September 16, 2025 • 36 mins
Derek Shulman, of progressive rock pioneers Gentle Giant and legendary A&R man, chronicles a remarkable life and career surrounded by music in his new memoir. Derek talks about opening for Black Sabbath, signing Bon Jovi, resurrecting AC/DC, and much more!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What they had in excellent and slash, and they certainly
made a big difference in the world.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to the podcast Appetite for Distortion, Episode number five
hundred and thirty. My name is Brando. Welcome to the
podcast a music icon. I think that's so fair to say.
Derek Shulman, how are you today, sir?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
I'm doing pretty well, thank you, considering my age and
the situation. Fine, all good, Thank you age.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I don't want to Maybe I should reveal because you
were watching this on YouTube because I do audio and video,
you might see my birthday sign behind me. I just
turned as we're taping this.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Oh yes, I didn't, Yes, I wow, happy birthday, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I turned. I'm not doing this to get happy birthday wishes.
I'm not like that. But it's my wife decided to
decorate my home studio and my birthday was yesterday. I
just turned forty two as we're taping this. And now
I'm just leaving them up because my son, who I
warned you about, who may interrupt the beginning of this interview,
likes he loves his numbers and his letters, so he said,
(01:08):
pe I are so let me let me leave them up.
So I just want to let you know that I'm
not some ego and having like a birthday week or
a birthday month. My son likes letters. My wife designed
this just so I feel old at forty two. This
is a nice little segue into everything because you have
lived quite a life. You have lived quite a life.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yes, I certainly have, and hopefully I'm I wake up
in the morning of saying thank Golf of that.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
So I this is all put them down finally in
a memoir, giant steps, my improbable journey from stage lights
to executive heights. So I don't know if you hear
him screaming in the background, Harrison, how do I tell him? Well,
I do I even begin to start the Derek Shulman
story when I tell him that eventually, let.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Me think here, tell him that this old guy who's
living in Manhattan, British was a British singer and an
executive that to be a good boy and to be
good to everyone, and also for his parents to be
(02:18):
good to him.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
So you're in Manhattan right now? Whereabouts?
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Yeap of the website here?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Oh? Okay, as I told you before, I'm in Queen's.
One of these days, I told you. I'm in a
home studio. When my son is old enough, I want
to have people come to the house and interview them.
So maybe in the future if you come back on,
I'll invite you over. You hang out with Harrison and
we'll do an interview. But I digress. So if you're
unfamiliar with Derek, I mean you should be, and maybe
(02:46):
it depends on your age. He's putting out Giant Steps,
an eye opening memoir that traces your extraordinary journey from
music from the nineteen sixties, the pop fame with Simon
dupri and the Big Sound, to cult status as the
front man and of a one of the pioneers of
aggressive rock gentle giants. And then you really had like
(03:06):
a second career like which arguably more even more successful
as a record executive A and R signing acts like
bon Jovi, Dream Theater, Slip Knot. You know you're you're
dealt with A C, d C and Bad Company and
Black sat You know your history goes back so far.
So when did you decide to write this book? Because
(03:26):
this must have been swimming in your head for a while,
all these stories, well.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
The sys have been swimming a minute because they're they're
the risks real, and they're all part of my experiences.
I was cajoled by a friend of mine, a friend
of ours, uh my wife's in ours, who was the
book editor of the New York Times, uh, a guy
called Jack Schwartz, And I tell him the story. We
(03:52):
get together for dinner occasionally and I tell him stories
about you know, I remember when Elton John was reg
and I it he was in the band, and then
tell him that stories about being on tour with Sabbath,
and then stories about you know this and that which
is in the book. And he said, you know, you
should really write a book about this. And I said, Jack,
(04:12):
I'm not a writer. I'm I've been an executive. I've
been a musician. But he said, all you have to
do is sit down a couple for a couple of
hours put that aside. And I said, And this went
on for a couple of years in the like before
two thousands, around before COVID, and he could joel me
into saying, look, just just put aside, you know, an
(04:34):
hour or two, put everything and start writing, which I
did before COVID in like twenty nineteen. But honestly, I
was not very good at putting that time aside. I'd
pick up the phone and I'd get I'd get sidetracked
by we're doing a remix of this, And so I wrote,
(04:55):
you know, maybe like about fifty pages. That took That
took me six months. And uh, then COVID it. And
I got COVID right at the beginning, very early on.
I mean, I was one of the first to get it.
And I dodged a bullet effectively. And I was isolated
(05:17):
in my bedroom for six weeks and I had all
I had was my TV with the Cuomo saying You're
gonna be okay, and and uh, but my laptop, and
I felt lousy. But nevertheless, I thought, well, let me
just start. I had nothing else to do except moaned
(05:40):
and grown moaned and growned into the laptop. It started
rewriting the book, and that's how I got back into it.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Do you find you guys you're spending the time? Do
you find yourself? Was it difficult at that point to
tell your story? Or was it starting to flow once
found the time?
Speaker 1 (06:03):
It? Well, actually, all what I did was I put
the points which are very very memorable in in a
in a in various sections of my life. Just these
you know, these bullet points everything like that are that
are sort of milestones in my life. And then I started,
you know, going through how to how to describe them
(06:26):
and and to be honest with you, the beginning of
the book was when I was feeling pretty loudly from
COVID and and in fact, that's why it kind of
starts with a bit of a not a bit. It
was a bad situation where my father died in my arms,
and that's when I had COVID and and and it's
(06:48):
also it also affected the rest of my life. Yeah,
both you know, health mentally health wise because that gave
me some kind of pe psd of health anxieties and
also knowing that I should be more aware about how
(07:10):
he was a smoker and a drinker, but also a
fantastic father and a great musician. But how to live
my life because of that that situation that happened, that
he would drop dead in my arms, on my brother's arms.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Oh my god, I'm so sorry that that that happened,
you know, that's that's so it must have been. I'm
assuming it was a cathartic then to start getting these
things down for your life and to change your life,
you know, with get your life down on paper and
also change your life in reality. So it must have
been quite the change for you because it's got to
(07:45):
be a memoir is a daunting task. I can't even imagine,
because it's like, are you at this point of your
life where you could tell your stories? It's is there
any sort of hesitation where because you're still a busy guy?
You know, that's it? You know, is there any sort
of hesitation to be like, Okay, am I almost putting
a period at the end of my life? Or no,
this is just I'm getting this out here so everybody
(08:07):
knows about me before it's too late.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Well there, there is, Well there is that I mean,
But no, I never I never really thought thought of that.
It was certainly the what I told you of. First
of all, that I was cajoled by someone who I
admired as a person who unfortunately passed away himself of
COVID a couple of years ago, which is terrible to say,
but cajoled into into start to start to write. And
(08:35):
even you know, I was a lyric writer in the band,
so you know I was a decent you know, word
smith if you like not speaking because no one could
understand me. Uh, but certainly writing wise, you know, I
kind of liked it and enjoyed putting words together. Uh.
And I figured during that period where there was a lockdown,
I start putting it together, even though yeah, I still
(08:59):
have scenes to do and want to do. But you
know the fact that he found it interesting as a journalist,
I figured, Okay, maybe a couple of other people would
find it and it's interesting too.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Well, one of the most fun stories. I guess to
kind of pivot because you were talking about COVID and death.
Let's pivot to the goods and some fun stuff. And
because I want people to read and go through all
the emotions, you know. And I will say, I got
an email this morning that we're sending you the book today,
the interviews today, but I'm pretty sure send it to me.
(09:31):
But I got to watch the trailer and some excerpts,
so I mean I got a little bit of a
of a taste of every you know, the cool stuff.
So what do you what were you really excited to
get down on Panda paper and you can't wait for
people to read about your story?
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Well, across the boards, it's about music. It's about being authentic.
It's about being surrounded by music all of my life
and the fact that I was lucky enough, I'd have
been lucky enough to be both a musician, presenting myself
on stage and writing and being creative in both the
(10:12):
as a musician and as on the other side of
the fence I say, executive, but as a as a
record guy, trying to keep that that authenticity, if you
like U in intact and being integrals as in that
part of my life as well, so but keeping that
(10:32):
as uh as authentic as I could, and helping other
artists on the Darth Vader side, if you like two
two be as you know, as you know, being able
to help them become as big as they could, uh,
(10:54):
giving given them, giving them my experiences from my prior life.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
If you like what I'm really wondering about before we
go into the A and R stuff, because I'm really
curious about what you brought the bond Jovi and Slipknot.
That's so cool and it shows you the the Swiss
army knife of talent and genres that you have, and
that kind of goes back to so I want to
go back before we go forward. Opening for Black Sabbath.
(11:21):
I didn't know that you opened for Black Sabbath. That
seems like it would be almost a conflict of sounds,
but it wasn't. So can you talk about that experience.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
So we we had the same management and that was
our first tour of America, so literally before we went on,
but you know, we announced, you know, the whoever it
was announced his gentle giant. That'd be a big boo.
I mean, you know, we had but but generally across
(11:50):
the board on that first tour, because we had been
in the band, we were able to sort of before that,
uh you know know how this sort of WoT woo
an audience who was who were anti ant ethical against you.
We be able, we've been able and we had been
able to get them on our side at the end
(12:12):
of the set for the most part. So you know,
it was a it was a tough tour, but nevertheless
it was a great tour because we were we were
in front of twenty thousand kids all over America. But
that lasted until the end of the end of the
tour was uh the Hollywood Bowl Show, where again we
were booed very heartily and at the one point in
(12:37):
the show, which is pretty well known, someone threw a
firecracker cherry bomb on stage and we did something that
no band should ever do. We stopped playing. And it's
a story which has been clothed over and over, but
it's it's it's something that is indelible in my head,
(12:59):
that something you never do. But me and my brother Phil,
who was in the band at that point, went up
to the mic and I kind of politely said, hey, guys,
this is really pretty uncol to do that. That's you know,
that's not let's let us play our set. However, my
brother Phil was a little more, a little less articulate
(13:19):
and basically said, you guys are a bunch of c
dot dot dot t s And that boo that went
up was spectacular. I mean, it was no superb boo
you could have. And then we went back to Warston
and finished our set and that was it for La
for for that Sabbath show. But at the very same show,
(13:42):
this story because there's these are stories again which I
had bullet points on that I had to tell because
they were so funny, so funny, but also things that
you have to be there to experience. At the very
same show, Tony Iomi. Uh, they were at that point
in their careers. The Sabbath they were doing. I mean,
(14:06):
the level of debauchery was was it was. This was
on eleven and uh, Tony basically collapsed on stage and
the crowd thought, you know, literally and his guitar was
feeding back. I mean it was it was like but
the crowd were going apesient they thought it was part
(14:27):
of the show. Yeah, a couple of minutes went by,
five minutes went by, seven birds went by, and he
was still like flat out. The road Is eventually brought
him back up to life and propped him against the
amph but but then they stopped the show and that
was it for them. Uh So that was our Black
Sabbath touring experience. But we were with the same management,
(14:50):
so it was it was. It was quite an experience,
to be honest with you.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
It sounds like it and uh, we'll get into my
theme of the podcast later. But I mean, you may
know Axles things thrown at him on stage and he
stopped the show. That's happened, or he's just like, you
do it again. We're stopping the show. So I can
understand that.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
I mean that, but you know that's something we had
never done. As you know, we had a history before
we had I was in a band that we were
very popular in Europe, and we toured and toured and
and our I guess, our chops and an understanding of
an audience would generally come through, uh and and be
(15:35):
able to overcome any kind of you know, situation that
we were in at that point. But that at that
very point, they are sort of a.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Spirit broke you like, uh yeah, I can only imagine
how tough that is, especially when you've already had success
and you're like, wait, what what's going on here? Did
the I don't know if it would have happened, given
the level of debauchery of Sabbath that the time, But
did they try to say, hey, guys, you know we
we like you, keep doing what you're doing. Did they
(16:07):
show you any sort of support?
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Oh? Absolutely? Okay. You know we were friends, I mean,
absolut yeah, we were. We had the same manager, as
I said, and we had and we were friends. We
loved we loved the group, I mean they loved us.
I mean Ozzie they used to sound stand on the
side of the stage and Ousie, you know, Bristain piece.
Uh he used to say, Man, you guys are so great.
(16:30):
You know, I wish you'd cut you tool where, you know,
come on tour with us everywhere. And you know, having
had that experience, it wouldn't be a very good idea
that too morphed into the Jefro tolls were as supporting them,
and that was a lot better of a different experience.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I gotcha. And before we do the flip to the
A and R side, because all this is such great
uh foundation to teach artists later on, which is just
very rare. That's kind of what your story is about.
Do you have any because it's topical and as you
mentioned your rest in piece Ozzie, do you have any
specific or a very fun memory with him or a
(17:07):
fun funny story that anything that sticks out when you
think about Ozzie and a personal experience.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Well, yeah, there was one in particular where it's not
not a fun experience, but it was certainly one where
I remember Ozzy uh uh with our management company and
we had the same managers, and I found out that
we were both getting ripped off and we we together
(17:36):
with another couple of bands that they were handling. Edgar
Broughton was one whether or heard of them and the groundhogs.
We all got in the room together with the management
and and I said, I told them, I was told
by our road manager who worked for the company, that
we were getting ripped off, but they were getting even
(17:58):
more ripped off. Anyway, we had a meeting in their
office in London. Excuse me and Tony who said that
we heard that we're not getting what we're doing. And
in fact, from what we understood, our houses and cars
(18:20):
in our names don't belong to us. And the management said,
well that's not quite true. You know, there's a meat,
there's there's there's really a company that that hands everything.
And Ozzie said, just tell me the truth. Do our
houses and cars and our music belonged to us? And
the father said, well, actually no, they belonged to us.
(18:42):
And Ozzie had a bottle of scotch which he's half drunk,
and said, you mother, and through the bottle of scotch
right that this the father missed him Black Quarter Village
and hit it in the back of the wall and
smashed everywhere, and we we all trooped out of that room.
I mean, it was a very unpleasant situation. And unfortunately
(19:06):
they were, they still are. Unfortunately they don't own their
first four records. I was we were able to get
out of our deal Capital Capital records financing our situation,
but yeah, they were badly ripped off.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
God blessed Ozzie. I mean, not like I want to.
I want to be a good dad role model. I
don't want to condone throwing uh, you know, liquor bottles.
But I can understand the frustration anger. I get it.
So Ozzie, rest in peace, buddy, Jesus, I appreciate you sharing.
That's that story. What about to make the pivot into
the A and R? And how do you find bon Jovie?
I mean the stones throw New Jersey here from New York.
(19:44):
How did that? I'm sure a story you probably told
us several times. How did that come about?
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Well? I've heard, you know, the song run Away on
the radio, and I was introduced by an agent U sorry,
an attorney at the very same time as I heard
that song on the radio, and he gave me this
demo of four songs by a king called Johnny bon Jovi.
(20:13):
And I heard this track. It was on a sampler
on W A P P. And I kept listening to
and hearing it, and I wondered who it was. And
then literally in that same week, this attorney came up
and said, this kid is putting a band together. And
so I was interested in I want to find it,
wanted to find out a little more. You know, I
(20:35):
met John and he was just literally putting his band together,
and he was He walked into my office and I
mean he could he had he had it it. I mean,
this is something that you see every five years, of
every ten years, someone who who has who has the charisma,
(20:59):
who has who has everything going for them? But you know,
he was just starting out musically. Anyway. The bottom line
is I'd heard the demos and he was putting this
band together. I saw a couple of shows and they
were really good, but not great. And I sat down
with him and then and then before I did, I
sat down with him and I said, John, what is it?
(21:21):
What is it that you want to be? I mean,
number one? Who do you who? Who is what band
do you want to be like? You know? So I
don't want to be like anyone else. I want to
be bigger than Elvis. And I looked at them and
I believe he was. He was absolutely absolutely focused on
(21:43):
his intention of of having his music and himself be
uh as big as he began. So I when he
said that, I went to meet his parents, you know,
which is a crazy thing, and and his mom and
dad trusted me, but having been a musician, and I said, look,
(22:05):
I'll take I will look after him, Carol. His mother
said look after him, and I did. And basically I
saw him through the first couple of albums into into
the third album where I introduced him to Desmond Child,
and Desmond you know, uh worked with john and Ritchie,
(22:26):
went to the studio in Vancouver with Bruce Fairborne and
Bob Rock and two and a half till three years
after I've signed him Supper when that came out and
bon Jovi was the biggest artist in the world.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, I mean undeniable Desmond Child. I'm
very fortunate to have had him on the podcast as well.
And while it's in my head kind of almost like
this a segue with my theme in gn R and
since you knew when he was Johnny bon Jovi, and
here's where I'm going with with this is with the
(23:02):
voice in aging. That's how we started out this conversation
you know, John Manjovi has been pretty open and I
think pretty brave about how his voice is now. And
you know a lot of people were talking about that
with Axel obviously on this podcast. I've talked about that, right,
you know, you knowing John helping him get signed from
(23:22):
the beginning when his voice is at its peak till now.
I mean, how do you look at something like that.
I feel like it's so much perspective. Where we're in
a society now where everything is on social media. You
could focus in and say this is wrong. They're not
like that they used to be. I don't where all
this is gonna happen to all of us. I don't
want to jump on that train of hating on bon
(23:43):
Jovi or David Lee Roth or Axel or any of
these people, just for aging. How do you feel about that,
having known John basically since he got signed.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Well, what I would say, I mean, I don't. I
think it's something that John, as you said, has been
very public about. But for me, it's a little weird
to to talk about this because I have to get
back to the gentle Giant era and when they stopped
and why we would never reform and we had lots
(24:15):
of other We had lots of uh offers to reform,
to do tours for lots and lots of money. And
one thing I would never do, and I don't think
any of the band would would like to be, is
either a tribute band or legacy band or a band
that you know, we're trying to get into some thirty
(24:36):
thirty waists when you're when you're in the know, your
your dad bought uh uh and and become parodies of
what you were. And and that's something I feel a
little odd about. It really hurts me to see artists
(24:56):
trying to be who they were as when they were
younger and and not being able to put it off.
And they should not try. I don't really, you know,
I I don't know. I mean, I feel uncomfortable in
watching John try to be what he was thirty years ago.
But if he said that now, which is which is good.
(25:18):
He's public about it. But I've seen other artists, you know,
as you mentioned a couple of a couple of others
you know, and seeing someone on YouTube that I won't
even mention, it's embarrassing to me that they would that
they would present themselves in a way that that is
(25:38):
not how they used to be, and I don't know
why they're doing it.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I guess the question that I have with that because
you know, my grandfather was not a musician. He was
a pharmacist for fifty years and he didn't want to retire,
like he just had to retire. Sometimes I feel that
way about musicians. And obviously you can tell me better
than me just projecting as a fan. You don't know
you don't want to retire. So is it just a
(26:04):
matter of knowing your limitations and pivoting and seeing what
works for you, because I compared sometimes to an athlete
that you're throwing fastballs one year and then you can't
throw as fast, so you got to be you know,
just change the way your your approach to things. Or
is it just I hate the fans call for retirement.
I don't watch it to retire if you still like
(26:26):
doing it. But I know that's that's just how I feel.
But I get what you're saying because a lot of
fans feel that way. So yeah, I know that's my
jumpolt question.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
No, it's it's a good point. And and uh, I
certainly you know, don't want to disrepect any any band
or any artists that that needs to be on stage
and it needs to be the ones to continue to be,
you know, a musician and a singer, but you know,
understanding of their limitations that that's the point. And I
(26:59):
you know, I couldn't do it. I mean, I just wouldn't.
I wouldn't do it because you know, I look back
and you know, and I look back into what I've done,
and that was when what I did. It's not what
I'm going to do. There are always things you can do,
you know, in the future. You don't have to be
the same as you did you were twenty or thirty
(27:21):
years ago. So you know, when I see you know,
actually you mentioned actually I can mention twenty five other
you know cigarets. You know. It's it's it's not it's
I don't know. I I I understand the need for
perhaps making a living, I don't know. I mean, if
(27:41):
that's if that's the reason, I understand. If if it's
if it's for a need too for attention to be
or for for relevance, that's that's that's is it's sad.
And I think that's really something I couldn't be and do.
(28:04):
And I think as a musician, as someone who was
in the band that stopped the band and didn't reform.
And I think our catalog and our our music that
we've made over the years still has relevance because we
didn't try to be someone else in the eighties and
nineties and the thousands, and we stopped when we were
(28:28):
at a height, and our music is sor retained, is
I guess, relevance and legacy. I'm just I'm just spouting
off here right now.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
And no, I appreciate and respect this opinion, of course,
because you again you've played, you know, a success musician
and as you said, the Darth Vader side of things.
So I respect your opinion because I don't want to
be biased and just have look at life through guns
and roses colored glasses and just being like, oh, because
they're my favorite. But I guess it's just I've been
(28:54):
seeing videos of Davily Roth recently, and it's just he
looks like he's having fun, and you can see fans
just being like showing a video of them, like making
fun of them. I'm just like, they still have a legacy,
and so I guess that's why it bothers me. I
understand what you're saying that you need to know when
to either stop or change what you're doing or do
(29:15):
something else. But I think this is a lot of
fans are having too much fun at some of these
religious expense that's it.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yeah, that's true, You're right. I mean to make fun
of them is a whole different thing. That's that's not cool.
But again, at the artists themselves, they have to realize
that they're not the same person, and they're not the
same person as they were thirty years ago. So you know, okay,
have fun, but at least be self self deprecating at
(29:44):
the same time. Yeah. Yeah, so that's the point that
you should be. Look, look, I'm not the same as John.
I mean, John has been open about Hey, listen, my
voice is not working as it used to be. I'm honest.
I'm being honest with you. So that's what's That's what
you're going to hear or not. I mean, I don't
think he's even touring right now.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
I don't. I don't think so. I mean, I can
only imagine how frustrating that is. But again, we can
we can go on and on about this, but I
want to ask because I want to keep you here forever.
I don't know if any of this what we're talking
about now parlayed into you helping a C d C
get back into the fold. Can you tell us that story,
because they weren't that then. They were kind of falling
(30:24):
off at the time, and you help them kind of
get back into the scene. So if you can just
talk about that a little, because obviously I'm a huge
DC DC fan as well, me too.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
And that's why I uh, I was running at CO
at the time, and they were signed to Atlantic and
Atlantic was going to drop them, you know, they said there,
it's a big deal, and the previous two albums before
I worked with them had really fallen off the map.
(30:53):
And I said to the head of Atlantic, Doug Morris,
don't help drop. I'll tell you what I inherited. A
couple of bands, artists, should I say, Steve Ennix and
Pete Townsend. And I said, look, I've got ste V Nix.
I'll tell you what I'll you. I'll work with a
ceas you can have Steve Enix and so a CDC
(31:19):
apparently were very uh insular and didn't want anyone from
Recall being involved. They hated that that piece of the
business anyone in the studio. From what I heard, this
is all the stuff that i'd heard about. However, I
got a leg up from their elder brother, George, who
was in the bank called the Easy Beats and had
(31:40):
recorded them back in the day with Harry Vander, and
he said to Malcolm and Angus, if it's the same
Derek Shulman that was in Simon dping a big sound,
then you could trust him. He's call he's a musician.
So I was let in the door to Malcolm and
Angus's world, and so they let me hear some of
(32:01):
the demos and they were great. So I said, okay,
we're going to get you to my favorite producers in Vancouver,
Bruce Fabron and Bob Rock, and we sent the demos
over them and I said, this is fantastic. And I said,
you want to produce this album? And I said, of course.
So we went to Vancouver. I was in the studio
(32:23):
with them for you know, throughout the whole time, and
even though I was running a company, and at the
end of the sessions we had the Razor's Edge and
the first sim came out and it was Sunderstruck and
acc was back.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Wow, I mean just to come back with that, and
my god, your a resume. Man. I'm so glad you
put this all down in a book because the back
of your you know, hypothetical baseball card would just be
too long. It would just be too long. All this
and all the stats. I know, we kind of danced
around the subject. I've gun to Roses a bit, but
and I told them to warn you. You know, if
(33:00):
I I don't know if you have any what I
call six degrees of gn R bacon, if you met
any of the guys over your time, or any saw
them in concert. I just kind of what I do
here in uh instead of being a typical podcast uh
little gn R flavor. So I'm not sure if any connections.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
You got, uh not really actually G and R.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
What you thought about them, I guess maybe at the
time because you were you were a A A and
R when appetite came in.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
I was running that coat think at that time, and uh,
I thought they were great. I mean I thought they
were obviously in LA they were a phenomenon, and uh,
but I was I was never a sunset strip kind
of guy, to be honest with you, That's fair That's
that's the truth. You know. I was in New York
(33:50):
and I you know, bon jove I had Cinderella, I
had you know, bands from you know, a c there were.
I was more europe East Coast. Uh. That that's something
was interesting. I was never the part of the strip,
you know kind of thing. So the Van Haylens I loved,
but that wasn't my thing. It was it was other
(34:11):
other labels and all the bands things and not mine.
So I never really got involved in that world, even
though there was one you know, I went Great White
was was starting to make noise. I I was. I
was thinking about signing them back in the day. I
didn't because I was I think I was working with
bon Jovia, Centerroll both at the same time, and I thought, man,
(34:34):
I'm going to be overloaded. But I was never a
sunset strip kind of guy, and but I thought there
were you know, they they had an incredible run. I personally,
I was never a major fan, but I certainly understood
that what they had in Axelent and and Slash and
(34:55):
you know they was was huge and and they certainly
made a big difference in the world right on.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
And obviously being a New Yorker. I have no problem
with you being an East Coast guy. You know, I
talk about bands in LA. I still have yet to
be to go to the West Coast, so East Coast
is my thing. And UH, I finally made my first
trip to the UK a couple of years ago. I
went to Abbey Road Studios and yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
We recorded all our first band, of my first band,
every single was recorded Abbey Road.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Wow, that's so that's so cool. And my son, I'm sorry,
you'll meet him next time. We had to get him
out of here to go to the park because he
was freaking out. But at for his first birthday, we
walked across Abbey Road. So that's why I mean again
your history. Just to get some to talk to you
a little bit, to hear some of your stories. I
really appreciate it. UH and everybody can hear Giant and
(35:49):
read Giant Steps. My probable journey from UH Stage Lights
to Executive Heights coming out October seventh. Is there gonna
be audiobook? I'm not. I don't see any information.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
They will be a coming but not hasn't been put
into UH into action yet, but there will be one.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yeah, and you'll be reading it apparently. Yes, okay, I
look for you. I enjoy your voice. You know you
joked around before nobody can understand you. I can understand.
I understood every other than our technical glitches, which I
will edit out, and probably people have no idea what
I'm talking about. I've understood every single word you said.
So uh, Derek is thank you so much for your
(36:29):
time today, and I hope we get to do this again.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Absolutely, it's been great.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Thank you. So that does it for this episode of
Appetite for Distortion. When we see the next one. In
the words of Axel Rose, concerning Chinese democracy, I don't
know as soon as the word, but you'll see.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
It thanks to the lame as security. I'm going home,
What they had in excellent and slash, and they certainly
made a big difference in the world.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to the podcast Appetite for Distortion, Episode number five
hundred and thirty. My name is Brando. Welcome to the
podcast a music icon. I think that's so fair to say.
Derek Shulman, how are you today, sir?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
I'm doing pretty well, thank you, considering my age and
the situation. Fine, all good, Thank you age.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I don't want to Maybe I should reveal because you
were watching this on YouTube because I do audio and video,
you might see my birthday sign behind me. I just
turned as we're taping this.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Oh yes, I didn't, Yes, I wow, happy birthday, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I turned. I'm not doing this to get happy birthday wishes.
I'm not like that. But it's my wife decided to
decorate my home studio and my birthday was yesterday. I
just turned forty two as we're taping this. And now
I'm just leaving them up because my son, who I
warned you about, who may interrupt the beginning of this interview,
likes he loves his numbers and his letters, so he said,
(01:08):
pe I are so let me let me leave them up.
So I just want to let you know that I'm
not some ego and having like a birthday week or
a birthday month. My son likes letters. My wife designed
this just so I feel old at forty two. This
is a nice little segue into everything because you have
lived quite a life. You have lived quite a life.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yes, I certainly have, and hopefully I'm I wake up
in the morning of saying thank Golf of that.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
So I this is all put them down finally in
a memoir, giant steps, my improbable journey from stage lights
to executive heights. So I don't know if you hear
him screaming in the background, Harrison, how do I tell him? Well,
I do I even begin to start the Derek Shulman
story when I tell him that eventually, let.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Me think here, tell him that this old guy who's
living in Manhattan, British was a British singer and an
executive that to be a good boy and to be
good to everyone, and also for his parents to be
(02:18):
good to him.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
So you're in Manhattan right now? Whereabouts?
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Yeap of the website here?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Oh? Okay, as I told you before, I'm in Queen's.
One of these days, I told you. I'm in a
home studio. When my son is old enough, I want
to have people come to the house and interview them.
So maybe in the future if you come back on,
I'll invite you over. You hang out with Harrison and
we'll do an interview. But I digress. So if you're
unfamiliar with Derek, I mean you should be, and maybe
(02:46):
it depends on your age. He's putting out Giant Steps,
an eye opening memoir that traces your extraordinary journey from
music from the nineteen sixties, the pop fame with Simon
dupri and the Big Sound, to cult status as the
front man and of a one of the pioneers of
aggressive rock gentle giants. And then you really had like
(03:06):
a second career like which arguably more even more successful
as a record executive A and R signing acts like
bon Jovi, Dream Theater, Slip Knot. You know you're you're
dealt with A C, d C and Bad Company and
Black sat You know your history goes back so far.
So when did you decide to write this book? Because
(03:26):
this must have been swimming in your head for a while,
all these stories, well.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
The sys have been swimming a minute because they're they're
the risks real, and they're all part of my experiences.
I was cajoled by a friend of mine, a friend
of ours, uh my wife's in ours, who was the
book editor of the New York Times, uh, a guy
called Jack Schwartz, And I tell him the story. We
(03:52):
get together for dinner occasionally and I tell him stories
about you know, I remember when Elton John was reg
and I it he was in the band, and then
tell him that stories about being on tour with Sabbath,
and then stories about you know this and that which
is in the book. And he said, you know, you
should really write a book about this. And I said, Jack,
(04:12):
I'm not a writer. I'm I've been an executive. I've
been a musician. But he said, all you have to
do is sit down a couple for a couple of
hours put that aside. And I said, And this went
on for a couple of years in the like before
two thousands, around before COVID, and he could joel me
into saying, look, just just put aside, you know, an
(04:34):
hour or two, put everything and start writing, which I
did before COVID in like twenty nineteen. But honestly, I
was not very good at putting that time aside. I'd
pick up the phone and I'd get I'd get sidetracked
by we're doing a remix of this, And so I wrote,
(04:55):
you know, maybe like about fifty pages. That took That
took me six months. And uh, then COVID it. And
I got COVID right at the beginning, very early on.
I mean, I was one of the first to get it.
And I dodged a bullet effectively. And I was isolated
(05:17):
in my bedroom for six weeks and I had all
I had was my TV with the Cuomo saying You're
gonna be okay, and and uh, but my laptop, and
I felt lousy. But nevertheless, I thought, well, let me
just start. I had nothing else to do except moaned
(05:40):
and grown moaned and growned into the laptop. It started
rewriting the book, and that's how I got back into it.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Do you find you guys you're spending the time? Do
you find yourself? Was it difficult at that point to
tell your story? Or was it starting to flow once
found the time?
Speaker 1 (06:03):
It? Well, actually, all what I did was I put
the points which are very very memorable in in a
in a in various sections of my life. Just these
you know, these bullet points everything like that are that
are sort of milestones in my life. And then I started,
you know, going through how to how to describe them
(06:26):
and and to be honest with you, the beginning of
the book was when I was feeling pretty loudly from
COVID and and in fact, that's why it kind of
starts with a bit of a not a bit. It
was a bad situation where my father died in my arms,
and that's when I had COVID and and and it's
(06:48):
also it also affected the rest of my life. Yeah,
both you know, health mentally health wise because that gave
me some kind of pe psd of health anxieties and
also knowing that I should be more aware about how
(07:10):
he was a smoker and a drinker, but also a
fantastic father and a great musician. But how to live
my life because of that that situation that happened, that
he would drop dead in my arms, on my brother's arms.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Oh my god, I'm so sorry that that that happened,
you know, that's that's so it must have been. I'm
assuming it was a cathartic then to start getting these
things down for your life and to change your life,
you know, with get your life down on paper and
also change your life in reality. So it must have
been quite the change for you because it's got to
(07:45):
be a memoir is a daunting task. I can't even imagine,
because it's like, are you at this point of your
life where you could tell your stories? It's is there
any sort of hesitation where because you're still a busy guy?
You know, that's it? You know, is there any sort
of hesitation to be like, Okay, am I almost putting
a period at the end of my life? Or no,
this is just I'm getting this out here so everybody
(08:07):
knows about me before it's too late.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Well there, there is, Well there is that I mean,
But no, I never I never really thought thought of that.
It was certainly the what I told you of. First
of all, that I was cajoled by someone who I
admired as a person who unfortunately passed away himself of
COVID a couple of years ago, which is terrible to say,
but cajoled into into start to start to write. And
(08:35):
even you know, I was a lyric writer in the band,
so you know I was a decent you know, word
smith if you like not speaking because no one could
understand me. Uh, but certainly writing wise, you know, I
kind of liked it and enjoyed putting words together. Uh.
And I figured during that period where there was a lockdown,
I start putting it together, even though yeah, I still
(08:59):
have scenes to do and want to do. But you
know the fact that he found it interesting as a journalist,
I figured, Okay, maybe a couple of other people would
find it and it's interesting too.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Well, one of the most fun stories. I guess to
kind of pivot because you were talking about COVID and death.
Let's pivot to the goods and some fun stuff. And
because I want people to read and go through all
the emotions, you know. And I will say, I got
an email this morning that we're sending you the book today,
the interviews today, but I'm pretty sure send it to me.
(09:31):
But I got to watch the trailer and some excerpts,
so I mean I got a little bit of a
of a taste of every you know, the cool stuff.
So what do you what were you really excited to
get down on Panda paper and you can't wait for
people to read about your story?
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Well, across the boards, it's about music. It's about being authentic.
It's about being surrounded by music all of my life
and the fact that I was lucky enough, I'd have
been lucky enough to be both a musician, presenting myself
on stage and writing and being creative in both the
(10:12):
as a musician and as on the other side of
the fence I say, executive, but as a as a
record guy, trying to keep that that authenticity, if you
like U in intact and being integrals as in that
part of my life as well, so but keeping that
(10:32):
as uh as authentic as I could, and helping other
artists on the Darth Vader side, if you like two
two be as you know, as you know, being able
to help them become as big as they could, uh,
(10:54):
giving given them, giving them my experiences from my prior life.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
If you like what I'm really wondering about before we
go into the A and R stuff, because I'm really
curious about what you brought the bond Jovi and Slipknot.
That's so cool and it shows you the the Swiss
army knife of talent and genres that you have, and
that kind of goes back to so I want to
go back before we go forward. Opening for Black Sabbath.
(11:21):
I didn't know that you opened for Black Sabbath. That
seems like it would be almost a conflict of sounds,
but it wasn't. So can you talk about that experience.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
So we we had the same management and that was
our first tour of America, so literally before we went on,
but you know, we announced, you know, the whoever it
was announced his gentle giant. That'd be a big boo.
I mean, you know, we had but but generally across
(11:50):
the board on that first tour, because we had been
in the band, we were able to sort of before that,
uh you know know how this sort of WoT woo
an audience who was who were anti ant ethical against you.
We be able, we've been able and we had been
able to get them on our side at the end
(12:12):
of the set for the most part. So you know,
it was a it was a tough tour, but nevertheless
it was a great tour because we were we were
in front of twenty thousand kids all over America. But
that lasted until the end of the end of the
tour was uh the Hollywood Bowl Show, where again we
were booed very heartily and at the one point in
(12:37):
the show, which is pretty well known, someone threw a
firecracker cherry bomb on stage and we did something that
no band should ever do. We stopped playing. And it's
a story which has been clothed over and over, but
it's it's it's something that is indelible in my head,
(12:59):
that something you never do. But me and my brother Phil,
who was in the band at that point, went up
to the mic and I kind of politely said, hey, guys,
this is really pretty uncol to do that. That's you know,
that's not let's let us play our set. However, my
brother Phil was a little more, a little less articulate
(13:19):
and basically said, you guys are a bunch of c
dot dot dot t s And that boo that went
up was spectacular. I mean, it was no superb boo
you could have. And then we went back to Warston
and finished our set and that was it for La
for for that Sabbath show. But at the very same show,
(13:42):
this story because there's these are stories again which I
had bullet points on that I had to tell because
they were so funny, so funny, but also things that
you have to be there to experience. At the very
same show, Tony Iomi. Uh, they were at that point
in their careers. The Sabbath they were doing. I mean,
(14:06):
the level of debauchery was was it was. This was
on eleven and uh, Tony basically collapsed on stage and
the crowd thought, you know, literally and his guitar was
feeding back. I mean it was it was like but
the crowd were going apesient they thought it was part
(14:27):
of the show. Yeah, a couple of minutes went by,
five minutes went by, seven birds went by, and he
was still like flat out. The road Is eventually brought
him back up to life and propped him against the
amph but but then they stopped the show and that
was it for them. Uh So that was our Black
Sabbath touring experience. But we were with the same management,
(14:50):
so it was it was. It was quite an experience,
to be honest with you.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
It sounds like it and uh, we'll get into my
theme of the podcast later. But I mean, you may
know Axles things thrown at him on stage and he
stopped the show. That's happened, or he's just like, you
do it again. We're stopping the show. So I can
understand that.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
I mean that, but you know that's something we had
never done. As you know, we had a history before
we had I was in a band that we were
very popular in Europe, and we toured and toured and
and our I guess, our chops and an understanding of
an audience would generally come through, uh and and be
(15:35):
able to overcome any kind of you know, situation that
we were in at that point. But that at that
very point, they are sort of a.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Spirit broke you like, uh yeah, I can only imagine
how tough that is, especially when you've already had success
and you're like, wait, what what's going on here? Did
the I don't know if it would have happened, given
the level of debauchery of Sabbath that the time, But
did they try to say, hey, guys, you know we
we like you, keep doing what you're doing. Did they
(16:07):
show you any sort of support?
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Oh? Absolutely? Okay. You know we were friends, I mean,
absolut yeah, we were. We had the same manager, as
I said, and we had and we were friends. We
loved we loved the group, I mean they loved us.
I mean Ozzie they used to sound stand on the
side of the stage and Ousie, you know, Bristain piece.
Uh he used to say, Man, you guys are so great.
(16:30):
You know, I wish you'd cut you tool where, you know,
come on tour with us everywhere. And you know, having
had that experience, it wouldn't be a very good idea
that too morphed into the Jefro tolls were as supporting them,
and that was a lot better of a different experience.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I gotcha. And before we do the flip to the
A and R side, because all this is such great
uh foundation to teach artists later on, which is just
very rare. That's kind of what your story is about.
Do you have any because it's topical and as you
mentioned your rest in piece Ozzie, do you have any
specific or a very fun memory with him or a
(17:07):
fun funny story that anything that sticks out when you
think about Ozzie and a personal experience.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Well, yeah, there was one in particular where it's not
not a fun experience, but it was certainly one where
I remember Ozzy uh uh with our management company and
we had the same managers, and I found out that
we were both getting ripped off and we we together
(17:36):
with another couple of bands that they were handling. Edgar
Broughton was one whether or heard of them and the groundhogs.
We all got in the room together with the management
and and I said, I told them, I was told
by our road manager who worked for the company, that
we were getting ripped off, but they were getting even
(17:58):
more ripped off. Anyway, we had a meeting in their
office in London. Excuse me and Tony who said that
we heard that we're not getting what we're doing. And
in fact, from what we understood, our houses and cars
(18:20):
in our names don't belong to us. And the management said,
well that's not quite true. You know, there's a meat,
there's there's there's really a company that that hands everything.
And Ozzie said, just tell me the truth. Do our
houses and cars and our music belonged to us? And
the father said, well, actually no, they belonged to us.
(18:42):
And Ozzie had a bottle of scotch which he's half drunk,
and said, you mother, and through the bottle of scotch
right that this the father missed him Black Quarter Village
and hit it in the back of the wall and
smashed everywhere, and we we all trooped out of that room.
I mean, it was a very unpleasant situation. And unfortunately
(19:06):
they were, they still are. Unfortunately they don't own their
first four records. I was we were able to get
out of our deal Capital Capital records financing our situation,
but yeah, they were badly ripped off.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
God blessed Ozzie. I mean, not like I want to.
I want to be a good dad role model. I
don't want to condone throwing uh, you know, liquor bottles.
But I can understand the frustration anger. I get it.
So Ozzie, rest in peace, buddy, Jesus, I appreciate you sharing.
That's that story. What about to make the pivot into
the A and R? And how do you find bon Jovie?
I mean the stones throw New Jersey here from New York.
(19:44):
How did that? I'm sure a story you probably told
us several times. How did that come about?
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Well? I've heard, you know, the song run Away on
the radio, and I was introduced by an agent U sorry,
an attorney at the very same time as I heard
that song on the radio, and he gave me this
demo of four songs by a king called Johnny bon Jovi.
(20:13):
And I heard this track. It was on a sampler
on W A P P. And I kept listening to
and hearing it, and I wondered who it was. And
then literally in that same week, this attorney came up
and said, this kid is putting a band together. And
so I was interested in I want to find it,
wanted to find out a little more. You know, I
(20:35):
met John and he was just literally putting his band together,
and he was He walked into my office and I
mean he could he had he had it it. I mean,
this is something that you see every five years, of
every ten years, someone who who has who has the charisma,
(20:59):
who has who has everything going for them? But you know,
he was just starting out musically. Anyway. The bottom line
is I'd heard the demos and he was putting this
band together. I saw a couple of shows and they
were really good, but not great. And I sat down
with him and then and then before I did, I
sat down with him and I said, John, what is it?
(21:21):
What is it that you want to be? I mean,
number one? Who do you who? Who is what band
do you want to be like? You know? So I
don't want to be like anyone else. I want to
be bigger than Elvis. And I looked at them and
I believe he was. He was absolutely absolutely focused on
(21:43):
his intention of of having his music and himself be
uh as big as he began. So I when he
said that, I went to meet his parents, you know,
which is a crazy thing, and and his mom and
dad trusted me, but having been a musician, and I said, look,
(22:05):
I'll take I will look after him, Carol. His mother
said look after him, and I did. And basically I
saw him through the first couple of albums into into
the third album where I introduced him to Desmond Child,
and Desmond you know, uh worked with john and Ritchie,
(22:26):
went to the studio in Vancouver with Bruce Fairborne and
Bob Rock and two and a half till three years
after I've signed him Supper when that came out and
bon Jovi was the biggest artist in the world.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, I mean undeniable Desmond Child. I'm
very fortunate to have had him on the podcast as well.
And while it's in my head kind of almost like
this a segue with my theme in gn R and
since you knew when he was Johnny bon Jovi, and
here's where I'm going with with this is with the
(23:02):
voice in aging. That's how we started out this conversation
you know, John Manjovi has been pretty open and I
think pretty brave about how his voice is now. And
you know a lot of people were talking about that
with Axel obviously on this podcast. I've talked about that, right,
you know, you knowing John helping him get signed from
(23:22):
the beginning when his voice is at its peak till now.
I mean, how do you look at something like that.
I feel like it's so much perspective. Where we're in
a society now where everything is on social media. You
could focus in and say this is wrong. They're not
like that they used to be. I don't where all
this is gonna happen to all of us. I don't
want to jump on that train of hating on bon
(23:43):
Jovi or David Lee Roth or Axel or any of
these people, just for aging. How do you feel about that,
having known John basically since he got signed.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Well, what I would say, I mean, I don't. I
think it's something that John, as you said, has been
very public about. But for me, it's a little weird
to to talk about this because I have to get
back to the gentle Giant era and when they stopped
and why we would never reform and we had lots
(24:15):
of other We had lots of uh offers to reform,
to do tours for lots and lots of money. And
one thing I would never do, and I don't think
any of the band would would like to be, is
either a tribute band or legacy band or a band
that you know, we're trying to get into some thirty
(24:36):
thirty waists when you're when you're in the know, your
your dad bought uh uh and and become parodies of
what you were. And and that's something I feel a
little odd about. It really hurts me to see artists
(24:56):
trying to be who they were as when they were
younger and and not being able to put it off.
And they should not try. I don't really, you know,
I I don't know. I mean, I feel uncomfortable in
watching John try to be what he was thirty years ago.
But if he said that now, which is which is good.
(25:18):
He's public about it. But I've seen other artists, you know,
as you mentioned a couple of a couple of others
you know, and seeing someone on YouTube that I won't
even mention, it's embarrassing to me that they would that
they would present themselves in a way that that is
(25:38):
not how they used to be, and I don't know
why they're doing it.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I guess the question that I have with that because
you know, my grandfather was not a musician. He was
a pharmacist for fifty years and he didn't want to retire,
like he just had to retire. Sometimes I feel that
way about musicians. And obviously you can tell me better
than me just projecting as a fan. You don't know
you don't want to retire. So is it just a
(26:04):
matter of knowing your limitations and pivoting and seeing what
works for you, because I compared sometimes to an athlete
that you're throwing fastballs one year and then you can't
throw as fast, so you got to be you know,
just change the way your your approach to things. Or
is it just I hate the fans call for retirement.
I don't watch it to retire if you still like
(26:26):
doing it. But I know that's that's just how I feel.
But I get what you're saying because a lot of
fans feel that way. So yeah, I know that's my
jumpolt question.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
No, it's it's a good point. And and uh, I
certainly you know, don't want to disrepect any any band
or any artists that that needs to be on stage
and it needs to be the ones to continue to be,
you know, a musician and a singer, but you know,
understanding of their limitations that that's the point. And I
(26:59):
you know, I couldn't do it. I mean, I just wouldn't.
I wouldn't do it because you know, I look back
and you know, and I look back into what I've done,
and that was when what I did. It's not what
I'm going to do. There are always things you can do,
you know, in the future. You don't have to be
the same as you did you were twenty or thirty
(27:21):
years ago. So you know, when I see you know,
actually you mentioned actually I can mention twenty five other
you know cigarets. You know. It's it's it's not it's
I don't know. I I I understand the need for
perhaps making a living, I don't know. I mean, if
(27:41):
that's if that's the reason, I understand. If if it's
if it's for a need too for attention to be
or for for relevance, that's that's that's is it's sad.
And I think that's really something I couldn't be and do.
(28:04):
And I think as a musician, as someone who was
in the band that stopped the band and didn't reform.
And I think our catalog and our our music that
we've made over the years still has relevance because we
didn't try to be someone else in the eighties and
nineties and the thousands, and we stopped when we were
(28:28):
at a height, and our music is sor retained, is
I guess, relevance and legacy. I'm just I'm just spouting
off here right now.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
And no, I appreciate and respect this opinion, of course,
because you again you've played, you know, a success musician
and as you said, the Darth Vader side of things.
So I respect your opinion because I don't want to
be biased and just have look at life through guns
and roses colored glasses and just being like, oh, because
they're my favorite. But I guess it's just I've been
(28:54):
seeing videos of Davily Roth recently, and it's just he
looks like he's having fun, and you can see fans
just being like showing a video of them, like making
fun of them. I'm just like, they still have a legacy,
and so I guess that's why it bothers me. I
understand what you're saying that you need to know when
to either stop or change what you're doing or do
(29:15):
something else. But I think this is a lot of
fans are having too much fun at some of these
religious expense that's it.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yeah, that's true, You're right. I mean to make fun
of them is a whole different thing. That's that's not cool.
But again, at the artists themselves, they have to realize
that they're not the same person, and they're not the
same person as they were thirty years ago. So you know, okay,
have fun, but at least be self self deprecating at
(29:44):
the same time. Yeah. Yeah, so that's the point that
you should be. Look, look, I'm not the same as John.
I mean, John has been open about Hey, listen, my
voice is not working as it used to be. I'm honest.
I'm being honest with you. So that's what's That's what
you're going to hear or not. I mean, I don't
think he's even touring right now.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
I don't. I don't think so. I mean, I can
only imagine how frustrating that is. But again, we can
we can go on and on about this, but I
want to ask because I want to keep you here forever.
I don't know if any of this what we're talking
about now parlayed into you helping a C d C
get back into the fold. Can you tell us that story,
because they weren't that then. They were kind of falling
(30:24):
off at the time, and you help them kind of
get back into the scene. So if you can just
talk about that a little, because obviously I'm a huge
DC DC fan as well, me too.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
And that's why I uh, I was running at CO
at the time, and they were signed to Atlantic and
Atlantic was going to drop them, you know, they said there,
it's a big deal, and the previous two albums before
I worked with them had really fallen off the map.
(30:53):
And I said to the head of Atlantic, Doug Morris,
don't help drop. I'll tell you what I inherited. A
couple of bands, artists, should I say, Steve Ennix and
Pete Townsend. And I said, look, I've got ste V Nix.
I'll tell you what I'll you. I'll work with a
ceas you can have Steve Enix and so a CDC
(31:19):
apparently were very uh insular and didn't want anyone from
Recall being involved. They hated that that piece of the
business anyone in the studio. From what I heard, this
is all the stuff that i'd heard about. However, I
got a leg up from their elder brother, George, who
was in the bank called the Easy Beats and had
(31:40):
recorded them back in the day with Harry Vander, and
he said to Malcolm and Angus, if it's the same
Derek Shulman that was in Simon dping a big sound,
then you could trust him. He's call he's a musician.
So I was let in the door to Malcolm and
Angus's world, and so they let me hear some of
(32:01):
the demos and they were great. So I said, okay,
we're going to get you to my favorite producers in Vancouver,
Bruce Fabron and Bob Rock, and we sent the demos
over them and I said, this is fantastic. And I said,
you want to produce this album? And I said, of course.
So we went to Vancouver. I was in the studio
(32:23):
with them for you know, throughout the whole time, and
even though I was running a company, and at the
end of the sessions we had the Razor's Edge and
the first sim came out and it was Sunderstruck and
acc was back.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Wow, I mean just to come back with that, and
my god, your a resume. Man. I'm so glad you
put this all down in a book because the back
of your you know, hypothetical baseball card would just be
too long. It would just be too long. All this
and all the stats. I know, we kind of danced
around the subject. I've gun to Roses a bit, but
and I told them to warn you. You know, if
(33:00):
I I don't know if you have any what I
call six degrees of gn R bacon, if you met
any of the guys over your time, or any saw
them in concert. I just kind of what I do
here in uh instead of being a typical podcast uh
little gn R flavor. So I'm not sure if any connections.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
You got, uh not really actually G and R.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
What you thought about them, I guess maybe at the
time because you were you were a A A and
R when appetite came in.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
I was running that coat think at that time, and uh,
I thought they were great. I mean I thought they
were obviously in LA they were a phenomenon, and uh,
but I was I was never a sunset strip kind
of guy, to be honest with you, That's fair That's
that's the truth. You know. I was in New York
(33:50):
and I you know, bon jove I had Cinderella, I
had you know, bands from you know, a c there were.
I was more europe East Coast. Uh. That that's something
was interesting. I was never the part of the strip,
you know kind of thing. So the Van Haylens I loved,
but that wasn't my thing. It was it was other
(34:11):
other labels and all the bands things and not mine.
So I never really got involved in that world, even
though there was one you know, I went Great White
was was starting to make noise. I I was. I
was thinking about signing them back in the day. I
didn't because I was I think I was working with
bon Jovia, Centerroll both at the same time, and I thought, man,
(34:34):
I'm going to be overloaded. But I was never a
sunset strip kind of guy, and but I thought there
were you know, they they had an incredible run. I personally,
I was never a major fan, but I certainly understood
that what they had in Axelent and and Slash and
(34:55):
you know they was was huge and and they certainly
made a big difference in the world right on.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
And obviously being a New Yorker. I have no problem
with you being an East Coast guy. You know, I
talk about bands in LA. I still have yet to
be to go to the West Coast, so East Coast
is my thing. And UH, I finally made my first
trip to the UK a couple of years ago. I
went to Abbey Road Studios and yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
We recorded all our first band, of my first band,
every single was recorded Abbey Road.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Wow, that's so that's so cool. And my son, I'm sorry,
you'll meet him next time. We had to get him
out of here to go to the park because he
was freaking out. But at for his first birthday, we
walked across Abbey Road. So that's why I mean again
your history. Just to get some to talk to you
a little bit, to hear some of your stories. I
really appreciate it. UH and everybody can hear Giant and
(35:49):
read Giant Steps. My probable journey from UH Stage Lights
to Executive Heights coming out October seventh. Is there gonna
be audiobook? I'm not. I don't see any information.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
They will be a coming but not hasn't been put
into UH into action yet, but there will be one.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yeah, and you'll be reading it apparently. Yes, okay, I
look for you. I enjoy your voice. You know you
joked around before nobody can understand you. I can understand.
I understood every other than our technical glitches, which I
will edit out, and probably people have no idea what
I'm talking about. I've understood every single word you said.
So uh, Derek is thank you so much for your
(36:29):
time today, and I hope we get to do this again.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Absolutely, it's been great.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Thank you. So that does it for this episode of
Appetite for Distortion. When we see the next one. In
the words of Axel Rose, concerning Chinese democracy, I don't
know as soon as the word, but you'll see.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
It thanks to the lame as security. I'm going home,
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