June 18, 2025 • 44 mins
Author and filmmaker Steven Blush joins. We discuss his books and movies; "American Hardcore," "American Hair Metal," the upcoming "When Rock Met Hip-Hop," and of course, how Guns N' Roses connects to it all.
More info:
https://www.instagram.com/thestevenblush
https://stevenblush.com/
WEBSITE: www.afdpod.com
More info:
https://www.instagram.com/thestevenblush
https://stevenblush.com/
WEBSITE: www.afdpod.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You know. This is Appetite for Distortion.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to the podcast Appetite four Distortion, Episode number five
hundred and twelve. My name is Brando. Welcome to the podcast,
mister Stephen Blush. How are you, sir?
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Oh, I'm doing great. That's five hundred and twelve episodes. Yeah,
I said, yeah, wow, that's incredible. That's really incredible. Respect
to you for sure.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Well that means a lot coming from you, with the
amount of books that you've written and in documentaries that
you've produced, and how long you've been around the scenes.
So yeah, five five point twelve is giving me a
chance to interview people like you. You're well, you're from Jersey.
But where are you right now? In respect, I live
(01:12):
in Manhattan, Okay, okay, I'm in Queen's right now. I'm
in Queen's Forest Hills. And I was telling you off
the air and the true spirit of New York City
and things just not being finished and things falling apart.
After I had, you know, confirmed this interview again, my
bathroom and my apartment, the ceiling started leaking. So there's
(01:37):
the supers are in and out, so maybe we'll hear
some some fun background noise, but I think we'll be okay.
I guess figured it okay, we could deal with it. Yeah, Well,
I like to give my listeners a heads up because
sometimes my son at two year old's running around, but
now he's out with my wife at dance class. So
enough about me. I wanted to learn about you for
those who are unfamiliar with your work and your publications,
(02:02):
do you mind just kind of telling us a little
bit about yourself, Stephen? You said, also off the air,
since you became an author, who you're Stephen? So tell
us about.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Step My first book came out as Steven, so I've
it's very interesting that people who knew me before that
refer to me as Steve. But Stephen's professional names, so
we could work with that.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Tell us about Steve then, how he got to Stephen?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Well, let me see. Well, if you want my life
story a little bit, I was a kid who was
growing up in New Jersey, and I was always into
punk rock from like the earliest times. I was on
a high school exchange program to England, so I saw
the clash before they came to America, you know, things
(02:50):
like that. So I was really kind of ahead of
the curve at at all moments. So I went to
college in Washington, d C. And there was this new
form of punk rock that was happening that really spoke
to me, which was known as hardcore. The original punk
was was really great, but it was a lot of
artists and like the British were talking about being on
(03:13):
the Dole or talking about Maggie Thatcher and the Queen
and like just stuff that didn't didn't I didn't really
relate to. But here came this new form that was
a suburban form of punk, and in DC it was
bands like the Bad Brains and Minor Threat. And I
(03:34):
was never a musician, so I found my place within
the scene as the kid promoter. So I promoted all
these bands. I promoted Black Flag and Dead Kennedy's and
Circle Jerks and Suicidal and you know, half these bands
crashed on my couch. So it was a very really
influential on my life as it went forward.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
And do you still have that couch?
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Definitely not. The end game was that I went to college,
probably to be a lawyer at the George Washington University,
and I was never going to be a lawyer after that,
and I actually failed. I got an f in English
when I was in my junior year of high school,
(04:20):
and the teacher just I would love to see that
teacher when I would love to run into him. But
so I didn't really think I was much of a writer.
And then but I wrote for the alternative newspaper at
my college and I got really good feedback. So this
was kind of happening. And I moved to New York
(04:42):
and I started writing for some magazines doing interviews. My
first ever interview was Harley Flanagan from the Chromags, which
fit in with my past in Washington, d C. And
I became a writer for a lot of fashion magazines
and rock magazine like Interview and Paper and Details and
(05:06):
of course Spin Magazine and uh, you know the rock
magazines Rip Magazine. So I really found my place as
a writer. I started my own magazine called Seconds Magazine,
which we did fifty issues of. It was kind of underground,
never really made the leap, but I knew everybody in
(05:30):
the music scene. I mean, you see some gold records
behind me with Sound Guard, Faith No More, and those
were the bands I was kind of help helping to
break at the time. Tool you know this typeo negative
you know, those were the kind of bands that I
was helping to break at the time. You know, we
(05:50):
were a so called Taste Maker magazine, and my writing
for the other magazines kind of crossed over into that.
Andah forward to the late nineties. I was seeing all
these history of rock and roll documentaries on the air,
and they would do things like it would go talk
(06:11):
about the clash and the band X maybe, and then
it would go straight to Nirvana, like this whole hardcore
thing never happened, And it kind of inspired me to
write my own book. I had promoted shows without ever
promoting a show, before I started a magazine, before ever
(06:33):
having any experience in publishing. I became a writer without
a journalism degree. So I wrote a book without any experience,
and that was the original American hardcore and that took
off out of the box. And the action with that
(06:54):
was I felt like that there was you know, it
was before the internet was really big, so you know,
and it wasn't like you called information and got the
number from Joey Shithead from DA It didn't really work
like that. It was just really the connections I had
with everyone from my days in college, and I compared
(07:19):
to like the Army where you're kind of you've been
through it all with these people and you could pick
up like twenty years later and like, you know, mister
beat writing, you know, miss abeat exactly. So I wrote
the book. Then I made the film with Paul Rachman,
(07:42):
who was at the time doing really cool videos like
Temple of the Dog, Hunger Strike and Panterra Cemetery Gates
and Bad Brain's Eye against Eye, and you know, so
we were a good and we made the film American
Hardcore and it went to sun Dance, and you know,
(08:05):
that was just such a trip. You know, we really
were like on you know, in the mainstream all of
a sudden. And that inspired me to write a second
edition of the book, which is the one that most
people have. And that was basically because I had spoken
to a lot of people because it was before the
(08:27):
Internet and I was speaking to a lot of people
for their information. I felt a lot of people were
just they didn't remember things quite right, you know, and
I had to go to more. Once I was able
to do my research and I had already done the film,
I really had this you know, new like real kind
(08:50):
of fire and experience, and that's led to that, and
I've written eight books since, and recently I just did
a trilogy When Rock Met Disco, When Rock Met Reggae,
and the new one coming out in November, which I'm promoting,
is when Rock Met hip Hop. And I'm not really
(09:12):
talking about disco or reggae or hip hop. I'm talking
about how it crossed with rock and roll, so disco
I'm talking about when Kissed did I Was Made for
Loving You? Or The Rolling Stones did Miss You. You know,
here's where like really great musicians doing doing dance music, right.
(09:33):
You know, they took a lot of shit for it,
but I don't think you could listen to those records
now and have you know, think that there's anything really
wrong with it.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
And I agree it's funny. Gene of course shits on
that song. Yeah, And that was the one he did
with that Desmond Child, right and right exactly.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah, that was their beginning with the Desmond Child whole thing.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Because he Desmond has been on the podcast and he
just talks about Gene. He's like, yeah, I made him
all that money, and like Geene loves song. He's just
trying to like distance himself because he's too cool for that. Yeah,
it is funny and then kind of I just can't
get past of just that teacher. I really do hope
you meet that teacher because even though you're not a
musician just like me and I'm in to weigh a
(10:15):
promoter of doing radio whatever, it's hardcore. What you've done.
It is hard, you know, to create this life for
yourself and to not in the traditional way. Yeah, because
I got a journalism degree, but so I maybe I
went to more traditional route. But I admire you said,
you admire the amount of episodes I've done of this.
(10:37):
I admire what you've done because it's you probably got
I get a lot of nose. I don't take nos. Well,
you probably got even more nose if you're not even
doing it the proper way, like no, you can't do this,
you can't do that. And the fact that you're you know,
you're here with celebrating so it's not lost. The fifteenth
anniversary of your award winning American Hardcore Film. And then
(10:58):
it's the second edition we have talked about this yet
American hair Metal, that book and as you mentioned, the
trilogy When rock met hip Hop and it's all meets
here on Appetite for distortion and why I was excited
to talk to you today because you mentioned a few bands.
If you can't tell, Guns n' Roses is my themes.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Yeah, but you I love the name of your podcast.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
By the way, thank you Appetite for Distortion. You know
who just said the same thing. Who is probably going
to be a future guest. I'm just looking at the
make sure I actually believe it, because I never believe
when people agree to be on the podcast. Carrie Casem
Casey's daughter said she's like, I love the name of
your podcast. I'm like, come on, that's fine, but you
(11:41):
talk about Here's one thing that was really interesting today.
As we're recording this, you said, your first interview was
with Harley from My main job for radio for with
Premiere is to do radio tours like kind of what
you're doing, but just more sainc with different radio stations.
Harley is doing a radio tour today with us for
(12:03):
his documentary.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Well, that's great. I get to see the documentary.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Wired for Chaos. That's just very weird universe kind of
you know, promoting hardcore you know today on this day,
But you mentioned like Bad Brains Slash is a major
fan of bad Brains. He's worn shirts on stage Minor Threat,
black Flag. Henry Rollins has been on the show. He
told us that he did like a. He was like
(12:29):
a roadie once for G and R at some U
C l LA show. So I would just love to
know more about like these bands, what makes minor threats
such a and bad brains? Like still after all these years,
like so impactful on like musicians that are you know,
big musicians again like Slash, like Duff. They often cite
(12:51):
these bands, these hardcore bands, what makes them so powerful
today all these years later when the when the media
tried to ignore them, like you said, like it didn't happen.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, well that's what it was. Was there was never
like a the record industry kind of ignored this music.
And the music, first of all, was so radical. It
was it was so like not part of the mainstream,
but so not part of the music industry. It wasn't
like there was a signing frenzy of signing bands to
(13:23):
be like the next agnostic front, right, you know. So
it stayed true to itself and it stayed underground. And
that's the power of hardcore. You know, the power of
hardcore is that everybody discovers it in their own terms,
in their own place. The pioneers you're talking about, I think,
(13:46):
for any music, for any musical form, the pioneers are
the ones to stand out, right. So, you know, the
Bad Brains and Minor Threat in Washington, d C. For instance,
they were so intense. I mean there was such fury.
There was such what they lacked in musicality they brought
(14:12):
with angst and attitude and revolutionary furor. And you can't
duplicate that, you know. It was not like there were
no there was no barrage of videos by these bands.
I mean there was here and there. Like I mentioned
(14:32):
a Bad Brains video, there was a famous suicidal video,
you know for institutionalized Pepsi. Yeah, what a great song, right.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I didn't finally collaborate with Pepsi to get his own drink?
Didn't that finally just happen? Dreaming?
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Never heard that?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
All right? Maybe maybe it was a fever dream.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Okay, Yeah, it could very well be they slept on
that one. But I don't. No, no, man, these bands,
these bands still live today because because of how hard
they brought it. You know, they were bringing it so hard,
and it was when I hung out with Black Flag.
(15:17):
They talked about success in non economic terms, which was
a term, which was an idea that really blew my mind.
I never even considered that, the idea that you could
be successful and yet not really making any money at
what you're doing. Right So I think I followed that bad.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I always thinking the same thing. I'm like, I think
I'm doing that right now.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
But you know what I got to say when I was,
when I thought about what I wanted to do at
age eighteen to twenty five, is what I'm doing now
right so I'm still doing it, you know. And that's
that's the power of That's the power of music. It
(16:05):
will you can't be afraid of making mistakes. You can't
be afraid of following your dreams. It's kind of hard
to explain to some people, you know, I talked to Uh,
you know, my daughter goes to a public school, and
(16:27):
New York's very different than it used to be, and
you know, everybody works in finance and you know, things
like that, and they couldn't even consider not you know,
doing something conservative and safe and and ultimately you know,
all about the money. But a lot of people are jealous,
(16:49):
a lot of people I'm meet who are who I
consider successful, they're jealous of what I get to do
because at the end of the day, I'm excited to
wake up every morning, you know, I'm excited to start writing.
You know, I'm excited to talk to you. I mean,
this is this is the payback, you know, so I
(17:10):
I don't take it lightly. I think what this is
is this is hardcore. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, now that well said, and I feel a lot
of that as I'm kind of nodding and smiling because I, yeah,
kind of definitely cut from the the same cloth with that.
There was something you mentioned that I got to start
writing things down. There was something you mentioned that it's
always so funny. It'll come back to me, but to
make the because there's a lot to talk about, the
(17:41):
pivot to hair metal, right, Yeah, so obviously it's another
I guess there. Radio obviously paid attention to that. It's
a different, completely different. Oh I now I remember see
I stalled enough agnostic Front. You mentioned that my first
radio in college because doing that was the show was
(18:04):
called the Aggressive Edge, and that's kind of you mentioned
how you discovered hardcore in your own way. That's how
we discovered even Agnostic Fronts and all these hardcore bands.
Was doing this college radio show from eleven pm to
one am every Thursday. You know, when I really wasn't
a hardcore guy. I was more into the have you
(18:24):
metal guns and Roses? And obviously it got as hard
as Pantera for me. But I learned a lot, you know,
from doing that, more deeper into the you know, the
catalogs of some of the of like Suicidal, you know
where I just really do that one song, but going
deeper into it, so just a new appreciation of it.
Because now to make the pivot, I was like a
(18:45):
hair metal guy. I was like I was, it was weird.
I love grunge, hair metal and hardcore and all in
a blender of crap. So the kind of I wanted
to start this by asking you a question with the
guest I had on a few episodes ago. He had
his book out Guns Roses at forty Martin pop off.
Yeah recently, you know by the way he is, he is,
(19:05):
but he had a controversial opinion, which he's said for
many years that he considers Appetite for Destruction to be
an above average hair metal album. And he's like, it's
a good album, but he just didn't think it changed
the game. Is that when you talked about hair metal,
do you view as appetite or Guns of Roses as
hair metal?
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Absolutely? Absolutely, yeah. I mean they they came out of
the box that way, you know. You know, it's very
interesting now like Guns n' Roses or John bon Jovi,
they kind of go out of their way to say
that they weren't. But that was the that was the
industry at the time, you know, that was the scene
at the time. So I saw Guns n' Roses in Hollywood,
(19:49):
you know, right as that album came out, and you
can't tell me that crowd wasn't, you know, Sunset Strip
hair metal? You know. But I don't say that with
any disregard. I mean I would actually disagree that it's
a above average record. I would say it's a classic record,
you know. I would say that Guns n' Roses was
(20:12):
a classic band, is a classic band. And I think
the fact that all they've been through, with all the
weird stuff that Axel Rose was pulling in the late
nineties and early os and for them to come back
with Duff running the band and just kind of picking
(20:34):
up where they left off in the early nineties is
it's pretty incredible. I have a lot of respect for Duff,
a lot of respect for Guns n' Roses. I mean,
I think that's a great band. So so anyway, when
I was living in New after I was in Washington,
(20:55):
d C. I came to New York and I became
a DJ in a lot of the clubs. And that's
how I supported myself as a writer, basically, was that
I was, you know, you make good money as a
club DJ, and so I would work at a lot
(21:16):
of these clubs. There was a place called the Cat
Club in New York, and that was every Wednesday night
was the home of hair metal in New York. And
I worked at the Limelight, which was also like the
home of hair metal on Sunday nights. So I really
got into it. And you know, I was also discovered,
(21:40):
you know, as opposed to hardcore, which was kind of
like a sausage factory as you would refer to it.
As I started getting into meeting women, and I met
some of the coolest, most beautiful, like like rowdy, cool
women that I ever met in my life. In that
(22:03):
so I really have no regrets about it. I mean,
I saw all these bands, so I think. So I
wrote American Hardcore, which is in its second public edition,
like we talked about, and then I wrote American hair Metal,
(22:24):
which I think I disillusioned a lot of my friends.
What I what I did that originally, which is now
in its second edition as well. That came out about
six months ago and it's in its second edition, So
I would recommend people want to check that out. So
(22:45):
what was interesting about that book was I tried to
American Hardcore was really raw and you interview the people
and they'd speak from the heart, and you know, it
was all about that. So I tried the same formula
with the American hair Metal at first, and you know,
I remember talking to Don Dawkin or you know, Phil
(23:08):
Lewis from La Guns, and they were almost embarrassed by
what they did, you know, and they couldn't really talk
about it because they were worried about what the wife
and kids might think. And you know, it was kind
of lame, I thought. So I just went back to
all my old magazines which I had stashes of and paraphernalia,
(23:36):
merchant merchant stuff that I had from back in the day,
and I made a book out of that. And then
the quotes and interviews. The quotes and the lyrics were unbelievable.
But the interviews, you know, these guys were on like
real head trips. They thought they were all gonna, you know,
(23:59):
live forever and be stars forever. And you know, so
it's a little tongue in cheek. It is tongue in cheek.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Well that's what makes the because it was recently the
anniversary of the Decline of Western Civilization Part two, and
it's kind of the same thing of just like ow
that era, it's just like it's it's gonna last forever
and it doesn't. And yeah, you know, I was lucky
enough to also have Phil and Don on the on
the show, and yeah, you know some other people from
(24:29):
that era, and yeah they're family men now. But it
was what it was, you know. It's that you can't
talk about it in the same way though, So yeah,
it does make it more challenging to write a book,
like an honest book about it without going back to
the unfiltered stuff when they were just being themselves, without
without worrying. Yeah, it's a totally different world now. So
(24:53):
was it a fun Was that as fun to write thing?
Because I imagine the hard because I'd.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Go back and look at you know, those glossy magazines
with all this stuff and find you know, Rip and
Metal Edge and you know Circus and yeah, so that's
where I found all my research was just going back
(25:19):
and reading those magazines, which was a whot, you know,
and I found you know, it's it's kind of an
interesting piece because it's very sociological. You know. I have
fan letters where people would draw pictures of the bands
and like their favorite you know, here's here's my picture
(25:41):
of Nikky six, and here's what I have to say
about it, you know. So you know, that was a
really fun book to write. I think if a few
of those people are I would say it's fifty to
fifty on that crowd. You know. Some of them, I
feel they were made fun of, but I can't really
argue with them because I was having I was having
(26:06):
fun at their expense. I was. And I think that's
the reason the books in a second edition is because
it's sold really well and as opposed to selling too
but it sold to a very select crowd. I would
describe it as they sold it to secretaries.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Oh okay, all right, all right, fair well, I've always
looked at hair metal. I know people try to think
of it as a derogatory term, but to me, it
just explains that era and I love that music, and
even Martin Popop didn't mean in a derogatory way. It's
just like just like you and I really and that's
(26:43):
what we spoke about. And I've been doing this since
the beginning of the podcast as I wear a shirt
from my first Gen R concert in two thousand and two.
So I have a different perspective, completely different perspective of
what Guns and Roses was is you were there, so yeah,
you can't tell nobody could tell you that that crowd
(27:06):
wasn't you know, that wasn't full of AquaNet, and you
know it's they were slightly different, you know. And he's
and what I like how he put it was they
I feel they made everyone want to get better, you know.
So I appreciate that. And there was something else that
you mentioned before, because there's so much we talk about
with you, which I found interesting that you feel it's
(27:27):
Duff's band now.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Yeah, well you know Duff when he was a hardcore
kid in a band called the Farts with his z
in the end. Yeah, he did, and he didn't even
graduate high school, you know, and he went back got
his high school equivalency diploma, he got his college degree
(27:51):
and then got an MBA and he uses that to
kind of he's the manager of the band, right and
he has he has the skills now to do it.
So it's a really incredible story really, and you know,
I think he instills the discipline. There used to be
(28:15):
this thing about Guns and Roses that he didn't even
know if they were going to show up for their concert.
I remember when sound Garden was their opening band, who
again I was pretty tight with, and you know, we'd
be backstage for like three hours and just bullshitting and
all of a sudden realizing that Guns and Roses hasn't
(28:36):
gone on the stage yet, you know, and uh, that
would never happen again. You know, were duff running the show.
That does not happen. You know, they're they're a very
professional band now, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
And he's been a good boy basically since ac DC.
But yeah, I'm sure that was a clause of this reunion. Like, bro,
we're all like in our sixties, you can't do this now,
and yeah, sometimes they're even early, so yeah, No, that's
it's it is interesting and you know, not like I
know firsthand, but it seems like it was Duff's call
to change the drummer. That's a that's a pretty big,
(29:13):
you know, power, you know, move of just like who's
kind of running this ship or who has a big say?
Speaker 1 (29:19):
So I knew him from the clubs in New York.
I'm spacing on his name now. Who what's the name
of the drummer who just left? Frank Frank Ferrer? Yeah,
and Frank Ferrer used to be in a band with
the guy I'm so bad at this, the guy who's
still in the band who took Richard Ford. So those
(29:44):
guys used to play in clubs and like together, you know,
so they were kind of a package, you know. But
it was an incredible, uh move for them to be
in Guns N' Roses. They those guys were great, those
guys are you know. I assume that the drummer, from
(30:06):
what I understand, is some friend of stuffs from somewhere, yeah,
Seattle or La or something.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yeah, yeah, he's Uh they played and loaded for a
couple of years together and uh also be Wall Nations.
So yeah, he's he's a he's a duff guy. And yeah,
Richard and Frank. You know, being a New Yorker, you know,
I'm privy enough to actually have had them both on
the show. Uh, and they both you know, which is
I don't know how I got away with that at
(30:34):
the time, because you can't talk to anybody in Guns
and Roses, whether they're Axel or not. Uh. I don't
think that can happen any again. But I'm Frank recently
did a DJ set just like you were talking about
in New York and my wife were and I were
talking about going, but I didn't want to leave my
son and am like, can I take Harrison. She's like,
(30:55):
it's not that kind of a It was like called
breakfast bar or something like that and would have been
too crowded. I'm like, no, I want to take him.
So I know Frank will be doing he's from here,
I'll be doing a lot of stuff, so I hope
to see him around.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Yeah, you know when when your kids were young, when
your kids are young too, you can't.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Really I'm too eager. I'm so eager, Steven. I don't
know you have kids, right, you have?
Speaker 1 (31:18):
I have a thirteen year old daughter.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Yeah, what was the first show that you took her to?
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Almost Queen okay, or if you know who they are,
probably yeah, probably one of the first, probably one of
the biggest cover bands in the country. But they played
in the theater of about fifteen hundred two thousand, you know.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
So how old is she at the time?
Speaker 1 (31:45):
She was probably ten.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
All I'm really too anxious. He well, he's already seen
what was the name? It was like Abbey Road, who
was a Beatles cover band, Uh, dave Man Matthews. So
he's already gotten a few under his belt. I want
to take him out if Guns and Roses tours next year,
I will get him like three headphones and I'll sit
there on the way back. He's going with me. I
(32:10):
can't wait until he's ten. He's got he's got to go.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
My daughter's become a hell of a guitar player too,
and I love that. On Father's Day, she said she
wrote me a letter and said, thank you for teaching
me to hate ballads.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Well, you don't like ballads?
Speaker 1 (32:29):
I don't like that one.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
I guess you're a hardcore guy, so you hate no
member Raine and probably do without it. Okay, that's fair.
I'll take that, uh to continue your your your trilogy here,
Steven and I feel we could talk about so much
in addition to music.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Yeah, So in November, I have the third part of
the trilogy. It's called When Rock Met hip Hop?
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Right, And obviously that's the hip hop like I grew
up with, you know, nineties hip hop and those crossovers
like you just don't any crossover now, there's too many.
Nothing's going to stick out like what Anthrax did or
what Arrowsmith did.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
So that's what the book's about. It's about bringing the
noise h Anthrax Public Enemy. It's about Walk This Way
Run DMC Aerosmith. It's about the Beastie Boys with with
Carrie King from Slayer. It's about Biohazard and Onyx doing Slam.
(33:30):
It's about the Judgment Nights soundtrack and it and it
kind of ends with the music of today, which is,
you know, kind of your some of it's a little
bit older, but it's still the music of today, which
is kind of your corn and biscuit system of a
(33:51):
down Lincoln Park kind of thing. Okay, So you know,
so it's it kind of ends the circle. But there
was a time where rock met hip hop was I mean,
I still think you could do rock met hip hop
is so common at this point, you know, it's almost
(34:11):
it's not really groundbreaking, but at that point it was
really groundbreaking. You know. It's you know, MTV did a
thing of their biggest videos of all time, and the
number one video was walk this Way, right, So it's
a powerful subject. I think it's my best book comes
out in November. I'm gonna be doing a lot of
(34:35):
hype for that, but this is part of it, you know,
just kind of planning the seeds right now.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Yeah, No, that a little bit. That is cool because
that's the era I grew up in, and you're right
that I just it was all over whenever VH one
did those countdowns, it was always there the run dmc
GARYL McDaniel, he's another lucky one that I've had on
the show. Yeah, he's this little guy, very very cool guy.
(35:00):
Just it was so I don't know what that even
says about us, where that was so shocking to do
and now you just have these like look at like
machine Gun Kelly. You know, I'm not personally a fan,
but the fact that he just does all these different
genres and it just doesn't matter anymore.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
So I was reading that he was kind of a
hardcore kid.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
That's why you you hear a hardcore kid and then
so that's something that's interesting. Where do these people where
it comes from? So I think that's where your book,
your books are so important when you look at today's
artists where everything is so blended and where do they
come from? Well, how did we get to this point?
So that's why books like yours, you know, with the
hardcore music, with with hair metal, which is always like
(35:44):
what other than disco? What is such a short lived
genre that it's just going to continue like that and
just be beloved. I just feel like it's there aren't many.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Well, you know, every once in a while there's like
music that uh there's like a new music that comes
around and it changes everything. There's like you know, there's
famous stories of like Warrant walking into the Columbia Records
and seeing Alison Chain's posters and just knowing that it
(36:14):
was over, or people I can't remember who it was,
but somebody walked into Geffen and saw the Guns and
Roses record and just no, it's Guns and Roses walked in.
Axel Rose walked in and saw the Nirvana posters and
knew it was over right there that they're and they'd
(36:36):
have to almost reinvent themselves to come back, right you know.
So it's a music has this thing about like every
ten twenty years, there's there's something that changes everything. You know,
like when the Beatles came out, all those kind of
(36:57):
like Pat Boone and you know, those kind of crooners,
you know, they they're kind of like post el, Like
Elvis Presley came out and he knocked the Frank Sinatras
out of the box. And then Beatles come around and
they knock off all these kind of like lame early sixties,
late fifties bands, and then you know, the hippies come
(37:21):
in and change everything. And then punk rock knocks out
disco and then knocks out classic rock too, right and so,
and then Nirvana, of course, you know, gets rid of
this kind of post Van Halen establishment which was hair metal, right, So,
(37:47):
and I think that just happens every few years. That's
that's basically the cycles of music that the record industries
find a formula that works, and then they beat it
to death, and then the everyone's sick of it and
it turns into something new Now, like I said, hardcore
is the exception to the rule because it never was big.
(38:11):
It never was like a stadium music.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
No, yeah, no, it's but it has that what I've
tried to do. A production director told me so many
years ago. It's kind of just carving your niche, your
niche in the world, and you get your fan base
with that, and you can make your the success without
maybe the financial success. And that's why so many these
(38:35):
hardcore bands could still play sold out shows. They're not
playing the garden, it's madis Square Garden. But they're playing
their clubs and doing what they're doing, what they've been doing,
just like us since our twenties, and enjoying life. And
I think that's what it's all about. So I congratulations.
So again, the American Hardcore Film is in. It's a
(38:56):
second edition fifteenth anniversary second edition of the American Hair
Metal Book. And again the upcoming trilogy the finale went
Rock met Hip Hop. So what's the best way to
keep track of everything? Stephen Blush? And I know you're
doing some screenings with Q and A. So people want
to see you out on the road. How can we
get more info?
Speaker 1 (39:15):
You could check me out the Stephen Blush on Instagram,
Stephen Blush and Stephen Blush on Facebook, and Stephen Blush
dot com.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
All right, that works, And I was assuming you would
have mentioned because the hip hop thing the first thing
that came to my mind. I don't know if we
ell get the story behind it. But did Axel Rose
ever do a rap wi sh a keel O'Neil. I
don't think that story is true. I think chick Shack
has denied it. You remember that that rumor that was around.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Yeah, I do remember that. I do remember that. I
don't think that ever happened.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
I don't think it did either, but it's fun to
think about because did he there's also rumors there were
rumors about what they did with n W Did that work?
Did they try to tour together? So I think there's
a lot to uncover. So maybe there'll be a sequel
to your hip hop book. I'm going to ask you.
I have some requests, see if you can uncover some
guns of roads hip hop connections. What did acts really
try to get done? What was my world really about?
(40:16):
Was it rapid?
Speaker 1 (40:17):
You know there was this thing with n W. A
Actually I'm wearing my straight out of Cookies t shirt.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
That worked perfectly because I was like, I was about
to mention, you have a great cookie monster shirt on
what is that about? So perfect? It's attic.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
So but there is a story about NWA when easy
was alive, they tried to do this thing called ghetto metal.
You know, they saw it as a vision, but uh,
you know, the guys, the surviving members, you know, were
like a little too afraid to go there. You know,
(40:54):
they were, you know, as as hip hop artists, they
felt like that they couldn't really do that. But if
Easy E had survived, I think you would have seen that.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
What could have been. I mean there's photos of him
and Slash and man, you know that collaboration would have happened.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Of course it would have happened.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
So Stephen, thank you so much for your time, and
I hope we get to do this again.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Yeah, it was really a pleasure and respect to you
and appetite for distortion.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
I appreciate it. And oh who who is a better
record this year? Jets or Giants. Both of our teams
are not doing Giants.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Giants are gonna have a better record.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Okay, not good argue?
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Sure, Yeah, you know I wrote for the Jets for
six years.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Oh I'm sorry I didn't even get.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
To talk about that, but I got really bored of
writing the same this version of the same article every
single week. And that was a really bad time too. So,
you know what, there are there are some positive things
happening with Aaron Glenn as the new coach and all that,
(41:59):
but I'm not going to get my hopes up too high.
You know.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
I'll say this to you too, because I think since
you're a sports guy.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Just can I just say one thing is that I
became a Jets fan because I had been going to
see bands like Slayer and Megadeath and Marilyn Manson and Metallica,
you know, all that kind of stuff. And I went
to a Jets game in the mid nineties and the
(42:28):
crowds were worse at the Jet game. They were more misbehaved,
they were more rowdy.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
That's me.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
That's how I really got into it, because I'm from
Jersey and that's where the Giants originally come from. It's
usually where that's where my allegiances started. And then I
for a while I wasn't even following football.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
You're like, this is a hardcore show just without the
music exactly totally. I don't know if you follow basketball
at all, but I have to make this analogy before
we get out of here because I see it all
the time. I'm wearing my Knicks hat and you see
all the dialogue now because they fired their coach and
(43:11):
who had been successful, and I see all these comments
on Twitter about what is this management doing. They don't
know how to communicate. You know, We're never going to
be successful as long as we have. It's so frustrating,
and I'm just thinking, I'm a guns Are Roses fan,
Biggs fan, and i Los fan. I'm just glad I've
(43:31):
seen some Giants wins in my life and the Yankees anyway, again,
we can be here for more hours, We're not going
to do that, So Stephen, thank you for your time.
That does it for this episode of Appetite for Distortion.
When we see the next one. In the words of
Axl Rose concerning Chinese democracy, I don't know as soon
as the word, but you'll see it. Thanks to the
(43:56):
lame ass security.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
I'm going home.
You know. This is Appetite for Distortion.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to the podcast Appetite four Distortion, Episode number five
hundred and twelve. My name is Brando. Welcome to the podcast,
mister Stephen Blush. How are you, sir?
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Oh, I'm doing great. That's five hundred and twelve episodes. Yeah,
I said, yeah, wow, that's incredible. That's really incredible. Respect
to you for sure.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Well that means a lot coming from you, with the
amount of books that you've written and in documentaries that
you've produced, and how long you've been around the scenes.
So yeah, five five point twelve is giving me a
chance to interview people like you. You're well, you're from Jersey.
But where are you right now? In respect, I live
(01:12):
in Manhattan, Okay, okay, I'm in Queen's right now. I'm
in Queen's Forest Hills. And I was telling you off
the air and the true spirit of New York City
and things just not being finished and things falling apart.
After I had, you know, confirmed this interview again, my
bathroom and my apartment, the ceiling started leaking. So there's
(01:37):
the supers are in and out, so maybe we'll hear
some some fun background noise, but I think we'll be okay.
I guess figured it okay, we could deal with it. Yeah, Well,
I like to give my listeners a heads up because
sometimes my son at two year old's running around, but
now he's out with my wife at dance class. So
enough about me. I wanted to learn about you for
those who are unfamiliar with your work and your publications,
(02:02):
do you mind just kind of telling us a little
bit about yourself, Stephen? You said, also off the air,
since you became an author, who you're Stephen? So tell
us about.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Step My first book came out as Steven, so I've
it's very interesting that people who knew me before that
refer to me as Steve. But Stephen's professional names, so
we could work with that.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Tell us about Steve then, how he got to Stephen?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Well, let me see. Well, if you want my life
story a little bit, I was a kid who was
growing up in New Jersey, and I was always into
punk rock from like the earliest times. I was on
a high school exchange program to England, so I saw
the clash before they came to America, you know, things
(02:50):
like that. So I was really kind of ahead of
the curve at at all moments. So I went to
college in Washington, d C. And there was this new
form of punk rock that was happening that really spoke
to me, which was known as hardcore. The original punk
was was really great, but it was a lot of
artists and like the British were talking about being on
(03:13):
the Dole or talking about Maggie Thatcher and the Queen
and like just stuff that didn't didn't I didn't really
relate to. But here came this new form that was
a suburban form of punk, and in DC it was
bands like the Bad Brains and Minor Threat. And I
(03:34):
was never a musician, so I found my place within
the scene as the kid promoter. So I promoted all
these bands. I promoted Black Flag and Dead Kennedy's and
Circle Jerks and Suicidal and you know, half these bands
crashed on my couch. So it was a very really
influential on my life as it went forward.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
And do you still have that couch?
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Definitely not. The end game was that I went to college,
probably to be a lawyer at the George Washington University,
and I was never going to be a lawyer after that,
and I actually failed. I got an f in English
when I was in my junior year of high school,
(04:20):
and the teacher just I would love to see that
teacher when I would love to run into him. But
so I didn't really think I was much of a writer.
And then but I wrote for the alternative newspaper at
my college and I got really good feedback. So this
was kind of happening. And I moved to New York
(04:42):
and I started writing for some magazines doing interviews. My
first ever interview was Harley Flanagan from the Chromags, which
fit in with my past in Washington, d C. And
I became a writer for a lot of fashion magazines
and rock magazine like Interview and Paper and Details and
(05:06):
of course Spin Magazine and uh, you know the rock
magazines Rip Magazine. So I really found my place as
a writer. I started my own magazine called Seconds Magazine,
which we did fifty issues of. It was kind of underground,
never really made the leap, but I knew everybody in
(05:30):
the music scene. I mean, you see some gold records
behind me with Sound Guard, Faith No More, and those
were the bands I was kind of help helping to
break at the time. Tool you know this typeo negative
you know, those were the kind of bands that I
was helping to break at the time. You know, we
(05:50):
were a so called Taste Maker magazine, and my writing
for the other magazines kind of crossed over into that.
Andah forward to the late nineties. I was seeing all
these history of rock and roll documentaries on the air,
and they would do things like it would go talk
(06:11):
about the clash and the band X maybe, and then
it would go straight to Nirvana, like this whole hardcore
thing never happened, And it kind of inspired me to
write my own book. I had promoted shows without ever
promoting a show, before I started a magazine, before ever
(06:33):
having any experience in publishing. I became a writer without
a journalism degree. So I wrote a book without any experience,
and that was the original American hardcore and that took
off out of the box. And the action with that
(06:54):
was I felt like that there was you know, it
was before the internet was really big, so you know,
and it wasn't like you called information and got the
number from Joey Shithead from DA It didn't really work
like that. It was just really the connections I had
with everyone from my days in college, and I compared
(07:19):
to like the Army where you're kind of you've been
through it all with these people and you could pick
up like twenty years later and like, you know, mister
beat writing, you know, miss abeat exactly. So I wrote
the book. Then I made the film with Paul Rachman,
(07:42):
who was at the time doing really cool videos like
Temple of the Dog, Hunger Strike and Panterra Cemetery Gates
and Bad Brain's Eye against Eye, and you know, so
we were a good and we made the film American
Hardcore and it went to sun Dance, and you know,
(08:05):
that was just such a trip. You know, we really
were like on you know, in the mainstream all of
a sudden. And that inspired me to write a second
edition of the book, which is the one that most
people have. And that was basically because I had spoken
to a lot of people because it was before the
(08:27):
Internet and I was speaking to a lot of people
for their information. I felt a lot of people were
just they didn't remember things quite right, you know, and
I had to go to more. Once I was able
to do my research and I had already done the film,
I really had this you know, new like real kind
(08:50):
of fire and experience, and that's led to that, and
I've written eight books since, and recently I just did
a trilogy When Rock Met Disco, When Rock Met Reggae,
and the new one coming out in November, which I'm promoting,
is when Rock Met hip Hop. And I'm not really
(09:12):
talking about disco or reggae or hip hop. I'm talking
about how it crossed with rock and roll, so disco
I'm talking about when Kissed did I Was Made for
Loving You? Or The Rolling Stones did Miss You. You know,
here's where like really great musicians doing doing dance music, right.
(09:33):
You know, they took a lot of shit for it,
but I don't think you could listen to those records
now and have you know, think that there's anything really
wrong with it.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
And I agree it's funny. Gene of course shits on
that song. Yeah, And that was the one he did
with that Desmond Child, right and right exactly.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah, that was their beginning with the Desmond Child whole thing.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Because he Desmond has been on the podcast and he
just talks about Gene. He's like, yeah, I made him
all that money, and like Geene loves song. He's just
trying to like distance himself because he's too cool for that. Yeah,
it is funny and then kind of I just can't
get past of just that teacher. I really do hope
you meet that teacher because even though you're not a
musician just like me and I'm in to weigh a
(10:15):
promoter of doing radio whatever, it's hardcore. What you've done.
It is hard, you know, to create this life for
yourself and to not in the traditional way. Yeah, because
I got a journalism degree, but so I maybe I
went to more traditional route. But I admire you said,
you admire the amount of episodes I've done of this.
(10:37):
I admire what you've done because it's you probably got
I get a lot of nose. I don't take nos. Well,
you probably got even more nose if you're not even
doing it the proper way, like no, you can't do this,
you can't do that. And the fact that you're you know,
you're here with celebrating so it's not lost. The fifteenth
anniversary of your award winning American Hardcore Film. And then
(10:58):
it's the second edition we have talked about this yet
American hair Metal, that book and as you mentioned, the
trilogy When rock met hip Hop and it's all meets
here on Appetite for distortion and why I was excited
to talk to you today because you mentioned a few bands.
If you can't tell, Guns n' Roses is my themes.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Yeah, but you I love the name of your podcast.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
By the way, thank you Appetite for Distortion. You know
who just said the same thing. Who is probably going
to be a future guest. I'm just looking at the
make sure I actually believe it, because I never believe
when people agree to be on the podcast. Carrie Casem
Casey's daughter said she's like, I love the name of
your podcast. I'm like, come on, that's fine, but you
(11:41):
talk about Here's one thing that was really interesting today.
As we're recording this, you said, your first interview was
with Harley from My main job for radio for with
Premiere is to do radio tours like kind of what
you're doing, but just more sainc with different radio stations.
Harley is doing a radio tour today with us for
(12:03):
his documentary.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Well, that's great. I get to see the documentary.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Wired for Chaos. That's just very weird universe kind of
you know, promoting hardcore you know today on this day,
But you mentioned like Bad Brains Slash is a major
fan of bad Brains. He's worn shirts on stage Minor Threat,
black Flag. Henry Rollins has been on the show. He
told us that he did like a. He was like
(12:29):
a roadie once for G and R at some U
C l LA show. So I would just love to
know more about like these bands, what makes minor threats
such a and bad brains? Like still after all these years,
like so impactful on like musicians that are you know,
big musicians again like Slash, like Duff. They often cite
(12:51):
these bands, these hardcore bands, what makes them so powerful
today all these years later when the when the media
tried to ignore them, like you said, like it didn't happen.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, well that's what it was. Was there was never
like a the record industry kind of ignored this music.
And the music, first of all, was so radical. It
was it was so like not part of the mainstream,
but so not part of the music industry. It wasn't
like there was a signing frenzy of signing bands to
(13:23):
be like the next agnostic front, right, you know. So
it stayed true to itself and it stayed underground. And
that's the power of hardcore. You know, the power of
hardcore is that everybody discovers it in their own terms,
in their own place. The pioneers you're talking about, I think,
(13:46):
for any music, for any musical form, the pioneers are
the ones to stand out, right. So, you know, the
Bad Brains and Minor Threat in Washington, d C. For instance,
they were so intense. I mean there was such fury.
There was such what they lacked in musicality they brought
(14:12):
with angst and attitude and revolutionary furor. And you can't
duplicate that, you know. It was not like there were
no there was no barrage of videos by these bands.
I mean there was here and there. Like I mentioned
(14:32):
a Bad Brains video, there was a famous suicidal video,
you know for institutionalized Pepsi. Yeah, what a great song, right.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I didn't finally collaborate with Pepsi to get his own drink?
Didn't that finally just happen? Dreaming?
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Never heard that?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
All right? Maybe maybe it was a fever dream.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Okay, Yeah, it could very well be they slept on
that one. But I don't. No, no, man, these bands,
these bands still live today because because of how hard
they brought it. You know, they were bringing it so hard,
and it was when I hung out with Black Flag.
(15:17):
They talked about success in non economic terms, which was
a term, which was an idea that really blew my mind.
I never even considered that, the idea that you could
be successful and yet not really making any money at
what you're doing. Right So I think I followed that bad.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I always thinking the same thing. I'm like, I think
I'm doing that right now.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
But you know what I got to say when I was,
when I thought about what I wanted to do at
age eighteen to twenty five, is what I'm doing now
right so I'm still doing it, you know. And that's
that's the power of That's the power of music. It
(16:05):
will you can't be afraid of making mistakes. You can't
be afraid of following your dreams. It's kind of hard
to explain to some people, you know, I talked to Uh,
you know, my daughter goes to a public school, and
(16:27):
New York's very different than it used to be, and
you know, everybody works in finance and you know, things
like that, and they couldn't even consider not you know,
doing something conservative and safe and and ultimately you know,
all about the money. But a lot of people are jealous,
(16:49):
a lot of people I'm meet who are who I
consider successful, they're jealous of what I get to do
because at the end of the day, I'm excited to
wake up every morning, you know, I'm excited to start writing.
You know, I'm excited to talk to you. I mean,
this is this is the payback, you know, so I
(17:10):
I don't take it lightly. I think what this is
is this is hardcore. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, now that well said, and I feel a lot
of that as I'm kind of nodding and smiling because I, yeah,
kind of definitely cut from the the same cloth with that.
There was something you mentioned that I got to start
writing things down. There was something you mentioned that it's
always so funny. It'll come back to me, but to
make the because there's a lot to talk about, the
(17:41):
pivot to hair metal, right, Yeah, so obviously it's another
I guess there. Radio obviously paid attention to that. It's
a different, completely different. Oh I now I remember see
I stalled enough agnostic Front. You mentioned that my first
radio in college because doing that was the show was
(18:04):
called the Aggressive Edge, and that's kind of you mentioned
how you discovered hardcore in your own way. That's how
we discovered even Agnostic Fronts and all these hardcore bands.
Was doing this college radio show from eleven pm to
one am every Thursday. You know, when I really wasn't
a hardcore guy. I was more into the have you
(18:24):
metal guns and Roses? And obviously it got as hard
as Pantera for me. But I learned a lot, you know,
from doing that, more deeper into the you know, the
catalogs of some of the of like Suicidal, you know
where I just really do that one song, but going
deeper into it, so just a new appreciation of it.
Because now to make the pivot, I was like a
(18:45):
hair metal guy. I was like I was, it was weird.
I love grunge, hair metal and hardcore and all in
a blender of crap. So the kind of I wanted
to start this by asking you a question with the
guest I had on a few episodes ago. He had
his book out Guns Roses at forty Martin pop off.
Yeah recently, you know by the way he is, he is,
(19:05):
but he had a controversial opinion, which he's said for
many years that he considers Appetite for Destruction to be
an above average hair metal album. And he's like, it's
a good album, but he just didn't think it changed
the game. Is that when you talked about hair metal,
do you view as appetite or Guns of Roses as
hair metal?
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Absolutely? Absolutely, yeah. I mean they they came out of
the box that way, you know. You know, it's very
interesting now like Guns n' Roses or John bon Jovi,
they kind of go out of their way to say
that they weren't. But that was the that was the
industry at the time, you know, that was the scene
at the time. So I saw Guns n' Roses in Hollywood,
(19:49):
you know, right as that album came out, and you
can't tell me that crowd wasn't, you know, Sunset Strip
hair metal? You know. But I don't say that with
any disregard. I mean I would actually disagree that it's
a above average record. I would say it's a classic record,
you know. I would say that Guns n' Roses was
(20:12):
a classic band, is a classic band. And I think
the fact that all they've been through, with all the
weird stuff that Axel Rose was pulling in the late
nineties and early os and for them to come back
with Duff running the band and just kind of picking
(20:34):
up where they left off in the early nineties is
it's pretty incredible. I have a lot of respect for Duff,
a lot of respect for Guns n' Roses. I mean,
I think that's a great band. So so anyway, when
I was living in New after I was in Washington,
(20:55):
d C. I came to New York and I became
a DJ in a lot of the clubs. And that's
how I supported myself as a writer, basically, was that
I was, you know, you make good money as a
club DJ, and so I would work at a lot
(21:16):
of these clubs. There was a place called the Cat
Club in New York, and that was every Wednesday night
was the home of hair metal in New York. And
I worked at the Limelight, which was also like the
home of hair metal on Sunday nights. So I really
got into it. And you know, I was also discovered,
(21:40):
you know, as opposed to hardcore, which was kind of
like a sausage factory as you would refer to it.
As I started getting into meeting women, and I met
some of the coolest, most beautiful, like like rowdy, cool
women that I ever met in my life. In that
(22:03):
so I really have no regrets about it. I mean,
I saw all these bands, so I think. So I
wrote American Hardcore, which is in its second public edition,
like we talked about, and then I wrote American hair Metal,
(22:24):
which I think I disillusioned a lot of my friends.
What I what I did that originally, which is now
in its second edition as well. That came out about
six months ago and it's in its second edition, So
I would recommend people want to check that out. So
(22:45):
what was interesting about that book was I tried to
American Hardcore was really raw and you interview the people
and they'd speak from the heart, and you know, it
was all about that. So I tried the same formula
with the American hair Metal at first, and you know,
I remember talking to Don Dawkin or you know, Phil
(23:08):
Lewis from La Guns, and they were almost embarrassed by
what they did, you know, and they couldn't really talk
about it because they were worried about what the wife
and kids might think. And you know, it was kind
of lame, I thought. So I just went back to
all my old magazines which I had stashes of and paraphernalia,
(23:36):
merchant merchant stuff that I had from back in the day,
and I made a book out of that. And then
the quotes and interviews. The quotes and the lyrics were unbelievable.
But the interviews, you know, these guys were on like
real head trips. They thought they were all gonna, you know,
(23:59):
live forever and be stars forever. And you know, so
it's a little tongue in cheek. It is tongue in cheek.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Well that's what makes the because it was recently the
anniversary of the Decline of Western Civilization Part two, and
it's kind of the same thing of just like ow
that era, it's just like it's it's gonna last forever
and it doesn't. And yeah, you know, I was lucky
enough to also have Phil and Don on the on
the show, and yeah, you know some other people from
(24:29):
that era, and yeah they're family men now. But it
was what it was, you know. It's that you can't
talk about it in the same way though, So yeah,
it does make it more challenging to write a book,
like an honest book about it without going back to
the unfiltered stuff when they were just being themselves, without
without worrying. Yeah, it's a totally different world now. So
(24:53):
was it a fun Was that as fun to write thing?
Because I imagine the hard because I'd.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Go back and look at you know, those glossy magazines
with all this stuff and find you know, Rip and
Metal Edge and you know Circus and yeah, so that's
where I found all my research was just going back
(25:19):
and reading those magazines, which was a whot, you know,
and I found you know, it's it's kind of an
interesting piece because it's very sociological. You know. I have
fan letters where people would draw pictures of the bands
and like their favorite you know, here's here's my picture
(25:41):
of Nikky six, and here's what I have to say
about it, you know. So you know, that was a
really fun book to write. I think if a few
of those people are I would say it's fifty to
fifty on that crowd. You know. Some of them, I
feel they were made fun of, but I can't really
argue with them because I was having I was having
(26:06):
fun at their expense. I was. And I think that's
the reason the books in a second edition is because
it's sold really well and as opposed to selling too
but it sold to a very select crowd. I would
describe it as they sold it to secretaries.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Oh okay, all right, all right, fair well, I've always
looked at hair metal. I know people try to think
of it as a derogatory term, but to me, it
just explains that era and I love that music, and
even Martin Popop didn't mean in a derogatory way. It's
just like just like you and I really and that's
(26:43):
what we spoke about. And I've been doing this since
the beginning of the podcast as I wear a shirt
from my first Gen R concert in two thousand and two.
So I have a different perspective, completely different perspective of
what Guns and Roses was is you were there, so yeah,
you can't tell nobody could tell you that that crowd
(27:06):
wasn't you know, that wasn't full of AquaNet, and you
know it's they were slightly different, you know. And he's
and what I like how he put it was they
I feel they made everyone want to get better, you know.
So I appreciate that. And there was something else that
you mentioned before, because there's so much we talk about
with you, which I found interesting that you feel it's
(27:27):
Duff's band now.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Yeah, well you know Duff when he was a hardcore
kid in a band called the Farts with his z
in the end. Yeah, he did, and he didn't even
graduate high school, you know, and he went back got
his high school equivalency diploma, he got his college degree
(27:51):
and then got an MBA and he uses that to
kind of he's the manager of the band, right and
he has he has the skills now to do it.
So it's a really incredible story really, and you know,
I think he instills the discipline. There used to be
(28:15):
this thing about Guns and Roses that he didn't even
know if they were going to show up for their concert.
I remember when sound Garden was their opening band, who
again I was pretty tight with, and you know, we'd
be backstage for like three hours and just bullshitting and
all of a sudden realizing that Guns and Roses hasn't
(28:36):
gone on the stage yet, you know, and uh, that
would never happen again. You know, were duff running the show.
That does not happen. You know, they're they're a very
professional band now, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
And he's been a good boy basically since ac DC.
But yeah, I'm sure that was a clause of this reunion. Like, bro,
we're all like in our sixties, you can't do this now,
and yeah, sometimes they're even early, so yeah, No, that's
it's it is interesting and you know, not like I
know firsthand, but it seems like it was Duff's call
to change the drummer. That's a that's a pretty big,
(29:13):
you know, power, you know, move of just like who's
kind of running this ship or who has a big say?
Speaker 1 (29:19):
So I knew him from the clubs in New York.
I'm spacing on his name now. Who what's the name
of the drummer who just left? Frank Frank Ferrer? Yeah,
and Frank Ferrer used to be in a band with
the guy I'm so bad at this, the guy who's
still in the band who took Richard Ford. So those
(29:44):
guys used to play in clubs and like together, you know,
so they were kind of a package, you know. But
it was an incredible, uh move for them to be
in Guns N' Roses. They those guys were great, those
guys are you know. I assume that the drummer, from
(30:06):
what I understand, is some friend of stuffs from somewhere, yeah,
Seattle or La or something.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yeah, yeah, he's Uh they played and loaded for a
couple of years together and uh also be Wall Nations.
So yeah, he's he's a he's a duff guy. And yeah,
Richard and Frank. You know, being a New Yorker, you know,
I'm privy enough to actually have had them both on
the show. Uh, and they both you know, which is
I don't know how I got away with that at
(30:34):
the time, because you can't talk to anybody in Guns
and Roses, whether they're Axel or not. Uh. I don't
think that can happen any again. But I'm Frank recently
did a DJ set just like you were talking about
in New York and my wife were and I were
talking about going, but I didn't want to leave my
son and am like, can I take Harrison. She's like,
(30:55):
it's not that kind of a It was like called
breakfast bar or something like that and would have been
too crowded. I'm like, no, I want to take him.
So I know Frank will be doing he's from here,
I'll be doing a lot of stuff, so I hope
to see him around.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Yeah, you know when when your kids were young, when
your kids are young too, you can't.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Really I'm too eager. I'm so eager, Steven. I don't
know you have kids, right, you have?
Speaker 1 (31:18):
I have a thirteen year old daughter.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Yeah, what was the first show that you took her to?
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Almost Queen okay, or if you know who they are,
probably yeah, probably one of the first, probably one of
the biggest cover bands in the country. But they played
in the theater of about fifteen hundred two thousand, you know.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
So how old is she at the time?
Speaker 1 (31:45):
She was probably ten.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
All I'm really too anxious. He well, he's already seen
what was the name? It was like Abbey Road, who
was a Beatles cover band, Uh, dave Man Matthews. So
he's already gotten a few under his belt. I want
to take him out if Guns and Roses tours next year,
I will get him like three headphones and I'll sit
there on the way back. He's going with me. I
(32:10):
can't wait until he's ten. He's got he's got to go.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
My daughter's become a hell of a guitar player too,
and I love that. On Father's Day, she said she
wrote me a letter and said, thank you for teaching
me to hate ballads.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Well, you don't like ballads?
Speaker 1 (32:29):
I don't like that one.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
I guess you're a hardcore guy, so you hate no
member Raine and probably do without it. Okay, that's fair.
I'll take that, uh to continue your your your trilogy here,
Steven and I feel we could talk about so much
in addition to music.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Yeah, So in November, I have the third part of
the trilogy. It's called When Rock Met hip Hop?
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Right, And obviously that's the hip hop like I grew
up with, you know, nineties hip hop and those crossovers
like you just don't any crossover now, there's too many.
Nothing's going to stick out like what Anthrax did or
what Arrowsmith did.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
So that's what the book's about. It's about bringing the
noise h Anthrax Public Enemy. It's about Walk This Way
Run DMC Aerosmith. It's about the Beastie Boys with with
Carrie King from Slayer. It's about Biohazard and Onyx doing Slam.
(33:30):
It's about the Judgment Nights soundtrack and it and it
kind of ends with the music of today, which is,
you know, kind of your some of it's a little
bit older, but it's still the music of today, which
is kind of your corn and biscuit system of a
(33:51):
down Lincoln Park kind of thing. Okay, So you know,
so it's it kind of ends the circle. But there
was a time where rock met hip hop was I mean,
I still think you could do rock met hip hop
is so common at this point, you know, it's almost
(34:11):
it's not really groundbreaking, but at that point it was
really groundbreaking. You know. It's you know, MTV did a
thing of their biggest videos of all time, and the
number one video was walk this Way, right, So it's
a powerful subject. I think it's my best book comes
out in November. I'm gonna be doing a lot of
(34:35):
hype for that, but this is part of it, you know,
just kind of planning the seeds right now.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Yeah, No, that a little bit. That is cool because
that's the era I grew up in, and you're right
that I just it was all over whenever VH one
did those countdowns, it was always there the run dmc
GARYL McDaniel, he's another lucky one that I've had on
the show. Yeah, he's this little guy, very very cool guy.
(35:00):
Just it was so I don't know what that even
says about us, where that was so shocking to do
and now you just have these like look at like
machine Gun Kelly. You know, I'm not personally a fan,
but the fact that he just does all these different
genres and it just doesn't matter anymore.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
So I was reading that he was kind of a
hardcore kid.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
That's why you you hear a hardcore kid and then
so that's something that's interesting. Where do these people where
it comes from? So I think that's where your book,
your books are so important when you look at today's
artists where everything is so blended and where do they
come from? Well, how did we get to this point?
So that's why books like yours, you know, with the
hardcore music, with with hair metal, which is always like
(35:44):
what other than disco? What is such a short lived
genre that it's just going to continue like that and
just be beloved. I just feel like it's there aren't many.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Well, you know, every once in a while there's like
music that uh there's like a new music that comes
around and it changes everything. There's like you know, there's
famous stories of like Warrant walking into the Columbia Records
and seeing Alison Chain's posters and just knowing that it
(36:14):
was over, or people I can't remember who it was,
but somebody walked into Geffen and saw the Guns and
Roses record and just no, it's Guns and Roses walked in.
Axel Rose walked in and saw the Nirvana posters and
knew it was over right there that they're and they'd
(36:36):
have to almost reinvent themselves to come back, right you know.
So it's a music has this thing about like every
ten twenty years, there's there's something that changes everything. You know,
like when the Beatles came out, all those kind of
(36:57):
like Pat Boone and you know, those kind of crooners,
you know, they they're kind of like post el, Like
Elvis Presley came out and he knocked the Frank Sinatras
out of the box. And then Beatles come around and
they knock off all these kind of like lame early sixties,
late fifties bands, and then you know, the hippies come
(37:21):
in and change everything. And then punk rock knocks out
disco and then knocks out classic rock too, right and so,
and then Nirvana, of course, you know, gets rid of
this kind of post Van Halen establishment which was hair metal, right, So,
(37:47):
and I think that just happens every few years. That's
that's basically the cycles of music that the record industries
find a formula that works, and then they beat it
to death, and then the everyone's sick of it and
it turns into something new Now, like I said, hardcore
is the exception to the rule because it never was big.
(38:11):
It never was like a stadium music.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
No, yeah, no, it's but it has that what I've
tried to do. A production director told me so many
years ago. It's kind of just carving your niche, your
niche in the world, and you get your fan base
with that, and you can make your the success without
maybe the financial success. And that's why so many these
(38:35):
hardcore bands could still play sold out shows. They're not
playing the garden, it's madis Square Garden. But they're playing
their clubs and doing what they're doing, what they've been doing,
just like us since our twenties, and enjoying life. And
I think that's what it's all about. So I congratulations.
So again, the American Hardcore Film is in. It's a
(38:56):
second edition fifteenth anniversary second edition of the American Hair
Metal Book. And again the upcoming trilogy the finale went
Rock met Hip Hop. So what's the best way to
keep track of everything? Stephen Blush? And I know you're
doing some screenings with Q and A. So people want
to see you out on the road. How can we
get more info?
Speaker 1 (39:15):
You could check me out the Stephen Blush on Instagram,
Stephen Blush and Stephen Blush on Facebook, and Stephen Blush
dot com.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
All right, that works, And I was assuming you would
have mentioned because the hip hop thing the first thing
that came to my mind. I don't know if we
ell get the story behind it. But did Axel Rose
ever do a rap wi sh a keel O'Neil. I
don't think that story is true. I think chick Shack
has denied it. You remember that that rumor that was around.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Yeah, I do remember that. I do remember that. I
don't think that ever happened.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
I don't think it did either, but it's fun to
think about because did he there's also rumors there were
rumors about what they did with n W Did that work?
Did they try to tour together? So I think there's
a lot to uncover. So maybe there'll be a sequel
to your hip hop book. I'm going to ask you.
I have some requests, see if you can uncover some
guns of roads hip hop connections. What did acts really
try to get done? What was my world really about?
(40:16):
Was it rapid?
Speaker 1 (40:17):
You know there was this thing with n W. A
Actually I'm wearing my straight out of Cookies t shirt.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
That worked perfectly because I was like, I was about
to mention, you have a great cookie monster shirt on
what is that about? So perfect? It's attic.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
So but there is a story about NWA when easy
was alive, they tried to do this thing called ghetto metal.
You know, they saw it as a vision, but uh,
you know, the guys, the surviving members, you know, were
like a little too afraid to go there. You know,
(40:54):
they were, you know, as as hip hop artists, they
felt like that they couldn't really do that. But if
Easy E had survived, I think you would have seen that.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
What could have been. I mean there's photos of him
and Slash and man, you know that collaboration would have happened.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Of course it would have happened.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
So Stephen, thank you so much for your time, and
I hope we get to do this again.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Yeah, it was really a pleasure and respect to you
and appetite for distortion.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
I appreciate it. And oh who who is a better
record this year? Jets or Giants. Both of our teams
are not doing Giants.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Giants are gonna have a better record.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Okay, not good argue?
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Sure, Yeah, you know I wrote for the Jets for
six years.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Oh I'm sorry I didn't even get.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
To talk about that, but I got really bored of
writing the same this version of the same article every
single week. And that was a really bad time too. So,
you know what, there are there are some positive things
happening with Aaron Glenn as the new coach and all that,
(41:59):
but I'm not going to get my hopes up too high.
You know.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
I'll say this to you too, because I think since
you're a sports guy.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Just can I just say one thing is that I
became a Jets fan because I had been going to
see bands like Slayer and Megadeath and Marilyn Manson and Metallica,
you know, all that kind of stuff. And I went
to a Jets game in the mid nineties and the
(42:28):
crowds were worse at the Jet game. They were more misbehaved,
they were more rowdy.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
That's me.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
That's how I really got into it, because I'm from
Jersey and that's where the Giants originally come from. It's
usually where that's where my allegiances started. And then I
for a while I wasn't even following football.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
You're like, this is a hardcore show just without the
music exactly totally. I don't know if you follow basketball
at all, but I have to make this analogy before
we get out of here because I see it all
the time. I'm wearing my Knicks hat and you see
all the dialogue now because they fired their coach and
(43:11):
who had been successful, and I see all these comments
on Twitter about what is this management doing. They don't
know how to communicate. You know, We're never going to
be successful as long as we have. It's so frustrating,
and I'm just thinking, I'm a guns Are Roses fan,
Biggs fan, and i Los fan. I'm just glad I've
(43:31):
seen some Giants wins in my life and the Yankees anyway, again,
we can be here for more hours, We're not going
to do that, So Stephen, thank you for your time.
That does it for this episode of Appetite for Distortion.
When we see the next one. In the words of
Axl Rose concerning Chinese democracy, I don't know as soon
as the word, but you'll see it. Thanks to the
(43:56):
lame ass security.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
I'm going home.
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