October 17, 2025 • 59 mins
Dan McConomy was the manager for West Arkeen and his band, The Outpatience. We learn more about the late musician, his songwriting, how the album almost didn't happen, the truth behind West's tragic death, a crazy story behind the monkey album cover, Guns N' Roses' early days, and much more!
More info:
Contact Dan:
https://www.instagram.com/danmcconomy1/
https://www.thestereoflow.com/dan-mcconomy
Outpatience album:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLy1F0NPv5gorztFyLQ_Ch4x_4Y3-_6-P
Our website:
www.afdpod.com
More info:
Contact Dan:
https://www.instagram.com/danmcconomy1/
https://www.thestereoflow.com/dan-mcconomy
Outpatience album:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLy1F0NPv5gorztFyLQ_Ch4x_4Y3-_6-P
Our website:
www.afdpod.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
He would record the demos or guns n' roses while
they were forming the band.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to the podcast Appetite for Distortion. My name is Brando.
Episode number well, not twelve ninety two, quite, it's episode
five hundred and thirty six. I should have asked, by
the way it's I guess it's gonna rhyme so it
fits perfectly. Dan mcconomy or m economy. How do I
(00:32):
say it?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
It's economy, Dan mcconomy like economy.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I love that. So Dan mcconomy is our guest. Welcome
to the podcast or how are you doing?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Thank you sir, thanks for having me. It was great
to see your backstories on Western Keene, and you know,
I commented on it because it was one of the
most magical moments in my life, was managing West and
whole adventure as it went. You know.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
So we're going to get into that West Arkeen, the
late Great West Arkeen, brilliant songwriter, of course, some songs
with guns and roses like It's So Easy and Yesterday's
And you're talking about the video I recently posted with
Cynthia McLeod, who is the sister of Billy McLeod, who
is one of the four writers for Yesterday Yesterday's which
(01:25):
is Del James, west Arkeen, Billy McLeod and Axel Rose.
And you commented on my Facebook video which has like
or like one hundred thousand views on like a three
minute there's a whole interview with us, and you'll see
the same thing speak for an hour or so then
bite sized bits. You know, how today's world works, we
need to have bite sized bits of actual conversations. So
(01:47):
you commented on it, just like Cynthia commented about on
something that I asked him, like you, I want to
talk to you about this this never before told guns
and Roses story and you have one well like Owans
and Rosa, but related about west Arkeen and the outpatients. Yes,
that brilliant album which in many ways featured the last
(02:10):
original track with a slash and axle on it together.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Definitely, Yeah, it was. It was the title track, Anxious Disease.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
So we're going to get into that. But honestly, Michael,
we always do like I always do. I want to
learn more about you Dan Economy because you're in You're
in Paris right now.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah, I've been in Paris since two thousand and one,
two thousand and two, actually because after nine to eleven,
Sonic Underground, which was my umbrella company, pr Slash Distribution,
Radio Promotion and Management company, failed like three hundred and
(02:54):
seventy four other labels because Indy went under and all
the labels closed, and I got an opportunity to come
to Paris to do music and I just never went
back to la after that because that's how it worked out.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
But yeah, well it sounds like a really cool people
want to live in Paris to do what you're doing.
But you have a whole backstory too, which involves I
mean I reading your some of your history. I know
you're born in Montreal.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Right, Yeah, I'm born in Montreal.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Did I hear a little bit that little accent? Which
I love?
Speaker 1 (03:32):
That's why I can speak a little French, but not
vision when I got here. But yeah, and when my
dad my dad was a big time manager in Canada
and producer and had a bunch of hits, and then
(03:53):
he ended up managing Natalie Cole and we moved to
from Montreal to New York. When he signed her, he
signed her out of Buffalo, like some show in Buffalo,
and then we moved to New York, lived in Newchelle,
grew up there for two years, and then finally she
(04:15):
got signed, but she got signed the Capitol Records in LA.
So my dad decided for us to move to LA
in order for him to be able to be in
the offices with Basca Mannon and all the executives at
Capital to make it work, which was Lark and Arnold
(04:36):
signed her, which was the guy who also signed Cool
in the Gang and Michael Jackson to Epic and all that.
So that's how I ended up in LA, growing up
in LA. But I played drums through it all, and
I was a musical guy the whole time.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
And I don't want to gloss over because we spoke
about it a bit off areas in near Bio because
we have the New York though, just to live there
for a second. Your mom was a rocket, which is
just I think that's so.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Yeah, she was, and uh, you know, she moved to
things to New York when I was very young. My
parents separated and she moved to New York and then
ended up being working at Apex and marrying the president,
I imagine from what I'm told, and then I, you know,
(05:31):
saw it later in my life.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
But yeah, the story for another time. But I just
thought the rocket thing was it was a cool connection
to your connection, because you know, I'm here in Barest Hills, Queens,
and I feel so uncultured, being like you're from Paris
in my New York accent.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
I just want to I lived in New York. Also
when my third mom is a Broadway star Christine Andreas,
who did Oklahoma, My Fair Lady, all of that, and
at one point I when I was eight, after muscle shows,
I went to muscle shows. When I was seventeen years old,
(06:09):
I became an engineer, and at nineteen I moved to
New York and worked for my dad's management company, and
he was going out with her. So I really got
the whole New York culture at that point. I lived
for five years in New York and really understood the
whole Broadway thing, the music thing. Almost ended up at
(06:31):
the power station as an engineer, and I got through
twelve interviews and at the end, the guy, the owner
says to me, so what do you want to do.
I said, I want to be a producer. He goes, ah, ah,
you can't be an engineer here if you want to
be a producer. So I blew the gig and I
(06:55):
was on the next planet to LA and I ended
up producing Agent Steel as the first record I ever
produced in nineteen eighty four, and that's how I got
into producing. And then all the bands I produced they
got signed. They all had terrible management, unethical management. Never like,
(07:20):
your dad's a great manager, you should manage us. I'm like, no, no, no.
They said, well, if you want to produce the album, yeah,
you have to manage us. I was like, ah, okay,
well I really want to produce manager. That's basically how
it all started for me, being a producer and a manager.
(07:42):
Basically these in these times, it's actually a lot better.
It's a lot more acceptable to do both because I'm
also a label guy. So I set up all my
artists with their own label. I work with independent artists mostly,
(08:03):
but all of them have their own corporation label publishing
you that way. If they get into something with a major,
they just license it, but otherwise I run their corporation
for them.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Right on. I love the background of it all, and
it was all fate, just to follow your dream of
being your producer and becoming a manager. So I guess
where are we? Where are you in your life when
you cross paths with with West, who I know is
not a New Yorker, But I always felt when I
learned about him as a young guns Roses fan, a
(08:40):
little akin to him because I was raised Jewish. He's Jewish,
and I was like, he just seems like a I'm short,
he's he was short. I'm like, I kind of like yeah,
because you know, it sounds silly, but when you're I
guess a lot of people can identify with it. But
when you're a kid, you're looking at like who can
I look up to? Like me? You know, having Stephen Adler,
(09:02):
you know who's also Jewish? And then West hurtin right,
So I mean that was that was special. So you know,
I know it's a tragic tale and we'll get to
that to that, but I mean, how did your your
life cross paths with him? Do you know him before?
Did you work when you work with him? How did
you end up meeting West? Arkeen?
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Well, basically, I had a gentleman named Warren Croyle working
for me as a and R at Sonic Underground, and
uh he produced Godhead and a couple other people and
he kind of went off the tracks and lost control
of the situation with First of all, the singer, the
(09:44):
original singer in the Outpatients died right So Noel Golden,
who's a Canadian engineer that I know very well and
is a friend, was working with them, and they owed
a ton of cash. They owed like sixty K to
(10:06):
Rumbo Studios, which is where Guns n' Roses was recording
at the point, and basically the album was stuck in
the studio because they couldn't record, they couldn't finish. They
lost the singer, and West and I met while Warren
(10:29):
like just went out of the picture completely, kind of
just went through a personal crisis. So I got involved
with them with my partners actually in New York. I
called I had a company called Park Avenue Management at
(10:50):
that time with some pretty heavyweight people in New York,
and I Wes played me the album and I went, Wow,
this is an amazing album. This can't stay this way.
So I got together with him and Noel. We decided
to go look for a singer. Noel had a guy
(11:12):
named Michael Shotton out of Toronto, so I got on
the phone call I asked him I negotiated the whole thing. Basically,
I kept the band together by financing it. We paid
off the studio, We got the band a villa that
(11:37):
they stayed in together with West because West was on
the street. I mean, he was in bad shape, like
everything went wrong after the singer died. So then we
brought in. We brought the singer in, We auditioned him.
I took a couple took about a week, and then
finally Wes said, yeah, we can do it with this
(11:59):
guy if I you know, I just gotta I just
gotta make it work my way. So basically we then
recorded the album. And while we're recording the album, I
was doing a lot of business in Japan at the
time with because I also managed. At the same time,
(12:21):
I was managing Mother's Army, which is Joe, Lene Turner,
Bob Daisley, Jeff Watson and the drummer as well, Ansley Dunbar,
and so I got an idea and in Japan things
are very hard to do. It usually takes six months
(12:44):
to a year to make a record deal properly in Japan.
So what I did was I faxed two companies. I
was doing business with JBC and another company. I said, look,
I have an album. It's Western Guns and Roses number six.
It's got axel, it's got slash, it's got it's got
(13:08):
busy on it on different songs, and here's the record.
You have forty eight hours to make a deal because
that record company wants it, and that record company wants it.
And I said, and they said, so what's the price?
I said, two hundred and fifty thousand, So I said,
(13:29):
and I faxed them. I didn't talk to anyone because
if I had probably talked to them, I couldn't probably
pull it off. They would have heard it in my
voice like I know, this isn't for real. So I
rolled the dice. I rolled the dice, and I got
them the deal. I got them the deal for two
(13:50):
hundred and fifty k plus. We got We paid off
the studio, we paid the musicians, we paid the new
thing there we got. We're able to finance. We had
a plan of six months of housing and before they
went out on tour. And so the album was and
(14:13):
then I had it mastered by Eddie Schreier at Oasis Mastering,
who was my buddy. I'd go to hockey games with
him every week. So he was like my hockey buddy,
and so we sat and we made a phenomenal record
and then there was then there was the album cover
(14:37):
and Robert John was picked to do it, who had
done I had worked with John Robert on Rumble Train,
which was the guys from Rock City Angel and a
bunch of other bands that I managed at the time.
And West insisted that he wanted a monkey caged on
(15:01):
the album cover, and he wanted to. He showed me,
He goes, I want to. I want a monkey that's
like like this. I go, okay, man, So I'm like
making his dream come true. You know, I'm like okay.
So we Roberts, Robert John and I go to Venice.
We start setting up, we were start we were doing
(15:23):
the shoot before that part of it without West, before
West even got there, because we rented the The band
was coming in the afternoon. We had the monkeys in
the morning. So we're there with three trainers and I
send I send somebody out to get sandwiches for us.
(15:46):
And basically we we go through the monkeys and Robert
and I chose, oh, we want that one. That's the monkey.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
That's the monkey, and.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
It was the guy from It was a gray monkey
from some famous movie. I forget which movie. It is
sixth Sansor or some cricksy movie like that, and so
we bring him out. They bring him out. Now there's
three trainers, three trainers, right, and they make the monkey
(16:20):
put his hands on the bar, but the food comes
in at the same time and he goes and Robert goes, all,
let me get a polaroid. So we get a polaroid
of the monkey with the red background. It was phenomenal,
like it worked out. We were like, yeah, that's perfect,
(16:42):
let's eat and then we'll do the shoot properly and
let the monkey go back in the cage now. But
the monkey goes berserk and attacks both all the trainers
and gets away and gets away, and he's loose in
the whole complex. But the guy, the guy who brought
(17:03):
us the sandwiches went back out and locked us in
so we couldn't get out. What yeah, but it's like
high security stuff, you know, like the runner went out
with the keys, so we none of us could get
out of the building.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
What's that hard movie Chakma or whatever, I don't know, but.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Me and Robert John ended up in the kitchen hiding
in the corner going no, don't kill us. So if
you ever get to see the cover.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Of the Outface I have, it's in my I'm gonna
put it over as you know, when I put this out,
I'm gonna put the cover.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah you could the cover that's that is an actual polaroid.
That's the only shot we got of the monkeys at all.
And I mean one of the trainers ended up in
the hospital because the monkey was so powerful that he
bid through the steel gloves. That's how powerful it was.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
That's not it's not even like a you know, going
ape ship like an ape. You know, that's a monkey
that ship.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I love that there's a story about the monkey. I
was not expecting that. You know. Yeah, that's a choice.
And now see you wouldn't even get that story. Now
they would use a I create that. You know, they
would drown some river rather than drain some river, rather
than have this great monkey story.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
And like he wanted, you know, West and I worked
in a certain way. He's very magical in his wishes.
But there was always a reason behind now the Outpatients
was really his being that he was one of the
best drug writers of the time. Uh, like drug songs.
(18:52):
You know, was renowned for that, but this was like
his subberb after okay, And that's what's so epic about
the story and tragic about the story for me, because
I loved us with all my heart and we worked
(19:12):
two years together and it was on a daily basis,
and basically he was sober. He was going to meetings.
I was. I had him surrounded by great people. He
was going to the meetings. He was. He was a
stone cold sober. And basically I went on vacation on
(19:40):
Christmas vacation, and at the insistence of my girlfriend and
something told me not to do it. I came to
New York to have Christmas with my family in New
York and my daughter was in Buffalo, and you know,
my family in North Collbell, New Jersey, Bloomfield and New
(20:01):
York City itself. And I was like, ah, don't go,
don't go, because you know, the band went on Christmas vacation,
the singer went back to Toronto, the twins went to Pasadena
with their parents, and I knew that West was going
to be alone, and I was worried about that. But
(20:24):
what happened was he had a little Christmas party, let's say,
or a pre Christmas party. But there was a barbecue
inside the house, like in the like it was a big,
huge villa things, so it had like this barbecue inside
(20:45):
the house. And he loved to cook. West loved to cook,
so he's making the cooking, the cooking, and his neighbor
had West picked up the glass and by accident that
the neighbor had and it had ghb in it, and
(21:07):
he got wasted on it. He had not done touched
anything in two years. And basically what happened was he
forgot that the the gas was on, like he cooked,
(21:27):
he cooked, and then he left the gas on and
then he went to smoke cigarette and it blew up
on him and he went to the hospital and because
he was a heroine, you know, ex heroine at it,
they sent him home with Tylano. But he had second
(21:51):
and third degree burns and it was too much for him,
and no one was there taking care of and the
twins had come back, and they didn't know about it
very much because it was very quiet. And basically he
called this guy to get rid of the pain, and
the dose was just way too much and that's how
(22:11):
he gost and I was I, because I remember I
cut my trip short and I was praying, just praying,
because I as soon as I heard he was in hospital,
I took the plane home and on my way home,
(22:32):
I got home at seven in the morning and he
had died at four in the morning. So I was like,
it was super devastating for me. And then I had
never handled a death of an artist, so that was
that was very hard to do. And Duff and Noel
(22:55):
and the band, the Guns Band were very it have
been helping me deal with it, you know, And that's that.
I mean, we had already gone to Japan, done the
PR for a week. We'd done all the big PR stunts,
(23:15):
the comedy show, the you know, the big radio show,
you know, all the interviews and all that, and the
band was supposed to the record was in number three
when he passed away on the charts, and we were
preparing to tour to go and play Japan like eight
(23:40):
weeks later, two months later. So that's the story. That's
the Western Keen story. But you know, I mean, as
far as a person is concerned, the most magical moment
I ever had really in all of this. It wasn't
the trip to Japan. It wasn't the thing. It was
watching him right was the most magical thing for me.
(24:06):
I would go, you know, we had an apartment for
him before the villa, and he would He was writing
with a guy named jimbo Estrella. That was guy that
he wrote a lot of songs with and I he
invited me into the writing session one night, which he
(24:28):
never does, and I watching him, his soul just became
metaphysical when he was writing, and you were like so
touched by where he was going with the writing. The
soul with which he wrote was amazing.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
First, I'm sorry for your loss all these years later
of your friend the West. It's you know, I I
sit back here doing a G and R related podcast
and I never met these people, but I feel a
connection and you know they hear it from you, and
I appreciate the story and I know it's not I
know you're eager to share it, but I know it's
(25:11):
not easy. You know, I can hear in your voice
and see her in your face of how it still hurts,
and just so I don't forget the because you've mentioned
the twins a couple of times on the podcast. If
people want to look I actually have a West Arkeen
like interview collection that have things that I've done all
(25:33):
pre pandemics, and unfortunately they're all audio, but they do
pictures on it. And you go on YouTube with James
Hunting Yes and Greg and Greg Buckwalter, who were members
of the out Patients, and they both shared their uh
they're also they're they're their tale of this, and they
had not shared that. I forget, forgive me, I wish
(25:54):
I forgot if it was James or Jamie or Greg
that mentioned who found him. It was Jamie, Okay, I
had not. Yeah, the whole the whole fire thing is
very shocking and being sent home, you know, as I
started the episode off, you know, this is kind of
almost off the heels of the Billy McLeod episode and
(26:15):
how he had gotten straight, he had gotten sober and
then the hospital f him over, you know, and then
here's another situation where that happens. Yeah, and who knows
what what what could have happened if he was properly
medicated for his burns, just just just just awful.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Yeah, Well, Greg, talking about Greg bug Walter, he ended
up in the Outpatients because I had he was in
the band rumble Train, which was Barnes, Mike Barnes, Andy
Panic and Doug Banks from Rock City Angels with the
(26:59):
drum of Kats and Boots and a singer from Montreal.
But Greg was the keyboard player and that, you know,
one of the people that made it through was Doug Banks,
who I who I got straight off of off of
Smack and he was in the rumble Train thing. And
(27:21):
now he's a lawyer, so that makes me proud. He
called me a couple of weeks ago. I was like, dog,
you're a lawyer. That's amazing, goes Yeah, man, thanks, thanks
so much for saving my life.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
You know that says what kind of person you are. Well,
thanks for sharing that. Also a little tidbit there. You know,
I want to focus on you know, I know it's
at the end, we all know. I know you've revealed
more than I had been at least I had I
had known. But I want to focus on some fun things,
you know, good times that you had with with West.
(27:52):
You know, Greg told me, you know, part of the story,
or at least his version of it. Maybe you could
tell me more how West tricked or I don't know,
if you want to use that word Axel and Slash
to record on the same song without them knowing, because
at the time they all hated each other. Right, So
(28:13):
where did the Guns and Roses thing come into play?
Speaker 1 (28:15):
For you?
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Where he here's West starting his own band. And by
the way, I assume so with the outpatients, is for like, Okay,
I'm getting out of being a drug addict. I'm out
I'm an outpatient? Is that kind of how he viewed
It's own a little spelling, okay, just I didn't know
if that was overly obvious or it was something else. Uh,
but then he gets.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
All that, I imagine that was the method.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Thing, you know, but to get all the Guns and
Roses guys on it because there are some people like, hey,
this is my own thing, I don't need your help
kind of but that wasn't his. While he did do
his own thing, he had all these names say hey,
look is he's on this, Slashes on this, Axel, what
was how did that all come together? And what were
your interactions with the Guns and Roses or if you
(29:00):
had them while recording?
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Well from what I know, from what I know, Noel Golden,
who's who's the producer engineer on the on the out
Patients was also was also doing Daff Superman this that record.
(29:23):
So I remember going to the studio meeting Duff and
Noel and at the same night it was Marilyn Manson
had just finished their album. We walked out of the studio.
Marilyn Manson had just finished their album in the other
in the studio next to us, and on the lawn
(29:43):
they had put all the cabinets, all of their drums
and did a bonfire. We're like, what the heck is this?
Speaker 2 (29:56):
But at least it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
I think it's a combination of really, I mean West.
You have to understand the story with West West, how
guns and Roses came together. In the beginning is West
had an apartment he had worked. He just got off
the tour with sly Stone Slide couldn't bam or didn't
(30:23):
bam or whatever. So he got the A track He
gave him his A track recorder.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Don't I don't know. West was one tour with Slyestone.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
I feel like I I don't know why. Maybe I
forgot it.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Yeah, yeah, he was a guitar tak or something. He
was like, he wasn't like playing with him on the tour,
and as they get off the tour, he goes back
to his apartment and it's when the guns and Roses
things started happening. They were, you know, sleeping.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
On on on his floor and his apartment on some nights,
and he would do the demos.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
He would record the demos wore guns than roses while
they were forming the band, So there was like his
party place and they'd like pass out and then do
a song, and then they'd go out and play and
then they think. So there was a rich history with
the band and as Dove got his own thing going,
(31:33):
I think that Axel was still writing with with with
West at the time. Iazy was. He was closest with
Izzy as far as like, as far as I know
on a playing soul level, he was closer to Izzy
(31:56):
than anyone, Okay, though they all loved each other, you know,
That's why they called him gn R Number six. I
think Duff was very close with him as well, because
Duff was the first one to reach out to me
when this all went down, Okay, and he had just
(32:17):
moved to Seattle, so he couldn't be at the funeral
in time, and that was a whole other issue because
he was Jewish. He wanted to be buried, but he
had tattoos, so that was a big deal. So we
worked the way around that and God buried where he
(32:39):
wanted to be, next to us.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
So okay, good, Well, yeah, it's it's so funny. I
forget because tattoos are so common now. I even have
Hebrew patients on my arm.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
But it's an issue in the Hebrew community. I know.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
I'm not I'm not. I'm like a sign even though
I was Barmits. But all that stuff I'm gonna sign
called cultural. I'm not religious type. I mean, it's whatever
we don't need. We don't need to sidetracked that what
I want death, it was.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
It was something I was dealing with that.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
No, it's I understand, and I I appreciate your sharing
that little tidbit because that is something you know. It
is I follow west Uh, Like there's a Facebook page
and tribute to him, and like I think even in
the cover of the Facebook page is his plaque and
it has started David on there. So I mean to
know more history about somebody I can relate to. Andy,
(33:34):
I mean, his lawyer.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
And the family really insisted on that so it was
really something that West wished, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Good, cool, cool, That's that's you know, it's to get
the wishes that you want. I mean because I've I've
dealt with not getting the wishes people want and the
death maybe you have either. It's just an ugly, ugly situation.
So I'm glad that those that relatively went, uh all
things considered, but uh that the continue I guess with
the with the G and R thing. Uh, he has
(34:04):
this history with them, but again, did he want to
be like Okay, I have this history with them, but
why include them? You know, Greg made it be like aha,
you know, he knew they were going to break up,
like I'm going to have the last recording ever. You know,
that was kind of that's the way he beats West.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Well, that's the way. That's why Buckwalter is a little
bit you know. But I mean, we're we're where. I
think it was completely by accident. First of all, G
and R actual had a lockout at Brumbo at the
same time for years. I think he was at Rumbo
for five years during that recording, during that album with
(34:43):
Buckethead or whatever.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Okay, Chinese democracy.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yeah, Chinese democracy. That was like he had a lockout
for five years at Umbo and that's where we that's
where West recorded. So I think it was happenstance that
you know, maybe Axel flowed into the studio. They were
writing a song together and he said, hey, what do
(35:11):
you think you know? Could you you want to sing
on this? And then I don't know that the whole
story was slash and thing and all that, but I
know that once Axel did it, and I know that Duff.
I think Duff was the first one to do it, okay,
because Noel was playing it was the engineer and doing
(35:37):
his album. Okay, so that there there's the Dove connection,
you know.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
All right, and all retired.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
I've met with him a couple of times. He's one
of my favorite engineers ever. So but he's come to
Paris a couple of times with you had dinner. But
he really retired now okay officially about ten years ago.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Retired as in wouldn't do a podcast. He would do
a podcast, I just to fill in more of the wests.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
But he's a very private person, so maybe he might not.
Maybe I would respect that it's worth reaching out to him,
you know, But he's very closed.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
And I respect that because you know, I appreciate what
you know, Greg and Jamie and your sharing. And I
also interviewed his young I don't know how young he
is now, but his nephew, Casey, who is the son
of his sister. And there was a lot of family
which I unfortunately know about too after someone dies and
(36:41):
money and royalty all that stuff. And I'd be remiss
to say if I didn't say that. Abe Arkene didn't
reach out to me an email saying that he kind
of trying to set the record straight with money and
royalties and things like that. I offered him to come on,
you know, didn't want to, So I respect that just
but I just wanted to mention it. So I always
(37:02):
respect share.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
We were a little stunned, uh after the death that
the absolute first thing was the guitars that were asked for.
You know what I'm saying, Oh yeah, yeah, So I
(37:27):
was like, okay, but I think there was.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
But the lawyer.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
There was a lawyer involved who was very good. So
I mean, the guy who took care of West was
had his had his act together, so I think he
the things were done properly as far as concerned.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
What about the record itself, because I know, you know,
for a while you can find it online. Now you
can find that, you know YouTube. Is there any sort
of like who is it? Who owns the rights? So
you never know if something can be re released to
celebrate music, I mean, who's in charge of the outpatients,
any sort of you know, just wanting to keep his
(38:14):
music alive in any way possible and then just talking
about it. I don't know if that's something that it
has been spoken about at all.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Well, another deal with Japan is wasn't perpetuity for sure
because they paid so much money for it, but it
was a japan okay, so we had a bunch of
labels ready to sign it. But then he passed away,
so we didn't. Nobody signed it. And then Harley I
(38:45):
think his name is if I remember right, the lawyer
found a deal with the European label two years later
and then changed the cover and the thing of that.
But and they made it. They were the first ones
to make it digital. But I think there was a
clause in the contract where they had to sell x
(39:06):
amount of units or it reverted back, and I think
that's what happened, or the label that signed it went
bankrupt and it went back offline. But I just saw
the album on YouTube. I don't think it's.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Authorized, but right right, nothing's authorized.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
Nothing's authorized, And I don't know where the royalties are
funneling to. I know that Park Avenue Management, who that
I'm no longer a part of in New York, made
a deal to that once we recouped the substantial amount
(39:46):
of investment we made, all rights reverted back to the band,
which happened after which happened once the deal the album
was delivered, So there's no trace. I don't know who's
doing what, but in the digital age, I have no
(40:12):
I have no authority in the whole situation. So it's
the family.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Yeah, I would just I would assume, so uh just uh.
It was just a nice story, you know, to bring
it up again, because it's kind of like it's at
all that's again. Guns and Roses is the through line
through it all, but off the billiy McLeod story that
the royalties from yesterday's goes to his nieces and they
(40:44):
get paid still to this day two three times a
year from royalties to from yesterday's. So it's just it's
wonderful when you hear and she one of the daughters,
had reached out to me of Cynthia, one of his nieces,
saying that she's one They made a recorded version back
in the day when she was in a band, going
to try to find it. So I just always, you know,
keeping the music alive, keeping the spirit alive of a
(41:06):
life of a band that ended just way too soon,
you know, an adventure that ended way too soon.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
You know.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Any way to kind of relive it is what I
try to do because you know, there's there's a lot
of great We don't want these stories to go away,
you know, we don't want these people to be forgotten.
What What's What's something that you you think that maybe
you learned about Wes that we may not know. It's
like when you're like a fun you know, this was
(41:33):
like a really special moment, and you mentioned your writing,
but was there anything that maybe you should.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
And his his he had he had a he was
a deep romantic. You know, you can't write songs like
l O V e Are off of the out Patients
album if you're not a romantic. And watching him with
Wendy Lou because we did a whole shoot with her.
(42:00):
I don't know if she's included in the album where
she was dressed up as a nurse. But watching his
relationships with people, he was. He was real. He was genuine, personable, funny, loving.
It was he was. He was a good soul, you
(42:24):
know what I mean. And to watch him interact with
people was it was a lot of the fun. Like
if he was dealing with an idiot, he would deal
with them, but in a nice way, you know what
I mean. And he makes you laugh and did make
you laugh. You'd be laugh or you know, if he
(42:47):
was in a serious place, he could be you know,
mister superstar. Yeah, I can deal with that. You know.
He he had it together. He had a real and
he was fun. It was always fun, and you appreciated
all the people that were very talented. Like he took
(43:08):
me to see Abe Laboreal play one night in a
in a tiny dump of a club. He goes, Oh,
you got to come see this, You got to you
gotta see this guy. He's just the most amazing drummer.
I went, yeah, okay, drummer and drummer. I've seen a
million drummers, but I go to the club and I'm like,
(43:31):
Oh wow, that's a drummer. You know. It was his
passion for life, for people, for music, for and I
think he was really enjoying the sobriety of being present, yeah,
(43:52):
in his life. And he was present for his family,
his friends and supportive and just a really genuine guy,
you know.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
So it's wonderful to hear. And that's why, you know,
it's so many and endless stories of of our the
way human beings are sadly enough, but you have tragedies
like this, but you have you mentioned Uff before. He's
a survivor of it, slashes, a survivor of it. So
it's just like it's frustrating where it's like you were there,
(44:23):
you were you were there, you know, uh so, but
again I wasn't.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
I wasn't there during the party era. But my band,
the band Rumble Train, with Andy Panic and all the
guys from Rock City Angels, they were hanging out together
and they were while it was the wild times. They
would tell me stories. That's why Buck Walter knows so much,
so many stories about West it is because of the
(44:50):
Rock City Angels guys were hanging out at his house.
He was like, the I forget what they called it.
It was like the Animal House also okay or something
like that. But everybody in Hollywood would go to West's house.
All the rock stars would go to West House and
party until six am after the club's closed. So I
(45:15):
didn't know him during that era, you know. And Bobby
Carlton and Mercury was was the one that helped him
get sober. And unfortunately Bobby passed away this year. And
he was a dear, dear friend of mine.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
And I saw him. I saw him in Paris. It
was like, what the hell are you doing? Well.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
I appreciate you sharing all these stories about your friend.
I know you were his manager, but I want to
say your friend West Arkeen. Yeah. I also appreciate you
wearing your guns to Roses shirt. I know it's a
little dark if you're watching this on YouTube, so I
just want to call attention Dan. He dressed for the occasion. Yes,
the appetite shirt.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
In the Vibe got to be in the Vibe.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
My two year old actually has the same shirt. I
got to post that picture. He looks like Kirk Cobean actually,
long blonde hair, plannel and guns and Roses shir Yeah,
but we were able to speak so long as out he's
right now out with his with his mom before we
do leave. Because did you g ever? I know you
didn't know West at that time, but what about GNR?
(46:24):
Have you ever got to see them live or other
than the interactions you spoke about with Dauphin, anything else
that maybe we should uncover.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Oh, I was at the legendary show at the LA
Coliseum where they went off.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
Oh, people don't stop dancing with mister Brown.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
But I would see GNR in the clubs, you know,
I was. I mean, I've been managing bands. I was
managing bands in La. I'm nineteen years old, so still
kid Rocker, which was CC Deville on guitar, and I
let CC go to Poison based on the fact that
(47:06):
I would have first DIBs on the management before how
I got involved, And I brought my dad's ex partner
in Larry Robbins, because they said, well, you're nineteen years old.
We can't just have you have great ideas and everything,
but we need somebody legit. So I brought my dad's
(47:28):
ex partner in Larry Robbins, and I go, these guy's
going to be it. Man. You know, I'm going to
put them on the road. They're going to play every
little club and we'll build it. We'll build it. He goes,
are you crazy they can't even play? Or no, no, no,
I'm not doing this. So that's how I ended up
(47:48):
not managing Poison.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Was this before after Bicky Hamilton? I'm assuming before.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
It was before? Yeah, but then they had the pubblic
that they always had at that time, and that's how
I knew them. Well. I knew them through CC, but
Cecy had a contract with me on a management contract
because I was co managing with manager of the manager
(48:19):
of Kiss.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
I forget his name, Doc McGee.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
No, the other one, the original one.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
Oh no, I'm not original manager of Kiss. I can
google that. I'm a G and R guy, not a
Kiss guy. Anyway, They Billy A Coin Bill Coin, so
I called him Billy like I know him. But yeah
(48:47):
a lot of people call him Billy.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Yeah. So I was co managing Kid Rocker with Bill
O Cooin and am. I wanted to sign the band
if the singer lost uh fifteen pounds or twenty pounds,
that was the deal. Like, we'll give him thirty days,
we'll give you thirty days he loses the way we
signed the band. Okay, so I said him. At the time,
(49:13):
they had those gyms where you had the electronic pulse things.
So I kept sending him to thing and he wasn't
losing the weight, and I was like, what is happening?
And then Cecy knocks on my door one night, comes
to my office. He goes, bro, I love you, man,
(49:35):
but I have an opportunity to go play with Poison
and Jimmy is never going to lose the weight. I go,
why he goes, because you send him to this thing.
And then he goes across the street to the McDonald's.
Speaker 4 (49:52):
And pigs out and he'll never lose the weight. He
didn't do that part of it. He's going to the gym,
but they didn't go to McDonald's and I went, uh, okay.
And then it was like the last week of the
my deal. I said, okay, I'll let you out of
the contract to go with the Poison, but you got
(50:12):
to give me give me first, and they did a
showcase for me.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
It's near Paramount and.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
Uh, anyway, you're ducks in a row and it seems
like in your your own album and your friends are
on it, and then you know what, I'm not even
saying I've done that when I'm not paying attention. I
can't believe I left the gas on once. I'm I
can't believe, like nightmares about it, I did that once.
But so I'm like now like O c D about it.
(50:41):
So it's just awful. But that's where it started.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
If if he had not let his neighbor in, you know,
and and taking a sip of his class. I know
it was so non deliberate and he was stone cold
sober at the time.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
Right right right, because he wasn't thinking straight. That's the key,
and I hate that. Maybe it goes full circle. I now,
I just think of that Seinfeld episode because I know
this is not a funny situation. But I don't know
if you remember that Seinfeld when they switched drinks and
it was an early earlier But I digress. But either way,
you know, just stand there. On a positive note, I
appreciate you sharing this story. You know, I love talking
(51:25):
about west Arkeen because he's written some brilliant music. A
chance to talk about the outpatients because it's not a
household name like Guns n' Roses. So you know, Dan,
it didn't.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
Get its real chance, you know, I mean, it's striven
to be at number three on the Japanese charts, getting
ready to tour and showcase the lapels in the States,
and boom, it's over. You know I was. It took me.
It took me a long time to get over it.
(51:57):
You know, I've had I've had a couple of in
my career as a manager. For example, a couple of
years ago, I took a band from the garage to
health Fest in a year and a half.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
Right, well, okay, I get.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
To health Fest, I go backstage and the man goes, sorry, man,
we need bigger management. And I was like what. So
I was like, okay, one of my clients that are
for twenty seven years kind of thing, you know what
I mean. So I went, I took a year off
(52:43):
of management completely. I just said, why do I want
to manage anymore? And all that.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
But when I came treated like that, yeah really yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:52):
So but when I came back into management, everybody thinks
it's you know, I picked the name bigger Management, not
because of because it's I have a big ego. I
picked it because no one is ever going to tell
me that ever again. No one's gonna tell me I
need bigger management ever again.
Speaker 2 (53:13):
I was like, you literally are bigger management?
Speaker 1 (53:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (53:16):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (53:17):
Yeah. Yeah, So that's the inside joke on bigger management.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
Oh no, that's a great segue too, because I was
gonna just wrap up, wrap up by saying, you know
what do you have to promote bigger management? Are you
still DJing across Paris or you know what?
Speaker 1 (53:33):
I was staring for like ten years as a DJ
under the name of the Stereo Flow I was, you know,
I'm playing America and Canada and uh, Europe. I stopped
doing that. I'm back into production. I'm doing a band
called The Whispering. I'm finishing the final mix right now.
(53:55):
Who I also manage it, which is uh and it's
a Dirk b Burn from Megadeath on drums. But there's
also Tobias Kelgrin from Dissection on the other half of
the album on drums. And then it's the bass player
from Scarf Lowi Colin and Lucien full from La a
(54:19):
new singer guitar player that's projects awesome. I'm producing a
managing a band called Max Chaos out of Toronto, that's
we were on the charts again. The record came out.
The single came out right away on June thirteenth, and
(54:39):
then stayed on the charts for peaked at number eleven,
stayed on the charts for twelve fifteen weeks. So we're now,
I guess start mixing the rest of the album next
week and very cool. I an artist that I was
thinking of how I miss West, kind of like wrap
it all around, you know what I mean is where
(55:02):
I miss West as well as I have this artist
Nick Hennon out of Toronto, who's kind of like country
pop but very soulful. I'm like, Wow, if I had
if I had West, I can't tell you how many
nights I'm like, if I had West writing with Nick,
(55:22):
because Nick has a voice, like a voice that that
West would just fall in love with him and write
right for him. You know, I was like, I missed
with so much that way. You know what I'm saying.
He could pull out a number one song like this. Here,
here's a song.
Speaker 2 (55:39):
It's so easy. Literally. I love that. I love the
fact that you still think of him in that in
that way. Within your current work. You know, any of
the bands or any of yours. You want me to
share because put in the summary the show notes, So
just send my way, you know. And I think it
just might be kind of Crazier things have happened. Maybe
(56:00):
just maybe we can get yesterday's the charts all these
years later, to honor Billy, to honor West. Crazier things
have happened. I didn't rage get Killing in the name
of the chart years later and Phemian rhaps City. When
Wayne World came out, it charted again. I know it
was a small little podcast. Crazier things have happened, though,
(56:21):
But listen to yesterday's Remember Billy, Remember West. I don't know,
remember the good the good times.
Speaker 1 (56:28):
Maybe I could do a dance remix, get a europlay,
do what.
Speaker 2 (56:33):
I think that would be cool.
Speaker 1 (56:34):
I've been hearing a lot of I've been hearing a
lot of rock stuff getting remixed because one Garcia and
I once from the guitar player from Agent Steele, who
I first beat I managed. He's in BodyCount now okay yeah,
and he DJs. So he was like, let's do this project, man,
(56:57):
Let's let's remix all the great rocks on. So I
think it's I think there's a possibility that can happen
one day. Okay, okay, you have to have a reason
to get something out and yeah yeah yeah, so if
someone can talk to.
Speaker 2 (57:15):
I don't know if that's it's so hard. We got
they got him to do a comic book. I don't
know about music. Yeah, yeah, he's putting out a graphic novel,
believe or not. Axl Rose is going to live on
in comic book form. But we'll see what happens with music.
But that's a story for He needs West, he needs West,
he needs Yeah, he's a character for sure. Recipees, West
(57:37):
ur Keen and Billy McCloud. Just because you're on my brain, Dan,
just thank you so much for your time and appreciate
you sharing your uh this story and just hanging out
with us, and anytime you want to come back, you
know U any more West stories, any more gn R stories.
You're like, oh, I forgot to tell you please. Yeah,
You're always welcome to come back on.
Speaker 1 (57:55):
I will do that, I think, uh, And I appreciate.
Speaker 2 (57:59):
You having me And I know you were looking for
pictures of you and West. I know at you said
a lot of them he lost in a fire, which
is awful.
Speaker 1 (58:07):
Yeah, unfortunately. You know, five years ago, I had a
fire while I was at a concert and I lost
every picture. I lost all my computers and it's just terrible.
Speaker 2 (58:22):
But I'm sorry to bring that up.
Speaker 1 (58:25):
I had a box, a specific box of all the
photos of Mike, Shotton, West and I in Japan with
the record company that the record company had put together
for me and put book and sent it to me.
And that was one of my irrevocable losses that from
(58:49):
my God.
Speaker 2 (58:50):
We actually, my wife and I we just ordered like windows,
fireproof blankets to put things in. You know, we just
hear stories like yours. I mean awful. So anyway, I
keep saying I'm end up positive nowhere, I keep ruining
it anyway, and just thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (59:06):
Let's see what we can do about yesterday's.
Speaker 2 (59:10):
Yeah, yeah, I know, let's let's listen to it today.
So you enjoyed the night in Paris?
Speaker 1 (59:15):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (59:15):
That does it for this episode of Appetite for Distortion?
When will you see the next one? In the words
of AXL Rose, concerning Chinese democracy, I don't know as
soon as the word, but you'll see it.
Speaker 1 (59:24):
Thanks to the lame as security. I'm going home
He would record the demos or guns n' roses while
they were forming the band.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to the podcast Appetite for Distortion. My name is Brando.
Episode number well, not twelve ninety two, quite, it's episode
five hundred and thirty six. I should have asked, by
the way it's I guess it's gonna rhyme so it
fits perfectly. Dan mcconomy or m economy. How do I
(00:32):
say it?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
It's economy, Dan mcconomy like economy.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I love that. So Dan mcconomy is our guest. Welcome
to the podcast or how are you doing?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Thank you sir, thanks for having me. It was great
to see your backstories on Western Keene, and you know,
I commented on it because it was one of the
most magical moments in my life, was managing West and
whole adventure as it went. You know.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
So we're going to get into that West Arkeen, the
late Great West Arkeen, brilliant songwriter, of course, some songs
with guns and roses like It's So Easy and Yesterday's
And you're talking about the video I recently posted with
Cynthia McLeod, who is the sister of Billy McLeod, who
is one of the four writers for Yesterday Yesterday's which
(01:25):
is Del James, west Arkeen, Billy McLeod and Axel Rose.
And you commented on my Facebook video which has like
or like one hundred thousand views on like a three
minute there's a whole interview with us, and you'll see
the same thing speak for an hour or so then
bite sized bits. You know, how today's world works, we
need to have bite sized bits of actual conversations. So
(01:47):
you commented on it, just like Cynthia commented about on
something that I asked him, like you, I want to
talk to you about this this never before told guns
and Roses story and you have one well like Owans
and Rosa, but related about west Arkeen and the outpatients. Yes,
that brilliant album which in many ways featured the last
(02:10):
original track with a slash and axle on it together.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Definitely, Yeah, it was. It was the title track, Anxious Disease.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
So we're going to get into that. But honestly, Michael,
we always do like I always do. I want to
learn more about you Dan Economy because you're in You're
in Paris right now.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah, I've been in Paris since two thousand and one,
two thousand and two, actually because after nine to eleven,
Sonic Underground, which was my umbrella company, pr Slash Distribution,
Radio Promotion and Management company, failed like three hundred and
(02:54):
seventy four other labels because Indy went under and all
the labels closed, and I got an opportunity to come
to Paris to do music and I just never went
back to la after that because that's how it worked out.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
But yeah, well it sounds like a really cool people
want to live in Paris to do what you're doing.
But you have a whole backstory too, which involves I
mean I reading your some of your history. I know
you're born in Montreal.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Right, Yeah, I'm born in Montreal.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Did I hear a little bit that little accent? Which
I love?
Speaker 1 (03:32):
That's why I can speak a little French, but not
vision when I got here. But yeah, and when my
dad my dad was a big time manager in Canada
and producer and had a bunch of hits, and then
(03:53):
he ended up managing Natalie Cole and we moved to
from Montreal to New York. When he signed her, he
signed her out of Buffalo, like some show in Buffalo,
and then we moved to New York, lived in Newchelle,
grew up there for two years, and then finally she
(04:15):
got signed, but she got signed the Capitol Records in LA.
So my dad decided for us to move to LA
in order for him to be able to be in
the offices with Basca Mannon and all the executives at
Capital to make it work, which was Lark and Arnold
(04:36):
signed her, which was the guy who also signed Cool
in the Gang and Michael Jackson to Epic and all that.
So that's how I ended up in LA, growing up
in LA. But I played drums through it all, and
I was a musical guy the whole time.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
And I don't want to gloss over because we spoke
about it a bit off areas in near Bio because
we have the New York though, just to live there
for a second. Your mom was a rocket, which is
just I think that's so.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Yeah, she was, and uh, you know, she moved to
things to New York when I was very young. My
parents separated and she moved to New York and then
ended up being working at Apex and marrying the president,
I imagine from what I'm told, and then I, you know,
(05:31):
saw it later in my life.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
But yeah, the story for another time. But I just
thought the rocket thing was it was a cool connection
to your connection, because you know, I'm here in Barest Hills, Queens,
and I feel so uncultured, being like you're from Paris
in my New York accent.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
I just want to I lived in New York. Also
when my third mom is a Broadway star Christine Andreas,
who did Oklahoma, My Fair Lady, all of that, and
at one point I when I was eight, after muscle shows,
I went to muscle shows. When I was seventeen years old,
(06:09):
I became an engineer, and at nineteen I moved to
New York and worked for my dad's management company, and
he was going out with her. So I really got
the whole New York culture at that point. I lived
for five years in New York and really understood the
whole Broadway thing, the music thing. Almost ended up at
(06:31):
the power station as an engineer, and I got through
twelve interviews and at the end, the guy, the owner
says to me, so what do you want to do.
I said, I want to be a producer. He goes, ah, ah,
you can't be an engineer here if you want to
be a producer. So I blew the gig and I
(06:55):
was on the next planet to LA and I ended
up producing Agent Steel as the first record I ever
produced in nineteen eighty four, and that's how I got
into producing. And then all the bands I produced they
got signed. They all had terrible management, unethical management. Never like,
(07:20):
your dad's a great manager, you should manage us. I'm like, no, no, no.
They said, well, if you want to produce the album, yeah,
you have to manage us. I was like, ah, okay,
well I really want to produce manager. That's basically how
it all started for me, being a producer and a manager.
(07:42):
Basically these in these times, it's actually a lot better.
It's a lot more acceptable to do both because I'm
also a label guy. So I set up all my
artists with their own label. I work with independent artists mostly,
(08:03):
but all of them have their own corporation label publishing
you that way. If they get into something with a major,
they just license it, but otherwise I run their corporation
for them.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Right on. I love the background of it all, and
it was all fate, just to follow your dream of
being your producer and becoming a manager. So I guess
where are we? Where are you in your life when
you cross paths with with West, who I know is
not a New Yorker, But I always felt when I
learned about him as a young guns Roses fan, a
(08:40):
little akin to him because I was raised Jewish. He's Jewish,
and I was like, he just seems like a I'm short,
he's he was short. I'm like, I kind of like yeah,
because you know, it sounds silly, but when you're I
guess a lot of people can identify with it. But
when you're a kid, you're looking at like who can
I look up to? Like me? You know, having Stephen Adler,
(09:02):
you know who's also Jewish? And then West hurtin right,
So I mean that was that was special. So you know,
I know it's a tragic tale and we'll get to
that to that, but I mean, how did your your
life cross paths with him? Do you know him before?
Did you work when you work with him? How did
you end up meeting West? Arkeen?
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Well, basically, I had a gentleman named Warren Croyle working
for me as a and R at Sonic Underground, and
uh he produced Godhead and a couple other people and
he kind of went off the tracks and lost control
of the situation with First of all, the singer, the
(09:44):
original singer in the Outpatients died right So Noel Golden,
who's a Canadian engineer that I know very well and
is a friend, was working with them, and they owed
a ton of cash. They owed like sixty K to
(10:06):
Rumbo Studios, which is where Guns n' Roses was recording
at the point, and basically the album was stuck in
the studio because they couldn't record, they couldn't finish. They
lost the singer, and West and I met while Warren
(10:29):
like just went out of the picture completely, kind of
just went through a personal crisis. So I got involved
with them with my partners actually in New York. I
called I had a company called Park Avenue Management at
(10:50):
that time with some pretty heavyweight people in New York,
and I Wes played me the album and I went, Wow,
this is an amazing album. This can't stay this way.
So I got together with him and Noel. We decided
to go look for a singer. Noel had a guy
(11:12):
named Michael Shotton out of Toronto, so I got on
the phone call I asked him I negotiated the whole thing. Basically,
I kept the band together by financing it. We paid
off the studio, We got the band a villa that
(11:37):
they stayed in together with West because West was on
the street. I mean, he was in bad shape, like
everything went wrong after the singer died. So then we
brought in. We brought the singer in, We auditioned him.
I took a couple took about a week, and then
finally Wes said, yeah, we can do it with this
(11:59):
guy if I you know, I just gotta I just
gotta make it work my way. So basically we then
recorded the album. And while we're recording the album, I
was doing a lot of business in Japan at the
time with because I also managed. At the same time,
(12:21):
I was managing Mother's Army, which is Joe, Lene Turner,
Bob Daisley, Jeff Watson and the drummer as well, Ansley Dunbar,
and so I got an idea and in Japan things
are very hard to do. It usually takes six months
(12:44):
to a year to make a record deal properly in Japan.
So what I did was I faxed two companies. I
was doing business with JBC and another company. I said, look,
I have an album. It's Western Guns and Roses number six.
It's got axel, it's got slash, it's got it's got
(13:08):
busy on it on different songs, and here's the record.
You have forty eight hours to make a deal because
that record company wants it, and that record company wants it.
And I said, and they said, so what's the price?
I said, two hundred and fifty thousand, So I said,
(13:29):
and I faxed them. I didn't talk to anyone because
if I had probably talked to them, I couldn't probably
pull it off. They would have heard it in my
voice like I know, this isn't for real. So I
rolled the dice. I rolled the dice, and I got
them the deal. I got them the deal for two
(13:50):
hundred and fifty k plus. We got We paid off
the studio, we paid the musicians, we paid the new
thing there we got. We're able to finance. We had
a plan of six months of housing and before they
went out on tour. And so the album was and
(14:13):
then I had it mastered by Eddie Schreier at Oasis Mastering,
who was my buddy. I'd go to hockey games with
him every week. So he was like my hockey buddy,
and so we sat and we made a phenomenal record
and then there was then there was the album cover
(14:37):
and Robert John was picked to do it, who had
done I had worked with John Robert on Rumble Train,
which was the guys from Rock City Angel and a
bunch of other bands that I managed at the time.
And West insisted that he wanted a monkey caged on
(15:01):
the album cover, and he wanted to. He showed me,
He goes, I want to. I want a monkey that's
like like this. I go, okay, man, So I'm like
making his dream come true. You know, I'm like okay.
So we Roberts, Robert John and I go to Venice.
We start setting up, we were start we were doing
(15:23):
the shoot before that part of it without West, before
West even got there, because we rented the The band
was coming in the afternoon. We had the monkeys in
the morning. So we're there with three trainers and I
send I send somebody out to get sandwiches for us.
(15:46):
And basically we we go through the monkeys and Robert
and I chose, oh, we want that one. That's the monkey.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
That's the monkey, and.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
It was the guy from It was a gray monkey
from some famous movie. I forget which movie. It is
sixth Sansor or some cricksy movie like that, and so
we bring him out. They bring him out. Now there's
three trainers, three trainers, right, and they make the monkey
(16:20):
put his hands on the bar, but the food comes
in at the same time and he goes and Robert goes, all,
let me get a polaroid. So we get a polaroid
of the monkey with the red background. It was phenomenal,
like it worked out. We were like, yeah, that's perfect,
(16:42):
let's eat and then we'll do the shoot properly and
let the monkey go back in the cage now. But
the monkey goes berserk and attacks both all the trainers
and gets away and gets away, and he's loose in
the whole complex. But the guy, the guy who brought
(17:03):
us the sandwiches went back out and locked us in
so we couldn't get out. What yeah, but it's like
high security stuff, you know, like the runner went out
with the keys, so we none of us could get
out of the building.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
What's that hard movie Chakma or whatever, I don't know, but.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Me and Robert John ended up in the kitchen hiding
in the corner going no, don't kill us. So if
you ever get to see the cover.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Of the Outface I have, it's in my I'm gonna
put it over as you know, when I put this out,
I'm gonna put the cover.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah you could the cover that's that is an actual polaroid.
That's the only shot we got of the monkeys at all.
And I mean one of the trainers ended up in
the hospital because the monkey was so powerful that he
bid through the steel gloves. That's how powerful it was.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
That's not it's not even like a you know, going
ape ship like an ape. You know, that's a monkey
that ship.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I love that there's a story about the monkey. I
was not expecting that. You know. Yeah, that's a choice.
And now see you wouldn't even get that story. Now
they would use a I create that. You know, they
would drown some river rather than drain some river, rather
than have this great monkey story.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
And like he wanted, you know, West and I worked
in a certain way. He's very magical in his wishes.
But there was always a reason behind now the Outpatients
was really his being that he was one of the
best drug writers of the time. Uh, like drug songs.
(18:52):
You know, was renowned for that, but this was like
his subberb after okay, And that's what's so epic about
the story and tragic about the story for me, because
I loved us with all my heart and we worked
(19:12):
two years together and it was on a daily basis,
and basically he was sober. He was going to meetings.
I was. I had him surrounded by great people. He
was going to the meetings. He was. He was a
stone cold sober. And basically I went on vacation on
(19:40):
Christmas vacation, and at the insistence of my girlfriend and
something told me not to do it. I came to
New York to have Christmas with my family in New
York and my daughter was in Buffalo, and you know,
my family in North Collbell, New Jersey, Bloomfield and New
(20:01):
York City itself. And I was like, ah, don't go,
don't go, because you know, the band went on Christmas vacation,
the singer went back to Toronto, the twins went to Pasadena
with their parents, and I knew that West was going
to be alone, and I was worried about that. But
(20:24):
what happened was he had a little Christmas party, let's say,
or a pre Christmas party. But there was a barbecue
inside the house, like in the like it was a big,
huge villa things, so it had like this barbecue inside
(20:45):
the house. And he loved to cook. West loved to cook,
so he's making the cooking, the cooking, and his neighbor
had West picked up the glass and by accident that
the neighbor had and it had ghb in it, and
(21:07):
he got wasted on it. He had not done touched
anything in two years. And basically what happened was he
forgot that the the gas was on, like he cooked,
(21:27):
he cooked, and then he left the gas on and
then he went to smoke cigarette and it blew up
on him and he went to the hospital and because
he was a heroine, you know, ex heroine at it,
they sent him home with Tylano. But he had second
(21:51):
and third degree burns and it was too much for him,
and no one was there taking care of and the
twins had come back, and they didn't know about it
very much because it was very quiet. And basically he
called this guy to get rid of the pain, and
the dose was just way too much and that's how
(22:11):
he gost and I was I, because I remember I
cut my trip short and I was praying, just praying,
because I as soon as I heard he was in hospital,
I took the plane home and on my way home,
(22:32):
I got home at seven in the morning and he
had died at four in the morning. So I was like,
it was super devastating for me. And then I had
never handled a death of an artist, so that was
that was very hard to do. And Duff and Noel
(22:55):
and the band, the Guns Band were very it have
been helping me deal with it, you know, And that's that.
I mean, we had already gone to Japan, done the
PR for a week. We'd done all the big PR stunts,
(23:15):
the comedy show, the you know, the big radio show,
you know, all the interviews and all that, and the
band was supposed to the record was in number three
when he passed away on the charts, and we were
preparing to tour to go and play Japan like eight
(23:40):
weeks later, two months later. So that's the story. That's
the Western Keen story. But you know, I mean, as
far as a person is concerned, the most magical moment
I ever had really in all of this. It wasn't
the trip to Japan. It wasn't the thing. It was
watching him right was the most magical thing for me.
(24:06):
I would go, you know, we had an apartment for
him before the villa, and he would He was writing
with a guy named jimbo Estrella. That was guy that
he wrote a lot of songs with and I he
invited me into the writing session one night, which he
(24:28):
never does, and I watching him, his soul just became
metaphysical when he was writing, and you were like so
touched by where he was going with the writing. The
soul with which he wrote was amazing.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
First, I'm sorry for your loss all these years later
of your friend the West. It's you know, I I
sit back here doing a G and R related podcast
and I never met these people, but I feel a
connection and you know they hear it from you, and
I appreciate the story and I know it's not I
know you're eager to share it, but I know it's
(25:11):
not easy. You know, I can hear in your voice
and see her in your face of how it still hurts,
and just so I don't forget the because you've mentioned
the twins a couple of times on the podcast. If
people want to look I actually have a West Arkeen
like interview collection that have things that I've done all
(25:33):
pre pandemics, and unfortunately they're all audio, but they do
pictures on it. And you go on YouTube with James
Hunting Yes and Greg and Greg Buckwalter, who were members
of the out Patients, and they both shared their uh
they're also they're they're their tale of this, and they
had not shared that. I forget, forgive me, I wish
(25:54):
I forgot if it was James or Jamie or Greg
that mentioned who found him. It was Jamie, Okay, I
had not. Yeah, the whole the whole fire thing is
very shocking and being sent home, you know, as I
started the episode off, you know, this is kind of
almost off the heels of the Billy McLeod episode and
(26:15):
how he had gotten straight, he had gotten sober and
then the hospital f him over, you know, and then
here's another situation where that happens. Yeah, and who knows
what what what could have happened if he was properly
medicated for his burns, just just just just awful.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Yeah, Well, Greg, talking about Greg bug Walter, he ended
up in the Outpatients because I had he was in
the band rumble Train, which was Barnes, Mike Barnes, Andy
Panic and Doug Banks from Rock City Angels with the
(26:59):
drum of Kats and Boots and a singer from Montreal.
But Greg was the keyboard player and that, you know,
one of the people that made it through was Doug Banks,
who I who I got straight off of off of
Smack and he was in the rumble Train thing. And
(27:21):
now he's a lawyer, so that makes me proud. He
called me a couple of weeks ago. I was like, dog,
you're a lawyer. That's amazing, goes Yeah, man, thanks, thanks
so much for saving my life.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
You know that says what kind of person you are. Well,
thanks for sharing that. Also a little tidbit there. You know,
I want to focus on you know, I know it's
at the end, we all know. I know you've revealed
more than I had been at least I had I
had known. But I want to focus on some fun things,
you know, good times that you had with with West.
(27:52):
You know, Greg told me, you know, part of the story,
or at least his version of it. Maybe you could
tell me more how West tricked or I don't know,
if you want to use that word Axel and Slash
to record on the same song without them knowing, because
at the time they all hated each other. Right, So
(28:13):
where did the Guns and Roses thing come into play?
Speaker 1 (28:15):
For you?
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Where he here's West starting his own band. And by
the way, I assume so with the outpatients, is for like, Okay,
I'm getting out of being a drug addict. I'm out
I'm an outpatient? Is that kind of how he viewed
It's own a little spelling, okay, just I didn't know
if that was overly obvious or it was something else. Uh,
but then he gets.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
All that, I imagine that was the method.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Thing, you know, but to get all the Guns and
Roses guys on it because there are some people like, hey,
this is my own thing, I don't need your help
kind of but that wasn't his. While he did do
his own thing, he had all these names say hey,
look is he's on this, Slashes on this, Axel, what
was how did that all come together? And what were
your interactions with the Guns and Roses or if you
(29:00):
had them while recording?
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Well from what I know, from what I know, Noel Golden,
who's who's the producer engineer on the on the out
Patients was also was also doing Daff Superman this that record.
(29:23):
So I remember going to the studio meeting Duff and
Noel and at the same night it was Marilyn Manson
had just finished their album. We walked out of the studio.
Marilyn Manson had just finished their album in the other
in the studio next to us, and on the lawn
(29:43):
they had put all the cabinets, all of their drums
and did a bonfire. We're like, what the heck is this?
Speaker 2 (29:56):
But at least it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
I think it's a combination of really, I mean West.
You have to understand the story with West West, how
guns and Roses came together. In the beginning is West
had an apartment he had worked. He just got off
the tour with sly Stone Slide couldn't bam or didn't
(30:23):
bam or whatever. So he got the A track He
gave him his A track recorder.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Don't I don't know. West was one tour with Slyestone.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
I feel like I I don't know why. Maybe I
forgot it.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Yeah, yeah, he was a guitar tak or something. He
was like, he wasn't like playing with him on the tour,
and as they get off the tour, he goes back
to his apartment and it's when the guns and Roses
things started happening. They were, you know, sleeping.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
On on on his floor and his apartment on some nights,
and he would do the demos.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
He would record the demos wore guns than roses while
they were forming the band, So there was like his
party place and they'd like pass out and then do
a song, and then they'd go out and play and
then they think. So there was a rich history with
the band and as Dove got his own thing going,
(31:33):
I think that Axel was still writing with with with
West at the time. Iazy was. He was closest with
Izzy as far as like, as far as I know
on a playing soul level, he was closer to Izzy
(31:56):
than anyone, Okay, though they all loved each other, you know,
That's why they called him gn R Number six. I
think Duff was very close with him as well, because
Duff was the first one to reach out to me
when this all went down, Okay, and he had just
(32:17):
moved to Seattle, so he couldn't be at the funeral
in time, and that was a whole other issue because
he was Jewish. He wanted to be buried, but he
had tattoos, so that was a big deal. So we
worked the way around that and God buried where he
(32:39):
wanted to be, next to us.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
So okay, good, Well, yeah, it's it's so funny. I
forget because tattoos are so common now. I even have
Hebrew patients on my arm.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
But it's an issue in the Hebrew community. I know.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
I'm not I'm not. I'm like a sign even though
I was Barmits. But all that stuff I'm gonna sign
called cultural. I'm not religious type. I mean, it's whatever
we don't need. We don't need to sidetracked that what
I want death, it was.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
It was something I was dealing with that.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
No, it's I understand, and I I appreciate your sharing
that little tidbit because that is something you know. It
is I follow west Uh, Like there's a Facebook page
and tribute to him, and like I think even in
the cover of the Facebook page is his plaque and
it has started David on there. So I mean to
know more history about somebody I can relate to. Andy,
(33:34):
I mean, his lawyer.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
And the family really insisted on that so it was
really something that West wished, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Good, cool, cool, That's that's you know, it's to get
the wishes that you want. I mean because I've I've
dealt with not getting the wishes people want and the
death maybe you have either. It's just an ugly, ugly situation.
So I'm glad that those that relatively went, uh all
things considered, but uh that the continue I guess with
the with the G and R thing. Uh, he has
(34:04):
this history with them, but again, did he want to
be like Okay, I have this history with them, but
why include them? You know, Greg made it be like aha,
you know, he knew they were going to break up,
like I'm going to have the last recording ever. You know,
that was kind of that's the way he beats West.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Well, that's the way. That's why Buckwalter is a little
bit you know. But I mean, we're we're where. I
think it was completely by accident. First of all, G
and R actual had a lockout at Brumbo at the
same time for years. I think he was at Rumbo
for five years during that recording, during that album with
(34:43):
Buckethead or whatever.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Okay, Chinese democracy.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yeah, Chinese democracy. That was like he had a lockout
for five years at Umbo and that's where we that's
where West recorded. So I think it was happenstance that
you know, maybe Axel flowed into the studio. They were
writing a song together and he said, hey, what do
(35:11):
you think you know? Could you you want to sing
on this? And then I don't know that the whole
story was slash and thing and all that, but I
know that once Axel did it, and I know that Duff.
I think Duff was the first one to do it, okay,
because Noel was playing it was the engineer and doing
(35:37):
his album. Okay, so that there there's the Dove connection,
you know.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
All right, and all retired.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
I've met with him a couple of times. He's one
of my favorite engineers ever. So but he's come to
Paris a couple of times with you had dinner. But
he really retired now okay officially about ten years ago.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Retired as in wouldn't do a podcast. He would do
a podcast, I just to fill in more of the wests.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
But he's a very private person, so maybe he might not.
Maybe I would respect that it's worth reaching out to him,
you know, But he's very closed.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
And I respect that because you know, I appreciate what
you know, Greg and Jamie and your sharing. And I
also interviewed his young I don't know how young he
is now, but his nephew, Casey, who is the son
of his sister. And there was a lot of family
which I unfortunately know about too after someone dies and
(36:41):
money and royalty all that stuff. And I'd be remiss
to say if I didn't say that. Abe Arkene didn't
reach out to me an email saying that he kind
of trying to set the record straight with money and
royalties and things like that. I offered him to come on,
you know, didn't want to, So I respect that just
but I just wanted to mention it. So I always
(37:02):
respect share.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
We were a little stunned, uh after the death that
the absolute first thing was the guitars that were asked for.
You know what I'm saying, Oh yeah, yeah, So I
(37:27):
was like, okay, but I think there was.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
But the lawyer.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
There was a lawyer involved who was very good. So
I mean, the guy who took care of West was
had his had his act together, so I think he
the things were done properly as far as concerned.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
What about the record itself, because I know, you know,
for a while you can find it online. Now you
can find that, you know YouTube. Is there any sort
of like who is it? Who owns the rights? So
you never know if something can be re released to
celebrate music, I mean, who's in charge of the outpatients,
any sort of you know, just wanting to keep his
(38:14):
music alive in any way possible and then just talking
about it. I don't know if that's something that it
has been spoken about at all.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Well, another deal with Japan is wasn't perpetuity for sure
because they paid so much money for it, but it
was a japan okay, so we had a bunch of
labels ready to sign it. But then he passed away,
so we didn't. Nobody signed it. And then Harley I
(38:45):
think his name is if I remember right, the lawyer
found a deal with the European label two years later
and then changed the cover and the thing of that.
But and they made it. They were the first ones
to make it digital. But I think there was a
clause in the contract where they had to sell x
(39:06):
amount of units or it reverted back, and I think
that's what happened, or the label that signed it went
bankrupt and it went back offline. But I just saw
the album on YouTube. I don't think it's.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Authorized, but right right, nothing's authorized.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
Nothing's authorized, And I don't know where the royalties are
funneling to. I know that Park Avenue Management, who that
I'm no longer a part of in New York, made
a deal to that once we recouped the substantial amount
(39:46):
of investment we made, all rights reverted back to the band,
which happened after which happened once the deal the album
was delivered, So there's no trace. I don't know who's
doing what, but in the digital age, I have no
(40:12):
I have no authority in the whole situation. So it's
the family.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Yeah, I would just I would assume, so uh just uh.
It was just a nice story, you know, to bring
it up again, because it's kind of like it's at
all that's again. Guns and Roses is the through line
through it all, but off the billiy McLeod story that
the royalties from yesterday's goes to his nieces and they
(40:44):
get paid still to this day two three times a
year from royalties to from yesterday's. So it's just it's
wonderful when you hear and she one of the daughters,
had reached out to me of Cynthia, one of his nieces,
saying that she's one They made a recorded version back
in the day when she was in a band, going
to try to find it. So I just always, you know,
keeping the music alive, keeping the spirit alive of a
(41:06):
life of a band that ended just way too soon,
you know, an adventure that ended way too soon.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
You know.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Any way to kind of relive it is what I
try to do because you know, there's there's a lot
of great We don't want these stories to go away,
you know, we don't want these people to be forgotten.
What What's What's something that you you think that maybe
you learned about Wes that we may not know. It's
like when you're like a fun you know, this was
(41:33):
like a really special moment, and you mentioned your writing,
but was there anything that maybe you should.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
And his his he had he had a he was
a deep romantic. You know, you can't write songs like
l O V e Are off of the out Patients
album if you're not a romantic. And watching him with
Wendy Lou because we did a whole shoot with her.
(42:00):
I don't know if she's included in the album where
she was dressed up as a nurse. But watching his
relationships with people, he was. He was real. He was genuine, personable, funny, loving.
It was he was. He was a good soul, you
(42:24):
know what I mean. And to watch him interact with
people was it was a lot of the fun. Like
if he was dealing with an idiot, he would deal
with them, but in a nice way, you know what
I mean. And he makes you laugh and did make
you laugh. You'd be laugh or you know, if he
(42:47):
was in a serious place, he could be you know,
mister superstar. Yeah, I can deal with that. You know.
He he had it together. He had a real and
he was fun. It was always fun, and you appreciated
all the people that were very talented. Like he took
(43:08):
me to see Abe Laboreal play one night in a
in a tiny dump of a club. He goes, Oh,
you got to come see this, You got to you
gotta see this guy. He's just the most amazing drummer.
I went, yeah, okay, drummer and drummer. I've seen a
million drummers, but I go to the club and I'm like,
(43:31):
Oh wow, that's a drummer. You know. It was his
passion for life, for people, for music, for and I
think he was really enjoying the sobriety of being present, yeah,
(43:52):
in his life. And he was present for his family,
his friends and supportive and just a really genuine guy,
you know.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
So it's wonderful to hear. And that's why, you know,
it's so many and endless stories of of our the
way human beings are sadly enough, but you have tragedies
like this, but you have you mentioned Uff before. He's
a survivor of it, slashes, a survivor of it. So
it's just like it's frustrating where it's like you were there,
(44:23):
you were you were there, you know, uh so, but
again I wasn't.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
I wasn't there during the party era. But my band,
the band Rumble Train, with Andy Panic and all the
guys from Rock City Angels, they were hanging out together
and they were while it was the wild times. They
would tell me stories. That's why Buck Walter knows so much,
so many stories about West it is because of the
(44:50):
Rock City Angels guys were hanging out at his house.
He was like, the I forget what they called it.
It was like the Animal House also okay or something
like that. But everybody in Hollywood would go to West's house.
All the rock stars would go to West House and
party until six am after the club's closed. So I
(45:15):
didn't know him during that era, you know. And Bobby
Carlton and Mercury was was the one that helped him
get sober. And unfortunately Bobby passed away this year. And
he was a dear, dear friend of mine.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
And I saw him. I saw him in Paris. It
was like, what the hell are you doing? Well.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
I appreciate you sharing all these stories about your friend.
I know you were his manager, but I want to
say your friend West Arkeen. Yeah. I also appreciate you
wearing your guns to Roses shirt. I know it's a
little dark if you're watching this on YouTube, so I
just want to call attention Dan. He dressed for the occasion. Yes,
the appetite shirt.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
In the Vibe got to be in the Vibe.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
My two year old actually has the same shirt. I
got to post that picture. He looks like Kirk Cobean actually,
long blonde hair, plannel and guns and Roses shir Yeah,
but we were able to speak so long as out he's
right now out with his with his mom before we
do leave. Because did you g ever? I know you
didn't know West at that time, but what about GNR?
(46:24):
Have you ever got to see them live or other
than the interactions you spoke about with Dauphin, anything else
that maybe we should uncover.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Oh, I was at the legendary show at the LA
Coliseum where they went off.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
Oh, people don't stop dancing with mister Brown.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
But I would see GNR in the clubs, you know,
I was. I mean, I've been managing bands. I was
managing bands in La. I'm nineteen years old, so still
kid Rocker, which was CC Deville on guitar, and I
let CC go to Poison based on the fact that
(47:06):
I would have first DIBs on the management before how
I got involved, And I brought my dad's ex partner
in Larry Robbins, because they said, well, you're nineteen years old.
We can't just have you have great ideas and everything,
but we need somebody legit. So I brought my dad's
(47:28):
ex partner in Larry Robbins, and I go, these guy's
going to be it. Man. You know, I'm going to
put them on the road. They're going to play every
little club and we'll build it. We'll build it. He goes,
are you crazy they can't even play? Or no, no, no,
I'm not doing this. So that's how I ended up
(47:48):
not managing Poison.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Was this before after Bicky Hamilton? I'm assuming before.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
It was before? Yeah, but then they had the pubblic
that they always had at that time, and that's how
I knew them. Well. I knew them through CC, but
Cecy had a contract with me on a management contract
because I was co managing with manager of the manager
(48:19):
of Kiss.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
I forget his name, Doc McGee.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
No, the other one, the original one.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
Oh no, I'm not original manager of Kiss. I can
google that. I'm a G and R guy, not a
Kiss guy. Anyway, They Billy A Coin Bill Coin, so
I called him Billy like I know him. But yeah
(48:47):
a lot of people call him Billy.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Yeah. So I was co managing Kid Rocker with Bill
O Cooin and am. I wanted to sign the band
if the singer lost uh fifteen pounds or twenty pounds,
that was the deal. Like, we'll give him thirty days,
we'll give you thirty days he loses the way we
signed the band. Okay, so I said him. At the time,
(49:13):
they had those gyms where you had the electronic pulse things.
So I kept sending him to thing and he wasn't
losing the weight, and I was like, what is happening?
And then Cecy knocks on my door one night, comes
to my office. He goes, bro, I love you, man,
(49:35):
but I have an opportunity to go play with Poison
and Jimmy is never going to lose the weight. I go,
why he goes, because you send him to this thing.
And then he goes across the street to the McDonald's.
Speaker 4 (49:52):
And pigs out and he'll never lose the weight. He
didn't do that part of it. He's going to the gym,
but they didn't go to McDonald's and I went, uh, okay.
And then it was like the last week of the
my deal. I said, okay, I'll let you out of
the contract to go with the Poison, but you got
(50:12):
to give me give me first, and they did a
showcase for me.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
It's near Paramount and.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
Uh, anyway, you're ducks in a row and it seems
like in your your own album and your friends are
on it, and then you know what, I'm not even
saying I've done that when I'm not paying attention. I
can't believe I left the gas on once. I'm I
can't believe, like nightmares about it, I did that once.
But so I'm like now like O c D about it.
(50:41):
So it's just awful. But that's where it started.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
If if he had not let his neighbor in, you know,
and and taking a sip of his class. I know
it was so non deliberate and he was stone cold
sober at the time.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
Right right right, because he wasn't thinking straight. That's the key,
and I hate that. Maybe it goes full circle. I now,
I just think of that Seinfeld episode because I know
this is not a funny situation. But I don't know
if you remember that Seinfeld when they switched drinks and
it was an early earlier But I digress. But either way,
you know, just stand there. On a positive note, I
appreciate you sharing this story. You know, I love talking
(51:25):
about west Arkeen because he's written some brilliant music. A
chance to talk about the outpatients because it's not a
household name like Guns n' Roses. So you know, Dan,
it didn't.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
Get its real chance, you know, I mean, it's striven
to be at number three on the Japanese charts, getting
ready to tour and showcase the lapels in the States,
and boom, it's over. You know I was. It took me.
It took me a long time to get over it.
(51:57):
You know, I've had I've had a couple of in
my career as a manager. For example, a couple of
years ago, I took a band from the garage to
health Fest in a year and a half.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
Right, well, okay, I get.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
To health Fest, I go backstage and the man goes, sorry, man,
we need bigger management. And I was like what. So
I was like, okay, one of my clients that are
for twenty seven years kind of thing, you know what
I mean. So I went, I took a year off
(52:43):
of management completely. I just said, why do I want
to manage anymore? And all that.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
But when I came treated like that, yeah really yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:52):
So but when I came back into management, everybody thinks
it's you know, I picked the name bigger Management, not
because of because it's I have a big ego. I
picked it because no one is ever going to tell
me that ever again. No one's gonna tell me I
need bigger management ever again.
Speaker 2 (53:13):
I was like, you literally are bigger management?
Speaker 1 (53:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (53:16):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (53:17):
Yeah. Yeah, So that's the inside joke on bigger management.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
Oh no, that's a great segue too, because I was
gonna just wrap up, wrap up by saying, you know
what do you have to promote bigger management? Are you
still DJing across Paris or you know what?
Speaker 1 (53:33):
I was staring for like ten years as a DJ
under the name of the Stereo Flow I was, you know,
I'm playing America and Canada and uh, Europe. I stopped
doing that. I'm back into production. I'm doing a band
called The Whispering. I'm finishing the final mix right now.
(53:55):
Who I also manage it, which is uh and it's
a Dirk b Burn from Megadeath on drums. But there's
also Tobias Kelgrin from Dissection on the other half of
the album on drums. And then it's the bass player
from Scarf Lowi Colin and Lucien full from La a
(54:19):
new singer guitar player that's projects awesome. I'm producing a
managing a band called Max Chaos out of Toronto, that's
we were on the charts again. The record came out.
The single came out right away on June thirteenth, and
(54:39):
then stayed on the charts for peaked at number eleven,
stayed on the charts for twelve fifteen weeks. So we're now,
I guess start mixing the rest of the album next
week and very cool. I an artist that I was
thinking of how I miss West, kind of like wrap
it all around, you know what I mean is where
(55:02):
I miss West as well as I have this artist
Nick Hennon out of Toronto, who's kind of like country
pop but very soulful. I'm like, Wow, if I had
if I had West, I can't tell you how many
nights I'm like, if I had West writing with Nick,
(55:22):
because Nick has a voice, like a voice that that
West would just fall in love with him and write
right for him. You know, I was like, I missed
with so much that way. You know what I'm saying.
He could pull out a number one song like this. Here,
here's a song.
Speaker 2 (55:39):
It's so easy. Literally. I love that. I love the
fact that you still think of him in that in
that way. Within your current work. You know, any of
the bands or any of yours. You want me to
share because put in the summary the show notes, So
just send my way, you know. And I think it
just might be kind of Crazier things have happened. Maybe
(56:00):
just maybe we can get yesterday's the charts all these
years later, to honor Billy, to honor West. Crazier things
have happened. I didn't rage get Killing in the name
of the chart years later and Phemian rhaps City. When
Wayne World came out, it charted again. I know it
was a small little podcast. Crazier things have happened, though,
(56:21):
But listen to yesterday's Remember Billy, Remember West. I don't know,
remember the good the good times.
Speaker 1 (56:28):
Maybe I could do a dance remix, get a europlay,
do what.
Speaker 2 (56:33):
I think that would be cool.
Speaker 1 (56:34):
I've been hearing a lot of I've been hearing a
lot of rock stuff getting remixed because one Garcia and
I once from the guitar player from Agent Steele, who
I first beat I managed. He's in BodyCount now okay yeah,
and he DJs. So he was like, let's do this project, man,
(56:57):
Let's let's remix all the great rocks on. So I
think it's I think there's a possibility that can happen
one day. Okay, okay, you have to have a reason
to get something out and yeah yeah yeah, so if
someone can talk to.
Speaker 2 (57:15):
I don't know if that's it's so hard. We got
they got him to do a comic book. I don't
know about music. Yeah, yeah, he's putting out a graphic novel,
believe or not. Axl Rose is going to live on
in comic book form. But we'll see what happens with music.
But that's a story for He needs West, he needs West,
he needs Yeah, he's a character for sure. Recipees, West
(57:37):
ur Keen and Billy McCloud. Just because you're on my brain, Dan,
just thank you so much for your time and appreciate
you sharing your uh this story and just hanging out
with us, and anytime you want to come back, you
know U any more West stories, any more gn R stories.
You're like, oh, I forgot to tell you please. Yeah,
You're always welcome to come back on.
Speaker 1 (57:55):
I will do that, I think, uh, And I appreciate.
Speaker 2 (57:59):
You having me And I know you were looking for
pictures of you and West. I know at you said
a lot of them he lost in a fire, which
is awful.
Speaker 1 (58:07):
Yeah, unfortunately. You know, five years ago, I had a
fire while I was at a concert and I lost
every picture. I lost all my computers and it's just terrible.
Speaker 2 (58:22):
But I'm sorry to bring that up.
Speaker 1 (58:25):
I had a box, a specific box of all the
photos of Mike, Shotton, West and I in Japan with
the record company that the record company had put together
for me and put book and sent it to me.
And that was one of my irrevocable losses that from
(58:49):
my God.
Speaker 2 (58:50):
We actually, my wife and I we just ordered like windows,
fireproof blankets to put things in. You know, we just
hear stories like yours. I mean awful. So anyway, I
keep saying I'm end up positive nowhere, I keep ruining
it anyway, and just thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (59:06):
Let's see what we can do about yesterday's.
Speaker 2 (59:10):
Yeah, yeah, I know, let's let's listen to it today.
So you enjoyed the night in Paris?
Speaker 1 (59:15):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (59:15):
That does it for this episode of Appetite for Distortion?
When will you see the next one? In the words
of AXL Rose, concerning Chinese democracy, I don't know as
soon as the word, but you'll see it.
Speaker 1 (59:24):
Thanks to the lame as security. I'm going home
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