June 24, 2025 • 64 mins
He's baaaack, this time as an official author. Alan Niven returns on the day of his book release: "Sound N' Fury: Rock N' Roll Stories" is now available! ...and I read every word of it. We dive deep into his GN'R and Great White tales. Plus, we recount our previous chat and the reaction it caused.
Order Alan's book here:
https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Fury-Rock-Roll-Stories/dp/1770419942 https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Sound-N-Fury/Alan-Niven/9781770419940
Previous Alan podcast appearances:
Ep. 48: https://youtu.be/ulQ2WfqVYNE?si=I_VSC1LaqhxVcQw1
Ep. 65: https://youtu.be/uYn9_55AENY?si=AbioxoWaWZ5LuMuY
Ep. 102: https://youtu.be/KRffQcAPBFc?si=V8f5GSKdKLrraQkx
Ep: 500: https://youtu.be/zfPntFX48HM?si=33ytaYuYm-QIl4EY
OUR WEBSITE: www.afdpod.com
Order Alan's book here:
https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Fury-Rock-Roll-Stories/dp/1770419942 https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Sound-N-Fury/Alan-Niven/9781770419940
Previous Alan podcast appearances:
Ep. 48: https://youtu.be/ulQ2WfqVYNE?si=I_VSC1LaqhxVcQw1
Ep. 65: https://youtu.be/uYn9_55AENY?si=AbioxoWaWZ5LuMuY
Ep. 102: https://youtu.be/KRffQcAPBFc?si=V8f5GSKdKLrraQkx
Ep: 500: https://youtu.be/zfPntFX48HM?si=33ytaYuYm-QIl4EY
OUR WEBSITE: www.afdpod.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You know.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
This is appetite for distortion. Welcome to the podcast, Appetite
(00:33):
for Distortion. Welcome back to the podcast. I hope I
can call you my friend. I think I can call
you my friend, Ellen Niven. We've broken bread together. I mean,
this is special. You give me all this time, So
my friend. Former Guns n' Roses manager, Great White manager,
current author, Congratulations. The day we're putting this out, Congratulations.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Go ahead, it'll be congratulations if anybody bothers to buy it.
The thing about friendship is this, and this is my
favorite reflection on friendship is that he who ceases to
be a friend was never a friend in the first place.
So that implies to me that the essence of friendship
(01:17):
is continuity and availability, that you're there continuously, and if
you do that, then you're a friend. And here we
are again, Hello friend.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Well said, not to view up too much. I was
just thinking about that in a personal thing in my
life and being like, were they ever really a friend?
So it's an interesting way. This is what we do,
the way to kick off, So i'd be remiss before
we get into your book Congratulations, which I was so
privileged to read, and thank you Sound and Fury rock
(01:50):
and roll stories from Alan Niven Sound and Fury, which
I embarrassingly learned or re remembered. However, I want to
excuse it in my brain. The William Shakespeare quote been
part of Shakespeare. But before we get into that, I'd
be remiss. So we didn't talk about episode five hundred
if we made headlines and news and lots of feedback.
(02:12):
So if you want to kind of do a little
autopsy just a little bit of episode five hundred, because
the first thing right off the bat is the whole
of fifty percent quote, and you said something to me
in an email. You were kind of surprised that that
was picked up, but I think it was the way
that you said it, that Axel has fifty percent of
(02:34):
guns roses. And forgive me if I'm getting it mixed
up with what's in your book and what we spoke about,
So forgive me for that. I think it's in the book,
but this part wasn't and I didn't think about this
during at the time to bring it up. Wouldn't Axels
fifty percent go toward like Richard forties and Dizzy Reid.
(02:54):
It's not like he's taken half of what guns or
Roses makes and that's what what the headline was, or
let you tell me.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Because I have no first hand information as to how
they cover their overhead, and given this is information that
came from people I consider to be unimpeachable resources, my
(03:26):
sense would have been they deal with the overhead, then
the rest is profit, and the profit is divided, fifty
percent goes to him and twenty and twenty goes to
and then maybe ten goes to the rest. The significant
thing to me, there are two significant things. The first
(03:47):
significant thing is if you go and look you can
find online, is he making it very clear that he
was not going to be considering a reunion because they
wouldn't share income with him appropriately or fairy all right,
(04:10):
Then you have to consider that. From my point of view,
I thought is he was the most significant member of
the band. It was his band more than anybody else's.
He's the one who packed his Rattlesnake suitcase and moved
to the city first. He was the one who was
(04:33):
laying down the foundations. So that's inappropriate to me. And
with Axel, people ask if he has a trust issue,
and I say no, I think he has more of
a control issue that whatever was imprinted on him in
(04:56):
his childhood, he felt that he had no control over
his circumstance. So now he has to control everything around him.
And in that respect, control is measured by income. I
(05:17):
suppose that if he gets paid the most, he's in control.
There's a fact. And it's been actual democracy since nineteen ninety.
(05:40):
So there it is. That's all. No.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I completely understand and appreciate that perspective, and that's what
I was really asking for, because I think you use
it more of however he does. And you never pretended
to know. You're not in the inside. You're not the
current manager, and you know you're not assuming anything. You're
told a certain piece of information, and with that, you're
right if it is control. But what I guess it
(06:04):
is interesting when you do go deep into your relationship
with with Axel Rose in your in your book, and
forgive me for not having that on display. You sent
me a pdf. I'll buy it when it comes out,
when it's said today it's it's it's pre order. I
gotta I got to. I have to buy it, and
I'm gonna read it to Harrison when it's age appropriate.
I don't know if he's ready for acid trips. Right now,
(06:27):
we'll get to that. What do we got here? He's
reaching down.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Forgive me for doing this?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Okay, the panthon.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
But but there's a little part of me that goes,
it's actually real.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah, there, it is beautiful.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Actually, it actually exists, and there are believe in me.
There are moments when you're doing it and you think,
am I have I do to get this finish?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (06:57):
You know I want to finish this? Is it worth finishing?
Is there any point to it? Will anybody have the
remotest interest in what you're writing? Does it matter? You know?
You go through all that. But it exists now, and
I have to say that there have been some very
kind responses to it so far, which is good because
(07:20):
I didn't want to write another rock and roll book.
I don't like rock and roll books. They all have
the same story arc, the deprived childhood, the indivisible young
guns against the world, success, girlfriends, wives, mothers, power grabs,
(07:44):
in fighting, dissolution, and then recrimination and blame and finger pointing.
At the end of the book it was all their
fault and they have it. There's all your rock and
roll books. So the first thing I tried to do
was avoid a chronological history or a historical chronology. That
(08:14):
I think is the first fundamental mistake in writing about
rock and roll is doing that because you know, who
cares about your deprived childhood and the East end of
London everybody had one. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
I enjoyed learning about your childhood. It was interesting where
you kept it in the book, where you didn't do things.
That's album that's album notes, and I love that. That's
one of my favorite things. Exactly what you're describing. It's
not in order, but everything you want is there. And
here's the thing. Okay, if you.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Want the album notes, you have to buy the album.
If you only if you only buy the audiobook, you
don't get the album notes.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Okay, Okay, So that's that's for people who actually buy
the book book as the album notes.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
And I approach this like a good record can sometimes
be as inspiring as a good book. So maybe if
a decent book can be as good as a good record,
that's the way to approach it. So each section think
of it as a track that can be free standing,
and you don't depend on the previous or the subsequent
(09:23):
track to make sense of the track you're reading that
all free standing, like on an album. But if you
do it cohesively, you have something that hopefully the needle
drops in an a comes out at the sea, and
there's a sense of continuity of idea and attitude and
point of view, and eventually you go, oh, this record
(09:44):
actually makes sense, or your book makes sense if you
write it like a record. So I tried to write
it like a record. And the other thing that was
important to me was and I was given a really
good book at a crucial moment, and I read the
really good book and I went a hah. They wrote
(10:09):
it for the fan. What I'm doing I need to
do for the merely curious. I don't want to write
for the fan. Fans know everything anyway. What I'm doing
here is writing for the curious. Yeah I heard about
that band? What about that band? And they're standing in
(10:30):
the airport in Cleveland and they noticed the book and
they pick it up and they go, yeah, maybe this
will get me to Atland. That's who I want to
entertain and get them to think, yeah, it was worth
buying this book.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
I'm amused you succeeded because as a fan and as
somebody who's not I've said this, and this is coming
from somebody who's done over five hundred episodes of a
Guns and Roses park. I don't know everything. I don't
know every detail. I really rely on my listeners and
followers for that. So as somebody who's somewhat of a
mix of a diehard fan and a casual I got
(11:11):
what I wanted and it also left me wanting more
with certain stories. So I found that also because you
find that with certain books they beat it to death.
You know, I'm somebody who personally probably over explains a
lot of things. There was not a lot of you
were over explaining or just explained the right things. But
I guess what you're gonna do here on this interview
(11:33):
and as you do more, hopefully because we do deep
dives on what is in that book, so to kind
of circle back with Axel and what you think about
in the childhood. And I understand that maybe it's not
the healthiest way if you're getting control through money, but
you know, learning about your childhood in the in the
(11:55):
notes in the book portion of the book if you
choose to get the audio version of it, and there's
a recent picture that just came out, and he's got
the biggest smile on his face. Is there any part
of you like this guy survived something or is it
still like a business? Am I looking at that as
a fan? Am I still looking at that as a fan?
Because I look at him as like I have to separate,
(12:17):
like you mean, Axel? Yeah, Axel?
Speaker 1 (12:20):
All right, let's let's let's get something straight on about
Axel straight away. First of all, I do not have
a hatred for him. You know, some people do who
must do no, because one of the things you eventually
learned in life is if you carry hatred for anybody,
it's exactly the same as taking poison and expecting the
(12:41):
other person to die. It's entirely stupid and unhealthy. And
I have not spoken to Axel since nineteen ninety one.
I don't know who he is today. I know, but
maybe as much about him as the average fan. But
this I do know. I have an empathy for him,
(13:03):
and I feel sorry for him. And I feel sorry
for him because I'm aware that he had a rotten
childhood and he's got ghosts to deal with his childhood.
Then after his childhood, he has to spend the rest
(13:23):
of his life being Axel fucking Rose. And let me
give you the clear perception I have of that. You
wake up in the morning and as you come to
consciousness and you start to think about what have I
got to do today? If I'm Axel, I'm thinking, am
I going to leave the house today? Because if he
(13:46):
leaves the house, he has to be Axel fucking Rose?
Because the fucking world has taken possession of him. I mean,
who owns who? He owns the world? The world owns
him Devil's bargain. But the fact of the matter is
that he has to go out there and be axe
all every day. Even back then, I had a sense
(14:11):
of preserve your anonymity because it is actually valuable. The
vast majority of people who go through life going am
I relevant? Am I known? Am I seen? Am I
going to be? Anything? Do I matter? And they don't
understand the value of anonymity. But if you lose anonymity,
(14:31):
I'll tell you you feel it and you notice it,
and you have to live with it. Now, I'm fortunate
I've got one foot in and one foot out. To
a small, tiny degree, people recognize me here and there. Okay,
I can deal with that most of the time, nobody
knows who the fuck I am or gives a shit,
(14:51):
which I really like. Okay, they don't bother me. That
doesn't happen for acts.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah, he has to.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Go out there and be ax all every fucking day.
One of the things I admire most about Slash is
that I think he has been incredibly graceful in having
to be fucking Slash every day because he goes out
there and everybody's pulling on his arm. Everybody wants a selfie,
Everybody wants to say I spoke to Slash. Everybody wants
(15:23):
to say what Slash said to them, And a minute
you step out of your front fucking door, you'll pray
and they are hunting for you. I don't have to
do that. You don't have to do that. And I
have an empathy for both of them that they have
to go through life with that kind of profile because
(15:48):
you have no privacy, you have no anonymity, and who
do you trust?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Well then, I mean, I really as I get older,
you know, I look at some of the ways I
used to do as the world treats celebrities, and you
take a step back, and a lot of it is
what you just said. You know, you wake up and
you have to sometimes choose whether to go outside, which
is just insanity to me. The circle.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Think about that being your life, not for a month
or two while you're on tour, but it's your life
every fucking day, you know. And I learned very early
on that you're an anonymity. I'd go home. This will
be nineteen eighty eight, last millennia, last century. I'd go
(16:42):
home and the then wife would be pissed off. So
as people it's knocking on some door, wait and let
the jackets asking if guns and roses lived here, why
are they coming and doing that? Why did they bought
us here? I mean that wasn't back in eighty eight.
Can you imagine living with that from eighty eight to
today's wonder people buy houses with wolves.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
And I understand that as well. And it's scary for
the because there you hear cases of stalkers. I mean
axles had stalkers. You can look it up. Uh, so
many you know pop acts. I mean you just hope
it doesn't get dangerous and they gets an over zealous
fan that wants a hug or something. But uh, it's
it's it is interesting and I really do. I'm glad
(17:25):
you brought up that perspective because that's something I always
I feel, and as usual, I can't put it the
same way that you do. And just so I say
it here and I said it in an email when
I was finished with your book, as I knew, I
had my thesaurus ready with just go googling what does
that word mean? I'm like, man, it's just when when
(17:47):
Harrison learns to read, I'm gonna be really like I mean,
I read to him, you know, Cocoamilon and like a
little Bluie. Once he starts to read, you know, the
Grapes of Wrath and going to school, I'm going to
feel so stupid. Anyway, it's point being well written, and
we could spend so much time on Axel, but we're
(18:09):
not going to. You don't want to. I don't want
to this time and people and this makes me circle
back at the point that I want to lose uh
episode five hundred and things that we were sharing right
now and I want to bring up people were upset
that I would share my life with you and being like,
shut up, we want to hear Alan, and it's it's
(18:34):
I know your reaction, it's how do we how do
we connect? How do we be here right now in
this conversation right now if we didn't connect, and we
didn't have these kinds of conversations on the air and
I connected listeners. But I appreciate your immediate disgust because
it wasn't many here.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Here's the point. People who say that they only want
one half of a conversation probably haven't really thought through
or have not participated in a podcast. And those who
have not participated in podcasts. And I've done way more
(19:11):
than I should have. But I find it hard to
say no, partially because back in the day I said
no to everything. I wouldn't do covers of magazines, I
wouldn't do interviews. I would look at a photographer and say,
if you fucking take a picture of me, last time
you shoot the fucking band, go look for pictures.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
You can't find them, right, you can't. I've done so
many episodes in you promoting you. There are very few
pictures of you.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, And I was really good at preserving my sense
of anonymity. And there was also, you know, the craft
part of me that was going. Once you know something
too much, it loses its mystique. Don't let everybody in
all time, because a little bit of mystique really helps
(20:03):
what you're involved in. So don't let everybody in all
the time was part of it. But here's the thing
about podcasts from somebody who's been in a few. The
podcasts that I enjoy doing the most are the ones
that are conversations as if there was a kitchen table
between us rather than a screen, which means back and forth.
(20:26):
The measure in those doing the podcasts is in understanding
how much back and forth works, and that's whether the
podcast gets to five hundred or doesn't get to five hundred.
So there it is. If you're watching a podcast, you're
looking to get a little bit of the conversational. And
(20:47):
part of the magic of that the conversational is that
that gets beyond preconception and preparation. You start to get
to the spontaneous. When you get to the spontaneous, you're
getting towards the propound and the honest, and a good
(21:10):
podcast will do that. A bad podcast will go for
thirty minutes and the subject of the podcast will basically
get out what they want to get out, and the
guy who's conducting the podcast will say well, thank you
very much for being on for the day, you know,
and that's it. Something that goes a little, a little long.
(21:33):
It's actually worth it if you're into podcasts. And what
I find fascinating is there are so many people who
are really into podcasts.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah, thankfully. Yeah, I had no idea, and I've often
told the story how I thought this idea was very stupid.
At the beginning. I didn't understand the power of podcasts
and everything has its own pocket of fans. And no,
I appreciate you saying that, and it's how awesome. It's
because you're right, is that, Eddie. It's like a cantverstation
at the kitchen table, at wherever we are hanging out.
(22:05):
I want it to sound like where we're hanging out
and you're you're getting a classic gentleman from the UK
and you're getting, you know, a very hyperactive, you know,
talkative person from Long Island. Occasionally I apologize if I interrupt,
but sometimes I think that's how conversations go. It's natural.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
It's not because that's how it goes in Long Island.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
It's Long Islands.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Well, now I'm a part of Queens I'm a part
of Forest Hills. I'm where I'm out the Ramones. That's
that's where I'm from now. Uh, there's so many things
in your book to talk about, and I love it
because it's not people need to understand obviously, like they
listen to this podcast that we love guns and Roses.
You're doing other podcasts, uh that don't deal in GNR.
(22:53):
But one of the things I wanted to talk about
was was Jack Russell. Obviously you spend a lot of
time talking about writing about your time with Great White
and your feelings on just everything. And I appreciate you
being so open about it because did you try because
I know this book was a challenge for you. Was
(23:14):
there any sort of like I wish Jack read this,
was around to see this, because I know it was
a good relationship at times, but it was also a
bad relationship at times. Do you wish he was here
to read it?
Speaker 1 (23:27):
No, he doesn't have to read it, and I don't
have to read his book because for the last few
years his life, we talked regularly on the phone, and
I would not write in a book what I would
say to Jack. I mean, there was no filter between
the pair of us. No filter at all, and that
(23:52):
was one of the reasons why we'd love to each
with us and why our friendship survived everything, including him
having an affair with my first wife for thirteen years,
that we could actually laugh about that at the end
of his life because of what mattered was our friendship
and our connection and what we did together and why
(24:15):
we did it together. And that's what mattered to both
of us. I spent an awful lot of time helping
the person who wrote his book. There's nothing in my
book that I would feel, oh gosh, could I read this?
Suggest No, if Jack read my book, he would have
(24:39):
done this dude stuff you could have said and written,
Thank god, I mean, dude, you let me off the.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Hook, I guess because I found it.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
The thing about it, Here's the thing about writing is
if you have the presumption, even to the point of arrogance,
that you should sit down and form a manuscript and
that it is going to be of any interest or
(25:14):
significance to anyone else. If you're going to do that,
you're obliged, and you're obliged to one thing above all else,
and that is being truthful and honest.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yes, you that's the Getty and live in for sure.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Now, Mick wall is about the only person who writes
a rock and roll book that I can read and
mix send me a message. He's going, welcome to the
authors Club.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
That's nice of him.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Well, obviously, I go.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Back and I go, I know you do. Sorry, you
know that I'm a little chapter what what what the.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Fuck are you talking about, Mick. You are the IMPEX
of this activity. You are the best at doing it,
and I am merely a temporary enthusiastic amateur. And that's it.
He comes back and he says, Ah, you don't get
off that easy. Welcome to the Author's Club. And it's
(26:19):
a curse. And I thought about it for a moment,
and moment, okay, I got it. The curse is that
you're obliged the integrity of honesty, and not everybody wants
to hear it.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
So that's the curse. And that's where I go, Okay,
I'm a member of the Author's Club now. But you've.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
I think a little different, and maybe gin R fans
will respond. And I know your relationship with Nick goes
back for a while, goes back a long ways. It's
different if you're being honest, then if you're making stuff up,
I don't know if how you feel, but you know,
I'm sure you've talked about Axel call him Mick Wall
out and uh and getting the Ring and our recent
(27:05):
interaction where he complained to you about how I said, uh,
Axel would have fought back Vince Neil, like or is
he what asked? Well, Axel would have fought back Vince Neil.
And then Mick was calling me some sort of a
fanboy because I said Axel probably would have beat the
shit out of Vince. He's like, no, no, he wouldn't have.
And I'm like, there are quotes of Alan calling Vince
(27:26):
a powder puff like and then he just whatever blocks
me on Twitter. But that's that's whatever. I digress. It's
not about Mick Wall It's about you. The reason why
you are. You were always an author. Now it's official.
It's the way you talk, it's the way you speak,
it's it's you the user. You have a natural gift
and I'm so glad that you were able to put
(27:47):
it out there.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
That's very kind and very generous. I have been asked
a question by those who review books, how did you
develop your voice? Which obviously to a certain frame of
mind that I sometimes have is a ludicrous question by
talking right, how.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
How else?
Speaker 1 (28:13):
But you take the step with them and you go, Okay,
I understand what you're getting at, and let me explain
to you that I think that writing songs really helped
me writing pages, because there is nothing more confined than
a song into which you're trying to invest some intelligence,
(28:38):
some emotion, and maybe even a little bit of spirit
IQ ask you and equ and you're trying to invest
that into a form of which there are only seven criteria.
I love you, I hate you, I feel good, I
feel bad, World's great, world's fucked up, and finally the question,
(29:00):
which is sort of pink Freud. Were really good at
writing the question. And you're fundamentally working in an extremely
small and tyight medium when you're writing a song. And
you know, one of my favorite teases of people is
to say a song with no content is merely sonic wallpaper. Okay,
(29:25):
you have to have content for it to be connective
and valid in terms of a worthwhile expression. So you've
got this tiny little box, and the whole thing about
getting into that box and getting into it well is
edit edit, edit, edit, edit, you're editing down all the time.
(29:48):
You're editing your language, you're editing your choice of songs.
You become as a songwriter, you become conscious of rhythm
of word and no value of word. That helped me
when I was writing this, because in my head, I'm
not just saying words, I'm hearing them as a songwriter,
(30:09):
there's a rhythm, there's a note value. So part of
what I was trying to stay close to was be
close to the composer within you. Try and write in
a way that it's musical, because it's a book about musicians.
Make it musical if you can. So that was the thinking.
(30:30):
Whether I did it or not, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Everything you're describing is something that you know in an
alternate dimension. If I were to become an author, is
how I would want to become an author. We spoke
about my you know attempt last episode interview with you,
but that's how I respect that you wanted to kind
of sing the language, especially if you don't have a
(30:54):
naturally sing songing language like Italian or something like that.
If it's English, you wanted to saying this is a
good jumping off point because you say this is a
good What I feel is a good comment. You said
never read the comments. I read the comment, but it's
a good of just how capulates us in you, I think,
and why it translates to a book. This is from
(31:16):
a Vicky Overbee on Twitter. I will always call it
twitter did she just finished. This was right after she
finished episode five hundred and changed her opinion on you
just thought you were angry. You know, somebody couldn't get
over getting fired by Axel. But however, now I'm just like,
this guy is awesome. He's funny, and he's not afraid
to speak the truth. So thank you Brando. So the
(31:39):
points I want to jump off is that you're funny
and not in you speak the truth. And thing that's
what also came across in this book was the amount
of times that I laughed. I don't want that to
be lost. So that's that was kind of to read that,
to be like that.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
That was important to me too. And you know, I'm
not a comedian, and I am very impressed by funny
people who can construct presentations of comedy and that takes
a certain self confidence and very dexterous humor. But as
(32:17):
much as I dare I kept trying to remind myself
make sure people laugh when they read this too. There's
got to be stuff in here that is funny, because
I don't want it to come off as a miserable diatribe.
I wanted to be entertaining.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
And there was one time I was out with old
Don Dork and we were out for a night boys together,
and for some reason he said, let's go to the
comedy club on Sunset. Never been in there before in
my life. Okay, Don, let's go. And we go in
(32:56):
there and we're sitting down and there are probably eight
nine people in there tops pardon me, tops, and out
comes Robin Williams, unannounced, unscheduled, just wants to test some
stuff out. And I'm sitting there, going, I can't believe this.
(33:19):
We're getting a Robin Williams, a mini little Robin Williams act.
And I'm looking in the corner of my eyes and
I'm counting eight of us in here. Wow, what a moment.
And he did his bit, and I did something that
was for me out of character. He turned around to leave,
(33:39):
and as he turned around to leave, I called out,
mister Williams, do you translate into English and he throws
like this literally, like this, like this, Fen not moving,
came back to the microphone and then there was another
(34:00):
twenty minutes of English jokes. It was fucking brilliant. But
you know, that's he I think is actually the most
extraordinary talent as a humorous that I know. But to
get back to the book, I was, in my own
(34:22):
way trying to make sure that people laughed as well,
you know, And that's a lovely quote you read, because
you know, as I point out, at the end of
the day, there's a lot that went on that wasn't good,
a lot of things that were done that were malicious
in my direction. I have very right to carry an anger,
(34:44):
but I won't because at this point of my days
and life, and you tend to get a little bit
reflective when you're not twenty seven anymore. I look at
it and go, fuck me, what a fucking amazing ride
I've had, What a fucking incredible life I've led, And
(35:08):
I'm glad where I am today. There's a part of
me that goes, you know, if we've got richer, I
might have ended up drinking myself to death years ago
and being a drunken asshole instead of somebody who's pleased
to have a sobriety and I'm pleased to looking back
(35:32):
and going, yeah, we did some things that were worthwhile. Yeah,
there are a lot of negatives. Who does not have
a life that does not have rainfall into it. And
the end of the day, what I finally come down to,
Brando is it's a fucking privilege because when I step
out of here today and I go and have my
breakfast and some fucking moron an eighteen wheeler doesn't see
(35:55):
me step off the curve and squishes me across his
truck while I'm I'm there in the curb. I'll go.
You know, I didn't have to wonder what would what
would it be like to do this or to do that,
or to see that, or to go there or to
have this happen.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yeah, as Macaba as that might be, I understand, Uh,
I kind of to talk about myself. I feel that
a way about having a son. I'm like, all right, well,
if I die tomorrow, at least I did something. I
feel that so ill.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
At the end of the day. I mean, I think
pretty much on a global scale, as a species, we
fuck up on two things constantly, just two two major
ones for me, if we if we altered these two circumstances,
(36:55):
I think we would have a much much better world.
One it's a treat and women.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Agreed.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
And two it's how we raise our kids agreed. If
we did those two things better, what a great world
we would have? You know. In nove November the eleventh, nineteen,
nineteen nineteen eighteen, it's the end of the war to
end all wars. Imagine if we had never manufactured another weapon,
(37:32):
another bullet, another bomb, another means of destruction from that
year nineteen eighteen. Can you imagine how wonderful this planet
would be at the moment that all the money that
has been spent on fighting and destruction was actually put
(37:54):
into infrastructure and education and health and caring about people.
And that's where Axel nailed it on Civil War. And
I was so thrilled with his writing of Civil War.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Way to turn it around. I love that. See, that's
why you're a natural writer. You brought everything around. Uh
you are? You are so right about everything, and you
know what this is. It makes me think of a
story I don't think I brought up, UH brought up
last time and considering the source, you will probably say
it's bullshit.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
I was once told by by Doug that early on
that you had tried to give Axel lyrics on a bus.
He threw the lyrics out of the window because you know,
you come from Great White, you were Great White, and
he's like, you're not my Bernie Toppin. And that was
like kind of the one of the first cracks. I mean,
(38:53):
somebody who's still writing lyrics to you know, albeit in
chapter form to this day, who has written and you
have written hits and music. Is that something you've tried
to do at the beginning of gn R or is
that a completely fabricated story.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
It's an abuse story, which is typical of Douglas. And
if you bring him up.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
The only time, only time, only time, I promise.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
You bring him up on time, it's an abuse story.
On and I'll give a caveat to this too is
(39:39):
And on the first level, I was not going to
compromise my relationship with Great White, and my relationship with
Great White at that point had become fundamentally creative, okay.
And I was concentrating on Jack's persona. I was concentrating
(40:00):
on the development of the band. I was concentrating on
moving on from being a wanna be Judas van Haydn,
all right, And I knew where I wanted to take them,
and I knew where we could go, and I knew
it would work because I'd been around them for five years,
all right. So you're around seventy five years, you going, yeah,
(40:22):
I think I've got it now. So that's one I
was not going to compromise my relationship with Greyway. Secondly,
Axel was not Jack. Jack was not Axel. Axel didn't
need anybody to write for him. When I got my
(40:46):
demo tape and listen to the songs on there, I
called zouits out And one of the weakest performances on
the tape was to me one of the most significant songs.
And I made a point of telling suit out, keep
(41:11):
an eye out for this song. We've got to watch
for this song. This song is an important song. It's
a good song, it's an important song. It's not the
best on the tape, but it's going to be an
important song if we get it.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
I want to guess what do I want to guess?
Sweitch Out of Mine, Welcome to the Jungle.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
No no, Welcome to the Joungle. Okay, sweet Child of
Mine is just another fucking love story. I mean, you
know me well enough that there were songs that I
really attune to are the question songs, Civil War Jungle?
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Okay, I was something else to bring up because I
was I'm really trying because the comments got to the
last time, just to let you breathe it out, breathe
it out. I'm like, oh, should I ask what song?
Or is it gonna tell me? So welcome to the Jungle.
That's this is me sitting back.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
So so anyways, where were we? What the fuck were
we talking about? Lyrics and buses? Last show that we
did on the cover with the Colt with the New
Orleans we had a long ride home from New Orleans
(42:28):
to LA in the bus. That's that's a twenty four
hour drive where Anyway. I have a memory of west
star Keen being on the bus in a night shirt
(42:50):
and a pair of cowber boots and being really fucking
obnoxious and annoying and someone that I was really tempted
to push out of the bus in textas and let
him find his own fucking way home because he really
was obnoxious. I was never a big fan or west
(43:11):
ar Key, and I remember him making some sarcastic remarks
about great whites rop me, okay, and I'm thinking for myself, yeah, dude,
but it's on the radio and it's a good song,
and it's well constructed and it's got a great arrangement
(43:33):
to it. And I seem to remember that he challenged me, like,
but you couldn't write a real lyric. So I wrote
something down for him and that.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Was it, okay, and that was what was presented.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Now, okay, yes, Now did I ever sit with Axel
and say your lyrics suck, let me roll up my sleeves,
you're out of your ever loving fucking mind. I didn't
have to do that because his lyrics didn't suck, and
he was a good writer. And if he wasn't a
good writer, I had fucking Easy, who I thought was
(44:09):
brilliant because he had street vernacular down to a point
that I was like, fuck, I wish I could write,
I can. I love the way Eas he wrote. He
had that absolutely incontrovertible street vernacular. No, I didn't try,
and I pinch myself that is another manufacturer by gold
(44:32):
Swine trying to justify his treachery.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Let's move on something else. I'd be remiss if I
didn't bring up and you could say, if you want
to leave it for the book as a mystery to
go back there the Great White One of the parts
that made me laugh was where he hit his drugs
Jack Russell. I was kind of like, do you want
to leave that as like a hidden thing the book? Okay,
(45:00):
it's just not.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
One of it's one of the good laughs in the book.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Yeah, that's why I didn't expect it as we were
talking about Jack Russell. Now, unfortunately, that's all I can
think about. So that's what I'll let people read and
and and and find that out. Also, I'd be remiss
if you know, you knowing the natural, whether it's you're
happy that you were able to easily dissect what a
(45:24):
rock and roll book is. You know, you have this party,
you have this act. Would you ever want to write
something fiction now that this is out? Would you want
to write a you know?
Speaker 1 (45:35):
The honest truth is that I didn't want to write
this book.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
I know, so I didn't know if it was something
different it was.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
It was a chure when when I first attempted it
and I did it with the lack of imagination that
I would approach I approach it with, which was, well,
you're going to write rock and roll book, you write,
you know, this is how you do it. And I
(46:01):
found it tedious. I found it boring. I found it depressing,
and I found it a chore. And I didn't enjoy it.
And I did actually send it to someone hoping that
i'd get a negative from them, because if I got
a negative from them, I could shelve it and blame them,
(46:24):
which was what I was hoping for. And instead I
got this email back saying books, great, finish it, so
I had to shelve it. It was not something that
I felt compelled to do. It was not something that
I went if you want to look good in history,
(46:49):
you have to write it, you know. It was nothing
like that. The amount of times I got asked, when
are you going to write the book? It was a chore.
It was something on my back. So to get it
done and finished and in a way that I thought, yeah,
this might work, this is okay, that's sufficient. If I
(47:12):
remember correctly, you were asking are we going to do
this as fiction?
Speaker 2 (47:15):
At some point yeah, Well, because by the way it
was Slash by the way, who encouraged you right the way,
who said like you wanted to know because I think
you said that last time, because the point being your
way with words, and even in your email, it just
would be was it hard in a task because it
was your life or because it was writing because you
(47:35):
have such a natural ability to write, and maybe that
you've you know, popped your cherry and just the author now.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
That I've never considered myself to be an author, budding
author or a potential or author. And one of the
common questions is why now. Well, part of why now
is before my brain stops functioning completely. And second, it's
also fucking old that I can be objective about it.
(48:04):
I mean, if you'd come in to me thirty years
ago and said, nil, the stuff that you're recording today
is going to be on the radio thirty years from now,
I'd have looked at you and I said, I don't
know what you're sniffing or smoking, but share it, because
if it makes me that optimistic about life that I want,
I want some of it too. I mean, there was
no way back then that we thought that the Rolling
(48:28):
Stones would still be touring in their eighties had you
said that in nineteen eighty eight, I'd have gone, you're
fucking crazy, right. I know.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
I still because I'm crazy. I watch old Simpson episodes
and there was one of an old Rolling Stones joke
in there, and there's like an old twenty year old
episode that they're talking about them being old twenty years ago,
and you talk about them a lot in the book too.
I was actually a little surprised that you were a
(49:01):
little harsh. I thought, I was surprised. I thought you
on the Stones, weren't you in the book.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
No, I just gave you my opinion, which I think
is valid. And bear in mind that they had a
tremendous impact on my consciousness in the late sixties early seventies,
and for me, the apex and brilliance of that band
was between sixty nine and seventy three, and seventy three
(49:29):
was the live apex of that band. And all the
cognate centi who know everything say Exiles on Mainstream is
their brilliant work, and I go, well, it might have
been if they had recorded it in muscle shoals, but
it's not. Their apex is beggars Banquet, Let it bleed
(49:51):
and sticky fingers. So those three records are just genius together.
So you know this is schizophrenia because that's my Rolling Stones. Yeah,
the people who come along in nineteen eighty eight who
seemed to be going through the motions for money, that's
(50:14):
not my rolling Stones. My Rolling Stones were on fire,
were completely uncontainable, were beautifully unpredictable, and they were dead
on and they weren't perceived to being driven by materialism.
(50:41):
It was a spirit within them that were so engaging.
Once you get to nineteen eighty eight, nineteen ninety two
and nineteen ninety six, and you know, they wheel it
out and everybody buys a ticket and Jagger goes and
counts off his millions in his banking counts offshore. You
(51:05):
are the people we were up against in the sixties.
Get me.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
This sounds very familiar about another band that we often
talk about a little bit kind of situation mirrors. Do
you do you hope Izzy reads the book? Do you
hope he hear you hear back from him? Because you
can really censor what you always can in every interview
when you talk about Isy and how important he was
and how hurt you were at certain times when your
(51:34):
relationship deteriorated. Is he someone that you expect to hear
from or where's Izzy? Is that going to be just
I'm not sure what you what if you do expect
to hear from him or want it that you care.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
I have someone who I can check in with occasion
and ask the question that is the only question that
really concerns me about him, And the question is how's
I is he? How's his health? Is he okay? And
if I get back, Oh, he's fine, I go good.
Because I didn't like a little a recent photograph I
saw him. That scared me, you know, But that's it.
(52:13):
I just hope he's well. I hope he's well. I
don't think he's ever for a coupboard from GNR.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
It's pretty amazing because I was going to ask before.
And you're when you're really highlighting his songwriting and his
lyrics and when you guys got together for the Juju Hounds,
it just seems like it seems like another like a
match made in heaven. You're taking away I guess the
unpredictability of Axel and you're focusing with Izzy, and uh,
(52:44):
is that why he never really stuck with the band?
And he's put all these albums and it's just like,
unless you're a hardcore fan, you're not even aware of it.
He seems to have disappeared.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
So he's in a position where he can he can
lead his life as he wishes to and you know,
deal with being easy too. But there's a curiosity there
(53:18):
because I think there was a tiny part of it
he that really did want to see if he could
be really successful. But when he was really successful, it
didn't work for him, and he wasn't I wasn't happy
with it, you know, not a dress rehears, so we
all go around. Once he can live off his ororties.
(53:38):
He can have a two of us and go driving
into the desert when he wants to. Dude, well done,
that's your life and you're happy and you got your
dog Traider with you. Good.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
I found that interesting because I spoke to Bernard Balor.
I don't know if that's sort of the picture you're
referring to, if that was, or if that was just
a off handed comment. That is, he was at a
Stone show, I believe last year, and him and Bernard
Follower took a picture together. Bernard posted it. I interviewed
Bernard about it, and he's like, yeah, what is he?
What you up to? I'm just writing writing music, you know,
(54:14):
And it's just like, where is it? Is he the
kind of guy that would just write music for himself,
never to see the light of day again. I'm I'm
asking you to assume, because it's not like you talked
to him like that. But I just found that so peculiar.
Interesting is that he's writing music, but and also all
this stuff has been it seems to be taken down
off like Spotify, a lot of his stuff has been
(54:35):
taken off streaming. So it's just very peculiar. Why this is,
I don't know. I don't know if you have you
heard that before. You can't get any of his stuff
streaming anymore. I don't know if that's that may have
changed since I posted this episode, but as of now,
all the solo albums are you can't stream him.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
Well maybe maybe maybe acc decide do you wanted to
buy all of his songs? I don't. I mean, he
bought all his friends photographs. Robert John, he bought all
his photographs, but you know, who knows.
Speaker 2 (55:15):
I guess I just thought that was an interesting thing
because that's something else that sticks with me with the
bugs when you talk about your relationship with him.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
And the real simple thing is I've got some really
good memories of my time to this, and I value
those memories and that's good enough. You know, yeah, that's
really good enough. I have good memories with anonymous people.
(55:44):
That's good enough too. So you know that was then,
it's not now. The weird thing is is that you
and I are here on a Thursday afternoon in the
year two thousand and twenty five talking about that happened
almost half fucking century ago. That's the weird thing.
Speaker 2 (56:05):
Weird sad? Is it sad? People people talk about the
less important things. I guess I know it's it's strange,
but I mean it's it's the beauty of music. It's
why people want to buy your or are buying your book.
It's a it's a time capital for people who either
want to relive it or like me, who didn't live it.
Speaker 1 (56:27):
Exactly. It's not sad in that it's quite It quite
encourages your sense of humanity and connectivity with other people
that people are amused or are interested in what you
participated in all that time ago, but all that time ago.
(56:54):
There were times I used to walk into a bookstore
and I used to look at the books, bringing everything
around in a circle. Here. I used to look at
all the books, and I would try and remind myself
that what was being played on the radio and have
been manufactured by the contemporary record companies might be taking
(57:21):
up space and time. But if you look at the
books in a bookstore, there are books that have been
here for and they've had lives fifty one hundred years,
three hundred years. They've had irrelevance to many generations. And
not that I expected that out of rock and roll music,
(57:42):
but it reminded me why do people come and buy
old books? Why do I use Shakespeare to open my book?
Because if you're get to write, you have to acknowledge.
The first thing about Shakespeare is that he nailed human
(58:05):
psychology so well and so consistently and better than anybody since.
And I use Macbeth because there's the opportunity for self deprecation.
I'm just a fucking idiot carrying some stupid stories, as
(58:27):
Macbeth put it on. And it's all about idiots and misfits,
which is rock and rolls. And there's a little hint
in there it comes from Macbeth. So don't be surprised
if some witches turn up, or some crazy wives, or
there are some betrayals. You might find that in there too.
(58:50):
But the bottom line is to remember what NIV said.
NIV said that rock and roll is God's occupation for
the unemployable. At the start and the end of it,
all of us were unemployable and looking to remain unemployed
and not be accountants, not be a working stiff, not
(59:11):
have to do the hard graft that everybody has to do.
We wanted to be cheeky and get away with playing
all our lives. And if we have to write a
little book that says thank you for letting us play,
then maybe that's part of the book too, just saying
(59:32):
we played.
Speaker 2 (59:34):
You certainly you play. You're taught again. I learned a lot.
I laughed. It really is fun to read, and I
kind of wish I didn't read it so quickly because
I was just I kind of wish I enjoyed it
a little bit more so over time. But I guess
I could read it again. That's the beauty of a book.
(59:57):
Because congratulations, I'm glad I asked about because the ending
of just I wanted to know more about Alan. I
love that about you because it's the same thing I
say about myself. Who cares about me? Even though I
talk about myself, it's to connect with the guest, it's
you do the same thing. That's why we connect. You're like,
who cares about me? But you talk about yourself because
(01:00:17):
that's how you connect. So to learn about you, know,
your your family that have just chapters on doing acid?
Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
Is it something I can only experience the reading. I've
never tried acid. I'm not going to try anytime soon,
so I appreciate the inside of what it's like to do.
Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
Uh, to do too old? Let me tell you too
old for it? Now?
Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
You're too old and too fathered for that.
Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Now.
Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
I wouldn't do that.
Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
Yeah, exactly, too old for it. Now. It's a young
spirits occupation and adventure.
Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
And to hear yeah, people again, it's not all guns
and roses, but to hear your adventures of just going
to different countries and just being functional. Sometime, if you
could be functional and acid, Alan Niven was functional. Here's
some of the things that you accomplished. It was pretty cool.
And to learn I've had endless conversations with you on
and off air to learn a lot about you. Was
(01:01:12):
was pretty cool and I'm glad that it's documented for
the rest of history, you know, sound and fury and.
Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
Bottom line, it's there to entertain and if if it
stimulates a little bit of of thought that maybe changes
your perspective just slightly to some degree on something, then
it's worked. Then it's that. That's what you can ask for.
The most important thing is is that it's entertaining.
Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
Oh I was. That's what I look for. It's entertaining,
and it's the ability of laugh because that's the same
thing with my interviews, whether it's a ten in interview
or if it's an hour or whatever. I got to
make you laugh. It's it's just how I operate, uh,
And the connect you know, how do I How does
the quote common man connect with the rock star who
(01:02:04):
doesn't live that life? So that's why you know, I'll
look at.
Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
Us the rock star is a fucking common man when
he takes his pants off and puts his trousers.
Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
One.
Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
That's the point I'm in the book I'm trying to
make yes, is that we are all common men and
perhaps we might have got ourselves into some extraordinary circumstance,
but we all make the bathroom smell the same.
Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
That's a nice way to put it. Uncommon man and
common man in uncommon situations. With going number two, I
love it and just thank you so much. People listen, get.
Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
Thanks to mine. You're the host. This is your hospitality.
I really appreciate you giving me some space and time
and letting me ramble on about the book. Hopefully two
people go out there and buy it.
Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
Well. I appreciate your stories in the time that you've
given me, not just today but over the years. And
you know, after the color came back to my face
when I was wrote carsick, when we actually met up
and I was eating some French fries and ginger ale
and you know, so, I mean, it's We've had some
great conversations and I really appreciative of whether I'm whether
(01:03:30):
the record button is hit or not. I still want
to thank you for your time and just be on
not just for Alan's book. He's going to be doing
more interviews. And this guy's an endless Yeah. I know
his book is done, but his jukebox is endless. So
more stories. Go listen to more interviews that Alan does
with other podcasts.
Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
If you believe you me, I am very aware of
the fact that there's a little bit of a bump
at the moment because of promoting a book. Believe you know.
Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
Once you that, how I am going to make sure
that I'm disappearing, not around and annoying people anymore.
Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
Enjoy allen while you can.
Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
All right listen to you every one Forday, I'm going
to go and get breakfast.
Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
You got it. So that does it for this episode
of Appetite for the Stortion. When will we see the
next one? In the words of Axl Rose concerning Chinese democracy,
I don't know as soon as the word, but you'll
see it.
Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
Thanks to the lame ass security. I'm going home.
You know.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
This is appetite for distortion. Welcome to the podcast, Appetite
(00:33):
for Distortion. Welcome back to the podcast. I hope I
can call you my friend. I think I can call
you my friend, Ellen Niven. We've broken bread together. I mean,
this is special. You give me all this time, So
my friend. Former Guns n' Roses manager, Great White manager,
current author, Congratulations. The day we're putting this out, Congratulations.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Go ahead, it'll be congratulations if anybody bothers to buy it.
The thing about friendship is this, and this is my
favorite reflection on friendship is that he who ceases to
be a friend was never a friend in the first place.
So that implies to me that the essence of friendship
(01:17):
is continuity and availability, that you're there continuously, and if
you do that, then you're a friend. And here we
are again, Hello friend.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Well said, not to view up too much. I was
just thinking about that in a personal thing in my
life and being like, were they ever really a friend?
So it's an interesting way. This is what we do,
the way to kick off, So i'd be remiss before
we get into your book Congratulations, which I was so
privileged to read, and thank you Sound and Fury rock
(01:50):
and roll stories from Alan Niven Sound and Fury, which
I embarrassingly learned or re remembered. However, I want to
excuse it in my brain. The William Shakespeare quote been
part of Shakespeare. But before we get into that, I'd
be remiss. So we didn't talk about episode five hundred
if we made headlines and news and lots of feedback.
(02:12):
So if you want to kind of do a little
autopsy just a little bit of episode five hundred, because
the first thing right off the bat is the whole
of fifty percent quote, and you said something to me
in an email. You were kind of surprised that that
was picked up, but I think it was the way
that you said it, that Axel has fifty percent of
(02:34):
guns roses. And forgive me if I'm getting it mixed
up with what's in your book and what we spoke about,
So forgive me for that. I think it's in the book,
but this part wasn't and I didn't think about this
during at the time to bring it up. Wouldn't Axels
fifty percent go toward like Richard forties and Dizzy Reid.
(02:54):
It's not like he's taken half of what guns or
Roses makes and that's what what the headline was, or
let you tell me.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Because I have no first hand information as to how
they cover their overhead, and given this is information that
came from people I consider to be unimpeachable resources, my
(03:26):
sense would have been they deal with the overhead, then
the rest is profit, and the profit is divided, fifty
percent goes to him and twenty and twenty goes to
and then maybe ten goes to the rest. The significant
thing to me, there are two significant things. The first
(03:47):
significant thing is if you go and look you can
find online, is he making it very clear that he
was not going to be considering a reunion because they
wouldn't share income with him appropriately or fairy all right,
(04:10):
Then you have to consider that. From my point of view,
I thought is he was the most significant member of
the band. It was his band more than anybody else's.
He's the one who packed his Rattlesnake suitcase and moved
to the city first. He was the one who was
(04:33):
laying down the foundations. So that's inappropriate to me. And
with Axel, people ask if he has a trust issue,
and I say no, I think he has more of
a control issue that whatever was imprinted on him in
(04:56):
his childhood, he felt that he had no control over
his circumstance. So now he has to control everything around him.
And in that respect, control is measured by income. I
(05:17):
suppose that if he gets paid the most, he's in control.
There's a fact. And it's been actual democracy since nineteen ninety.
(05:40):
So there it is. That's all. No.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I completely understand and appreciate that perspective, and that's what
I was really asking for, because I think you use
it more of however he does. And you never pretended
to know. You're not in the inside. You're not the
current manager, and you know you're not assuming anything. You're
told a certain piece of information, and with that, you're
right if it is control. But what I guess it
(06:04):
is interesting when you do go deep into your relationship
with with Axel Rose in your in your book, and
forgive me for not having that on display. You sent
me a pdf. I'll buy it when it comes out,
when it's said today it's it's it's pre order. I
gotta I got to. I have to buy it, and
I'm gonna read it to Harrison when it's age appropriate.
I don't know if he's ready for acid trips. Right now,
(06:27):
we'll get to that. What do we got here? He's
reaching down.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Forgive me for doing this?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Okay, the panthon.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
But but there's a little part of me that goes,
it's actually real.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah, there, it is beautiful.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Actually, it actually exists, and there are believe in me.
There are moments when you're doing it and you think,
am I have I do to get this finish?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (06:57):
You know I want to finish this? Is it worth finishing?
Is there any point to it? Will anybody have the
remotest interest in what you're writing? Does it matter? You know?
You go through all that. But it exists now, and
I have to say that there have been some very
kind responses to it so far, which is good because
(07:20):
I didn't want to write another rock and roll book.
I don't like rock and roll books. They all have
the same story arc, the deprived childhood, the indivisible young
guns against the world, success, girlfriends, wives, mothers, power grabs,
(07:44):
in fighting, dissolution, and then recrimination and blame and finger pointing.
At the end of the book it was all their
fault and they have it. There's all your rock and
roll books. So the first thing I tried to do
was avoid a chronological history or a historical chronology. That
(08:14):
I think is the first fundamental mistake in writing about
rock and roll is doing that because you know, who
cares about your deprived childhood and the East end of
London everybody had one. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
I enjoyed learning about your childhood. It was interesting where
you kept it in the book, where you didn't do things.
That's album that's album notes, and I love that. That's
one of my favorite things. Exactly what you're describing. It's
not in order, but everything you want is there. And
here's the thing. Okay, if you.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Want the album notes, you have to buy the album.
If you only if you only buy the audiobook, you
don't get the album notes.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Okay, Okay, So that's that's for people who actually buy
the book book as the album notes.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
And I approach this like a good record can sometimes
be as inspiring as a good book. So maybe if
a decent book can be as good as a good record,
that's the way to approach it. So each section think
of it as a track that can be free standing,
and you don't depend on the previous or the subsequent
(09:23):
track to make sense of the track you're reading that
all free standing, like on an album. But if you
do it cohesively, you have something that hopefully the needle
drops in an a comes out at the sea, and
there's a sense of continuity of idea and attitude and
point of view, and eventually you go, oh, this record
(09:44):
actually makes sense, or your book makes sense if you
write it like a record. So I tried to write
it like a record. And the other thing that was
important to me was and I was given a really
good book at a crucial moment, and I read the
really good book and I went a hah. They wrote
(10:09):
it for the fan. What I'm doing I need to
do for the merely curious. I don't want to write
for the fan. Fans know everything anyway. What I'm doing
here is writing for the curious. Yeah I heard about
that band? What about that band? And they're standing in
(10:30):
the airport in Cleveland and they noticed the book and
they pick it up and they go, yeah, maybe this
will get me to Atland. That's who I want to
entertain and get them to think, yeah, it was worth
buying this book.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
I'm amused you succeeded because as a fan and as
somebody who's not I've said this, and this is coming
from somebody who's done over five hundred episodes of a
Guns and Roses park. I don't know everything. I don't
know every detail. I really rely on my listeners and
followers for that. So as somebody who's somewhat of a
mix of a diehard fan and a casual I got
(11:11):
what I wanted and it also left me wanting more
with certain stories. So I found that also because you
find that with certain books they beat it to death.
You know, I'm somebody who personally probably over explains a
lot of things. There was not a lot of you
were over explaining or just explained the right things. But
I guess what you're gonna do here on this interview
(11:33):
and as you do more, hopefully because we do deep
dives on what is in that book, so to kind
of circle back with Axel and what you think about
in the childhood. And I understand that maybe it's not
the healthiest way if you're getting control through money, but
you know, learning about your childhood in the in the
(11:55):
notes in the book portion of the book if you
choose to get the audio version of it, and there's
a recent picture that just came out, and he's got
the biggest smile on his face. Is there any part
of you like this guy survived something or is it
still like a business? Am I looking at that as
a fan? Am I still looking at that as a fan?
Because I look at him as like I have to separate,
(12:17):
like you mean, Axel? Yeah, Axel?
Speaker 1 (12:20):
All right, let's let's let's get something straight on about
Axel straight away. First of all, I do not have
a hatred for him. You know, some people do who
must do no, because one of the things you eventually
learned in life is if you carry hatred for anybody,
it's exactly the same as taking poison and expecting the
(12:41):
other person to die. It's entirely stupid and unhealthy. And
I have not spoken to Axel since nineteen ninety one.
I don't know who he is today. I know, but
maybe as much about him as the average fan. But
this I do know. I have an empathy for him,
(13:03):
and I feel sorry for him. And I feel sorry
for him because I'm aware that he had a rotten
childhood and he's got ghosts to deal with his childhood.
Then after his childhood, he has to spend the rest
(13:23):
of his life being Axel fucking Rose. And let me
give you the clear perception I have of that. You
wake up in the morning and as you come to
consciousness and you start to think about what have I
got to do today? If I'm Axel, I'm thinking, am
I going to leave the house today? Because if he
(13:46):
leaves the house, he has to be Axel fucking Rose?
Because the fucking world has taken possession of him. I mean,
who owns who? He owns the world? The world owns
him Devil's bargain. But the fact of the matter is
that he has to go out there and be axe
all every day. Even back then, I had a sense
(14:11):
of preserve your anonymity because it is actually valuable. The
vast majority of people who go through life going am
I relevant? Am I known? Am I seen? Am I
going to be? Anything? Do I matter? And they don't
understand the value of anonymity. But if you lose anonymity,
(14:31):
I'll tell you you feel it and you notice it,
and you have to live with it. Now, I'm fortunate
I've got one foot in and one foot out. To
a small, tiny degree, people recognize me here and there. Okay,
I can deal with that most of the time, nobody
knows who the fuck I am or gives a shit,
(14:51):
which I really like. Okay, they don't bother me. That
doesn't happen for acts.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah, he has to.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Go out there and be ax all every fucking day.
One of the things I admire most about Slash is
that I think he has been incredibly graceful in having
to be fucking Slash every day because he goes out
there and everybody's pulling on his arm. Everybody wants a selfie,
Everybody wants to say I spoke to Slash. Everybody wants
(15:23):
to say what Slash said to them, And a minute
you step out of your front fucking door, you'll pray
and they are hunting for you. I don't have to
do that. You don't have to do that. And I
have an empathy for both of them that they have
to go through life with that kind of profile because
(15:48):
you have no privacy, you have no anonymity, and who
do you trust?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Well then, I mean, I really as I get older,
you know, I look at some of the ways I
used to do as the world treats celebrities, and you
take a step back, and a lot of it is
what you just said. You know, you wake up and
you have to sometimes choose whether to go outside, which
is just insanity to me. The circle.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Think about that being your life, not for a month
or two while you're on tour, but it's your life
every fucking day, you know. And I learned very early
on that you're an anonymity. I'd go home. This will
be nineteen eighty eight, last millennia, last century. I'd go
(16:42):
home and the then wife would be pissed off. So
as people it's knocking on some door, wait and let
the jackets asking if guns and roses lived here, why
are they coming and doing that? Why did they bought
us here? I mean that wasn't back in eighty eight.
Can you imagine living with that from eighty eight to
today's wonder people buy houses with wolves.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
And I understand that as well. And it's scary for
the because there you hear cases of stalkers. I mean
axles had stalkers. You can look it up. Uh, so
many you know pop acts. I mean you just hope
it doesn't get dangerous and they gets an over zealous
fan that wants a hug or something. But uh, it's
it's it is interesting and I really do. I'm glad
(17:25):
you brought up that perspective because that's something I always
I feel, and as usual, I can't put it the
same way that you do. And just so I say
it here and I said it in an email when
I was finished with your book, as I knew, I
had my thesaurus ready with just go googling what does
that word mean? I'm like, man, it's just when when
(17:47):
Harrison learns to read, I'm gonna be really like I mean,
I read to him, you know, Cocoamilon and like a
little Bluie. Once he starts to read, you know, the
Grapes of Wrath and going to school, I'm going to
feel so stupid. Anyway, it's point being well written, and
we could spend so much time on Axel, but we're
(18:09):
not going to. You don't want to. I don't want
to this time and people and this makes me circle
back at the point that I want to lose uh
episode five hundred and things that we were sharing right
now and I want to bring up people were upset
that I would share my life with you and being like,
shut up, we want to hear Alan, and it's it's
(18:34):
I know your reaction, it's how do we how do
we connect? How do we be here right now in
this conversation right now if we didn't connect, and we
didn't have these kinds of conversations on the air and
I connected listeners. But I appreciate your immediate disgust because
it wasn't many here.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Here's the point. People who say that they only want
one half of a conversation probably haven't really thought through
or have not participated in a podcast. And those who
have not participated in podcasts. And I've done way more
(19:11):
than I should have. But I find it hard to
say no, partially because back in the day I said
no to everything. I wouldn't do covers of magazines, I
wouldn't do interviews. I would look at a photographer and say,
if you fucking take a picture of me, last time
you shoot the fucking band, go look for pictures.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
You can't find them, right, you can't. I've done so
many episodes in you promoting you. There are very few
pictures of you.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, And I was really good at preserving my sense
of anonymity. And there was also, you know, the craft
part of me that was going. Once you know something
too much, it loses its mystique. Don't let everybody in
all time, because a little bit of mystique really helps
(20:03):
what you're involved in. So don't let everybody in all
the time was part of it. But here's the thing
about podcasts from somebody who's been in a few. The
podcasts that I enjoy doing the most are the ones
that are conversations as if there was a kitchen table
between us rather than a screen, which means back and forth.
(20:26):
The measure in those doing the podcasts is in understanding
how much back and forth works, and that's whether the
podcast gets to five hundred or doesn't get to five hundred.
So there it is. If you're watching a podcast, you're
looking to get a little bit of the conversational. And
(20:47):
part of the magic of that the conversational is that
that gets beyond preconception and preparation. You start to get
to the spontaneous. When you get to the spontaneous, you're
getting towards the propound and the honest, and a good
(21:10):
podcast will do that. A bad podcast will go for
thirty minutes and the subject of the podcast will basically
get out what they want to get out, and the
guy who's conducting the podcast will say well, thank you
very much for being on for the day, you know,
and that's it. Something that goes a little, a little long.
(21:33):
It's actually worth it if you're into podcasts. And what
I find fascinating is there are so many people who
are really into podcasts.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah, thankfully. Yeah, I had no idea, and I've often
told the story how I thought this idea was very stupid.
At the beginning. I didn't understand the power of podcasts
and everything has its own pocket of fans. And no,
I appreciate you saying that, and it's how awesome. It's
because you're right, is that, Eddie. It's like a cantverstation
at the kitchen table, at wherever we are hanging out.
(22:05):
I want it to sound like where we're hanging out
and you're you're getting a classic gentleman from the UK
and you're getting, you know, a very hyperactive, you know,
talkative person from Long Island. Occasionally I apologize if I interrupt,
but sometimes I think that's how conversations go. It's natural.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
It's not because that's how it goes in Long Island.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
It's Long Islands.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Well, now I'm a part of Queens I'm a part
of Forest Hills. I'm where I'm out the Ramones. That's
that's where I'm from now. Uh, there's so many things
in your book to talk about, and I love it
because it's not people need to understand obviously, like they
listen to this podcast that we love guns and Roses.
You're doing other podcasts, uh that don't deal in GNR.
(22:53):
But one of the things I wanted to talk about
was was Jack Russell. Obviously you spend a lot of
time talking about writing about your time with Great White
and your feelings on just everything. And I appreciate you
being so open about it because did you try because
I know this book was a challenge for you. Was
(23:14):
there any sort of like I wish Jack read this,
was around to see this, because I know it was
a good relationship at times, but it was also a
bad relationship at times. Do you wish he was here
to read it?
Speaker 1 (23:27):
No, he doesn't have to read it, and I don't
have to read his book because for the last few
years his life, we talked regularly on the phone, and
I would not write in a book what I would
say to Jack. I mean, there was no filter between
the pair of us. No filter at all, and that
(23:52):
was one of the reasons why we'd love to each
with us and why our friendship survived everything, including him
having an affair with my first wife for thirteen years,
that we could actually laugh about that at the end
of his life because of what mattered was our friendship
and our connection and what we did together and why
(24:15):
we did it together. And that's what mattered to both
of us. I spent an awful lot of time helping
the person who wrote his book. There's nothing in my
book that I would feel, oh gosh, could I read this?
Suggest No, if Jack read my book, he would have
(24:39):
done this dude stuff you could have said and written,
Thank god, I mean, dude, you let me off the.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Hook, I guess because I found it.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
The thing about it, Here's the thing about writing is
if you have the presumption, even to the point of arrogance,
that you should sit down and form a manuscript and
that it is going to be of any interest or
(25:14):
significance to anyone else. If you're going to do that,
you're obliged, and you're obliged to one thing above all else,
and that is being truthful and honest.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yes, you that's the Getty and live in for sure.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Now, Mick wall is about the only person who writes
a rock and roll book that I can read and
mix send me a message. He's going, welcome to the
authors Club.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
That's nice of him.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Well, obviously, I go.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Back and I go, I know you do. Sorry, you
know that I'm a little chapter what what what the.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Fuck are you talking about, Mick. You are the IMPEX
of this activity. You are the best at doing it,
and I am merely a temporary enthusiastic amateur. And that's it.
He comes back and he says, Ah, you don't get
off that easy. Welcome to the Author's Club. And it's
(26:19):
a curse. And I thought about it for a moment,
and moment, okay, I got it. The curse is that
you're obliged the integrity of honesty, and not everybody wants
to hear it.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
So that's the curse. And that's where I go, Okay,
I'm a member of the Author's Club now. But you've.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
I think a little different, and maybe gin R fans
will respond. And I know your relationship with Nick goes
back for a while, goes back a long ways. It's
different if you're being honest, then if you're making stuff up,
I don't know if how you feel, but you know,
I'm sure you've talked about Axel call him Mick Wall
out and uh and getting the Ring and our recent
(27:05):
interaction where he complained to you about how I said, uh,
Axel would have fought back Vince Neil, like or is
he what asked? Well, Axel would have fought back Vince Neil.
And then Mick was calling me some sort of a
fanboy because I said Axel probably would have beat the
shit out of Vince. He's like, no, no, he wouldn't have.
And I'm like, there are quotes of Alan calling Vince
(27:26):
a powder puff like and then he just whatever blocks
me on Twitter. But that's that's whatever. I digress. It's
not about Mick Wall It's about you. The reason why
you are. You were always an author. Now it's official.
It's the way you talk, it's the way you speak,
it's it's you the user. You have a natural gift
and I'm so glad that you were able to put
(27:47):
it out there.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
That's very kind and very generous. I have been asked
a question by those who review books, how did you
develop your voice? Which obviously to a certain frame of
mind that I sometimes have is a ludicrous question by
talking right, how.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
How else?
Speaker 1 (28:13):
But you take the step with them and you go, Okay,
I understand what you're getting at, and let me explain
to you that I think that writing songs really helped
me writing pages, because there is nothing more confined than
a song into which you're trying to invest some intelligence,
(28:38):
some emotion, and maybe even a little bit of spirit
IQ ask you and equ and you're trying to invest
that into a form of which there are only seven criteria.
I love you, I hate you, I feel good, I
feel bad, World's great, world's fucked up, and finally the question,
(29:00):
which is sort of pink Freud. Were really good at
writing the question. And you're fundamentally working in an extremely
small and tyight medium when you're writing a song. And
you know, one of my favorite teases of people is
to say a song with no content is merely sonic wallpaper. Okay,
(29:25):
you have to have content for it to be connective
and valid in terms of a worthwhile expression. So you've
got this tiny little box, and the whole thing about
getting into that box and getting into it well is
edit edit, edit, edit, edit, you're editing down all the time.
(29:48):
You're editing your language, you're editing your choice of songs.
You become as a songwriter, you become conscious of rhythm
of word and no value of word. That helped me
when I was writing this, because in my head, I'm
not just saying words, I'm hearing them as a songwriter,
(30:09):
there's a rhythm, there's a note value. So part of
what I was trying to stay close to was be
close to the composer within you. Try and write in
a way that it's musical, because it's a book about musicians.
Make it musical if you can. So that was the thinking.
(30:30):
Whether I did it or not, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Everything you're describing is something that you know in an
alternate dimension. If I were to become an author, is
how I would want to become an author. We spoke
about my you know attempt last episode interview with you,
but that's how I respect that you wanted to kind
of sing the language, especially if you don't have a
(30:54):
naturally sing songing language like Italian or something like that.
If it's English, you wanted to saying this is a
good jumping off point because you say this is a
good What I feel is a good comment. You said
never read the comments. I read the comment, but it's
a good of just how capulates us in you, I think,
and why it translates to a book. This is from
(31:16):
a Vicky Overbee on Twitter. I will always call it
twitter did she just finished. This was right after she
finished episode five hundred and changed her opinion on you
just thought you were angry. You know, somebody couldn't get
over getting fired by Axel. But however, now I'm just like,
this guy is awesome. He's funny, and he's not afraid
to speak the truth. So thank you Brando. So the
(31:39):
points I want to jump off is that you're funny
and not in you speak the truth. And thing that's
what also came across in this book was the amount
of times that I laughed. I don't want that to
be lost. So that's that was kind of to read that,
to be like that.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
That was important to me too. And you know, I'm
not a comedian, and I am very impressed by funny
people who can construct presentations of comedy and that takes
a certain self confidence and very dexterous humor. But as
(32:17):
much as I dare I kept trying to remind myself
make sure people laugh when they read this too. There's
got to be stuff in here that is funny, because
I don't want it to come off as a miserable diatribe.
I wanted to be entertaining.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
And there was one time I was out with old
Don Dork and we were out for a night boys together,
and for some reason he said, let's go to the
comedy club on Sunset. Never been in there before in
my life. Okay, Don, let's go. And we go in
(32:56):
there and we're sitting down and there are probably eight
nine people in there tops pardon me, tops, and out
comes Robin Williams, unannounced, unscheduled, just wants to test some
stuff out. And I'm sitting there, going, I can't believe this.
(33:19):
We're getting a Robin Williams, a mini little Robin Williams act.
And I'm looking in the corner of my eyes and
I'm counting eight of us in here. Wow, what a moment.
And he did his bit, and I did something that
was for me out of character. He turned around to leave,
(33:39):
and as he turned around to leave, I called out,
mister Williams, do you translate into English and he throws
like this literally, like this, like this, Fen not moving,
came back to the microphone and then there was another
(34:00):
twenty minutes of English jokes. It was fucking brilliant. But
you know, that's he I think is actually the most
extraordinary talent as a humorous that I know. But to
get back to the book, I was, in my own
(34:22):
way trying to make sure that people laughed as well,
you know, And that's a lovely quote you read, because
you know, as I point out, at the end of
the day, there's a lot that went on that wasn't good,
a lot of things that were done that were malicious
in my direction. I have very right to carry an anger,
(34:44):
but I won't because at this point of my days
and life, and you tend to get a little bit
reflective when you're not twenty seven anymore. I look at
it and go, fuck me, what a fucking amazing ride
I've had, What a fucking incredible life I've led, And
(35:08):
I'm glad where I am today. There's a part of
me that goes, you know, if we've got richer, I
might have ended up drinking myself to death years ago
and being a drunken asshole instead of somebody who's pleased
to have a sobriety and I'm pleased to looking back
(35:32):
and going, yeah, we did some things that were worthwhile. Yeah,
there are a lot of negatives. Who does not have
a life that does not have rainfall into it. And
the end of the day, what I finally come down to,
Brando is it's a fucking privilege because when I step
out of here today and I go and have my
breakfast and some fucking moron an eighteen wheeler doesn't see
(35:55):
me step off the curve and squishes me across his
truck while I'm I'm there in the curb. I'll go.
You know, I didn't have to wonder what would what
would it be like to do this or to do that,
or to see that, or to go there or to
have this happen.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yeah, as Macaba as that might be, I understand, Uh,
I kind of to talk about myself. I feel that
a way about having a son. I'm like, all right, well,
if I die tomorrow, at least I did something. I
feel that so ill.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
At the end of the day. I mean, I think
pretty much on a global scale, as a species, we
fuck up on two things constantly, just two two major
ones for me, if we if we altered these two circumstances,
(36:55):
I think we would have a much much better world.
One it's a treat and women.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Agreed.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
And two it's how we raise our kids agreed. If
we did those two things better, what a great world
we would have? You know. In nove November the eleventh, nineteen,
nineteen nineteen eighteen, it's the end of the war to
end all wars. Imagine if we had never manufactured another weapon,
(37:32):
another bullet, another bomb, another means of destruction from that
year nineteen eighteen. Can you imagine how wonderful this planet
would be at the moment that all the money that
has been spent on fighting and destruction was actually put
(37:54):
into infrastructure and education and health and caring about people.
And that's where Axel nailed it on Civil War. And
I was so thrilled with his writing of Civil War.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Way to turn it around. I love that. See, that's
why you're a natural writer. You brought everything around. Uh
you are? You are so right about everything, and you
know what this is. It makes me think of a
story I don't think I brought up, UH brought up
last time and considering the source, you will probably say
it's bullshit.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
I was once told by by Doug that early on
that you had tried to give Axel lyrics on a bus.
He threw the lyrics out of the window because you know,
you come from Great White, you were Great White, and
he's like, you're not my Bernie Toppin. And that was
like kind of the one of the first cracks. I mean,
(38:53):
somebody who's still writing lyrics to you know, albeit in
chapter form to this day, who has written and you
have written hits and music. Is that something you've tried
to do at the beginning of gn R or is
that a completely fabricated story.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
It's an abuse story, which is typical of Douglas. And
if you bring him up.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
The only time, only time, only time, I promise.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
You bring him up on time, it's an abuse story.
On and I'll give a caveat to this too is
(39:39):
And on the first level, I was not going to
compromise my relationship with Great White, and my relationship with
Great White at that point had become fundamentally creative, okay.
And I was concentrating on Jack's persona. I was concentrating
(40:00):
on the development of the band. I was concentrating on
moving on from being a wanna be Judas van Haydn,
all right, And I knew where I wanted to take them,
and I knew where we could go, and I knew
it would work because I'd been around them for five years,
all right. So you're around seventy five years, you going, yeah,
(40:22):
I think I've got it now. So that's one I
was not going to compromise my relationship with Greyway. Secondly,
Axel was not Jack. Jack was not Axel. Axel didn't
need anybody to write for him. When I got my
(40:46):
demo tape and listen to the songs on there, I
called zouits out And one of the weakest performances on
the tape was to me one of the most significant songs.
And I made a point of telling suit out, keep
(41:11):
an eye out for this song. We've got to watch
for this song. This song is an important song. It's
a good song, it's an important song. It's not the
best on the tape, but it's going to be an
important song if we get it.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
I want to guess what do I want to guess?
Sweitch Out of Mine, Welcome to the Jungle.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
No no, Welcome to the Joungle. Okay, sweet Child of
Mine is just another fucking love story. I mean, you
know me well enough that there were songs that I
really attune to are the question songs, Civil War Jungle?
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Okay, I was something else to bring up because I
was I'm really trying because the comments got to the
last time, just to let you breathe it out, breathe
it out. I'm like, oh, should I ask what song?
Or is it gonna tell me? So welcome to the Jungle.
That's this is me sitting back.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
So so anyways, where were we? What the fuck were
we talking about? Lyrics and buses? Last show that we
did on the cover with the Colt with the New
Orleans we had a long ride home from New Orleans
(42:28):
to LA in the bus. That's that's a twenty four
hour drive where Anyway. I have a memory of west
star Keen being on the bus in a night shirt
(42:50):
and a pair of cowber boots and being really fucking
obnoxious and annoying and someone that I was really tempted
to push out of the bus in textas and let
him find his own fucking way home because he really
was obnoxious. I was never a big fan or west
(43:11):
ar Key, and I remember him making some sarcastic remarks
about great whites rop me, okay, and I'm thinking for myself, yeah, dude,
but it's on the radio and it's a good song,
and it's well constructed and it's got a great arrangement
(43:33):
to it. And I seem to remember that he challenged me, like,
but you couldn't write a real lyric. So I wrote
something down for him and that.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Was it, okay, and that was what was presented.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Now, okay, yes, Now did I ever sit with Axel
and say your lyrics suck, let me roll up my sleeves,
you're out of your ever loving fucking mind. I didn't
have to do that because his lyrics didn't suck, and
he was a good writer. And if he wasn't a
good writer, I had fucking Easy, who I thought was
(44:09):
brilliant because he had street vernacular down to a point
that I was like, fuck, I wish I could write,
I can. I love the way Eas he wrote. He
had that absolutely incontrovertible street vernacular. No, I didn't try,
and I pinch myself that is another manufacturer by gold
(44:32):
Swine trying to justify his treachery.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Let's move on something else. I'd be remiss if I
didn't bring up and you could say, if you want
to leave it for the book as a mystery to
go back there the Great White One of the parts
that made me laugh was where he hit his drugs
Jack Russell. I was kind of like, do you want
to leave that as like a hidden thing the book? Okay,
(45:00):
it's just not.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
One of it's one of the good laughs in the book.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Yeah, that's why I didn't expect it as we were
talking about Jack Russell. Now, unfortunately, that's all I can
think about. So that's what I'll let people read and
and and and find that out. Also, I'd be remiss
if you know, you knowing the natural, whether it's you're
happy that you were able to easily dissect what a
(45:24):
rock and roll book is. You know, you have this party,
you have this act. Would you ever want to write
something fiction now that this is out? Would you want
to write a you know?
Speaker 1 (45:35):
The honest truth is that I didn't want to write
this book.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
I know, so I didn't know if it was something
different it was.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
It was a chure when when I first attempted it
and I did it with the lack of imagination that
I would approach I approach it with, which was, well,
you're going to write rock and roll book, you write,
you know, this is how you do it. And I
(46:01):
found it tedious. I found it boring. I found it depressing,
and I found it a chore. And I didn't enjoy it.
And I did actually send it to someone hoping that
i'd get a negative from them, because if I got
a negative from them, I could shelve it and blame them,
(46:24):
which was what I was hoping for. And instead I
got this email back saying books, great, finish it, so
I had to shelve it. It was not something that
I felt compelled to do. It was not something that
I went if you want to look good in history,
(46:49):
you have to write it, you know. It was nothing
like that. The amount of times I got asked, when
are you going to write the book? It was a chore.
It was something on my back. So to get it
done and finished and in a way that I thought, yeah,
this might work, this is okay, that's sufficient. If I
(47:12):
remember correctly, you were asking are we going to do
this as fiction?
Speaker 2 (47:15):
At some point yeah, Well, because by the way it
was Slash by the way, who encouraged you right the way,
who said like you wanted to know because I think
you said that last time, because the point being your
way with words, and even in your email, it just
would be was it hard in a task because it
was your life or because it was writing because you
(47:35):
have such a natural ability to write, and maybe that
you've you know, popped your cherry and just the author now.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
That I've never considered myself to be an author, budding
author or a potential or author. And one of the
common questions is why now. Well, part of why now
is before my brain stops functioning completely. And second, it's
also fucking old that I can be objective about it.
(48:04):
I mean, if you'd come in to me thirty years
ago and said, nil, the stuff that you're recording today
is going to be on the radio thirty years from now,
I'd have looked at you and I said, I don't
know what you're sniffing or smoking, but share it, because
if it makes me that optimistic about life that I want,
I want some of it too. I mean, there was
no way back then that we thought that the Rolling
(48:28):
Stones would still be touring in their eighties had you
said that in nineteen eighty eight, I'd have gone, you're
fucking crazy, right. I know.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
I still because I'm crazy. I watch old Simpson episodes
and there was one of an old Rolling Stones joke
in there, and there's like an old twenty year old
episode that they're talking about them being old twenty years ago,
and you talk about them a lot in the book too.
I was actually a little surprised that you were a
(49:01):
little harsh. I thought, I was surprised. I thought you
on the Stones, weren't you in the book.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
No, I just gave you my opinion, which I think
is valid. And bear in mind that they had a
tremendous impact on my consciousness in the late sixties early seventies,
and for me, the apex and brilliance of that band
was between sixty nine and seventy three, and seventy three
(49:29):
was the live apex of that band. And all the
cognate centi who know everything say Exiles on Mainstream is
their brilliant work, and I go, well, it might have
been if they had recorded it in muscle shoals, but
it's not. Their apex is beggars Banquet, Let it bleed
(49:51):
and sticky fingers. So those three records are just genius together.
So you know this is schizophrenia because that's my Rolling Stones. Yeah,
the people who come along in nineteen eighty eight who
seemed to be going through the motions for money, that's
(50:14):
not my rolling Stones. My Rolling Stones were on fire,
were completely uncontainable, were beautifully unpredictable, and they were dead
on and they weren't perceived to being driven by materialism.
(50:41):
It was a spirit within them that were so engaging.
Once you get to nineteen eighty eight, nineteen ninety two
and nineteen ninety six, and you know, they wheel it
out and everybody buys a ticket and Jagger goes and
counts off his millions in his banking counts offshore. You
(51:05):
are the people we were up against in the sixties.
Get me.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
This sounds very familiar about another band that we often
talk about a little bit kind of situation mirrors. Do
you do you hope Izzy reads the book? Do you
hope he hear you hear back from him? Because you
can really censor what you always can in every interview
when you talk about Isy and how important he was
and how hurt you were at certain times when your
(51:34):
relationship deteriorated. Is he someone that you expect to hear
from or where's Izzy? Is that going to be just
I'm not sure what you what if you do expect
to hear from him or want it that you care.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
I have someone who I can check in with occasion
and ask the question that is the only question that
really concerns me about him, And the question is how's
I is he? How's his health? Is he okay? And
if I get back, Oh, he's fine, I go good.
Because I didn't like a little a recent photograph I
saw him. That scared me, you know, But that's it.
(52:13):
I just hope he's well. I hope he's well. I
don't think he's ever for a coupboard from GNR.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
It's pretty amazing because I was going to ask before.
And you're when you're really highlighting his songwriting and his
lyrics and when you guys got together for the Juju Hounds,
it just seems like it seems like another like a
match made in heaven. You're taking away I guess the
unpredictability of Axel and you're focusing with Izzy, and uh,
(52:44):
is that why he never really stuck with the band?
And he's put all these albums and it's just like,
unless you're a hardcore fan, you're not even aware of it.
He seems to have disappeared.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
So he's in a position where he can he can
lead his life as he wishes to and you know,
deal with being easy too. But there's a curiosity there
(53:18):
because I think there was a tiny part of it
he that really did want to see if he could
be really successful. But when he was really successful, it
didn't work for him, and he wasn't I wasn't happy
with it, you know, not a dress rehears, so we
all go around. Once he can live off his ororties.
(53:38):
He can have a two of us and go driving
into the desert when he wants to. Dude, well done,
that's your life and you're happy and you got your
dog Traider with you. Good.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
I found that interesting because I spoke to Bernard Balor.
I don't know if that's sort of the picture you're
referring to, if that was, or if that was just
a off handed comment. That is, he was at a
Stone show, I believe last year, and him and Bernard
Follower took a picture together. Bernard posted it. I interviewed
Bernard about it, and he's like, yeah, what is he?
What you up to? I'm just writing writing music, you know,
(54:14):
And it's just like, where is it? Is he the
kind of guy that would just write music for himself,
never to see the light of day again. I'm I'm
asking you to assume, because it's not like you talked
to him like that. But I just found that so peculiar.
Interesting is that he's writing music, but and also all
this stuff has been it seems to be taken down
off like Spotify, a lot of his stuff has been
(54:35):
taken off streaming. So it's just very peculiar. Why this is,
I don't know. I don't know if you have you
heard that before. You can't get any of his stuff
streaming anymore. I don't know if that's that may have
changed since I posted this episode, but as of now,
all the solo albums are you can't stream him.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
Well maybe maybe maybe acc decide do you wanted to
buy all of his songs? I don't. I mean, he
bought all his friends photographs. Robert John, he bought all
his photographs, but you know, who knows.
Speaker 2 (55:15):
I guess I just thought that was an interesting thing
because that's something else that sticks with me with the
bugs when you talk about your relationship with him.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
And the real simple thing is I've got some really
good memories of my time to this, and I value
those memories and that's good enough. You know, yeah, that's
really good enough. I have good memories with anonymous people.
(55:44):
That's good enough too. So you know that was then,
it's not now. The weird thing is is that you
and I are here on a Thursday afternoon in the
year two thousand and twenty five talking about that happened
almost half fucking century ago. That's the weird thing.
Speaker 2 (56:05):
Weird sad? Is it sad? People people talk about the
less important things. I guess I know it's it's strange,
but I mean it's it's the beauty of music. It's
why people want to buy your or are buying your book.
It's a it's a time capital for people who either
want to relive it or like me, who didn't live it.
Speaker 1 (56:27):
Exactly. It's not sad in that it's quite It quite
encourages your sense of humanity and connectivity with other people
that people are amused or are interested in what you
participated in all that time ago, but all that time ago.
(56:54):
There were times I used to walk into a bookstore
and I used to look at the books, bringing everything
around in a circle. Here. I used to look at
all the books, and I would try and remind myself
that what was being played on the radio and have
been manufactured by the contemporary record companies might be taking
(57:21):
up space and time. But if you look at the
books in a bookstore, there are books that have been
here for and they've had lives fifty one hundred years,
three hundred years. They've had irrelevance to many generations. And
not that I expected that out of rock and roll music,
(57:42):
but it reminded me why do people come and buy
old books? Why do I use Shakespeare to open my book?
Because if you're get to write, you have to acknowledge.
The first thing about Shakespeare is that he nailed human
(58:05):
psychology so well and so consistently and better than anybody since.
And I use Macbeth because there's the opportunity for self deprecation.
I'm just a fucking idiot carrying some stupid stories, as
(58:27):
Macbeth put it on. And it's all about idiots and misfits,
which is rock and rolls. And there's a little hint
in there it comes from Macbeth. So don't be surprised
if some witches turn up, or some crazy wives, or
there are some betrayals. You might find that in there too.
(58:50):
But the bottom line is to remember what NIV said.
NIV said that rock and roll is God's occupation for
the unemployable. At the start and the end of it,
all of us were unemployable and looking to remain unemployed
and not be accountants, not be a working stiff, not
(59:11):
have to do the hard graft that everybody has to do.
We wanted to be cheeky and get away with playing
all our lives. And if we have to write a
little book that says thank you for letting us play,
then maybe that's part of the book too, just saying
(59:32):
we played.
Speaker 2 (59:34):
You certainly you play. You're taught again. I learned a lot.
I laughed. It really is fun to read, and I
kind of wish I didn't read it so quickly because
I was just I kind of wish I enjoyed it
a little bit more so over time. But I guess
I could read it again. That's the beauty of a book.
(59:57):
Because congratulations, I'm glad I asked about because the ending
of just I wanted to know more about Alan. I
love that about you because it's the same thing I
say about myself. Who cares about me? Even though I
talk about myself, it's to connect with the guest, it's
you do the same thing. That's why we connect. You're like,
who cares about me? But you talk about yourself because
(01:00:17):
that's how you connect. So to learn about you, know,
your your family that have just chapters on doing acid?
Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
Is it something I can only experience the reading. I've
never tried acid. I'm not going to try anytime soon,
so I appreciate the inside of what it's like to do.
Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
Uh, to do too old? Let me tell you too
old for it? Now?
Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
You're too old and too fathered for that.
Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Now.
Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
I wouldn't do that.
Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
Yeah, exactly, too old for it. Now. It's a young
spirits occupation and adventure.
Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
And to hear yeah, people again, it's not all guns
and roses, but to hear your adventures of just going
to different countries and just being functional. Sometime, if you
could be functional and acid, Alan Niven was functional. Here's
some of the things that you accomplished. It was pretty cool.
And to learn I've had endless conversations with you on
and off air to learn a lot about you. Was
(01:01:12):
was pretty cool and I'm glad that it's documented for
the rest of history, you know, sound and fury and.
Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
Bottom line, it's there to entertain and if if it
stimulates a little bit of of thought that maybe changes
your perspective just slightly to some degree on something, then
it's worked. Then it's that. That's what you can ask for.
The most important thing is is that it's entertaining.
Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
Oh I was. That's what I look for. It's entertaining,
and it's the ability of laugh because that's the same
thing with my interviews, whether it's a ten in interview
or if it's an hour or whatever. I got to
make you laugh. It's it's just how I operate, uh,
And the connect you know, how do I How does
the quote common man connect with the rock star who
(01:02:04):
doesn't live that life? So that's why you know, I'll
look at.
Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
Us the rock star is a fucking common man when
he takes his pants off and puts his trousers.
Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
One.
Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
That's the point I'm in the book I'm trying to
make yes, is that we are all common men and
perhaps we might have got ourselves into some extraordinary circumstance,
but we all make the bathroom smell the same.
Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
That's a nice way to put it. Uncommon man and
common man in uncommon situations. With going number two, I
love it and just thank you so much. People listen, get.
Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
Thanks to mine. You're the host. This is your hospitality.
I really appreciate you giving me some space and time
and letting me ramble on about the book. Hopefully two
people go out there and buy it.
Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
Well. I appreciate your stories in the time that you've
given me, not just today but over the years. And
you know, after the color came back to my face
when I was wrote carsick, when we actually met up
and I was eating some French fries and ginger ale
and you know, so, I mean, it's We've had some
great conversations and I really appreciative of whether I'm whether
(01:03:30):
the record button is hit or not. I still want
to thank you for your time and just be on
not just for Alan's book. He's going to be doing
more interviews. And this guy's an endless Yeah. I know
his book is done, but his jukebox is endless. So
more stories. Go listen to more interviews that Alan does
with other podcasts.
Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
If you believe you me, I am very aware of
the fact that there's a little bit of a bump
at the moment because of promoting a book. Believe you know.
Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
Once you that, how I am going to make sure
that I'm disappearing, not around and annoying people anymore.
Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
Enjoy allen while you can.
Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
All right listen to you every one Forday, I'm going
to go and get breakfast.
Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
You got it. So that does it for this episode
of Appetite for the Stortion. When will we see the
next one? In the words of Axl Rose concerning Chinese democracy,
I don't know as soon as the word, but you'll
see it.
Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
Thanks to the lame ass security. I'm going home.
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com