlement.
They came together.
They didn't think it waspossible, but they came together
and they purchased a home andthe mortgage broker helped them
to do that.
So it's that sharing.
You know, we've got ageneration now where kids cannot
(22:45):
move out of home because theycannot get onto the property
ladder.
I think this is a fantasticopportunity to explore
intergenerational living wherewe're not living on top of each
other, but we are sharingresources in a space that feels
really good for us to be in.
So there's, you know, there's,you know, even not even family
(23:06):
members coming together, friendscoming together, small
communities coming together andpurchasing land and building
something for themselves.
So there's so many ways to makeit happen.
I am very privileged to havecome through this development
pathway to understand that thereare creative strategies to make
things work, and so my realmission is sharing that
(23:30):
information, expanding people'sawareness to what is possible.
There is the practicality of,yes, you do need money to get
started, but it doesn'tnecessarily need to be your
money either, and so there'sreally creative ways that people
can come together and sharethose resources.
For some people it might betime, for some people it might
(23:50):
be money, for some people itmight be connections, but this
is the opportunity that we haveto come together and just go.
How are we going to make thiswork?
Because the old system is notworking.
It is dying.
It's time for a new system tobe born.
Beverley Glazer (24:06):
Awesome, diane, awesome.
So the message here and I telleverybody listening is to read
Diane Dionne's book.
Dionne Payne is the founder andCEO of Women for Housing, a
social impact company tacklingthe root of homelessness for
women by creating affordable,sustainable housing with low
(24:28):
property investment.
Dionne has raised more than $45billion for ethical
developments and has helped over40 investors earn double-digit
returns.
She is the number one Amazonbest-selling author of ethical
development.
(24:48):
I'm tripping all over my words,but listen people.
Ethical property investing butethical property investing, by
the way, is each individualletter E-T-H-I-C-A-L property
investing.
And she's also a trailblazingadvocate for financial security
(25:10):
for women who have beenunderserved for much too long.
Here's some takeaways from thisepisode long.
Here's some takeaways from thisepisode.
Financial empowerment startswith awareness, education and
asking questions.
Please keep asking for help andface up to your situation
(25:31):
powerfully.
You can always find a way torebuild if you believe that you
can.
If you've been relating to thisepisode, here are a few actions
that you could take right now.
Audit your finances, get clearon what you own, what you owe,
what you earn and what you spend.
Awareness gives you power anddon't wait for the system to
(25:53):
save you.
Take one small step to buildingyour own resources.
It's never too late to startnow For similar episodes on
financial empowerment.
Please check out episodes 118and 134 of Aging with Purpose
and Passion.
And if you're a caregivernavigating the challenges of
(26:14):
caring for a loved one withdementia, I highly recommend
that you listen to FadingMemories, a podcast that will
give you insights and guidanceon communicating and managing
stress and navigating grief andloss, and prioritizing your own
well-being and the caregiving ofyour loved one.
(26:37):
Fading Memory podcast offersessential tools for anyone
facing disability and chronicillness, and please check out
the links, because they're alsoin the show notes.
So, Dionne, where can peoplelearn more about you and buy
your book?
Dionne Payn (26:54):
Oh, fantastic.
Well, the book is available onAmazon and and the.
My website is wwwwomen4homescom, and it's so women number four,
homescom, and I'm also veryactive on LinkedIn, so anybody
(27:15):
can search my name and andconnect with me that way as well
.
Beverley Glazer (27:18):
So anybody can search my name and connect with
me that way as well.
Terrific, Dionne's links are inthe show notes and they'll also
be on my site, too.
That's reinventimpossiblecom.
And so, my friends, what's nextfor you?
Are you just going through themotions or are you living the
life that you truly love?
Please get my free guide to gofrom stuck to unstoppable, and
(27:40):
guess where that is.
That's in the show notes, too.
You can connect with me,Beverly Glazer, on all social
media platforms and in mypositive group on women on
Facebook, that is Women Over 50Rock, and thank you for
listening.
Have you enjoyed thisconversation?
Please subscribe to help usspread the word by dropping a
(28:03):
review and sending it out to afriend.
And remember you only have onelife, so live it with purpose
and passion.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Thank you for joining us.
You can connect with Bev on herwebsite, reinventimpossiblecom
and, while you're there, joinour newsletter Subscribe so you
don't miss an episode.
Until next time, keep agingwith purpose and passion and
celebrate life.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com