199: Conquest Tour 2015: Hopkins (Presented by Patreon.com/AnHonorablePod)

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
This is an Honorable Mention with JeffSchwartz and Shane Hagedorn, part of the
cran General Networking podcast. It's Tuesdayand you know what that means. Happy
too for Tuesday and welcome to anotherchapter of an honorable Mention. Esaire of
Honor Resurospective podcast covering the most successfulindependent wrestling promotion of this generation. I

(00:25):
am your host, Jeff Schwartz.I am delighted to be here and alongside
my co host, our expert analysts, the head of logistics, the all
elite wrestling content provider and operation specialist, Mayor of merchandise, Warrior of the
Way Back Machine, King of CageMatch, and Code of Honor author.
He is the Fred Astaire of Ringof Honor alumni Shane Hagedorn. What you

(00:50):
were dancing? Fred saw? Allright? Those of you that would like
to see Hagadorn dancing can do soover at patreon dot com. Backslash and
Honorable Pod and get that a Sand AP. Do you do? You
want to guess what was going inmy head? So it's the spanky song.

(01:14):
Yeah, Fired at the disco,Fired at the disco, Panic in
the taco bell, Fired in theTaco Bell. It's not Panic at the
Disco. Panic Disco is a band. Yes, yes, by the way,
I know you don't care. Buthappy new my Chemical Romance song day.
I did see that on Twitter,and I'm going to give that a

(01:38):
shot. See what that looks like. Um. The new Kendrick Lamar album
is also out today, and Iconversely will give that a listen because not
usually not my wheelhouse usually speaking,but I mean to me, Kendrick Lamar
is the one of the two bestof the modern era rappers. So him

(02:00):
in Meek Millamar documentary on a Flightone Day, super fascinating. I think
this guy has some of the mostunique life stories of anybody in hip hop,
and um, I think this albumin particular, he kind of explores

(02:22):
his life's journey and I think it'sgoing to really open some eyes up and
hopefully it makes people kind of stepback and start being a little bit more
inclusive of people that are not,you know, just the everyday average person.
So hopefully it'll do some good.This might have been it. I

(02:43):
don't know. I don't think thiswas it to find it, but I'm
pretty sure I watched a documentary abouthim. He's great. I mean,
he really is like a modern incarnationof so many great rappers from dre A
snow Too. I think there's evena little bit of like lyrically, some

(03:04):
easy style, um, hard hittingyou know, direct lyrics. There's some
M and M influence there. Imean he's great. He really is great.
And speaking of great, um,I might even do like a song
by song music review at some pointover at patreon dot com backslash an honorable

(03:25):
Podum. I don't know if youhave listened to the Batman podcast on Spotify
yet, the new one. Yeah, I don't know what the deal is,
but I have not. I wouldbe very curious to explore that and
maybe talk about it over at Patreonas well. Um, I'm like,

(03:47):
add it to my playlist on mySpotify while we're sitting here talking. I
haven't sitting there. I haven't givenit a glance. But Batman being Unburied,
Okay, going through a lot oflike new music. The new Fazzi
album if you like Metal is reallygreat. Did go listen to the Multiverse
of Madness soundtrack to see that soundtrackis so good? That score is a

(04:15):
phenomenal Danny killed it very very,very very very excited. My brother said
it was one of his favorite Marvelmovies and he's way into that whole world,
so it's very good. Trust hisjudgment there. I'm super excited.
I love the first one, soI got that on my list. And
there's a new Miley Cyrus live albumor sort of live album where she covers

(04:41):
where Is My Mind? And I'veheard the cover of it him. It's
fantastic. So a lot of goodnew music lately, but the only place
to really get new, fresh,hot content is Patreon dot com Backslash Honorable
Pod. The Wrestling Yea series isjust wrapping up a big flare steamboat kick

(05:04):
formats up every week. I've gotsome other ideas for new stuff, and
if you're unfamiliar with what we're coveringfor the week, you may have access
to that as well. So headwardPatreon dot com Backslash Honorable Pods. Sign
up gets the show's early ad freeon video and all sorts of other bonus.

(05:26):
What's good for the Goose is goodfor the gander. If you will,
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February, yep, crazy three anda half years. We were brought to

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(08:00):
and be worthy of an honorable mention. Well, this week I think we
mentioned it officially last week or lastepisode, I should say we were going
to be covering Night of Champions.No matter how many times I told hagg
when we were covering Night of Champions, he was help bent on covering today's

(08:20):
show, which I think we shoulddive into. It's worthy of an honorable
mention. It is April twenty fifth, twenty fifteen, and we are in
Hopkins, Minnesota at the Hopkins EisenhowerCommunity Center for Conquest to our twenty fifteen
Hopkins Bradley presented by Patreon dot ComBackslash an honorable pod. I just had

(08:45):
it in my head that that's whatwe were doing next, and so I
watched it and I was done withit before you informed me that I was
wrong completely and I was supposed tohave been watching Knight of Champions. So
next episode will be Night of Championsinstead. No, next episode of show
two hundred, it's Tokyo's Summit.Oh okay, so that's I also picked.

(09:07):
So then we'll get to the Nightof Champions. Listen as excited as
I am to rewatch Joe and Xavierfor the title when Joe made the ROH
BELTU the ROH World title in onenight, building a legacy that has now
lasted into its twentieth year. Ican wait because it will be worth it.

(09:31):
And this show actually was a pleasantsurprise for several reasons, especially considering
that the impetus for it and evenselecting the show was wanting to know why
the fuck the last match on thecage match listings went fifteen seconds? Like,
that's the entire reason this show isbeing what it was selected because I

(09:52):
wanted to know why the main eventwas fifteen seconds long. Now I understand,
and it's actually not a terrible ideanow, which led to a Twitter
thought for me on Thursday to twelve, and it's something we'll talk about when
we get to Jay Lethal later on. But I am hard pressed to find

(10:16):
a better top heel in the Sinclairera. Well you did think of one,
then, Dwell, I'll get tothat in a second, and then
Jay Lethal. As far as wrestlersgo, I would say Joe Cough,
Greg Gilland and the rest of SinclairBroadcasting would be the top heel, but

(10:37):
he can't really put them on.Well, Joe Cough put himself on TV,
who could forget let's get eff andhardcore goof. I don't know even
know what you're talking about things.Oh oh, one day we will watch
this and you will be on yourass laughing, maybe possibly having sold your
pants, because it is the worstthing I have ever seen, the most

(11:00):
insincere rallying cry of all time.And it was a Joe Coff reacting to
Bubba Ray Dudley all right entering ofhonor in twenty eighteen or whatever it was.
And yeah, so we're in Minnesota, Hopkins, Minnesota, the land

(11:22):
of ten Thousand Lakes, the originalhome of the Lakers. That's why they're
Los Angeles Lakers now. So we'rein Hopkins. Wouldn't be bothered to think
of a new name when they movedto a highly different climate. Look at
the Utah Jazz they were originally inNew Orleans. Yeah, yeah, and

(11:46):
they couldn't be the Utah Mormons,or the Utah Salt Lakes or the Utah
the Utah backles. Sure, Idon't know what that is, but we'll
go Apparently don't know the chemical formularesult. No, I was not a
good like whatever they call that periodictable table. Yeah, I was not

(12:09):
good at that. Shout out toJohn Shoop though, who was an awesome,
awesome science teacher, and that washis responsibility to try. And did
people sing a salt and pepper athim? No, but he did take
his science robe and put little liketassels on it, and then his wife

(12:31):
bedazzled Shoop on the back of hisjacket like Flair would have for his robes.
And he would strut and woo anddo the four horsemen thing and all
that. So he was awesome likehe is. He was probably one of
the best teachers I've ever had.And he is a tremendous, tremendous father,

(12:56):
so considering the challenges he's had asa parent, shout out to mister
Shop for being a true real OgH. Tons of respect to him. But
we have a dark match on thisshow and it features some interesting names you

(13:16):
may recognize from n XT or theindependent scene. We have Danny Adams and
Paco Gonzalez defeating Brandon Espinoza and KurtStallion. I don't know what Kurt Stallion's
NXT name was, but pretty mucheverybody here is aaw in Chicago Highland,

(13:43):
I think, No, that's Indiana, where no Chicago's like two states away
in Illinois. But I'm talking aboutaa WAIW, not aiw aa W.
We have we have all the vowelscovered in wrestling for A and W just

(14:07):
missing sometimes why or missing a companythat m yes that that hits all of
them in their abbreviation and they shouldall be in like a five state region
A I O U sometimes why yeahwrestling It would be great now I'm most
wrestling should be sometimes Why yeah?That shows over next week next episode.

(14:41):
Uh, make sure you call theFBI and help out Carnell and Kate until
we can solve that case and andwe're out later. Keep your chins up.
Uh yeah sometimes why wrestling? AndI love it? Um wow uh
cut. Commentary on this show isprovided by the great King of Old School

(15:05):
Steve Currido and Kevin Soaring and ScoringKelly and we opened up with a match
that just screams ring of honor.It is Aria Davari taking on Bobby Fish
of Red Dragon fame, and soimmediately, like I thought, as soon

(15:31):
as Ari Davari came through, Ithought to myself, when is wrestling going
to get away from religious or ethnicstereotypes? Because I'm really bothered by this
now watching this this individual match.Not knocking Bobby or Aria Davari, they're

(15:58):
too really talented performers, But whenis somebody of Middle Eastern descent just is
going to come out and be likea wrestler and not even acknowledge that they're,
oh, well, you know myfamily five generations agoes from the Middle
East. Do people not realize thatthe Devarres are from Minnesota and their father

(16:21):
owns a pizza shop. Well,I would have to put that in the
context of this is a ring ofhonor and it's not going to be sitting
here providing an edict on the characterbeing played by Hari Devaris, and that
would be more the presentation of himhimself as a wrestler that he is choosing

(16:41):
to do. Sure, and Iwould be my assumption. I've never met
the inga. I don't know himwhat all. That's just I look at
it as this is not a companyfor its dictating to the random person they're
using to fill space on the cardbecause it was probably cheap and he's a
local and he's local. Yeah,they're not dictating the character he's playing on
this show. This is yeah,and I took that and I took this

(17:07):
as much more this the version ofhis character he's playing here is not the
same as his brother when he wasdebuting, you know, fourteen, literally
eleven years earlier, damn near tothe day. Yeah, at Reborn stage
one in Saint paul Um. Youknow, it's not flying carpet ride like
that. It's I took this asmuch more of the like the what we're

(17:33):
right, what the hell are theirnames? Um? Yeah, yeah,
right? Is much more like thethe what are they called? The Punjabi
playboys sort of um, like characterthe Persian Prince or something like that.
And I don't know, I justI'm just not a big fan of like

(17:59):
playing up. I think background inwrestling. I would rather the in ring
work do the talking. I thinkit depends on the how, depends on
the how it's done, if it'snot, if it's you know, there's
a huge difference between positively embracing yourculture and your background and representing versus here's

(18:25):
Muhammad Hassan, you know, yeah, yeah he here here is what they
what do they call what do theycall? Huvey? And then when they
stuck them on lawnmowers, oh lujathe Luja Cools, the Mexicos, yes
versus you know that versus just youknow, I'm somebody of Mexican descent who

(18:51):
is wrestler, and I'm proud ofright here, my you know, family
heritage. Like, there's a hugedifference in presentations as far as the match
goes. I mean, the wrestlinghere is fine. Um I thought in
particular, I mean you see sortof an aggression from Bobby Fish that that

(19:12):
is good, but he also mixesin some of his typical um how could
I phrase it, like his sarcasticwit that he is kind of patented,
you know, talking into the cameraand just he's got that smirk. Oh,

(19:32):
because he's funny. Yes, he'samusing, but he is I don't
know Bobby all that well on apersonal level, but uh, you know
he he did to hit him withthe hind into the camera, which if
you're Howard Stern fan, you shouldbe popping huge for um. He just

(19:55):
seems like he's having fun while he'swrestling and still maintaining that killer shoot style,
red dragon influence. So I thinkthat's that's kind of the strength here.
Um. I did notice that KevinKelly is helping Scarlet with the ring
intro um, and Carino is makingfun of Sinclair on commentary for basically trying

(20:27):
to uh dial back the language.I appreciate that, which m h,
I definitely appreciate that one. Imean, there's use and then there's abuse,

(20:48):
bitch um. So once we getyou know there, there's a little
bit of a backstory. Hear theMotorCity machine Guns, who would eventually be
revealed to be the Knights of theRed Dawn, the KRD, the guys
in the Red Masks. They injuredDavari on a previous episode of Oroh that

(21:14):
was taped for like the road Rageor whatever they were calling it. They
were airing on TV the TV tapings, So Bobby attacks the knee here.
Of course, we know the machineGuns and Red Dragon would eventually have a
little bit of a story going,so that's pretty cool. Carino is making
more jokes about Jerry the King Waller, which that's interesting in itself, But

(21:45):
this one only goes ten minutes twentyone seconds. Your thoughts on the match
itself before I get into the finish. It's fine. It's a solid enough
opener for the main show. Isthis the kind of show they would have
This would not be something in twentyand fifteen. They would have been like

(22:07):
live streaming. I'm assuming no,this would have been live stream really yeah,
I mean pretty much every every quoteunquote house show which Ring of Honor
did not do house should thank you. I like, as I say it,
I just get this sinking feeling inmyself because that's what they referred to

(22:30):
them, as I know they referredgirls. In two thousand and nine,
they were being referred to as DVDevents. Do the DVD tape shows are
being referred to as house shows becausethey weren't HD nets And like we literally
there's not a single house show inthe entire history of Ring of Honor.
I get the closest, the SoaringEagle Cup there you go. Yeah,

(22:52):
that is the only house show inthe history Ring of Honor because that has
never seen in the light of dayin one in any way, shape or
form, right as far as Iknow, it was never it was never
streamed, it was never put ina DVD. It's not on Honor Club
like that show was a that thatis a how show in the Ring of
Honor landscape. Um, I'm otherthan that that that was a paid show

(23:15):
and that just never got taped.Possibly, I mean they said it's a
casino. I spent my eighteenth birthdaythere it. I don't know of any
other show none during my decade withthe company. That was how show everything

(23:36):
was. I mean there's matches tome that didn't make the cut, and
you know, pre shows and stuff, but like a full blown event.
Now there's no house shows in theentire catalog of two thousand and two to
twenty thirteen. And is that SoaringEagle Cups the only one I know of
and the entire catalog that was neverum public. Yeah, it's bizarre.

(24:00):
It's a very bizarre thing. Andjust like the definition of a house show
is a show done for the livehouse. Yes, like me going to
Saturday Night's main event trent the otherweek, like that was that's a house
show where you saw Roman Rains andhis career Apparently, yes, they saw
the internet going to a tizzy becausethe Roman Rains ended his career in front

(24:21):
of a few thousand people in Trentonand killed another career. It's ever Yeah,
yeah, that's where that's because that'sthe most logical place to end your
career is is to tell the worldin Trenton, New Jersey at a random
Saturday house show that you're a peopleare silly. I'm going I think it
was fun though it's a fun show. It was fun. I had fun.

(24:44):
Nathan enjoyed himself. I'm going inan airs is the man? Yep,
I'm gonna go go visit in acouple of weeks. I think,
uh, well, in particular,I want to go visit one person on
this show, the rest of him. Um, but the imagine I just
watched. I don't want to watchsee enough wrestling in my day. Just

(25:08):
like to say hello and thank youand that that's it. Not there for
the wrestlers, Let the fans sitin the seats. Was there for Nathan,
You're a fan. I'm a fanof the people. I really I
this wrestling, and in the Wednesdayand Friday wrestling, not the Monday and

(25:32):
whatnot wrestling. I'm saying, yeah, Okay, Cody and I Will got
tongue tied there. Cody and SethRollins had a very solid, entertaining house
show match, and I will givethem credit for their pay per view match,
which I thought was well backlash.Yet it's the only thing I watched
on the show. Uh, andthen I did see like thirty seconds of

(25:56):
Almost and Bobby actually just because Iwas intrigued by a very tall man,
gotcha, I wanted to see howthat went. But speaking of tall man,
Bobby Fish would throw some kicks.That's transition, folks. And he's
selling his leg as he's doing thekicks. So Samoan drop exploder into the

(26:18):
turn buckles, which was a greatbump from Davari. We get the hammer
lock DDT coming out from Aria Davari, which is a Nigel move, and
then he does the magic carpet rideshooting star Press style and Bobby Fish hits
the falcon arrow for the win.Ten minutes twenty one seconds. I just

(26:44):
and I noted like at the endhere the Persian party or man, you
know that, just just just doyour party gimmick, all right, Like
be a party boy. I don'tknow why we had to throw him Persian
in there. Yeah, then't doesn'tadd intrigues, not gonna cell tickets.
Just have your good match. Andthey had to be a human. Yeah,

(27:11):
don't be human, be a wrestler. U. So then we go
speaking of human humans, So Iguess you didn't appreciate Barry Horrowood's Jewish wrestling
superstar either because Jewish, I mean, because it was never done before.
I didn't not like it. Butthen they made him out to be a
total loser, and I was like, well, this is just fucking tatulous

(27:33):
because Jews don't who's in sports,come on? Just nitpicking at him.
Well, so, like there's oneam using wrestling connection to my sports and
Barry Horrowood. So he debuts,he beats uh, Chris Candido, and

(27:56):
I don't know if it was hisdebut match or whatever it was, but
the thing where he hold up Candido. Have you ever watched wrestling before him?
Yes, so you're you are awarethat Barry Horowitz did not debut in
nineteen ninety three, but like,no as a featured you know right,
not as just a job guy.Yeah, he had a big web.

(28:18):
Yes, So, like he getsthis win and it's you know, on
body done as Chris Candido skip.And that was the same day that I
hit a Grand Slam home run towin our championship in baseball, and the
Grand Slam was taken away from meby my own father. He sent me

(28:41):
back to third base. For throwingmy helmet in the air and celebrating,
and we ended the game in atie. So on the same day,
you and Barry Horowitz for the ChosenPeople. That's right, that's right,
we are the Chosen ones. Soup next we got a four corner match

(29:04):
is the romantic touch Will Ferrara,the Beer City Bruiser and Cheeseburger taking on
each other, And I gotta say, um, my biggest complaint about this
match is the Beer City Bruiser's camerapositioning. Okay, he took up like

(29:29):
his back was to the hard camp. Um, yeah, just he was.
So it's it's somebody's getting somebody's gotto be either. But you're saying
the biggest guy, Yeah, likewe should not have been the one.
Yeah, that's where Burger needs tobe. My biggest freak out was when
Cheeseburger almost became a smash Burger Yeah, on the outside of the ring,
and I thought he his Beer CityDoes you know the next t the plunge

(29:55):
cactus onto uh, everybody else inthe match, and just happens to be
Burger's head that catches the brun ofof Bruiser's ass and you immediately see Burger
start grabbing his own head to makesure it's still there. And I even
texted Ratt. I was as itwas happening, like, brother, what

(30:18):
the fuck? Why would you textRett? Because I was texting with rhet
at that moment, Like all right, Oh, I was very confused.
He's not on this show. Iwas texting with Rat while I was watching
this. Dude, Yeah, Imean so, like, I love the
idea of having this big, hugemonster and I'll have more on this thought

(30:41):
later on in the show. MonsterOkay, maybe not a monster or not
like a bigger heavy set, youknow, dude, Like it's something different,
right, I love that. Butyour City Bruiser, Like there's something

(31:03):
missing there and I couldn't figure itout. But I enjoyed the difference that
he creates, Like it's another uniqueway to go about wrestling, and you
have four completely bizarre characters here mixingit up. Um, obviously like the

(31:26):
four Corners. As we've talked aboutover the years, you know on the
show, not always the best matchon the show. Um, this this
was not a home run, butit definitely had its moments. That's probably
the worst match in the show,I would agree, Yeah, Um,

(31:52):
I just it's like, hey,we got these four guys booked, what
do we do with them? Yep, yeah, that's yeah, that's what
it. Um. I do likethe contrast in Burger versus Beer City and
Burger versus Will Uh, and thena romantic touch being the wildcard character.

(32:16):
Um. You know, he mixesin his his sexual innuendo spots and things
of that nature. So that's alwaysfun. Um. But the uh will
for our TOPEI um into the ddtout on the guardrails. That was pretty
cool. Um will picks up thewind pitting a romantic touch uh for such

(32:42):
a hot I mean, for forsomebody that is so strong and in such
great tremendous shape, the romantic touchjust loses every time he's out there and
there shows love can't win now thisSorry sorry I can't, but I mean,
well, what was going on towrestle Kushida? Like, yeah,

(33:05):
right after this basically getting at alittle bit of New Japan rub so I
gotta get him that big W.Yeah, the big the big W over
cheeseburger perennial Jabron romantic touch which youknow I don't understand that, and and
Beer City Bruiser who's still looking toestablish his place in our wage. Um,

(33:30):
he might have had the touch,but he did not have the power.
No, he did not. Andthat is that is definitely a love
wins related Uh, our love doesn'tsave? Was that the age of the
Fall thing? That was? Yes, that was yes, there there we
go. Love doesn't save. Um. You know, hey, look,

(33:52):
I mean that's Sae Conrad Sage.Yes, this is, you know,
another one of these four Corner survivalswhere everybody's doing everything to everybody. And
I don't know. It's time minutesand forty two seconds, and we're twenty
minutes into this show, and I'mjust like, oh, why, why

(34:15):
just for fifteen seconds of glory atthe end of the night. Why are
you making me watch this fifteen seconds? It was a fifteen second curiosity?
Why does this exist? Why doesthis happen? Obviously there's no context.
You know, people say numbers tellthe I believe that numbers. Numbers do
lie. Numbers give no context.It was fifteen seconds for a main event.

(34:39):
Gives you no context. So Ineeded to know we're getting there.
Speaking of things, put in thework. Always have to do the work.
Yes, absolutely, pay someone elseto do it for you. Oh,
I would like to um, MichaelElgan is help next and he's taking

(35:00):
on Capris Coleman. I'm just gonnasay this right now. If Capris Coleman
was not in this match, Iwas skipping it because this was long past
the point where Michael Elgan was thework keeping around and worth watching. I
just like heel Michael Elgin at thispoint. So here's kind of where his

(35:27):
story was at this point. Hegets the rh World title taken off of
him in Canada by Jay Briscoe.He gets his rematch, but it's not
one on one. It's the fourway at the anniversary show, where literally
all four guys were overshadowed by thereturn of Samoa Joe. He thinks that

(35:50):
matchmaker Nigel McGinnis has a grudge againsthim and is out to get him,
so he's now conspiracy theory Michael Elgin. He's going to take out all of
his anger and rage and all thecompetitors and Ring of Honor, and tonight
his victim is Chris Coleman. Andif I didn't have such incredible love for

(36:12):
the work of Chris Coleman, Iwould have clicked skips so fast on this
DVD that the button would have gottenconfused on the remote. Okay, you
do not realize, like because youweren't watching regularly at this point but now
not regularly at all at all.I mean you saw the Knockamura match from

(36:37):
like the next month with Kevin oras if the year before the only night
I watched Roddy and Knockamora. Okay, Roddy and Nackamas, so that would
have been this year. This isthe most like I don't know Michael elgin
self masturbatory wrestling match that I thinkI've seen him ever have I I hated

(37:07):
this. You think that four AWay was the worst match of the night,
I would be inclined to agree,just because Caprice was in this match
and he tried everything he could tomake Elegant look like a monster. I
was so over Michael Elegant at thispoint, like just sick of the same

(37:30):
thing in the same order, withthe same lack of emotion, And that
was my reaction to everything he woulddo. I con carr. I think
I made it bundantly clear, notnot the biggest, not not a fan
at all. Um, Yeah itwas yeah, and this was too so

(37:53):
the other part of it, likebesides the angle part of it, right,
it was also this is like thevisa stuff off and he can't work
here, and then he quit,but then he came back and he's gonna
go play baseball. Okay, that'sall this time frame. Yes, I
just I knew that. I knewthere were decent issues involved as far as
like you the candidate, company andum all that stuff. But and even

(38:19):
that I only I knew tangentially fromlike you know, reading it on Yeah,
if I could talk reading it,you know on p W insider stuff.
But I was not living this firsthandnor watching it firsthand. It was
all that, Oh, I justsee the story, here's an update on

(38:42):
I'll read, here's updates. I'llread the updates on stuff. Basically,
how you were for a Ring ofhonor or for wrestling in general at that
point was how I was for orhow I am right now for what's going
on at w W or impact.UM not said, don't care. I'm

(39:02):
clicking the story, but like youread the information to stay somewhat in the
know, but you're not watching it. Yes, I want to. I
want to be able to at leastconverse if somebody asks um, whereas there's

(39:25):
other wrestling that I am just totallyconsumed by, and this, I mean
this match, I would say,you know, I love Bring of Honor
for twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen,which I think we're two really fun years.
But this is like another example ofthe booking being the problem. Well,

(39:50):
so for contexts from how I gatherkind of reading, like all that
stuff with the visa and the quittingand that'll happen like six months before this
happened in twenty fourteen. Yeah,and then so there was something else that
happened like a year later too,because he's still stuck around through at least

(40:15):
the New Japan tour in twenty sixteen. Yeah, it's it's the end of
twenty sixteen that he's done. ButI'm just saying, like I'm just saying,
so I'm mixing. So all ofthat stuff happened in twenty fourteen,
with the storyline of losing the beltand the real life stuff with the visa

(40:37):
and not working and quitting and comingback all happened in twenty fourteen. So
now we're in April of twenty fifteenand pretty much nothing has happened as far
as the storyline progression coming out ofthat, is what I'm gathering, Like,
it's just kind of spun the wheelssince whenever he since he came back
in twenty fourteen, the storyline progressionsfun twheels until he left the company,

(41:01):
got never a payoff, gotcha okay, And it's just it's another one of
these delirious stories that have a intriguingstart and then just kind of run out
of gas without ever getting to thedestination whatever, if there was a destination,

(41:25):
I don't know, but I hatethe fact that I'm watching a Michael
Elgin match here against a really greatwrestler and Caprice Coleman, who like tries
to make Elgin look credible. Elganjust stiffs the shit out of him and
then beats him, and there wasno excitement, no drama. It screamed

(41:57):
like B show match, Like Idon't know, I don't know, m
Thankfully, this was kind of likethese first three matches were its own show
in its own corner, and thenwe pick up from here. Yeah,

(42:21):
I mean the match was, It'sfine, but I yeah, same,
completely uninterested anytime we watched these shows, especially from the newer period, like
you know, after you left,We look at it and we go,
Okay, who's moving forward here?Yeah? Have we seen anybody on this

(42:43):
show, aside from maybe Will ferOur moving forward? No, Bobby Fish
accomplishes no forward progress on the cardby beating Aria Davari. Will fer just
a match. Yeah, Will ferOur dances to go face Kushida and lose.
But that's already like a sep thing. It's not as if, you

(43:05):
know, the winner of the fourCorner Survival gets to wrestle Kushia. That's
already set up. I mean it'sin, it's in the cards, it's
already it's already booked, and andobviously Elgin's story is just stuck in them
up. So here we are threeentia were three matches deep, and none
of them have any grand scheme beyondthe match itself. Yes, correct,

(43:30):
Elgin picks up the wind with thebuck Obomb and the Michael Elgin Bomb ten
minutes, forty three seconds. It'sa lazy name too, Olgan bomb.
Yeah, because it's just po samepower bomb is Fatista, It's a Liger

(43:51):
bomb. Fine, it's you know, I mean, nobody just hated it.
I was always I just strongly dislikedthat finish the go to of the
buckle bomb, Elgin bomb. JustDan, I've I've seen enough of the
buckle bomb in my life. Allright. That's that's right up there with

(44:13):
like the Canadian Destroyer and all ofthe variations you know of that I've seen
seen enough. Let's come up withsome new stuff. Let's be innovative,
not imitative. Here's here's here's here'swhat we're gonna We're gonna do all fireman's
carries, Yes, hip tosses forall. Yes, Yes, fireman's carry

(44:43):
because you know, make what's oldnew again again. That could be a
high spot. Yes, top ropefireman's carry, I mean essentially, you
know top rope. Just call thatan attitude adjustments. Yeah, m super
fireman's carry. I think video gamesif they if if it wasn't a WW

(45:07):
game, I think they'd literally theycalled it like an elevated fireman's carry.
Instead of the a F, theFU or the attitude adjustment, it's the
elevated fireman's carry. I mean,if you if you look at at the
way some of the modern day likeyoung indie guys invent stuff, it's done

(45:34):
with the best of intentions. Itruly do believe this, that it is
done with the best of intentions.However, I would say every part of
the genesis of those intentions comes fromNintendo, PlayStation, Xbox, et cetera.
I saw it in a video game, so I'm gonna do it in

(45:54):
real life. Can I make thisa real move? Because I saw this
video game? There you go,And I have no idea if Nintendo makes
wrestling games. That's my frame ofreference for video games. So I'm sorry
if that makes me sound like ageezer. I don't know, but I'm

(46:15):
gonna tell you what. This showhas a clear delineation of a breaking point
because next up is a match thatI had an absolute last during. And
I think this is another part ofthe story of Adam Page morphing into what

(46:39):
he is present day. It isAdam Page representing the decade taking on Ah,
So there's a story behind behind that. I'm not saying that to insult
Ah or anything, but the firsttime I ever saw him in person,

(47:02):
he was super impressive. I thinkyou've seen it. I may have told
this story. Yeah, I thinkyou've told it to me. I don't
know if you've told it on theair, but you and I have definitely.
So he's wrestling with the Saint Louisguys. They drove into AIW in
Cleveland and I didn't know what hisname was, but his tight sent ach

(47:24):
and I hit the mic was reallybad at that point. They've gotten thankfully
better equipment since. But I justthought his name was Ah and I didn't
know, so, like I'm tellingStu this, I'm like, I think
that guy's name is Ah. I'venever seen him before, and he's like,

(47:44):
are you sure? And there werenobody around us that knew who he
was, and so I just kindof rolled with it. And then later
on I think it was revealed whenhe won the match to his name was
AH, and I was like,well, that sounds like AH. So

(48:07):
he'll be AH for a while,not to end until I know he's good.
But it stands for attitude, charisma, and heart, and I do
believe it is his actual real lifeinitials UM. So maybe that's what he's
going for. I don't know,but Adam Page here, it's his opponent,

(48:28):
and we know the decade which AdamPage was a part of, had
their their beef with ah Um onTV. In recent months and this is
from mc axel's report. I'm gladhe contextualized this. Paige tried to burn
one of Ah's rowadressling dot com tshirts. Should have tried to burn his

(48:50):
boots. That would have been hilarious. Burn your boots. That was a
What was the initial story for thatwas Okay, you're gonna remind me off
air because I seem to remember whoit was that said it, but I
don't remember who it was said tooh. So they had a fight in

(49:15):
San Antonio. Um and tonight they'regonna have themselves a singles match. Um
and boy did they ever because umAh does the handshake and he shakes hands
with the entire front row plus SteveCorino and Kevin Kelly, which is kind

(49:36):
of a real life UM inside Baseballstory because he apparently was not shaking hands
in the locker room, so he'soverdoing it on camera in front of an
audience that doesn't know that. Butthat's what he's doing. And this is

(49:58):
worker hand. Yes, yes,the great worker Aunt shout out um two
worker ant yes, yes, shoutout to work hand who also will be
shouting out, I don't know he'she's in an ant. I know ants
can't listen to podcasts, but i'dbe able to. I'm not exactly sure

(50:20):
about the auditory senses of ants.Did you have those big antennas right?
Yes, aunt Anna's Ah, let'ssee what you did there, well played,
well played? The horrible dad joke, yes, wow yeah? Or
via two time two time dad.So I need two time two time terrible

(50:42):
jokes. You know the crazy thing. I see my brother doing these dad
jokes with my niece and I'm andthey're just my dad's recycled material. I
told him he's got to start writinghis own shit, kid just copycat stuff,
and he just rolled his eyes atme. But the baby laughs,
So that's fun. This thing startsout great, like Pages. Inside the

(51:08):
ring, they do a big dropkick, spot, flagpole, head scissors
on the floor. Follows up,Page runs away from the opponent. Ah.
Now, if you remember when we'vewatched decade stuff from the past,

(51:29):
usually somebody Jimmy Jacobs in particular,would run around the ring away from their
opponent, get them chasing, andthen bj would cut them off with play
a clothesline or something. There's nobodyhere for that, so Page gets back
into the ring and he grounds thehigh flying AH and these guys proceed to

(51:51):
have a really, really good wrestlingmatches. And this is the kind of
match that I look for years removedfrom watching these shows live and can appreciate
them more because I think everybody wantsto compare the eras, and you know,

(52:15):
oh, who who had as gooda matches as you know, Punkin
Joe or Brian and Kenta in themodern era. It's not about who had
better matches, it's who had uniquematches and who stood out on their own
with their performance, who let theirwrestling do the talking. I think both
these guys have a great, greatmatch here. This is one of my

(52:37):
favorite matches on the show. Ifit were not for the Jay Lethal Kyle
O'Riley match, this would have beenmy favorite. Adam Pages is a great
job as the base for ACH's highflying, just showing how well versed a
very young Adam Pages. Believe hewas twenty four here twenty three, I

(53:02):
have to look, but yeah,young. So you can see the level
of competency in the ring that Adamis showing off. For example, Ah,
you know, does some flips andstuff, but he starts firing back

(53:24):
with a kick flurry Adam Page andthen hits this running lariat and Page is
selling He's he's kind of like notsure what to react because it's not high
flying stuff, so his cell ismore of I'm in pain, but I'm
also unsure how to defend myself.Like. He does a great job of

(53:49):
expressing what's happening to him, AndI think it's really something I didn't notice
in twenty fifteen, just because Ididn't know that that was what I shouldn't
be looking for. But now seeinghow far Adam has advanced, I'm able
to see this and go wow,Like he's really picking up inch by inch,

(54:15):
he's getting better and better and betterand maturing more as an overall performer.
Well, I watched somebody who youknow, the performer, and that
we know. Now I can seethe I see the roots of it.
I see the roots of somebody whocare. Who would grow to care about
the the storytelling aspect of it,not just the in ring, not the

(54:38):
not just the moves it would growto who care about the storytelling part of
it in the match which is evidencedby And I think this goes for both
of them actually, And I knowIt's not something people tend to think of
with Ach, but like the bodyparts selling in this from Ah, it
actually pays off. It's not justoh, this is what I'm this is

(54:58):
what I'm doing until it's time oryou know, come back and stuff.
It's no. It actually the factthat you know that that that page is
working the midsection, the ribs,the entire match pays off when it come
time for Ah to come back becausehe's not doing his usual shit to come
back. He's you know, theydo that double cross body spot, and

(55:21):
which is so much cooler than thelame double clothesline spot by the way,
if anybody gives a shit about myopinion to that, I hate your loose
line spot. But the double crossbody spots so cool, especially with that
good impact. And then Ach obviouslyis going to take the worst of it
because he's been getting his ribs andtummy worked on this whole time. And
it's that selling of that plays intothe rest of the match, like he's

(55:43):
not doing his usual stuff because he'sbanged up, and I don't think people
think of Ahs being that guy.This is our most recent example of ROH
doesn't tell stories. Part six thousandhundred. But this is a story within
the match. Yeah, And Ithink it's a story within the match,

(56:05):
and I guess, you know,you can look at it too as a
story of Page learning from his decadepeeps, um picking up little things from
them, whether it be moves likeactual moves that they do or u and
actually it translating into something more thanjust he's just the young boy carrying their
their water bucket. Yep. It'sit's really good stuff. Yeah, and

(56:30):
you watch and you and I thinkthis is the first time you really from
what we've know because I've watched theshow now, we've watched the show for
this where he joined the decade,and we've seen a few other spots where
he's been involved with him, butthis one is like a full blown He's
now a full blown member of Likehe's a heel now with this match,

(56:53):
he's not just the young boy learningunder these the you know these three,
He's he becomes a full blown heelof his own through this match, and
I think you get the first realcharacter out of you know, the the
future Hangman with this match. It'sthat progression that we've seen from deduction as

(57:17):
the young boy to turning on Cedricto becoming this more adult version of Adam
Page. Yeah, he's more agressivethan he was before. He's on his
Oh, like you said, he'son his own completely. There's no bj

(57:37):
Rody or Jimmy at ringside with him. He is. Yeah, at last,
he's on his Oh well, we'vewe've really gotten the music in today.
I like that Christian theme, soI like the one that sounded like

(57:58):
the Queen's song. Yeah, that'swhat I was just saying. But there's
a there's two, Chris show Ican't do a false setto or whatever.
I don't know what things are.There's two. There was like an original
version that lasted like a week ortwo weeks, and then there was the

(58:22):
next one that was like the staplebut still not as good as his just
close your Eyes song my opinion.So we uh, we talked about where
they they would go during the courseof the match. The finish is Page
just viciously ramming Ah into the guardrail, shooting star Press off the apron by

(58:45):
the future hangman Um. They goback into the ring, Ah blocks a
superplex and hits a flying mushroom doublestomp to the back of the head of
of Page that gets a two count. He misses the four fifty splash,
he tries the hero's grip, Pageblow blows Ah, and he gets the

(59:12):
win as he's stolen it from agesixteen thirty eight. A wonderful example of
character work in ring quality action.A finish that I know some people are
probably good to low blow she did. No, I didn't get the finishing

(59:34):
move. No, it fits thecharacter. It's perfect. This This gets
me. I'm clapping. Yeah,I would stand up if I was out
of camera view. I love thismatch, and I am a monstrous fan
of Hayman Adam Page and this wholejourney from you know literally remember him doing

(01:00:00):
a dark match um where he hadlike a bowl cut with his hair,
uh to seeing where he is nowpresent day is like one of the greatest
journeys for me as a wrestling fan, a fan of that style of wrestling.
To see start, you know,growth, more growth, top guy

(01:00:23):
in a small place, big name, top guy in the top place.
Pretty awesome. M final thoughts onthis match for for I definitely give it
a strong thumbs up. It's thebest thing that's happened thus far. It's

(01:00:43):
you know, top three on theshow. I'm a big fan of it
and I think as a's it's abit of um, it's a break it's
I'm not gonna call it a breakout, but it's a bit of a a
leveling up, I think for forPage, um as far as thing is

(01:01:07):
saying, becoming a character, amore defined character than just the young boy
for the decade, um kind ofshowing how he's learned under their tree and
on top of it, on topof the the the story part of it,
it's the bell, the bell ofIt's really exciting and I think you

(01:01:28):
get to see an ach that youdon't necessarily expect with the potential to detail
on the selling in the back halfof the match. So big thumbs up.
Good match. But it's not overyet because that shot to the Nego
regions of ACG causes a big fightand Ah and Adam Page are separated.

(01:01:52):
They keep fighting and we've got somescreaming from Ah and uh Ah does the
big running moon salt running you know, Air Jordan flipping moon salt thingy that
he does onto a bunch of enhancementcharacters for the evening and celebrates with the

(01:02:17):
crowd. So he gets his babyface fireback there. But we've really seen
forward progress with page here, andI think Ah took a step forward as
well. Um Unfortunately that that justdoesn't seem to really ever go anywhere.
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Become a paid for in today atPagreon dot com Slash an hoarable pod.
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(01:03:43):
pod and get early ad free accessand be worthy of an honorable mention.
Up next is a match that Isaw on the card and I just wait,
huh, where are we here?Is this? It's Danny Duggan and
the anarchist Eric Cannon. Danny Dugan, Dugan Dugan, same thing. Yeah,

(01:04:13):
yeah, so there's apparently a Britishwrestler with the same name. According
to mc axellum of Danny Dugan,I know we used him a couple of
times in like two thousand and nine. I want to see two thousand nine
ten. I do believe this isthe only appearance of Eric Cannon since the

(01:04:38):
Do or Die event, Yes,which is I don't know if there's a
name after this off the top ofmy head, but yeah, this is
the first time he's since Stewart IFood No. Two or three? No
No. Four. I'm gonna gowith four because duart I three. Duart

(01:04:59):
I three was the one with completionSei been j July Evo four. Yeah,
So I mean, there's a slimchance it would have been that one,
but I'm more inclined to say DoorI four with Claudio and no,

(01:05:24):
that's dort I five, that's fivefour. Door I four was um super
Dragon b Boy ex Caliber and me, um, yeah, because I would
have been the one with the thirdanniversary celebration, I believe m. Yeah.

(01:05:48):
Yeah, so I'm I'm I'm leaningmore towards that to do or die
well, but he's he's uh,these two guys are here for all of
five minutes in nineteen seconds, andI don't know, Um, I don't

(01:06:09):
know if these two did local promotionhere or maybe Eric Cannon, you know,
he's the head of First Wrestling,maybe it was his ring. I
don't know now because this is thering that has though this is definitely in
our wag ring. It's got thegiant plastic caps that we put on top

(01:06:30):
of the corner posts because of thembeing rough, like those are the old
plastic caps that we shit probably startedusing in twenty ten or eleven or whatever
that predated the overpriced Danny Davis ringthat we got within at the beginning of
Sinclair, the thirty dollar ring dude. Yeah, yes, so yeah,

(01:06:56):
Danny Dugan did work. It wastwo shows in twenty and ten. Okay
um I was Dark Sun Efficate Counterthree in Fate of an Angel two hum
as far as Cannon keep going,But I don't know's I found it very
again. This is it's kind oflike this is kind of like the four

(01:07:17):
way and kind of like the theopening match where it's just why yeah,
because it's not even a it's nota match that is given enough to really
showcase either guy or if the intentwas to get a look at anybody for

(01:07:38):
future consideration, Like it's not there'snot enough there, you know, it's
for that. It's just kind ofexactly that. It's like, well we
here's a yeah door I four yep, the one at the second third anniversary
celebration the Xbox who was Eddie wasFast Eddie Cannon, Generico and Josh Daniels

(01:07:58):
Um and then Dannon. This isthe the other match he ever had.
Uh yeah, I just it's oneof those I just don't get aside from
that, literally we're in Minnesota,put Eric on the show because it it's
so inconsequential. It's not it's nota match that features any there's no regular

(01:08:24):
Roah talent on there where it's like, okay Cannon against If it was Cannon
and Fish, that that would havemade to me makes more sense because you're
taking like the local name who hasplenty of indie credibility. By twenty fifteen,
I mean at this point, Cannonhad been wrestling for twelve years,

(01:08:45):
Uh, because I know he's Iwant to say he started before I did
in two thousand and four, sotwo thousand and one, so you know
he'd been wrestling for fourteen years atthis point. Um, he's well established,
well entrenched, aim to the fanbase locally as well as you know
that's actually going to spend any moneybuying ring about a product, whether BBOD

(01:09:08):
or DVD or whatever. And thenyou have Fish, who's obviously well established
in that same vein like he Fishhad been wrestled just as long plus as
he's an established ring abounor guy likethat to me makes more sense as a
match. Um, this just feelslike here's two local guys were just throwing
him on the show. M becauseit's not there's nothing in it. No,

(01:09:31):
there's nothing here to sink your teethinto, Like Dugan had had gone
to um some training camps that Ringof Baro would run at the office in
Baltimore, and they were still inBristol to Bristol. UM, so it
kind of felt like, Okay,here's a reward for going to these camps

(01:09:54):
and paying us Like I said hehad, he had. He had worked,
you know, with a couple ofdarks in two thousand and ten as
well, one in in Mississaugua thatpick in Counter three, which I think
was Mississauga, and then yeah,yeah, any ranch shows in Canada,
and then he worked the Fate ofan Angel two, which was a Chicago
show, but um permit was it? I don't remember anymore. I think

(01:10:19):
it was. But in regardless likeit, it's just as very strange things
to throw in the middle of theshow. It feels to me more like,
given what it was, the timeit's given, it feels to me
much more like here's a dark match, yeah yeah, like or come back

(01:10:45):
from intermission popcorn style match. Butum, I don't know. Eric Cannon
gets to win in five minutes innineteen seconds with his total anarchy move.
Um, Dick, I just didn'tdo anything. And speaking of not doing
anything, let's talk about a verynice lady, ODB. She's supposed to

(01:11:12):
have a Woman of Honor match andinstead of having her match, and she,
by the way, in Ring ofHonor, ODB is referred to as
one dirty brisco So she's apparently aBriscoe family adjacent member because you know,
the B word is not welcomed here. But she's cut off by Truth Martini

(01:11:38):
and Truth talks trash about the Briscos. We know that the big feud of
the time is Jay Lepol and JayBriscoe, and Truth Martini decides that he
wants to challenge ODB to a match, so they have a match, and

(01:12:01):
there are no winners here. Thatincludes us for having to watch this.
And yeah, ODB does her dealwhere she drinks and slaps her chest and
Jaylee full super kicks her and thisis eight minutes of stupid. The Briscoe's
run out but they can't touch theHouse of Truth per stipulations on commentary.

(01:12:30):
Yeah, this was the thing thathappened. Yeah, I didn't really get
it from that standpoint. I mean, the live audience seemed to enjoy themselves,
but it's way longer than it neededto be. About eight minutes long.

(01:12:57):
Yeah, it's way longer than itneeded to be. And I yeah,
it just it's fine. It's justI think it's one of those things
that it's good, it's entertaining forthe house, for the people that were
there alive, but did nothing foranything beyond that, Like, it doesn't

(01:13:24):
it's it does when we talked aboutyou know what, you know, you
know, what's the business of thesegment, Like we talked about, you
know what, what each match,what it was doing for somebody or elevating
their movement, Like this doesn't doanything for anything beyond just this moment,
this night in front of this crowd. Um, it doesn't really do anything
for the viewing audience to me,um watching this sun whatever format in our

(01:13:47):
case, the vod the on ourclub stream, which just it's like,
okay, that's fine. I kindof sat here as I was watching it
and I just find all right,let's see maybe truth can make something out

(01:14:09):
of this. And then he didn't, and I just said, all right,
let's just wrap it up. Andthen it went for like another six
minutes. And I don't know,not for me, not in the sports
entertainment category, but what was nextDefinitely seemed like it was up my alley

(01:14:30):
on paper, the last real man, Silas Young taking on Roderick Strong,
mister roh. And again we arein a period of time where Silas Young
is just existing in ring of honorand not doing anything for whatever ungodly reason.

(01:14:55):
I mean, at this point,you get me, you could tell
him commentary. He sounds like he'sfreshly returned and from injury and hurt.
You know, he had a hamstringlike poll or tear or something where he
had to wrap up. But Imean, at this point, like the

(01:15:15):
story is, you know, he'sbeen out for months, so he's got
to make up for his lost wages, you know, to support his family.
But knowing where it led for hischaracter to just associate with Beer City
Bruiser as a tag team that wentnowhere, I kind of just wlanted to
watch this match for the wrestling ofit, and it was a very well

(01:15:42):
wrestled match. Um I I thinkI'm neglected to find anybody that is more
fluid than Roderick Strong in the professionalwrestling business at that speed. Like obviously,
I think if we're really gonna compareapples, Brian Danielson is the overall

(01:16:05):
better wrestler. But Roddy is likedead set number two in terms like look
at how fast he moves and itjust seems effortless. Yeah, now,
I mean he's a car absolute cardiomonster. Roddy is always that. Yeah,

(01:16:30):
he developed into an absolute cardio monsterto make anybody would be hard pressed
to keep that keep his pace.That was one of the things that I
always made him and Davy such aninteresting thing because it was just two cardio
monsters going out there and trying tosee who could blow the other one hump.
It felt like I do I dolike this match for one other particular

(01:16:56):
reason. Um, the contrast inperson ladies, Silas is the typical like
old school bad guy, right,Roddy is the old school good guy,
smiling, clapping, does cool moves, and uh, I think it's interesting,

(01:17:19):
like you know, there there issomething here with these two. And
then I don't think they ever touchedagain, so naturally they think at this
point too. I mean, Roddy, it feels like, guys, I'm
watching this, it just it isjust about the matches he has, because

(01:17:42):
it doesn't feel like he does anythingthat there's no He's just kind of here
until he's not, is what itseems like. Uh, the decade,
his his part with the decade isover? Um is there any does he
even really really up the up withthe decade? Just kind of like yep,
he's off and does his own thing, and there's no like BJ and

(01:18:03):
Roddy have some big blow off match, or they may have had like one
one on one back, but Idon't think it was. I would be
hard pressed to recall specifically what thatwas, whether it was like a street
fight or a no DQ or afight without an honor whatever label we want

(01:18:24):
to abandon logic and rules for.But I just I don't know. I'm
watching Roddy here and it does kindof feel like at times he is going
through the motions because he's just waitingon that NXT contract to come his way
and be done with this. Iremember a talk with him. It would

(01:18:50):
have been almost a year later.It wasn't like early twenty sixteen, because
it was cold out, and hewas like pretty adamant that he was just
gonna be here forever and just kindof continue until he can't, and he
seemed almost oppressed about it. Andthen he went on this streak of matches

(01:19:17):
in early twenty sixteen, and Iwas like, damn he he got his
mojo back. And then the NXCthing came, I want to say,
like in May or June twenty sixteen, and off he went. So he

(01:19:42):
was just there. He'd be inlike four Corner matches and you know,
proving ground four Corner survivals, andhe was he was he at that point.
I mean, he was a staple, you know, I mean here.
Yeah, and this is April.They're still sick. He's still got

(01:20:04):
fourteen months left of the company.That's a long time to just kind of
but like they never bothered to puthim in a real story like the last
two years that he was there.Yeah, I think, I know,
I know, I know. Heruns back with the TV title, so

(01:20:25):
he's yeah, him and Bobby andyeah, that's one of those weird,
like you look at their title historymoments as well, because Roddy actually defends
the TV title, has a tighterdefense that airs after he last against Gresham.
Actually he defends it against Gresham afterthe belt is already I wonder if

(01:20:48):
that was the one that was inNo, it was just Inshall. The
matches in Nashville, Gresham in delirious. I think was the one that I
remember going like eighteen minutes and mejust sitting there going, oh my god,
this maybe the worst match I've everseen in Ring of Honor history.

(01:21:11):
And now, like Jonathan Gresham isone of my favorite wrestlers to watch,
so I don't know what to do. Yeah, now you were so you're
actually a right dude, because theKnackamor match was right after this. We
were talking when you mentioned that itwas the it was the it was from
this TV this set of TV ofNew Japan shows. Um. But yeah,
yeah, even like looking over thehistory, it's like there's a lot

(01:21:32):
of matches, but it doesn't seemlike there's anything. It's just it's there's
nothing to sink your teeth into.Like he's a TV champ, but it
doesn't look like there's any overarching storyof his TV title ron. It's just
he's the champion again. You know. It's lots of really cool sounding matches,
you know, him and lethal'll doworld title match he's got with the

(01:21:53):
TV title Ron, he wrestles withthat Okata match. You know, he's
but it all just seems like they'rejust your stuff to do. It's not
so you're under contract, you're onthese shows, have a Yeah, he
wrestles Evil pre pre Evil Evil.I just see. But for this match,

(01:22:15):
he was what is his title run? He wrestles Stevie Richards, Massada
and Curry Man while he's the TVchampion. Yeah, he was doing like
Open Challenge and TV title TV TitleOpen Challenge. Is there a Dalton Castle
match in there somewhere too? UmberWalker wressels Sampson Walker. Of if this

(01:22:39):
is the same I poop on people, Sampson Walker. There's a four corner
with Dalton, but there's not likea singles match during his title run.
But maybe and maybe it wasn't duringthe title running, it was after an
Then there's this weird convoluted every titleis on the line cluster fuck from Winter
Warriors twenty sixteen. Uh, youwrestled Doe Rio on that Winter Warriors or

(01:23:03):
maybe it was the year now that'snot this one, um, But to
rewind it back to this match insteadof the all the other good stuff,
Robert said, Yeah, it alllooks like very good stuff. It just
doesn't on Hateer, which doesn't necessarilyget the context. It doesn't look like
there's a thread of a program withanybody, a story with anybody. It

(01:23:25):
just here's Roddy doing Roddy stuff againsteverybody. Here's here's a fun question.
I know we said we're gonna getback to this specific match, but do
you think Joe Cooff knew the identityof Curry Man? Probably not. I

(01:23:53):
didn't think so. Probably not.Well, definitely not beforehand, and we
still didn't as it was happening.So in this match, particularly, like
there's some really great, just hardhitting Ring of Honor style wrestling, and

(01:24:15):
I just think Silas Young is thebiggest swinging miss from Delirious. As a
booker, you had something here.You had a unique, like miserable,
grumpy old man character that wasn't anold guy that got people to boo him,

(01:24:41):
and then you'd slide him up andthen you'd slide him down the card,
You slide him back up, slidehim back down, and nobody cared.
Yeah, it seems from what we'vewatched, a career of it kind
of meandering. It sucks it likeit really upsets me because I thought he

(01:25:08):
was somebody that could have been aworld champion. And I don't know,
maybe it's just me and I'm kindof on an island to myself. But
he was. He had such agreat, legitimate, believable character that didn't

(01:25:33):
feel like he had to put effortinto being this character. It was just
Silas with the volume turned up orwhatever his real name is, with the
volume turned up. So it wasauthentic to him, and he and Roddy
went out here and had a great, great match, very enjoyable. You

(01:25:56):
see Silence's athleticism. Silence would gofor a lariat, uh, Roddy ducks
springboard lariat instead. The PG wara plunge gets turned into a I think
it's the first time you've ever pronouncedit properly wire up. I think,
at least how I think it's pronounced. I've I've practiced, uh, you

(01:26:21):
know, like the Simpsons open whereBart is rewriting the same phrase over and
over. I have on PG wara plunge, pg war a plunge par
a plunge because I do want topay respect to Silas super talented guy.
Um. The stronghold is locked on, Silas gets out with a knee strike.

(01:26:45):
Um. Then he tries to plungeagain. Roddy just kind of swats
at him and they do a diveto the floor, a big kick out
on the floor. Silas Young comesback in with the ring bell and he
hammers Roddy in the stomach with thering bell. Who for whatever reason,
maybe he it's his super powerful hisabs. He ignores it and he just

(01:27:10):
hits the sick kick for a win. Yeah. Yeah, it's like Sting
getting hit with a chair on theback. Yes, nope, that was.
That may have been my favorite alltime Sting moment was when he's in
the balcony and I think Mark Quinnhits him with a chair and Sting just
goes Yeah, it goes back thebalcony dive. God bless that man.

(01:27:34):
He is a hero. Um.But like, this is an undercard match
on a show, and it delivered. It got seventeen minutes nineteen seconds.
Yea. It had action, ithad good selling, It had unique you
know transitions, no real like storylineimplications, but it was enough to hold

(01:28:00):
my attention and I really enjoyed it. I thought, this is a good
combo of wrestlers and I would haveliked to have seen more. Yeah,
it was I very much. Ienjoyed the match as well. Yeah,
it's solid salid yea Silence was off. I didn't realize and I just looked
he was off for almost a year. So it's like almost a year without

(01:28:24):
a Ring of Honor match, andit's like up here now, yeah,
go Grossel Roddy, now have fun, have fun. But it's to speak
to what you were talking about beforehandwith the missed opportunity. So just again
on paper, you look at itand it's silas seemed to be kind of
in that world title mix before hegot hurt. Like you look at it,
it's a lot of a title matchor approving around match or a four

(01:28:47):
corner you know, number one contendermatch, and then post injury, it's
just like you're stuff. You know, it's not not the same. It
feels like he kind of when hecame back, it was not into a
similar not into the same spot onthe car. But also I guess the

(01:29:09):
landscape at that point too, whenhe came back in twenty fifteen a change,
because now it's here's Jay Luther isa made man, here's the you
know, the influx of the newJapan talent, here's you know, I
noticeably absent from this show, butpart of the company, any the the
Bullet Club Elite, uh stuff isnot on this show, but there are

(01:29:30):
you know, a presence at thispoint. So I guess, yes,
I just came back from the injuryto a bit of a different world as
well. It's interesting because I've alwaysthought about this. I've never really asked
anybody that has had the booking positionbefore, But when somebody gets hurt and
they come back, I almost wonderif, like the injury is a loss

(01:29:54):
of faith in that performer, orif it's all right, well we moved
on without you and we're doing better, so maybe you weren't worth the investment.
I don't know, it's a reasonablequestion. I mean, if I
it's got to be different every situation, yeah, yeah, I mean I

(01:30:15):
would imagine if it's perpetual injuries,there could be some idea that, you
know, if it's just boom,you know, keeps happening, that's one
thing. But a company does haveto move on, you know. We
can't just leave a spot open forwhenever person comes back. Necessarily. I
mean some people, yes, ifthey're a made made person, yeah,

(01:30:41):
yeah, But I don't think Idon't get the impression from how you've talked
about it in the shows we havewatched and looking at the just the numbers
of it. He was that Silaswas, Um, he's not established,
he's there now, he's there.Was Hunter was using him in the peripheries

(01:31:06):
of that world title picture as someonewho it seems like could at least be
slotted in there and used believably andacceptably. But he's not cemented as a
top guy. So right, Yeah, there was room for him to grow
into that. I think that injuryreally sidelined and and sidetracked him, and

(01:31:28):
it stuck with him for the restof his ROH run. It seems very
very inconsistent. But he is notthe only person of all victim, so
he's not on an island by himself. That It's just comes with the booking
of Hunter Johnson unfortunately. Um.But good match, fun fun stuff here

(01:31:54):
um. And speaking of fun stuff, um, what comes next is a
tag team match? Is the firsttag team match we have had all night?
Yes, with all the talent thathas been on this show already,
Yes, first tag match of thatnight. Yeah, just throw throwing that
out there. Interesting Now, theone thing I wanted to talk about before

(01:32:18):
we talk about war Machine of Hansonand Rowe taking on the Briscoe brothers of
Jay and Mark is back in theuh well upcoming in the summer months,
you had kind of the beginnings ofShane Taylor and Keith Lee coming in as

(01:32:41):
a tag team. So those twoguys h P P BK. I believe
was there Pretty boy Killers? Ithink? Yeah? So we like the
one show that I've watched with youthat they were on, Yeah, I
think that was their team name,war Machine, the Briscoes. Like the

(01:33:04):
three of those teams regularly having matcheswith each other just sounds like the greatest
thing ever to me. Like justbig meaty strong men slapping meat, going
to town on one another, justbeat the crap out of each other,
dropping people on their heads. Youknow, everybody's completely unique. There's no

(01:33:30):
no faction, association, no managers. It's just violence for the sake of
violence. You could have signed meup for it. But Keith Lee goes
off to evolve, Shane Taylor kindof floats around here for a little while
on his own and then forms theRebellion, which had tons of potential and

(01:33:55):
then ever won anywhere thanks to thebooking. But this tag team match,
right, I fucking love it.Yes, I just I don't know.
There's something about the tag matches wherethere's this element of hate between the two

(01:34:20):
sides that they just go after it. Now Ray Row was hurt in a
motorcycle wreck. Pretty dangerous. Highlyrecommend the Railroad documentary that I believe was
for sale from Ring of Honor fora little while. I don't know where
you get it now I do nothave it, so sorry Patreon members.

(01:34:45):
But these these teams had a prettygood rivalry before that, and Row is
back, war Machine is back reunited, and these guys have a really strong,
like fifteen minute brawl that I wouldsay the last six minutes of is

(01:35:06):
just top notch stuff. Yeah,yeah, I mean, I haven't scenes.
I was looking up to try andfind an answer to your question.
All I found was the UM gothe crowdfunding the go fund me or whatever

(01:35:27):
for the documentary. UM, it'skind of black, a black DVD cover
with like raised bald head based onthe screen. I remember that. I
don't I've never seen it. Umthere's a trailer. There's a trailer for
it. But you know this,the go fund me did not hit its

(01:35:50):
goal, so I don't know.What that means, Uh, DVDs are,
DVDs are in September of twenty andten of just said DVDs are in
September tenth of twenty fifteen. Okay, so maybe this is a different injury.
Now, this is it? Thisis Oh where did you get?
Oh, September tenth, September Septembertenth of twenty fifteen. That was the

(01:36:15):
update that said DVDs are in Soat some point of ships you have to
I don't ask, but I might. Yeah, it's it's it's it's it's
the Briscos in a tag team match. That's a fight, you know,
this is this is this is thewheelhouse the brisco is that it's against two
guys who can just go right withthem. Uh, it's it is an

(01:36:36):
highly entertaining like fight and it's it'suh yeah, that's the best way I
can describe with that. It's justsuch a highly entertaining fight that feels like
that feels like a fight between fourguys who do not like each other.
Yeah. The other kind of interestingelement here of this match in a to

(01:37:00):
PBK like Killer Elite Squad was comingin, so you know that's another big
hoss tag Team that it could havebeen a part of this and you could
have literally done like you know,maybe five or six throwing gallows and Anderson
in there and like these hard hitting, big boy you know, non flip

(01:37:25):
and flop high flying tag matches,and then you have your high flying tag
matches on the show with the Bucksand Kyle O'Riley and Bobby Fish and the
machine guns and I mean just agluttony of variety. Yeah, yeah,
like that's amazing to me. Yeah. And then yeah, these besides Killer

(01:37:47):
Elite Squad are dipping in with anyof the teams who are you know it's
coming over for for New Japan thoseshows? Yeah, yeah, who would
have lots of lots of fun tobe had here. And there's a lot
of fun within this the confines ofthis match because Mark brisco is not haha,

(01:38:11):
Mark Briscoe here, He's serious,Mark brisco Yeah, M and Hanson
have this really awesome exchange at thestart of the match. Um, and
and Mark's bumping around. Jay hasn'teven gotten into the ring, you know,
maybe at the halfway ish point ofthe match. Um no, maybe

(01:38:34):
not quite that, but like fiveminute mark, six minute mark, somewhere
in there, and uh, thisis a lot of fun, Like they're
they're working on Roe's neck once Jayfinally does come into the ring, and
uh playing off his real life injuries, which is great. Um, they've

(01:38:59):
isolated him and he's you know,still fresh back from injury, so why
not isolate and attack him before thebig man can come in and learn?
Wild and Hansen? Um did dothe uh the cactus closeline spot from Hansen?
Did Jay Briscoe back body drop overthe turnbuckles from Ray Road and Mark

(01:39:24):
Brisco Just some some small little highlightsthere. Um. I think war Machine
is going to be unfortunately forgotten aboutin the landscape of tag team wrestling.
In Ring of Honor, you know, everybody goes Brisco's Kings of Wrestling,

(01:39:46):
machine Guns, Red Dragon, Wolves, Bucks, bad bad influence really yeah,
Daniels and Kazarian, Yeah, Iwould say, you know whatever,
the addiction, I'm sorry that influencewas na Yes, the addiction, you

(01:40:10):
know, Steen and Generico. ButI think war Machine has like a really
underrated run. And I think thestory of Hansen going from like being handsome
Johnny to you know, doing thedark matches and then the back surgeries and
then coming back and finding this thisgroove through the Top Prospect tournament to be

(01:40:32):
a tag team. This story isamazing there that they just don't have this
long significant run before w B comesin and says, well, thank you.
I mean they put in a goodamount of work compared to some others.
I mean they have. I thinkthey put it a good amount of

(01:40:56):
work, good couple of years ofwork that they isn't maybe three years yeah,
yeah, something like that. Yeah, um, twenty fourteen, Yeah,
three years, two more, threeyears, yeah, twenty fourteen,
and they have three and a halfyears of of of working there. I
mean that's they're a tag team longerthan the Wolves were. They're tag team

(01:41:20):
longer than than the Kings were inRing of Honor, you know, and
they've got a pretty damn impressive resumeof matches and opponents. And I think
that just it goes into that we'vementioned it before, and we've talked about

(01:41:42):
it increasingly with these last several showswe've done that were of the era that
it gets lumped a lot into thatthe only thing going on was New Japan
and you know, Bullet Club EliteBTU related stuff, yep. Like that.
They kind of get lost in thatbecause man, they they even in

(01:42:06):
the will use your favorite word,the lexicon of Ringing of Honor tag teams,
they're different than anything in the Yeah, at this twenty fifteen, So
at this point, thirteen years ofthe company's existence, I can't think of
any other tag team that really wasremotely similar to them, that had any

(01:42:32):
really any kind of staying power orlong term usage in the company, can
you No? But I got twobig bruisers as a tag team, the
Ring of Honor. The only thingstylistically I would compare to them is the
Hit Squad, and they were sodrastically different. Yeah, completely different.

(01:42:55):
It's just it's the hard hitting physicalelement that I look at and say,
Okay, that might be somewhat onthe same plane, yeah, but it's
so visually different there there. It'ssuch a unique entity for Ring of Honor
that, yeah, that that theycould use. But yeah, they're I
think in the in the the bigthe big picture. You know, they

(01:43:20):
do get overshadowed by those names thatyou mentioned, in part because of the
era in which they made their biggestimpact on the company. I h I
really like both guys as far asin ring talent goes this this story with
the Briscoes, and they had areally good one with the Young Bucks in

(01:43:43):
Columbus. H and that horrible concertvenue I couldn't take stage stage something.
See those Yeah it's the same placethat owns the Pittsburgh venue too. Yeah
it's stage as the one in Pittsburgh. Yeah. Yeah, so this would
have been Express Live, Express Live, Okay, but these guys they go

(01:44:05):
fourteen twenty four and it was justaction after action after action here, especially
in that home stretch the war Machinethey do the double choke slam on Jay.
Mark dives off the mat to breakit up. He gets power bombed
on his head. The war Machinegoes for the fallout, that doesn't happen,

(01:44:27):
that gets cut off doomsday device onray Row. He goes out of
the ring. So Mark just decides, I don't care about my body.
I'm gonna go hit a Blockbuster tothe floor and Hansen gets hit with the
Jay driller and he kicks out bigpop. I mean and not like a

(01:44:50):
oh, like a ah, becauseit was a such a protected rare thing.
The pop in my house as Iwas watching it was very similar to
the pop in the uh whatever PresidentExpo Center that we're in. Eisenhower.

(01:45:12):
Uh, there's nobody Eisenhower. Yeahyeah, this building, yes, yes,
yes, but yeah what can youcan you ten times? Oh yeah?
In in twenty years of the Ringof honor, eighteen years at the
Briscoes, you know, minus theirtheir their year and a half hiatus,
like eighteen years of Jay Jiller's andit's been kicked out of probably less than

(01:45:38):
ten times. Yeah, it's it'spretty amazing. And the fact that they
would give this honor to Hansen tellsyou what the Briscos felt about working with
war Machine. It was is oneof the rarities in progressing of a protected
move and it's it always felt likegot um. So yeah, I was

(01:46:02):
sure as hell shocked. Yeah,it was a great spot. But then
Jay hits it again and that's allshe wrote. So and nobody's survived too.
It's just not possible. This wasjust so much fun, the near
fall with the Jay Driller at theend, great falsey, Like there is

(01:46:28):
this chemistry between these two teams thatit's different than the chemistry the Briscos had
with the Kings, or the Briscoshad with the Bucks or you know,
any of their rivals, the Wolves, whoever over the years. It's it's

(01:46:49):
a different match. It's my kindof wrestling match. It felt like a
very big you know, all japanheavyweights like that. Yeah, I give
it. It's another one. Youknow, it's you said, it's basically
the second aside from the Why WhyYeah why wrestling with the you know,

(01:47:15):
logical usage of the cannon match there, like since the Page match, you
know, this card has just beenhitting pretty pretty solidly, and this as
the lone tag match on the entireshow. Like fuck, damn good,
damn good. Great match, allfour guys shake hands and hug as they

(01:47:39):
are going to be uniting in tagteam form, eight man tag team form,
I should say ten I just lookedat the match because I was like,
what's the match. It's ten manbecause it's Roddy, the Briscoes and
war Machine Gene against A J.Gallows Anderson and the Bucks. Oh that
was the New York tag. That'sa hell of a ten man tag too.

(01:48:02):
Yeah, Like wow, that's onewe should watch at some point because
I think you'd like that show.All right, let me see what else
is on the show from the TedReeve that was a ted Reeve. I
was thinking this was New York,Tedderieve. Globe War is twenty fifteen.
We've got Gato and Moose against SilasYoung and Takaki one Want, Tanabe,

(01:48:26):
Kushita against Saban and O'Reilly, theKingdom against Liger and sidell Okada and Cedric,
the Addiction against the BJ and AdamPage Decade against her Puny Vice,
Shinsky and Kevin. Although it saysthis what else Shinsky and Kevin shinskan ah,

(01:48:50):
I'm just reading what's on the listing. Obviously these cannot have happened the
same time Lethal and Nido for theTV title, Tanahashi and Elgin and then
that ten in m R. Iremember what the are you reading that from
Cage match? Yes, well,the Shin Shinskan Kevin match was actually taped

(01:49:11):
on May seventeenth of twenty fourteen,so my guests as they probably used that
as the intermission match. Yes thatday, that one hundred percent correct.
I can remember that. Now theywonder now I'm curious what the Honor Club
feed looks like. Oh god,I always thinking the other day about that
show we watch where the intermission wasleft in the the Honor Club feed.

(01:49:34):
They didn't added out the half anhour intermission and the Honor Club feed.
That was good stuff. Yeah,maybe maybe we'll maybe we'll do a Global
Wars pole. Yeah, if there'ssome good aligns and after our best in
the world, some really really afterwe do yeah, after this, well,

(01:49:56):
you gotta pick Nathan up at schoolshortly. Well yeah, and yeah,
I got thirty forty minutes to thisup with the main events, especially
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this show and get it early.Become a paid for in today at pagereon
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(01:51:01):
started just a few bucks a month, and each tier comes with more bonus
perks like bonus content, merch andso much more. Support the show at
patreon dot com slash an Honorable podand get pearly add pre access and be
worthy of an honorable mention. We'vegot our Ring of Honor television title match

(01:51:23):
on the line. Here is JayLethal defense against Ruth Martini. Now well
he's with Truth Martini defending against KyleO'Reilly. I should say I'm trying to
rush into my Jay Lethal point abouthow like I was thinking about this,
I don't know of any like longterm top guy heel that stayed I mean

(01:51:53):
in the modern Sinclair era the wayJay Lethal did. Like Jay Lethal,
he was in the mid card,he was doing the baby face stuff,
and then he turned and he alignedwith Truth back at Supercard Supercard of Honor

(01:52:14):
eight, and he just kept movinghis way up toward the top of the
card, and eventually we know atthe end of the year he became the
world champion. Yeah, and thenwent on the run with both belts.
He was the best heel Like youwanted to boo him. You weren't cheering

(01:52:36):
him because he was good. Hewas great as an in ring performer,
but the combo with truth and theway he carried himself and then the quality
of his matches reflecting that bad guycharacter, it was. It was really

(01:52:58):
really good. And I don't thinkanybody else in the Sinclair era got to
that level or even close. Really, were there any trying to like Cole
being an established heel champion, butit was cheered because he's cool. Was

(01:53:30):
anybody else like an established heel championof this time frame, I mean,
not even like a heel top I'meven saying they have to be the world
champion. I'm just saying, like, I mean, yeah, because obviously
he's not the world champion, he'sa Stevie champ. But like top top
guy, it was nobody that everybodyelse had a cool factor to them because
they were you know, bullet clubor elite or you know something else.

(01:53:59):
And Lethal was on his own.He had truth as his manager. He
was a villain. He enjoyed it, he embraced it, he didn't run
from it. He did every chickenshit trick in the book and it worked.
And I really think like and justwas the weight of that big run

(01:54:25):
is enough to get him on thelist for the twenty twenty two Honorable Mentioned
Hall of Fame of on our clubit's a club, well, I mean,
you know, well then I thinkand at this point, you know,
the class of twenty twenty two,I should with it with him was
the TV champ um. I thinkthis is establishing, you know, the

(01:54:49):
bona fides to actually be that topguy because he got fair when he first
came back in twenty eleven. Well, he immediately got put into the TV
title picture. And then we didthat champion versus Champion Davey versus him match
at Homecoming twenty twelve in the archivesin the archives, and then you know,

(01:55:15):
kind of put him into that spotagainst Kevin for the world title.
Um in twenty thirteen. Was thattwenty thirteen? It was twenty thirteen.
Jesus, uh, good night,Jim. Twenty twelve, Yeah, twenty

(01:55:36):
twelve and twenty thirteen, both becausethey had the first match. Killer instinctly
did the rematch at the anniversary showin Chicago in the next year, but
like none of that, it feltless earned and more just being put into
that position. You know. Ifeel like by this point, you know,

(01:55:59):
three years is on, two yearsto two years on, he'd grown
into the role he's now occupying,and it's carried over and as a heel,
he's grown into that rule, He'sgrown into that role he's now occupying
as a champion and as a enddoing it as a heel as opposed to

(01:56:24):
somewhat feeling like the ill fitting babyface to Kevin, who was, contrary
to you know, who was thethe top baby face in the company,
contrary to traditional booking ideas, youknow, regardless of the fact that Kevin

(01:56:44):
was acting like a monster heel,he was being cheered like a monster baby
face, stone cold. He wasa stone cold baby face. I mean,
stone Cold wasn't threatening to burn thecompany to the ground and rebuild it
in his own image like stone Eric. Kevin steam was. He did he
did poor cement into Vince's corvette.Yeah, well it's that poor corvette.

(01:57:12):
Oh at least, but My pointbeing now at this point as a title
holder, as there's a much moreit feels comfortable, like, it feels
much more of a comfortable fit forJay than I think it did during his
first run with the TV title intwenty eleven. His confidence is so far

(01:57:35):
off the charts here, um,and I think that's kind of the great
you know, UM like aspect ofthis match, aside from the inner ring,
is the confidence in Jay Lethal pullingKyle O'Reilly up with him. He's

(01:57:57):
he's confident in his place is TVchampion and being an established guy, and
now it's time to take Kyle O'Reillywith him and bring him up and further
cement him as an established guy thatcan be a top guy. If that
makes any sense. Um, Iback, I'll just say back in Milwaukee,

(01:58:24):
Kyle did get the win over JayLethal in a champions Challenge match,
and that would be uh, youknow, Jay and Jay in this case
teaming to take on Red Dragon,and this got Kyle a TV title match.

(01:58:46):
So here we are, and Ilike that that was you know,
it makes sense. It's a naturalway to do it. You beat the
champions shot at the belt, evenif in a tag match. I like
that, so where you're supposed tobe very simple, very simple way to
get a title match, you know, to get a title match in there
without having to start having to plugsomething in it said, a very simple

(01:59:08):
way to get a title match withoutlike having to do a way to get
a title match without being, oh, here's a proving ground match, here's
the number one contender match, Likeit's here's a type of match we do
regularly. Anyway, if you geta follow over the champion, you know
we're going trying your method to getit. And I have to say,

(01:59:32):
I like the fact that it's alittle touch that you wouldn't notice necessarily up
unless you were closely inspecting. Orthe announcers kind of kindly pointed out the
TV title belt. Don't say TVtitle I was just getting ready to talk
about that. It just says ROSchampion on which firmly tells me that Lethal

(01:59:56):
is not just a TV champion inthe mid car or he's on his way
up, he's pressed the button tothe penthouse on the the Roh Elevator of
honor at this point, you know, I mean, it's what was it?
He was the longest reigning right televisionchampion. Yup. But I mean

(02:00:21):
and he had been reigning his championlonger than world champion. HM, so
you know why not Like, Hey, I'm the longest rain champion in this
company, I'm the champ, I'mthe champ. I'm the champelum. So
I guess getting into the match itself. Like there's some really great selling throughout

(02:00:44):
the whole match from Kyle selling hisarm. UM Like Lethal knows when to
call for truth to interfere. Kyleknows when that's coming and cuts it all.
Um. That allows Jay to dothat hanging armbar, which I am

(02:01:05):
a huge fan of. UM.Lethal's arm work, you know, his
selling of his own arm because weknow the arm bar is Kyle's go to
UM is tremendous. There's, youknow, the flurry of strikes from Kyle.

(02:01:26):
UM. Finally when he locks inthat hanging arm guillotine, UM,
you know, Lethal pulls him outand then does the Lethal combination for a
double down. UM. It's it'sjust a great back and forth. Even
Stephen wrestling match and Jay lost nothingas the top guy here. This match

(02:01:56):
is phenomenal. Like I was,I want to run it back. UM
now uh because we can you know, freak it can be run back on.
I would like even now that yesthere, I would like to run
this back now in twenty twenty twoand see how, you know, with
how each competitor has grown, howboth Jay and Kyle have grown as wrestlers,

(02:02:19):
and uh, I think would bea lot of fun to watch back
now. Um and there it wascertainly the ability to promo now yeah,
yes, and especially in that instanceKyle, like how much Kyle has grown?
Uh as a character who is youknow the bell rings a killer but

(02:02:45):
is a goof in so many ways? Uh in as a character, you
know, he's got a kind adorky as a character. You know.
Um, but I just I wouldlike to see just from an entering standpoint,
I love to see this back now. But for this it's like,
man, what a what a Ikind of this I think would qualify as

(02:03:09):
a bit of a hidden gem becauseI don't imagine on anyone's twenty fifteen you
know, Bingo cards Hopkins been aASDA match might be one of the best
matches of the entire you know yearfor the company, But from what that
seems to be, how this matchis looked at you know, for Ringamana
for the year, this is oneof the best matches that they had well,

(02:03:30):
and it's probably one of the lesserscene matches. Two. Considering this
card, well, like I said, it's a it's a card with no
new japan talent sandwiched in between youknow, the big WrestleMania weekend shows,
and you've got the Global Wars showscoming up, or Global Global War right
Global Wars coming up, Wars,You've got the end. This is kind

(02:03:54):
of just this random Conquest show Warof the worlds now Global Wars, the
Wars, and the War of theWards. So like, do you have
this Conquest show that sandwiched in betweenthe two The other Conquest shows were like
two months ago at this point,and yeah, I just think you look
at this show and think, ah, it's gonna be a air quotes house

(02:04:20):
show, and instead you get thissuperbly wrestled main event where both guys come
out looking better than they went in. Yeah, and Kyle Riley goes up
a couple of notches just based onthis performance alone in the eyes of Ring

(02:04:42):
of Honor fans, especially at thistime. I mean this the way lethal
helps get him going here it's tremendous, Like there's a spot where Jake goes
to the top to do the Haloof the King, but he's selling his
arms, so it's not exactly themost powerful elbows that he delivers, and

(02:05:08):
then it gets to count. Hegoes to the second rope for a superplex.
Uh. Kyle decides no superplex foryou, does the super arm bar
DDT while holding the foods you arearmbar. They go back up again.

(02:05:30):
Lethal counters a suplex to the tothe floor, which is a crazy bump.
He's trying everything he can to beatKyle, and Kyle will not stay
down. So O'Reilly gets back inat nine and three quarters and he is
telling telling Jay to hit him,and Jay hits him. They both start

(02:05:58):
swinging neither of them can and weget the accent smash from Kyle. That's
no sold superkick, no sold smash. Yeah, the elbow and the kick.
It's a red dragon move. Usuallyit takes two, but Kyle did
book parts. So then they dothe more no selling with the jawbreaker lariat

(02:06:25):
chasing the Dragon done solo from Kyle, O'Reilly Lethal kicks out Armageddon LaBelle Locke.
Lethal gets to the ropes, Weget the announcement of one minute left
and both guys collapse. The lethalinjection is countered in mid air to the

(02:06:45):
armageddon. We had five seconds left. Jay Lethal is just holding on for
dear life because the tie goes tothe champ and thirty minutes click click,
we have ourselves a draw. Whata match? Yeah yeah, um really

(02:07:09):
really strong match. But we arenot done yet. Um I this is
one of those matches that I wouldlove to see, you know, seven
years since it happened, people willbe able to watch again and like get

(02:07:32):
a higher profile, a little morelove, like you know in the with
where things have gone with Ring ofHonor, uh and how whatever it ends
up being whatever, how that peoplelook doesn't match. I think people need
need to see to look at andsee how people have grown, where they
came from and how they you know, especially in the case of like Lethal,

(02:07:54):
you know, how he grew,you know, it's been ten years
at this point in twenty fifteen sincehe was the Peer Champion, and how
he grew in the ten years sincethen into the TV Champion and how you
know, in the four years fiveyears since Kyle debuted, Like how he
grew in that time frame, andthen from where they are in twenty fifteen
to where they are in twenty twentytwo, Like this match is just a

(02:08:18):
wonderful What's what I'm looking for,Like wonderful microcosm of where they were at
this time and then just how muchbetter each man's got since well, and
I think you could look at thisshow is like a show where there's guys

(02:08:39):
that grew into legitimate main event guys. Hangman, that would be the other
Man, the other other, primeexample on the show of someone who how
much they've grown in the seven yearssince this show, and Roddy to a
lesser extent, I mean at thisI see I don't. I don't put
him in there because he's already soestablished. He's on a higher profile situation

(02:09:03):
now than he was in twenty fifteen. But I'm saying as a wrestler,
in twenty fifteen, Rody was aRady was as complete a wrestler as he
is now. You know, it'sjust now more people see it fair there
there. I don't think you're goingto see a huge, a huge like

(02:09:31):
change in twenty fifteen Ridy to twentytwenty two Roddy it's just refining. It's
just refining what was already there.Um. But I think in the case
of very much so with Hangman.But Kyle and Jay, you're there is
a growth as opposed to just arefinement. Yes, I would concur.

(02:09:56):
And after the match is over here, we're not done yet. The fans
are demanding five more minutes, whichis just tradition based upon a draw.
There should be five more minutes,and they're chanting man up at Jay Lethal.
Of course we know that is thehallmark chant of the Briscos who Jay

(02:10:18):
Lethal in the House of Truth arefeuding with. So I thought that was
very well done from the crowd.Bravo Hopkins and been chanted that Jay should
man up and continue the match,and Jay Lethal says, f you,
I'm out. And he did thiswith the ah match that went thirty minutes

(02:10:41):
in twenty fourteen. And as hegets to the ramp to go to the
backstage area, he is met byJay Briscoe himself and Lethal is, you
know, not willing to go fiveminutes with Kyle O'Reilly. So Jay Briscoe
says, fine, I'll defend theRing of Honor World title against them instead,

(02:11:05):
and they go fifteen seconds and Jaylethal attacks them both with the TV
title, So seeing it in contextinstead of just the numbers on the website,
I am perfectly okay with this becauseit's not an advertise made event.
It's Jay being a heel and screwingthe fans out of something that they weren't

(02:11:26):
expecting anyway, So it enhances Jay'scharacter, it enhances the story moving forward,
and they got a hall of amatch out of it before this surprise
that gets ruined before this, yeah, potential surprise that gets ruined. So
I am perfectly okay with the fifteensecond question that led to us watching this

(02:11:46):
show in the first place. Yep, and it was worth it. Mark
Briscoe, Bobby Fish, they makethe rescue, ODB makes her way out,
she puts Druth Martini through the table, and we go off into the
horizons. Here to end conquest toour twenty fifteen Hopkins with subtitle fifteen second.

(02:12:09):
We got a world title MAC buta fun show nonetheless. Yeah,
I really enjoyed some of the highlights, and um, the lows were low,
but you know that's kind of partfor the course in this era.
Um, this was this main eventthough that's the Chef's kiss. Yeah,

(02:12:33):
yep, Yeah, it's one ofthe one of the best things that I
can say that we've watched as faras a single match. It's one of
the best ones we watched in ina while. Yeah. I think that's
a fair statement. Um, it'sit's got so many layers to it and
accomplished so much so. Bravo toKyle and Jay for such an incredible TV

(02:12:56):
title main event when I think theother part of it that needs to be
acknowledged for the overall quality of thiscard minus a few exceptions you know mentioned
being sandwiched in between the big tentpole events for the company, No Bullet
Club, New Japan Elites, BTE, whatever influence on this show, which

(02:13:20):
draw the things that we're drawing thespotlight at the moment, m and it
No, I'd say Knox at Homeand three. Three matches are definite like
must to me. Three of thematches are absolute like MUSC matches, Roddy
and Silas being like a number,you know, a second tier one to

(02:13:43):
that an honorable mention, an honorablemention behind the tag match, the World
Title match, and the page match, and then you know Roddy gets the
Varrity gets the fourth slide in there. Um yeah, just I give this
a thumbs up. And if you'venever seen it in your honor clubs a
subscriber or a pat Patreon dot comback slash an honorable pod member. There

(02:14:13):
are ways. There's always a way. There's always a way. So having
said that, we do look aheadand we head over to social media and
you can find us on Twitter andInstagram at an Honorable Pod, Facebook dot
com back slash an Honorable Pod.I am on Twitter where I am complaining

(02:14:35):
about the Cleveland Guardians pitching staff asopposed to the actual offense, which has
been shockingly good. It's the pitchingstaff that has betrayed us. So I'm
at mister Jeff Schwartz zero if you'dlike to talk baseball or a w or

(02:14:56):
college sports recruiting, talk about mysecond booster shot, which, speaking of,
I do want to send well,which is out to my dad who
has COVID for a third time.Yeah. I don't know if I told
you, but yeah, he's yeah. And uh, that's also my Instagram

(02:15:18):
handle at mister job sports zero.Partner. Where can we find you on
the internet? Beside Googles. Ithought you're gonna say about your Instagram handle
ast my dad has COVID for thethird time, like you changed short Instagram
handle. No, he's he hasgot COVID a third time. He's vaccinated.
He is only one boost he toldus he had to. He forgot

(02:15:43):
he didn't get the second one yet, so hopefully he's feeling a little better
today. I'll be checking in onhim after we get off recording this episode.
So get well dad and wash yourhands. Please hello him God.
I am at hag It or inShane on Twitter and Instagram, Shane hag
It on Facebook. Also Code ofHonor book on Twitter, and make sure

(02:16:05):
you go to YouTube dot com Backslashan honorable mention podcast for our assorted YouTube
playlist, but most frequently our nonour wage matches of the week that I
tried to do on every Monday,sometimes on Tuesday. So upcoming events for
us next week is episode number twohundred for us, and I think we'll

(02:16:33):
talk more about it next week.But I just want to acknowledge and thank
you for participating in this show withme as not only my friend but business
partner and podcast co host. Thiswould not be possible, And I'm so
proud of what we've put together heretelling this story. Two hundred episodes Man

(02:17:00):
t Wild and two at A plussorry, two at P two hundred official.
And then we've got our fight nights, our fight nights, or you
know whatever UC calls. They're randomnon numbered events, our bus our bonus
content um. And then on topof all the stuff that you do on
Patreon, since I no longer havea disk drive and have yet to get

(02:17:22):
an external to use my personal library, did I look for my extra disk
drive for you? Speaking of,because I mean we conversated about it.
Whether or not you actually did it, I don't know, okay, So
I know I didn't send it,so it's in the house. You did
not send it to me, okay. Conversated about it, but I'll find
it. And the work you dofor on Patreon, and yeah, all

(02:17:46):
of this fun stuff that we getto do. So we're going to Japan
next week, Tokyo Summit. Wegot We're going to Japan where you get
to hear me bitch and complain fortwo hours about how I should have been
there for my birthday but I wasn't. And then night of Champions two thousand
and three, the Nights Samoa Joewins the Ring of Honor world title,
and my fandom and love for thiscompany goes from Annoine to A ten thousand

(02:18:15):
out of ten. So that'll bethe two oh one, and then the
Best in the World poll, we'lldo a Global Wars poll. We've got
still do Best in the World polewill come before that. Tools. Yeah,
we've got a lot of good stuffcoming your way here in an honorable
mention, But thank you for beingwith us. If you've been with us
since episode one, thank you.If you've been with us since episode number

(02:18:39):
one ninety nine and this is yourfirst you have a lot of catching up
to do. Good luck. Weare brought to you by the Creative Control
Network. Be sure of all.The head of the Creative Control Network,
the man who brings the show toiTunes and all the other streaming platforms were
available on mister Joe Phine. He'sat Jule and Ey through a d and

(02:19:00):
at the CC network one. Besure to follow our verified scientists of Sound.
Our astronaut of audio are pervyor Production, the Ace of Action figures,
the voice of video games of BassmasterGeneral, the technician of Trouble, the
best broadcast machine, and the awardwinning lout to Crack top advertisement. The
cleaner of audio, mister Zach Johnson. He's on Twitter and Instagram at Radio

(02:19:20):
ZT and he delivers us the bestintro and outro every single week, making
sure that we sound cooler than theother side of the pillow. Anyone with
information regarding the murder of my dearfriend Cardinal Sledge and his friend Kathryn Brown
on June fourth, twenty nineteen whenthe Rocky River Reservation is asked to please

(02:19:43):
call the Federal Breau of Investigation forthe City of Cleveland two one six six
two two six eight four two.Carnell and Kate were murdered between five or
four and five thirteen PM in theRocky River Reservation under the Rain Road Bridge,
which there's usually about ten thousand peoplein that area at one time in

(02:20:05):
that time frame. If you knowanything, I don't care how small or
how large it is, please contactthe FBI for City of Cleveland. There
is a renewed push, as thereusually is around the anniversary. Whether it
yields any information, I'm not optimistic, but hey, I mean, if

(02:20:28):
you have something and it leads toa conviction. You're going to get one
hundred thousand dollars. And I don'tknow about you, but pretty much everybody
I know could use one hundred grandright now. So help out, solve
a crime, help families get justice, help our friends get justice. And
Mistress Sledge michell Lot having said thatthere is only one thing left to do,

(02:20:52):
and that is to quote the honorableMayor of an honorable mention Surinaro,
no need to trip out. It'stime to dip about, slap the porpoise.
This one is over. We're out. Be kind to one another,
keep your chin up, happy,everything until the next episode. Can take
my commentary out of the event,because I don't want to have anything to

(02:21:13):
do with it. What I'm fuckingabortion. I see trees so green,
red roses to I see them blue, fucking you, and I think to
myself, what I wonderful? Isees sky so blue, so white,

(02:21:54):
the right, blessed day, thedog sacred night, and I think to
myself, what I wonderful? Thecolors of the rainbow so pretty in the

(02:22:18):
sky, A parcel on the facesare people going by. I see friends
shaking hands, saying how they're reallysaying. I I hear Bigger's crown,

(02:22:43):
I want slim growl. They arelike much moved then I never knew.
And I think to myself, whatI wonderful? Yeah? So I think

(02:23:07):
to myself, what I wonderful,Yeah,

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