How 'The Substance' Messed with Our Minds! (W/Jackie McGriff)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(01:02):
The following footage iscertified pg.
Pretty great.
It's Anomaly Presents withyour friends, the podcastronauts.
Sounds like a lot ofsupernatural baloney to me.
Supernatural, perhaps baloney,perhaps not.

(01:25):
Hi, everybody.
We're back.
It's the Anomaly Presents podcast.
The podcast about the genremovies that inspired the Anomaly
genre.
Rochester Genre film festival.
It's been a minute since we'vedone this, so I might be a little
rusty, but that's okay.
Yeah.
So this is Anomaly Presents.
We are a podcast about genre movies.
This one tonight we're talkingabout is not one that really inspired.

(01:48):
Might go the other way around.
Like, it's.
If you like Anomaly, youprobably like the substance.
So this movie has been kind ofbouncing around in 75% of our brains
for.
For a couple months now.
25% of us just watched it this morning.

(02:12):
You'll find out who in just a minute.
So let's get right to it.
I will introduce our guest inour podcast rounds.
We have a guest tonight.
That's how excited this hasbeen so long in the making.
Because I ran into our guestand she was like, we have to talk
about this.
We need to get together.
I need to get this out of my brain.

(02:34):
And that legitimately was inwhat, October, September.
So, yeah, I'm sorry we've leftit sit and fester this long.
Jackie.
Jackie.
It's there forever.
Yeah, it's there forever.
So it wouldn't matter.
Wouldn't matter.
Fine.
Tonight was hopefully thenight for catharsis, but we'll see.

(02:56):
We've got Jackie McGriff,filmmaker, photographer, our Voices
Project, one of my favoritepeople on the planet, with us tonight
to talk about the substance,along with our podcastronauts, some
of my other favorite people onthe planet, we've got kp.
Hey, everybody.
I am also ready to just, Iguess, explode and get rid of the

(03:17):
feelings that this movie havelingered for months.
And our neophyte to thesubstance, Megan.
Hi, I'm Megan.
Give me all of your feelings.
I'm gonna soak in this movie forever.

(03:38):
Yep.
Oh, my God.
So, yeah, I think we'll startjust kind of because it's fun to
talk about.
Let's start with how we feltafter we saw it.
We can.
I'll go quick and then we'llgo around.
I went to see it with ourfriend Stromi and.

(03:58):
And his wife Carrie in atheater, and it absolutely blew my
mind.
But we stumbled out afterwardsnot knowing really what we had seen.
It was still washing over us.
I'm happy.
I'm happy.
Embarrassed to say that it wasmaybe about half full, the theater,

(04:21):
and Chris and I were the onlyones that laughed in certain parts.
I think that was appropriate,but I don't 100% know still.
But, yeah, it was.
It was a roller coaster.
And then I think it was thenext night, ran into Jackie.
Jackie, what was your experience?
Okay, so.

(04:41):
So I think.
Well, at least.
At least most of the.
The.
The people I'm in the podcast with.
The.
The post.
The.
The.
I'm trying to say it.
Podcastronauts.
Is that what I said?
It's cool.
Okay.
Thank you.
Yeah.
So you.
I'm sure y'all have heard thestory, but for those who are listening.
So I.
I, of course, love movies.

(05:02):
I wouldn't be here if I.
If I didn't love movies.
So my birthday.
My birthday is in September.
I was like, you know what?
I really want to sit in amovie theater.
I want to watch movie.
Let's.
I'm gonna go to the Little.
And I'm looking at all of thechoices, and it was one of two movies.

(05:23):
It was either, okay, I go see.
I go watch sing sing and besad, or I go watch the substance
and be weirded out.
Like, I knew it was gonna be a weird.
It was going to be a weird movie.
And I do love weird movies, though.
I.
It was my, I think, first timein a body horror film or watching

(05:44):
a body horror film, so Idefinitely wasn't sad.
I definitely wasn't sad.
The goal was not to be sad onmy birthday.
And I got my wish again, becareful what you wish for.
And so I just spent.
I was okay throughout about,like, I want to say the two thirds
of the movie.
I'm like, okay.

(06:05):
It's like, it's.
It's the kind of weird that Iwas expecting.
I'm like, okay, it's about the substance.
I watched the trailer at leastright before watching said film.
That last third, though.
Yes.
I think.
I think stumbling.
I think, Matt, when you saidstumbling, I think that was exactly
the appropriate thing because.
Well, first of all, I didn't know.

(06:27):
I.
I did not move.
Okay, during the.
During the credits.
The end credits are rolling.
And I'm like, I don't.
I don't.
I don't know what to do now.
Do I.
Do I just sit here and kind ofjust let it all kind of sink in?
Do I leave?
Because I really don't knowwhat to make of the last.
Especially those last 15 minutes.

(06:47):
I don't know.
I'm like, okay, so.
So we get the Message.
Right.
It's a very clear message.
Right.
But it's done in such a waythat I'm still sitting here.
What?
It's a.
It's been how many months?
Three, four months or whatever?
Yeah, about that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Four or five months.
And it's still.

(07:08):
It's.
It's.
It's still in.
In my head there.
So that, that was my experience.
So like I said, I was not sad.
Not sad at all.
And that, like I said, was the goal.
So.
Happy birthday to me.
A birthday movie.
Oh, my gosh.
Kp, we'll go with you next.
We're bringing on home withour freshest brain.

(07:30):
So you had told me about itand you had given me a heads up.
Hey, you're gonna feel likeyou watched Titan, so don't watch
it at night.
And you're probably gonna haveto sit with it.
So, sure enough, I got upearly on a Sunday and ate my breakfast
and watched the substance andthen was just sitting with those

(07:51):
feelings all day from whatevernext thing I had gone to to the next
thing, the next thing.
So, yeah, definitelyappreciate the heads up.
We had learned our lesson.
We saw Tatan together.
Yes.
And it was another one wherewe just kind of walked out zombie.

(08:13):
Like, just.
What just happened?
So that 45 minutes ofdebriefing in the.
In the littles parking lot andthen went about our day.
Well, went home to sleep.
Went home to sleep.
And we're further haunted by it.
You, me, and Dan were all just.
I don't know what we did justnow, but.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that was.
It's very much the French man.

(08:34):
Holy cow.
French women have a lot ofthings to.
To say.
Yeah.
Do it with a style in panachethat is absolutely unmatched.
I don't know if you can do itif you tried.
Meg.

(08:55):
Yeah.
What's.
What's your experience withthe Substance?
Well, I mean, okay, so we know that.
I just.
I just saw it today.
Well, what if I don't like itas much as I think I've convinced
myself I will?
But it turns out I love it.
I love everything.
It's got glitter, it's gotgoo, it's got blood and boobs.
Lots of boobs.
More than you would think andin places you weren't expecting.

(09:17):
And that is all.
Yes to every single.
The movie was like, every scene.
Visually, it has, like, it'slike pop rocks on my brain.
Like, it's like it's madevisually specifically to go, oh,
I like this.
Oh, I like that.
That's Cool.
Oh, look at that color use.
Look at that color use.
Did you see that composition?
And then it got gooey.

(09:37):
So I, I, I understand, yes, Iunderstand why it's not for everyone.
I for sure understand becausesome movies are very specific, you
know, and I've got veryspecific little switches.
And this, for some reason thismovie just flipped a bunch of them.
Well, going off of, you knowwhy you love it.

(09:59):
Like visually you can tellthat once you're in Coralie Farjay.
I never took French, so apologies.
But like you can tell likejust truly how intentional she is
about everything.
And they only had about, Ithink 90 days of shooting and then
they spent a month in the lab.
And basically that was likewith all the prosthetics and being

(10:23):
like doing a lot of up closeshots where it was just a much smaller
crew and they got to do likeall the goop, gooey stuff and all
of that.
So you can see like howintentional it is.
Like even for the bodyprosthetics, like for Demi, where
she's like lying on thebathroom floor, that's a body prosthetic

(10:44):
because everything is practical.
And she was so clear in howshe had written this that she knew
she wasn't going to need legsbecause of the framing.
So when she worked with itspop FX is the she worked with for
all this stuff, she was like,yeah, we don't need to build the
body prosthetic with legsbecause we're never going to see
him.
So I, I appreciate that kind of.

(11:06):
Listen, why waste time on legs?
I'm like, no, use that.
Take that money towards blood.
You need all the blood moneyfor the.
If you watch a behind thescenes that that movie did, that's
about 30 minutes, they showthe behind the scenes bit of that
last big thing and it's, youknow, just a giant fire hose of blood.
And you know, all the crew isdressed in ponchos.

(11:27):
Like they're going.
The Maid of the Mist.
Really does just turn into aGallagher show.
It's, it's just, and they had all.
The actors, you know, theextras at the end, you know, covered,
covered in blood and then, youknow, you know, getting the blood
out of their shoes and everything.

(11:48):
So.
Amazing.
So, but yes, how intentionalshe is about everything is, I think
is what took this to another level.
Oh yeah, yeah, it, the designfor me almost feels like Bizarro
Barbie at a certain point.
Yep.
Yeah, I like that.

(12:09):
Where it is completely takingplace in a dollhouse.
Like everything is just, youknow, the billboard right outside
the window that keeps changing.
The fact that the name of theshow is the show.
The.
The big show.
Yeah.
You know, there's just.
No.
Yeah, it's.
It's totally a.
A little kid's version of this stuff.
It's.
It's very fairy tale.
It's.
Yeah.

(12:31):
And I think part of it was.
Oh, go.
Go ahead.
Every.
Every set feels souncomfortable for a human to move
in that apartment.
Why would you live there?
The.
The long hallway, Like, Istarted feeling sick at that long
hallway.
Every bathroom is a nightmare.
Why?
Why.
Why would you do that?

(12:51):
But I love that because itmakes it like an uncomfortable world
that, like, our main characterdoes not, like, fit.
Well, no one does.
No one fits into this world.
It's all for aesthetics.
It's not a human world.
Yeah, well, she had.
So she purposefully decided tofilm in France.
And so she wanted to get thatLA vibe, which is kind of funny.

(13:12):
And she just basically says,like, I needed a palm tree.
And then you knew it was likela, but like, you know, the star
in the Hollywood Walk of Fameand all these little things.
And then it kind of forces herto be more creative.
And I think that's alsolending itself to the Barbie version
of la.
And then you get.
Get that.
And Margaret Quaily, like, allof her design, she looks like kind

(13:33):
of 80s Barbie, right?
Like, with the leotards andhow her hair is done and the bright
colors.
Oh, yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
The bright colors, really.
They.
It really messes with you.
I mean, this is always.
My thing is like, I'mconstantly telling people, whenever
I'm talking about movies andeverything, or at least we're talking
about behind the scenes.

(13:54):
It's like every single personwho works on a film is a filmmaker
because, you know, you havethe actors, you have the director,
you have the screenwriter and everything.
But also, too, it's the.
It's the production people,it's our design, it's our department,
really.
That also too, you know,combined with the computer composer
and everyone else who works inthe film, you're also telling a part
of that story too.
So it's like you're watching this.

(14:15):
Like you said, it's an adult house.
It's really just.
It.
It gives you that, again, kindof like.
Kind of.
Yeah, that artificial.
That really artificial, youknow, superficial look and everything.
And it's the colors that really.
That really do that to you.
So it's.
Yeah, like you're reallythrown into.

(14:37):
Into that.
Into that world.
And yeah, it just.
It really just makes it So Ido appreciate that.
That hallway in the.
In the office building there,that long hallway just has such an
anxiety for me, at least.
Just filled me with so muchanxiety because it's just such a
fun house angle.

(14:59):
It just feels like it goes onfor ages.
Feels like the shining.
It's got that shining yellowin the carpeting.
I was like, oh, no.
Nothing good ever happened toyou hallways.
Nope.
Yeah, imagine, like, ifyou're, like, full of yourself, just
walking down a long,uncomfortable hallway with giant
pictures of yourself.

(15:22):
It'S either.
For a certain kind of person,it's either.
Either the best thing that'sever happened or the worst.
And that's the thing.
It kind of.
You see the moment where itturns, you know, like, this was incredible.
And now it's just a reminder.
It's a hall of mirrors, you know?
Yes.
I like that idea of set ascharacter, too, because as we are
learning about Elizabeth, whois Demi's character, though these

(15:46):
are both her, which we'll getinto later about how, like, this
is all her, even though shekeeps dividing it.
Giant photo of herself,younger, on her wall.
How is that ever comfortable?
And the answer is, it's not.
She has this giant ass, largerthan life photo of herself in the
apartment, watching over her,and then later, staring at the younger
version of her on the billboard.

(16:07):
And I'm like, right there,she's caught.
They're both.
And they're both her caught inthe middle of these.
Both sides of her that hateeach other because she hates herself.
Yeah.
I was like, oh, look at that.
Look at that.
Look at that set.
Oh, it's telling me stuff.
It's giving me character stuff.
Can we.
Like, it's the.

(16:29):
The part also, too, that I.
That actually surprised me themost because I.
Again, the goal was not to besad, but there was a sad part.
There was a sad part because she.
This guy who clearly she had.
She didn't want anything to dowith at first.
Right.
And then she has this chance to.
She's like, you know what?
I'm gonna be open.
I'm gonna go out on this date.

(16:49):
Yeah.
I'm getting emotionalactually, just thinking about it.
Yeah.
Just, like, you look so she.
So for.
Again, like, okay, she's.
She's getting excited.
There's someone who actuallywho, like, wants to, you know, spend
some time with her.
And so she's getting ready forthis date.
She looks gorgeous.
I'm sitting there, I'm like,you look amazing.

(17:10):
And then she takes.
Before she leaves, you know,she takes that one look at herself
in the mirror.
Doesn't like, because she'sconstantly got.
Again, like you're saying,Megan, she's got these reminders
that all around her, like,saying she's not good enough.
So then she goes back to the mirror.
It's that back and forth ofgoing back to the bathroom and then
her finally just giving up andbeing like, you know, I'm not gonna

(17:31):
leave because I don't.
I don't feel like a little good.
Like, I look good enough.
And then if we.
If that wasn't enough, thetext we're seeing now, the text of
him, like, hey, where are you?
You know, is everything okay?
Like, I.
I could have screamed.
I could have screamed because I.
I was sitting there.
Now, mind you, I'm alsositting in the theater, so I couldn't.

(17:51):
Right?
Because if I would have beensitting at my apartment, like, I
would have been screaming.
But I'm sitting there like,you look.
You look.
You look great.
You look great.
You look great.
You look fine.
Like, it's fine.
It's fine.
And like, I just could.
Ah, I was thinking about that.
I was thinking about, like,again, because she hates herself

(18:13):
because she can't stand andlook, because she's also playing
a comparison game with herself.
I mean, how many times aswomen have we thought back to, like,
how I used to look, how, youknow, how much it used to weigh,
you know, how my life used tobe, you know, how I used to think
of myself, you know, andeverything like that, or comparing
oneself to how you used to.

(18:34):
To be, rather than loving theperson you are right now.
And like, I go through thatall the time and I see that all the
time.
And we see that as women justin general.
But then also, too, it's likeI'm reminded of it, you know, when
I'm out there taking photos of women.
And it's.
That's the constant thing.
It's like I haven't evenpicked up my camera yet, and women
are already like, I'm not goodenough for photos.

(18:56):
Or I.
Like, I'm not photogenic.
Yeah, you're looking at themlike, you're fantastic.
Like, you don't see what Isee, right?
And it's that thing.
It's like.
And that's where this is.
What I loved about this wasbecause it throws you right back
into that, Right?
But then also, like, becauseyou're looking at it, you're going,
you look drop dead gorgeous.
What is the issue?
But how many times do we dothat to ourselves?

(19:19):
Yeah, yeah, it was like herherself, but also every.
Right.
Like, the industry she's inher age.
Like, right.
Plays this factor that, like,she's literally hearing him say,
like, yeah, we don't need her.
Like, we need somebody youngand hot.
And so I think what also wasinteresting to me in this is, like,
right.
She has no friends.
She's very solitary.

(19:40):
She's all alone in this, like.
Like, kind of mausoleum of an apartment.
And she has no one else to be,like, what are you talking about?
You know?
Or, like, bounce these legsoff of.
She just has her and younger.
Younger her maybe you know,who just, like, they don't even like
each other.

(20:25):
So it's like, I would even addon that it's not even just younger
her.
It's idealized her.
It's the whole thing with substances.
The better you.
Yeah.
It's a view that didn't evenever exist because it's impossible.
So that's the other thing that.
What?
She can't let go.
What?
She can't let go because hekeeps kind of like, tiptoeing up
to.
Hey, maybe you should stop this.
This is getting bad.
But she can't, because I thinkshe's looking at a possibility even

(20:48):
knowing that she's not gonnaexperience it.
You don't share memories.
Like, that's the weirdestthing I felt like, oh, they, like,
share memories.
So you're living, like, everyseven days they switch, right?
No, you're just, like, dead ona floor, on the tile floor, but still
not be able to let go of.
Well, maybe because it's that.
Maybe that lives in a lot ofour heads.
Well, maybe if I just exercisemore, ate better.

(21:09):
Like, it's that.
It's that that'll never happenand doesn't need to happen.
But because you're being sold.
Sold it so much.
Because being sold it so much,it, like, lives in your head and
the substance brings it out.
And that is horrific.
You know, the other thing Ikind of.
I found interesting is a lotof times I think of when I talk to
people, current self versusfuture self.

(21:31):
Right?
Like, and how that affects thedecisions you make.
Like.
Right.
And that goes back to back.
Like, am I gonna eat?
How am I gonna eat?
Am I gonna exercise?
Am I gonna smoke or am I gonna drink?
Am I gonna make things easierfor future.
Future me?
Because I see us as one personas opposed to what's often very common
is.
And I have played victim tothis myself, where I say, this is

(21:51):
future beast problem.
Yeah.
I don't know who she is.
But good luck and Godspeed.
Yeah, I'm treating her.
I'm treating future me assomebody else.
Which is not healthy anddoesn't help.
In the long run.
And it was kind of interestingto see that kind of play out in a
way.
Like, yes, it's the idealized version.
Right.
But, like, as a youngerversion of yourself, too, you're
just like, I'm hot.
I'm gonna have fun.
I'm gonna go out.
I'm gonna party.

(22:12):
I'm gonna go have sex with a stranger.
Like, I'm gonna just go outand have a good time and not think
of.
This is like, future me maynot be having a good time because
I did not take care of myself.
Like, Young me's taking all myspinal fluid, taking everything from
me.

(22:33):
Who among us can't relate to that?
Oh, but I love how visceralthis movie makes.
Those ideas of, like,cannibalizing yourself for something
that doesn't actually exist.
Anyway, I was like, oh, I love that.
I think.
And I guess I love.
That's why I'm sure we'll talkabout later how when we get to this
third version of.

(22:54):
Of her, the.
The monstro.
Eliza sue, how.
Actually, that one seems themost like, accepting of herself.
But that's because her anger is.
Is outwards.
We finally see her becauseonce she's beaten the crap out of
her.
What version of herself?
Right.
And, yeah.
Is now desperate because turnsout you can never be perfect enough.
Yeah.
You know.
You know, she's less than ayear old.

(23:16):
This perfect version, and it'salready over.
Right.
So I love that this thirdversion is the version that's like,
you know what?
I'm gonna put these earringswherever they fit on my giant head.
I'm gonna put on this bluefrilly dress, which was beautiful.
I'll put out a little face soeveryone will think I'm somebody.
I kind of love that becausethat felt very much like, why don't

(23:36):
you see?
It's me.
That version knows it's her.
It's so interesting.
No other one says it's me.
She says, it's me.
I'm Elizabeth.
I'm Sue.
The one version of herself whoknew that she was herself was the
one that was, like, dealingwith all the consequences.
Yeah.
Of not understanding that, you know?
Yeah.
It's that.
That moment of acceptance thatyou get.

(23:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
The true idealized versionwith the third or what the second
go around of the substances islike, I don't need anybody else's.
Everyone else's opinion of medoesn't matter anymore.
Yeah.
Why can't everyone else seewho I know I am?
And it's sad that it came atthis point where, like.
And you still have Elizabethface herself on the back, which is

(24:21):
interesting because this nothappened before, where there's that
part of her that started thisall is aware this is all happening,
but can't do anything about itexcept, like, once at a certain point.
Consequences.
You don't get to have on this anymore.
You know, she's in the fo part.
So many times could haveturned around where I'm like, girl,
just stop.
You could stop at any time.

(24:41):
You can stop at any time.
She couldn't.
And that's the tragedy.
This is all as much as like,what's this company?
It's weird.
What's it?
And we could talk about, like,I'm sure, respond, you know, the
idea of, like, diet culture orweight loss drugs or any or Botox.
Right.
It's also interesting that,like, it facilitates this, but it
is not make the choice.

(25:02):
In the end, she's writing herown tragedy because she can't stop.
Like, this was a choice.
It's interesting.
It's.
She's not tricked into it.
She's not even, like, coerced.
Because at first I thought,oh, the work would coerce her.
No, no, this is literally just some.
Some guy at the ER who lookslike a mannequin slipped a note in
her pocket, but she's alreadyto the point of desperation.

(25:24):
Yeah, well, it feels like, right.
It's very much a fairy tale.
Right.
Like, even the rules set up,like, the overall structure of the
story or in the vein of, like,I think of like, Donkey Skin Girl,
which.
Yes.
But it's like, yep, you gotseven days and you need to follow
the rules.
And like, this is therepercussion of the fact that you

(25:46):
don't love or see yourselflike, that you are one person.
We have very simple rules foryou to follow, and you're not following
them.
So now here are the consequences.
Shout out to the graphicdesign there because they visually
spell it out very simply for us.
So as an audience, we're notbogged down by learning the rules,
but we're finding it out as.
As our main character is.

(26:07):
They're very easy.
Like, it's like impact or afont like that, which are like.
We see this, like, even theway the equipment is designed, like,
as she's learning to use it,we are understanding, like, oh, those
are seven capsules, sevendays, and we can count time now.
When we see the capsules, I'mlike, what great visual designs that
we can follow along.
Like, oh, oh, no, those aretoo many.

(26:27):
Oh, those are.
You're reusing.
That's not seven.
That's not seven.
That'S not seven.
To notice when it's coming out wrong.
We know along with the character.
Like, well, that's not right.
Yeah.
Oh, no.
All those food packets.
Yeah.
Oh, my God.
Oh.
But it's storytelling thatisn't just like, it's.
It's showing you as how.

(26:49):
How it's telling you.
Which I appreciate.
They're like, the movie'slike, you'll figure it out.
I.
You got it.
And I'm like, do.
Thank you, movie.
She.
She a lot more.
Because there's not a lot of dialogue.
Right.
So like the visual aspects ofit need to do head heavy lifting
in addition to like.
Yeah.
The actors carrying it.
Like, because you think to be more.
Doesn't really have a lot ofother scene partners.
She's just acting literallywith herself.

(27:11):
And I don't mean other her.
I mean she's literally.
It's her herself.
And she's got to carry theweight of that story through most
of this alone.
Oh my.
Just.
Yeah.
The journey she goes on.
I mean, I'm to pick out onescene that I was cackling and this
is good.
That I was cackling during isthe whole almost like Baba Yaga Strugga

(27:33):
Nona witch scene where she'slike cooking.
Oh my God.
Holy crap.
It's hilarious.
I feel like I can understand that.
Like, it's me.
You got this all from memaking the grossest food and like
moving the spine.
There's a lot of spinalimagery in this film and I loved

(27:54):
it because it's like.
Yeah.
Both the idea of likesometimes you punish yours.
Like if depending on how youhandle, you punish yourself with
food.
Yes.
Like, you go, well, the hellwith it.
I'll just, you know, So I.
That felt real.
Real, but also like, and I'mgonna make a mess for you.
My perfect self that I'llnever be.
And I just.
I just felt it because it wasvery like, literally visceral.

(28:15):
She tore viscera out of aturkey as she's almost destroying
herself.
I'm like, yo, you know, angercooking is real.
And I felt it real hard.
She was just so good in that.
And she's almost like,literally she's hunched over that
point because that's where herbody is.
Yeah.
She is the witch.
Like, she's gotten to thecrone part of this, like, maiden

(28:35):
mother crone situation going on.
And I was like, oh, thatimagery is good.
And also cackling.
You know what?
I can't.
I honestly, I can't imagine anyone.
I don't know if I could have.
Could have imagined anyoneelse playing this.
So, like, when we were talkingbefore kp, you know, about seeing,

(28:59):
you know, I guess, like, therewas an interview or something with
all the Charlie's Angels fromFull Throttle, and, you know, they're
talking about theirexperiences and they talking about
this movie, and there is this.
I'm remembering back to, like,when that movie came out.
So Charlie's Angels, Full Throttle.
I was also someone who wasvery much like, I love this.

(29:22):
I want to see this.
Oh, my gosh.
And I just remember all of thearticles that came out during that
time where it's.
It's like people are talkingabout Demi's comeback and how, like,
how amazing she looks at theage that she is.
And so, like, when youmentioned that, I was like, oh, my

(29:45):
gosh, yes, of course, there isa certain age in this industry where,
you know, you are no longerseen as desirable, but if you look
a certain way at a certainage, oh, my gosh, how brave.
How amazing.
This is your comeback timewhen really she's been here the whole
time.
She's been here the whole.
Just crushing it, right?

(30:06):
Just crushing it.
But because she looks acertain way and because her body
looks a certain way now, it'slike, oh, my gosh.
No, we need to talk about,like, how just incredible she looks.
Everything is about how she looks.
Not about how her life hasbeen, not how, you know, about her
acting, per se.
No, it's not about any of that.
It's just how amazing shelooks in a bikini and how.

(30:29):
How surprised folks are thatshe looks the way that she looks
at the age that she is.
And it just goes back to that, right?
It's like at a certain age,you know, it's.
You know, as much as we talkabout, you know, we're talking about,
again, hating yourself, isalso that the external part of court
of that.
Of course, that's not helping,but it's also the industry that she's

(30:50):
in, like, a certain age.
You're disposable.
Like, you don't.
You don't look like the.
You don't look like theperfection or the.
The standard.
Right.
That we want.
Right?
It's.
It's like, okay, well, eitheryou, you know, play a mother, you
know, like an older mother,someone's grandmother, or Whatever.
Right.
You can't.
I'm sorry.

(31:11):
But at that age, like, you canno longer look or you can no longer
be someone who's going to be desirable.
Yeah, Yeah.
I just looked up how old shewas when Charlie's Angels Full Throttle
came out.
Any guesses?
I'm gonna get real angry, I'lltell you that.
Right.
What do you think she was likein her 40s?
Megan, Matt.
Any guesses?

(31:31):
No, no.
I'm.
I'm too full of to say a number.
Yeah, she was 40.
I'm not gonna guess at that.
Yes, I remember.
That's what I.
Because I was like, 40s is not old.
What is.
It is not at all.
It is not at all.
And, well, now.
And not to get old, but like.
Where you see people now andpeople in their 20s modifying their

(31:53):
bodies and getting theseprocedures done that are making them
look like somebody in their40s, because it's common for somebody
in their 40s, plus to getprocedures to look younger.
And so now it's like thisweird yo, yo is happening.
That's what I was gonna say isthat when that movie came out, it
was kind of like that prime,like Maxim men's culture garbage.

(32:14):
Right.
So that's.
And it seems like since thenthat that unfortunate window just
keeps shrinking and shrinkingand shrinking to the point where,
like, you know, she was 41 there.
Now, now, if you're 35 now,now you're the mom.
If you're 33 now you have to.
I have a.
I have a bird.
That's all I had at 30.

(32:37):
I am a mother of one.
My bird.
I mean.
No, you.
Yes.
That's what you like from a TV perspective.
Yeah.
Perfect example.
There's that new sitcom withTim Allen.
I hate to bring him up, butit's Tim Allen and Kat Dennings.
Yep.
Oh, my gosh.

(33:00):
And Kat Dennings is playingthe divorced mother of two that has
to come home to dad becauseshe has no place else to go.
Yeah.
And it's like.
It's Kat Dennings.
Oh, the way I.
What show was she on?
Because the one that gotcanceled because we could have had
50 seasons of that doll face.

(33:22):
Yeah, that was fantastic.
And that was like an.
Oh, you know, a 20, 30,something like trying to find herself
and after a long termrelationship where she cut off all
her friends and then basicallygoes back to them and kind of has
to fix all that and then youfollow all of them.
Wow.
Much more interesting.
You know, this is.

(33:43):
This is a good.
This.
This is a Perfect time tobring up how men in this movie are
portrayed, which is hungry.
Like, every dude in this wants something.
Every dude in this.
Like, it's interesting becauseyou keep coming back to the idea
of Elizabeth to want to be loved.
Like, they both have the one.
Like, one of the connectingthings is love, but what they're
actually getting is not love.

(34:04):
It's desire, it's hunger.
It's wanting to be consumedand move on to the next one.
That one scene near the endwhere sue has already pulled some
of her front teeth out andshe's lost the edge and she's just
walking down the hallway and,oh, we'll talk about Dennis Quaid's
Harvey, which is aninteresting name for this character
where he's with all the.

(34:24):
He said, all the shareholders.
And they are all like the same dude.
Some white, balding dude inhis 60s or 70s, some lecherous guy.
They all.
I mean, they're all like, I.
I'm not, like, seeing this.
Because the whole thing is.
Even as she's trying to movethrough, all these, like, showgirls
walk by, and these guys arealready distracted by this line of
other.
Like, their.
Their.
Their new darling is alreadylost some of her lust there.

(34:45):
He has to tell her to smile,which he doesn't want to do.
He just wants her to be hisperfect little smile.
What's he say?
Pretty girl smile.
You know, not.
Not.
Not subtle, but, like, themovie is very clear.
And he's the biggest example.
That one beginning scene wherewe see him eating those, like, shrimp
or prawns.
And it's just one of thegrossest things ever put.
And that's him.
He's just.
All he is is appetite.

(35:06):
All he wants to do is, whatcan you do for me?
You know, you're.
You're not a shrimp.
I want to eat anymore.
To me, I want a younger shrimp.
And I appreciate that movie,again, as a movie, not being subtle,
because I think fairy tale came.
KP is a really good way to say that.
Like, that is just like, no, this.
You're searching for somethingyou're never going to get here.

(35:26):
And she doesn't realize that.
And that's part of the sadnessis like, no, they're not.
There's no love.
There's never any love here.
And I love that you brought upthat she's alone, too.
Because I'm like, there's.
She has no one to say, honey,you're fine.
Like, nobody ever comes tocheck on her.
When either disappear for aweek, no one gives a.
Except For, I guess, the nextdoor neighbor who wants to.
Obeying sue, you know?

(35:47):
Oh, yeah.
I'm so glad he gets yelled atby a.
A creepy version of Elizabeth.
I'm like, good, you deserve tobe scared.
Back into your apartment, buddy.
Stay in there.
You know, I totally forgotabout him too.
You know, out of all thethings that are so easy to remember
that.
That he was.
He was forgettable.
Well, that's his whole point.

(36:09):
This dude is the most mid.
Mid that ever middle.
And he thinks that, but he'slike, I'm handy, baby.
You know?
Do you want to have a drink?
Here's a buddy.
No to her time.
He goes to the door and he's talking.
He says, I can see you throughthe eye.
I know you're there.
Even with.
And.
And like, he won't take, like,Gross, man, Gross.

(36:30):
She's never.
At no point does eitherversions of our character give him
a yes.
Come on.
And yet he's still there.
Well, and most of the othermen, like in this too, are just like
slugs of men, but with thehighest level of confidence.
And it's like.
And, you know, then you seeElizabeth being like, girl, girl,
I want you to look in themirror and like, then look over here

(36:53):
and be like, okay.
I was like, listen, I don'twant to judge these dudes, but I'm
judging these dudes.
Hard personality puts themright in the negative thumbs.
Yeah.
No disrespect to the actors.
You did your job very well.
Like, is this the same guy?
Is this a different guy?
I don't know.

(37:13):
There's a genre of guy thatlooks like a thumb or a testicle,
and that's just their lot in life.
And they're always gross.
And they're the one with allthe opinions they have.
They're the ones with all ofthe opinions.
Yeah, exactly.
Joe Rogan is the earth testicle.
Like, he is the.
Yeah.
If you look at him, you'relike, oh, yeah.
Yes.
That is testicle zero.

(37:34):
That.
That is a testicle that gains sentience.
And now he just talks aboutMMA and.
And supplements and whatever other.
That's him.
But there's a whole genre ofthose guys.
Walking testicles.
All thumbs.
Yeah, absolutely.

(37:55):
Well, you know what?
We can get into the bodyhorror now because, I mean, it starts
fairly soon.
And you think, this is.
This is as gnarly as it'll get.
Right.
If you see a human emerge fromthe back of another human, you're
like, oh, this is.
This is it.
If I can handle this, I canHand the rest of the movie, can you?
No.

(38:18):
But, like, the way she directsis just.
Everything is just so tight,so you're just so uncomfortable.
Like, she's.
Yeah, she's gonna make you be involved.
And, like, again, the lack ofdialogue and I think, like, sound
design and then the visual.
I was just gonna say the sound.
The sound design.
You know, you see the backmoving so you can feel it yourself.

(38:40):
You're feeling how thesethings feel.
You're just in it.
And I'm like, damn you.
Seriously, that's what.
That's what got me the most,is like, oh, okay.
The visuals are one thing, butthe sound, the sound.
And I'm glad that you pointedout the sound design, because I was
just like, if anything, like,even if I.
Even if I close my eyes, whichI did.

(39:02):
Even if I close my eyes, you.
Can still hear wet crunching.
Yeah.
There's no escape.
It's so right.
There's no escape.
It is so I'm like, Iappreciate that, but also, why.
But like, I mean, I know.
I mean, I know why, but also Iwas just.
Just sitting there and just going.
It's so.

(39:23):
And again, getting also intothemes here.
It's like she is basically,like, kind of like just throwing
yourself away.
But it's so.
It's so violent to.
To do that to yourself.
To part with oneself is very violent.
And so, like, the.
The.
The sound.
The sound.
Again, give it up to the sound department.

(39:45):
Yeah.
Hate you.
But I.
But.
But love you at the same time.
But love you at the same time.
It's a hate love relationshipis just.
Oh, it was just amazing.
What I thought wasinteresting, right, because you're
saying, like, throw.
Throw herself away.
And she does.
But it's so weird because youhave to take, like, the whole point,
like, the way the substanceis, like, set up.
Like, that even comes withsuture stuff.

(40:07):
So the, like, the perfectversion can, like, sew them up and
then feed them.
So, yeah.
And then you have that wholeline where Sue's whole little, like,
line at the end of her workoutis, te, take care of yourself.
She's saying the words thatshe will not do for herself.
And we see with a physicalmetaphor of the fact that how she's
like, well, I'll just build aroom to tuck me into, and then I'll

(40:28):
just put a bunch of, like,crap in there, and I'm gonna take
down the photo of me.
So she's doing everything thatis the opposite.
Like, so I'm wondering, howdoes this work?
If you Actually cared.
But of course, I don't think you.
Use this substance if you care.
No, there's just no way that goes.
Yeah, because we see that when they.
When Elizabeth runs into theold man in the diner who's the.

(40:52):
The other version of Mannequin Doctor.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, I love that because you're like.
Because I was curious, howdoes this work for other people?
Turns out, not really.
If you're willing to tradehalf of your remaining life for some
other version of you that youwon't even remember to exist.
Well, you already are not in agreat relationship with yourself.

(41:12):
And I thought that wasinteresting to see that little.
Like.
Like.
Oh.
Oh, no, that doesn't go great,does it?
No, actually.
Actually holds her body.
Like, the fact that she just starts.
Each of them start dealingwith themselves, like, worse.
Dragging themselves around, like.
And I just.
It's perfect because it was.
The word accelerates.

(41:32):
Yeah.
Very quick.
Quickly.
At a certain point where theyjust are just.
They hate each other and it's them.
No lights in the closet.
Just nothing like on thebathroom floor.
Which is not a blanket.
Yeah, nothing.
Oh, that's the other thingthat was also.
I said that too.
I was like, a blanket nothing.

(41:53):
Just a pillow nothing.
Like, take care of your body.
But of course.
Of course, if she cared abouther body, like, she's doing the bare
minimum.
Like, the fact that it alsocomes with.
That's interesting, too.
It's like, the fact that itcomes with something to feed your
body, knowing full well thatif you're.
If you're part of thisprogram, you're not going to, like,

(42:16):
you're already like, you know,I'm done with this version of me.
Right.
It comes with stuff so thatyou can take care of it.
Because otherwise, like, howelse are you.
I mean, it's like, how elseare you taking care of it?
But at the same time, I'mlike, okay, let's make sure that
we also supply this for thepeople that are using our product,
just in case.

(42:37):
Yeah, well, it's that otherpart of the metaphor, which is like,
you can't run away from yourself.
You can't.
Like, yeah, you can think, ah,I'm the best version of me.
But, like, you need yourspinal fluid, which I guess is a
metaphor for yourself.
But I like that.
That, like, no, you can't justget rid of one side.
Right.
Or the whole idea is, like, ifyou end it and you're in, like, your
original.
Well, that whatever.
Whatever happened, happened.

(42:58):
The cost is the cost.
Right.
You know like that.
And I appreciate that becauseI think that's part of it is the
idea of, like, it reallyshould be about, like, integrating
yourself.
You're connecting.
Segregating yourself.
Yeah.
For one, you are one.
That's the entire.
Yes.
That's the entire themethroughout the movie is you are one
those things you hate.
Are you?
Right.

(43:18):
Giving her a different name?
Like her coming up with a new name.
And I'm like, oh, no.
And it's not even.
Not even any nickname of Elizabeth.
Like, no separation.
You know what I mean?
Like, you think of, like, Liz,Beth, Lizzie, like, even something.
It's just.
Nope.
A complete cut off.
Yeah.
And new identity.

(43:39):
And it's like, nah, you weresomething to fail.
Okay, so a funny part with thebody horse.
So getting back to.
Because you started.
We started to talk about funnyand body.
This is the only part.
This is the only part thatmade me laugh.
Okay.
Because otherwise I'm like,nah, I'm sorry.
I'm trying.
So.
No, no, the.

(43:59):
So when she's at the.
When she's dancing, she'sdoing the dance routine, right?
She bends over and there's like.
And then.
And then they're.
Now there's.
The thing is, like, they'reall now trying to figure out what
that was because they caughtit on camera.
Yeah.
Viewing.
And she's like, oh, God.
Oh, God, oh, God.
Like, and I'm just like, yo.

(44:23):
Like, if you ever try to put,like, Spanx on or a pile of makeup
or like, a shirt not the rightsize, I feel like that's the feeling
of dread where you're like,the button popped and I breathed.
You're like, now everyone'sgonna see.
Like this.
Everyone's gonna see my butt bubble.
Yeah.
I felt that.

(44:43):
I was like, oh, no.
Oh, no.
Put it on the big screen.
Screen.
Yes.
The entire crew go up.
They're like, five seconds.
They're like, go.
Just go frame by frame.
Just mortified.
His heart breaks.
But I also love that becauseI'm like, yeah, sue, it comes for
you too.
Like, right there.
Like, it's.
It's like there's no peace tobe had.

(45:05):
You know, there's always an imperfection.
It's not always a chickendrumstick that you move throughout
your body and then pop up onyour belly button.
I was like, what is that?
What is that?
You know what?
Would never have guessed.
I'm going to be honest.
Movie, you got guesses.
Never said.
Chicken drumstick.
It's going to be a drumstick.
Even as it's coming Out.

(45:26):
I'm like, I'm not sure.
Not sure what that is.
Okay.
All right.
Jackie, is body horror foryou, you think?
I think I'm a.
I think I'm a one and done.
Watch.
You gotta watch the.
I have been challenged.
I've been saying.
I listen, okay?

(45:47):
Every single conversation Ihave with people who are very much
into horror films, I am.
Someone's like, listen, I am.
And this is.
And I've been doing this over years.
So before I say this next bit,you'll understand.
So I'm like, I'm easing.
I've been easing my way into horror.
Like I said, it's been yearsthat I've been easing my way because

(46:08):
this is not a way to ease yourself.
So I'm saying this has been a process.
This has been a whole process.
So I was like, okay.
So, yeah, so I'm like, I do asmuch as possible.
Like, I'm like, I had to fullysit with this for a while before
I could really be like, okay,wait, did we actually like the movie,
though?

(46:48):
Did we actually like the movie?
And I do.
And I do.
I've been recommending it topeople also, just with a fair warning.
The thing if body horror isnot your thing, I would say maybe
think about it.
But, like, other than that,it's like, again, the best movies,
no matter what genre, if thereis a message to be had and it does

(47:11):
and executes it, that's how itexecutes that message.
Well, in the.
You know, in the film, it's.
It's a.
I feel as though it's a great movie.
And so horror, really goodhorror, at least to me, like, does
that.
You know, when you have thesefilms who are seemingly just like,

(47:33):
again, on the surface, it justlooks like you're watching something.
It's just like, oh, my gosh.
It's just like the shock aftershock after shock.
But it's to a point.
It's to bring that messagehome about acceptance, body acceptance
or rejecting one's body or,you know, all of these different
themes.
And so I was like, no, Iactually really do appreciate and

(47:57):
love that this.
This film was exactly that.
Now, the way in which it wasexecuted, would it have been my decision?
No.
But at the same time, I'm notthe filmmaker, so I just had to sit
back and look at somebodyelse's work and appreciate it for
what it was.
That's the fun thing about genre.
Like, genre specifically, right?

(48:18):
You take something deeply personal.
And this actress, the.
The director was like, turning50 and having lots of Feelings about
it.
And then so she's able to putpen to paper and say, this is how
I'm feeling.
And let's just make it excess.
Like, you're gonna have todeal with this messy.
These messy feelings that Ican't do out in.
In.
In my everyday life because Ihave to control that.

(48:41):
But let's just take it toexcess and.
But be.
It's still grounded becauseit's built on something real.
And I think that goes back towonderful casting with like, Demi
Moore.
Right.
Because we've watched her herentire career and she's felt her
own way, like about then an experience.
And so you get that groundedperformance in there.

(49:05):
Yeah.
That's not.
No.
Like, big shout out toMargaret Qualy because I haven't
seen much of what she's beenin, but I did watch Fosse Verdon.
I was like, oh, yeah, sheisn't that.
She was also Once upon a timein Hollywood.
I did not watch that.
She.
Okay, that's kp.
That's fair.
But yes.
Yeah, she's what?

(49:25):
One of the.
What's his name?
That's right.
That's right.
Yeah.
Sorry.
Yeah.
But that's the only.
I believe that was the onlything that I had seen her in previous.
Me too.
Yeah.
I was the same way.
And I was shocked.
I was like, wow, she's.
She's fantastic with this.
I was really blown away.

(49:47):
But to me is another level.
I was.
We're post Oscars now and.
Yeah, that was disappointingbecause she absolutely.
For everything that we'vetalked about, she.
That entire movie, she playsagainst herself.
Yes.
It's.
It's just her in a room.
Absolutely.

(50:07):
That.
The moments that you weretalking about with the text messages
and the rubbing, the makeupand the.
That was the moment for methat sealed it.
Like, same.
It gutted me sitting there.
This is the.
It just absolutely destroyed me.
And I did not expect to feelthat in this movie.
Like, I expected, you know,the social satire plus, plus body

(50:30):
horror, plus, like, that waswhat I was thinking.
And then there's this piece inthere and it's the heart of it and
it just absolutely destroys you.
And that's all to me byherself with a phone.
You can do this quietdevastation and then like over the
top monstrousness all in thesame film.
You know, she could have thekitchen scene, which is hilarious,

(50:50):
and then have that and.
And they're all the same character.
And you're like, yeah, it isall the same.
These are all the things thatshe has inside going on you know,
these are all the differentsides of this woman who hates herself.
You can see the entire life.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know what's interesting?
Like, demise.
I've been fascinated about thechoices she made.
There was a couple years ago,the Amanda Kramer film Please Baby,

(51:13):
Please, which we.
Some of us saw.
Right.
And that unlocked the memory.
I forgot she was in that.
Right.
What about.
Because it's a fair.
It's a small independent film,and she just has this scene about
this, like, neighbor upstairswho has a very interesting relationship
with, like, her husband.
And it helps, like, unlockstuff for the other characters.
But I'm like, why?

(51:34):
Like, like, for my first faultwas like, why is she in this?
And then I was like, becausethis is an interesting role and she's
now taking interesting roles.
And so it feels like stuffthat she wants to do because this
isn't.
Like, this was never going tobe an award thing.
This.
Please, Baby.
It's.
It's a small, independent, oddgenre E film.
But I can see why she wouldchoose the role because it's meaty.
It's dealing with this, like,what you would call an older woman

(51:57):
at the time and, like, herrelationship with, like.
Like desire and relationshipsand all that.
And I.
I appreciate that.
Like, real heavy, you know?
Like, I love that these arethe choices she's making because
these are.
They're interesting.
And I feel like this.
The stuff that she wants to do.
And that's great to see, you know?
Yeah, it's.
It's all going back to the.

(52:18):
The stuff that she had to dofor Full Throttle, right where it
was.
It's kind of dealing with that whole.
Oh, yeah, I.
I'm.
I'm on my comeback trail andall this other stuff and having to
be objectified for so long.
Now she can just say, let'splay with that and kind of deal with
the fallout of that.
I think that's fascinating.
I think that's so great thatshe's able.
Able to do it.
Hell, yeah.

(52:39):
Hell, yeah.
Yeah.
It's also like.
It's interesting because it'sreally the.
The movie is, like, also kindof making fun of.
I mean, it really is.
It's actually making fun of,like, Hollywood, like, the whole.
That.
That whole industry in and of itself.
Because, number one, first.

(53:00):
First off, we basically sawthe plot of the substance play out
at the Oscars, like, when shedidn't win the awards.
It's like she's being upstagedby a younger actress.
Like, it was like, this is.
Yeah, this is the plot right Here.
Y'All, what a terrible dateamount for the whole thing.
Right?

(53:22):
But and then also too, like,the other thing is like Margaret
Qualy, on the other hand,she's doing all these interviews.
I was, like, watching when itfirst came out.
It started watching all theseinterviews and the interviews at
the.
The interviewers, at somepoint when they were some.
Some of these men were justasking like these really.

(53:43):
Just invasive, creepy questions.
And I'm like, so tell me youdidn't see the film without telling
me you didn't actually see thefilm or just went completely.
Or if you did, it just wentcompletely over your head.
Because I would have thoughtsomeone who's, you know, doing the
research or at least trying,right, to learn, you know, from like,

(54:05):
what the movie is teaching.
Maybe.
Maybe you wouldn't ask such questions.
Maybe you actually askquestions, you know, more about,
like, her approach to thecharacter and her, you know, actual
job rather than, you know, herlooks and all that.
It was just really.
And you could also see, like,on her expressions, like, she's trying
to be, you know, she's beingprofessional, but at the same time,
it's like, you can tell she'screeped out.

(54:25):
Yeah, it's.
It's crazy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you'll find most of thosepeople are deep as a puddle.
And they have an example ofthat in the film when she's on that
late night show.
Yeah.
And like, once again, likeanother character, this.
This man, and he's.
He's just like, tell us allthis stuff.
And you know, that Elizabeth,like, every time I'm like, shut up.

(54:47):
But he's such a, like this,like this, like everybody's kind
of cranked up.
Yes.
You know, so he's like theworst version of that kind of like
late night slash,Entertainment Tonight kind of guy.
Which brings me to the ending,because I know that some people,
like, are.
Are, you know, they have theirown feelings.
I'll explain this.

(55:08):
What I like about the endingis, I think that it is literally
an explosion, but it is also a.
All of a sudden this.
This version of her is nowputting her anger outwards, not inwards.
After, after we have like, youknow, the.
The termination that isn'tquite completed because she still
can't let go.

(55:28):
And then we have the.
Sue beating the crap out of Elizabeth.
Absolutely kicking her assacross that.
Right.
But now we have this other.
She learns the desperation.
Sue learns the desperation,injects herself with an activator
where that has been very clear.
The rules were laid out.
You only use it Once.
Right.
And then we end up withMonstro Eliza sue, this flesh amalgamation

(55:52):
that absolutely seems veryinspired by both the Elephant man
and the Fly, like, just visually.
Yeah.
But that version, oddlyenough, as I said, I think I did
for, like, seems to have aself confidence the other two do
not have.
Because I think that versionof her, all the anger is pushing
outwards.
She's like, all of you.
Because when they do not loveher, she's expecting them to love
her.
Because that's what she's been told.

(56:13):
If she shows up and does thisspecial like, she was told to sue,
they will love you.
The flowers and the note andthe flower says they'll love you
when they do not.
All of that anger andfrustration, this.
All this like, I'm changing mybody, my actual physical body for
you people, and it's still not enough.
Society has decided I am useless.

(56:33):
It explodes outwards.
And we get basically the promscene from Carrie.
Yes.
Yeah.
Just.
Just a room full of peopletrying to get out of the room as
there is just, like, hoses of blood.
And it is both funny to mebecause I'm broken.
You're, like, feeling good forher, good for her, but yes, ma'am.
What were you gonna say?
It's horrific, but it is alsoa release.

(56:56):
Like, you're like, yes.
These people need to becovered in the gore of what they're
demanding.
Like, this is what the cost ofwhat you want.
Now it's back in your face.
And I'm like, that's right, Monstro.
Eliza sue, you're my secret.
You're my girl.
You're my.
By the way, that's the momentthat I embarrassed myself laughing
at in the theater.
You had the correct.

(57:17):
Oh, my God.
Everyone else was wrong.
Yes, yes, yes.
Sitting there, leaning forwardin that stupid recliner chair, howling,
laughing at just all of thoserotten people getting absolutely
blasted.
It's a good for her moment.
Yes, it is.
It is, it is.

(57:38):
Yeah.
There were other people in thetheater when I was watching too,
also laughing.
So I was like, okay, great.
These are the people.
These are the people.
Because I'm like, what in the world?
But it is.
It is, it is.
It's early Peter Jackson.
I miss you, buddy.
I was gonna say Lord of the.
Rings, but I miss you, buddy.
I hate to say I did have thethought because at one point that
held the record for most fakeblood ever on screen.

(57:59):
I was like, this had to havebeat it.
So, yeah, there's a scene inDead Alive where Peter Jackson, zombie
movie.
If you haven't seen it.
Oh, my God.
It's wild.
But at one point.
At one point, yeah.
Before Peter Jackson was likea prestige filmmaker, he made absolute
schlock, and it's great.

(58:20):
See our previous episode aboutMeet the Feebles.
Oh, good.
Good.
Or don't.
Actually, Jackie, don't.
Yeah, no, no.
Scarred Vanessa beyond.
Pretty messed up.
Not me.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
No, no.
Meg and I are thoroughlybroken people.

(58:43):
So at one point, there's alawnmower that he's just tearing
through piles and piles ofzombies, and everything is just exploding
in geysers of blood.
And at that point, they'relike, oh, no, this is.
I can't remember how manyhundreds of gallons of fake.
I'm sure.
And probably right up until now.
Yeah, it held the record.
That was a lot.
Because I was also like, how long.

(59:05):
How long is this scene?
How long are they taking this?
Because I was just like.
It was just blood and just so much.
And then it keeps going.
Then she leaves the stage andit's still.
And I'm like, all right, sohow long.
Y'all gonna pick this up?
No.
Okay.
Tim Robinson levels of long.
And it's so.

(59:26):
Okay, now you've got me on awild goose chase.
Okay, so evil Zack Snyder orZack Snyder.
Okay.
Because we take things way,way too far.
Way, way too far.
Evil Dead 2013 is what came tomy mind.
70,000 gallons of.
That was a lot.
I'm remembering the end.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(59:48):
Oh, my God.
But yes, I'm working on it.
While you look, the substanceis 21,000 liters, which is only 5,500
gallons.
Only 55.
Yeah.
I mean, compared to the70,000, of course.
But yeah.
So let's be honest.
That is incredible that.
That she was able to capture5,500 gallons of.

(01:00:10):
Of blood and make it look like.
You see every ounce on screen.
Okay.
Dead, alive.
Any guess?
I.
There's.
It's so much.
It's so much.
It's only 80 gallons.
What he did dead with 70,000 gallons.
What happens when you have a budget?

(01:00:31):
Final scene of.
Yeah, that's what happens whenyou have a budget.
So now we know we've done alittle bit of looking of the.
The fake.
Yeah, I just.
I.
I just have to bring up so thevery final thing, because I think
it does kind of come back to a.
Both an incredibly ridiculousimage, but I think one that actually
is also very, like, poignantat this very end because this a lot

(01:00:56):
monster.
Eliza sue basically fallsapart as it is escaping from the
studio and Bits and pieces arefalling off.
And then all you have left isElizabeth's face, who's been on the
back this entire time,witnessing, but unable do anything
but just, like, open mouth,like, not even scream.
Like, silently scream.
Kind of trapped in her owndecisions and the world around her.

(01:01:19):
Right.
But at the very end, this.
This need she has to be lovedis so, so strong that just her face
crawls over to where her staron the Hollywood Walk of Fame is.
And I'm both like, this issad, but also, like, I guess this
is always how it was gonna endbecause her face just kind of crawls
over to the star.

(01:01:40):
And then she sees.
She looks up and she sees,like, the palm trees.
It's interesting that she seesthree, almost, like, because of the
three versions of herself,because sometimes we'd seen two and
the three.
And then she just sees whatshe experiences as golden sparkles,
which keeps coming back to heras, like, how she experiences what
she thinks is love.
Like, there's a snow globe ofher that's golden sparkles.

(01:02:01):
We've seen that imagery before.
And this very last moment, shesees, like, the stars and the golden
sparkles, and she's on herstar, and she almost has a moment
of peace before she justdissolves into the ground.
And then in the morning, Isaid, it has to be.
It can't be rain, because thatwould be too much.
No, it's just of a street sweeper.

(01:02:21):
Because as it ma.
It doesn't even matter thatshe was there, because that's how
the industry works.
Yeah.
And I thought again, we kind of.
Visually, everything cametogether in.
She both, like, wanted this sobadly, but in the end, it didn't
even matter.
And her star is there, but noone cares anymore because that's
how fame is.
And if that's how you measureyour worth.

(01:02:41):
Not that, like, she's not.
She's not worthless, but shesaw herself as.
Because she was always ext.
Seeking external.
Yes.
Instead of internal.
Yeah.
She brought fully into the commodification.
And that's how it always isgoing to end when you do.
But that monster, Eliza sue,she knew her worth.
She knew what was up.
She did.
Yeah.
That was incredible.

(01:03:05):
So I.
I guess it doesn't really have.
I'm sure these won't be ourfinal thoughts about this movie ever,
because it's going to livewith us.
It's living.
It's forever.
It's in there.
It's in there.
It's part of me.
It's.
Now for our conversationtonight, do we have Any final thoughts?

(01:03:29):
No.
Take care of yourself.
Take care.
You're a one.
No, really, I think, well, Ithink I've exercised at least some
of this movie out of.
Out of my.
But at least, at least themost gross.
Especially that last part.
I almost forgot.
I almost did.
Megan brought us back.

(01:03:50):
Always does.
I mean, it's fine.
I, I, I, I'm sorry.
Listen, no, it's all good.
It is all good.
Yeah, I guess for me.
Yeah.
Just like everything aboutthis film, you know, it does.
It does such a great job in,in, again, just like, all of the

(01:04:13):
themes expressed.
Demi should have gotten an Oscar.
No doubt.
That is my thing.
It's like, she should havegotten an Oscar for this.
And then also, it did.
Don't get an Oscar, I believe,for makeup and makeup and hairstyling.
Yeah.
So.
So I was like, okay, shout outto arts department for sure.

(01:04:33):
But yeah, I, it is, it is anincredible film.
Just again, you.
You all have been warned nowof what to expect.
Yeah, there's one big goopyasterisk next to it.
When you tell people to go big.
Goopy as it's her face at the end.
Oh, my God.
I'm a monster.

(01:04:54):
I know.
Listen when I tell you.
Listen when I tell you.
I.
The minute I got home, I put on.
I think it was across thespider verse.
I had to Spider man across thespider verse.
So that I want that to be thelast thing that I think about before
I go to sleep right now,because I can't with this film.
I was like, listen.

(01:05:14):
And I was right.
Like, I'm driving home and I'mlike, again, the goal was not to
be sad.
The goal was not to be sad,and you were not sad.
I also talked to a staffmember afterwards because he's like,
what did you think?
And I was like, dude, I don'teven know.
Maybe right now.
I don't know what to say toyou right now.
I'm gonna go home, I'm gonnawatch across the spider verse.

(01:05:35):
That's the plan.
That's the plan.
My favorite movies, thatentire franchise until we get beyond
the spider verse.
But, like, no, I, Yeah, I waslike, oh, my God.
And then even waking up thedate after, it was like, what have
I done?
Oh, yeah, funny story.
Just a little quick littlething, you know, as we wrap up, because.

(01:05:57):
And of course, I'm taking over.
But, like, you're great.
I texted.
I, I.
So there's a number of things.
I talked to a staff member.
I Kind of sat there and waslike, I don't know what to think
right now.
And then I texted.
I do remember texting Matt andAdam and being like, so this is how
I set my birthday.

(01:06:17):
I just went.
I just came out of the substance.
And.
And then so they're like, whatdid you think?
And I go, well, it was eitherthis or Sing Sing.
And I chose the substance.
And they're like.
And I think I forget which oneof them asked me, you know?
Well, did you know it wasgonna be a body horror?
Nope.

(01:06:37):
First time.
And then I.
And then Matt immediatelygoes, no.
Yes.
Yes.
I'm hearing it in his voice.
I was gonna say, I can picturethe face.
Yeah, yeah.
Huh.
Those eyes wide.
Oh, I'm so sorry.
And I'm like, yeah, I onlyhave a self to play.
It's fine.

(01:06:58):
I listen.
The goal again, was not.
Cannot be stated enough.
The goal was met.
The goal was met.
So expectations.
There you go.
That's it.
Right?
So it was definitely.
It was definitely aninteresting, Interesting birthday.
The last time I went to go seea film on my birthday, I made my

(01:07:19):
mom come with me to watch thePrison or Prisoners by Geneva.
So that was fun for her.
And so, like, she was like,jackie, how.
Why.
Why would you.
Why would you bring me to this movie?
I was like, it was so good,though, you know?
So anyway, because I'm alittle broken too, But.
But anyway, you're among friends.

(01:07:40):
Yeah.
I'm like, compare.
Compare prisoners.
I.
I mean, they're very.
Two very completely different movies.
I.
I don't know.
But I.
Yeah, so that's.
Yeah, that's my speed.
So we really have to figure out.
We have to look at the releaseschedule next year around your.
Your birthday, and just see ifthere's like a nice.
Just fun comedy or something.

(01:08:02):
Yes.
Yeah.
Something smooth, you know,spiky things.
Right.
Because there's.
And I'm like, there is nothing.
I don't know if there wasanything else, really, because I
was looking and I was like,no, I specifically want to be at
the little theater because,like, it's just comfy.
That's my home away from home.
Right.
And, like, I, Like, I wantedto spend time there.
And again, I think Sing Singwas the only other one because I

(01:08:25):
remember looking.
I usually try to go see amovie either on or around my birthday
in September.
And really there.
I don't think there wasanything else that I was interested
in seeing.
It sounds like it's Adam'sfault, really.
It is Adam's fault.
Yeah.
Why?
Why do you do that?

(01:08:47):
Dear Adam threw you under thebus on the podcast.
What was out at that time?
And yeah, it was slim pickings.
Yeah.
For real.
Like, was it the year before or.
Or two years before?
It was like.
It was the Woman King.
I was like, obviously.
Yeah, obviously.
I'm watching on my birthday.

(01:09:07):
I was like, mom, we're going.
Right?
Oh, my God.
Yeah.
So, no, that last year was just.
I'm like, this is.
This is what I got.
So we're doing it.
We're doing it.
Well, we'll work on Adam andsee if we can't get something programmed
for.
For September for you that doesn't.
Just for me.
Yes.
Steal your soul.

(01:09:27):
Yeah.
The Adam that we're speakingof is our programmer as well for
the Anomaly Film Festivalcoming this November, five through
nine.
That's the fifth through the ninth.
If you're fancy, we'll be atthe Little Theater this year.
We're just going to jump rightinto the.
The gross promotion.
But yeah.
So we are at Anomaly.

(01:09:48):
We are Anomaly.
We are at the little the 5ththrough the 9th.
We'll also be at the DropDryden for another night.
I know that plans are alreadystarted previewing stuff.
Yeah, we already have somepossibilities on the list.
Oh, my God.
That's all I'll say.
Jared Case, bless him, isgoing through that archive and digging
up every single thing that.

(01:10:12):
That probably has neverscreened there before, may never
screen there again.
And it is absolutely Anomalymaterial every single time.
He gets us in a way that notmany people do.
Guinea pigs.
Yeah, exactly.
I'll take it.
If I get to sit there andwatch weird stuff in the Dryden.
I'm like, yeah, experiment.
That's okay.
I know who I am.

(01:10:33):
It blows my mind that thatstuff even lives there.
It's so great.
But, yeah, we're at the littlethe 5th through the 9th.
Keep an eye out onanomalyfilmfuss.com or all of our
socials.
That's Anomaly Film Fest.
More news coming soon.
This episode should be out bythe time this happens.
So Friday night.

(01:10:53):
This is March 5th, so it wouldbe Friday the 7th.
There is actually a screeningof the Substance at the Little.
If you'd like to see it after.
After our discussion.
There's a Q and A with.
After eating.
Yes.
Yeah, have a big meal.
Go to the cafe.
Have a big meal.

(01:11:14):
Fill up.
Get a.
Get a big bucket of fruitpunch in the biggest popcorn you
can get.
Sorry, Jackie.
And go see the Substance.
There's a Q and A afterwardswith author Rachel Harrison.
It'll be a blast.
So check that out.
Keep an eye out on socials forAnomaly and then, Jackie, I'll give
you the last word.
What would you like to promote?

(01:11:36):
Yeah.
Yes.
So I am, of course, as you'vebeen listening, I'm Jack McGriff.
I'm the founder, director andco producer of our Voices project.
We are a production companythat focuses or centers the stories
and lived experiences of Blackbrown Indigenous peoples through
visual storytelling and truth telling.
We also have a podcast calledRepresentation in Cinema and we also

(01:12:00):
hold pen panel discussions.
We not only produce films, butthen a lot of the issues that are
brought up in each of thecommunities that I just explained.
So the black brown Indigenouspeoples, many of the issues that
come up in those communities.
We also like to get educatorsand community and community leaders
and members talking aboutthose issues from those communities

(01:12:22):
to also have a add ineducational piece and also a community
building, building anengagement piece to the experience
as well.
So yeah, we can findus@ourvoicesproject.com you can sign
up for our mailing list.
We're on all the socials.
Yeah.
Facebook, Instagram, Blue sky,tick tock, YouTube.

(01:12:42):
Yes.
Ourvoicesproject.com Doinggreat work, Jackie.
Thank you and thank you forjoining us again.
This is your second time.
We're going to make sure it'snot as long for the third time.
It's always such a pleasure.
So thank you very much, Jackie.
For everybody else, thanks forlistening and we will see you at
the Anomaly Film Fest.
Thanks a lot, everybody.

(01:13:03):
Have a good night.
Bye.
This is where I look for thebuttons because I'm not quite as
professional as my partner.
This has been a presentationof the Lunchadore podcast Network.

All Episodes

Join us for the Anomaly Film Festival November 5-9, 2025 at the Little Theatre in Rochester NY!

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

On Purpose with Jay Shetty