Episode 205: Brian Bellinger (Presented by Patreon.com/AnHonorablePod)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This is an Honorable Mention with JeffSchwartz and Shane Haggedorn, part of the
crab Control networking podcast. It's Tuesday. You know what that means. Happy
too for Tuesday and welcome to anotherchapter of an Honorable Mention, The Essential
Ring of Honor retrospective podcast covering themost successful independent wrestling promotion of this generation.

(00:24):
I'm your host, Jeff Schwartz.I'm delighted to be here and still
officially on paternity leave. Is myco host, our expert analyst, the
head of logistics, elite wrestling contentprovider and operation specialist, the Mayor of
merchandise, the Warrior of the wayBack Machine, King of Cage Match and
Code of Honor author Ring of Honoralumni Shane Haggenhorn. This is where the

(00:49):
booze would be inserted for Shane Haggedornbecause he's a heel. Shane not here
this week again. He is stillhelping missus Haggedorn in the process of now
having two children in the house andhopefully all is well in hagorn Land.
I have been in contact with himand sounds like everything is going well as

(01:14):
can be. Hopefully more positives aheadfor the Hagitorn Family. Today is an
interesting episode because before we started tapingthis show, when I'm taping this on
August the fifth, I have nevermet our guests today. I have never
as far as I'm aware, I'venever met our guest today, Brian Bellinger.

(01:40):
I also have never spoken to Brianthat I am aware of, So
today's going to be an interesting show. Brian helped out a lot of the
New York City events and has quitequite a set of stories to tell.
So when I throw it to theinterview here at the end of the usual

(02:00):
spiel, I have no idea whatwe'll talk about today. There are probably
stories that I have never heard beforethat will be revealed unto me. Brian
is of course set to us throughHagenorn, and so thanks to Hagorn forgetting
us a guest here as we do. Another honorable journey episode from another person

(02:23):
who helped out shows and kind ofwas in the mix for the crew and
knew what it was like to bea part of the process of the show.
And I think personally for me,as I've gotten a little older,
I really don't care about the minuteby minute the show itself. Like I'm

(02:49):
all for great matches and stories andinterviews and angles and things of that nature.
But as far as the most fascinatingan intriguing portion of professional wrestling,
I would say the process of setup, put together, run through,

(03:10):
and then tear down do it allover again is far more fascinating than anything
that occurs on your television screen orin front of you during the course of
an event at a live show.So we'll talk about that with Brian and

(03:30):
we'll throw to that here once wego through our plugs. I want to
remind everybody you can support the show. There's daily content dropping, daily dumps
over patreon dot com backslash and HonorablePod. That's Patreon dot com backslash an
Honorable Pod, get in for aslow as four dollars a month, and
if you'd like DVDs for my personalcollection, all sorts of other cool gifts.

(03:55):
I am currently solely based of lastweek the last episode's interview with Chris
from my VP videos, consolidating everythingin my collection to digital hard drives,
and that means there's gonna be waymore awesome kick ass content for you guys
if you sign up the Patreon dotcom backslash an honorable pod. You can

(04:19):
email us at an honorable mention atgmail dot com, and all two hundred
and five episodes plus some bonus stuffis available in the archives over at an
Honorable mention dot wixsite dot com backslashMaine. That's an honorable mention dot wix,
si te dot com backslash Maine.We are brought to you by the

(04:41):
Creative Control Network. Be sure tofollow the head of the Creative Control Network,
mister Joe Peeney. He is onTwitter at julef w any Y three
r D and at the CC networkone for all the latest news and notes
on a Creative Control Network. Besure to follow our verified scientist of Sound,
our astronaut of audio, our purveyorproduction, the Ace of Action Figures,

(05:03):
the voice of video games, thebassmaster General, the technician of Trouble,
the best broadcast machine, the awardwinning autocrat of advertisement, the cleaner
of audio. Mister Zach Johnson.He's on Twitter and Instagram at Radio ZT
and he delivers us the best introand outro every single week, making sure

(05:25):
that we sound cooler than the otherside of the pillow Fight Pro is getting
ready to bring a new professional wrestlingstyle to the independent scene. A progressive
and innovative approach to combat sports.Fighters converge and compete under the Fight philosophy,
a strict code of conduct featuring threeset divisions, a tier system,

(05:46):
and a seasonal structure. Fight Prois getting ready for their debut event in
Westville, New Jersey, at theSKA Entertainment Center Saturday, September The ten
tickets are on sale now. Seetalent like the Professional ret Titus Delirious,
Anthony Bennett, Gabby Orts, theWorld Famous CB and many more. For

(06:10):
more information on Fight Pro Wrestling,go to fight pro dot com. That's
fight with two ts f I gH T t pro dot com and find
out more about Fight Pro Wrestling's debutevent Saturday, September the tenth in Westville,
New Jersey. Want to hear thead free version of this show and

(06:31):
get it early. Become a paidfor in today at patreon dot com slash
an armable pod. If you becomea patron, you'll get early and add
free access to the show with severaltiers to choose from that started just a
few bucks a month, and eachtier comes with more bonus perks like bonus
content, merch, and so muchmore. Support the show at patreon dot

(06:54):
com slash an armable pod and getearly ad free access and be worthy of
an honorable mention. Well, let'sdive into it. He's worthy of an
honorable mention, proudly presented by paredot com backslash an Honorable Pod. Welcome
to the show, Bryan Beldinger,Hey, thank you for having me.

(07:15):
Well, as I said in theintro that I pre taped, we have
never met as far as I amaware. No, I can't recall either.
Of course, there have been alot of people over the years that
I have crossed passed with, andI couldn't name probably half of them,
unfortunately, because I'm hey, I'mship with names and beiges, you know,
just too many people flying, youknow, one after the other.

(07:40):
But yeah, well, and it'sfunny because I'm very much a face.
If I see a face, I'mvery good with remembering people's faces and maybe
not their name, but like,oh, I remember this face from X
or I arber this face from whyAnd as we're talking like I got nothing
here, it's uh, And itsucks because I feel like, you know,

(08:05):
we're both very close and and haveassociated with the same people at the
same time, and somehow we're we'reparallel lines in our lives. Sometimes things
just don't line up right, butuh, welcome, we're here now.
So so let's talk about um startingout kind of your your wrestling fandom.

(08:30):
UM, not necessarily like going backto childhood, but because everybody you know
discovers the WF for WCW, butum, was it ECW for you?
Uh no? Um? And itdoesn't actually go all the way back to
it goes to high as far ashigh school pretty much late bloomer as far
as wrestling. Um, it kindof started with WCW. UM. It's

(08:56):
kind of a weird story, likeI had failed miserably in my transition from
general English to Honors English, andto this day, I'm not really sure
why because we were on semester classesand English had ended by that point.
But then my dad decided I neededto avoid the distractions or something I guess,
and cut off the cable so wehad local channels and TBS, so

(09:18):
you can see what my options wereat that point. This was like ninety
nine. But in watching that fora while, kind of in guilty pleasure
mindset, and occasionally see, ohmysterio just did something cool, and then
starting to take a liking to it, and then the smack and the one
off SmackDown happened and it's like,hey, this is more like an a

(09:39):
show. And you know, thatkind of hooked me over to WWE,
and I think, like I guessit was a year later ish when Mike
Awesome bailed on ECW and Taz wentback there, and that put that on
my radar. Started watching that kindof gradually, and then when I went
off to college, met up withsome people. I would watch w W

(10:01):
pay per views half at the timeand ECW pay per views for as long
as they lasted. Um went toa house show in Schenectady. UM saw
Scott Hall there though, like theone of I guess maybe two appearance as
he put in for ECW. Yeah, that was pretty cool. Had great
entrance music, the Fuji's. Yeah. So so with with WWF, W

(10:24):
CW, ECW, everybody kind ofyou know, merging into one, you
know, in two thousand and one, and I happened to be at the
raw where they bought WCW in Marchof oh one in Cleveland, and you
know, naturally like the Invasion storylineand the subsequent Invasion pay per view that

(10:48):
took place in Cleveland as well thatI was at like it it fell short
for me, so I went atthat point, I was tape trading for
a couple years, but I reallydove into tape trading like Summer of O
one and started looking at the Independenceand it totally changed my mindset as to

(11:13):
what wrestling could be or you know, maybe felt more authentic to me than
what I was seeing on TV.So when Ringing of Honor started in February
Vote two, I was head overheels. So for you kind of coming
in to the Attitude end of theAttitude era and into kind of everything becoming

(11:37):
WWE. How did you find theIndependence? Uh? Yeah, yeah.
Dabbled on the internet here and there, um, excuse me, just news
sites and whatnot. I had.One of my college friends was a tape
trader, got turned onto All Japannineties All Japan, uh Kabashi, Massawa,

(12:01):
Kawata and the like, um youknow, on like weekend, would
grab a room and on campus andpop in a tape and watch the stuff.
And like the first match I sawof All Japan just blew me away
like forty minutes. I was like, that took that long, That felt
like nothing and as for just asintense as it was too, So that

(12:26):
turned me onto that kind of style. One of the other tapes he had
was like a best of Curryman tapewhich put Chris Daniels on them on my
radar, and yeah, I thinkover the summer of O two, I
went to see that inaugural MLW showout in Philly, which they were kind
of selling like ECW style. Ofcourse, that promotion didn't really pan out

(12:52):
as well as I had hoped,at least not in terms of Philly,
and then sometime later I kind offound Bring of Honor, like the Final
the first Final Battle. I sawsomething for it on I guess a news
site and I was like, okay, sounds good, I'll go. And
that was a great show. Soa Final Battle two thousand and two,

(13:15):
Yes, your first show. Um, that always intrigues me because that was
before I started going to live shows. Um, I would have been a
soft more in high schools oh two. Yeah, it would have been a
sophomore in high school, so youknow, driving to Philly wasn't exactly an

(13:35):
option. Um, yeah, butthe idea of like early days r OH
I was buying the tapes keyword beingtapes, the VHS tapes and then eventually
converted over to DVD uh later on. But like, what was that like

(13:58):
because that was so drastically different fromwhere ROH was even a mirror two years
later. God, I mean itwas so long ago too, um,
twenty years exactly. Est I feelold. Um, it's a common theme

(14:22):
on this show. Yeah. Uh. I mean obviously, as many people
will now, it was trying tofill the void of ECW and I mean
obviously without the hardcore elements at leastas anywhere near as much. But it
was just really intense and just sittingringside watching Paul London did the shooting star

(14:48):
press off the ring post and theXavier not quite catching him and him just
on the floor, it was justmind blowing. There there have been people
that I've talked to describe that soundas being everlasting because they can instantly recall
it. And for those out therethey don't know, there was no like

(15:11):
fancy ramp or you know, paddingor anything. It was Jim flour.
I don't think they didn't even havepads around the ring, I don't think
from what I recall, no,no, and they had those guardrails with
this channel chain link fence and thelike brick to weigh it down, um,

(15:33):
the brick stanchions, so like ourwage over the years, once Carrie
bought it and you know, becamethe majority owner, even prior to March
of four. Um, you know, you're you're in the thick of it.
You're going to multiple shows between FinalBattle and oh yeah, pretty much

(15:58):
as as much as I could get, um, you know, pretty much
any time they were in Philly,with a few exceptions. I think I
went to the first Anniversary show.I didn't start regularly going to New York
for a while, so yeah,I guess it was pretty much just Philly
for first few years. But whichwas a lot of the shows of course,
but well they started in Jersey.But yeah, so yes, with

(16:22):
the first anniversary show, we haveto talk about the quote unquote riot.
I suppose we should. Yeah,Um, you know, I don't know
if you listen to the episode thatwe had with Tree, but he talked
about being in the upper balcony atthe first Anniversary show and thinking what he

(16:45):
was seeing was real and like actingas the protector and you know, standing
in front of people and making sureeverybody was safe and whatnot. Even up
there thinking maybe this was a workthat had gotten out of control. What
were your life perspectives on this stuff? Where were you at in comparison everything?

(17:07):
I was on the floor second row, um, like next to the
entrance way. I wasn't really surewhat to think it for for a while
for a bit there, um likeafter everything had calmed down and like homicide
was starting to yell at maybe itwas Feinstein or whatever, um, but
it was like, you're blame thison me or whatever. I was like,

(17:27):
okay, that much is work probably, um. But yeah, it
was just yeah, it was definitelya little overwhelming to watch that, and
it's like not knowing what the hellwas going on? Did I like stay,
should I get the fuck out?But yeah, it was that was

(17:52):
that was That was probably the oneof the more insane things I've been a
part of in wrestling, to besure. Fairly early on, I remember
like after it happened, you know, the infancy of the message board was
kind of around that point. Andwell, we'll talk about the message board
here in a second, because I'mreal curious if you were a poster or

(18:14):
a frequent visitor at least, butwith that like moment, like Mike Johnson
was there, so you know thearticle at that point, it was one
Wrestling dot com that he was writingfor and they talk about that. I'm
pretty sure like Wade Keller got directfeedback from Gabe on it and you know,

(18:41):
reported on it in the Torch.The just the perspectives from so many
people on what exactly it was madeit a must buy a videotape absolutely,
I mean at that point it wasa DVD, but like a must buy
you have to see this, likeas soon as it's on the website,
boom ad decart, wait six weeksif not longer, and it will be

(19:07):
sent to you like a ton ofattention. Yeah. And there's also you
know the great matches on the showwith like three the three Way with AJ
London and Key and then j Londonand Key and then then London, London
and Xavier for the title. Uhwith Paul winning that through. I'm pretty

(19:33):
sure that's what it was. Um. But you know, like Samoa Joe
is prevalent there. He and Danielsonhad a great match on that show Homicide
and Carino Um the Obvious into Riot, the cluster fuck uh scramble that went

(19:56):
forty five minutes. I I neverthought I'd get tired of watching people do
flips over and over again, althoughI suppose it did happen. Went on
for a little while, just abit, just a bit, and you
know, it was the ultimate scramble, so that if something is the ultimate,

(20:18):
it should be the final, neverto be done again. And then
they put it in a cage.It's just like those early days were so
stand out. It was different thana Jersey All Pro or a CGW or
for me, I would watch alot of IW in it souad even you

(20:42):
know, the early days of PWG, which had no lighting and no sound
and no like buzz or energy fromthe crowd, but good wrestling with some
of the same people. It justfelt like Ring of Honor was not just

(21:04):
an independent, it was bigger thanan independent. Yeah that sounds I mean
I didn't have a whole lot tocompare it to. Myself pretty much found
Ring of Honor and stuck with it, found my niche, and you know,
I was happy with it. Butyep, it was certainly good a

(21:25):
damn good show. Well, soyou mentioned going to Jersey and Philly and
eventually New York and onward, andwas it like for me? I always
kind of unit it as more ofan addiction to keep I needed the next
thing, like I had to goand I can't wait six weeks for a
DVD I must drive. Was itlike that for you too? I suppose

(21:52):
you could put it like that,But that that I think there's certainly an
element of seeing it in person.The DVD doesn't do it the same level
of justice. You know, asalong with a lot of things, wrestling
is definitely one of those things.Um, I could name a handful of
other things, but it's just theexperience of being there, having that stuff

(22:15):
in your face to varying degrees oreven as far as in your lap on
occasion. But yeah, like muchlike yeah, with concerts and everything like
that, it's it's like the crowdenergy adds a lot to it that you
don't always get from a recording.Well, that's the one thing that I

(22:38):
always found that I really respected aboutCarrie Soaken more so as the as a
promoter, was that he wanted theconcert vibe for a wrestling show. And
the lighting, the smoke, theyou know, louder entrance music. I

(22:59):
don't, I don't know if youknow. You may not have had the
comparisons, but other indie shows likeI would go to locally, the sound
system suck. Like you didn't knowwhat music people had with Ring of Honor.
You knew that Austin Aris was comingout to Personal Jesus, you knew
that Samoa Joe was coming out tothe champions Here. You knew that Brian

(23:23):
Danielson was coming out to Offspring likeand then eventually and then eventually Final Yeah,
eventually you know Final Countdown and aries, you know, eventually changed the
wheezer grace man that ever lived.And I mean the wrestlers Brisco's give me
back my Bullets. The music andthe wrestler were in sync. And when

(23:48):
we did the music episode way backin the Archives and Wayne and Mary were
on, they talked about how importantthe music and the wrestler were needing to
sync together, like they came asa package. Um and breaking away from
Ring of Honor. Also in theglass shattering, yeah, I mean,

(24:11):
do you smell what the rock iscooking? Like? You know the first
few beats of whatever you think awhole coogan, you know, the real
American song m you know, thethe whatever, the graduation, march,
pop and circumstance, thank you formacho man like you know those, and

(24:33):
they go with the wrestler. Andthat's what Ring of Honor did so much
more successfully than just a random inthe shold. Punk and Missouria contare perfect
example. Oh God, the intensityof that is I mean, I mean,
I think that was the best entranceof anybody. You had the build

(24:57):
up, the payoff of him walkingout just slowly, and then the walk
down the ramp or down the aisleway. I guess, well they had
a little bit of a ramp atsome point, I guess yeah, And

(25:17):
you know, and then and thenthe banging on the guard rails and that
interaction that play between the crowd andthe wrestler. It fit. And even
when Punk would stop and yell intothe camera, he always knew where the
camera was. Um. It justit was perfect. It made Ring of

(25:38):
Honor bigger than But one of theother things that I think truly helped establish
Ring of Honor is something bigger thanwrestling on the independent level, was the
way fans interacted with one another.You had fan gatherings where people would come

(26:00):
in from out of town to citiesand stay at all the same hotels and
they would get to know the wrestlers. You know, I'm just one of
many that had that fortune. Andpeople would volunteer after the shows to help
out and before the shows to helpout. And there was also the message

(26:22):
board. Were you on the messageI can't say I was. I didn't
do a lot. I've never beenone to actively post a lot online.
Good for you this day, Goodfor you because that As grateful as I

(26:42):
am about the message board and thepeople that I became lifelong, almost twenty
year friends with on that board,I'm not I can't look back at it
and totally be happy with my behaviorand how my passion for our age came

(27:06):
out. Let's just say so.You would be kind of the exception to
the rule then, because there wereall, I would say, like the
vast majority of people, including peoplein that locker room add accounts on that
message board. Yeah, well,unfortunately unfortunately or unfortunately, yeah, I'd

(27:33):
missed out on all the excitement.I just it probably was. I mean,
you know, like those early days, especially the shows that you weren't
able to go to you know,were you refreshing like a website to get
live results or were you just kindof all get them tomorrow or whenever they're

(27:53):
posted usually just whenever whenever I gotaround to it, or if I well,
I guess I don't suppose I couldhave wound up getting the tapes in
time before the next show that Iwas at necessarily, So yeah, there's
no month turn those early days,especially um for you though, what made

(28:18):
your choice to travel? Um?What was it that drove you to say
I want to go to all ofthis or as much as possible. Well,
I, well, I live inlike a more not not remote area,
but it's I live in like themiddle of everywhere. I live in

(28:41):
like Harrisburg, PA Ish area,So I'm like in the middle of Philly,
Baltimore, New York, Pittsburgh.It's like two to three hours from
everywhere. So anytime I want todo anything, being a concert, a
wrestling show. I mean, WWEcame to Hershey still does not that I
cared a whole lot about them atthat point, but you know, I

(29:03):
was already like driving two three hoursfor concerts and whatnot, and you know
it's uh, you know, thewrestling was making me happy to watch it,
so it's start going on more ofthem. And you know, New
York isn't wasn't that much farther thanJersey for me as it was first traffic
of course, but you know,more expandiment to park your car as well.

(29:29):
Yes, just as coach. Ionly made the drive to New York,
I think forree three or four times, and I finally just said,
I'm good at why this is ridiculous? Um when it costs you know,
two hundred dollars over the span oflike twenty four hours to park a car.

(29:55):
Yeah, you just you know youparked it. I wanted to part.
I wanted I drove, I stayedhotel, one of my car closed.
I didn't want to put it insome random lot that I didn't know
if it was gonna be able toget out that next day to go home.
Especially like in those early days,I was not telling my parents where

(30:15):
I was going. I still livingat home. So oh, you have
no idea, So the rex flax, Let's let's talk about driving to Jersey.
Okay, So I live I livean hour south of Cleveland. I
live in Kenton, Ohio. ThePro Football Hall of Fame is literally a
stone stir from my front door,So it was a bit of a hike

(30:37):
for you, to say the least. Yeah, yeah, it's about in
a seven and a half fish driving. And I had a car that had
great gas mileage. It was atwo thousand and two Toyota Corolla. Um
so a very good first car.But you know, we get to March
of O four and it's like Joeand Jay Briscoe in the cave age and

(31:00):
it's the first show and the rexPlex and it's it's wild, like I
gotta go to this. Oh whenthey're doing a card during the day and
oh, Dusty Rhodes is on theshow, and oh the owner just got
caught, you know, soliciting uhsex online. So is there gonna be

(31:22):
a show? And then I madethe decision like a couple of days beforehand
to I was on spring break.I told my parents, I'm gonna go
stay watched you know, the NCAAbasketball at my friend's house for the weekend.
You know, nca tournaments going on. So perfect excuse and nope,

(31:45):
that car drove the jersey. Tothis day, I don't think they know,
but that's why they don't listen tothis podcast. But you know,
like that was the first show forme. So like Dayton, they went

(32:05):
in October in August of oh threefor Wrath of the Racket. They went
to Wilmington in January of oh four, which is a little west of Dayton.
I should know where it is.It's in my own state, but
Jim Cornett didn't know where it was. So yeah, um, but I

(32:27):
had to go see this title matchin the cage, like I had.
So I made the drive and itwas great, met a lot of really
awesome people and started networking. Um, you know, as a guy.
I was sixteen two thousand and four. Uh see eighty five to four hold

(32:52):
on ninth nineteen, So I hadn'teven I hadn't graduated high school yet at
nineteen year, I haven't graduated highschool. Wait eighty five to March of
oh four. But I graduated eighteen, Yeah, I grading on time of
year, it might be eighteen.Yeah. I graduated in June of oh

(33:14):
four, and I was Yeah,I would have turned eighteen in October of
oh three, so I was eighteen. I was eighteen my birthdays in October,
so Uh, well, this iswhy I don't have a degree in
anything revolving around math. It's therunning joke of my life. You know,

(33:38):
I got a younger brother who's fouryears younger than me, and he
tutored me in math, so incollege as well. But uh so,
you know, I'm I'm eighteen andI'm driving to Jersey. I'm still living
at home, I'm in high school. I'm on spring break and I gotta
see Joe and Jay in the cage. Were you were there for that?

(34:02):
I was lost on the rex Plexbecause everybody loves it. Yeah, I
always like the Rexplex is just youknow, nice convenient, well right off
the highway ish and you know,nice space for them to have to set
up and all. Um, thatMath match was a blood bath, to

(34:22):
be sure, absolutely, but yeahthat that uh definitely established Jay as a
certifiable tough guy to be and heis. Yeah, kept going that.
Yeah, I mean it's incredible tothink, you know, all those years

(34:45):
ago that Jay was the one gettingthe big singles push and always you know,
getting the fall and the Briscoes match, and then when they lose,
Mark would be pinned, and herewe are twenty years later. And then
it's still the case, I suppose. So, yeah, Mark Briscoe gets
no Love, I Love, ILove, I Love the Guy and Albody.

(35:07):
Yeah through through three bookers. Imean he never held a singles title.
Jay was the world champion multiple times, you know, tag champs.
There were six man champs with BubbaRay Dudley. Yeah, you know,
in the forgettable period of twenty seventeen. I think whenever, I like,

(35:34):
I can't keep track of every factingfigure. But so of the venues that
you were at in kind of theearly days, what were what were your
some of your favorites and then somememories from those those favorite venues, uh,
I mean you know obviously the rexPlex stands out. Yeah, that

(36:00):
that that was kind of interesting,like how the way they had it set
up, like the backstage area likeyou could kind of walk around like before
the show and just like they hadthe curtain set up and then just like
nothing really blocking off the backstage area. Ya. So I think, um,
whatever show it was, they hadthe scramble cage, I think the
first scramble cage, the second ScrambleCage, I think it was. I

(36:24):
think I guess I can't keep trackof any of this stuff anymo was November
of oh three, Yeah, yeah, it was. It was the other
Scramble, the second Scramble Cage ourBest yeah, which is Joe and Jay.
Yes. So yeah, I'm justwalking around like they're they're in the

(36:46):
ring like kind of screwing around.I'm just kind of back there peeking at
it. Uh So, little thingsyou can only do at certain venues.
So I mean, there was likethe early show and then I had nothing
better though. Yeah, you hadthe convention card early in the day and

(37:07):
Dusty in the Ox Baker confronted oneanother. And as I was saying,
like, that's the most frequent thingthat people take away from that convention card,
and everybody brings up they don't bringup one match that took place on
the convention card. It's Dusty andOx Baker. Yeah, that I probably

(37:30):
about the same. That's the onething I remember definitively, of course,
sitting like ringside right by the entranceway, and as they were kind of having
their altercation and making their way acrossoutside the guardrail right across in front of
me, you know, just kindof verbally sparring and Ox kind of threatening

(37:50):
him with the whip at all andDusty hopping in the rain cutting the promo
in his white shirt, and then, um, so I guess at this
point like you're not helping out afterand before the shows yet, are you
correct? Not? That that wasnot until later on? So during this

(38:15):
point, like who who are yourreasons to go to these shows? Like
who are you looking forward to seeingmost on every car your favorites? I
mean Punk was still around for whendid he leave? It was definitely at

(38:36):
August of O five, and thenhe suddenly returned in February of oh six.
Yeah, um, okay, wellPunk, Dragon, Fallen Angel Homicide
was great. Joe, did Isay Joe already? I don't think I
did. Um Briscos is you knowDominal Tag Team? Um? Trying to

(39:05):
remember when Generation Next came into intobeing May in the Tent yep, yep,
mobilizing the military kick us out?Yeah, that that was. That
was a definitely a hell of afaction. Um. You know, months

(39:29):
aries kicked Shelley as the group tookover one the belt and then he was
just often running. So so you'renot in the belief like I am,
that that whole title match never happened. And was unjustly finished. And Joe
is still in fact a lot ofworld champion. Uh now now I'm I'm

(39:52):
I'm willing to have things move on. I maintain all these years later he
has never penned kicked out error inthe referee. But that's just because I
think Austinaries in recent years is reallyYeah, that second total run that he

(40:14):
had was I don't know if itwas one of the worst decisions in Ring
of Honor history, but it certainlyis not in the positive category. Yeah.
He uh, he certainly you know, alienated people over the years,

(40:37):
certainly more recently, but uh,you know, I mean as a fan
in those days, you know,I certainly wasn't privy to any kind of
awkwardness that his you know, hispersonality might have exuded or whatever. So
you know, I as far asa wrestler, he was always I thought

(40:58):
he was always great. Oh yeah, totally. He's you know, mount
you know, Hall of Fame worthy. You know, when we do our
honorable mentioned Hall of Fame of Honor, you know he's in, he's included,
He's already been inducted. And Ido believe the year he went in,
he was the highest vote getter.UM, so you know, definitely

(41:21):
a worthy contender for Hall of Fame. But UM, when you think about
like that time frame, do youremember like a switch where it felt like
ROH took a step forward from fromthose early days, Like do you think
it was the at our best showand that you know, rex Plex was

(41:46):
kind of like the next step.I have a real hard time pinning it
down to like a specific moment.The company evolved definitely gradually, piece by
piece. I mean, you know, a certain point they started upgrading the
lighting um and production values and thenand yeah, I mean the like the

(42:15):
roster was continued and even till theend of ROH as it was um this
past year. Um, it wasconstantly evolving. So like every everything's always
influx and wrestling, UM, there'sno like I mean, I guess you

(42:35):
know in like ww world, there'slike kind of a hard reset at WrestleMania.
UM, and you know Ravanor hadthat in I guess Final Battle usually,
UM, kind of I couldn't giveyou a just I don't know that
I could give you a specific eventor something. I mean, I always

(42:58):
feel like obviously a changing of theguard at World Champion is a kind of
a tent pole moment of change asfar as the story goes. But there
were people that came in, peoplethat came out. I mean, it
was a constantly evolving roster for thebetter part of those early years. And

(43:20):
you know those shows. I wouldsay from the very beginning it Air of
Honor begins in February about two twotrue, I would say probably the end
of two thousand and seven, theFinal Battle of seven and then the respect
is or not respect is earned,but rising above pay per view taping double

(43:44):
Shot at the Manhattan Center. Ialways kind of group that time frame,
like that five year period. There'sone kind of era, and then you
got into early o eight and therewere things that it didn't feel as like

(44:07):
fresh. There were there were thingsthat were great. I mean, granted
you were having great shows all overthe place, but there were things that
just felt stagnant. And then obviouslyGabe is removed in October of eight and
Adam Pierce takes over. And Ihave a ton of respect for Adam and

(44:30):
I am a huge fan of himas a wrestling performer. I think I
might be one of the very fewthat was like, man, this guy
is such a pleasant refresh because hedoesn't do every single solitary move in the
universe, and I love the Memphisterritory. So I was pretty optimistic when

(44:55):
he took over, although I wassad that Gabe was gone. Um,
I don't know. I mean,it was that time period of the first
ten months of two thousand and eightwith the faction warfare. Um, everything

(45:15):
seemed to be all over the place. Yeah, when you say that,
I think that that sounds about right, um tony two. Yeah, like
the number of factions, it wasjust the way the way it's like,
I guess Generation Next split up andthen every single one of them started their

(45:37):
own faction and except Matt Seidel orAlex Shelley. True, Yeah, when
did when did he uh not sellout but buy into the embassy? It
was that that wouldn't that would havebeen before Generation Next split up, because
you know that was not long afteryou got kicked out, yep. And
that was the feud. It wasShelley and Radio Abyss and Nana against Jen

(46:00):
Next. You know, they hada really great eight man in Buffalo Buffalo
Stampede. They had the Steelcage Warfarein uh Basketball City, which I think
we should talk about since I justbrought it up. Um as Hago Run

(46:22):
would say, fuck Basketball City.I never had the pleasure. Oh there's
no pleasure in basketball. It isarguably the worst venue in the history of
Ring of Honor, at least ofthat era. So thank god they found

(46:45):
the Grand Ballroom and then eventually theHammerstein. Yeah, it's that. That
was the real Like, I don'tknow. That was another moment where I
was just like WHOA was walking intothe Grand ball Room for verse time and
just kind of looking around and lookingup and thinking, Wow, there are

(47:08):
infinite possibilities. Oh, in thenight before we were in a tent with
rain lots of reason. Yeah,So I guess like the seven o eight
period you mentioned me, Oh eightwas kind of when you started helping out.

(47:31):
Yeah, actually, like Final Battleof seven, bumped into a friend
from college who had kind of beendoing the same thing and just planted the
seat in my head because like,like back in high school and in college,
I'd like to work behind the scenes, Like in high school with the
musicals ran the sound was in thesound club and throughout college and I always

(47:52):
like kind of working the production stuff, And I was like, oh,
okay, and like I had apipe dream of maybe trying to get involved
in something, you know, concertrelated, which never panned out. I
never really went out of my wayto try and make it pan out,
of course, so made it easyfor it to not pan out. But
it's like, you know, I'mgoing to these shows. I'm pretty much

(48:13):
killing most of the day anyway,and I feel like I'm completely wasting the
day, like dick around before Igo to the shows and then go home,
go to bed. Maybe I couldat least feel productive. So,
you know, the movie taping rolledaround. I went to that and I
was like, I actually Final Belloseven was a two night There was like

(48:36):
an after party after the first one. That and my buddy college buddies went
down to met a few of thering crew guys. And then it's like
just went to the movie, stayedafter and helped him tear down until everything
was on the trucks and the likecalled times such and such next morning,

(48:57):
and I was like, I don'thave anything better too, so yeah,
of course, and I showed up. Then I can always like, dude,
come back anytime. Yeah, SoI would help as much as I
could. In the Midwest, youknow, Dayton, Chicago, Detroit,
New York was always kind of hardfor me because I would go to the

(49:21):
greg age parties afterwards, and thosetended to bleed into when I would fly
home the next morning, because Ialways like the early flights early as humanly
possible out of New York to gethome and then I can just sleep the
Sunday away and then go to collegeon Monday and work as well. So

(49:49):
I guess, first of all,how is Shane as a boss? Shane
Shane was great. Yeah, He'sjust very very welcoming, at least to
me. Uh. You know,maybe see people once in a while get
a little mouthie and you know,I saw a guy get duct taped over
his mouth. Um. Uh.You know, if some of the younger

(50:15):
kids would show up late, they'duh get uh you know, yeah,
I don't want to you know,make this sound like anything. I withhold
some of the details, but youknow, they got there, they're talking
to or whatever. Um you know, he he he would uh. You

(50:37):
know, he was very respectful tome. Um. If I had been
a pain in the ass, heprobably would have given it to me.
Um. Yeah, he he didwhat he needed to do to get the
show going so well, and Ithink that's to me, one of the
things I respect about the person behindShine haga Orn the most is that he's

(51:00):
one of the most well organized andthorough people that I know. And you
know, he's a couple of yearsolder than me. Not to say that
he's old or anything, wink wink, hagged Orange old man um. But

(51:21):
no, Like I I've doing thispodcast especially, I've learned a lot from
the way he prepares and just interacting, you know. I mean, I
think Haggar when I met and liketwo thousand five, two thousand four or

(51:44):
something like that, I mean,eighteen years or so in change. It's
it's crazy to think like we've gonefrom all right, we're doing shows too.
I'm in Florida with my parents andI'm listening to Howard Stern and my
mom's like, why are you listeningto Howard Stern? Isn't there like a

(52:05):
wrestling show you can listen to.I'm like, no, there's only one
podcast that comes out on Fridays.I haven't started it yet, and you
know, I think it was likea Monday or Tuesday. And she's like,
oh, I used to listen tothat and I'm like, oh,
there isn't any other wrestling podcast thatI listened to. So and this is

(52:28):
like right before Chavann he started hispodcast with Conrad, So I was like,
Bruce's show was the only wrestling podcast. Well, the rib was on
Haggard Or and I because I'm thinkingabout this all day, I'm like,
well, who would be my cohost if I'm gonna do a Ring of
Honor podcast? Like Gabe won't doit. He works for Evolved, Like

(52:50):
Ross is a very quiet individual,and I don't know how much he'd be
willing to talk carries, you know, still affiliated with Sinclair and I don't
really want to feel with their stuff. And I was like, oh,
hag it or. He and Iare friendly. We you know, we
taught college football, college basketball.Every year. He loses bets to me
all the time. Michigan State alwaysalways lays down for Duke er Ohio State.

(53:16):
And so we started talking about I'llmake sure my parents don't hear you
say that. Oh are they MichiganState people? Yeah? Oh, there
there you go. I actually Iplayed football in high school with a kid
that went to Michigan State. Andthere was a kid the year behind me

(53:38):
Brandon Long that also went to Ohioto Michigan State. Um Nick Smith was
class now four, Brandon was classof bow five, So they both ended
up at Michigan State. I don'tthink they did much while they were there,
but they were scholarship you know,Division one football players, so there's

(54:00):
going for him. Um but uhso, like I said to him,
I'm like, you know, thiscould be like therapy for you. You
know, go back, we talkabout the fun stories. We keep this
the memories alive because you know,current ROH was so different and it was
so corporate and buttoned up and loanhole. Here we are, you know,

(54:21):
two hundred and five episodes of thispodcast and some bonus stuff and it's it's
crazy to think about. Like itall spurned off the idea of my mom
being like, oh enough with thebab ba booy talk like no, and
my mom is the one that actuallystarted me and Howard Stern when I was

(54:45):
a teenager, so wow, allthings come full So she would listen to
it when we drive to school inthe mornings, so U, my my
brother and I our schools were tooclose to actually have buses, so she
would drive us and Howard would beon terrestrial radio at that point, and

(55:07):
I fell in love with the show, and here I am, you know,
thirty years later, not thirty yearslike twenty five years later listening to
Howard. This podcast is because ofHoward Stern indirectly, so like, yeah,

(55:27):
yeah, I appreciate it, Howard. Yeah. If he ever hear's
this, yeah, Baba, buoyto you and hit him with the hind
and all that other good stuff.Fight Bro is getting ready to bring a
new professional wrestling style to the independentscene. A progressive and innovative approach to
combat sports. Fighters converge and competeunder the fight philosophy, a strict code

(55:49):
of conduct featuring three set divisions,a tier system, and a seasonal structure.
Fight Bro is getting ready for theirdebut event in Westville, New Jersey,
at the sk Entertainment Center Saturday,September. The ten tickets are on
sale now. See talent like theProfessional ret Titus Delirious, Anthony Bennett,

(56:12):
Gabbyrtis, the World Famous CB,and many more. For more information on
fight Pro Wrestling, go to fightpro dot com that's fight with two ts
f I g H T T prodot com and find out more about Fight
Pro Wrestling's debut event Saturday, Septemberthe ten in Westville, New Jersey.

(56:36):
Want to hear the ad free versionof this show and get it early.
Become a patron today at patreon dotcom slash an armble Pie. If you
become a patron, you'll get earlyand add free access to the show with
several tiers to choose from that startedjust a few bucks a month, and
each tier comes with more bonus perkslike bonus content, merch, and so

(56:58):
much more. Support the show atpatreon dot com slash an Honorable Pod and
get early, add pre access andbe worthy of an honorable mention those friendships
and brotherhood like I went down whenRingovanna ran in Florida for Coral Springs and
Orlando. Uh. Those shows wereoriginally supposed to be a Survival of the

(57:21):
Fittest in October of two thousand noNovember of two thousand and eight, and
they ended up being canceled and pushedthe February of oh nine. So I
helped out at the shows, andthat was when I got to know like
Bobby Cruz, So did you didyou have any fun interactions with Bobby?

(57:47):
Because he is a gem of ahuman being. Bobby's yeah, jeez,
a whole lot like early on it. Yeah, maybe maybe more like later
years once I switched from ring crewto production, um, and and not

(58:10):
so much with just you know,fun stuff. But like I'm probably I'm
skipping way ahead here. But thefirst time I actually ran the handheld camera,
he was very much trying to makesure I was okay to do it
because ye know, any anyone couldbe like super nervous in that position.

(58:32):
Um, So thank you Bobby forthat. Um, although I honest thing,
I was feeling pretty good as itwas. But um, what show
was that? Do you remember?Were the World's uh twenty nineteen Grand Rapids?
Okay, night three of that tour? Okay, I hit a bunch

(58:52):
of friends that we were at thatshow. Nice, So that would have
been what May ish, Yes,may have twenty nineteen yep, so it
would have been, uh, probablyright around the time. So my brother
got married in May fourth, soit would have probably been the week after

(59:14):
something like that, like mid May. Yeah, it was mid May yep.
So that's uh, that's that's kindof my memory of that whole month.
Um. But I remember like Kajimaand stuff, being on those shows
and being you know, like,oh man, like I was just at
the garden, like I wanted thatto be the end. And then it
was like, oh but Kajima,Oh no, I got to be in

(59:37):
Florida for this wedding. Damn well. And the irony is the marriage lasted
like less than two years, Sowhat was it worth it hindsights, yes,
yes, but I mean like doingall those those roles. Like Bobby

(59:59):
I think is one of the fewpeople that he has this rough exterior to
him and he can be a heis a tremendous ballbuster. Oh for Yeah,
I mean to survive in wrestling,you kind of have to be And
that's that's one of the things liketo me, in my time around the

(01:00:21):
Ring of Honor staff and wrestlers andeverything, you had a lot of people
that were not making tons of moneydoing this, but nobody ever was.
Nobody was ever really like bitter ortreated me personally lesser than because I was
not trained. And I can't saythe same for a lot of guys that

(01:00:45):
are no long that are just hangingon by a strange Yeah. And I
would say I had similar experiences likeand yeah, I probably make more money
in my day job than sever Yeah, I could probably add up several people

(01:01:05):
and I still come out ahead.I not to try and rub it in
anyone's face. I never really talkedabout it. I was never in it
for the money, even when Istarted getting paid by him. But yeah,
it's like everyone was just so greatto be around. I think one
of my favorite people, you know, besides like having Arn and Bobby and

(01:01:31):
Grizz and Ernie and Rhett Paley andall those guys, one of my favorite
people. And I think he isthe most undercredited person in all of pro
wrestling today. Even is Bird,Oh God of Bird, that traitorous piece
of crap. Love him. Yeah, long story. And he bailed on

(01:01:54):
Ring of Honor for a W.More power to him for whatever, you
know, probably pay race he gotin the move. But yeah, that
he went the bat to me forme on on plenty of occasions. That
War the World's Weekend was his finalweekend Chicago. It was the show after

(01:02:15):
Grand Rapids, was the last onefor him and Paul before a W and
um, I just stame with Paul, fuck you, Paul Traders, piece
of crap, Like the last thingI said to him with that night,
was like, fuck off, Ilove the guy. I couldn't help but
say it. Well, so,like, I guess let's talk about that

(01:02:37):
since it is in the air now. Like the I viewed it as a
bitterness between Sinclair and seeing what howfast AW got to be where AW was.
You know, Yeah, I thinkit's it's an invest estament that they

(01:03:00):
had everything. They had the newJapan connection, they had the TV equipment,
they had, the talent, theyhad the I don't know about the
infrastructure quite as much, especially inthe latter days, but I feel like
when I see what the AW infrastructureis and just how small of a crew

(01:03:24):
that is for what they do incomparison to what Ring of Honor had,
it feels almost like it was thesame size of staff, and the Ring
of Honor at the end was notnearly anywhere close to what AW does on
a weekly basis. I mean,I would argue that we held our own

(01:03:47):
with what we had to work with, um, at least from as far
as the crew goes. I meanpersonal pride invested in that of course,
So yeah, take that for whatit's worth absolutely UM. But yeah,
it's like, yeah, I mean, I don't know that. I from

(01:04:11):
my perspective, I don't know thatI've had a whole lot of bitterness.
Per se. I just like they'regoing off to do their thing. I'm
still here. Um. I'm happyto be here. Um. I'm just
gonna do the best I can tomake it, make it, make things
happen here. Um. I can'treally speak as far as the upper management

(01:04:33):
level because I didn't interact with thema whole lot. But you know,
if Joe Cough and Greg Gillian weren'tdoing any raw roth speeches like we're gonna
go get them, uh, certainly, not that I heard. Um,
I don't know if they did anythingwith the talent that I wouldn't have been
a part of because you know,of the position I was in separation of

(01:04:56):
church and state. Yeah kind ofnot not that I never got to said,
you know, bs with the talentat all, but I definitely Uh,
I was definitely off on the otherside of things by that point.
Um. But yeah, I,like I said, I rarely interacted with
Joe or Greg. Um. WhenI did, it was reasonably positive.

(01:05:20):
I'll a bit generally brief and waslike, hey, how's it going,
type of stuff. So I neverreally got the great sense other than like
second hand. And you know,Jim Cornett certainly told some interesting stories about
those days before he left, umyou know, on his shooting shoot interviews

(01:05:41):
here and there. But uh,I mean, I don't know if that's
a bad name to mention around hereor not. As it he's just kind
of the old man with the tennisracket. Um if I if I knew
I could reach it, like withouthaving to get up and pull the microphone
plug away. I have a tennisracket, like a little mini tennis racket

(01:06:02):
that I bought. I actually thinkit's a pickleball racket or a kid's tennis
racket, but I put Cornett's faceon it. So when Tag and I
would talk about him on the pod, I would always wave the racket around
for the patrons that watch this onvideo to be amused by me making fun
of Cornet and his tennis racket.But no, I and I never really

(01:06:27):
had any pleasant interactions. I tookone. And this might have even been
right after he came back from gettingfired at TNA Glory by Honor Brian and
Nigel's final weekend, so this wouldhave been fairly shortly after I took a
picture with him and had a conversationwith him, and he was very pleasant,

(01:06:50):
and then every other interaction after thathe was just a miserable break.
So I don't have any anything supernice to say about him. But no,
I mean, he's he is whathe is. I mean, he's
definitely an intense individual. He cantell it, and he can tell a
hell of a story and tell itvery well. Um if it's yeah,

(01:07:15):
but he has his opinions on thingsother people have theirs. I probably agree
with some of what he says,some of not so much, but yeah,
yeah, I can't see I totallydisagree with everything he says, But
then I find myself disagreeing with alot of what so Yeah, and there's

(01:07:39):
no gray area of like, ohI could see it that way or it's
like either because I'll listen to hisshows every once in a while, and
you know, if there's something thatI see, like on Dynamite, that
I don't really care for, um, I'll hear his perspective, and usually
it's the opposite of whatever mind is. Like, if there's a match that

(01:08:00):
I really really liked, he'll findsomething completely wrong with it and just tear
it apartment. There's a tag matchtotally off subject because technically, well I
guess technically it's on subject because theyare the Ring of houndor tag team champions.
But FTR stay in Darby from Queenslast year. I thought it was

(01:08:25):
like one of the most well structuredstorytelling wrestling matches. I thought FTR in
particular was just amazing in their roleas villains in the match. And Darby
bumped his ass off, Sting camein a house of fire, did what
you wanted to see. Sting duein twenty and twenty one, and that

(01:08:48):
was that. And then Cornette justtotally tour the match apart on his show.
And then Dax shared fairly recently thatSting had left him and Cash voicemails
thanking them for for how they helpedhim in that match and how great of
a job they did for him torestore his confidence. So I'm like,

(01:09:13):
all right, I knew it.I was right, it was great.
Ship Cornett doesn't know what he's talkingabout. So like in the final like
decision to get involved. There iskind of a famous incident that Haggiorn has
described unto me, where a lightingtree happened to make its way to the

(01:09:39):
vicinity of your head. Indeed,M yeah, that that was an adventure,
but a little over twelve years ago, I guess. Um, So
yeah, grand ballroom show h foranyone who remembers those big ass Jenny Left
lighting trees like the telescoping steel Ibeams. For anyone who hasn't seen them,

(01:10:04):
you could probably google Jennie lifts tofigure out what the hell they look
like. Anyway, those things arebig, hard to maneuver, top heavy,
Getting ahead of myself a little bit, but yeah, they were all
at the very least, they werealways a pain in the ask to move
around. But yeah, on thisparticular day, we decided to try and

(01:10:29):
load all four of them into theelevator, which was our first mistake.
Managed to get the fourth one outso the elevator could actually go up,
which was a challenging and of itself. This was back when that elevator was
still like manually operated. It hadthe little crank that the guy had to
push one way or the other andyou know, close the closed the outer

(01:10:51):
door, close the cage, andthen crank it whatever. So yeah,
we get up with it. Excuseme, we get up there with three
of them. First one comes off, no problem. Now the elevator's lost
a fair amount of weight. Itshifts up a little bit. So yeah,
the operators suggests like, hey,I can read zero the elevator for

(01:11:14):
you. I was like in myhead, first mistake, Yeah, it's
coming down. I don't have togo up. That should be fine.
Turns out, yeah, so Ipull it off the elevator. The first
set of wheels comes over, thelip falls down to the floor, and
those wheels kind of jam in there. The rest of the thing stale,

(01:11:38):
has a little bit of momentum,bit of momentum articulation just so. Then
the thing just keeps is coming atme. I don't know how the hell
I moved out of the way ofit and only have it like bunked me
on the head. But I didget out of the way, thankful.

(01:12:00):
Um just stumbled over to my kneesoff of the side of it. As
it crashed down behind me. Iwas like, oh great, that's gonna
be fun to clean up. Andthe latter operators like, dude, you're
bleeding. I was like, whattouched my head? See the blood on
my hand is like God, damnit, just what I fucking need.

(01:12:21):
It's interesting that you didn't realize youwere bleeding the adrenaline and exactly you don't
feel things when they happen, Imean even just not even something far less
dramatic, like over the years,I like, I'm a computer dorc.
I build my own computers, andlike there was a stretch for like every
time I cracked the case opened,my hand would wind up bleeding. I'd

(01:12:43):
never know how it happened. Butyeah, this obviously on a whole different
level than that. Yeah, butwe're gonna we're gonna have talk computers once
we wrap this up, because Ihave a I have a laptop question that
I am desperately in need of answeringfor work purposes, work purposes. Yeah,
but so, like, who isaround when this is happening? Um,

(01:13:09):
what's the rapid response from the savvyroah medical team that existed? Well,
not so much as far as thatgoes. There was a guy from
the building that came over and youknow, yeah kind of tried to stop
the bleeding a little bit, uh, wipe the blood off my face.
Um, not so much of peoplewith ring of honor, because you know,

(01:13:31):
I it was all just ring Crewat that point pretty much. Um.
But uh yeah, like the highlightof that was, you know,
I'm sitting there getting my you know, getting clean up a little bit.
They're trying to with the guy tryingto stop the blood. Um. A
bunch of people come around the corner. Grizzly, classic Grizzly line. Oh
damn it, I whospen. Itwas someone I didn't like. I love

(01:13:59):
you, man, I love youtoo. Grizzly he is something he uh
he is one of the funniest humanbeings, like I really and this speaks
to, you know, just theculture of like the ring Crew lifestyle.
I wasn't heavily you know, doingit on every show I was at,

(01:14:25):
and it wasn't like a full timething. But getting to know those guys,
the Kyle Durden's of the world,Kyle Davis uh from the nwa um
grizz Ernie like read we can runthrough the laundry list of names bird.

(01:14:45):
These people are hilarious and to thisday, like I see Grizzly, you
know, in in like our littlegroup chat and stuff, and he will
just he'll have some ridiculous photoshop thathe is crafted and I'll just I'll giggle

(01:15:08):
myself into like you know where I'mcrying because it's so absurd, and he
doesn't just rapid fire. But theother thing about Grizzly Redwood, and we'll
get back to the lighting tree ina second, but the thing about Grizzly
Redwood is and this is something thatevery young wrestler needs to listen to.

(01:15:28):
No matter what you are given asfar as creativity goes or characters, if
you embrace it and you buy in, don't matter how much you don't like
it, you're gonna make it work. And Grizzly made the Grizzly Redwood character
work, and it worked incredibly well, and it was underserved, in my

(01:15:50):
opinion, in Ring of honorly yeah, yeah, Granted, Ring of Honor
was a little yeah, I meanTakaro was a lot more cartoon even something
like Ring of Honor and other promotionshave their varying degrees of that. So
I mean, I don't know thatit necessary. I hate to shoot on

(01:16:11):
Grisly, but and I don't thinkthis is even necessarily shitting on Grizzly.
But I don't know that it wasnecessarily meant to work in Ring of Honor
from my perspective, um, butyeah, while it was there, it
was he made the most of it, for sure. He um. He
just he embraced it and ran withit. And I have so much respect

(01:16:38):
for him as a performer. Um. I really rooted on the Littlest Slumberjack
and wanted it to succeed. Butso with the lighting, tree falls and
you're upstairs now I remember the Grandball Room I believe is the eighth floor,
seventh, seventh or eighth floor,yeah, well seventh, I think,

(01:17:00):
but yeah, yes, and thensomewhere it's up there. Six was
like the ghost floor, right,it existed, but it didn't exist sort
of. Yeah, like you wentyou had to go down to the sixth
floor to get to the bathrooms orsomething I remember, right, I believe.
So there wasn't anything else there,just walls. Um. So like

(01:17:26):
the ring has to get lifted upthrough a hole in the ceiling. Uh,
parts of it, yeah, butlonger parts of the longer parts because
they don't fit in the freight elevator. The lighting is going in this freight
elevator and then coming out on thatside of the Grand Ballroom, you have
to kind of go out, andthen if I'm remembering right, it was

(01:17:50):
where like fans would walk in wasthe opposite side, yes, and I'm
thinking it's on the right hand sideof the building. Yeah, if you're
facing the building for the outside,that's on the right hand side, freight
lighters on the left. Okay,So I've got it. I've lined up
in my head. It's been solong since i've been up there. The

(01:18:12):
fact that I can even remember thatis ridiculous. So much wasted knowledge.
I need to deep rag in mybrain. But the getting everything out of
that elevator and then into its place, you still had to go up another
floor with a lot of that lightingequipment into the balke maybe some of it,

(01:18:34):
but like the trees sat on thefloor that the elevator came out on.
So yeah, as far as thebig stuff that's impossible to carry upstairs,
not so much. I don't reallyremember. Honestly. I don't think
a lot of the ring, thestuff that we handle, I don't think
a lot of it went upstairs.Okay, So it made have just been

(01:18:55):
like sound stuff. Yeah, I'mprobably being and merry stuff. Yeah of
Wayne and Mary Fame and uh,you know, it's Uh, it's just
I'm I'm amazed when we've watched theseshows back and I think of like the
process of getting everything up there,and how that has been described to me

(01:19:19):
by so many different people. AndI don't ever recall being therefore set up,
but tear down I was, andit just the process itself is risky
at best. Yeah, so likebut like it's the love of the process,

(01:19:45):
right. And I just had thisconversation today with a friend of mine
and I was explaining to him abouthow when I watch wrestling on television or
at a show itself, what happenswhen the red light goes on to when
the red light goes off is myleast favorite part. And I love wrestling,

(01:20:11):
don't get me wrong, But likethe process of putting together a show
and putting together an arena and fora armory or any you know whatever name
of the venue is, a coliseumwhatever, Like it is just the most

(01:20:36):
intriguing part of wrestling for me.And having been fortunate enough to have seen
how this works and participated in itseveral times over the years, I think,
you know what Ring of Honor lookedlike, It looked bigger than for

(01:20:59):
a long time until Sinclair came intothe picture with their their dollars. Yeah,
they went their way with it andspent what money they did spend.
Yeah, and those those early days, I mean I've heard there was thirty
thousand dollar ring skirts that were purchased, Yeah, that went missing in Louisville,

(01:21:25):
Kentucky, and obscenely expensive ring thatwas just described to me as being
a big piece of shit quote unquote. Yeah, I never had I never
took part in setting that thing up, but helped tear it down a couple
of times. And that thing wasdefinitely very awkward in a lot of ways.

(01:21:48):
A lot of things that seemed likethey were different for the sake of
being different, Some things that mayhave been well intentioned but still were more
trouble than they were worth. Andthen the rain just fell apart and stopped
working that one shelf. Yes,it was like a pay per view and
then taping the next day or something. It could do burns. Yes,

(01:22:13):
possibly. I can't tell you theshow name or anything, but I kind
of remember. Yeah, it wasin that era. It might have been
over the summer that year. Wasit a survival of the Fittest? Possibly
like the one they did for TV. I don't remember. I have vague

(01:22:38):
recollections of Scarlett Board Dogan or topripped off on the pay per view.
M sad that that's the thing Iremember. But yeah, I don't know.
It's it's hard because I would sayfrom like twenty midway through like twenty
thirteen into about twenty eight eighteen,it's kind of a blur where everything felt

(01:23:03):
like it was on equal ground andsome stuff was very good. Then there
were other shows like We're going tocover a Survival The Fittish twenty eighteen from
Columbus when hagenhon comes back. BecauseI think it was like the most bizarre
show I've ever been at for Ringof Honor and that venue Express Live is

(01:23:29):
horrible. It's it's I thought itwas great for setup and whatnot from from
that perspective, but yeah, Loadingfor eight right. For as far as
watching it shows there, I don'tknow. And I've never had the pleasure
of sitting in the audience for it, but I sat in GA for Survival

(01:23:53):
the Fittish. Rhet had given mesome tickets and buddy of mine and I
drove down. It's like hour andforty five minutes for me, so super
easy. You know, that's ahome game essentially. And get there and
we're standing up and the ring isbelow the fence that surrounded the GA area.

(01:24:15):
So let's say they're brawling on thefloor, you can't see anything.
Yeah, that's not ideal. It'sa great concert venue. I saw.
I saw the Counting Crows there.Great concert. Um. Awesome venue for
for that. Um. But definitelyas far as the loading goes, I

(01:24:39):
remember going in and like out towhere everybody was. Um, the hell
was the There was a weird guythat would come in Columbus in the parking
lot. Uh, he was outthere. I can't think of the guy's
name. It's been so long,but um, I think he did like

(01:25:02):
a bunch of the Midwest cities likehe would do Chicago, Ridge and I
think Columbus, Toledo. I rememberseeing him there for that tag Team Survival
of the Fittest, which was athat was a thing that happened, Tag
Team Survival of the Fittest. Um. But uh it. The loading had

(01:25:24):
to be pretty easy there as faras getting everything in on a flat,
flat level and not having any stairsand loading docks and just roll a few
things down the ramp and some ofthe ring stuff comes in, you know,
just pulling off the truck is noton wheels anyway. So yeah,
what in the I guess the modernera of Ring of Honor, what do

(01:25:47):
you think was the worst venue forloading because I've heard I've heard one consistent
answer. M hmmm. Pittsburgh Columbuswere both basically on par um, same

(01:26:10):
company owns both buildings. Yes,they're they're virtually identical. Yeah, I
I I will say I wasn't atevery show, even towards the end,
so I may have missed certain venueshere and there, Um, Center Stage,

(01:26:34):
Atlanta. I was kind of thinkingabout saying that. So to me,
that is my that is my MadisonSquare Garden is a a tried in
truth since nineteen ninety one, raisedon WCW. You know, the very

(01:26:54):
first wrestling I saw was the WCWSaturday Night or whatever, uh or maybe
it was a main event or PowerHour or something, so like kind of
called back to me getting hooked,getting going through thunder sort yeah, and
and it's it's always it's my comfortfood of wrestling. It's like that era,

(01:27:16):
as bad as it was, youknow, you can only have so
many Elk Gante matches before you youjust go why why am I watching this?
But I I the first time Iwent to center stage WrestleMania weekend of
twenty eleven, I think, um, I was just jaw on the floor,

(01:27:42):
you know the the uh. Ithink it's a Looney Tunes cartoon where
the jaw drops and the tongue likerolls out. Uh. It's not bugs,
Bunny, Uh the ducks which duck? Is that daffy uck? No,
it's not. Definitely is it adog? Possibly that? Like,

(01:28:09):
yeah, I know that. Ijust can't place the character that was me
walking into center stage like carries likeyou gotta come see this thing. You
gotta see it. It's it's amazingblah blah blah. And he walked me
in there, and I swear toGod, I just went, ah,
whoa I was. I just lookedaround. I have all these pictures in

(01:28:30):
like the folder from an iPhone,and it's his center stage and it's like
no pictures of wrestling matches. It'sjust pictures of the building. Because I'm
like, oh, here's where Rickruden Sting fought through this thing. And
there was a hallway with like pictureson the wall and it was right there.
Why why is the set up withthe ramp? Why aren't they coming

(01:28:51):
from underneath? Like I'm WCW andum, it was just I was so
happy. But I've heard such horrorstories from be it you know, Bird
or Brooklyn or uh you know HaggyDoorn. I mean the center stage was
too many ramps. Yeah, tobe honest, I was there like one

(01:29:13):
time. Um, I guess itwould have been twenty nineteen, whatever time
of the year that was. Ididn't have to like, I was on
production crew at that point, soI didn't have as much to do as
far as moving stuff is more likeplugging things in and as far as that
kind of stuff goes. There weresome nice features about that building, but
I can I can, I cansee where there were some issues otherwise,

(01:29:39):
um with the more physical logistics.Um. So, you know, Ring
of Honor kind of has a specialplace in all of our hearts, like
in different ways, And I thinkthat to me is the common thread for
every one of these Honorable Journey episodesthat we do, is it's either somebody

(01:30:00):
that I've been friends with for youknow, almost twenty years, or somebody
knew that that I'm meeting like yourself, that you know was an integral part
in getting shows produced. And therehas to be, you know, a
thread of what made Ring of Honorsso special, And to me, it's

(01:30:25):
the people. Yes, the wrestlingis super important obviously, like that's what
brings the people together, but Iseparate that into its own category of the
wrestling. As the wrestling, it'sgonna be good, guarantee, I mean
almost guaranteed. Every show I've everbeen to there's something I can take home

(01:30:48):
and say, wow, that wasreally awesome. Give it whatever rating out
of ten you want or seventeen starsor whatever cares. It's just but it's
the people. It's the traveling,the road, stories, the fun,
the hijinks. Um, so youhave to have some like favorite people you

(01:31:10):
want to call out, uh fromfrom your time, Um, shout them
out. They probably listened to them, yeah probably. Um. Now Here,
here's the part where I probably shouldhave anticipated something like this and maybe
made a list, because you know, there's every name in my brain and

(01:31:31):
just you know, and there's alwayssomebody you forget, right, Yeah,
there's always somebody forget. And thenthere's always just like me trying to have
to parse the list and just goingthrough an infinite loop of saying you know
this, this is, and there'slike it never gets to one or whatever.
There's like billions of combinations of words, and sometimes my brain has traveled

(01:31:53):
picking out a combination that works.Um, and we've talked We've talked Grizzly,
We've talked Bird Hagedorn obviously, Ernieand and I guess Pelly would have
been around in the earlier days foryou, Um, you know Rhett obviously,

(01:32:15):
but like and you know still aroundat the end of course. Um,
character that he is absolutely is.He was just in my house.
Um. He and Eli did ashow in Columbus, uh, like three
weeks ago and they stayed here.Um, and it this my house,

(01:32:40):
like where I'm at now, myprevious house, all the various apartments I
had before that. Um, it'salways been a welcome place, like an
open door for everybody coming through.And I just I feel like I owe
wrestling something because it's given me somuch and I will forever trying to be

(01:33:01):
paying paying it forward. I guess. So anytime somebody rolls through, like
just let me know a date andthe red carpet gets rolled out, the
air mattresses come out, the newsheets get put on the second bed,
and you know, towels and sheetsand all that good stuff. Like it's

(01:33:23):
an open house. But it's allbecause of Ring of Honor. Absolutely,
Like that's what it it. That'sthe the origin is Bring of Honor happened
to exist. I happen to youknow, trade tapes back in the day
with all those guys from the originalcompany. Um, they started a company,

(01:33:45):
and then I found new wrestling toenjoy it. UM. So obviously,
if we're not gonna get into specificfavorite people because I could Yeah,
no, no, I think aboutit, I'll shout out Mark Davis,
director production. UM. Not awrestling guy, never was, but yeah,

(01:34:05):
he definitely had the attitude for it. He was a ballbuster and a
half to be sure. I thinklike the first time, like one of
the first good memories of his Ihad. UM, I got tapped around
the Spotlight one night, UM,and it was post two Burns when we
moved to whichever other UM Baltimore venue. So there was a pay per view

(01:34:28):
and they needed me to run Spotlight, so I did. Um. Uh.
So I was still on the ringcrew at that point. I was
just kind of got grabbed for thatjob. We're tearing down, like I'm
standing in the ring, the ropesare losing, and a couple of guys
who are like yelling telling me,like he hit the ropes and so I
do and like then just Marks,like what the fuck you think you're doing?

(01:34:49):
I was like, no, thathe just hit. It's like,
pays me. It's like, nicejob, man, were you were you
there when everybody happened to do thejump. I guess Bobby did it the
jump from the stage to the ring. And I think Ian may have done

(01:35:12):
it as well in Columbus. Yeah, yeah, I believe so. Um,
unless they did it more than once, but yeah, I think you
once. Um. I think it'sit's interesting because you know, I I
know a little bit about Mark Davis'sbackground, you know, not coming from

(01:35:39):
wrestling, but coming from Sinclair broadcasting, so you know, he's not a
wrestling guy. And sometimes that isa bad mix, and sometimes it is
it is a good mix because itprovides a new perspective. Absolutely, and
say he fell into the latter categorythere. I think that's kind of the
essential thing with wrestling moving forward.His new perspectives on how to make this

(01:36:03):
look you know, on television.And I'm not a frequent WWE watcher.
There are people that I will goout of my way to watch, but
that I could probably count with likethree fingers. I could not even get

(01:36:24):
anybody to come to my house towatch SummerSlam, so, like, you
know, because it literally was likethe day before and I was like,
Oh, Summer Slam is tomorrow,guys, anybody want to come over and
set out my big friend, mygroup chat with my friends. And you
know, these are people that I'veknown and watch every wrestling pay per view
with, you know, since Iwas in middle school and high school and

(01:36:47):
you know college. And they werelike, nah, it's a Saturday.
No, no, don't want to, don't care. And I'm like,
all right, fine, and thenI just kind of went in and out
of the room when it was on. But um, I think the constant
camera cuts that you see on WWEfrom like Kevin Dunn, that is not

(01:37:10):
a way to produce wrestling for televisionair or to direct you know, camera's
air. Like that's horrible. Um. Yeah, And I like the simplistic
approach that Ring of honor maintained.Yeah, I tend I tend to tend
to agree there. I also believewe should give Mark Brown some credit because

(01:37:36):
he is the one who created themoving cameraman thing with Kyle O'Reilly doing the
punching and kicking into the cameraman.So, uh, credit where credits due
to Mark Brown? Um. I'venever met Mark in person that I know,

(01:37:57):
but yeah, but I've interacted itwith him a lot like Twitter and
Facebook, and I think he's Ithink he's a good dude, absolutely and
very creative. Yeah, and he'sa lot now for sure. Yeah,
so yeah, I mean may maybeit was great having him as a director

(01:38:19):
for Ring of Honor once, youknow, he settled into that role off
of coming off a camera or whateverin between. So yeah, um and
actually I he um actually reached outto me a while ago when excuse me
New Japan was running the show inDC to try and get involved. It

(01:38:41):
was unfortunately a little too short notice. But yeah, hopefully we'll work together
hand. Yeah, yeah, they'llthey'll probably be back there at some point.
I'm sure barely successful from what Iremember seeing. Um. I just
I think a lot of the namesfrom behind the scenes don't get that public

(01:39:02):
credit it's always credit to the wrestlers. And I fully believe in crediting production
people because to me, and thisis something that I was always taught was
the ring is the most important thing. Like without a ring, there is
no show. Yes, then youwork your way to the people that are

(01:39:25):
putting together this show. Then youget to the wrestlers, and you get
to the promoter or booker or whateveris in between, and then you get
to the fans. And to me, the people that are behind the scenes
in wrestling are never given the creditthat they truly deserve. People know Kevin

(01:39:46):
Dunn because they don't like the wayhe produces wrestling. Yeah, and some
people have other reasons for it.But well, yes, I was trying
to avoid the legalities of this situation. I don't know, I've never met
the guy. I've just heard peoplesay things, so you know, set

(01:40:10):
my opinion is all based on secondhandinformation. Yeah, many many people have
said many, many things about KevinDunning. Yes, but like the production
people, the ring crew, theseare essential components to professional wrestling that I
have so much respect for. Andthat's why I like when I talked about

(01:40:34):
how I like the process of puttinga show together over the actual show itself.
It's not that I don't like wrestling. I love wrestling. I love
the production aspect of it. Andyou also have to mention the broadcasters,

(01:40:57):
the announcers. So we talked aboutBobby cruz Ian, ric Abanni yep ian
Ian is a great guy. YesI have I have said the hag.
It earn so many times. Weneed to get in on this show,
like we need to get in onthe show, get his his view on
things, and it just has notworked out. He had Carrie's podcast for

(01:41:21):
so long and at some point,like I'm sure things will work out,
We'll be able to get in tocome and share his perspective. Caprice is
another one, and ironically, andI just had this conversation with Caprice try

(01:41:41):
to make maybe a month or soago. Caprice was the first non WWE
wcw ECW wrestler I saw on TV. We had NWA Wildside here that aired
had like three am every two weekson like a syndicated like local station.

(01:42:08):
So I think for us it waslike Channel sixty seven, but actually in
reality it was like thirteen because itwasn't one of the news stations. It
was just something that Time Warner hadin their lineup, and the channel guide
would just say wrestling. It wouldn'ttell you what it was or who was

(01:42:30):
in what matches. But we gotNWA wild. So like Posey Salinaro,
Caprice, Coleman, John David ornames Corey Chavis, rain Man Hunter did
show hilirious Um, you know DaisyHayes ajum. I mean all these people,

(01:42:55):
Ron Killings was there. All thesepeople were on my television in like
two thousand and two thousand and one, Jimmy Rave rest in peace yea,
And I mean that was my introductionto independent wrestling, and the first match
was Caprice and rain Man, andit's just like, you know, twenty

(01:43:17):
one years later, it blows inmy mind that Caprice looks exactly the same.
He is still in incredible shape,if not better shape now in his
forties. I hope he doesn't mindme saying that. Then when he was
like, you know, twenty ortwenty one or hour old, he was

(01:43:39):
at that point. And you know, Caprice and Ian made such a great
duo after forcing you know, Cabanaand Ian to be a duo. I
always felt like Cabana was a greatannouncer but belonged in the rain. Yeah.

(01:44:00):
I mean, I guess when youneed someone to fill a spot,
and you got when Karina. Ofcourse Karina bailed um at some point and
that kind of needed to slot someonein there, and I guess unfortunately that
didn't couldn't come up with any betteroptions, which obviously I have I have
had no role in any of that. I just knew that it happened.

(01:44:24):
I thought bj Wimmer did a greatjob as well as a commentator. Yeah,
and he was certainly not spending awhole lot of time in the ring
either, So no, he wasdone by that point. I'm pretty sure.
Yeah, the match with Steve Ithink in North Carolina may have been

(01:44:44):
the last one with Kevin Sullivan's involvementthat it was the Father angle. I
think it was. I don't knowwhere that was going to go, but
I don't think that's ever been publiclyexplained what exactly that was supposed to be.
No, it kind of that kindof just ended up, you know,

(01:45:09):
Punishment debuted and then you know thatkind of fizzled. Yep, I
guess, and but you know,Punishment Martinez made his debut and people out
there listening that. Maybe I knowthat name, that's Damien priest um on
raw. Probably I'm gonna guess,uh, he's in the edge. Yeah,

(01:45:33):
yeah, that's right, that's right. But I pretty sure it's raw
sounds right. I don't know.They all feel ones red, ones blue.
Yeah, one of these days Ishould watch again, man every time,
find something else, read a book, maybe wait til Cody comes back
in the crowd actually doesn't have noisepiped in, you know. Yeah,

(01:45:58):
well, I mean things are changingup there, so yes they are,
Yes, they are, um,but it's very very boy. That's I
hate to like make this comparison becauseit's it's not the same. But there
there are moments in your life whereyou remember where you were when you know,

(01:46:23):
and I will always remember where Iwas when that news came down.
Yeah. Well but just so happenssitting right now, sitting there, sitting
here, working and looking over youknow. Yeah, I think it was
Russell talk or something. I sawbreaking news thing from um, but I

(01:46:48):
was I was walking on a treadmillvery slowly. I got a I got
a lingering foot issue, and Icannot run on my foot, nor can
I pedal on a bike. Becauseit's too much pressure pushing down and no,
and it's gone on now for ayear, but it's it's doing better

(01:47:13):
painless, So I'm finally starting tosee progress. Um. Shout out to
doctor Sampson over to aw who isactually the one that made a really quick
and easy Amazon recommendation to actually realignmy foot by simply just putting lifts in

(01:47:33):
my shoes. So I'm actually likethree inches taller now. Well, so
it's great, I'm like five eleven. But it um in terms of like
ring of Honor as a whole,like we have to figure out you know

(01:47:54):
that there are favorite people, butthen there are also negative people. Do
you have any Lanspervado complete asshole?Oh? Wow? Is it because he's
a Tar Heel fan? No?No, I'm so kidding. I'm so

(01:48:15):
kidding because I think that would becrazy to throw him under the bus.
Yeah, I just had to dothat just because like him and his brother.
Literally, you know, it's beensaid that Folly is the nicest guy
in wrestling. They would give Follya run for his money as far as

(01:48:36):
that comes, you know, Iwithout getting into like the whole shoot names
and stuff, but like both ofthem are two of the nicest human beings
in the world. And I wouldnot say that about many North Carolina tar
Heel fans, especially like ones thatwould you know, like when I'd have

(01:48:57):
a Duke hat on, they wouldtake it and oftentimes do things whip the
hat and then hand it back tome. Um. They they the rivalry
is very real amongst us people.Um, but I I love those guys.
I thought they were both excellent talentsthat unfortunately just timing. And you

(01:49:21):
know, there there were things thatI know that got suggested that never happened
with those guys. Um making MissyHyatt, Grandma Bravado or something I remember.
Um No, but yeah, likenicest people. I always loved watching

(01:49:41):
their stuff. Um It's like theyhad some definitely some munique tag team stuff,
very creative. The look was differentfrom everybody else, which stood out.
Um. Of course we're talking aboutAndre Chase over at the WWE or
I guess n x T. Yeah, yeah, I think he's still down

(01:50:04):
there. Um but yeah, theChase University thing, it's all predicated on
their their love for North Carolina uhand and the university. And um I
remember going to a Chikara show wherethey worked with Buzz and it was a

(01:50:24):
really good match. But it wasn'tlike a Ring of Honor style. No.
I mean that's that's not chasing forbetter or worse depending on your tastes.
I tend to lean more towards Ringof Honor, but you know,
or power to anyone who likes asdo I. And uh, but I
went. It was local and Iwant to, you know, see the
people. And um, it wasright after Larry Sweeney had passed away.

(01:50:46):
And Sweeney was a wonderful friend ofmine. Um and Hagadorns and literally everybody
he came in contact with, hewas beloved. But um, they had
these sweet and sour memorial shirts thatI wanted. So I literally paid to
go to the show say hello tothe Bucks and the Bravados. I was

(01:51:09):
not familiar with hardly anybody on theshow, um, or at least who
they were under the masks. Iwasn't like totally in the loop on that.
And I went to buy the shirtand that was it, um,
And then I lost one hundred twentypounds in the shirt is like a I
could swim in it. You couldfit three of me inside my shirt.

(01:51:34):
So um, but yeah, theBravados great people. Um, supremely like
guys to root for them for surein wrestling and out of wrestling yep,
of course Lance not being in wrestlinganymore, being in politics. Last I
heard, so oh I Harlem andLance yea, yeah, yeah whatever,

(01:52:03):
the tar Hills. Yeah, youknow, either way, it's super nice
guys. But ye uh so.Obviously Bravaro's um any good Rhett stories,
specifically Rhett sleeping stories, no,never shared. But like one time I

(01:52:27):
shared a room with Rhett. Therewas enough of us piled in the room
and I, you know, justwe were all exhausted. So was he
the first person? Probably? Idon't know. I have a hard time
telling, and I don't know.I was out of it, so I
was just looking forward to going bedmyself. The context for for people listening

(01:52:48):
is Rhet sleeps anywhere and everywhere anddoes not care. It's disturbing, Like
he could sit there. He wasat my house last summer doing a show

(01:53:09):
out here and I counted from fiveto one and he was snoring on the
couch. Yeah, from the timehe sat down to the time he said,
hey, you should put on somep w E show That him and

(01:53:31):
Grizzly and Hagitorn and sugar Foot andall those guys were on, and I
said, all right, I putit on. I w TV. And
I looked over at and I couldsee his eyes like he was watching,
but he was awake speaking, andyou go five four three eyes supposed to

(01:53:56):
one out. Yeah. Well,I mean I can't necessarily corroborate anything as
far as him that night, butI can actually tell you another story from
that night. Uh. And actuallyI would say, uh, Rhet was
not the first person to fall asleepthat night. That would be called the
Karina. We hadn't even left thebuilding. Oh yeah, yeah, we
were still packing up. He's likehe, you know, patters into the

(01:54:19):
back of the locker room and windsup falling asleep, and we leave him
there. So like we get tothe hotel, we're walking over to Danny's
or actually we've gotten to maybe wegot to Danny's at that point whatever,
and then he's he calls Rhet,It's like where are you guys? And
then like me being the one witha car that wasn't you know, Rhet

(01:54:42):
drove the truck over. I hadmy car, so I had to go
get him. Where where was thisPhilly? Okay, I guess it was
twenty three? Yeah, I waswhat I did? Uh down not there,
but down by the hotel down theairport. So I was I was
like, well, there's a therewas a Denny's across the street from not

(01:55:04):
so much the luxurious Dayton Montgomery CountyFairgrounds. Maybe they rest in peace.
They're no longer in existence, atleast the call Sam portion of it is
torn down. Um any other funlike roads stories you'd like to share with

(01:55:25):
us? Uh? I suppose Icould share some of the earlier, earlier
ribbing I got. Um, yeah, none, none of it was bad.
I mean, you know, asan outsider, they kind of went
easier on me than they probably wouldhave otherwise. But you know, they
never stopped him from you know,a couple of guys coming over and saying,

(01:55:46):
hey, go over there and dothat thing to that guy. They'll
make you look stupid, and youknow, I don't care. Um,
And I kind of like I knewcoming in wrestling was a ribby rib heavy
environments. I kind of knew whatI was probably inevitably going to be in
for. But yeah, like theone that I remember, the one I
remember was, Um, they toldme to go over to Hagedorn, act

(01:56:08):
like you're gonna shake his hand andbe like fuck you. Um, of
course they're. They're they're standing rightbehind me when I'm doing this. So
this this Shenanigans. Uh, thisone in particular, and this one was
Pelly and Bobby Dempsey. Oh yeah, yeah, of course they're they're like

(01:56:30):
standing behind me, watching and laughing. Hagedorn sees that and he's like,
he knows they put me up toit. So I totally didn't get any
ship for it whatsoever. The longestrunning feud and ring of honor history is
Hagedorn versus Primo. It is thethe long End, It's the hundred year

(01:56:50):
of war. Literally. Fight Prois getting ready to bring a new professional
wrestling style to the independent and seena progressive and innovative approach to combat sports.
Fighters converge and compete under the fightphilosophy, a strict code of conduct
featuring three set divisions, a tiersystem, and a seasonal structure. Fight

(01:57:14):
Pro is getting ready for their debutevent in Westville, New Jersey, at
the SKA Entertainment Center Saturday, September. The ten tickets are on sale now
see talent like the professional ret TitusDelirious, Anthony Bennett, Gabby Orts,
the world Famous CB and many more. For more information on Fight Pro Wrestling,

(01:57:38):
go to fight pro dot com.That's fight with two ts f I
g H T T pro dot comand find out more about Fight Pro Wrestling's
debut event Saturday, September the tenthin Westville, New Jersey. Want to
hear the ad free version of thisshow and get it early, Become a

(01:57:59):
patron today at pagereon dot com slashan Hororable Pod. If you become a
patron, you'll get early and addfree access to the show with several tiers
to choose. Run that started justa few bucks a month, and each
tier comes with more bonus perks likebonus content, merch, and so much
more. Support the show at pagereondot com slash an Horrable Pod and get

(01:58:20):
early, add free access and beworthy of an honorable mention. Any recollection
of like indie name showing up andlike not wanting to do ring duty or
like feeling it was beneath them.Uh not really, I mean it.

(01:58:44):
I mean maybe some people here andthere that like we're kind of worked on
ring crew but maybe weren't really puttingin a whole lot of effort. Um.
Yeah, for those of you whoare in the building for like the
one tag team women's match featuring Rainof Vantash that never made it to air.
Um wow, that maybe the thirdtime her name has been mentioned in

(01:59:13):
two hundred and five episodes and therehas not been one positive recollection of said
Rain of Vantage. Yeah. Imean friendly enough as much as just like
saying high and whatnot. But youknow, I didn't seem to ever want
to put forth much effort. Imean in the early days, there were

(01:59:38):
there were a few people that wouldcome around, like the oh four oh
five, oh six period that werelike indie names, but they didn't want
to do ring crew. Um.Hageron has mentioned like rich Swan would you
know, not get a dark matchbecause he didn't want to ring crew.
So that's when Shane Hollister another example. Um, he's not in wrestling anymore.

(02:00:03):
I don't think who's a A AA w H going the way guy
really talented, uh, you knowin the indies. But um, do
you have any like solid advice forpeople helping out at indie shows and how
to kind of start the networking process, because that's something that I found really

(02:00:27):
was important to establishing a lot offriendships and kind of not necessarily like growth
for me and the world of wrestling, but as far as like my social
group, it definitely grew it innumbers. Yeah. Uh well, I

(02:00:47):
mean, like I said, umyeah, I know what you're in for.
Um, like I said, veryrib heavy environment. People will mess
with you here and there. Um, roll with the punches. Um,
don't start shit up. If someoneasked you to go do something, just
be okay. That was kind ofalways my attitude. Um, no is

(02:01:12):
not in your vocabulary, I wastaught. Yeah. The closest I came
was another time I got u ribbeda little bit. They were They came
up to me and it was like, go outside and serve so and so.
Serve as in, you know,you got served the movie um,
which of course I don't dance,so um. You know, I was

(02:01:33):
like, I don't know what thehell I'm gonna do out there. You
know, Rhett was one of thepeople involved in this, and he's like
do this, and you know,do whatever. I don't remember all of
them, but you know, dothis and this and this, and I
was like, Okay, I can. I think those are simple enough that
I can do. So I didit, went outside, did the thing
of course, Uh, this wasout front. M For whatever reason,

(02:01:57):
some of the stuff in Manhattan Centergot loaded in from the front. But
yeah, there was a line startingalready. So I hope the fans enjoyed
the show, and I hope noneof them had their phones out taking video
of it. I don't know ifI care, if I ever, it's
a it's a life a life lastingmemory to think about. Like, it's
it's all about the experiences, andI think that's kind of the thing that

(02:02:23):
I've come to appreciate the most isYeah, like I sat in the front
row for Joe and Kobashi and it'sthe greatest wrestling match I've ever seen in
my life, and nothing has comeclose ever since, no offense that any
of the other great wrestling I've seen, because there's been a lot, but
I think I think for me,like the best I saw that that has

(02:02:46):
yet to have anything totally live upto it all, but maybe some of
them close was Dragon versus kenta Umin the Grand Ballroom Glory by Honor Night
too. Yeah, almost a monthprior or know that a year a year
and MS Athletes, Yeah, itwas a year and a month later.

(02:03:08):
Uh it was ten one oh fiveand nine September two thousand and six.
I have the DVD somewhere. Icould probably go find a date, but
yeah there, I mean I couldsee them in the spiral case, like
every DVD that's ever come out isover there, and it's just um yeah

(02:03:33):
that that was definitely like the thethe other one they there. I mean
Joe Kobashi to me, Joe's myall time favorite wrestler, so I do
tend to be a little biased there. You couldn't tell from my my demand
of him still being a champion,but uh, like Brian and Kenta was

(02:04:00):
so intense and to be there andlike feel that knowing how hurt Brian was,
knowing that, like the night beforetheir tent in a parking lot in
the rain, Uh you know itwas Kenton and Marafuji against the Briscos,

(02:04:24):
you know, which is not aneasy task. And then that was the
show that also they had the littlebrawl with Joe and uh Moroshima, which
rewatching that for the podcast. Thatwas a lot more intense on tape than
it was in person. Um,there's just so many like of those moments

(02:04:49):
and matches and fun haha pranks andribs and stuff, and it occurred everywhere.
It's it's a brother hood in inevery sense of the word, and
there is a feeling of belonging thatit's it's a special place to be in

(02:05:15):
that time frame of Ring of Honor. Um, you were a part of
everything until Final Battle. Then yes, yes, Final Battle was my final
battle as it at least as faras things stand now. But uh,
yeah, that was a somber momentto be sure, especially not really knowing

(02:05:38):
for sure what was going to happen. But you know, as many people
have said, both in and outof the business, Uh, in and
out of the company, Um,you have a wrestling company with no wrestlers
and a show coming up in March. You know what. That doesn't bode
well. So it did kind togo into it expecting that was probably gonna

(02:06:01):
be it for me. Um.And then of course, you know,
watching the March pay per view wasalso kind of an awkwardly somber moment as
well, just you know, havingit sink in, it's like, oh,
that really was the end? MaybeI wasn't quite ready for that as
I thought, I mean, especiallyas like and and it is what it

(02:06:24):
is from a booking perspective, butlike seeing Rhet lose the belt, and
yeah, it didn't even start toregister when the Briscos lost their belts,
and then of course they were atthe past this past one as well.
Anyway, um you know that one. I thought, it's like, okay,
you no FTR taking the belts,Fine, they can go somewhere from
here. And then Rhet lost thebelt. I was like, hmm.

(02:06:45):
And then uh, Josh Woods lostthe belt his belt, and oh,
it's sensing a pattern here really upuntil Gresham because you know, and it's
just to me, I understand whataw was doing because nothing was set in

(02:07:08):
stone for sure. So I look, Kobashi is my favorite Japanese wrestler of
all time, however, Minora Suzukiis, yeah, and I mean I
don't have anything against Masazuki either,per se, but I didn't. And
when that match got announced, Iwas super exciting because I'm like, Okay,

(02:07:31):
Rhet is my friend, Minora Suzukiis one of my favorites. How
could this not be like a solidtwenty minute match of just great counter wrestling
and hard hitting and rhet getting hadthat chip on his shoulder and showing the
world that he belongs and there isnobody on this earth, maybe Val his

(02:07:56):
wife, that believes in rhet morethan I do. Because I've been you
know, demanding it, you know, and singing his praises for a long
time. He should have gotten way. I don't know what in the hell.
Yeah, no, I'll give youa run for your money on that
one. I mean, Brett hadyeah, long, longest tenure probably of

(02:08:20):
anyone in the company short of PaulTurner, since Paul Turner started from day
one. Well, the Bristos wouldbe yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, they yeah. I mean, I guess they did take a
break at one point for college football, but yeah, even so, that
was pretty not pretty brief. Wouldhave been August of oh four or Junivo

(02:08:46):
four until February of oh five,I think sounds right, so a little
under a year. But I mean, I I would made Ret my number
one draft pick from that the ROHroster, you know, to a whatever

(02:09:07):
the new ROH is going to be. It was very easily I would have
chosen to write number even over theBriscoes. And that's not a knock on
Mark and J. I love thoseguys. I love their parents. Their
parents were wonderful to me over theyears, to the point where they actually
even sent me like a college graduationgift because I missed Final Battle O nine

(02:09:33):
aries and Tyler sixty minute in thesnow. Yeah, I was walking across
the stage, something I did notwant to do, and my parents were
like, you're walking out across thatstage. It took you five years,
let's go walk across the stage.Um it sounded exactly like that too.

(02:09:54):
But I just the Briscoe parents werewonderful, wonderful people, and hey,
Papa Briscoe like he could go,so you know, that whole family was
always so good to me. Butfor sure, like on that roster,
Rhett was the guy. I waslike, how do you not take this

(02:10:18):
guy? And just boom, he'sred. Yeah, he's got the look,
he's got the talent, he cantalk like crazy, he looks and
acts the part and as the authenticitythat I want in my wrestling, and

(02:10:41):
I don't get it. I meanas much as a lot of guys these
days aren't quite as ripped as youknow, like the jacked guys from the
eighties or whatever. But Rhet hasthat look. I mean, but not
necessarily on the juice or anything likethat to to that degree by any means,
not anywhere trying to imply path.But he does amazing. He doesn't

(02:11:01):
need he didn't need. I feellike you're my grandmother right now. You
don't need your skin and bones,except Reht his skin and muscle. Yeah,
he's he is, uh and notonly that, he's a good person,
like you know, yeah, Imean a joke here in there,
but he was all good to me. Um, yeah, he's already mentioned

(02:11:22):
one. But yeah, Like thefirst night I was helping him load down
a TV. I was carrying theh the pad, the ring pads,
um, those things not necessarily heavy. They're just big and awkward. They're
awkward. Yeah. It's like Iwas starting to drop it. I couldn't
get him back up, and He'slike right behind me, was like just
there you go. Yep. Thefirst night I met Rhett was the night

(02:11:45):
after his very first match, andin the Montgomery County Fairgrounds and Dayton,
and the next night was Cleveland,and you know, I was like,
oh, man, like first match, congratulations, Dad and we got to
talk in and I've converted more VHStapes to DVD for that man than I

(02:12:07):
think any other wrestler in the historyof Bring of Honor. Um. He's
exactly like me as far as thetapes go. And I'm I'm proud to
say that I am down to abouttwelve VHS tapes that have yet to be
converted over. So as soon asI finished that conversion, everything is going
digital and I'm getting rid of allthe physical media and I will have hard

(02:12:31):
drive upon hard drive upon hard driveof wrestling tapes, because that's that was
kind of what got me like inwas that, hey, oh I would
love to see a copy of this. Sure, I got you, and
I'd have you know, Noah whateveryou know show with you know, Kenta

(02:12:56):
and Marafuji against you know, aBushe and Ricky Marvin, and the next
show that I was at done threecopies four copies for people, so you
know, that was my inn andthen helping out and everything, and I
just I think this has been sucha fun conversation and I'm really glad that

(02:13:18):
we somehow have taken those parallel linesand shoved them together to get to know
each other because it feels like we'rein the same place at the same time
far more often than than we weren't. Yeah, except I guess you're out
in the Midwest and primarily out inthe Midwest, and so yeah, I

(02:13:39):
made it a little harder for usto cross paths. But I just I
think this has been such a fascinatingconversation. And I like hearing about the
newer era of a Ring of Honorwhere I wasn't as prevalent and I had
as many shows because I do thinkand and hang it on and I when

(02:14:00):
we started this podcast said we weredoing everything that we can up until the
point that he was fired, whichwould have been in October of twenty thirteen.
Yeah, and then we broke thatrule like once, and then we
broke it a second time, andI think we broke it a third time,
and we were like, all right, we're just gonna do whatever,

(02:14:22):
Like we're not going in order,you know, pick and choose, and
you know, on our clubs gotall the new stuff, so we could
pull that real easy. Instead,I just you know, having me rip
a DVD and throw it on dropboxor Google Drive or wherever, and I
do think we underplay the Sinclair erabecause there are some some moments and stuff

(02:14:48):
from that era. There are thingsthat I wholeheartedly am to this day completely
confused by, and there are otherthings that I looked back on and watched
and I go, wow, thatwas way better than it probably sounded at

(02:15:09):
the time. Um. You know, there's a Bullet Club versus ROH like
ten Man tag from I want tosay Terminal five, uh, or maybe
it was that they were like ayear apart, the two of them,
and I'm it was the first onebecause AJ still oh yeah, and it

(02:15:37):
was so good we ended up watchingit for the pod, like Gallows is
in it, and you know,I think Gallows is hysterical. Do I
want to watch him wrestle? Likeno, not particularly, not because he's
bad, but because like there's timeshe just he knows he's getting his money,

(02:16:01):
he's dogging it and Carl is justas guilty of that as anybody as
well. But I enjoy them asa tag team. M Yeah, I'm
sure everyone's probably had one of thosedays out of wrestling. Yeah, And
I just thought this ten Man wasso well done and it felt like a

(02:16:24):
match you would see in two thousandand five or two thousand and six,
and I remember when we were gettingready to do the show away, I
said, hey, Gario, mainevent. Huh, he goes way better
than it had any right to be. And it's true. Um, So
when you and this is a thisis a final, final question, I

(02:16:46):
guess before I get you your plugsand all that good stuff. Um,
is there a pitnacle, moment,a top moment or show or accomplishment,
um that you check off and say, yep, I did that or I
was a part of that. Youknow, in the moment, it didn't

(02:17:11):
hit me as hard as it probablyshould have. Like the first time I,
you know, produced backstage a livepay per view. It was the
last one who did in Vegas.I just followed nineteen because of the March
of twenty one didn't happen obviously,But yeah, it was just sitting backstage
and realizing I had this responsibility oflike managing all the great you know,

(02:17:33):
the overlays and the replays and whatnot. And it's like trying to think about
the fact that's like, how amI even remotely qualified for this? And
I'm doing it and it's not atall sucking at least not. I don't
think it was. It's just likethe whole fact that I even got into
it, like with you know,no background in TV production short of just

(02:17:56):
like dicking around in high school hereand there or um. You know,
we had like a RINKYDNK TV studioand in the one room that I basically
lived in for most of my senioryear. And that was pretty much the
extent of my TV experience. Andnow I'm you know, producing a live
pay per view. How does thathappen? How it's Honestly, I think

(02:18:24):
those are the things I like tohear, Like there's a genuine enthusiasm for
him. And there's so many peoplethat I've come across in recent years that
you know, you asked them,I go, you know, how's it
going, and like a show orsomething, and there's like ah, or
there's a grunt or grown and youknow there's they take their position for granted.

(02:18:52):
I was so lucky to have gottenit. I mean I never asked
for it. I just I meanI asked to be like accepted in as
whatever level they wanted me to be. I never asked to move up,
but you know, I got offeredto start getting paid for doing ring crew,
and then I got an offer totransfer over to the production crew,

(02:19:13):
which you know, maybe in computerdork is and not trained is probably a
better fit anyway, not that Iminded the physical labor of doing ring crew
by any means, I was allin favor of doing I was all fine
with doing that. But you know, after a decade it did seem to
make sense to you know, takethat spot on the production crew. And
then I guess Chris Resnick left togo to WWE not long after MSG,

(02:19:37):
and like they had an opening.They needed me. They knew me that,
they knew I was reliable, Iwasn't a pain, and they asked
to work with They got along withme, and they're like, do you
want to come on more of theWorld's Tour with us? Yes? Do
you mind running a camera? So? Uh godd sorry sorry man? Uh

(02:20:00):
so Brandon can have a night off, because you know, four nights in
a row having a camera on yourshoulders a painting of the ass and not
having al And you know, ifif the Grand Rapids Show one of the
cameras looked a little off, youknow why. Um I've watched it back
since and there were definitely some thingsI did wrong. Um, but shooting
wrestling is is not exactly something youcan be trained for. No, you

(02:20:22):
have to just do it. It'sjust it is a difficult job. Yeah.
And it's another position that people arenot given the credit or credit is
due. Um they you know hagit or and did ring you know,
did the handheld cam at ring sideway back in the day. And then

(02:20:43):
you know he wrestled also like inthe dark matches, uh, you know
with you know, as he wastraining. Um. It just I think
that's another position that like nobody knowsthe people's name. No, uh,
and they should be given credit becauseshooting wrestling is just watching the camera guy

(02:21:07):
who shoot it is hard. Uh. You know Jimmy Fetterman who did the
camera for r H for years,uh you know in the early days,
like yep. And he was thereup until the buyout. Yes, I
think I believe if we're talking,I think we're talking about sin guy used

(02:21:30):
to wear a Phillies had redis hadYep. I don't remember when Jimmy was
done. Um, he was definitelythere, certainly could have been the Sinclair
buyout was the end for him.Yeah. Um, but there's just so
many people, and I'm really gladwe got to shout out Mark Brown and
Mark Davis, um and Ian andBobby. Uh I thank you so much

(02:21:56):
for your time. Um, we'veDater and Seth as well. Yeah,
the the usual cantel guys. Imean it's it's truly you know, fun
to hear from me as somebody thatwas a fan literally from the very first

(02:22:18):
home release of the Era of HonorBegins all the way through to present day.
And you know, this is mywrestling. So getting to hear you
know, the era that I wasn'taround as frequently for Yeah, UM is
a thrill. So thank you Brianso much for your time. I greatly

(02:22:39):
greatly appreciate it. And this isthis has been fantastic glad to hear,
Glad. I could, you know, not being much of a talker,
glead, I could keep it interestingdefinitely, And uh I'm sure when Hagadorn
is back and ready will there'll bemore uh more invites um for people they

(02:23:00):
need to tell their story. Yeahhis ass. Yeah, Hagen, stop
playing with the cats and writing booksand playing with your baby and almost nine
year old and the life come tothis podcast. I haven't watched any Ring

(02:23:22):
of Honor and weeks get over right. Thanks again, Brian. This has
been a blast. Yeah, it'spleasure. This is where we have that
big jump cut and we get intothe plugs and look ahead. I want

(02:23:43):
to remind everybody for that great interviewwith Brian Bellinger. U. There is
a ton of content available over atpatreon dot com backslash and Honorable Pod content
dropping every day early ad free videosshows so much bonus stuff that you're not

(02:24:05):
gonna have enough hours in the dayto watch said event. So head over
at patreon dot com backslash Honorable Pod, get this interview with Brian Bellinger and
much much more. Over patreon dotcom backslash an Honorable Pod early and get
some new stuff every single day toyourself a salad. Sign up for as

(02:24:28):
low as four dollars a month,and you know, if you want to
get into that twenty dollars tier,you can get some DVDs from me,
like my good friends Scott McConnell,So shout out to Scott. Be sure
to follow us on Twitter and Instagramat an Honorable Pod. You can go
to Facebook dot com backslash an HonorablePod give us a like, show some

(02:24:50):
support over there. You can findme on Twitter at mister Jeff Schwartz zero.
That is also my Instagram handled misterJeff s Zero. Go over to
Facebook search Jeff space Schwartz, Schwartz'sschwartz and you can add me as your
friend. I will click except becauseI like to be friends with everybody.

(02:25:16):
My partner is Shane Hagadorn. He'snot here this week, but he is
at Twitter dot com at Hagedorn,Shane at Hagedorn, Shane on Instagram and
Shane Hagedorn on Facebook. Also besure to follow the backbone of this here
podcast at Code of Honor Book onTwitter. Code of Honor to come into

(02:25:37):
a bookshelf near you and possibly yourlocal library. Who knows, but at
Code of Honor book the History Ringof Honor written by the man himself,
Shane Hagedorn, so be sure tocheck that out, and of course head
over to YouTube dot com Backslash andHonorable Mentioned podcast YouTube dot com Backslash and
Honorable Mention podcast. That is whereall of our on Match of the Weeks

(02:26:01):
appear that Hagadorn selects. That iswhere we have all of our bonus content
so much stuff you can't even shakea stick at it over at YouTube dot
com Backslash and Honorable Mentioned Podcast andPatreon dot com Backslash and Honorable Pod.
Upcoming shows, we of course aregoing to do a couple more Honorable Journey

(02:26:22):
episodes. My friend Joe Condello andmy friend Steve Hoe will be joining me.
I'm hopeful to get doctor Keith Leapinskywhen he is available as well.
And then as far as actual ROHevents that we will be covering in the
near future, Survival of the Fittesttwenty eighteen from Columbus that featured quite the

(02:26:45):
bizarre lineup and is probably the leastfavorite show I've ever attended. We'll also
be covering Death Before dis Honor seven, Night one and Night two in the
near future. Be sure to joinus here every week on the Creative Control
Network where mister Joefeni presents us,and he is on Twitter at j W

(02:27:09):
and E Why three r D andat the CCNE Network one for all of
his news and notes on what's comingto the Creative Control Network. Be sure
to follow our verified Scientists of Sound, our astronaut of Audio, our purveyor
production, the Ace of action figures, the voice of video games, the
bassmaster General, the technician of Trouble, the best broadcast machine, the award

(02:27:30):
winning autocrat of advertisement, the cleanerof audio, mister zach Siel. He's
on Twitter and Instagram at Radio ZT, and he delivers us the best intro
and outro every single week, makingsure that we sound cooler than the other
side of a pillow. Anyone withinformation regarding the murder of my dear friend

(02:27:50):
Carnal Sledge and his friend Kathryn Brownis asked to please call the Federal Borrow
of Investigation for the City of Cleveland, Ohio two one six two six eight
four two two one six two twosix eight four two. Carneal and Kate
were murdered on June fourth, twentynineteen, between five or four and five
thirteen pm in the Rocky River Reservationunder the Lorraine Road Bridge. And you

(02:28:18):
know I say it every week.There's a hundred thousand dollars reward, and
no information has matriculated its way toeither the FBI or the incompetent Metroparks PD.
I beg of you, if youknow anything, please help. I

(02:28:39):
missed my friend Carneal very much.And I think of him every day.
I think of his laugh, Ithink of his smile and his obscenely loud
snoring, and I get a goodchuckle out of it. Carnell is very
much missed by all of our friends, and Cardinal's family as well. I'm
sure the same can be said forKate. I didn't know her, but

(02:29:01):
we only wish that we had justicefor Carnel and Kate and we could all
move on with our lives, rememberingthem fondly, not for how they ended,
but for how they lived their liveson a day to day basis.
Having said that, there's only onething left to do, and that is,
to quote the honorable Mayor of anhonorable mention, sour Naro, no

(02:29:24):
need to trip out. It's timeto dip out, slap the porpoise.
This one is over. We're out. Be kind to one another, keep
your chin up, happy, everythinguntil the next episode. I hope you
take my commentary out of this backbecause I don't want to have anything to
do with it. What I'm asee trees so great, I see them

(02:29:54):
blue, and I think to myself, what I wonderful? I see skies

(02:30:15):
so blue and cris white the brightblessed day, the dark sacred night,
and I think to myself what Iwonderful. The colors of the rainbow so

(02:30:43):
pretty in the sky, are alsoon the faces of people going by.
I see friends shaking hands, sayinghow they're really saying, I don't I

(02:31:07):
hear biggers c I much them grow. They are like much more then I
never know. And I think tomyself what I wonder world. I think

(02:31:33):
to myself what I wonder Yeah,

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 205: Brian Bellinger (Presented by Patreon.com/AnHonorablePod)

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

The Joe Rogan Experience

All Episodes

Episode 205: Brian Bellinger (Presented by Patreon.com/AnHonorablePod)

Stuff You Should Know