Building a Big Ten Contender: Rutgers XC/TF with Coach Nicol Starkes

Howdy & aloha! Episode 414 of Airey Bros Radio brings us back to New Jersey as we sit down with Coach Nicol Starkes, Associate Head Coach for Rutgers Cross Country & Track & Field — one of the brightest rising programs in the Big Ten.Coach Starkes has played a major role in Rutgers’ distance resurgence, guiding the Scarlet Knights to school records in the 800, 1500, mile, 3000, and DMR, multiple NCAA All-Region honors, and the best team finishes in program history.

A former NCAA All-American, six-time A-10 Champion, and Olympic Trials Qualifier, she’s also a member of both the Ridge High School and University of Richmond Halls of Fame.In this deep-dive, we cover:

• Building Rutgers into a Big Ten contender
  
  
• Coaching philosophy, athlete development & culture
  
  
• Double-threshold training & lactate testing
  
  
• Recruiting New Jersey talent
  
  
• NIL, transfer portal, academics & campus life
  
  
• Coach Starkes’ athletic journey + Gags stories
  
  
• Program vision for XC/Indoor/Outdoor T&F
  
  

If you’re a runner, recruit, coach, parent, or NJ XC/TF nerd — this is a MUST-listen.
☕ Fueled by Black Sheep Endurance Coaching
🎧 Listen on Spotify & Apple Podcasts
📺 Watch on YouTube
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SHOW NOTES + TIMESTAMP 
0:00 – ABR Intro: Why We Shine Light on ALL Levels
1:07 – Official episode open: Howdy & Aloha
1:40 – Intro: Coach Nicol Starkes + Rutgers accomplishments
3:11 – Coach joins the showCoach’s Early Life & Running Journey
3:17 – Origin story: Swimming ➝ HS running ➝ Meet of Champs
6:00 – Transition from swimming to distance running
7:03 – Recruiting to Richmond, NCAA experience
8:43 – Injury, graduation, and joining NJNY Track Club
9:45 – Training under Coach Gagliano
10:28 – Coaching at NYU & early D3 experienceRutgers Era: Rebuilding the NJ Distance Powerhouse
11:05 – Getting hired at Rutgers
11:24 – Promotion to Associate Head Coach
11:31 – How the role changes (training, science, leadership)
12:11 – Using lactate testing with exercise physiologist Morgan Murray
12:34 – Recruiting responsibilities as a mom/coach2025 XC Season & Big Ten Outlook
13:08 – Season progress recap
13:46 – Princeton Invite takeaways
14:03 – Big Ten Course breakdown (Michigan State)
15:03 – New Jersey’s brutal Holmdel flashbacksTraining Philosophy
16:49 – Double-threshold training at Rutgers
17:45 – How they structure double-T days
18:48 – Keeping athletes healthy & consistent
19:38 – Monitoring Strava + avoiding “secret workouts”Facilities, Campuses & Daily Life at Rutgers
21:21 – Running routes on Piscataway campus
22:47 – Training at Colonial Park, Johnson Park, Columbia Trail
23:22 – How RU’s 4-campus layout actually works
24:52 – Academic pathways & campus culture
27:00 – On-campus vs off-campus living - Recruiting & New Jersey Roots
28:31 – Why NJ runners should give RU a real look
29:43 – NIL impact on Rutgers T&F
31:07 – Transfer portal philosophy
33:23 – Targeting NJ athletes looking to come home
34:39 – Academic reputation & career pathways
35:30 – Internship power of the NYC-area
36:05 – Scarlet Knights for Life career developmentAthlete Development & Coaching Philosophy
37:48 – What post-college running looks like
38:54 – Being 10% coach, 90% therapist
40:57 – Freshman maturity & life skills
42:18 – What type of athlete Rutgers recruits
48:02 – Building culture + trusting team captains
49:00 – The new era of Rutgers DistanceFun Questions & NJ Culture
4:14 – Taylor Ham or Pork Roll?
4:51 – Is Central Jersey real?
50:03 – Jersey pride in the program
55:17 – Water/Wudder & NJ accents
56:16 – Coffee habits + Chick-fil-A milkshake breakdown
57:23 – Daily rituals, fitness & staying strong
59:48 – What she listens to (Spotify mixes)
1:01:01 – Team Jersey in college
1:01:27 – Guilty pleasures: Chick-fil-A wins
1:03:24 – Secret menu: Frosted Coffee
1:04:02 – Closing gratitude + Big Tens & postseason outlook

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to Airy Brose Radio. Be there or B
Square because it's all killer, no filler. This is Nicole
Starks and you're listening to Airy Bros. Radio.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Ladies and gentlemen, how do you know?

Speaker 3 (00:18):
Loha?

Speaker 2 (00:19):
We are here, you are there, and you are now
rocking with the best. We appreciate you tuning in for
another live episode of Airy Bros.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
Radio.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Tonight, we're heading back to New Jersey and on the
banks of the Raradan to talk to Scarlett Knight's distance running,
cross country, track and field coach, Nicole Starks, the associate
head coach for Rutgers Cross Country and Track and Field.
But before we get rolling, y'all know the drill. Make
sure you hammer that like button and are subscribed on YouTube.
Drop a comment, everyview, review, and share helps us grow

(00:47):
and get back to the sports we love. And as always,
this episode is fueled by Black Sheep Endurance for all
your ultra marathon and nutrition coaching needs. And let's not
forget while we're here. We're here to shine a light
on the program's coaches, athletes and stories we wish we
had access to growing up. If you love college running,
coach and culture and stories, about program building and athlete development.

(01:08):
This one is for you. Now on to tonight's guest coach,
Nicole Starks, the associate head coach of Rutgers cross country,
track and Field. She's entering her fifth season on the banks.
In that time, she has helped the Scarlet Knights record
record breaking success, including school records in the eight hundred
and fifteen hundred mile, three k and distance medley relay.

(01:31):
She's coached All Region runner Alex Carson Carlson, the first
Scarlet Knight to earn the honors since twenty fifteen, with
the best individual cross country finished in two thousand and three.
She led Rutgers women to cross country to back to
back program best finishes in twenty twenty one and twenty
twenty two. She previously coached at NYU, producing NCAA qualifiers,

(01:52):
All Americans and conference award winners. She's the twenty twelve
University of Richmond graduate and NCAA All Americans in the
three thousand meters steeple chase, a six time Atlantic ten
Conference champion, and a twenty sixteen Olympic Trials qualifier, as
well as being in the Hall of Fame for both
Ridge High School and the University of Richmond Go Spiders,

(02:14):
honoring and outstanding career as an athlete and a coach.
Without further ado, is honored a pleasure to have you
joining us this evening. We do greatly appreciate your time.
Coach Starks, Welcome to the show.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Hi, thank you guys so much for having me.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, it's an honor and a pleasure to chat with you.
We are Jersey natives, so whenever we get to connect
with our Jersey people usually lends itself to being a
pretty awesome conversation. It's a good vibe. So before we
do get too far into it, anything you would like
to plug or promote, share anything you got going on anywhere, Recruits, parents,
people with questions can find you. The floor is yours.

Speaker 4 (02:49):
Yeah, so we've got our Rutgers TFXC. That's our handle
on Instagram, and then my coaching one is just actually
it's coach Trainer Underscore Ruckers. I Summi times go by
my maiden name just because that's how I obviously was raised.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
In New Jersey.

Speaker 4 (03:06):
We're slowly transitioning over to Starks though, I think I
finally got my new office name plate that says Nicole
Stark's not a Colt trainer.

Speaker 5 (03:14):
But you know we're moving on little little baby steps, right, Yeah, So, coach,
probably the two most important questions we're going to ask you,
and I think we know the answer to this, but
we're going to ask anyway, being a graduate of Ridge
High School, is it pork roll or Taylor haam oh God.

Speaker 4 (03:33):
So I am actually not a poor role or Taylor
Ham girl at all.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
I'm aneg and cheese girl. My brother though he will
say that it's poor role, which I don't know.

Speaker 4 (03:43):
I think that's like what the North Jersey answer. Taylor
Ham's more the South Jersey. I think I could.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
Also other way.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
Okay, yeah, okay, well I don't.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
I don't mess around with the poor roll or the
tailor Ham.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
We go bag and he's all the way all right,
nothing wrong with that. And then the next one we
have for you, is Central Jersey a real place?

Speaker 4 (04:04):
I don't think, so I think you out and I
think you have like the shore as like a asterisk
region if you break it down that much, but I
don't know. And then I don't know Ifnick new Brunswick
is like right in the middle of Jersey. But I
think it's a little bit more north.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
Okay, all right, good answer. Well, we are from the shore,
so we we we we say that, but we also
say Central Jersey. But I think more and more we
lean to just saying we're from the shore, right Jim.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yes, yes, coach. One thing we like to start off
our podcast with when we talk to coaches is what
their origin story is, how they got started in the
sport and how that helped them get into coaching. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
Of course.

Speaker 4 (04:50):
So I actually started out as a swimmer, like back
in elementary school, middle school, like that was like the
main sport for me.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
I didn't really get.

Speaker 4 (05:00):
Into running until my freshman year at Ridge, just like
doing a fall sport, Like my idea behind it was
to stay in shape for swimming. Swimming was like more
of the winter spring like spring was like more championship
tail end.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
And I swam for my.

Speaker 4 (05:15):
Local club in Basking Ridge summers at Hills YMCA, which
I think it might have a different name by now
because this was years ago. But then I slowly, I
guess after that first freshman season running for Ridge, it
was the first time our women's team qualified for a
meet of champions, which was a really big deal.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
And I started to understand like more of what that meant.

Speaker 4 (05:36):
But I actually didn't do track until my sophomore year
because I continued swimming that first year. Sophomore year ended
up doing outdoor track. I actually like really randomly got
really sick during the winter, so that kind of like
forced me to give up swimming in a way, which
I guess now looking back on it is kind of
like a blessing in disguise, because then I ended up

(05:57):
running outdoor track, had like a pretty good sophomore year,
and then the next year was my junior was really
when I like started running full time. I guess how
they say it, like cross country in door into outdoor,
and that's really when I saw like my time start
to drop, and then obviously continued that into my senior
year as I started.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
To get recruited.

Speaker 4 (06:15):
So yeah, I didn't really have any intention of like
being a runner when I first entered high school, but
I definitely left high school like loving the sport. Obviously
went ended up at University of Richmond with Steve and
Lorie Taylor, and they were great at developing me, like
getting me to the next level. I qualified for the
regional meet my freshman year there and that was just

(06:36):
like a big eye opening experience and then qualified for
ENDS double as a couple of times got my butt
handed to me at in the five K my sonomore
year at outdoor n C double A's, but then yeah,
they did a great job with me.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
Ended up doing five years there.

Speaker 4 (06:53):
I guess I got hurt actually, like at regionals that
final year, which was like a big bummer. I thought
that I was like gearing up for something really good
at the NC double A meet, but I like somehow
managed to finish a steeple chase on a bum ankle,
and I thought that kind of had ruined my chances

(07:13):
of like continuing to run after college. But luckily coach Gagliano,
who was a legendary Rutgers coach, actually had New Jersey,
New York track club up in New Brunswick, so I
had actually talked to my high school coach, like I
was like, I don't really know what I want to
do after school. I have a degree in math and economics,
but like I never did internships over the summer because

(07:35):
we were training, like NT double A's, went kind of
late to like start an internship in May. We got
into double A in the middle of June, like didn't
ever really kind of line up, so he was like,
come coach with me. So that's kind of how everything started.
So in or twenty twelve, I graduated from Richmond, moved home,
lived with my parents, coached at Ridge High School, and

(07:57):
then ran for New Jersey, New York Truck Club. And
I know coach gags to a risk on me just
because I mean the ladies at the time that I
was training with. You had Julie Cully, who also was
a Rutgers legend. She had just won the Olympic Trials
in the five k that twenty twelve season. Delilah de Crescenzo,
amazing steepler out of Columbia. Ashley Higginson my one of

(08:18):
my good friends steeple Aer at Princeton, Like we went
head to head a couple of times, and some of
those NC Double A meets she always beat me. But
that's okay, We're still we're still good pals. But yeah,
that's kind of how everything started at Ridge. And then
I stayed at Ridge until twenty sixteen, like after the
Olympic Trials, like so coached with coach Mooney there for

(08:40):
those four years and then actually coach Gags helped set
me up with NYU. We're kind of just introducing me
to the head coach there at the time. His name
was Arison her Tall. He was the sprinter out of Columbia,
so he ended up interviewing me and I brought on
as the distance coach at NYU. Obviously much different than

(09:03):
high school coaching. At the college level, especially in downtown
Manhattan at the time, it was pretty challenging just because they,
I guess were getting their facilities upgraded, so they completely
demolished like the main athletic facility.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
So for the.

Speaker 4 (09:18):
Really it was technically five years, but i'll call it
three and a half years. Because of COVID, there was
essentially a year and a half that we weren't allowed
to compete. We didn't really have like a home base,
so being in the middle of Manhattan, that definitely made
things challenging. And then ultimately they got a new athletic director.
They went a new direction.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
With the program.

Speaker 4 (09:35):
The guy who's there now, Tyler deck Shipley. He's doing
a great job with the program. And then that kind
of gave me the opportunity to apply for the job
at Rutgers. Actually a buddy of mine, Travis Mahoney, that
we ran together. He kind of let me know, is like, hey,
like I heard like the Rutgers assistant position is opening.
Like they were reconstructing how the program was run. The

(09:56):
men and women used to be completely separate. And then
when coach maul Queen decided to retire, Coach Jelly took
over both and then they were looking for an assistant.
So Coach Jelly actually coached at Temple while I was
at Richmond, so we at cross Path just because we
were both in the Atlantic ten conference.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
So then I interviewed.

Speaker 4 (10:15):
Ended up getting the assistant job and just kind of
have been with the program since fall of twenty twenty one.
And then last I guess August of twenty twenty four
was when I ended up getting the promotion from assistant
distance coach to associate head of the.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
Cross country and track programs. So that's how I got
to where I am today.

Speaker 3 (10:39):
How has your role changed since you went from assistant
to associated head coach?

Speaker 4 (10:45):
Just writing like the training now really utilizing the resources
that we have on campus. I'm still fairly involved in recruiting,
but I have a great assistant Lexi Wesley. She's like,
really now kind of taking the reins with the like
late phone calls.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
I'm pretty sure she's on probably some calls right now.

Speaker 4 (11:03):
I have a seventeen month old daughter, So the late
night phone calls or evening phone calls to get a
little bit harder when she's like crying for my attention.
So Lexi's done a great job with that, but we
have His name is Morgan Murray. He is an exercise scientist,
exercise physiologist. He was actually a graduate of the Wrecker's
Track and Field program, so he's done a lot of

(11:25):
like the lactate testing with us, which.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
Has been amazing.

Speaker 4 (11:27):
So just really utilizing the science behind the training. I
know a lot of programs across the country have really
started doing that.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
I mean, it wasn't.

Speaker 4 (11:34):
Really a thing, or maybe it was a thing back
when I was training, but it was not something that
a lot of people had access to. I never dabbled
in it. But yeah, he's been a huge help for us.
So just like helping me write the training in the
best way that I can. That's like really the I
guess the main difference and then just I guess technically
since I am.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
The associate head of track as well.

Speaker 4 (11:56):
That I mean, I think I've done this when I
was an assistant as well, but really trying to get
to know like all the other event groups. I mean,
I know I will never coach pulvol I will never
coach jumps, but just to like have an idea of
what's going on, what's going on with the kids in
each of those event groups, but really just like making
sure I have a pulse on what's, you know, happening
with all the different groups.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
How has this season been going so far?

Speaker 1 (12:21):
So far, it's been going very well.

Speaker 4 (12:24):
We actually just competed at Princeton Invitational this last Friday.
It was our last regular season meet. I guess you
could say since our next one will be Big Tens
on Halloween. The guys, We've said this like almost every
year since I've been back at Rutgers, but this is
like the best distance team that we've had, like in

(12:44):
recent history.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
I know, Coach Gags coach some legendary runners back in.

Speaker 4 (12:47):
His day, and then there was kind of a lull
for a couple of years with the distance program, but
we're now kind of like seeing it come back to life,
like we're kind of beating some teams that a couple
of years ago we were way far behind, so that's
like really promising looking two Big Tens that is, yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
Literally in like a week and a half.

Speaker 4 (13:09):
We leave next Wednesday, so yeah, it's coming up fast.
But yeah, so far the season has been going definitely
very well.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
Where are Big Tens this year?

Speaker 4 (13:19):
They're over at Michigan State, So we actually went to
pre Big Tens at the beginning of September. It was
our second meet, so we got to preview the course.
They did the full six.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
K for women, eight k for the men, so yeah,
we're excited.

Speaker 4 (13:32):
There was probably maybe like a third of the Big
ten teams went to the meet, the pre Big Ten meet,
so it's kind of nice that we like to do that,
just to go preview the course kind of see what
we're getting ourselves into. It actually was a nice golf course,
nothing crazy hilly, but it did roll a little bit,
just so you're not feeling like you're running on a
grass track.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
We were at Illinois last year and.

Speaker 4 (13:54):
That was just two k loops over and over and
it was like super flat, so it almost it was
literally like a grass track. So we're luckily this one
has a little bit of like ups and downs, but
nothing out of control.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
I would say nothing.

Speaker 4 (14:08):
We don't see any courses like Home doll in College
except I guess actually that's a lie.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
Michigan's golf course is super hilly.

Speaker 4 (14:18):
I didn't actually run the course there at all, like
I sometimes I will like jog parts of it, but
like the team was like, yeah, it's like really like
it's almost unnecessarily hilly.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
So we had big tens there a few years ago.

Speaker 4 (14:29):
But yeah, we're excited to head out to Michigan State
and in wee can have okay.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
We you know, back in the day when I was
in at Mammoth, we used to have the New Jersey
Collegiate Championships and we used to run AK at Home
Delle Park.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
I heard that AK course is not great.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
It's a challenge, but it was a fun uh you know,
it was fun to go back and having run there
so much as high schooler, to go back there and
run the backwoods and do all that sort of stuff.
And yeah, I just I love the aspect of like
all the New Jersey colleges or any state the college
is coming together and having like a state championship, you know.

(15:09):
But with so many meets and so many different amazing
courses out there, it's probably tough to fit something like
that in the schedule these days.

Speaker 4 (15:16):
Yeah, I guess Princeton tried to put something like that
together for like our very first meet this season.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
They call it the.

Speaker 4 (15:21):
Jersey Jam, so it was us Rider Mamith Princeton obviously,
and then actually you Pen came over for it as well,
so we had the Jersey schools plus u Pen, but
it was short, shorter distances. I think it was a
five point eight k for the men in a four
point one for the ladies. So yeah, it would be
cool to have something like that. But yeah, like you're saying,
the schedule gets a little jam.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
Packed, jam packed, and I think nowadays people are probably
racing a little bit less than maybe what we did
back in the late nineties.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
Yeah, that's also very valid.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
Well, you mentioned the lacktay testing and that sort of stuff,
And one of the questions love to ask, because it's
such a hot topic these days. Are the Scarlet Knights
gabbling in the world of double threshold training at all?

Speaker 1 (16:07):
We are?

Speaker 4 (16:08):
So this is actually the first season that we've done
it Tuesday afternoons, so we don't do it.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
Race week, but we had we did.

Speaker 4 (16:17):
I guess we did do it for some of the
in like the early season meets, but once we hit October,
we did not do it race week at all. It
was something that yeah, the guys wanted to talk a
little bit about last year. We're like, Okay, like, if
we're going to do this, we need to do this right.
We don't need to like cook ourselves too much at
the beginning of the season. So we've actually reduced the

(16:37):
volume on the double threshold now for like the month
of October. We were like hitting it a little bit
heavier in September, but we honestly we do the same
workout every Tuesday afternoon. So like the double session, it's
anywhere from six to eight times three minutes on, one
minute off, and it's just like basically you're feeling out
the pace rather than like feeling like you're needing to

(16:59):
hit certain split.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
So I encourage people to go off the track.

Speaker 4 (17:02):
I know some people go to the track anyway, but
it's just a way to get a little bit of
extra work in the legs without completely like overloading yourself
and then everyone are I guess we didn't require this
by any means, but over the summer people that were
interested in it went to do the full lactate testing
with Morgan in the lab. So we have like really

(17:25):
good data not just for this year, but then even
to move forward. Like last year we did a little
bit of it, but it was definitely not on the
scale that we did it last year or sorry. This year,
I think there was maybe like two or three people
that didn't want to do it and we just kind
of have made their paces based on how they're racing
who they race closely to. But yeah, the lactate testing

(17:48):
I think has been huge for just getting those like
proper threshold paces keeping people relatively healthy. We haven't had
anything major fingers crossed for the season, so yeah, we
are officially dabbling in the world at the double threshold.
I know that's the new hot thing.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Yeah. I feel like if teams aren't doing it, the
kids are chomping at the bit asking the coaches to
do it, and if they're not doing it, they want
to know why. Per se it's you know, they're not
doing it, it's just or.

Speaker 4 (18:23):
They're going to go do it anyway, even if like
the coaches aren't there because I like, we have our
morning practice, how it's blocked off, and like we won't
be there for the afternoon practice.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
It's like a captain's practice.

Speaker 4 (18:35):
So just because technically it's outside of the practice block,
so it is optional. But obviously the guys will meet up.
I think they do it in kind of two groups
based on their class schedules, and they're like, yeah, they'll
go do it, get it done.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yeah. I probably would have been one of those kids
that was doing it, even though coach said not to
do it.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
How do you navigate those voters when you have a
more in practice, this is what we want you to do.
Then they have the rest of the day to do
what they want and you have kids maybe doing a
little too much. How do you kind of have those conversations?

Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah, I mean we use Strava decent amount.

Speaker 4 (19:12):
We have like our own little Strava group, so if
someone's doing something and.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
Uploading it, we're going to see it.

Speaker 4 (19:18):
We actually had that issue a little bit a couple
of years ago with one of our guys that was
just like going out and hammering things even when we
were not prescribing it at all, and we're kind of like, look,
if we don't know what you're doing, like and we're
then prescribing you things in practice thinking that you might
be recovered.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
When you're not, Like, that's how you're going to get hurt.

Speaker 4 (19:37):
So just like preaching the consistency in training rather than
having some like major one hundred percent golden workout, like
it's not that's not what that is, not what's going
to get you better.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
It's just like the little.

Speaker 4 (19:49):
Things day and day out, and like maintaining your health
and your longevity. That's like how you are going to
get to the next level, and not by trying to
crank out double threshold like if you're not supposed to
be doing it or anything like that. Because even our
freshman guys that came in we actually started, I guess
over the summer, like I started writing that up in
the summer training with our upperclassmen, and then once our

(20:12):
incomers got to campus, we kind of made the decisions
on you know, you guys are going to be on
the lower end of the volume if you want to
do this, and you know they they obviously want to
do what the other guys are doing, so they're going
to say yes.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
When it comes to cross country, where are you guys running?

Speaker 4 (20:30):
So we are running in the neighborhoods of Piscataway through
they have a campus I guess actually they have. The
guys have a Livingston Loop. I did it with them
a few years ago. It's like roughly seven miles, I
want to say, just through the neighborhoods in a Piscataway.
And then they also have a couple of different campus loops.
They have a Bush loop they have I think there's

(20:51):
a loop that goes over to College at as well,
because we will usually meet on Livingston campus.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
For anyone that's.

Speaker 4 (20:57):
Listening that isn't familiar with how Rutgers is laid out,
we kind of have four campuses. Livingston and Bush are
on one side of the Rare and River, and then
College ABB and Cook Douglas are on the other side
of the Rare and River. All the athletic facilities are
between Livingston and Bush campuses, so that is where there's
more space. So we'll they have a couple of different
loops that they'll do, and then other than that, we're

(21:18):
like on the track in the bubble. We do use
Colonial Park a decent amount for long runs. That's just
one of the entrances to the towpath that starts in
New Brunswick, so we will go there sometimes an indoor
when we don't want to be doing like crazy amounts
of volume on the indoor track, we will go to
Johnson Park, which is just right across the street from

(21:40):
the football stadium. They have a roughly two mile stretch
of road that usually is plowed fairly well. If we
do get any snowfall that we'll do some like longer
intervals on there if it's not like ten.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Degrees outside or will.

Speaker 4 (21:56):
We have gone in the past for some long runs
over to the Columbia Trail. We have a decent amount
of kids from the Hunterdon County area, so they always
like to go there. And then we have used River
Road a couple of times in Bedminster. That one's just
like a that's a hilly long run, so that's not
great for like a recovery long run. So that would

(22:17):
be something that we might hit earlier in the season.
But around now or like now, we're going to stay flat.
We're going to stay like controlled. We don't need any
crazy efforts. But yeah, we have we have our different
running routes.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
Coach, how does it work with the four campuses? Because
I remember back way back in ninety four when I
was going through the recruiting process and stuff and talking
that was always, I guess, for lack of a better term,
a knock that I heard from different people about Rutgers
with the different campuses and being spread out and that
being a challenge for athletes to navigate. Is that something

(22:54):
that comes up in conversation or are kids asking that
at all?

Speaker 4 (22:59):
Yeah, they are, for sure. I think each campus kind
of has a different vibe. So I know Livingston is
the one that has been built up the most in
recent years. It used to just be I think a
couple of dorms, maybe a couple of academic buildings, but
now our business school is there. Obviously, our Jersey Mike's Arena,
which is where the basketball team plays, is there, so

(23:19):
an outdoor track is there, new building, athletic performance center
is also there. So like if you're in the business school,
there's also beautiful new apartments, the Livingston apartments, So we
tried to get as many of our athletes into those
apartments as we can. So if you are a business
major living in Livingston apartments on the track team like
your to entire existence can be on Livingston campus, so

(23:42):
Livingston's more business. And then you go over to Bush.
That's like where the sciences engineering pharmacy is over there,
like yeah, mostly like your bios, your chems, all that stuff.
So if you're a science person, you might be like
trekking back and forth between Livingston and Bush. Then College
AB is like that's their original Rutgers campus, so you

(24:04):
have like your education, economics, communication, like all of those
kind of specialties over on College AB. And then Cook
Doug is the farthest one. That's where the Ruckers Farm is.
We do have a couple of animal science majors, so
they trek over there to the Rutgers farm to take
care of the animals. Also, some exercise science classes.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
Will be over there.

Speaker 4 (24:25):
But yeah, the busing system from what I hear, is
relatively okay.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
At times. There's a little app for.

Speaker 4 (24:35):
Just like with a different bus route so you know
like when your bus is coming. We also people can
have cars on campus, so you can have you know,
your residential pass for where you're living and parking, and
then you can get a commuter pass for another lot.
Also teammates. Maybe you have a teammate that is willing
to like drop you off. So it can be hard
at times to navigate the different campuses. But with the

(24:57):
amount of time you're probably spending on Livingston camp versus
the other campuses, like, you'll find a way to make
it work. And it's not really any different if you
think of some of the other big ten schools that
just have one ginormous campus and everything is like mixed
around that you might have to travel more on some
of those campuses. Then maybe you have a couple of

(25:18):
days a week that you have to stray from like
your home base campus, especially with practice being like between
Livingston and Bush when we're at the outdoor track versus
the indoor track, those two campuses are right next to
each other, so they're easy enough to get to you.
I mean, I've done the walk from like the football
stadium on one end of Bush campus back to our
offices on Livingston campus, and it's taken me like twenty

(25:40):
to twenty five minutes to walk. So I'm sure more
in shape people can get there quicker, or if they
have their e scooters or whatever, they their bicycles whatever
they got, So yeah, it's not the worst thing to
have the four campuses. And then you have you know,
like College ab is the downtown area, so you get
that kind of like downtown vibe verse versus your Bush

(26:01):
and your Livingston where you almost feel like you're in
like a little small college town in a way.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
So I can imagine if anything, it just teaches kids
to be better at time management.

Speaker 1 (26:12):
Yes, definitely.

Speaker 4 (26:13):
And then our academic advisor if you have if you're
like scheduling between different campuses, like they leave a lot
of time between classes for that change, so and she
won't like, have you going from like cook Dug to
Livingston or something like that. And especially as like a
freshman and a sophomore, a lot of the intro classes
are offered on multiple campuses, so you're not necessarily like

(26:35):
having to trek around as much as you might have to,
like once you maybe get into your specialty, but then
by then you're you're used to everything, how everything works.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
As a majority of cross country and track and field
athletes living on campus, we're actually.

Speaker 4 (26:50):
Split, so we have a couple of people like I
would say about half the team lives in the Livingston
apartments on campus.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
Half the team lives off campus. We've got.

Speaker 4 (27:01):
A girls track at or distance house, two guys distance houses,
and I believe the girls have an apartment off campus
as well. So yeah, they kind of it's whatever really
they want to do. We don't force them one way
or the other. I mean, I know a lot of
people they're like, oh, the Livingston apartments. We've actually had
someone in the past move from Livingston apartments to off

(27:22):
campus to come back onto campus in Livingston apartments because
it's just so convenient to be so close to practice,
especially if you're in the business school. Again, everything is
literally within a five minute walk from where you live.

Speaker 3 (27:35):
The landscape of Rutgers athletics has changed a lot, definitely
since Rich and I were in the recruiting process, and
probably since you were in the recruiting process. Do you
feel like it is more of an option for New
Jersey runners to give Rutgers a look because it is
in the Big ten?

Speaker 4 (27:53):
I think so, I mean, that's definitely what we're trying
to do. We're not really like dabbling in the like
overse recruiting a lot, at least on the distance side.
Kind of our main goal is to give a lot
of these New Jersey kids an option to stay home
if they want to. I know in the past it's
been just like everyone wants to like high tail it
out of here. But it's like, this isn't a bad
spot to train, Like, you have really good competition in

(28:15):
the Big Ten.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
You have really good training facilities.

Speaker 4 (28:18):
I mean again, like the towpath is literally across the
street from the football stadium.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
You have that soft service access right there.

Speaker 4 (28:24):
You have an indoor track, you have a recently reserviced
outdoor track, you have multiple weight rooms. Like, you have options,
and we just like want to make the kids in
New Jersey like aware of that. Sometimes I think kind
of what you were saying with like the busing and
the different campuses like that can intimidate people. So we

(28:44):
like to bring them in, give them a tour. We're like, looks,
it's not as overwhelming and intimidating as you might think
it is. So we've had I mean, we've had luck.
We have the majority of our guys are from New Jersey.
We like actually have only a handful of people from
out of state.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
The women's team is slightly more out of state. On
the distance side, but still not not too much.

Speaker 4 (29:06):
Like the majority is always going to be New Jersey
athletes just because we are obviously a very talented state.
There's a lot of talent to pull from, and if
coach Lexier and I are doing our jobs correctly, we're
going to develop them to be the best versions of
themselves they can be and hopefully, you know, start to
pick teams off in the Big ten.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
So one thing we hear a lot about with Division
one athletics is the NIL how it's changing the game.
How has that affected Rutgers across country and track and field?

Speaker 4 (29:39):
Yeah, so actually before so we just got a new
athletic director, Kelly is In. She came from LSU with
aslong with our president William Tate, so she has been
big on the NIL push. It sounds like she did
a lot of work at LSU for that. Now she
wants to bring that to Rutgers. So, honestly, in the past,

(29:59):
there hasn't been a ton I think a couple of
people have. They're they're posting like they have like maybe
little deals with like CVS or Hollister.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
Or like there's just been the kind of these like
one offs.

Speaker 4 (30:12):
But now that we actually have like the Rutgers and
I L is in place. We're hoping that we're going
to see a little bit more. We know it's going
to be more football and basketball heavy obviously at the beginning.
But you know, we on the track side, we had,
I mean a couple of all Americans. Bryce Tucker with
was eighth at the last outdoor Championships. So like, if

(30:36):
I don't know, someone wants to give him an an
ile deal, get it to him like they I know
that that it's going to be like the very the
very highest level athletes like kind of in these Olympic
sports getting those nil deals directly from Rutgers.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
And another thing changing the game individual one athletics is
the Poral. How has the Poral been to you? And
do you use it?

Speaker 1 (31:01):
Yeah? The portal has been pretty good to us.

Speaker 4 (31:03):
I mean it has changed even like since it like
it I guess came into existence. It's like changed a lot,
just like now with roster limitations with nil with I
mean because we can have seventeen on the cross country
roster and up to forty five on the track roster
and those actually can count like separately. So we've gotten

(31:28):
some transfers for sure off of the portal. A couple
of years ago we had a trio from penn and
a girl from Kansas State, a guy from New Orleans.
So we have definitely like dabbled in that a little bit.
It's been slightly quieter more recently. We have right now
one or sorry, two transfers on the team, one from Louisville,

(31:48):
one from LSU on the distance side at least, So
we don't we're not trying to bring like a ton
of transfers in every year because we want, you know,
to kind of build the culture that we want and
then bring people in off the portal.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
That we see like we'll add to the to the program.

Speaker 4 (32:06):
So actually, both of the transfers that we did get
are both originally from New Jersey, so you know, they
left wanted to come back, we said absolutely, like come
join a squad. Well, we've also had people leave that
you know, maybe Rutgers isn't the right fit for them,
they want to go elsewhere. That's just kind of the
day and age that we're in with the portal makes
it a lot easier for them to leave if they want.

(32:28):
But I would say it's been overall and net positive
for us.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
That was going to be my question. Are you looking
specifically in the portal for New Jersey athletes that are
potentially looking to come home. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (32:41):
I mean there's people in there that it's like, oh,
like I maybe recruited you or tried to recruit you
when you were a freshman, and now you're you know,
you have a couple of seasons of eligibility and you
want to do grad school. Like that, We'll look at that,
probably a little bit more than undergraduate transfers a little bit.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
With the grad transfers, I know, Rutgers has pretty solid
you know, master's programs. Again, that was something that I
think you don't necessarily think about as a as a
college kid or or recruit, you know, the potential for
for going on and getting your masters. But outside of

(33:23):
New I mean within New Jersey, but also with outside
of New Jersey. I think Rutgers holds a high regard
as a high level institution, and I think sometimes maybe
New Jersey kids don't necessarily think that is the case.
Is that still something you encounter or is that just
something from the from the nineties and my recruiting days.

Speaker 4 (33:44):
No, I think that's something that we still kind of
deal with a little bit. I think it's especially as
something like the business school, like the network of alumni
in this tri state area that wants to hire a
Rutgers grad.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
Maybe not something that you're thinking about.

Speaker 4 (33:58):
As a freshman or as a senior in high school
going into your freshman year of college, but then your
senior year of college you're thinking about it. So it's
you know, if you can go home, get a great degree,
like get hired, why not.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
And you mentioned when you were in college because of
track and fields, you didn't necessarily have the opportunity or
the time rather to do the internships and stuff. But
that's another thing that we like to talk with the
coaches about is internship opportunities. And I would imagine, as
you just said, being relatively close proximity to New York
and with the alumni basis, there's probably a lot of

(34:34):
internship opportunities for upperclassmen.

Speaker 4 (34:38):
Yeah, and we have a whole department dedicated to that.
Scarlett Knights for Life shout out to our girl, Elice Washington.
She has been great for us that she. I mean,
they provide options like for individual meetings as early as
your freshman year, getting your resume, getting your LinkedIn, getting
a professional headshot, kind of all that stuff, and then
as you kind of progress through your education, going and

(35:02):
using them as an option for finding an internship. We
do a couple of they call it the Nights of
Networking that we'll do two every year, one in the fall,
one in the winter, where we'll bring back people Rutgers
graduates that you know, are in the real world now
and they are looking to hire Rutgers grads and just
have a conversation with people. And that's open to all athletes,

(35:24):
not just upperclassmen. So we have we encourage everyone to go,
like starting your freshman year that it's like, look, you
got to have a plan because a lot of people
are obviously going to go into things other than sports
when they graduate. I just happen to get lucky so
that I still get to work in athletics. But yeah,
the options there are great. The infrastructure is there. Really,

(35:44):
What we say is all you need to do is
like make the appointment. And no one's going to like
make the appointment with Scarlet Knights for life for you,
although at least m you know, email and be like, hey,
come meet with me.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
But yeah, there's also actually like an intro.

Speaker 4 (35:58):
H they call it, like the athlete when you are
in your freshman year, just kind of introducing you to
all of the different resources that we have. And I
know they do a kind of a unit on the
Scarlet Knights for Life and what they can help provide
you with. I know, and I don't know if this
has changed at a school like University of Richmond, but that,
you know, a smaller liberal arts school. I think we

(36:20):
had like four thousand people there total. They're just using
like their I guess for the general student population, is
what their career services are for. Like at a big
ten school like this, this Scarlet Knights for Life is
just for athletes, so you have your entire.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
Like this career center for you know, the crew.

Speaker 4 (36:41):
Of six hundred athletes versus the entire Rutgers student population,
which I'm going to guess is around twenty five thousand undergrads.
I probably should know that exact number, but I don't.
But I know it's a lot bigger than Richmond was.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
It's bigger than mom with us for sure.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:56):
Yeah, but you competed in the trials. Is that something
that you're talking to your athletes about? And kind of
getting their brain's gone with Hey, this is something you
can do. This is where we want the program to go.

Speaker 1 (37:12):
A little bit here and there.

Speaker 4 (37:13):
I mean, like we mentioned that Alex Carlson came through
the program, set a lot of the program records. From
what I understand, she's still out, you know, training in
flag Staff trying to take it to the next level.
Our girl, Cassidy Johnson, one of the grad transfers from
Kansas State a couple of years ago. She is now
running professionally for under Armour down in Baltimore, So you

(37:34):
know there there there have been people come through the
program that have like taken it to the next level,
whether it's kind of on some of our people's radars
like a little bit yes and no. But I think
we also have a group like they might continue running
after college. Billy Hill is a great example. He graduated
a couple of years ago. He actually coaching at Franklin

(37:55):
High School. He is being trained by one of my
old buddies, so he just like being I guess seeing
that option that like, hey, it doesn't have to end here,
like you can continue to pursue this, and that's I
guess the nice thing about running is you don't necessarily
have to be on a team. Like sure, having a
sponsor makes things a lot easier, but at the end

(38:16):
of the day, if you're like living at home, like
if you don't have to pay rent, you kind of
have your parents as a support system, and you want
to keep training and you have someone to help train you, like,
you can go as far as you I guess, as
far as you want really in the sport, whether that's
going all the way to the Olympic Trials or just compete,
like continuing to compete.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
Like in your local road races.

Speaker 4 (38:40):
If you want to get on to the track, come
indoor and outdoor season, like this is a great area
to do that.

Speaker 3 (38:45):
In you mentioned in the role as you associated head coach,
you're getting more one on one time with the athletes.
How much of your time is coaching and how much
of your time is being a therapist.

Speaker 4 (39:00):
Probably like ten percent coaching ninety percent other things like
the actual like writing the training is actually a very
small part of the actual coaching. And I don't know
if a lot of people that like want to get
into coaching truly understand that. I know, like coach Lexi,
she just graduated from Wisconsin not this past year, but
the year before, so just kind of she's like kind

(39:23):
of seeing now that it like opening the eyes to
like what college athletics is really liked that.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
She's like, oh my gosh, Like we really.

Speaker 4 (39:28):
Like we have a lot of one on one meetings
with people that you know, we're talking not necessarily about training,
like sure training and goals and everything come up, but
just like finding out how they're doing outside of running,
like class wise socially, like what are we up to?

Speaker 1 (39:42):
How are we liking things?

Speaker 4 (39:44):
So, yeah, we try to find time to meet with
the athletes one on one, carving out fifteen twenty thirty
minutes of time having them come in and just like
get that time with them because obviously that only helps
build the trust that it's like, hey, coach, doesn't just
see me as like someone on the team that's gonna
run whatever that we want to like genuinely get to

(40:07):
know them, just be there to support them through whatever
they're going through.

Speaker 3 (40:13):
How ready do you feel a lot of the kids
are to be on their own to do their own things,
and how much do you kind of have to hold
their hand but at sometimes let go and be Hey,
you got to figure this out on yourself. You're going
to be an adults soon.

Speaker 4 (40:28):
Yeah, I mean when they come in as freshmen, I
mean some I guess you just see the different levels
of I guess maturity and then like how you know,
prepared they are, like for the next step in life.
But we just hope that we can help play a
small part in like getting them ready for graduation.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
But like I was like, you know, Scarlett Knights.

Speaker 4 (40:47):
For Life does a great job with that, with like
the career aspect of it, but just like, yeah, just
getting them ready to send them off on their own,
I guess just talking about We've joked.

Speaker 1 (40:59):
That was like, oh, like you know, we could do.

Speaker 4 (41:00):
Like a personal finance class with some of them, just
like being like this is how you need to like
manage your money, or like this is what a credit
card is, like these little kind of things here and there.
But I think overall, like the kids that we get in,
they they are good kids and they're going to go
on and do great things, and yeah, we just we

(41:22):
hope that we can play a small part in their story.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
Coach, you mentioned a small percentage that is the x's
and o's of writing training and programming, and cross country's
one distance or two distances, one for men, one for women,
so everyone's kind of doing sort of the same thing.
Training is relatively similar. But when it gets indoor and
outdoor and you being a great steeplechase er, do you

(41:49):
have a favorite event that you like to coach in
the track seasons?

Speaker 1 (41:53):
I mean I do.

Speaker 4 (41:53):
I definitely love coaching the steeplechase. We've had a couple
of people dabble in the event since I have come
on to the staff, but no, I mean I enjoy
writing the training for all the groups I know in track.

Speaker 1 (42:07):
Yeah, like kind of, So how we do things.

Speaker 3 (42:09):
We have a.

Speaker 4 (42:09):
Google doc basically that we have two versions of it,
one that Lexi and I can see and then the
other one that all.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
The athletes can see.

Speaker 4 (42:17):
So basically every week we kind of refresh the one
that they see, so they kind of see like their
mileage goals for the week, how many minutes we want
them to cross train, just like the layout of the
whole week, and then we'll update usually like Monday night,
so like probably when we get off this podcast, I'll
be updating the workhouse for tomorrow, and then Thursday night
for like the Friday work so we have like the

(42:40):
cross country one. Each day gets a lot shorter because
there's only like a couple of different groups. Pretty much
most people are doing the same thing. Mid distance has
their own kind of thing, the guys that are still
with us but don't run cross country, but pretty much
the cross country group, it's varying volumes, but everyone's relatively
doing the same thing. Then when we get to track,
it's like way longer that we have are like eight

(43:02):
hundred guys. Some of our guys that do like eight
slash fifteen. Then we have like you know, three K,
five K, and then like the long long distance, so
it's almost like four different groups and sometimes they like
intertwine a little bit. But then with steeple specific stuff,
we won't do a lot of that until like the
end of indoor early outdoor, Like we'll do some drills

(43:22):
and stuff during the indoor season. We'll go over some
hurdles a little bit, but nothing nothing over hurdles like
in workouts in the indoor track, especially in the bubble.
There's not enough room unfortunately to do that even if
we wanted to. But yeah, I like the probably one
of my favorite workouts like for steepling is doing like
some four hundred repeats like at your goal race pace

(43:45):
just so then you're kind of seeing helping. Like sorry,
the best way to explain is like you're kind of
gauging how fast you're gonna be coming at the hurdle
steeple in the race and still like getting so getting
that kind of like mental confidence in hitting that pace,
but then obviously getting your breaks every four hundred, so
you're not like going into the well and doing like

(44:07):
a full rice pace effort in a practice. But yeah,
I of course I am biased as my steeplers, but
you know we love every every eventure.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
Sure, sure, And I'm curious because ever in steeple too,
But as a coach, uh, you know in a state
like New Jersey that doesn't really have steeple in most
high schools don't really offer steep chase some of the
national meets hosts and stuff. But what are some things
some key indicators that you're maybe looking at assessing maybe
during the cross country and indoor season to find new

(44:41):
potential steeplers.

Speaker 4 (44:44):
Mostly like the number one thing I would say is
like the athlete wanting to do it because if they
don't want to do it and you're kind of just
like looking to see if you they have like the
physical markers, they're not going to be good at it
because they're not going to be able to get over
the mental barrier of like the actual physical barriers and
especially the water jump.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
So even like uh Makaia Lawson is a great example.

Speaker 4 (45:06):
He is a junior right now from Rawei High School.
He came in, didn't run the steepless freshman year at all,
and then last year was like, hey, coach, like I
want to try it. So we did, you know, just
a couple of like hurdling drills in the indoor season
and then he you know, did great with them. Was
fearless over we don't practice into the actual water, we'll

(45:29):
do the we'll set the barrier up in front of
the long jump pits and just go into the sand.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
Was great at that, So then we were like, yeah,
let's do it.

Speaker 4 (45:37):
Same with our girl Sophia, she had actually done the
steeple She's from New York, so she had actually done
the steeple chase in like seventh grade and she was like, oh,
like I kind of want to try it, and this
she was a junior.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
Uh yeah, she was.

Speaker 4 (45:50):
A junior last year, so like her first two years,
she was more eight hundred and fifteen hundred, and then
it was like, oh, like, I want to try this.
She unfortunately had took a little tom and is recovering
from an injury from Big ten Outdoors.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
But she'll be back. I don't know if she'll want
to do steeple again, but that we'll get there. We'll
get to that. We'll climb that mountain when we get there.

Speaker 4 (46:12):
But yeah, the most important thing is just wanting to
do it, and then we can kind of like work
the rest. Either it it clicks or it doesn't, I
guess is the best way to put it.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
Yeah, I hear you, coach, what type of student athlete
are you looking for to physic culture of Rutgers track
field and cross country?

Speaker 1 (46:31):
We want someone that wants to compete. That's like bottom line,
they want.

Speaker 4 (46:35):
To compete, and in a way in the classroom, you're
essentially like competing for the best grades. So we want
someone that wants to compete on the track, wants to
compete in the classroom.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
That's like the one thing that we look for the most.

Speaker 4 (46:48):
But then also wanting to compete, but then also just
being a good teammate and supporting the people around you
that it's not like, hey, I.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
Me over the team, Like we never want that kind
of attitude.

Speaker 4 (47:01):
And then usually a big thing now that we've kind
of established a good culture on the team, we always
ask for our host's feedback when we do have recruits
on campus, and we've stopped recruiting people based on like
some of their feedback that it's like, oh, like this
person might not be wanting.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
To come here for the right reasons.

Speaker 4 (47:18):
Like I trust the kids that we have on the
team now, like we brought them in for a reason.
So we're like, if you're telling me that you don't
think this kid is going to fit, then I believe you.
As good as they might be, we might have to
say goodbye.

Speaker 3 (47:34):
I tell you you've had those experiences where they come
in on Monday and they're like, oh, you don't know,
you don't want to know what this kid did at
the food trucks on Saturday night.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
Right, Yeah?

Speaker 4 (47:45):
Yeah, that it's kind of like, yeah, like we think that,
you know, this might not be the best fit.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
The usually won't go into detail, but then.

Speaker 4 (47:52):
We're like, okay, Like, if you don't think that, then
then we trust you.

Speaker 3 (47:57):
Is there anything about the program that we haven't covered
that you want in our audience? And now.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
I think, I mean, we we covered a lot.

Speaker 4 (48:07):
I mean, I think the main thing is that you know,
you might have feelings about how Rutgers Distance has been
run in the past, and we're changing the game Coach
Lexi and I, so we're excited about the future. I mean,
like we said, we're coming off of really good race
at Princeton. Like, my spirits are really high. Everyone's spirits
are really high. I know I talked about the guys,
but the ladies as well. We we have like a

(48:29):
strong group up front, and we're just looking to close
our pack a little bit, come big tens. But yeah,
like what you might think about Rutgers Distance in the
past is.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
Not how we're trying to do things moving forward.

Speaker 4 (48:41):
We want to bring, you know, the success that Coach
Gags brought back in the eighties. I know, it's obviously
an entirely different landscape now than it was back then,
but we can have that Rutgers pride, that New Jersey pride.
We have little New Jersey like outlines on the back
of our jersey. So I just like, like you have
you know, you're running with that on your back, Like

(49:03):
you're out there representing not just yourself, not your university,
but your whole state.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
And for the eighty.

Speaker 4 (49:09):
Five percent of the kids on the distance team that
are from New Jersey, like that's a pretty big deal
for them.

Speaker 3 (49:14):
Well, we love to hear hear that. Rich has always
been a cross country track and field nerd, but because
of the podcast, he's been getting me into this. So
we can't wait to see you guys at Big Tens
and then at Nationals too and rooting for New Jersey.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
Final floor, Rich, I got one more question, so, coach,
I'm a huge Gags fan, Okay. I can remember back
in the day during Penrilay's weekend, the Philadelphia Channel whatever
used to play from like eight o'clock in the morning
to the last race. And the one year they had

(49:55):
Gags miked up, and it was during the men's four
by mile and it was after they had lost the
previous night to Arkansas in the distance medley. So he
was just so fired up and animated. I've just been
a huge fan of him and everything he's done ever
since then, So, do you have a favorite gag story
that you could share with us?

Speaker 1 (50:17):
So, I guess it's not necessarily like one specific.

Speaker 4 (50:20):
Story, but like when I joined NJ and Y in
the fall of twenty twelve, like like I was saying, like,
my credentials were not nearly as good as like the
girls that I was coming to train with, but that
was like part of the reason why I wanted to
train with them, because I wanted to like push myself
to be the best.

Speaker 1 (50:37):
I could be.

Speaker 4 (50:39):
So he started calling me slow mo from my first
practice on.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
He was like he doesn't drink anymore.

Speaker 4 (50:47):
He you know, maybe dabbled in that back in the day,
but he was like sober then, and he's like the
day you break thirty seconds and the two hundred and
I'm cracking open an iced cold beer.

Speaker 1 (50:55):
And I was just like, oh no, am I really
that slow?

Speaker 4 (50:58):
But you know, it was just it became like more
of a running joke. And then just some of like
the little things that he say, like you never wanted
to be a b I B I was a bad
investment that he would kind of tease us, like, oh,
like if you're gonna do that, like you know, I
don't I.

Speaker 1 (51:11):
Don't need any more.

Speaker 4 (51:12):
Bi's on the team, so just like yeah, little things
like that to like tease us. But it was all
in good fun. I mean, he you could always hear
him across the track like to hit it, like in
a hard workout or even like in a race that
it's like okay, like you just know that that means
it's time to go. But yeah, it's the The NJ
and Y days were really fun. We I've kept in

(51:34):
contact with a couple of teammates from the team then
and we were actually at pre Big Tens had like
a little a mini reunion because one of our buddies
lives out there now, so we were just like kind
of reliving some of those stories with him, which was
really fun. But yeah, he's I mean he's back in
New Jersey now. He was in New York for a
little while, but yeah he's back in Jersey, still hanging.

(51:56):
I'm like, gags. Anytime you want to come to practice,
come on by. The Livingston track is just as windy
as it's always been. We have like these flags by
the track and you just know that you know when
this the flags are sticking straight out, It's going to
be a rough workout day.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
But it's been like that since we were then.

Speaker 4 (52:14):
That's kind of the other cool part about being back
at Rutgers now is that we use those facilities to train,
Like twenty twelve through twenty fourteen, I want to say so, like,
I've done numerous laps around our outdoor track. I've trained
in the bubble like, so when kids are kind of
talking about that, I'm like, oh, yeah, like I've been
here to train. Maybe not during my college days, but

(52:35):
I have trained on our facilities, and I know that
you know, the towpath, done tons of long runs on there.
I used to live in Highland Park for a little
bit of time after I moved out of my parents' place,
which is, you know, the town next to campus.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
So I'm like, like, I've lived this.

Speaker 4 (52:50):
I kind of can relate to what you guys are
going through being in college in this area.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
Illow to go one more so. Jimmy and I are
both out of state now. Jimmy's in Florida, I'm in
South Carolina. We've lived out west as well, but we
have a lot of pride in the fact that we're
from New Jersey. We were that, you know on our sleeve,
and we take a lot of pride in that you
mentioned the map of New Jersey on the back of
your singlets. Do the kids have a lot of pride

(53:19):
in the fact that they are from New Jersey or
is that's something that maybe comes after leaving the state
and then coming back to it or having that pride.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
No, I think they definitely do.

Speaker 4 (53:29):
I know, Like, what was that there's that Phil Murphy
like quote I whatever that it was like we're from Jersey, baby,
and you're not. Like that was kind of a little
like SoundBite that a lot of the team was like
whenever that went viral maybe last year or two years
ago or whatever it was. But yeah, Like I definitely
think the especially the kids from New Jersey and even
are out of state athletes, like once you're like on

(53:52):
the team and you're living in Jersey, like you're from
New Jersey now too. I mean they who wouldn't love
New Jersey and especially New Brunswick. Your clas to the beach,
you're you can like get out to like the country
ish like you know, you can go apple picking, pumpkin
picking in the fall, like you're not too far from
like going to upstate New York, you're not far from
the city, You're not far from Philly.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
I guess the city New York. That's always been my city.
I know some people think that the city is Philly,
but it's New York.

Speaker 4 (54:19):
You're close to all of these things. Like what's not
to love about New Jersey?

Speaker 2 (54:23):
Yeah, I saw a clip last night. It was I
don't even know who the actor was or who he was,
but it was for Esquire and they asked him. They
were like, what what is the most New Jersey thing
about you? And he's like, I'd have to say water.

Speaker 4 (54:44):
Which I almost feel like that's maybe a little bit
more of a South I don't know, because I feel
like I say water.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
I had a teammate actually in college.

Speaker 4 (54:52):
She was from Roxbury, and like we would laugh at
the way she said water like it was like water,
like what like that? But yeah, I guess you have
the different accents, like there's not one Jersey accent.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
There's like a bunch of bowl yours.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
Yeah for sure.

Speaker 3 (55:09):
Yeah, me and me and Rich get in arguments because
I still say wash with and are.

Speaker 2 (55:14):
Oh geez exactly on a four gym?

Speaker 3 (55:21):
Yes, sir, coach. Are you a coffee drinker? Yes, how
do you bring your coffee and how do you take it?

Speaker 4 (55:28):
So I will usually actually do like we just have
the Cure coffee pods at homes. I usually go with
Starbucks Pike Place, and then I actually recently, like probably
in the past year, have been doing the like just
like a vanilla protein shake into the coffee, so I
like get a little extra projein in the morning. Just
as I get older, I need to prioritize my protein intake.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
But when I am.

Speaker 4 (55:50):
Ordering from somewhere, like I love fall drinks, I love
pumpkin I'm one of those girls. So I'll have the
pumpkin like the cold or the whatever, the cold foam.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
Now that they put on top, Like I of that.

Speaker 4 (56:00):
So the Starbucks the pumpkin cold foam, cold.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
Brew whatever it's called.

Speaker 4 (56:08):
Like usually the first day it comes out like I'm
drinking that, but then now I'm almost kind of sick
of it a little bit and waiting for the Peppermin
drinks to come out.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
But yeah, definitely a coffee drinker.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
Peppermin's not too far off. I mean it's the pumpkin
spice back in August. So I could see how you
could get a little palette fatigue from it. Now that
we're in October, Coach, do you have any daily practices
or rituals you do on a regular basis to show
up as the strongest version of Nicole Starks?

Speaker 4 (56:38):
I guess really the main thing is, like I try
to work out like six times a week.

Speaker 3 (56:43):
Still.

Speaker 4 (56:44):
Obviously I'm not doing the level of running that I
once did, but I feel like having that, like getting the.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
Endorperens from my exercise is important.

Speaker 4 (56:53):
So right now I actually do like I'm on a
I try my best to do two days a week
running three to four miles, nothing crazy, two days staremaster
That's like actually, after having my daughter, like stairmastering has
been like a good way to like get almost like
that cardio fitness, but also like.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
Building a little bit of muscle in the lower body.

Speaker 4 (57:15):
So I try to do that two days a week
for thirty minutes and then I actually, I don't know
if you guys ever heard of this lagree fitness, So
that actually became like my like once I stopped running
in twenty sixteen, just with all my by then, I
had like a couple injuries that I had, you know,
kind of been brushing under the rug for a while
and like trying to take care of my.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
Body as a whole.

Speaker 4 (57:35):
The best way to describe it is like strength training
mixed with pilates.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
That's kind of what the founder created his own little method.

Speaker 4 (57:42):
So I actually teach at a local studio in Montclair
that a friend of mine opened up, and I try
to do.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
Those classes like twice a week.

Speaker 4 (57:49):
It's a lot of core, a lot of legs, like
basically just getting like a full body burn.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
So I try to do that twice a week.

Speaker 4 (57:56):
Then I feel like that's like the good balance that
I'm in, and then I take a rest once a week.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
I try that is like my ideal schedule.

Speaker 4 (58:03):
Sometimes I have a couple extra running days, especially when
we're like on the road and I'm like, oh, I'll
just run three miles today, like it's no big deal.
But we're not doing any more of those like fourteen
mile long runs. I don't do like track workouts anymore.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
That's a thing of the past, I think.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
Is the plates on a reformer.

Speaker 4 (58:22):
So it's actually on a they call it a megaformer,
so it's like a version of a reformer, but it's
been like souped up a little bit, but like, yeah,
I love like this the spring tension and like the
varying tension and stuff, and like I said, it's like
so much core work.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
I remember the first class I ever did.

Speaker 4 (58:36):
I was like, oh, like I'm coming off of like
running these seventy mile weeks, like this isn't going to
be that challenging.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
And then like I was sore for like.

Speaker 4 (58:44):
Three days, like I couldn't cough or laugh because my
like core was so sore.

Speaker 3 (58:49):
Yeah, coach, what are you listening to right now? Music? Podcasts,
audio books? Are you reading anything?

Speaker 4 (58:59):
I'm not a big reader. I like kind of hate reading,
but I don't consider myself a swiftie. But I have
been listening to Taylor Swift's new album.

Speaker 3 (59:09):
I do.

Speaker 4 (59:09):
I enjoy her new I have been enjoying her new album.
That's probably what I've been like listening to on my
way to work since it's come out. But I mean,
I guess I'm not like a big or like I
don't have one specific thing that I listen to. It's
kind of like whatever Spotify thinks I want to listen to,
I'll just whatever it curates for me, I'll just press play.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
Now you're a New Jersey native, So do you pump
your fist at all?

Speaker 4 (59:40):
That was a big thing in college even though that
we were down in Richmond, there was like a lot
of Jersey girls on the team, which is funny, which
is you know, going back to like now at Ruckers,
I'm trying to keep all of those kids at home and.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
Not going out of state.

Speaker 4 (59:52):
But yeah, like our I want to say, our top
like three girls or four girls in our top seven
were all from Jersey. So we were like it was big,
like in our social gatherings in college and it was like,
oh like Team Jersey versus team everybody else. And yeah,
we would like do the fist pumping a little bit,
but I try not to do that anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
Okay, Team Jersey, I love it. Coach last one to
close ass a lighthearted one. Maybe it's maybe you frequent
the not frequent, but maybe you stop at the food
trucks on college A Maybe it's a beverage. I know.
Coach Goodell is an avid golfer. You mentioned you're not
a swiftye but maybe you're a closet swifty. Do you

(01:00:33):
have a guilty pleasure?

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
Chick fil A milkshakes if that counts.

Speaker 4 (01:00:41):
Actually they don't have the the food trucks don't exist
at records anymore. They really that like hold, So that
plot of land I guess where the food trucks would
pull up. They now have like an actual like brick
and mortar place called are Are You Hungry? And that's
where they do like the fat sandwiches and stuff because
that was like what I guess was in a lot

(01:01:03):
of those food trucks. So now they actually have a
physical place. And actually now there's apartment or student living
but like apartment buildings like in that plot of land.
But yeah, they're they saved the fat sandwiches they do
still exist. But yeah, I am a big Chick fil
A lover. If you haven't tried their cherry berry frosted lemonade,
I highly recommend it. There's like the one part of

(01:01:24):
the year where it comes out. It's like that and
pumpkin at the same time. But like their cookies and
cream milkshake, you can never go wrong. But we have
we've done like some we did like a team one
of our team meals at the beginning of like pre
season that it was like we have a bunch of
meetings that day.

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
We're going to order food. I'm like, we're ordering Chick
fil a, Like, anytime I can order it, we're gonna
order it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:46):
What was it?

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
Cherry What?

Speaker 4 (01:01:48):
Cherry berry frosted lemonade? So like the regular frosted lemonade
is on their schedule, but this is like their seasonal flavor.
So uh, it's only here until I think the middle
of November, is what I saw. I have to get
it a couple more times before it goes away for
the year.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
And that's a milkshake.

Speaker 4 (01:02:04):
It's like it's kind of a milkshake because it's basically
like the lemonade mixed with vanilla ice cream.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
So like, I don't know if you've ever done their
frosted coffee. That's like the same thing.

Speaker 4 (01:02:13):
It's basically a coffee milkshake that they just mixed coffee
and they're soft served vanilla.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
It's really good.

Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
I know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
It's not a secret though.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
It's like you know, usted coffee.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
Yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:02:29):
Actually, the first time I had that was with our
throws coach and our pole vault coach.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
I think it was that like regionals or something.

Speaker 4 (01:02:35):
They were like sitting in the lobby and the poll
volt coach comes in with like his bags of Chick
fil A and I was like, what is that drink?
It's like it's frosted coffee, Like you never had that,
and I was like no, so I had to go
try it and it was really good and only like
a you can't do it in the in the cold though,
you have to do it thet they're the coffee one
at least.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
Wow. Yeah, learned something new today, jim.

Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
Yeah, now I know why the lines always out the
parking lot at Chick fil A. Yep, Coach Starks, thank
you so much for your time tonight. Can't wait to
see what the Scarlet Knights do for the rest of
the season and in indoor and outdoor track and field,
So thank you so much for your time, and.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
Thank you guys for having me. It was a great
conversation flew by.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
That's what we do over here at Aeric Brose. Yeah,
but it was an und pleasure to get to know
tonight coach, and best of luck at Big Ten's next week.
And as Jimmy said, we'll be rooting for the Scarlet
Knights in the postseason and definitely an indoor and outdoor
track as well.

Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
Thank you guys so much.

Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
All Right, ladies and gentlemen, that is coach Nicole Starks
from the Scarlet Knights the Rutgers University. To make sure
you check out those links in the show notes. Go
get the Scarlet Knights, harriers and track and field athletes
a little love. Let them know that Eric Bros. Sent you.
We will be back on Wednesday night. We'll be doing
a round table with some coaches from the Jayhaw Conference.
It's one of the strongest junior college conferences in the

(01:04:03):
nation and we're excited to talk to them about some
of their ranked teams heading into the postseason, across country
and the n j c AA. So we'll see on
Wednesday night.