September 19, 2025 • 19 mins
Dynamic and debonair, Cesar Romero was best known for creating the role of the Joker in the 1960s Batman television series. As the first actor to play Batman and Robin's villainous nemesis, Romero established the character's giddy, manic tone and the distinctive laugh that subsequent actors like Jack Nicholson, Heath Ledger, and Joaquin Phoenix would use as the starting points in their own Oscar-nominated (Nicholson) and Oscar-winning (Ledger and Phoenix) performances. As a closeted gay man of Latin American descent, Romero gracefully faced many personal challenges while maintaining his suave public image and starring opposite legends ranging from Shirley Temple to Marlene Dietrich, Carmen Miranda to Frank Sinatra, and Kurt Russell to Jane Wyman.The first biography of the consummate entertainer, Cesar Romero: The Joker Is Wild, captures the critical moments of Romero's childhood, adolescence, and accomplishments in Hollywood. Author Samuel Garza Bernstein shares anecdotes regarding Romero's public and personal life, as well as Romero's private disdain for his reputation as the "Latin lover," a discriminatory stereotype he found constrictive both in terms of his range as an actor and as a man who kept his sexuality private.Cesar Romero is an in-depth study of a significant Hollywood star and his impact on the entertainment industry. Batman made him immortal, but with more than four hundred film and television credits, his six-decade career as an actor, dancer, and singer made him a true Hollywood icon."If you're a fan of classic movies, Hollywood's star-studded golden age, comic book superheroes like Batman, and (along with Darth Vader and the Wicked Witch of the West) one of the three greatest villains in cinema history, the Joker, you'll applaud and even maniacally cackle at this in-depth revelation of the utterly true story of Cesar Romero. And that's no joke!" -Michael Uslan, Originator and Executive Producer of the Batman movie franchise.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, good morning. How are you doing, Samuel.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I'm well, how are you?
Speaker 3 (00:04):
Absolutely fantastic and very excited to share a conversation with you,
because I'll tell you what, And I can't be the
only one a child from the sixties and seventies that
we knew Caesar Romero as the Joker, whereas my parents
knew him as somebody else. And I swear that was
a division line between mom and dad and me, and
it was like, no, no, my man is better than
your man. And because he's the joker, Mom.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Well, and they're remembering him dancing with Carmen Miranda on
a shootout with Randolph Scott. You know there, it's a
whole different image.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Well, you're giving us something very special to hold on
to to here, because we're talking about a man that
made his mark in the entertainment industry and you're refusing
to let it go away. And I love you for
that because we need to be doing this. We have
to know where we are today by observing and honoring
those that were here before us.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I couldn't agree more. I think we learn about ourselves,
we learn about our own futures by realizing how people
put their own lives together in these other eras. And
you know, for Caesar to come through sixty years of
a career playing all kinds of characters, that's how you know.
(01:20):
That kind of work ethic, that kind of stick touitiveness
is how you create a legendary character like the Joker.
It doesn't come out of nowhere.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Now a book like this. Are we going to see
it inside comic bookstores? Because I want listeners to be
able to get their hands on this book and really
treat it like the iconic thing that it is.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Well, I think it is available in some Jay and
Silent Bob's in Red Bank, New Jersey. I was just
there last week and oh my gosh, forty fifty people
came by to get the book and to have some
conversations about The Joker. And yeah, I mean, I hope
(02:02):
that it appeals to a lot of different groups, to
people who are very into Batman, but also people who
are very into classic Hollywood, or people who are into
nighttime soap operas who remember Falcon Crest with a lot
of affection.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
But see, that's what I love about what you have
done with this book is that you understand the multiple
layers of this man's personality and production wherever he is
that he could show up. And the thing is, though,
is that you're honoring that by showcasing to us that, hey, look,
you don't have to stop at one role, keep growing.
You're going to get more if you work hard at it.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Well, and I do I take it as a very
serious responsibility to go at creating these stories and recreating
these stories with respect and with you know, kind of
a generosity of spirit instead of you know, I'm so
(02:55):
tired of irony. I'm so tired of everybody looking back
and just trashing things. You know, the work that he
did was fantastic. And I don't think that that we
that we get anything in this life if we don't
look back at the past with a sense of wonder
(03:18):
and curiosity.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Yeah, Because I mean with with Antenna TV, ME TV
and we TV, I mean we're seeing Batman return to
television in ways that inspire you know, Generation Alpha. I
mean they're sitting there watching and going who is this guy?
And all of a sudden, your book is now coming
out about the Joker.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Well, and the show itself is such a meta commentary
on pop culture that I mean, in some respects it
could have been made right now, you know, and and
I you know, I think origin stories are so much
at the heart of the superhero universe right now. And
(03:57):
you know, I think of this as the Joker's origins
story in terms of performance.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
So, now, why is it that as a kid, I
wasn't horrified to watch the Joker on Batman? And yet
if I see Joaquin Phoenix today, I still get the
who oh, my gods.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Well, it's a the character has definitely taken a turn
over the years, and you know, I think that's just
as valid as any journey that you know that a
that a franchise takes over many decades. It's certainly my
favorite is is Caesar Romero is the Joker? And you
(04:39):
know Rolling Stone agreed in twenty nineteen they talked about
his lasting legacy and all of the performances of the
actors that come after him.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah, don't you think that that Caesar Romero is one
of the greatest facial actors of all time? Because I know,
even away from Joker, I would sit there and watch
his eyes, watch his face. I mean, he really brought
his face into the storyline.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
He absolutely did. And one of the things I mean,
as much as there's so much movement in the performance
as the Joker, what you really see that's remarkable is
how still he can actually be sometimes and taking the
moment in and waiting to do the reaction. And I
think that stillness was one of the real qualities in
(05:26):
his work that was to his advantage, because you know,
if you're still, people are looking at you to see
what you're going to do next. And I think that
was a real feature of him, of the way he worked.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Did you go into this writing project as a student
knowing that there was going to be a lot of
oh my god moments?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Well, I hoped there would be, And of course I
watched every movie of his that I could get my
hands on, and you know, there's there's as that you
start to feel to somebody when you spend that much
time with them and reading their correspondence and reading all
(06:08):
of the press stuff. And you know, I mean, I'm
not ashamed to say I kind of fell in love, yes,
And you know, I just think he was a remarkable
man who had a remarkable career.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Now do you think you fell in love because this
man was in love with entertainment and he was willing
to give himself to it so that we on the
opposite side of that screen had our escape. Because I mean,
it just seems like that this man was flawless, But
I know, deep inside when you go into this book,
that flawlessness, I don't know. He was very human.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah, he was very human. And you know, I think, well,
he was definitely private about his sexual orientation and that
was not something that people talked about in those years.
It would have ended his career and it was illegal,
you know. I mean, it was just a very very
different time. But I do think that he lived a
(07:04):
very authentic life. He never got married, he never spread
fake stories about different romances. The fact of the matter is, though,
that he loved going out on the town and dancing
with all of his friends. And all of his friends
were these beautiful, sexy, vibrant actresses like Joan Crawford and
(07:25):
Carol Lombard and Man Sheridan, And so what the public
saw was this man having the time of his life
and the arms of beautiful women, and that was real.
It may not have been sexual, but it was real.
And I think that authenticity worked very much to his advantage.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
You bring up Joan Crawford. You wrote a book about
Joan Crawford, and I want to thank you for that.
And the reason why is because we need to know
the real story. We don't need to know the Hollywood
two hour motion picture where we had stuff as much
as we could into that into that camera. But the
thing is is that I love the way that you
dig in way where you're thinking about us, or at
least it feels like you're thinking about us.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I am. I mean, why I write about somebody if
I'm not thinking about what am I communicating to my readers?
And with Joan, you know, there's there are reasons why
we still talk about this woman that have nothing to
do with Mommy dearest. And you know, I think that
looking at the cultural effect that she had on the country,
(08:30):
on American women, on the entertainment business, I think is
it's just a fascinating way to look at somebody who
has been turned into something of a caricature. But at
her height. I mean, she wore a dress in a
movie in nineteen thirty two, and a million women across
(08:50):
the world war copies of that dress. You know, she
was so so important and influential in her day. And
I really wanted to explore that, you know, maybe she
wasn't a great mother. I wasn't there, but I don't
think that's what we need to remember her for.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Please do not move. There's more with Samuel Garza Bernstein
coming up next. The name of the book Caesar Romero
the Joker Wild from Samuel Garza Bernstein. So, now, how
is it that you're able to get to the source
of the information? I always call it the vein of gold,
and when you get there, you know it, and that
that's where you start tapping in and getting stuff that's
(09:34):
not clickbait, it's actual factual material.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Well, part of that is by asking questions. You know,
there's a lot of there's a lot of firsts. The
first movie that did this, the first actor who did this,
the first one who did that. And anytime I hear
a first, I kind of go, is it yeah? And
so any time that there are these kind of absolute
(09:59):
states that people make, it's always it's just my nature
to wonder, is that really true? And then sometimes you
find that it absolutely is true. But a lot of
the time you find out that it's a very reductive
or simplistic. Look at you know, these people were real,
(10:19):
they were human beings. They had lives, they had creative lives,
and if we don't ask those questions, then we're just
turning them into these two dimensional objects. And I want
to know who these people actually were.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
One of the things that the conversations that I had
with my father about Caesar Rameiro was the fact that
he always used to tell me when we were watching
regular TV with him, just as an actor, which is
more than more than most of us can do, but
just as an actor, he says, he would say, you
need to pay attention to the way Caesar is talking
with people. He respects everybody around him when he's telling
this storyline, and he says, especially women, he respects women.
(11:00):
You need to pay attention to Caesar Romero.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
I think that is so true and really wise of
your father to pick up on that that Caesar listened
to people. Yes, he asked you a question and he
listened to the answer because he was interested in other people.
And boy, I wish I wish we all had that
(11:25):
quality now that we could listen a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Now. When you were doing the research, did you get
any recordings with conversations and stuff, because I mean, everything
that you've got here the makings of a podcast or
a gigantic Netflix or Hulu special here.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Well, you know, we have talked about that this could be,
you know, kind of a limited series, and I'm really
exploring that idea of you know, as I moved forward
with the project. Yeah, I mean there's there's a lot
of material here. There's a lot uh that says a
(12:02):
lot about I mean what we call today intersectionality. Like
you're looking at somebody who was rich as a child,
then poor than did Okay, You're looking at somebody who
was Latino but didn't really identify as Latino, and yet
his four bears were, his grandfather was a national hero
(12:23):
in Cuba. You have all of these different intersections of
identity that you know that he never really thought about
at the time. But he was doing what we in
modern terms called code switching all the time.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
You're gonna think I'm a freak. I did not see
Latino in him when I was a kid. It was
Caesar Romero. I mean I I saw him and and
and and and that, and maybe that's the way I
am even today. When I see an actress or an actress,
it's like I see you for you. I don't I
don't know what your background is.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Well, you know, I think that that's true, and he
definitely made a career out of being able to do book. Yeah,
he could play the quote unquote exotic because that's how
people thought of, you know, foreigners. They loved the words
exotic and sworethy, and so he would play those guys.
But he also played a lot of characters who were
(13:21):
just guys. You know, they were Anglo guys who got
the girl or didn't get the girl, or did the
shootout or didn't do the shootout, or you know, killed
somebody or got killed. You know, all the different plotlines
of all the different genres that he played in, they're
really they absolutely go beyond things like ethnicity or any
(13:45):
kind of pigeonholing.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Did you have to get permission to write this book?
Because I mean everything seems to be owned by somebody
these days, and it's like, okay, I'm going to write
a book about Caesar Rameiro. Oh, well, we owned the
rights to Caesar Ramero. Oh I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
No, he doesn't have that kind of protection that the
Marilyn Monroe estate or the Elvis estate has at all.
And you know, he was a public figure, and the
First Amendment gives us the right to write about public figures.
But you know, this is very much a celebration of
(14:22):
his life, and you know, I'm not really interested in
tearing it apart or muck raking. You know, that just
doesn't interest me. What interest to me is like what
drove a person to their creative limits, to their creative
you know, extremes, what pushed them, what drove them, And
(14:47):
in Caesar's case, I think he just had a remarkable
run over so many decades, and he really earned all
of the acclaim that he got.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
I would love to record readers as they go through
this book, just to find out what kind of sounds
they make as they page through the book, because I
was sitting there and I caught myself going.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Huh oh really, oh, come on, what I mean?
Speaker 3 (15:11):
It's like this book actually creates conversation off the page
with yourself.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Well, you know, that's really how I like to write.
And from a technical standpoint, I write in present tense.
You know, I write like this is happening right now,
because that's how we tell stories to each other. We
don't say, you know, I went to a restaurant yesterday
we say, so I'm at this restaurant and this guy
(15:38):
comes up and wouldn't you know, you know, that's how
we talk, and you know that to me is part
of bringing people from the past, making them alive.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Oh my god, you just kind of put a chill
through my spine because you said in the past, and
yet but I seem today on TV. So as far
as I'm concerned, Caesar is still part of mine now.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
And he will live forever. I mean, if all the
other movies fade into dust, he will always be the joker.
And I think people will recognize that picture and that
laugh and that performance for as long as humanity lasts,
I think Caesar will last.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Now, what did you learn doing this project? Because the
more you dig into Caesar Romero more, the more you're
going to realize it he inspired other people to do
the same thing. Are you seeing the remnants of Caesar
Romero and other actors?
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Absolutely? I mean, you know, the funny thing I was
just thinking about this this morning is like, who what
career do I think he might have today? And I
was looking at somebody like Coleman Domingo, who plays so
many different characters, is very you know, out and proud
and married to a man. But he plays romantic characters
(16:57):
with women. He plays all kinds of roles, and I
like to think that Caesar would have kind of the
the versatility and the joy in his career that Coleman
Domingo has.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
All Right, before we even let you go, we got
to talk about that book cover. I've been waiting now
for the entire thing to talk to you about it,
because that book cover is priceless. And are you going
to be marketing that? Because I mean merch is merch
and that I really think that with your signature on
a poster with that book cover, oh god my oh
oh oh.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Well, you know, the artwork is from a French pop
artist grographic artist named Pure Macan, and I think she
did a beautiful job of bringing together kind of the
wild fantasy with the fun and the joy and the
entertainment value. I have been at my live events. I
(17:48):
have been handing out mugs and tote bags and t shirts. Now,
I don't know if we're she's going to ever go
you know, wider, but we'll have to see.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Wow, where can people go to find out more about you? Samuel?
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Because I love your passion and I love your storytelling
storytelling capability because you totally get the full division.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Well, I really really do enjoy this world. I'm at
Samuelgarzabernstein dot com.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
You can find me.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
I'm also doing the fourth season of an upcoming TV
show for Amazon called After Forever. I'll be the showrunner
and co executive producer, and that's coming in twenty twenty six.
I also have a book about Roddy McDowell coming out
in twenty six.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
See there's another mystery character right there, man, because so
many people have their own images of the man that's
in the monkey costume, but there's more to him than that.
He's a former child actor, dude.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
Oh, I mean, he was as big as Shirley Temple
in his moment, and he was kind of the face
of British war relief during World War Two, and he
was a huge star and also had this very very
long career where he was able to play all kinds
of different things. So it's you know, you've got Planet
of the Apes, and you've got Cleopatra, and you've got
(19:10):
Fright Night, but you also go all the way back
to How Green was My Valley, which won Best Picture
in nineteen forty one.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Wow, well I can't wait to talk to you about that.
So please come back to this show. The door is
always going to be open for you. Samuel, my pleasure.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Will you be brilliant today? Okay, thanks,
Hey, good morning. How are you doing, Samuel.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I'm well, how are you?
Speaker 3 (00:04):
Absolutely fantastic and very excited to share a conversation with you,
because I'll tell you what, And I can't be the
only one a child from the sixties and seventies that
we knew Caesar Romero as the Joker, whereas my parents
knew him as somebody else. And I swear that was
a division line between mom and dad and me, and
it was like, no, no, my man is better than
your man. And because he's the joker, Mom.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Well, and they're remembering him dancing with Carmen Miranda on
a shootout with Randolph Scott. You know there, it's a
whole different image.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Well, you're giving us something very special to hold on
to to here, because we're talking about a man that
made his mark in the entertainment industry and you're refusing
to let it go away. And I love you for
that because we need to be doing this. We have
to know where we are today by observing and honoring
those that were here before us.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I couldn't agree more. I think we learn about ourselves,
we learn about our own futures by realizing how people
put their own lives together in these other eras. And
you know, for Caesar to come through sixty years of
a career playing all kinds of characters, that's how you know.
(01:20):
That kind of work ethic, that kind of stick touitiveness
is how you create a legendary character like the Joker.
It doesn't come out of nowhere.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Now a book like this. Are we going to see
it inside comic bookstores? Because I want listeners to be
able to get their hands on this book and really
treat it like the iconic thing that it is.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Well, I think it is available in some Jay and
Silent Bob's in Red Bank, New Jersey. I was just
there last week and oh my gosh, forty fifty people
came by to get the book and to have some
conversations about The Joker. And yeah, I mean, I hope
(02:02):
that it appeals to a lot of different groups, to
people who are very into Batman, but also people who
are very into classic Hollywood, or people who are into
nighttime soap operas who remember Falcon Crest with a lot
of affection.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
But see, that's what I love about what you have
done with this book is that you understand the multiple
layers of this man's personality and production wherever he is
that he could show up. And the thing is, though,
is that you're honoring that by showcasing to us that, hey, look,
you don't have to stop at one role, keep growing.
You're going to get more if you work hard at it.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Well, and I do I take it as a very
serious responsibility to go at creating these stories and recreating
these stories with respect and with you know, kind of
a generosity of spirit instead of you know, I'm so
(02:55):
tired of irony. I'm so tired of everybody looking back
and just trashing things. You know, the work that he
did was fantastic. And I don't think that that we
that we get anything in this life if we don't
look back at the past with a sense of wonder
(03:18):
and curiosity.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Yeah, Because I mean with with Antenna TV, ME TV
and we TV, I mean we're seeing Batman return to
television in ways that inspire you know, Generation Alpha. I
mean they're sitting there watching and going who is this guy?
And all of a sudden, your book is now coming
out about the Joker.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Well, and the show itself is such a meta commentary
on pop culture that I mean, in some respects it
could have been made right now, you know, and and
I you know, I think origin stories are so much
at the heart of the superhero universe right now. And
(03:57):
you know, I think of this as the Joker's origins
story in terms of performance.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
So, now, why is it that as a kid, I
wasn't horrified to watch the Joker on Batman? And yet
if I see Joaquin Phoenix today, I still get the
who oh, my gods.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Well, it's a the character has definitely taken a turn
over the years, and you know, I think that's just
as valid as any journey that you know that a
that a franchise takes over many decades. It's certainly my
favorite is is Caesar Romero is the Joker? And you
(04:39):
know Rolling Stone agreed in twenty nineteen they talked about
his lasting legacy and all of the performances of the
actors that come after him.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah, don't you think that that Caesar Romero is one
of the greatest facial actors of all time? Because I know,
even away from Joker, I would sit there and watch
his eyes, watch his face. I mean, he really brought
his face into the storyline.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
He absolutely did. And one of the things I mean,
as much as there's so much movement in the performance
as the Joker, what you really see that's remarkable is
how still he can actually be sometimes and taking the
moment in and waiting to do the reaction. And I
think that stillness was one of the real qualities in
(05:26):
his work that was to his advantage, because you know,
if you're still, people are looking at you to see
what you're going to do next. And I think that
was a real feature of him, of the way he worked.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Did you go into this writing project as a student
knowing that there was going to be a lot of
oh my god moments?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Well, I hoped there would be, And of course I
watched every movie of his that I could get my
hands on, and you know, there's there's as that you
start to feel to somebody when you spend that much
time with them and reading their correspondence and reading all
(06:08):
of the press stuff. And you know, I mean, I'm
not ashamed to say I kind of fell in love, yes,
And you know, I just think he was a remarkable
man who had a remarkable career.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Now do you think you fell in love because this
man was in love with entertainment and he was willing
to give himself to it so that we on the
opposite side of that screen had our escape. Because I mean,
it just seems like that this man was flawless, But
I know, deep inside when you go into this book,
that flawlessness, I don't know. He was very human.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah, he was very human. And you know, I think, well,
he was definitely private about his sexual orientation and that
was not something that people talked about in those years.
It would have ended his career and it was illegal,
you know. I mean, it was just a very very
different time. But I do think that he lived a
(07:04):
very authentic life. He never got married, he never spread
fake stories about different romances. The fact of the matter is, though,
that he loved going out on the town and dancing
with all of his friends. And all of his friends
were these beautiful, sexy, vibrant actresses like Joan Crawford and
(07:25):
Carol Lombard and Man Sheridan, And so what the public
saw was this man having the time of his life
and the arms of beautiful women, and that was real.
It may not have been sexual, but it was real.
And I think that authenticity worked very much to his advantage.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
You bring up Joan Crawford. You wrote a book about
Joan Crawford, and I want to thank you for that.
And the reason why is because we need to know
the real story. We don't need to know the Hollywood
two hour motion picture where we had stuff as much
as we could into that into that camera. But the
thing is is that I love the way that you
dig in way where you're thinking about us, or at
least it feels like you're thinking about us.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I am. I mean, why I write about somebody if
I'm not thinking about what am I communicating to my readers?
And with Joan, you know, there's there are reasons why
we still talk about this woman that have nothing to
do with Mommy dearest. And you know, I think that
looking at the cultural effect that she had on the country,
(08:30):
on American women, on the entertainment business, I think is
it's just a fascinating way to look at somebody who
has been turned into something of a caricature. But at
her height. I mean, she wore a dress in a
movie in nineteen thirty two, and a million women across
(08:50):
the world war copies of that dress. You know, she
was so so important and influential in her day. And
I really wanted to explore that, you know, maybe she
wasn't a great mother. I wasn't there, but I don't
think that's what we need to remember her for.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Please do not move. There's more with Samuel Garza Bernstein
coming up next. The name of the book Caesar Romero
the Joker Wild from Samuel Garza Bernstein. So, now, how
is it that you're able to get to the source
of the information? I always call it the vein of gold,
and when you get there, you know it, and that
that's where you start tapping in and getting stuff that's
(09:34):
not clickbait, it's actual factual material.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Well, part of that is by asking questions. You know,
there's a lot of there's a lot of firsts. The
first movie that did this, the first actor who did this,
the first one who did that. And anytime I hear
a first, I kind of go, is it yeah? And
so any time that there are these kind of absolute
(09:59):
states that people make, it's always it's just my nature
to wonder, is that really true? And then sometimes you
find that it absolutely is true. But a lot of
the time you find out that it's a very reductive
or simplistic. Look at you know, these people were real,
(10:19):
they were human beings. They had lives, they had creative lives,
and if we don't ask those questions, then we're just
turning them into these two dimensional objects. And I want
to know who these people actually were.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
One of the things that the conversations that I had
with my father about Caesar Rameiro was the fact that
he always used to tell me when we were watching
regular TV with him, just as an actor, which is
more than more than most of us can do, but
just as an actor, he says, he would say, you
need to pay attention to the way Caesar is talking
with people. He respects everybody around him when he's telling
this storyline, and he says, especially women, he respects women.
(11:00):
You need to pay attention to Caesar Romero.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
I think that is so true and really wise of
your father to pick up on that that Caesar listened
to people. Yes, he asked you a question and he
listened to the answer because he was interested in other people.
And boy, I wish I wish we all had that
(11:25):
quality now that we could listen a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Now. When you were doing the research, did you get
any recordings with conversations and stuff, because I mean, everything
that you've got here the makings of a podcast or
a gigantic Netflix or Hulu special here.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Well, you know, we have talked about that this could be,
you know, kind of a limited series, and I'm really
exploring that idea of you know, as I moved forward
with the project. Yeah, I mean there's there's a lot
of material here. There's a lot uh that says a
(12:02):
lot about I mean what we call today intersectionality. Like
you're looking at somebody who was rich as a child,
then poor than did Okay, You're looking at somebody who
was Latino but didn't really identify as Latino, and yet
his four bears were, his grandfather was a national hero
(12:23):
in Cuba. You have all of these different intersections of
identity that you know that he never really thought about
at the time. But he was doing what we in
modern terms called code switching all the time.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
You're gonna think I'm a freak. I did not see
Latino in him when I was a kid. It was
Caesar Romero. I mean I I saw him and and
and and and that, and maybe that's the way I
am even today. When I see an actress or an actress,
it's like I see you for you. I don't I
don't know what your background is.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Well, you know, I think that that's true, and he
definitely made a career out of being able to do book. Yeah,
he could play the quote unquote exotic because that's how
people thought of, you know, foreigners. They loved the words
exotic and sworethy, and so he would play those guys.
But he also played a lot of characters who were
(13:21):
just guys. You know, they were Anglo guys who got
the girl or didn't get the girl, or did the
shootout or didn't do the shootout, or you know, killed
somebody or got killed. You know, all the different plotlines
of all the different genres that he played in, they're
really they absolutely go beyond things like ethnicity or any
(13:45):
kind of pigeonholing.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Did you have to get permission to write this book?
Because I mean everything seems to be owned by somebody
these days, and it's like, okay, I'm going to write
a book about Caesar Rameiro. Oh, well, we owned the
rights to Caesar Ramero. Oh I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
No, he doesn't have that kind of protection that the
Marilyn Monroe estate or the Elvis estate has at all.
And you know, he was a public figure, and the
First Amendment gives us the right to write about public figures.
But you know, this is very much a celebration of
(14:22):
his life, and you know, I'm not really interested in
tearing it apart or muck raking. You know, that just
doesn't interest me. What interest to me is like what
drove a person to their creative limits, to their creative
you know, extremes, what pushed them, what drove them, And
(14:47):
in Caesar's case, I think he just had a remarkable
run over so many decades, and he really earned all
of the acclaim that he got.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
I would love to record readers as they go through
this book, just to find out what kind of sounds
they make as they page through the book, because I
was sitting there and I caught myself going.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Huh oh really, oh, come on, what I mean?
Speaker 3 (15:11):
It's like this book actually creates conversation off the page
with yourself.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Well, you know, that's really how I like to write.
And from a technical standpoint, I write in present tense.
You know, I write like this is happening right now,
because that's how we tell stories to each other. We
don't say, you know, I went to a restaurant yesterday
we say, so I'm at this restaurant and this guy
(15:38):
comes up and wouldn't you know, you know, that's how
we talk, and you know that to me is part
of bringing people from the past, making them alive.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Oh my god, you just kind of put a chill
through my spine because you said in the past, and
yet but I seem today on TV. So as far
as I'm concerned, Caesar is still part of mine now.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
And he will live forever. I mean, if all the
other movies fade into dust, he will always be the joker.
And I think people will recognize that picture and that
laugh and that performance for as long as humanity lasts,
I think Caesar will last.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Now, what did you learn doing this project? Because the
more you dig into Caesar Romero more, the more you're
going to realize it he inspired other people to do
the same thing. Are you seeing the remnants of Caesar
Romero and other actors?
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Absolutely? I mean, you know, the funny thing I was
just thinking about this this morning is like, who what
career do I think he might have today? And I
was looking at somebody like Coleman Domingo, who plays so
many different characters, is very you know, out and proud
and married to a man. But he plays romantic characters
(16:57):
with women. He plays all kinds of roles, and I
like to think that Caesar would have kind of the
the versatility and the joy in his career that Coleman
Domingo has.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
All Right, before we even let you go, we got
to talk about that book cover. I've been waiting now
for the entire thing to talk to you about it,
because that book cover is priceless. And are you going
to be marketing that? Because I mean merch is merch
and that I really think that with your signature on
a poster with that book cover, oh god my oh
oh oh.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Well, you know, the artwork is from a French pop
artist grographic artist named Pure Macan, and I think she
did a beautiful job of bringing together kind of the
wild fantasy with the fun and the joy and the
entertainment value. I have been at my live events. I
(17:48):
have been handing out mugs and tote bags and t shirts. Now,
I don't know if we're she's going to ever go
you know, wider, but we'll have to see.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Wow, where can people go to find out more about you? Samuel?
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Because I love your passion and I love your storytelling
storytelling capability because you totally get the full division.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Well, I really really do enjoy this world. I'm at
Samuelgarzabernstein dot com.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
You can find me.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
I'm also doing the fourth season of an upcoming TV
show for Amazon called After Forever. I'll be the showrunner
and co executive producer, and that's coming in twenty twenty six.
I also have a book about Roddy McDowell coming out
in twenty six.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
See there's another mystery character right there, man, because so
many people have their own images of the man that's
in the monkey costume, but there's more to him than that.
He's a former child actor, dude.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
Oh, I mean, he was as big as Shirley Temple
in his moment, and he was kind of the face
of British war relief during World War Two, and he
was a huge star and also had this very very
long career where he was able to play all kinds
of different things. So it's you know, you've got Planet
of the Apes, and you've got Cleopatra, and you've got
(19:10):
Fright Night, but you also go all the way back
to How Green was My Valley, which won Best Picture
in nineteen forty one.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Wow, well I can't wait to talk to you about that.
So please come back to this show. The door is
always going to be open for you. Samuel, my pleasure.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Will you be brilliant today? Okay, thanks,
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