Episode 206: An Honorable Journey up North with Scott McConnell

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
This is an Honorable Mention with JeffSchwartz and Shane Hagedorn, part of the
Control Networking podcast. Yeah it's Tuesdayand you know what that means. Happy
two for Tuesday and welcome the chapterof an Honorable Mention, the Essential Ring
of Honor retrospective podcast covering the mostsuccessful independent wrestling promotion of this generation.

(00:24):
I am your host, Jeff Schwartz, and I am delighted to be here
officially on Paternity. Leaves Still ismy co host, our expert analyst,
a head of logistics, all elitewrestling content provider at operations specialist, the
Mayor of Merchandise, the Worry ofthe Way of back Machine, King of
Cage match and Code of Honor authorRing of Honor alumni Shane hagenor Hagen or

(00:47):
not here this week again, butwe do have a pretty fun guest with
a very unique story. Scott McConnellwill be my guest today. And if
you don't know that name, it'sbecause Scott is simply a Ring of Honor
fan, but he's a Canadian Ringof Honor fan. So he hails from

(01:07):
the Great White North in the Toronto, Ontario area, and we'll talk a
little bit today about his journey toRoh, his time discovering Roh at a
very interesting transitional period, not quitethe Sinclair era, but also not quite

(01:32):
the bulk of the Big five ohsixth Gabe era. He was more of
a retroactive Ring of Honor fans.So his approach to his honorable journey is
very different than anybody else we've hadon the show, and I'm really looking
forward to hearing what Scott has tosay. Scott's a loyal patron of patreon

(01:53):
dot com back Slash an honorable podwhere you get the shows early and ad
free. You'll get the shows onvideo if you're part of the twelve dollars
and up tier, you'll get DVDsfrom my personal collection. If you're in
the twenty dollars and up tier duringthe month, and you know, Scott
and I have a really fun discussionon kind of Ring of Honor going forward

(02:21):
but also back in time, youknow, from two thousand and seven to
two thousand and two, forward totwo thousand and ten and eleven and twelve,
and then kind of forward a littlebit further into the Elite years and
then toward the period where the companydropped off, and Scott has a very
unique reason as to why he droppedoff in his interest from Roah, different

(02:46):
from anybody else that I've ever heardexplain it. So we'll hear from Scott.
Here's shortly. Want to remind everyoneand thank you to everyone, including
Scott McConnell, for supporting the show. At Patreon dot com, backslash an
honorable pod. As I said earlyin ad free for as low as a

(03:07):
dollar a week, you can getsome early audio from us, but pretty
much every day there is something postedon Patreon, and some really cool stuff's
gone up recently. You can emailus at an honorable mention at gmail dot
com and our archives all two hundredand six previous episodes plus some bonus shows

(03:29):
available at an honorable mention dot wixsitedot com backslash Maine. That's an honorable
mention dot wix s ite dot com, backslash Maine. We're brought to you
by the Creative Control Network, so'llbe sure to follow the head with the
Creative Control Network mister Joefeney. Heis on Twitter at JWF w any y

(03:50):
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I'm a creative control network. Besure to follow a verified scientists of
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ZT and he delivers us the bestintro and outro every single week, making
sure that we sound cooler than theother side of the pillow. After a
successful first outing, fight Pro Wrestlingis getting ready for their second event,
enter the Fight Round two October twentysecond in Westville, New Jersey, featuring

(04:36):
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(05:00):
Chennai Kai, and many more.Tickets and information at fight pro dot com.
That's fight with two t s prodot com and say fifteen percent off
your tickets for into the Fight Roundtwo when you use the promo code fight
two that's f I G H TT two to say fifteen percent on your

(05:21):
tickets as you enter the Fight Roundtwo with Fight Pro Wrestling October twenty second
in Westville, New Jersey. Wantto hear the ad free version of this
show and get it early. Becomea paid for in today at pagreon dot
com slash an Hoarable Pod. Ifyou become a patron, you'll get early
and add free access to the showwith several tiers to choose from that started

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just a few blucks a month,and each tier comes with more bonus perks
like bonus content, merch and somuch more. Support the show at Patreon
dot com slash an Armable Pod andget early add free access and be worthy
of an honorable men. Well,I think it's time to dive into it.
I think he's worthy of an honorablemention, probably presented by Patreon dot

(06:08):
com Backslash and Honorable Pod, wherehe is not only a member of Patreon
dot com Backslash and Honorable Pod,he is the longest tenured member of Patreon
dot com Backslash and Honorable Pod.Scott McConnell is my guest today to share
his honorable journey. I have noidea I was actually the longest tendered member

(06:30):
actually, so that is fantastic.Jo said, thank you for having me.
Man. Yeah, man, youare. You are the longest running
member and both Shane and I reallyappreciate your support every month. And um,
I guess thank you very much.Before we really get into the nut
and bolts of the podcast, um, what are some of the things you

(06:54):
like over over at patreon dot com, backslash and honorable pod As I shift
into informers mode, Oh well,definitely, I'm a big fan of the
early audio stuff. With that freemakes it a lot more convenient, and
obviously the library is sharing all yourtvts and that it's, uh, it's

(07:15):
really fun to kind of mix thingsup. I know there was a program
series, you know, way backof courtesy of Sugarfoot Alex Pain that he
sent to my way. So allalmost all the programs from the early ro
Oh shows are available over at Patreon, and you know, the DVD collections.

(07:40):
As we've talked about, the physicalmedia is probably going to go away
at some point. Sad but true. It's all gonna be on the hard
drive. But all the stuff thatwas on like I think six different hard
drives, five or six different harddrives, is now matriculated to one big
fourteen terabyte hard drive of pro wrestlingcontent, so plenty to choose from a

(08:07):
Patreon and our patrons get a littlesurprised every Thursday or Friday, hurry get
what day it drops. You neverknow what you're going to see. So
plenty of content and you're going outto the hard drive thing. Yeah,
it's just crazy out would just ripit everything and put it on there and

(08:28):
stuff something. It's a massive tasksfar definitely a time consuming endeavor, and
if you've seen the video on ourYouTube page of my dvd collection, it's
not something that easily is going totake, you know, like a couple
of weeks to just put it inDVD shrink and throw it on the hard

(08:50):
drive. Because some of those thosecases have like sixteen discs inside of them,
so lots of big sets and stuff. But it's all available if you're
patron in the twenty dollars tier andthe twelve dollars tier at patreon dot com.
Back Slash an honorable pod, butyou're not here to discuss the DVD

(09:11):
collection. You're here to talk aboutyour honorable journey, and the very first
thing to talk about with Bring ofHonor specifically is what led to Ring of
Iron, and that is the independentscene. To talk about where you're from,
what the independents are like, andwhat began your quest to go seek

(09:33):
out independent wrestling outside of the WWE, WCW bubble. Well, I'm up
here in Canada and Ontario, andbasically how I found the MP is.
It was really hard because if you'regoing into a video store any kind of
thing like that, it's all WWE. Maybe later more Tia when they got

(09:56):
bigger, but I had no ideaabout any of this. It was called
WWE until my brother came over fromthe supermarket one day with a magazine and
it was Pro Wrestling Illustrated, andI'd never heard of it, and I
opened it up and I was justkind of like, Oh, Wow,
what's what's this TA They had differentrace still around I didn't even know.
And then in that particular issue,there was a spotlight car of the Month

(10:20):
Days to Have and the spotlight thatmonth of November was what became to be
known as Main Event spectacles, andthey were kind of on about the basically
the thing we all know about thatshow. The two things are the amazing
AJ styles Brian Danielson match and themisadventures of Teddy Hart. We'll categorized,

(10:43):
yeah, But basically how they weredescribing it was they didn't want to break
the k babe, so they werekind of saying how it was embarrassing when
he did, but they weren't talkingabout what he actually did, and so
I always kind of stuck him aheadand read me to find out more.
But what really started my journey onthe indies is I used to read in

(11:05):
the PWI and all that about cmpunkand Sam and show's reign and all that
fascinated me. And then one dayI was walking through Future Shop and I
found one of the big Vision releases. I was the best of cmpunk and
Fill and Pact pro Ah. Ihad that, yeah, and I picked
it up and watching through it,I noticed the forty minute or so highlight

(11:30):
reel of him and the eye degradeat seven and that was one of the
first indicators of me like just seeingthe highlights of him and Chris Hero in
that TLC and like see like oh, Wow, these indies are, like,
they do a lot of crazy stuff. I should check them out.
And what also got me really inthe Ring of Honor was there was a
website called Online World of Wrestling inHere in Canada and it was run by

(11:54):
a guy named Brad Dykins and hewould review the DVDs and every time it
was a glorying review because space itwas amazing right at the time, and
that really caught my attention. Thenwhen they came on paper view, I
had don't order that immediately, soit wasn't until two thousand and seven that
I actually first laid eyes on theproduct. That's interesting to me because you

(12:18):
know, we've talked about Respect isEarned and the defunct Sports Endeavors on the
pod before, and it's really it'sreally hard to think of that time frame.
Ring of Honor is now on paperview, but it's a pay per

(12:41):
view that was from two months ago, and there are actually real human people
that are using that paper view asthe first impression of Ring of Honor as
opposed to DVDs and VHS tapes.For you know, the old geezers like

(13:01):
me, and I was always fascinatedto know, like were their commercials advertising
the pay per view? Was therejust something that was like on the internet
that you saw. I was like, oh, rigamater has got a pay
per view, and your cable systemhappened to be one of like seven or

(13:22):
eight that had it. Um,yeah, I actually had How did that
work? Because I shu had noidea that it was so limited what cable
companies had. I guess I gotpretty lucky in that way because I think
Canada was like two cable companies maybehad like the ability to air it.

(13:43):
Because I actually did the replay ement, so I even kai messed the initial
airing game. And wow, soyou were you were one of like ten
people to buy it, but youcount you count as two buys exactly.
I think, if I remember right, the Observer had it to where the

(14:03):
breakdown of who bought it in theStates, who bought it in Canada,
and who bought it wherever else itwas available England or I mean it might
have even just been Canada in theStates, but I mean it was it
was pretty low numbers, you know, under I would say, under eight

(14:24):
thousand, under ten thousand, somewherein that vicinity, and it was like
maybe triple digits all across Canada.Really, I had no idea about anything.
I never I'm always curious about that. What the actual by rate was
for that show. I don't evenknow if it did enough to get a
buy rate. I think it waslike they had the total number of people

(14:46):
that bought it, probably because Gayor Ross told Dave Meltzer and Mike Johnson
and thus it was in print.Yeah, I g so with respect to
Earn being the first viewing, whatwas the initial takeaway? Actually, at

(15:07):
the time, I was kind ofgoing through a real conflict in my wrestling
fandom because up to that point tomy favorite wrestler had been crisped on,
and when all of that had gonedown, I was in a real conflict
about do I even like this anymore? And but I decided I would give
the shot and throw on the Ringof Honor show, And by the time

(15:30):
the Briscoes and Matt Sidown Cassavilli tagmatch had finished, I was like,
I'm never gonna leave this. It'sit's interesting. There's a lot of those
moments of like for me, youknow, two thousand and two, Arab
Honor begins. I had been tapetrading for three years at that point,

(15:52):
and I knew what the indies looklike, but I didn't know they could
be what Daniels and Key and DragonWork or Danielson Daniels and Key. I
didn't know that that feeling was attainable, you know, it's it. I

(16:12):
don't I don't know what the equivalentwould even be. But for other people
it is that Claudio and Matt Sidellversus Briscoes tag manage, that people are
like whoa and the genesis of everyone'sindependent wrestling fandom is so different. That's
why when we do when I dothese Honorable Journey shows, when Nagadorn is,

(16:36):
you know, off doing his adventures, I always find what that that
beginning, that genesis point was becauseit plays into your tastes going forward.
And I I think probably an exceptionin that I hate three way matches,

(17:00):
but that really Dragon Key Daniels matchwas such an impression on me that,
you know, here we are twentyyears later, I still remember that feeling
of wow, what did I justwatch? And so for for you it

(17:25):
was a tag match. Now,were you always a fan of like great
tag team wrestling? Not really?No, like if if ever like a
pay per view had like a tagteam made a bent or something like,
I know TA would do that afew times I would check out. Usually
the only tag matches where I usuallykind of felt anything for them would be

(17:45):
if I saw like an old atwa want on a TV to hear something
like that. But but starting withthat match, it was like tag team
wrestling the game kind of like apriority to me to check out one that's
interesting. I um, you know, I've talked talked about it on the
show a lot that I would takea great tag team match over a great

(18:06):
singles match any day of the week. And I think it's it's very interesting
in wrestling when you look at thejust drastic difference in the athleticism of today's
talent compared to the size and strengthof you know, the eighties and nineties

(18:30):
guys. You know, a teamlike the Steiners fits in today, you
know, pretty obviously. But Idon't know if a team like Demolition or
the Road Warriors or the Skyscrapers forinstance, would fit in today's narrative of

(18:51):
what tag team wrestling is. Theonly way I could see it is if
it was just like they were theone of their kind and that begad like
like an X two and had theascension. Yeah, and then there was
oh Man Paul Ellering managed them Authorsof Pain. Yes, they were a

(19:12):
thing for a hot minute and theywere okay, they just were never healthy.
But with your finding a wrestling intwo thousand and seven, finding a
ring of honor, at least gettingto see it run down, I guess
kind of as you're watching in twothousand and seven, so Respect is Earned

(19:34):
was taped in I believe February,and Eric in may No taped in may
Ard in July. So I guessin July two thousand and seven, you're
watching Respect is Earned for the firsttime, And then what were you seeing
after July of two thousand and seven. Basically I hopped on eBay and out

(20:00):
of the lot because I wasn't usuallyallowed because I was kind of young at
the time, I was not allowedto use my parents card online, so
I had to get my friend's bombto go on her eBay account to buy
any things, and managed to finda lot of about thirteen or so phs
tapes from two thousand and two twothousand and three of the You're All Frat
The Loss of Red cover pictures andwent way over my budget, but I

(20:26):
got it and I finally put itin, got it and got wrote of
the sorry, I wrote to thetitle and put it in and that washed
on from there and kind of caughtup on the history of everything. But
he was a while though, stilllike go. After going through those tapes,
I was able to finally get moreof it because it was very hard

(20:47):
for me to like order something fromthe States with my parents card because they
were very leery about that. Sowe're in Canada, are you middland On
Charios some about two hours from TronNorth Asteron, So you're it's not like
you're in the wild wild West,you know, like in the mountains.

(21:08):
No, but it it is uhan international, you know problem to have
things shipped at times. I knowin my experience buying things from you know,
overseas. I got a Ring ofHonor replica title um of the original

(21:30):
belt. It's literally the only beltthat I will ever buy um. It
just it means so much to mepersonally. It's the only thing, you
know, that I would actually wantto have belt wise and h it came
from Indonesia of all places, andit's beautiful, like everything is the exact

(21:53):
same thing as the original belt.I spent I think like a week comparing
pictures and then actually holding the originalbelt that carry had before it went to
Gresham, like it's the exact samesize and weight. But the process of
getting it from Indonesia to Ohio wasnot easy. They used a shipping company

(22:21):
I had never heard of before,and then it went to an American shipping
company that I had never seen,and then it went to the post office
and then it came. But itwas a process and it probably took a
couple of months, I would sayto be delivered. But with these tapes,
what are some of the matches andwrestlers that you took away from the

(22:45):
tapes on eBay that you were like, these are my guys definitely in those
early years, A ring of honorlo K for sure, that was he
was on a tear and that openingsecret and ever read was just flying to
other outside of like the Cherry LynnRVD stuff in DCW, I had my
DA's even opening sequence to match themto my mind like that, But a

(23:08):
lot of the other guys that mostpeople's favorites are like Dragon and Styles and
Daniels of course, but by guys, that ring of honor have always been
to Briscoes and that honor of faith. Boston match between the two of them
is still one of my fiavorite matches. And I just let's see them go
from their feud and then to bringtheir tag team back, I guess because

(23:30):
when they started against Mark was twoyounger wrestles Philly's and yeah, but they
were. There are matches when ajStyles an amazing rent two were just unbelievable.
Well, now we have you andI have reviewed all three of the
matches that they had. Do youhave a favorite of the three? They

(23:53):
kind of run together in my head, though, but one with them,
I think it's Knighted Champions, wherewith the Urquarada and the Styles clash,
that's my favorite one. I thinkthey in chronological order, I think they
got worse. Not that they werebad by any stretch of imagination, but

(24:14):
I think the first time you seea lot of those spots, it's always
okay, and then you see itagain and you're like, okay, you
see it the third time, you'relike, okay, we've seen this twice
already, Like same order, youknow, yeah, and it's not that
it's bad. It's not. They'regreat tag matches. I think amazing Red

(24:40):
is somebody that in the annals ofRing of Honor because his time there was
so short. You know, ifyou take Ring of Honor as a whole
in twenty years, you know,reds there in two thousand and two,
two thousand and three and then hasone match in two thousand and four.

(25:00):
Really it's not a whole lot,but his importance as being this reinvention of
what pro wrestling was to me,I think his charisma and energy and it

(25:21):
radiated and those fans picked up onit and they believed in him, and
you can see it with him andJay Brisco when they opened Air of Honor
begins as well, the second segmentof the show, but um, the
bus trip kind of was the start, and then his squad and the Christopher

(25:41):
Streets, but um, you knowthat match Jay and Red essentially, for
me, I thought, wow,this is a whole new wrestling. But
this is this is they've re inventedthe wheel definitely, And I don't know

(26:04):
about you, but to me,that was what Ring of Honor did better
than any other promotion. They werecontinually evolving forward and creating new ways to
go Wow. Definitely, they werealways the old slogan that we don't imitate,
we innovate. Yeah, that wasnever more true than that, because

(26:27):
like they were always there was somebodyout there that was redefining wrestling or coming
up with a new way to dosomething. They were able to bring them
in and even like when they broughtin and say the State and Generico and
I'm going to stay the first time, but the second time, it's like
with the Briscoes and the New andjust creating a new way of tag team
wrestling with the Blood Feud, andthere's so many there's so many different you

(26:53):
know, this guy comes in andthen makes an impact and then you know,
in the Gabe era specifically, Gabewould have this depth chart where I
don't want to say like everybody isreplaceable, but if per se somebody had

(27:15):
to go missing for a couple ofshows, there was easily a plug in
play from the top of the carto the bottom of the car, okay.
And I think that is something thatis more important to wrestling companies all
over than wrestling the wrestling itself.Being able to lose a key guy if

(27:41):
it's because injury or you know,illness, or you got to suspend them
or whatever the case may be tobe able to have somebody to go in
that spot. You know, whenwhen TNA pulled aj and Daniels, you
saw the rise of cmpunk, therise of Samoa Joe even further into the

(28:07):
hierarchy of of top guy. Um. You know down the line Brian and
Nigel leave, Kevin and Jennerico gointo those spots as top guys. You
know, you saw the evolution withthe Briscoes where Jay is a top guy,
Adam Cole becomes the top guy.Jay Lethal comes back to Renovan and

(28:30):
becomes a top guy. And it'sthis continuous chain of events through multiple bookers,
top guy, new top guy herethat so and so has to go
to TNA. All right, wellthis guy becomes a top guy. Everybody
is I guess, you know,bigger than because of the way their creative

(28:52):
was was put together. And youknow, Haggard run and I we can
poke some holes in the logic afterthe fact, but at the time,
and I think you can attest tothis as well, you're just sitting there
going wow, oh definitely, yeah, Like you never felt like anyone was

(29:15):
missing at any point, Like Inever found myself thinking like, oh where
this guy, Like if I knewDaniels and aj were gone. But it's
not that they weren't vested. Butat the same time, you had enough
people where it was like you didn'tbeat them on the car necessarily. And
that's just brilliant and speaks to thelevel of talent that they were bringing in.

(29:36):
I think, you know, ascritical as I was of Delirious as
a booker, there was a littlebit more functionality with the roster under him,
to where guys could go off tothe WWE or n XT and there
was somebody to step up. Now, when everybody left to go to a

(29:59):
w that was a different story thatwas bigger than but and with Gabe,
Gabe always had somebody that was readyto step up. He was constantly building
up the roster. With the twoyear or so period that Adam Pierce was
booking, I thought the shows wereI thought the shows were solid, but

(30:29):
I don't think the roster depth wasthere, and that was solely due to
the budget and it was. Itwas a discernible difference. So I don't
think we should penalize Adam Pierce forthat. I do think he had some
pretty creative ideas and executed well asa booker. And I think Adam is

(30:51):
never going to be given the credithe deserves because he replaced Gabe. That
is, you know, a massiveshoe to phil Um. When you started
actually watching Roah in July of ohseven. Just to put things into perspective,
you're only getting a year and threeand a half months of Gabe Sapolsky

(31:14):
as a book. Yeah, it'scrazy to think about actually, But mostly
for that period of what I wasdoing was also going back and watching a
lot of stuff and really getting thatkind of appreciation. Like when they released
those compilation Davides with the co vision. That was a huge awesome moments.
Go back and see all those matchesand things like O case where I want

(31:36):
to put my money into. Yeah, that was m That was a really
important period. Um, I don'tthink those really sold well. The was
it Cotch I think was the companycoach. Yeah, Koh Tree, who
guessed it on the show, wasresponsible for putting together those those relations.

(32:00):
That was his deals. They weregreat. We referenced that in the edition
of an Honorable Journey that we didwith Tree. Um I'm on the DVD
cover of one of those, whichone I have no idea. Yeah,
I'm in between Samoa Joe's legs ashe's fighting Kobashi. Okay, that's in

(32:21):
the world, and that is Ithink that would be it um and there.
It's too dark in here to seeover to the shelf, but I
know that side of the shelf isfacing me there, so you're you're in
all in, so to speak.In two thousand and seven into the Roah
fandom, are you on the messageboard sadly though? Okay, let me

(32:45):
replace one of the words you justuse there, thankfully instead of sadly,
because then you would have had areally negative impression of me, and that
wouldn't be good. We can't befriends if of a negative impression of me.
Terrible. But the message board,I think, yeah, there was

(33:08):
a lot of bad there, likedon't get me wrong, but there's also
a lot of really good discussion anddebating and a lot of friendships and brotherhood's
created. And with you being inCanada, unfortunately, you know a lot
of the ROH Canadian fan base.I know, like my friend Jacob cullen

(33:29):
Um, he's a Toronto guy,Jonathan Tykeman also Toronto guy. Um,
you know they were a little lateto the party, I guess for the
message board. Um, but theywere also late to the RH bandwagon.

(33:51):
UM, so they came even afteryou those guys. Aside, you know,
being in Canada, did you haveother fans of ROH that you could
at least chat about what was goingon? Mostly in my way of keeping
up with everything and finding out whenthe checkout was just going on YouTube and

(34:14):
watching people's reviews interesting and sometimes Iwould buy bigger gals, So so I
had a YouTube account there and Ialways commented something I would regret in the
end. So that's sort of likeI got the same feeling in the best
report in the way there. Iwish I could delete some of those now,
but well, thankfully Kevin Stein camein and blew up the ROH message

(34:36):
board before Sinclair purchased the company,So I do remember that. Yes,
you know, the the js WOlegacy is dead the way Back Machine and
Hagarn will occasionally show me things onthere, but I'm not rovoll versed in
finding things. That's that's his department. But so you're watching the shows,

(35:01):
you're watching the YouTube. You're gettingDVDs occasionally, Um, what's the first
show, what's the decision to go? Look like, how excited were you?
And lay it all on me?I'm laying out Okay. So I

(35:22):
was wanting really badly because it's prettyfast forward to twenty and ten when I
finally was able to get the permissionto go to these kind of shows,
and I was dead set on goingto I think it was Death Towards Honor
eight that year, but unfortunately circumstancesI could not go, and I've regretted
it ever since. And but Isaid the next show, I'm definitely going.

(35:45):
There's no way that I'm missing it. And I was able to convince
my uncle to take me, mybrother, and my cousin, who were
huge fans down to Toronto, Toronto, Mississauga actually for a Fate of an
Angel too. And pulling up tothe International Center anyone that's ever been there
in a warehouse basically and walking upand seeing the sign that said ROH wrestling

(36:08):
with It DR was like falling offthe sign and just think I'm like,
oh, okay. And then seeingZach gall would walk in through the vans
and it's like my experience at thispoint of live wrestling was just wwway.
So I'd never been to any kindof Indy, so it was it was
sort of it was surreal in away. And then just walk into the

(36:30):
desk and getting fourth row tickets onthe day of, but walking in and
just seemed basically a warehouse with aring in it. But once the lights
went down and the music started up, the Locomotive Threat and all that,
and it's just like this is it'sjust ring them on. This what I've
been wanting to see forever, andjust everything spa away and I was focused

(36:52):
on everything that was going on.It was Some would say that's probably not
the best show, but it's stillmy first show and always have a special
place in my heart. So everybody, I got close my web browser on
my phone, I'm looking up thecard for Fate of an Angel two and

(37:13):
uh, I'll kind of run throughit real quick. Okay, it from
what I remember. I don't knowif Shane and I have done this show.
I don't believe we did, butit comes between Survival of the Fittest
twenty ten and Tag Title Classic two, which we've done, and it h

(37:37):
It was November thirteen, twenty ten, and so dark match wise you had
Danny Duggan or Dugan and Kama Kazitaking on Ashley six and Rip Impact.
And two I know from that matchfor six or Rip Impact because they were
fairly irregular on the nbcne here anduh Rip Impact is somebody Hagdorn's put over

(38:00):
as a really hard worker for likecrew to get a you know dark match.
Oh yeah, when when Chris Herowas doing his big three hour matt
for an LS, most of thatmatch with him against Rip Impact. So

(38:21):
if I remember correctly, the showopened up with just basically Eddie Edwards coming
out and forming everybody wouldn't be wrestlingthat night, but which is probably a
bummer because that's probably one of thetop draws at the time of people you
want to see right exactly at him. But the card was originally I think
it was him against Jericho for theTV title, so that was a magical
I was really excited for. ButI would just say card subject to change.

(38:45):
Yeah, I mean if you lookat the rest of this show,
so I would be remiss if Ididn't mention the other dark match, which
is Bobby Dempsey and his World's bestfriend, Grizzly Redwood, man of the
People, and from what I hear, one of the greatest referees and all
the independence they took on Elgin andZach Gowen representing House of Truth. Truth

(39:12):
is Ringside, Mark Briscoe and AndyRidge. We've got Sarah do and that's
a part of eighty Ridges trial seriesthat went nowhere. Sarah Doray beat Jamilla
Craft. You've got the All KnightsKing Rat Titus over Cabana and Jennerico for
an r H tag title shot.Poland O'Reilly over the Bravados, Harlem and

(39:37):
Lance. By the way, Harlemand Lance, if you're listening, UNC
Sucks and Homicide over Jay Briscoe renewingtheir rivalry, Kings of Wrestling over Kevin
Stein and Steve Corino retaining the worldtag team titles. Kings of Wrestling have
Shane hagget Ron in their corner,and the main event is Roger Strong defeating

(40:00):
Christopher Daniels to retain the Ring ofHonor world title and Max That went a
shockingly long thirty five minutes and twentyone seconds. It did. Yes,
that's pretty wild. It was,Yeah, because I think I remember correctly
that was Roger's first titled events too. Uh yeah, because they would have

(40:23):
been doing TV at that point inthe last major show prior to that would
have been unless he defended it thenight before or the show before it,
Survival of the Fittest. I don'tknow, I can't remember. But if
you look at that show on thewhole, like let's say, you know,

(40:49):
you have I don't know, tworoh Hall of Famers and Daniels and
Strong on top. The Briscoes arethe Kings of Wrestlinger. There, Steina
Jenarico, Carino, you know,the All Nights I mean, there's a

(41:09):
lot of talent there. This isnot like a depleted Adam Pierce Arra roster.
And you know homicide as well.I mean, god, how can
we forget he's a Hall of Fameras well for the honorable mentioned Hall of
Fame, of honor of which Ibelieve you're a voter. Um. Plus
you have Adam Cole, Kyle O'Reillytwo future Oro which world champions Adam Cole

(41:32):
multiple times over, and I thinkwe shouldn't you know mention that Adam Cole's
a true sweetheart, like literally oneof the nicest human beings. On the
planet. Um So this night Fateof an Angel two in Ontario, do
you get to meet any of thetalent? Are you buying merch? Are

(41:55):
you what's the live show experience?Actually? Yeah, before the show started,
actually they were having a trading cardconvention in another part of the building,
and I think the time schedule waslike Jim Cornet was first, then
Kings of Wrestling, and then Cavannaand Daniels were doing as signing And I

(42:16):
got there for Cabanna and Daniels andCole was kind of talking to somebody else,
but I managed to have a conversationwith Daniels and that was pretty crazy.
Like I see, as you saidon the show many times, he's
just the nicest guy, the gooddoctor. Yeah, and I kind of
asked him one question was just kindof like, oh, do you know
where the show is? And hekind of gave me directions around the building

(42:37):
to murb would be. But onething I do remember both that too,
is apparently Jim Cornet that was theshow where he was banned from entering Canada,
So I remember him on his podcastgoing off about the country, and
that's kind of one of my disillusionmentwith him started, but I think it's

(42:57):
interesting, and that's a subject thatwe hagger I've never really explored on the
show. And he's gonna yell atme because I said I think it's interesting.
But that's like a cop out forme. Um the Cornet disillusionment.
I love the Midnight Express, Yes, and that's the wrestling I you know,

(43:22):
abusively rented on VHS over and overand over was as much w CWNWA
Crockett that I could get my handson. Yes. However, when he
went to the WWF in ninety three, I want to say, maybe Lum

(43:47):
and they were doing the whole yokozunathing, like I still had some respect
for his knowledge and the management.I didn't know about the business side or
his philosoph to be on wrestling.And it's interesting you mentioned that this is
the time frame where you're starting toget disillusioned with Jim, because it's very

(44:09):
similar for me as well. Youknow, he had a podcast back then
that I'd listened to and he'd ripon independent wrestling, and you know he
still does. And I don't wantto say that you can separate the manager

(44:30):
from the really bad hot takes,because I don't think I can. I
just yeah, I look at theMidnight Express now very differently, not as

(44:51):
far as their in ring stuff goes, but what they mean overall to wrestling.
Now that I've heard all the nonsensewith Gin, I'm still I'm still
a fan of Ox Selective Nights becauseI can still watch him like help the

(45:12):
old tapes and that I can kindof separate it, and still I still
think it's great. But and wheneverhe's talking like tell stories about the old
days and now it was back then, I kind of fine with that.
As when he starts talking current thatI just check out it. Yeah,
I mean, and I'm a verymuch a fan of Memphis wrestling, as
you've heard me talk about on theshow before. I love Memphis and Tennessee

(45:34):
wrestling, and how you sent mea playlist for Robert Fuller's promotion CCW Coastal
Championship, so like Alabama Golf Coastof Florida, and I'm super intrigued to
really get into watching it and kindof learning and exploring a different version of

(46:00):
wrestling. Yeah, I guess youknow there is a way to separate the
old school from the new school.But me, I just have gotten so
I know what my tastes are,and I don't envision anything changing my tastes.

(46:21):
My tastes are actually similar to gems. However, I can appreciate and
respect what fast paced dragon Gate stylewrestling looks like. Yes, I'm not,
I'm not gonna go out law mudshow. It's not. These guys are
infinitely talented and athletically gifted. It'sa different style of wrestling. Not all

(46:45):
wrestling fits in a box. No, I mean, if it comes out
of a box, it's probably over. But nevertheless, it's great about the
wrestling as the variety and something foreverybody. That's what Ring of Honor was,
Yes there was you. If youlook at this Fate of an Angel

(47:07):
two card right, any match onthis show, you're getting something different.
Mark Bristo probably squashed Andy Ridge heavily, Okay, took him rather great.
Do you have this abusive, hardhitting trial series style of match. Then
you have the All Nights against Cabanaand Jennerico in like a high pace,

(47:32):
hard hitting, high energy tag match. Then you have Cole and O'Reilly versus
the Bravados, which is probably similarto more of a modern style tag team
match. Definitely you know, fastpaced, a little bit of strong style.
You have the old school brawl withHomicide and Jay Brisco. You have

(47:53):
the Kings of Wrestling, who Ithink are one of the greatest tag teams
of all time and my personal favoriteROH tag team of all time, even
ahead of the Briscoes. You're wrestlingSteve and Stephen Stein, the Carino and

(48:14):
Steen, and that's an interesting conflictof styles, so I'd be curious to
see what that looks like. Andthen Roddy and Daniel's going thirty five minutes
is your classic main event act.That Ring of Honor is kind of made
their hall bark over the years,so that in itself maybe not the greatest

(48:36):
show of all time, but stilla palette of matches where everything is different.
Definitely, and definitely up to thatpoint, the best show I've been
to it at all periods, SoI was helping. Was there anything,
um you know that you remember about, like participating with the crowd, because

(49:00):
I feel like Ring of Honor crowds, especially the earlier you go to,
like two thousand and two, soI would say somewhere in the two thousand
and twelve twenty thirteen range. Andthen the Bullet Club era is kind of
its own little entity. Um,those were intense places to be really yeahs.

(49:27):
But the crowd, it was theenergy was great, and um,
I didn't there was a lot ofthe you know, the smarting kind of
chance and that WHI show We're fine, but just to was not overdone.
Um. I do remember there wasone guy though, during Jay and Homicide
where when they were brawling on theoutside, he stood and held up a
chair at the guardrail and Homicide threwJay into it, and that was finding

(49:51):
I was moment. But then duringthe main event he tried to do it
again and I think blew a spotand then security had to come in like
drag him out sort of them.But there's always going to be that over
zealous fan that tries to make hispresence known, um. And that that's

(50:12):
wrestling in general. You know.Um, when you're watching this show and
you're sitting there and you went withyour uncle and your cousin, you said,
my cousin and my brother, ouruncle Drolls just kind of sat in
the car waiting after Oh man,he should have gone in and bought a
ticket. Saw the wrestling stories tothink. But so you have family that's

(50:36):
there with you, you know,taking in this endeavor and it's something you
guys can share and bond over.And I remember taking my brother to his
first ROH show and you know,really enjoying that feeling of being the older
brother guiding my younger brother. Um. And he didn't really stay a wrestling
fan, but loves Orange Cassidy,which you know, how could you not

(51:02):
in terms of that period, SoData Angel two, what's next next would
be as far as attending shows wouldbe Revolution Canada. I shoot the twenty
eleven I believe available in the archivesindeed, and I remember actually two around
that time. It was very tumultuoustime a scene for a Ring of Honor,

(51:24):
because like going on the website,like just seeing the dates get shorter
and shorter and just saying best inthe world getting closer and closer, and
nothing coming up after it, andjust wondering like this kind of like yeah,
as I said, for something likeit, just wanting to make the
most of this show, like andI actually managed to convinced two of my

(51:44):
friends along with my brother and mycousin to come with me, and they
were huge WMA fans. I'd loveto say, I made two converts that
night, but silent was not tobe. But I do remember venue though
being a lot because the ted raveOf Arena is actually like a Honky arena,
so it's more of it felt likean actual like venue. It was

(52:07):
opposed to be the Oir National Center. But and I do remember the card
being absolutely penomenal. That Chris HerodeddyEdwards match is still like best match I've
ever seen live. The Rev Canadashow. I remember when we covered both
of those shows. Um, it'sit's it's a really really strong show.

(52:30):
Yes, top to bottom. II think it's impressive looking back, you
know, it's delirious. His firstweekend of booking, Yeah, I I
if my memory serves, I dobelieve that would be the first weekend.

(52:51):
Um maybe no, I'd be wrongin that. Um he did the Team
vs. Before that. Pierce waslet go after Gory Buy Honor Rev Canada.
So yeah, he did TVs andthen he May This was the first

(53:12):
one he did in Canada, butit was set to serve as kind of
like a the rebirth things. Sothe date for REV Canada is May six,
twenty eleven. Okay, basically,so shortly thereafter Sinclair Bys Ring of
Honor in the coming weeks leading intoBest in the World, which was the

(53:37):
first Sinclair Ring of Honor show andREV Canada. He had a dark match
the Flatliners taking on Alex Bird andRip Impact. Alex Bird is Alex Bird,
for those who don't know, isone of the most important people in

(54:00):
all of wrestling right now, andhe is better known to the world as
Sean bird Car and he is thering crew man for aw So if you
watch Dynamite and go on you knowRampage in the pay per views, Bird

(54:23):
is the man that makes sure thatring is is in ship shape along with
ringside. I'm proud to call Birdmy friend. That's awesome. I am
going to actually yeah, it's probablyone of the only Bird matches in ROH.
And he was in Chikara as thesnow Troll. Okay because as well

(54:49):
Yea as a court actually missed thatmatch. I was like getting to the
venue. So we've got Claudio KyleO'Reilly. That's a match I'd like to
see. In twenty twenty two,OS Mike Bennett, Steve Corino, Michael
Elgin with Truth Martini against Adam Cole, Andy Ridge. The Great Grizzly Redwood,
Rhet Titus and Tomasso Champa with awhole crew at ringside. Good bord

(55:15):
mi A, m mister Ernesto Cyruswho this weekend if you're listening on Patreon,
UM fight Pro doing his first showUM for the Fight Pro promotion.
They're going to be in New Jerseytonight. If you're listening on Saturday morning,
so you're in the New Jersey area, get over and check out fight

(55:37):
Pro f I g htt they presentthis show. So, mister Arnesto Cyrus,
Princeton, Ardi Evans all in thecorner of Tomasso Chompa. You know
this is a double danger scramble match, so in an interesting match. Nonetheless,

(55:58):
Davy Richards and Kenny King, Cabanaand Delirious in the Larry Sweeney tribute
match, and I know that's awonderful tribute to the late great Larry Sweeney.
And we have El Generico Christopher Daniels. Daniels is in the House of
Truth at this point, Wrestling's greatesttag team allegedly taking on the Briscoes and

(56:27):
our main event Eddie Edwards and ChrisHero. Chris Hero seconded by Sarah del
Rey and Shane Haggitor and for therh World title and as we've mentioned on
the show, Eddie and Chris justtore the house down. It's a balls
to the wall match, one ofthe greatest RHH World title matches in the

(56:50):
history of the company and a criminallyunderrated match title ring too for Eddie and
yeah, it should have been alot longer. Um that was one of
the big swings and misses of theDelirious era. But you know, Jim
Cornett also partly responsible for the bookingat this point, So thumbs down that.

(57:16):
So you're you're at the point nowyou've gotten your second ROH show.
What are you seeing as a differencein between in that seven month time gap,
remember December seven months Look at me, I can do math as far

(57:37):
as the tip, well, basicallythe difference that I'm any difference, I
know, it's just the show isbecoming less and less frequent and almost like
I don't know if it felt likeit felt like an end of an era
in the consort just because of likehearing rumors that Carry wanted to sell the
company and stuff. But then ofcourse the shock gate edwards the title win,

(57:57):
which I was a fan of eventhough it gets people figured Davy was
taken from them the best of themorning. But I was as as far
as changes, uminite, I thinkof the thing drastic and between that,
I would say more between the secondshow and the third show, Border Wars
wouldeople the big changes came in.Yeah, I mean you you got to

(58:22):
see you know. What I wouldsay is the classic Ring of Honor show
with Rev Canada and more of aI don't want to say a B show
because it definitely doesn't have the Bshow line up, but kind of a
smaller step down from like the bigCanada shows. Yes, and then you

(58:45):
mentioned Border Wars and there were someof us in the States that got to
see Border Wars, Yeah, throughGo Fight Live or or I should say
we got to see parts of BorderWars They're Go Fight Live. Um I
was one of those people that gotto see part of the show. Um.

(59:09):
So I guess, you know,over the three shows, and I'll
run down the Border Wars card ina second, but over those shows,
you know, pull out some ofyour favorite moments in matches or anything that
I guess is a non in ringOkay, say oh my little the memories

(59:37):
of the trip going to Revolution,Canada, remember well because getting their late,
seeing the parking on film and havingto go down different subdivisions in Toronto
trying to find parking and then thinkingwe found a great spot in the near
the venue of pulling over them,realizing after the venue we parked a fire
hind Ran had a big ticket waitingfor us. And also it left our

(59:59):
chef has plugged in so that ourcar engine was dead. Oh yeah,
man, so so how does thatwork in you guys have like Triple A.
We managed to buy some luck toget to get to work again,
but it was a start perfect.It was a pretty scary situation. But
man, yeah, I get toldwith far Idrin too. So I actually

(01:00:25):
had a fairly similar situation about ayear and a half ago. I don't
even think the COVID vaccine was out, so it might even been even longer
than that where I had I literallyhad no food in my house and needed
to go to the grocery store.And I went, got my car,
car wouldn't start. Cars in mygarage would not start, and I had

(01:00:51):
to have the guy from Triple Acome out and you know, get my
battery going, and uh, i'dnever you know, I'm like trying to
keep my distance and this is inmy garage of all places, like you
know, and he's just like,oh no, man, it's cool,

(01:01:14):
don't worry about it. Like I'mgood, I don't have COVID And I'm
like, well, I don't knowthat, So you touch the car.
I'm gonna go in the house andstarve for a little while longer. And
I think I waited like two hoursafter he left to go air sanitize around
my car and then go to thegrocery store. Yeah, it was fun,

(01:01:36):
fun times in the cod the COVIDera that we will forever be stuck
in. But aside from that littletravel gaff on the way home, like
still fun pranks in the car,you know, Shenanigan. Wise, you
said you were about two hours fromthe venue drive wise, that's a I

(01:02:00):
wouldn't say it's an extensive drive,but you know, it can be.
It can feel like it at times. You've got to have a little fun
in the car, right, Ohyeah, definitely put the drumming on the
backseat sort of just like throwing thethrowing water bottles at each other and just
keep it playing. The license plategame, as you always do. But

(01:02:21):
I don't get many people do that. But what is the license plate game?
Basically try and see you as thefunniest custom license plate and then whoever
gets the funniest one lends Basically,okay, so we would do the punch
bug if you saw Volkswagen Beetle.Oh yeah, punch punch in the arm.
That was always a thing for likelong road trips for us, but

(01:02:45):
that was a thing on the walkto school usually for me and my friends.
We uh, because a lot ofthe shows that I would go to,
especially in the early days, youknow, post March two thousand and
four, I was going by myself, so it was more me talking myself
awake or singing along with with songsin the car. Um. And there

(01:03:12):
were you know, some drives fromfrom other shows that just drives home after
like a long show in recent timeswhere oh there's the six hour phone call.
Yeah, it is a thing,and it gives you a greater appreciation
for the travel of what the wrestlersgo through when they're traveling. Um.

(01:03:37):
And I'm sure I couldn't even imaginethat you would have to keep yourself sane
because even going to this shows latelyand I go to shows with an aline
now it's about six hours from myhouse and having a last podcast all the
time just to keep myself awake andhanging or and Jeff Schwartz keeping you awake

(01:03:58):
on yourself. You have saved mefor many appearing on the road, Jack,
Oh, you're welcome. Uh So, like I guess, before we
get into border war, as youmentioned the wrestling in Ottawa, what is
the independent scene like in Canada?Is there any standouts? There's a there's
a I'd say there's a few.Actually yeah, there's uh Smash Wrestling out

(01:04:21):
in Toronto, which do a lotof great work. They just had their
big show back after the pandemic.Because I guess as COVID and everybody already,
Okay, it's pretty hard as well, not only just in terms of
companies shotting down with them. Alot of the talent's gone other places now,
but um over in Obtawa, Ifrequent the promogency for Okay, they

(01:04:44):
are quite there and they're quite excellentand uh standards. As far as the
wrestlers, I'm really a big fanof it. You're rebably the bread Banks.
I know the name U He's aguy that it's really noticed. Really
tough for the independent wrestlers in Canadato get that exposure in the States,

(01:05:05):
because whereas Britain had their big independentrenaissance and everybody kind of focused over there
and that like nobody's really paying it. It feels like roost on an island
almost sort of in the case,he's in the way well, and I
think a lot of it is creditdue to New Japan for partnering up with

(01:05:27):
companies in the States, companies inEngland. They've been able to take their
guys that aren't necessarily a focal point, like my favorite wrestler, Minor Suzuki,
and send him to England for RevPro and let him have an extended
run there, send him to theStates for a couple months and let him

(01:05:48):
do you know a match with OrangeCassidy or you know, the Brian Danielson
match or the Joe match. Hedid a match in Cleveland with a guy
named Isaiah Broner, who I thinkis going to be a pretty well known
name to get signed either a WWEor AW at some point. He's a

(01:06:12):
Michigan guy, so he may matriculatehis way up across the border. But
that's the biggest problem is you know, for a lot of like Major League
Baseball, for instance, for teamsthat are playing the Toronto Blue Jays,
all their players have to be vaccinatedor they can't go to Canada. Yes,

(01:06:33):
so for instance, the Guardians playedthe Blue Jays maybe a month month
and a half ago, one playercould not go. He happens to be
in the game right now for theGuardians, James Karena Chack, who's one
of our best relief pictures. Ifyou are vaccinated as a wrestler, I

(01:06:56):
don't know how you're getting into Canadaexactly. Yeah, it's good pretty well,
possibly even for Canadians sometimes try andget it just because we have nowadays
we have to download even an appnowoul to get in to get Canada shows
all of our approof of vaccination.Event it's uh, things are not as
easy to just come and go anymore. And I'm fine with rules and regulations

(01:07:20):
as far as the safety and thingsof that nature goes. Trust me,
I've not had COVID knock on wood, Um, I'm I'm scheduled for my
omni crome booster this week. I'mvery excited and no I am not a
big fan of needles. I donot. This would be where's like,
oh you gotta you gotta needle problem? Now, No, I don't.

(01:07:46):
But it is not as easy totake a loop in Canada for the way
it used to be. You know, Cabano would do that where he could
Canada for a month do shows.Um and even uh. The other thing
I would done with been happening toowas just even guys going down from Canada
the States and then to work.Piece of situation where they had like saved

(01:08:09):
like Mike Bailey or the Smash Brothersand they got caught and then they had
they were out for five years orso. Slesia Sparks. That's another one,
yep, Um, she got aten year band. If I remember
wi um Ethan Page moved to theStates because of you know, yeah and

(01:08:29):
one of our best indies, AlphaOne, And I don't think he's doing
it anymore because it really gives theowner he was, Yes, he was,
um and Ethan's a great guy.Um, yes, yes, you
know he was very fortunate. Youknow, he would come down to Cleveland
for AIW for a long time,and I think the world of him is
a wrestler. I really do.Yes, he's one of best. I

(01:08:55):
wish I got to know him alittle bit better. Um, because he's
much like me. He's he's atoy guy. Yes, so that would
have been a fun, fun conversationpiece to have with him. But we
knew he's a heel. You don'tsocialize with the heels. But we we
we go back from our Canada Independentdiscussion, we head over to Border Wars

(01:09:16):
and Border Wars ted Reeve, Maytwelve, twenty twelve, so almost a
year in between Rev Canada and BorderWars. Um, and this show is
really interesting to me. You gota dark match of Grizzly Redwood over Delirious.

(01:09:39):
I would say that is a properbooking decision if I ever heard one.
I believe Delirius is a surprise too. I assume this is because they
didn't have like that extra person thatcould help, so he just needed to
do the match. Um, buthappy a League Grizzly went over. We

(01:10:00):
love Grizzly Redwood here on this show. Uh Eddie Edwards over Rhino the All
Nights and uh t J Perkins takingon the Young Bucks and their partner.
Boy, is this an odd Mix, Mike Mondo, who uh Jay Lethal

(01:10:24):
Tomasso chompa Lance Storm over Mike Bennett, which that had to be cool to
see Lance Storm wrestle. Oh yeahit was. And uh yeah, they
brought up Jimmy Corder's as well todid the special referee plant match. That
was really cool too. That's athat's a really cool moment. And you
know, having seen Lance a coupleof times in ROH, he is somebody

(01:10:49):
that didn't overstay his welcome. Healways had value and I think a lot
like red Um in the early daysof our Age and then into the grand
scheme of things for our Age,land Storm is another one of those guys
who was just so damn good,like there was no flaw in his in

(01:11:15):
ring work, always perfection. Evenbringing him as one of the guys that
Brian pertained the title over is raisingthe prestige of the Belot like his first
big names of Briant really like asfar as like w Advance would be that
Brian paid from the belt and kindof really like credibility to the Belot absolutely
and it's most important belt in wrestlingat the time, you know, So

(01:11:41):
anything you can do to lend credibility, and here the credibility is going to
Mike Bennett by just sharing the ringwith Lance Storm and having what I remember
to be a fairly competitive match.Yes. And then Elgin and Adam Cole,
who eventually would face off for theRhE World title. Um, Fit
Finlay and Roderick Strong, And Imean we recently covered Fit Finlay and Michael

(01:12:11):
Elgin, Um, this is anotherone where I just I love fit Finlay.
I view him as one of myfavorites of all time. I mentioned
when we covered the Elgin match,the regal Finlay uncensored ninety six match being

(01:12:31):
my all time favorite WCW match,and for whatever reason, he just didn't
fit. I don't have That wasthe match I was most looking portant of
that card at the Daily State,I think, and yeah, I just
wasn't working. And then, speakingof things that don't work, you get

(01:12:53):
to see a fight without Honor ofHaws and Benjamin, Wrestling's alleged greatest tag
team defeat the Briscoes, So youget to see that matchup twice yep,
and with the infinitely worst finish thistime around. Yes, one hundred percent.
And then Kevin as you mentioned,defeated Davy Richards and it to me

(01:13:18):
is an iconic main eventum to goingback to the baseball talk back in the
I guess recent Four Days of theJays, I within the wild card game
when Editcarnassian knocked it out of thepark and that is the only kind of
PANDEMONI and I in compare to wentsteam won that title. So you the

(01:13:44):
fact you brought up Edwind Incarnacio andmakes me smile because he is like one
of the very few free agents thatthe Guardians retained in their previous incarnation as
the Indians, and he was onlyhere for I think two seasons, and

(01:14:06):
that guy made himself so beloved inthe community. The parrot thing from when
he would run around the bases aftera whole run. He was the connection

(01:14:26):
between him and the fans. Youknow, you'd see like the blow up
giant parrot in the outfield in Jacob'sField, Progressive Field at the time.
There was that really just organic connectionand that was the Kevin Stein connection to

(01:14:46):
the crowd. Yes, he justslowly became a pillar. It wasn't like,
Okay, here's our new guy that'sgoing to be the top heel champion.
I also have a baby face.You know, he's a stone cold
baby face essentially. I hate thatcop out, but it's what it is.

(01:15:09):
Yeah, And he's just the fansare just gonna like him, like
he's gonna do all these bad things, and the fans are gonna like him
because he's just that personable and entertainingand fun to watch. And then Incarnacione
was exactly that. He didn't doanything when he played in the field,

(01:15:30):
but when he came up to theplate and he hit a ball four hundred
and fifty feet, the crowd goeswild. Yeah. Um, so important
that that connection, and Dame wasjust so great at getting that and even
like after that, professing the worldthere when he was kind of probably daring
the fans to turn on him andthey wouldn't. He's a guy that also

(01:15:57):
has the rare trait to where hecould go to any promotion, whether it's
Ring of Honor, WWE, NXT, not that there are any different,
but different audiences, you know,the tastes of the audiences are different.

(01:16:20):
PWG CZW Jersey all Pro I wsC four. I saw him do a
four way with I think Stu uUno and maybe Generico actually years ago.
I mean I have a couple ofC four DVDs. I couldn't even tell

(01:16:45):
you the year, but it wasforever ago. And Kevin is the same
guy everywhere. Like, I don'tthink Kevin could ever undergo a gimmick change.
Oh, it wouldn't work, Itwouldn't be believable because Kevin Stein,
Kevin Owens, whatever, it's thesame thing. Yeah, it's him,

(01:17:11):
that's that's that's the again, it'sa stone cold. They'd be like,
yeah, I have self turned upto one hundred, basicly, And I
do think that Kevin Owens, KevinStein, his impact Honoring of Honor in
these years kept the company alive inspite of the story that he was out
to kill Ring of Honor. Youknow he He and Jennerico obviously are always

(01:17:36):
going to be tied together. No, even though Jennerico is busy running his
orphanage now Sammy Zane has taken hisplace, there's always going to be that
pairing between those two. And thatpairing shows up in the form of a
box at the end of this match. That was actually all right, I

(01:17:57):
think that might have actually been floorviolent or actually is that Gloria Browner,
So was this what what was thetie in? Was it? Was there
a tie in with this? UM? I think it was just I think
from what I remember correctly, Ithink is that Generico was backstage or actually,
though I don't think that Jared wasstanding Stain actually was backstage and had

(01:18:20):
signed his contract that night. Thinkis it? I think is what had
happened. Okay, maybe I'm misrememberingor mistiming things, but I think it
was after a penned elegant when theycame out with the box and had the
mask and in Okay, so itwould have been the next Canada loop through

(01:18:41):
UM. But regardless, I mean, it's the impact of kevin'stein Kevin Owens
on Roh in the Indies in generalin Canada too. I mean it it
is so strong, and I thinkthere is a very big separation between you

(01:19:03):
know, the Joe Brian punk Umhomicide era to the Kevin Generico, Um
Jay Brisco Jay lethal like that Sinclairera of topic. But it's different.

(01:19:24):
That doesn't mean it's worse, ohexactly. UM. Other than some of
the I would still say Border Warsis a very good show in spite of
some of the more questionable decisions onthe show. But at the end of
the day, yeah, it's italso feels like Ring of Honor though,
And that's that's the key, iswhy do these shows feel so special?

(01:19:54):
Question? Because that's that's the eternalquestion for these Honorable Journey episodes, is
why I was RH so special?Just it was it felt so it was
something that they presented a product tothat was just so different from like all
the other promotions. It felt likeit took itself way more seriously, like

(01:20:17):
and as you discussed their previous oneday the name too, just Ring of
Honor and just the content and like, and it felt even though it was
small, it felt big, Likeit felt like you were witnessing the beginning
of something important. And I thinkthere's an art to giving that vibe.

(01:20:42):
I just don't know what it is. I know, Yeah, and there's
a lot of wrestlers that I've talkedto about that, you know, why
was this not just another indie Andthey can't put their finger on it either.
Oh, I don't know if itwas just even like the marketing or
just like the passionate fans and likejust retire for this product and the agency

(01:21:08):
than any other Indian relains and maybepotentially PWG a bit later, but even
PWG didn't do it. Outside ofRacipta, there wasn't exactly. It was
one building that had a lot ofmagic in it and I've never been there,
but um, I can't imagine thatthat Recipta energy could go to Philly,

(01:21:32):
New York, Boston, Toronto,Baltimore, Florida, you know,
ETCeteras, Chicago, Dayton, etcetera. Exactly. Yeah, I don't see
that happening either. And I withthe Ring of Honor, that energy was
in all those different places they wouldgo and there there were certainly things that

(01:21:53):
worked in some places but not others, definitely, But on the whole,
I don't think it was that muchof a drastic difference with the crowd because
a lot of the traveling fans werein every single place. Yes, definitely,
and it was and I could onlyimagine to say, ibem went a

(01:22:14):
message for people communicating and just likesharing their passions in a lot of ways.
But it truly like you hit iton a keyword. There there was
that passion and I think that issuch an excellent word to describe the Ring
of Honor fan base, but itwas almost like passionate to a fault in

(01:22:41):
a way. Yeah, I definitelyremember back in the day people would like
look down on the our wage fanswere fans, so passionate message for it,
Like I know a lot of theTNA fans would get really salty.
Well, and that's the one thing, and I've said it on the air,
I would say it again. Youknow, Dixie Carter has an open
invitation anytime she wants to come onthis show. So does Jeff Jared.

(01:23:04):
Because the Ring of Honor versus TNA, Impact Global Force, NWA, whatever
name you want to call it,um the petty rivalry between the two sides,
um which the fan base petty rivalry. Those both Ring of Honor and

(01:23:30):
TNA should have seen that and said, oh, we could make a lot
of money with this, Oh exactly. But that would have that would have
been amazing, Like if you'd havedone something similar to the CGW ROH side
where you had bands picking their sidethat they were loyal to and creating this

(01:23:51):
super group feud of Joe Is standingup for roh aj Is standing up for
t NA. Daniels doesn't know whatto do he's conflicted. Yeah, you
had something there, and I thinkeven to this day, obviously you're never
going to have W W E andA E W doing that. However,

(01:24:16):
there is impact that exists, andthere are fans of impact, and I
don't know who is on their levelas far as sharing the vitriol that existed,
you know, in the way thatRing of Honor had the vitriol with

(01:24:38):
TNA, that was a missed opportunityand I think that was something for me
personally. I hated TNA. Ihated seeing guys go to TNA. When
Joe went there full time, Iwas disgusted, and I think they robbed
him of some of the best yearsof his career. Oh man, I

(01:25:00):
remember just him getting to go tow E was great, and then to
come back to A W and ROHand represent them, and just that connective
tissue as well is also something thatmakes ROH different. You know, when

(01:25:21):
you leave ROH to go somewhere elseto you know, fend for your family.
Fans myself included, did not understandthat at the time. Like,
Yeah, Christopher Daniel's promo was agood Times, Great Memories where he said,

(01:25:42):
um, I can't be my familywith your chance of this is awesome.
Yep, and that's that's true.So he was going to go feed
his family with TNA's chance of thisis awesome. So you know, I
mean it's I think the disdain betweenthe two fan bases would have made for

(01:26:03):
great business. Oh, it wouldhave been. It would have been incredible.
Now, secretly, I was watchingTNA from the Wednesday pay per views
up until they shifted to the ImpactSunday pay per view once a month model,
and then I just out of sight, out of mind. But I

(01:26:25):
did see, you know, theTwo Magical Three Ways and some of the
other key matches here and there,but it didn't feel the same. I
got invited to the TNA shows inFlorida in December this year, and one

(01:26:45):
happens to be the same night asmy mom's birthday, so there within like
a twenty thirty minute drive of myfolks house. So you know, maybe
I'll go to Florida and go toan IMPACT show and see what it looks
like just up most. But itis interesting that you can no longer do
that rivalry because now Roh is apart of something bigger than ye and that's

(01:27:14):
kind of the next big topic totalk about in this podcast is the growth
of Ring of Honor. Obviously withoutgoing to Canada anymore in the Sinclair era.
They did go for Summer Supercard andsome assorted shows over the years,
but well, what is a fanwere you seeing in the growth of ROH?

(01:27:35):
Did you think it could end upbeing a powerhouse? A number A
solid number two. I think itdefinitely could have, especially with all the
big mistakes that T and A keptbaking and how they were a flowering sort
of and then they definitely had that. It just never seemed like Sinclair was
really fully invested in like pushing itfurther than it could have gone, Like

(01:27:57):
if they would have really put someweight behind it and just like probably put
it out some pickup markets or Idon't even what the magic would have been,
but I really feel like they couldhave gotten especially with the elite there
and all that back in twenty fifteen, I feel like they could have broken
out into something like when they didMSG with New Japan and that like that
could have been a sign where they'relike, O, gett a Sartain level

(01:28:17):
now soon. But it's never paidout. Thought yeah, and it I
guess we could talk about the MSGshow at some point, because that's kind
of my breaking point with everything.But you know, when you're kind of
in my position and you're you've beenin almost every market that the company ran,

(01:28:44):
and there were times you'd leave andyou say, I can't wait to
do this again, and then youthere were other times in recent years where
you're like, oh, man,I got to do this again in two
weeks, and why am I doingit? I love it? Yeah,
but there is a discernible drop offfrom the Gabe era to what we got

(01:29:06):
the last you know, pre covidum as as you're no longer attending shows.
You said you've been to three liveshows, border Wars being the last
one. It's been ten years almost, well it's been over ten years because
we're in September. Um Like,that's that's crazy, right, Yeah,

(01:29:31):
I can't even believe that. Whatwould you say? I guess at this
point is kind of the next step. Are you planning to go to a
w when they're in Toronto in October? Tickets right now? Actually? Oh
awesome. Hopefully hopefully you get tosee Shane Hagging on live and in person.

(01:29:54):
I'll make sure that you guys getconnected. He should. He should
be able to say thank you forsupporting Patreon dot com and doing it doing
a show. I'm I'm high falutinaround town. I'm fraternity leave, I
kid a kid, I kid becauseI love and he's old. Um.

(01:30:17):
But no, in all seriousness though, like you'll see a e W in
person and it will feel like rohon steroids. Oh yeah, I'm I'm
imagining it. Yeah. I waslike, my cousin's going with me,
and he was he kind of likeall he watches now with an e W
and he doesn't care about anything elsewith this is like what he wants to

(01:30:39):
do so badly, And I'm I'mreally pumped for it. But well,
I hope you have a blast.It should be a great time, and
I hope they roll out the redcarpet and put on some pretty great shows,
which I have no doubt if theywill. But you know, the
growth of our wage from twenty fifteento the elite leaving and forming eight you

(01:31:00):
into twenty nineteen I think was fouryears where Ring of Honor had a chance
to really are in the pun butmake an impact, and they just kind
of were like we're content. Yeah, We'll stay where we are and our
one. They hit our area andthat's fine. But I guess fair fair

(01:31:24):
power to them. But did yourinterests as a fan in terms of what
the product was, did it Wayneat all? During that era? Were
you into like the Bullet Club andthe elite in that hole? I wasn't
totally watching our sure Ring of Waterat that point in time. I kind
of drown top when I was verymuch into them, wh I would watched
New Japan. I kind of movedaway from I got a little disenfranchise the

(01:31:46):
Ring of Water around the twenty thirteenera, around the time when they did
the one pay per view for freewith with Cole and Elegant, when they
did straight for Free to cut out, so it's like, okay, I'm
gonna And at that point was whendo Japan really blew up again? When
the Tahashi and Sister have that fivestar match, and I kind of moved

(01:32:08):
my tensions over there. Well,as we know with Bring of Honor,
they don't have a steady stream.That's a that's a p joke for all
of you out there. Um,if you if you thought my sense of
humor was childish before, I havenow made a pe joke on the air,
so I got that going for me. But sometimes I need to happen.

(01:32:31):
I'm true. I'm gonna say saystream. I don't know, man.
I drink a gallon of water everyday. I feel like I'm peeing
every twenty minutes. The fact thatI haven't paused for us to take a
pea break is amazing. Um,I is some of you know out there.
I've been having some some ankle issuesand I had an MRI tonight right

(01:32:54):
before we take this. I hadabout forty minutes in the tube that they
were doing the MRI, and Iwas so afraid I was gonna have to
pee while I was in the MRI, and I pee right before and literally
right after. Um. And that'ssome drinking a gallon of water a day.

(01:33:15):
I mean, it's it's crazy,just constantly peeing regardless of me.
This is not nobody's here for mymy bathroom schedule. But we're here to
talk Ring of Honor. And Iguess there were shows with no bathroom breaks
in the Ring of Honor days.But you know, as your your interest

(01:33:36):
in Ring of Honor dropped off andyou talked about the cole Elgin show with
the stream going out, and tome, I have to separate it into
eras and the saddest moment for meas a Ring of Honor fan, and

(01:33:59):
I think a lot of people fallinto the same category was also the pinnacle
of Ring of Honor and that's theGarden Show from twenty nineteen. I went
into that show with I mean,I hadn't paid for a Ring of Honor
ticket in I don't know six orseven years at that point. Thank you

(01:34:24):
Rhett and thank you Gary Jester.But like I paid to sit in the
front row at the Garden, Likeif you're watching on the hardcam, there's
a jackass and a white hoodie inthe front row that says an honorable mention

(01:34:44):
and you can't miss me. I'malmost hit by the ladder in the three
way, which, as I havetold Paul Turner at least twenty five times
since then, the ladder did nothit the fan. The fan acted like
it hit him. It did not. It missed by a solid foot and

(01:35:04):
a half. But he got somefree autographs out of it. So whatever
that show, the anticipation for thatshow did that like the idea of our
wage and Madison Square Garden. Didthat bring you back in or was it

(01:35:24):
just New Japan was part of it, so I'm gonna be in. I
was kind of both. Actually.I was happy for a Ring of Honor
to finally put on that marquee atMadison Square Garden, you know, and
felt like something big was finally happeningfor like it was a little emotion that
we all believed in, right,even if at the moment probably wouldn't believe
it as hard as we had before. But I still wanted that show,

(01:35:45):
wanting to support Ring of Honor inthat. But other than I did the
ladder match, I wasn't too fondof throughout put that anything. So I
I was so excited for that show, and it was taking place in a

(01:36:06):
pretty difficult part of my life,as we've documented on this show. You
know, my grandmother had passed acouple of months earlier. My grandfather was
back here in Ohio, and thatwas the only day that I actually missed
visiting him in the three months thathe lived after my grandmother had passed,
and he would pass away a coupleof a couple of weeks after the Garden

(01:36:30):
show. But I left the Gardenfeeling so empty and just hollow. I
don't think there was ever a Ringof Honor show that I left, and
I was in some bad ones Survivalof the Fittest twenty eighteen, which we're

(01:36:55):
going to cover when Hagitroon comes back. There was a show in Dayton right
after Pierce took over with like Nigeland Pierce uh in a title for title
match that sucked. Oh yeah,Reckless Abandoned maybe was the name of that

(01:37:17):
one, And I don't know Supremacy. I'm not sure battle for Supremacy there
you go, right on. RecklessAbandoned was was also in Dayton, but
uh, like that was a badshow with a just not good finishes across

(01:37:38):
the board. But I never leftwith the feeling of like, Okay,
I'm out, I'm done. AndI walked out of the garden and independ
station to go back to the hoteland then pretty much immediately go right to
the airport. Uh, because Ithink I flew home. I had just

(01:37:58):
played out a LaGuardia like six ofive in the morning, I was home.
I went. I would have landedin Cleveland by like seven fifteen,
and then the hour drive home somehome by eight thirty. Let's say I
went right to the nursing home tosee my grandfather and I remember like going

(01:38:24):
in and having a conversation with himand it was like the last really good
conversation we have about the show anda w and what was coming and but
that show it just felt so notRing Them On. It was this beautiful,

(01:38:45):
gorgeous sports arena, the mecca ofprofessional basketball. You know, you
can feel that building then, likeit has us smell, it has a
an aura a personality to it.But it's not Ring of Honor, right,

(01:39:10):
And I think that was part ofit. Definitely. Yeah, it
didn't have that feel to it.And for Ring of Honor, really it
was too clean. Yeah, thegrit was gone. The grit that made
Ring of Honor so special was notthere. And I was not a Matt

(01:39:32):
Taven top guy supporter. Um.I think there's a weird group of fans
that that are just like, Idon't know what it is, but that's
their guy, and so be it. Yeah, I mean, everybody likes
what they like, but it's likeI think there's almost a blood lust of

(01:39:57):
if you don't like Matt Taven,You're you're gonna die you're dead dust Um,
and I just think that sort oftribalism doesn't really have a place in
in my wrestling world right now.If you could have changed the Garden Show,
what would you have done? Well, definitely no Enzo and cast run

(01:40:21):
In. Yeah boy, maybe evenI don't even know if doing a ladder
match was playing the right call eventoo to really show Ring of Man,
or even just like doing New Japandude and just do straight up matches like
a big good made of end justthat jay Lee and I was a Marty

(01:40:42):
Scrolls the other guy in the match, or yep, even as a jail
football and yeah, I guess downin mindset that wouldn't look so good.
But at the same time back then, yeah there's a lot of hindsight.
Yeah, but but even just doingjust doing as so straight up one on
one Marty Scrolls jay lequel match,I think would have said way more than
doing a for like three guys beenGammick Martch. It just it did not

(01:41:05):
feel like the typical roh mean eventand the fact that you know, Ring
of Honor put up a fight tohave that end the night and not Okada
over Jay White. It's just sillyto me. I remember, like,
so I was sitting next to afriend of show, Stephen Spitzer, and

(01:41:29):
Jacob Jacob Cohen was sitting near me, I do believe, And I just
remember the thought of like, Okay, I've been to almost two hundred of
these shows over the years. Thiswas fucking weird. And I just remember

(01:41:49):
like Tavin grabs the belt and he'sstanding on the big purple ladder and he's
holding the belt up and I'm justlike, and there's a there's one quick
camera shot of me, and Ihave this look of just perplection on my
face, like you're talking to adog. Yeah, they tilt their head.

(01:42:12):
That's kind of what I look like. And that's how I feel about
that whole night. The New Japanstuff was pretty good. You know.
You never want to take for grantedseeing Okada and Tanahashi and will Off Spray.
I saw it for the No,it wasn't the first time I saw

(01:42:34):
him or Zach Saber, but Ligerfor the final time. Muddha, like
all these legends that you're getting tosay, I saw these people in front
of me, yes, you know, And that's that's one of the big
things with Ring of honor historically forme that I can say, holy crap.

(01:42:58):
I saw Kobashi and Misawa and Urashimaand Kenta and Marafuji and Shima,
Baby Hulk, Shingo, lager Okada, Tanashi, literally every name I think
that was. Yeah, that's actuallyright. There is another big reason why
I bring them. Arts felt sodifferent if you would get these big international

(01:43:19):
names that you would dream of seeingand likely it's about videotape from like third
generation grading and then there they arein front of you. Well, and
if you think about it, Japanis such a different culture than the States
and Canada respectively. They seem almostand this is not a knock, but

(01:43:45):
they seem almost like a dream sequenceor a cartoon or like a real life
animation. Like they don't feel realor seem real until you see them in
front of you. You know,you can see somebody on tape and appreciate

(01:44:08):
their work, but when you seethem in person and you feel what they're
doing, that is unbelievable. Youexperience that respect is with fate of an
angel too, in comparison to seeingrespective is earned you know on tape.

(01:44:34):
I just I think there is acertain impression that Kenta Kobashi left on me
that as a fan, I amchasing that seventeen years later. I can
really imagine, like to even justwatch it on tape, like and how

(01:44:57):
awesome that we'll peeve it on tape. I can't imagine being their lives.
And that's that's the reason we dothis podcast, is to keep that feeling
alive. And you know, haggetOrn's experience watching that match is different than
mine, but the feeling is thesame, and it's amazing to be able

(01:45:23):
to say I saw that, Ifelt that. Um it's it's so hard
to explain to people on the outsidelooking in. And when you're able to
pull back and and talk to afan from the next generation, which is
where I would say, you wouldcome in. Uh, you know in

(01:45:45):
there's two thousand and seven era,when you know, the pay per review
era quote unquote, where guys likeJoe and Homicide are leaving and you know
the new crop is coming in.There is is a gap of understanding.
But then there's all these new starsto be like I saw this person.

(01:46:08):
Wow, you know, getting tosee Lance Storm in person, getting to
see Fit Finley in person. Youknow, they may not be you know,
Kobashi, Massawa, etc. Butthey still have this layer of importance
and credibility to them. Definitely,And Lance is a Canadian hero. Oh

(01:46:31):
definitely there Kate wrestling fans guy's Ithink it's one of our big guys up
there again. So that was oneof the other things I wanted to explore
with you in terms of wrestling andRing of Honor in general, I guess
is kind of an adjacent issue tothis, But the worship and the way

(01:46:56):
that Vince would create these phony patreriotic characters of Hogan and you know,
flag waving Bob Backland and etcetera,etcetera. Um, I'm not one of
these, you know, I gotI don't have an American flag in my
front yard. Um. You know, I'm pretty outspoken with what I think

(01:47:19):
of this current state of this country. My grandfather and two of his three
brothers were in World War Two.But I have you know, seven friends
that I went to high school withit served in the Armed forces, uh,
including one that was killed in combatum by friendly friendly fire. UM

(01:47:44):
Stacy Dryden rest in peace. Butyou know, the the weird idealistic hero
worship of the flag and no,we're gonna, you know, put the
blue line through the flag and allthat. I don't get into. All
that. I don't buy it.I don't understand it. But I do

(01:48:06):
look at this count at America interms of who this country looks up to,
and I say, okay, wehave our military, we have some
police officers that are worth looking upto. We have great teachers here.
But in Canada there is this kindof worshiping of wrestling or am I just

(01:48:29):
an outsider misunderstanding the Bret Harts andthe Chris Jericho's and the land Storms of
the world, the Owen Hearts,God arrest his soul that you know they
are national here? Are they nationalheroes? I would say that there is
like national heroes. I guess Ialways here, like my grandparents talk about

(01:48:53):
whipper Billy Wants and that, andlike everybody kind of way back in the
definite way of days and but beforeas current guys. I think the only
person that people would talk about interms of national heros with Brett probably that's
so like I just can't imagine arest a pro wrestler being like at the

(01:49:14):
level of a Michael Jordan, youknow, in the culture sense the way
Brett dominated at one point for likeGreatest Canadian or something, but he wound
up being I'll be a crack thetop ten, but he wound up being
a hostel one of the shows.But yeah, that was I remember thinking
that was crazy. Well, Brettgot some award that like only Canadian Royalty

(01:49:36):
got at one point. Yeah,I think I know, stud definitely got
the A Order of Canada. Ithink it's called Yes. Yeah, I
believe Brett got that as well infairly recent years, like maybe in the
last decade or so. Um,I wouldn't I wouldn't doubt it. And

(01:49:57):
like to me, growing up,I was not a big Brett guy.
And credit work credits due, Ihave to to say, like in the
last year, I've become a bigBrett guy. Um, thanks to see
him Punk and Dak's Harwood and CashWheeler, all three of them specifically,

(01:50:23):
and they use the explanation of himemphasizing everything. Yes, and I we
had this conversation in Cleveland Dynamite inJanuary, and I remember going home and

(01:50:43):
pulling up the Peacock Network and Iwatched probably seven or eight Brett matches in
a row and You'll never hear mesay Brett's not a great worker. I
was always more of an Owen ismy favorite, and to this day,
Owen is my one of my favoritewrestlers of all time. Oh definitely,

(01:51:05):
yea. Sometimes Brett mean as faras as far as like just watching him
wrestle I absolutely love Owen Hart andI could not tell you a bad or
mediocre or average Owen Heart match offthe top of my head because he made

(01:51:27):
everything just unbelievable. But with Brett, everybody goes to the Sean match at
WrestleMania or the Austin match the yearafter, and I go in reverse,
I go to WrestleMania eight versus Piper. Oh yeah, that's it. I
think it's I think it's one ofthe three greatest WrestleMania matches of all time.

(01:51:53):
Oh yeah. But the way theywe have that story in there,
with the type of the bell,like yes, he got hit over and
on and then I did even that, it was imperfect. The finish is
so beautiful, and I just Ihave such an an admiration for that match
and that and maybe it was becausethat was the first one where I started

(01:52:15):
noticing all the little things that thosethree guys are telling me about. But
the cultural worship of Brett is whatI found fascinating. And when he even
did like an ROH show I thinkin Chicago and Bird tells the story on
his episode Brett, there is thisthis worship of him from the wrestling community

(01:52:43):
that I don't think the generation thatwas in ROH at the time had for
anybody else. There was another generationwith ROH that was they were all Seawan
disciples and me, I was aFlare guy until I met him. Um,

(01:53:08):
I just think it's it's incredibly hardto find someone that has the cultural
reverence that Brett does in Canada.In the States, Hogan does not have
that because he's not a good humanbeing. Uh. Flair does not have

(01:53:29):
that because he is not a goodhuman being. Um. I don't think
there's anybody in the modern era thathas that. Oh, I guess the
Rock maybe the Rock maybe, Yeah, I guess I don't even know if
that wrestling though. And that's thething, Like, it's not the wrestling

(01:53:51):
that did it, Yeah, it'sthe movies and the larger than life,
you know, brand that he's createdfor him. That's a good word for
brand, like Austin No um Savage, no like staying. God love him.

(01:54:15):
He's one of my childhood favorites andpresent day favorites still at sixty three.
And no, like, I don'tthink there's anybody. I don't think
certainly not the Undertaker, certainly notyou know, uh, you know anybody

(01:54:39):
that's in a ew right now,just because it's so fresh, there's not
been that time. Um, Butthe Canada has this love of wrestling that
I feel like it's all of Canada. It's not just certain cities. Chicago
is a great wrestling the city,ye Philadelphia, great wrestling city, New

(01:55:01):
York, you know, Manhattan inparticular, great wrestling city, Toronto,
great wrestling city, Vancouver, greatwrestling city. Calgary obviously speaks for itself,
Edmonton speaks for itself. You cango on and on and on,
and I think it is so amazingand intriguing to me that Brett has that

(01:55:30):
he has a whole country behind him. God, I can't even really put
my finger over and like it justsees what Bret like, Brett is,
Brett like he's gone anything like doesn'tpretend to be anything else, really like
And what you say is when youcan't. Yeah, and it's been a
fairly straight shoot, not a solidperson like he's like his book says he

(01:55:57):
claims to be a bit of awomanizer. But oh that's true. That's
right. I mean, okay,fine, Like I'm not big, I
don't I don't really get with that. But uh, I don't know,
man. I the cultural love acrossthe whole country for a pro wrestler,

(01:56:21):
okay, like it's Brett, it'snot all one, I know, Yeah,
it's it's just who maybe. AndI think Brett would probably tell you
Owen was better than he was.Yeah, I think he definitely won.
Um, it's fascinating. It's it'sjust it's so fascinating to me and not

(01:56:41):
being able to put myself in thoseshoes. I love Samoa Joe and he
is my all time favorite, numberone. There is nobody better, you
know, on my list. IfI had to pick one, it's Joe
and there's nobody like. He doesn'thave the cultural reverence. Sampunk does not

(01:57:04):
have the the countrywide reverence. TheKings of Wrestling, only one of them
is American, the other is veryvery European. Chris Hero does not have
the cultural reverence it's so fascinating tome, and to for Roh to be

(01:57:27):
able to go to Canada and haveall those shows at the ted Reeve and
then at the International Center, andthen the two trips to Montreal. To
have that appeal. To be ableto translate what's going on in Dayton,
Chicago, Detroit, Boston, Philadelphia, New York, Long Island, Baltimore,

(01:57:51):
etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, andtranslate that to a whole other country
is fascinating to me. It reallyis. Yeah, I think about it's
just like you wouldn't think it wouldwork, just the company is coming up
out of nowhere and just being ableto cross the border in this country and

(01:58:11):
just be It's almost the same asif it wasn't the States like you put
like you put on Northern Navigation.It feels just like an American r WHICH
show, and it's it's different becauseyou could say, oh, well WWF
and WCW ran in Canada, ww UM. I have a running joke
where I keep referring to it asthe wwf U in one of my group

(01:58:34):
chats, and like, so it'sthe f that's kind of returned um.
But no, like they are theestablishment. They are the tissues. You
know, they're they're they're Kleenex,their Coca Cola, they're Pepsi. They
are the thing that it is.They're the name brand. Now, oh

(01:59:00):
there's this other small mom and popshop. It's still somehow seemingly manages to
travel all around the US and intothe Midwest and you know, a little
bit further south. But then theyalso go to Canada and have this game
changing impact on wrestling with their styleand the Canadian fans getting yeah, that

(01:59:29):
is just fascinating, as you said, just because I guess, but it
was probably like the same in theStates. I guess people appear it's probably
gone tired of just wwwe and that'sall that it was. And they wanted
to find something pression too, becauselike, there's always gonna be an alternative
instead of just showing it out andshowing us look for an alternative. And
I think what the bring up onear was becoming the solid number three.

(01:59:51):
I think people kind of took noticeup here and we're like, hey,
we really like this, we wantto see this up here. And it
helped that TENA kept stepping on theirown toes. Yes and ring of Honor
would would not. I think Ringof Honor came up here before TENA actually
did too. Yeah. Um well, now that that TEENA is owned by

(02:00:17):
a Canadian company, you would thinkthey would want to, you know,
start thinking about getting back there.But they were before the pandemic. Yeah,
they were running Toronto pretty regularly.And then they did the infamous Pound
for Lor thing in Ottawa where theywere paying fans to tend to impact.
But oh yeah, I didn't knowthat. Yeah, I know apparently that

(02:00:41):
the impact tapings up the Pound forLory. Yeah, they were paid,
hired, They put out ads forextrass to come and be paid. I
have largely existed in a bubble whereimpact does not impact my life. I
intend to keep it that way.No offense to anybody that works. There's
some really I have friends that workedthere. Um okay, Indy guys like

(02:01:08):
Billy, Josh, Alexandrow the champsright now, so I kind of cheer
for it, But I mean andand Josh is another guy that you know
made his way to Cleveland, AIWwith with Ethan and you know they were
on top there. Um. Ijust I only have so many hours in

(02:01:29):
the week that I want to allocateto wrestling, yes, And it's different
now for me, yeah, whereI don't want to make wrestling my life.
Yea. I should discuss this mycousin recently, and that like when
you look at all the different streamingservices and see how much wrestling is out

(02:01:50):
there now, we would have beenin heaven like ten years ago. Well,
and I've talked about this on theshow. Ring of Honor was my
life. I neglected my sports teams, um you know, all the Cleveland
teams, Ohio State, not Dukebasketball. That was always a number one

(02:02:11):
priority in life. But um youknow, Rig of Honor was my social
activity. My friends you know wouldcome with me when they were in Ohio.
But for the most part, likethe traveling shows, that's where I
got to see all my other friends. You know, Going to Philly,
you'd stay in a certain person's house. Going to Boston, you'd stay at

(02:02:32):
a certain person's house. Going tothe you know, Baltimore, you stay
at a certain so on and soforth. They come here, people stay
at my house. It became thissocial construct as opposed to a wrestling construct.
And maybe that's when my wrestling fandomstarted to wane. I don't know,

(02:02:55):
and that is just I find that'sso fascinating. I wish I was
part of that lifestyle, just likehaving prestling friends and just going around traveling
different places and just that that wasbasically your circle was just like God,
just helping a man and go toa show or something like that, or
those day at somebody's house that Ihad never had that, And it was
also fascinating too because you had itwas like high school where you had clicks,

(02:03:19):
and I tried to be somebody thatgot along with as many people in
the clicks because people would tell me, oh, you're different in person than
you are on the internet. Well, no, shit, it's the internet.
Like exactly, be yelling about somebodyposting the seventh bringing Delo Brown thread

(02:03:41):
on the message board is a lotdifferently than me going up to you and
saying, hey man, I'm Jeff. You may know me as Jay Slow
on the Roways message board. Niceto meet you, hey, man,
Like come sit over here with us, or you know, come join us.
We're going out after the show tothis play or getting invited to you

(02:04:02):
know, a certain place, likeeverybody bonded over roh h is what brought
people together and that was something Ididn't notice too like when I went to
that first show, I said,standing in line outside of just everybody,
because there was a whole groups ofpeople getting together, talking like that and
seeing each other in once and justbonding over the wrestling. And I didn't

(02:04:24):
see that in a shows and perfectly, but it's that small world creates a
bigger world philosophy and that that Ithink was the secret sauce that Ring of
Honor had and just I don't knowhow they found it or curated it,

(02:04:46):
but it was there, it existed, it was real. I felt it,
and yeah, they've filled that indeed perfectly, and just they came
along at the right time. Andyou know, speaking of time, we
have the past, we have thepresent, and then we have the future

(02:05:06):
of Ring of Honor. What doyou think the future of Ring of Honor
is under its newest owner. Ithink it's very pride. Like I did
manage to catch the last one wasa supercard, was no death worse on
was the last one. I didn'task to catch that. I just was
the feel of it and feels likeRing of Honor, and it was like

(02:05:30):
they had the production and in goodhands obviously, and I'm hoping they can
scrabe a TV deal soon and thenthen Tony can take it on the roads
more and build the brand and itkeep featuring on AW given the exposure.
I think the historical part of itis so cool to now have somebody that

(02:05:54):
was a fan of the product ownit, yes, after a decade of
people that weren't wrestling fans owning it. Yeah. Joe cough, Joe cough.
You know, for all the positivethat he did, you know,
getting it into Sinclair's hands, keepingit alive. He could repeat the Battle

(02:06:17):
of the Belt story a thousand times, but he was a part of the
first Battle of the Belts, RickFlair, Barry Wyndham and blah blah blah
and all this. And that's greatbecause I've seen that Battle of the Belts
show. It's a great show.Yeah, But um, you can only

(02:06:41):
hear that story so many times beforeit loses its its luster. And I
didn't hear about him being a wrestlingfan traveling to the ECW Arena to go
watch Chris Jericho's last match. Ididn't hear about sneaking into WrestleMania one like
Carrie Silkin. Um I didn't hearyou know, stories of you know,

(02:07:04):
Bruno like I would from Carrie oryou know, seeing his picture in the
Eddie Guerrero documentary that just aired onA and E with Carrie has his arm
around Eddie as Eddie is leaving theECW arena to head off to WCW.
There's Terry in the front row withhis arm around Eddie. Like it's like,

(02:07:29):
holy shit, that's Carrie. Yeah. Actually to bring um Carry Actually
that was that was I think Itold stuff my mind earlier. Was also
leaving that Burst show and having Carrythere in the lobby like shaking her hand,
asking how the show was. Ijust like to have that discourse and
just like wow, there's like theoldries right berries talking to everybody gave it
this really personal feel. Carries thetype of person and I'm not going to

(02:07:54):
say that I'm best friends with himor that I've spent you know, hours
and hours and years and years withhim, but he's the type of person
that makes you feel if you spendan hour with him, you feel like
you've known him a lifetime. AndI have the highest respect for Carrie.

(02:08:15):
But the stories that he's told andthe journey that he himself has gone on
and detailed in his podcast that hedid with Ian last stop at Penn Station.
He is a hell of a storyteller. And if fans out there have
not listened to Carrie's podcast, goget it. Listen to everything. That

(02:08:39):
guy has lived ten lifetimes in onelife. He's a fascinating guy. I
miss him a lot. I justam fucking fascinated by some of the stories
he's told. Like he he is, he is the ultimate survivor, and

(02:09:03):
he's done some things for me inmy personal life that I'm greatly uh you
know, appreciative of, not justwrestling related either. Um he's he was
the right owner at the right time, and I can't pay him any bigger

(02:09:24):
of a compliment. He saved myfandom of wrestling. I probably would have
stopped watching if I'd have continued onwith WWE at the time in two thousand
and two. Um, I wasa w CW guy. So my starting
points, I mean I got youbeat by about eleven years there, so

(02:09:48):
you know, nineteen ninety late nineteenninety early ninety one time frame was when
I started watching, And um,you know that ironically enough, like you
know, Tony Khan's a couple ofyears older than me, and his favorite

(02:10:09):
years of WCW were ninety one throughninety four. And I'm not gonna lie,
like that's my favorite time frame ofany wrestling company ever. Yeah,
including roh Um it's comfort watching forme, you know, before Hogan comes

(02:10:31):
in. I was never a bigHogan guy. Um, but that the
period in ninety four, and Ithink you could even go into like the
end of ninety five because Hogan didn'tdo every pay per view that starcade ninety
five is WCW versus New Japan,Yeah right, I think um Oh Tani

(02:11:00):
is on the show. I havebeen meaning to watch that show for like
three weeks now, and I justwork has been super, super busy and
stressful, and I just have notput the show on the background. Um,
and I've I've been going through somany other audio things and movies and

(02:11:22):
TV shows and stuff that I'm tryingto catch up on, and they just
have not watched a lot of wrestlingoutside of a e WTV and um,
you know, anything that's podcast related, I haven't seen anything. Um.
Definitely though those early nineties, likeI could watch as bad as some of

(02:11:48):
that ninety one stuff was you couldthrow me Ellie Gante and the One Man
Gang or you know, Sting andSid and I'll watch it over and over
for the rest of time and neverget tired of it. Show me Oz,
I'll watch Oz. Kevin Nash hasmorphed into one of my favorite people

(02:12:09):
in all wrestling. I'll watch him. I don't care. Yeah. Um,
But Ring of Honor, this iswhere we wrap things up and we
do some plugs. The future fora Ring of Honor is as unlimited as
has ever been, and hopefully thingsas far as a TV or a streaming

(02:12:30):
opportunity come through as soon as humanlypossible. Oh sorry, the Claudio Castignoli's
and Samoa Joe's of the world,the more you see them, the better.
And man, I'm so pumped FTRthe perfect set of tag champs,
Yes they are. I couldn't thinkof a more protag But those bells out

(02:12:54):
of the kick off the new eraand uh, you know, whatever becomes
of the Briscoes in this new rohlike awesome. They'll never get old.
I always be there. So I'mgonna I'm gonna do a little word association
and then we'll get into plugs.Okay, that's cool with you. UM,

(02:13:16):
so we'll we'll start right there.The Briscos nominal um because he was
a prominent Canadian champion in in Ringof Honor. Kevin Steen, I would

(02:13:37):
say I would take care of mattingbrother word El Generico h I'd say one
of the best wrestlers for a personallyevery I can watch, I can watch
h Jericho match's tell him no,it's gonna be good. The Young Bucks

(02:14:07):
one of my favorite tag teams.I'd say, I'm trying, can't think
of a word and just put onit. Though. Well, we'll we'll
dip into the Winnipeg area of Canadaand we'll mention Kenny Omega fantastic Ring of
Honor, passion and last but's certainlynot least. Um. I think we'll

(02:14:35):
we'll go out with this one.UM live Ring of Honor, unreal fair
enough. Any plugs, social media, businesses, music, anything you want

(02:14:56):
to plug. Basically, just goout and support your local indies. You
could definitely use it, especially whenthey come back from covid. UM.
As far as all right, I'ma big slug guy for on my Instagram.
Um, but that's okay. UM, so basically, Barry Canada,
go check out Smash or see fouror Greektown Wrestling, I would say,

(02:15:18):
and yeah, that's been subscribing Patreon. I appreciate it. Scott. Thank
you for joining me. This hasbeen a lot of fun. Well,
thank you very much. Chef's great. I had a great time. Well,
thanks for you know, joining mein another honorable journey, and thanks

(02:15:39):
for being a part of Patreon.Man, it means a lot that uh,
people are paying to hear us,Like I never never in a world
where we started this podcast. Um, literally in my parents guest bedroom is
where this thing originates at least thegerm of an idea. And you know

(02:16:07):
here we are got almost five yearslater, well I know four years later,
um, almost five and two hundredand six episodes into this podcast.
It's it's crazy to me to thinkthat people are willing to pay to get

(02:16:28):
early access to my voice and Shane'svoice and um us telling our stories and
sharing our memories. And I don'tknow, it's it's incredibly humbling. Wait,
you guys keep up a great workand I'm just gonna keep on giving
me twenty bucks. Everyone, Wellbe like Scott McConnell. Join us on

(02:16:52):
Patreon, Patreon, dot com,Backslash an honorable pod, and at twenty
dollars, tier gets you access tomore wrestling than you know exists. I
wish everybody lived closer and could actuallylike come into the house and see just
how vast this DVD collection is.I recently had, let's just say,

(02:17:18):
somebody that will not be welcomed backinto my house anytime soon. I don't
want to throw a label, andHagaroron likes to throw the labels around.
A girlfriend label is what he helabeled it as. I'll just say she
was a nice lady, but she'snot gonna be back here anytime soon.

(02:17:39):
But she saw the DVD collection andshe asked me, you know what drove
you to have this? And Ijust said, it's like a love of
something and this interest in exploring everyform of it. Yes, and I

(02:18:01):
love wrestling, and I love theidea of talking wrestling, be it from
nineteen ninety one or two thousand andtwenty two. Yeah, this business has
given me so much and I feellike I owe it at that of gratitude,
and I will continue paying it forward, whether it's through this podcast or

(02:18:26):
just bullshitting on Twitter and Instagram andFacebook occasionally, although I don't use Facebook
as much. But we'll talk moreabout that in the plug section. Um
support your local indie, like Scottsays, they could use your dollars.
You guys have dollars in Canada,right, yeah, seven other called boonies,

(02:18:48):
but we call dollars. Okay,Well we got looney's here. They're
just not they have no cash value. We call those loonies Republicans, I
guess, so I guess turn accadama conservative but well yeah they're they're allegedly
conservative here, but they're more morecrazy than conservative. But that ends the

(02:19:13):
political diatribe of this year episode ofan honorable mention and stay tuned for the
plugs. Scott, thanks so much, man, this was awesome. Well,
thank you so much, madam.We appreciate you sharing your journey with
us and supporting us a Patreon,So I'll throw it to the plugs from
here and stay tuned on the otherside of this break. After a successful

(02:19:37):
first outing, Fight Pro Wrestling isgetting ready for their second event, Enter
the Fight Round two October twenty second, and Westville, New Jersey, featuring
old school rules in a new schoolstyle. Fight Pro Wrestling brings a unique
vision to the world of independent professionalwrestling, featuring a season structure and a

(02:19:58):
t are based system. Into theFight Round two will feature top independent talent
like Delirious, Rhet Titus, TheSavage, Gentleman, Victor Benjamin, Lady
Frost, Chennaikai, and many more. Tickets and information at fight pro dot
com that's fight with two t spro dot com and say fifteen percent off

(02:20:22):
your tickets for into the Fight Roundtwo when you use the promo code fight
two that's fi gh t T twoto say fifteen percent on your tickets as
you enter the Fight Round two withfight Pro Wrestling October twenty second in Westville,
New Jersey. Want to hear thead free version of this show and

(02:20:43):
get it early, Become a patrontoday at page round dot com slash an
Armable pod. If you become apatron, you'll get early and add free
access to the show with several tiersto choose from that started just a few
bucks a month, and each tiercomes with more bonus perks like bonus content,
merch and so much more. Supportthe show at Patreon dot com slash

(02:21:05):
an Honorable Pod and get early addfree access and be worthy of an honorable
mention. Well, as I said, that was going to be an interesting
interview and having Scott on, youknow, as it is with most pro
wrestling conversations, you go from talkingabout one singular subject to a completely different

(02:21:26):
subject. And the love that wehave for Breath to Hitman Heart was a
really big subject for us, andI think that cultural hero worship is a
very interesting thing to examine as wekind of navigate through society in our own
unique ways as individuals. But afun show. Thanks to Scott for joining

(02:21:50):
us and as always supporting us atPatreon dot com, backslash Honorable Pod,
and as Scott said, support yourlocal indies. For me, it's aw
in Cleveland, and you know,for you, it's probably somebody else,
but hey, check it out andenjoy the show, Support your indie,
support your indie wrestlers, and havefun our social media. Speaking of supporting,

(02:22:16):
you can find us at Twitter andInstagram at an Honorable Pod is the
handle that's at an Honorable Pod andFacebook dot com. Backside an Honorable Pod.
You can find me on Twitter andInstagram at mister Jeff Schwartz zero.

(02:22:37):
That's at mister Jeff Schwartz zero.Come over there contents a little less filtered
nowadays. And if you know youknow at mister Jeff Schwartz zero, Twitter
and Instagram, Facebook dot com,just starts Jeff and shwa rtz. My
picture with my beloved Grams and Popswill pop up and you can add me

(02:23:00):
your friend. I will be yourfriend. You can find my co host,
who is the co hostess with themostess. He's not here this week,
but he is at hag it OrnShane on Twitter and Instagram, Shane
Hagedorn on Facebook, and of course, most importantly at Code of Honor book
on Twitter. Code of Honor iscoming to a bookstore shelf near you at

(02:23:24):
some point in the future, sobe sure to check out Code of Honor
book on Twitter. Of course,our YouTube playlist with the non roh match
of the week that Hagiorn puts up. That is, of course the host
of all of our awesome Patreon bonuscontent and YouTube dot com backslash. An

(02:23:46):
honorable mentioned podcast is the place tofind the greatest YouTube content that has ever
existed. Our upcoming events, ofcourse, we're going to get the survival
of fit. We're gonna get fromtwenty eighteen. We're gonna get to death
before his honor seven nights one andtwo. But I am hopeful to be

(02:24:07):
taping another honorable journey with a Twittercelebrity this coming week. As I record
the outro for this show, itis September eighth. I am optimistic that
on Sunday, September eleventh, notonly will we remember those who have fallen,

(02:24:31):
you know, on nine to elevenhere in the States, but I
will be recording the podcast with aTwitter celebrity. He is a world famous
Twitter celebrity and quite frankly, oneof the best Twitter follows out there.
Highly recommended. So stay tuned forthat. That'll be our next episode,

(02:24:52):
and we are brought to you bythe Creative Control Network. Be sure to
follow the head of the Creative ControlNetwork, mister Joe Pheeney. He is
on Twitter at JA double f haha and E y three r d N
at the CC network one. Besure to follow a verified scientist of sounder,
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of video games, the Bassemaster General, the Technician of Trouble the best broadcast

(02:25:15):
machine and the award winning autocrats ofadvertisement, the cleaner of audio, mister
Zach Johnson. He's on Twitter andInstagram at Radio ZT and he delivers us
the best intro and outro every singleweek, making sure that we sound cooler
on the other side of the pillow, as you all know, every week.
I read this and it is Septembereighth, So we are just a

(02:25:37):
little bit over three months, infour days and three years removed from the
murder of my dear friend Cardinal Sledgeand his friend Catherine Brown. If you
know anything, please call the FederalBureau of Investigation for the City of Cleveland
two one six six two two sixeight four two. There is a one
hundred thousand dollars award. And unfortunatelyI can tell you I have not gotten

(02:26:03):
any Google alerts as to recent news, and there is no recent news or
updates. Carnell and Kate were murderedon June fourth, twenty nineteen, in
the Rocky River Reservation under the LorraineRoad bridge. And if you know anything
and can share any small tidbit ofinformation, that one hundred thousand dollars reward

(02:26:24):
may lead to a conviction and thatone hundred thousand dollars may go from being
in the pockets a big government toyour pockets, and then your pockets will
have to stretch because you'll have somuch money. In all seriousness, please
let's get justice for Carnell and Kate. I will be on an upcoming episode

(02:26:46):
of Unsolved Mysteries podcast talking about Carnelland this case and what I know,
and I really hope that somebody outthere can give us some help. It's
enough. Having said that, there'sonly one thing left to do. That
is to quote your pal, thehonorable Mayor of an honorable mention, Sourinaro.

(02:27:09):
No need to trip out. It'stime to dip out, slap the
porpoise. This one is over.We're out. Be kind to one another,
keep your chin up, happy everythinguntil the next episode. I hope
you take my commentary out of thisback because I don't want to have anything
to do with it. What I'mfucking abortion. I see trees, some

(02:27:33):
green, red roses, I seethem blue, fugging you, and I
think to myself, what I wonderfulas is gods, some blue and white,

(02:28:05):
the bright, blessed day, thedark, say good night, And
I think to myself what I wonderful. The colors of the rainbow, so

(02:28:28):
pretty in the sky, are parsolon the faces of people going by.
I see friends shaking hands, sayinghow very really saying I do. I

(02:28:52):
hear babers, crowd, I wantslim grou the I much mood? Can?
I never know? And I thinkto myself what I wonder world?

(02:29:16):
Yeah, I think to myself whatI wonder Yeah,

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 206: An Honorable Journey up North with Scott McConnell

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