September 11, 2025 • 53 mins
Director of Cross Country & Track & Field Sean Robinson joins Airey Bros Radio to unpack how he’s building Drew University into a Division III contender—after a decorated two-decade run at Morris Hills HS (10 state titles, 21 sectionals, NJSCA Hall of Fame). We cover honest D3 recruiting (why grades = money), the value of liberal arts & internships near NYC, data-driven training with gait analysis, and the mindset shift from “win” to “win or learn.” Robinson also details Drew’s first All-American (Sage Hendershot, 2024), school records, and hosting the Landmark Conference XC meet.You’ll hear about:
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• Coaching: Black Sheep Endurance
• Buy Me a Coffee (links in show notes)
Show Notes / Chapters
- Building a D3 program from the ground up—staffing, systems, culture
- D3 merit aid vs. athletic $$$ and how academics unlock offers
- Campus/training: “The Forest,” trail access, Madison safety, NYC internships
- Managing athletes in the social-media era: focus > comparison
- Hands-on coaching: gait analysis, injury prevention, Google Classroom workflows
- 2025 outlook: deeper rosters, first meet notes, and hosting Landmark XC
Follow & Support Airey Bros Radio: YouTube (@Aireybros)
• Instagram (@aireybrosradio) • Spotify & Apple Podcasts
• Coaching: Black Sheep Endurance
• Buy Me a Coffee (links in show notes)
Show Notes / Chapters
- 00:55 — Why Airey Bros spotlights D2/D3/NAIA/NJCAA programs
- 02:00 — Robinson’s Drew milestones: first All-American (Sage Hendershot), school records
- 04:40 — Jersey icebreaker: Taylor Ham vs. pork roll
- 05:40 — Origin story: basketball to XC, Kutztown University, teacher-coach roots
- 08:45 — Morris Hills → Drew: choosing the next mountain, vision for the program
- 10:50 — The reality of college coaching: recruiting never stops
- 14:15 — D3 truth: merit aid, academics, and why grades = money
- 18:00 — What Drew is known for: Business, Marketing, Education, History, Theater
- 19:45 — Training environment: trails from campus, Madison safety, NYC access
- 22:05 — Internships that still fit practice (train to Penn Station)
- 22:57 — Program momentum: jumps group growth driven by All-American success
- 24:58 — Staff as “clinicians,” CEO leadership without micromanaging
- 26:20 — Hands-on coaching: gait analysis, injury prevention, Google Classroom
- 33:10 — “Win or learn”: reframing failure & athlete mental health
- 37:50 — Advice to HS recruits: trust your coach, limit comparison, love the process
- 40:57 — Training talk: thresholds, biochemistry-backed decisions
- 45:10 — Why “Drew is the stone,” not a stepping stone
- 45:55 — 2025 notes: NJIT Alumni opener; hosting Landmark XC at Oak Ridge
- 47:04 — Rapid fire: black coffee, mirror pep talks, Foo Fighters, single-digit golf HC
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to Airy Brose Radio be there or B
Square because it's all killer, no filler. This is Sean
Robinson and you're listening to Aery Bros. Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Ladies and gentlemen, howdy and aaloha. Welcome to another episode
Airy Brose Radio Live. We are here, you are there,
and you are now rocking with the best. Tonight we
are heading back on to the track and on to
the oval with director of cross country and track and
field that Drew University, Sean Robinson. But before we get
(00:43):
into it, you know the drill. Make sure you hammer
that like button, drop a comment, every view, review and
share air helps and grow and get back to the
sports we love. Following us on Instagram, YouTube, Spotify and
Apple podcast and as always, let's not forget while we're here.
We're here to shine a light on the programs, people
and stories we wish we had access to growing up.
If you or someone you know who is chasing their
(01:04):
dreams in track and field across country, please share this
episode with them now. Tonight's guest, as I mentioned, Sean Robinson,
director of cross country in track and Field, is joining
us from Drew University. He's entering his fifth year and
third year with the track and field team, leading both
the men's and women's program. He coached Drew's first ever
(01:24):
track and field All American Sage Hendershot in twenty twenty four.
Both indoor and outdoor developed stars like Toby Gaynor, a
three time All Landmark, two time All Region, and school
history record maker, Kate Rice, who broke Drew's all time
five K and six K records in her season debut.
And you may know Coach Robinson from his time at
(01:45):
Morris Hills, where he built a dynasty, winning ten state titles,
twenty one sectional championships, multiple national level relay teams, and
an induction into the NJSCA Hall of Fame in twenty fifteen.
With out further ado, it is an honor and a pleasure,
and we do greatly appreciate your time this evening, Coach Robinson, welcome.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
To the show.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Thank you, coach.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Before we get too far into it, anywhere you want
us to send recruits, parents, anyone that has questions they
want to get in touch with you, Wherever you want
people to find you or find the program on social media,
or wherever the floor is yours.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah, I mean I think the key thing is always,
you know, for any recruit you want to always start
with the recruiting questionnaire. You know, in our case of
you know Drew University, you know you know dot com
or you know Drew dot eedu. You know, we we
use uh, you know, you got to be involved with
in stuff. So that's kind of where where everything's going now.
(02:46):
So we you know, we have new numerous outlets there
as well. So that's basically that's basically it for us.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
We'll put all that stuff in the show notes for
you as well. And Coach, probably the most supporting question
we're going to ask you all evening. As a Jersey guy,
we like to ask all of our Jersey guests this
question is a pork roller.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Taylor Ham.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
H I gotta go Taylor Ham. I'm I'm I'm in
the North, so I like you like Taylor Ham.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
All right, all right.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
We've had a couple of North Jersey coaches, mostly from
the wrestling side, but we do know that they love
their Taylor Ham up there above the above the bridge
and anywhere down south or at the shore where we're from.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
It's it's it's pork role.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
But we as our friend and guest Former guest Dave
Santa Maria said, I don't care what you called as
long as I.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Get my sandwich, no doubt.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
So coach, you know, we we followed you for a while.
I was coaching when you were at Morris Hills and
you get into an unbelievable job there. But I'm curious
and one thing we like to find out. We all
have our origin to our origins, story to the sport.
What what got you into running where you where you're
an a league coming up? Did you run in high school?
(04:01):
In college? And when did coaching become a thing for you?
Speaker 1 (04:06):
You know, I was fortunate. You know, my dad was
the basketball coach at my high school. I was a
basketball player my entire life. He said, hey, why don't
you go out for for cross country to get ready
for the fourth quarter? Long story short. My junior year,
the second race, I won this big race in Scranton
and decided I need to take a little more seriously
(04:27):
and just really fell in love with the sport, had
an opportunity to run at Kustin University, and just had
a lot of great people around me. You know that
just just really made the sport great. You know, we
all have those stories, right, we talked about running fast,
but really for me, it's a relationships that you make
(04:50):
along the way. And I think that's what connects all
of us, is that we all understand how difficult our
sport is. And you know, I come from a family
of educator and I had the opportunity to, you know,
to teach and coach. You know, I was a biology
teacher for twenty six years and it really kind of
for me, it kind of goes hand in hand, right,
I mean coaching. To be a really good coach, you
(05:11):
got to be a great teacher. And I think the
education I got it, you know, at Kutztown along my
own high school. Then having family members that were all educators,
I got to kind of it was modeled for me.
And this, this truly is a profession of service. You know,
when when you want to really get good at good
(05:32):
at this, you have to make that transition from athlete
where you're kind of selfish and you have to be
really good. You have to be selfish, and then when
you when you coach, you have to make the big shift.
It's not about you anymore. It's really about you, know,
what can you do to to bring people together and
help them individually through their journey because it's it's really
about them. And I know.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Yeah, So coach, when were we at Kutztown?
Speaker 1 (05:58):
So I was in I was at Goodstown starting to three,
so I was there from ninety three to ninety eight.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
So you happened to run at the regional meet in
cross country in the fall of nineteen ninety three when
they had the fire going there.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
I was there.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Okay, I was there too. We were there.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
I ran.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I remember my freshman year, I ran to Springfield College
in Massachusetts.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
That was. That was a great race. Yeah, if I
remember correctly ran the line. It was snowing too that
it was just starting to come down. But yeah, great,
great day that was.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
That was a wild day.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
So, you know, you did amazing things with Morris Hills.
Was was college coaching something that was ever on your radar?
Or did that opportunity pop up and you figured let
me put my name in the hat?
Speaker 4 (06:52):
You know?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
It was a weird thing, right, I really wasn't thinking
about it. I loved my time at Morris Bills. It's
you know, it's always Go Hills for the rest of
my life. It's just it's such a it's such a
brotherhood there in history. You know. I was fortunate to
be under the tutelage of Jack O'Leary, who you know,
(07:14):
had a great coaching career, and you know, to have
his connections to Jumbo Elliott and to have that influence
on me at A as a young coach, you know,
which is really inspiring to me. And I just really
enjoyed the history of the school so much and was
you know, was willing to work for it. But you know,
(07:36):
you get to a point, right I was just ready
to climb a new mountain. I think that's really what
it came down to. I you know, we had other
assistant coaches in the program that I had coached. I
felt they were ready to take the reins. And you know,
there was an opportunity that Drew. I had so many
teams winning this building here and I'm just like, you
(07:58):
know why, I talked to my wife my family, said
I really want to take a shot at this. I
want to bring high level cross country and eventually track
and field to Drew. And you know, kind of with
their blessing that they allowed me to take my shot.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
Coach, What was the biggest transition or maybe growing pain
for you leaving More Sills going to Drew.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
But you know, and more skills were used to winning,
right like right, I mean, you know, winning is a
lot of fun. But you know, I think you know
some people will understand, like all the work, all the pieces,
you know, you know, we're winning at More Sills. It
it wasn't just me. We we had so many great
people that were involved with it. And you know, I
(08:45):
knew I was going to have to put great people
around me to build this thing at Drew and just
kind of like just change the culture and that whole
attitude of what it takes to win. And you know,
we're still making that line. You know, we we have
more work to do, but it's it's it's been so
much fun to watch this thing grow and you know,
(09:08):
just the work ethic and the excitement of the student
athletes here. So I knew what I signed up for.
I'm blessed to have an a d and Chris the
ray Seine who was also a former track and field
coach at Morris Catholic and kind of understands what goes
into track and field coaching and cross country coaching. So
(09:29):
that was another big thing for me taking the job
is is I think you have to have somebody an
administration that actually gets it, you know. So that was
the reason why I wanted to sign up for this,
and I wanted I wanted to do something local, you know,
I want to do it right here, and I've always
liked doing hard things and I knew this thing was
(09:52):
going to be hard, and it just kind of motivated
me more to do it.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
So.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
I know you said winning came easy for you guys
at Morris Hill, but we also know being a college
coach is a full time job and there's some other
things that you have to do as a college coach
you might not have to do as a high school
coach or just might be on a bigger spectrum than
what you do. What was the biggest kind of shock
(10:16):
for you as far as a role of the position
that you might have not been ready for or you
didn't realize how much time it took.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yeah, recruiting, recruiting, recruiting. It does not stop. And it
doesn't matter how good of a coach I am or
I think that I am there. You have to you
have to land the student athlete right, and at Morris
Hills it kind of recruited itself, right is you know,
you know, we were taking kids from Rockaway and Warton
(10:47):
and you know, and making them into things right and
doing the work. But in college, you you have to
you have to knock on doors, phone calls, you know, texting,
it's just NonStop, and it's it's every day, you know.
So I think that was the hard is the coaching
I can do, you know, it's just learning the tricks
(11:09):
and the secrets of how to really recruit well. And
that's a whole other separate thing. And you know, I
continue on that journey and uh, hey, I'm gonna hold
myself accountable, accountable. I got more to go.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
You know.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
I feel like I'm still like an infant recruiter, you know, right,
but we have made some great gains and I'm definitely
learning that process of when to do things and when
not to do things, and and also be respectful to
the student athletes.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Well, I would imagine too, as a New Jersey high
school coach at More Sales, for as long as you were,
you've made great friendships with a lot of different coaches
from a lot of different parts of the state. Whether
you know your fierce rivalries and competitors at some point,
you know, you're friendly about it, and would imagine that
kind of helps recruiting within the state.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
It definitely helps. And you know, I didn't burn a
lot of bridges you know along the way, you know,
which I think is good. Yeah, some of them are
still figuring out that I'm here, right, They're they're still
used to seeing me in the red and white, and
I'll be able to meet with the Drew stuff like
what are you doing? Like I'm not Drew now, you
know what I mean. So so that part has been fun.
(12:25):
But yeah, it's just it's getting the information out. And
there's so many great high school coaches that you know,
I respect, you know it, They're doing the hard work.
You know. It's just you know, but it's worth it,
you know. And I think that those are the programs
and the coaches I gravitate towards, just because I know
(12:47):
the type of student athlete that we're going to get.
So that that has been very helpful.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
You're also in a I think a unique situation is
are there any other Division two track of old programs
cross country programs in New Jersey?
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Well, well, where we're well, Drew is a D three.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
I'm sorry Division three.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yeah, we're definitely D three. Okay, Yeah, we're part of
the Landmark Conference. You know what what is unique is
we're the only Jersey school in the Landmark So I yeah,
which is you know that's kind of interesting, right, you
know where we can recruit, We can pull kids from
Long Island some of those areas that they're more willing,
(13:28):
you know, to take the track to Drew versus some
of the other schools. So yeah, so we're we're kind
of learning, you know, where where our Loulcal kids really
come from.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Okay, because so being a Division three school, we all
know that recruits parents.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
They want money.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Yeah, they think their kid is going to get a
full ride. They talk to the Joneses down the street,
and Johnny got got money to go to Division one school.
But doing this podcast, one thing we realize is just
because you get money doesn't mean you're not paying money.
So get into kind of the fine details of what
you guys can offer kids, what kids can get academically,
(14:07):
things like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Sure, I mean most D threes are gonna be in
the same boat as us, right, I Mean, Drew has rigor.
It's known for its academics, you know, long standing. So
you know, I always tell recruits, you know, when when
I'm recruiting, the first thing I'm doing this, I'm looking
at your grades. You know. I I may like you athletically,
but I got to know can you actually make it
in our environment? You know? Are you gonna be nc
(14:32):
DOUAA eligible? You know? Are you actually a good student?
And I think so many times, you know, we we
kick around the term student athlete. Okay, but like I'll tell, like,
you know, we have real ones that drew you know
what I mean, like, like you you actually got to
live that, you know, so I can't stress enough. You know,
(14:56):
if you have good grades, then yeah, you're you're going
to get a nice merit financial package. And that's really
for any D three school, right is that's the priority
that that's really in the language from the ncuble A,
you know, in regards to D three it's a little
bit of a shift. And that's probably why I belong
(15:17):
here too. I'm an educator. You know, I actually care
about my kids doing something else beyond running fast, you know,
like I want them to have a chance at a
professional job and to do something that they really enjoy.
And are passionate about so I can't stress enough. You know,
there's got to be more emphasis on doing the little
(15:39):
things to be a good student, just like they would
maybe put the effort into being an athlete. It's got
to transfer over to the classroom. And the better your grades,
the more money I'm gonna be able to get you.
And I have no problem going to bat with admissions
in regards to that. But yeah, you've got to have
the grades. You've got to show me that you're going
(16:01):
to class, that you're consistent, you're you're taking some of
the harder classes, you know that kind of fit into
maybe like the liberal arts type setting. But I think
many times kids are sold on this, well, you know,
I'm gonna I'm gonna get this big athletic scholarship, and
they don't realize this stuff would full ride. It doesn't
(16:24):
really exist that much. That's the hard reality. It doesn't
mean we can't get that price point down, you know.
I always tell kids to get offers, you know, because
if you get an offer and then we can do
a financial appeal. There's a lot of ways we can
do that. But if you don't have the grades, it's
not it's just not gonna work, coach.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
This is one of the main reasons why I love
talking to Division three coaches, because you guys make me
realize that I should have spent as much time in
the books. I probably would have got more money in
the books than just worrying about what I did on
the wrestle. On that, so I really appreciate you bringing
that up. And I always talk talk to my cousins
kids and things like that, Hey, spend more time or
(17:08):
not more time, but just as much time, yes, studying
because that will give you more opportunities, and that's what
you want. And thank you for saying, hey, you're probably
not going to get a full ride that that is
a myth. I think that's another point we need to
drive home more. So thank you for bringing that up.
You also said that Drew is heavy academics, so kind
of getting into what the school is known for, what
(17:30):
kids are going there for.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
You know, we have a really strong business department, you know,
business marketing. I feel like our education department is certainly
on the rise. They're set up kids. Well, you know,
I history is killer here. You know, if you want
to talk about like theater and drama and arts, you
(17:52):
know that very successful. What I like about Liberal Arts
and what we do here is I feel our advisors
do a great job customizing, you know, the education for
the kids to set them up. You know, many times
they have to go to grad school, and I think
they I think Drew does a great job of saying, hey,
if this is the end game, how do we get there,
(18:14):
and let's make sure that we're applying to the schools
that we need to be getting into. You know. So
I think a lot of kids don't understand the whole
undergrad graduate thing, you know, when they're when they're kind
of planning for their careers. And I feel our counselors
and our advisors do a really good job, you know,
with our student and athletes in that in that regard.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Coach, what's the campus like, you guys? I know, we're
sure guys.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
So North Jersey is like a foreign land to us
up there. You know, not that we're as bad as
some people where they are all their only point of
references like what they see from the Sopranos, or like
Jersey Lisius, or like what people do with the Jersey
Shore with us from different places, but you know, what's
the campus? Like training grounds for you know, especially from
(18:59):
at runers perspective, across country runners. You have parks and
different things like that for the guys and goals to
go run at.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yeah, I mean we're a hitding gym. I say it
all the time. You know, we're a mussy. I love
it when kids come on campus because they're kind of
blown away. Uh, it's just a beautiful campus. We call
it the Forest. We we have a lot of these
old trees that are on campus. I think you know
what they do with the grounds and you know the
architecture of the buildings, and then you know we're right there.
(19:30):
We're right by Lawonica. You know Brook Reservation Trail. You
can run right there from campus. We have Gilda Farms,
we have the Traction Line. I mean there's just great
running here, you know, in a beautiful setting. And then
you can walk downtown to Madison. Madison was ranked the
(19:51):
number one safest college town in New Jersey and it's
actually number three in the country. So we're pretty proud
of that. Right you know, my son is here, my
daughter just graduated. You know, that's my best recruiting tool.
There's no way I send my own blood to a
school if if I think it was safe and awesome
(20:11):
and you know, a really really good education, and you
know Drew has all of that. No, we're small. If
you're looking for a big school, don't go to Drew, right,
I mean, if you're looking for a small school where
you know people are gonna actually know you and invest
time into you. You know, we're about two thy twenty
(20:32):
three hundred, you know, strong, we have commuters on. But
like I say, even though we're small, we do big things.
And the big things we do is we really help
people land their jobs. And I think that's probably the
biggest selling point. You know. I'm very proud of our
professors and what and what they do. They hold the
(20:54):
kids accountable, and I feel our advisors really go out
of their way to set them up for success.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Talking about setting up for success and getting jobs, lending
jobs after college, you know, one of the things we
like to hear about too. And some of the coaches,
some of the schools have unique things in terms of internships,
and I think it was we had a coach, Matt
entry On from the University of Chicago. He said one
of his wrestlers he had a summer internship where he
made sixty thousand dollars. So it was like, wow, I
(21:26):
thought that internship. Yeah, same here here. So does does
Drew have those sorts of opportunities? I know you guys
are relatively close to New York as well. I'm sure
yeahs itself.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Well, yeah, what's great is, you know, they have different opportunities.
You know, they can actually hook you know, hook a
rod in the train, you know, takes the rent and
Penn station. I know, you know, especially like on the
business end of it. They can go to Wall Street.
They have internships where they go in for the day.
I have kids that are doing that and they're actually
(21:58):
back in practice time, which it makes coach happy, you know.
So you know again, I think having you know, New
York City that close to us has been you know,
is a big deal for the university, and they take
advantage of it.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
Yeah, because you said one of the biggest differences between
Morris Hills and Drew was winning that said twenty twenty four,
you guys had your first track and Field All American.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
How big was that for the program?
Speaker 1 (22:27):
No, it it's huge. I mean because it was so hard, right,
and I think it's it's the struggle you know, like
you take a kid like Sage Hender's shot. There was
not a lot of people recruiting her. I actually saw
her the first time, like one of the Drew series meets,
and I saw her compete and I went after coach
(22:49):
and I'm like, where is she going? And they're like,
we don't know if she's going anywhere. I said, no,
that's changing, and just kind of talking to parents and
really worked it out. And she didn't even long jump
in high school, which is crazy. So we have all
these tests that we do and I remember when we
tested her, you know, on her broad jumps, it was
it was definitely like off the charts. I'm like, you're
(23:11):
a long jumper, you know, we need to kind of
shift you. And she's raw. I mean, if we can
keep her healthy, she's gonna have a chance to win
a national title because the kids that she's jumping against
have been jumping for a very long time and she's
still learning the event. So we're pretty excited about that,
and it just it kind of sets the stage for
(23:33):
other things, right, and now the other athletes say, hey, wait,
I want a piece of that action. I want to
do the work, I want to be that good right,
and that's kind of it builds on itself. It's it
certainly have helped our recruiting. We've got a lot more
jumpers looking at Drew University because of what stage is done.
And you know, that's how it goes. We have to
earn it, you know, like at the end of the day,
(23:56):
no one cares what I did it more ses they
what can I do it here? You know? And I
understand that process, and I'm willing to do the dig,
you know, And I'm so blessed to have great coaches
around me that share that passion. And uh, you know,
we definitely have a vision here and we've got more
to do, more work to do, and we're going to
do it.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
You say, you late, you're grateful that you have great
coaches around you. And we know as a college coach,
you're a CEO of the business. So what does your
CEO position look like? And how do you delegate to
those assistant coaches?
Speaker 1 (24:32):
You know what I like the hire coaches that I
know that I can stay out of their way. You know,
my job is to put them in position of impact.
The coaches I've had, I've known them for a very
long time, I trust them. Uh, they were either like
a former athlete of mine or someone that I coached
(24:52):
against for a very long time. So I've been blessed.
I have resources, right, I know a lot of people
in our in our sport, and I know how they
go about their business. And that's my main job is
to is to put them in a position of impact.
I'm not a micromanager. I'm more like, hey, I'm gonna
give you the tools. I'm going to give you the resources,
(25:14):
now go. And I think my coaches appreciate that, you know,
And uh, I have full faith and it's working, you know.
I I I like to sit back and watch them
in action, you know what I mean. And you know,
I'm constantly asking, you know, what do you need from
me to make your job better? And I think they,
(25:36):
you know, they're gonna work harder for me because of that.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
As a director, are you still doing some x's and
o's for for the distance guys and that sort of stuff?
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yeah, No, I mean I'm listen. I'm a hand I'm
a hands on guy, you know. Uh. And when you're
a high school coach, you have to coach numerous events.
So yeah, I mean I'm pushing out training. We used
to good a classroom so our athletes it's going and
right to their phone. I'm really big into gat analysis,
(26:05):
so I spend a lot of time in research. I'm
giving kids scores, you know, so we're into injury prevention.
So I'm still coaching my butt off. I mean, I
don't want to, you know, you have to be right,
you know, at this level, I have to be involved.
I don't I don't get to just sit in my
office and just recruit. I have to be in there
(26:27):
doing the dig with them. And that's my main role, right.
My main role is to is to really guide our
our cross country and distance program, you know, in our
middle distance. But I can coach sprinters, I can coach hurdlers.
I can get in there, you know. And many times,
you know, my my my coaches were colleagues, right, They'll
they'll last for my opinion, and when they ask, I
(26:50):
give it to them, you know. I mean they may
want me to look at something or or vice versa.
And I think that's where we're at is. You know,
I have clinicians on my coaching staff, like they they
could run their own clinic in their event. And that's
kind of the bar I've set. You know, if you're
gonna come work with me, I expect you to be
(27:12):
at that level. And I think they understand that, and
the and the and honestly, the kids that were coaching,
I feel they deserve it, right. I mean, you guys
get it. You get one shot, right. I don't get I.
I don't have time to get this wrong. I have
to be great for my student athletes. I have to
give them every opportunity because once it's.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Over, it's over, and it goes quick. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Right. And I I could ask you guys the question,
if you had the opportunity to go back and relive it,
I think you probably would do it in a heartbeat,
because I know I would. It was that important. It
was such an important time in my life and really
set me up for my life. And in a cheesy way,
I remind myself of that daily.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
And I think that's an important perspective to have as
a coach. You know, I'm coaching high school cross country
right now and down here in South Carolina, and Jimmy
and I were just talking about cross country practice and stuff,
and I think that's a it's good to hear reminders
like that. So I appreciate you sharing that perspective, and
it's good to have those little reminders every once in
(28:22):
a while.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
It's like, yeah, because coaching is coaching is hard.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Yes it is.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
It just is right. It's the best. It is the
best because it right, because the kids don't care if
you've had a bad day. You know, they you know,
and it takes an extreme amount of patience, but man,
is it worth it. It is so worth it.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Well, cross country season is upon us. Are the kids
back on campus? How how's things looking for the fall?
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I'm super jazzed for this year. It's just, you know,
all these kids are my recruit Uh, none of them
are left over. And it's no offense to you know,
to the coaching staff that was here before. You know,
they were a little bit handcuffed, you know. Brain track
and field here was a big deal for our cross
country program and I and I knew it would be.
(29:16):
We have a lot of great young recruits that have
come in and I have enough you know, senior leadership.
Now we we have that dynamic. Both our men and
women actually trained the way I feel they needed to
over the summer. That was another big shift. We're not
gonna have to spend all season trying to get people
in shape. I felt like they came in pre season, uh,
(29:37):
you know, ready to go. So yeah, I'm just very
excited about the season and you know, keeping people healthy
and you know they're bought in. We have a team.
I just I like the culture. We had a very
good time trial last week, and I like our compression.
You know, we you know, we kind of started out
having like some standouts and now I feel like we're
(29:58):
actually it almost it almost feels like a Hills team.
We're not there yet, but it's it's I'm starting, Oh
my gosh, wait, I'm starting to get those feels again.
And and just to kind of see where we were
to what we are now. It's just been you know,
I feel blessed to be here and to have the
opportunity to do this. All Jersey kids, well, no, we
(30:25):
have a few kids coming out of PA in New York,
mostly Jersey. Yeah, but they're starting to sprinkle in and
from the triy you know, state area, and that's been fun.
It's been fun to kind of see that gel yeah,
you know, and we're just getting a lot more traffic.
You know on our recruiting questionnaires and you know people
(30:45):
are actually looking at us to come here for track
and field cross country, which I think is great.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
You get a little bit of a friendly trash talking
amongst the different states. Who's got you know, better better
athletes or better food, better sports teams?
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Oh no, no, it's that's what it is, right, That's
what it is. But hey, if we want, if we
want to trash talk, you can just look at the
Olympics and uh, you know who's coming out in New Jersey.
And I think it's not an argument anymore.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
True.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
Coach, you said that this is your first season where
all the recruits or are yours? Are you where you
thought you would be? Are you ahead of schedule? Behind
schedule when you took the job?
Speaker 1 (31:32):
We're close, right, I mean, I I'm really hard on myself, right,
I'm gonna hold myself accountable because that's how I'm wired.
I'm going to blame myself before I blame a student athlete, right,
I mean, that's how that's how it goes. Sometimes I
think a part of me always wanted it yesterday, right,
(31:53):
But the reality is I know what I signed up for,
and I can handle delayed gratification. That that's kind of
our generation, right I. I I grew up without a
cell phone, right, I don't need an instant you know,
and you know and I understand we have to earn it, right,
(32:17):
we have to earn it. And the only way to
do that is to stay with it even on the
really hard days. And I believe in having a good loss,
you know, I mean I I believe in those things.
Right is sometimes you need to just get your butt
kicked to to just to kind of bring some clarity.
(32:39):
And but the thing with me and I and I
instilled it in my student athletes, I am not scared
to fail. I've had. I mean, people, look at the
success I've had so much failure along that journey, and
I've learned more from that failure than I have from
the successes. And I will re up. That's probably be
(33:00):
one of my strongest qualities. I'm not scared to fail,
and I will take it in stride. I will be
positive with my kids. And my takeaway with them is
we're either gonna win or we're gonna learn. I want
them to be in an environment where they are allowed
to fail, and they need to embrace that failure. I
think so many times that it kind of leads to
(33:21):
anxiety and depression. And you know, there's there's this whole
pushing NCAA about about mental health, and I think that's
one way I can begin to chip away at that,
just to kind of to restructure or refrain how they
approach it.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
Because you said you're not afraid to fail, rich and
I we're not afraid to fail either, we know, but
as older gentlemen, I believe we've come to that right.
We as young kids, we wanted to win everything. We
wanted to win every practice, everything. Do you find the
kids have a little bit harder of a buying for that,
(33:57):
or because you're so accepting of the failure that they
kind of buy into it a little faster.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Here's what I've discovered, and it's generational. Right. I grew
up in a time I would go to the race.
I didn't know what my competitor did the week before.
I didn't know what training they did. You know, I
went kind of like clean slate. I was given an
assignment and I was to do my assignment, and I'm
sure I beat people that I had no business beating
(34:25):
because I was just told that I was supposed to
beat this individual of that, and I didn't know all
their you know, their statistics. A lot of the kids today,
they're so into tune of what's going on on social media,
you know, mile split direct athletics. All the information is there,
and I really think it is paralysis by analysis, right,
is they're just they're inundated with information and they're constantly
(34:48):
comparing themselves to someone else's journey. And I think that's
a tough place to live to be really good, because
you're not really kind of focused on the simple thing
things like competing. Right. So my main job is to
simplify it down to kind of get them back to
(35:09):
what I think is recognizable that's going to allow them
to perform at a high level. And it's harder now
because they do they do live on their cell phone
a lot of them, and it's someone It's not even
their fault, right, These algorithms are all they're geared for addiction, right,
and a lot of times their mind isn't mature enough
(35:29):
to really kind of process what's going on. So that's
where I feel I have to step in almost have
like a digital detox and help them to kind of
process what's going on and to really stick to process.
So that's what I'm discovering is they have very different
challenges than what you or I might have had when
(35:51):
we were competing, because it's just a different time. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
I think it's one of those things where when the
internet first came about and there was all the access
to the information, and it was different talk about training
and different things, and maybe people weren't necessarily focused on
you know, the results or what this person was doing
or that person was doing, and just more information was
getting out there. That's what we saw, like you know,
early two thousands when like distance running in the US
(36:19):
kind of jumped that level and you know, we started
to take off. But now it seems like, yeah, it's
more of this comparison, Oh this person did that or
that person did that, whereas maybe in that beginning push
it was like, oh, I can do this, and I'm
going to do that or I'm going to beat that,
and not necessarily oh the comparison. It's interesting how that's
kind of worked unfortunately. Yeah, coach, what advice do you
(36:47):
have for high school kids? You know, you were a
high school coach for many years. Kids that are chasing
those dreams that want to run in college, be an
athlete in college. Do you have any advice for those kids.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
I think the key thing is, you know, you can
only really kind of serve like one person, right. I
think there's so much information. There's a lot of good
coaches out there, and I think you can get cold
in different directions, and I think the key thing is
is to really trust in your coach. You may not
(37:19):
always agree with their philosophy or how they're going about it,
but many times they're in that position for a reason,
and there's got to be some faith and some trust,
and it's not going to be immediate, right. There might
be things that they can do that they're going to
get quicker results, but I think most coaches are in
(37:41):
it for the long haul, and I just find athletes
kind of like, you know, that whole concept. But a
little knowledge is a dangerous thing and there's so much
information out there, So I would just I would just
tell athletes, you know, just kind of trust a little
bit more. Understand that one race or one bad race
(38:06):
isn't going to determine your entire season. Try to stay
off the socials as much as possible, especially when people
start talking about this, that or the other. You know,
it just kind of like quiet the mind and enjoy
the process of getting good. You know, I don't know
about you, but I love that whole process of the
(38:27):
training and and you know, working on my own personal records, right,
I think so many times, well, this person's running this
or this person's doing that. And you know, at the
end of the day, we're all different, right, and we're
all wired different, and it's the coach's job is to
kind of figure out, hey, how does that athlete tick?
You know, we can have all these great training methodologies,
(38:49):
but there's the science the coaching, and there's the method
you know, like the art of coaching. And I would
like to think that I work really hard to kind
of lend the two for the athlete, But the athlete
need they need to trust a little bit more. That
would be my biggest suggestion. Even if they don't agree
with it. You got to give the coach the opportunity.
(39:11):
You got to you got to go through the process.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
With all that being said, how often do you get
asked to do double threshold training? Where is that a thing?
Speaker 3 (39:24):
At Drew?
Speaker 4 (39:27):
You know?
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Wow? I The good thing for me, right is I
can hang with him because I typically, I mean, I'm
in I'm constantly reading all of this and all the
different training methodologies, and I can fire back with, you know,
what is doing to their biochemistry and what we're trying
to achieve for the given day. I keep it pretty
simple in my athletes. I simply tell them this and
(39:49):
I've earned this. They can always ask me a question.
They just can't question, you know, and they they they
they don't always know what that means at first, but
then I remind them that I've been doing this longer
than they've been on the planet. Yeah, and that I'm
gonna make less mistakes than they are at the training
part of it. And it doesn't make me better than them.
(40:12):
It's just that I've lived and I make very few
mistakes now just because I've made them, you know. And
I think that's the key thing is I've been in
enough you know, situations with you know, you know, from
working with freshmen from the ground up to the high
school level to you know, to get them to be
an All American at the high school level, and that
whole journey, you know, it does provide me with the
(40:38):
expertise to to get it right, you know, and like
you guys, I hold myself accountable to that. You know,
I feel I can get better. I'm still getting better
because I know, I know, I don't know everything. You know,
I know a lot, I know more than most, but
(40:59):
I can still get better and so and I've preached
that with my athletes too. Let's just get better. But
can we just focus on that?
Speaker 4 (41:11):
Couch. I appreciate your philosophy and I appreciate your mindset.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
So thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
It's very refreshing to have this conversation with you and
dig into your perspective. I think anyone looking for college
running in New Jersey, Drew's a good option for him.
So thank you for your time tonight. Is there anything
about Drew University and the track and field program that
we haven't talked about that you'd like our audience to know.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
I would just say that Drew is a people you know,
you can come look at our buildings, you can look
at our indoor track facility. You know, we got a thing,
great things to offer. What brought me to the school,
it was the people. And I don't know how else
to explain it. They're just there's kindness here. But there's
(42:01):
also purpose, and I feel that every day with my colleagues,
you know, and I just I just know I'm at
a special place and if I can give a student
athlete opportunity to experience that, then I want to do that.
Speaker 4 (42:15):
Rich The more and more we talk to coaches like Sean,
how many times do we hear it's the people. It's
not the buildings, it's the people.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
People in relationships, time after time. Coach, I got one
last one for you. I'm curious, do you miss teaching biology?
Speaker 1 (42:32):
You know what I do a side hustle. I do
have a tutoring business. I do keep myself on the game.
I love teaching biology. I mean that's you know, my
dad was a science teacher. It's in my blood. You know.
I got to work with some amazing there's amazing science
(42:53):
teachers at Morris Hills. I got to teaching the Academy
for Maths, Science and Engineering. So yeah, I I mean
lying to you but said that I don't really miss
it that much. I missed the kids. I missed teaching
ap bio because you know what it is. It it
was like teaching like academic athletes, you know what I mean,
like being a coach actually helped me in the classroom too, right,
(43:15):
because I was really kind of coaching these individuals how
to really learn biology, but then also to perform on
a test. So I do miss that part of it.
But to do what I'm doing now, I have a
lot of responsibility and I need to be great for
my student athletes. So it was the move.
Speaker 4 (43:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
Do you miss it the most when you're doing expense reports? Yes?
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Wow, yes, yeah, you caught me on that one. I
was just working on that earlier today. So I'm like, wow,
But you know what, Hey, that's what makes it a job. Sure,
you know. And but at the end of the day,
I love my job. I really mean, I'm on vacation
(44:07):
right now. I I I love what I do. I
have no regrets. I'm very thankful for the opportunities I
head at Morse Hills. But I I I'm drew to
the end. I you know, this is this is this
is this is not a stepping stone for me. This
is the stone, you know. I love it here and
(44:30):
we're gonna We're gonna go with it.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
When's the first cross country meet?
Speaker 1 (44:34):
We open up at the n j I T Alumni Race.
We got an invice, So I want to think, you know,
think them. I think we're actually good enough to get
an invite, and I listen, I get it. But uh,
you know, we're looking forward to go over over there
and rip. You know that that course is obviously, you know,
crazy fast. It probably should be an illegal course, but
(44:56):
it's it's great for you know, for the athletes to
get over the there. You know, it's only twenty mints
for us, you know, and nj at does a great
job as well. And I'm a big fan of the program.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
Where's the conference to meet at this year?
Speaker 1 (45:10):
We're hosting We're hosting at oak Ridge. Awesome, awesome, and
I am working my butt off on that. But I'm
excited to get them on that course. I've been working
with you know, Michael mcade at Union Catholic. He's been
a great help to me. You know, we obviously go
way back, but they they did a lot of work
to even get cross country over there in the first place,
(45:32):
and you know, to get the Landmark conference on that
course in November first you know they're going to be
flying over there.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Had you done any meat directing at Moore Hills see
it again? Have you did you had you done any
meat directing while you're at More Hills is at it?
Speaker 1 (45:49):
So it's come in. So I do help the the
Morris County Coach Association with their indoor meets here for
high school. You know, I'm not meet directing person, but
I really am kind of like the liaison between the
school and I'm at every meet kind of you know,
helping out, you know with Brendan Don again does a
great job. But I am planning on hosting our own
(46:11):
meats here this year, okay, you know, just because again
you know, I was really kind of full time last year,
and now I kind of got everything squared away. I
feel like I'm ready to do it right.
Speaker 4 (46:23):
Not final floor rich, Let's do it, coach. Are you
a coffee drinker?
Speaker 1 (46:31):
A one like I can't like? Can you infuse it?
Speaker 4 (46:36):
I'm the same boat as you, so with Dad said, Hattie,
bring your coffee and how do you take it? Uh?
Speaker 1 (46:43):
I I drink it black. I want it dark. I
like it straight up and call me crazy, but that's
the way I am.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
All right, all right, no, no, nothing but respect there.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
We like our black coffee. Coach. Do you have any
daily ractice as a ritual?
Speaker 2 (47:00):
As you do on a regular basis to show up
as the strongest version of Sean Robinson.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Yeah, I I remind myself daily that I can do
special things. I look at myself in the mirror and
I okay, and yeah, you got a fake until you
make it right. But being a coach, you have to
be your own biggest fan because if you're not, you're
gonna get crushed. So yeah, I have to take a
little time out myself and remind myself, Hey, I can
(47:28):
be great today, and you can just take a moment.
You have to remind yourself because it's it's like I said,
it's it's the dig. It's hard, but that's what makes
it great, and that's what that's what makes our sports special. Right,
there's no time else you as a coach, you have
to do all of your work before that gun goes off.
You can't say, hey, can we make an adjustment? You know?
(47:52):
So I value cross country and track coaches alike because
I do understand how hard it is.
Speaker 4 (48:00):
Coach, I can get down with that. I talk to myself.
I coached myself up daily, so I can get down
with that.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
Got you gotta do it, You gotta do it.
Speaker 4 (48:10):
What are you listening to right now?
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Music?
Speaker 4 (48:12):
Podcast, audio books? Are you reading anything?
Speaker 1 (48:16):
Well, I'm a I'm a big Food Fighters fan, so
food Fighters is typically, you know, blasting in my office
all the time. So you know, so that that's a
that's a go to for me.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
All right. You have a favorite song?
Speaker 1 (48:35):
Oh? Man, what's that?
Speaker 3 (48:38):
Too many to pick?
Speaker 4 (48:41):
Favorite album?
Speaker 3 (48:41):
Maybe?
Speaker 1 (48:44):
H man, I don't know. I play. I don't think
I can pick an album. I think I think I
think one of these Days is probably my favorite.
Speaker 3 (48:54):
Okay, I.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
Coach last what we got for you? A light harder
one to close it out. You are in North Jersey,
You're close to the city. We know New Jersey is
known for great food. Maybe it's a beverage. We know
some coaches are golfers on the side. Do you have
a guilty pleasure?
Speaker 1 (49:14):
I am a single digit handicapper, a big golfer. Okay,
I have I have golf problems. Oh yeah, yeah, so yeah,
I'm a member at Newton Country Club and it's a great,
great environment up there and feel blessed to be a
part of it. But I like to compete. That's my
(49:38):
That's yeah. I still still like, you know, it's something
I actually feel like I'm getting better.
Speaker 4 (49:41):
At so.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Taking up as as an adult. Were you into it
as a as a kids?
Speaker 1 (49:49):
I was fortunate my dad started to be very young,
so I was getting lessons probably like at seven or eight,
you know, and he was part of a club and
I didn't realize he was doing it to have like
four or five hours with me. That was really why
he was doing why they had that time with me.
But it's definitely a good you know, when I'm playing well,
is a good stress relief? Is it?
Speaker 3 (50:12):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (50:13):
It's a love hate relationship.
Speaker 3 (50:14):
Oh yeah. I caddied for.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
Shoot almost eight years at Madisquon River Golf. That's great
when I was in middle school in high school, so
I know the frustration, not only as someone who chopped around,
but to see, you know, people that I was caddying
for get very frustrated.
Speaker 3 (50:34):
Yeah, you can see it. Is it?
Speaker 2 (50:36):
Is it safe to say you're one of the best
NCAA cross country coaches at golf?
Speaker 1 (50:41):
I you know, I don't want I mean, listen, golf wins, right,
So I don't want to. I don't want to get
cocky here. And you know, I mean, I'm sure there's
someone better. I don't know, but I definitely play it.
I mean we can go. Okay, Okay, yeah, we can play.
But I'm sure I'm sure someone else out that I
can play too.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Okay, Well, we don't know any You're the first cross
country and track coach that we've talked to that plays golf.
But we know quite a few wrestling coaches, not only
in New Jersey but in other parts of the country
that that are avid golfers. So coach got good down
a Rutgers University is an avid golfer. So if he's listening,
maybe he'll he'll take you up on that.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
Tom him come out and we'll play there first.
Speaker 4 (51:24):
Okay, Coach, thank you so much for sharing your perspective.
Can't wait to watch the cross country program and the
indoor and outdoor track programs this year. I expect big
things from you guys that Drew, so thank you so
much for your time.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
Thanks for everything you guys do. Really appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
Yeah, Sean, it's great to connect with you tonight. And
like Jimmy said, we're looking forward to supporting the what
you got going on and Drew and cheering for the
cross country teams. Nice and loud come conference and regionals
and all that good stuff. So best of luck with
the with the fall and heading into indoor and outdoor.
We do appreciate you joining us this evening.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
Absolutely all right, ladies and gentlemen. That is Sean Robinson
from Drew University. Make sure you go check out the
links in the show notes. Go send them a little
bit of love, let them know the area, Bro Sancha.
We will be back tomorrow night. Isaac Wood will be
joining us from Pacific University. They're starting to mend's cross
country program out there, so he's going to be filling
(52:29):
us in about what they got going out on the
West coast tomorrow night.
Speaker 3 (52:33):
Until then, we'll see you
You're listening to Airy Brose Radio be there or B
Square because it's all killer, no filler. This is Sean
Robinson and you're listening to Aery Bros. Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Ladies and gentlemen, howdy and aaloha. Welcome to another episode
Airy Brose Radio Live. We are here, you are there,
and you are now rocking with the best. Tonight we
are heading back on to the track and on to
the oval with director of cross country and track and
field that Drew University, Sean Robinson. But before we get
(00:43):
into it, you know the drill. Make sure you hammer
that like button, drop a comment, every view, review and
share air helps and grow and get back to the
sports we love. Following us on Instagram, YouTube, Spotify and
Apple podcast and as always, let's not forget while we're here.
We're here to shine a light on the programs, people
and stories we wish we had access to growing up.
If you or someone you know who is chasing their
(01:04):
dreams in track and field across country, please share this
episode with them now. Tonight's guest, as I mentioned, Sean Robinson,
director of cross country in track and Field, is joining
us from Drew University. He's entering his fifth year and
third year with the track and field team, leading both
the men's and women's program. He coached Drew's first ever
(01:24):
track and field All American Sage Hendershot in twenty twenty four.
Both indoor and outdoor developed stars like Toby Gaynor, a
three time All Landmark, two time All Region, and school
history record maker, Kate Rice, who broke Drew's all time
five K and six K records in her season debut.
And you may know Coach Robinson from his time at
(01:45):
Morris Hills, where he built a dynasty, winning ten state titles,
twenty one sectional championships, multiple national level relay teams, and
an induction into the NJSCA Hall of Fame in twenty fifteen.
With out further ado, it is an honor and a pleasure,
and we do greatly appreciate your time this evening, Coach Robinson, welcome.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
To the show.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Thank you, coach.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Before we get too far into it, anywhere you want
us to send recruits, parents, anyone that has questions they
want to get in touch with you, Wherever you want
people to find you or find the program on social media,
or wherever the floor is yours.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah, I mean I think the key thing is always,
you know, for any recruit you want to always start
with the recruiting questionnaire. You know, in our case of
you know Drew University, you know you know dot com
or you know Drew dot eedu. You know, we we
use uh, you know, you got to be involved with
in stuff. So that's kind of where where everything's going now.
(02:46):
So we you know, we have new numerous outlets there
as well. So that's basically that's basically it for us.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
We'll put all that stuff in the show notes for
you as well. And Coach, probably the most supporting question
we're going to ask you all evening. As a Jersey guy,
we like to ask all of our Jersey guests this
question is a pork roller.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Taylor Ham.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
H I gotta go Taylor Ham. I'm I'm I'm in
the North, so I like you like Taylor Ham.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
All right, all right.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
We've had a couple of North Jersey coaches, mostly from
the wrestling side, but we do know that they love
their Taylor Ham up there above the above the bridge
and anywhere down south or at the shore where we're from.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
It's it's it's pork role.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
But we as our friend and guest Former guest Dave
Santa Maria said, I don't care what you called as
long as I.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Get my sandwich, no doubt.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
So coach, you know, we we followed you for a while.
I was coaching when you were at Morris Hills and
you get into an unbelievable job there. But I'm curious
and one thing we like to find out. We all
have our origin to our origins, story to the sport.
What what got you into running where you where you're
an a league coming up? Did you run in high school?
(04:01):
In college? And when did coaching become a thing for you?
Speaker 1 (04:06):
You know, I was fortunate. You know, my dad was
the basketball coach at my high school. I was a
basketball player my entire life. He said, hey, why don't
you go out for for cross country to get ready
for the fourth quarter? Long story short. My junior year,
the second race, I won this big race in Scranton
and decided I need to take a little more seriously
(04:27):
and just really fell in love with the sport, had
an opportunity to run at Kustin University, and just had
a lot of great people around me. You know that
just just really made the sport great. You know, we
all have those stories, right, we talked about running fast,
but really for me, it's a relationships that you make
(04:50):
along the way. And I think that's what connects all
of us, is that we all understand how difficult our
sport is. And you know, I come from a family
of educator and I had the opportunity to, you know,
to teach and coach. You know, I was a biology
teacher for twenty six years and it really kind of
for me, it kind of goes hand in hand, right,
I mean coaching. To be a really good coach, you
(05:11):
got to be a great teacher. And I think the
education I got it, you know, at Kutztown along my
own high school. Then having family members that were all educators,
I got to kind of it was modeled for me.
And this, this truly is a profession of service. You know,
when when you want to really get good at good
(05:32):
at this, you have to make that transition from athlete
where you're kind of selfish and you have to be
really good. You have to be selfish, and then when
you when you coach, you have to make the big shift.
It's not about you anymore. It's really about you, know,
what can you do to to bring people together and
help them individually through their journey because it's it's really
about them. And I know.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Yeah, So coach, when were we at Kutztown?
Speaker 1 (05:58):
So I was in I was at Goodstown starting to three,
so I was there from ninety three to ninety eight.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
So you happened to run at the regional meet in
cross country in the fall of nineteen ninety three when
they had the fire going there.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
I was there.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Okay, I was there too. We were there.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
I ran.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I remember my freshman year, I ran to Springfield College
in Massachusetts.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
That was. That was a great race. Yeah, if I
remember correctly ran the line. It was snowing too that
it was just starting to come down. But yeah, great,
great day that was.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
That was a wild day.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
So, you know, you did amazing things with Morris Hills.
Was was college coaching something that was ever on your radar?
Or did that opportunity pop up and you figured let
me put my name in the hat?
Speaker 4 (06:52):
You know?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
It was a weird thing, right, I really wasn't thinking
about it. I loved my time at Morris Bills. It's
you know, it's always Go Hills for the rest of
my life. It's just it's such a it's such a
brotherhood there in history. You know. I was fortunate to
be under the tutelage of Jack O'Leary, who you know,
(07:14):
had a great coaching career, and you know, to have
his connections to Jumbo Elliott and to have that influence
on me at A as a young coach, you know,
which is really inspiring to me. And I just really
enjoyed the history of the school so much and was
you know, was willing to work for it. But you know,
(07:36):
you get to a point, right I was just ready
to climb a new mountain. I think that's really what
it came down to. I you know, we had other
assistant coaches in the program that I had coached. I
felt they were ready to take the reins. And you know,
there was an opportunity that Drew. I had so many
teams winning this building here and I'm just like, you
(07:58):
know why, I talked to my wife my family, said
I really want to take a shot at this. I
want to bring high level cross country and eventually track
and field to Drew. And you know, kind of with
their blessing that they allowed me to take my shot.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
Coach, What was the biggest transition or maybe growing pain
for you leaving More Sills going to Drew.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
But you know, and more skills were used to winning,
right like right, I mean, you know, winning is a
lot of fun. But you know, I think you know
some people will understand, like all the work, all the pieces,
you know, you know, we're winning at More Sills. It
it wasn't just me. We we had so many great
people that were involved with it. And you know, I
(08:45):
knew I was going to have to put great people
around me to build this thing at Drew and just
kind of like just change the culture and that whole
attitude of what it takes to win. And you know,
we're still making that line. You know, we we have
more work to do, but it's it's it's been so
much fun to watch this thing grow and you know,
(09:08):
just the work ethic and the excitement of the student
athletes here. So I knew what I signed up for.
I'm blessed to have an a d and Chris the
ray Seine who was also a former track and field
coach at Morris Catholic and kind of understands what goes
into track and field coaching and cross country coaching. So
(09:29):
that was another big thing for me taking the job
is is I think you have to have somebody an
administration that actually gets it, you know. So that was
the reason why I wanted to sign up for this,
and I wanted I wanted to do something local, you know,
I want to do it right here, and I've always
liked doing hard things and I knew this thing was
(09:52):
going to be hard, and it just kind of motivated
me more to do it.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
So.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
I know you said winning came easy for you guys
at Morris Hill, but we also know being a college
coach is a full time job and there's some other
things that you have to do as a college coach
you might not have to do as a high school
coach or just might be on a bigger spectrum than
what you do. What was the biggest kind of shock
(10:16):
for you as far as a role of the position
that you might have not been ready for or you
didn't realize how much time it took.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yeah, recruiting, recruiting, recruiting. It does not stop. And it
doesn't matter how good of a coach I am or
I think that I am there. You have to you
have to land the student athlete right, and at Morris
Hills it kind of recruited itself, right is you know,
you know, we were taking kids from Rockaway and Warton
(10:47):
and you know, and making them into things right and
doing the work. But in college, you you have to
you have to knock on doors, phone calls, you know, texting,
it's just NonStop, and it's it's every day, you know.
So I think that was the hard is the coaching
I can do, you know, it's just learning the tricks
(11:09):
and the secrets of how to really recruit well. And
that's a whole other separate thing. And you know, I
continue on that journey and uh, hey, I'm gonna hold
myself accountable, accountable. I got more to go.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
You know.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
I feel like I'm still like an infant recruiter, you know, right,
but we have made some great gains and I'm definitely
learning that process of when to do things and when
not to do things, and and also be respectful to
the student athletes.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Well, I would imagine too, as a New Jersey high
school coach at More Sales, for as long as you were,
you've made great friendships with a lot of different coaches
from a lot of different parts of the state. Whether
you know your fierce rivalries and competitors at some point,
you know, you're friendly about it, and would imagine that
kind of helps recruiting within the state.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
It definitely helps. And you know, I didn't burn a
lot of bridges you know along the way, you know,
which I think is good. Yeah, some of them are
still figuring out that I'm here, right, They're they're still
used to seeing me in the red and white, and
I'll be able to meet with the Drew stuff like
what are you doing? Like I'm not Drew now, you
know what I mean. So so that part has been fun.
(12:25):
But yeah, it's just it's getting the information out. And
there's so many great high school coaches that you know,
I respect, you know it, They're doing the hard work.
You know. It's just you know, but it's worth it,
you know. And I think that those are the programs
and the coaches I gravitate towards, just because I know
(12:47):
the type of student athlete that we're going to get.
So that that has been very helpful.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
You're also in a I think a unique situation is
are there any other Division two track of old programs
cross country programs in New Jersey?
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Well, well, where we're well, Drew is a D three.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
I'm sorry Division three.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yeah, we're definitely D three. Okay, Yeah, we're part of
the Landmark Conference. You know what what is unique is
we're the only Jersey school in the Landmark So I yeah,
which is you know that's kind of interesting, right, you
know where we can recruit, We can pull kids from
Long Island some of those areas that they're more willing,
(13:28):
you know, to take the track to Drew versus some
of the other schools. So yeah, so we're we're kind
of learning, you know, where where our Loulcal kids really
come from.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Okay, because so being a Division three school, we all
know that recruits parents.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
They want money.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Yeah, they think their kid is going to get a
full ride. They talk to the Joneses down the street,
and Johnny got got money to go to Division one school.
But doing this podcast, one thing we realize is just
because you get money doesn't mean you're not paying money.
So get into kind of the fine details of what
you guys can offer kids, what kids can get academically,
(14:07):
things like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Sure, I mean most D threes are gonna be in
the same boat as us, right, I Mean, Drew has rigor.
It's known for its academics, you know, long standing. So
you know, I always tell recruits, you know, when when
I'm recruiting, the first thing I'm doing this, I'm looking
at your grades. You know. I I may like you athletically,
but I got to know can you actually make it
in our environment? You know? Are you gonna be nc
(14:32):
DOUAA eligible? You know? Are you actually a good student?
And I think so many times, you know, we we
kick around the term student athlete. Okay, but like I'll tell, like,
you know, we have real ones that drew you know
what I mean, like, like you you actually got to
live that, you know, so I can't stress enough. You know,
(14:56):
if you have good grades, then yeah, you're you're going
to get a nice merit financial package. And that's really
for any D three school, right is that's the priority
that that's really in the language from the ncuble A,
you know, in regards to D three it's a little
bit of a shift. And that's probably why I belong
(15:17):
here too. I'm an educator. You know, I actually care
about my kids doing something else beyond running fast, you know,
like I want them to have a chance at a
professional job and to do something that they really enjoy.
And are passionate about so I can't stress enough. You know,
there's got to be more emphasis on doing the little
(15:39):
things to be a good student, just like they would
maybe put the effort into being an athlete. It's got
to transfer over to the classroom. And the better your grades,
the more money I'm gonna be able to get you.
And I have no problem going to bat with admissions
in regards to that. But yeah, you've got to have
the grades. You've got to show me that you're going
(16:01):
to class, that you're consistent, you're you're taking some of
the harder classes, you know that kind of fit into
maybe like the liberal arts type setting. But I think
many times kids are sold on this, well, you know,
I'm gonna I'm gonna get this big athletic scholarship, and
they don't realize this stuff would full ride. It doesn't
(16:24):
really exist that much. That's the hard reality. It doesn't
mean we can't get that price point down, you know.
I always tell kids to get offers, you know, because
if you get an offer and then we can do
a financial appeal. There's a lot of ways we can
do that. But if you don't have the grades, it's
not it's just not gonna work, coach.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
This is one of the main reasons why I love
talking to Division three coaches, because you guys make me
realize that I should have spent as much time in
the books. I probably would have got more money in
the books than just worrying about what I did on
the wrestle. On that, so I really appreciate you bringing
that up. And I always talk talk to my cousins
kids and things like that, Hey, spend more time or
(17:08):
not more time, but just as much time, yes, studying
because that will give you more opportunities, and that's what
you want. And thank you for saying, hey, you're probably
not going to get a full ride that that is
a myth. I think that's another point we need to
drive home more. So thank you for bringing that up.
You also said that Drew is heavy academics, so kind
of getting into what the school is known for, what
(17:30):
kids are going there for.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
You know, we have a really strong business department, you know,
business marketing. I feel like our education department is certainly
on the rise. They're set up kids. Well, you know,
I history is killer here. You know, if you want
to talk about like theater and drama and arts, you
(17:52):
know that very successful. What I like about Liberal Arts
and what we do here is I feel our advisors
do a great job customizing, you know, the education for
the kids to set them up. You know, many times
they have to go to grad school, and I think
they I think Drew does a great job of saying, hey,
if this is the end game, how do we get there,
(18:14):
and let's make sure that we're applying to the schools
that we need to be getting into. You know. So
I think a lot of kids don't understand the whole
undergrad graduate thing, you know, when they're when they're kind
of planning for their careers. And I feel our counselors
and our advisors do a really good job, you know,
with our student and athletes in that in that regard.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Coach, what's the campus like, you guys? I know, we're
sure guys.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
So North Jersey is like a foreign land to us
up there. You know, not that we're as bad as
some people where they are all their only point of
references like what they see from the Sopranos, or like
Jersey Lisius, or like what people do with the Jersey
Shore with us from different places, but you know, what's
the campus? Like training grounds for you know, especially from
(18:59):
at runers perspective, across country runners. You have parks and
different things like that for the guys and goals to
go run at.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yeah, I mean we're a hitding gym. I say it
all the time. You know, we're a mussy. I love
it when kids come on campus because they're kind of
blown away. Uh, it's just a beautiful campus. We call
it the Forest. We we have a lot of these
old trees that are on campus. I think you know
what they do with the grounds and you know the
architecture of the buildings, and then you know we're right there.
(19:30):
We're right by Lawonica. You know Brook Reservation Trail. You
can run right there from campus. We have Gilda Farms,
we have the Traction Line. I mean there's just great
running here, you know, in a beautiful setting. And then
you can walk downtown to Madison. Madison was ranked the
(19:51):
number one safest college town in New Jersey and it's
actually number three in the country. So we're pretty proud
of that. Right you know, my son is here, my
daughter just graduated. You know, that's my best recruiting tool.
There's no way I send my own blood to a
school if if I think it was safe and awesome
(20:11):
and you know, a really really good education, and you
know Drew has all of that. No, we're small. If
you're looking for a big school, don't go to Drew, right,
I mean, if you're looking for a small school where
you know people are gonna actually know you and invest
time into you. You know, we're about two thy twenty
(20:32):
three hundred, you know, strong, we have commuters on. But
like I say, even though we're small, we do big things.
And the big things we do is we really help
people land their jobs. And I think that's probably the
biggest selling point. You know. I'm very proud of our
professors and what and what they do. They hold the
(20:54):
kids accountable, and I feel our advisors really go out
of their way to set them up for success.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Talking about setting up for success and getting jobs, lending
jobs after college, you know, one of the things we
like to hear about too. And some of the coaches,
some of the schools have unique things in terms of internships,
and I think it was we had a coach, Matt
entry On from the University of Chicago. He said one
of his wrestlers he had a summer internship where he
made sixty thousand dollars. So it was like, wow, I
(21:26):
thought that internship. Yeah, same here here. So does does
Drew have those sorts of opportunities? I know you guys
are relatively close to New York as well. I'm sure
yeahs itself.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Well, yeah, what's great is, you know, they have different opportunities.
You know, they can actually hook you know, hook a
rod in the train, you know, takes the rent and
Penn station. I know, you know, especially like on the
business end of it. They can go to Wall Street.
They have internships where they go in for the day.
I have kids that are doing that and they're actually
(21:58):
back in practice time, which it makes coach happy, you know.
So you know again, I think having you know, New
York City that close to us has been you know,
is a big deal for the university, and they take
advantage of it.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
Yeah, because you said one of the biggest differences between
Morris Hills and Drew was winning that said twenty twenty four,
you guys had your first track and Field All American.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
How big was that for the program?
Speaker 1 (22:27):
No, it it's huge. I mean because it was so hard, right,
and I think it's it's the struggle you know, like
you take a kid like Sage Hender's shot. There was
not a lot of people recruiting her. I actually saw
her the first time, like one of the Drew series meets,
and I saw her compete and I went after coach
(22:49):
and I'm like, where is she going? And they're like,
we don't know if she's going anywhere. I said, no,
that's changing, and just kind of talking to parents and
really worked it out. And she didn't even long jump
in high school, which is crazy. So we have all
these tests that we do and I remember when we
tested her, you know, on her broad jumps, it was
it was definitely like off the charts. I'm like, you're
(23:11):
a long jumper, you know, we need to kind of
shift you. And she's raw. I mean, if we can
keep her healthy, she's gonna have a chance to win
a national title because the kids that she's jumping against
have been jumping for a very long time and she's
still learning the event. So we're pretty excited about that,
and it just it kind of sets the stage for
(23:33):
other things, right, and now the other athletes say, hey, wait,
I want a piece of that action. I want to
do the work, I want to be that good right,
and that's kind of it builds on itself. It's it
certainly have helped our recruiting. We've got a lot more
jumpers looking at Drew University because of what stage is done.
And you know, that's how it goes. We have to
earn it, you know, like at the end of the day,
(23:56):
no one cares what I did it more ses they
what can I do it here? You know? And I
understand that process, and I'm willing to do the dig,
you know, And I'm so blessed to have great coaches
around me that share that passion. And uh, you know,
we definitely have a vision here and we've got more
to do, more work to do, and we're going to
do it.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
You say, you late, you're grateful that you have great
coaches around you. And we know as a college coach,
you're a CEO of the business. So what does your
CEO position look like? And how do you delegate to
those assistant coaches?
Speaker 1 (24:32):
You know what I like the hire coaches that I
know that I can stay out of their way. You know,
my job is to put them in position of impact.
The coaches I've had, I've known them for a very
long time, I trust them. Uh, they were either like
a former athlete of mine or someone that I coached
(24:52):
against for a very long time. So I've been blessed.
I have resources, right, I know a lot of people
in our in our sport, and I know how they
go about their business. And that's my main job is
to is to put them in a position of impact.
I'm not a micromanager. I'm more like, hey, I'm gonna
give you the tools. I'm going to give you the resources,
(25:14):
now go. And I think my coaches appreciate that, you know,
And uh, I have full faith and it's working, you know.
I I I like to sit back and watch them
in action, you know what I mean. And you know,
I'm constantly asking, you know, what do you need from
me to make your job better? And I think they,
(25:36):
you know, they're gonna work harder for me because of that.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
As a director, are you still doing some x's and
o's for for the distance guys and that sort of stuff?
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yeah, No, I mean I'm listen. I'm a hand I'm
a hands on guy, you know. Uh. And when you're
a high school coach, you have to coach numerous events.
So yeah, I mean I'm pushing out training. We used
to good a classroom so our athletes it's going and
right to their phone. I'm really big into gat analysis,
(26:05):
so I spend a lot of time in research. I'm
giving kids scores, you know, so we're into injury prevention.
So I'm still coaching my butt off. I mean, I
don't want to, you know, you have to be right,
you know, at this level, I have to be involved.
I don't I don't get to just sit in my
office and just recruit. I have to be in there
(26:27):
doing the dig with them. And that's my main role, right.
My main role is to is to really guide our
our cross country and distance program, you know, in our
middle distance. But I can coach sprinters, I can coach hurdlers.
I can get in there, you know. And many times,
you know, my my my coaches were colleagues, right, They'll
they'll last for my opinion, and when they ask, I
(26:50):
give it to them, you know. I mean they may
want me to look at something or or vice versa.
And I think that's where we're at is. You know,
I have clinicians on my coaching staff, like they they
could run their own clinic in their event. And that's
kind of the bar I've set. You know, if you're
gonna come work with me, I expect you to be
(27:12):
at that level. And I think they understand that, and
the and the and honestly, the kids that were coaching,
I feel they deserve it, right. I mean, you guys
get it. You get one shot, right. I don't get I.
I don't have time to get this wrong. I have
to be great for my student athletes. I have to
give them every opportunity because once it's.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Over, it's over, and it goes quick. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Right. And I I could ask you guys the question,
if you had the opportunity to go back and relive it,
I think you probably would do it in a heartbeat,
because I know I would. It was that important. It
was such an important time in my life and really
set me up for my life. And in a cheesy way,
I remind myself of that daily.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
And I think that's an important perspective to have as
a coach. You know, I'm coaching high school cross country
right now and down here in South Carolina, and Jimmy
and I were just talking about cross country practice and stuff,
and I think that's a it's good to hear reminders
like that. So I appreciate you sharing that perspective, and
it's good to have those little reminders every once in
(28:22):
a while.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
It's like, yeah, because coaching is coaching is hard.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Yes it is.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
It just is right. It's the best. It is the
best because it right, because the kids don't care if
you've had a bad day. You know, they you know,
and it takes an extreme amount of patience, but man,
is it worth it. It is so worth it.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Well, cross country season is upon us. Are the kids
back on campus? How how's things looking for the fall?
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I'm super jazzed for this year. It's just, you know,
all these kids are my recruit Uh, none of them
are left over. And it's no offense to you know,
to the coaching staff that was here before. You know,
they were a little bit handcuffed, you know. Brain track
and field here was a big deal for our cross
country program and I and I knew it would be.
(29:16):
We have a lot of great young recruits that have
come in and I have enough you know, senior leadership.
Now we we have that dynamic. Both our men and
women actually trained the way I feel they needed to
over the summer. That was another big shift. We're not
gonna have to spend all season trying to get people
in shape. I felt like they came in pre season, uh,
(29:37):
you know, ready to go. So yeah, I'm just very
excited about the season and you know, keeping people healthy
and you know they're bought in. We have a team.
I just I like the culture. We had a very
good time trial last week, and I like our compression.
You know, we you know, we kind of started out
having like some standouts and now I feel like we're
(29:58):
actually it almost it almost feels like a Hills team.
We're not there yet, but it's it's I'm starting, Oh
my gosh, wait, I'm starting to get those feels again.
And and just to kind of see where we were
to what we are now. It's just been you know,
I feel blessed to be here and to have the
opportunity to do this. All Jersey kids, well, no, we
(30:25):
have a few kids coming out of PA in New York,
mostly Jersey. Yeah, but they're starting to sprinkle in and
from the triy you know, state area, and that's been fun.
It's been fun to kind of see that gel yeah,
you know, and we're just getting a lot more traffic.
You know on our recruiting questionnaires and you know people
(30:45):
are actually looking at us to come here for track
and field cross country, which I think is great.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
You get a little bit of a friendly trash talking
amongst the different states. Who's got you know, better better
athletes or better food, better sports teams?
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Oh no, no, it's that's what it is, right, That's
what it is. But hey, if we want, if we
want to trash talk, you can just look at the
Olympics and uh, you know who's coming out in New Jersey.
And I think it's not an argument anymore.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
True.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
Coach, you said that this is your first season where
all the recruits or are yours? Are you where you
thought you would be? Are you ahead of schedule? Behind
schedule when you took the job?
Speaker 1 (31:32):
We're close, right, I mean, I I'm really hard on myself, right,
I'm gonna hold myself accountable because that's how I'm wired.
I'm going to blame myself before I blame a student athlete, right,
I mean, that's how that's how it goes. Sometimes I
think a part of me always wanted it yesterday, right,
(31:53):
But the reality is I know what I signed up for,
and I can handle delayed gratification. That that's kind of
our generation, right I. I I grew up without a
cell phone, right, I don't need an instant you know,
and you know and I understand we have to earn it, right,
(32:17):
we have to earn it. And the only way to
do that is to stay with it even on the
really hard days. And I believe in having a good loss,
you know, I mean I I believe in those things.
Right is sometimes you need to just get your butt
kicked to to just to kind of bring some clarity.
(32:39):
And but the thing with me and I and I
instilled it in my student athletes, I am not scared
to fail. I've had. I mean, people, look at the
success I've had so much failure along that journey, and
I've learned more from that failure than I have from
the successes. And I will re up. That's probably be
(33:00):
one of my strongest qualities. I'm not scared to fail,
and I will take it in stride. I will be
positive with my kids. And my takeaway with them is
we're either gonna win or we're gonna learn. I want
them to be in an environment where they are allowed
to fail, and they need to embrace that failure. I
think so many times that it kind of leads to
(33:21):
anxiety and depression. And you know, there's there's this whole
pushing NCAA about about mental health, and I think that's
one way I can begin to chip away at that,
just to kind of to restructure or refrain how they
approach it.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
Because you said you're not afraid to fail, rich and
I we're not afraid to fail either, we know, but
as older gentlemen, I believe we've come to that right.
We as young kids, we wanted to win everything. We
wanted to win every practice, everything. Do you find the
kids have a little bit harder of a buying for that,
(33:57):
or because you're so accepting of the failure that they
kind of buy into it a little faster.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Here's what I've discovered, and it's generational. Right. I grew
up in a time I would go to the race.
I didn't know what my competitor did the week before.
I didn't know what training they did. You know, I
went kind of like clean slate. I was given an
assignment and I was to do my assignment, and I'm
sure I beat people that I had no business beating
(34:25):
because I was just told that I was supposed to
beat this individual of that, and I didn't know all
their you know, their statistics. A lot of the kids today,
they're so into tune of what's going on on social media,
you know, mile split direct athletics. All the information is there,
and I really think it is paralysis by analysis, right,
is they're just they're inundated with information and they're constantly
(34:48):
comparing themselves to someone else's journey. And I think that's
a tough place to live to be really good, because
you're not really kind of focused on the simple thing
things like competing. Right. So my main job is to
simplify it down to kind of get them back to
(35:09):
what I think is recognizable that's going to allow them
to perform at a high level. And it's harder now
because they do they do live on their cell phone
a lot of them, and it's someone It's not even
their fault, right, These algorithms are all they're geared for addiction, right,
and a lot of times their mind isn't mature enough
(35:29):
to really kind of process what's going on. So that's
where I feel I have to step in almost have
like a digital detox and help them to kind of
process what's going on and to really stick to process.
So that's what I'm discovering is they have very different
challenges than what you or I might have had when
(35:51):
we were competing, because it's just a different time. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
I think it's one of those things where when the
internet first came about and there was all the access
to the information, and it was different talk about training
and different things, and maybe people weren't necessarily focused on
you know, the results or what this person was doing
or that person was doing, and just more information was
getting out there. That's what we saw, like you know,
early two thousands when like distance running in the US
(36:19):
kind of jumped that level and you know, we started
to take off. But now it seems like, yeah, it's
more of this comparison, Oh this person did that or
that person did that, whereas maybe in that beginning push
it was like, oh, I can do this, and I'm
going to do that or I'm going to beat that,
and not necessarily oh the comparison. It's interesting how that's
kind of worked unfortunately. Yeah, coach, what advice do you
(36:47):
have for high school kids? You know, you were a
high school coach for many years. Kids that are chasing
those dreams that want to run in college, be an
athlete in college. Do you have any advice for those kids.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
I think the key thing is, you know, you can
only really kind of serve like one person, right. I
think there's so much information. There's a lot of good
coaches out there, and I think you can get cold
in different directions, and I think the key thing is
is to really trust in your coach. You may not
(37:19):
always agree with their philosophy or how they're going about it,
but many times they're in that position for a reason,
and there's got to be some faith and some trust,
and it's not going to be immediate, right. There might
be things that they can do that they're going to
get quicker results, but I think most coaches are in
(37:41):
it for the long haul, and I just find athletes
kind of like, you know, that whole concept. But a
little knowledge is a dangerous thing and there's so much
information out there, So I would just I would just
tell athletes, you know, just kind of trust a little
bit more. Understand that one race or one bad race
(38:06):
isn't going to determine your entire season. Try to stay
off the socials as much as possible, especially when people
start talking about this, that or the other. You know,
it just kind of like quiet the mind and enjoy
the process of getting good. You know, I don't know
about you, but I love that whole process of the
(38:27):
training and and you know, working on my own personal records, right,
I think so many times, well, this person's running this
or this person's doing that. And you know, at the
end of the day, we're all different, right, and we're
all wired different, and it's the coach's job is to
kind of figure out, hey, how does that athlete tick?
You know, we can have all these great training methodologies,
(38:49):
but there's the science the coaching, and there's the method
you know, like the art of coaching. And I would
like to think that I work really hard to kind
of lend the two for the athlete, But the athlete
need they need to trust a little bit more. That
would be my biggest suggestion. Even if they don't agree
with it. You got to give the coach the opportunity.
(39:11):
You got to you got to go through the process.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
With all that being said, how often do you get
asked to do double threshold training? Where is that a thing?
Speaker 3 (39:24):
At Drew?
Speaker 4 (39:27):
You know?
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Wow? I The good thing for me, right is I
can hang with him because I typically, I mean, I'm
in I'm constantly reading all of this and all the
different training methodologies, and I can fire back with, you know,
what is doing to their biochemistry and what we're trying
to achieve for the given day. I keep it pretty
simple in my athletes. I simply tell them this and
(39:49):
I've earned this. They can always ask me a question.
They just can't question, you know, and they they they
they don't always know what that means at first, but
then I remind them that I've been doing this longer
than they've been on the planet. Yeah, and that I'm
gonna make less mistakes than they are at the training
part of it. And it doesn't make me better than them.
(40:12):
It's just that I've lived and I make very few
mistakes now just because I've made them, you know. And
I think that's the key thing is I've been in
enough you know, situations with you know, you know, from
working with freshmen from the ground up to the high
school level to you know, to get them to be
an All American at the high school level, and that
whole journey, you know, it does provide me with the
(40:38):
expertise to to get it right, you know, and like
you guys, I hold myself accountable to that. You know,
I feel I can get better. I'm still getting better
because I know, I know, I don't know everything. You know,
I know a lot, I know more than most, but
(40:59):
I can still get better and so and I've preached
that with my athletes too. Let's just get better. But
can we just focus on that?
Speaker 4 (41:11):
Couch. I appreciate your philosophy and I appreciate your mindset.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
So thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
It's very refreshing to have this conversation with you and
dig into your perspective. I think anyone looking for college
running in New Jersey, Drew's a good option for him.
So thank you for your time tonight. Is there anything
about Drew University and the track and field program that
we haven't talked about that you'd like our audience to know.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
I would just say that Drew is a people you know,
you can come look at our buildings, you can look
at our indoor track facility. You know, we got a thing,
great things to offer. What brought me to the school,
it was the people. And I don't know how else
to explain it. They're just there's kindness here. But there's
(42:01):
also purpose, and I feel that every day with my colleagues,
you know, and I just I just know I'm at
a special place and if I can give a student
athlete opportunity to experience that, then I want to do that.
Speaker 4 (42:15):
Rich The more and more we talk to coaches like Sean,
how many times do we hear it's the people. It's
not the buildings, it's the people.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
People in relationships, time after time. Coach, I got one
last one for you. I'm curious, do you miss teaching biology?
Speaker 1 (42:32):
You know what I do a side hustle. I do
have a tutoring business. I do keep myself on the game.
I love teaching biology. I mean that's you know, my
dad was a science teacher. It's in my blood. You know.
I got to work with some amazing there's amazing science
(42:53):
teachers at Morris Hills. I got to teaching the Academy
for Maths, Science and Engineering. So yeah, I I mean
lying to you but said that I don't really miss
it that much. I missed the kids. I missed teaching
ap bio because you know what it is. It it
was like teaching like academic athletes, you know what I mean,
like being a coach actually helped me in the classroom too, right,
(43:15):
because I was really kind of coaching these individuals how
to really learn biology, but then also to perform on
a test. So I do miss that part of it.
But to do what I'm doing now, I have a
lot of responsibility and I need to be great for
my student athletes. So it was the move.
Speaker 4 (43:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
Do you miss it the most when you're doing expense reports? Yes?
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Wow, yes, yeah, you caught me on that one. I
was just working on that earlier today. So I'm like, wow,
But you know what, Hey, that's what makes it a job. Sure,
you know. And but at the end of the day,
I love my job. I really mean, I'm on vacation
(44:07):
right now. I I I love what I do. I
have no regrets. I'm very thankful for the opportunities I
head at Morse Hills. But I I I'm drew to
the end. I you know, this is this is this
is this is not a stepping stone for me. This
is the stone, you know. I love it here and
(44:30):
we're gonna We're gonna go with it.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
When's the first cross country meet?
Speaker 1 (44:34):
We open up at the n j I T Alumni Race.
We got an invice, So I want to think, you know,
think them. I think we're actually good enough to get
an invite, and I listen, I get it. But uh,
you know, we're looking forward to go over over there
and rip. You know that that course is obviously, you know,
crazy fast. It probably should be an illegal course, but
(44:56):
it's it's great for you know, for the athletes to
get over the there. You know, it's only twenty mints
for us, you know, and nj at does a great
job as well. And I'm a big fan of the program.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
Where's the conference to meet at this year?
Speaker 1 (45:10):
We're hosting We're hosting at oak Ridge. Awesome, awesome, and
I am working my butt off on that. But I'm
excited to get them on that course. I've been working
with you know, Michael mcade at Union Catholic. He's been
a great help to me. You know, we obviously go
way back, but they they did a lot of work
to even get cross country over there in the first place,
(45:32):
and you know, to get the Landmark conference on that
course in November first you know they're going to be
flying over there.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Had you done any meat directing at Moore Hills see
it again? Have you did you had you done any
meat directing while you're at More Hills is at it?
Speaker 1 (45:49):
So it's come in. So I do help the the
Morris County Coach Association with their indoor meets here for
high school. You know, I'm not meet directing person, but
I really am kind of like the liaison between the
school and I'm at every meet kind of you know,
helping out, you know with Brendan Don again does a
great job. But I am planning on hosting our own
(46:11):
meats here this year, okay, you know, just because again
you know, I was really kind of full time last year,
and now I kind of got everything squared away. I
feel like I'm ready to do it right.
Speaker 4 (46:23):
Not final floor rich, Let's do it, coach. Are you
a coffee drinker?
Speaker 1 (46:31):
A one like I can't like? Can you infuse it?
Speaker 4 (46:36):
I'm the same boat as you, so with Dad said, Hattie,
bring your coffee and how do you take it? Uh?
Speaker 1 (46:43):
I I drink it black. I want it dark. I
like it straight up and call me crazy, but that's
the way I am.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
All right, all right, no, no, nothing but respect there.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
We like our black coffee. Coach. Do you have any
daily ractice as a ritual?
Speaker 2 (47:00):
As you do on a regular basis to show up
as the strongest version of Sean Robinson.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Yeah, I I remind myself daily that I can do
special things. I look at myself in the mirror and
I okay, and yeah, you got a fake until you
make it right. But being a coach, you have to
be your own biggest fan because if you're not, you're
gonna get crushed. So yeah, I have to take a
little time out myself and remind myself, Hey, I can
(47:28):
be great today, and you can just take a moment.
You have to remind yourself because it's it's like I said,
it's it's the dig. It's hard, but that's what makes
it great, and that's what that's what makes our sports special. Right,
there's no time else you as a coach, you have
to do all of your work before that gun goes off.
You can't say, hey, can we make an adjustment? You know?
(47:52):
So I value cross country and track coaches alike because
I do understand how hard it is.
Speaker 4 (48:00):
Coach, I can get down with that. I talk to myself.
I coached myself up daily, so I can get down
with that.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
Got you gotta do it, You gotta do it.
Speaker 4 (48:10):
What are you listening to right now?
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Music?
Speaker 4 (48:12):
Podcast, audio books? Are you reading anything?
Speaker 1 (48:16):
Well, I'm a I'm a big Food Fighters fan, so
food Fighters is typically, you know, blasting in my office
all the time. So you know, so that that's a
that's a go to for me.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
All right. You have a favorite song?
Speaker 1 (48:35):
Oh? Man, what's that?
Speaker 3 (48:38):
Too many to pick?
Speaker 4 (48:41):
Favorite album?
Speaker 3 (48:41):
Maybe?
Speaker 1 (48:44):
H man, I don't know. I play. I don't think
I can pick an album. I think I think I
think one of these Days is probably my favorite.
Speaker 3 (48:54):
Okay, I.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
Coach last what we got for you? A light harder
one to close it out. You are in North Jersey,
You're close to the city. We know New Jersey is
known for great food. Maybe it's a beverage. We know
some coaches are golfers on the side. Do you have
a guilty pleasure?
Speaker 1 (49:14):
I am a single digit handicapper, a big golfer. Okay,
I have I have golf problems. Oh yeah, yeah, so yeah,
I'm a member at Newton Country Club and it's a great,
great environment up there and feel blessed to be a
part of it. But I like to compete. That's my
(49:38):
That's yeah. I still still like, you know, it's something
I actually feel like I'm getting better.
Speaker 4 (49:41):
At so.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Taking up as as an adult. Were you into it
as a as a kids?
Speaker 1 (49:49):
I was fortunate my dad started to be very young,
so I was getting lessons probably like at seven or eight,
you know, and he was part of a club and
I didn't realize he was doing it to have like
four or five hours with me. That was really why
he was doing why they had that time with me.
But it's definitely a good you know, when I'm playing well,
is a good stress relief? Is it?
Speaker 3 (50:12):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (50:13):
It's a love hate relationship.
Speaker 3 (50:14):
Oh yeah. I caddied for.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
Shoot almost eight years at Madisquon River Golf. That's great
when I was in middle school in high school, so
I know the frustration, not only as someone who chopped around,
but to see, you know, people that I was caddying
for get very frustrated.
Speaker 3 (50:34):
Yeah, you can see it. Is it?
Speaker 2 (50:36):
Is it safe to say you're one of the best
NCAA cross country coaches at golf?
Speaker 1 (50:41):
I you know, I don't want I mean, listen, golf wins, right,
So I don't want to. I don't want to get
cocky here. And you know, I mean, I'm sure there's
someone better. I don't know, but I definitely play it.
I mean we can go. Okay, Okay, yeah, we can play.
But I'm sure I'm sure someone else out that I
can play too.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Okay, Well, we don't know any You're the first cross
country and track coach that we've talked to that plays golf.
But we know quite a few wrestling coaches, not only
in New Jersey but in other parts of the country
that that are avid golfers. So coach got good down
a Rutgers University is an avid golfer. So if he's listening,
maybe he'll he'll take you up on that.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
Tom him come out and we'll play there first.
Speaker 4 (51:24):
Okay, Coach, thank you so much for sharing your perspective.
Can't wait to watch the cross country program and the
indoor and outdoor track programs this year. I expect big
things from you guys that Drew, so thank you so
much for your time.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
Thanks for everything you guys do. Really appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
Yeah, Sean, it's great to connect with you tonight. And
like Jimmy said, we're looking forward to supporting the what
you got going on and Drew and cheering for the
cross country teams. Nice and loud come conference and regionals
and all that good stuff. So best of luck with
the with the fall and heading into indoor and outdoor.
We do appreciate you joining us this evening.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
Absolutely all right, ladies and gentlemen. That is Sean Robinson
from Drew University. Make sure you go check out the
links in the show notes. Go send them a little
bit of love, let them know the area, Bro Sancha.
We will be back tomorrow night. Isaac Wood will be
joining us from Pacific University. They're starting to mend's cross
country program out there, so he's going to be filling
(52:29):
us in about what they got going out on the
West coast tomorrow night.
Speaker 3 (52:33):
Until then, we'll see you
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