In this powerful episode of Amazing Women & Men of Power: Legends & Icons Yesterday, Today & Tomorrow, host Raven the Talk Show Maven welcomes two extraordinary guests whose lives are rooted in purpose, compassion, and service.
✨ Lonnie Ali — widow of the legendary Muhammad Ali, co-founder of the Muhammad Ali Center, and host of the inspiring Ali and Me podcast — shares how she’s carrying forward the Champ’s legacy of compassion, justice, and unity. From the groundbreaking Compassion Report to unheard recordings of Muhammad himself, Lonnie reminds us that kindness is not just a memory — it’s a movement.
🙏 Bishop Warner H. Brown Jr. — retired United Methodist bishop, executive leadership coach, and founder of Impactful Teams LLC — joins Raven to talk about faith, resilience, and compassionate leadership. With stories from his personal encounter with Muhammad Ali to lessons from decades of ministry, Bishop Brown reveals why love and listening are at the heart of true leadership.
Together, Lonnie and Bishop Brown inspire us to embrace compassion as a daily practice and a force for transformation in our lives, communities, and the world. 🌍💫
✨ Lonnie Ali — widow of the legendary Muhammad Ali, co-founder of the Muhammad Ali Center, and host of the inspiring Ali and Me podcast — shares how she’s carrying forward the Champ’s legacy of compassion, justice, and unity. From the groundbreaking Compassion Report to unheard recordings of Muhammad himself, Lonnie reminds us that kindness is not just a memory — it’s a movement.
🙏 Bishop Warner H. Brown Jr. — retired United Methodist bishop, executive leadership coach, and founder of Impactful Teams LLC — joins Raven to talk about faith, resilience, and compassionate leadership. With stories from his personal encounter with Muhammad Ali to lessons from decades of ministry, Bishop Brown reveals why love and listening are at the heart of true leadership.
Together, Lonnie and Bishop Brown inspire us to embrace compassion as a daily practice and a force for transformation in our lives, communities, and the world. 🌍💫
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to amazing women and men of power, legends and
icons from yesterday, today, and tomorrow. I'm Raven, the talk
show maiden, your host, and wow, are we excited to
share our guests with you today? For sure, because she's remarkable.
(00:30):
She stood beside Muhammad Ali through it all, not just
as his wife, but as a dedicated advocate leader enforced
for compassion. As the widow of legendary Muhammad Ali, she
has made it her mission to ensure his message of compassion,
justice and unity lives on not just a memory, oh no,
but in action. She's the co founder of the Muhammad
(00:52):
Ali Center, the visionary behind the groundbreaking Compassion Report, and
the host of the new podcasts Ali and Me. I
love that her mission isn't just about remembering Muhammad Ali,
oh No, It's about carrying forward his extraordinary legacy to
inspire real change in the world today and now, without
(01:14):
further ado help me welcome. In fact, if you're standing,
sit down, and if you sit and stand up, because
the lady is here, Lannie Owen yi Fani is an
honor to be with you today. How you doing.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I'm great, Braven, thank you for having me today.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Oh my goodness. I was telling one of your pr
people that I wore blessed shirt because that's how I
feel about interviewing you today.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Very blessed. Oh thank you, thank you. I'm blessed to
be here.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
As you know, you're a husband, not only as the
greatest in the ring, but also one of the most
powerful voices for compassion, justin and unity. What do you
think was the biggest driving force behind his own wavering
dedication to humanitarian.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Muhammad? It was just who he was. It was it
was the fiber from which he was made. Okay. I've
known him since I was six years old and he
was twenty two when I met him, and it was
there then, this is just who he was, and compassion
was at the core of who he was. Compassion for others.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Yeah, at the core. I love that. I love that.
So you said you met him when you were six
years old, and this is the spirit, like you said,
at the core, that he's always had, even as a child.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I believe. So I always like to tell people that
I believe Muhammad had the hand of God put on
him before he even came here, right, because it was
he had a heart of gold, and that's you know
why people loved him so much because they knew that
he loved them without wanting anything in return. Anybody who
(03:02):
met him, he was interested in who they were, you know,
and he had that ability to touch humanity, the humanity
in each one of us, no matter how deeply it
might be buried, right, no matter what baggage we were
carrying with us, he didn't care. You could drop it
right there. He was concerned about you. He was interested
in you.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I love that and I actually really what stood out
when you were talking was when you said, without expecting
anything in return, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Important, right, never, never, never wanted anything in return for
what he did for people. He didn't keep score, you know,
he didn't. He didn't have a book, a tallly of
who he helped. He couldn't tell you how many people
he helped or what he did for them. He just
whf he saw someone in need, he felt that it
was his duty to assist. And you know that's something
(03:56):
he taught us, taught me and the kids, that we
should be in a race every day to do good,
to do acts of kindness every day. And that's what
this Compassion for Report is about, is about flexing that
compassion muscle daily where it becomes such a habit, such
an integral part of who we are, we do it
without even thinking.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
M mm hmm. The Compassion Report is so so so needed.
And I know you started this a while back. Did
you ever think it was going to really be as
needed as it is now? Ronnie?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
You know, it's funny about how things happened with Muhammad.
I mean, this is part of his legacy, a very
important part. When we hadn't discovered a friend of mine, Farrapanda,
who is the first Muhammad Ali Center Global Peace Laureate,
who's a former diplomat with the State Department, who is
an expert on radicalization of individuals, She and I were
(04:55):
thinking about this, and even though we thought about it then,
it was obvious there had been a decline and compassion
in the nation and it was one of the parts
of Muhammad's legacy that we had not really focused on
and highlighted and felt maybe it might be time, but
never did we ever expect it to be so needed
(05:17):
as it is at this moment in time.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
I took a look at, you know, some of the
information on the website, and that's the first thing that
came to me. Learning. I was like, oh my god,
is this ever so needed? Yea, yeah, it breaks my
heart that people do not have the compassion. We're all
humans and that's a huge missing piece.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
It is. We have devolved, you know over the last
five years, and the report found that sixty one percent
of people in America feel that compassion has been on
the decline in the last five years. However, I should
say this as well, there has been a four thousand
percent increase in the number of people who have been
(05:57):
looking for content on compassion online. So they realize it,
but they're still searching to find it. So that's important.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, that's very very important.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Yes, it gives me hope that it's something they want us.
They want us to bridge the divide, right, they want
us to work together, they want us to find common ground.
You know, there used to be a thing where people
called each other neighbors, and what did they mean being
a neighbor? You know, you cared about that person. The
report sort of delves into that, you know, about how
(06:32):
we treat It's called the five layers of compassion, where
you start with yourself, right, it starts with self compassion.
You've got to have compassion for yourself, and if you don't,
you can't give it. So it's about self care, taking
care of yourself. And I will say that women gen
Z and millennials have the hardest time practicing that self compassion. Women,
(06:55):
it's always we're caregivers. We're more interested in our friends
and family than we are about taking care of ourselves.
That's just a given. But there's also a feeling of unworthiness,
of feeling guilt of practicing that self compassion. But like,
I want to stress that too, because if you don't
have it, you can't give it. It all starts within exactly,
(07:17):
it absolutely does.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I wonder if you've did the report find anything, any
statistics you can share as far as like age. You know,
people at the age they are like the gen X
and the boom. I'm a boomer, you know, I'm in
my seventies and and I feel like back in the
day there was more compassion. I'm just curious, what did
you report touch on that at all?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
It didn't. It didn't go you know, like what used
to be, but it did. The study did include I
think it was five thousand, four hundred and seventeen people.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Okay, respond to all.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
The ages were eighteen to seventy two, So it covered generations, right,
it covered generations of people, and of course it was
across twelve the pilot cities. There was twelve diverse pilot
cities that were included across the country. So you know,
we got to I think we got a good mix
of people. But it did not measure. That was one statistic.
(08:22):
We did not say, you know, how do you feel
compassion was twenty years ago, although there was a stat
in there that said the compassion has declined over the
last five years, which everybody knows and fields. But twenty
years ago we would never found our thought of finding
(08:42):
ourselves in this era, right, I mean we were able
to disagree politically, and we may have even had different
views on social aspects of our lives or of our
community or of the nation policies. I not have always
agreed on policy, but as far as compassion, having feelings
(09:06):
of well being for others, for ourselves and for others,
that's definitely changed.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Mm hm that too. It really breaks my heart.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Right, And that's what we're raising our grandchildren in this
environment I.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Was just going to bring up and makes me think
of my grandchildren, right, what are they going to be
living through you know.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Exactly exactly the hate, the hateful rhetoric and the toxic
polarization has pushed it into corners and groups and you know,
to us versus them mentality. And I have to say,
and as most people know, COVID didn't help any of that,
because that was about isolation and staying away from people
(09:49):
and not interacting with people and not having that human
contact which needs so important. That's right, we do need
each other.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Yeah, just real quickly for I just wanted to tell
the audience you know that compassion isn't just the word,
it's a movement. And that's what you guys got going
on now, a movement. And if today's conversation with Lonnie
Ali isn't a blessing to you, and that is inspiring you.
(10:17):
If it is, you're gonna love Lonnie new podcast, Ali
and me. I wanted to segue into that because I'm
excited about that. I've got to ask you, with so
much on your plate, how did you come up with podcasts?
I can tell you a natural talker. Now, well, look
(10:38):
from one talk show into a new talk show.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Maiden, Oh no, not hardly have enough work. But let
me say this just to button up the Compassion Report
because there's a lot of information in that report. I'd
love for your listeners to go to aliindex dot org.
Okaynlad download the report, read it. Please read it, and
at the end there's an action item. We want you
(11:02):
to sign the Compassion Pledge because this is a personal
commitment on your part to practice compassion daily, just like
Muhammad did. He said, you said, tell me and the kids,
we need to be at a race every day to
do good every day with acts of kindness. Muhammad was
all about acts of kindness and like I said, once
you put that into your life, start doing it, it
(11:25):
becomes not just a habit, it becomes part of who
you are. So I just wanted to add that. Now.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Thank you for adding that, and we'll make sure we
have the links and everything that we put out. I
appreciate you and now definitely going to bring that up.
But why not bring it up now for sure, because
you know we want them to not just look at
it but actively engage in it.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Right right exactly, we can.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Read stuff all day, listening to stuff all day, but
until we engage in some way, whether it's sharing it,
whether whatever we're doing that's how we engage, and that's
how we remember and really make this a strong movement.
So thank you again for that.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
You know, let me add this too. I dare your
readers to report by to the ALI Center how they
feel once they start doing this. Okay, I would love
to have their input, because people, it's gonna make you
feel better about you, your outlook on life when you
(12:23):
help people, and you know, doing these acts of kindness,
you're going to think about that at the end of
the day. You know, it's gonna make you feel good.
So it's if there's benefit for you as well as
the person you're being kind to, right, So I would
love to hear from them.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Okay, well we're gonna have to push that for sure. Absolutely,
but another way of being engaged one of the best ways.
And you know, as a creator myself, I get that
because you want to know, Okay, is this moving in
the right direction? Is there a missing piece or you
know what really popped out and made a difference for you?
What was your transformation from reading the report right right?
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Absolutely was about the podcast Allie and Me, which I'm
so proud of. It's on audible you can download it now.
All eight episodes, and I'm joined with my co host
John Ramsay, who was a longtime friend of Muhammad's and
the current still a friend of mine. He formed a
radio host, so he had really good experience in this.
(13:23):
But it was a seven year passion project, if I
may say, another attempt of mine to feel the void
of Muhammed's passing, which I felt so intensely, as did John,
who's a fellow Lowivillion. When Muhammad passed, there was just
(13:44):
his voice needed to be heard, and you know, just
the foot like I talk about the footprint that he left,
and I wanted to find out how he inspired other people,
you know, what was the because there was a little
bit of Ali and all of us, right, That's what
we wanted to discover, and we were. We were fortunate
enough to have a wide range of people who were
(14:07):
guested on this podcast. Some people Muhammed knew well who
were friends, and some people who had never met it
but were inspired by his example. And uh, I learned
a lot, learned a lot in this podcast, and I
think people who listen will be inspired. I just came
back from New York from a couple of audible events
promoting the podcast and was happy to learn that it
(14:30):
has a five out of five radio Audible. Yeah, five
five stars out of five stars, so that's why. But
we also found out that people are marking the podcast,
coming back and listening to sections of it because they
need that daily inspiration, and they're listening to the podcast
(14:52):
in full multiple times. And what is so great about
this is not only that we have this. You know,
it's one thing to rea eat something like you said,
but to actually have the voices of people to me
is so powerful. And what makes it even more powerful
is that we have audio of Mohammed on this podcast
(15:17):
that has never been heard before, so you yes, you
will hear Mohammad's voice as well, which sort of helps
with that feeling of people used to ask me and
continue to ask me, especially during some difficult issues that
you've had in this nation in the last five or
six years, incidents that have occurred. You know, what would
(15:38):
Mohammad say? And we get that all the time. And
you've seen Muhammad everywhere, right, You're still see in the
news all over the place, and people miss his voice
and his wisdom and his inspiration and his guidance. You know,
he's like that shining star on a hill and beacon
of light that you can follow, and this hearing his
(15:58):
voice on this podcast, it's well, it made me emotional,
of course, but it's just so powerful. It just makes
it that much better. So I invite I invite your listeners.
I mean when we talk about the guests that we had,
we had people that I had never dreamed of interviewing,
like Black Thought Killer, Mike, Mike Tyson, people that I
(16:24):
know too, Will Smith, Bob Costas, Billy Crystal, Brian Stevenson,
Uh Layla Mohammed's daughter of course, Rosie Perez, Alison your
extremely I was just with her in New York. Wonderful woman.
Uh Governor Kasik of Ohio. You know, there's just so
(16:47):
many that we interviewed that we interviewed and athletes as well.
But hopefully we'll have a second season and we get
to bring you more joy, more instation.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I'm sure you're going to have season after season and two.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
You get of doing I can't get enough more Ali
and me.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
I love that, And just real quickie, because I think
we got about two more minutes left. I do want
to share with you because you were talking about how
he has inspired so many people in different ways. I know,
for me from feeling like Casper, you know, the friendly
goals and never getting recognized, acknowledged, just feeling dismissed and overlooked.
One thing, there's a couple of things I took away
(17:27):
from him. One is when he said I am the
greatest you know that. I think all of us picked
a piece of that up and we because I hear
many many famous speakers say, now you know, it's just
like Muhammad Ali said, you make the decision that you're
the greatest you know and really walk into that. Another
thing real quickly is I can't remember the quote exactly, Lonnie,
(17:49):
but it was something like somebody asked him what was
more important the skill of the will? And he said
the skill is Both are important, but the will is
more more important than the skill. And that sticks with
me all the time. You know, when I'm wondering why
things aren't going right in business, always well, Raven, test
your why, what's your why? What's the wheel? How hungry,
(18:12):
as Les Brown says, are you to get it? You know,
just calmly going for it. It's the difference. So I
wanted to share that my little piece of my voice
of inspiration.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Well, that's the allie in you we all take. You know,
Mohammed was very layered and very faceted. Welcome and everybody
takes their peace, yeah, you.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Know, yeah, well Lanni, I know my time is going on.
I do want to respect your time and your teen's time.
This has been such an honor. Thank you so much,
amazing women and men of power.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Thank you so much, Raven, I really appreciate it, and
I hope we'll be here.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Welcome back a little time, Okay, thank you all right,
bye bye, Lani yay, welcome back to amazing women and
men of power. Wow, what a powerful conversation we just
had with Lani Ali, the devoted wife and now widow
of the late great Muhammad Ali. You know, guys, her
(19:13):
words about compassion, about leading with her even when life
throws its biggest punches, you know those curveballs. When she
talked about that, it truly was so moving. Well, that
same spirit, guess what of compassion carries forward right now
with our next guest, someone who would not only believes
(19:36):
in the power of love to heal, but has spent
a lifetime helping others embody that very principle. His name,
Bishop Warner H. Brown Junior. He's here with us. He's
the founder and CEO of Impactful Teams LLC and an
executive leadership coach, as well as a retired bishop of
the United Methodist Church. Through decades of ministry and leadership
(20:00):
both in the US and globally, Yeah, he's helped people
rediscover their purpose, reignite their faith, and show up in
this world with integrity, with courage, and you guessed it, compassion.
Bishop Brown. It's such a blessing to have you on
the show. I hope you don't mind, but because you
(20:21):
and I go way back, is it okay if I
just call you Warner.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
That'll be fine. Raven, it's always good to talk to
Raven to talk show.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Maybe, well, we were so glad to have you. Now
we got one to let the audience know that he
has been with the Raven and National Broadcast Media Empire
for a while now. And so you can catch a
show and on our station, you're gonna hear more of
him because he's back and he is ready to, you know,
(20:50):
just move you and lift you up. And so you
want to pay attention to what he has to say,
not just today, but weekly on this show. Now, Warner,
before we die into leadership and your incredible journey, I
want to circle back to something that really stuck with
me from my conversation as you heard with Lonnie Ali.
(21:12):
You know, she spoke about compassion as a quiet form
of power, the kind that doesn't always roar, but heals,
uplifts and connects us. I love to hear your perspective
on that. How has compassion shown up in your life
as far as leadership.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Well, Raven, compassion is the center, the heart of connecting
with people, winning their trust, and finding ways to relate
to them in meaningful ways. It makes that matter and
make a difference, and it's a powerful thing. I celebrate
(21:52):
that witness and compassion that she brings forward just out
of the history and tradition of her late husband, the Champ,
the world Champ, Muhammad Ali.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Yeah, you know, leadership is so important. You know, we
need the right leadership in the world for sure, and
we need compassionate leadership, you know, but strong and powerful
leadership as well. You know, we want to be empathetic,
but at the same time we want to push people
(22:27):
lovingly forward so they can get through their breakthroughs and
lead them towards the transition that they want to make,
you know, the transformation that they want to make. You know,
that's important. But you know, compassion and being compassionate is
the key, especially nowadays, because you know times are just
(22:48):
they're crazy.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Just going to keep it real, They're going to keep
it real. No. The Late Night Angelou said it, well,
people don't care how much you know until they know
how much you care.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
One of my favorite quotes.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Absolutely, yes, yes, And I've witnessed that in the life
of the late Muhammad Ali. And I'm just honored to
be talking in anywhere close to the podcast that his
beautiful widow has shared because she's taken the lead from
(23:25):
his life and to keep that leadership going forward with
this whole compassion campaign. And I'm just so proud of her.
He touched my life in a special way. And you
don't know this, Raven, I hadn't shared this story with
you before, but when I was a student in college,
(23:45):
I met Muhammad Ali on the campus of the university
I was attending. And I don't mean just I'm in
a big crowd waving to it. I mean we got
a chance to talk. I was walking to speaking engagement.
He was the featured speaker that the Student Government Association
had sponsored, and I was walking from my dorm with
(24:09):
one of the other students. I was a student resident
assistant at one of the dorms on the remote edge
of the campus, and we were walking the long way
across campus and across the major highway to get to
where he was speaking. And as we walked in the
driveway of one of the buildings on the edge of
the campus, this limo pulled up next to us. What
(24:32):
I found out later was that the driver wanted some
directions as to how to find the place where the
champ was supposed to speak. But as the two of
us walked towards this car, as it pulled past us,
the back door popped open and out popped Muhammad Ali.
I said to my friend, that's the champ. And then
(24:54):
Muhammad Ali said to the two of us, you better
get out of that street. Oh, I'm going to teach
you how to box.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Wow, that had to be amazing, an amazing moment. Thank
you for sharing that with us.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
We had a chuckle. And later in the event, I
was in a private reception with h and we got
a chance to chat about that and with some other
students in his heart of compassion that was often not
reflected in media, but his willness, his authenticness, was reflected
in that conversation and it touched me deeply.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Wow, I know it had to.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Now.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
I never had a chance to really speak to him.
He was always on my dream list for interviewing. But
my parents owned a chain of restaurants in Cleveland, Ohio,
and next to their restaurant was the Oh God, what
was the faith he he was in?
Speaker 3 (25:54):
I can't black Muslims.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Black Muslims.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
One of their bakeries, one of.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Their bakery, Yes, And so we would see him when
he whenever he was in town, come in and go
out there, and there was right next door. So that
was always exciting. I'd be like, I couldn't even work
because my mother would have us come in to restaurant
and help after school, and I'd be like, I want
to go next door. You know, Mohama a least, you know,
because they were like kind of sort of competitors even
though they you know, so it was it was always exciting.
(26:22):
And he, you know, whenever he showed up, he showed
up big, that's for sure. But let's get back to
this because another thing that you know, makes me think
about doing these challenging times is how are we going
to get through them with in this leadership? You know,
in leading the world. I guess I want to say
(26:44):
the right way, you know, because it's so it's so
frightening how easily leaders out here can also lead people
the wrong way, you know, Yes, and it's it's quite
easy to do because people, I feel, people are so
(27:05):
desperate you know, to learn and desperate to get out
of their situation, you know, And it's to me is
kind of frightening to.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
See that.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
People just they just want hope, you know what I'm saying.
And so I see so many leaders just kind of
take advantage of others. Being a leader, how do you
handle that, how do you cope with that? And how
do you mentor others to hold their leadership of value?
(27:40):
I think that's what I'm trying to say. You know,
it's important. It's not something to take lightly.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Well. Leadership in difficult times is challenging because difficult times
are frightening, and it requires three keys. I think First
of all is listening, listening deeply, and it's a listening
without judgment. That you hear people make their laments, cry
(28:09):
of their pains, tell their story, and listen to them
sincerely and without judgment, and then don't force them to
come to the conclusion or to the understanding you would
prefer they have. Listen to where they are, and you
then will have legitimacy and sharing a bit of yourself
(28:31):
with them and admitting the places where you have your
own doubts about what's all going on. But that's the
beginning place, the relationship that is grounded and listening so
you can have some healthy and honest conversation and coupling
that with faith that embodies hope, a hope that sees
(28:52):
a better day and the possibility of a better day,
the assurance of a better day, and finally a sincere
love for the community. Do your love the people, and
that's at the heart, and when you move with that,
you're in a position to connect with people, engage them
(29:17):
and witness them this hope you are bearing and remind
people that you must lead together. You can't take them somewhere.
They need to work together to move forward.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
I love that love that. One of the other things
Lannie Ali spoke about was walking beside someone who carried
the weight of the world. Of course she's talking about
her late husband while still lifting others. Now, that kind
of emotional labor doesn't just happen in celebrity life, as
(29:54):
you know, it happens in ministry too, So you know
how to faith readers care for others so deeply without
losing themselves in the process because they're listening to a
lot of different things, you know that, and they're having
to consume that.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Yeah, yeah, well reality is quiet as it kept. Faith
leaders struggle with their doubts and with the pain and
the weight of that burden also. But at the heart,
they must be clear about what they're calling is what
their purpose in the world is, and be clear in
(30:36):
their mindset that they are a child of God, and
all the people that they're reaching out to serve our
child to God, and God hasn't brought he of us,
this Father and just leave us abandoned us with the
assurance that God is with us. We must live out
our purpose, but do it in a spirit of love.
(31:00):
It is tempting to sometimes when you're in the middle
of the those difficult situations, you say, I don't know
what to do. I don't know what I'm doing. I
may be tempted to fake it so people think I'm smart,
but no, that's the wrong thing to do. Yeah, be
listening for way God has gotten you. Listening to the
people as they tell you what is on their hearts,
(31:23):
what their needs are. Take that seriously and trust God
to show you the way forward. And then you can
lead authentically and show up as your best self in
those situations and make your mistakes apologize sincerely. Let folks
show you the way forward. And when you unite with
(31:44):
people standing on each other's shoulders, standing on the shoulders
the people that came before you, moving forward together, lifting
one another up. When one stumbles and falls, the next
one grabs them and picks up. Come up and keep
on walking.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Go ahead, go ahead, Yeah, Yeah, I'm a feeling like
I'm back in church now for sure.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Well there you go.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
You know.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
You talked about love, and you talked about trust, and
you talked about showing up. Has a love gone in humanity? Nowadays?
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Love hasn't gone anywhere. People are afraid, and when people get afraid,
it's not uncommon for them to use one of the
classic reactions. And when people are afraid. There's a tendency
to either fight or flight, to run, or or to
(32:50):
just freeze. And when that happens, we're afraid of love
because we're afraid of being hurt and this point and betrayed.
But the strength is finding the power to recognize that
the person we're dealing with is also afraid since.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
We have the same yeah, the same fears, you know.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Or we can't love them to death, we can at
least show them human kindness.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Yeah, yeah, I want to see more human kindnessness. I
want to see more love. I want to see more
compassion for others, you know, for those in Ukraine, for
those in different parts of the country, for those that
may not look like us. You know, I've never in
my life. I'm in my seventies now, i'll be seventy
(33:46):
four and in a few days, and I've never made
my life, thank you at up to this point, ever
felt so uncomfortable when I'm leaving my house, when I'm
going to a restaurant. You know, I don't I almost
feel you know, when I pass people, I don't see
(34:07):
that same glow in their eyes, you know what I'm saying,
the same smile. You know, we used to be you
could pass people and they didn't have to say anything,
but you could just kind of smiled at each other,
you know, and you could see the love, the warmth
in their eyes. And I don't see that as much anymore.
(34:29):
It really bothers me. It's just like in the past
few years, I would say, since we came out of
maybe the COVID. I don't know if that's changed it
or just you know, just all the stuff that's going on.
But I don't know.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Well, COVID has been a tremendous impact. It was one
hundred year phenomena. It changed the world, as did the
first time the world experienced COVID changed the world and
we are still in recovery from that experience, and many
patterns have changed. The way we do work, the way
(35:06):
we relate to people has changed dramatically.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
It's almost it's almost like we were all in the
same era and time and in the same world, but
when we came out of that, everything was totally different.
But we could see the transition of things changing. During
the time we were you know, shut in and I
say the words shut in, but we needed to be
(35:30):
shut in, I feel, because to protect us. But that's
another show we could go all. I'm giving us back
on track here. I'm sorry that I didn't mean to
go so deep on that, but I can feel my audience,
many in the audience just feeling quite the same way.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
You know.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Because we are humans. We were raised up to love, right,
we were raised up to become passionate. We were to
care for others, especially others that had less than us.
You know.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
But we're on a future show. You'll have to let
me tell you about the book that I'm about to
release that really touches on that. So we'll talk about
that time.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
And I'll go ahead and say that right now, talk
about your book right now.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Oh okay, Well, it's coming out soon. It's not out
there yet, but it's very close. And the title of
it is Rainbow Man and Rainbow Man. It's a short
novel and it is an illustrated novel, so it's addressed
to all agents. But it's really talking about how human
(36:43):
kindness is at the heart of who we're called to be,
how we're called to live with each other, and how
it shapes us. So and there's some things that invite
people to get into conversations, and some materials to study
groups and courage and work focusing at churches, but not
(37:04):
just churches, book clubs and others, to start a series
of conversations about how would that impact us? How do
we feel about that? I love that doesn't give us
the courage to begin showing human kindness to people around us.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
And the good thing about nowadays, you know, distance transportation,
things like that have nothing to do with you starting
a book club or starting trying you know that communication.
Because one great thing is more people know. That came
out of COVID was the virtual tools and software and
(37:43):
things that we've had for a long time. But people
wasn't open to it then Now they are. And the
reason I bring that up for all of you that listening,
if you have best friends and family out out of state,
out of country, you can all come to get ye
other virtually and have those conversations and just be respectful
(38:05):
of each other. And the fact that different people have
different thoughts, different things, and it's just to like Bishop
Brown is talking about, just you know, it's just to
start the communication because sooner or later for us all
to come together, we have to start it. Let me
ask you this, you've goided communities through everything from natural
(38:27):
disasters in Oakland, I mean some of everything, to major
global transitions in the church. What guiding principles have helped
you lead with resilience and keep hope alive is Jesse
Jackson says in the Hearts of Others.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
I think at the heart of it is the principle
that Jesus taught and demonstrated, and that is love. The people,
love the.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
People back to love again.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Yes, love is at the heart of it. It's all
about love. What's the song was? What's love got to
do with it? A lot? Everything is about love so
much so that often even with people we love that
we get angry and frustrated, we have differences of opinion,
(39:25):
but that can't transform the love, can't drive the love out. Instead,
like Jesus modeled, we look at people that do the
worse to us and recognize that it's often because of
their fears of their self issues that they're insecure within
themselves and all kinds of things they act out, and
(39:47):
Jesus said, Father, forgive them. They don't know what they're doing,
and often we have to create space to recognize. Sometimes
we do and say stuff and we don't know what
we're doing, and we do harm, but being in a
place where we make it our business to do kindness
instead of harm and have conversation that is grounded in listening.
(40:12):
It's not reacting.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Yeah, listening and not just reacting.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
I feel now You've been a major figure also in
the United Methodist Church during the seasons of social and
theological change. From your view, how is a church called
to lead in today's times or lead period, especially in
(40:38):
areas like racial justice, poverty, and inclusivetivity.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
Well, the church has always been called to be a
voice for justice and a place of refuge. But often
we struggle during those times of transition because they call
for us to adapt, adapt from what we perhaps have
done before, from what we've known before, for what we
(41:05):
believe true before, to discover that that doesn't work anymore,
that we now have learned more and some of what
we thought was true is wrong, and we have to
be able to adapt, to learn the new context we're
living in, and to truly understand the people we're relating
(41:25):
to so that we can see them as human beings
worthy of our love and consideration, and we can present
ourselves to them as human beings. Because we're no longer
afraid of them.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Yeah, I'm wondering, after decades of ministry, what's your message,
your core message to today's young leaders, and how can
they sustain their faith and their sense of calling as
well as their personal will being in a in the
world that demands so much, so much.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
Oh, I love that it is important that we recognize
everyone of us we have a purpose in this world.
We come into this world with a purpose, and it's
important we discover that purpose for ourselves. And that purpose
(42:25):
is for good, not for evil. And so don't be
distracted and that takes you away from that. Discover your
purpose because the world will lose something if your gift
is not shared. And so recognizing that you have reason
(42:47):
to hope. Don't look at what you don't have and
what you think you can't do. You have amazing possibilities
that you have reason to hope. Yeah, because the creator
of all things believes in you, you must believe in yourself.
And we must do it in community, because none of
(43:09):
us can do it alone. And we can't do it
oh by ourselves. We none of us are the only
one who can do it. We have a unique role
to play, but it is done in community with people,
and in community with people that you love and care about,
(43:29):
not a community of people that you see as someone
to exploit or use.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
Wow, that's powerful.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Well, listen, I wish we had much time, but you
heard my beeper going off. Got go, gotta go, gotta go.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
Bless you now, thank you for this time. Oh and yes, well,
I just.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Want to let all the listeners know that, you know,
we have a series. We will be doing a three
part series on you know, there's a coach for that TV.
It's for coaches and mentors that we want to bring
on part of the Inside Business TV network, and we're
going to be really diving deep and featuring Bishop Warner Brown,
(44:14):
you know, and we're going to talk a lot more
about what's needed in this world as far as leadership.
But we'll also find out more about his book. Maybe
it'll be out that time, and it's different programs because
I know a lot of you are going to want
so much more. But I just want to say thank
you for all this.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I don't know when
you're going to air this, And I'll leave you with
these website addresses. They aren't up yet but they will
be up soon and one is Rainbowman thebook dot com.
If you want more information about the book and the study,
and if you want to reach out to me, the
(44:55):
website to reach me in the near future will be
Bishop Warner dot and.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
You can find him on social media to LinkedIn.
Speaker 3 (45:04):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Yeah, And I just want to say before we go,
Warner or Bishop Warner Brown, that your voice is exactly
exactly what we needed today and perfect following the amazing
Lanni Ali, because you're deep rooted and you know, filled
with love. I love that message. You know, it just
(45:28):
kept coming up, you know, and we need to be
reminded of that. I love the tip of starting conversations today.
And you and I talked about you know, you don't
have to even go leave the comforts of your home.
Let's just start those conversations and those tough conversations, but
have love and respect and trust. And and I love
(45:48):
the fact that you said we got to show up
and be compassionate. You've reminded us that compassion isn't just
a feeling. It's a force that can transform lives and
transfer communities and even institutions. So thank you again for
being on I look for spotlighting you on those three
(46:08):
interview series. It's going to be so great because we'll
be able to go dive deep and the listeners will
get so much more. Bishop Warner Brown, y'all. And that
concludes today's episode of Amazing Women and Men of Power,
Legends and icons yesterday, today, and tomorrow. We'll see you
(46:29):
next time.
Speaker 3 (46:29):
Bye bye, bye bye
Welcome to amazing women and men of power, legends and
icons from yesterday, today, and tomorrow. I'm Raven, the talk
show maiden, your host, and wow, are we excited to
share our guests with you today? For sure, because she's remarkable.
(00:30):
She stood beside Muhammad Ali through it all, not just
as his wife, but as a dedicated advocate leader enforced
for compassion. As the widow of legendary Muhammad Ali, she
has made it her mission to ensure his message of compassion,
justice and unity lives on not just a memory, oh no,
but in action. She's the co founder of the Muhammad
(00:52):
Ali Center, the visionary behind the groundbreaking Compassion Report, and
the host of the new podcasts Ali and Me. I
love that her mission isn't just about remembering Muhammad Ali,
oh No, It's about carrying forward his extraordinary legacy to
inspire real change in the world today and now, without
(01:14):
further ado help me welcome. In fact, if you're standing,
sit down, and if you sit and stand up, because
the lady is here, Lannie Owen yi Fani is an
honor to be with you today. How you doing.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I'm great, Braven, thank you for having me today.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Oh my goodness. I was telling one of your pr
people that I wore blessed shirt because that's how I
feel about interviewing you today.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Very blessed. Oh thank you, thank you. I'm blessed to
be here.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
As you know, you're a husband, not only as the
greatest in the ring, but also one of the most
powerful voices for compassion, justin and unity. What do you
think was the biggest driving force behind his own wavering
dedication to humanitarian.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Muhammad? It was just who he was. It was it
was the fiber from which he was made. Okay. I've
known him since I was six years old and he
was twenty two when I met him, and it was
there then, this is just who he was, and compassion
was at the core of who he was. Compassion for others.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Yeah, at the core. I love that. I love that.
So you said you met him when you were six
years old, and this is the spirit, like you said,
at the core, that he's always had, even as a child.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I believe. So I always like to tell people that
I believe Muhammad had the hand of God put on
him before he even came here, right, because it was
he had a heart of gold, and that's you know
why people loved him so much because they knew that
he loved them without wanting anything in return. Anybody who
(03:02):
met him, he was interested in who they were, you know,
and he had that ability to touch humanity, the humanity
in each one of us, no matter how deeply it
might be buried, right, no matter what baggage we were
carrying with us, he didn't care. You could drop it
right there. He was concerned about you. He was interested
in you.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I love that and I actually really what stood out
when you were talking was when you said, without expecting
anything in return, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Important, right, never, never, never wanted anything in return for
what he did for people. He didn't keep score, you know,
he didn't. He didn't have a book, a tallly of
who he helped. He couldn't tell you how many people
he helped or what he did for them. He just
whf he saw someone in need, he felt that it
was his duty to assist. And you know that's something
(03:56):
he taught us, taught me and the kids, that we
should be in a race every day to do good,
to do acts of kindness every day. And that's what
this Compassion for Report is about, is about flexing that
compassion muscle daily where it becomes such a habit, such
an integral part of who we are, we do it
without even thinking.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
M mm hmm. The Compassion Report is so so so needed.
And I know you started this a while back. Did
you ever think it was going to really be as
needed as it is now? Ronnie?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
You know, it's funny about how things happened with Muhammad.
I mean, this is part of his legacy, a very
important part. When we hadn't discovered a friend of mine, Farrapanda,
who is the first Muhammad Ali Center Global Peace Laureate,
who's a former diplomat with the State Department, who is
an expert on radicalization of individuals, She and I were
(04:55):
thinking about this, and even though we thought about it then,
it was obvious there had been a decline and compassion
in the nation and it was one of the parts
of Muhammad's legacy that we had not really focused on
and highlighted and felt maybe it might be time, but
never did we ever expect it to be so needed
(05:17):
as it is at this moment in time.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
I took a look at, you know, some of the
information on the website, and that's the first thing that
came to me. Learning. I was like, oh my god,
is this ever so needed? Yea, yeah, it breaks my
heart that people do not have the compassion. We're all
humans and that's a huge missing piece.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
It is. We have devolved, you know over the last
five years, and the report found that sixty one percent
of people in America feel that compassion has been on
the decline in the last five years. However, I should
say this as well, there has been a four thousand
percent increase in the number of people who have been
(05:57):
looking for content on compassion online. So they realize it,
but they're still searching to find it. So that's important.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, that's very very important.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Yes, it gives me hope that it's something they want us.
They want us to bridge the divide, right, they want
us to work together, they want us to find common ground.
You know, there used to be a thing where people
called each other neighbors, and what did they mean being
a neighbor? You know, you cared about that person. The
report sort of delves into that, you know, about how
(06:32):
we treat It's called the five layers of compassion, where
you start with yourself, right, it starts with self compassion.
You've got to have compassion for yourself, and if you don't,
you can't give it. So it's about self care, taking
care of yourself. And I will say that women gen
Z and millennials have the hardest time practicing that self compassion. Women,
(06:55):
it's always we're caregivers. We're more interested in our friends
and family than we are about taking care of ourselves.
That's just a given. But there's also a feeling of unworthiness,
of feeling guilt of practicing that self compassion. But like,
I want to stress that too, because if you don't
have it, you can't give it. It all starts within exactly,
(07:17):
it absolutely does.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I wonder if you've did the report find anything, any
statistics you can share as far as like age. You know,
people at the age they are like the gen X
and the boom. I'm a boomer, you know, I'm in
my seventies and and I feel like back in the
day there was more compassion. I'm just curious, what did
you report touch on that at all?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
It didn't. It didn't go you know, like what used
to be, but it did. The study did include I
think it was five thousand, four hundred and seventeen people.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Okay, respond to all.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
The ages were eighteen to seventy two, So it covered generations, right,
it covered generations of people, and of course it was
across twelve the pilot cities. There was twelve diverse pilot
cities that were included across the country. So you know,
we got to I think we got a good mix
of people. But it did not measure. That was one statistic.
(08:22):
We did not say, you know, how do you feel
compassion was twenty years ago, although there was a stat
in there that said the compassion has declined over the
last five years, which everybody knows and fields. But twenty
years ago we would never found our thought of finding
(08:42):
ourselves in this era, right, I mean we were able
to disagree politically, and we may have even had different
views on social aspects of our lives or of our
community or of the nation policies. I not have always
agreed on policy, but as far as compassion, having feelings
(09:06):
of well being for others, for ourselves and for others,
that's definitely changed.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Mm hm that too. It really breaks my heart.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Right, And that's what we're raising our grandchildren in this
environment I.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Was just going to bring up and makes me think
of my grandchildren, right, what are they going to be
living through you know.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Exactly exactly the hate, the hateful rhetoric and the toxic
polarization has pushed it into corners and groups and you know,
to us versus them mentality. And I have to say,
and as most people know, COVID didn't help any of that,
because that was about isolation and staying away from people
(09:49):
and not interacting with people and not having that human
contact which needs so important. That's right, we do need
each other.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Yeah, just real quickly for I just wanted to tell
the audience you know that compassion isn't just the word,
it's a movement. And that's what you guys got going
on now, a movement. And if today's conversation with Lonnie
Ali isn't a blessing to you, and that is inspiring you.
(10:17):
If it is, you're gonna love Lonnie new podcast, Ali
and me. I wanted to segue into that because I'm
excited about that. I've got to ask you, with so
much on your plate, how did you come up with podcasts?
I can tell you a natural talker. Now, well, look
(10:38):
from one talk show into a new talk show.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Maiden, Oh no, not hardly have enough work. But let
me say this just to button up the Compassion Report
because there's a lot of information in that report. I'd
love for your listeners to go to aliindex dot org.
Okaynlad download the report, read it. Please read it, and
at the end there's an action item. We want you
(11:02):
to sign the Compassion Pledge because this is a personal
commitment on your part to practice compassion daily, just like
Muhammad did. He said, you said, tell me and the kids,
we need to be at a race every day to
do good every day with acts of kindness. Muhammad was
all about acts of kindness and like I said, once
you put that into your life, start doing it, it
(11:25):
becomes not just a habit, it becomes part of who
you are. So I just wanted to add that. Now.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Thank you for adding that, and we'll make sure we
have the links and everything that we put out. I
appreciate you and now definitely going to bring that up.
But why not bring it up now for sure, because
you know we want them to not just look at
it but actively engage in it.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Right right exactly, we can.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Read stuff all day, listening to stuff all day, but
until we engage in some way, whether it's sharing it,
whether whatever we're doing that's how we engage, and that's
how we remember and really make this a strong movement.
So thank you again for that.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
You know, let me add this too. I dare your
readers to report by to the ALI Center how they
feel once they start doing this. Okay, I would love
to have their input, because people, it's gonna make you
feel better about you, your outlook on life when you
(12:23):
help people, and you know, doing these acts of kindness,
you're going to think about that at the end of
the day. You know, it's gonna make you feel good.
So it's if there's benefit for you as well as
the person you're being kind to, right, So I would
love to hear from them.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Okay, well we're gonna have to push that for sure. Absolutely,
but another way of being engaged one of the best ways.
And you know, as a creator myself, I get that
because you want to know, Okay, is this moving in
the right direction? Is there a missing piece or you
know what really popped out and made a difference for you?
What was your transformation from reading the report right right?
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Absolutely was about the podcast Allie and Me, which I'm
so proud of. It's on audible you can download it now.
All eight episodes, and I'm joined with my co host
John Ramsay, who was a longtime friend of Muhammad's and
the current still a friend of mine. He formed a
radio host, so he had really good experience in this.
(13:23):
But it was a seven year passion project, if I
may say, another attempt of mine to feel the void
of Muhammed's passing, which I felt so intensely, as did John,
who's a fellow Lowivillion. When Muhammad passed, there was just
(13:44):
his voice needed to be heard, and you know, just
the foot like I talk about the footprint that he left,
and I wanted to find out how he inspired other people,
you know, what was the because there was a little
bit of Ali and all of us, right, That's what
we wanted to discover, and we were. We were fortunate
enough to have a wide range of people who were
(14:07):
guested on this podcast. Some people Muhammed knew well who
were friends, and some people who had never met it
but were inspired by his example. And uh, I learned
a lot, learned a lot in this podcast, and I
think people who listen will be inspired. I just came
back from New York from a couple of audible events
promoting the podcast and was happy to learn that it
(14:30):
has a five out of five radio Audible. Yeah, five
five stars out of five stars, so that's why. But
we also found out that people are marking the podcast,
coming back and listening to sections of it because they
need that daily inspiration, and they're listening to the podcast
(14:52):
in full multiple times. And what is so great about
this is not only that we have this. You know,
it's one thing to rea eat something like you said,
but to actually have the voices of people to me
is so powerful. And what makes it even more powerful
is that we have audio of Mohammed on this podcast
(15:17):
that has never been heard before, so you yes, you
will hear Mohammad's voice as well, which sort of helps
with that feeling of people used to ask me and
continue to ask me, especially during some difficult issues that
you've had in this nation in the last five or
six years, incidents that have occurred. You know, what would
(15:38):
Mohammad say? And we get that all the time. And
you've seen Muhammad everywhere, right, You're still see in the
news all over the place, and people miss his voice
and his wisdom and his inspiration and his guidance. You know,
he's like that shining star on a hill and beacon
of light that you can follow, and this hearing his
(15:58):
voice on this podcast, it's well, it made me emotional,
of course, but it's just so powerful. It just makes
it that much better. So I invite I invite your listeners.
I mean when we talk about the guests that we had,
we had people that I had never dreamed of interviewing,
like Black Thought Killer, Mike, Mike Tyson, people that I
(16:24):
know too, Will Smith, Bob Costas, Billy Crystal, Brian Stevenson,
Uh Layla Mohammed's daughter of course, Rosie Perez, Alison your
extremely I was just with her in New York. Wonderful woman.
Uh Governor Kasik of Ohio. You know, there's just so
(16:47):
many that we interviewed that we interviewed and athletes as well.
But hopefully we'll have a second season and we get
to bring you more joy, more instation.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I'm sure you're going to have season after season and two.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
You get of doing I can't get enough more Ali
and me.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
I love that, And just real quickie, because I think
we got about two more minutes left. I do want
to share with you because you were talking about how
he has inspired so many people in different ways. I know,
for me from feeling like Casper, you know, the friendly
goals and never getting recognized, acknowledged, just feeling dismissed and overlooked.
One thing, there's a couple of things I took away
(17:27):
from him. One is when he said I am the
greatest you know that. I think all of us picked
a piece of that up and we because I hear
many many famous speakers say, now you know, it's just
like Muhammad Ali said, you make the decision that you're
the greatest you know and really walk into that. Another
thing real quickly is I can't remember the quote exactly, Lonnie,
(17:49):
but it was something like somebody asked him what was
more important the skill of the will? And he said
the skill is Both are important, but the will is
more more important than the skill. And that sticks with
me all the time. You know, when I'm wondering why
things aren't going right in business, always well, Raven, test
your why, what's your why? What's the wheel? How hungry,
(18:12):
as Les Brown says, are you to get it? You know,
just calmly going for it. It's the difference. So I
wanted to share that my little piece of my voice
of inspiration.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Well, that's the allie in you we all take. You know,
Mohammed was very layered and very faceted. Welcome and everybody
takes their peace, yeah, you.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Know, yeah, well Lanni, I know my time is going on.
I do want to respect your time and your teen's time.
This has been such an honor. Thank you so much,
amazing women and men of power.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Thank you so much, Raven, I really appreciate it, and
I hope we'll be here.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Welcome back a little time, Okay, thank you all right,
bye bye, Lani yay, welcome back to amazing women and
men of power. Wow, what a powerful conversation we just
had with Lani Ali, the devoted wife and now widow
of the late great Muhammad Ali. You know, guys, her
(19:13):
words about compassion, about leading with her even when life
throws its biggest punches, you know those curveballs. When she
talked about that, it truly was so moving. Well, that
same spirit, guess what of compassion carries forward right now
with our next guest, someone who would not only believes
(19:36):
in the power of love to heal, but has spent
a lifetime helping others embody that very principle. His name,
Bishop Warner H. Brown Junior. He's here with us. He's
the founder and CEO of Impactful Teams LLC and an
executive leadership coach, as well as a retired bishop of
the United Methodist Church. Through decades of ministry and leadership
(20:00):
both in the US and globally, Yeah, he's helped people
rediscover their purpose, reignite their faith, and show up in
this world with integrity, with courage, and you guessed it, compassion.
Bishop Brown. It's such a blessing to have you on
the show. I hope you don't mind, but because you
(20:21):
and I go way back, is it okay if I
just call you Warner.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
That'll be fine. Raven, it's always good to talk to
Raven to talk show.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Maybe, well, we were so glad to have you. Now
we got one to let the audience know that he
has been with the Raven and National Broadcast Media Empire
for a while now. And so you can catch a
show and on our station, you're gonna hear more of
him because he's back and he is ready to, you know,
(20:50):
just move you and lift you up. And so you
want to pay attention to what he has to say,
not just today, but weekly on this show. Now, Warner,
before we die into leadership and your incredible journey, I
want to circle back to something that really stuck with
me from my conversation as you heard with Lonnie Ali.
(21:12):
You know, she spoke about compassion as a quiet form
of power, the kind that doesn't always roar, but heals,
uplifts and connects us. I love to hear your perspective
on that. How has compassion shown up in your life
as far as leadership.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Well, Raven, compassion is the center, the heart of connecting
with people, winning their trust, and finding ways to relate
to them in meaningful ways. It makes that matter and
make a difference, and it's a powerful thing. I celebrate
(21:52):
that witness and compassion that she brings forward just out
of the history and tradition of her late husband, the Champ,
the world Champ, Muhammad Ali.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Yeah, you know, leadership is so important. You know, we
need the right leadership in the world for sure, and
we need compassionate leadership, you know, but strong and powerful
leadership as well. You know, we want to be empathetic,
but at the same time we want to push people
(22:27):
lovingly forward so they can get through their breakthroughs and
lead them towards the transition that they want to make,
you know, the transformation that they want to make. You know,
that's important. But you know, compassion and being compassionate is
the key, especially nowadays, because you know times are just
(22:48):
they're crazy.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Just going to keep it real, They're going to keep
it real. No. The Late Night Angelou said it, well,
people don't care how much you know until they know
how much you care.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
One of my favorite quotes.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Absolutely, yes, yes, And I've witnessed that in the life
of the late Muhammad Ali. And I'm just honored to
be talking in anywhere close to the podcast that his
beautiful widow has shared because she's taken the lead from
(23:25):
his life and to keep that leadership going forward with
this whole compassion campaign. And I'm just so proud of her.
He touched my life in a special way. And you
don't know this, Raven, I hadn't shared this story with
you before, but when I was a student in college,
(23:45):
I met Muhammad Ali on the campus of the university
I was attending. And I don't mean just I'm in
a big crowd waving to it. I mean we got
a chance to talk. I was walking to speaking engagement.
He was the featured speaker that the Student Government Association
had sponsored, and I was walking from my dorm with
(24:09):
one of the other students. I was a student resident
assistant at one of the dorms on the remote edge
of the campus, and we were walking the long way
across campus and across the major highway to get to
where he was speaking. And as we walked in the
driveway of one of the buildings on the edge of
the campus, this limo pulled up next to us. What
(24:32):
I found out later was that the driver wanted some
directions as to how to find the place where the
champ was supposed to speak. But as the two of
us walked towards this car, as it pulled past us,
the back door popped open and out popped Muhammad Ali.
I said to my friend, that's the champ. And then
(24:54):
Muhammad Ali said to the two of us, you better
get out of that street. Oh, I'm going to teach
you how to box.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Wow, that had to be amazing, an amazing moment. Thank
you for sharing that with us.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
We had a chuckle. And later in the event, I
was in a private reception with h and we got
a chance to chat about that and with some other
students in his heart of compassion that was often not
reflected in media, but his willness, his authenticness, was reflected
in that conversation and it touched me deeply.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Wow, I know it had to.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Now.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
I never had a chance to really speak to him.
He was always on my dream list for interviewing. But
my parents owned a chain of restaurants in Cleveland, Ohio,
and next to their restaurant was the Oh God, what
was the faith he he was in?
Speaker 3 (25:54):
I can't black Muslims.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Black Muslims.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
One of their bakeries, one of.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Their bakery, Yes, And so we would see him when
he whenever he was in town, come in and go
out there, and there was right next door. So that
was always exciting. I'd be like, I couldn't even work
because my mother would have us come in to restaurant
and help after school, and I'd be like, I want
to go next door. You know, Mohama a least, you know,
because they were like kind of sort of competitors even
though they you know, so it was it was always exciting.
(26:22):
And he, you know, whenever he showed up, he showed
up big, that's for sure. But let's get back to
this because another thing that you know, makes me think
about doing these challenging times is how are we going
to get through them with in this leadership? You know,
in leading the world. I guess I want to say
(26:44):
the right way, you know, because it's so it's so
frightening how easily leaders out here can also lead people
the wrong way, you know, Yes, and it's it's quite
easy to do because people, I feel, people are so
(27:05):
desperate you know, to learn and desperate to get out
of their situation, you know, And it's to me is
kind of frightening to.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
See that.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
People just they just want hope, you know what I'm saying.
And so I see so many leaders just kind of
take advantage of others. Being a leader, how do you
handle that, how do you cope with that? And how
do you mentor others to hold their leadership of value?
(27:40):
I think that's what I'm trying to say. You know,
it's important. It's not something to take lightly.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Well. Leadership in difficult times is challenging because difficult times
are frightening, and it requires three keys. I think First
of all is listening, listening deeply, and it's a listening
without judgment. That you hear people make their laments, cry
(28:09):
of their pains, tell their story, and listen to them
sincerely and without judgment, and then don't force them to
come to the conclusion or to the understanding you would
prefer they have. Listen to where they are, and you
then will have legitimacy and sharing a bit of yourself
(28:31):
with them and admitting the places where you have your
own doubts about what's all going on. But that's the
beginning place, the relationship that is grounded and listening so
you can have some healthy and honest conversation and coupling
that with faith that embodies hope, a hope that sees
(28:52):
a better day and the possibility of a better day,
the assurance of a better day, and finally a sincere
love for the community. Do your love the people, and
that's at the heart, and when you move with that,
you're in a position to connect with people, engage them
(29:17):
and witness them this hope you are bearing and remind
people that you must lead together. You can't take them somewhere.
They need to work together to move forward.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
I love that love that. One of the other things
Lannie Ali spoke about was walking beside someone who carried
the weight of the world. Of course she's talking about
her late husband while still lifting others. Now, that kind
of emotional labor doesn't just happen in celebrity life, as
(29:54):
you know, it happens in ministry too, So you know
how to faith readers care for others so deeply without
losing themselves in the process because they're listening to a
lot of different things, you know that, and they're having
to consume that.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Yeah, yeah, well reality is quiet as it kept. Faith
leaders struggle with their doubts and with the pain and
the weight of that burden also. But at the heart,
they must be clear about what they're calling is what
their purpose in the world is, and be clear in
(30:36):
their mindset that they are a child of God, and
all the people that they're reaching out to serve our
child to God, and God hasn't brought he of us,
this Father and just leave us abandoned us with the
assurance that God is with us. We must live out
our purpose, but do it in a spirit of love.
(31:00):
It is tempting to sometimes when you're in the middle
of the those difficult situations, you say, I don't know
what to do. I don't know what I'm doing. I
may be tempted to fake it so people think I'm smart,
but no, that's the wrong thing to do. Yeah, be
listening for way God has gotten you. Listening to the
people as they tell you what is on their hearts,
(31:23):
what their needs are. Take that seriously and trust God
to show you the way forward. And then you can
lead authentically and show up as your best self in
those situations and make your mistakes apologize sincerely. Let folks
show you the way forward. And when you unite with
(31:44):
people standing on each other's shoulders, standing on the shoulders
the people that came before you, moving forward together, lifting
one another up. When one stumbles and falls, the next
one grabs them and picks up. Come up and keep
on walking.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Go ahead, go ahead, Yeah, Yeah, I'm a feeling like
I'm back in church now for sure.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Well there you go.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
You know.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
You talked about love, and you talked about trust, and
you talked about showing up. Has a love gone in humanity? Nowadays?
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Love hasn't gone anywhere. People are afraid, and when people get afraid,
it's not uncommon for them to use one of the
classic reactions. And when people are afraid. There's a tendency
to either fight or flight, to run, or or to
(32:50):
just freeze. And when that happens, we're afraid of love
because we're afraid of being hurt and this point and betrayed.
But the strength is finding the power to recognize that
the person we're dealing with is also afraid since.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
We have the same yeah, the same fears, you know.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Or we can't love them to death, we can at
least show them human kindness.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Yeah, yeah, I want to see more human kindnessness. I
want to see more love. I want to see more
compassion for others, you know, for those in Ukraine, for
those in different parts of the country, for those that
may not look like us. You know, I've never in
my life. I'm in my seventies now, i'll be seventy
(33:46):
four and in a few days, and I've never made
my life, thank you at up to this point, ever
felt so uncomfortable when I'm leaving my house, when I'm
going to a restaurant. You know, I don't I almost
feel you know, when I pass people, I don't see
(34:07):
that same glow in their eyes, you know what I'm saying,
the same smile. You know, we used to be you
could pass people and they didn't have to say anything,
but you could just kind of smiled at each other,
you know, and you could see the love, the warmth
in their eyes. And I don't see that as much anymore.
(34:29):
It really bothers me. It's just like in the past
few years, I would say, since we came out of
maybe the COVID. I don't know if that's changed it
or just you know, just all the stuff that's going on.
But I don't know.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Well, COVID has been a tremendous impact. It was one
hundred year phenomena. It changed the world, as did the
first time the world experienced COVID changed the world and
we are still in recovery from that experience, and many
patterns have changed. The way we do work, the way
(35:06):
we relate to people has changed dramatically.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
It's almost it's almost like we were all in the
same era and time and in the same world, but
when we came out of that, everything was totally different.
But we could see the transition of things changing. During
the time we were you know, shut in and I
say the words shut in, but we needed to be
(35:30):
shut in, I feel, because to protect us. But that's
another show we could go all. I'm giving us back
on track here. I'm sorry that I didn't mean to
go so deep on that, but I can feel my audience,
many in the audience just feeling quite the same way.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
You know.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Because we are humans. We were raised up to love, right,
we were raised up to become passionate. We were to
care for others, especially others that had less than us.
You know.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
But we're on a future show. You'll have to let
me tell you about the book that I'm about to
release that really touches on that. So we'll talk about
that time.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
And I'll go ahead and say that right now, talk
about your book right now.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Oh okay, Well, it's coming out soon. It's not out
there yet, but it's very close. And the title of
it is Rainbow Man and Rainbow Man. It's a short
novel and it is an illustrated novel, so it's addressed
to all agents. But it's really talking about how human
(36:43):
kindness is at the heart of who we're called to be,
how we're called to live with each other, and how
it shapes us. So and there's some things that invite
people to get into conversations, and some materials to study
groups and courage and work focusing at churches, but not
(37:04):
just churches, book clubs and others, to start a series
of conversations about how would that impact us? How do
we feel about that? I love that doesn't give us
the courage to begin showing human kindness to people around us.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
And the good thing about nowadays, you know, distance transportation,
things like that have nothing to do with you starting
a book club or starting trying you know that communication.
Because one great thing is more people know. That came
out of COVID was the virtual tools and software and
(37:43):
things that we've had for a long time. But people
wasn't open to it then Now they are. And the
reason I bring that up for all of you that listening,
if you have best friends and family out out of state,
out of country, you can all come to get ye
other virtually and have those conversations and just be respectful
(38:05):
of each other. And the fact that different people have
different thoughts, different things, and it's just to like Bishop
Brown is talking about, just you know, it's just to
start the communication because sooner or later for us all
to come together, we have to start it. Let me
ask you this, you've goided communities through everything from natural
(38:27):
disasters in Oakland, I mean some of everything, to major
global transitions in the church. What guiding principles have helped
you lead with resilience and keep hope alive is Jesse
Jackson says in the Hearts of Others.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
I think at the heart of it is the principle
that Jesus taught and demonstrated, and that is love. The people,
love the.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
People back to love again.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Yes, love is at the heart of it. It's all
about love. What's the song was? What's love got to
do with it? A lot? Everything is about love so
much so that often even with people we love that
we get angry and frustrated, we have differences of opinion,
(39:25):
but that can't transform the love, can't drive the love out. Instead,
like Jesus modeled, we look at people that do the
worse to us and recognize that it's often because of
their fears of their self issues that they're insecure within
themselves and all kinds of things they act out, and
(39:47):
Jesus said, Father, forgive them. They don't know what they're doing,
and often we have to create space to recognize. Sometimes
we do and say stuff and we don't know what
we're doing, and we do harm, but being in a
place where we make it our business to do kindness
instead of harm and have conversation that is grounded in listening.
(40:12):
It's not reacting.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Yeah, listening and not just reacting.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
I feel now You've been a major figure also in
the United Methodist Church during the seasons of social and
theological change. From your view, how is a church called
to lead in today's times or lead period, especially in
(40:38):
areas like racial justice, poverty, and inclusivetivity.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
Well, the church has always been called to be a
voice for justice and a place of refuge. But often
we struggle during those times of transition because they call
for us to adapt, adapt from what we perhaps have
done before, from what we've known before, for what we
(41:05):
believe true before, to discover that that doesn't work anymore,
that we now have learned more and some of what
we thought was true is wrong, and we have to
be able to adapt, to learn the new context we're
living in, and to truly understand the people we're relating
(41:25):
to so that we can see them as human beings
worthy of our love and consideration, and we can present
ourselves to them as human beings. Because we're no longer
afraid of them.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Yeah, I'm wondering, after decades of ministry, what's your message,
your core message to today's young leaders, and how can
they sustain their faith and their sense of calling as
well as their personal will being in a in the
world that demands so much, so much.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
Oh, I love that it is important that we recognize
everyone of us we have a purpose in this world.
We come into this world with a purpose, and it's
important we discover that purpose for ourselves. And that purpose
(42:25):
is for good, not for evil. And so don't be
distracted and that takes you away from that. Discover your
purpose because the world will lose something if your gift
is not shared. And so recognizing that you have reason
(42:47):
to hope. Don't look at what you don't have and
what you think you can't do. You have amazing possibilities
that you have reason to hope. Yeah, because the creator
of all things believes in you, you must believe in yourself.
And we must do it in community, because none of
(43:09):
us can do it alone. And we can't do it
oh by ourselves. We none of us are the only
one who can do it. We have a unique role
to play, but it is done in community with people,
and in community with people that you love and care about,
(43:29):
not a community of people that you see as someone
to exploit or use.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
Wow, that's powerful.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Well, listen, I wish we had much time, but you
heard my beeper going off. Got go, gotta go, gotta go.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
Bless you now, thank you for this time. Oh and yes, well,
I just.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Want to let all the listeners know that, you know,
we have a series. We will be doing a three
part series on you know, there's a coach for that TV.
It's for coaches and mentors that we want to bring
on part of the Inside Business TV network, and we're
going to be really diving deep and featuring Bishop Warner Brown,
(44:14):
you know, and we're going to talk a lot more
about what's needed in this world as far as leadership.
But we'll also find out more about his book. Maybe
it'll be out that time, and it's different programs because
I know a lot of you are going to want
so much more. But I just want to say thank
you for all this.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I don't know when
you're going to air this, And I'll leave you with
these website addresses. They aren't up yet but they will
be up soon and one is Rainbowman thebook dot com.
If you want more information about the book and the study,
and if you want to reach out to me, the
(44:55):
website to reach me in the near future will be
Bishop Warner dot and.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
You can find him on social media to LinkedIn.
Speaker 3 (45:04):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Yeah, And I just want to say before we go,
Warner or Bishop Warner Brown, that your voice is exactly
exactly what we needed today and perfect following the amazing
Lanni Ali, because you're deep rooted and you know, filled
with love. I love that message. You know, it just
(45:28):
kept coming up, you know, and we need to be
reminded of that. I love the tip of starting conversations today.
And you and I talked about you know, you don't
have to even go leave the comforts of your home.
Let's just start those conversations and those tough conversations, but
have love and respect and trust. And and I love
(45:48):
the fact that you said we got to show up
and be compassionate. You've reminded us that compassion isn't just
a feeling. It's a force that can transform lives and
transfer communities and even institutions. So thank you again for
being on I look for spotlighting you on those three
(46:08):
interview series. It's going to be so great because we'll
be able to go dive deep and the listeners will
get so much more. Bishop Warner Brown, y'all. And that
concludes today's episode of Amazing Women and Men of Power,
Legends and icons yesterday, today, and tomorrow. We'll see you
(46:29):
next time.
Speaker 3 (46:29):
Bye bye, bye bye
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