Episode 413 — Breaking 26:40 at Run Rabbit Run 100: ER Nights, Big Mountains & Mental Mastery with Emily Coggin - Airey Bros.'s Radio

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to Airy Brose Radio, be there or B
Square because it's all killer, no filler. I am Emily Kagan.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
I am an ultrarunner, a nurse and a big aer Bros.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Fan.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
And you're listening to aeron Brose Radio.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Ladies and gentlemen, Howdy and loha, we are here, you
are there, and you are now rocking with the best.
We greatly appreciate you tuning in for another episode aery Bros. Radio. Today,
we are back in the mountains with one of our
favorite returning guests, Emily Coggan, here for her second appearance
on the show to break down her twenty twenty five
run Rabbit Run one hundred experience.

Speaker 4 (00:48):
But before we.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
Get no, before we get rolling, y'all know the drill.
Make sure you hammer that like button and are subscribed
on YouTube. Drop a comment, every view, review and share
helps us grow and get back to the sports we love.
As always, this episode is fueled by Black Sheep Endurance
for all your ultra marathon and nutrition coaching needs. And
let's not forget why we're here. We're here to shine
a light on the programs, athletes and storytellers we wish

(01:11):
we had access to growing up. If you love running, culture, coaching, insights,
and the process behind greatness, this one is for you.
On to today's guest. As I mentioned, Emily's back for
the second time to give us a recap on her
twenty twenty five run Rabbit Trail one hundred where she
finished second overall, finishing in twenty six thirty nine oh seven,

(01:31):
which was a monster pr what we'll get into. She's
a two time Leadville one hundred finisher, mastering one of
the most iconic hundred mile courses in the country, JFK
fifty finisher, representing her East Coast roots with classic ultra grit.
She also won never Summer one hundred k finisher, proving
durability and toughness in high altitude terrain. She's an r nurse,

(01:55):
a mountain athlete, a longtime black Sheep, and endurance coaching
athlete known for her real food fueling COMBINESET and surgical pacing.
Without further ado, it is an honored a pleasure to
have you joining us this evening or this afternoon. We
do greatly appreciate your time. Emily, Welcome to the show.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Thank you, Thank you both. I love the intro excited
to chat about all things running and real food.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
Absolutely, we're excited to get into it before we do.
If you have anywhere you would like people to find you,
if you want them to find you, share on social
media anything you got going on. If you like the
floor is yours.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yeah, I am a light Instagram user. At Emily Underscore Hoggan,
you can find mostly pictures of running, skiing, and my
dogs and just a place to celebrate how far I've
come with Black Sheep Endurance.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
Thank you. Oka. Well, let's get into it. Because you know,
following along with clients and races and stuff. You know,
sometimes it's a half marathon, sometimes it's a marathon, and
you get results relatively quickly. But when you go over
to the ultra marathon experience, sometimes you're following along and
then you go to sleep, and you get up and
you continue to follow along, and you know, you're clicking

(03:16):
refresh and seeing these updates and then finally when the
results come through in the smoke settle, you're like, holy smokes,
this is insane. So you had a big PR twenty
six thirty nine second female walk us through how the
race unfolded from the gun and what stood out for you,

(03:37):
what clicked for you.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
Well, this was my second time doing Run Rabbit, and
I had done it back in twenty nineteen, and that
was a year where I doubled hundreds that summer. So
I did two hundreds within eight weeks that summer, and
I had a good race and I was happy with

(04:04):
how I did, And I think that race taught me
a lot too.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
That was like the first like really long one hundred
i'd done, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
Like a thirty six hour cutoff. So definitely stretched myself then.
And then this summer I knew cohen In, I felt
pretty comfortable with the terrain, and just knowing the course
is a huge bonus, so I was excited to see
what I could do. And I last time I finished
just over thirty hours, and so this year my goal

(04:35):
was to just finish under thirty hours.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
And so going in.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
I really just wanted to focus on more running this summer,
and knowing that with my nursing schedule I had finite
time to train, I really wanted to make sure I
was getting in more running and let my experience of

(05:01):
hiking and all my other hiking skiing activities kind of
play into my strategy for training as well.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
You got to see the court, you went up and
saw the course a couple of times, right, Yes, Now
do you feel like that was something that helped obviously
knowing the course having run the race, but you know,
and I've done Leadville. The times that I've done, I've
I lived on the course, not literally, but I spent
did all my training on the course. It just makes

(05:34):
such a huge difference, kind of knowing where you are
in space and time.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
Yeah, I think that. I always feel like knowledge and
experience for are the two biggest things in an ultra
and because when things start going downhill and it's not
an if it's just a win, when you have those
little downturns or blips, then just knowing exactly what's coming

(05:58):
up and having a game plan is huge for me.
And I also like to I'm always thinking during the race.
I'm always thinking about where I am and where I'm
going next and calculating.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
I like thinking about vert I like thinking about miles.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
I like all the math problems that I can do
to keep myself occupied and focused on just running that race.

Speaker 4 (06:24):
So doing all the math problems in your head, said
you wanted to break thirty hours. Well you did more
than break thirty hours twenty six thirty nine, I believe.
And when you're doing the math, is there any point
where you're, oh, I'm going too fast or did you
know you felt good and it wasn't going to fall apart?

Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (06:47):
I think like my one of my biggest strengths in
running ultras is just really like knowing myself and knowing
how I feel on that day. And I think that's
come from two things. One it's come from experience I've done.
I was trying to count the other day and I
think I've done over thirty ultras now. And then with

(07:08):
this being my eighth hundred, and then being really confident
in my training and just the way that Rich has
me train both you know, uphills, flat speed, and then
a lot of just varying the level of distance versus

(07:31):
time stresses. I think I feel really confident in knowing
exactly how my body feels when it feels good and
when it feels bad, and knowing the difference between when
to push and when to not push. So I definitely
knew probably about even like twenty miles into the race,
I knew I was feeling good, like I felt very

(07:56):
just even keeled and very serene, like I had a
lot I knew I would would have a lot in
the tank later on for sure.

Speaker 4 (08:07):
Were you up in the top most of the race?

Speaker 1 (08:11):
I really had no clue where I was. And this
race is unique because it's a point to point, but
there is or it's not a point point excuse me.
It's an out and back, but there's an extra out
and back from like mile sixteen up till like mile
thirty you go down what's called Fish Creek Falls and

(08:32):
then back up, and so you end up seeing a
lot of the race. And I was like, oh, I
think I've been like top ten for women, but I think,
you know, I always say in my head when I
see people early in the race who passed me, I
always say, I'll see you in six hours, I'll see
you in sixteen hours, because I definitely am a second

(08:53):
half type of runner, and it takes me about three
or four hours to kind of feel like I'm like
in the race mode for sure.

Speaker 4 (09:02):
So what's the rice sor rich good? What surprised you
the most about your performance or the race?

Speaker 1 (09:11):
I think, just how I think in a lot of
races I've done. I definitely haven't run as much, especially
in like the second half, and this race, I definitely
I feel like I ran pretty much. I'd stay close
to eighty percent of this race, and that was that

(09:32):
was big for me because in my head I've always
had the story that I'm like a better hiker than
I am a runner when it comes to hundreds.

Speaker 4 (09:41):
And so.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
I definitely felt like my training this summer focusing more
on running. I had that extra year, especially in the
second half of the race. And then one of the
biggest things was I had my friend Corey, who I
race with and pace her and she paces me every year,

(10:05):
and she really pushed me and I let her push me.
Like a lot of other times and races I've been like, oh, no,
I'm just going to walk this section, but she was like,
we're going to run. And I told her at like
two am, I said, I don't care if it's ten feet,
I want to run every inch of this course that
is runnable. So she pushed me to do that and

(10:28):
then really pushed me on the last downhill like hard.
And I think that's a huge reason why I had
such success, as just having someone there to kind of
poke me with love to go faster.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
Did she have any idea where you were in the
race in terms of position.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
She did not have any idea about position, but she
was doing math in her head about pace. And at
the halfway mark, I I was going to be under
thirty like I knew if I walked it in I
would be under thirty hours. And then it became like, okay,
can I go under twenty nine? Can I go under
twenty eight? And then I was like, if I have

(11:10):
a twenty seven in front of my time, I'm going
to be happy. And I told her that at like
mile eighty, and in her head she was like, oh no,
we're going under twenty seven.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
So that's when she really like started pushing me.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
And then the last downhill you run like six and
a half miles down and this is where you ran
with me last time, Rich when I did it, you'd
lose like thirty five hundred feet, but you can, you know,
if you're feeling if you're feeling decent.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
You can let her rip. And I definitely did this year,
So yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
Yeah, that'd be. It has to be a good feeling,
because there's nothing worse than having that much runnable stretch
of trail slash terrain and your quads are just so
blown or you're just so shot. You've got a hike down.
So it must have been a good feeling being able
to roll down down that mountain.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, it definitely. I mean it's all relative, right, but
running like eight minute pace when you're at mile ninety
five of one hundred is feels pretty fast to me.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
So yeah, no doubt. But you mentioned, you know, things clicking,
having Corey and crew and everyone helping, pushing you and
keeping you going and all that. But was there any
dark moments throughout the.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah, we so around mile I'd say it's like it
was like around mile fifty five you start doing a
really long downhill. You go downhill for almost like twenty miles,
but it's like tons of switchbacks, like death by switchbacks,
where it just feels like you're never losing any altitude,

(12:59):
but you end up losing almost four thousand feet. And
you know, it's Colorado, It's it's summer, so the weather
could do anything, and it decided that it was going
to have a big storm, and not just any storm
like it snowed, it rained, it hailed, and a lot

(13:21):
of times I feel like in Colorado, those you know,
it's kind of like a squall, It just like rolls
through and then it's done.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
But this one hung out for over an hour, and.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
I was pretty chilly and pretty wet, but I just
like was like I don't care how fast I'm running
at this point, Like I don't know if I'm going
to blow my legs up by this, but I just
need to get down. I need to get lower elevation.
And I remember there were a lot of like really

(13:56):
cold people. I think they had a forty percent drop
rate this year, which is like one o the worst.
And I think that storm really took a lot of
people out because I had a real rain jacket and
I had mittens with me, but like a lot of
people didn't have anything and they looked pretty unhappy. So
that definitely saved me. But that was definitely a low

(14:18):
point where I was like, man, I am so cold,
and I think I just like ruined my race because
I just like sprinted downhill for like an hour. So
that was that was a tough mental talking to I
had to get myself through.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
Is that is that in and around the Olympia Hall,
like coming in and out of there.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yeah, so it was coming out. Yeah, it was coming
down from Summit Lake to the Dry Lake Station, and
so you're you know, you're you're not above tree line,
but you're at like nine thousand feet, so it was

(15:01):
pretty It was pretty pretty wet and cold. The whole
trail was just like a river of running water. There
was like no, you couldn't like run around the puddles
because there weren't any puddles. It was just like you
were in like a stream water. So I just kept thinking,
I need, I need to get down to the bottom
and I just need dry socks.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
It I'll be fine.

Speaker 3 (15:22):
Were you kind of feeding off of the energy of
the people that were suffering or dropping out, Yeah, a little.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
Bit, because I actually like I had a pretty good
congo line going behind me, and I kept, you know,
it's an ultra You're like, hey, if any if you
need to pass, let me know, and people were like, no, no,
we're just you're doing a good job pacing. So I
had like this group of fifteen twenty people behind me
just pacing off me, and I was like, I also

(15:50):
was in my head, I was like I don't care
if all these people passed me. I'm just gonna like,
I'm doing my thing, I'm running my race. And then
by the time we got to the next aid station,
I like stopped long enough to like chug a cup
of ramen and then just keep going because I was like,

(16:11):
I know, the only thing that's going to help this
is getting down and getting to my crew and getting dry.
And all these people were just hanging out, you know,
inside the tent, trying to get warm, trying to hang out, and.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
I was like, I don't know, That's not the way
they get through this.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
Keep moving.

Speaker 4 (16:29):
It was that at night.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
That was it was in the evening, so it was
like as the sun was setting. Yeah, so it was
it was it got dark and wet and cold.

Speaker 4 (16:43):
How long did it take for you to recover from
from that once you got dry clothes and some food
in you.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
I mean, I believe in the power of dry socks
and drys shoes, Like there's nothing more magical than that.
And I knew I had a coffee waiting for me
at the next aid station with my crew, and that
was going to be where I picked up my first pacer.
So I just had a lot. I just had a

(17:10):
lot to look forward to. And I also knew. That's
where like knowing the course comes in is like I
knew exactly what I was getting into and knew how
far I was and just also being able to be
done with the downhill, because going twenty miles downhill is

(17:30):
pretty brutal in an ultra for sure, So I was
just looking forward to not go downhill for a while.

Speaker 4 (17:39):
How many pacers did you have?

Speaker 1 (17:42):
I just had too. So I had my husband who
came off the bench the gold medal off the couch athlete,
and then Corey who did so she did thirty eight
miles with me, and then she did a race earlier
this summer where I did thirty eight.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
Miles with her.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
So it was a special little one for one deal
that we got to do together.

Speaker 3 (18:07):
So how far did Travis go with you?

Speaker 1 (18:11):
He did almost a half marathon on Emerald Mountain and
that was it was. It was actually good because he
he's a newer pacer and he's not necessarily an ultra runner,
but he actually he was kind of where I started
to be like, oh, I can push myself because he

(18:33):
you know, a lot of pacers are just like there
to hang out and chit chat and whatever. But he
just like took off running like he was running a
normal run. You know, We're going like eleven.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
Thirty pace going uphill, and I was like, all right, well,
I'll get to see how long I can do.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
This for and go from there. So yeah, he was
kind of where I started to feel like, oh wow,
I feel like I'm able to run. I'm not just
like in survival finish mode. I'm like actually like racing
this ultra. And that's where I started like passing a
lot of people.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
Was on Emerald Mountain. It's like around the.

Speaker 3 (19:12):
Halfway point, knowing knowing he's coming off the couch, did
you think to tell him to dial it back a
little bit or did you just say he's not gonna
be able to hold this will be all right.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
I mean part of me was like, oh man, he's
gonna blow up before I do. But no, he did great,
and he.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
I had instructed him beforehand. I was like, you know,
I want I just.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
Need you to compliment me, like every five to ten minutes,
Like it doesn't matter what you say, just say something
nice to me. So that's a huge part of my
race strategy.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
So I would imagine he's cracking some jokes along the
way too.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah, oh yes, yeah, he's uh, he's pretty unimpressed by
the whole ultra scene and how he did quite quite seriously.

Speaker 3 (20:03):
Was he giving you some David Goggins impersonations?

Speaker 1 (20:06):
It all out there for sure, thought if you stay hard, yes,
And then he was very excited because they had Paro
GI's at one of the eight stations, so that was
a highlight for him. Two am par Geese.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
It's pretty good.

Speaker 4 (20:27):
Yeah, yeah, So we got into ramen, we got into
Paro Giese. I was gonna wait till we got a
little bit more down the line in the podcast. But
what we're eating and besides the parogis, what'd they have
at the aid stations?

Speaker 1 (20:42):
They I actually so this is part of the reason
why I think I had a great races. I did
not stop at a single aid station except for the
ones where I got crude, so I had all my
own stuff with me, and then I stopped at one.
I stepped at two on the way on the back end,

(21:05):
like on the second day in the morning. And pancakes
were a big one this year. I discovered those earlier
this summer, just I don't know every summer I feel
like I find some new food that kind of.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Makes its mark on me.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
And then the best was at the last big AID
station before the top of the final descent.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
It's about I think it's about like.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
Thirteen miles from the finish or so. Scott Jerk and
his wife and the speed goat Carl Muntzer there running
this AID station, and so I had a hash brown
and a pancake that was made by Scott Durk, and

(21:56):
I was like, well, if I don't after this, like,
who who am I? So, yeah, that was really good.
But yeah, I just did really my usual kind of
normal food peant, butter, jelly, and yeah, I spent I

(22:16):
think I spent a total of maybe ten minutes in
AID stations.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
The whole time, so that's huge.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
Yeah, yeah, I spent zero minutes in any AID station
that was not crude.

Speaker 3 (22:30):
Now were you you said pancakes were a new thing
this year. Was that something you were you had pre
made and had them with you or did were you
getting them they had them at the aid stations? Both both? Okay, Yeah,
are you not doing any maple syrup with that? Or
do you have a little side pouch of maple syrup? Too.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
I had, Well, I went to France in August and
they have these like little prepackaged pancakes.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
I think they have like syrup in them. So I
had brought a bunch back with me from there, so
I had those and they were like it was a
treaty because it also made me think of being in
France and running in the mountains there, so that was
that was a nice little memento.

Speaker 3 (23:20):
Well, let's talk about that too, because you did go
to Europe for three weeks. I think it was you
got some time you were in Shamani.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yeah, yep.

Speaker 3 (23:30):
He also did the Dolomites. How how impactful do you
think that was come come race day?

Speaker 1 (23:39):
I mean, I think it essentially was a three weeks
of training pretty much straight. So my husband said it
was his type two honeymoon. He actually lost ten pounds
all around the street, even though we were eating like
carbohydrates all day. But I think, I mean, we literally

(24:02):
were outside all day every day in the mountains there,
just moving, whether it was running or hiking or biking.
And I think that really just it was a great
block of training for me because I just spent a
lot of time going up Hell and downhill, and especially
in Switzerland and then in Chamaney to the trails there

(24:26):
just you're you're either going up or down, there's no
in between. So I got a lot of good vertical
miles in there as well.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
So I guess he wasn't completely off the couch.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
No, I had to.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
I had to get him a little be where he
could pace me.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
So, yeah, are the mountains over there a lot different
than in Colorado?

Speaker 1 (24:53):
Yes and no. And we were in the Alps the
whole time, and each part of the Alps was very different,
but definitely definitely very very technical terrain like and and
pretty much from the jump like there's no kind of
easing into it. It's like you're just going. So that

(25:14):
was that was a good experience too, just to be
on terrain that was rocky and rudy, steep and very
challenging terrain for for me because I don't necessarily always
seek out the more.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
Technical trails here. So that was a good a good
training for me.

Speaker 3 (25:41):
Zuh Having been there, does UTMB peak your interest at all? Yes?

Speaker 1 (25:48):
And no. I think I don't know if I'd like
to do the race, but I would love to do
the actual journey and do like the huts and experience
the trail, not necessarily.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
Just in the form of a race. I think it's it.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
Would be more fun to do it. That's the other
joy about being over there is there's just so many
trails everywhere that you can really like get out in
the middle of nowhere and not have to see other
people necessarily. And I think running with three thousand other
people on a single track is not necessarily my idea

(26:25):
of fun. But yeah, the terrain there is pretty special.

Speaker 4 (26:32):
Yeah, so you said you're thirty ultras in. You said
you did a lot more a lot more running this time,
and you didn't stop at eight stations. Do you feel
like a seasoned vet at this point?

Speaker 1 (26:46):
I don't know. I think I feel like it's kind
of like saying like you're a Colorado native, right, Like
there is there, Okay, there's always someone who's more more
legit than me. But I think I think I have
enough experience to feel pretty comfortable in what I do

(27:10):
and not there's definitely a less of an imposter syndrome
on the starting line. I think.

Speaker 4 (27:19):
All right, let me rephrase that question. Do you feel
from your experience that's why you have the performance you
had and necessarily you're not going to do that you're
first or second ultra out because you need to kind
of get through it to get to it.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
Yeah, for sure, I think I think I've graduated a
little bit beyond just the like I just want to finish.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
Phase of running ultras and now.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
I'm like, can actually start to have more goals and
and really put myself out there a little bit more,
which is scary and stressful, and you know, I'm not
a professional athlete by any means, so and I think
I think that's a good It's it's growth, and it's

(28:09):
also you know, getting out of my comfort zone too
and just being like a finisher. I think that's been
been a big step forward for me personally.

Speaker 4 (28:22):
How was the recovery after the race?

Speaker 1 (28:26):
Besides my toenails, everything recovered pretty well. The last downhill
really did the number on me. But yeah, I think
I was back running like four or five days later,
pretty slow, easy, but I felt I felt good. And
I think that especially the last few years. And I
know I talked about this on the last podcast, Like,

(28:47):
I think I think a sign of being well trained
is recovering really fast, and I don't necessarily think that
means like I had more in the tank. It just
means that I like was well prepared, and that's you know,
thanks to obviously my training from Rich and then combined

(29:08):
I think also with the strength training aspect.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
I think that's.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
Really given me a lot of durability in this area.

Speaker 3 (29:19):
And I think when your nutrition's pretty dialed, then you're
able to eat and fuel and take care of all
that stuff lends itself to a pretty quick turnaround as
well too. I think when people bonk or you know,
that's when they or don't have the right electrolytes and stuff,
they get into cramping and those sorts of things that
can also put you back a couple of days or

(29:40):
a couple of weeks in terms of being able to
get back to running and resume normalcy or mostly normalcy.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
Yeah, I definitely I started adding in more electrolytes than
I previously have in the last I think really the
last like two years, we'll almost even like double up
kind of the normal amount that you would put in
you know, your half liter bottle or whatever it is.

(30:09):
And I think that really does make a difference. And
I think not I think trying to get nutrients from
real food too, is for me. I know, there's all
this research about my carb and calories and carbs and
all that thing, and I think, like that's great for

(30:29):
some people.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
And I think and.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
It's just like in real life, right, Like if you
can get sustenance and vitamins from real food or you know,
macro nutrients from real food, it's always better absorbed in
the body than by taking supplements what.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
We're using for electrolytes.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
This year, I did a mix of Noon an Element.

Speaker 3 (30:57):
Okay, so yeah, flavor you're rocking with.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
For the noon.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
I like the cherry and then Element. I like, I
like all of them, but the watermelon and then the
new lemonade or are my favorites.

Speaker 3 (31:12):
So yeah, let's talk about work life balance, all right.
I don't know if we were we were officially on
when we start we were talking. But you are in
the r you are working nights. You mentioned you don't
necessarily get to see the light of day sometimes when
you're working those hours, and we I don't want to

(31:36):
say joke, but we kind of talk about you know,
that's it's good training. It's good mental training, like you're
going to be up in a race and those sorts
of things. But at the end of the day, that
can also just take a toll. Our bodies aren't necessarily
designed to be nocturnal, So how how do you manage
all that? And have you been able to make tweaks

(31:58):
and adjustments over the year in getting better at balancing that.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
Yeah, I definitely agree that there is like a balance
of it being like I call it my secret weapon,
right like i'm I'm I'm built for doing work at
night now, so like the night overnight shift and the
ultra of the hundred is really not it doesn't phaze
me as much and in fact, sometimes I feel better,

(32:28):
you know, two in the morning than I do at
two in the afternoon. So but it definitely in the
training piece, it becomes a little bit more of a
chess game to arrange my schedule and make sure I
am not you know, putting long runs on days where

(32:50):
I have to work necessarily or the day after I work,
because it is pretty fatiguing, especially if you're working several
nights in a row, and.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
No matter how much.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
I sleep during the day, it's just it's not the
same as sleeping at night as well. And I think
I you know, I have a deficit of sleep that
I definitely.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
Have to catch up on as well. And I think,
obviously we know sleep is so important for recovery, so
I think for me, I definitely tried to arrange my
running schedule so that I was doing more stressful workouts
or longer workouts where I could actually have a full,
proper night of sleep afterwards, and not just you know,

(33:36):
four or five hours during the middle of the day
before I had to work again.

Speaker 4 (33:41):
Do you ever try to test those days?

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Pardon?

Speaker 4 (33:46):
Do you ever try to test those days? Like, oh,
you know you're going to work late and then and
then go right for a run, just so you're run
and when you're tired.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
I usually do run right after my shift, but I
tried not to do big runs, although I did do
when I was running with Cory this summer. She did
the High Loansome race down in Buena Vista, and she
wanted to do a couple of big days down there

(34:16):
on the course, and I agreed, and I the only
time I had was after some night shifts. So I
got off work and I drove down there and then
we ran like thirteen miles in a pretty you know,
technical Colorado High Colorado Trail high altitude train and I definitely,

(34:38):
I can definitely tell I have a little more stumbles
than me, but once I get going, I'm usually okay.
But I definitely see the value in that type of
stress training that I don't know if other people can
create recreate in their lives, you know, without having a
job like mine. So I think that's definitely an advantage

(34:59):
for me.

Speaker 4 (35:01):
So when you get done, I know you said you
had some bigger goals and you're reflecting, do you see, hey,
I could have done this different, I could have done
this better, or do you just focus on, oh, next time,
I can do this, I can do that.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
I think there's always you know, it's the Hindsight's twenty
twenty Monday Morning quarterbacking. I think there's always things that
I look back on and I think, oh, gosh, well
I could have made up time here, I could have
run more there, you know, whatever it is. And I
think too, part of like maturing as an ultrarunner is

(35:41):
not just nitpicking every race and just being like happy
and accepting the outcome for what it is and just
moving forward with that and using that as fuel for
bigger goals. My biggest regret from this race was after
So I didn't know I was in second place.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
Until after i'd finished the race.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
And I even passed someone in the finished shoot and
this this lady was walking it into the finish.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
Line, and I was like, well, I'm running. I'm running
through the line.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
Because that's what I was taught to do from you know,
high school track all the way through college, Like you
finished through that line and you do not stop until
you're past it.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
And so I passed her like right at the line.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
So I would have been third if I didn't do that.
But I found out when they put the official results
out that I was only five minutes behind the first
place lady. And in my head, I was like, if
I had known that, I would.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
Have hunted her down.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
I would have gotten her, Like there's no question I
would have just like I would have made it happen.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
So that was that was my big regret.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
The eight runner and you would have came out, wouldn't
it have? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (36:58):
Exactly coming off the last and just reeled her.

Speaker 3 (37:02):
And how was the woman that you passed right at
the line. What was her reaction? Did she react at all?
Did she say anything?

Speaker 1 (37:12):
No? And it was. It's funny because he had passed
me probably at like mile like forty, and I remember,
like everyone, like I said, every especially the women like
people who passed me. I'm like, okay, I'll see you later.
And in my head I was like, oh, I finally

(37:34):
caught her. But I think she was pretty Uh she was,
she was not she was happy to be done.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
She was not running anymore.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
So, yeah, well, you mentioned you got back to running
pretty pretty soon after got back into training, and you
do have a fifty k coming up. What was and
I don't recall them have been, but I don't know
if that was necessarily on the calendar to start. What

(38:04):
brought that about? And it's a qualifying race, so how
does that whole qualifying process work for that?

Speaker 1 (38:11):
Well, the one of my really good friends who she
actually works for Lifetime, who puts on the Level one hundred,
she has been working on putting this race on. Shout
out to Sarah. So it's a brand new race for
Lifetime and a brand new part of the country in Aniston, Alabama.

(38:33):
And she had told me about it last year when she.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
Had been working on it.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
And Corey, who I run with all the time, is
from Alabama from pretty close to there, so we were like, oh,
that would.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
Be super fun to go and run you know where
she grew up.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
And I'd go back to the East Coast, which I
had said I wasn't going to do any more ultras there,
especially in this but now now I'm it's okay because
it's October. And then the idea of after last year
at Leadville, I kind of, you know, we had chatted

(39:11):
and kind of talked about maybe going for the big buckle,
just going for a little bit faster time, and so
this year wasn't the year, but I think next year
is hopefully the year, and maybe I can get a
qualifier coin at this race and make my way back

(39:35):
to Leadville and try to send it big. So it's scary,
it's scary to say it out loud, but I think
I think that's a big, a big goal, and I'm
ready to work for it.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
How do the coins work for this one?

Speaker 1 (39:56):
This one is they have the age group coins and
then the drawing as well.

Speaker 3 (40:03):
Yeah, and I know last year, after last year when
we talked, it was I can go under twenty five,
and I would imagine going twenty six thirty nine. That
Run Rabbert Run is pretty reassuring that a big buckle
is in the cards for sure.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
I mean, I think I know I can do it,
and I think the going back to I think being
a former there's my dog in the background. Being a
former track athlete, and especially like a college track athlete,
there is a level.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
Of almost PTSD.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
I think that I carry from pushing myself very hard
running and feeling very bad. And I think I've been
very scared of going to that place for a long time,
and I think these past few years, I've allowed myself

(41:06):
to put myself out there, to push myself more, and
I think, especially after this race at Run Rabbit, I
think I felt like I do have the ability to
do that again, and I think I have a desire

(41:26):
to race, not just to finish, and knowing that that
it will it will take harder work and it will
take more discomfort, and I'm okay with that.

Speaker 4 (41:41):
Well, Emily, you're hand on your PTSD way better than
me because you've run a lot more races than I
do so and I have full faith in you. Like Rich,
just to add to lol, Rich said your performance at
Run Rabbit Run, I know you're going to get that
big buckalot Leadville, so uh, no need to be scared.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
Send it well, thank you? And I think I think
too it's I know that course so well, which is
a blessing and a curse, right, I know, like every
quarter mile essentially of the course and so but it
is it is a special, a special and a stressful race.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
But I think it is. I think it's possible for sure.
So with with my training plan from from Rich, I
think I can. I can do it.

Speaker 3 (42:35):
You got this. I'm curious as someone who's back in
the coaching ranks and coaching high school kids, in high
school girls, you know that that stress, anxiety, maybe even
trauma that comes with racing and being uncomfortable. If you

(42:58):
could go back to your high school self for your
college self, what advice would you give to maybe alleviate
some of that stress or anxiety that comes around racing.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
Oh wow, I think I've thought a lot about this
lately too, with like this is getting more philosophical and
just general and like how how I define myself or
how I define like value in myself and like I

(43:35):
if I couldn't run, like if I broke my leg
and I couldn't run for six months, Like how would
I respond? Because I running is such a huge part
of my identity, just like being a nurse is a
huge part of my identity. And I think in high school,
you're when you're an athlete, that is such a big

(43:55):
part of your identity, especially teenagers. And I think if
I had been able to run, been a little freer
to just run for the sake of running because I
loved it and I loved the challenge and I loved

(44:15):
pushing myself, I think if I had had like a
little less attachment to the outcome and also the identity
part of it, I think I would have actually been
a lot more successful. I can remember my senior year
of high school outdoor track. I was like one of

(44:36):
the people who has favored to win the outdoor eight hundred,
and I just like I got the yips, like I
just I was so anxious and I just blew my
own race like I just never was in it because
I just was already.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
In my head before the gun even went off.

Speaker 1 (44:54):
And I think if I had just been like, this
is my last race as a high school athlete, I'm
just gonna send, I think I could have maybe won.

Speaker 3 (45:03):
So yeah, It's interesting, you know, talking with a lot
of the coaches and people that we've talked to lately,
I think if I would have slowed down and not
been so you know, I'm always on the kids about
looking at their watches and that sort of stuff, and
you know, it's always about what pace am I running.
And it seems like now with the Inger Britson's and

(45:25):
the threshold and double threshold training and sub threshold training,
it's like all these elite athletes are doing things probably
slower than what they're capable of, and they're getting these
unbelievable results. So I always think back, well, man, if
I wasn't so concerned of like, oh, if it's not
under seven minutes a mile, it doesn't count, and all

(45:47):
these different things, these stories that you tell yourself, might
have been a whole different experience, both in high school
and college.

Speaker 1 (45:56):
Yeah, I definitely agree, and I think it. I think
there is like a trend in ultra running to get more,
to make it more. It's becoming more of a i
don't know, organized sport, which is great because it's getting
more popular and there's more races and all that things.
But I think like for me, especially the joy of

(46:19):
like training is the training. Like the joy of racing
is the training. Like I love just to adventure in
the mountains and be out there and spend time and
be gone for an entire day and just have everything
I need in my vest with me. And I look
at you know, Courtney Dwalter, who's the greatest ultrarunner male
or female probably you know, arguably, and she doesn't wear

(46:43):
a watch. She just runs. She just goes out and trains.
And I think that's like, there is like that purest
aspect that I appreciate about trail running and ultra running
that I think track and cross country has a little
bit more. Just yeah, there is like we're regimented training

(47:06):
with it. And I totally agree that. Yeah. It's like
if you don't hit your split exactly, you're like, oh,
this workout was terrible, and you're like, okay, well you're
still doing something right.

Speaker 3 (47:19):
So yeah, well, we got the fifty k next week,
but and hopefully Leadville next year. Are there any other
ultras in the future that excite you?

Speaker 1 (47:36):
Well, I am doing I did this race last year.
I'm doing a fifty k Nordic race in Wisconsin again.
So that's a different kind of ultra but still challenging
and very fun. And then I would Yeah, I just

(47:58):
I would love to do. I mean, I'll keep trying
to get into hard rock and Western States and maybe
I'll get in before I die. But yeah, I would
love to do one of those, just the I think
doing hard rock that's like my holy grail for running.

(48:18):
I think I would just be thrilled to be out there.

Speaker 3 (48:22):
So well, you know what's going to happen, as you're
going to get pulled for both in the same year,
and I will do.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
Them both, but I'll probably be like eighty by that time.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
So who knows, Well how many tickets now do you have,
because don't they double.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
For oh gosh, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
I calculated my odds last year and it was like
I had less than like I think I had like
less than one percent chance of getting pulled, which you.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
Know you're saying there's a chance, but.

Speaker 4 (48:57):
Final for rich let's do it, Emily. I'm sure you
told me your process the last time, but I am
a bad podcast co host and I didn't look see
what you said. Are you a coffee drinker?

Speaker 1 (49:11):
I am?

Speaker 4 (49:12):
How do you brew your coffee and how do you
take it?

Speaker 1 (49:15):
I do an oat milk latte or I've been doing
Americano with like a splash.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Of oat milk.

Speaker 4 (49:24):
Do you have a preferred brand of oat milk?

Speaker 1 (49:28):
I'm an oatly, the like plain one, not too much,
nothing in it, no stuff in it.

Speaker 3 (49:36):
So, Emily, do you have any daily practices or rituals
you do on a regular basis to show up as
the strongest version of Emily Coggan?

Speaker 1 (49:47):
I always get outside for at least ten minutes, try
to walk, run, do something, even if I have no
time to do anything else.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
I also do ten minutes of core every day because
there's always ten minutes to do core.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
And then I try to spend a little time with
my dogs because I think they just bring me joy
and there's.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
Nothing like having a little unconditional love in your life.

Speaker 4 (50:19):
So what are you listening to right now? Music? Podcast, audio, books?
Are you reading anything?

Speaker 1 (50:29):
I just listen to Kurre Dematto's new book, which is
really good. She's uh, she's got a really interesting story
about kind of, you know, her journey through running and
how she came back and to professional running and just
managing that with her whole life balance and I find

(50:52):
that really inspiring. And it was a really interesting book,
not just for the running part but also just the
life part as well. And then I am reading Oh gosh,
I can't remember the name of it. I think it's
called say Nothing. It's about like the troubles in Ireland.
So real uplifting.

Speaker 4 (51:16):
Well, you got me hooked on Frida again last year.
So do you got any more music suggestions?

Speaker 2 (51:22):
Oh? Man, I have?

Speaker 1 (51:27):
Well, Rich is now my my pipeline for forrib sessh.
But yeah, Freddigan is always always good. Yeah, a little
Sophie Tucker now and then too, so right on.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
Yeah, I don't know if I said it to you.
He did put out a new live set recently. It
was pretty good. Yeah, And my last one we got
for you to close it out, slight hard one. It
could be unique food item in Colorado. We know you
don't drink anymore, but maybe there's some other mocktail or

(52:02):
something out there. Maybe you're a closet swifty. Do you
have a guilty pleasure?

Speaker 1 (52:08):
I am a closet swifty, but I don't feel like
it's a guilty pleasure because I don't I don't think
that I don't think anything should be guilty pleasure. I
think people should just let their freak like fly. But
I am a huge football fan and I am like
obsessed with the NFL, and it annoys my husband that

(52:31):
I want to spend time reading about football and watching
it and but it fascinates me and I I think
it's a very enjoyable thing to watch.

Speaker 4 (52:45):
So you Ravens fan, Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
We're having a tough year. But I'm not a bandwagon
fan like the Broncos fans. I ride with my team
through through ups and downs.

Speaker 3 (53:03):
Do you do you cheer for the Is it the generals?

Speaker 4 (53:06):
Now?

Speaker 3 (53:06):
Are the commanders?

Speaker 2 (53:09):
No?

Speaker 3 (53:09):
Not really know, you're just.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
Yeah the other Beltway?

Speaker 4 (53:15):
Okay, you dabble on college football or just the NFL.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
I do like college football, but I I don't know,
there's it's it feels weird now with all the nil
and just all the weird the playoff stuff. But yeah,
NFL football is just very It's not pure, but it
feels like it's a little bit. It's a different tier

(53:45):
of nonsense than college.

Speaker 4 (53:51):
Well, Emily, thank you so much for taking time from
watching football on Sunday to join the Area bros to
let us daydream about steamboat. Congratulations, you had an awesome race.
When Richard told me, I was blown out of the water.
I think it's incredible. So keep it up and I
will be watching and I know rich will be keeping

(54:13):
me both.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
Well. Thank both of you for having me. I'm honored
to be a repeat guest and I'm the big aries
Bros Fan and I always.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
Find your guys interview is very.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
Inspiring and informative, and I just appreciate both of you
for what you do. And rich I appreciate you for
being my sense, my shirpa for all these years.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
And I know that you've got my back no matter what,
so that's huge.

Speaker 3 (54:48):
Yeah, I appreciate you. I was thinking about it today
as I was getting ready for this. You are the
longest standing Black Sheep endurance athlete right now. I think
we started in twenty seventeen. So yeah, it's been an
unbelievable journey and a fun ride. And yeah, to see
you kind of go from the beginning in twenty seventeen

(55:09):
where it was like I don't I don't do intervals anymore.
That reminds me of coach Donner and Bucknell in high
school track. And as we've come through it, You've warmed
up to them more and more and more, and yeah,
it was really awesome to see the ticker come through
and see how you did this year. And I'm excited
for not only for you to get that coin next week,

(55:31):
but to get that big buckle next year as well. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
Well, I couldn't do it without you, and I'm excited
to it's possible.

Speaker 3 (55:43):
So cool. Well, good luck to you next week. We
do appreciate you taking the time. And if the Ravens
are playing today, go Ravens.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
They have a bye. Thank god. I need a break
from there. Sugressful, but thank you. I appreciate both of you.

Speaker 3 (55:59):
Yeah, all right, ladies and gentlemen. That is Emily Coggin.
Make sure you go check out the links in the
show notes. Go give her a little love on Twitter.
She's got always got some great outdoor photos, like she said,
so go check that out and take a look at
those results next week down in Alabama. That is it
for today. We will be back tomorrow. We have Nicole
Starks joining us from Rutgers University. We'll be talking all

(56:21):
things Scarlet Night cross country and track and field, and
then on Wednesday evening We're gonna have a Jayhawk Conference
roundtable with some of our friends from the Jayhall Conference
to talk about one of the most competitive conferences in
the NJCAA Division one cross Country rank. So we'll see
you tomorrow night at seven pm.

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Episode 413 — Breaking 26:40 at Run Rabbit Run 100: ER Nights, Big Mountains & Mental Mastery with Emily Coggin

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 413 — Breaking 26:40 at Run Rabbit Run 100: ER Nights, Big Mountains & Mental Mastery with Emily Coggin